Pharyngula

EXPELLED!

There is a rich, deep kind of irony that must be shared. I’m blogging this from the Apple store in the Mall of America, because I’m too amused to want to wait until I get back to my hotel room.

I went to attend a screening of the creationist propaganda movie, Expelled, a few minutes ago. Well, I tried … but I was Expelled! It was kind of weird — I was standing in line, hadn’t even gotten to the point where I had to sign in and show ID, and a policeman pulled me out of line and told me I could not go in. I asked why, of course, and he said that a producer of the film had specifically instructed him that I was not to be allowed to attend. The officer also told me that if I tried to go in, I would be arrested. I assured him that I wasn’t going to cause any trouble.

I went back to my family and talked with them for a while, and then the officer came back with a theater manager, and I was told that not only wasn’t I allowed in, but I had to leave the premises immediately. Like right that instant.

I complied.

I’m still laughing though. You don’t know how hilarious this is. Not only is it the extreme hypocrisy of being expelled from their Expelled movie, but there’s another layer of amusement. Deep, belly laugh funny. Yeah, I’d be rolling around on the floor right now, if I weren’t so dang dignified.

You see … well, have you ever heard of a sabot? It’s a kind of sleeve or lightweight carrier used to surround a piece of munition fired from a gun. It isn’t the actually load intended to strike the target, but may even be discarded as it leaves the barrel.

I’m a kind of sabot right now.

They singled me out and evicted me, but they didn’t notice my guest. They let him go in escorted by my wife and daughter. I guess they didn’t recognize him. My guest was …

Richard Dawkins.

He’s in the theater right now, watching their movie.

Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?

Comments

  1. #1 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    a policeman pulled me out of line and told me I could not go in. I asked why, of course, and he said that a producer of the film had specifically instructed him that I was not to be allowed to attend. The officer also told me that if I tried to go in, I would be arrested. I assured him that I wasn’t going to cause any trouble.

    WTF?

    a POLICEMAN?

    as in actual law enforcement, paid for by the city?

    If so, that’s the real story here, no offense to your being snubbed, PZ.

  2. #2 minusRusty
    March 20, 2008

    ROFL ROFL ROFL!!!!

    Absolutely Classic! I suppose you didn’t happen to capture it all on a video phone or somethin’?!? That would make wonderful YouTube!

    -Rusty

  3. #3 Beth B.
    March 20, 2008

    Yep, must concur with benjdm: that was a belly laugh right there. Also: spending the evening with Dawkins? That makes the whole thing at least half again as awesome.

  4. #4 Quidam
    March 20, 2008

    Should give you bragging rights over that Dawkins chap. “Oh Richard – who did they recognise trying to see eXpelled? The ‘famous’ Richard Dawkins or the instantly recognizable PZ? Huh Huh.”

  5. #5 Nick K
    March 20, 2008

    My wife is looking at me right now in wonderment. She is trying to figure out why I’m laughing so hard.
    …………..That …………
    …………..was ………….
    …………brilliant!

  6. #6 PZ Myers
    March 20, 2008

    I’m actually wondering how they knew it was me — I’m not that recognizable, and I was standing next to Richard Freaking Dawkins.

    Speaking of which, I should probably head back to the theater. If the creationists spot this post, they might be frantically calling the local organizers right now, telling the police to rush in and grab suspicious British looking characters from the audience.

  7. #7 cory
    March 20, 2008

    Ummm…good OATHS, I was supposed to type. Must be the two Hoegaardens I just had at dinner typing.

  8. #8 Cyde Weys
    March 20, 2008

    Not even letting someone who was in the movie attend the movie pretty much tells you all you need to know, doesn’t it? Could they be any more dishonest?

  9. #9 Carlie
    March 20, 2008

    That’s what I wondered – did they put out an APB on bearded professor-looking types? And letting Dawkins in but not you will have me laughing for DAYS.

    Wait, everyone who went to see it had to SIGN IN AND SHOW ID? Where was this being shown? I totally would want to throw a massive fit in line about identity theft and how they weren’t entitled to my personal information just to see a movie.

  10. #11 glopk
    March 20, 2008

    Man, if it was an intentional diversion you’ve earned your Intelligence Tradecraft Badge of Merit right there.

    Thanks for the laugh, can’t wait to hear Mr. Dawkins review of the projection.

  11. #12 Schmeer
    March 20, 2008

    Oh I can’t wait to hear more from Richard about the rest of the event.
    Did these doofuses even realize that Richard Dawkins was in the US right now? You’d think if they put up PZ wanted posters they might have told the ID-checker at the door to look for Dennet, Hitchens, Harris or Dawkins. Wow, how’s that for not thinking things all the way through?

  12. #13 Barry
    March 20, 2008

    Nicccce! I can’t wait to hear what he has to say about it.

  13. #14 Nerdette
    March 20, 2008

    I want to know if Dawkins managed to keep a straight face as he entered the theatre. Oh, my belly hurts from laughing so hard!

  14. #15 minusRusty
    March 20, 2008

    PZ!! CALL THE PRESS AND HAVE DAWKINS INTERVIEWED AFTER THE MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. #16 Josh
    March 20, 2008

    I second minus’ comment – call the press. Right. Now. TV, radio, newspaper. This is tooooooo good to let go. Call Richard on his cell.

  16. #17 Nick K
    March 20, 2008

    As an aside…. Ummm… How long was the line??

  17. #18 LK
    March 20, 2008

    LOL, nice work. Can’t wait for tomorrow.

  18. #20 Ian H Spedding FCD
    March 20, 2008

    Priceless! Absolutely priceless!

    You have to tell us, was this a cunning plan or a brilliant piece of improvisation?

  19. #21 rmp
    March 20, 2008

    There is absolutely no other response to this but

    OMG

  20. #22 PZ Myers
    March 20, 2008

    I’m actually a bit stuck as far as alerting the media — no cell phones, remember?

    If any locals in the twin cities want to call the area news and let them know that the infamous atheist Richard Dawkins got in to see this creationist movie, and he’s at the AMC 14 at the Mall of America, please do. The movie started around 7:30, I imagine it will be over around 9 or 9:30.

    I’m just going to hang around outside the theater. I’m sure any reporters who show up will recognize me, and I’ll point Dawkins out to them.

  21. #23 extatyzoma
    March 20, 2008

    oh heck, you should have BOTH beeen wearing a burka.

  22. #24 extatyzoma
    March 20, 2008

    PZ, if what you are saying is true its just so funny. It must have been incredibly exciting, a bit like being underage and getting caught trying to go in a nightclub when all the while your underage buddy has got in there….with all the drugs!!

  23. #25 Amadán
    March 20, 2008

    Pleasepleaseplease let some fundie see this post and have Dawkins put out. The irony (fundies, look it up…)

    Oh, my sides hurt.

    I am … honoured to have been virtually present at this pwning. Bravo.

  24. #26 Bee
    March 20, 2008

    That is the funniest thing I’ve heard in weeks.

    And… these Expelled people are really insane. It’s a movie, ferwhutsake!

  25. #27 Summer Squirrel
    March 20, 2008

    Lurker here, first time comment. That post was GREAT! My little atheist heart is laughing so hard! Please let Richard post his review of this movie.

  26. #28 Paul Hands
    March 20, 2008

    OH YES!!!!

    That has brightened up an otherwise dismal (good) Friday. Here in Ireland the hypocrisy is at fever pitch, and this news is just brilliant.

  27. #29 Mark P.
    March 20, 2008

    RRRROOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLL

    I’m sorry that you were “Expelled,” PZ, but this is the FUNNIEST thing I’ve EVER heard! LMAOOOOOOOOOO
    I can’t wait to hear Dawkins’ response to the film!

  28. #30 CanadianChick
    March 20, 2008

    bwahahahaha….

    can’t…

    breathe…

    laughing…

    too hard…

  29. #32 Rich
    March 20, 2008

    GAWD that’s funny! You can’t make that kind of stuff up!!

  30. #33 extatyzoma
    March 20, 2008

    hysterical. next time make sure hitchens is there too, pushing his way in, really drunk with ‘were on the bloody guest list you know’.

    its like a friggin comedy act round here at the moment, excellent.

  31. #34 Sastra
    March 20, 2008

    Could they have kicked you out so that they could play up the “Now he knows how we feel” angle? Revenge — the worm finally turns, and now the atheist biology professor gets it? Creationists rejoice, because we finally have a chance to do to them what they do to us? See how HE likes it! This is what THEY do — in our science labs and classrooms! We’re still fighting for the Little Guy, and for Jesus.

    I mean, this is just so dumb from their own point of view. I keep trying to figure out what their spin is. They want to be seen as victims. Removing someone who wants to sit quietly and watch the movie makes no freaking sense if you’re playing into a narrative of being oppressed.

    Maybe they think fellow creationists will get a sense of justice satisfied? This is some kind of ‘pay back?’

  32. #35 Puneet
    March 20, 2008

    My roommate showed me this two minutes ago and I literally burst into laughter.

    Hopefully Dawkins gets to stick around for the entire thing; then he can spread the word about how the people who made Expelled are the most hypocritical people ever.

  33. #36 raven
    March 20, 2008

    You should have thought ahead. Get someone with a video camera to record you being evicted. Then on to YouTube.

    Geesh, PZ, you missed your chance to be a movie star. I’m sure some of the frames would look good on T shirts, mouse pads, and coffee mugs. Think of the tie ins. PZ action figures, lunch boxes, and Holiday cards.

    Academics are so clueless. I bet you don’t even have an agent.

  34. #37 Brigit
    March 20, 2008

    ROFL sooo hard my cat ran away! I wish there was some magical live video feed of this. Beyond awesome.

  35. #38 RBH
    March 20, 2008

    Man, I can’t imagine how those guys have any toes left, they shoot themselves themselves in the foot so often.

  36. #39 Jackson
    March 20, 2008

    there aren’t even words for this. absolutely made my night…

  37. #40 Zarquon
    March 20, 2008

    Of course Dawkins has an Oxbridge English accent so they were compelled to let him through.

  38. #41 Dentarthurdent
    March 20, 2008

    Allow me to list the things these people did wrong,
    Also Known As “4 steps to epic fail”

    1. Create ridiculous propaganda film

    2. Use hired muscle to prevent entrance of critics thus showing everyone the blatant hypocrisy of your production.

    3. The guards you hired are so ignorant that they let the critics attend in droves.

    4. You marketing pitch is about different viewpoints being censored.

  39. #42 Bobby
    March 20, 2008

    *Falls down on the ground in praise*

    I AM NOT WORTHY, I AM NOT WORTHY!

    I seriously spent five minutes laughing after I read this.

  40. #43 toomanytribbles
    March 20, 2008

    uncontrollable… hysterical… laughter……

  41. #44 eewolf
    March 20, 2008

    Creationists: pulling embarrassment from the jaws of defeat for 150 years.

  42. #45 Eric
    March 20, 2008

    So wait a sec… they ID’d people at the door… and Dawkins still got in? How did that work? “Excuse me, you – bearded fellow, you need to leave. Oh Richard Dawkins, how are you doing? I’ve heard a lot about you, it’s nice to finally meet you. Right this way, sir.”

  43. #46 bfish
    March 20, 2008

    I just e-mailed an editor at the Star-Tribune who is a childhood friend of my wife. No way to know if he is online – it’s well after work hours in the Twin Cities. Someone local should call the paper, using the contact info above.

  44. #47 mayhempix
    March 20, 2008

    Too fucking funny.
    Right out of a movie, figuratively and literally.

    Maybe there is an Atheist God after all.

    Just kidding… but “Atheist God” is a great oxymoron.

    ;^ )

  45. #48 Patty
    March 20, 2008

    Funny, funny, really funny!

  46. #49 Janus
    March 20, 2008

    Bwahahahahahahahaaaaaa! Those IDiots! Unbelievable.

  47. #50 Spook
    March 20, 2008

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    *deep breath*

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    I can’t wait to hear how this one pans out… not to mention, what Dawkins has to say about the farce.

  48. #51 Candy
    March 20, 2008

    emailed a Minneapolis T.V. personality who used to be in our area and who had an open mind and great sense of humor. We’ll see. She may be in the studio this evening. Be a shame if no one caught this.

  49. #52 phat
    March 20, 2008

    Holy cow!

    That’s perfect.

    phat

  50. #53 Andrew
    March 20, 2008

    This is unbelievable….

  51. #54 Zeno
    March 20, 2008

    A splendid story. And think how great the “explanation” from the Expelled flacks will be when they try to brush this aside.

    Fun, fun, fun!

  52. #55 Bad
    March 20, 2008

    “You can stop calling the Star Tribune. They know about it now.”

    You got to wonder what the poor guy at the breaking tip desk has to be thinking: it probably took him a couple of minutes to sort out what the heck anyone was talking about.

    “They put a Dawkins in a what now?”

  53. #56 Geral
    March 20, 2008

    I can’t believe they singled you out for the boot? I can’t wait to see what Dawkins says on this.

  54. #57 mutability
    March 20, 2008

    Those unfortunate people that watching the movie….. I hope their decompression back into the reality is swift. Best wishes!

  55. #58 Hank Fox
    March 20, 2008

    Maybe someone could submit this to Digg or some of the other bookmark sites?

  56. #59 extatyzoma
    March 20, 2008

    post #124

    RD may have said said ‘im Prof Dick Dawkins’.

    whos going to question that??

  57. #60 wildcardjack
    March 20, 2008

    I laughed so hard it hurt.

  58. #61 Despard
    March 20, 2008

    That is absolutely brilliant. :-)

  59. #62 thalarctos
    March 20, 2008

    Just when I think my heuristic for what posts I can drink while reading is sufficiently sensitive, I go and read this one–tea out my nose!

    Monad, I liked your artwork, and I really appreciate your cutting it off at the waist like you did. I swear, if I see those legs in those shorts one more time, I’m going to have to take an icepick and put out my mind’s eye.

  60. #63 Kell
    March 20, 2008

    This is sweet. So very very sweet. I enjoy it now, the sweetness. Oh yes.

  61. #64 The Flying Trilobite
    March 20, 2008

    Well, I wonder if a photo of Professor Dawkins will appear on a question on America’s Most Smartest Model? Y’know, to raise public awareness of this menacing chameleon who can infiltrate God’s Army.

    Maybe they will try to pull strings and have him ‘expelled’ out of the U.S.A. for seeing a movie under false pretenses. Man, that’s like, so militant of him.

  62. #65 JJ
    March 20, 2008

    Too fucking funny !!!! I heard Dawkins speak last night in Austin, Tx. He briefly responded to a question about the film. Can’t wait for the reviews PZ !!!! Is it leagl to escort you out of a public theater ?????

  63. #66 Susan Brown
    March 20, 2008

    Gosh, the behavior of the “Expellers” is what you’d expect from the Soviets during the Lysenko era.

    What an awesome story, PZ!

  64. #67 Clan:Rewired
    March 20, 2008

    Come on PZ, don’t say you guys are going straight for a Guinness laughing yourselves under the barstool! You dropped this bomb, now tell us what happened next!!!

  65. #68 Lulu
    March 20, 2008

    I think this is funny enough to be shared with digg. And someone submitted it already.

    http://digg.com/general_sciences/Expelled_from_Expelled

  66. #69 Kevin L.
    March 20, 2008

    Funniest thing I’ve read in a while. I can’t wait to see what Dawkins has to say about this. Thanks for posting, PZ :)

  67. #70 Justin Moretti
    March 20, 2008

    These stupid ID/Creo bastards are full of epic fail. If there is a God, he is by now so disgusted with their hypocrisy and dishonesty that he has arranged a skip-the-queue function for them in Hell.

    Happy being-kicked-out-day, PZ. But if I’ve read aright, Skatje’s almost as dangerous as you are anyway, so they are even more full of epic fail. Be fun to know how the whole thing played out.

  68. #71 Michelle
    March 20, 2008

    I absolutely DUGG this thing!

    Come on diggers! Let’s rise this story to the top where it rightfully belongs!

  69. #72 Jen
    March 20, 2008

    Brilliant! This is hilarious beyond reason! P.Z., you are officially completely awesome. I totaly need graven image of you to put in a place of prominence in my home!

  70. #73 John
    March 20, 2008

    Too Funny!

    MONAD made this:
    [IMG]http://i28.tinypic.com/rhq1zk.jpg[/IMG]

  71. #74 Richard
    March 20, 2008

    I wanted to comment on this because this is going to go down in atheist history as one of the greatest moments ever. This is truly a sweet moment. Thank you PZ.

  72. #75 Marcus Ranum
    March 20, 2008

    pwn3d
    t0atal pwn3d

  73. #76 Buzz Parsec
    March 20, 2008

    I haven’t read all 185 posts yet, so maybe someone else has already told you this, but I would contact the ACLU immediately. This is a clear civil rights violation. A theater is a place of public accommodation, and can’t deny service to *anyone* solely for reasons of religious denomination (or lack thereof). All the people who have been posting that “it’s private property, they can kick anyone out for any reason” are just plain *WRONG*.

    (It’s real hard typing this, I’m laughing too hard. So please ignore any typos.)

    So how’s it feel to be the Rosa Parks of invertebrates? :-)

  74. #77 phantomreader42
    March 20, 2008

    Hired thugs to keep out “undesirables”?

    The movie is just most creationist “arguments”. A masterpiece of projection.

    Do they not even notice that they’re doing EXACTLY WHAT THEY’RE ACCUSING TEH EBIL DARWINISTS OF?!!11

    I mean, we know they’re stupid, dishonest, and completely incapable of self-examination. But which of those characteristics should this massive asshattery be attributed to?

  75. #78 impirius
    March 20, 2008

    I guess they don’t know much about “ID” after all.

    Jessa (#91) – if you find any information on a Raleigh/Durham area screening, please pass the word along!

  76. #79 Shadow
    March 20, 2008

    Oh my betentacled overlord. I thought I was already having the best day ever, and now I come home to a little sugary rose on on the icing on my cake.

    Priceless. Mastercard-commercial priceless.

  77. #81 Kseniya
    March 20, 2008

    “Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?”

    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  78. #82 chancelikely
    March 20, 2008

    Predicted IDiot spin angle: they’ll whine about all the posts here suggesting legal action by PZ. Just a guess, seeing as how the alternative is deny and ignore.

    Well, maybe deny and ignore will be the tack they choose.

  79. #83 silence
    March 20, 2008

    Reed: Sure, but they could have decided that PZ Meyers was likely to pan them in his review of the movie, and decided to try to keep him out for that reason. Unless somebody is willing to take the case to discovery to try and find out if they were dumb enough to write down their reasons, I’d be astonished if you could win that one in court.

  80. #84 RamblinDude
    March 20, 2008

    Oh, jeez, RamblinDude, we must be spiritually connected.

    Or fortuitously coincidentally acting.

    Serendipitously synchronous? :-)

    I don’t know, I’m kind of dissapointed that you didn’t make a scene PZ. I have this wild image of the keystone cops chasing you and Professor Dawkins around the mall. :-)

  81. #85 Sharilyn
    March 20, 2008

    Movie ticket to Expelled, $9.00
    Popcorn and pop $10.50
    Being thrown out of a movie you actually appear in, PRICELESS

  82. #86 Marcus Ranum
    March 20, 2008

    Someone needs to spin Hitch up with a 5th and point him at the movie. Make sure you capture the explosion on video.

  83. #87 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    I don’t know, I’m kind of dissapointed that you didn’t make a scene PZ. I have this wild image of the keystone cops chasing you and Professor Dawkins around the mall. :-)

    ala Benny Hill?

    yeah, I can just picture it…

  84. #88 Kevin
    March 20, 2008

    post #200: Seconded!
    I almost feel sorry for the cop.

  85. #89 ERV
    March 20, 2008

    **high fives everyone in the room**

    Epic win. EPIC!!!! YAAAAAAAY!!!

  86. #90 Angus
    March 20, 2008

    On the last episode of Real Time With Bill Maher I seem to remember the end credits displayed who was going to be on the next episode (the one airing this week). If I recall correctly Richard Dawkins will be on Real Time with Bill Maher. Perhaps we should all tune in!

  87. #91 Crudely Wrott
    March 20, 2008

    This is History in the making! And it’s hilarious, ironic, revealing and, well, lots of stuff about it lends infinitely increasing credibility! Everybody chalk up another point on the tally board. YEEEEE-HAAAAA!

  88. #92 gabriel
    March 20, 2008

    reminds me of the verse “strain out a gnat, swallow a camel.” no offense, PZ, of course.

    Hilarious! We’re all waiting for the post-movie interviews!!

  89. #93 Calilasseia
    March 20, 2008

    HAHAHAHAHA!

    You can’t make this up.

    As if the movie itself wasn’t totally retarded in its premise, they NOW HAND AN ABSOLUTE PR GIFT TO PZ.

    PZ, If I were you, I’d call CNN. They’d HAVE to interview you about this!

  90. #94 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 20, 2008

    Still laughing. I think i may need to grab a single barrel bourbon on the rocks to calm me down.

    This is really one of the funniest things I’ve heard all year.

    I CAN NOT wait to read the spin on this.

  91. #95 paul
    March 20, 2008

    #237- just looked up Real Time’s website on HBO.com, and it doesn’t list Richard Dawkins from what I can see. That’d be entertaining though.

  92. #96 Ragutis
    March 20, 2008

    A) Fundies have been the demise of many an irony meter, but I think I’m gonna frame the remains of this most recent one. (As much as I can find, at least… it went EVERYWHERE!)

    B) I’m assuming that they simply weren’t expecting Dawkins in Minnesota (Nobody expects the British Biologistician!). Interesting experiment: fly to London, P.Z. and see if you can get in.

    C) Shouldn’t an interviewee be entitled to a screening or advance copy in order to see how they were portrayed or if their position was accurately presented? I mean, that sounds like the ethical… Oh.

    Well, it would be polite… err…

    Never mind. I’m obviously expecting too much.

  93. #97 BlueIndependent
    March 20, 2008

    ROFL @ #248, that is PRICELESS!

  94. #98 Colin
    March 20, 2008

    I just wrote Seth Myers about it. He probably won’t get the message in time for Weekend Update this Saturday, but it’s worth a shot.

  95. #99 Tyler DiPietro
    March 20, 2008

    “You should have allowed yourself to be arrested. You were to commit no crime at all. Please don’t show courage on the web only to show cowardice in real life. Is this how you stand up for what you believe?”

    Well, there’s always criminal trespass and disturbance of the peace. If I were in PZ’s position, I know I’d be iffy about the legality of it. He wouldn’t have accomplished anything by making a fuss and getting arrested, not to mention that this delicious irony wouldn’t have come about if he’d done otherwise.

  96. #100 Jesús Pineda
    March 20, 2008

    Absolutely HILARIOUS!!!!! Can’t wait for Dawkins’ comments on the movie. Just goes to show how dumb you have to be to buy into the whole ID nonsense: keep the cephalopods out, but let the Babe Ruth of atheism in… Oh the hilarity!

  97. #101 pshaw
    March 20, 2008

    PZ… you are my hero for today.

  98. #102 ngong
    March 20, 2008

    I guess there was some kind of list of “likely troublemakers”, and a Dawkins appearance was considered highly improbable. Yet…it happened! Evidence of design!

  99. #103 T. Bruce McNeely
    March 20, 2008

    Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!

    Once again we have a fine example of why I no longer feel badly about calling cdesign proponentists stupid.

  100. #104 Dick Durata
    March 20, 2008

    Come on, PZ, fess up. You were wearing your squid costume, weren’t you?

  101. #105 John
    March 20, 2008

    PZ – We will post your bail!
    Go back and demand to see that crappy movie!
    Offer twice the face value…no wait – that would be nothing.
    Never-mind.

    Damn math.

  102. #106 Boosterz
    March 20, 2008

    Make sure Richard Dawkins saves his ticket stub. Ebay FTW! lol

  103. #107 Destiny
    March 20, 2008

    CNN Bulletin: “Riot at Mall of America”

  104. #108 reed
    March 20, 2008

    silence #225
    I agree, and honestly, it would be a waste of resources to take to court. The usual “we reserve the right to refuse service yada yada” is broad enough that you’d have a hard time proving discrimination even if you wanted to. I don’t even know if the quoted section would apply to a nominally “private” screening.

    However, they know, and we know, that is exactly why they kept him out. The fact that the civil rights act specifically mentions theaters made it too funny not to post. Especially given that the movie is about the alleged discrimination against ID.

    In any case it’s a wonderful own goal on their part. What does it say about a film when the producers refuse to let someone who appeared in the film into a screening ? Not noticing Dawkins is just the icing on the cake.

  105. #109 EdSG
    March 20, 2008

    Best. Sabot.
    Ever.

  106. #110 Paula Helm Murray
    March 20, 2008

    They probably didn’t put Mr. Dawkins on their list because they probably assumed he wouldn’t be there. Just guessing.

    On the other hand, I wish I could figure out which Alaska fish organization I can complain to because every time I see B-n St–n on the wild Alaska fish commercial it raises my blood pressure. He’s Just a pitchman without any kind of good guidance. But there are several organizations…

  107. #111 Henwli
    March 20, 2008

    Good grief. As I read the post the punchline was hidden just below the visible area. There’s only one basic way of replying to something like this:

    10 print “HA”
    20 goto 10

  108. #112 lao tzu
    March 20, 2008

    http://www.expelledthemovie.com/chronicle.php?article=8
    Disinvited to a Screening, a Critic Ends Up in a Faith-Based Crossfire

    … “After Mr. Moore’s review, Mr. Stein commented, “Oh well. This will probably happen a lot more times.”

    The above from the expelledthemovie site tells me this was probably a publicity stunt. The 300 comments above this one tell me it’ll work.

    I don’t think Ben Stein is interested in anything but Ben Stein’s money.

    Hey, it’s still hilarious.

  109. #113 Harmony
    March 20, 2008

    PZ!!! PLEASE READ THIS! Last night, Nightline did a segment on a science museum in Denver that allows groups to come in and give a Biblical tour of the museum! A leader takes groups of children in and tells them how all the evolution science in the museum is wrong! I was amazed that the museum head let them do this, I wouldn’t. After all, they all could go in, just without the unathorized tour. But it sure shows up the EXPELLED people!

  110. #114 rsquared
    March 20, 2008

    PZ must’ve forgotten to get his horns trimmed and tuck his tail into his boxers before going to the mall. I’m still laughing, and living in Dallas within walking distance of a dozen churches doesn’t seem as hopeless as it did an hour ago.

  111. #115 Jet Black
    March 20, 2008

    I’d like to see a guest blog entry from Richard Dawkins reviewing the film. That would be the height of amusement.

    I can’t believe though that the producers have carefully gone through the lists of names for people to evict. I wonder if there were any others.

  112. #116 deadman_932
    March 20, 2008

    You should have allowed yourself to be arrested. You were to commit no crime at all. Please don’t show courage on the web only to show cowardice in real life. Is this how you stand up for what you believe?
    Get real, Danny. Getting busted would likely involve trying to shove past security to get arrested for trespass or creating a public disturbance — with your daughter in tow — leaving a guest (Dawkins)in the lurch.

    Try to engage your brain before you post. Being stupid isn’t brave. Being temperate isn’t cowardice.

  113. #117 Danny
    March 20, 2008

    “Well, there’s always criminal trespass and disturbance of the peace. If I were in PZ’s position, I know I’d be iffy about the legality of it. He wouldn’t have accomplished anything by making a fuss and getting arrested, not to mention that this delicious irony wouldn’t have come about if he’d done otherwise.

    Far be it for me to answer for Mr Myers, but being arrested to “stand up for what (he) believe(s)” is not bravery.

    In some cases sheer defiance could be brave, but cool intellect and galvanizing the blogging-troops is standing up for what I suspect Prof. Myers believes.”

    “If indeed legal action needs to be taken (and I agree with Greta Christina that it may not – this could have been a pre-show screening or party and not a public event)we can all rest assured it will be worked out. ”

    Ha ha, I’m sure it indeed ‘will all be worked out’. I’m certain Prof. Myers has stood up for what he believes in. Fact is, he would not need have ‘made a fuss’ – only stand his ground for what is his right to do – go to a movie in the MOA. Even if technically ‘a crime’ it is certainly NOT an actual crime and he should have had the courage to stand his ground on what he believes and potentially been arrested. That would be a far better and greater show of conviction, in real terms, of what we stand for. It’s like the old adage – ‘They came for the Jews/Xians/Zoasters and I did nothing…’ They came for the Atheist and he did nothing.

  114. #118 TK Kenyon
    March 20, 2008

    ROTFL so hard I had as asthma attack. After a couple squirts of albuterol, I read it again and dang near had to go to the hospital.

    Oh, my stars, that’s funny.

    I’m so linking to this on my blog: http://rabidatheists.blogspot.com/.

    TK Kenyon, Author of RABID: A Novel and CALLOUS: A Novel
    “A science vs. religion smackdown. Guess who wins?”

  115. #119 Epikt
    March 20, 2008

    sfik

    noncarborundum:

    Excellent.

    I do regret that Cherryh never hired Marc Okrand to devise a complete Kifish grammar.

    So if, after this Great Moment in Creationism, I begin to refer to PZ as Mekt-Hakkikt, at least one other person will understand.

  116. #120 Danny
    March 20, 2008

    “Get real, Danny. Getting busted would likely involve trying to shove past security to get arrested for trespass or creating a public disturbance — with your daughter in tow — leaving a guest (Dawkins)in the lurch.”

    Why would anyone have to shove security personnel? That’s a straw-man argument. He could have simply stood his place in line until removed. No shoving required.

  117. #121 pradeep
    March 20, 2008

    Bravo. Masterful. Too good to be true.

  118. #122 DaveH
    March 20, 2008

    Abso-fucking-lutely hilarious. Well done!

  119. #123 Danny
    March 20, 2008

    I think it would have been ever better P.R. for him to stand his ground (not shove anyone etc. – so fucking shrill) and be arrested for his beliefs.

  120. #124 paul
    March 20, 2008

    Get arrested for believing that he has the right to see a private screening of a movie, when the law obviously says the opposite. I don’t know, I have a little more respect for PZ’s intelligence than you do Danny.

  121. #125 SteadyEddy
    March 20, 2008

    Ditto Martin #331… well said.

  122. #126 Dan
    March 20, 2008

    I wonder if this will be included on Expelled’s atrocious Wikipedia page.

  123. #127 Rey Fox
    March 20, 2008

    Please, someone come in and tell us that we shouldn’t ridicule these people. I DARE you.

    Can’t imagine suing them for it, though. I think the whole incident is too silly, and surely anyone suggesting the lawsuit route has never actually sued anyone and had to go through all the involved rigamrole for months and months. Nope, far better to just laugh. And laugh. And point. And laugh.

    As the good Proinsias Cassidy would say, “WANKERRRRRRS!”

  124. #128 KC
    March 20, 2008

    To PZ: Sir, Bravo. This is too good to be true. I look forward to Dawkins’ take down of this utter bilge.

    @#331 Agreed. No arresting needed. He’d gone and done more damage than he could have possibly by raising a stink – he’d enabled a high profile individual to rip them a new one.

  125. #129 Michael Lonergan
    March 20, 2008

    Holy Crap! I just read this on the BA blog. So, they actually stopped you from attending a frakkin’ movie!? WTF!!?? Can they even do that?

    Geez, I know from reading Phil’s blog that PZ is a Rabble rouser :) but this is beyond belief. It prompts the obvious question: Whatthe hell did you do to deserve this? I mean you must be some bad ass atheist or something?

  126. #130 Martin
    March 20, 2008

    Danny, I’m wondering who’s more clueless about life — you or Ben Stein.

  127. #131 QED
    March 20, 2008

    Sitting here sick as a dog tonight, thinking my long weekend has gone sour, then this. This is better than any medicine I could have hoped for. After I clean the Sprite off my keyboard, I’m going back to bed a happy man. If this isn’t a fever dream, it’s the most hilarious thing I’ve read in weeks!

  128. #132 Sharilyn
    March 20, 2008

    Somewhere between the irony and the hypocrisy I am laughing to hard to breath,(also reaching for my Albuterol) and irritated beyond belief! Just what did the dumb-asses who made this decision THINK was going to happen?
    (I imagine in a backroom – when hearing of the immediate response to this – a Homer Simpsonesque D’oh! escaping from the lips of the brainiac who made the decision to expel PZ)

  129. #133 Dude
    March 20, 2008

    #331

    Exactly!

    PZ doesn’t need to sue, or make a scene, or get himself arrested. Though, you could argue that by staying out of jail tonight he has enabled himself to respond in a way that makes a “scene at the mall” insignificant.

    Also, if it was a private screening, then he’d have been in the wrong to create that “scene” anyway, and would have zero grounds to launch legal action.

    His response was perfect!

    Well done PZ!

  130. #134 Rey Fox
    March 20, 2008

    Also: I’m too too envious of your daughter and your wife for getting to see a movie with Richard Dawkins. I imagine he’s too staid an individual to do MST3K-style commentary, but still, wow. I hope Skatje does a nice blog post about this.

  131. #135 Sharilyn
    March 20, 2008

    #331 BRAVO, Can we have a RAMEN!

  132. #136 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    .However,it is obvious that the orders were given from people who are not law enforcement types,but merely promoters,or even producers of this film.If so,by what authority do these individuals have the power to command a public servant to order a non-threatening,shirt and shoe wearing person to step out of line,or face arrest?

    I completely agree, provided, of course, that there were actually on duty cops involved, and it wasn’t just a bunch of thugs in mall guard uniforms.

    If on duty police WERE involved in this, it would indeed be worth asking if the city supports this use of its personnel.

    this takes nothing away from the gift given to PZ at all; it’s an entirely separate issue from the irony that is religious IDiocy.

  133. #137 Blue Gal
    March 20, 2008

    but see? I knew you were the most wonderful there is, PZ. A bigger rock star of the atheist blogosphere than even Dawkins. He got to see the screening and he is STILL jealous. xo

  134. #138 Gary Bohn
    March 20, 2008

    PZ did precisely the correct thing by drawing attention away from Dawkins and Skatje allowing them to watch the film. Getting arrested would have prevented both Dawkins and Skatje from entering the theater.

    More will come of this the way it played out than if PZ had been arrested.

  135. #139 speedwell
    March 20, 2008

    @Danny: You don’t understand. There were TWO wins here. The first win was how bad it made them look to throw out someone who appeared in that very film as an interviewee, as if (probably because) they didn’t want him to see the mess they made of his interview and because they feared honest and pointed criticism. The second win was when they let in the very last person they wanted to let in, Richard Dawkins.

    The third win will, I think, be when Skatje, a witness to both events, covers this.

  136. #140 Jules
    March 20, 2008

    I converted Sharilyn (#350) to Pastafariansim just an hour ago. It just made sense to her…

  137. #141 John
    March 20, 2008

    Martin -> I guess some people just do not like to see discrimination. We understand that PZ “pOwned” B. Stein/Expelled after being tossed out, but it still pisses some of us off. PZ is most likely being bought multiple drinks at a local tavern, and him and Richard Dawkins are now Best Buddies. Lucky bastard.

    That’s all.

  138. #142 DAC
    March 20, 2008

    Don’t crow too loudly, PZ. Rumor has it Dawkins made an ass of himself after the screening. “Ass Prod” Mark Mathis gave Dawkins a little bit of rope, and Dawkins was quick to start winding it around his own neck. I think you’ll get a bit of egg on your face too out of this, PZ.

  139. #143 Bryan
    March 20, 2008

    Lolz.

    Posted on the front page of the Myspace Atheists and Agnostics group. This story needs to go viral.

  140. #144 ERV
    March 20, 2008

    So… am I the only one sitting here, hitting refresh every ~30 seconds… luving all the comments and waiting for an official Dawkins update?

    Im so not going to sleep tonight, now.

    LOL Im such a loser LOOOOL!

  141. #145 gg
    March 20, 2008

    Kudos, PZ!

    Down here in the Carolinas, the best I can do is get thrown out of an Applebee’s…

  142. #146 Chris
    March 20, 2008

    LOL

    That is just spectacular, and spectacularly funny. I look forward to hearing what Dr. Dawkins has to say about the, *cough*, film.

  143. #147 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    I imagine he’s too staid an individual to do MST3K-style commentary

    I dunno about that, I recall Kristine blogging about that trip to the Galapagos that Dawkins was also on; and he had a few quips along the MST3K type.

    I don’t think he could resist a good poke, but he would do it quietly.

  144. #148 Sastra
    March 20, 2008

    Of course everyone “had to sign in and show ID.” That’s how dangerous being a Christian Creationist in America is. They have enemies all around. They have to be so careful.

    It’s so dangerous being a Christian Creationist in America, they even need police protection. That’s what it’s gotten down to. That’s how bad it is. Atheists try to sneak in and disrupt their worship services. Well, okay, take notes. Or maybe just watch.

    To make them nervous. On purpose.

    Well, okay, it was a movie, and not a worship service. But Christians getting together. Bonding together, in a time of need, to become strong, to support each other. They were kicked out of the public schools, kicked out of the peer review magazines, kicked out of the textbooks. All they have now is the movie theater — and each other.

    And PZ tries to get in. He can’t leave them alone. He can’t just let them be. Dawkins, too. They want to sneer and scoff at Christian Creationists. This is persecution. Like under the Romans, or Jesus on the cross.

    Is there nowhere Christian Creationists can be safe anymore in all of America? Is even the Mall of America a hostile environment? Must they undergo Darwinist eye-rolling and brow-lifting and heavy-sighing in their own movie theater? Is nothing at all sacred to these atheist evolutionary biology monsters?

    PZ and Dawkins owe an apology to Ben Stein and to the producers of Expelled and above all to Christian Creationists in America. That’s what. Thank God for that cop who was the only one brave enough to stand up for Christian Creationists and their America.

    /sarcasm

  145. #149 kwandongbrian
    March 20, 2008

    I only read the first 20 or comments so I hope I am not repeating too many people.
    In Ontario, Canada, the Provincial Police can moonlight in uniform for certain events. I apologise that i don’t know all the details.

    If the guard was in fact a police officer, he may well have been working entirely above board. Restricting someone’s access to Expelled is funny but not criminal if the theatre is privately owned.

  146. #150 The Flying Trilobite
    March 20, 2008

    #319 Danny;
    Again, I am not certain this was a public movie. You do have a point about the slippery slope of discrimination, and I know that if it had been myself, I would have been fuming. If it had been myself and my family, I would have been fuming, and assured the guard I would not cause trouble (in that moment) much like Prof Myers.

    Getting arrested by standing ground is not the only option in cases of discrimination. It does work, and is very effective in many instances, you are correct about that.

    Litigation, getting press involved, and creating a possibly viral media story can also work to shame the people doing the discriminating enough that they will not do it again. Approaching a police officer and the manager of the theatre together in a calm manner could also work.

    With how humorous this has been to all of us, perhaps Prof. Myers is also finding it funny in the moment and gathering his thoughts.

    All of us here can suggest choices of action for PZ, and he can choose to listen or not. However, I’m not there at that mall, I don’t think you are either, so it is hard to say whether there was good reason for PZ to blog instead of demand.

    At the moment I feel we have enough facts to find it funny and be concerned about civil rights. Perhaps we should wait for a few more facts before deciding PZ is committing an act of cowardice (your comment #254)?

  147. #151 DaveH
    March 20, 2008

    This confirms it, god’s an atheist.

  148. #152 Berserk
    March 20, 2008

    Dawkins is on Bill Maher tomorrow, hope he mentions this to the American public.

  149. #153 Beth B.
    March 20, 2008

    ERV @ 359: You’re definitely not alone. I didn’t need to get that homework done, anyway :-)

    This post and the subsequent discussion has definitely made my week.

  150. #154 MTran
    March 20, 2008

    Danny said: “Even if technically ‘a crime’ it is certainly NOT an actual crime”

    Anything that is “technically” a crime, is, in fact, a crime (even if it is later found to be unconstitutional, but that is not the case here). You seem to think that if something is malum prohibitum rather than malum in se, it cannot be criminal. You are wrong.

    “he should have had the courage to stand his ground on what he believes and potentially been arrested.”

    So, what great moral or philosophical issue is at stake here? Really, what over-arching ethical principle should over-take a rational response?

    “That would be a far better and greater show of conviction, in real terms, of what we stand for.”

    Who is “we”? Do you mean “you”? And what do you stand for, other than dipshit arrogance? If you ever find yourself arrested, for any reason, explain to your defense attorney that you are just “felony stupid” and wanted to uphold your right to a trial by your peers.

    Sheesh, I went out of my way to antagonize authority in the 60s, and got beat by the cops for it. So it’s not like I don’t know how to stand up for my own convictions, but your statements convict you of brainlessness. I would not want you on my side of any argument.

  151. #155 Dan
    March 20, 2008

    Don’t crow too loudly, PZ. Rumor has it Dawkins made an ass of himself after the screening. “Ass Prod” Mark Mathis gave Dawkins a little bit of rope, and Dawkins was quick to start winding it around his own neck. I think you’ll get a bit of egg on your face too out of this, PZ.

    Posted by: DAC

    It’s so sad when all you have are rumors and lies.

  152. #156 Gary Bohn
    March 20, 2008

    Sastra;

    I have no idea who you are but from where I sit, you did that entirely too well. It was a bit frightening.

  153. #157 Dave Carlson
    March 20, 2008

    Wow, I think this thread might be in danger of bringing the SB servers down (of course, I just made it worse!).

  154. #158 LionDancer
    March 20, 2008

    What a great story! I’ll probably go see this “movie”, but I think I’ll sit on the back of the chair and look away from the screen.

    PZ for president.

  155. #159 Rob
    March 20, 2008

    An absolute classic!! Thanks for bringing some joy to the holiday weekend.
    By the way, does this mean that in their eyes you are a bigger devil than Richard Dawkin’s himself?

  156. #160 dave
    March 20, 2008

    That is just hilarious, can’t wait to read the full account of the movie from Dawkins perspective.

    p.s. see PZ thats what you get for those devilish good looks, next time keep those horns under a hat and that tail safely kept away. :)

  157. #161 Randy Owens
    March 20, 2008

    Sastra: You will plant a bomb?

    Too late, Stein & Co. already did that. It’s in the projector. They do seem to like that projection, don’t they, after all?

  158. #162 ERV
    March 20, 2008

    PAUL DONT GO!!!

    Kristine just posted a short account!!!!

    I just went from ‘LOL!!’ to *PISSED* in 5 seconds.

  159. #163 ema
    March 20, 2008

    Right! This is so epic I say we start work on the obligatory commemorative statue/monument combo immediately.

  160. #164 john
    March 20, 2008

    PZ’s quote from the past:


    Oh, well. I have two warnings for the creationists.

    One, I will go see this movie, and I will cheer loudly at my 30 seconds or whatever on the screen, and I will certainly disembowel its arguments here and in any print venue that wants me. That’s going to be fun.”

    Ref: http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,1559,Im-gonna-be-a-MOVIE-STAR,PZ-Myers-Pharyngula,page2

  161. #165 Tom Zychowski
    March 20, 2008

    I do indeed find that amusing.

    I hope Richard makes his way to Winnipeg and visits one of our schools.

    Take care.

  162. #166 Orac
    March 20, 2008

    Hilarious!

    Here’s hoping Richard Dawkins writes a review…

  163. #167 Brachychiton
    March 20, 2008

    I think we’re seeing the IDiots’ spin in Danny’s posts.

  164. #168 Lee Harrison
    March 20, 2008

    DAC @ 357:

    “Don’t crow too loudly, PZ. Rumor has it Dawkins made an ass of himself after the screening. “Ass Prod” Mark Mathis gave Dawkins a little bit of rope, and Dawkins was quick to start winding it around his own neck. I think you’ll get a bit of egg on your face too out of this, PZ.”

    Do you have a source for these rumours?

  165. #169 Mus
    March 20, 2008

    Oh man, this post made my day. That was AWESOME!

  166. #170 Susan
    March 20, 2008

    DANNY! Had PZ gotten himself arrested, he wouldn’t have been able to make this marvelous post now, would he!

  167. #171 Simon G.
    March 20, 2008

    So PZ’s the decoy atheist now?

  168. #172 Jules
    March 20, 2008

    Does DAC (#357) mean “Dumb-Acting Creationist”?

  169. #173 Matt
    March 20, 2008

    @ #332: I think it would have been ever better P.R. for him to stand his ground (not shove anyone etc. – so fucking shrill) and be arrested for his beliefs.

    Stupid thinking at its finest. I’ll bet you walk into traffic without looking just because you have the right-of-way, don’t you?

    It gains Dr. Myers nothing to be arrested in a situation where laughter is actually a far better weapon.

  170. Blogged, and submitted to Fark as well. This may be… The Greatest Story Ever Told.

  171. #175 Scott
    March 20, 2008

    This is the best damn story I’ve heard all month. All fucking month!

    The ID’ers are so utterly Keystone Kops.

  172. #176 Martin
    March 20, 2008

    John #356: It isn’t so much discrimination as weapons-grade stupidity. Here’s the deal.

    Irony breaker #1: PZ is one of their interviewees, whose appearance they secured under false pretenses, and yet they refused to admit him to the film in which he himself appears, for the obvious reason that they know he’ll get on his massive-trafficked blog and report every error, misrepresentation and falsehood in every frame, in encyclopedic detail.

    Irony breaker #2: In the process of ejecting PZ, they somehow failed to notice that standing right next to him in line was perhaps the most famous scientist, atheist, and evolution advocate currently alive, who’s wrapping up a promotional tour for a book that was a New York Times bestseller for over a year, with cumulative sales of over 1.5 million copies in English. This is reminiscent of the old joke about the actress who was so stupid about how to climb the ladder in Hollywood that she slept with the screenwriter.

    Everything the IDiots did tonight raises the entire concept of stupidity to such previously undreamt heights (or depths, as the case may be), that treating it like it’s some sort of act of discrimination and violation of civil rights to be taken so seriously that only legal recourse will suit, would be beyond overkill. There’s no need to launch an attack on your enemy when they’ve already torpedoed their own submarine.

    There are legitimate situations where discrimination and rights-trampling occur, that should be dealt with appropriately. This isn’t one of them. This is like watching a really stupid person who’s been handed a high explosive with a note saying “DO NOT PRESS THE RED BUTTON” saying to themselves, “Hmm, what’s this red button do?”

    Why get pissed off at this? How was PZ hurt? I wish somebody would do something this stupid to me!

  173. #177 BlueIndependent
    March 20, 2008

    #331 has it nailed. Everyone wanting to pull the Rosa Parks card calm the hell down. The Expelled tools couldn’t have screwed up worse. They managed to identify a *LESS* well-known detractor (no offense PZ), while letting a globally-known and outspoken detractor with several best-selling books and an on-going tour slip by.

    It writes itself.

    Make a scene and get arrested? Are you kidding me? And hand the story BACK to them? Someone in line for the flick would have a picture phone, and they’d run a picture of PZ getting hauled off. The local churches everywhere would be heard cheering for miles this Sunday morning.

    As offensive as the Expelled conspirators are, this is a massively bad punch in the face they gave themselves. This isn’t epic fail, this is Darwin Award material.

  174. #178 MTran
    March 20, 2008

    Does DAC (#357) mean “Dumb-Acting Creationist”?

    I don’t think it’s an act…

  175. #179 Kagehi
    March 20, 2008

    So if, after this Great Moment in Creationism, I begin to refer to PZ as Mekt-Hakkikt, at least one other person will understand.

    Make that two. Just don’t ask me to pronounce it out loud, presuming one could even do so without something like the double set of teeth also seen in the Alien movies, to make all the proper clicks. ;) lol

    Still kind of laughing over this one. Tried to tell my mother what was going on, but the rest of my family either doesn’t care (or in my father’s case chocks it up to, “just what happens every generation”, like nothing has ever progressed or changed since the start of recorded history…), or just doesn’t get it. :(

  176. #180 Marek Eby
    March 20, 2008

    PZ, you’re my hero. I mean for ever and ever!

  177. #181 Hank Fox
    March 20, 2008

    F5, F5, F5 …

    Okay, when comments hit 400, I’m going to bed.

    But this is soooo good.

  178. #182 Heather
    March 20, 2008

    Yup, I submitted this to Fark as well about an hour ago, and it had already been submitted at that point. I, too, am hitting refresh every so often, just waiting to hear what happens when the movie ends and Dawkins et al exit the theatre…

  179. #183 larry gassan
    March 21, 2008

    Amazing! Never underestimate the power of a closed mind to find you in complete darkness!

  180. #184 PalMD
    March 21, 2008

    I just have to add my own “HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!111!one!”

  181. #185 Brian W.
    March 21, 2008

    LLOL (Literally, laughing out loud)

    PZ should have told the security guard “BTW, i’m in the movie” as he was walking away.

  182. #186 Jim C
    March 21, 2008

    It’s great to know that irony is still alive in this world!

  183. #187 Hairy Doctor Professor
    March 21, 2008

    So if, after this Great Moment in Creationism, I begin to refer to PZ as Mekt-Hakkikt, at least one other person will understand.

    Gods rot the Personage. And his fluff.

  184. #188 Lulu
    March 21, 2008

    You’ve been front-paged at Digg. You’re doomed.

  185. #189 Hank Fox
    March 21, 2008

    The story just made the front page of Digg!

    http://digg.com/

  186. #190 Jackson
    March 21, 2008

    Promoted to popular on digg!

  187. #191 John
    March 21, 2008

    The movie should be over by now…
    They are all out drinking and celebrating the Evolutionist victory! PZ will probably have enough material to Blog for months about partying with Richard Dawkins til the Blue Laws were in effect!

    Go PZ!

  188. #192 rrt
    March 21, 2008

    It’s been a long week, so I really needed this. Thanks PZ & RD. Of course, I think I laughed myself a hernia…

  189. #193 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “Respectable establishments have a right to decline entry to the likes of PZ Myers.”

    Oh, most definitely. He says mean things about people! And he has a BEARD!

    Wankerrrrrs…

  190. #194 Kiwi
    March 21, 2008

    WTF country is this? I guess this comes as non surprise now that BushCo has shredded the Constitution. How sad.

  191. #195 Sastra
    March 21, 2008

    Kristine wrote:

    (Mathis even accused Dawkins of lying, and Dawkins apologized for being wrong. Can’t win for losing.)

    It will be interesting to know what this refers to. Evidently, after the screening the producer called on Richard Dawkins in the audience to answer questions or something. And then laughed at him (?)

  192. #196 Rev. Barky
    March 21, 2008

    Interesting coincidence is that the first question Dawkins asked the smug producer was “why did you expel PZ from Expelled?

  193. #197 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    From Kristine’s account at least, it doesn’t really sound like the Q&A session was particularly productive.

    Given that when they control the venue, we could be cut off at any time, we need to be really good at presenting our points in ways that don’t allow them their usual weasel tactics. It’s very easy to come up with plausible sounding spin if a critic only gets one question, and the producers get all the last words. It’s unfortunately not very easy to put them on the spot in such a situation, especially in front of a lazy, me-tooing audience.

  194. #198 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    1. PZ Myers is a known member of the PT-mafia.

    whaddya know, I ask for more sounds of desperate mewling from IDiots, and I get Wallace dropping by to fulfill my request.

    hey! The Secret works after all!

    ah, the sweet smell of creationists on fire…

    I do love a good BBQ

    more plz?

    remember, this is for posterity, Wallace.

  195. #199 Randy Owens
    March 21, 2008

    LOL, and now I’m imagining Dawkins in line with you: “These aren’t the evolutionists you’re looking for.” “The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.”

  196. #200 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    “How did you find out about the screening? I assume this is for clergy only. ”

    Uh, it was posted on the internet, WW. And you assume wrong as far as I can tell: this latest round of screenings seem to be a bit more open than previous ones, though obviously not open to potential critical thinking.

  197. #202 john
    March 21, 2008

    I’m kinda tired, and even though a Fundie just stuck his head in the den-of-lions, I’m hitting the sack.

    Ya’ll have fun with Wallace-

    [Insert - William Wallace ass-whooping Here]

  198. #203 Rev. Barky
    March 21, 2008

    Dawkins was extremely brave speaking up in the middle of a very unfriendly audience. Fortunately there were a few of us to support him but I can’t imagine how he could have kept quiet after the the way they butchered his interview. The air was thick with smug.

  199. #204 c
    March 21, 2008

    Now Ben Stein has something in common with the Scientologists — shadowy spies keeping tabs on a list of designated enemies.

    …or the Nixon administration.

  200. #205 Sastra
    March 21, 2008

    “PT-Mafia?” What?

  201. #206 ERV
    March 21, 2008

    Genie is commenting over at digg!!

    Okay, seriously, I has to go to sleep. Must sleep! AAAAAAARG!

  202. #207 Gary Bohn
    March 21, 2008

    @382

    Do you have information that Dawkins is coming to Western Canada?

    It would be interesting if he did.

  203. #208 Hank Fox
    March 21, 2008

    Someone should definitely start a list of blogs covering/commenting on this story. It’s gonna be big.

    I’d be interested in the ID spin on it too.

  204. #209 WikipediaIsControlledByGodlessLiberals
    March 21, 2008

    If you missed the film, it was already covered by NPR a few years ago. You can listen to it here.

  205. #210 Lois Willick
    March 21, 2008

    I don’t get it. What movie called “Expelled”. I never heard of it, and I cannot believe there were guards posted to stop people from going into a movie. This sounds dumb!
    What am I supposed to be laughing at?

  206. #211 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    Here’s one of the RSVP pages. No “member of the clergy” checkbox I can see. It looks like they relied on active screening against a list of undesirables this time around rather than limiting it only to hand-picked folks.

  207. #212 ExitB
    March 21, 2008

    God help me! I can’t stop laughing!

  208. #213 Jeff
    March 21, 2008

    This is too funny…but the sad part is that when I get to school tomorrow (I teach HS physics and chem) I won’t be able to share this with my fellow biology teachers. They won’t know who you, or Richard Dawkins, are and this is one of those things that you just can’t explain to people. You either get it or you don’t.

    Still…funniest thing I’ve read all week.

  209. #214 Jason
    March 21, 2008

    Not much to say that hasn’t already been said, but I live in Japan and I’ve been having a slow day today. I was very happy to read this. When I see ID proponents trip over themselves, it makes my day. Thank you…:)

  210. #215 Ralph
    March 21, 2008

    BWAHAHAHA How the hell did the police know who you were? Did they distribute PZ photographs? Did they put out an APB on PZ? This is outrageous!

  211. #216 queg
    March 21, 2008

    I saw Richard Dawkins just last night at UT in Austin, TX. Someone asked him about the movie, and he related that the producers lied to him about the tone, as well as the subject matter of the movie. He was pretty irate when discussing it. He basically said it’s a big bag of bullshit and don’t see it, even though he is in the movie.

  212. #217 Thuraash
    March 21, 2008

    *Reads post*
    *Glances at copy of The Ancestor’s Tale sitting around 3 inches from this computer*
    *…*
    http://www.hybridgraphite.co.uk/OIFY/roflcopter.gif

    That was awesome! Congratulations, Professor. You win at irony.

  213. #218 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    “Dawkins was extremely brave speaking up in the middle of a very unfriendly audience”

    So what did he say exactly?

    I still want to know exactly what he was saying in the “I’m hostile to a rival doctrine” quote: what the rest of the quote was.

  214. #219 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    This is how it works in the real world:

    Posted by: William Wallace

    Want to know what is funny? Well, not as amusing as tonight’s big story but still, there are laughs to be had. A person who spends time pondering unreal things (Just visit his blog.) telling a bunch of materialists what is real.

    Little Willy won’t go home!

  215. #220 Ron Sullivan
    March 21, 2008

    #324:

    So if, after this Great Moment in Creationism, I begin to refer to PZ as Mekt-Hakkikt, at least one other person will understand.

    Two.

  216. #221 opusjones
    March 21, 2008

    FAITH IS TRULY BLIND

  217. #222 Matt
    March 21, 2008

    @ #428: I’d be interested in the ID spin on it too.

    I imagine it will involve Dr. Myers being there to cause trouble (that rabble-rouser!) and being lawfully and righteously removed from the premises. And Dawkins being held up to ridicule in the rigorously-controlled Q&A session afterwards.

    Which was all part of their Master Plan!

    You know, the usual bullshit. The real marvel is that the IDiots can walk and breathe at the same time.

  218. #223 Iroc
    March 21, 2008

    #1 post on Digg right now.

  219. #224 BennyP
    March 21, 2008

    Right on!
    Please tell me you’re going to sue the theater, producer and police department.

  220. #225 G Felis
    March 21, 2008

    @ Sastra (#425): “PT-mafia” presumably refers to Panda’s Thumb, those infamous and scurrilous villains who gather together to criticize honest creationists like William Wallace and make the baby Jesus cry.

  221. #226 Doug Brenner
    March 21, 2008

    Lucky they didn’t give you contradictory orders, knock you down from behind, tase you, and crush your eyeglasses beneath their jackboots. This is Minnesota, you know, and if you’d been trying to do something truly heinous, such as legally bike home from the airport, your luck might have been very different.

  222. #227 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    Right on!
    Please tell me you’re going to sue the theater, producer and police department.

    Posted by: BennyP

    Why sue? The story is great enough.

  223. #228 fyreflye
    March 21, 2008

    This story has now shown up on Dawkins’ own web site http://richarddawkins.net/ top right.

  224. #229 Danny
    March 21, 2008

    Speedwell –

    “@Danny: You don’t understand. There were TWO wins here. The first win was how bad it made them look to throw out someone who appeared in that very film as an interviewee, as if (probably because) they didn’t want him to see the mess they made of his interview and because they feared honest and pointed criticism. The second win was when they let in the very last person they wanted to let in, Richard Dawkins.

    The third win will, I think, be when Skatje, a witness to both events, covers this.”

    ‘Made them look bad’? did it really? How? In any meaningful way? Will this be broadcast over international television, such as are the christians?

    The Flying Trylobite –

    “#319 Danny;
    Again, I am not certain this was a public movie. You do have a point about the slippery slope of discrimination, and I know that if it had been myself, I would have been fuming. If it had been myself and my family, I would have been fuming, and assured the guard I would not cause trouble (in that moment) much like Prof Myers.

    Getting arrested by standing ground is not the only option in cases of discrimination. It does work, and is very effective in many instances, you are correct about that.

    Litigation, getting press involved, and creating a possibly viral media story can also work to shame the people doing the discriminating enough that they will not do it again. Approaching a police officer and the manager of the theatre together in a calm manner could also work.

    With how humorous this has been to all of us, perhaps Prof. Myers is also finding it funny in the moment and gathering his thoughts.

    All of us here can suggest choices of action for PZ, and he can choose to listen or not. However, I’m not there at that mall, I don’t think you are either, so it is hard to say whether there was good reason for PZ to blog instead of demand.

    At the moment I feel we have enough facts to find it funny and be concerned about civil rights. Perhaps we should wait for a few more facts before deciding PZ is committing an act of cowardice (your comment #254)? ”

    You have a point, certainly. I should not have called Dr. Myers a ‘coward’, perhaps too extreme a term. Or not. These people that we are offending, at least in my opinion, are not deserving of such respect that a topic in their movie should walk out, without question – while being molested for their *beliefs*. It’s like arguing that christians should be excluded based on thier beliefs when shown ‘A god Who Wasn’t There’.

    MTran –

    “Danny said: “Even if technically ‘a crime’ it is certainly NOT an actual crime”

    Anything that is “technically” a crime, is, in fact, a crime (even if it is later found to be unconstitutional, but that is not the case here). You seem to think that if something is malum prohibitum rather than malum in se, it cannot be criminal. You are wrong.

    “he should have had the courage to stand his ground on what he believes and potentially been arrested.”

    So, what great moral or philosophical issue is at stake here? Really, what over-arching ethical principle should over-take a rational response?

    “That would be a far better and greater show of conviction, in real terms, of what we stand for.”

    Who is “we”? Do you mean “you”? And what do you stand for, other than dipshit arrogance? If you ever find yourself arrested, for any reason, explain to your defense attorney that you are just “felony stupid” and wanted to uphold your right to a trial by your peers.

    Sheesh, I went out of my way to antagonize authority in the 60s, and got beat by the cops for it. So it’s not like I don’t know how to stand up for my own convictions, but your statements convict you of brainlessness. I would not want you on my side of any argument.”

    “Anything that is “technically” a crime, is, in fact, a crime” If that were actually true, we would never have been able to found the United States of America. You went ‘out of your way’ to antagonize authority? How? why? So you got beaten for it, does that make it any less correct? Based on your statement, it is like you don’t know how to stand up for own convictions. By the way, I served two tours in the Persian Gulf on the USS AMERICA in Desert Storm and the following patrols so as far as I’m concerned I have some license in discussing these matters. Thank you.

    Susan (cutie!)

    “DANNY! Had PZ gotten himself arrested, he wouldn’t have been able to make this marvelous post now, would he!”

    Sure he would, just a matter of a bit of time and effort.

  225. #230 paul
    March 21, 2008

    this is truly excellent. thanks for the best laugh of the day.

  226. #231 waldteufel
    March 21, 2008

    Unbelievable! The DI frauds couldn’t find their collective asses with all their hands and a movie theater full of flashlights.

    Incompetence and Stupidity, thy name is Discovery Institute.

  227. #232 RBH
    March 21, 2008

    Genie Scott commented in the Digg thread.

  228. #233 Marla Shane McCain
    March 21, 2008

    Is PZ also in the film like Dawkins? Is there a possibility that since Dawkins was tricked into being in this film, or for other reasons, he was allowed to enter while PZ was not? I mean, everybody (who wants to) knows Dawkins is in town to do the American Atheist Conference. His “team” of personalities was standing in line – another give-away. They were checking I.D. What did Dawkin’s do when it came his turn?
    I am skeptical about this being such a big oversight on their part. They must know that if they HAD booted someone like Dawkin’s – then that certainly would become a big deal, unlike PZ who walked away.
    I hope I’m just paranoid.

  229. #234 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Is PZ also in the film like Dawkins?

    exactly like Dawkins, in fact.

  230. #235 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    I have not watched the preview. I do have to admit that if PZ Myers is in the film, and the film was not restricted to members of the clergy, PZ should have been allowed to enter, *if* he registered here: http://rsvp.getexpelled.com/events/events/rsvp/202

  231. #236 siddharth
    March 21, 2008

    @ Danny: ‘Made them look bad’? did it really? How? In any meaningful way? Will this be broadcast over international television, such as are the christians?

    Lemme tell you this. Around 100 students in a city in India are ROLFing at the stupidity of the IDiots. And this news is spreading like fire. What an epic fail.

  232. #237 shiftlessbum
    March 21, 2008

    Holy crap! Am I glad I logged on tonight. I cannot wait to hear Dawkins on this. Way to go PZ!

  233. #238 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    Folks, it’s very unlikely that there was a crime here. Rented private spaces can discriminate, especially based on viewpoints. The story here is about hypocrisy, not illegality.

  234. #239 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    PZ should have been allowed to enter

    why, how gracious of you.

    LOL

    c’mon, where’s all that vitriol you save up for the “PT-Mafia”?

    remember, the world is watching. It’s your chance to shine as a representative of creobots everywhere!

  235. #240 Robert Frazer
    March 21, 2008

    Why is this thread in a “Creationism” category?

    The author is barred from a cinema, but his British companion isn’t recognised. This is natural enough, seeing as this is an American cinema in question, and I doubt that many Britons would recognise a given academic on the street either. Alternatively, they let Dawkins in because they know that he’ll at least save his interminable bellyaching for his next book instead of wasting bandwidth with self-congratulatory blogs :-\

    Assuming that it was an actual liveried policeman who expelled the article author, what this event raises is questions about the legality of that practice – but it doesn’t say anything at all about Creationism or Atheism, except by vague association.

  236. #241 Trent1492
    March 21, 2008

    Voltaire once wrote:

    “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: “O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.” And God granted it.

    …and how.

  237. #242 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Genie Scott points out what will be the NCSE response the the “expelled” trash:

    http://www.expelledexposed.com/

  238. #243 Reed A. Cartwright
    March 21, 2008

    @#457 I believe that PZ did rsvp under his own name with two family members and a guest.

  239. #244 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Why is this thread in a “Creationism” category?

    assuming you aren’t completely oblivious, “Expelled” is a fictional account of how “Intelligent Design” (nothing but repackaged creationism) is being “repressed” and “expelled” from educational institutions.

    It’s all BS, of course, but it IS the latest gasp of the creationists as they continue to drown in all other venues.

  240. #245 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Bad wrote:
    Folks, it’s very unlikely that there was a crime here. Rented private spaces can discriminate, especially based on viewpoints. The story here is about hypocrisy, not illegality.

    Exactly right.

    Ichthyic wrote:
    remember, the world is watching.

    In that case, please do take a listen to NPR’s unretracted Intelligent Design and Academic Freedom by Barbara Hagerty, while noting this NPR piece has not been redacted.

  241. #246 Scott Hatfield, OM
    March 21, 2008

    Congrats, PZ. By logging in at the Apple Store, you managed to beat Kristine, who told me earlier today that something big was in the works, by a good half hour. She has pics, though!

    As I said on her site, this was both hilarious and historic. I hope I hope the dreaded Dr. D points out that he was interviewed under false pretenses. God, I wish I could be a fly on that wall right now. Please tell me some of this is on video.

    (fan boyish) You guys rock.

  242. #247 Sue Larries
    March 21, 2008

    Matt claims “The real marvel is that the IDiots can walk and breathe at the same time.”

    I have met few Creationists, but those I have spent time with most certainly can NOT walk and breathe at the same time, but rather walk, then breathe, then walk again.

  243. #248 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Bad wrote:
    Folks, it’s very unlikely that there was a crime here. Rented private spaces can discriminate, especially based on viewpoints. The story here is about hypocrisy, not illegality.

    Exactly right.

    Ichthyic wrote:
    remember, the world is watching.

    In that case, please do take a listen to NPR’s unretracted Intelligent Design and Academic Freedom by Barbara Hagerty, while noting this NPR piece has not been redacted.

  244. #249 Slaughter
    March 21, 2008

    It might have been funny for PZ to stand there like a 4-year-old and ask why about everything.
    “Sir, you can’t see the movie.”
    “Why?”
    “Because this man says so.”
    “Why?”
    “He makes the rules here.”
    “Why?”
    And so on and so on.
    Since it’s at the 4-year-old level, even IDiots could understand it.

  245. #250 Ralph
    March 21, 2008

    “…what this event raises is questions about the legality of that practice – but it doesn’t say anything at all about Creationism or Atheism, except by vague association.”

    -This event certainly says something about the film’s producers, viz. that they’re cowards and for some strange reason, terrified of the harmless, cuddly man known as PZ Myers.

  246. #251 Susie
    March 21, 2008

    OMFG.
    It has been a long time since I laughed that hard….. hahahaha that’s classic!!!

  247. #252 Alicia Morgan
    March 21, 2008

    It’s perfect, that’s all – simply perfect in its symmetry.

  248. #253 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    This might have been an excellent opportunity for civil disobedience. Just imagine the negative publicity from arresting someone conned into participating in their propaganda film. You could have then taken a cue from the disingenuous and played the role of martyr for all its worth.

    Enlisting the police to try to evict you from the premises when you did not intend to challenge their stupid ban–now that’s really over the top. This is still the United States of America until they pry the Constitution and Bill of Rights from our cold dead fingers! I’m glad you can laugh about this, but for many of us, this is where we would draw the line, especially given the sacrifices that have been made for these rights.

    Makes you kind of wonder if they will ever really release this in April in theaters (ignoring for a moment that some fundies will not go into a theater). They obviously don’t want too much scrutiny until they have whipped the true believer into a frenzy of anger.

    All of this just emphasizes that the individuals behind this film have been more influenced by Machiavelli than their professed master. Not that they are as smart as Machiavelli (evidenced by Dawkin’s success).

  249. #254 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Exactly right.

    glad to see you admitting your own hypocrisy, after only the slightest nudge.

    while noting this NPR piece has not been redacted.

    implying they have redacted others?

    do tell!

  250. #255 abeja
    March 21, 2008

    Coming out of semi-lurkdom to say way to go P.Z.! Can’t wait for the update.

  251. #256 jimmiraybob
    March 21, 2008

    Well Played! Well Played indeed. I will raise a pint of Guinness in your general direction(s) at first chance.

  252. #257 Carl Hutter
    March 21, 2008

    You sound like the coolest professor ever.

  253. #258 Sue Larries
    March 21, 2008

    BTW, this is a fine example of a general principle: Creationists play to win, especially when the game is Russian Roulette: Solitaire.

  254. #259 Protobiochemist
    March 21, 2008

    I will come out of lurking just to say this:

    PZ: YOU WIN BEN STEIN’S MONEY!!!!!!!!

    Funniest Blog Post EVER!

    PBC.

  255. #260 October Mermaid
    March 21, 2008

    This shouldn’t be much of a surprise to anyone. The producers of this movie are just, I mean, wow. They’re stupid as hell. I feel embarassed for them. Heck, I feel embarassed for their families. Can you imagine being related to that sort of thing? Obviously someone took a piss in that gene pool.

  256. #261 Matt
    March 21, 2008

    @ #461: but it doesn’t say anything at all about Creationism or Atheism, except by vague association.

    Neither does your comment. But I’m glad you deigned to join us anyways, Bobby. Glad you came all this way (and wasted a little more precious bandwidth) to complain about a possibly-misused (but not really) label. Well done, sir.

  257. #263 uknesvuinng
    March 21, 2008

    What will the world do without irony meters now that they’ve all been overloaded?

  258. #264 John Pieret
    March 21, 2008

    I suppose you might as well have a look at this. It’s a report of the incident by one of the Kool-Aid drinkers … er, invited guests … at the screening. According to this person, our mild-mannered professor was “hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in.”

    But he also thought:

    Right away, let me just say that this is the Best Documentary of 2008…if it will get played. The basic premise of the movie is that Intelligent Design should be allowed equal footing as a teachable theory within academia. This movie is not an apology for Creation; pains are taken to distinguish Creation from Intelligent Design. This is also not a movie that bashes Evolutional Theory, although many rational arguments are brought up as to the validity of Evolutionary thought as well as the long-term consequences of an Evolutionary Worldview.

    … so judge his objectivity accordingly.

  259. #265 Harmony
    March 21, 2008

    PZ, TRY TO GO TO ANOTHER SCREENING IN A DISGUISE!!!

  260. #266 Ferrous Patella
    March 21, 2008

    I never ever have typed this on the web before but yes, literally:

    LOL

  261. #267 MTran
    March 21, 2008

    Danny continues to delude himself into believing he can think cogently and says: “Anything that is “technically” a crime, is, in fact, a crime” If that were actually true, we would never have been able to found the United States of America.

    WTF? The colonists who initiated and fought in the American Revolution were criminals under British law. They were traitors to the crown. The US was able to continue as a separate sovereign entity because it won the war, not because the actions leading to it were not criminal under British law. Have you heard about “hanging together or all hanging separately?”

    Danny then tries to make sense, but cannot, saying: “Based on your statement, it is like you don’t know how to stand up for own convictions.”

    Are you really an idiot or did you just have an idiot do your writing? You clearly don’t understand what a “conviction” is and the difference between deliberately standing up for one’s own moral convictions and insisting that others act like idiots in order to satisfy your own dimwitted world view.

    Danny claims: “I served two tours in the Persian Gulf on the USS AMERICA in Desert Storm and the following patrols so as far as I’m concerned I have some license in discussing these matters.”

    Why do you think that? What sort of license? Serving as part of an authorized military in support of a governmental action is the opposite of challenging that same authority in the capacity of a mere individual citizen.

    You may have been exposed to some brain damaging chemicals or head trauma during your tour of duty. Try to get some help before the damage becomes untreatable. Though given the way the VA “treats” veteran’s physical and mental health problems, you may be better off in a private facility.

    Finally Danny said: “Thank you.”

    Hey, don’t mention it.

  262. #268 Cuttlefish, OM
    March 21, 2008

    @321–

    When reinventing history
    It’s best to keep the mystery;
    If witnesses are noticed, it is best to take them out.
    And although the act is telling,
    You’d be better off expelling
    Doctor Myers, if you see him, just because the man’s a lout.
    You see, PZ is a witness
    To the movie’s lack of fitness–
    He is one selection pressure that would render it extinct.
    So, with “WANTED!” posters printed,
    To the cinema they sprinted,
    And they passed around the mugshots just as soon as they were inked.
    The policemen, at the ready,
    Kept the ticket-takers steady
    While they watched with eyes like eagles for the devil in disguise.
    Yes! They spotted Dr. Myers,
    Looking just like in their fliers!
    The policemen, quite correctly, gave the doctor a surprise.
    When they said he’d be arrested
    If their actions he protested,
    He complied at once (that should have raised suspicions, don’t you think?)
    Once his actions had been thwarted
    And he left the line, escorted,
    Looking back to his companion in the line, he gave a wink….
    So this little movie trip is
    Like a Trojan Eohippus
    That delivered Richard Dawkins deep within the fortress walls
    I can’t wait to read the story
    Of the battle and the glory–
    Cos the trailer to this feature shows the hero’s got some balls!

    http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2008/03/trojan-myers.html

  263. #269 Danny
    March 21, 2008

    Jeh –

    “This might have been an excellent opportunity for civil disobedience. Just imagine the negative publicity from arresting someone conned into participating in their propaganda film. You could have then taken a cue from the disingenuous and played the role of martyr for all its worth.

    Enlisting the police to try to evict you from the premises when you did not intend to challenge their stupid ban–now that’s really over the top. This is still the United States of America until they pry the Constitution and Bill of Rights from our cold dead fingers! I’m glad you can laugh about this, but for many of us, this is where we would draw the line, especially given the sacrifices that have been made for these rights.

    Makes you kind of wonder if they will ever really release this in April in theaters (ignoring for a moment that some fundies will not go into a theater). They obviously don’t want too much scrutiny until they have whipped the true believer into a frenzy of anger.

    All of this just emphasizes that the individuals behind this film have been more influenced by Machiavelli than their professed master. Not that they are as smart as Machiavelli (evidenced by Dawkin’s success).”

    Exactly my point. Thank you.

  264. #270 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    hey, wallace-

    just for you, I give you the real skinny on whether this was a “private” screening or not, from someone who was there:

    Kristine:

    “Jared,” an employee at the theatre, said that it was because “The producer said that he doesn’t want you here. You don’t have a ticket, and this is a private screening.” Excuse me, this was a private screening that threw itself at you via a link from a website begging “please come and support this film, fill the theatres, wah, wah, we’re victims, please come to our party, you’ll love it, we’re rebels, we’re going to be very naughty!” This was a private screening that was asking for it! Having a showing during an atheist convention? Hello, producer Mark Mathis? Any intelligence allowed?

    I wasn’t invited! I didn’t have to have a ticket! I received an e-mail that stated, “No ticket required.” They were glad to have me, because I’m going to a Catholic grad school, and I have a little Catholic grad school pink notebook in which I took copious notes. Glad to have me, that is, until I started asking about a little film named “Crossroads” (the original title of “Expelled). (Actually, I am willing to accept that Crossroads was a working title. Yes, I do know something about how films are made, Mr. Mathis. I also know something about how they are marketed. CLASSIC FAIL tonight.)

    damn, you guys never fail at an opportunity to shoot yourselves in the head.

    btw, since Scott’s link to the pictures doesn’t seem to work, here it is again:

    http://amused-muse.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-from-expelled.html

  265. #271 aiabx
    March 21, 2008

    Oh-my-lack-of-god!
    Absolutely amazing!

  266. #272 Tom Farrell
    March 21, 2008

    So, some thoughts.

    You should contact the theater – politely, and from a distance – to ask *why* you were refused entry and ordered off the premises. (By letter is best, because it would lead them to reply in writing.) If the answer is something like “we just don’t like your hairdo”, that’s the end of it. If however the answer is because you’re a famous athiest, if they were selling tickets to the showing, then you have grounds for a civil rights complaint against the theater for discrimination on the basis of religion; I’m pretty certain it would be illegal in all 50 states to refuse to serve you to a showing of a movie for which tickets are being sold to the public on the basis of your religion (or lack thereof). And it would make them look REALLY bad to be “discriminating on the basis of religion”.

  267. #273 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Enlisting the police to try to evict you from the premises when you did not intend to challenge their stupid ban–now that’s really over the top.

    we’re still not clear that actual, on duty, police were involved.

    that caveat said, I agree 100%

  268. #274 Azkyroth
    March 21, 2008

    Will someone please “expel” Danny and the other concern trolls? They’re undermining perfect hilarity with their machosturbation.

    Posted about here and I must say this was a lovely anniversary present. :3

  269. #275 Calladus
    March 21, 2008

    I can’t wait to hear how the fundies spin this to not be their fault. Oh my!

    Oh, and I nominate cuttlefish to write any non-holy Atheist texts!

  270. #276 Bachalon
    March 21, 2008

    Cuttlefish, that was magnificent; I had a smile the whole time while reading that to one of my room mates.

  271. #277 Zeno
    March 21, 2008

    I can’t recall. Has any previous Pharyngula post hit the 500 mark in comments before? Certainly not in one short evening.

    We have been virtually present at a historic event.

  272. #278 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    … so judge his objectivity accordingly.

    how do we judge:

    This is also not a movie that bashes Evolutional Theory

    other than what it is?

  273. #279 Dr. Drang
    March 21, 2008

    Most evil-doers get put on a watch list. PZ gets put on a do not watch list.

  274. #280 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    I can’t recall. Has any previous Pharyngula post hit the 500 mark in comments before? Certainly not in one short evening.

    oh yes, many times.

    not this fast, maybe.

  275. #281 October Mermaid
    March 21, 2008

    #489 We don’t say this nearly enough, but.. but.. we love you, Cuttlefish. We honestly love you.

  276. #282 Hemant Mehta
    March 21, 2008

    As hilarious as this story is, I think it just goes to show the power that bloggers can have, even over a 1,000,000+ copy bestselling author!

  277. #283 Chris
    March 21, 2008

    That is hilarious and amazing. I keep reading this post over and over to keep appreciating how great that is.

  278. #284 Scott Hatfield, OM
    March 21, 2008

    btw, since Scott’s link to the pictures doesn’t seem to work, here it is again:

    That’s what I like about this place. Quality control. Thanks, Icthyic!

  279. #285 Heather
    March 21, 2008

    Cuttlefish, that is beautiful! Trojan Eohippus – brilliant!

  280. #286 Scifi Saint
    March 21, 2008

    H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T! That’s funny. Great read.

  281. #287 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    Re: Enlisting the police to try to evict you from the premises when you did not intend to challenge their stupid ban–now that’s really over the top.

    we’re still not clear that actual, on duty, police were involved.

    Granted, maybe it was one of those fake “policeman,” sometimes hard to tell with the costumes the security people wear.

    I’ll rephrase my statement: “Enlisting some thug to try to evict you from the premises when you did not intend to challenge their stupid ban–now that’s really over the top.”

    I’m sure they would have no trouble getting one of their own to play this role. Some of them would have willingly taken PZ outside and given him a wicked beating as well, if they thought they could get away with it.

  282. #288 Sue Larries
    March 21, 2008

    Re: #485

    Note that his review allows no comments. Cowardly fuckwit.

    In other news, water is wet to humans in ordinary baths.

  283. #289 M
    March 21, 2008

    Wow. Stupid doesn’t even begin to describe these people.

  284. #290 Axel Muller
    March 21, 2008

    Quite funny indeed!
    510 comments, that doesn’t happen that often either,
    A.

  285. #291 DaveX
    March 21, 2008

    Well played, PZ!!

  286. #292 ExitB
    March 21, 2008

    I sent a note and link to Al Franken’s Minnesota senate campaign email. I hope he gets it soon. He interviewed Prof. Dawkins once on his Air America radio show. I’d like to hear a comment from him. Hmmm… maybe I should send it to Sen. Coleman too just to be fair.

  287. #293 Tom
    March 21, 2008

    This is the funniest thing I’ve seen all day. They are so incredibly stupid to be even trying to control who sees this junk. Assuming it is junk, no one until tonight with any credibility has seen it…

    :-))) and they let RD walk right in! Ha ha ha ha! ( Thought I was done giggling… I guess not!)

  288. #294 SonOfLiberty
    March 21, 2008

    Proof #947 that Theists are idiots:

    They expel PZ Myers at the Expelled premiere, yet let Richard Dawkins slide right on by.

    No wonder why they think the world is 6000 years old :)

  289. #295 Corey
    March 21, 2008

    Thanks for sharing that … it’s so absurd and hilarious that it makes me dizzy.

    With all due respect, that’s like politely kicking a nun out of an anti-catholic movie showing BUT LETTING THE POPE IN!

    I hope Richard enjoyed the movie. Or at least the popcorn.

  290. #296 Dr Benway
    March 21, 2008

    O hai!

    PZ n Dawkins can haz cookies uf teh Ceiling Cat, who NO WANTS bad moovie.

    kthxbai!

  291. #297 MikeM
    March 21, 2008

    To #503, I would add.

    We’re not trying to make you feel uncomfortable.
    We’re not trying to make you anything at all.
    But these feeling doesn’t come along every day.

  292. #298 CalGeorge
    March 21, 2008

    Time for Ben Stein to hit that blackboard again:

    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.
    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.
    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.
    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.
    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.
    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.

  293. #299 Sue Larries
    March 21, 2008

    Dear M (#511),

    I disagree, since I believe “stupid” IS where one should “begin to describe these people” although I would stop there for only a small, misinformed – big-ass lied to, actually – fraction of them.

  294. #300 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    I’m sure they would have no trouble getting one of their own to play this role. Some of them would have willingly taken PZ outside and given him a wicked beating as well, if they thought they could get away with it.

    ahh, memories.

    :p

  295. #301 zer0
    March 21, 2008

    Way to go PZ! Way to have a more recognizable face than one of the “horsemen”!

  296. #302 Chris
    March 21, 2008

    I was searching to see if Richard Dawkins had posted any sort of reply yet, and I stumbled upon an account by one of the attendees of that screening (http://lookingcloser.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/richard-dawkins-crashes-the-party-at-a-screening-of-expelled/). While he admits that “[Expelled] is the Best Documentary of 2008,” he accounts:

    “I just happened to be standing directly in line behind Dawkins’ academic colleague. Management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in. Management then approached the man, asked him if he had a ticket, and when he confirmed that he didn’t, they then escorted him off the premises. Nowhere was one of the film’s producers to be found, and the man certainly didn’t identify himself.”

    Is this true? Still, kudos to you, Dr. Myers.

  297. #303 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Is this true?

    would you take a serious the word of someone who called ‘expelled’ the “best documentary of 2008″?

    well?

  298. #304 Joshua Arnold
    March 21, 2008

    @524

    It’s not what PZ himself said. And if he didn’t have a ticket, how’d his family get in?

  299. #305 dave
    March 21, 2008

    so, i looked up “irony” in the OED, and found a link to this blog post.

  300. #306 Danny
    March 21, 2008

    ********************************************
    MTran -

    Danny continues to delude himself into believing he can think cogently and says: “Anything that is “technically” a crime, is, in fact, a crime” If that were actually true, we would never have been able to found the United States of America.

    WTF? The colonists who initiated and fought in the American Revolution were criminals under British law. They were traitors to the crown. The US was able to continue as a separate sovereign entity because it won the war, not because the actions leading to it were not criminal under British law. Have you heard about “hanging together or all hanging separately?”

    Danny then tries to make sense, but cannot, saying: “Based on your statement, it is like you don’t know how to stand up for own convictions.”

    Are you really an idiot or did you just have an idiot do your writing? You clearly don’t understand what a “conviction” is and the difference between deliberately standing up for one’s own moral convictions and insisting that others act like idiots in order to satisfy your own dimwitted world view.

    Danny claims: “I served two tours in the Persian Gulf on the USS AMERICA in Desert Storm and the following patrols so as far as I’m concerned I have some license in discussing these matters.”

    Why do you think that? What sort of license? Serving as part of an authorized military in support of a governmental action is the opposite of challenging that same authority in the capacity of a mere individual citizen.

    You may have been exposed to some brain damaging chemicals or head trauma during your tour of duty. Try to get some help before the damage becomes untreatable. Though given the way the VA “treats” veteran’s physical and mental health problems, you may be better off in a private facility.

    Finally Danny said: “Thank you.”

    Hey, don’t mention it.

    ***********

    “WTF? The colonists who initiated and fought in the American Revolution were criminals under British law. They were traitors to the crown. The US was able to continue as a separate sovereign entity because it won the war, not because the actions leading to it were not criminal under British law.”

    Well then, I suppose they shouldn’t have broken the law – is that what you are suggesting? Perhaps the ‘traitors to the crown’ should NOT have stood up for their convictions, or so it seems to you. You really are out of your tree.

  301. #307 Reed A. Cartwright
    March 21, 2008

    The only people that PZ could have been bothering in that line were his friends and family. The UMN-TC student didn’t think that PZ may have been in a group and interpreted the cops removal of him as evidence that PZ was disruptive. The removal of PZ is what disrupted his friends and family, not his presence.

  302. #308 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    How could that be accurate if the movie’s own RSVP page does not mention anything about tickets, and in fact, apparently, the email you get when you RSVP says that tickets are not required? In other words, the claim about not having a ticket is bogus.

    I do find it an amusing image that PZ was supposedly “hustling.” What, was he trying to pawn off zebrafish on unsuspecting theatergoers to make a quick buck? Was he dressed up in a purple zoot suit with dark sunglasses?

  303. #309 Drinker
    March 21, 2008

    I’m dying for more news.

    PZ wouldn’t leave us hanging for hours like this, would he?

  304. #310 articulett
    March 21, 2008

    Gosh, is this more fun than Haggard’s Gay Meth Scandal or what??

    What a glorious day for smart people every where.

    If only PZ would have gotten arrested… documentation or something that he was “forbidden” from seeing the movie…

    Don’t worry, PZ, I’m sure a bootleg copy will find you.

  305. #311 GrondramB
    March 21, 2008

    There’s a limit to how many faces they could have asked an off duty cop to memorize – so its worth asking why do this. They’ve got to be a little irony impaired in the first place to stop anyone from reviewing a movie that is supposedly about suppressing free expression.

    I think Elmo Zoneball of Darwin Central got it right

    “they want to be able to send out a press release the next day proclaiming that “Atheist Zealot Tries to Crash Movie Screening”…. replete with suitable out-of-context quotes mined from his blog, and get lots of free publicity for their stupid movie. The reason they chose PZ Myers was because he lives in Minnesota, and so it was likely he might try to attend the screening.”

    So PZ, you were either brilliant or lucky or both to bring such good backup.

  306. #312 The Flying Trilobite
    March 21, 2008

    #496 Azkyroth;

    I don’t know about that. I totally disagree with Danny on the point of Myers being a coward; I know it would have taken me a lot of restraint to stop from displaying frustration at the guard, so I think Myers was being calm, rational and yes, somewhat brave in a sense to walk away and report on this.

    But I don’t think Danny is wrong to post his opinion on PZ’s behaviour. Or at any rate, he is not so wrong he should be banned. His view seems to be at the extreme end of defending civil liberties using only the avenue of defiance when there were other options.

    Now, maybe being banned for spelling “trilobite” incorrectly (#451, spelled “trylobite”)is something that should be discussed…

  307. #313 Damian
    March 21, 2008

    From the link that John Pieret provided. This seems to be how they are going to spin it:

    “Dawkins asked a simple question: Why was one of his colleagues interviewed in the movie denied a chance to come see this movie and protest it and in fact was escorted out by security prior to admittance to the theatre? The irony apparently escaped Mr. Dawkins that he himself was a gatecrasher to the movie and was uninvited; nevertheless, he wanted to know why his colleague was turned away even though he himself was admitted as were his colleague’s family.

    I just happened to be standing directly in line behind Dawkins’ academic colleague. Management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in. Management then approached the man, asked him if he had a ticket, and when he confirmed that he didn’t, they then escorted him off the premises. Nowhere was one of the film’s producers to be found, and the man certainly didn’t identify himself. If a producer had been nearby, it’s possible that he would have been admitted, but the theatre’s management didn’t want to take any chances.”

    Evidently, even the trained monkeys know how to lie through their teeth.

  308. #314 Dr. J
    March 21, 2008

    “Is this true?

    would you take a serious the word of someone who called ‘expelled’ the “best documentary of 2008″?”

    It would certainly be so unlike creationists, I mean Intelligent design proponent to lie or generally be dishonest.

    Funniest thing I’ve read in a long time – I’m really looking forward to some reviews of the “movie” from the attendees.

  309. #315 Leigh
    March 21, 2008

    I hope to God that PZ, his lovely Trophy Wife, and Professor Dawkins are enjoying a refreshing adult beverage right now, while Skatje has a nice fruit juice and prepares a post detailing the victory.

    Days this delicious come but seldom and should be celebrated.

    PS Cuttlefish, you have outdone yourself!

  310. #316 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Considering that identification was required, and considering that Richard Dawkins was admitted, one wonders if PZ Myers did something to get Expelled as an NCSE architected publicity stunt.

    Clever!

    But the film is still coming out, oh no.

  311. #317 Alexandra
    March 21, 2008

    I’m dying for more news.

    PZ wouldn’t leave us hanging for hours like this, would he?

    Hmm… spend Friday night posting to the blog or hanging out with Dawkins? I know what I’d be doing.

  312. #318 Stanton
    March 21, 2008

    I don’t know what I should feel about this.

    On the one hand, the colossal hypocrisy of the producers of Expelled now borders on lethally stupid, given as how they have made a big song and dance number out of how Intelligent Design proponents are allegedly unfairly barred from mainstream science, but, have also been caught giving written instructions to their trained flunkeys to bar one of their allegedly disgruntled interviewees from watching a screening.

    On the other hand, I’m unsure whether I feel apathetic about their colossal pathetic-ness, or whether I am in so much shock to be bordering on numb.

  313. #319 jimbo92107
    March 21, 2008

    Too bad Dawkins didn’t do the obvious thing, which would be to tell the officer, “This one is okay, he’s with me.”

    Officer: “And you are…”

    “Reverend Dawkins.”

    Jedi mind tricks work on the weak minded.

  314. #320 Jing-reed
    March 21, 2008

    Thanks PZ, you just made my day!

    Already Friday here in Thailand, and you did indeed make it a ‘good Friday’ with this wondrous tale. Can hardly wait for Prof. Dawkin’s reaction.

  315. #321 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Gosh, is this more fun than Haggard’s Gay Meth Scandal or what??

    toss up.

    I mean, Haggard was the leader of the largest evangelical community in the US. that whole debacle was pretty sweet.

    Expelled is just a lame-ass mockumentary.

    still, the irony is just so perfect here, it makes it a toss up in my mind.

    I think the mileage that will be gained from this for good science education will be far more valuable than Haggard’s hypocrisy ever will be, though.

  316. #322 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    But the film is still coming out, oh no.

    But when? The film is still currently “in the closet?” It should be honest about its Christian orientation.

  317. #323 Brian Tristam Williams
    March 21, 2008

    Well. That makes me angry. I would have asked them how much it would cost, per chance, if they had to replace all of their windows.

    But, you know, maybe it was Richard Dawkins they intended to evict, but had trouble telling left from right or something.

  318. #324 Caroline
    March 21, 2008

    OMFSM!! I don’t really have anything to add to the discussion, but when I scrolled down and read “Richard Dawkins”…Hahahahaha! Simply classic.

  319. #325 David Denning
    March 21, 2008

    I can’t wait to read the story
    Of the battle and the glory–

    Hooray for the Myers/Dawkins advanced infiltration team. May we all use this fine example to inspire our own infiltration and confrontation of the IDiot-inspired showings.

  320. #326 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Ichthyic wrote:

    …seriously, if they are actual police officers, they are not acting legally in any sense I am aware of.

    Then, later…

    …we’re still not clear that actual, on duty, police were involved.

    Changing your tune? Glad I could help.

  321. #327 Pierce R. Butler
    March 21, 2008

    The original meaning of “sabot”, iirc, is a wooden shoe worn by peasants in the general area of northern France and the Netherlands up until the early industrial age.

    One method of expressing factory labor dissatisfaction in that era was to toss a shoe into the gears of the biggest machinery accessible: hence the term “sabotage“.

    Tonight Myers was not just a discarded cartridge shell: the more appropriate metaphor would be the modern saboteur’s preferred instrument, the monkey wrench.

  322. #328 Deborah
    March 21, 2008

    That allegedly unbiased review of the movie, posted on on Looking Closer?

    It’s got a spoiler alert at the end, with some text that you have to highlight.

    Here’s the “spoiler” text:

    Many scenes are centered around the Berlin Wall, and Ben Stein being Jewish actually visits many death camps and death showers. In fact, Nazi Germany is the thread that ties everything in the movie together. Evolution leads to atheism leads to eugenics leads to Holocaust and Nazi Germany.

    And the reviewer can’t see how this contradicts his earlier claims about this movie not being about bashing evolution?

    Amazing.

  323. #329 The Flying Trilobite
    March 21, 2008

    It’s weird. I’ve only been blogging online and relatively active making comments twice that long, and I’ve never felt more like there was an online festival or celebration than this one. It’s too good.

    It’s like an unforeseen comet streaking by. Fun times everyone, thanks from this atheistic-gothy-paleonerd-oil painter.

  324. #330 Danny
    March 21, 2008

    “How could that be accurate if the movie’s own RSVP page does not mention anything about tickets, and in fact, apparently, the email you get when you RSVP says that tickets are not required? In other words, the claim about not having a ticket is bogus.

    I do find it an amusing image that PZ was supposedly “hustling.” What, was he trying to pawn off zebrafish on unsuspecting theatergoers to make a quick buck? Was he dressed up in a purple zoot suit with dark sunglasses?”

    Well, but… there WAS NO REASON he could not attend. Some fools here act as if I am some kind of freak but in reality – yeah, reality! he should have stood his ground and dealt it.

  325. #331 Tyler DiPietro
    March 21, 2008

    “Considering that identification was required, and considering that Richard Dawkins was admitted, one wonders if PZ Myers did something to get Expelled as an NCSE architected publicity stunt.”

    Or perhaps, knowing that PZ lived nearby, they circulated a picture among the guards since they had a reasonable expectation that he might show up, while the same was not necessarily true of Richard Dawkins.

    William loses again.

  326. #332 Dale Husband
    March 21, 2008

    That’s one of the funniest blogs I’ve ever read!

  327. #333 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Ichthyic wrote:

    …seriously, if they are actual police officers, they are not acting legally in any sense I am aware of.

    Then, later…

    …we’re still not clear that actual, on duty, police were involved.

    Changing your tune? Glad I could help.

    not at all, the problem is that you can’t read.

    I wasn’t clear then if these were on duty police officers, and I’m still not. Nobody else is either.

    If they were on duty, then the question has to be asked if the city supports its personnel being used in this fashion.

    It’s a perfectly legitimate question.

    Yeah, I know you wouldn’t know what “legitimate” means if it bit you on the ass, but try to pretend I’m not actually responding to you.

    are you ready to admit you were wrong about PZ needing a ticket to get in yet, given that the producers sent out public requests for this screening, as documented by Kristine?

    I know you’ll never admit to being the idiot you are, but seriously, unless you want to become as big a joke as the subject of the thread itself, you should really learn when to quit while you’re behind.

  328. #334 MikeM
    March 21, 2008

    Q: WWBSD?

    A: See above.

    The more I think about this, the more I realize this will be impossible to keep out of the newspaper. As many have pointed out, you were in the movie. Just, wow. They accuse us of censorship? (Yes, I include me in “us” here, because I’m with you all the way.) How about, “You can’t come to see the movie we tricked you into being in?”. They’re not ashamed of this?

    I am laughing, and calling them “stupid” is barely a starting point. How about, “Actionable”, “Lame”, “Unreasonable”? I really want this to be in the news.

    What Would Ben Stein Do? We now have an answer. I can’t wait to see the reponse when he figured out he then let Dawkins in. That is sweet.

  329. #335 MTran
    March 21, 2008

    Danny, apparently imbibing of his own woo says, regarding the American Revolution: ” Well then, I suppose they shouldn’t have broken the law – is that what you are suggesting? Perhaps the ‘traitors to the crown’ should NOT have stood up for their convictions, or so it seems to you. You really are out of your tree.

    Danny, you need to go to a reading comprehension course, followed by a rigorous course in reasoning skills and critical thinking.

    I haven’t suggested anything that any literate, rational person could interpret as saying that the American colonists “should not have broken the law.”

    You were the fool who said that the US could not have been formed if the acts of the rebelling American colonists were criminal acts. I pointed out to you that their acts were, in fact, criminal under British law. The colonists knew full well that they would likely be hanged for treason if they failed in their rebellion. They succeeded.

    Rebels who lose are traitors. Rebels who win are founding heros.

    No one is required to meet your expectations of dumbassed ideological purity through some sort of legal “martyrdom” in the form of precipitating an arrest for a trivial matter.

    Besides, martyrdom is a theistic value, so encouraging an atheist to satisfy some religious aspiration is pretty counterproductive.

    And… I’m glad you are no longer in the active service, I do not want arrogant fools like yourself wielding weapons.

  330. #336 tsig
    March 21, 2008

    You should sue.

  331. #337 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    Nobody thinks you’re a freak, Danny. Now wash your flippers and get some sleep.

  332. #338 Autumn
    March 21, 2008

    I know that I’m late to the discussion, but the ideas that P-Zed would have any grounds to sue, or that he should have protested his exclusion, are ludicrous and juvenile. The proprietor of any establishment is well within his or her rights to call the police to remove a person that they just don’t like. You do not have any right to partake of a public performance simply because you are a member of the public. Many are the times that I have called the police to remove an individual who had commited no crime, but whose presence annoyed me. It is perfectly legal to expel someone from your property for no reason other than “I don’t want (or have been told not to want) to have that person here.”
    That said, the topic at hand is freaking hilarious.

  333. #339 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    But the film is still coming out, oh no.

    Posted by: William Wallace

    Little Willy, no one is trying to stop the film from being released. By tomorrow night, there will be at least a couple of reviews ripping up this film. Most of us will be laughing. We are laughing now.

    When the film comes out, it will have a short run in the theaters and within the month, will be available on DVD to church groups. But here is some good news for you Little Willy, you can package Expelled with your NPR report. Sadly for you, we will still dismiss you. Have fun.

  334. #340 Bob O'H
    March 21, 2008

    The cat in wondering why I’m laughing so hard.

  335. #341 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Amazing.

    You see it enough times, it just begins to numb you. There are a LOT of complete morons in this country.

    “William Wallace” is in fact, representin’ in this very thread.

    oh, the irony.

    It’s just too much; I can’t even manage to squeeze yet more irony out of his usage of the handle “William Wallace”.

    time for beer.

  336. #342 Joshua Fisher
    March 21, 2008

    Next stop: Dawkins and Myers attend a London screening. You can each dress as the other. That would require a shave and some colored contact lenses, PZ. Fortunately, though, no trips to the tanning booth.

    Great story. Cried tears–both kinds.

  337. #343 Terry Karney
    March 21, 2008

    Too damned funny. I was laughing, hooting, and generally confusing the other people in the room.

  338. #344 James Sager
    March 21, 2008

    Not all Creationists agree to how things came about. In my theory, the only thing that I disagree with science is that birds came on the scene before land creatures.

    I believe and I’m backed up scripturally that the days of Creation are not 24 hour periods, but undefined lengths of time that could be hundreds of million or billions of years in length. I feel that Evolution is real and that death was in the world before Adam’s sin.

    I didn’t discuss the issue in full because there isn’t space for it here. If you think you have an issue or question with this reconciliation between Creationism and Science, feel free to email me: James_Sager_PA@yahoo.com

  339. #345 T. Bruce McNeely
    March 21, 2008

    Considering that identification was required, and considering that Richard Dawkins was admitted, one wonders if PZ Myers did something to get Expelled as an NCSE architected publicity stunt.

    Hmmm. PZ Myers does “something” to get himself expelled while accompanying his family and Richard Dawkins
    or…
    the Expelled gang are clueless wankers.

    I know where I’d put my money.

    BTW William Wallace, what “something” do you think Dr. Myers did?

  340. #346 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    it will have a short run in the theaters and within the month, will be available on DVD to church groups.

    save those church groups some money; post the inevitable torrent liberally.

    seriously, if this flick makes no money, we won’t see its like again soon.

    Time for the torrentsphere to contribute something positive!

  341. #347 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    The proprietor of any establishment is well within his or her rights to call the police to remove a person that they just don’t like.

    Oh, I understand now. If a business owner just does not like some person because of their race, he can just call the police to evict them.

    Wow, it’s like the last 40 years never happened.

    Many are the times that I have called the police to remove an individual who had commited no crime, but whose presence annoyed me.

    And then did this for you, Sparky? Would they do this for you if their presence simply made you feel sad?

  342. #348 PZ Myers
    March 21, 2008

    Stuart Blessman, the student at UM who made that claim at the lookingcloser blog, is a liar.

    A shameful liar and a disgrace to the university.

    No, I was not bothering anyone. I went forward and got copies of the form we had to sign to get in, brought them back to my group, and the people in front of us asked me if they could have some, too. That was my only interaction with other people in line.

    Nobody had a ticket. You reserved a seat online, and they checked your name off their list at the front of the line.

    I was not trying to sneak in. I reserved my seats under my own name.

    I was called aside by a security guard, who asked if my name was PZ Myers, and who said that the producer had specifically asked that I be removed.

    We do have some idiots who get enrolled at this university. I like to think that they’re a minority, but I’m rather surprised that someone so ethically challenged is a student here.

  343. #349 MJ
    March 21, 2008

    Perhaps by expelling PZ, they are creating the premise for their next movie, Expelled 2: Expelled from ‘Expelled’. They will interview themselves under the guise of a completely different documentary ploy, blatantly distort and quotemine their own interviews and expel Ben Stein – making way for Expelled 3…

  344. #350 andante
    March 21, 2008

    Best laugh I’ve had in ages. I do believe I must have finally reached the end of the internet.

  345. #351 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Many are the times that I have called the police to remove an individual who had commited no crime, but whose presence annoyed me.

    you mean they were loitering? If so, that’s legit.

    do you have on duty cops hanging around outside your store to prevent the entrance of undesirables?

    that’s not legit.

  346. #352 Danny
    March 21, 2008

    “Danny, apparently imbibing of his own woo says, regarding the American Revolution: ” Well then, I suppose they shouldn’t have broken the law – is that what you are suggesting? Perhaps the ‘traitors to the crown’ should NOT have stood up for their convictions, or so it seems to you. You really are out of your tree.

    Danny, you need to go to a reading comprehension course, followed by a rigorous course in reasoning skills and critical thinking.

    I haven’t suggested anything that any literate, rational person could interpret as saying that the American colonists “should not have broken the law.”

    You were the fool who said that the US could not have been formed if the acts of the rebelling American colonists were criminal acts. I pointed out to you that their acts were, in fact, criminal under British law. The colonists knew full well that they would likely be hanged for treason if they failed in their rebellion. They succeeded.

    Rebels who lose are traitors. Rebels who win are founding heros.

    No one is required to meet your expectations of dumbassed ideological purity through some sort of legal “martyrdom” in the form of precipitating an arrest for a trivial matter.

    Besides, martyrdom is a theistic value, so encouraging an atheist to satisfy some religious aspiration is pretty counterproductive.

    And… I’m glad you are no longer in the active service, I do not want arrogant fools like yourself wielding weapons.”

    I understand and appreciate your point of view. I wish all the best to you and ours. Good luck.

    Danny

  347. #353 Jackson
    March 21, 2008

    What a way to waste an evening, reading comments on Pharyngula. This whole event was truly epic.

  348. #354 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    …son of a bitch, it worked!

  349. #355 Jason Spaceman
    March 21, 2008

    Dawkins Crashes ‘Expelled’ Party

    Mark Moring

    Noted Darwinist shows up uninvited at private screening of Intelligent Design documentary.

    Expelled, a new documentary that argues the case for Intelligent Design from a Judeo-Christian perspective, has been in the headlines lately, prior to its April 18 theatrical release.

    The film, hosted and narrated by Ben Stein, has been screened to invitation-only audiences at churches and for various Christian groups. But several critics have worked their way in to some of the screenings, most notably Roger Moore of The Orlando Sentinel, who recently trashed the movie in his blog.

    A critic of another kind “crashed” a screening in Minnesota on Thursday night–Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion and arguably the most outspoken critic of Intelligent Design and Creationism. Dawkins himself appears in the documentary–but claims he was duped into believing it was going to be an objective account of Darwinism vs. ID.

    Jeffrey Overstreet, a film critic for CT Movies, broke the news on his own blog Thursday night after receiving an e-mail from a college student who was at the screening.

    Stuart Blessman, the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities student, told Overstreet in the e-mail that Dawkins’ appearance “was quite a surprise” to both the audience and associate producer Mark Mathis, who fielded questions afterward.

  350. #356 Drinker
    March 21, 2008

    Some schools have an honor code that would Expell!! the dishonorable Mr. Blessman.

  351. #357 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    “Clever”

    Wallace has exceeded the self-parody threshold.

    No wonder the lights dimmed for moment.

    Ok. Back to reality.

    PZ unquestionably did the right thing by declining to make a scene. Doing so would have played right into their greasy little atheist-smearing hands. I also believe that taking any sort of legal action would be not only fruitless, but more importantly, a missed opportunity to take the high road.

  352. #358 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Would they do this for you if their presence simply made you feel sad?

    no, then it’s time to call Homeland Security.

    :p

  353. #359 FanO'theBUCKS
    March 21, 2008

    Nice work, Doctor.

  354. #360 Captian
    March 21, 2008

    Maybe you can get on Leno or Letterman with this story (or at least Conan O’Brien).

  355. #361 Frak
    March 21, 2008

    photos or it didn’t happen.

  356. #362 Scote
    March 21, 2008

    The proprietor of any establishment is well within his or her rights to call the police to remove a person that they just don’t like.
    Oh, I understand now. If a business owner just does not like some person because of their race, he can just call the police to evict them.
    Wow, it’s like the last 40 years never happened.

    Jeh, what the Expelled producers did was a Hilarious case of clueless and public hypocrisy but it was not illegal in the way you are thinking. Trying to make that point is the wrong one because business are free to discriminate against individuals as long as it is not on the basis of being a member of a “protected” class, such as gender, race, national origin or religion. The producers did not discriminate against PZ based on religion but on the fact that he is an outspoken critic who shines the spotlight of fact-based reason on their alternative reality-based propaganda movie, so it isn’t religious discrimination. The movie was a private screening–since, like vampires, Expelled producers are harmed by the light of day.

    The correct point about the expulsion is the one PZ is making, which is the parody-proof level of hypocrisy, hubris and Keystone Kops cluelessness exhibited by the Producers in their efforts to save their film from being seen by anyone but an equally clueless audience.

  357. #363 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    …son of a bitch, it worked!

    were you using “The Secret”?

  358. #364 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    Calgon?

  359. #365 Jim Howard
    March 21, 2008

    Damn, but I wish I could stay awake for the denouement of this little saga. I guess I’ll have to wait until morning. Great job, PZ!

  360. #366 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    photos or it didn’t happen.

    http://amused-muse.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-from-expelled.html

    there ya go; close as you’re gonna get, anyway.

  361. #367 Alex McQuown
    March 21, 2008

    You were the victim of a crime, PZ. To quote the relevant law:

    TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER II > § 2000a
    § 2000a. Prohibition against discrimination or segregation in places of public accommodation
    (a) Equal access
    All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.

    Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this subchapter if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:

    (3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and …blah blah you get the point. The officer that told you to leave had no legal means to do so.

  362. #368 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    The producers did not discriminate against PZ based on religion but on the fact that he is an outspoken critic who shines the spotlight of fact-based reason on their alternative reality-based propaganda movie, so it isn’t religious discrimination.

    you must have missed the tens of thousands of times these folks have called atheism and “darwinism” religions.

    so many and so consistently, that one could actually make the argument this WAS religious discrimination, using their own definitions.

  363. #369 Koen
    March 21, 2008

    The police listening to a loony church sect. Only in America or soon coming to a theatre near you?
    Not a laughing matter.

  364. #370 Autumn
    March 21, 2008

    @jeh and Ichthyic,
    I am only stating that as the owner of a business I have the right to refuse service to individuals for little or no reason. I am well within my rights to exclude a customer only because I rolled a die, and his number came up. As long as one is not excluded because of a specific class association articulated in statutes, one is only an individual, and it is well within the rights of a manager to say “I don’t like his haircut, please send a cruiser to take him away.”
    I make no judgement as to the morality of this action, but conflating what I said with Jim Crow laws is a low blow.
    And as has been noted in many posts, police officers are very often hired to enforce the whims of particular business owners.

  365. #371 Kristine
    March 21, 2008

    PZ was causing no disturbance, and neither “Jared” nor Mark Mathis made reference to such. Both said that PZ needed a ticket and had to leave because this was a private screening to which he was not invited. I had no ticket, and I was not invited, unless you call posting a link on a “please fill our theatre, tell your friends, da da” website an invitation. In which case, it’s the same “invitation” PZ got.

    At any rate, Mark Mathis lied to me, too. He told me that “Crossroads” was a “working title” for the film. Wesley Elsberry has shown that the domain for Expelled was purchased before all or most of the interviews were done.

    This is just disgraceful.

  366. #372 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Calgon?

    oh, man, are you telling me you missed some good woo?

    http://www.thesecret.tv/

    it was all the rage (read: laughter generating) just last year.

    PZ posted about it on several occasions.

  367. #373 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    This is just disgraceful.

    she said with an evil grin and a shimmy.
    :P

  368. #374 MandyDax
    March 21, 2008

    From that blog post that John Pieret linked to earlier, Stuart puts this at the bottom with a spoiler alert:

    Many scenes are centered around the Berlin Wall, and Ben Stein being Jewish actually visits many death camps and death showers. In fact, Nazi Germany is the thread that ties everything in the movie together. Evolution leads to atheism leads to eugenics leads to Holocaust and Nazi Germany.

    Okay, already new that they try this poisoning the well tactic. Never mind that their “atheism leads to eugenics” is the most flawed of all of these syllogisms.

    Shouts out: <3 to PZ for posting this ASAP and giving me a genuine LOL experience, to Richard for scaring the shit out of Mathis with his mere presence, to Kristine for posting about what went on inside, to Cuttlefish for yet another fantastic topical poem (rhyming Eohippus = brilliant!), and to the people to decided PZ needed removing for breaking my collection of irony detectors.

  369. #375 Susannah
    March 21, 2008

    Whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad. And how!

    I never use this, but what else can be said? – ROFLMBFPAO!

  370. #376 Jarett
    March 21, 2008

    Epic, PZ. PLEASE post about whatever comes of this, I can’t wait to hear Dr. Dawkins’ reaction.

  371. #377 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    These people are brain-damaged.

  372. #378 QED99
    March 21, 2008

    “Photos or it didn’t happen.

    http://amused-muse.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-from-expelled.html

    there ya go; close as you’re gonna get, anyway.”

    No, no. That won’t do. Where are all the missing transitional photos?

  373. #379 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    And as has been noted in many posts, police officers are very often hired to enforce the whims of particular business owners.

    OFF DUTY

    why is it that this is not sinking in?

  374. #380 Mac
    March 21, 2008

    Unbelievable, PZ. Just incredible. I laughed, I cried, I’m waiting for the full recap tomorrow.

  375. #381 propter doc
    March 21, 2008

    Funny, but in a disturbing sort of way. What defense is reason against such ignorance?

  376. #382 Drinker
    March 21, 2008

    If UM Student Stuart Blessman isn’t a lie himself then he will probably become a bit more notorious.

    The only other place HisFlyness has been seen before is also on lookingcloser and a U2 fan site.

  377. #383 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    “I don’t like his haircut, please send a cruiser to take him away.”

    now try doing that every day, and see what kind of official response you get.

    do you think it a good idea to defend the notion that one can abuse tax-paid officials for personal whims?

    just curious.

  378. #384 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    Trying to make that point is the wrong one because business are free to discriminate against individuals as long as it is not on the basis of being a member of a “protected” class, such as gender, race, national origin or religion.

    Hmm, you say it’s OK as long as it is not on the basis of religion? So therefore, technically, PZ’s lack of religion is a legit reason? And if they kicked him out because he was Jewish that would not be OK? Puh-lease.

    So imagine they decided to make a movie based on one of Jack Chick’s vehemently anti-Catholic tracts. Could they legitimately exclude Catholics from a screening that was publicly announced?

  379. #385 MAJeff, OM
    March 21, 2008

    PZ unquestionably did the right thing by declining to make a scene. Doing so would have played right into their greasy little atheist-smearing hands. I also believe that taking any sort of legal action would be not only fruitless, but more importantly, a missed opportunity to take the high road.

    Something I often see missing in discussions of tactic and strategy–in a number of movement forums–is a failure to understand issues of proportionality. PZ getting his ass arrested would have been counterproductive. It was a private screening in that the theater was rented out and people had to sign up in advance in order to get in. They would seem to be legally within their rights to exclude him (anyone ever see those signs that say “We reserve the right to refuse service….” before?). He wasn’t expelled explicitly because of his atheism, (the civil rights issue some might want to raise) but because of his online presence. He would blow their ability to control the message by putting everything out there in a critical, factual review. This just keeps them able to say, “see, he’s complaining about a movie he hasn’t seen” but they didn’t count on Richard Dawkins or PZ’s family or some of the other science blogging folks to get in. The ability to control message is slipping away. Getting arrested would have made PZ look foolish. Instead the whole instance demonstrates the Expelled folks’ ridiculousness (I still think there need to be *jazz hands* in use when ever one says EXPELLED!…I’m imagining a “Just Jack” situation.)

    I see this with certain student–and other–activists as well. Everything requires a protest. Why, they never know, but protest has to happen. Tactics should be proportional to the goal. With Dawkins getting in but PZ left out, while his family and other science bloggers get in(!), really does make them look ridiculous. Getting arrested would have made PZ look ridiculous.

    Now, if RD is going to be on Maher tomorrow (probably by remote?) the story becomes even more widespread, and these idiots look even more ridiculous.

    Dammit! I’ve told myself I’m going to withdraw from so much online time, but this just sucked me back in. Gonna be a weaning process, I can tell.

  380. #386 OzAtheist
    March 21, 2008

    I might not be laughing as hard as you PZ, but I am having a good chortle.

  381. #387 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Has anyone left a scathing comment here yet? Five-to-one sez they’;; never actually appear

  382. #388 Reed
    March 21, 2008

    #559 The proprietor of any establishment is well within his or her rights to call the police to remove a person that they just don’t like.
    Not if the reason they “just don’t like” them is gender, race, color, religion, or national origin. See for example USC Title 42 sec 200

    Now that doesn’t necessarily apply to this incident for several reasons (they could have excluded PZ for other reasons than his [lack of] religion, and this was a vaguely “private” screening despite being open to anyone on the internet), but the general statement that you can exclude anyone from a public establishment (as defined in the link above this includes theaters) for any reason is incorrect.

    Again, I am NOT saying PZ could or should sue. IMO, that would be silly and a waste of effort even if he did have a legal ground.

    The simple fact that the makers of expelled chose to prevent someone who was featured in their movie from viewing a screening is more damaging than any legal action would be.

  383. #389 Morgan
    March 21, 2008

    I have a theory about why you were expelled and Richard Dawkins wasn’t.

    Somebody DID recognize Dawkins, and pointed him out to the guards before going on about some other business. But the guard thought they were pointing at you. The guard thought YOU were Dawkins and kept you out of the film.

    Then, I imagine, the guard was told that Dawkins had to leave immediately. So he found “Dawkins” (you) and booted you out.

    Any number of people may have seen Dawkins and wanted him out–but word spread that he had been dealt with, and by some luck, he made it to his seat without being noticed again. Maybe the reason he wasn’t noticed again is BECAUSE the people who had been waiting for him and worrying believed he was gone–so they stopped looking!

    Funny story either way.

  384. #390 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Again, I am NOT saying PZ could or should sue. IMO, that would be silly and a waste of effort even if he did have a legal ground.

    just to be clear, I’m not either.

    I just want a public issue to be made of the usage of official personnel in this capacity, if indeed ON DUTY cops were used in this case.

    It sounds like it was not the case, however, from witness reports. sounds more like mall guards, which is entirely appropriate:

    private thugs to protect a “private” venue.

  385. #391 Kristine
    March 21, 2008

    The first e-mail:
    “Dear [I used my real name],

    This is a confirmation of your RSVP for the free “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” movie screening. Venue information is below.

    Theater: AMC Mall of America 14
    4th Level, Center of South Ave.
    Bloomington, MN 55425

    Date: March 20
    Time: 7:00 PM

    Number of seats reserved: 2

    YOUR NAME WILL BE ON A LIST AT THE DOOR. NO TICKET IS NEEDED.

    More information about “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” can be found at *link blah blah*
    Sincerely,
    Motive Entertainement

    If you need to cancel or make an important change to an existing RSVP, please email *snip.* Be sure to reference the screening city, date, and time in your email.”

    I received a second e-mail reminder again stating that no ticket was required.

  386. #392 Anthony
    March 21, 2008

    Well, you see Professor PZ Myers has this nice American name and they were obviously confused by the Professor Richard Dawkins with that unintelligible English name.

  387. #393 Dr Benway
    March 21, 2008

    Someone rented the theater for a private party, just as you or I might do. No tickets were sold for money to the general public.

    The people renting the theater can legally exclude anyone they please.

  388. #394 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    “I don’t like his haircut, please send a cruiser to take him away.”

    Wow, you must live in a different part of American than I do. And if the business owner asks the police to kick the sh*t out of them–for good measure–will they do that too?

  389. #395 Amafortas
    March 21, 2008

    PZ,

    Thank you for this. Westborough Baptist is visiting my University this week. (Or to be more accurate, they’ve invaded.) your story restores my faith in reason.

    Cheers

    ~A,

  390. #396 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “Something I often see missing in discussions of tactic and strategy–in a number of movement forums–is a failure to understand issues of proportionality.”

    Abso-damnwell-lutely. And does anyone who so cavalierly suggests protest or legal action know what a pain in the ass getting arrested and/or suing would be? For a stupid movie? PZ will get to see this movie eventually (unless Mathis distributes his picture to every theater in Minnesota, and that would just be ever the more god damned hilarious).

  391. #397 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Dammit! I’ve told myself I’m going to withdraw from so much online time,

    ahh, that explains why I haven’t seen your posts of late.

    good man.

    psst:

    thesis

    :p

  392. #398 StarMan
    March 21, 2008

    This is why most super heroes have a sidekick

  393. #399 Bharat
    March 21, 2008

    That was unbelievable PZ. Congrats for becoming the number 1 public enemy.

    Completely made my day.

  394. #400 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “Has any previous Pharyngula post hit the 500 mark in comments before? Certainly not in one short evening.”

    This is probably the fastest I’ve ever seen, but oh yes, threads have gone over 500 numerous times. Any time Myers invokes Scott Adams, for example. And the time he deliberately baited the global warming deniers, we got over 1300 comments on that one. And the “Ahistorical Garbage” thread might just top that record if we get any more goofballs trickling in.

  395. #401 gunasekaran
    March 21, 2008

    Hi , This is very nice and superb…

  396. #402 Kristine
    March 21, 2008

    Someone rented the theater for a private party

    A “private party,” posted on a public website with a link to click for free admission to these screenings, at which DVDs are distributed with film clips, so that “you can spread the word to the general public”? A “private party,” in which the producer exhorts you to rat on your neighbors and mentions that “we are working with the FBI” to identify “the enemies of this film”?

    Oh, did I mention that they brought up the FBI?

  397. #403 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Dammit!

    Heh. Yeah.

    I miss you, Jeff, but… what Icky said. ;-)

  398. #404 Scote
    March 21, 2008

    Hmm, you say it’s OK as long as it is not on the basis of religion? So therefore, technically, PZ’s lack of religion is a legit reason? And if they kicked him out because he was Jewish that would not be OK? Puh-lease.
    So imagine they decided to make a movie based on one of Jack Chick’s vehemently anti-Catholic tracts. Could they legitimately exclude Catholics from a screening that was publicly announced?

    Jeh, this moment is a great one that exposes the Expelled producers for the irrational screaming hypocrites that they are. Enjoy it! I know I am.

    But you continue to make the wrong point and one not supported by facts or law. For purposes of being in the audience the producers couldn’t care less if PZ is religious or not, they only care if he has credulously swallowed their “freedom to teach the controversy” codswalop. While religious people are far, far more likely to do so than secular people clulessness is not exclusive to creed. This was not a case of religious discrimination and your analogy fails to be analogous. You are overstating your case and, thus, loosing the argument.

    You know those signs that say “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone?” Well, they are **legal** when used in the context of booting PZed. The Epic Fail is the public exposure of they hypocrisy, not the breaking of any law. As to the laws people have cited, those do not apply the same way to “invitation only” private events–and PZed was not discriminated on the basis of being a member of a protected class. While you could argue that the self-selection process of signing up on line functionally made the event public, you still won’t be able to prove that PZed’s **religion** got him booted rather than his outspoken, science-based criticism of the film. Were he credulously supportive of the film, I have no doubt that he would have been allowed in, atheist or no.

    If you are going to argue against irrationality please do so using reason rather than emotion.

  399. #405 MAJeff, OM
    March 21, 2008

    ahh, that explains why I haven’t seen your posts of late.

    And even when I did, I stayed within my field of study….not going too far astray any more (my mind wanders easy)

  400. #406 gunasekaran
    March 21, 2008

    Hi , This is very nice and superb…

  401. #407 Calladus
    March 21, 2008

    Not that I want to speak in their defense, but I’ll go out on a limb an be fair…

    Perhaps the guest list got loaded by practical jokers? It was a web sign-up after all. What sort of verification was put into this? Check on a throw-away email address?

    I could easily see the guy vetting the list …

    “We’ve got 21 ‘Charles Darwins’ and 15 ‘Thomas Huxleys’. And look, 5 ‘Richard Dawkins’. I removed all I found – I just hope one didn’t slip by.”

    “Oh, look, just one PZ Myers! THIS must be for real, after all, the professor lives nearby! Let’s keep a lookout for him!”

    tsk

  402. #408 Anatomie
    March 21, 2008

    Fucking. Priceless.

  403. #409 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    PZ Myers wrote:

    We do have some idiots who get enrolled at this university. I like to think that they’re a minority, but I’m rather surprised that someone so ethically challenged is a student here.

    Wow, PZ…ould you spell out specifically the ideological test you would recommend for admission to the U. of M.?

    Our own Dr. Michael Dini at UofM-Morris.

  404. #410 MAJeff, OM
    March 21, 2008

    I’m not dead! Just posting a lot less. Can’t spend quite so much time doing this shit, when I should be writing about state regulation of marriage and the integration of gay lifestyles into the relations of production and consumption :)~

    This just means you have to show up at the drinking festivities, like this Monday’s Skeptics in the Pub with Mike the Mad Biologist (see skepchick.org for details!)

  405. #411 Drinker
    March 21, 2008

    Liar Stuart Blessman has a blog. http://stu2.blogspot.com/

    It’s just what you’d expect from an ID believer.

  406. #412 Autumn
    March 21, 2008

    To jeh, Ichthyic, and Reed,
    I am not endorsing the action taken in this case, I am, however, respecting the right of individual business owners to prohibit entry onto their premises of whoever they deem undesirable.
    Yes, this means that I support the right of a business owner to not serve me because of my long hair (gone now, but I’ve been refused things because of it in the past). Government services should absoloutly be available to everyone, but if I own a business and decide to not allow men with sideburns into my store, that is wholly legal. It will likely cut into my bottom line, but it is the right of the owner, renter, or manager, to kick out whomever the hell they want to.

  407. #413 scote
    March 21, 2008

    “Well, you see Professor PZ Myers has this nice American name and they were obviously confused by the Professor Richard Dawkins with that unintelligible English name.”

    I’m guessing they let him in because Dawkins looks like a respectable, mild-mannered Episcopalian minister rather than Satan’s Evolutionist. They probably had a Be On the Look Out photo of someone with horns and a pointy tail and a bearded guy with tentacles below the waist. Guess they only spotted the later.

  408. #414 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Kristine wrote:

    Oh, did I mention that they brought up the FBI?

    Wow. I wrote PT-mafia in the sense of an ideological clique. But based on Kristine’s reporting, maybe the term PT-mafia represents something even more sinister than I had recognized.

  409. #415 luis alexandre
    March 21, 2008

    Talk about getting the last laugh…

  410. #416 DBC
    March 21, 2008

    Damn. Even I’ll delurk for this…

    Where are all the folks who attacked PZ for talking about the movie he hadn’t seen yet? I’d like to hear their reactions.

  411. #417 idlemind
    March 21, 2008

    Must be way past your bedtime, “William Wallace,” given your inability to comprehend straightforward English words. Since when does basic ethics — like not telling lies in public — constitute an ideology?

  412. #418 Lee Harrison
    March 21, 2008

    Willy Wally:

    Wow. I wrote PT-mafia in the sense of an ideological clique. But based on Kristine’s reporting, maybe the term PT-mafia represents something even more sinister than I had recognized.

    Wow, Willy boy – you are a real arse.

  413. #419 Scote
    March 21, 2008

    “Wow, PZ…ould you spell out specifically the ideological test you would recommend for admission to the U. of M.?
    Our own Dr. Michael Dini at UofM-Morris.
    Posted by: William Wallace”

    Let’s see. How about people who don’t knowingly make false and defamatory statements about other UofMers?

    Not really and ideological test in the sense you are trying to imply, though, more of an ethical one. You know, the kind that University Codes of Ethics deal with?

  414. #420 MJKelleher
    March 21, 2008

    I couldn’t go off-line until I read and laughed some more.

    My guess on why PZ was bounced but not RD is that PZ made the reservation under his own name, and including unnamed “guests”. Identifications requested to match against the reservation list. They knew PZ was coming, but RD wasn’t anticipated, so he got in under their radar.

    Good work!

  415. #421 Pmomma
    March 21, 2008

    CLASSIC!!!! Not to shoot down your ego, but…how could they possibly recognize YOU and not DAWKINS!?! Was HE not on “the list”? This is just too priceless.

    These people are complete and total hypocrites! How can they sit there with a straight face and argue that secular science is censoring, and “expelling”, an opposing viewpoint, while at the same time censoring and expelling vocal atheists and scientists?

  416. #422 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    It will likely cut into my bottom line, but it is the right of the owner, renter, or manager, to kick out whomever the hell they want to.

    and it’s my right as a taxpayer to say that frivolous usage of police services, if used to obtain your “rights” in this fashion, can and should be frowned upon.

    If actual on-duty police officers were used to guard entrance into a fucking FILM, then I call that frivolous usage of a public service, and I want to know how the city that employs such officers feels about it.

    clearer?

  417. #423 Jim
    March 21, 2008

    He said ethically, not ideologically challenged, WW. Another idiot-admit for UM, I see. Get to class much?

  418. #424 Azkyroth
    March 21, 2008

    Wow, PZ…ould you spell out specifically the ideological test you would recommend for admission to the U. of M.?

    Our own Dr. Michael Dini at UofM-Morris

    Is Mr. Wallace actually suggesting that the existence of a policy on academic integrity, academic honesty, and student conduct is some sort of oppressive requirement? Are Christians really that morally stunted?.

  419. #425 Kristine
    March 21, 2008

    You want to clarify that statement regaring me, William Wallace?

  420. #426 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Wallace again exceeds the self-parody threshold! He’s going for the record tonight.

    Kristine: “…the producer exhorts you to rat on your neighbors…”

    Are you serious?

  421. #427 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Wow, Willy boy – you are a real arse.

    I warned him, but like all creobots, they just can’t help but shoot themselves in the head.

    It’s just making this whole thing all the sweeter, to see the irony that is “expelled” being accurately reflected in the posts of the very people who support it.

    It’s like when you look at two mirrors, held up to each other, and you see endless reflections….

  422. #428 scott
    March 21, 2008

    If I were in this situation I would never consider suing the producers of Expelled, but I would think about suing Stuart Blessman for his “a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in.” As I read his words, they come pretty close to be libelous, if “a man” is legally sufficient to connect his statement to an individual.

  423. #429 Damian
    March 21, 2008

    Stuart Blessman, the lying, backtracking troll says (on “looking closer”):

    “Yes, you registered online, but the initial invitation was by invite only. You registered who was coming in your invited group, not just “first come, first serve.”

    And since I was literally 3 feet away from Myers when he was “expelled,” I heard every word. It was obvious he was being kicked out by theatre management because he was not invited nor was he on the pre-submitted list. He didn’t cause a disruption per se; he was kindly escorted out.

    In fact, Dawkins himself acted as a perfect gentleman during the Q&A. He was respectful of everyone present, even though he was a little upset about Myers and his own role in the film.

    And, Peter, Mathis didn’t mention any details about a press release or finished cut.

    One final comment or reflection – Having Dawkins show up in the theatre felt like the equivalent of having President Bush show up after a screening of Fahrenheit 9/11. It was that odd and yet exciting.”

    The baby Jesus is in floods of tears, the poor little guy.

  424. #430 Joseph Hewitt
    March 21, 2008

    Too funny. This is an anecdote to keep for the ages.

  425. #431 Autumn
    March 21, 2008

    Note that I agree wholeheartedly with laws defining discrimination against various classes of folks illegal.
    All I am saying is that “undesireable” is subjective, and thus open to exclusion.
    Trying to prove that one has been excluded for a particular reason is damn-near impossible.
    I am in no way endorsing such behavior, I am merely reminding you that the waitress who keeps the local asshole from coming back to the bar is relying on the generous interpretation of exclusion to keep an undesireable out.
    I may be wholly missing what I am trying to say, and if that is the case, I apologise.
    I seem to be misconstrued more often than not, but I’m married, so its become old-hat.

  426. #432 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    A “private party,” in which the producer exhorts you to rat on your neighbors and mentions that “we are working with the FBI” to identify “the enemies of this film”?

    Oh, did I mention that they brought up the FBI?

    Posted by: Kristine

    An enemies list!?! This just gets better and better. It should not come as any surprise, given Ben Stein’s past employment, that their is a list of “enemies of the film”. How Nixonian.

  427. #433 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    If actual on-duty police officers were used to guard entrance into a fucking FILM, then I call that frivolous usage of a public service, and I want to know how the city that employs such officers feels about it.

    Could you put this to rest. At worst, this was a moonlighting police officer whose wages were paid by a private party. At best, it was just a security guard.

  428. #434 Godstomper
    March 21, 2008

    According to this website
    (http://lookingcloser.wordpress.com
    /2008/03/20/richard-dawkins-crashes-the-party-at-a-screening-of-expelled),

    PZ was removed for being disruptive and not having a ticket. It also states none of the producers were there. I’d seriously like to know what happened.

  429. #435 Tyler DiPietro
    March 21, 2008

    Before I head, I just have to mention that I love the sight of William Wallace acting as the sole defender of the ID crowd after this massive Leroy Jenkins moment. He kind of reminds me of the last Japanese soldier, fighting on even though the war is over. Or in this case, even though the huge, irreversible public humiliation of his confreres has already taken place.

  430. #436 Stuart Blessman's blog
    March 21, 2008


    Tell me if this statement is troublesome – “What do atheists and the Grinch have in common?”

    This is what we wrote on the whiteboard at the contact table today, including a very well drawn picture of the Grinch. Yesterday we had “Communists and the Grinch.” (I think we should go for broke and write “Atheists, the Grinch, and hundreds of millions dead”) This seemingly innocent question seems to pack a lot of heat. Grant, a former atheist, came up with it.

    “That statement is horrible! It really offends me! I’m gonna go report you to the campus union, you shouldn’t be saying such things on public property! Your grammar is incorrect (we had “does” originally). You are turning away people with statements like that; they can’t find Christ because of you! You should change it to “Jews and the Grinch”, that would make more sense. It’s an unfair comparison that presupposes things. You aren’t Christian, you aren’t showing Christ’s love!” Etc etc, just a handful of the things I heard at the table during 45 minutes.

    Is that statement really that troublesome? Or do most atheists have such shaky convictions that the littlest thing offends them? We had one guy stop to argue the question (he acknowledged it was a question!), and I asked him if atheism was a religion. To his credit and to my surprise, he answered “yes.” It took me back. We then asked if he was an atheist, and he stormed off after telling us it was none of our business. Still, I’m proud of the guy, and I told him so.

    …. More at Lying Student Stuart Blessman’s Blog http://stu2.blogspot.com/

  431. #437 Azkyroth
    March 21, 2008

    Could you put this to rest. At worst, this was a moonlighting police officer whose wages were paid by a private party. At best, it was just a security guard.

    Feel free to document this claim any time you like, jackass.

  432. #438 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    @autumn

    I am in no way endorsing such behavior

    fair enough.

    @wally gator:
    At worst, this was a moonlighting police officer whose wages were paid by a private party. At best, it was just a security guard.

    and you know this… how?

    the same way you KNEW PZ had “done something wrong”?

    how you can keep going when everyone is laughing at your idiocy is just remarkable.

  433. #439 Kristine
    March 21, 2008

    Are you serious?

    Yes, I am serious. After telling us that “some group” was trying to video the entire film (which I might add is not on 35mm film but is a crappy laptop feed) to post on torrent, he told us to look around at our neighbors to see that no illegal activity was going on.

    Nomad also went a day or so ago – read his account at the “Expelled” thread at After the Bar Closes.

  434. #440 John C. Randolph
    March 21, 2008

    Well, the name of the movie says “no intelligence allowed”, so PZ shouldn’t have expected to be allowed in.

    -jcr

  435. #441 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Or do most atheists have such shaky convictions that the littlest thing offends them?

    says the person who supposedly watched PZ get physically removed from a screening of the movie…

    oh fuck, what’s the point.

    It’s just to funny. My irony meter is beyond busted, and the overflow is starting to hurt.

  436. #442 Trent1492
    March 21, 2008

    Stuart Blessman is on the “Looking Closer” blog right now, digging himself deeper into a pit of lies.

    http://tiny.cc/FKr8K

  437. #443 Nic Nicholson
    March 21, 2008

    LOL, PZ Myers denied entry on the basis of (lack of) religion.

    Funny, funny, fundies.

  438. #444 octopod
    March 21, 2008

    #630, what on earth does the quoted post have to do with your reply to it?

    PZM: “Boy, I sure think our students are largely a bright and ethical bunch! I suppose there are always a few dim ones, but I haven’t met any real scumbags. Go figure.”
    WW: “Ideological purity test, you say? Tell me more!”

    Also, wasn’t the Dini thing about him not wanting to write recommendations for students who totally failed to grasp the point of his class? Why on earth did a creationist ask an evolutionary biology prof for letters of recommendation, anyhow? Isn’t that kinda like a flat-earther asking a geophysics professor for a recommendation?

  439. #445 Lance
    March 21, 2008

    I’ve read but never commented before. This warrants a change. I laughed pretty hard. I shared it with my girlfriend and she laughed too. After reading some of the comments on here about them trying to remove Dawkins, I wonder if it might be funnier if they let him stay. I’d love to see the looks on everyone’s faces once the lights come on and they see him standing there. Now THAT could be priceless.
    Oh yes, and the, “That’s not what I meant!!” could be funny too. Maybe just a, “Wrong!” here and there plus the above idea I had. Sorry, now I’m rambling. So funny I can’t think straight.

  440. #446 Azkyroth
    March 21, 2008

    I hope someone is preserving screencaps or PDF versions or something of the Looking Closer post(s)…

    You know IDiots and their memory holes.

  441. #447 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Yes, I am serious. After telling us that “some group” was trying to video the entire film (which I might add is not on 35mm film but is a crappy laptop feed) to post on torrent, he told us to look around at our neighbors to see that no illegal activity was going on.

    it must have been the overwhelming paranoia that attracted Stein to these folks to begin with, just like it attracted him to Nixon.

  442. #448 Thomas S. Howard
    March 21, 2008

    OK, so let’s recap what we know of the Designer:

    Likes: Atheist Biologists, Beetles, Hydrogen

    Dislikes: Erstwhile Nixon staffers, Discovery Institute, Hypocrisy

  443. #449 Bob
    March 21, 2008

    Wow, just wow.
    I cannot wait to see how they spin this one.

  444. #450 Sue Larries
    March 21, 2008

    One string of invective, please.

    Willy Wallace – you are a humorless, smugly stupid shit and fully deserve to be a coward Xian fuckwit you are, you soul-less shit of a trolling ass.

    I pity to the bottom of my heart whatever family is connected to you, in any way,and anyone who has the misfortune to work with or near you shape or form.

    Enjoy that parody you call your life, even if it isn’t amusing, except in the sickest, saddest way.

  445. #451 CS
    March 21, 2008

    http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2008/03/dawkins_crashes.html
    March 20, 2008 11:42PM
    Dawkins Crashes ‘Expelled’ Party

    Mark Moring

    Noted Darwinist shows up uninvited at private screening of Intelligent Design documentary.

    Expelled, a new documentary that argues the case for Intelligent Design from a Judeo-Christian perspective, has been in the headlines lately, prior to its April 18 theatrical release.

    The film, hosted and narrated by Ben Stein, has been screened to invitation-only audiences at churches and for various Christian groups. But several critics have worked their way in to some of the screenings, most notably Roger Moore of The Orlando Sentinel, who recently trashed the movie in his blog.

    A critic of another kind “crashed” a screening in Minnesota on Thursday night–Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion and arguably the most outspoken critic of Intelligent Design and Creationism. Dawkins himself appears in the documentary–but claims he was duped into believing it was going to be an objective account of Darwinism vs. ID.

    Jeffrey Overstreet, a film critic for CT Movies, broke the news on his own blog Thursday night after receiving an e-mail from a college student who was at the screening.

    Stuart Blessman, the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities student, told Overstreet in the e-mail that Dawkins’ appearance “was quite a surprise” to both the audience and associate producer Mark Mathis, who fielded questions afterward.

    Blessman reported that Dawkins asked several questions, and complained that “any statement he made in the film was in fact under the assumption that he was being interviewed . . . for a film that was to take an even-handed look at the Intelligent Design/Evolution controversy.”

    It’s not the first time Dawkins and other Darwinian experts say they were duped by the filmmakers. The Guardian reported last fall that Dawkins said, “At no time was I given the slightest clue that these people were a creationist front,” he said. And The New York Times quotes Dawkins and other atheists who appeared in the film under a “deceptive invitation.”

    Blessman also wrote that “the Q&A then proceeded pretty uneventfully, with several of the questions addressed to Dawkins himself. Mathis and Dawkins also clearly had spoken on numerous occasions and appeared to continue an argument that they had started previously.”

    Read more about Expelled in earlier editions of Reel News at CT Movies.

  446. #452 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Well. Time for bed. Kristine, thanks for sharing all this interesting information. This really puts the “qzzyx” in “surreal”.

  447. #453 blf
    March 21, 2008

    Brilliant! Fecking brilliant!

    One possibility (of several) I don’t recall seeing mentioned about asking Pee Zed to leave and not Dawkins: Dawkins was also on (completely legal) banned list, perhaps even had his picture circulated as well, and the staff simply failed to recognise him.

    The alleged Q&A session afterwards doesn’t prove “they” knew beforehand that Dawkins was present. Given how fast this aim-at-both-feet, shoot-the-full-clip has spread on the interwoos, a reasonable hypothesis is someone(s?) spotted the story and made a few calls. Just like people tried to contact the media. (B.t.w., did any media types show up?)

    And, as I think it was Martin who said (paraphrasing), would the people yapping about suits et al. get a fecking clew!

  448. #454 Nullifidian
    March 21, 2008

    You should have allowed yourself to be arrested. You were to commit no crime at all. Please don’t show courage on the web only to show cowardice in real life. Is this how you stand up for what you believe?

    This is the most ignorant, dick-waving bullshit I’ve seen in an age. I have been arrested before, and it’s not a lot of fun, particularly when being warehoused in a toxic environment like Pier 57 in New York City during the 2004 RNC protests. There is absolutely no reason on this earth why PZ should have let himself be arrested over a stupid creationist movie. Leaving himself free to post about their refusal to admit him, with the cherry on top being that Dawkins was allowed in, is the exact right way to handle it.

    If I didn’t think it was utterly pointless to try this strategy, I would think you’re an agent provocateur, because it would play right into the hands of the creationists if they were to be able to report that a Darwinist was so intent on crashing (and, it would be inferred, disrupting) the movie that he had to be hauled off in handcuffs. There is a time and a place for that kind of thing, and this was not it.

  449. #455 Nomad
    March 21, 2008

    I recently went to one of the screenings as well, perhaps I can add a clarification. In my case we had a hired thug wearing a police uniform present as well. Despite the fact that the cop left his police cruiser parked immediately outside the entrance to the theater, instead of in the parking lot like a normal person might, and also despite the fact that he was wearing his full police uniform, he was described to us as being an off duty officer.

    I expect that the officer who showed PZ out was also off duty. I was not aware that they get to use their cruisers and full uniforms and are allowed to park in no parking zones when doing mercenary work, but apparently they do.

    The problem I have with this is that PZ was forced out of the entire theater, not simply denied access to the screen that was rented out for Expelled. I assume that they would have had to have the operator of the theater ask the cop to do that, the Expelled people have no right dictating who may or mat not be present in the entire theater. Unless I’m mistaken and they actually did rent out the entire theater building and every screen within.

    And I’d expect that the theater operator would prefer not to do that, I’d expect bad it to be bad publicity if they’re shown strong arming people out of their business as a result of pressure from religiously motivated individuals.

    I think I know how Dawkins got in without setting off alarms in advance, but just in case I’m right and the same concept may be employed again I’ll refrain from blowing it (although it’s easy enough to figure out). If those involved wish to spill the beans, though, I’d like to know if I’m right.

  450. #456 Azkyroth
    March 21, 2008

    Holy shit, are the Looking Closer and Christianity Today blogs really using THE EXACT SAME TITLE?

    lol…

    PS: take a look at the comments policy on Jeffrey Overstreet’s site for extra humor.

  451. #457 Marcus Pittman
    March 21, 2008

    I think it is great…Why would any “Rational” person want to see our “creationist propaganda” anyway…it’s funny. You won’t let us teach it in school’s, so we finally get to Kick you out.

    As for Dawkins, who refuses to take part in any debate or think using his own individual thoughts, or answer any tough questions regarding his obvious religion, Were delighted that he finally took the time to challenge his faith.

    Nice turn of events and we get some amazing publicity. The “Producer” knows what he is doing…

    +1 Creationist.

  452. #458 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    PS: take a look at the comments policy on Jeffrey Overstreet’s site for extra humor.

    sorry, already on irony overload.

    must – drink – beer…

  453. #459 Form&Function
    March 21, 2008
  454. #460 Form&Function
    March 21, 2008
  455. #461 MAJeff, OM
    March 21, 2008

    The problem I have with this is that PZ was forced out of the entire theater, not simply denied access to the screen that was rented out for Expelled

    Good point. I’m sure 10,000BC was playing.

  456. #462 Zachary B.
    March 21, 2008

    My mouth literally just gaped open when I read Richard’s name.

    Well played P.Z. Well played.

  457. #463 Russell Seitz
    March 21, 2008

    Positively Illuminating PZ– so much so that I up and
    Illuminated it for the benefit of posterity– the producer’s conduct is so epically stupid that this episode deserves a mosaic in the Cathedral Of Dumb:

    http://adamant.typepad.com/seitz/2008/03/the-bayeaux-tra.html

  458. #464 Godstomper
    March 21, 2008

    Never mind my last comment. I came across new information claiming that Blessman lied.

    “Is that statement really that troublesome? Or do most atheists have such shaky convictions that the littlest thing offends them?”
    The problem isn’t that they attacked someone’s views, but rather that they endorsed a baseless stereotype. Besides, your whole story sounds made up and calling atheism a “religion” is just playing word games. Call atheism whatever you like, but know that when religion is criticized, the critics are referring either to a belief system taken on faith or a belief (or beliefs, more precisely)in supernatural ontological claims.

    Regardless of how you define “religion,” or any other word for that matter, you still need to address the arguments themselves. If there was evidence for the existence of god(s), that would justify theism. If there was evidence against it, that would justify weak or strong atheism, depending on the strength of the evidence. If evidence was absent either way, then atheism, defined simply as an absence of belief, would be justified. Redefining words cannot change the evidence nor how it is evaluated for any proposition.

    My arguments do not unfairly attack religion, but instead treats its claims as you would any other for the sake of logical consistency.

  459. #465 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Nice turn of events and we get some amazing publicity. The “Producer” knows what he is doing…

    yeah, if he running a “twit of the year” contest is what he was after.

    here, this is last year’s:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSqkdcT25ss

    you might want to participate in the next one yourself!

    oh wait…

  460. #466 momo
    March 21, 2008

    perfect!!!

    and, did Richard enjoy it?

  461. #467 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    Ichthyic, that is the film we use for Jerry. I do not thing I have to finish the rest of that statement.

  462. #468 Pantufla Milagrosa
    March 21, 2008

    I say we all chip in for PZ’s $10 ticket to watch the movie when it comes out!

  463. #469 T&A
    March 21, 2008

    That is hilarious! If this doesn’t prove how dimwitted these creationist are, I don’t know what will!

  464. #470 T&A
    March 21, 2008

    That is hilarious! If this doesn’t prove how dimwitted these creationist are, I don’t know what will!

  465. #471 paul
    March 21, 2008

    atheism cured my ADD!!, i just read every comment.

  466. #472 Leigh
    March 21, 2008

    @Marcus Pittman(#667):
    “I think it is great…Why would any “Rational” person want to see our “creationist propaganda” anyway…it’s funny. You won’t let us teach it in school’s, so we finally get to Kick you out.”

    Dude! What’s with the random capitalization, grotesque misspelling, and (ahem) idiosyncratic punctuation? In our “school’s”, indeed!

    We won’t let you and your ilk teach biology for the same reason we won’t let you teach English. You know nothing, and your ignorance would be contagious.

    But what’s even worse is what you *think* you know, because it’s all wrong. That’s not just clueless — it’s dangerous.

  467. #473 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    I do not thing I have to finish the rest of that statement.

    heh.

    nope.

    It just had to be put somewhere in this thread, for posterity’s sake.

    I mean, what the Expelled folks pulled off would most surely win them that contest, hands down.

  468. #474 Tam
    March 21, 2008

    I have to admit, even though Dawkins feels much more famous than Myers to me (duh), I don’t know what he looks like (at least until I saw the loldawkins above), and I would recognize ol’ PZ. Go figure.

  469. #475 Madwack
    March 21, 2008

    I am amazed about the lightheartedness with which you tell us that for absolutely no reason you are refused entrance to a cinema, enforced by a police officer.

    Am I reading this correctly? You have to sign in and show I.D to go and watch a movie? F*** me, and I thought Europe was already bad..

  470. #476 Thomas S. Howard
    March 21, 2008

    Do the Darwin Awards have some category for stuff like this besides “Honorable Mention”? Like “Special Achievement in Abject, Humiliating Stupidity without Loss of Life or Injury”, say? ‘Cause they should, at least this once.

  471. #477 paul
    March 21, 2008

    Damn it, I think I need a new name to post under, I’m not the paul that was cured of ADD by atheism. Funny comment though.

  472. #478 Nullifidian
    March 21, 2008

    It’s like the old adage – ‘They came for the Jews/Xians/Zoasters and I did nothing…’ They came for the Atheist and he did nothing.

    Danny, Danny, Danny, Danny….

    That is not just an old adage; it is a poem from Martin Niemöller. It is written in response to a historical incident you might have heard of called the Holocaust. By referencing it to use against Dr. Myers, you are inverting the sense of the poem from a cry of regret of a not-so-innocent bystander to use it against the victim. If they came for the Atheist and he did nothing, then it is appropriate to say, mutatis mutandis, of the Holocaust that they came for the Jews, the Roma/Sinti, the anarchists, the communists, etc. and they did nothing. This is the most disgusting and distasteful way of registering your disagreement with Dr. Myers that I can think of.

    So my advice to you would be just go fuck off before you make an even bigger arse of yourself than you have done already.

  473. #479 Sharilyn
    March 21, 2008

    Re: #610
    Instead the whole instance demonstrates the Expelled folks’ ridiculousness (I still think there need to be *jazz hands* in use when ever one says EXPELLED!…I’m imagining a “Just Jack” situation.)
    OMFSM!!!! LMAO! STOP it! I have been laughing so hard through the last few hours I just got my sides to stop hurting! The Just Jack and Jazz Hands reference was entirely TOO IMMEDIATELY VISUALIZED!! ROFLMAO while reaching again for my Albuterol.

  474. #480 Robster, FCD
    March 21, 2008

    Posting in an epic thread…

    lulz were had by all

  475. #481 Reed
    March 21, 2008

    @CS #671
    That was linked earlier in the comments. I posted a comment there, but unsurprisingly, it has yet to show up.

    @Autumn
    I agree that you have to be able to throw out undesirables. All I was trying to do is point out that there are limits as to what criteria you can use to decide someone is undesirable. Unless the expelled people had a policy of excluding people based on their religious views, they are well within their rights. Even if that was their policy, they might be OK due to the supposed “invite only” nature of the event.

    @madwack
    It was a “private” event (read up for details, that’s debatable but it wasn’t your regular buy a ticket and watch showing), and even regular theaters have the right to refuse service to anyone (as long as it isn’t based on race, religion etc.) Same reason a bouncer can throw you out of a bar.

  476. #482 Nepal123.com
    March 21, 2008

    Well, I am not laughing as hard you are and all these stupid fans that are laughing hard…. just coz YOU had some special guest to watch the movie for you??

    And then you are HAPPY … ??

    Lets not talk about ur guest now… or your family… .. .. its not cool that they kicked you out.. of a public theatre??

    Did this happen in America or some Hindi movie??? and then this stupid professor is all smiling that he had some dude watch movie with his family??

    Co-coincidentally he had this popular guy… watch movie with his family…. and he was out typing a blog… while .. according to the constitution….. there was no reason to kick him out of the hall…

    and being an american…. he did not ask to the COPS why.. coz ofcourse .. it was an illegal threat… that he was given… sad…

  477. #483 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    That was linked earlier in the comments. I posted a comment there, but unsurprisingly, it has yet to show up.

    there is a two link max limit if you want to avoid the comment being held for examination.

    helps eliminate spam.

    you can spread more than two links across multiple posts, however.

  478. #484 Soapy Sam
    March 21, 2008

    That’s so good it almost makes me believe there IS a god!

  479. #485 GrondramB
    March 21, 2008

    Stuart Blessman:

    “So ultimately Dawkins’ first complaint was irrelevant. His second complaint was that any statement he made in the film was in fact under the assumption that he was being interviewed by Ben Stein (and by Mark Mathis) for a film that was to take an even-handed look at the …

    Well, that’s the good news. No science minded person is likely to ever again be interviewed by Ben Stein under the assumption that it will be even handed.

    Mrs. Garrison will have more credibility going forward than Stein.

  480. #486 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    Worst. South. Park. Ever.

  481. #487 Pom
    March 21, 2008

    I didn’t realise you lived in Nazi Germany

  482. #488 Quasarsphere
    March 21, 2008

    Soapy Sam: “That’s so good it almost makes me believe there IS a god!”

    Well, I’m starting to think there may well be a Loki!

  483. #489 iPhone Hellas
    March 21, 2008

    Great Story! ILMAO :-)

  484. #490 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    “You won’t let us teach it in school’s, so we finally get to Kick you out.”

    —Let’s stipulate that you idiot god-botherers are actually much better, nobler, and more honest people than we evil science types, and also that we are determined to not let you teach your creationist silliness in “school’s.” The problem you face is that YOU are the ones that say that educators should “teach the (manufactured) controversy.”

    If that is the case, then why don’t you sort of, uh, practice what you preach, and let us come into your churches and teach science. After all, it’s the only way to teach that controversy since we already stipulated that we won’t let you do it in schools. Yet, I have yet to hear of any churches that teach real science classes. Why, pray tell, is that? Could it be because you are actually, you know, hypocrites and liars?

    By the way, many, if not most of us, are more than willing to let your nonsense be discussed in religion classes, philosophy classes, in mythology, anthropology and sociology classes, it’s just that we are not willing to permit you to parade your superstition as scientific data that is supported by any evidence.

    And you obviously don’t know very much about what goes on inside of a real school anyway, based upon your abysmal lack of literacy.

  485. #491 GrondramB
    March 21, 2008

    Worst South Park ever has to go the Virgin Mary episode although most recent Britney Spears episode may well have been the least funny.

    Dawkins’ response to the episode shows he has real sense of humor and is a good sport.

  486. #492 Leigh
    March 21, 2008

    @Milo (#715)

    And by the way, Marcus, there IS no controversy — at least among those of us in the reality-based community. We’ve actually studied the scientific evidence (at least some of it . . . there are so many thousands of peer-reviewed papers that no one could read them all), and we don’t embrace willful ignorance.

  487. #493 Reed
    March 21, 2008

    @Ichthyic
    I meant my comment on the Christianity Today blog had not appeared. What I was trying to say is that blog was linked here earlier (back at comment 580), and I attempted to comment on it.

    Should my comment be Expelled from there, I’ll CC it over on ATBC.

  488. #494 Michael X
    March 21, 2008

    Aw, Marcus. Really? That kind of reasoning makes me think you arn’t even trying. At least put some effort into handwaving.

    So, yes, why should we want to watch, and then dissect and demolish a propaganda movie that attempts to disable science and do massive educational damage by purporting that evolutionary theory is false? Boy, I just can’t figure out why anyone would want to waste the effort. So, I guess it isn’t true that you’ve shown abundant arrogance propped up by impressive ignorance. Well done.

    EPIC FAIL Creationist. You’re so wrong, you’re not even playing.

  489. #495 Reed
    March 21, 2008

    Very interesting, my comment has not appeared, but the post at http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2008/03/dawkins_crashes.html
    has mutated been intelligently modified to include links to this post and PZs most recent one.

  490. #496 Horwood Beer-Master
    March 21, 2008

    Yesterday my job came to an end and I became freshly unemployed…

    …Today I couldn’t give a shit about employment – this is bloody hilarious!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks Richard and PZ (and the numbskulls at “Expelled”) you’ve made my day.

  491. #497 FloridaAnon
    March 21, 2008

    Also posting in an Epic thread.

    Shorter PZ Myers (winner of an internet): “I got kicked out for the lulz.”

  492. #498 Eruvadhril
    March 21, 2008

    *laughs and laughs*
    Well done, sir.

  493. #499 Dave Bell
    March 21, 2008

    Probably too late now, but, from my own experience, I suspect you have to spoonfeed the media. However smart and clever the journalists you know personally, you have to sell the story to a system.

    Which means you need to throw in lines such as “Professor Richard Dawkins, Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, England”. It means you should consider the structure of an AP story, which puts the core in the first paragraph (for several reasons).

    Amd, yes, the key point is that you’re not being allowed to see the film you were interviewed for. Letting Richard Dawkins in just adds to the win, but it could distort the story. It would be easy to muddy the waters with academic status issues.

  494. #500 scote
    March 21, 2008

    Funny, my comment hasn’t appeared on CT either, even though the post has been updated since my post :-)

    However, the article still claims that “Jeffrey Overstreet, a film critic for CT Movies, broke the news on his own blog Thursday night after receiving an e-mail from a college student who was at the screening” Even though Overstreet wasn’t informed of the event until **after the screening**. Whereas PZed “insta-blogged” about it during the screening. But then why should facts get in the way of a Christianity Today story…

    BTW, I think one of the reasons that blowhard Stuart Blessman tried to claim that PZed was bothering “invited” attendees standing in line was that it didn’t occur to Blessman that PZed was chatting with a **group** of friends and family he came with in line. Blessman seems to have assumed that PZed appeared lone-gunman style and that Blessman could get away with claiming that PZed was harassing people near him in line based on the false belief that they were ID True Believers. Wrong. More Epic Fail on the part of the ID crowd.

  495. #501 Ramases
    March 21, 2008

    It seems science is not the only thing the films’ supporters are deluded about.

    Amongst the other silly comment by Stuart Blessman is this…

    “…the second question was asked by a surprise member of the audience: Richard Dawkins, author of “The God Delusion,” and arguably the biggest name in the movie other than Mr. Ben Stein himself.”

    Does this guy seriously think an idiot like Ben Stein is comparable to an eminent scientist like Richard Dawkins?

  496. #502 John Flemming
    March 21, 2008

    I can see the humour in the situation, but I also see a serious breach of Human Rights. Pulled from the queue to see a movie? I assume the movie is on ‘general release’ (ie, you pay your money, you get in)? This in the ‘Land of the Free’?
    Yeah, right, the same kind of freedom that theocrats want – you’re free to do as you’re told.
    What a disgrace, to the shame of all America.

  497. #503 Scote
    March 21, 2008

    also see a serious breach of Human Rights. Pulled from the queue to see a movie? I assume the movie is on ‘general release’ (ie, you pay your money, you get in)? This in the ‘Land of the Free’?

    Um, no. You really should read the OP or the comment thread. The film is still pre-release. Hopefully, it will stay that way :-)

    As to “Human Rights,” if anything having to watch this drivel is the human rights violation, not the other way around.

  498. #504 anonimo italiano
    March 21, 2008

    ROTFL! They let the bad wolf in! :D
    I’d say that only this vignette was worth much more than the whole movie itself. :D

  499. #505 Vaal
    March 21, 2008

    Cracking! Another own goal by the religiously deluded.

  500. #506 Tam
    March 21, 2008

    That is the funniest thing I have read all week. How can they not have recognised Dawkins? His face is synonymous with the “New Atheist Movement” that currently has so many Christians up in arms!

    The only thing funnier would have been if you were accompanied by Satan, complete with the pitchfork, pointy ears and tail.

  501. #507 Brian
    March 21, 2008

    I have nothing to say that hasn’t already been said. I just wanted to join the party.

    Thanks for the laughs, PZ, and everyone else who posted here.

    1. Make propaganda film.
    2. Lie to obtain interviews.
    3. Reverse sense of movie’s title to prevent interviewees from attending pre-screening.

    EPIC FAIL.

  502. #508 Hematite
    March 21, 2008

    <Mortal Kombat>MYERS WIN</Mortal Kombat>

    This is fantastically funny, a perfect start to the Chocolate Festival.

    This is full of win. I don’t know how you could be more awesome than sneaking Dawkins into the theatre! (disclaimer: yes, we know no actual sneaking was involved)

    P.S. Three cheers for Cuttlefish!

  503. #509 Kristjan Wager
    March 21, 2008

    Does this guy seriously think an idiot like Ben Stein is comparable to an eminent scientist like Richard Dawkins?

    Good catch. I think I can speak for all of us non-US readers, when I say that none of us had heard about Ben Stein before this movie. Yes, I know he had some other other role in a different movie, but who really remembered his name?

    Dawkins on the other hand has been translated into numerous languages, and was a big name even before his latest book.

  504. #510 sophia8
    March 21, 2008

    I think it is great…Why would any “Rational” person want to see our “creationist propaganda” anyway…it’s funny. You won’t let us teach it in school’s, so we finally get to Kick you out.

    As for Dawkins, who refuses to take part in any debate or think using his own individual thoughts, or answer any tough questions regarding his obvious religion, Were delighted that he finally took the time to challenge his faith.

    Nice turn of events and we get some amazing publicity. The “Producer” knows what he is doing…

    +1 Creationist.

    Has anybody told Marcus Pittman that some semi-literate teenager is posing as him on the internets?

  505. #511 Dzho
    March 21, 2008

    I was just about to go to bed when I saw this. Now its almost seven oclock in the morning!
    Wow.

  506. #512 Conan the barber
    March 21, 2008

    This is dangerous. Dawkins might leave the theater as a reborn Christian.

  507. #513 Dave Springer
    March 21, 2008

    Maybe it wasn’t you in particular, PZ. It may be they were kicking out everyone with steel toed boots and brass knuckles. HAR HAR HAR

  508. #514 October Mermaid
    March 21, 2008

    The funniest thing about all of this is that if there really WERE a God, he’s clearly not on the side of the Expelled morons.

  509. #515 decrepitoldfool
    March 21, 2008

    LOL!!!

    OK Wallace, here’s how it works in the real world: you cobble up a piece of tripe as a movie with third-rate intellect behind it, then make it possible for people who are libeled in the movie to attend a showing, and then throw one of them out, you will come out looking like a total doofus. This is what has happened to the producers. And they can’t contest professor Myers’ version of events because no video.

    /late to the Wallace-kicking party

    I would like to add my vote to the request for a Dawkins guest-post.

  510. #516 LaTomate
    March 21, 2008

    Wow!! Take it as a victory – now you’re famous!!

    I hope Richard tells us about his movie experience too :)

  511. #517 Name Withheld To Avoid Harassment
    March 21, 2008

    PZ: I suspect you were spotted because the organizers recruited members of the Twin Cities Creation Science Association to watch for you.

    Was there a lady wearing a funny hat standing nearby?

  512. #518 David Marjanovi?, OM
    March 21, 2008

    The pwnage! ROTFL! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

    ——————–

    Comment 138 deserve attention. I don’t have time now to read any farther, though. 734 comments… man…

  513. #519 David Marjanovi?, OM
    March 21, 2008

    The pwnage! ROTFL! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

    ——————–

    Comment 138 deserve attention. I don’t have time now to read any farther, though. 734 comments… man…

  514. #520 An
    March 21, 2008

    Like, others, I prolly dont have anything new to say but wtf!!! 734 comments!!…wtf again!

    PZ MYERS FOR PREZ!!!

  515. #521 hughesy
    March 21, 2008

    Come-on why didn’t you record this on you camera phone and release it on bit torrent -can’t you sneak you daughter or Richard in or something to record it again ? I refuse to pay any money to watch this garbage-i will rip off the producers as much as possible though!!!

  516. #522 Heather
    March 21, 2008

    im in ur teatr watchn ur flmz!

    How ironic and funny this whole thing is. Expelled from expelled, truly a made for the headlines situation.

    Maybe the IDers need to make one of those packs of playing cards with Dawkins and PZs faces on it, maybe Hitchens as well. But what can be on the rest of the pack?

  517. #523 Rodman
    March 21, 2008

    hehe, I live in Iran and I thought these things only happen over here. So much for the land of the free!

  518. #524 cmotdibbler
    March 21, 2008

    heather: the rest of the deck *must* be made of jokers!

  519. #525 Aspirin99
    March 21, 2008

    Wow, I wish I would have seen this last night. The mall is 5 minutes from my house. What a great story.

  520. #526 Craig
    March 21, 2008

    Wonderful and funny as hell.

    An unwelcome prostate check for fundies.

  521. #527 Anthony
    March 21, 2008

    Seems like a waste of blogging time. The subject is boring.

  522. #528 Ichthyes
    March 21, 2008

    That is AMAZING! I’m still giggling over it. This one will keep me smiling for hours. I can’t wait to hear Prof. Dawkins on the subject.

  523. #529 Deanne Taylor (Lilith)
    March 21, 2008

    PZ:

    Had to drop a comment on this. I was getting ready to go to work this morning when I was read your article over the phone.

    Thanks for the laugh. It’s a STEALTH DAWKINS.

    Hee hee. Hee hee hee. Hee hee ha HAHAHAHAH.

    Cough. :D

    Dee

  524. #530 Roel
    March 21, 2008

    PZ,
    The Dawkins part is funny, but I don’t think the rest of the story is funny at all.

    A police officer denied you access to a movie anybody else is allowed to see, for no good reason, a movie in which you yourself appear for goodness’ sake.
    This is OUTRAGEOUS. It’s a violation of your civil rights. You should file a complaint against the policeman and sue the movie theatre.

    I can only hope that the media pick up the story, and show the whole country that creationism is not interested in truth or justice at all, only in thought control.

  525. #531 LisaJ
    March 21, 2008

    Wow! Look what I’ve missed while sleeping!

    This is perhaps the funniest thing I’ve hear in ages. Unbelievable! hahahahahahaha
    I will be laughing all day on my drive to Toronto, this is just awesome.

    So you’re telling me, PZ, that you had to reserve seats under your own name. Did Richard Dawkins also supply his name before the event, and they still didn’t realize?! Wow, what a bunch of idiots!

    hahaha, this is fantastic.

  526. #532 Claudia
    March 21, 2008

    can’t wait to hear what Richard Dawkins have to say.
    it was great to start this friday laughing out loud!

  527. #533 Wiggy
    March 21, 2008

    This remarkable turn of events deserves a celebration. I’m popping the cork off a bottle of wine right now. But first, won’t everyone join me in a toast? To PZ and Professor Dawkins. May all of your victories be so sweet. Cheers!

  528. #534 Joe
    March 21, 2008

    Say, PZ? You were in an Apple Store. You could have called the media from one of their sample iPhones. (I can understand why you were too distracted to think of it though — that’s absolutely hilarious!)

  529. #535 Not important
    March 21, 2008

    It was probably a policeman on detail. Paid for by the theater, and yes the theater can kick people out for any reason they see fit and it would be trespassing to refuse.

    People seriously need to do some thinking before they start yelling about police acting outside the law.

  530. #536 catta
    March 21, 2008

    Epic win. :D Oh, how I wish that someone with a camera phone has filmed this…
    Adding to the “who is this Ben Stein anyway?” sentiment — nobody in Europe has a clue who this guy is (all I knew was that he hosted some sort of TV show a few years ago; and I knew this only because I’m a little more involved with US culture than normal). The movie wouldn’t make it to a screening here. If they tried, I’m pretty sure they’d be hard pressed to find an actual movie theatre to rent. Er, because we’re all raging anti-semites and Nazis over here, of course, not because creationists are widely considered part of the lunatic fringe.

  531. #537 Grover
    March 21, 2008

    *Sigh*

    And it’s exactly this kind of “Haw, haw, stupid morons, they’re so dumb” attitude that stirs up so much anti-science sentiment among Christians in the first place. If you’d stop treating them like idiots, maybe some of them would actually listen to what you have to say. Oddly enough, people tend to not listen to what you have to say when you’re an ass. Weird I know.

    Of course that’s not really what it’s about, is it? It’s not really about the sharing of knowledge anymore, it’s about being right. How’s that working for you? Enjoy the smug satisfaction in knowing that you’re pretty much behaving exactly like the fundamentalists that got you so angry in the first place. But it’s different for you, of course. Because you’re right. Right?

    *Sigh*

  532. #538 Nunya
    March 21, 2008

    “Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult; whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse. Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you. Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.” Proverbs 9:7-10

  533. #539 grafixer
    March 21, 2008

    PLEASE get this to the press! The Orlando Sentinel might be interested in your story. It is important that the public, and the FL Legislature realize how prejudicial these neocreos are becoming. If you don’t believe what they do, you will be “cast out.” Sounds real Christian of them, eh?
    Please get this to some reporters.

  534. #540 Gary Ruppert
    March 21, 2008

    The fact is, you liberals know this movie has the facts, and try to argue, but you have no recent discourse, so you do illegal things, and whine. Here in the heartland, we have the right to kick you out, especially since you kicked us out, and God out, of the classrooms and our nation. We are fighting back. God is with us.

  535. #541 grafixer
    March 21, 2008

    C’mon everybody, sing it with me…
    “Academic FreeDUMB!!!”

  536. #542 HumanisticJones
    March 21, 2008

    Dude! I know I’m late in the commenting here, but I just read this and now all of my coworkers are staring at me from the loud yelling of “OWNED!” That is some of the best news I’ve read all week.

  537. #543 Falcarius
    March 21, 2008

    Wow…this is just too good. I agree with the commenter who said this would make great Daily Show fodder (I fear the topic, and certainly the delicious double irony, is too “inside” for the mainstream media to make too big a deal of it). Too bad they’re off until Monday.

    Perhaps Dawkins will bring it up on Maher’s show, but has anyone forwarded the story to Keith Olbermann? It seems like a good candidate for “Worst Persons” honors.

  538. #544 Amy
    March 21, 2008

    I wish there were some way to notify Bill Maher. This is just the kind of thing he would love to put in his monologue tonight on HBO.

  539. #545 Zarquon
    March 21, 2008

    Enjoy the smug satisfaction in knowing that you’re pretty much behaving exactly like the fundamentalists that got you so angry in the first place.

    No, he’s really not. PZ hasn’t lied to anyone or pretended to be persecuted. That you ignore the lies and hypocrisy of the ID crowd is your problem, because it destroys your credibility.

  540. #546 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    This is what we wrote on the whiteboard at the contact table today, including a very well drawn picture of the Grinch. Yesterday we had “Communists and the Grinch.” (I think we should go for broke and write “Atheists, the Grinch, and hundreds of millions dead”) This seemingly innocent question seems to pack a lot of heat. Grant, a former atheist, came up with it.

    Do you really think you’re being clever Stuey?

    grow up

  541. #547 Stuart Ritchie
    March 21, 2008

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That’s AWESOME!

  542. #548 Plognark
    March 21, 2008

    That’s so funny I almost spewed coffee out my nose :D

  543. #549 True Bob
    March 21, 2008

    Very amusing. More evidence that these IDiots haven’t graduated from Middle School yet, the pettiness.

  544. #550 Andrewf
    March 21, 2008

    I’m appalled.

    I’m appalled that someone can be chucked out of a cinema queue by the police on the whim of the cinema owner.

    I’m appalled that (according to the comments here) police in the US can moonlight as security guards WHILE WEARING THEIR UNIFORMS. Bloody hell. Does noone else see the massive potential for abuse of power there?

    (I used to be appalled by the strength of the Creationist movement in America, but I’ve kind of got used to that idea by now.)

  545. #551 Aaron
    March 21, 2008

    PZ, that is BEAUTIFUL.

    just BEAUTIFUL.

    Despite the police interference, which is questionable, you have no doubt pulled the most ridiculously AWESOME fastball on them EVAR.

    Kudos.

  546. #552 Paul
    March 21, 2008

    Disturbing with a funny twist!

  547. #553 Keith
    March 21, 2008

    Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?

    Yes I am.

  548. #554 Jack Rawlinson
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, that’s too beautiful. I hope RD finds time to write about this and to trash that pathetic movie.

  549. #555 True Bob
    March 21, 2008

    What is the concern about the off-duty cop? That is very routine. Ever see a funeral procession, with police? Those guys are off duty. Like the ones who direct traffic at the end of church services. And yes, they can arrest you if they are off duty, if you break the law (like trespassing, eh).

  550. #556 CalGeorge
    March 21, 2008

    “763: “The fact is, you liberals know this movie has the facts, and try to argue, but you have no recent discourse, so you do illegal things, and whine. Here in the heartland, we have the right to kick you out, especially since you kicked us out, and God out, of the classrooms and our nation. We are fighting back. God is with us.”

    Out on his sorry ass!

    You can have your imaginary pals, God and Jesus – just don’t expect undeluded people to think very highly of you or your little fantasy friends, especially when you force your unenlightened religious puke on kids who should be learning how the world operates, not what goes on in your narrow-minded, god-intoxicated head.

  551. #557 pawiz
    March 21, 2008

    Oh the irony, it almost hurts. Or is that my sides splitting?

  552. #558 Matt
    March 21, 2008

    @ #750: Seems like a waste of blogging time. The subject is boring.

    Thanks for taking your time to post that valuable insight. Have an owl.

    @ #779: Thanks for that. I was having a hard time articulating scathing contempt. Little Gary does love to show his ignorance in forums.

  553. #559 David Harmon
    March 21, 2008

    Damn, but you couldn’t make this stuff up. Congratulations on your Total Win, PZ!

  554. #560 fontinalis
    March 21, 2008

    This may be the first time I’ve actually laughed out loud from reading a blog post. Bloody brilliant.

  555. #561 Chang
    March 21, 2008

    See, God does have a sense of humor!

  556. #562 Glen
    March 21, 2008

    It’s worthy of further media, television appears so mundane in contrast! – Most Excellent :-)

  557. #563 SteveM
    March 21, 2008

    I’m appalled that (according to the comments here) police in the US can moonlight as security guards WHILE WEARING THEIR UNIFORMS.

    This is common practice, Police at road construction sites are off duty and paid by the DPW not the Police dept. When the phone company needs to block traffic to replace a telephone pole, they have to hire off duty police to direct traffic. Police at rock concerts, or directing traffic after football games, are off duty police hired by the promoters, etc.

    Does noone else see the massive potential for abuse of power there?

    No. They are not being hired to be thugs, they are still acting as police officers and bound by the same rules of conduct. They are still police, it is just that for that time their salary is being paid by a private party, but that does not make that officer a “henchman”. If the policeman wasn’t hired by the producers for the screening, the producers could have still called the (on-duty) police and had PZ (or anyone else they want) removed from their private screening. Just as anyone throwing a party could call the police and have a “party-crasher” removed.

    Geeze, I don’t know why everyone is so upset about the whole off-duty cop thing. Imagine you rent the theatre for a wedding reception and someone uninvited wanders in refuses to leave. Don’t you think you should be able to call the police and have him removed? Now suppose your wedding involves a famous person that will incite a lot of gate crashing. Rather than have you calling every five minutes to have someone removed, the police require you to hire some off duty police so the rest of the force can do their regular jobs and not be tied up at your event. I do not see the “abuse of power” potential. They are being hired to be police, not leg-breakers.

    The officer is not to blame here, the producers are. Not because they didn’t have the right to exclude PZ (they did), but because it was just so stupid to do so.

  558. #564 blaggghhh
    March 21, 2008

    It’s odd to me that they expelled you but let your guest & family go in. I don’t see what good that does them. Nothing they do makes sense.

  559. #565 Raven
    March 21, 2008

    As someone who used to be a manager at a theater, many of them hire off-duty cops as security. Nothing weird at all about it being a cop – and once they’re hired by the company, they’re effectively private security in terms of what you can get them to do. They just, you know, can arrest someone if they have to.
    And it makes the poor theater staff’s lives so much easier. Just like it would yours if you needed to have someone removed for being a nuisance – which is your right on your property. It is, of course, important here that PZ wasn’t actively trying to protest or any such protected thing. Because he was actually trying to be a customer, the rules are different.

  560. #566 isles
    March 21, 2008

    Only in the ID movement do they have to shield the tender minds of their bleevers so assiduously from the assault of reason, personified by Big Bad PZ Myers!

  561. #567 M Goose
    March 21, 2008

    Jumpin’ Jehosefat! Nice work,PZ Myers. And thanks to the blogosphere for spreading it around. Meantime, I’m off to celebrate Flat Earth Friday, where the masses celebrate spring by sacrificing reason on the altar of faith. (In my case, it means having the first barbecue of the season.)

  562. #568 Keith Douglas
    March 21, 2008

    Yowza. This is nuts. Of course, I expect no end of misrepresentations from the godbotherers and fundies …

  563. #569 gir
    March 21, 2008
  564. #570 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    At any rate, Mark Mathis lied to me, too. He told me that “Crossroads” was a “working title” for the film.

    It was a working title – it worked to snooker people into the interviews.

    And then they accuse of Dawkins of “crashing” the screening and “working his way in”. Sheesh!

  565. #571 Kris Verburgh
    March 21, 2008

    Funny, but also a bit concerning. And mister Meyers seemed to be a decoy for Dawkins!

  566. #572 Icelander
    March 21, 2008

    I’d take it as a compliment: You’re a bigger threat to the ID crowd than even Richard Dawkins!

  567. #573 Davee C
    March 21, 2008

    Re documentary subterfuge, it’s not as though Dr Dawkins hasn’t done it himself:

    Richard Dawkins Comes to Call
    http://www.dailygrail.com/node/5817

  568. #574 phantomreader42
    March 21, 2008

    Saw this quote on the Dawkins site, used by a poster named Corylus:

    When men no longer have the least fear of saying something untrue, they very soon have no fear whatsoever of doing something unjust.

    ~Theodor Haecker

    Just so fitting. Not just for the IDiots running the screening, but for all their sycophants who can’t bring themselves to see any problem with the massive, obvious hypocrisy of this whole debacle.

    These people don’t show the slightest hint of remorse for making wild, false accusations against innocent people. Isn’t their imaginary god supposed to have some sort of problem with bearing false witness? Or do they just think it’s not really lying if you’re Lying For Jesus™?

  569. #575 Anthony
    March 21, 2008

    Excellent job! Keep up the good work PZ.

  570. #576 thorsten wulff
    March 21, 2008

    Perfect! Great story that saved my rainy Karfreitag afternoon, PZ.
    All the best from old europe ;))

  571. #577 Nan
    March 21, 2008

    Perfect. You made my day. Irony meters planet wide have maxed out.

  572. #578 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    So now you know what students and educators who are targeted because of their belief in open discussion of ID feel like. How appropriate.

  573. #579 pam
    March 21, 2008

    oh.. this is so classic.. It amazes me what people will do in the name of fear……….. I will be giggling at the absurdity of this for along time. Oh and to be in the company of such a great man.. one would envy you….. if it wern’t a sin….;)

  574. #580 Andy N
    March 21, 2008

    It is snowing here at the moment, but I’m as warm as toast after reading this.

  575. #581 wheatdogg
    March 21, 2008

    Check this out. They say PZ had no ticket and Dawkins was crashing the party.
    http://www.expelledthemovie.com/chronicle.php?article=11

  576. #582 Matt
    March 21, 2008

    I must not be up on who these people are… but sure seems to be a popular topic and funny to most. Can anyone clue me in on what I’m missing?

  577. #583 Wolfhound
    March 21, 2008

    I love how a hypocritical piece of trash like Jay Rogers tries to spin this as a victory. And, DSM, when ID proponents who are merely advicating for “an open discussion” are escorted off of school grounds by law enforcement you MIGHT have a point.

  578. #584 Someone who doesn't care
    March 21, 2008

    Who is Richard Dawkins?

  579. #585 Nick K
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, what I wouldn’t give to see the security camera footage of this.

  580. #586 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    Most reviewers who are allowed into advance screenings have the professional courtesy not to publish their reviews until the week the movie premieres.

    PZ is a professional movie reviewer?

  581. #587 Jake
    March 21, 2008

    Oh my gosh!
    I actually snorted some water out of my nose when I read that!

  582. #588 Alex
    March 21, 2008

    That’s rich! Serves them right. Are their arguments so weak that they can’t afford to let anybody who hasn’t drunk their kool-aid see the movie?

  583. #589 lololololololol
    March 21, 2008

    What are you five years old? Grow up you have a daughter

  584. #590 Jay Rogers
    March 21, 2008

    Richard Dawkins crashes the party at a screening of “Expelled”
    By JEFFREY OVERSTREET
    Published: March 20, 2008

    I just received this email report from Looking Closer reader Stuart Blessman. He thought I’d find it interesting, and I certainly do. He also gave me permission to share it with you. So, here’s Stuart’s account:

    My name is Stuart Blessman and I’m a student at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities involved with a campus outreach ministry that’s associated with an on campus church, Maranatha Christian Fellowship. Our head pastor was recently offered two pairs of tickets to go see an advanced screening of Ben Stein’s “Expelled”, but had to instead pass the tickets to an associate pastor, who then offered one of them to me. So at 7:00 pm on Thursday my friend Grant and I got to go see the movie. Right away, let me just say that this is the Best Documentary of 2008…if it will get played. The basic premise of the movie is that Intelligent Design should be allowed equal footing as a teachable theory within academia. This movie is not an apology for Creation; pains are taken to distinguish Creation from Intelligent Design. This is also not a movie that bashes Evolutional Theory, although many rational arguments are brought up as to the validity of Evolutionary thought as well as the long-term consequences of an Evolutionary Worldview.

    The Associate Producer of the film, Mark Mathis, introduced the film as well as moderated for the quick Q&A following the film. The movie we saw was a rough Director’s Cut; at several moments things appeared to be out of sync, and occasionally archival historical footage appeared to “jump” on the screen. Mathis also mentioned that several music cues might change before the final cut, which is understandable since several high profile songs and artists are used in the film.

    The film can best be described as subtly clever and occasionally funny. Emotions are stirred up especially built around the movies overall theme*, and many scenes especially later in the movie might be difficult to watch based on one’s ethnic and religious background.

    But enough about the film – the real highlight of the evening occurred after the showing, during the Q&A. Mathis led this discussion, and the second question was asked by a surprise member of the audience: Richard Dawkins, author of “The God Delusion,” and arguably the biggest name in the movie other than Mr. Ben Stein himself. As this screening was by invitation only, Dawkins appearance was quite a surprise to both the audience and Mathis.

    Dawkins asked a simple question: Why was one of his colleagues interviewed in the movie denied a chance to come see this movie and protest it and in fact was escorted out by security prior to admittance to the theatre? The irony apparently escaped Mr. Dawkins that he himself was a gatecrasher to the movie and was uninvited; nevertheless, he wanted to know why his colleague was turned away even though he himself was admitted as were his colleague’s family.

    I just happened to be standing directly in line behind Dawkins’ academic colleague. Management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in. Management then approached the man, asked him if he had a ticket, and when he confirmed that he didn’t, they then escorted him off the premises. Nowhere was one of the film’s producers to be found, and the man certainly didn’t identify himself. If a producer had been nearby, it’s possible that he would have been admitted, but the theatre’s management didn’t want to take any chances.

    So ultimately Dawkins’ first complaint was irrelevant. His second complaint was that any statement he made in the film was in fact under the assumption that he was being interviewed by Ben Stein (and by Mark Mathis) for a film that was to take an even-handed look at the Intelligent Design/Evolution controversy. Unfortunately, the entire audience, minus Dawkins’ posse, agreed that that the film’s main point was that Intelligent Design should be taught in conjunction with Evolution.

    The Q&A then proceeded pretty uneventfully, with several of the questions addressed to Dawkins himself. Mathis and Dawkins also clearly had spoken on numerous occasions and appeared to continue an argument that they had started previously. The evening however was cut short by theatre management and an imminent showing of another movie in the same room.

    Ben Stein’s “Expelled” is one of the more evenhanded, clever, and well-produced documentaries currently on the market. While the Evolution/Intelligent Design debate can spark much emotion, anyone walking away from this film will be convinced that the merits of Intelligent Design should be on the same level playing field as Evolutionary Theory. This film is about the freedom of speech, the freedom of ideas and ability to express those ideas…not about whether God created the heavens and the earth.

    *SPOILER!! Proceed and highlight text below only if you want to know more about the film’s specific content.

  585. #591 Adam
    March 21, 2008

    wheatdogg,

    It looks like they just copied and pasted the blog post that was discussed earlier (http://lookingcloser.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/richard-dawkins-crashes-the-party-at-a-screening-of-expelled/)

  586. #592 Joshua Zelinsky
    March 21, 2008

    Christianity Today has an article about Dawkin’s attendance, but no mention of PZ’s expulsion. See http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2008/03/dawkins_crashes.html

  587. #593 Mike
    March 21, 2008

    Shoulda shot that popo in the face, knowwhat I’m sayin?

  588. #594 True Bob
    March 21, 2008

    Yes, Adam, they did, and worse Troll JR did that in the comments here.

  589. #595 Kevin
    March 21, 2008

    My name is Stuart Blessman:

    “Our head pastor was recently offered two pairs of tickets to go see an advanced screening of Ben Stein’s “Expelled”, but had to instead pass the tickets to an associate pastor, who then offered one of them to me. ”

    Oh, well, that clears it up then. except…

    “So at 7:00 pm on Thursday my boyfriend Grant and I got to go see the movie.” so… one ticket is good for 2 people? or are you saying one ticket is good for a couple?

    or that you made up the part about tickets?

  590. #596 Jay Rogers
    March 21, 2008

    Cheezits: PZ is a professional movie reviewer?
    **********

    The preceding paragraph said Roger Moore the Orlando Sentinel movie reviewer.

  591. #597 Tom-Tom
    March 21, 2008

    Oh my goodness!! I laughed so hard when I read this kim chi came flying out of my nose, and into the future.

  592. #598 phantomreader42
    March 21, 2008

    Liar Jay Rogers:

    It would be no different if you tried to crash an advance test screening of Indiana Jones or Star Trek except the security would have been tighter. And yes, you should have been arrested if you trespassed in any private function.

    There was no attempt to “crash” anything. Dr. Myers signed up on the Expelled website, using his real name. He explicitly stated that he would be bringing guests. He did not trespass, he was threatened with arrest for trying to attend a screening of a movie he was interviewed for under false pretenses, a screening for which he had registered using the website offered by the people who made the movie.

    You’re just making shit up. Isn’t your imaginary god supposed to have some sort of problem with bearing false witness?

    wheatdogg @ #805:

    Check this out. They say PZ had no ticket and Dawkins was crashing the party.
    http://www.expelledthemovie.com/chronicle.php?article=11

    No tickets were required. No “crashing” occurred. This has already been pointed out. The fact that no tickets are required was explicitly stated in the confirmation email PZ got when he signed up for the screening, using his real name, and making it clear he would be bringing guests. Can’t these creationist nutcases even keep their lies straight?

  593. #599 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    I hypothesize: We will see a Paul Allen funded rebuttal to Expelled, which cannot be done if Expelled flops.

    Which might explain why PZ and the PTN-syndicate (PT-TO-NCSE) is giving so much free publicity to the film.

  594. #600 Steve Courtright
    March 21, 2008

    Fun story, PZ, thanks for sharing it. And keep up the good work.

  595. #601 guthrie
    March 21, 2008

    Grover- what is wrong with pointing at idiots and laughing? Then explaining in mind numbing detail why they are idiots?

  596. #602 Damian
    March 21, 2008

    As a big proponent of the film EXPELLED blaming a scientific theory for genocide, and implicating the discover of that theory, even when the worlds best historians have shown the charge to be utterly false (and have even suggested that, in Hitler’s case, at least, his hatred of the Jews had far more to do with religion), I don’t see any irony here at all. Irony is when the expected is the opposite of the actual event.

    After that little fix, I think that I can agree with that.

    It would be no different if you tried to crash an advance test screening of Indiana Jones or Star Trek except the security would have been tighter. And yes, you should have been arrested if you trespassed in any private function.

    Only that they obtained the tickets in the same way that everyone else did. They followed procedure, so you really don’t have an argument. Of course, few people would disagree with the fact that the producers were within their right to do what they did. It is simply deliciously ironic, that’s all. Don’t worry yourself with such details, though.

    Most reviewers who are allowed into advance screenings have the professional courtesy not to publish their reviews until the week the movie premieres. No such courtesy here. The political stakes are too high.

    Ah, the old professional courtesy trick. So soon? An amateur, I tells ya!

  597. #603 Atheist
    March 21, 2008

    How secure are you in your beliefs that you need to shelter them from those who don’t believe?
    Discuss at Atheist Revolution Forum.

  598. #604 Joshua Zelinsky
    March 21, 2008

    Hmm, does the fact that PZ signed up with is actual name initially explain why they were looking for him and not Dawkins since Dawkins was just listed as a guest? Very likely if Dawkins had been separately registered they would have tried to kick him out as well.

  599. #605 Adrian
    March 21, 2008

    Over 800 comments in and not a single “don’t tase me, bro”? For shame!

    This made my morning. Good Friday indeed.

  600. #606 Harry
    March 21, 2008

    That is bloody brilliant. Way to take one for the team.

  601. #607 catta
    March 21, 2008

    Jay Rogers, just to clear this up for you: the “expected is the opposite of the actual event” when people who have registered to view a movie screening upon public invitation by the movie makers are expelled for the reason that they might dissent — when the producers are supposedly promoting the idea that nobody should be removed from a discussion on grounds of their views. You would expect that if they were serious about this idea, they’d go through with it escpecially where discussion about their own views is concerned. The opposite happened. This fits your definition of irony perfectly. The key here is that the screening was far removed from your usual test audience screening in that there was an open invitation, and both PZ and Dawkins complied with all requirements stated. If you think there are exceptions to the “all viewpoints allowed” rule, forget about ID being taught in public schools. If you think there should be no exceptions, protest the exclusion of people with dissenting views from open-invitation screenings by your heroes. You can’t have it both ways.

  602. #608 Mike
    March 21, 2008

    Then Dicky Dawkins shoulda jumped up and did a ninja karate backflip and gone so gangsta on they asses they woulda been eating lead enchiladas from he sawed off when they jawed off.

    Whatchoo think I be sayin all these years? Only hot lead sandwiches make these home slices bow down. Word.

  603. #609 ERV
    March 21, 2008

    Jay Rogers Rat– It would be no different if you tried to crash an advance test screening of Indiana Jones or Star Trek except the security would have been tighter.

    Funny– I got to see Lord of the Rings, Phantom Menace, etc weeks before everyone else, and I never needed to sign a nondisclosure agreement or had to hire police officers? Prescreenings are to test for editing mistakes and to pump up opening weekend numbers.

    Lie much, Creationist rat?

  604. #610 EC
    March 21, 2008

    You retards, Dawkins was in the movie, they probably didnt know who this ass clown blogger dickhead is.

  605. #611 Teircel
    March 21, 2008

    This IS priceless!

  606. #612 CalGeorge
    March 21, 2008

    Christianity Today:

    A critic of another kind “crashed” a screening in Minnesota on Thursday night–Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion and arguably the most outspoken critic of Intelligent Design and Creationism. Dawkins himself appears in the documentary–but claims he was duped into believing it was going to be an objective account of Darwinism vs. ID.

    Jeffrey Overstreet, a film critic for CT Movies, broke the news on his own blog Thursday night after receiving an e-mail from a college student who was at the screening.

    WTF? They are claiming that Overstreet posted on this before PZ?

    Yet another screw-up by a fact-challenged Christian outfit.

  607. #613 phantomreader42
    March 21, 2008

    Cowardheart’s paranoid delusions seem to be growing:

    Which might explain why PZ and the PTN-syndicate (PT-TO-NCSE) is giving so much free publicity to the film.

    So, now the vast criminal conspiracy that exists only in your hollow head has new members! Does it have any new evidence? Which is to say, any evidence at all?

    More questions you haven’t answered, and will most likely flee in terror from:
    1) Is it your claim that the NPR story you linked to (or at least your spin on it) is absolute truth, despite all evidence to the contrary, unless NPR retracts it?

    2) Does that apply to every NPR story, or only the ones that feed your persecution complex?

    3) Where’s your evidence that this “PT-mafia” you speak of actually exists outside your own delusional paranoid fantasies?

    4) Is the “PTN-syndicate” a new form of this delusion, or a separate fantasy, and do you have the slightest shred of evidence to support it?

    5) What do you think Dr. Myers “did” to get himself kicked out of the screening of your propaganda film (given that every rationale you gave for his removal has been shown to be laughably false), and where is your evidence in support of this?

    6) Since when do “don’t be stupid” and “don’t lie through your teeth” constitute an “ideological test”?

    7) Isn’t your imaginary god supposed to have some sort of problem with bearing false witness?

  608. #614 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    Cheezits: PZ is a professional movie reviewer?
    **********

    The preceding paragraph said Roger Moore the Orlando Sentinel movie reviewer.

    That’s all very nice, but what does that have to do with PZ? Why was he kicked out?

  609. #615 catta
    March 21, 2008

    You retards, Dawkins was in the movie, they probably didnt know who this ass clown blogger dickhead is.

    Hate to break to ya, EC, but PZ was in the movie as well.

  610. #616 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    And finally at comment #760, the whingers come in!

    “So now you know what students and educators who are targeted because of their belief in open discussion of ID feel like. ”

    You mean all those poor persecuted IDers actually laugh their heads off when we criticize their uninformed beliefs? Well, we better keep at it then! The world needs laughter!

    To clarify really quickly for the assorted gawpers, the issue is not one of legality, since they are, as far as I can tell, within their rights to refuse to let people in, and PZ was well within his rights to try to get in in the first place. The issue is that by forcibly denying entry to Dr. Myers, the Expelled team is proving themselves to be a load of WANKERS. And by letting Dawkins in, they’re proving themselves to be STUPID wankers.

    If anyone wants to challenge my point about their wankitude, they’re welcome to try. Or they could just keep wanking.

  611. #617 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Does this guy seriously think an idiot like Ben Stein is comparable to an eminent scientist like Richard Dawkins?

    Maybe he meant that Ben Stein is a bigger name than Richard Dawkins in the same sense the Paris Hilton is a bigger name than Richard Dawkins. It’s all about fame, not qualifications, intelligence, integrity… etc. :-/

    Grover (#760): You have to understand something. It’s totally about “sharing the knowledge,” but the people who need it most spit it back as if it were a forkfull of rotting fish, and damn the would-be educator to hell for the sin of attempting to educate. This gets frustrating and predictable after a while – hence the hostility. Also, the ID crowd is infamous for its intellectual vapidity and dishonest tactics. There’s a long history here.

    Your concerns are noted, but carry limited weight because they fail to address or even recognize important facets of the bigger picture.

  612. #618 Damian
    March 21, 2008

    Contrast Stuart Blessman’s backtracking, once he was called on his blatant dishonesty:

    “Yes, you registered online, but the initial invitation was by invite only. You registered who was coming in your invited group, not just “first come, first serve.”

    And since I was literally 3 feet away from Myers when he was “expelled,” I heard every word. It was obvious he was being kicked out by theatre management because he was not invited nor was he on the pre-submitted list. He didn’t cause a disruption per se; he was kindly escorted out.

    with:

    I just happened to be standing directly in line behind Dawkins’ academic colleague. Management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in. Management then approached the man, asked him if he had a ticket, and when he confirmed that he didn’t, they then escorted him off the premises. Nowhere was one of the film’s producers to be found, and the man certainly didn’t identify himself.

    So, he was “literally 3 feet away from Myers when he was “expelled,”, and could hear, “every word”, and yet, he couldn’t quite make his mind up whether PZ “didn’t cause a disruption”, or whether the “management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in.”

    I think that I will go with the four or five accounts of the people that I trust, to be honest.

    By the way, Wesley Elsberry, from Panda’s Thumb, has conclusively shown that the domain name, “Expelled”, was bought before the interviews with Dawkins, PZ, and Eugenie Scott.

    They did not, at any point, buy the domain for “Crossroads”. Fancy that!

  613. #619 Lazarus
    March 21, 2008

    You can never have an open discussion with someone that is blinded by faith. Religion blinds so much more efficiently than anything. My greatest fear is that in America we have lost our ability to reason.

  614. #620 phantomreader42
    March 21, 2008

    EC the idiot:

    You retards, Dawkins was in the movie, they probably didnt know who this ass clown blogger dickhead is.

    catta @ #839:
    Hate to break to ya, EC, but PZ was in the movie as well.

    And to further compound EC’s idiocy, if they didn’t know who he was, how could they identify him by name to throw him out?

  615. #621 EC
    March 21, 2008

    Maybe they didn’t recognize him, most of us can pick richard dawkins out fairly quick.

  616. #622 Kim van der Linde
    March 21, 2008

    Yeah, this is the best thing they could do to themselves. They probably expected PZ, but did not think about Dawkins beforehand because he lives in the UK. Very good.

  617. #623 Publius
    March 21, 2008

    Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

    “Security” is so flawed.

  618. #624 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    Irony is when the expected is the opposite of the actual event.

    So, what is it when someone with intelligence gets expelled from a movie called “Expelled – No Intelligence Allowed”?

    You’re right, that IS what we should have expected! :-D

  619. #625 Siggers Nation
    March 21, 2008

    The only thing that could have been better would be to have a third stage uranium-tipped sabot comprised of Richard Dawson injected into the theater.

    Survey says!

  620. #626 BlueIndependent
    March 21, 2008

    @ #806:

    Matt, what’s going on is the unwashed, ignorant masses of Bible-bashing creationists/intelligent design proponents put together a turd of a movie that PZ Myers has been discussing at length over the last several months. Last night PZ and family, along with other notables as internationally recognized biologist Richard Dawkins, went to go see this Expelled movie. But the movie’s producers singled out PZ, said he tried to “crash” the premiere in Minneapolis by sneaking in “without a ticket” (to a ticketless event), and they let Dawkins in apparently accidentally, while claiming the same (that Dawkins was crashing without a ticket).

    The joke is they let the “enemy” in to review their tripe while somewhat misfiring their censoring reflexivity upon a lesser known critic in PZ.

    Noticing their huge gaffe, they have since begun the campaign to cover up their screw up by claiming Dawkins got in uninvited (even though there’s a list with his name onn it, as well as PZ’s), and that PZ and crew were there to rabble-rouse.

  621. #627 The J Train
    March 21, 2008

    I’m always proud to be on your blogroll, but never more than today. This made my week.

  622. #628 Steven
    March 21, 2008

    Hilarious and stupid. What I don’t get is that a policeman stopped him. Did the movie producer own the cinema hall or something? As far as I know they don’t have the ability to stop people going the cinema. Were did he go to see it?

  623. #629 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    Do you know if their is another screening? I want you to try to get in again, but with a more expansive guest list. What follows is my sample posse.

    Get all four horsemen- Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, & Hitchens. Then round up more skeptics- Shermer, Randi, Penn, & Teller. Check Amazon to find some rationalist authors. Throw some ScienceBloggers in for good measure. I just want to see the heads of the Expelled people asplode.

    Feel free to add to that if you wish.

  624. #630 Gus
    March 21, 2008

    As funny as this is, I’m disturbed that there was a screening of this in my city.

  625. #631 Jay Rogers
    March 21, 2008

    So now we are arguing over the definition of the word “crashed” and whether it was a “by invitation only” event?

    Don’t forget to see Dawkins and Myers clips from the movie here:

    http://forerunner.com/blog

    It’s by invitation only! You are all invited!

  626. #632 Gary Hurd
    March 21, 2008

    Bravo PZ. That was the best laugh I had in three days.

    Thanks!

  627. #633 Michelle
    March 21, 2008

    Go folks! if we try hard we can make it to the 1000 comments! :P

  628. #634 catta
    March 21, 2008

    Er… Jay? I know YouTube is hard, but you realize that you can’t show embedded video of friends-only videos? Trying to emulate the movie’s “publicity” style on YouTube? =)

  629. #635 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    So now we are arguing over the definition of the word “crashed” and whether it was a “by invitation only” event?

    I can’t help it if creationist morons used those phrases. :-D PZ and RD were “invited” same as anyone else.

  630. #636 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    And, DSM, when ID proponents who are merely advicating for “an open discussion” are escorted off of school grounds by law enforcement you MIGHT have a point.

    Posted by: Wolfhound

    Well, that would require them to be allowed on school grounds in the first place…

    A little hyperbole, but what is the difference between banning them from school grounds and banning their freedom to share their ideas from school grounds? I see no difference.

  631. #637 Jack Rawlinson
    March 21, 2008

    “Enjoy the smug satisfaction in knowing that you’re pretty much behaving exactly like the fundamentalists that got you so angry in the first place.”

    And they’re still shocked that we keep calling them idiots. Awesome.

  632. #638 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Which might explain why PZ and the PTN-syndicate (PT-TO-NCSE) is giving so much free publicity to the film.

    Oh, my. Is William Walleye at it again?

  633. #639 Logicel
    March 21, 2008

    I am well satiated with this delicious main course of irony. However, I want dessert now. I am expecting an airy, vacuous mouse covered with masses of imitation whipped cream, topped with a red, red, red, wrinkled sour cherry of shame–better known as some frantic whizzing-of-wheels-stuck-in-sand media spin by the IDiots.

  634. #640 MartinM
    March 21, 2008

    So now we are arguing over the definition of the word “crashed” and whether it was a “by invitation only” event?

    Well, yes. We’re doing so because you suggested that PZ was trespassing at a private function to which he was not invited. Since this is not in fact true, others corrected you. Why do you find this surprising?

  635. #641 MartinM
    March 21, 2008

    A little hyperbole, but what is the difference between banning them from school grounds and banning their freedom to share their ideas from school grounds? I see no difference.

    1) Preventing people from teaching ID in science class is not the same as ‘banning them from school grounds.’

    2) Teaching one’s ideas in science class is a merit-based privilege, not a right. ID proponents have failed to earn that privilege, but ask for special treatment anyway.

  636. #642 Richard Thomas
    March 21, 2008

    Creationists are beyond any chance of rational discourse about the evidence behind the theory of evolution and are incapable of participating in anything but soundbites where no real meat can be presented to show the vacuousness of their position.

    Had Mr. Stein or any creationist any real balls they would sit down for a real discussion of science in a national forum where each side gives at least a 2 hour presentation of the science with only people that are on their side presenting the evidence that they have to offer.
    This could be presented in separate divisions wherein each side refers only to the science they have at hand and with no reference to the other sides position or people.

    Following this half hour segments could be put together in an ongoing manner to rebut one another if there was anything left to rebut. So any creationists out there that are willing to talk to people like Ben Stein about actually making a case or do you need to remain in the shadows full of fear at actual science?

  637. #643 CalGeorge
    March 21, 2008

    #855, Jay Rogers’ blog:

    “Check back for my random thoughts on eschatology, world missions, God’s Law and Society, theonomy, Christian Reconstruction, pro-life activism, evangelism testimonies, Neo-Puritan theology and social theory, revival and spiritual awakening, church history, and so on.”

    I’d rather watch paint dry.

  638. #644 Elyse
    March 21, 2008

    That is too funny. Those poor people, they don’t know which end is their ass and which is their face. You must have felt pretty ballin’ in front of Dawkins though. You know, I bet he was just a little jealous. In fact, that’s just a little embarrassing for him. On the other hand, what better person to screen the movie than Richard Dawkins?

    I love your blog, by the way. Congratulations!

  639. #645 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Jay:

    So now we are arguing over the definition of the word “crashed” and whether it was a “by invitation only” event?

    No. We’re arguing, not definitions, but the dishonest use of both phrases by the organizers of the event and by the many shameless liars who claim that an event accessible to anyone who pre-registers for admission can possibly be crashed by someone who pre-registered for admission as instructed by the organizers of the event.

    If you persist in misunderstanding this simple distinction, then you have joined the ranks or the shameless liars. At this point, it’s up to you. Please make the right choice.

  640. #646 Lionel A
    March 21, 2008

    Grover #760

    If your people have to resort to strong arm tactics in order to exclude one of the participants in the documentary from watching its screening then the whole ID movement deserves the ridicule it gets.

    That Richard Dawkins got through IS the funniest thing that I have heard in a long, long time.

    Ruppert #763

    What are these ‘illegal things’ that you mention? Besides I see little sign of any of us whining, quit the reverse.

    As for the ‘movie’, as you quaintly call it, having the facts then if they did have the facts when making this documentary then why did they not base it upon any such facts instead of creating a story of chronological impossibility? The answers to that question will inform you as to why the Dover case was lost by the IDiots.

  641. #647 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    I have still yet to see an answer to the question of why they wouldn’t want someone who is in the movie to see it let alone why they wouldn’t want anyone to see it.

    I know it’s release is still a ways off but you’d think if they were confident in their material they’d be ok with critics.

    Nope. Because they can’t send a movie down the memory hole after it’s been let out.

  642. #648 Jason Black
    March 21, 2008

    As much as I’d love to see the Four Horsemen, Penn and Teller, Shermer, and Myers crash the film, I actually think it would be counterproductive.

    If one guy goes to see it and they block him, it is because they see him as a threat. But if a multitude gathered outside, that would just give the movie free publicity a la “See the atheists trying to censor us!”. It would just give the semblance of legitimacy.

    What this movie needs is more of what PZ did. Laugh about it. And that’s pretty much all we really have to do.

    Let’s face it: the point the movie makes consists of repeatedly insinuating that those who disagree with their point of view are Nazis, and the supporting evidence consists of creative edits of interviews with respectable scientists–edits that make these scientists seem to say things no self-respecting human being would ever say.

    They have also set up some lofty ideal as the theme of the movie–that all points of view should be argued in the classroom–which they repeatedly contradict by publicly demonizing scientists that happen to be atheists, and (as we have seen with PZ) excluding all dissenters and conscientious objectors from the conversation.

    No, I don’t think there’s any need for a big to-do about the movie. It is intelligently designed, after all. And it’s designed well enough to expose perfectly the lack of intelligence behind its design.

    I’m more than content to laugh about this movie and watch the fireworks, kind of like Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

  643. #649 Tegumai Bopsulai, FCD
    March 21, 2008

    Real Time With Bill Maher
    Fri, Mar 21

    Actor Jon Hamm; Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.); author P.J. O’Rourke; biologist Richard Dawkins.

  644. #650 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    grrrrrrr

    it’s = its

  645. #651 debbyo
    March 21, 2008

    Hilarious.

    But I am also jealous you were with Richard Dawkins, my hero. And it brought back bad memories. Mum and dad went on a tour (I think in Egypt)a few years ago. They made friends with a “lovely couple” who they invited to come and stay next time they were in Australia. He was clever, they said, some sort of professor. But, mum said, I don’t know what went wrong. I was talking to him about Numerology and he seemed a bit cross about it. Geez I was only making conversation – with him being a scientist and all I thought he might be interested in talking about numbers. Anyway, I doubt he’ll be coming now. I don’t know if you ever heard of him: Richard Dawkins.

    Well, she gave birth to me. I can hardly hold a grudge for life. But say hi to Richard for me and tell him that I have talked mum out of numerology since then. So can he make friends with my mum again?

  646. #652 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    Preventing people from teaching ID in science class is not the same as ‘banning them from school grounds.’

    Posted by: MartinM

    They don’t even have to be teaching it in science class. ID is essentially banned from being openly discussed anywhere on campus.

  647. #653 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    So funny to see this thread still going strong. Even funnier (much funnier) are the clowns behind this movie. I’m sure they meant to throw PZ out all along and then cower in the corner (you know, like Smeagol did to Sam on the mountaintop) and cry, “Stops him! He’s a meanie! He wants to hurts us!” And their Christian base will buy it, too, because they love shit like that.

    They have only one card to play–the paranoia card. And it’s not even a strategy; it’s a reflex! LOL!

  648. #654 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    Jason- they’re going to claim we censor them anyway, so why not have fun while we’re at it?

  649. #655 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    They don’t even have to be teaching it in science class. ID is essentially banned from being openly discussed anywhere on campus.

    Um way to throw the overly emotional drama in there. Oh and wrong.

    Please give me the policy showing that it can not be discussed on campuses… anywhere.

    GO ahead.

  650. #656 bobg
    March 21, 2008

    Paul:

    Spectacular! I just hope you didn’t injure anything from laughing so hard.

    Folks who wanted a lawsuit:
    Seriously what good do you think that would do, even if Paul were to win? It’d be civil case, and he’d be looking at getting his ‘damages’ back. What, exactly, are his ‘damages’? That he didn’t get in to see a terrible movie that he didn’t have to pay for in the first place? Oh the trauma. Pain and suffering of being discriminated against? What dollar value do you think would be set for that?

    Now if it were me who’d been barred, it might make some sense. Since I’m of no reknown, the suit would bring the perfidy to light, even if I didn’t get more than my lawyer’s fees back.

    As it is, the ‘Expelled’ folks actions _did_ get brought to light, rapidly and widely. They speedily demonstrated themselves to be:
    hypocrites
    liars
    absurd

    The last is particularly valuable. In addition to the Voltaire quote above regarding his prayer, there’s the comment “Sometimes the best argument is a belly laugh.”

    This is a belly laugh for anybody not already committed to support the movie, one that can readily be shared by the folks in the ‘middle’ who tend to buy the ‘teach both sides’ arguments. A lawsuit would only distract.

  651. #657 Pierre
    March 21, 2008

    The whole thing is funny, indeed, and I think PZ did the right thing by not resisting. It shows clearly how noble we atheists can be, when we acknowledge with a smile the stupidity of the creationists. By just saying “OK, so you don’t want me here, I’ll leave”, PZ made his point clearly without getting involved in annoying, uncertain legal matters. A noble gesture, as I said.

    I started reading this thread last night when there were already 250 comments. After I was done with them, I refreshed and got 400. So I kept reading, refreshed, and found the count was at 444. Decided to go to bed. And now there are 804 comments… woh. Impressive.

  652. #658 George Wolf
    March 21, 2008

    As I said on Richard Dawkins’ web sight, your tactic deserves a name.

    I suggest Turning the Other Geek.

  653. #659 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    ID is essentially banned from being openly discussed anywhere on campus.

    Yes, you’re right! Just like it’s banned from being openly discussed anywhere on the internet!

    *eyeroll*

    ID is not taught as a science because it’s not a science. People are free to discuss it as much as they like.

    Next strawman?

  654. #660 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    Um way to throw the overly emotional drama in there. Oh and wrong.

    Please give me the policy showing that it can not be discussed on campuses… anywhere.

    GO ahead.

    Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

  655. #661 Shirley Knott
    March 21, 2008

    Re: #883
    Because there is no content?
    Because it is all a lie, and a scam, as has been discussed on campus and off for years now?

    no hugs for thugs,
    Shirley Knott

  656. #662 Ian
    March 21, 2008

    Isn’t Dawkins working on his new book “Only a Theory” right now? If he hasn’t finished it yet, I’m sure we’ll see something about this in there.

    But what a stinking bunch of festering trash these IDiots are!

    Teach the controversy?

    Let us have a fair say in your science class, but when one of your scientists wants to come see a movie in which he’s taking part, we’ll get some thug to toss him out?

    Just how utterly and hopelessly pathetic can these people become? I guess there are no limits now.

    The story didn’t strike me as that funny but reading everyone’s comments here definitely brought out the giggles! Thanks for an amazing blog, PZ.

  657. #663 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    ID is not taught as a science because it’s not a science. People are free to discuss it as much as they like.

    Posted by: Kseniya

    There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science. Who are you to say they’re wrong? And same question to you as above: if people are free to discuss ID as much as they like, then why isn’t it?

  658. #664 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    Because it’s stupid.

  659. #665 TBTB
    March 21, 2008

    That was hilarious! Incredible!

  660. #666 jessica
    March 21, 2008

    “There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science. Who are you to say they’re wrong?”

    It’s not a falsifiable hypothesis. Therefore it cannot be scientifically supported. Why can’t you knuckle-draggers understand this?

    BTW, PZ, I haven’t laughed like this since the Pivar incident. FREE PZ! Ben Stein is a crackpot!

  661. #667 jim H
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, the irony on the Expelled blog:

    “It’s (EXPELLED) going to appeal strongly to the religious, the paranoid, the conspiracy theorists, and the ignorant — which means they’re going to draw in about 90% of the American market.”
    -Atheist blogger and fabulist PZ Myers, on a film he has not yet seen.

    (and we won’t let him see)

  662. #668 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    I think you can probably answer your own question.

  663. #669 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    Re: #883
    Because there is no content?
    Because it is all a lie, and a scam, as has been discussed on campus and off for years now?

    Because it’s stupid.

    And “reasoning” like that is why there is a movie like “Expelled.” Thank you both for your honest responses.

  664. #670 Jorge
    March 21, 2008

    hahaha That was funny. Those creationists are really stupid.

  665. #671 SteveM
    March 21, 2008

    We’re arguing, not definitions, but the dishonest use of both phrases by the organizers of the event and by the many shameless liars who claim that an event accessible to anyone who pre-registers for admission can possibly be crashed by someone who pre-registered for admission as instructed by the organizers of the event.

    Yes. Notice how the IDiots stress the fact that Myers and Dawkins “had no ticket and were not invited”, while conveniently omitting the fact that no one needed a ticket nor an invitation. Just a pre-registration on the website which PZ did for himself and Dawkins. This way they can claim to be absolutely truthful. Ever hear of “sin of omission”?

  666. #672 Richard Harris
    March 21, 2008

    dsmvwld, Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    Because ID may be summed up as GODDIDIT. ID’s magic, not science. It’s for the closed minds infected by superstition.

  667. #673 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    And “reasoning” like that is why there is a movie like “Expelled.” Thank you both for your honest responses.

    No there is the movie Expelled because you types are famous for your persecution complexes. There is no persecution here it’s about science and output.

    There is no scientific output from the Cdesign proponentsist crowd. Period. The only output is a marketing campaign and this is exactly that.

  668. #674 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    Oh wait… now it’s “taught and discussed” … a moment ago it was “discussed.” Which is it?

    There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science. Who are you to say they’re wrong?

    Oh, now it’s about me? LOL

    Define “plenty.” More than two? Yes, but the number of scientists who disagree is – to put it mildly – overwhelming. However, the fact that ID is not considered to be a science is not because it has failed to win a populartity contest, it’s because it has failed to qualify as a science by any meaningful set of criteria.

  669. #675 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    Here’s a clue for you, dsm: PZ Myers discusses ID in his classes EVERY YEAR. And his students discuss it back. And they all discuss and have a grand old time. That alone brings the lie to your grandiose claims of widespread censorship. Hell, just talking about ID with your fellow students on the campus quad during lunchtime and not being dragged away by security would bring the lie to the statement you made in comment #875.

    But feel free to move the goalposts if you wish.

  670. #676 Lionel A
    March 21, 2008

    Andrew #773

    I’m appalled that (according to the comments here) police in the US can moonlight as security guards WHILE WEARING THEIR UNIFORMS. Bloody hell. Does no one else see the massive potential for abuse of power there?

    You may be discomfited to learn that private security and private military is a fast growing sector in the US with Haliburton and Blackwater in the lead, that latter being the progeny of Christian fundamentalist Erik Prince.

    It does not take much intelligence to fathom where some of the money that supports the ID lobby and also its security apparatus comes from.

  671. #677 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science.

    Biologists? People who actually work in the field?

    Your statement is as truthful as the other crap you guys say:

    There’s a big debate–no there isn’t.

    The theory is in danger–no it isn’t.

    Evolution contradicts the Second Law of Thermodynamics–no it doesn’t.

    There are no transitional fossils—yes there are.

    Radiocarbon dating has been proven to be useless–no it hasn’t

    Etc. etc. etc.

  672. #678 Jason Black
    March 21, 2008

    “Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?”

    Because it’s not science (The “theory” is not falsifiable, so it can be proven neither right nor wrong), that there is no evidence that supports it that cannot be explained with the existing theory, because concepts that “prove” it do not stand up unless you start with accepting ID as true (which is a cyclical argument, a failure in logic), and because it opens the door for whatever instructor teaches it to use it as a soapbox to push his or her own religious beliefs on the students.

    Aside from that, the understandings that we have gained through testing and using the theory of evolution have brought us great benefits and helped us to understand ourselves and our world better. But ID doesn’t do that. It doesn’t grant that possibility of asking more questions; anything unexplained is easily (and lazily) slopped down as “goddidit”, effectively nullifying the whole concept of education.

    ID rewards maintaining mystery rather than the noble pursuit of seeking answers. The results of ID in classrooms will not lead to breakthroughs in science, in medicine, or even in the humanities. In fact, the humanities suffer greatest from ID because it denies the most basic truths about our origins and the makeup of our bodies and therefore our minds.

    This is an aside, but please think about the religious groups that insist that clinical depression or disease can be “prayed away”. By cutting the diseases of the mind and body from their biological and chemical origins, these groups do not treat the actual origins of the pain and prolong the patient’s suffering. And then they blame the suffering on the patient’s lack of faith. That is not helping anyone, but I’ll finish up my point:

    That is why ID is not taught on campuses. There’s nothing preventing its discussion, and in fact it is discussed often by instructors, students, and overzealous washed-out actors. But the fact is that ID is an idea without evidence, without falsifiability, and without any real benefit to humanity–in short, it is not taught because it is an idea with no redeeming qualities.

  673. #679 Geral
    March 21, 2008

    I don’t understand the logic of them expelling you. You’ll undoubtedly rip it a good one in a month, why delay the inevitable?

  674. #680 Damian
    March 21, 2008

    Rev. BigDumbChimp said:

    I have still yet to see an answer to the question of why they wouldn’t want someone who is in the movie to see it let alone why they wouldn’t want anyone to see it.

    I hope that I am wrong, and I am not sure if it’s a problem, anyway, but I am starting to suspect that it may have something to do with that account of the events from Stuart Blessman. He had sent that to the movie review site – which seems to be an off-shoot of the “Christian Today” site – within an hour of the end of the movie, perhaps less.

    That dishonest account, which he has totally contradicted, as I have shown earlier in this thread, is now spreading around various Christian sites, including the Expelled site. To Christians, it seems, that has become the definitive account of what happened (and it obviously portrays PZ in a bad light).

    I doubt that PZ will care, but it all seems to be rather convenient, as well as predictable.

  675. #681 Robert
    March 21, 2008

    Hmmm, no cop’s name, no video, no witnesses… And we should believe this story because…?

    Color me skeptical…

  676. #682 C Murray
    March 21, 2008

    There is no greater truth than this.

    Any theory or belief which does not stand criticism is obviously unworthy of criticism.

    Choose religion, global warming, gravity or how to make creme brulee. If its proponents say it cannot be examined, argued, dissected or reviewed it is because they know it is flawed.

    This should be the motto of all scientist or all who love thought.

    “QUESTION EVERYTHING”

  677. #683 Apikoros
    March 21, 2008

    Hilarious!!

    I only wish they HAD gone in with flashlights and fetched out Dr. Dawkins. No disrespect, PZ, but he is a bit more famous than you and that might have gotten coverage on the cable news shows (unless some Democrat somewhere was having the sex.)

    Please hurry up with the book, PZ! Think of how this could boost your sales!

  678. #684 Elwood Herring
    March 21, 2008

    I don’t usually post on blogs unless I’ve got something to say, but in this case I’ll make an exception if only to add to the number of posts saying:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

  679. #685 CalGeorge
    March 21, 2008

    #886: “There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science.”

    It’s a thought experiment. Nothing more. Propagated by an organization funded principally by ONE man who wants to shove his ignorance down our throats.

    I.D.’s failings have been pointed out in court, in the classroom, in books, and in the blogosphere. Repeatedly.

    Examine the facts, will you, and stop making meaningless assertions.

  680. #686 Ian Maddox
    March 21, 2008

    @ 855:

    Unless the clip to which you refer is the “Sorry, but this video is no longer available” YouTube featured at the top of your blog, you’re lying.

    @ 853:

    My thought was to have everyone sign up with their own names, but show up with PZ masks on.

    @ EC:

    You’re annoying and nonsensical. Please stop using our pixels and go away.

  681. #687 Ian Maddox
    March 21, 2008

    Whoops… Ignore the above, I got ninja’d x50.

  682. #688 Sven DiMilo
    March 21, 2008

    if people are free to discuss ID as much as they like, then why isn’t it?

    Yeah! And if it’s not, then as much as people like, why not discuss them does it? Answer that one!

    Actually, ID is discussed all the time in college courses, and in biology courses as well as in philosophy and, no doubt, religion courses. It’s used mostly as an example, in trying to teach people how to “think like a scientist” by exposing them to the actual process, of how not to do it. It’s a widely used bad example of fake science.
    And while it’s true that there are a few trained scientists who also espouse beliefs in ID, they do not espouse ID for scientific reasons but for other reasons, usually at base religious.

  683. #689 Sastra
    March 21, 2008

    dsmvwld #883 wrote:

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    ID cannot be taught as a valid or even “competing” science theory in the classroom because it has not been properly formed, researched, or supported according to the criteria of ordinary science. In this sense, it is on the same level as astrology. Astrology doesn’t have the evidence behind it. So if a college or university tried to teach astrology as a legitimate science, an “alternative view” of astronomy, they would lose credibility. Same for sponsoring pro-astrology speakers, as part of a science emporium.

    But you can have astrology discussed in history or philosophy class. You can have astrology clubs. You can have astrology talked about in the cafeteria and dorms.

    Don’t conflate being “taught in the classroom” with “being discussed on campuses.” You seem to imply that students are being thrown out of the student union cafe if anyone ‘overhears’ them.

  684. #690 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    If its proponents say it cannot be examined, argued, dissected or reviewed it is because they know it is flawed.

    Creationism/intelligent design has been all those things–that is the reason it is not taught as science.

  685. #691 Joe Clark
    March 21, 2008

    Since when, in a democratic nation, must one “sign in and show ID” to watch a movie?

  686. #692 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    I guess there is no point in getting you to prove that it isn’t allowed to be *discussed*, is there?

    ID theory isn’t taught in science class because – and this is the big secret that the ID proponents don’t tell you – there is NO SUCH THEORY. They have lots of proponents, lawyers, and lobbyists, but few if any researchers or theorists. Try to get someone to state the theory of ID, and it will almost invariably be some variation of “X is so complex I don’t see how it could have evolved”.

    A few have tried to go farther and prove that X (the bacterial flagellum or whatever) couldn’t have evolved. So far, such attempts have failed, but that is beside the point. Because even if it succeeded, all it would accomplish is to disprove some facet of *evolution*. ID is all about *evolution*, holes in evolution, “strengths and weaknesses of evolution”, alternative to evolution. It is not a theory in its own right. Without evolution, there is no ID.

    That’s not to say that there couldn’t be such a theory. But nobody seems to be putting any effort into developing one.

  687. #693 Geral
    March 21, 2008

    Hmmm, no cop’s name, no video, no witnesses… And we should believe this story because…?

    Color me skeptical…

    Because PZ would skip the movie, in which he stars, to harass a cop and get thrown out. Have you looked at the picture of the man? No offense PZ, but he’s a balding, overweight academic who is a professor at a state University.

    Somehow, I don’t see him as the trouble type.

  688. #694 Lurky
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, how I laughed!

    #840 Sums it up perfectly.

  689. #695 scote
    March 21, 2008

    So now we are arguing over the definition of the word “crashed” and whether it was a “by invitation only” event?
    Don’t forget to see Dawkins and Myers clips from the movie here:
    http://forerunner.com/blog
    It’s by invitation only! You are all invited!
    Posted by: Jay Rogers | March 21, 2008 11:35 AM

    Hmm…They refuse to release the entirety of the interviews but they give DVD’s of selected clips to yahoos like you.

    As to “crashed,” you know full well that **signing up on a public website under your real name and being sent a confirmation email** cannot possibly be considered crashing an invitation only event. That is not crashing and the event was not “invitation only.”

  690. #696 Ian Maddox
    March 21, 2008

    @ 903:

    There are bloggers on both sides of this debate posting about the farce PZ experienced. The truth of the matter is not open to debate. Unfortunately, truth doesn’t really seem to faze some people…

    It happened. The ID contingent have egg on their faces and are wildly prevaricating to minimize the damage. Color you foolish.

  691. #697 Kevin
    March 21, 2008

    PZ! You can’t hide the truth!

    “The Truth”

  692. #698 Elwood Herring
    March 21, 2008

    Jason Black @ 900: Excellent explanation. Of course it has to be explained again and again and never seems to sink in.

    “Never underestimate the power of human stupidity” – Heinlein

  693. #699 Rebecca
    March 21, 2008

    The goons of Expelled might offer advice on how to deal with reason to the People’s Republic of China… because propaganda directed towards Tibet’s peace movement almost always makes them appear more ridiculous and insane.

    http://www.dalailama.com/news.htm

  694. #700 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Hmmm, no cop’s name, no video, no witnesses… And we should believe this story because…? Color me skeptical…

    Sorry, I can’t find quite the right color in my paintbox.

    There were witnessess. Some have posted right here on this thread, and you’ll fine links to other accounts also posted here.

    I guess “Glancing at something and forming an opinion without doing even a trivial amount of research or investigation” is what passes for skepticism these days.

  695. #701 gregwrld
    March 21, 2008

    Good work, PZ! I’m looking forward to Richard Dawkins comments.
    And the comments of the creos here are so clueless – no surprise there.

  696. #702 Joe.B
    March 21, 2008

    You’ve successfully laughed me into tears PZ.

  697. #703 Mark
    March 21, 2008

    Hi–I’m not an attorney, but if you want to pursue legal action against the theater, or the producer — think of the PR! — I’d be happy to help out from here in California. I can make phone calls, etc, email, etc…

  698. #704 bourgeois_rage
    March 21, 2008

    Awesome. Hilarious. Thank you for this, PZ.

  699. #705 Mark
    March 21, 2008

    I mean, I know the Mall of America is private property, etc., and so is the movie theater, etc., but again, think of the PR!

  700. #706 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    That dishonest account, which he has totally contradicted, as I have shown earlier in this thread, is now spreading around various Christian sites, including the Expelled site. To Christians, it seems, that has become the definitive account of what happened (and it obviously portrays PZ in a bad light).

    It’s really no shock that a lie from the Cdesign proponentsists camp is what is being spread. It’s par for the course for them.

    Poor baby Jesus. Crying by himself over in the corner.

  701. #707 Hey guys
    March 21, 2008

    Can you tell me a basic book that would help me get started on evolution? Just curious. Thanks.

  702. #708 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    Poor baby Jesus. Crying by himself over in the corner.

    Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Will some please feed Baby Jesus or change his diaper. Whatever needs to be done. Damn but the screaming is annoying!

  703. #709 cassandran
    March 21, 2008

    Creationism and Intelligent Design is actually a complex, long-duration plot by Al Qaeda designed to reduce the ability of Americans to think clearly and logically in accordance with the scientific method. When ID becomes paramount in all schools, the American people will be even more ignorant than they are already and will be easy meat for takeover by fundamentalism to their detriment and enslavement, to the reduction of American power, status and influence throughout the world, to the fear and incredulity of the America’s friends and the glee and triumph of her enemies.

  704. #710 kevin
    March 21, 2008

    Can you tell me a basic book that would help me get started on evolution? Just curious. Thanks.
    Posted by: Hey guys | March 21, 2008 12:59 PM

    YES! THE BIBLE!

    heh heh….or maybe go here

    http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/grow/

  705. #711 decrepitoldfool
    March 21, 2008

    Can you tell me a basic book that would help me get started on evolution? Just curious. Thanks

    Berkeley has a very nice introductory website: Understanding Evolution.

    (heading for 1,000 comments)

  706. #712 JohnW
    March 21, 2008

    This has to be the latest I’ve ever showed up to a party. It would have been sooner, but it’s taken me nearly twenty minutes to stop laughing. Best creationist own-goal since Behe at the Dover trial.

  707. #713 Duncan D'Nuts
    March 21, 2008

    “There is a rich, deep kind of irony that must be shared. I’m blogging this from the Apple store in the Mall of America…”

    A lesser irony is the underlying OS that PZ was using to write this entry:

    http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/index.html

  708. #715 Snog
    March 21, 2008

    UNBELIEVABLE! No really I don’t believe you. You are trying to tell us that you are important enough to the cause that a publicly funded police officer would keep you out of a public theater where you were going to be embarassed by your own words in a movie. Unbelieveable. I like the idea of your dungeon so that your readers only view comments that are praising or supportive. Makes your site look like everyone agrees with you. Common tactic with folks who are nervous about their position.

  709. #716 machinehuman
    March 21, 2008

    They are so “clever”. Very funny situation!

  710. #717 flasher702
    March 21, 2008

    You should have insisted they arrest you. They notability would have been well worth a night in the slammer.

  711. #718 R. Mildred
    March 21, 2008

    The “theory” is not falsifiable, so it can be proven neither right nor wrong

    Well actually the basis for ID was Natural Theology, which did have a central falsifiable aspect to it – and a sound version of ID should inherit that falsifiable aspect.

    The trouble is that the falsifiable bit basically goes like this; if you find a watch in the road, you would surmise that it was made by somebody, who sat down and decided he wanted to make a watch, and who then maybe sold it to someone, who in turn dropped the watch there – all because there’s no mechanism by which something as complex as a watch could otherwise exist.

    So if you pick up a creature, an ant, a cat, a pygmy elephant, it is safe to say that something must have designed it as well because there’s no mechanism other than by intelligent design by which such a complex thing could possibly exist.

    So to falsify natural theology, all you have to do is posit a mechanism by which such a complex a thing as a cat, an ant or a pygmy elephant could exist without bringing god into…

    Which is why natural evolution replaced natural theology when darwin whipped it out, and why ID shouldn’t be taught in schools outside of a “history of the sciences” class, where it’d fit in between phlogiston and the luminous aether.

    The troubling fact that ID also has the side effect of completely retarding scientific progress (because when faced with a question about how a biological mechanism occurs, in say microbiology, “god did it” is quite possibly the least helpful postulate imaginable) is just an added reason not to treat it like a currently valid theory.

    Of course Evolutionary Psychology has a habit of going to the extreme in the opposite direction and positing that everything, including literary critcism, can be improved by just declaring that whatever the subject is, it must, some way and some how, be the result of biological evolution.

    Even when Occam’s Razor would suggest otherwise and commonsense bursts into tears in despair at the thought.

  712. #719 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    UNBELIEVABLE! No really I don’t believe you. You are trying to tell us that you are important enough to the cause that a publicly funded police officer would keep you out of a public theater where you were going to be embarassed by your own words in a movie. Unbelieveable. I like the idea of your dungeon so that your readers only view comments that are praising or supportive. Makes your site look like everyone agrees with you. Common tactic with folks who are nervous about their position.

    You obviously don’t come here often.

  713. #720 Duncan D'Nuts
    March 21, 2008

    @Snog…

    “UNBELIEVABLE!”

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  714. #721 Ferrous Patella
    March 21, 2008

    Gary B. @498, “Ferrous, you’ve never ROTFLMAO or LOL at t.o.?”

    [Captain Corcoran vox]
    Hardly ever!
    [/ccv]

    A quick Google search shows that this is a close as I have come: http://tinyurl.com/24yy6y

  715. #722 DanBlather
    March 21, 2008

    Richard Dawkins gives Expelled: “Two opposable thumbs down”.

  716. #723 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    UNBELIEVABLE!

    And the laughs just keep coming!

  717. #724 Grolaw
    March 21, 2008

    I believe that you have been denied a public accommodation due to your “religious beliefs” or lack thereof.

    Check with the state’s Human Rights agency. I’d be pretty certain that excluding you for you lack of religious belief is a pretty clean action.

    I know that in Missouri a Chinese restaurant that excluded two deaf individuals and their friend (who used ASL to communicate) from the restaurant because of their disability had a very unpleasant day in court.

    The Revised Statutes of Missouri, Chapter 213 state:

    213.065. 1. All persons within the jurisdiction of the state of Missouri are free and equal and shall be entitled to the full and equal use and enjoyment within this state of any place of public accommodation, as hereinafter defined, without discrimination or segregation on the grounds of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, ancestry, or disability.

    2. It is an unlawful discriminatory practice for any person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from or deny any other person, or to attempt to refuse, withhold from or deny any other person, any of the accommodations, advantages, facilities, services, or privileges made available in any place of public accommodation, as defined in section 213.010 and this section, or to segregate or discriminate against any such person in the use thereof on the grounds of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, ancestry, or disability.

    3. The provisions of this section shall not apply to a private club, a place of accommodation owned by or operated on behalf of a religious corporation, association or society, or other establishment which is not in fact open to the public, unless the facilities of such establishments are made available to the customers or patrons of a place of public accommodation as defined in section 213.010 and this section.

    I am certain that the theater violated a similar statute – and, they may well have violated the terms of their leasehold with the Mall of America. Theaters are low-profit spaces and most busy malls are eliminating them whenever possible. This could do the trick.

    Make a complaint to the state agency. Usually that statute of limitations is only 180 days to make the complaint. I costs nothing to start the administrative investigation….

  718. #725 Vin Breau
    March 21, 2008

    Oh snap! I just saw Mr. Dawkins give a lecture at UT 3 days ago. He was asked about this movie, told us he had not seen it but had been duped into appearing in it under false pretenses. I’m so glad to hear he got in.

  719. #726 True Bob
    March 21, 2008

    Snog, you aren’t paying attention.

    PZ hasn’t tried to identify WHY he was expelled, although we could all suppose it is because he is an unforgiving critic of creationism/ID, extending to the IDiotic way they created this flick.

    When cops are off duty doing this type of work (i.e. controlling events, traffic etc.), they are paid by the folks who need their services.

    Also, the dungeon has plenty of empty space. Have you read all these comments? Then how do you get the impression “everyone” agrees with PZ? From time to time, even PZ’s sycophants disagree with him.

  720. #727 catta
    March 21, 2008

    Hardly ever!

    [crew]He’s hardly ever El-Oh-Eeeelled…[/crew]

    Three cheers +1 for you! Now back to the gatecrashing. =)

  721. #728 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “I’m not an attorney, but if you want to pursue legal action against the theater, or the producer — think of the PR!”

    We have all the PR we need from this. No need to martyr PZ any further.

    “You should have insisted they arrest you. They notability would have been well worth a night in the slammer.”

    No. It wouldn’t.

    Come on, people. This is already all over the blogosphere, and once Dawkins appears on Bill Maher, it will probably be on the TV as well. All the egg on the face that Expelled needs, and without any over-dramatic gestures or wasted police or court time.

    Seriously, get some perspective.

  722. #729 xcdesignproponentsists
    March 21, 2008

    Being in Canada, I’m not sure when I’ll be able to waste a tenner on Expelled. However, I was watching Ben Stein being interviewed by Pat Robertson, and he comes across as being a complete moron. For starters, he makes the absurd claim that “Darwinism” leads to the belief that “superior races have it as their moral duty to eliminate the lesser races”. Yeah, only if you’re a complete douchebag who slept through your high school biology classes. Perhaps the “solution” is not ID, but a bit of common sense.
    He then goes on to claim that “Darwinism” doesn’t explain anything, and as an example he says “it doesn’t explain how gravity holds the planets together in their orbits” or “how thermodynamics works” or “how physics or laws of motion work”. No shit, Stein. Perhaps somebody lied to you about what evolutionary biology claims to explain and you were gullible enough to believe it, but don’t assume everybody else does not allow intelligence when it comes to understanding simple facts.

  723. #730 Jewel
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, that’s brilliant!!! And by that I mean — BRILLIANT!!! ROFLMAO!

  724. #731 szqc
    March 21, 2008

    Best Thread Ever! From the whole event, the initial LOL and ROFLing, the trolls, the trolls getting a can of whoop-ass handed to them, through Cuttlefish’s best rhyme ever, Rev BigDumbChimp getting in some excellent anti-Tard, Kristine’s analysis and so on.

    Never mind 1000 responses; let’s go for *1859* responses and then raise a glass to Charles D. :)

  725. #732 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    I’m not an attorney, but if you want to pursue legal action against the theater, or the producer — think of the PR!

    I am thinking of it. That’s why I hope he doesn’t do it.

  726. #733 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “I am certain that the theater violated a similar statute – and, they may well have violated the terms of their leasehold with the Mall of America. Theaters are low-profit spaces and most busy malls are eliminating them whenever possible. This could do the trick. ”

    Get the whole MOVIE THEATER kicked out of the mall because of some silly incident with a private-ish screening? Like, I said, PERSPECTIVE. Get some.

  727. #734 Jesse
    March 21, 2008

    SWEET ZOMBIE JESUS!!!

    The hypocrisy is suffocating!!!

    The whole basis of this pile of diarrhea marketed as ‘Expelled’ is the bias against teaching ID/Creationism and here we have the movie management refusing to let the ‘other side’ even see it?

    If there was any doubt about how dishonest, childish, and spineless creationists are……

  728. #735 True Bob
    March 21, 2008

    “superior races have it as their moral duty to eliminate the lesser races”

    Not even wrong.

    When I was back in college (yes, we had pterodactyls) we had one mandatory philosophy course (engineering school). It was basically a historical review, with an emphasis that we not go build death machines. You know, that design award means crap if it is for designing gas chambers for Treblinka/Buchenwald/etc.

  729. #736 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “Snog, you aren’t paying attention.”

    He’s an obvious hit-and-runner. Don’t even bother.

  730. #737 Scote
    March 21, 2008

    From time to time, even PZ’s sycophants disagree with him.

    Damn disloyal sycophants. Can’t someone get a **proper** sycophant around here??? Now where could someone go to find people who will always reflexivly agree, even when faced with insurmountable evidence of their error? **cough**DI**cough**

  731. #738 K
    March 21, 2008

    “It’s (EXPELLED) going to appeal strongly to the religious, the paranoid, the conspiracy theorists, and the ignorant — which means they’re going to draw in about 90% of the American market.”
    -Atheist blogger and fabulist PZ Myers, on a film he has not yet seen

    —-Just saw this on the expelled website. I guess they didn’t want you to see it so they can pretend your comments don’t matter?

  732. #739 Rich Hudson
    March 21, 2008

    Congratulations! You just made it into Dawkins’s next book.

  733. #740 Jesse
    March 21, 2008

    Maybe someone should ask why Stuart Blessman lied about PZ’s behavior.

    bless023@umn.edu

  734. #741 Scote
    March 21, 2008

    “-Atheist blogger and fabulist PZ Myers”

    Funny, I thought they interviewed PZ Myers **for the film** because he is an expert **evolutionary biologist.**

  735. #742 James F
    March 21, 2008

    #886 dsmvwld wrote:
    There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science. Who are you to say they’re wrong?

    #889 jessica wrote:
    It’s not a falsifiable hypothesis. Therefore it cannot be scientifically supported.

    #896 Kseniya wrote:
    Define “plenty.” More than two? Yes, but the number of scientists who disagree is – to put it mildly – overwhelming. However, the fact that ID is not considered to be a science is not because it has failed to win a populartity contest, it’s because it has failed to qualify as a science by any meaningful set of criteria.

    #899 RamblinDude wrote:
    Biologists? People who actually work in the field?
    Your statement is as truthful as the other crap you guys say:
    There’s a big debate–no there isn’t.
    The theory is in danger–no it isn’t.
    Evolution contradicts the Second Law of Thermodynamics–no it doesn’t.
    There are no transitional fossils—yes there are.
    Radiocarbon dating has been proven to be useless–no it hasn’t
    Etc. etc. etc.

    #907 CalGeorge wrote:
    It’s a thought experiment. Nothing more. Propagated by an organization funded principally by ONE man who wants to shove his ignorance down our throats.
    I.D.’s failings have been pointed out in court, in the classroom, in books, and in the blogosphere. Repeatedly.

    Well done, guys. All I have to add is “Project Steve” and this query:

    The ID movement has never succeeded in publishing a peer-reviewed research paper in any of the journals indexed at the National Library of Medicine, which currently encompasses over SEVENTEEN MILLION citations. Amongst these citations the theory of evolution, on the other hand, has never been disproved. NLM covers all branches of the life sciences, and needless to say a paper providing evidence against evolution would receive a huge amount of attention. So what’s the problem? There are two possibilities:

    1. ID is based on religious belief and supernatural causation, not science.
    2. A concerted worldwide effort by research scientists, scientific journal editors, educators, and the media has unjustly prevented a single valid ID manuscript from being published.

    (The NLM has a public database, too)

  736. #743 Eric
    March 21, 2008

    Dawkins mentioned the humorous story during his lecture today at the American Atheists Conference in Minneapolis. Although I could have sworn he said you were “arrested”. Were you?! Maybe he just meant “accosted”?

  737. #744 Chemist99a
    March 21, 2008

    That is the best laugh I have had in years. Too bad you did not have more “guests” at hand!

  738. #745 Vic
    March 21, 2008

    @ Ian (908)

    My thought was to have everyone sign up with their own names, but show up with PZ masks on.

    I could see that as a Life-of-Brian-does-Spartacus moment:

    (Police officer comes up to ticket line) “Okay, Who here is PZ Myers – we’re going to throw him out.”

    “I’m PZ Myers.”

    “No, I’m PZ Myers!”

    “I’m PZ Myers, and so’s my wife!”

  739. #746 Jim from San Diego
    March 21, 2008

    #964 James F:
    Forgot a third possibility (or added it to no 1) There is no empirical evidence for ID / creationism. None.

    It is not for lack of trying. A good indicator of their frustrations: since ID/creationists can not produce the evidence, they have resorted to distortions, quote mining, and of course outright lying.

  740. #747 Kevin
    March 21, 2008

    EYEWITNESS REPORTS CONTRADICT Meyer’s Lies:

    “Other reports list tens, possibly hundreds dead from Dawkins as he ran threw the theater attacking movie goers with his teeth. Hamstrung by various hate crime laws the police had to stand by helplessly as Dawkins sated his ghoulish thirst for human blood by tearing the throats out of patrons. Dawkins then looked over the writing, broken bodies of his victims, screamed “Were is your God now?” and ran off into the night.

    On report explains the mystery man who distracted police from Dawkins presence was none other than infamous atheist blogger PZ Meyers. Meyers was reportedly attempting to sell his daughter Skatje Meyers to passing strangers when police were forced to intervene.

    This report is another warning to us TRUE Christians must always be on our guard since terrorist can strike at any moment. Yesterday it was a bunch of false Christians in the state no one cares about, today it might be you. Remember no one is safe when atheists are on the lose.

    The only way to be safe people is to be aware and be with Jesus.”

  741. #748 BlueIndependent
    March 21, 2008

    As I predicted, the Creatins and IDiots have gone ahead and fabricated their group-savvy media whine-fest that PZ and Dawkins entered unbeknownst an uninvited to rain on the Expelled parade.

    I’ll take my $1 million of Monopoly money in large bills, preferably delivered in an aluminum briefcase.

  742. #749 Torley
    March 21, 2008

    Creationists get egg on their face!

    *cue evolutionary egg jokes*

    /me is curious to hear what R. Dawkins thinks of all of this.

  743. #750 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    Kevin: If you’re feeling disoriented, you can always take the tinfoil hat off.

  744. #751 Elwood Herring
    March 21, 2008

    Who are these “scientists” who consider ID to be science? I want them named and shamed! (I’m in the UK so I’m not as familiar with ID proponents as you are in the US, but I’m learning…)

    It just shows what a great deal of damage can be done by “fence-sitters” in this game. Any so-called “scientist” who believes such rubbish is not worthy of being called a scientist. ID IS NOT SCIENCE! I’m just a humble musician and I understand that. These trouble-makers (for that’s what they are) should reconsider their views and fall in with the rest of the Science community. Then the ID’ers will have one less plank (and a major one to boot) to hold them up.

  745. #752 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    I’m sorry! I just skimmed through the last part of that. Now I feel stupid. Mea culpa.

  746. #753 Duncan D'Nuts
    March 21, 2008

    So, PZ, now you know how Adam feels.

    (that damned Tree Of Knowledge will get you every time!)

    I do like the idea of making up PZ Myers masks for future viewings. Unfortunately, the real PZ is probably wary of this ersatz martyr movement and all the (blog) publicity, but that’s the price of prominence.

    One other trick I read elsewhere for would-be viewers:

    Some theaters still use generic tickets for admission (I wouldn’t know, because I haven’t been to a mainstream theater in years). If so, you could consider buying a ticket for a different movie that you do support, while ‘accidentally’ walking into the one showing Expelled. Think of it as another way to Win Ben Stein’s Money.

  747. #754 Daniel J. Petrie
    March 21, 2008

    Well, I did laugh at the punch line – that they missed kicking out Richard Dawkins. But I’m afraid I’m not as dignified as you. I didn’t find this story funny at all. I found it very upsetting.

    All the producer probably had to do was tell the officer “that man is an atheist,” and then the officer’s own prejudice about what that word means for a person would do the rest. When people hear you’re an atheist, they have a reaction kind of like if they’d heard you were a pedophile or a neo-Nazi. “He’s an atheist. He must be a bad person! I’d best kick him out before he starts trouble!”

    It reminds me of the days when I went to a church youth group and a police officer came to us to talk about his work busting up satanic cults and stuff. He had a whole table full of paraphernalia – animal skulls, knives and chalices, voodoo dolls, the works. And he told us about certain rock groups and what their names “really” meant (you may know some of them: Knights In Satan’s Service [KISS] Antichrist/Devil’s Children [AC/DC]. There are more). On the one hand, as a young Christian kid I found that stuff kind of scary, but even then my skepticism was tapping me on the shoulder saying “wait, the POLICE are spending official time and money on this nonsense???”

  748. #755 cicely
    March 21, 2008

    Total awesomeness. Epic Win.

    And, applause for Cuttlefish. “Like a Trojan Eohippus”. Brilliant!

  749. #756 Dr. Matt
    March 21, 2008

    Expelled from Expelled: it’s all just so perfect, I had to check the calendar to make sure it wasn’t April 1st.

  750. #757 Sastra
    March 21, 2008

    Eric #965 wrote:

    Dawkins mentioned the humorous story during his lecture today at the American Atheists Conference in Minneapolis. Although I could have sworn he said you were “arrested”. Were you?! Maybe he just meant “accosted”?

    I’m just guessing here, but if Dawkins did use the word “arrested” it could be another instance of language differences. One meaning of the word “arrested” is “stopped” — Myers was stopped at the entrance. I think this usage is more common in England.

    If this is the case, expect to see creationists taking advantage of the linguistic confusion, and making claims that Richard Dawkins is lying and making false accusations about what happened when his party tried to crash the church during a private worship service.

    Oh, wait. I mean when Dawkins and his friends tried to get into a public screening of a movie for which they had previously registered. My bad.

  751. #758 Carlie
    March 21, 2008

    Ok, I know it’s been awhile since this comment, but I can’t resist.

    It would be no different if you tried to crash an advance test screening of Indiana Jones or Star Trek except the security would have been tighter.

    It would only be comparable if it was Harrison Ford who was kicked out of an advance test screening of Indiana Jones, and he was kicked out specifically because the producer didn’t want him to know that he re-cut all of the taped scenes into something called “Indiana Jones’ Diary”, a movie about how he wants to get married but can’t ever find a date. And even then it’s missing the beautiful ironic component.

  752. #759 BadMA
    March 21, 2008

    PZ must just look meaner than some of the other skeptics. This is an utter amusing story, but I feel sorry for Dr. Dawkins! He had to watch the thing!

  753. #760 Fatboy
    March 21, 2008

    Hilarious story. (Plus, I’m doing my part to get this up to 1000 comments.)

  754. #761 Adam
    March 21, 2008

    Here’s clip of the movie on youtube with PZ and Dawkins. Hurry before the copyright cops have it removed!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX2HORTRm4I

  755. #762 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    #967: “Welease Wichawd Dawkins!”

  756. #763 Haddayr
    March 21, 2008

    This is the second idiotic Megamall security guard story I’ve heard in as many months.

    The last was the security guards banning a bunch of people who planned on standing completely still for a few minutes, simultaneously.

    VERY DANGEROUS!

    Even more dangerous, apparently, than Richard Dawkins. snrk.

  757. #764 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, what the hell, going for 1000…

    Come on, people. This is already all over the blogosphere, and once Dawkins appears on Bill Maher, it will probably be on the TV as well. All the egg on the face that Expelled needs, and without any over-dramatic gestures or wasted police or court time.

    Seriously, get some perspective.

    Exactly.

    PZ did exactly the right thing. He wasn’t fighting for somebody’s life, or taking a stand against an unjust law; he was just standing in line to view the screening of a movie made by creationists, people who have a long track record of being the most contemptible liars.

    By remaining calm and perfectly reasonable–affable and obliging even –they end up looking ridiculous. They were exposed as the hypocritical, deceitful, paranoid cowards that they are. It is a priceless object lesson, and few things could have better highlighted the difference between religious fundamentalism and science.

    As I predicted, the Creatins and IDiots have gone ahead and fabricated their group-savvy media whine-fest that PZ and Dawkins entered unbeknownst an uninvited to rain on the Expelled parade.

    I’ll take my $1 million of Monopoly money in large bills, preferably delivered in an aluminum briefcase.

    And I’ll bet Park Place that even if they do hear the truth, it won’t make any difference to them. They’ll continue to ward him off with the sign of the cross with exactly the same fervor.

    This is the second idiotic Megamall security guard story I’ve heard in as many months.
    The last was the security guards banning a bunch of people who planned on standing completely still for a few minutes, simultaneously.

    VERY DANGEROUS!

    LOL!

  758. #765 Anonymous
    March 21, 2008

    987! Only 13 more!

  759. #766 Marcos El Malo
    March 21, 2008

    Just doing my bit to push this up to 1000. PZ, this would have been hilarious anyway,but you told the story very well. Awesome noodly set up.

  760. #767 hexaton
    March 21, 2008

    Where are the ID scientists?

    Back up the ass the nitwit pulled them out of.

  761. #768 Carlie
    March 21, 2008

    The last was the security guards banning a bunch of people who planned on standing completely still for a few minutes, simultaneously.

    Was that the ImprovEverywhere group?

  762. #769 rmp
    March 21, 2008

    Admit it, every one here is hoping to be the 1000′th comment.

  763. #770 Amanda
    March 21, 2008

    This made my day. Yay PZ! Well handled!

  764. #771 Jimmy K
    March 21, 2008

    All of these posts for an irrelevant movie and some inane oversight by a theater manager and officer?

    I’ve heard funnier better stories from inanimate objects.

    You all need to get out more.

  765. #772 anonymous
    March 21, 2008
    where's woot?
    
  766. #773 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    Myers/Dawkins ’12

  767. #774 M. Robert Bond
    March 21, 2008

    ooh, AABCCB form. Awesome. Cuttlefishtastic.

    I was almost tempted to attempt a limerick, but it’s best to leave this sort of thing to the undercover professionals.

  768. #775 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    Myers/Dawkins ’12

  769. #776 Avekid
    March 21, 2008

    All of these posts for an irrelevant movie and some inane oversight by a theater manager and officer?

    I’ve heard funnier better stories from inanimate objects.

    You all need to get out more.

    First, if you’re hearing stories from inanimate objects (and reporting that fact on other people’s blogs) it might be you who needs to get out more.

    Second, the way you described it? Unfunny. You also missed the point. The way PZ described it? Fucking hilarious!

    (Keep working on that 1000!)

  770. #777 Dr. Mabuse
    March 21, 2008

    Wow…

    I don’t have many heroes, but you PZ Meyers are one among them. Along with ERV and Dawkins. And Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan…

  771. #778 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    Am I 1000?

  772. #779 rmp
    March 21, 2008

    DING DING DING DING DING

    we have a winner!

  773. #780 kathy
    March 21, 2008

    Sounds like a “worst person in the world” scenario to me.

  774. #781 Auntie Em
    March 21, 2008

    OK – fess up, which wiseguy/gal did this
    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2260/2350566174_c8d94c51a7_o.jpg
    ?

    That’s not the original site banner, right? And it’s not my photoshop skills either.

    The hacked banner was on this page at about 19.11 GMT, on 21st March:

    http://rsvp.getexpelled.com/events/events/list

  775. #782 Michelle
    March 21, 2008

    1000 COMMENTS! YAY!!!
    Wow, this HAS to be the biggest thread I ever seen! And it deserves it.

    Oh, did you guys see what the BA posted?
    http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/03/21/creationism-evolution-and-nazis-yes-nazis/

  776. #783 blf
    March 21, 2008

    Am I 1000?

    I am a number! I am not a free man!!

  777. #784 kevin
    March 21, 2008

    Kevin: If you’re feeling disoriented, you can always take the tinfoil hat off.Posted by: Skwee | March 21, 2008 2:08 PM

    I am just repeating the true story of what happened.

  778. #785 BadMA
    March 21, 2008

    Jimmy K, you’re missing 99.9% of the back story. Go read the last few years worth of posts and then it will make more sense.

  779. #786 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Never mind 1000 responses; let’s go for *1859* responses and then raise a glass to Charles D.

    Da! And then, in honor of Sir Arthur, we can rocket up to 2001.

  780. #787 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    Thank you all! I don’t know who to thank 1st- PZ, Richard, the Expelled people, the other commenters on this thread… This is awesome! I, Skwee, have made Pharyngula history as the 1000th commenter! This is the greatest day of my e-life!

    I want concession speeches now. (:

  781. #788 zer0
    March 21, 2008

    I don’t see what you’re trying to point out in that picture Auntie Em… what exactly was “hacked”?

  782. #789 Nullifidian
    March 21, 2008

    OK – fess up, which wiseguy/gal did this
    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2260/2350566174_c8d94c51a7_o.jpg
    ?

    That’s not the original site banner, right? And it’s not my photoshop skills either.

    The hacked banner was on this page at about 19.11 GMT, on 21st March:

    http://rsvp.getexpelled.com/events/events/list

    Assuming you’re referring to “No intelligence allowed”, that’s been their tagline from the beginning. It’s not a hack; it’s meant to carry a double meaning: that the ‘Darwinists’ will not allow intelligent design into classrooms, and that they refuse to admit ‘intelligent’ critiques of evolutionary biology.

    What it ends up suggesting, in light of this debacle, is that they’re intending on keeping intelligent people out. It’s no hack, just another creationist own-goal.

  783. #790 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    “If you’d stop treating them like idiots, maybe some of them would actually listen to what you have to say. Oddly enough, people tend to not listen to what you have to say when you’re an ass.”

    —Wow, why didn’t we think of this? You know, I’m going to go visit the local skinhead group and actually listen to what they have to say. Maybe if I make them understand that they have lots of valid points we can finally all get along and start beating up black people and gays bathed in the warm glow of togetherness.

    You, my good man, are a fucking moron. I call you a fucking moron because you believe in things that have no evidence. That doesn’t make me a bad person. That makes me a person who understands that people who believe in things for which there is no evidence are fucking morons.

  784. #791 Auntie Em
    March 21, 2008

    I take it back – I hadn’t seen the site before abd I didn’t realise that “No Intelligence Allowed” is actually part of the title! It never ocurred to me for a minute that this would be the title of the film – I assumed someone was passing judgement on its content. My apologies!

    Oh my word- the makers of this film really are blind to irony aren’t they!

  785. #792 Nullifidian
    March 21, 2008

    I don’t see what you’re trying to point out in that picture Auntie Em… what exactly was “hacked”?

    As I said in a post which is currently being held in the spamcatcher, due to my quoting AuntieEm’s post in full without thinking about those two URLs…

    I think what AuntieEm is thinking of as a hack is the tagling “No intelligence allowed”. The tagline was meant, I believe, to indicate that the ‘Darwinists’ are not allowing intelligent design, with the added implication that they’re not allowing intelligent critiques of evolution.

    In the context of an interviewee and professional biologist being kicked out of the theatre, it takes on the connotation that the IDiots are keeping all the intelligent people out, but that’s not a hack, only a creationist own-goal.

  786. #793 Nullifidian
    March 21, 2008

    Wow. That’s some rapid turnaround from the spamcatcher. PZ must be online right now.

  787. #794 Archvillain
    March 21, 2008

    I just saw a blog over on wordpress where some fundieloonie spoke about this. This person was complaining about Dawkins’ presence at the screening. According to the author, Dawkins asked why PZ had been evicted. The author was also incensed that Dawkins had managed to “crash” the screening.

  788. #795 Silly Old Bear
    March 21, 2008

    Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?

    Oh YES – we are

  789. #796 Jason Black
    March 21, 2008

    Only thing about the “faked” site that bothered me is that there’s a screening in Fayetteville, AR.

    I’m ready for them to put it in Little Rock. This little gem of a movie is going to do almost as much for fighting religiofascism as any of the four horsemen’s works, just by showing exactly how nutty this kind of thinking can be.

    We oughta make Ben Stein the Fifth Horseman. He does so much for our cause…

  790. #797 Paul Hassell
    March 21, 2008

    Hi all from Canada.

    Monsieur PZ, You were in the largest consumerist mall in the world, what kind of science or religion were you expecting to find? Although religion is terribly messed up in America and especially in the media, less than 5% of the Christians I’ve met believe in “Creationism” as American fundies do.
    My sympathies (or rather congrats on the notoriety), but the wacko fundie filmmaker is only representative of wacko fundies, not historic, orthodox Christianity. The posts have a strong scent of self-righteousness, so I’m guessing y’all don’t realize Richard Dawkins is, by the strict definition, another kind of fundamentalist? From my reading, his books emanate the same baleful hatefulness and superiority complex as the fundies do, but a lot more sarcasm. Dawkins says Christianity has caused more deaths that anything else in the 20th century, neatly excluding his fellow-atheists, Stalin and Hitler. Narrow-minded is narrow-minded is narrow-minded. — Or are you going to expel me?

  791. #798 Avekid
    March 21, 2008

    Skwee: Looks like you just got your 15 minutes. Don’t worry, I won’t make you do a concession speech. ;) (I’ll probably be bumped in a minute or two anyway!)

  792. #799 Voss
    March 21, 2008

    This reminds me of Bertrand Russell being arrested at a demonstration and the jailer, filling out forms, asked him “Religion?” Russell stated “I am an agnostic” to which the jailer replied “Well, I guess we all worship the same god.” Russell wrote “This kept me smiling for about a week.” The superstitious, the credulous, are to my mind insecure in a larger sense, and so they react (when people react instead of think they generally overreact) out of fear and do this sort of thing. When Dawkins signed his book for me at CalTech, he admired the t-shirt I was wearing, reading “If you believe the meek will inherit the Earth you’re just where they want you” and I gave him one – a more gracious man you’ll never meet. Working for lawyers I’ve met more than one “educated idiot” – it’s bugging me what I read in a blurb last month, that Stein had pulled a nasty trick on some political group – please, if someone remembers reading this, post, it’s driving me bonkers that I can’t recall who, what, how! Thanks! “RELIGION DIVIDES – ATHEISTS MULTIPLY” “RATIONAL INTELLIGENT AND FREE OF SUPERSTITION – GOSH – I HOPE NOBODY FINDS OUT” (c)

  793. #800 Adam
    March 21, 2008

    Paul,

    Dawkins isn’t a fundamentalist. He just thinks people should believe things based on evidence and not blind faith.

    Do you have a source for where Dawkins states that Christianity was responsible for the most deaths in the 20th century?

  794. #801 Brownian, OM
    March 21, 2008

    Hi all from Canada.

    I’d like to take this moment to remind you that all Canadians are not as smugly and tediously stupid as Paul Hassell.

    I now return you to your regularly scheduled Christian whining.

  795. #802 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    Avekid:

    NO!!! I am the righteous 100th commenter!!! Impostor!!

    I demand a recount of the comments!!!!!!

  796. #803 Dianne
    March 21, 2008

    I’m stealing this idea from someone on Orac’s thread about this event and probably repeating, but I love the idea: PZ now needs to get himself a leather jacket with “More dangerous than Dawkins” stitched onto the back.

  797. #804 sternwallow
    March 21, 2008

    Don’t want to be #1000

    I have been in contact with my murky minions, some of whom happen to be YECs. They say that RD was let in deliberately so that they could deflect criticism over PZ’s exclusion. “Of course we don’t categorically refuse atheists or critics. We let RD in, didn’t we?”

    Also “We are familiar with Mr. PZ and, in our loving charity, we feared for his health had he been allowed in. He might have coughed up his lungs and gizzard at seeing the deep truth of our little film.”

  798. #805 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    I am the righteous 100th commenter, not 100th.

  799. #806 National Atheist's Day, April 1
    March 21, 2008

    I’m glad you were not allowed into the movie PZ, then you can be a good capitalist and pay your own money when it comes out. I’m sure they paid you well for your involvement anyway, right? Looks like you are in a win-win situation, you get your ideas on a movie and get paid and then get to spend time in an apple store amusing yourself…good stuff. It’s not that ID has any actually merits that threaten you is it? I hope you are not that insecure.

  800. #807 decrepitoldfool
    March 21, 2008

    Paul Hassell, Stalin was an atheist, Hitler was a Christian. What’s your point about them again?

  801. #808 Adam
    March 21, 2008

    sternwallow,

    That’s giving creationists way too much credit to think that they could hatch a plan with any sort of complexity (remember: God did it.)

    From reading that Stuart kid’s contradictory statements it sounds like Mathis was quite surprised to see Dawkins in the crowd asking questions after the film.

  802. #809 windarr
    March 21, 2008

    Hey myers – a “policeman” (?) not letting you in is about as funny as a public school teacher being allowed to teach the scientific problems with darwinism to his students. That teacher would be immediately fired by members of the pagan left and/or darwinian fundamentalists.
    I’d teach my public school biology students to memorize this great quote by atheist A.G. Fisher (2003), “Both the origin of life, and the origin of the major groups of animals remain unknown.”
    Laugh it up, myers (and brownian, om)!!!

  803. #810 soupspoons
    March 21, 2008

    #1021/paul hassell:

    I’m sad you’re Canadian. You are wrong. You are part of the problem. Everyone is fundementalist when you start flapping words around like that. And what are people like when they aren’t fundementalist. PLEASE describe this archetype to me! Should we all strive for apathy?

  804. #811 James Randi
    March 21, 2008

    I heard that Chris Hitchens got in, too – in drag – and the cops were so dismayed by what a bad woman he made, they just turned away. But I sometimes exaggerate, so pay no attention to me…

  805. #812 Jason Black
    March 21, 2008

    Paul,

    I understand where you’re coming from (and where you are going) with this, but I have to respectfully disagree. I’ve read all of Professor Dawkins’ books, and I simply don’t see that hatefulness. There’s a degree of pity; this I cannot deny, but let’s look at what he does not teach:

    Theists are not patriots and should not be US citizens.
    Theists have no right to choose for themselves what to believe.
    Theists should be absolutely barred from holding public office.
    Theists should not have the right to express their opinions.
    Theists cannot be moral.

    Yet each one of these things are stated time and time again about atheists–that they cannot be patriots, that they shouldn’t be citizens in the US, that they are immediately considered immoral, that they have no right to choose for themselves what to believe–and if so, they are to keep their opinions entirely to themselves.

    So I have to respectfully disagree with you. He may stand by his principles, but the man is no fundamentalist as he does not expect you to agree with him and has no desire to wield political power to force you to agree with him. But that doesn’t mean that he can’t express his opinion. And it doesn’t mean he is a fundamentalist if he does.

  806. #813 Brownian, OM
    March 21, 2008

    Hey myers – a “policeman” (?) not letting you in is about as funny as a public school teacher being allowed to teach the scientific problems with darwinism to his students. That teacher would be immediately fired by members of the pagan left and/or darwinian fundamentalists.
    I’d teach my public school biology students to memorize this great quote by atheist A.G. Fisher (2003), “Both the origin of life, and the origin of the major groups of animals remain unknown.”
    Laugh it up, myers (and brownian, om)!!!

    Hey Windarr: doesn’t your god tell you not to lie? I hope he’s watching.

  807. #814 David
    March 21, 2008

    LOL.

    Ben Stein and the Expelled bunch embarrass themselves again.

  808. #815 Pocket Nerd
    March 21, 2008

    Fukkin’ win, PZ. Fukkin’ win.

    I mean, yeah, fie on them for being typically dishonest creationist jackasses, but at least they were typically STUPID creationist jackasses as well. So fukkin’ win nonetheless.

  809. #816 t4toby
    March 21, 2008

    So you’ve hit the big time now, huh, P.Z.

    Your reputation precedes you.

    Keep up the good work.

  810. #817 Moses
    March 21, 2008

    #887

    There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science. Who are you to say they’re wrong? And same question to you as above: if people are free to discuss ID as much as they like, then why isn’t it?

    Posted by: dsmvwld | March 21, 2008 12:12 PM

    I know plenty of scientists to believe all kinds of damn foolish things. But wishing ID to be science doesn’t make it science. And anyone who calls himself a scientist and believes ID to be science needs to turn in his/her PhD.

  811. #818 todd
    March 21, 2008

    Paul regurgitates:

    “From my reading, his books emanate the same baleful hatefulness and superiority complex as the fundies do, but a lot more sarcasm.”

    Reading biased and misquoted criticisms of RD’s books written by people from WND is not the same thing as actually, you know, reading the books. Aside from God Delusion, which you think you read based on an unfavorable review, what other books by Dawkins have you read?

  812. #819 Roger Scott
    March 21, 2008

    Apparently PZ’s face is more famous among low brow ID film makers than Dawkins. Who’d have thunk it? Is it the whiskers? Is it the devils horns he cannot quite conceal?

  813. #820 christy kennedy
    March 21, 2008

    HYSSSS-terical! Thanks. Can’t wait to hear more.

  814. #821 Ian Maddox
    March 21, 2008

    Roger- it’s the tentacles.

  815. #822 Sam
    March 21, 2008

    I hope Mathis thoroughly enjoyed having PZ expelled because this incident has really made him the laughingstock of the world. I’ve been seeing this story all over the net.

  816. #823 Prof. Bleen
    March 21, 2008

    Thank you, PZ, for supplying us 200% of our US RDA of irony. The movie isn’t even officially released yet, and already the IDiots have undermined their entire premise via phenomenal hypocrisy.

  817. #824 Rich
    March 21, 2008

    I almost choked on my food when I read the punchline. My first thought was Dawkins better be holding a digi cam and bootlegging that shit.

  818. #825 Kyle W.
    March 21, 2008

    I can’t believe I missed these goings-on. Just further evidence of Big Imbecilism trying to keep dissenting views from being heard.

  819. #826 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    “Roger- it’s the tentacles.”

    —Perhaps he shouldn’t wear short shorts…

  820. #827 Dave Greig
    March 21, 2008

    Maiers, you have outdone yourself.

    I’m sorry even more I skipped out on the trip to the UK with you and Larry. :/

    Kudos, sir.

    –D.

  821. #828 Winter Toad
    March 21, 2008

    Well, news.google now turns up a couple of references in that part of the Internet that they consider “news”, as opposed to mere blogs:

    http://www.twincities.com and
    blog.christianitytoday.com
    .

  822. #829 Nullifidian
    March 21, 2008

    The posts have a strong scent of self-righteousness, so I’m guessing y’all don’t realize Richard Dawkins is, by the strict definition, another kind of fundamentalist?

    A strict definition? You mean he adheres to the articles of faith laid out in the early 20th century pamphlets, the Fundamentals? The Virgin Birth, the Divinity of Christ, and all that sort of thing?

    Dawkins says Christianity has caused more deaths that anything else in the 20th century,

    Cite please?

    neatly excluding his fellow-atheists, Stalin and Hitler.

    Who weren’t actually atheists. Hitler made numerous protestations of his public faith, even in private discussion (e.g. his statement made in front of Adjutant Gerhard Engel “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”, quoted in John Toland’s biography of Hitler).

    Stalin was, according to Krushchev, a “bad atheist”. In those memoirs, he wasn’t passing judgment on Stalin’s morality, but on his sincerity as an atheist. Don’t forget that Stalin trained as a seminarian, and he never really got that ideology out of his head, even when he tried to publicly shut down religious observance (which Krushchev, to his credit, loosened a bit during the “thaw”, even to the extent of making Soviet planes available to take Soviet Muslims to Saudi Arabia for the hajj).

    Furthermore, the disclosure and declassification of KGB files has led historians to confirm what many of them suspected, namely that outrageously ludicrous propaganda pieces like the Black Book of Communism contained estimates which were strikingly overblown.

    I have no love for the Communist regime, because they killed off my intellectual forebearers in the thousands (the anarchists, for example, who participated in the Makhnovist Revolt or the events in Kronstadt, 1921). Nevertheless, pointing to Communist regimes with propagandistic figures of those dead, and claiming “See! That’s atheism in action!” is a ludicrous abuse of historical investigation.

  823. #830 John C. Randolph
    March 21, 2008

    Where are the ID scientists?< ?I>

    Having tea with the unicorns, leprechauns, and other fictitious beings, I suppose.

    -jcr

  824. #831 John C. Randolph
    March 21, 2008

    Huh.. Looks like I had a malformed tag and chopped off the end of my message above. It was supposed to say:

    where are the ID scientists?

    Having a tea party with the unicorns, leprechauns, and other fictitious beings, I suppose.

    -jcr

  825. #832 Bronze Dog
    March 21, 2008

    Man, finally caught up with all the comments. Lots of great humor to be had at the Expellers’ expense, and IDiots in general.

    On the issue of legal action/resisting, well, it’s working out well in my daydreams. I wouldn’t have recommended it for real life, though. What PZ did still makes for a Crowning Moment of Awesome.

    Little link dump of mine.

  826. #833 robhoofd
    March 21, 2008

    I would have given the theater manager a great big hug and would’ve laughed all the way home, hugging everyone on my path.

    This is almost too wonderful to be true.

  827. #834 Jacey
    March 21, 2008

    Been reading about this story all day……..can’t make up shit like this.

    One thing bothering me is that they keep talking about PZ Myers being “expelled” and how he’s an atheist etc…….I think it needs to be hammered in that he’s in the movie!

    PZ, I think you should sue to have your name removed from the “Thank You” in the credits

  828. #835 AJ Milne
    March 21, 2008

    I didn’t realise that “No Intelligence Allowed” is actually part of the title! It never ocurred to me for a minute that this would be the title of the film – I assumed someone was passing judgement on its content. My apologies!

    This is, in fact, a general problem with a lot of fundie stuff, and specifically, a lot of creationist stuff, IDC included. Which is to say: it is very difficult to tell even what was meant to be an outrageous parody from the original. I have the same problem encountering a lot of creationist stuff. I’m always thinking: okay. Loki troll, right? He’s kidding, right?

    The truth is, sometimes, it’s harder than you’d think to know. The truth is: you really can’t parody Ken Ham. Come up with the most ridiculous shit, and he’ll outdo you, next week. In earnest.

    I believe there’s even a name for the phenomenon, now, but it escapes me. Involves the proper name of the guy who first pointed it out.

  829. #836 Mark
    March 21, 2008

    I think, this is what some might call “pant-wettingly funny”. Or maybe that is just me.

  830. #837 AJ Milne
    March 21, 2008

    Ah. Just remembered. Poe’s Law, natch.

  831. #838 Jón Frímann
    March 21, 2008

    Nice, I guess that the ID crowd is afraid of you. There is nothing like a good old expelled to tell how afraid they really are.

    It is always nice to know when things proof how bad they are.

    Have a nice day!

  832. #839 Jón Frímann
    March 21, 2008

    Nice, I guess that the ID crowd is afraid of you. There is nothing like a good old expelled to tell how afraid they really are.

    It is always nice to know when things proof how bad they are.

    Have a nice day!

  833. #840 ABK in STL
    March 21, 2008

    Absofrickinlutely priceless.

    “Stupid is as stupid does.” ~Forrest Gump

  834. #841 wnelson
    March 21, 2008

    Myers, you sound embarrassed — a bit like a child on a playground repeatedly yelling “that didn’t hurt! that didn’t hurt!”

    You’re no stranger to the press junket, you could have probably gotten access if you asked — and if you asked, and didn’t get access you needed to cut the antics for once and wait till next month with the rest of the oppressed. Now that the whole country will get an eyeful of the blacklisting, you’re worried enough to crash a private screening. That sounds desperate.

    Smart move by the producer — that is guerilla marketing par excellence. Your insecurity about this movie just gave it millions of dollars in free advertising.

    Love ya! (but private means _private_)

  835. #842 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    wnelson, you seem to have the same lack of reading skills as many of the other idiot commenters. PZ WAS INVITED. Which of those three words do you not understand?

  836. #843 Arno
    March 21, 2008

    PZ, why do you do this to me? It’s about bedtime over here (The Netherlands) but now I can’t get into bed because I will keep my wife awake all night with my constant outbursts of laughter.

    What an enormeous JOKE the IDiots made out of themselves! Let alone the contents of their “movie”… WHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (Sorry, there I go again…)

  837. #844 Citizen Z
    March 21, 2008

    So ID supporters claim they can recognize design in nature, but they can’t recognize Richard Dawkins, star of their own movie? Brilliant.

  838. #845 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    WNelson, a lot has been written about this, and you obviously haven’t absorbed all the facts yet.

    Private means private? Are you sure? In this case, “private” meant: Open to anyone who pre-registered online for admission to the showing of the film in a theatre rented for the evening by the producers of the film.

    In this case, “crash” meant: Showing up at the theatre to check in after having pre-registered online for admission to the showing of the film, as instructed by the organizers of the event.

    There’s a serious conflict here. By these definitions, virtually everyone who attended the showing by pre-registering for admission online “crashed” the preview.

    It’s nothing but a hot, steaming pile of stinking dishonesty and double-talk. Explain why his wife, daughter, and daughter’s BF were admitted? They were pre-registered by PZ. Explain why Kristine Harley and Rev. Barky were admitted. They pre-registered by the same method.

    Face it: PZ was singled out. The only mistake he made was showing up, expecting fair treatment.

  839. #846 Kevin Burton
    March 21, 2008

    The problem is that you don’t realize that Expelled is a COMEDY…. if you take this into consideration it’s MUCH easier to watch :)

    Kevin

  840. #847 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    PZ was singled out

    You just made me giggle again!

  841. #848 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Uh… I did?

    0.0

    How?

  842. #849 BadMA
    March 21, 2008

    Now that the whole country will get an eyeful of the blacklisting, you’re worried enough to crash a private screening. That sounds desperate.

    Private?!? Do they always have to lie? Perhaps IDists are just used to overlooking real facts. This is an obvious falsehood. Yeah, that’s *gotta* be it. Right?

  843. #850 Iroc
    March 21, 2008

    The producers did not discriminate against PZ based on religion but on the fact that he is an outspoken critic who shines the spotlight of fact-based reason on their alternative reality-based propaganda movie, so it isn’t religious discrimination< \quote>

    Denying entry because of your “lack” of religion, IS discrimination based on religion.

  844. #851 Tessa
    March 21, 2008

    Obviously the moviemakers made a huge public relations mistake kicking out PZ. You would think they would have known he’d blog about it, and it would make them look extremely frightened that they couldn’t take the criticism.

    I guess there is a good reason they call it “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed”!!!

    This whole incident really cracks me up!

  845. #852 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    Kseniya, I mean The image of PZ being singled out, not you!

  846. #853 tigtog
    March 21, 2008

    My impression of Dawkins and PZ waiting in line.

  847. #854 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    RamDude:

    Oh. I see. :-)

    I mean, I hadn’t phrased it in a funny way, or anything.

    Yeah, the image is… bizarre.

    And one last time, to anyone who still believes PZ was escorted out because he “didn’t have a ticket,” the truth seems to be this:

  848. - Nobody had a ticket.
  849. - Those who wished to attend, pre-registered online.
  850. - PZ’s name was on a “do-not-admit” list.
  851. - (Draw your own conclusions as to why.)
  852. - They knew he was coming,
  853. - …because he’d pre-registered like everybody else.
  854. - Security was instructed to keep an eye out for him.
  855. - Everyone else who’d pre-registered, including those who had accompanied PZ to the theatre, were admitted to the showing, because
  856. - …they weren’t named “PZ Myers”.

    Any questions?

  • #855 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    Obviously the moviemakers made a huge public relations mistake kicking out PZ. You would think they would have known he’d blog about it, and it would make them look extremely frightened that they couldn’t take the criticism.

    Unfortunately, Looking frightened of the atheists will play very well with their support group–fundamentalist Christians. And most of them will never read PZ’s blog to find out the facts.

  • #856 MAJeff, OM
    March 21, 2008

    So ID supporters claim they can recognize design in nature, but they can’t recognize Richard Dawkins, star of their own movie? Brilliant.

    Bravo!

  • #857 Joe
    March 21, 2008

    I’m a Christian, tho not a 6 day creationist. Personally I find it hilarious and a nice kick in the arse for creationists

  • #858 MelM
    March 21, 2008

    This has made my day!!! And, I received a thank you note from Ayaan Hirsi Ali too. In my book, this is a bad day for the Sky Wizard.

  • #859 Norseman
    March 21, 2008

    I am a devout Christian who considers the creationist scientists to be a schmaltzy group of miscreants. This is why PZ Meyers’ account held such mirth for me. Thank you, PZ, for making my day.

  • #860 Anysia
    March 21, 2008

    Laughing as hard? Oh HELL yes! HAHAHAHA

  • #861 Scott
    March 21, 2008

    That is absolutely fantastic!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

  • #862 John Morales
    March 21, 2008

    Flashback:

    Posted on: August 22, 2007 4:55 PM, by PZ Myers:

    Oh, well. I have two warnings for the creationists.
    One, I will go see this movie, and I will cheer loudly at my 30 seconds or whatever on the screen, and I will certainly disembowel its arguments here and in any print venue that wants me. That’s going to be fun.
    Two, next time I’m asked to be recorded for a creationist propaganda film, I will demand more money, and a flight and a limousine to the premiere. They can pay for my tuxedo rental, too. And my hotel room will have a jacuzzi and a bowl of M&Ms — green ones only.

  • #863 flea
    March 21, 2008

    If I didn’t know better, I’d say you made this whole thing up. It’s just too good to be true.

    But please do let us know how Mr. Dawkins enjoyed the film.

  • #864 Norseman
    March 21, 2008

    I thing GREEN M&Ms might be a step too far. Other than that, you’re on the mark, PZ.

  • #865 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    1880 diggs. That’s not bad.

  • #866 Sastra
    March 21, 2008

    tigtog #1075:

    Heh, that’s pretty good. I’d already guessed that the tentacles tipped off the security staff, but I can see now why they failed to spot Dawkins: they thought he was one of Stein’s relatives.

  • #867 Norseman
    March 21, 2008

    Damn! I see in post #1085 I was thinking with my thing again (I hope that doesn’t make me a closet creationist).

  • #868 Farb
    March 21, 2008

    I predict they’ll offer PZ a private screening as an olive branch, in order to manage the damage already done.

    After all, we simply can’t have our True White Knights of ID caught red-handed in the very act of “expelling.”

    Of course, it’ll be predicated upon him pledging not to write any negative review of their celluloid drivel.

    He’ll pointedly refuse, of course, and then they’ll unleash their Hounds of Truth to trumpet their good faith attempt.

  • #869 A Lurker
    March 21, 2008

    It really would not matter if the security goons did recognize Richard Dawkins and knew exactly who is. The “Expelled” people clearly gave instructions that P.Z. should be expelled. It is very likely that they did not know Dawkins was coming and failed to give instructions to expel him and thus security lacked the authority to kick out Dawkins without provocation.

    Heck, the theater people and its security probably would not even cared if Dawkins was there anyways. They were were either just following the instructions of the “Expelled” producers. By kicking out only the person requested their butts are covered.

  • #870 Acebass
    March 21, 2008

    Interesting Si Kahn addressed this phenomenon in his book “The Fox in the Henhouse” When it’s private they can do what they want and hire off duty police officers to enforce [b]their[/b] laws

  • #871 Mongrel
    March 21, 2008

    Just caught this and don’t have the sobriety to read through all the comments, but would like to add the venacular

    PWNED!!!

  • #872 Nio DiPietro
    March 21, 2008

    PZ, man, seriously. I think it’s time to start a Rap Beef here. PZ Versus Ben Stein! Maybe you could even make press! Someone needs to come up with a gangsta jam railin’ against them uppity IDiots!

    In all seriousness though: Sometimes, you have to learn to laugh at life, even if it’s a curious cocktail of hypocritical hysteria, blatant stupidity, overbearing ignorance, and stage four liver cancer.

  • #873 J
    March 21, 2008

    #1094

    Someone needs to come up with a gangsta jam railin’ against them uppity IDiots!

    Someone kinda did. Kick it old school, MC Hawking! (Not safe for work, natch)

  • #874 Jeanne Shade
    March 21, 2008

    Oookay….

    So they criticize you for speaking out against the idiocy of their movie on grounds that you haven’t yet seen it yet. Then, when you try to see it, they show how much faith they have in the strength of their arguments by…not letting you see it.

    Yeah. No intelligence allowed, indeed.

    The Dawkins bit is just icing on the cake.

  • #875 tsig
    March 21, 2008

    More have commented here that will pay to see the movie.

  • #876 James F
    March 21, 2008

    #486 (long thread!) wtfwtf wrote:

    http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/intelligent-design-research-published-in-nature/
    Have you seen this bullshit, btw?

    I wrote to the corresponding authors. One of them, in his reply, assured me that the paper in no way provides support for ID, and noted that his work has frequently been cited to support evolution. Nice try, DI! Same old BS from BD.

  • #877 neil griffiths
    March 21, 2008

    With any luck the same will happen when you get to heaven!

    Then you can have some fun.

  • #878 Jack H.
    March 21, 2008

    That’s just about the funniest story I’ve ever heard.

  • #879 benjdm
    March 21, 2008

    NY Times coverage

    Two evolutionary biologists — P. Z. Myers of the University of Minnesota, Morris, and Richard Dawkins of Oxford — tried to go to the movies at the Mall of America in Minneapolis Thursday evening. Dr. Dawkins got in. Dr. Myers did not.

    On those facts, everybody agrees. After that, things break down…

  • #880 Zach Miller
    March 21, 2008

    That is altogether too funny! Oh, the irony! The sweet, scrumptious irony!

  • #881 martin
    March 21, 2008

    I know it’s late, but I’ve been following this story for most of the day, from the moment I nearly shat myself on reading P.Z.’s original post to now…though one thing that’s struck me, on all the various blogs I’ve checked is the vicious dishonesty and schoolyard taunts that have emerged from the ID crowd and their apologists. Their comments across the web have been nothing but bile and whinging.Seems to be all they can conjure up. Another thought was to echo a comment made elsewhere, that for all their faith, these sad sacks have a very poor grasp of the essence of xtianity… like peace and love and turning the other cheek ” Jesus meek and mild” and all that shit…maybe it’s not as important to them as they’d like us to think. In fact what has always struck about bastards who want to shove their screwed-up morals in our faces and into our lives is the idea of control. Only that. The religion thing is a distraction, window-dressing for the real deal. They want to own us. If it became unfeasible to have control through religion, they’d shift the goalposts, regroup, and crawl out from under another rock. Like the Vatican,these guys don’t give two farts what the little soldiers on the ground believe, as long as they own our lives and thoughts. It’s like a rapist claiming that his vile act was done from love when everybody knows that rape is about power. Scumbags like Stein et al are simply rapists of the mind. I hope these bastards are getting shriller BECAUSE they’re getting their balls cut off.
    BTW. Thank you, once more, P.Z. and family, for all your work, not just for today alone. (Though today was kinda special)
    Keep fighting the good fight, thanks again.

  • #882 Rick Broussard
    March 21, 2008

    I didn’t have time to read all the hundreds of posts, but my impression is that a bunch of fundamentalist materialists need to find something to amuse themselves besides the attempt of one movie producer to keep a heckler out of the theater on a premiere night. Richard Dawkins is so self-infatuated that I’m sure your sniggering confirms his suspicion that not only is there no God of the universe, he is the apex of humanity. Bow down ye skeptics to your fleshy Messiah.

  • #883 Tyler DiPietro
    March 21, 2008

    “I didn’t have time to read all the hundreds of posts, but my impression is that a bunch of fundamentalist materialists need to find something to amuse themselves besides the attempt of one movie producer to keep a heckler out of the theater on a premiere night.”

    And just like everything else, they sucked at it.

  • #884 Kevin
    March 21, 2008

    “Bow down ye skeptics to your fleshy Messiah.”

    umm.. are you talking about Ed Brayton?

  • #885 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    I didn’t have time to read all the hundreds of posts, but

    …but you still feel qualified to comment on them, eh? :-D

    There is no theory of ID. No amount of lying from creationists will change that.

  • #886 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    I can’t believe this hasn’t been added yet, so I will have to, I guess:

    BREATHTAKING INANITY!

  • #887 Brownian, OM
    March 21, 2008

    I didn’t have time to read all the…

    $50 says this sentence of Rick Broussard’s could just as accurately be ended with the word ‘Bible.’

    Thanks for coming out Rick. We really do appreciate reading comments from individuals such as yourself who go the extra step to ensure that their opinions are well-informed. People like you are really instrumental in demonstrating the moral, ethical, and intellectual backbone of those who claim to live by Christ’s teachings. I hope your community appreciates you as the very model of a Christian as much as we do.

    Thanks again, and on this very special weekend celebrating the resurrection of a god, may the original resurrected gods–Tammuz, Osiris, and Dionysus–bless you.

  • #888 Rick Broussard
    March 21, 2008

    Which is a greater offense to reason: to hold faith in a religious doctrine or to accept that something you don’t really understand must be so because someone you consider to be an intellectual superior says it is?

  • #889 Rick Broussard
    March 21, 2008

    Which is a greater offense to reason: to hold faith in a religious doctrine or to accept that something you don’t really understand must be so because someone you consider to be an intellectual superior says it is?

  • #890 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    Holding faith in a fundamentalist religious doctrine is nothing but accepting that something you don’t understand, and that flies in the face of reality, must be so because Pastor Billy Bob says it is.

  • #891 Brownian, OM
    March 21, 2008

    Which is a greater offense to reason

    Someone as fucking dumb as you using the word when you so clearly have no idea what it means.

  • #892 Troff
    March 21, 2008

    Rick,

    if your pipes are blocked somewhere before the main waste outlet, or if your computer gets a virus; and you don’t know how to unblock the pipes or how they got blocked in the first place, or you don’t know why you remove the virused files and they keep re-appearing… are you prepared to accept the plumber’s or the tech guy’s reasoning as for how they got blocked or virused?

    … Especially when they DO clear the blockage and remove the virus?

  • #893 Brownian, OM
    March 21, 2008

    Since Rick referred to skeptics and mentioned Dawkins, we can only assume he thinks we’re atheists because Dawkins told us to be. He may be talking about evolution, but it’s so hard to tell with these simps, especially when they try to emulate thinking, sentient beings.

  • #894 Robster, FCD
    March 21, 2008

    Actually, Kevin, we aren’t the ones with a fleshy messiah (if dead and decomposed), or for that matter any other kind of messiah. Atheists recognize brilliant thinkers and writers, but no central leading authority, text or organization.

    In fact, the only thing that really makes atheists different from you is that we recognize and worship one fewer god (or group of gods) than you do.

    But it is interesting that you invoke the supernatural to defend ID. Isn’t it supposed to be a secular concept, with no clue as to who the designer is? Didn’t you get the memo?

  • #895 Jackstraw
    March 21, 2008

    That’s the best ending to a story since Robert Redford opened his eyes just after Doyle Lonigan gimped out of the betting parlor.

  • #896 Brownian, OM
    March 21, 2008

    Robster, I think you mean to address your comment to Rick Broussard, comment #1104.

  • #897 Rick Broussard
    March 21, 2008

    Illuminating to see how strangers are treated by Dawkinsians, though It doesn’t bode well for humanity under the iron fist of materialism.

  • #898 Robster, FCD
    March 21, 2008

    Thanks, Brownian, I realized it after I hit submit.

  • #899 Robert S.
    March 21, 2008

    Hilarious. I believe congratulations are in order. A beer on me PZ should we ever meet.

  • #900 Martin
    March 21, 2008

    That was cute, Rick! Although I like my pewter fist better. Just a bit more stylish, and less prone to rust.

  • #901 QED
    March 21, 2008

    Illuminating to see how strangers are treated by Dawkinsians, though It doesn’t bode well for humanity under the iron fist of materialism.

    No…better for humanity to be dragged back to the Middle Ages under the bloody cross of religious and political fundamentalism.

  • #902 Troff
    March 21, 2008

    Rick Broussard,

    that was rude and uncomely of you.

    I answered your question with an appropriate and informative analogy and no insult.

    I’ve never met Richard Dawkins and I certainly don’t have a religious faith in the man.

    This bodes most poorly for every living creature if the alternative to the Iron Fist of Materialism is the Iron Fist of your Rudeness and Falsehoods.

  • #903 Leigh
    March 21, 2008

    @rick broussard (#1111)
    “Which is a greater offense to reason: to hold faith in a religious doctrine or to accept that something you don’t really understand must be so because someone you consider to be an intellectual superior says it is?”

    I believe your contention that I “accept something I don’t really understand” is specious. Just because YOU can’t understand it doesn’t mean the rest of us are thus handicapped.

    And, since I am a devout Christian, let me also point out that Christ in no wise advised us to be uneducated sheeple. That comment about being like little children? He didn’t mean we are supposed to be ignorant and naive.

    Nor did He mean we’re supposed to tell lies and just-so stories because

    a) we don’t understand and/or can’t accept reality, or
    b) in a battle of wits, we’re unarmed.

    /flamethrower
    /snarkiness

  • #904 Troff
    March 21, 2008

    Rick Broussard,

    that was rude and uncomely of you.

    I answered your question with an appropriate and informative analogy and no insult.

    I’ve never met Richard Dawkins and I certainly don’t have a religious faith in the man. It just so happens that the appearances of his I’ve seen on television and the Internet portray him as asking intelligent questions and eliciting fascinating answers. He brings understanding to people and does so in an illuminating and polite manner.

    Unlike, say, you.

    This bodes most poorly for every living creature if the alternative to the Iron Fist of Materialism is the Iron Fist of your Rudeness and Falsehoods. Thank you: I know which I’d choose now.

  • #905 Troff
    March 21, 2008

    (Apologies if this is a repost, the Series Of Tubes appear to be a tad clogged whilst I was editing…)

    Rick Broussard,

    that was rude and uncomely of you.

    I answered your question with an appropriate and informative analogy and no insult.

    I’ve never met Richard Dawkins and I certainly don’t have a religious faith in the man. It just so happens that the appearances of his I’ve seen on television and the Internet portray him as asking intelligent questions and eliciting fascinating answers. He brings understanding to people and does so in an illuminating and polite manner.

    Unlike, say, you.

    This bodes most poorly for every living creature if the alternative to the Iron Fist of Materialism is the Iron Fist of your Rudeness and Falsehoods. Thank you: I know which I’d choose now.

  • #906 jim
    March 21, 2008

    Truth is funnier than fiction, ladies & germs!
    Now THAT’s edutainment at its finest.

    Yet again, the Fundamentalistas just showed everyone their true colours.
    Now the rest of us get to do what they hate more than anything: laugh at their astonishing level of egotism & willful stupidity.
    Apparently, chumping yourself is a fetish with these folks.

    The fact that you’re actually IN the film they won’t let you watch is just the cherry on the asshat-sundae.

    Man, plus letting Dawkins in without so much as a blink … PLUS it happening on Easter, to boot … hardcore self-pwnage.

  • #907 Robster, FCD
    March 21, 2008

    Rick, if the dark ages and the inquisition are the choice we are given, I’ll take the snide remarks. If often violent hate, justified by your god/s, for those of different belief, or sexual persuasion, or skin color is what you offer, I’ll skip it. If, when humans do evil, they are at fault, not controlled by demons, I’ll take reality. Or when a tornado destroys the house next door, killing the whole family, you would have me thank god/s for sparing me and slaughtering them, I’ll kindly say, “Shit happens.”

    Do you value the commandment not to bear false witness (lie)?

    If so, then why do you support liars like those pushing ID as a scientific theory, or claim that there is no evidence for evolution.

    It isn’t evolution that is on shakier ground every year, it is theism. Religion relies on a lack of evidence, also called faith (remember doubting Thomas?), and every bit of evidence that is gathered makes the unknown, and hence, god/s, smaller and smaller.

    BTW, do you even know what materialism is?

  • #908 Rick Broussard
    March 21, 2008

    Didn’t mean to appear rude (Troff). I was responding to a couple of jeers and suggestions that I was an idiot by people who don’t know crap about me. I’ve never implied any such thing about any of you and my feelings were hurt. I do believe (and think) that baseline materialism makes just as many (more actually) brash assumptions about essential reality than does faith. I think faith has to be tempered with love and so does it’s lack, but minus faith, there’s really no reason to offer love beyond conditioned reflex or manipulation. Don’t take this personally y’all. I’m just speaking my narrow, sad, pitiful mind.

  • #909 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    I’m just speaking my narrow, sad, pitiful mind.

    Like, no shit. The output speaks for itself.

  • #910 Brownian, OM
    March 22, 2008

    I’ve never implied any such thing about any of you and my feelings were hurt.

    Yes, yes you did. You implied we’re all fundamentalist followers without even bothering to read what we’ve written. We’re very tired of hearing that from assumption-makers.

    I do believe (and think) that baseline materialism makes just as many (more actually) brash assumptions about essential reality than does faith. I think faith has to be tempered with love and so does it’s lack, but minus faith, there’s really no reason to offer love beyond conditioned reflex or manipulation.

    Even though I disagree with most of this, if you had started off this way, I would not have responded the way I did.

    For my part, I apologise for my comments that hurt your feelings. I appreciate you finally coming out and being honest about what you think, not what you think we think.

  • #911 Leigh
    March 22, 2008

    Rick (#1133), this is a damn tough crowd for us theists. Some atheists are asshats. Then again, some Christians are asshats. It all works out.

    What I can’t tolerate is the friggin’ LIES. I can’t imagine how anyone thinks that the cause of Christ is well-served by a bunch of unethical nudnicks like the producers of this movie.

    One thing you can take to the bank with PZ and Dawkins, they tell the truth insofar as they can identify it, damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead.

  • #912 Ichthyic
    March 22, 2008

    Since Rick referred to skeptics and mentioned Dawkins, we can only assume he thinks we’re atheists because Dawkins told us to be.

    Rick said just a couple of posts later:

    Illuminating to see how strangers are treated by Dawkinsians,

    so I’d say you were pretty dead on.

    those that put their “faith” in authoritarianism often project the exact same onto everyone else.

    Rick:

    projection. Look it up.

    you’re full of it.

  • #913 tpaine950062
    March 22, 2008

    Rick Broussard said:
    > …I do believe (and think) that baseline materialism
    > makes just as many (more actually) brash assumptions
    > about essential reality than does faith…

    I’m curious: in what way does skepticism when lacking proof involve unexamined assumptions? The assumption that pink, talking unicorns in your undershorts are controlling your posts has the merit of exonerating you on the charge of making an ass of yourself, but there’s no evidence for it.

  • #914 Robster, FCD
    March 22, 2008

    Bah. I don’t apologize.

    I think faith has to be tempered with love and so does it’s lack, but minus faith, there’s really no reason to offer love beyond conditioned reflex or manipulation.

    Conditioned reflex? You mean like if I’m not good, I’ll be punished by my god/s? That isn’t morality, its fear. Being moral isn’t about making god/s happy (or less wrathful), but in helping others and doing the right thing.

    The truth of your actions is in the last word of the quoted sentence.

    Manipulation.

    By sugar coating your words, you hope to undo the damage already done and manipulate the conversation to a point where you can save face and run away. You have no interest in showing love, only that you don’t understand basic definitions of faith, evidence, religion, reason, materialism, etc.

    Congrats. Have a happy Festival of Ester, the goddess of rebirth, fertility and spring.

  • #915 Kseniya
    March 22, 2008

    My Dear Mr. Broussard:

    You wrote:

    I didn’t have time to read all the hundreds of posts, but my impression is…

    …over-biased and under-informed.

    You subsequently asked:

    Which is a greater offense to reason? 1) Blind faith in ancient mythology, or 2) that other dreadful thing you mentioned?

    The question, though perhaps of some interest to the nine-year-old for whom I occasionally babysit, is of little value in this discussion because it fails to address a couple of other possibilities:

    3) Accepting something that you do understand because you’ve gone to the trouble of learning enough about it to make an informed decision. (I realize you know nothing about how this works, but stay with me please.)

    4) Speaking out with presumed authority against something you don’t really understand and refuse to try to understand because it conflicts with your blind faith in ancient mythology. (Does this one have your name on it, Bucky?)

    The greatest affront to Reason, of the four, is… number four.

    I may have underestimated you, but I think this means you win some kind of prize. Congratulations.

  • #916 Rick Broussard
    March 22, 2008

    Brownian, First of all you have my respect since your eponymous motion in a cup of tea allows the Heart of Gold to pass through every point in the universe at once, and secondly, without getting defensive, allow me to point out that I was speaking to the general tone of this site in which a bunch of yahooies were crowing about the “victory” of smuggling Richard Dawkins into a movie theatre (great moral triumph that this may or may not be). I never called any of them (or you) “fucking dumb.” To say I did not read every single post is not to say I did not scroll down looking for variations in the flow. I’ll be happy to admit that I have not seen the movie and I haven’t said a word in its defense. But I’ll bet dollars to donuts that a lot of the posters here have never read Dawkins, much less a reasoned critique of his point of view from a position of a rational person of faith. Since some have declared that faith is by its nature anathema to reason I assume that they would not even consider this a worthy exercise, but that is the nature of fundamentalists of any persuasion.

  • #917 Godfrey
    March 22, 2008

    Broussard said:
    “minus faith, there’s really no reason to offer love beyond conditioned reflex or manipulation.”

    Except that we were born to love? That we live for love, die for love, kill for love, waste our lives searching for love when love is all around us… and you have the gall to come in here and pretend no one knows love but Christians?

    Fuck you, Rick. Fuck you.

  • #918 Robster, FCD
    March 22, 2008

    Rick, define faith.

    Define reason.

    And as I am well into Devil’s Chaplain (and have several other Dawkins books on my reading list) and find it extraordinarily well written, I prefer crullers. Thanks.

    Perhaps you could point us to a rational criticism of Dawkins that doesn’t rely on “he’s arrogant” or “he’s a big meanie.”

    Thanks.

  • #919 RamblinDude
    March 22, 2008

    Religion relies on a lack of evidence, also called faith (remember doubting Thomas?),

    Oh yes! Very well. You learned early on that a Doubting Thomas was almost as bad as being a Judas! Except the response leaned more toward scorn rather than contempt. You could have faults, you could admit you weren’t perfect (after all, is anybody?), you could admit to not having enough faith in Jesus to achieve real inner peace, or not praying enough. You could even debate the inerrancy of the Bible, but you did NOT admit to doubting in the existence of Jesus. Not if you wanted to continue being part of the group for long. Doubting Thomas’ were the reason group prayers didn’t work sometimes, and why miracles didn’t happen more often. You didn’t want to be responsible for somebody not recovering from a serious illness, did you? Yep, being a Doubting Thomas; one of the more serious failings of a Christian.

    After you get away from it, you realize that God isn’t God; Faith is God.

  • #920 Rick Broussard
    March 22, 2008

    Darwin’s Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution By Michael J. Behe
    The Science of God: The Convergence of Scientific and Biblical Wisdom
    The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief By Francis S. Collins

  • #921 Kseniya
    March 22, 2008

    Geez, it’s easy to fall behind on a thread like this.

    Rick:

    Don’t take this personally y’all

    You have GOT to be kidding.

    Are you related to Stuart Blessman?

    Have you ever entered a bicycle race and ridden the entire course backwards?

    Look. Look at your first – FIRST – comment:

    I didn’t have time to read all the hundreds of posts [admirable admission of ignorance], but my impression is that a bunch of fundamentalist materialists [no, nobody here will take that personally] need to find something to amuse themselves besides the attempt of one movie producer to keep a heckler [a stupid lie] out of the theater on a premiere night [a false assumption stemming from flagrant ignorance]. Richard Dawkins is so self-infatuated [how gracious of you to speak of the genteel Professor in such a respectful manner] that I’m sure your sniggering [oh right - you haven't read the comments] confirms his suspicion that not only is there no God of the universe, he is the apex of humanity. [not worth dignifying with a comment] Bow down ye skeptics to your fleshy Messiah. [the standard "atheism is a religion" canard. Yawn.]

    In that context, how could ANYONE fail to interpret your second comment (the “Which is a greater offense to reason?” question, which I’d like to point out was posted before anyone started calling you nasty names) as an implicit indictment of the intellectual capacity and/or honesty of virtually everyone reading and commenting on this thread who accepts the ToE and rejects ID? How?

    And now you cry foul, you cry unwelcoming Dawkinsians and nasty Hobbitses, you cry “Oh I didn’t mean YOU”…?

    Ok. I’ll bite. Everyone gets a second chance. Carry on. :-)

  • #922 Ichthyic
    March 22, 2008

    were crowing about the “victory” of smuggling Richard Dawkins in

    funny, I thought the thread was titled:

    EXPELLED

    I rather think you missed the point.

    badly.

    Not a surprise, though.

  • #923 Ichthyic
    March 22, 2008

    nasty Hobbitses

    heh, i always get a kick out of the picture this brings to mind whenever you use it:

    Dembski as Gollum.

    with glasses and sweater.

  • #924 Ichthyic
    March 22, 2008

    But I’ll bet dollars to donuts that a lot of the posters here have never read Dawkins, much less a reasoned critique of his point of view from a position of a rational person of faith.

    you’re just full of projection, aren’t ya buddy?

  • #925 Janine, ID
    March 22, 2008

    Yeah! Yet an other person shows up to let us know what INTOLERANT people we are without knowing the facts of the case. Rick, please read up on this. It was a prescreening, not a premiere. One could get in by accepting an invite through the Expelled website. There was no smuggling.

    What is funny about this story is that they got the local atheist, PZ, and allowed in the most famous atheist, Dawkins.

    Basicly, the people here will crow anytime that the liars involved with this film, or any other creationist activity, are shown to be the dishonest gits they are.

    Rick, what you should do is check out the many threads here to see that everyone here does not speak with one voice. No one here looks at Dawkins as the one we must bow to. But many here admire that he got a stage to speak from and he speaks well. But he is not our leader. And check out how many regulars here disagree with PZ.

    But there is one major difference with the arguments here and the arguments against the creationists. Most of the people here do seem to be honest about what they mean and that can be respected. It may get heated but that is about it. With creationists, it is different, they are liars and we know it. One can catch them in a deception yet they keep doing it over again.

    And you barge in, calling us braying sycophants of Myers and Dawkins. You make a note of not bothering to read what is here. And you present a scenario that has been proven wrong. You came in acting like the prototypical troll. We have seen dozens of post like what you dropped off. It was attacking and offensive. The tongue lashing you received was deserved.

    Next you come to hector, at least get your facts straight. If you cannot bother to do so, you will be called on it.

  • #926 Kseniya
    March 22, 2008

    Dembski as Gollum.

    Wow. That really puts the “csi” in “my precious.” I detect design!

  • #927 QED
    March 22, 2008

    And here’s the spin, from Mathis, in the NYT article:

    Mark Mathis, a producer of the film who attended the screening, said that “of course” he had recognized Dr. Dawkins, but allowed him to attend because “he has handled himself fairly honorably, he is a guest in our country and I had to presume he had flown a long way to see the film.”

  • #928 Rick Broussard
    March 22, 2008

    Well, Kseniya, I certainly didn’t mean YOU, not anyone specifically in my casual rib-poking. Not even the ones who have told repeatedly said “Fuck You” to me. The difference in speaking in generalities for rhetorical effect and attacking an individual is pretty clear to me, but for some reason it is not to people who seem so self-righteous (a generality, in case someone is hoping to be personally offended) about their claims to reason. As much as I’d like to stick around and be the one Daffy Duck in a world of rifle-toting Elmer Fudds (generally speaking), it’s a bit late. I’ll check in tomorrow to see who else wants me to go fuck myself. As for appeals to authority, I assume that the books that I mentioned are looked on by some as inferior to those of Mr. Dawkins, but maybe you should encourage me since at least I’m not just reading Focus on the Family.

  • #929 Ichthyic
    March 22, 2008

    casual rib-poking

    oh, that’s what you call it.

    sorry, charlie, you poisoned your own well, and instead of trying to fix it, only proceeded to deepen the well.

    suggest you go away for a while, and come back after everyone has forgotten about you.

  • #930 blf
    March 22, 2008

    I think a new level of irony has just been reached: Behe has been seriously recommended (@1146).

    Behe?

    Behe!

    Oh his fecking sky monster.

    Even ten seconds spent with the Wikipedia summary would clew most people in Behe is less credible than One Million Years BC or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

  • #931 Ichthyic
    March 22, 2008

    Even ten seconds spent with the Wikipedia summary would clew most people in Behe is less credible than One Million Years BC or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

    Well, there is the astrology crowd to think of!

    Behe is their hero for claiming astrology is just as good a science as ID.

  • #932 Robster, FCD
    March 22, 2008