A vaccination tool every parent could use

Regular readers know that I lived in Chicago for three years in the late 1990s. Indeed, Chicago is probably my favorite city in the world, and my years there count as three of the happiest years of my life. I lived in a cool neighborhood near DePaul in Lincoln Park; never again in my life am I ever likely to live in a place with such a fine mixture of residential houses, businesses, restaurants, bars, and parks. Moreover, I still have family there, which, combined with my knowledge of the city, leads me to continue to feel a connection to the city. It’s that connection that guarantees that I remain interested in the goings-on in Chicago and is also part of the reason why the yearly descent of anti-vaccine quacks on the Chicago metro area for the Autism One quackfest annoys the crap out of me.

It’s also why I’m concerned to learn that there are a number of schools with vaccination rates that are low enough that they could serve as the incubators for outbreaks of infectious disease, as this story in Sunday’s Chicago Tribune by Trine Tsouderos, Deborah L. Shelton and Joseph Germuska, entitled Low vaccination rates in some schools raise outbreak risks reports:

Clusters of children without their required vaccinations in about 200 Illinois schools are raising the chances of school-based outbreaks of serious preventable diseases such as measles and whooping cough, a Tribune analysis of state data has found.

The Tribune found that the number of public and private schools with immunization rates below 90 percent — a protection level the state recommends in order to prevent epidemics — has grown dramatically in recent years for each vaccine.

For example, in 2003, 31 schools fell below 90 percent for measles vaccinations. Last year, 124 did. The number of schools below 90 percent for polio rose from 27 to 122 during the same period.

Some of these schools serve low-income students who arrive at school without proof that they are up-to-date on their immunizations, the Tribune found. Others are private schools serving middle-class and wealthy families who sometimes seek religious exemptions from vaccination requirements.

The story provides a detailed, interactive map that allows parents to look up the vaccination rates at their children’s schools. It reminds me of the same sort of data presented in an earlier article that looked at vaccination rates in California schools and provided a map listing vaccination rates in schools in southern California, but the Tribune map is more user-friendly.

One aspect of public healht that anti-vaccine activists frequently distort is high overall vaccination uptake rates. For example, the article points out that the overall vaccination rate in Illinois is still around 98%. Sounds great, right? Well, yes, it is quite good. The problem is that the number of schools with vaccination rates below 90%–and even those below 60%–have rapidly increased in number since 2003. These clusters of unvaccinated children eat away at herd immunity and provide a nidus for infection to take hold and spread among the population. Since no vaccine is 100% effective, these pockets of unvaccinated children can be a danger even to the vaccinated. Even worse, children who can’t be vaccinated, either because they are too young or have a medical condition that doesn’t permit them to be vaccinated, depend upon herd immunity to protect them. When that herd immunity wanes, they are at risk:

But scientists and public health officials say clusters of unvaccinated people across the country are weakening the herd immunity made possible through vaccines and resurrecting preventable childhood diseases that can be deadly.

“Whenever the community risk goes up, everyone tends to get affected, including people who are vaccinated,” said Saad Omer, an Emory University scientist who researches unvaccinated clusters. “Even the best vaccines are not perfect.”

Clusters of unvaccinated people are, Omer said, like patches of dry grass that, with a single match, can start a wildfire that will burn not only dry material, but sometimes wet as well. The match could be a student who returns from a trip abroad with measles or a train commuter with whooping cough.

That’s actually not a bad metaphor. How many times have I seen anti-vaccine advocates asking pro-vaccine parents why they should be worried if their children are vaccinated? They’re protected, right? Well, yes, but not all of them. The measles vaccine in the MMR, for instance, is around 90% effective. That’s pretty darned good as medical interventions go, but that means that around 10% of children vaccinated against measles will fail to develop adequate immunity to prevent infection.

There appear to be two types of clusters of unvaccinated children. One kind is due to poverty and a highly mobile population, where children show up at achool unvaccinated or without records of having been vaccinated. These children don’t have good access to medical care, and as a result many never receive recommended vaccinations. Many also don’t speak English very well, if at all, and many have parents who can’t read.

The next category have no such socioeconomic problems. These are schools where there are large numbers of parents seeking religious exemptions:

Clusters of unvaccinated students with religious exemptions are more common in private schools, the Tribune found, and such exemptions are rising. For example, religious exemptions for the measles shot grew from about 3,400 in 2000 to about 9,500 last year.

The increase reflects growing unease among some parents — mostly affluent, according to some surveys — about the safety of vaccinations, even though vaccines rarely cause serious complications and the notion that they can cause autism has been scientifically discredited.

That’s what I love about Trine Tsouderos. She doesn’t mince words. It’s quite true that the myth that vaccines cause autism has been scientifically discredited again and again and again and again. Unfortunately, it doesn’t die. It’s like a zombie in a monster flick; just when you think it’s finally been killed for good, a hand reaches out of the dirt of the grave to grab the ankle of children and infect them with measles. It’s all due to what Dr. E. M. Fine appropriate calls a “brutal, ugly logic”:

Strong herd immunity can protect infants and other vulnerable members of society from dangerous diseases, but achieving it requires people to think alike, and they don’t.

“Individuals, if they look at the world selfishly, will say: ‘I don’t want a needle to be stuck into my kid, but I want everyone else to be vaccinated,'” said Dr. Paul E.M. Fine, a community immunity expert and professor of communicable disease epidemiology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. “There is a brutal, ugly logic there.”

Which basically describes anti-vaccine groups like the NVIC and Generation Rescue perfectly.

In the end, the Chicago Tribune has done its readers and the citizens of the State of Illinois a great service by producing this interactive map. The anti-vaccine movement demands “informed consent” and to be given more information. In this case, I agree, although I doubt this is the kind of information that they want us to have. However, if I were a parent, I would certainly want to know the vaccination rate at any school where I was going to send my child. This is exactly the sort of information that should be available for every city, every county, and every state.

Comments

  1. #1 Th1Th2
    June 25, 2011

    From what I remember reading, the chickenpox vaccine can end up causing shingles, but less often than the wild type virus, and of a lesser severity.

    Well, it should if not there’s always a shingles vaccine for you shingles-loving people. Nasty.

    How fortunate are the unvaccinated

  2. #2 lilady
    June 25, 2011

    @ Ender: Obviously you haven’t read the link that Chris provided about the youngster who died from Chelation as “treatment for autism”. You “surely” understand don’t you that:

    Chelation is indicated ONLY for heavy metal (arsenic, lead, mercury) toxicity and occasionally for iron overload for persons who have specific blood disorders.

    Chelation has been used by Alternative Medicine practitioners for such bogus diagnoses as “chronic” Lyme disease and by DAN doctors to treat autism. At a minimum, chelation used by the scamming doctors only remove cash from the pockets of their patients; very often the patient “pays” the ultimate price…death…which is what happened to this little boy.

    The DAN doctor used the wrong chelation agent (for the wrong diagnosis) on the little boy.

    The DAN doctor directed an untrained and unqualified person to administer the wrong chelation agent via IV Push.

    The wrong chelation agent and the “IV pushed bolus dose” by an untrained and unqualified person is what stopped this little boy’s heart and killed him. Of course the DAN doctor didn’t mean to kill him, but the little boy is dead…a victim of this DAN doctor.

    BTW, DAN doctors are still in business, providing unproven, often downright dangerous “treatments” for innocent little kids who have autism.

  3. #3 Agashem
    June 25, 2011

    Can’t let id1-id2 have the last word. And to Jen, thanks for once again proving why i was glad my autistic daughter didn’t have you as an educational assistant.

  4. #4 lilady
    June 25, 2011

    @ Agasham: Thingy is an uneducated nasty troll. He/she/it is totally clueless about disease, vaccine preventable diseases, immunology, epidemiology of diseases and even junior high or high school basic biology or chemistry.

    I hardly ever engaged Thingy because it is an exercise in futility. Others engage Thingy and have fun with the troll, because of the crazy postings elicited by the Thing.

  5. #5 Antaeus Feldspar
    June 25, 2011

    You know, I’m not happy with P.Z. Myers et al. treating my religion as a symptom of sloppy and disordered thinking, a useless holdover from primitive protohominid mentality.

    But if I wanted to discuss it, I’d go to some other blog where it’s on-topic.

  6. #6 Chris
    June 25, 2011

    Ender, your petty differences are still off topic. You played strawman by rephrasing my comments. That is idiotic and silly.

    Personally the petty stuff with those biologists bore me. I am so indifferent to them that I really don’t plan on going to Dr. Dawson’s talk at TAM 9. Though I will go see Dr. Myers’ talk on aliens, because that is a much cooler subject (I attended to a fascinating talk he gave on eyes).

    How you managed to equate engineers and medical doctors going way outside their field of expertise that endangers children to a petty argument is beyond the pale. If you have anything to say about vaccines, the return of killer diseases, quackery that endangers children and medical misconduct, please share. Otherwise take your silly argument somewhere else, because it is boring, stupid, silly, petty and completely off topic.

    lidady:

    The DAN doctor used the wrong chelation agent (for the wrong diagnosis) on the little boy.

    Actually it was not the “wrong” chelation agent, that was an excuse used after the fact. Kerry only ever stocked that form of EDTA. That is what their little toxicology club put into their pseudo-journals.

    Also, Kerry is not the only culprit. It also includes Andy Cutler, Phd in chemical engineering, who helped create this hysteria over mercury, starting with dental fillings (where Boyd Haley also started). Then he branched out with a “Mercury-Autism” yahoo group, the little boy’s mother joined that, and it convinced her son was toxic.

    Another way the Mercury Malicia tried to make excuses was to claim the little boy had lead poisoning. Well, if that was true he would have been treated by the NHS in the UK, where they lived. He would not have been sent overseas for his eventual execution for the unspeakable crime of autism.

    I shouldn’t forget the guys with business degrees who try to play scientist. The only papers Jen can come up with that criticize the large epidemiological studies are written by folks like Blaxill and Handley. Neither of whom have probably taken any science past the one they needed in college, and no math beyond basic business calculus (which is the mathematical equivalent to the “Rocks for Jocks” geology class).

  7. #7 lilady
    June 25, 2011

    @ Chris: I read the Disciplinary action against Dr. Kerry and the review of Dr. Kerry’s notes on the patient and the doctor’s medical notes clearly stated that the child had autism and in addition had a “high aluminum” level in his body…”possibly” to give the DAN doctor “cover” for treating the boy for aluminum toxicity…not autism.

    The child was treated with Endrate a chelating agent ONLY indicated for emergency treatment (in a hospital setting) for dangerous hypercalcemic states or digitalis toxicity…never as a chelating agent for heavy metal toxicity.

    There is another chelating agent (a combination of Endrate with added calcium) that is used for heavy metal (lead, mercury, arsenic) toxicity and this was not used by Dr. Kerry, according to the Disciplinary Action against Dr. Kerry that I located on the Quackwatch website.

    Use of Endrate, outside of a hospital setting, for the wrong reason will result in hypocalcemic states…which probably caused the child’s heart to go into dangerous arrhythmia and then cardiac arrest.

    Yes Chris, this criminally negligent doctor who caused the child’s painful, unnecessary death received a “slap on the wrist”…he is still practicing as a DAN doctor.

    Ender, your postings make no sense and add nothing to the discussion of vaccines and the junk science behind the anti-vax movement.

  8. #8 Chris
    June 25, 2011

    lilady:

    There is another chelating agent (a combination of Endrate with added calcium)

    I know. Except Kerry never used it, nor did he ever have it in stock. Do a search of this blog and its predecessor on the discussions of why he only used the one without calcium.

  9. #9 lilady
    June 25, 2011

    @ Chris: So…we are in agreement then…that he never had the Endrate with calcium in stock?

    The little guy NEVER had a chance to survive the chelation and (might have) had a chance to survive if the doctor used Endrate with Calcium. I view this as a further indictment of the doctor’s gross incompetence in addition to his obvious medical negligence that doomed the child to a painful death.

    When you undergo kidney dialysis or donate blood platelets, you may have a loss of electrolytes, including calcium. The apheresis procedure for platelet donation is a rather prolonged procedure (3 hours) where veins in both arms (antecubital area) are accessed for drawing off the donor’s blood and for returning donor’s blood after it is centrifuged. An anti-clotting agent is added, which may bind up the calcium in the blood returned to the donor. Donors are intently monitored by physicians and nurses for early signs of calcium depletion (mild tetany) marked by tingling of fingers and face…chewable calcium tablets are giving to patients to avoid hypocalcemia. (Been there, done that and chomped on many of these calcium tablets.)

  10. #10 lilady
    June 25, 2011

    ATTENTION: This is important guys. I have just posted…got it through moderation too…on a website for a local newspaper that is very influential on Long Island, New York.

    It seems that Anne Dachel, spokesperson for Age of Autism is posting repeatedly on behalf of the rag. Well, lilady has thrown down the gauntlet, named names, called them out for their yellow journalism and provided a lot of “push back” to Dachel and her fellow travelers.

    I need some help here guys…please look at the article and consider posting; site is available at:

    A Look Inside the Immunization Dilemma-Long Island Press

    P.S. I also “plugged” Science Based Medicine

  11. #11 Ender
    June 25, 2011

    @lilady – I understand all about Chelation. What does that have to do with people speaking outside their area of expertise? Except that it was a result of that one particular example.

    @Antaeus – You’re worried about the tail end of a days old post staying on topic?

    @Chris – “Ender, your petty differences are still off topic. You played strawman by rephrasing my comments. That is idiotic and silly.

    It’s not a strawman – it was my own comment, not a description of your position. I just noted that the same could be said for them. You don’t like the comparison, even though it’s apt, so you’re bringing up all sorts of unrelated complaints that don’t change a thing.

    “How you managed to equate…”

    This is your own opinion, and an actual strawman. I said nothing about the two situations being equivalent, I just noted that they also venture outside their area of expertise. And that’s a bad thing.

    This seems to be the root of your misunderstanding. You’re getting all worked up about how much worse the results were, – which would make sense, if I was saying they had led to equivalent results as you seem to believe. But I didn’t.

    @lilady “Ender, your postings make no sense and add nothing to the discussion of vaccines and the junk science behind the anti-vax movement.”

    If you think my comments make no sense you’re either being hyerbolic or are too stupid to post.
    If you can see the note asking people to only discuss vaccines and junk science then you have a point; otherwise you’re just reaching for reasons why pointing out an entirely correct similarity is somehow “wrong”, though the similarity clearly exists.

  12. #12 Chris
    June 25, 2011

    Ender, get a clue and stop troll type behavior.

  13. #13 lilady
    June 25, 2011

    Ender: Huh??? your comments still do not make any sense and they are very distracting and totally off-point for the subject of this particular blog about vaccinations.

    Take Chris’ good advice, shape up, stay on point…or deal with the label of “troll”.

  14. #14 Gillion
    June 26, 2011

    are you getting better now? Pei Pa Koa (http://www.geocities.jp/ninjiom_hong_kong/index_e.htm ) is one of the few Chinese untreated cough remedies that have been scientifically studied. it’s something like herb plus honey, and it’s sweet, thick and black in color. If you have a cough, look for it! It used to be one of my favourite untreated cough remedies.
    if your cough persists, seek professional help such as traditional Chinese medicine physicians – I have had very excellent experiences with them.

  15. #15 adelady
    June 26, 2011

    “How fortunate are the unvaccinated”

    And how unfortunate the poor overworked spouse (me) caring for the not quite 50 year old unvaccinated sufferer of chicken pox. Contracted from our unvaccinated children (this was 20ish years ago) who contracted it at a holiday camp.

    The misery the poor man went through – blisters inside ears, mouth, nose as well as piled up like boils on all visible skin surfaces – was awful. Delirious with fever for a couple of hours during a couple of nights, I only just avoided calling an ambulance. And that was only because I was already in the habit of night-long icepacks, sponge baths and all the rest of it from dealing with the children. His previously smooth, fine, unmarked skin still carries the scars.

    And all because neither he nor the children (nor any of their friends) were vaccinated.

  16. #16 Venna
    June 26, 2011

    @ lilady #211
    I read the article. Is it wrong that I had to take a moment before I could even think about commenting? It really made me angry, the innuendos were ridiculous. Anyway, I did comment, currently awaiting moderation. It’s long, which seems to be the only way I can do anything unfortunately so probably most people won’t even read it. I had a lot to say and I’m not sure how to make a condensed version of it, hehe. Anyway, I got your back!

  17. #17 lilady
    June 26, 2011

    @ Venna: Yes, I read it and thanks for your support…so that it isn’t Anne Dachel and Age of Autism all over again. They were commenting at Age of Autism how they could make inroads with this article in NYS. My 2nd posting stayed in moderation for hours…At 1 AM I sent them a “bitch” note, “why am I in “moderation” since 7 PM…is it only Dachel’s forum, etc.” I checked past 2 AM still being “moderated” and then this AM, I am posted and I saw your superb posting.

    It’s nice to have a professional perspective (public health nurse) and even nicer to have your’s as a mom of an unvaccinated child who showed early signs of autism and of course your experiences with Age of Autism were PRICELESS!!

    Anyone else want to join the fray?

  18. #18 Denice Walter
    June 26, 2011

    @ lilady: I commented as “DW”- I tried to appeal to reason-wonder what I’ll be called? I have a few guesses.

    As people who have studied medicine, education, or psychology, we have to remember that our perspective is based on reviewing data- over years- while most of the opposition doesn’t have that training: they view their own children emotionally through their own exhaustion and disappointment. It’s really hard to bridge that divide.

    How can we discuss the horrible so-called studies they quote as if they were Holy Writ? They are acceptable to them because they don’t understand how research is done and because they fulfill their expectations regardless of the authors’ inexpertise.

    Our task may appear insurmountable because we’ll never convince the most vocal adamant believers *but* the slient fence-sitters can compare and contrast the arguments. We have a good shot.

  19. #19 lilady
    June 26, 2011

    @ Denice Walter: I JUST KNEW “DW” WAS YOUR POSTING! BRAVA!

    Well we all did a commendable job. I take pride that I’m now labeled by one of Dachel’s trolls as practicing Western Medicine!! They cannot tag me with being in on the conspiracy and not knowing my science. Venna’s posting as the mom of a child with autism was a gem…no conspiracy there, either.

    There are some more great postings from others on the site so it is not all one-sided.

    I am debating if I should post a 3rd time….hmmm….oh yeah, I’ve made up my mind. I am going to visit “my other son” at his group home shortly, but I’m going back to the site this afternoon.

  20. #20 novalox
    June 26, 2011

    @lilady

    I just love all the innuendo and insults that the trolls at the website have thrown at you. Seems to me that you have struck a nerve with some of them.

  21. #21 Venna
    June 26, 2011

    @lilady

    You go girl! I can’t post or read anymore, it’s just too irritating (to be mild) frustrating, aggravating? I’m not sure which one is appropriate. The comments are RIDDLED with inaccuracies and nonsense that is taken at face value and assumed correct and factual. I could rip each comment apart, but I don’t have the time or the energy necessary to do it. It really irks me these people that believe fairy tales spun into ‘fact’ without even researching. They just spew what the anti-vax websites have told them and then claim they know what they are talking about. Grr!

  22. #22 Chemmomo
    June 26, 2011

    @Venna, Lilady, and DW re Long Island Press – Brava all of you! I’m not sure what disturbs me more – the article itself, or the fact that so many commenters are calling it “balanced.”

  23. #23 lilady
    June 26, 2011

    So, how about it…novalox and Chemmomo…you can’t let the three “girls” do all the heavy lifting on that site. Just a short posting will do lots to counteract Dachel’s trolls. J.B. must be having a fit.

    (hint) You might want to mention RI or Science Based Medicine sites, or the web pages on Casewatch for the actual Medical Board opinions for Dr. Roy Kerry for the chelation death of a five year old…or the more recent Mark Geier-Maryland Licensing Board suspension for chemically castrating kids with autism.

    Thanks for the compliments…they mean a lot coming from you guys.

  24. #24 Politicalguineapig
    June 26, 2011

    Cath: thanks for the info, but I won’t be able to use the vax. I’m nowhere near fifty, despite my old fashioned real-life name.

  25. #25 Venna
    June 26, 2011

    Twyla = the definition of a broken record. Everywhere she posts she always says the same thing, posts the same info, web links etc. Nothing she says is new. And even when you rip her ‘information’ to shreds, she continued to spread it ass if it’s gospel. She’s one of those who has tried to tell me my son must be vaccine injured otherwise he wouldn’t have autism.

    I find it really odd that lilady has been attacked personally, but nobody has said anything to me. I’m feeling a little left out now, LOL!

  26. #26 augustine
    June 26, 2011

    Ender,

    In the end, the science based medicine bloggers eat their own. I told you, “you were at the bottom of the heirarchy”.

    Venna, you’re on shaky ground. When you swim with piranhas you risk getting eatin’ in the frenzy yourself. You’re sloppy. Better make sure you don’t bleed.

  27. #27 novalox
    June 26, 2011

    @lilady

    Sorry I couldn’t get to your post today. Busy today. I did put up a post on the site you mentioned, but given the difficulties in moderation there, I don’t know if it will get out of moderation.

    @Venna

    I noticed that noone on that post had actually said anything against you, perhaps because of your experiences there, and they cannot say anything against you because of it.

    But it looks like you got the attention of the resident hypocrite “christian” troll here.

  28. #28 Chemmomo
    June 26, 2011

    lilady, I’ve thought about commenting (for over 24 hrs now), but the article itself make me incoherently angry. Plus I now live on the opposite side of the county. But the “incoherent” part of my anger is the bigger part of the problem.

  29. #29 augustine
    June 26, 2011

    Verra

    I find it really odd that lilady has been attacked personally, but nobody has said anything to me. I’m feeling a little left out now, LOL!

    You are not on intellectual par with the other science blog regulars. They are only coddling you for now. Your non vaccinating vs. vaccinating story makes you an asset for them in an anecdotal way. Although your logical (un)awareness is overlooked by them for now,you’re still safe. It’s hypocritical of them, I know but it’s just a matter of time. You can say some stupid things (which you have) but they won’t attack/abandon you until it becomes indefensible of there stance. No matter how much science, logic, and skepticism you don’t know just say, “I love vaccines and anyone who opposes the mandatory use of all cdc recommended vaccines is evil” and you can “right the ship” no matter how ignorant you are.

    Even crazy ass David N.Andrews A.B.C.D.L.M.O.P. can do that.

    There! Does that make you feel better and not so left out?

  30. #30 Gray Falcon
    June 26, 2011

    Augustine, do you believe your words are appropriate for a mature adult?

  31. #31 augustine
    June 26, 2011

    Gray Falcon

    Augustine, do you believe your words are appropriate for a mature adult?

    Have you not seen the video of ZDoggMDrap? Does that seem like a mature adult doctor to you?

  32. #32 Gray Falcon
    June 26, 2011

    Augustine, do you believe your behavior is appropriate for an adult?

  33. #33 Venna
    June 26, 2011

    Augie, you’re only spouting out of jealousy. But I’m curious, what exactly have I said that’s stupid? Just humor me for a moment because you have let loose with some pretty moronic statements yourself, therefore what on Earth do you view as stupid?

  34. #34 lilady
    June 26, 2011

    Gee, just when we were missing the Ugh Troll it shows up again.

    In your absence Troll, we had some secrets votes:

    Which new intelligent poster do we want to welcome into our elite crowd?

    Results: Venna won (not “Verra”)

    Which long-term ignorant Ugh Troll do we want to throw off the island?

    Results: Augie won

  35. #35 augustine
    June 26, 2011

    you have let loose with some pretty moronic statements yourself

    Feel free to discourse. I am sad to say that you’ll be lacking.

  36. #36 augustine
    June 26, 2011

    In your absence Troll, we had some secrets votes:

    Oh, Lil old nurse lady from 1960, they never taught you about argumentum ad consentium did they?

    Since you’ve found a little virtual bond with some other little friends in the name of science, logic, skepticism, and anti-religion tell me something. What did they teach you in 1960 about sexual reassignment surgery? If one is sexually unambiguous, can they be trapped in the wrong body and need science based medicine to “reassign” them?

    Can one also be trapped in the wrong body and actually be a werewolf or kitty cat inside? What does your pink book say about it?

    Your liberal rocket scientist (not a medical doctor) friend is having a hard time with this science based charge.

  37. #37 JohnV
    June 26, 2011

    Whenever augustine attempts to throw around logical fallacies I laugh so hard I nearly shit my pants.

    Also, opposing vaccines is only evil (as opposed to stupid and ignorant) if you’re like Sid Offit or Dr. Gordon who either directly or indirectly link their use to allowing undesirables the chance to live.

    Even the death worshipping malthusians like Jen aren’t evil. Oh wait, maybe that is evil, too.

    Ok so evil = eugenics or death worshipping malthusian, while stupid = the rest of you.

  38. #38 augustine
    June 26, 2011

    John V, is Venna logically sound? You may want to rethink that.

  39. #39 Chemmomo
    June 26, 2011

    augustine,

    you have let loose with some pretty moronic statements yourself

    Feel free to discourse. I am sad to say that you’ll be lacking.

    How about:

    You are not on intellectual par with the other science blog regulars.

    In my book, that’s a moronic statement. Maybe, on the other hand, it’s a pathetic attempt at an insult. Wait a mintute: that’s still “moronic.”

    I only had to go 6 posts back. Feel free to discourse. Whatever it is that you mean by that.

  40. #40 augustine
    June 26, 2011

    No answer, chemomom. Exactly.

  41. #41 Chemmomo
    June 26, 2011

    augustine, so by stating

    No answer, chemomom. Exactly.

    you’re admitting your insult to Venna is “moronic”?

  42. #42 augustine
    June 26, 2011

    Gray Falcon

    Augustine, do you believe your words are appropriate for a mature adult?

    Augustine has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent’s posterior about his miscellaneous verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few will.

  43. #43 Chemmomo
    June 26, 2011

    augustine, dude – that’s plagiarism.

  44. #44 Venna
    June 26, 2011

    Augie,

    For starters, your total lack of the ability to spell simple words just screams moron. Also you seem to have a very low level of reading comprehension and try to say someone said one thing when they really said something entirely different. Any time someone posts a statement you aren’t able to argue against (which is quite often actually) you result to defamation of character in a very crude sense, resorting to junior high antics in a moronic attempt, I can only assume, to make them cry. Sorry, but most of us have grown up and beyond the rules of play ground engagement. No more of this “my dad can beat up your dad stuff” you’re on your own. You have been weighed, you have been measured and you have been found wanting. Welcome to adulthood, may God have mercy on your soul!

  45. #45 liady
    June 27, 2011

    Damn, I had a hard time posting for the third time on that site…my old laptop is in the computer hospital…and this newer notepad is a bit more difficult to manage.

    Three-quarter of the way through my posting (it happened five or six times) the posting went pfft. I enlisted the help of hubby who is a (relative) genius compared to my computer skills and he showed me how to type the posting in a word document then cut and paste. Yup…it’s on the site awaiting “moderation”

    I hope it gets through moderation as I so want to be prominently mentioned on the Dachel-J.B. “Fecal Roster”.

  46. #46 augustine
    June 27, 2011

    Chemomom

    augustine, dude – that’s plagiarism.

    Let me fix that for you, chemical lover.

    Augustine, like ORAC,”has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent’s posterior about his miscellaneous verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few will.”

  47. #47 augustine
    June 27, 2011

    Welcome to adulthood, may God have mercy on your soul!

    There is no god here, verra. Just ask around.

  48. #48 Venna
    June 27, 2011

    @augie

    The name is veNNa, not veRRa. Are you doing that are purpose in some insane and moronic attempt to be funny? This is obviously not the place to discuss religion or spirituality, just as this isn’t the place to discuss politics. Therefore, in this particular sense, you are correct, there is no god here, and there shouldn’t be. We aren’t talking about faith, we are talking about science and medicine which are based on fact, not faith. Therefore, nothing wrong with that.

  49. #49 lilady
    June 27, 2011

    Ugh Troll, upset that the secret ballot you won, demonstrates how utterly boring you’ve become? Tough..

    Let me state it in other words. I may be a senior citizen, but I have an education, I am a licensed clinician and in my dotage you would have to die and be re-incarnated to ever get to my level of intelligence.

    I worked damned hard to support my (non-imaginary)children and to educate my daughter and to provide for a leisurely retirement. Tell us about your un-immunized imaginary children, your imaginary sex life…as if, your education and your gainful employment. Also tell us about the many times you left your crypt and helped a fellow human being…or does your dole money not allow for that.

    We are so anxious to hear from you about God and the bible…but you have “conveniently” forgotten the passages about charity and kindness. I bet your pastor and fellow parishioners have banned you from the church…too much of a sanctimonious hypocritical Christian.

    Crawl back to your crypt now….you’re boring us.

  50. #50 Chemmomo
    June 27, 2011

    augustine

    Let me fix that for you, chemical lover

    Try living without them.

  51. #51 novalox
    June 27, 2011

    @Chemmomo

    Obviously, augie hasn’t had much of a science education, based on that statement and many others moronic statements of his.

    @lilady

    That’s augie “christian” love showing.

  52. #52 David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E.
    June 27, 2011

    Augie farted: “Even crazy ass David N.Andrews A.B.C.D.L.M.O.P. can do that.”

    Let’s give lil’ augie some qualifications, eh? Let’s say this:

    Augustinus Imbecilis BFA, MFN, DipShit.

    Just so this non-educated waste of what should have been a good wank doesn’t feel so left out amongst those of us who actually have proper qualifications. You know… those of us who actually went through our schooling and our university education. Because we all know that augie’s parents were to mean/stupid/high-as-kites to send him to a proper school to learn things that any reasonable person would get to know.

    Gray Falcon: “Augustine, do you believe your words are appropriate for a mature adult?”

    Gray Falcon: “Augustine, do you believe your words are appropriate for an adult?”

    Two questions that augie cannot possibly answer since he has no clue what is or isn’t appropriate for anybody.

    Augustine: “Augustine has an ego just big enough to delude himself that someone, somewhere might actually give a rodent’s posterior about his miscellaneous verbal meanderings, but just barely small enough to admit to himself that few will.”

    Chemmomo: “augustine, dude – that’s plagiarism.”

    Not just that, Chemmomo It’s also pretty strong evidence that augie cannot think something cool up for himself!

    Venna: “The name is veNNa, not veRRa. Are you doing that are purpose in some insane and moronic attempt to be funny?”

    I wouldn’t worry, Venna. He’s doing that for one reason and one reason only… he is, in Monty Python parlance, ‘an annoying little tit’. We’ve tried to explain to him, in many ways, that he’s in with the bog boys and girls here and has neither the verbal skills nor the cognitive skills he needs to be able to hold his own here. Of course, we throw him the occasional bone, but really we just laughat him until he gets too stupid and then we slap the wee knob-head down.

    Novalox: “Obviously, augie hasn’t had much of a science education, based on that statement and many others moronic statements of his.”

    Actually, he hasn’t had any sort of education, really. He’s ‘home-schooled’ (i. e., kept at home so he couldn’t mix with anybody else and thereby become influenced by the satanic world that surronded his crack-pot family home; as opposed to home-schooled, meaning given a high quality education in his home surroundings by parents who wanted him to learn about things being taught in schools in a more relaxed manner, and with more opportunity for honing any rational debating skills that might be developed). In a way, I kinda pity this poor moron, since he’s a product of his parents’ collective stupidity and irresponsibility. But – well – he has a choice as to how he behaves, and whether he decides to learn from people who know and understand far more than he does, eiks niin? So, maybe just a wee bit of pity (it being a rather nasty emotion, based largely on schadenfreude and little on actual caring). And a lot of scorn. And example of his scientific understanding: “When you swim with piranhas you risk getting eatin’ in the frenzy yourself.”

    No clue about actual piranha feeding behaviour! Piranhas only occasionally attack humans, and even then mostly in places where fish are gutted and the entrails are disposed of into the water.

    “Feel free to discourse.”

    Correct me if I’m wrong here, people, but isn’t ‘discourse’ a noun and not a verb? Wouldn’t we usually say, for example, ‘feel free to engage in discourse’?* Surely an educated person would know that discourse is ‘engaged in’ and not just ‘done’.

    But, no. Augie’s no educated person at all.

    lilady: “Tell us about your un-immunized imaginary children, your imaginary sex life…as if, your imaginary education and your imaginary gainful employment.”

    FTFY. YW 😉

    Imaginary sex life? Wow… that has to be one of the best I’ve seen levied against this world champion masturbator! You just brought a grin to my face! Maybe that could be a second master’s ‘degree’ for him: M. Bate.

    I have things to do now. If augie gets out of hand, feel free to skelp his airse.

    * Or is that word going the same way as nouns like ‘access’ because pillocks like augie are trying to use nouns as intransitive verbs?

  53. #53 Ender
    June 27, 2011

    @Chris – Yes “to Troll” often described as “To be right when Chris disagrees with you, and refusing to pretend Chris isn’t wrong” – it’s a well known internet thing.

    @Lilady – Gasp! Lilady has labelled me? Not the label Troll? Whatever will I do? – If you think that the blog has an official topic and I am varying it then why not try and find that rule somewhere? – If being right about something, and then pointing out logically how I’m right while other people come up with irrelevant reasons why even if right I shouldn’t be right here counts as trolling, sign me right up. Idiot.

  54. #54 David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E.
    June 27, 2011

    imbecile alert @254.

    Could be that stoner idiot; can’t see it being augie. He’s not clever enough to come up with even that pathetic post.

  55. #55 David N. Andrews M. Ed., C. P. S. E.
    June 27, 2011

    254: @David:

    Did they fat pillock you again?

    How annoying for your fat and your brain.

    Posted by: Intransitive Verb Police | June 27, 2011 4:06 AM

    QFT. AAF.

    Interesting, though.

    There is the noun ‘pillock’, and there is indeed a verb ‘to pillock’ … at least, as far as certain colloquial grammars in the north of England and the south of Scotland take it. But ‘fat pillocking’ as a verb doesn’t actually exist. Which shows our intrepid, but very stupid, Intransitive Verb Police ‘Officer’ to be somewhat below par in thinking skills. Maybe too much weed and not enough of anything useful.

  56. #56 Sharon Astyk
    June 27, 2011

    I have a very low tolerance for reading the comments here ;-), but let me just add my experience to Venna’s, since I agree, the assumption that none of us are parents is obnoxious and stupid as hell. All my kids are vaccinated for CP, because when I was in high school, I lost a friend to CP. We were in our late teens and (long before the vaccine) he teased his much-younger sister about getting chicken pox – everyone thought he’d had it. Then, when he first got it, I teased him about getting a “baby” disease. Three days later he was hospitalized with pneumonia and two after that, he’d died – he had complicating health factors including asthma, but it was the chicken pox that killed him.

    My oldest son has autism – but he also had CP (before he was of age to get the vaccine), contracted from a friend. He never had the CP vaccine, or thimerosol-containing vaccines – and he showed symptoms of autism from birth. My other kids sure as hell got the CP vaccine and the rest of them – and are not autistic. Sure, this is anecdotal, but because I’m not an idiot, I can see the statistical benefits as well.

    Sharon

  57. #57 lilady
    June 27, 2011

    Well, after sending another “bitch” note to the Long Island Press, my posting is on the site. I covered the two cases (Dr. Kerry killing an autistic child during chelation and Dr. Geier’s chemical castration of children with autism).

    I also discussed “anecdotal” stories that I was accused of using, in great detail being that a public health clinician who refers people to reliable websites and discusses experiences garnered in public health is not providing “anecdotal” stories.

    Some “real” anecdotal information about me was provided as well as my credentials of having a very disabled child and advocating for him and others similarly situated stands in stark contrast to the whiners and complainers at AofA.

    “WhiteandNerdy” has joined the fray and sliced and diced the agenda of Dachel and her handlers at AofA…very effectively I might add.

  58. #58 Antaeus Feldspar
    June 27, 2011

    Isn’t it funny how Augie tries to dictate standards of conduct for others that he won’t even try to follow himself?  In a thread where J. B. Handley was being called an idiot (for proposing the bizarre conspiracy theory that “Sullivan” was Bonnie Offit) Augie claimed to believe that if you said anything insulting about anyone who had ever made any claims, anywhere, it was automatically an “ad hominem” argument aiming to discredit those claims by attacking the person.

    But obviously Augie doesn’t believe in that standard of conduct when it comes to his behavior!  I guess it shows what Augie really thinks of his anti-science stance:  He knows it can’t be defended in fair debate, so he tries never to let a debate stay fair.

  59. #59 Ender
    June 27, 2011

    “I also discussed “anecdotal” stories that I was accused of using, in great detail being that a public health clinician who refers people to reliable websites and discusses experiences garnered in public health is not providing “anecdotal” stories.”

    Of course they are. If it’s “experiences garnered in public health” then those experiences are anecdotes, the data is anecdata and any stories of individuals you tell will always be anecdotal. Words have definitions, you can’t just redefine them because you don’t think “anecdotal” is important enough description of your useful anecdata.

    Anecdotal =/= Wrong though.
    It’s just one the weakest forms of evidence, and can often point the way for more formal and rigorous research.

  60. #60 augustine
    June 27, 2011

    @augie

    The name is veNNa, not veRRa.

    @Verra

    The name is Augustine, not AugIE.

  61. #61 Gray Falcon
    June 27, 2011

    Augustine, if you’re not going to behave like an adult on this thread, please don’t expect to be treated like one.

  62. #62 lilady
    June 27, 2011

    @ Ender: I stand in awe of your word usage…no doubt acquired from visiting anti-vax sites and your trolling activities. From the Urban Dictionary:

    Anecdata: The use of multiple points of anecdotal data to confirm any stipulation, often used to “prove” pseudo-science claims of illnesses and treatments.

    (Example provided) Jenny McCarthy uses anecdata gathered from dozens of accounts to support her pseudo-science treatment for childhood autism.

    Anecdata is never acceptable in science-based medicine. The use of examples of decreasing rates of invasive HIB disease following licensing of a vaccine and the example of infant deaths due to pertussis disease is not anecdotal or anecdata, when a clinician/specialist in epidemiology who actually investigated the said cases, posts on a website.

  63. #63 Ender
    June 27, 2011

    @lilady – Why would I visit antivax websites? I don’t hang around in hives of scum and villainy that ban you for speaking the truth.

    p.s. Trolling is a deliberately inflammatory activity comparable to ‘winding people up’. If I was winding you up it would be a lot more amusing for me. As it is this is rather dull when you’re simply wrong and in were in our previous discussion reaching for irrelevant reasons because it was clear I was correct in my comparison.

    But truth matters, so I soldier on.

    Anecdata is absolutely accepted in medicine – what do you think Case reports are? (It ain’t SBM though). Check your hierarchy of evidence.

    ‘Decreasing rates of invasive HIB’ is not an anecdote and therefore not anecdotal whether it comes from a clinician or a plumber.

    All “experiences gathered in public health” are anecdotes though, and are anecdotal evidence. All “data gathered in public health” is of course data.

    Your repeated appeal to authority makes no difference. (Nice try though, it does sound all official and important. You are obviously a person that matters more than laypeople and hoi-polloi)
    Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal even if it comes from the most senior clinician/specialist in epidemiology in the world! Even if he gathered all the anecdotal evidence himself. Similarly actual data is actual data whether presented by a brickie or a streetsweeper.

  64. #64 Anton P. Nym
    June 27, 2011

    It is acceptable to illustrate the impact or meaning of the data via anecdote. (When dealing with the general public, this is even desirable as a way to personalise the matter.) However anecdotes shouldn’t be the data.

    As long as the differences are kept clear I don’t have a problem with anecdotes. It’s when they become anecdata that I take issue.

    — Steve

  65. #65 Chris
    June 27, 2011

    Ender:

    @Chris – Yes “to Troll” often described as “To be right when Chris disagrees with you, and refusing to pretend Chris isn’t wrong” – it’s a well known internet thing.

    Strawman.

    . Trolling is a deliberately inflammatory activity comparable to ‘winding people up’.

    Which is exactly what you did. Not stop playing your little game by bringing up a petty arguments surrounding a pair of opinionated biology professors. The changing of subject was classic troll type behavior, as is changing the wordings of my comments.

  66. #66 Composer99
    June 27, 2011

    But obviously Augie doesn’t believe in that standard of conduct when it comes to his behavior! I guess it shows what Augie really thinks of his anti-science stance: He knows it can’t be defended in fair debate, so he tries never to let a debate stay fair.

    QFT

  67. #67 augustine
    June 27, 2011

    Chemomom

    Try living without them.

    I do.

  68. #68 Venna
    June 27, 2011

    So it’s official! Augustine doesn’t breathe, bathe or eat. I gotta ask this question of him… What is your opinion of the use of dihydrogen monoxide?

  69. #69 augustine
    June 27, 2011

    VeNNa

    I gotta ask this question of him… What is your opinion of the use of dihydrogen monoxide?

    Is that Merck’s new FDA approved patented inhaler compound? I have no opinion. It is what it is. Why don’t you inhale it and then I’ll look at the data.

  70. #70 Chris
    June 27, 2011

    Dihyrdrogen Monoxide

    Yes, it is quite handy for colds and croup, it is also a very effective solvent. Remember we are laughing at you, not with you.

  71. #71 augustine
    June 27, 2011

    Chris

    Remember we are laughing at you, not with you.

    See, VeNNA, they are already turning on you. Laughing. You should tell them you were just trying to be witty with me.

  72. #72 Chris
    June 27, 2011

    And you can also get little bottles of dihydrogen monoxide with some sodium chloride mixed in as a nasal spray.

  73. #73 Chris
    June 27, 2011

    Little Augie, we are laughing at the person who does not know about dihydrogen monoxide. You. You are hysterically funny.

  74. #74 augustine
    June 27, 2011

    Little Augie, we are laughing at the person who does not know about dihydrogen monoxide. You.

    No I’m smirking at your amusement. Perhaps you would like to inhale it also. Make sure it coats the lungs thoroughly. 8 -8oz glasses is recommended.

  75. #75 Chris
    June 27, 2011

    It works better as steam from the shower or an open window during a rain storm. You really are an idiot, and I believe there are no chemicals nor electrical activity in the space between your ears. Especially with your pointless backtracking trying to forget the “Merck” statement.

    It is because of your silly idiocies that I don’t use a killfile.

  76. #76 augustine
    June 27, 2011

    Chris

    Especially with your pointless backtracking trying to forget the “Merck” statement.

    Your pretty thick in social skills for a rocket scientist pretending to be a medical expert. If you didn’t take yourself so seriously you could see that it was a joke.
    Some things science just can’t teach you.

  77. #77 Gray Falcon
    June 27, 2011

    If it was a joke, augustine, it wasn’t a funny one. If you didn’t know what “chemical” means, then it’s a pretty safe bet you wouldn’t know what “dihydrogen monoxide” means.

  78. #78 Venna
    June 27, 2011

    Augustine

    You said previously that you live without chemicals, and yet chemicals are what we are made up of, do most of what we do that is required to keep us alive and really chemicals are everywhere and you can’t get away from them, nor can you live without them so your statement was, once again, an example of how moronic you are. Everything that happens in your body is a chemical reaction. By saying you live without chemicals, you are showing just how much of a fool you really are. There is this thing that people like to do before they talk sometimes, it’s called thinking. You might want to try it from time to time. The results will amaze you!

  79. #79 lilady
    June 27, 2011

    Venna: Don’t even reply to the troll…once he’s be nailed as the all-time-ignorant-playacting-masquerading-as an intellectual goofus troll. Brava Venna for nailing him from the get-go.

    I’m so glad you won our secret ballot for newbie intelligent poster invited to join our elite group!

  80. #80 Venna
    June 27, 2011

    Aww, thanks lilady! I wasn’t replying really, just having a bit of sport with him. You know, similar to a cat playing with a ball of string. Although in this situation that might be slightly insulting to the string.

  81. #81 lilady
    June 27, 2011

    Don’t feel so bad that the anti-vax crowd at the Long Island Press website on the vaccine controversy hasn’t personally attacked you. This afternoon I got the blame for your “offense” of posting about the shoddy nasty treatment you received when you posted of Age of Autism. So…I naturally responded…and got a few more licks in about nasty remarks made to parents of children with autism.

    It took 6 hours for this posting to pass “moderation”…it just went up on the Long Island Press web page.

    There are a few more posters giving the Age of Autism their just desserts…I’m so enjoying it.

    Dachel wrote on the rag’s website that this was a golden opportunity to score “points”/get exposure with the readership of an influential local newspaper. I think I’ll send Dachel a gracious “thank you note” for alerting me to the article…after all she wanted people to post about the vaccine-autism link…and I did so and I provided Age of Autism with “exposure”.

  82. #82 Venna
    June 28, 2011

    Oh, I don’t feel bad. I guess they feel it would be ‘bad form’ to attack/insult someone who has a son with autism and has already been attacked by other autism parents from the anti-vax camp for simply not believing the same way they do. It’s easier to just ignore me and pretend I don’t exist. There will come a time, in short order I believe, when these anti-vax people will be silenced. Not that they won’t continue to scream and shout that they are correct in their assumptions, but that scientific fact will speak so loudly and clearly against their position that they will finally be seen as the crazy bunch of woo-ists they have always been. Research is so close to finding the real cure, and when they do find it, the anti-vaxers will be laughed at. It’s started already and they can feel it. These are the last desperate flailings of the drowning victim.

  83. #83 Cath the Canberra Cook
    June 28, 2011

    Politicalguineapig: don’t worry, the risk of shingles before 50 is relatively low. And according to wiki the risk is reduced if you eat your fruit. An apple a day keeps the herpes zoster away.

    Re chemical-free: Enjoy – http://fnochemicalfree.tumblr.com/

  84. #84 Genna
    June 29, 2011

    I am a long time reader but first time poster. I fear I have been sucked into the vortex of stupid created by such posters as Jen and augie and I will soon regret this.

    @Jen
    Firstly, those above are correct in saying there are studies of vaccinated vs unvaccinated children but further to Todd W. above who I am sure has dealt with this previously, there is absolutely no way that a study doing this now would be able to be designed. Why? you ask because simply it is UNETHICAL.

    A study like that would never get through but in the hypothetical chance there was one running the safety officer would cease it so quickly you would not even be able to complain. The benefit of vaccines is so great it would be unethical to continue any trial like this as deny the placebo group the vaccination.

    As for adjuvant trials. To change the adjuvant they would need to develop a whole new trial vaccine. Considering that the adjuvants are already proven to not cause harm at those amounts, no one would be wasting their time or money. Let me tell you, designing and manufacturing drugs is not just a case of chucking ingredients together and mixing.

  85. #85 Venna
    June 29, 2011

    Hopefully it isn’t ‘unethical’ for me to post this here, but facebook can only take me so far (since I don’t actually know a lot of people to begin with) and it hasn’t reached far enough to make a difference. Orac, if you feel this is inappropriate please feel free to moderate it out of posting, I have no complaints in that since this is your blog after all…

    My son and I are participating in the Oregon Walk Now For Autism Speaks walk in August. We have a team and need donations and team members to help with fund raising efforts. the web site is:
    http://www.walknowforautismspeaks.org/oregon
    and our team name is Igoenitchu (what my son says to let me know he wants to play, particularly he wants me to chase him. It’s how he says I’m gonna get you.) The funds raised will go toward funding autism research to find a cause and better treatments. Even if you can’t join us on walk day, you can still join the team and help raise funds and awareness. Since every little bit helps and since so many people are affected by autism, we need every little bit we can get. Thanks and I hope this doesn’t offend anyone and if it does, feel free to ignore it ;D.

  86. #86 lilady
    June 29, 2011

    Hi Venna: Yes, I want to donate specifically for your team…but dumb me doesn’t know how. I went to the site, located your “team”…but don’t see how I can do it with a credit card on the site.

    Can you provide us with the address of the Oregon Autism Speaks chapter so I will send a check…notating on the check that I am sponsoring team Igoenitchu

    Go Team Igoenitchu!!!

  87. #87 Venna
    June 30, 2011

    @lilady

    I’m glad you found the team at least. I think in order to be able to get to the donation page, you need to click on my name after selecting the team. It’s on the right hand side of the page. I didn’t want to give my real name here, but my initials are LL if that helps at all. There are only two people currently on my team, me and my sister and she has raised $25 (I’ve not been able to raise any yet, but there’s still time.) If you wish to send a check, there is a link to print out a form to mail in and it will be pre-filled with my team’s and my personal walker information. But just in case you still aren’t able to find it, here’s the mailing address:
    Autism Speaks, 5455 Wilshire Blvd, Ste 2250,
    Los Angeles, CA. 90036-4272
    My Supporter ID# is: 329976164
    The Event ID# is: 469772
    It also asked for my name, hmm. Try this link (it’s long, sorry)
    http://www.walknowforautismspeaks.org/faf/donorReg/donorPledge.asp?ievent=469772&lis=1&kntae469772=5C7450DD2E384501A55A1DB7F4CAFDA5&supId=329976164#

    That should take you to the donation page and if you wish to mail in your donation, there is a link to print out a donation form there too. I hope this makes it through the spam filters. Thank you so much for trying though!

  88. #88 lilady
    June 30, 2011

    Hi Venna and Good Morning: Sorry for the mix-up about the donation…the check has been sent. My fault really…I’m a real dodo when it comes to computer stuff…Chris can verify!!

    I sent the check and also enclosed a note for you for forwarding by Autism Speaks.

    Viktor looks like a sweet child, full of enthusiasm…and don’t they keep you young.

    I’m delighted that you are involved in Autism Speaks as I think you will have the opportunity to me other parents with children on the Spectrum…face to face…and very welcoming.

    I’ll be away for a 2 week vacation July 1-13th and I’ll be missing RI…so keep on posting. Go Team Igoenitchu !!!

    Affectionately, lilady

  89. #89 lilady
    June 30, 2011

    @ Genna: You raise some excellent points about adjuvants (aluminum) in vaccines. I suppose if the “anti-vaxers”, “vaccines caused my child’s autism” and the (latest) “we’re not against vaccines…we want them safer…or greener” cranks had their way, we should discard all vaccines that have aluminum adjuvants.

    Wanna play vaccine trivia? How many years have vaccines contained aluminum adjuvants?

    Find the answer here:

    NNii: Aluminum Adjuvants in Vaccines

    Under “Safety of Aluminum” Aluminum has been used safely as adjuvants in vaccines for more than 75 years.”

  90. #90 Venna
    June 30, 2011

    @ lilady

    I hope your vacation is fun and enjoyable! Thank you for sending in your donation, hopefully it gets counted for my team, but even if it isn’t, it’s still going toward real research and that’s what mattes.

    Viktor is a handful at times but very sweet and fun and full of love. He’s learning to spontaneously say I love you (I nuv e-you, as he pronounces it) which makes my heart leap and my eyes fill with tears every time I hear it. I don’t always have the energy necessary for keeping up with him. Hopefully I’ll be able to find a PCP soon (welfare medical coverage has its limitations unfortunately) and can go and get my knees checked and figure out what’s wrong with them, possibly have my blood sugar levels taken because diabetes runs in my family and I worry about it developing in me as I’ve already been shows to be insulin resistant. Basically see if there’s anything that can be done to help with my waning energy so I can keep up with Viktor better. Anyway, I need to go because Viktor wants me to build him a house with his blocks now.

  91. #91 Politicalguineapig
    June 30, 2011

    Cath: The funny thing is that I do eat a lot of fruit, and the suspected shingles thingie struck while I was still munching on fresh apples from October. Then again, my family is kind of a lightning rod for weird diseases.

  92. #92 lilady
    June 30, 2011

    @Politicalguineapig: Ah…to be “no where near fifty…once again…(sigh). Right you are about incidence of shingles being much higher beyond age 50. Just in case any “eldsters” are here, the “Shingles Vaccine” is recommended for ages 60 and above…and of course there is a VIS-Shingles Vaccine available on the web.

    I mentioned in a prior post (here?) that my son got chicken pox at age 19…we were able to lessen the attack, shorten the time of the disease and decrease itching by starting him on Acyclovir (brand name Zovirax) which is specifically targeted for any herpes outbreak. Information on Acyclovir is available at:

    PubMed Health Acyclovir

    Yes, when I worked at the health department we used to call “Shingles…the ‘gift’ that keeps on giving”.

  93. #93 Politicalguineapig
    July 11, 2011

    Lilady: Yeah, I got started on an anti-viral and steroid mix immediately after my diagnosis, which was a day after I first noticed the palsy. They worked wonders- I started noticing a difference after a week on them, and by two weeks things were fairly normal. (Except for the sound and cold sensitivity.) I’m still kinda worried about having another outbreak, but at least I won’t freak out as badly as I did the first time. Shingles ain’t fun, especially when it’s in the nerves.

    I’m glad your son’s all right; chicken pox can be very dangerous for a nineteen year old.

    I really don’t get all the people who won’t vaccinate or prefer alternative medicine. The parents who aren’t vaccinating are my age or a bit older. Didn’t they have parents who told them about suffering through the mumps or measles? And if they view an autistic child as ‘damaged,*’ how would they deal with a deaf or blind child?**

    *Not a view I subscribe to, thus the quote marks. I’m definitely not neurologically normal, and I know a lot of awesome people on the spectrum.And Venna, I’d donate if I had the money.

    **I do not view deafness or blindness as a bad thing either. But I think it’d be fairly traumatic for a child to lose their hearing or sight due to measles or mumps. And given the way the anti-vax parents present themselves on the ‘net, I find it hard to believe that they could provide any comfort to a suddenly disabled child.

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