It’s very clear that many antivaccinationists hate autistic children. The language they use to describe them makes that very clear. Such children are “damaged” (by vaccines, of course); the parents’ real children were “stolen” from them (by vaccines); they are “toxic” (from vaccines); the “light left their eyes” (due to vaccines). Autism is an “epidemic,” a “tsunami,” even a “holocaust,” with “denial” of that “holocaust” being equivalent to Holocaust denial. All of this likens autism to a horror on par with these calamities, and paints vaccines as the instrument of annihilation of antivaccinationists” “real” children. Of course, if vaccines were the instrument of destruction, then what does that make doctors who administer them, scientists who develop them, and bloggers who defend them?

In the mind of the antivaccinationist, obviously they all must be the equivalent of Nazis.

And, according to the editor of the antivaccine crank blog and propaganda repository Age of Autism, the journalists who report science properly fall into that category too. Quoting a news report on the recent CDC study that once again failed to find even a whisper of a hint of a correlation between vaccines and autism that pointed out, quite correctly, that science does not support the fevered dreams of antivaccinationists that vaccines cause autism, Dan Olmsted works himself into a high dudgeon:

The report goes on to quote the DeStefano/CDC study about how the antigens in vaccines don’t correlate with a risk for autism. Even in the self-protective annals of the CDC, this study is a stinker.

But putting that aside, the fact that Jalen fell off a developmental cliff TWO OR THREE DAYS after vaccination ought to make somebody in the editing room at that TV station, or some mainstream outlet somewhere, sit up and take notice.

This happens all the damn time, people! These kinds of parental accounts, combined with the $2 billion plus awarded in vaccine court, including to Hannah Poling; the known properties of vaccination, and the concommitant rise of mercury and vaccines with the autism epidemic, are far more than enough to start asking tough questions.

It’s not going to be very PC to say this, but one of the most vivid images from the end of World War II is the Allies making local villagers walk through a newly liberated concentration camp. The message was — how can you say you did not know?

When the history of the Age of Autism is written, I hope that part of mainstream journalism’s pennance is having to listen to parent after parent, hour after hour, describe just what Jami Nelson did. Healthy kids. Shots. And autism.

One can’t help but wonder whether if a child were hit by a car TWO OR THREE DAYS after vaccination Olmsted would blame it on vaccines. Maybe he would. In the meantime, note the truly horrible analogy that antivaccinationists are so fond of. Autism is like the Holocaust. Vaccines are the instruments that caused it. Pediatricians and scientists are like the Nazi doctors who oversaw much of the Holocaust. Those who deny it are the equivalent of neo-Nazis and Hitler apologists who deny the Holocaust. The comparison, if not made explicitly, is certainly implied. Those who “deny” that vaccines cause autism are the enemy. They are evil. They must be attacked.

Just like Hitler and the Nazis.

To Dan Olmsted, a former reporter turned vaccine/autism crank, that includes reporters. To him, reporters who don’t report on vaccines and autism the way that antivaccine loons like Dan Olmsted think they should (i.e., as a “tsunami,” “epidemic,” or “Holocaust”) are the equivalent of Nazi civilians living near concentration camps like Dachau who claimed not to know what was going on a short distance from where they lived.

Yes, Olmsted is that vile.

There is, however, a comment after his post to which one can only react by a massive facepalm:

For me, autism is a horrific example of the power of false beliefs: people are brainwashed to think a certain way and will not see, deny, reject, attack, any evidence contradicting their beliefs. Even if it is happening right under their nose, they won’t see it.

Against the greater than black hole density stupid projection, all the forces of reason and science themselves struggle in vain. Even the Hitler Zombie isn’t interested in this.


  1. #1 Chris,
    April 17, 2013

    Greg, what vaccine in the present American pediatric schedule causes more seizures than the disease it is meant for? Please provide the title, journal and date of the PubMed indexed study to support your answer.

  2. #2 Melissa G
    April 17, 2013

    Wow. That study on the site Greg posted– first of all, those percentages are out of a sample size of 450, so I am dubious as to its statistical power. Secondly, um… the whole POINT of that site, that study, and the quoting of those numbers is to encourage educational interventions for people with ASDs, specifically so they can live better lives than those statistics indicate!

    Honestly, context is everything! And *I’M* supposed to be one of the ones prone to black-and-white thinking??? ‘Cuz y’know, I’m Brain Damaged (in the World According to Greg).

  3. #3 Narad
    April 17, 2013

    Please see the UK’s National Autistic Society’s, Real Life Statistics, for how autistics are truly faring in society.

    OK. Unfortunately, your link seems not to actually provide it. I take it you mean this. Let’s compare the characterizations in what you supplied with those in the genuine item. All italics are my emphasis.

    According to a National Autistic Society survey of over 450 children and adults with autism,


    “This year the work has focused on two question-naire surveys. The first was sent to a sample of members of The National Autistic Society who have adult children with autism spectrum conditions. A total of 458 responses were received out of 1200 mailed….

    “The second survey was on a far smaller scale and was designed specifically for adults with autism spectrum conditions themselves…. There were 38 responses completed by the adults themselves or with help from their support worker or primary caregiver, generally a parent.”

    One may further note the severe selection bias. The survey was designed by NAS, reviewed by eight NAS members, and sent to NAS members. I am not seeing any reason for the exclusion of 8 of the 458 parental replies, but maybe it’s in there someplace.

    an astonishing 70% of adults with autism are unable to live independently.

    False: “70% of parents felt that their son or daughter would not be able to live independently without support – this applied across the range of the autism spectrum.” Those with Asperger syndrome, impressively, came in at 62%.

    Of these individuals, 49% live with family members, creating a huge financial burden on aging parents, and 32% livle [sic] in residential care facilities, which offer little or no privacy, autonomy, or stimulation.

    The final clause appears nowhere in the report, but leaving this aside, this is what the NAS reports. One thing is omitted: “Almost three-quarters (73%) of parents said that their adult child was happy where they lived. Only around half (54%) of the more able adults agreed with this.” One thus has a mismatch between the parental reporting and the much smaller sample in the second phase, which goes back to the surpising 62% figure given for Asperger diagnoses.

    Only 3% of adults with autism live fully independently.

    An odd paraphrase: “Only 3% of adults at the higher end of the autism spectrum are living fully independently, and a further 8% are living independently with some regular professional or family support.”

    In terms of employment, only 6% of adults hold paid, full-time jobs.

    This is an accurate summary of what is reported.

    Regarding mental health, over half of adults with autism have been diagnosed with depression some time in their adult life while 11% say they have suffered a “nervous breakdown.”

    This is not: “A third (32%) of parents reported that their son or daughter had experienced mental ill health. This rose to half (50%) of those whose son or daughter was not diagnosed until after the age of 30. Of those experiencing mental ill health 56% had suffered with depression, a further 11% a nervous breakdown or near nervous breakdown, and 8% felt suicidal or had attempted suicide.”

    And even though the majority of adults surveyed had participated in at least two autism interventions in childhood, 65% continue having difficulty making friends. Of teens surveyed, 74% stated that they had difficulty making friends. Of children under 13 years old, 31% participated in no social activities at all.

    False: “Two thirds (65%) of parents said that their sons and daughters have difficulties making friends. For those in their teens this was 74%.” These are yet more parental reports.

    Do your own homework next time rather than sloughing off a sloppily constructed second-hand source.

  4. #4 herr doktor bimler
    April 17, 2013

    how autistics are truly faring in society

    Greg is sticking to his “Autistic people are a drain on society’s resources, and would be better off dead anyway” line of provocation. Perhaps it is a homage to the original post.

  5. #5 Shay
    April 17, 2013

    If there’s one thing I’ve learned from this blog, it’s that the regular commenters can be counted on to actually read and analyze citations.

    Darn those elitist self-appointed scientists; why can’t they just take things on faith, like Greg?

  6. #6 Shay
    April 17, 2013

    Wanted to add, five’ll get you ten Greg completely ignores Narad and starts digging up another goalpost.

  7. #7 Lawrence
    April 17, 2013

    @Shay – I suspect that Greg may not rear his head again…..

  8. #8 Edith Prickly
    Continuing the Brave Sir Robin theme
    April 17, 2013

    Greg is packing it in and packing it up
    And sneaking away and buggering up
    And chickening out and pissing off home,
    Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge.

  9. #9 Melissa G
    April 17, 2013

    “Pissing off HOME”– thank you, I never could quite parse that line! Also, ROFLOL!

  10. #10 lilady
    April 17, 2013

    I’m still *waiting* for Greg to tell us who his autistic clients are that he refers to as “brain damaged”.

    He also defended AoA’s “moderation policy” and posed a question to Anne Dachel about that policy. Did he or did he not receive a reply from Dachel?

    Poor Greg, tried to be clever about the pro-vaccine pro-science operatives’ handbook…and failed miserably. Greg should be lurking here to pick up some cues from Elburto and Edith Prickly who are pros.

  11. #11 Greg
    April 17, 2013

    You guys are really funny! Anyway, here we go again….

    Looks like an ‘intellect’ professor is agreeing with me that autism might be brain damage after all:

    ‘When cells are exposed to classical forms of dangers such as a virus, infection or toxic environmental substance, a defence mechanism is activated,’ said the professor.

    ‘This results in changes to metabolism and gene expression (activity) and reduces the communication between neighbouring cells. Simply put, when cells stop talking to each other, children stop talking.’

    Read more:

    ‘virus, infection, or toxic environmental substance’? I wonder what they could have in mind? HHHMMMMM??

    How did they get the monkeys to come down with autism?HHMMMMM??

  12. #12 Shay
    April 17, 2013

    I was right, Lawrence. Hear the shovels?

  13. #13 Chris,
    April 17, 2013

    The Daily Mail, Greg? Since when are humans exactly like mice? And really, how is the vaccine worse than the wild virus?

    Again, Greg, please provide the title, journal and dates of the PubMed indexed papers showing a vaccine on the American pediatric schedule causes more seizures than the disease.

  14. #14 Greg
    April 17, 2013

    Lilady, no response from AoA on the censorship issue, but thought I would share the following opinions on the matter:

    “The nastiness extends to cyberstalking and bullying (lilady providing many examples- even a member of he own community has complained about this), hate campaigns, poll-crashing, faked letters (probably the one sent to Peter Hitchens) etc. AoA moderators do let them comment and usually they don’t stay long.”

    Posted by: jen | April 16, 2013 at 10:17 AM

    I understand where you’re coming from. You are right in wanting an honest flow of ideas and debate. But I really believe that, unfortunately, those people are dishonest and intentionally obstructive and inflammatory. Only knowing how to fling mud, they aren’t worth engaging. I am not a moderator of course, but it is my humble opinion that their nastiness has no place here.”

    Posted by: Linda | April 15, 2013 at 11:43 PM

  15. #15 Greg
    April 17, 2013

    Finally, a little while back I asked you guys if in your own personal view you think vaccines have absolutely nothing to do with autism. Most of you responded ‘no’. Did you misunderstand the question or are you agreeing that vaccines may be involved with autism?

  16. #16 lilady
    April 17, 2013

    @ Greg: I’m calling bullsh!t on your mice study. The researchers on that mice study never stated autism is “brain damage”

    About mice studies…here’s what Emily Willingham has to say about mice studies:

    “…If the study in question is about mice, never talk about how the results will lead to a therapy or a cure or write about the mice as though somehow, they are just tiny humans with tails. Mice have misled us before. They are only a way to model what might happen in a mammal sorta kinda related to us. They are not Us, otherwise we’d live in tiny, crowded places, having 10 children at once and ignoring them when they grow fur, and this autism thing wouldn’t be an issue…”

    About “jen”…she has libeled me repeatedly on AoA and on Respectful Insolence. She has cyberstalked me on RI and has resorted to sock puppets here on RI. Just another ignorant uneducated-in-basic science troll, who is a teacher’s aide.

    In short, Greg, you are full of yourself and full of it.

  17. #17 Greg
    April 17, 2013

    Anyway Guys,

    I really must finally bid you all adieu. This game has run it’s course. Truly, I really did enjoy the learning experience. I learned a lot not so much from what you said but from reading between the lines.


  18. #18 Alain
    April 17, 2013


    the daily mail article on mouse

    You dare compare the finding in that article to this:

    The minicolumns size of autism as well as a whole line of research in neuropathology defined by minicolumns size (some bigger, some smaller) accompanied by a blog post who give detail on a possible origin of the pathology (hint: it’s not vaccines, vaccines have never been implicated into brain minicolumns size).

    And here I am explaining in futility because Greg is just a F*cking Thickhead who will never understand that line of research if it hit Greg in the nose….sigh.


  19. #19 Alain
    April 17, 2013

    note to self: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    Never put more than 2 links in a comment.


  20. #20 JGC
    April 17, 2013

    Speaking only for myself, I believe there is no evidence to suggest a causal relationship exists between routine immunization and the development of autism spectrum disorders.

    Now, when can we expect you to provide some credible evidence suggesting that such a relationship does exist, or that the incidence of autism in otherwise matched vaccinated and unvaccinated populations is significantly different?

  21. #21 AdamG
    April 17, 2013

    I learned a lot not so much from what you said but from reading between the lines.

    Translation: “I didn’t bother to read or learn from any of the published articles cited here, but drew all of my conclusions from assumptions I made.”

    Actually, that’s a pretty decent mission statement for AoA in general.

  22. #22 lilady
    April 17, 2013

    “Anyways Greg”

    Still no replies from Anne Dachel and the moderation policy at AoA.

    Still no reply about your supposed employment working with autistic “clients”.

    Ta Ta Greg.

  23. #23 herr doktor bimler
    April 17, 2013

    The researchers on that mice study never stated autism is “brain damage”

    Heh. The Google tells me that Greg is copy-pasting from AoA, where Dachel in particular is quite enamored of Navriaux’s research. She has fastened limpet-like to the argument that because the research team successfully treated mice bred for a specific genetic defect, therefore autism has environmental rather than genetic causes.

  24. #24 Politicalguineapig
    April 17, 2013

    Daily Mail isn’t a reliable resource, douchehat. That’s like citing the Weekly World News. Heck, I don’t trust the local Fox affiliate to report the *weather* accurately, never mind any scientific research.

  25. #25 herr doktor bimler
    April 17, 2013

    That’s like citing the Weekly World News.
    The research is real enough, PGP; the Daily Fail lack the imagination to invent *everything* they report on.

    It strikes me as crap research because it relies on the concept of a “mouse model of autism”, i.e. mice deficient in the usual mouse capacities for social communication — but that’s another matter.

    Naviaux runs the “Mitochondrial and Metabolic Disease Center” — his funding depends on finding nails (diseases) to go with his hammer (mitochondrial dysfunction). “Autism Speaks” have given him a research grant, so he will research autism, despite the irrelevance of mouse models. A year ago he was reduced to studying “treat heart disease and diabetes with dark chocolate”, so this is a step up.

  26. #26 Melissa G
    April 17, 2013

    I learned a lot not so much from what you said but from reading between the lines.

    And too bad none of it was read for comprehension.

  27. #27 Militant Agnostic
    Up to my ass in muskeg live trapping Wolverines
    April 17, 2013

    The Merseyside Skeptiks quit deconstructing Daily Fail articles on mouse because it was becoming tiresome, although I never got tired of Marsh adding “in fooking mice” to Mike Halls comments on what the study actually showed.

  28. #28 Khani
    April 18, 2013

    #413 Since when are humans exactly like mice?

    I’d answer your question, but I have to chew up this bit of old rope to add to my nest. I’m about to give birth to 10 babies and I want them to have something softish to land on so I can wander away and get eaten by a predator with a clean conscience.

  29. #29 lilady
    April 18, 2013

    @ herr doktor bimler: Dachel notified her groupies about Naviaux mouse study:

    It gets better. After the *success* of the mouse study, the researchers are going to enlist autistic children to be part of a human trial:

    I am shocked, utterly shocked…that Greg would plagiarize and post a comment here as his own.

  30. #30 Julian Frost
    Gauteng East Rand
    April 18, 2013

    I really must finally bid you all adieu. This game has run it’s course. Truly, I really did enjoy the learning experience. I learned a lot not so much from what you said but from reading between the lines

    Translation: I’ve finally realised just how thoroughly the commenters here pwned me. They have shot down all of my half-witted arguments and taken me to task for labelling autistics as brain damaged. They have also demanded I give proof that autism is vaccine damage and I have been unable to find any. Finally, they haven’t been beaten by my constant goalpost shifting
    Does anyone else think Greg will be back?

  31. #31 lilady
    April 18, 2013

    @ Julian Frost: Love your translation.

    Does anyone else think Greg will be back?

    Not under that same name. He might try using a sock puppet and if we let him post of few of his fact-free inanities, we can use him as a chew toy.

  32. #32 Khani
    April 18, 2013


  33. #33 Lawrence
    April 18, 2013

    @Lilady – Greg followed the typical trajectory of an anti-vax troll…..

    1) “Hey, I’m just here to ask questions.”
    2) “Hey guys, that’s great, but here are more questions.”
    3) “Really guys, why do I have to provide evidence, I BELIEVE!”
    4) “Wow, you guys are mean!”
    5) “Bye Bye – I think you’re all Pharma Shills & I’ll never come back here again.”

    Which is actually a lot more polite that what usually happens…..

  34. #34 Todd W.
    April 18, 2013


    If you happen to not stick the flounce, you might want to know a bit more about “jen”. She has a habit of reading something at AoA, getting all worked up about it enough to come over here and regurgitate what she read, then go slinking away when people show her where the science is against her or where her logic, such as it is, fails. She’s also quite happy to sling insults at people, rather than address their arguments.

    Still waiting for your evidence that a) vaccines cause autism and b) that autism is brain damage. Oh, and word from the editors of AoA about censoring people.

  35. #35 Politicalguineapig
    April 18, 2013

    HDB: The research is real enough, PGP; the Daily Fail lack the imagination to invent *everything* they report on.
    We sure about that? Actually, according to law of probabilities, the Weekly world news should’ve come up with a few real stories, whereas the Mail’s reporters just report on whatever their proctologists dug out at the last appointment.

  36. #36 herr doktor bimler
    April 18, 2013

    Have just been skimming Naviaux’s paper in PLOS. The idea is

    (1) Damage fetal mice by exposing their mothers to a simulated viral attack — cytokine storm and all that. The resulting mice are damaged in numerous ways… their metabolic rates are wrong, their synapses are all kattywampus, their muscles don’t work properly… they are clumsier than control mice, and because clumsiness can feature in autism & AS, these are “autistic mice”. I am not making this up.

    2. A drug that modulates the purinergic channel of inter-cellular signalling reduces these symptoms, if administered after birth but *before the symptoms develop*. So it protects mice from the effects of a simulated maternal virus infection but once they have developed it’s too late. The drug also has no end of toxic side-effects.

    I have not attained Politicalguineapig’s level of cynicism and misanthropy, but I would not be surprised if DAN doctors are already prescribing the stuff as the new wonder autism cure.

  37. #37 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    April 18, 2013

    Finally, a little while back I asked you guys if in your own personal view you think vaccines have absolutely nothing to do with autism. Most of you responded ‘no’. Did you misunderstand the question or are you agreeing that vaccines may be involved with autism?

    Ah, wordplay. Did people mean, “no, I don’t think vaccines have absolutely nothing to do with autism” or “no, I think vaccines have absolutely nothing to do with autism.” Doubtless if most people had said “yes” he’d have been confused whether they meant “yes, I think vaccines have absolutely nothing to do with autism” or “yes, I don’t think vaccines have absolutely nothing to do with autism.”

    This is why I refuse to answer such questions with one word answers.

  38. #38 Politicalguineapig
    April 18, 2013

    HDB: mice deficient in the usual mouse capacities for social communication — but that’s another matter.

    How is the ‘usual’ capacity measured? And what are the mouse channels of communication?

  39. #39 Melissa G
    April 18, 2013

    HDB, so… Their research is COMPLETELY begging the question!!! AAAARGH! “We think autism is brain damage so we will brain-damage some mice and treat them, in order to prove this treatment works on autism to heal the brain damage!” Whaaaaaaaaaa?

  40. #40 herr doktor bimler
    April 18, 2013

    Their research is COMPLETELY begging the question!!! AAAARGH! “We think autism is brain damage so we will brain-damage some mice and treat them, in order to prove this treatment works on autism to heal the brain damage!”

    More charitably — “We are looking for funds to investigate mitochondrial disorders… and one speculative form of mitochondrial disorder involves the purinergic signalling channel getting out of whack… so let’s disrupt the purinergic channel in mice, and call it ‘autism’, thereby securing a research grant from Autism Speaks”.

  41. #41 herr doktor bimler
    April 18, 2013

    How is the ‘usual’ capacity measured? And what are the mouse channels of communication?

    Looking at the paper… “social preference” was measured.

    Here the test mouse can run around an enclosure containing two wire cages — “an unfamiliar mouse, age and sex matched, was placed under one of the wire cups and Lego blocks were placed under the other wire cup”.

    A socially-inept mouse is one that spends more time sniffing at the Lego blocks, although it could of course be a superintelligent mouse that is planning how to construct the blocks into a tower and escape from the enclosure.

  42. #42 Roger Kulp
    Thanking Big Pharma for preventing more regressions
    April 18, 2013

    #374 herr doktor bimler
    April 16, 2013
    autoimmune issues such as seizures
    I know it’s trolling and intended to be stupidly wrong, but I feel obliged to correct the claim that epilepsy is an autoimmune condition.

    Systemic and neurologic autoimmune disorders associated with seizures or epilepsy.

    Is Cerebral Palsy Autoimmune?

    Cerebral Palsy causes seizures

    Seizures and Autoimmune Encephalitis.

    Just the tip of the iceberg for autoimmune related seizures.

    I have these type of seizures that I lived with for most of my life until they were found in 2009.Since this article was published in 2003,they now know there is a wide spectrum of severity.

    Glad to see this thread is still active.I’ve had a lot of old medical problems come back,and have been too sick to follow a lot of these threads of late,but this post hit home.
    April 6, 2013
    @ Li Ditz: I’ve actually seen photos of children who were diagnosed with autism, who showed signs of autistic regression after their first birthdays. But, these babies were born in the 1950s and 1960s and actually had measles, mumps and rubella.

    You all probably know I was such a baby,and that I have proven cerebral folate deficiency syndrome,and am awaiting a full workup for suspected mitochondrial disease.I have said a lot of this before,but what the hell.

    I had my first regression at the age of six months,yes it is possible to regress that early,following my first bout of acute meningitis,with pulmonary complications,possibly pneumonia.My mother said I was in an iron lung.

    Now that I have treated my CFD,and can talk well,I would like nothing more than to address a large group of parents whose children have regressed after vaccination,as well as high functioning types who have never regressed,and talk about the benefits of autism.You both get a lot wrong.

    I would really like to know two things from every parent who says their child regressed after vaccines.Has your child regressed more than once?Three of my worst regressions were as an adult,two following acute infections,one in my forties,or episodes of organ failure of “unknown” causes in my twenties,that were probably due to mitochondrial disease.
    Disease not dysfunction.There are more and more genes being found now associated with mitochondrial disease that has autism as a feature.

    If the parent says the child has had more than one regression,I would ask them if the child has had a full metabolic and autoimmune workup,especially for “rare” genetic diseases.If not,why not?

    I know DAN! doctors get a bad rap,and usually they deserve it,but what a lot people do not realize is most doctors will not do any initial tests that point to metabolic or autoimmune problems on a child or adult with autism.They are the only ones.Unlike mainstream doctors,they will do any test a parent or patient asks.If you have any such problems you can do your homework,and request tests for all sorts of unusual metabolic or autoimmune disease,and then work your way up to a big research hospital like I have.But if all you know is vaccines,metals,and toxins,that’s all your child will be tested for.Garbage in garbage out.

    No less of a supporter of neurodiversity than Temple Grandin realizes there is a difference between regressive and nonregressive autism.Some posters here could take a lesson from this.

  43. #43 Melissa G
    April 18, 2013

    Wow– even the charitable interpretation is kinda rage-inducing. And… I am offended at their definition of social ineptitude in mice! Or perhaps I resemble it. Yeah, that’s more likely. (Those other mice are probably jerks and the Lego sniffers find interesting toys way better company!)

  44. #44 Khani
    April 19, 2013

    #441 But human beings are just like mice, remember?

    Are you saying everyone *doesn’t* sniff legos and pee to mark where they’ve been?

  45. #45 herr doktor bimler
    April 19, 2013

    Are you saying everyone *doesn’t* sniff legos and pee to mark where they’ve been?

    According to the restraining order — No.

  46. #46 Chemmomo
    April 19, 2013

    Chris beat me posting this link on the other thread, but I think it bears re-posting here:
    This is the death of a young – 25-year-old – man whose only health problem seems to having the measles.

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