Pharyngula

EXPELLED!

There is a rich, deep kind of irony that must be shared. I’m blogging this from the Apple store in the Mall of America, because I’m too amused to want to wait until I get back to my hotel room.

I went to attend a screening of the creationist propaganda movie, Expelled, a few minutes ago. Well, I tried … but I was Expelled! It was kind of weird — I was standing in line, hadn’t even gotten to the point where I had to sign in and show ID, and a policeman pulled me out of line and told me I could not go in. I asked why, of course, and he said that a producer of the film had specifically instructed him that I was not to be allowed to attend. The officer also told me that if I tried to go in, I would be arrested. I assured him that I wasn’t going to cause any trouble.

I went back to my family and talked with them for a while, and then the officer came back with a theater manager, and I was told that not only wasn’t I allowed in, but I had to leave the premises immediately. Like right that instant.

I complied.

I’m still laughing though. You don’t know how hilarious this is. Not only is it the extreme hypocrisy of being expelled from their Expelled movie, but there’s another layer of amusement. Deep, belly laugh funny. Yeah, I’d be rolling around on the floor right now, if I weren’t so dang dignified.

You see … well, have you ever heard of a sabot? It’s a kind of sleeve or lightweight carrier used to surround a piece of munition fired from a gun. It isn’t the actually load intended to strike the target, but may even be discarded as it leaves the barrel.

I’m a kind of sabot right now.

They singled me out and evicted me, but they didn’t notice my guest. They let him go in escorted by my wife and daughter. I guess they didn’t recognize him. My guest was …

Richard Dawkins.

He’s in the theater right now, watching their movie.

Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?

Comments

  1. #1 benjdm
    March 20, 2008

    That’s awesome.

  2. #2 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    a policeman pulled me out of line and told me I could not go in. I asked why, of course, and he said that a producer of the film had specifically instructed him that I was not to be allowed to attend. The officer also told me that if I tried to go in, I would be arrested. I assured him that I wasn’t going to cause any trouble.

    WTF?

    a POLICEMAN?

    as in actual law enforcement, paid for by the city?

    If so, that’s the real story here, no offense to your being snubbed, PZ.

  3. #3 minusRusty
    March 20, 2008

    ROFL ROFL ROFL!!!!

    Absolutely Classic! I suppose you didn’t happen to capture it all on a video phone or somethin’?!? That would make wonderful YouTube!

    -Rusty

  4. #4 pedro bungoton
    March 20, 2008

    I LOVE IT! Absolutely brilliant! I’m almost rolling on the floor right now. What an amazing coup for the side of reason. It would be even better if it was captured on video.
    I hope you call a press conference after Richard comes out of the theater.

  5. #5 Beth B.
    March 20, 2008

    Yep, must concur with benjdm: that was a belly laugh right there. Also: spending the evening with Dawkins? That makes the whole thing at least half again as awesome.

  6. #6 PZ Myers
    March 20, 2008

    They told us ahead of time that no recording devices would be allowed, so no, nothing was captured.

    I don’t know if the officer was a local security guard or an official, real policeman — I didn’t look at his badge carefully. But they did have several of these big burly guys in uniform standing by the entrance.

  7. #7 David Lee
    March 20, 2008

    That’s too funny. You’ll have to wait until it’s shoveled onto the DVD market.

    Oh, and you tell Prof. Dawkins that he can be seen in 3D now at his Madison press conference at 3D Science News. That ought to make his day.

    I wonder how many Christian not-wanted posters you’re on?

  8. #8 F.Jardim
    March 20, 2008

    I would have waited a bit longer before posting this, just to be safe. I would not be surprised if some fundy sneak reads this, makes a few calls and send the guard back inside for Dawkins.

    But yes, it is hilarious. :)

  9. #9 Winter Toad
    March 20, 2008

    Yes, I laughed out loud. I believe the term for this is “awesome”.

    Now, I realize that a theatre is private property, and you can be forbidden entrance for any reason or no reason at all. It’s not surprising you were thrown out. However, I’m a bit curious. This policeman who threw you out. I presume he was there in uniform, and so was officially there. Did you get the impression that it bothered him to be kicking you out? The theatre owner, the producers, I can see them ordering your expulsion with glee, but I’d expect that to stick in the craw of a disinterested third party, particularly when he’s being asked to do the dirty work. Did it seem that way to you?

  10. #10 cory
    March 20, 2008

    Ye Gods*, man…have you no GROUCHO GLASSES????

    *sorry…the god-punchers have all the god oaths.

  11. #11 Quidam
    March 20, 2008

    Should give you bragging rights over that Dawkins chap. “Oh Richard – who did they recognise trying to see eXpelled? The ‘famous’ Richard Dawkins or the instantly recognizable PZ? Huh Huh.”

  12. #12 TTT
    March 20, 2008

    Probably from Blackwater.

  13. #13 sashas
    March 20, 2008

    HAHAHAH! thats classic! OMG thats hilarious!

  14. #14 Nick K
    March 20, 2008

    My wife is looking at me right now in wonderment. She is trying to figure out why I’m laughing so hard.
    …………..That …………
    …………..was ………….
    …………brilliant!

  15. #15 PZ Myers
    March 20, 2008

    I’m actually wondering how they knew it was me — I’m not that recognizable, and I was standing next to Richard Freaking Dawkins.

    Speaking of which, I should probably head back to the theater. If the creationists spot this post, they might be frantically calling the local organizers right now, telling the police to rush in and grab suspicious British looking characters from the audience.

  16. #16 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    I didn’t look at his badge carefully

    you’re still there.

    seriously, if they are actual police officers, they are not acting legally in any sense I am aware of.

    It needs to be an issue if the producers of Expelled can buy actual cops to act as enforcers.

    OTOH, if they are just “mall security guards” it still probably exceeds their authority, but I wouldn’t see it worth making an issue of.

    This is actually kind of spooky, if you ask me.

    Hired thugs to keep out “undesirables”?

    sounds like a GW “town hall meeting” to me.

  17. #17 cory
    March 20, 2008

    Ummm…good OATHS, I was supposed to type. Must be the two Hoegaardens I just had at dinner typing.

  18. #18 Greta Christina
    March 20, 2008

    Oh…

    my…

    Loki.

    That is completely hilarious. I wonder if the people sitting next to him at the theater will recognize him from the movie. You have to keep us updated.

    And yes, I’m also irritated by the use of an actual public law enforcement officer to kick you out. But technically, it’s probably legal. Private property, “we reserve the right to refuse service to anybody,” etc. Using cops to keep people out a movie because they may say mean things about it is rather an abuse of the principle… but it’s probably not actually illegal.

  19. #19 Cyde Weys
    March 20, 2008

    Not even letting someone who was in the movie attend the movie pretty much tells you all you need to know, doesn’t it? Could they be any more dishonest?

  20. #20 afterthought
    March 20, 2008

    That is really, really funny. These folks seem to be incompetent at everything they do. I do hope they don’t see this post before the movie ends as they might go after Richard. Then again, stopping the movie, turning on the lights, and tossing out a nice gentleman might be bad press, no?

  21. #21 JStein
    March 20, 2008

    That’s hilarious, PZ. I know that Dawkins doesn’t run a weblog and so he’s not actively satirizing every juicy piece of creationist propaganda shoved in his face, but this is just ridiculous.

    I mean, you’re a big name, PZ, but the fact that they let the face of atheism in to see the movie and made a point of kicking you out… just what the fuck?!?

    Oh well, I guess fundies will be fundies.

  22. #22 xailith
    March 20, 2008

    That’s like the creme brulee of comedy. Rich, decadent, and absolutely sinfully delicious.

  23. #23 Bob
    March 20, 2008

    Outstanding, PZ. I laughed so hard I still hurt.

    Hypochristianity in action, again.

  24. #24 Wesley R. Elsberry
    March 20, 2008

    That is a hoot, PZ. I’m glad that there was no Mirecki-style rough stuff to go with the disinvitation.

    Please tell us that Dr. Dawkins will have a guest post here telling us of his experience this evening.

    I was kicked out of the 2002 RAPID conference, but at least I was treated to dinner by the conference organizer as a consolation prize of sorts. It sounds like the IDC community has gotten grumpier with the passage of time.

  25. #25 Carlie
    March 20, 2008

    That’s what I wondered – did they put out an APB on bearded professor-looking types? And letting Dawkins in but not you will have me laughing for DAYS.

    Wait, everyone who went to see it had to SIGN IN AND SHOW ID? Where was this being shown? I totally would want to throw a massive fit in line about identity theft and how they weren’t entitled to my personal information just to see a movie.

  26. #26 Reed Braden
    March 20, 2008

    Holy hell!!! That’s the most hysterical thing I’ve ever heard!

  27. #27 Greg
    March 20, 2008

    Laughed OUT LOUD

  28. #29 glopk
    March 20, 2008

    Man, if it was an intentional diversion you’ve earned your Intelligence Tradecraft Badge of Merit right there.

    Thanks for the laugh, can’t wait to hear Mr. Dawkins review of the projection.

  29. #30 Schmeer
    March 20, 2008

    Oh I can’t wait to hear more from Richard about the rest of the event.
    Did these doofuses even realize that Richard Dawkins was in the US right now? You’d think if they put up PZ wanted posters they might have told the ID-checker at the door to look for Dennet, Hitchens, Harris or Dawkins. Wow, how’s that for not thinking things all the way through?

  30. #31 Barry
    March 20, 2008

    Nicccce! I can’t wait to hear what he has to say about it.

  31. #32 Nerdette
    March 20, 2008

    I want to know if Dawkins managed to keep a straight face as he entered the theatre. Oh, my belly hurts from laughing so hard!

  32. #33 minusRusty
    March 20, 2008

    PZ!! CALL THE PRESS AND HAVE DAWKINS INTERVIEWED AFTER THE MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

  33. #34 paul
    March 20, 2008

    Priceless. I’ll have to head over to Dawkins’ site in the next couple of days. It’s gonna be entertainment.

  34. #35 syntyche
    March 20, 2008

    Epic. Fail.

  35. #36 Josh
    March 20, 2008

    I second minus’ comment – call the press. Right. Now. TV, radio, newspaper. This is tooooooo good to let go. Call Richard on his cell.

  36. #37 Cafeeine
    March 20, 2008

    On that point, wasn’t Richard interviewed for Expelled? by what right can they keep him from seeing a movie he appears in?

  37. #38 Julie K
    March 20, 2008

    That is totally awesome. Hysterical. I laughed so hard I scared my cat.

  38. #39 Dude
    March 20, 2008

    That is pure awesome PZ!

  39. #40 Nick K
    March 20, 2008

    As an aside…. Ummm… How long was the line??

  40. #41 Candy
    March 20, 2008

    I think you should contact someone from the Minneapolis papers – preferably someone you have reason to believe might be sympathetic – and give him or her this story. It would be great press!

  41. #42 LK
    March 20, 2008

    LOL, nice work. Can’t wait for tomorrow.

  42. #44 Carlie
    March 20, 2008

    Could you stand just outside theater grounds to greet people as they come out? “Hi, I’m PZ, and I was in the movie…”

    I would dearly love it if Dawkins started yelling back at the screen during his parts. “That’s not what I meant!!!”

  43. #45 Monado, FCD
    March 20, 2008

    Priceless!

    They’ll be so sorry they fixated on “anyone with tentacles and a beard” instead of recognizing different varieties of reality-based humans.

  44. #46 Pete
    March 20, 2008

    Congratulations! Getting barred from Expelled must be much better than seeing it.
    This is almost like a Seinfeld episode.

  45. #47 Buffybot
    March 20, 2008

    That’s hysterical. I can’t wait to see how the Expelled and DI numpties try to put a positive spin on this later.

  46. #48 Mike Crichton
    March 20, 2008

    You Win Teh Internet. :-D

  47. #49 Ian H Spedding FCD
    March 20, 2008

    Priceless! Absolutely priceless!

    You have to tell us, was this a cunning plan or a brilliant piece of improvisation?

  48. #50 Josh
    March 20, 2008

    I’m wanting to know how it is that the producers were able to convince the theater to expel PZ? Is this not a public screening? And, if this was a real cop, on what legal grounds did he order him off the premises? Seriously, something’s not right here. But boy, it will make for GREAT publicity against those asshats.

  49. #51 Pete
    March 20, 2008

    Damn you, PZ! I almost choked on my Guinness!

    Brilliant!

    oh wait… no. The opposite of that.

  50. #52 HalfMooner
    March 20, 2008

    This is as wonderful as it is hilarious! Thanks for running interference for Richard Dawkins, PZ!

    (ROTFL! Imagining the Expelled flacks keeping tabs on your site, then sending their compliant police through the theater with bright flashlights, looking for the atheist Brit!)

  51. #53 rmp
    March 20, 2008

    There is absolutely no other response to this but

    OMG

  52. #54 Barry
    March 20, 2008

    Even if they didn’t recognize his face, how did they miss the name “Richard Dawkins” on his ID or passport?

  53. #55 Alex
    March 20, 2008

    That’s awesome. Remember to give us an update when you have a chance. :)

  54. #56 BB
    March 20, 2008

    More than 50 posts post-posting? Awesome! And: … Dawkins? Someawe!!! I dearly hope he enjoys the movie, and takes it with a crumb of salt. (A bit of dry humor might help.)

  55. #57 devin rankin
    March 20, 2008

    They could be real police officers. Police often work “off duty” in full uniform when they are hired by a private company or person to provide security. Most departments require the job to be aproved by the department. But not all do. I was a police officer here in Phoenix for 22 years and it is something that is quite common here and, talking to officers from other parts of the country, quite common other places.

    Devin

  56. #58 Triphesas
    March 20, 2008

    How I would have loved to see that. :)

  57. #59 Candy
    March 20, 2008

    Theatres are not generally “public” in the First Amendment sense of publicly owned. They are privately owned businesses and can refuse service to anyone, as long as they don’t violate laws prohibiting specific discrimination against classes of citizens. They can and do refuse to allow people in who violate dress codes such as no shirt no shoes no service. Chances are the cop is an off-duty policeman moonlighting as security, which is also legal. That being said, who the hell has a movie screening and wants to keep people out? The way these idiots are going about their “marketing” is simply stoopid.

  58. #60 miller
    March 20, 2008

    Oh, Expelled! Ever the source of comedy!

  59. #61 Kimpatsu
    March 20, 2008

    Expelled from “Expelled”, but Dawkins was admitted?!
    Not exactly joined-up thinking from the doffuses, is it?

  60. #62 Cafeeine
    March 20, 2008

    I truly cannot imagine how they thought that whatever commentary PZ had on the film would be worse then this. It is really amusing, and I second the idea that getting it on video would have been awesome.

  61. #63 PZ Myers
    March 20, 2008

    I’m actually a bit stuck as far as alerting the media — no cell phones, remember?

    If any locals in the twin cities want to call the area news and let them know that the infamous atheist Richard Dawkins got in to see this creationist movie, and he’s at the AMC 14 at the Mall of America, please do. The movie started around 7:30, I imagine it will be over around 9 or 9:30.

    I’m just going to hang around outside the theater. I’m sure any reporters who show up will recognize me, and I’ll point Dawkins out to them.

  62. #64 extatyzoma
    March 20, 2008

    oh heck, you should have BOTH beeen wearing a burka.

  63. #65 Shaggy
    March 20, 2008

    The strategy of keeping the skeptical and rational sectors of society out of preview screenings of this movie makes a lot of sense. If we can’t see it we can’t destroy it’s credibility before it is widely released, and it follows that they will be able to blindside uninformed people much more easily.

    As far as this situation goes… this is a total lollercaust!

  64. #66 J-Dog
    March 20, 2008

    Congratualtions – It’s for a good coause.

    But how did they not bust ALL the Irony Meters in the Minn-St. Paul are with your”expulsion”?

    And Double Irony Points for them letting in Richard! If Kristine is with you say Hi!

  65. #67 pcrthis
    March 20, 2008

    First time poster, long time lurker:

    This is so full of win, I can’t stand it

  66. #68 extatyzoma
    March 20, 2008

    PZ, if what you are saying is true its just so funny. It must have been incredibly exciting, a bit like being underage and getting caught trying to go in a nightclub when all the while your underage buddy has got in there….with all the drugs!!

  67. #69 Cafeeine
    March 20, 2008

    Shaggy,

    I completely understand this, however the manner this was executed was so shoddily done that was a proverbial bullet in the foot.

  68. #70 Sastra
    March 20, 2008

    I don’t understand why this was done — how is this going to be spun from their point of view? I mean, what the heck was the purpose?

    “The atheist establishment is so dangerous that we had to keep them out of this movie for YOUR PROTECTION because — what?”

    You will yell things at the screen?
    You will write down the names of all the Christians who came to see this movie?
    You will allow demons into the theater, and they will cause people to become possessed?
    You will spill your popcorn and drinks, because atheists have no moral sense — and their balance is bad, too?
    You will plant a bomb?
    You will use the information in the movie to plan counter attacks for your own movie?
    You will blog about the movie — and goodness knows we can’t have that?
    You have “atheist cooties?”

    I don’t get how they plan on spinning this for their public. What the heck are they going to tell people they were afraid of?

    Or are they just afraid you would enjoy yourself?

    Dumb.

  69. #71 gir
    March 20, 2008

    HA! That is absolutely hysterical. Love it!

  70. #72 olivermcrae
    March 20, 2008

    Unbelievable. These hucksters couldn’t have shot themselves more directly in the foot.

    I’d also like to repeat the call for a Richard Dawkins guest post…

  71. #73 PZ Myers
    March 20, 2008

    Kristine is here, as are my wife and Skatje, as well as a few people from the RDF, including Josh Timonen. I saw a few other atheists in line, too. It’s like they let the whole gang in while trying to intimidate li’l ol’ me!

  72. #74 Amadán
    March 20, 2008

    Pleasepleaseplease let some fundie see this post and have Dawkins put out. The irony (fundies, look it up…)

    Oh, my sides hurt.

    I am … honoured to have been virtually present at this pwning. Bravo.

  73. #75 Amadán
    March 20, 2008

    Pleasepleaseplease let some fundie see this post and have Dawkins put out. The irony (fundies, look it up…)

    Oh, my sides hurt.

    I am … honoured to have been virtually present at this pwning. Bravo.

  74. #76 Hank Fox
    March 20, 2008

    This is too good.

    Now Ben Stein has something in common with the Scientologists — shadowy spies keeping tabs on a list of designated enemies.

    I’d love to know the sequence of events behind the curtain of their organization that managed to single you out for special treatment.

    And if this was a public showing, I think you have the basis for a serious lawsuit.

  75. #77 Bee
    March 20, 2008

    That is the funniest thing I’ve heard in weeks.

    And… these Expelled people are really insane. It’s a movie, ferwhutsake!

  76. #78 Summer Squirrel
    March 20, 2008

    Lurker here, first time comment. That post was GREAT! My little atheist heart is laughing so hard! Please let Richard post his review of this movie.

  77. #79 Milo Johnson
    March 20, 2008

    I was actually getting pretty indignant until I got to the “Richard Dawkins” part, and then the laughter came. Now I have to go see if this sudden pain is actually a hernia or not…

  78. #80 Jennifer
    March 20, 2008

    I may not be laughing as hard as you are, but I am laughing out loud.

  79. #81 Paul Hands
    March 20, 2008

    OH YES!!!!

    That has brightened up an otherwise dismal (good) Friday. Here in Ireland the hypocrisy is at fever pitch, and this news is just brilliant.

  80. #82 CalGeorge
    March 20, 2008

    Best post EVER!!!!!!!

    Awesome!

  81. #83 Mark P.
    March 20, 2008

    RRRROOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLL

    I’m sorry that you were “Expelled,” PZ, but this is the FUNNIEST thing I’ve EVER heard! LMAOOOOOOOOOO
    I can’t wait to hear Dawkins’ response to the film!

  82. #84 CanadianChick
    March 20, 2008

    bwahahahaha….

    can’t…

    breathe…

    laughing…

    too hard…

  83. #86 Rich
    March 20, 2008

    GAWD that’s funny! You can’t make that kind of stuff up!!

  84. #87 Godzilla
    March 20, 2008

    Long time lurker, first time poster. Hilarious post!

  85. #88 B. Dewhirst
    March 20, 2008

    Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?

    We are.

  86. #89 Bob L
    March 20, 2008

    I am in awe. You’re the man Dr Myers.

  87. #90 extatyzoma
    March 20, 2008

    hysterical. next time make sure hitchens is there too, pushing his way in, really drunk with ‘were on the bloody guest list you know’.

    its like a friggin comedy act round here at the moment, excellent.

  88. #91 Epikt
    March 20, 2008

    Getting barred from a movie in which you appear, because the producers are afraid you’ll call them out on misrepresenting your position. Magnificent.

    I think your sfik is pretty much infinite now.

  89. #92 Cyde Weys
    March 20, 2008

    I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the hypocrisy of creationists anymore, but then again, they are always one-upping themselves. From what I’ve heard from the write-ups in the movie, they allege a huge conspiracy on the part of science whose goal is to keep all of the non-”evolutionists” out. In other words, there’s all this evidence against it, but anyone who dares speak truth to power is expelled.

    So how do they possibly justify using the exact same tactics here? Surely sunlight would be the best disinfectant against what they allege the scientific establishment is doing, not copying it wholesale?

    Of course, this is really just projection. They’re claiming that the scientific establishment is guilty of the Orwellian thought control tactics that really only they are using.

  90. #93 Jessa
    March 20, 2008

    Ah, delicious! This story made my day!

    BTW, does anyone have info on where advance screenings will be taking place? The Raleigh, NC area in particular – I would love to get a sneak peek.

  91. #94 Sastra
    March 20, 2008

    Could they have kicked you out so that they could play up the “Now he knows how we feel” angle? Revenge — the worm finally turns, and now the atheist biology professor gets it? Creationists rejoice, because we finally have a chance to do to them what they do to us? See how HE likes it! This is what THEY do — in our science labs and classrooms! We’re still fighting for the Little Guy, and for Jesus.

    I mean, this is just so dumb from their own point of view. I keep trying to figure out what their spin is. They want to be seen as victims. Removing someone who wants to sit quietly and watch the movie makes no freaking sense if you’re playing into a narrative of being oppressed.

    Maybe they think fellow creationists will get a sense of justice satisfied? This is some kind of ‘pay back?’

  92. #95 Puneet
    March 20, 2008

    My roommate showed me this two minutes ago and I literally burst into laughter.

    Hopefully Dawkins gets to stick around for the entire thing; then he can spread the word about how the people who made Expelled are the most hypocritical people ever.

  93. #96 raven
    March 20, 2008

    You should have thought ahead. Get someone with a video camera to record you being evicted. Then on to YouTube.

    Geesh, PZ, you missed your chance to be a movie star. I’m sure some of the frames would look good on T shirts, mouse pads, and coffee mugs. Think of the tie ins. PZ action figures, lunch boxes, and Holiday cards.

    Academics are so clueless. I bet you don’t even have an agent.

  94. #97 Michael X
    March 20, 2008

    That was beautiful.

  95. #98 Brigit
    March 20, 2008

    ROFL sooo hard my cat ran away! I wish there was some magical live video feed of this. Beyond awesome.

  96. #100 Alan Kellogg
    March 20, 2008

    Dawkins was with PZ and family. It could be that someone told the theater manager that the evil Richard Dawkins was about to enter his cinema to watch Expelled, and he took a wild guess has to which of two men was the nefarious fellow. :)

  97. #101 RBH
    March 20, 2008

    Man, I can’t imagine how those guys have any toes left, they shoot themselves themselves in the foot so often.

  98. #102 Bad
    March 20, 2008

    PZ: can you tell us a little more about the nature of the screening?

    Was it more open than previous carefully selected audiences? Was it a test screening that they opened in an area they just hoped would be almost universally religious? What’s the deal with even allowing random people into the screening at all, given their past behavior?

  99. #103 Bruce
    March 20, 2008

    This may be the most awesome post ever!!! I can’t wait to hear from Dawkins and the others.

  100. #104 gbusch
    March 20, 2008

    This has the hallmarks of mileage. Press, cartoons and blogs abound will relay their gaff and the irony for a long time to come.

  101. #105 Ivan A D'Mocracy
    March 20, 2008

    Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?
    Yes. YEs. OHH YEESS!!!

    (almost better than sex!)

  102. #106 cognitive dissident
    March 20, 2008

    Yes, I’m laughing as hard as you are…and so is my spouse, ever since I pointed out your post as the source of my merriment.

    This is a classic story, and “Expelled” is *so* p0wned!

  103. #107 Wesley R. Elsberry
    March 20, 2008

    I tried contacting several of the TV stations in the area, and only got a “maybe” from KTCI.

    Can somebody light up the newspapers?

  104. #108 RBH
    March 20, 2008

    Man, I can’t imagine how those guys have any toes left, they shoot themselves in the foot so often.

  105. #109 Jackson
    March 20, 2008

    there aren’t even words for this. absolutely made my night…

  106. #110 tonyx
    March 20, 2008

    This is awesome! XD i cant wait to read the review!, i hope skatje would make one as well :P

  107. #111 Carlie
    March 20, 2008

    Wesley, you are awesome. I’d try to help, but I doubt they care about what someone several states away thinks. :)

  108. #112 Zarquon
    March 20, 2008

    Of course Dawkins has an Oxbridge English accent so they were compelled to let him through.

  109. #113 Hank Fox
    March 20, 2008

    Some contact info I ferreted out, for somebody on the ground there in the Twin Cities:

    Minneapolis Star Tribune Newspaper
    News Tips / Story Ideas
    General News 612-673-4414
    St. Paul Bureau 651-227-0656

    WCCO AM 830 Radio
    Newsroom, 612-333-9181
    Main:(612) 370-0611
    Toll Free Studio:1-866-989-9226
    Listener Studio Lines: 612 or 651- 989-9226
    news@wccoradio.cbs.com

    KNOW FM 91.1
    MPR News
    Newsroom telephone: 651-290-1424
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  110. #114 Dentarthurdent
    March 20, 2008

    Allow me to list the things these people did wrong,
    Also Known As “4 steps to epic fail”

    1. Create ridiculous propaganda film

    2. Use hired muscle to prevent entrance of critics thus showing everyone the blatant hypocrisy of your production.

    3. The guards you hired are so ignorant that they let the critics attend in droves.

    4. You marketing pitch is about different viewpoints being censored.

  111. #115 Bobby
    March 20, 2008

    *Falls down on the ground in praise*

    I AM NOT WORTHY, I AM NOT WORTHY!

    I seriously spent five minutes laughing after I read this.

  112. #116 extatyzoma
    March 20, 2008

    I suppose pz got expelled as he has a FSM shirt on or something equally offensive. RD got in as he may have been wearing a rather more subtle ‘galapagos holiday’ type shirt.

    seriously though, when people start dictating who can and who cannot see a film you just know who is on the ‘right’ side.

  113. #117 386sx
    March 20, 2008

    That is great. It couldn’t have turned out better! Hilarity.

  114. #118 toomanytribbles
    March 20, 2008

    uncontrollable… hysterical… laughter……

  115. #119 Eclectic
    March 20, 2008

    Oh, wow. That had me not just laughing out loud, but howling out loud. They make a big show of stopping Beelzebub and let Satan himself walk right in.

    Is is illegal for a generally public facility like a mall or movie theater to discriminate against a class of people without good reason, but generally a private property owner can refuse to admit against a particular person pretty much arbitrarily. “He married my brother’s ex-wife” or even less.

  116. #120 eewolf
    March 20, 2008

    Creationists: pulling embarrassment from the jaws of defeat for 150 years.

  117. #121 Tainted Bill
    March 20, 2008

    I am laughing so hard right now. Stupid creationists.

  118. #122 SteadyEddy
    March 20, 2008

    I’m amusing Dawkins will somehow fit this into his talk tomorrow. :) Can’t wait, it’s going to be a Great Friday.

  119. #123 Escuerd
    March 20, 2008

    Oh the multiple ironies.

    This is truly one of the funniest posts in a while.

  120. #124 Simon Owens
    March 20, 2008

    Oh, that’s too good.

  121. #125 extatyzoma
    March 20, 2008

    post #110.

    they may have thought RD was actually prince charles so let him in without question.

  122. #126 Eric
    March 20, 2008

    So wait a sec… they ID’d people at the door… and Dawkins still got in? How did that work? “Excuse me, you – bearded fellow, you need to leave. Oh Richard Dawkins, how are you doing? I’ve heard a lot about you, it’s nice to finally meet you. Right this way, sir.”

  123. #127 bfish
    March 20, 2008

    I just e-mailed an editor at the Star-Tribune who is a childhood friend of my wife. No way to know if he is online – it’s well after work hours in the Twin Cities. Someone local should call the paper, using the contact info above.

  124. #128 mayhempix
    March 20, 2008

    Too fucking funny.
    Right out of a movie, figuratively and literally.

    Maybe there is an Atheist God after all.

    Just kidding… but “Atheist God” is a great oxymoron.

    ;^ )

  125. #129 FireforScience
    March 20, 2008

    I never post here, but this was best thing I’ve read all week so I had to.
    Creationist really are the most asinine people on the planet.

  126. #130 Scrofulum
    March 20, 2008

    I expect they let Prof Dawkins in as they hope he’ll be swayed by their arguements into accepting creationism . . er . .ology as a valid sceintific theory.

    Obviously they harbour no such feelings about you, PZ!

  127. #131 Tony
    March 20, 2008

    While I think we are all able to appreciate the irony of it, I do think you relented too easily.

    Imagine the headlines had you not played along with their pettiness: Local Theater arrests athiest for wanting to watch Creationism movie.

    That news headline would have spread like wildfire.

  128. #132 James F
    March 20, 2008

    #98

    Dawkins was with PZ and family. It could be that someone told the theater manager that the evil Richard Dawkins was about to enter his cinema to watch Expelled, and he took a wild guess has to which of two men was the nefarious fellow. :)

    For the next screening, send in Sam Harris with Ben Stiller as the decoy.

  129. #133 Marita
    March 20, 2008

    You’re in a giant mall, right? At the very least you should be able to pick up a cheap disposable camera, so you can get a shot of your family and Dawkins coming out of the screening and giving it a big “thumbs down”.

    Your adoring public would be ever so appreciative..

  130. #134 patrick
    March 20, 2008

    Absolutely hilarious!

  131. #135 Patty
    March 20, 2008

    Funny, funny, really funny!

  132. #136 Hank Fox
    March 20, 2008

    Forgot to say this:

    Someone call those news organizations. Seriously, this is a major story for that area.

    The idea that nice Christian anti-evolutionists are actively EXPELLING people from the line (with armed guards/cops! – if that’s what it was) to see their phony-baloney movie should be trumpeted around the world.

    Don’t just suggest they cover it. Tell them who and what this is all about. Convince them that they’ll regret it if they just let this slide, because if they do it right, this story will be picked up on the wire and repeated all over the world.

    Ben Stein and his cronies can’t take the heat, so they have to preached to picked audiences. I seem to remember a certain president who follows the same strategy.

  133. #137 Chayanov
    March 20, 2008

    No, I’m not laughing. I’m pissed because I totally forgot today was the 20th, and I completely missed my chance, being a short drive from MOA. Ah well.

  134. #138 Janus
    March 20, 2008

    Bwahahahahahahahaaaaaa! Those IDiots! Unbelievable.

  135. #139 Joe Albietz
    March 20, 2008

    Oh oh, I think we may be in trouble. This is the best evidence for a god I have ever heard…

    Luckily, this god appears to favor atheists, squid, and hardcore irony. So I guess we’re still good.

  136. #140 Reed A. Cartwright
    March 20, 2008

    That’s what you get for reserving your tickets under the name PZ Myers. They were looking for you.

    If someone else in your family reserved them, then it would have been fine.

    But still, this is the best out come we could have hoped for. The frauds of Expelled played right into our hands.

  137. #141 Spook
    March 20, 2008

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    *deep breath*

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    I can’t wait to hear how this one pans out… not to mention, what Dawkins has to say about the farce.

  138. #142 Candy
    March 20, 2008

    emailed a Minneapolis T.V. personality who used to be in our area and who had an open mind and great sense of humor. We’ll see. She may be in the studio this evening. Be a shame if no one caught this.

  139. #143 phat
    March 20, 2008

    Holy cow!

    That’s perfect.

    phat

  140. #144 Andrew
    March 20, 2008

    This is unbelievable….

  141. #145 Wesley R. Elsberry
    March 20, 2008

    You can stop calling the Star Tribune. They know about it now.

  142. #146 Zeno
    March 20, 2008

    A splendid story. And think how great the “explanation” from the Expelled flacks will be when they try to brush this aside.

    Fun, fun, fun!

  143. #147 Larry Schanzenbach
    March 20, 2008

    All I can say is, “Sweet”. Who the hell are these people anyway? I live about 15 miles from the MOA and find these morons to be an embarassment. Minnesota nice? Hmmmmmmm? Stay the course, PZ.

  144. #148 Stephanie Z
    March 20, 2008

    I called the Strib. They don’t have anyone on right now whose beat this would be, but I did mention that the conference goes on all weekend. Someone at WCCO is reading the blog right now but doubts they’ll get anyone down there.

  145. #149 Bad
    March 20, 2008

    “You can stop calling the Star Tribune. They know about it now.”

    You got to wonder what the poor guy at the breaking tip desk has to be thinking: it probably took him a couple of minutes to sort out what the heck anyone was talking about.

    “They put a Dawkins in a what now?”

  146. #150 Gary
    March 20, 2008

    Ah… Altruism leading to the survival of the fittest

  147. Added this to the summary of how dishonest Expelled is over at my blog.

  148. #152 Steve Ulven
    March 20, 2008

    Un-fucking-believeable!!! This is truly the most hilarious thing ever. I do not possibly think I will get over the fact of how funny this is.

  149. #153 Geral
    March 20, 2008

    I can’t believe they singled you out for the boot? I can’t wait to see what Dawkins says on this.

  150. #154 mutability
    March 20, 2008

    Those unfortunate people that watching the movie….. I hope their decompression back into the reality is swift. Best wishes!

  151. #155 Hank Fox
    March 20, 2008

    Maybe someone could submit this to Digg or some of the other bookmark sites?

  152. #156 extatyzoma
    March 20, 2008

    post #124

    RD may have said said ‘im Prof Dick Dawkins’.

    whos going to question that??

  153. #157 wildcardjack
    March 20, 2008

    I laughed so hard it hurt.

  154. #158 BillW
    March 20, 2008

    Hey! This gives me an idea borrowed from some civil rights folks. What if we got people to pledge a certain amount of money for everyone who went to a screening of Expelled, counted people who went in to see it, and then use the money collected to fund a movie about the truth – say an anti-Expelled movie. Hmmm. What would the title be? Admitted? Saved? Enlightened? :-)

  155. #159 Despard
    March 20, 2008

    That is absolutely brilliant. :-)

  156. #160 Heather
    March 20, 2008

    Absolutely brilliant! I don’t believe in god, but karma’s a bitch!

  157. #161 Elise
    March 20, 2008

    That is completely awesome! :D

  158. #162 _Arthur
    March 20, 2008

    Of course, there is material for a Civil Rights lawsuit right there, if you was the suing type, PZ.

    The same laws that prevent cinema owners no deny access to Blacks or Jews, also protect you, PZ, no matter what bogus reason they thought they had for refusing you entrance.

  159. #163 thalarctos
    March 20, 2008

    Just when I think my heuristic for what posts I can drink while reading is sufficiently sensitive, I go and read this one–tea out my nose!

    Monad, I liked your artwork, and I really appreciate your cutting it off at the waist like you did. I swear, if I see those legs in those shorts one more time, I’m going to have to take an icepick and put out my mind’s eye.

  160. #164 merkin j pus_tart
    March 20, 2008

    You upstart . . . this must be a blow to Dawkin’s ego

  161. #165 Geral
    March 20, 2008

    I’m sorry PZ. I’m still laughing about the “No Intelligence Allowed” tagline plastered all over this guy’s website.

  162. #166 Sangy
    March 20, 2008

    That is, I have to say, one of the most brilliant things I’ve ever heard of.

  163. #167 Zeno
    March 20, 2008

    If PZ had shaved his beard, they would have never caught him! (Or, judging from their general competence, they would have thought he was Dawkins.)

  164. #168 Ian Maddox
    March 20, 2008

    So, I went over to the Expelled website, and you’ll never guess what quote I saw at the top of the screen:

    “It’s (EXPELLED) going to appeal strongly to the religious, the paranoid, the conspiracy theorists, and the ignorant — which means they’re going to draw in about 90% of the American market.”
    -Atheist blogger and fabulist PZ Myers, on a film he has not yet seen.

    It’s asinine beyond belief, like watching the Three Stooges run a media campaign. PZ, this was the best laugh I’ve had in days, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I’d love to hear what RD has to say about this… be sure to pass along the good bits.

  165. #169 David Smith
    March 20, 2008

    That’s completely hilarious and deeply infuriating all at the same time.

    It’s also a completely perfect story for tonight, the eve of the Jewish holiday of Purim, a night when reason and logic are supposed to get turned upside down and silliness is suppose to triumph! One is actually commanded to get drunk, so drunk that one cannot tell Mordechai (the hero) from Haman (the villan). Perhaps the goons at Expelled were caught up in the spirit(s) of the holiday and could not tell Richard Dawkins from Henry Morris.

    David Smith, not godless, but definitely a liberal, and a scientist (geologist)

  166. #170 Duke York
    March 20, 2008

    Thank you, PZ. It’s always nice to have some confirmation I’m on the right side.

    Duke

  167. #171 Kell
    March 20, 2008

    This is sweet. So very very sweet. I enjoy it now, the sweetness. Oh yes.

  168. #172 Andrew
    March 20, 2008

    There is no grounds for a lawsuit. The theatre was rented out to the producers of the movie for the private screening. That makes it a private event, and they can refuse whomever they please.

    Now, if this was just a regular showing of the film, then that would be a different story.

  169. #173 steadyeddy
    March 20, 2008

    At 8:55pm, I left a message on the cell of a buddy of mine who is a reporter at the StarTribune. Haven’t heard back from him yet… He lives 10 minutes from the MOA.

  170. #174 The Flying Trilobite
    March 20, 2008

    Well, I wonder if a photo of Professor Dawkins will appear on a question on America’s Most Smartest Model? Y’know, to raise public awareness of this menacing chameleon who can infiltrate God’s Army.

    Maybe they will try to pull strings and have him ‘expelled’ out of the U.S.A. for seeing a movie under false pretenses. Man, that’s like, so militant of him.

  171. #175 Martin
    March 20, 2008

    And in any event, suing would be silly. The whole event is such an embarrassment for the Expelled clods that the public hilarity and ridicule it generates will provide enough schadenfreude power to light the Twin Cities for the next 300 years.

  172. #176 JJ
    March 20, 2008

    Too fucking funny !!!! I heard Dawkins speak last night in Austin, Tx. He briefly responded to a question about the film. Can’t wait for the reviews PZ !!!! Is it leagl to escort you out of a public theater ?????

  173. #177 Michelle
    March 20, 2008

    That was a rent-a-cop for sure. :P No policeman would enforce such a silly thing.

    Hilarious. So. Darn. Hilarious. Apparently you are more harmful to their cause than DAWKINS!

  174. #178 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 20, 2008

    Oh that is just too damn good. Incompetence in all areas.

    I think my wife is in for a rough night of sleep. I have a strong feeling I’ll be giggling all night.

  175. #179 Dennis
    March 20, 2008

    Funniest thing I’ve read in a week!

  176. #180 George Cauldron
    March 20, 2008

    Since Ben Stein’s motive in expelling you from the movie was to keep you from writing about it, maybe you should have Dawkins write something up about it for you and post it here? That would have the advantage of REALLY backfiring on that little shit Stein.

  177. #181 Susan Brown
    March 20, 2008

    Gosh, the behavior of the “Expellers” is what you’d expect from the Soviets during the Lysenko era.

    What an awesome story, PZ!

  178. #182 Ian Maddox
    March 20, 2008

    Meh. Who needs legal action? Getting our undies in a bunch and running off to the courts isn’t particularly dignified.

    It’s better just to make sure all of the ID goofballs know what kind of morons they’re following. Digg it up, give the MSM a chance to take a look around, and we’ll see what happens.

  179. #183 Martin
    March 20, 2008

    JJ, yeah, I’m down here in Austin too, and have been blogging about last night’s talk (click my name). At the Austin lecture, RD waxed harshly upon Expelled, saying that if the online trailer were any indication, no one would be persuaded by it who wasn’t already a dishonest, ignorant fool. Now that he’s actually seen it…wow, I can’t wait to hear how he really feels!

  180. #184 RamblinDude
    March 20, 2008

    Hank, and all you diggers out there, it has been dugg.

  181. #185 Tea
    March 20, 2008

    Dawkins who?

  182. #186 Clan:Rewired
    March 20, 2008

    Come on PZ, don’t say you guys are going straight for a Guinness laughing yourselves under the barstool! You dropped this bomb, now tell us what happened next!!!

  183. #187 Lulu
    March 20, 2008

    I think this is funny enough to be shared with digg. And someone submitted it already.

    http://digg.com/general_sciences/Expelled_from_Expelled

  184. #188 ngong
    March 20, 2008

    For the creos to pull something like this, it would require a negative IQ. That’s impossible. One can then only conclude that the guard was an atheist conspirator.

  185. #189 Doc Bill
    March 20, 2008

    Spewed coffee, wine, brandy and broke a rib.

    Dawkins? Holy mother of Tiktaalik save us all.

  186. #190 Kevin L.
    March 20, 2008

    Funniest thing I’ve read in a while. I can’t wait to see what Dawkins has to say about this. Thanks for posting, PZ :)

  187. #191 Lulu
    March 20, 2008

    Oh, jeez, RamblinDude, we must be spiritually connected.

    Or fortuitously coincidentally acting.

  188. #192 disownedsky
    March 20, 2008

    This is the ultimate cool – getting thrown out of Expelled. I wish I had enough notoriety and cred to get thrown out, but alas…

  189. #193 ScottH
    March 20, 2008

    Does anyone know how you would get this story to The Daily Show? I should think Stewart & Co. would love this story as much as we do. And it deserves national exposure.

  190. #194 Hank Fox
    March 20, 2008

    Everybody who Diggs, go there and vote the story up. This is something Diggers will laugh out loud to know.

  191. #195 JJ
    March 20, 2008

    Martin

    Thanks for the link to the blog. I am actually in the Dallas area. Spend quite a bit of time in Austin fighting the evolution battle. Will be back to hear Ken Miller on April 4. Maybe we can catch up then.

  192. #196 Justin Moretti
    March 20, 2008

    These stupid ID/Creo bastards are full of epic fail. If there is a God, he is by now so disgusted with their hypocrisy and dishonesty that he has arranged a skip-the-queue function for them in Hell.

    Happy being-kicked-out-day, PZ. But if I’ve read aright, Skatje’s almost as dangerous as you are anyway, so they are even more full of epic fail. Be fun to know how the whole thing played out.

  193. #197 BlueIndependent
    March 20, 2008

    I can see it now. Fresh headline on AiG and DI tomorrow morning: PZ Myers and Richard Dawkins cause scene at screening of Expelled in a Twin Cities mall.

    I bet $1,000,000.00 in Monopoly money that’s where they go with this. They are going to try to carpet-sweep this thing something fierce.

  194. #198 ChrisGose
    March 20, 2008

    Wow.

    This is epic win and epic fail all at the same time.

    It’s ingenius I tell you.

  195. #199 DustPuppyOI
    March 20, 2008

    Can someone submit this story to fark? I think there is a photoshop opportunity here too.

    Perhaps there’s a fundraising opportunity too – maybe a custom crafted t-shirt with “I was expelled from expelled” signed by both PZ and Richard Dawkins?

  196. #200 Michelle
    March 20, 2008

    I absolutely DUGG this thing!

    Come on diggers! Let’s rise this story to the top where it rightfully belongs!

  197. #201 Eric
    March 20, 2008

    I wonder if the office at the mall was The Mall Ninja!

  198. #202 The Flying Trilobite
    March 20, 2008

    Rev. BigDumbChimp, I’m right there with ya. I almost woke my wife up just to laugh about it with someone…Oh I hope someone’s reporter friend covered this.

    Can we make a holiday? “Sabot Day” or something? We all go to the local art-house theatre wearing Richard Dawkins masks and leave a token friend with a squid-t-shirt waiting outside. Yeah. Has a feeling of ritual about it.

    (Basically I want to laugh about this on an annual basis.)

  199. #203 Jen
    March 20, 2008

    Brilliant! This is hilarious beyond reason! P.Z., you are officially completely awesome. I totaly need graven image of you to put in a place of prominence in my home!

  200. #204 John
    March 20, 2008

    Too Funny!

    MONAD made this:
    [IMG]http://i28.tinypic.com/rhq1zk.jpg[/IMG]

  201. #205 Jackie Stone
    March 20, 2008

    This is fantastic. Yes, I actually did fall off of my bed from laughter…I’m just glad my roommate wasn’t in the room.

    Hopefully Dawkins will post his account of the movie on his website. I bet somebody is going to be in a load of trouble when the producers find out Dawkins got in.

  202. #206 MAJeff, OM
    March 20, 2008

    Thanks for the best laugh I’ve had all day.

  203. #207 Richard
    March 20, 2008

    I wanted to comment on this because this is going to go down in atheist history as one of the greatest moments ever. This is truly a sweet moment. Thank you PZ.

  204. #208 Marcus Ranum
    March 20, 2008

    pwn3d
    t0atal pwn3d

  205. #209 Martin
    March 20, 2008

    JJ, that could work. Will be nice to meet you.

  206. #210 Buzz Parsec
    March 20, 2008

    I haven’t read all 185 posts yet, so maybe someone else has already told you this, but I would contact the ACLU immediately. This is a clear civil rights violation. A theater is a place of public accommodation, and can’t deny service to *anyone* solely for reasons of religious denomination (or lack thereof). All the people who have been posting that “it’s private property, they can kick anyone out for any reason” are just plain *WRONG*.

    (It’s real hard typing this, I’m laughing too hard. So please ignore any typos.)

    So how’s it feel to be the Rosa Parks of invertebrates? :-)

  207. #211 phantomreader42
    March 20, 2008

    Hired thugs to keep out “undesirables”?

    The movie is just most creationist “arguments”. A masterpiece of projection.

    Do they not even notice that they’re doing EXACTLY WHAT THEY’RE ACCUSING TEH EBIL DARWINISTS OF?!!11

    I mean, we know they’re stupid, dishonest, and completely incapable of self-examination. But which of those characteristics should this massive asshattery be attributed to?

  208. #212 impirius
    March 20, 2008

    I guess they don’t know much about “ID” after all.

    Jessa (#91) – if you find any information on a Raleigh/Durham area screening, please pass the word along!

  209. #213 Pantufla Milagrosa
    March 20, 2008

    I have no words to say how good this story makes me feel.

    !!!

  210. #214 Shadow
    March 20, 2008

    Oh my betentacled overlord. I thought I was already having the best day ever, and now I come home to a little sugary rose on on the icing on my cake.

    Priceless. Mastercard-commercial priceless.

  211. #215 Martin
    March 20, 2008

    Buzz, no no! Suing these guys would be like swatting a fly with a howitzer. They’re their own worst enemy! They’re already crushed! Let the tide of hilarity wash them away…..

  212. #217 Janine, ID
    March 20, 2008

    PZ Myers is THE ATHEIST TROJAN HORSE! This is going to be a story worth telling for many years.

    I have to say it, both PZ and Richard Dawkins are my heros.
    HA HA but that story makes me feel good.

  213. #218 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    But which of those characteristics should this massive asshattery be attributed to?

    why be divisive about it?

    all of the above works.

  214. #219 Michelle
    March 20, 2008

    Would I be wrong if I said this is one of the fastest comment threads I ever seen? I mean, they just PILE UP right now!

    …Rightfully so mind you

  215. #220 Reed
    March 20, 2008

    One might wonder if they have and actual cause to expel you specifically, or whether they were discriminating on the basis of your previously expressed religious views.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode42/usc_sec_42_00002000—a000-.html

    TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER II > § 2000a
    § 2000a. Prohibition against discrimination or segregation in places of public accommodation
    (a) Equal access
    All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.

    Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this subchapter if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:

    (3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and

    emphasis added.

    You might want to have one of your “Guests” get the officers name, badge number and affiliation. If they can get a reason for your expulsion, so much the better.

  216. #221 ndt
    March 20, 2008

    Damn, that’s funny.

  217. #222 firemancarl
    March 20, 2008

    All I could say is holy shit!

  218. #223 Berto
    March 20, 2008

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

  219. #224 Kseniya
    March 20, 2008

    “Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?”

    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  220. #225 chancelikely
    March 20, 2008

    Predicted IDiot spin angle: they’ll whine about all the posts here suggesting legal action by PZ. Just a guess, seeing as how the alternative is deny and ignore.

    Well, maybe deny and ignore will be the tack they choose.

  221. #226 Kevin L.
    March 20, 2008

    I should add that I am incredibly jealous of you and Skatje for the fact that you’re keeping company with Richard Dawkins.

    Great stuff :)

  222. #227 silence
    March 20, 2008

    Reed: Sure, but they could have decided that PZ Meyers was likely to pan them in his review of the movie, and decided to try to keep him out for that reason. Unless somebody is willing to take the case to discovery to try and find out if they were dumb enough to write down their reasons, I’d be astonished if you could win that one in court.

  223. #228 Greg N.
    March 20, 2008

    Brilliant.

  224. #229 RamblinDude
    March 20, 2008

    Oh, jeez, RamblinDude, we must be spiritually connected.

    Or fortuitously coincidentally acting.

    Serendipitously synchronous? :-)

    I don’t know, I’m kind of dissapointed that you didn’t make a scene PZ. I have this wild image of the keystone cops chasing you and Professor Dawkins around the mall. :-)

  225. #230 Amers
    March 20, 2008

    Not to take the wind out of your sails, but do you think that the cop took you out when he was supposed to take Dawkins out?

  226. #231 Mytho
    March 20, 2008

    BWAHAHahahahahahahaha!

  227. #232 gabriel
    March 20, 2008

    Priceless! This makes my month! Oh, this is beautiful!

  228. #233 Sharilyn
    March 20, 2008

    Movie ticket to Expelled, $9.00
    Popcorn and pop $10.50
    Being thrown out of a movie you actually appear in, PRICELESS

  229. #234 impirius
    March 20, 2008

    Alright, this is up on Reddit now… spread the word on whatever social media sites you use! This is way too hilarious to keep to ourselves.

    http://reddit.com/r/atheism/info/6cuym/comments/

  230. #235 Marcus Ranum
    March 20, 2008

    Someone needs to spin Hitch up with a 5th and point him at the movie. Make sure you capture the explosion on video.

  231. #236 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    I don’t know, I’m kind of dissapointed that you didn’t make a scene PZ. I have this wild image of the keystone cops chasing you and Professor Dawkins around the mall. :-)

    ala Benny Hill?

    yeah, I can just picture it…

  232. #237 Kevin
    March 20, 2008

    post #200: Seconded!
    I almost feel sorry for the cop.

  233. #238 ERV
    March 20, 2008

    **high fives everyone in the room**

    Epic win. EPIC!!!! YAAAAAAAY!!!

  234. #239 Angus
    March 20, 2008

    On the last episode of Real Time With Bill Maher I seem to remember the end credits displayed who was going to be on the next episode (the one airing this week). If I recall correctly Richard Dawkins will be on Real Time with Bill Maher. Perhaps we should all tune in!

  235. #240 Steve
    March 20, 2008

    Ha Ha! Dawkins for teh win!!!111!!!

  236. #241 Crudely Wrott
    March 20, 2008

    This is History in the making! And it’s hilarious, ironic, revealing and, well, lots of stuff about it lends infinitely increasing credibility! Everybody chalk up another point on the tally board. YEEEEE-HAAAAA!

  237. #242 Ctenophore
    March 20, 2008

    OMG. Thanks to that producer for accidentally creating the most hilarious circumstance that i would never have imagined!

  238. #243 Shaw Kenawe
    March 20, 2008

    Best, best laugh I’ve had in many a day. Oh gawd.

  239. #244 gabriel
    March 20, 2008

    reminds me of the verse “strain out a gnat, swallow a camel.” no offense, PZ, of course.

    Hilarious! We’re all waiting for the post-movie interviews!!

  240. #245 John
    March 20, 2008

    I’m glad you all think that HATE CRIMES are funny.

    Once PZ calms down and thinks about being thrown out of a public theatre, in front of his wife, kids, and Richard Friggin Dawkins – PZ WILL BE PISSED!

    This is some serious shit.

    I would be LIVID.
    Hell, I’m livid right now.

  241. #246 Hank Fox
    March 20, 2008

    47 Diggs as of this moment. By morning it should be gold.

    http://digg.com/general_sciences/Expelled_from_Expelled

    They threatened with arrest a man THEY put in the movie, after interviewing him under false pretenses.

  242. #247 Aaron
    March 20, 2008

    Oh my dear science that’s hilarious.

  243. #248 RamblinDude
    March 20, 2008

    Sastra 92#, You may be on to something. They may have done this on purpose knowing the controversy would raise ticket sales.

  244. #249 Doug
    March 20, 2008

    PZ should send a thank you note to the folks at Expelled. They saved him from having to wade through two hours of BS.

  245. #250 James F
    March 20, 2008

    “No, you idiot! I said watch out for Richard Dawkins, not Stephen Hawking! Dawkins!“

  246. #251 Boosterz
    March 20, 2008

    I *heart* creationists getting pwned. Please tell me that when this was all going on there was some kick ass Trans Siberian Orchestra playing in the background. Like maybe Beethoven’s 5th or something along those lines. I’d even settle for Ride of the Valkyries. lol

    http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-cat-pwns-dog.jpg

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2061/2048486208_43f04098cc.jpg

  247. #252 nystagman
    March 20, 2008

    PZ, you are truly a professor non gratis.

  248. #253 Jules
    March 20, 2008

    #240 – Don’t you mean OMFSM?

  249. #254 Calilasseia
    March 20, 2008

    HAHAHAHAHA!

    You can’t make this up.

    As if the movie itself wasn’t totally retarded in its premise, they NOW HAND AN ABSOLUTE PR GIFT TO PZ.

    PZ, If I were you, I’d call CNN. They’d HAVE to interview you about this!

  250. #255 Chris Harrison
    March 20, 2008

    Hahahahahahaha.
    Hearty laughter abounds!
    MY Myers, I applaud you.

  251. #256 Danny
    March 20, 2008

    You should have allowed yourself to be arrested. You were to commit no crime at all. Please don’t show courage on the web only to show cowardice in real life. Is this how you stand up for what you believe?

  252. #257 Stripe
    March 20, 2008

    I am a lurker over on Phil’s site, came over to take a look at the fun and games over here to see what the BadAstronomer was writing about. This is hilarious, have to hang around to find out how this turns out. :)

  253. #258 SteadyEddy
    March 20, 2008

    Still haven’t heard back from my StarTrib reporter buddy… is there a limit to how many voicemails I can leave?

    Unless the fundies roped everyone into a post-movie group hug/donation session, I’m guessing the movie is already out.

  254. #259 Chris Harrison
    March 20, 2008

    Hahahahahahaha.
    Hearty laughter abounds!
    Mr Myers, I applaud you.

  255. #260 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 20, 2008

    Still laughing. I think i may need to grab a single barrel bourbon on the rocks to calm me down.

    This is really one of the funniest things I’ve heard all year.

    I CAN NOT wait to read the spin on this.

  256. #261 Angus
    March 20, 2008

    “On the last episode of Real Time With Bill Maher I seem to remember the end credits displayed who was going to be on the next episode (the one airing this week). If I recall correctly Richard Dawkins will be on Real Time with Bill Maher. Perhaps we should all tune in!”

    Update:
    Nowhere is Dawkins Mentioned on Bill Maher’s HBO page. Guests get shuffled about from time to time. I’m still hoping he’s on though.

  257. #262 paul
    March 20, 2008

    #237- just looked up Real Time’s website on HBO.com, and it doesn’t list Richard Dawkins from what I can see. That’d be entertaining though.

  258. #263 Kirk
    March 20, 2008

    I also did laugh out loud. Kind of funny, since I was in the bathroom taking care of a biological need (yay iPhone!) and my roommates have to wonder what was so funny in there.

    BUT, I have a word of caution.

    Do NOT start spamming the media organizations. I work in the media (no contacts in Minny who would be available right now) and nothing turns reporters and editors off a story faster than e-mail after e-mail and call after call on something like this. If dozens of people report an earthquake or severe traffic collision, etc., it makes sense that you’ll get a lot of calls into the newsroom. But something that could be seen as a concerted effort by, say, an advocacy organization quickly gets annoying and may engender a hostile response.

    Now, we all see this as a bit of great breaking news, and they need to know about it to be able to get to all the players who are (were) in place. But, journalists see so many spam campaigns from various groups that something like this might start to be seen as that sort of thing. And that sort of thing then starts smelling like an organized attempt to fake a groundswell reaction to something. The bulk of reporters and editors out there may not be fully aware of the back story here, so constant, repeated e-mails and phone calls could be interpreted that way. Reporters in the know, of course, will understand and have the reaction we’re all having. But the odds are that you’ll get someone who doesn’t really know the score.

    So, as long as there has been some contact with the media, I think we should be content with that. I do know some folks for whom this sort of thing could be useful later, and I’ll be disseminating this within that sphere. I expect this anecdote to become a standard background paragraph in future coverage of this movie.

  259. #264 Ragutis
    March 20, 2008

    A) Fundies have been the demise of many an irony meter, but I think I’m gonna frame the remains of this most recent one. (As much as I can find, at least… it went EVERYWHERE!)

    B) I’m assuming that they simply weren’t expecting Dawkins in Minnesota (Nobody expects the British Biologistician!). Interesting experiment: fly to London, P.Z. and see if you can get in.

    C) Shouldn’t an interviewee be entitled to a screening or advance copy in order to see how they were portrayed or if their position was accurately presented? I mean, that sounds like the ethical… Oh.

    Well, it would be polite… err…

    Never mind. I’m obviously expecting too much.

  260. #265 Joshua
    March 20, 2008

    There’s only one thing to say in this situation: PZ FTW!

  261. #266 Reed A. Cartwright
    March 20, 2008

    Hey, PZ, I hope that when you meet back up with your family and guest, assuming that you don’t have to bail them out of jail, you’ll make another blog post to update the events and post about it on PT as well.

  262. #267 paul
    March 20, 2008

    Crap, forget post 260, just searched a little more thoroughly and he is going to be.

  263. #268 revmonkeyboy
    March 20, 2008

    Lol, extravaganza! That is f-ing great. What total idiots these folks must be. No offense to you, PZ, but Dawkins has to be the most widely recognized atheist in existence. How could they recognize you and totally pass over a widely known skeptic of creationism and rampant insanity. Dawkins has written so many books on the subject. Please Utube an interview with Dawkins after the show. This could really be viral, the logical minority will rejoice with laughter. Even the fence sitters will get the humor of this! I pray to the FSM you can find the time and a camera! This is beyond comedy, it is shockingly hilarious. Thank you for the heads up, it really made my day!

  264. #269 SphinctOr
    March 20, 2008

    ***********************************************
    ** WARNING: Impending DIGG Effect Imminent **
    ***********************************************

    Please Mirror.

    Warning – System Resources Low.

    Warning – Too friggin Funny.

    Warning – System Fail

  265. #270 firemancarl
    March 20, 2008

    All I could say is holy shit!

  266. #271 BlueIndependent
    March 20, 2008

    ROFL @ #248, that is PRICELESS!

  267. #272 Angus
    March 20, 2008

    Paul (#265) Where did you search?

  268. #273 Colin
    March 20, 2008

    I just wrote Seth Myers about it. He probably won’t get the message in time for Weekend Update this Saturday, but it’s worth a shot.

  269. #274 So Larries
    March 20, 2008

    PZ, it is meant to be a tribute to your honesty that I accept this story as the unvarnished truth, even with a punchline that sounds like an urban legend, which it may well become.

  270. #275 Tyler DiPietro
    March 20, 2008

    “You should have allowed yourself to be arrested. You were to commit no crime at all. Please don’t show courage on the web only to show cowardice in real life. Is this how you stand up for what you believe?”

    Well, there’s always criminal trespass and disturbance of the peace. If I were in PZ’s position, I know I’d be iffy about the legality of it. He wouldn’t have accomplished anything by making a fuss and getting arrested, not to mention that this delicious irony wouldn’t have come about if he’d done otherwise.

  271. #276 Jesús Pineda
    March 20, 2008

    Absolutely HILARIOUS!!!!! Can’t wait for Dawkins’ comments on the movie. Just goes to show how dumb you have to be to buy into the whole ID nonsense: keep the cephalopods out, but let the Babe Ruth of atheism in… Oh the hilarity!

  272. #277 paul
    March 20, 2008

    @270, I clicked on the HBO schedule, and the listing for 3/21 lists richard dawkins. don’t know if it’s been updated since then though, so i don’t know.

  273. #278 Jesús Pineda
    March 20, 2008

    Absolutely HILARIOUS!!!!! Can’t wait for Dawkins’ comments on the movie. Just goes to show how dumb you have to be to buy into the whole ID nonsense: keep the cephalopods out, but let the Babe Ruth of atheism in… Oh the hilarity!

  274. #279 pshaw
    March 20, 2008

    PZ… you are my hero for today.

  275. #280 ngong
    March 20, 2008

    I guess there was some kind of list of “likely troublemakers”, and a Dawkins appearance was considered highly improbable. Yet…it happened! Evidence of design!

  276. #281 Angus
    March 20, 2008

    Don’t worry Paul (See post #270) I found it.

  277. #282 T. Bruce McNeely
    March 20, 2008

    Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!

    Once again we have a fine example of why I no longer feel badly about calling cdesign proponentists stupid.

  278. #283 BlueIndependent
    March 20, 2008

    Maybe it won’t make Seth Myers and Weekend Update, but Letterman perhaps, via Franken? Too bad Al was just on. =/

  279. #284 The Flying Trilobite
    March 20, 2008

    #254 Danny;

    Far be it for me to answer for Mr Myers, but being arrested to “stand up for what (he) believe(s)” is not bravery.

    In some cases sheer defiance could be brave, but cool intellect and galvanizing the blogging-troops is standing up for what I suspect Prof. Myers believes.

    If indeed legal action needs to be taken (and I agree with Greta Christina that it may not – this could have been a pre-show screening or party and not a public event)we can all rest assured it will be worked out.

  280. #285 abb3w
    March 20, 2008

    FWIW, having cops around in anticipation of throwing out disruptive undesirables is a perfectly kosher use of the local cops. I worked at a restaurant that routinely had one around. (Mind you, the city I live in is more than a little weird; the local Barnes and Noble was the high point of local crime, including three or four armed robberies until the local cops stated an officer there full-time.)

    On the other hand, I(AmNotALawyer) wonder if you have a Civil Rights case based on religious discrimination. Might be hard to prove if they let Dawkins in, though.

  281. #286 CalGeorge
    March 20, 2008

    So, where are they now? Is the movie over?

    WTF is happening!!!!

  282. #287 Dick Durata
    March 20, 2008

    Come on, PZ, fess up. You were wearing your squid costume, weren’t you?

  283. #288 John
    March 20, 2008

    PZ – We will post your bail!
    Go back and demand to see that crappy movie!
    Offer twice the face value…no wait – that would be nothing.
    Never-mind.

    Damn math.

  284. #289 Boosterz
    March 20, 2008

    Make sure Richard Dawkins saves his ticket stub. Ebay FTW! lol

  285. #290 skidoo
    March 20, 2008

    You don’t even have to give the creationists a shovel. They dig their own graves just fine with their fingernails.

  286. #291 Illucian
    March 20, 2008

    Absolutely priceless.

  287. #292 Gary Bohn
    March 20, 2008

    Not even Hollywood could come up with a script like this.

    Looks like God, god, FSM, and even Loki were all smiling on you today PZ.

  288. #293 Cheezits
    March 20, 2008

    I haven’t read all 185 posts yet, so maybe someone else has already told you this, but I would contact the ACLU immediately.

    Naw, that would spoil the moment. :-D

  289. #294 Dan
    March 20, 2008

    You should have told them you were there to see Horton Hears a Who with your family. You know, like a good family oriented person with strong family values.

  290. #295 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    FWIW, having cops around in anticipation of throwing out disruptive undesirables is a perfectly kosher use of the local cops.

    the problem is:

    who decides which people are “undesirable”.

    I’m sorry, but I completely disagree that this is a kosher use of official police personnel. I would even have an argument about using private personnel to accomplish this.

    We saw GW doing the exact same thing with his televised “town meetings”.

    it’s bullshit, and it’s not good for ya.

    matters not whether it is strictly legal, it’s rather a slippery slope.

  291. #296 noncarborundum
    March 20, 2008

    sfik

    Excellent.

    I do regret that Cherryh never hired Marc Okrand to devise a complete Kifish grammar.

  292. #297 Destiny
    March 20, 2008

    CNN Bulletin: “Riot at Mall of America”

  293. #298 Mollie
    March 20, 2008

    I have to admit, I was totally shocked by that reveal.

    So epic.

  294. #299 Tom Woolf
    March 20, 2008

    Take me next time, please! As a devout atheist, I can’t imagine how much fun it would be to start pointing out the fallacies of the deliriously inept deranged psychopaths….

  295. #300 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    (Mind you, the city I live in is more than a little weird; the local Barnes and Noble was the high point of local crime, including three or four armed robberies until the local cops stated an officer there full-time.)

    note that this is hardly the same thing. there was a demonstrable risk to public safety with what you are describing here.

    it wasn’t the manager of the store deciding to rent a cop in order to keep out people he doesn’t like.

  296. #301 benjdm
    March 20, 2008

    Isn’t the American Atheists conference in Minnesota this weekend? Dawkins was probably in Minnesota for that.

  297. #302 Alan J
    March 20, 2008

    Abso-freaking-lutely hilarious! Mr. Myers, you are made of win.

  298. #303 Haate
    March 20, 2008

    Oh. Their. god. that’s just beautiful. I can’t wait to see what Mr. Dawkins has to say about this.

  299. #304 noncarborundum
    March 20, 2008

    ROFL sooo hard my cat ran away!

    I actually learned ROTFLMAOSTC before I learned ROFL.

    That’s “Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off, Scaring The Cat.”

  300. #305 reed
    March 20, 2008

    silence #225
    I agree, and honestly, it would be a waste of resources to take to court. The usual “we reserve the right to refuse service yada yada” is broad enough that you’d have a hard time proving discrimination even if you wanted to. I don’t even know if the quoted section would apply to a nominally “private” screening.

    However, they know, and we know, that is exactly why they kept him out. The fact that the civil rights act specifically mentions theaters made it too funny not to post. Especially given that the movie is about the alleged discrimination against ID.

    In any case it’s a wonderful own goal on their part. What does it say about a film when the producers refuse to let someone who appeared in the film into a screening ? Not noticing Dawkins is just the icing on the cake.

  301. #306 thadd
    March 20, 2008

    I was all ready to get outraged and upset, now it’s just too funny to do anything but laugh. I can’t believe that PZ is apparently more recognized than Richard Dawkins (at least at the Mall of America).

  302. #307 Diego
    March 20, 2008

    Okay, this story had just made my evening!

  303. #308 EdSG
    March 20, 2008

    Best. Sabot.
    Ever.

  304. #309 Paula Helm Murray
    March 20, 2008

    They probably didn’t put Mr. Dawkins on their list because they probably assumed he wouldn’t be there. Just guessing.

    On the other hand, I wish I could figure out which Alaska fish organization I can complain to because every time I see B-n St–n on the wild Alaska fish commercial it raises my blood pressure. He’s Just a pitchman without any kind of good guidance. But there are several organizations…

  305. #310 Steven Alleyn
    March 20, 2008

    Well… I don’t know how to take that… LOL! Priceless.

  306. #311 Ebonmuse
    March 20, 2008

    This is the greatest thing I’ve read in a long time. The fact that the producers of Expelled, a movie whose sole purpose is to complain about nasty Darwinist censors stifling free inquiry, had guards at the door turning away undesirables, just adds another layer of sweet irony. It’s as if these people don’t recognize the depths of self-parody to which they’re descending.

  307. #312 Bruce Breece FCD
    March 20, 2008

    Congrats and a hearty shiver me timbers PZ. Reading this particular blog entry and the comments has been the most hilarious and edifying experience I’ve had in quite a while. This one will be a keeper for years to come and will burn up the internets for a few days at least.

  308. #313 Henwli
    March 20, 2008

    Good grief. As I read the post the punchline was hidden just below the visible area. There’s only one basic way of replying to something like this:

    10 print “HA”
    20 goto 10

  309. #314 John Squire
    March 20, 2008

    When PZ mentions that everyone “had to sign in and show ID,” is he talking about signing a nondisclosure agreement?

    Will Dawkins be prevented from publicly commenting?

  310. #315 lao tzu
    March 20, 2008

    http://www.expelledthemovie.com/chronicle.php?article=8
    Disinvited to a Screening, a Critic Ends Up in a Faith-Based Crossfire

    … “After Mr. Moore’s review, Mr. Stein commented, “Oh well. This will probably happen a lot more times.”

    The above from the expelledthemovie site tells me this was probably a publicity stunt. The 300 comments above this one tell me it’ll work.

    I don’t think Ben Stein is interested in anything but Ben Stein’s money.

    Hey, it’s still hilarious.

  311. #316 Harmony
    March 20, 2008

    PZ!!! PLEASE READ THIS! Last night, Nightline did a segment on a science museum in Denver that allows groups to come in and give a Biblical tour of the museum! A leader takes groups of children in and tells them how all the evolution science in the museum is wrong! I was amazed that the museum head let them do this, I wouldn’t. After all, they all could go in, just without the unathorized tour. But it sure shows up the EXPELLED people!

  312. #317 rsquared
    March 20, 2008

    PZ must’ve forgotten to get his horns trimmed and tuck his tail into his boxers before going to the mall. I’m still laughing, and living in Dallas within walking distance of a dozen churches doesn’t seem as hopeless as it did an hour ago.

  313. #318 Sili
    March 20, 2008

    How I wish I coulda been there.

    Reminded me of this: http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20050801.html – only funnier.

  314. #319 Jet Black
    March 20, 2008

    I’d like to see a guest blog entry from Richard Dawkins reviewing the film. That would be the height of amusement.

    I can’t believe though that the producers have carefully gone through the lists of names for people to evict. I wonder if there were any others.

  315. #320 Dan
    March 20, 2008

    Please SUE THEM!!!! I know this was funny, but if they get by with kicking you out they can do this to others because of religion, ethnicity or race. Your local civil rights board should be able to help. Raise hell to protect others.

  316. #321 deadman_932
    March 20, 2008

    You should have allowed yourself to be arrested. You were to commit no crime at all. Please don’t show courage on the web only to show cowardice in real life. Is this how you stand up for what you believe?
    Get real, Danny. Getting busted would likely involve trying to shove past security to get arrested for trespass or creating a public disturbance — with your daughter in tow — leaving a guest (Dawkins)in the lurch.

    Try to engage your brain before you post. Being stupid isn’t brave. Being temperate isn’t cowardice.

  317. #322 Danny
    March 20, 2008

    “Well, there’s always criminal trespass and disturbance of the peace. If I were in PZ’s position, I know I’d be iffy about the legality of it. He wouldn’t have accomplished anything by making a fuss and getting arrested, not to mention that this delicious irony wouldn’t have come about if he’d done otherwise.

    Far be it for me to answer for Mr Myers, but being arrested to “stand up for what (he) believe(s)” is not bravery.

    In some cases sheer defiance could be brave, but cool intellect and galvanizing the blogging-troops is standing up for what I suspect Prof. Myers believes.”

    “If indeed legal action needs to be taken (and I agree with Greta Christina that it may not – this could have been a pre-show screening or party and not a public event)we can all rest assured it will be worked out. ”

    Ha ha, I’m sure it indeed ‘will all be worked out’. I’m certain Prof. Myers has stood up for what he believes in. Fact is, he would not need have ‘made a fuss’ – only stand his ground for what is his right to do – go to a movie in the MOA. Even if technically ‘a crime’ it is certainly NOT an actual crime and he should have had the courage to stand his ground on what he believes and potentially been arrested. That would be a far better and greater show of conviction, in real terms, of what we stand for. It’s like the old adage – ‘They came for the Jews/Xians/Zoasters and I did nothing…’ They came for the Atheist and he did nothing.

  318. #323 Tressa
    March 20, 2008

    So, in Christian speak, while Expelled was keeping a Demon out Satan just strolled right in. I love it!

  319. #324 M. Robert Bond
    March 20, 2008

    Hee, I can’t wait until Cuttlefish sees this and does a treatment! This absolutely need to be put into verse, and, and… someone by PZ a beer!

  320. #325 TK Kenyon
    March 20, 2008

    ROTFL so hard I had as asthma attack. After a couple squirts of albuterol, I read it again and dang near had to go to the hospital.

    Oh, my stars, that’s funny.

    I’m so linking to this on my blog: http://rabidatheists.blogspot.com/.

    TK Kenyon, Author of RABID: A Novel and CALLOUS: A Novel
    “A science vs. religion smackdown. Guess who wins?”

  321. #326 Winter Toad
    March 20, 2008

    Well, ERV has an amusing take on this.

  322. #327 Epikt
    March 20, 2008

    sfik

    noncarborundum:

    Excellent.

    I do regret that Cherryh never hired Marc Okrand to devise a complete Kifish grammar.

    So if, after this Great Moment in Creationism, I begin to refer to PZ as Mekt-Hakkikt, at least one other person will understand.

  323. #328 Danny
    March 20, 2008

    “Get real, Danny. Getting busted would likely involve trying to shove past security to get arrested for trespass or creating a public disturbance — with your daughter in tow — leaving a guest (Dawkins)in the lurch.”

    Why would anyone have to shove security personnel? That’s a straw-man argument. He could have simply stood his place in line until removed. No shoving required.

  324. #329 Mark
    March 20, 2008

    I get the impression that this was not an open public screening of the film, considering that you had to sign in and show ID. The theater has every right to deny entry to any individual, unfortunately. This is the same principle that allows casino owners to ban individuals from setting foot in their establishment without due process. They don’t need a reason.

  325. #330 Bachalon
    March 20, 2008

    How the hell are they gonna spin this? “No no, we meant to kick Dawkins/both of them out!”

    Too damn funny.

  326. #331 pradeep
    March 20, 2008

    Bravo. Masterful. Too good to be true.

  327. #332 Dahan
    March 20, 2008

    Snort worthy! Biggest smile I’ve had all day. Fuck those bastards.

  328. #333 DaveH
    March 20, 2008

    Abso-fucking-lutely hilarious. Well done!

  329. #334 Martin
    March 20, 2008

    Will all you dumbasses wailing “You should sue!” and “You should have gotten yourself arrested!” please just STFU! Don’t you GET IT!? PZ didn’t NEED to do those things! He’s already won. Fucking DUH. The Expelled tools have had the biggest epic fail since Travolta signed on to do Battlefield: Earth! Before their screening tonight even ended, the entire planet knows what these dipshits did and the ridicule will never be lived down! People will be looking back on this 10 years from now and laughing. The IDiots handed this one to PZ wrapped in a goddamn ribbon, and he didn’t even have to do anything but show up.

    Why is this hard to grasp?

  330. #335 Danny
    March 20, 2008

    I think it would have been ever better P.R. for him to stand his ground (not shove anyone etc. – so fucking shrill) and be arrested for his beliefs.

  331. #336 rmp
    March 20, 2008

    What Martin said!

  332. #337 gbear
    March 20, 2008

    Well when you’re done laughing about the movie, get your butts OUT of the Mall of America and go somewhere decent. Go get some burgers at The Shamrock on West 7th in St Paul.

  333. #338 paul
    March 20, 2008

    Get arrested for believing that he has the right to see a private screening of a movie, when the law obviously says the opposite. I don’t know, I have a little more respect for PZ’s intelligence than you do Danny.

  334. #339 SteadyEddy
    March 20, 2008

    Ditto Martin #331… well said.

  335. #340 JoshH
    March 20, 2008

    I don’t think there’s anything funny about this. It’s just so absurd I can’t laugh. You know? I mean, there’s an absurdity level that goes so far beyond absurd you can’t help but laugh. But this goes well beyond that, even.

  336. #341 Danny
    March 20, 2008

    “Will all you dumbasses wailing “You should sue!” and “You should have gotten yourself arrested!” please just STFU! Don’t you GET IT!? PZ didn’t NEED to do those things! He’s already won. Fucking DUH. The Expelled tools have had the biggest epic fail since Travolta signed on to do Battlefield: Earth! Before their screening tonight even ended, the entire planet knows what these dipshits did and the ridicule will never be lived down! People will be looking back on this 10 years from now and laughing. The IDiots handed this one to PZ wrapped in a goddamn ribbon, and he didn’t even have to do anything but show up.

    Why is this hard to grasp?”

    Prove it.

  337. #342 Dan
    March 20, 2008

    I wonder if this will be included on Expelled’s atrocious Wikipedia page.

  338. #343 flashbazzzbo
    March 20, 2008

    I dont think this is amusing at all!What policeman threatens a man with arrest for standing in line for a movie?Now,if the man in question is intoxicated,or making threats,or,as someone mentioned earlier, is without shirt or shoes,by all means,this individual could be turned away,with the threat of arrest being very real,if he were to resist.However,it is obvious that the orders were given from people who are not law enforcement types,but merely promoters,or even producers of this film.If so,by what authority do these individuals have the power to command a public servant to order a non-threatening,shirt and shoe wearing person to step out of line,or face arrest?I maintain that just because a certain person may be critical of an idea,that this becomes a matter of civil rights,in that,PZ,being a known critic of ID nonsense ,was singled out merely because THEY knew he was going to rip them up,and rightly so.When did this become a punishible offense?I have,over the years,heard many different critics deride many movies,some of which are among my favorites of all time.Never have I screamed in protest at their criticism,nor did I demand that they be incarcerated.SO,can I,myself, decide when and where(being in no way connected with law enforcement),a certain individual can or cannot be where they want to be,just because i dont agree with them?And what’s more,could I order the local cops to look out for that certain individual,who isnt wanted by the law,and who just DISAGREES with me,and then order him to leave the premises or face arrest,without premise????I’m having a hard time thinking there is not a potential lawsuit here,and if there is not,I am very afraid for those who choose to voice their dissent.

  339. #344 Rey Fox
    March 20, 2008

    Please, someone come in and tell us that we shouldn’t ridicule these people. I DARE you.

    Can’t imagine suing them for it, though. I think the whole incident is too silly, and surely anyone suggesting the lawsuit route has never actually sued anyone and had to go through all the involved rigamrole for months and months. Nope, far better to just laugh. And laugh. And point. And laugh.

    As the good Proinsias Cassidy would say, “WANKERRRRRRS!”

  340. #345 KC
    March 20, 2008

    To PZ: Sir, Bravo. This is too good to be true. I look forward to Dawkins’ take down of this utter bilge.

    @#331 Agreed. No arresting needed. He’d gone and done more damage than he could have possibly by raising a stink – he’d enabled a high profile individual to rip them a new one.

  341. #346 Michael Lonergan
    March 20, 2008

    Holy Crap! I just read this on the BA blog. So, they actually stopped you from attending a frakkin’ movie!? WTF!!?? Can they even do that?

    Geez, I know from reading Phil’s blog that PZ is a Rabble rouser :) but this is beyond belief. It prompts the obvious question: Whatthe hell did you do to deserve this? I mean you must be some bad ass atheist or something?

  342. #347 Martin
    March 20, 2008

    Danny, I’m wondering who’s more clueless about life — you or Ben Stein.

  343. #348 QED
    March 20, 2008

    Sitting here sick as a dog tonight, thinking my long weekend has gone sour, then this. This is better than any medicine I could have hoped for. After I clean the Sprite off my keyboard, I’m going back to bed a happy man. If this isn’t a fever dream, it’s the most hilarious thing I’ve read in weeks!

  344. #349 Sharilyn
    March 20, 2008

    Somewhere between the irony and the hypocrisy I am laughing to hard to breath,(also reaching for my Albuterol) and irritated beyond belief! Just what did the dumb-asses who made this decision THINK was going to happen?
    (I imagine in a backroom – when hearing of the immediate response to this – a Homer Simpsonesque D’oh! escaping from the lips of the brainiac who made the decision to expel PZ)

  345. #350 Dude
    March 20, 2008

    #331

    Exactly!

    PZ doesn’t need to sue, or make a scene, or get himself arrested. Though, you could argue that by staying out of jail tonight he has enabled himself to respond in a way that makes a “scene at the mall” insignificant.

    Also, if it was a private screening, then he’d have been in the wrong to create that “scene” anyway, and would have zero grounds to launch legal action.

    His response was perfect!

    Well done PZ!

  346. #351 rmp
    March 20, 2008

    PZ, please give us a clue when we can expect a review! Tonight? Tomorrow? I’ve got to schedule my sleeping.

  347. #352 Rey Fox
    March 20, 2008

    Also: I’m too too envious of your daughter and your wife for getting to see a movie with Richard Dawkins. I imagine he’s too staid an individual to do MST3K-style commentary, but still, wow. I hope Skatje does a nice blog post about this.

  348. #353 Sharilyn
    March 20, 2008

    #331 BRAVO, Can we have a RAMEN!

  349. #354 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    .However,it is obvious that the orders were given from people who are not law enforcement types,but merely promoters,or even producers of this film.If so,by what authority do these individuals have the power to command a public servant to order a non-threatening,shirt and shoe wearing person to step out of line,or face arrest?

    I completely agree, provided, of course, that there were actually on duty cops involved, and it wasn’t just a bunch of thugs in mall guard uniforms.

    If on duty police WERE involved in this, it would indeed be worth asking if the city supports this use of its personnel.

    this takes nothing away from the gift given to PZ at all; it’s an entirely separate issue from the irony that is religious IDiocy.

  350. #355 Blue Gal
    March 20, 2008

    but see? I knew you were the most wonderful there is, PZ. A bigger rock star of the atheist blogosphere than even Dawkins. He got to see the screening and he is STILL jealous. xo

  351. #356 Gary Bohn
    March 20, 2008

    PZ did precisely the correct thing by drawing attention away from Dawkins and Skatje allowing them to watch the film. Getting arrested would have prevented both Dawkins and Skatje from entering the theater.

    More will come of this the way it played out than if PZ had been arrested.

  352. #357 speedwell
    March 20, 2008

    @Danny: You don’t understand. There were TWO wins here. The first win was how bad it made them look to throw out someone who appeared in that very film as an interviewee, as if (probably because) they didn’t want him to see the mess they made of his interview and because they feared honest and pointed criticism. The second win was when they let in the very last person they wanted to let in, Richard Dawkins.

    The third win will, I think, be when Skatje, a witness to both events, covers this.

  353. #358 Jules
    March 20, 2008

    I converted Sharilyn (#350) to Pastafariansim just an hour ago. It just made sense to her…

  354. #359 John
    March 20, 2008

    Martin -> I guess some people just do not like to see discrimination. We understand that PZ “pOwned” B. Stein/Expelled after being tossed out, but it still pisses some of us off. PZ is most likely being bought multiple drinks at a local tavern, and him and Richard Dawkins are now Best Buddies. Lucky bastard.

    That’s all.

  355. #360 DAC
    March 20, 2008

    Don’t crow too loudly, PZ. Rumor has it Dawkins made an ass of himself after the screening. “Ass Prod” Mark Mathis gave Dawkins a little bit of rope, and Dawkins was quick to start winding it around his own neck. I think you’ll get a bit of egg on your face too out of this, PZ.

  356. #361 Bryan
    March 20, 2008

    Lolz.

    Posted on the front page of the Myspace Atheists and Agnostics group. This story needs to go viral.

  357. #362 ERV
    March 20, 2008

    So… am I the only one sitting here, hitting refresh every ~30 seconds… luving all the comments and waiting for an official Dawkins update?

    Im so not going to sleep tonight, now.

    LOL Im such a loser LOOOOL!

  358. #363 gg
    March 20, 2008

    Kudos, PZ!

    Down here in the Carolinas, the best I can do is get thrown out of an Applebee’s…

  359. #364 Chris
    March 20, 2008

    LOL

    That is just spectacular, and spectacularly funny. I look forward to hearing what Dr. Dawkins has to say about the, *cough*, film.

  360. #365 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    I imagine he’s too staid an individual to do MST3K-style commentary

    I dunno about that, I recall Kristine blogging about that trip to the Galapagos that Dawkins was also on; and he had a few quips along the MST3K type.

    I don’t think he could resist a good poke, but he would do it quietly.

  361. #366 Sastra
    March 20, 2008

    Of course everyone “had to sign in and show ID.” That’s how dangerous being a Christian Creationist in America is. They have enemies all around. They have to be so careful.

    It’s so dangerous being a Christian Creationist in America, they even need police protection. That’s what it’s gotten down to. That’s how bad it is. Atheists try to sneak in and disrupt their worship services. Well, okay, take notes. Or maybe just watch.

    To make them nervous. On purpose.

    Well, okay, it was a movie, and not a worship service. But Christians getting together. Bonding together, in a time of need, to become strong, to support each other. They were kicked out of the public schools, kicked out of the peer review magazines, kicked out of the textbooks. All they have now is the movie theater — and each other.

    And PZ tries to get in. He can’t leave them alone. He can’t just let them be. Dawkins, too. They want to sneer and scoff at Christian Creationists. This is persecution. Like under the Romans, or Jesus on the cross.

    Is there nowhere Christian Creationists can be safe anymore in all of America? Is even the Mall of America a hostile environment? Must they undergo Darwinist eye-rolling and brow-lifting and heavy-sighing in their own movie theater? Is nothing at all sacred to these atheist evolutionary biology monsters?

    PZ and Dawkins owe an apology to Ben Stein and to the producers of Expelled and above all to Christian Creationists in America. That’s what. Thank God for that cop who was the only one brave enough to stand up for Christian Creationists and their America.

    /sarcasm

  362. #367 kwandongbrian
    March 20, 2008

    I only read the first 20 or comments so I hope I am not repeating too many people.
    In Ontario, Canada, the Provincial Police can moonlight in uniform for certain events. I apologise that i don’t know all the details.

    If the guard was in fact a police officer, he may well have been working entirely above board. Restricting someone’s access to Expelled is funny but not criminal if the theatre is privately owned.

  363. #368 The Flying Trilobite
    March 20, 2008

    #319 Danny;
    Again, I am not certain this was a public movie. You do have a point about the slippery slope of discrimination, and I know that if it had been myself, I would have been fuming. If it had been myself and my family, I would have been fuming, and assured the guard I would not cause trouble (in that moment) much like Prof Myers.

    Getting arrested by standing ground is not the only option in cases of discrimination. It does work, and is very effective in many instances, you are correct about that.

    Litigation, getting press involved, and creating a possibly viral media story can also work to shame the people doing the discriminating enough that they will not do it again. Approaching a police officer and the manager of the theatre together in a calm manner could also work.

    With how humorous this has been to all of us, perhaps Prof. Myers is also finding it funny in the moment and gathering his thoughts.

    All of us here can suggest choices of action for PZ, and he can choose to listen or not. However, I’m not there at that mall, I don’t think you are either, so it is hard to say whether there was good reason for PZ to blog instead of demand.

    At the moment I feel we have enough facts to find it funny and be concerned about civil rights. Perhaps we should wait for a few more facts before deciding PZ is committing an act of cowardice (your comment #254)?

  364. #369 DaveH
    March 20, 2008

    This confirms it, god’s an atheist.

  365. #370 Demonic Gophers
    March 20, 2008

    359: “So… am I the only one sitting here, hitting refresh every ~30 seconds… luving all the comments and waiting for an official Dawkins update?”

    Nope.

  366. #371 Berserk
    March 20, 2008

    Dawkins is on Bill Maher tomorrow, hope he mentions this to the American public.

  367. #372 Beth B.
    March 20, 2008

    ERV @ 359: You’re definitely not alone. I didn’t need to get that homework done, anyway :-)

    This post and the subsequent discussion has definitely made my week.

  368. #373 MTran
    March 20, 2008

    Danny said: “Even if technically ‘a crime’ it is certainly NOT an actual crime”

    Anything that is “technically” a crime, is, in fact, a crime (even if it is later found to be unconstitutional, but that is not the case here). You seem to think that if something is malum prohibitum rather than malum in se, it cannot be criminal. You are wrong.

    “he should have had the courage to stand his ground on what he believes and potentially been arrested.”

    So, what great moral or philosophical issue is at stake here? Really, what over-arching ethical principle should over-take a rational response?

    “That would be a far better and greater show of conviction, in real terms, of what we stand for.”

    Who is “we”? Do you mean “you”? And what do you stand for, other than dipshit arrogance? If you ever find yourself arrested, for any reason, explain to your defense attorney that you are just “felony stupid” and wanted to uphold your right to a trial by your peers.

    Sheesh, I went out of my way to antagonize authority in the 60s, and got beat by the cops for it. So it’s not like I don’t know how to stand up for my own convictions, but your statements convict you of brainlessness. I would not want you on my side of any argument.

  369. #374 paul
    March 20, 2008

    ERV- right there with you. *sigh* you just made me aware of my nerdiness. I think i’m gonna go for a little jog, then when I come back I’ll have like 100 more comments to sift through instead of 3 every refresh lol.

  370. #375 Dan
    March 20, 2008

    Don’t crow too loudly, PZ. Rumor has it Dawkins made an ass of himself after the screening. “Ass Prod” Mark Mathis gave Dawkins a little bit of rope, and Dawkins was quick to start winding it around his own neck. I think you’ll get a bit of egg on your face too out of this, PZ.

    Posted by: DAC

    It’s so sad when all you have are rumors and lies.

  371. #376 Gary Bohn
    March 20, 2008

    Sastra;

    I have no idea who you are but from where I sit, you did that entirely too well. It was a bit frightening.

  372. #377 Dave Carlson
    March 20, 2008

    Wow, I think this thread might be in danger of bringing the SB servers down (of course, I just made it worse!).

  373. #378 LionDancer
    March 20, 2008

    What a great story! I’ll probably go see this “movie”, but I think I’ll sit on the back of the chair and look away from the screen.

    PZ for president.

  374. #379 Rob
    March 20, 2008

    An absolute classic!! Thanks for bringing some joy to the holiday weekend.
    By the way, does this mean that in their eyes you are a bigger devil than Richard Dawkin’s himself?

  375. #380 dave
    March 20, 2008

    That is just hilarious, can’t wait to read the full account of the movie from Dawkins perspective.

    p.s. see PZ thats what you get for those devilish good looks, next time keep those horns under a hat and that tail safely kept away. :)

  376. #381 Randy Owens
    March 20, 2008

    Sastra: You will plant a bomb?

    Too late, Stein & Co. already did that. It’s in the projector. They do seem to like that projection, don’t they, after all?

  377. #382 ERV
    March 20, 2008

    PAUL DONT GO!!!

    Kristine just posted a short account!!!!

    I just went from ‘LOL!!’ to *PISSED* in 5 seconds.

  378. #383 ema
    March 20, 2008

    Right! This is so epic I say we start work on the obligatory commemorative statue/monument combo immediately.

  379. #384 john
    March 20, 2008

    PZ’s quote from the past:


    Oh, well. I have two warnings for the creationists.

    One, I will go see this movie, and I will cheer loudly at my 30 seconds or whatever on the screen, and I will certainly disembowel its arguments here and in any print venue that wants me. That’s going to be fun.”

    Ref: http://richarddawkins.net/articleComments,1559,Im-gonna-be-a-MOVIE-STAR,PZ-Myers-Pharyngula,page2

  380. #385 Tom Zychowski
    March 20, 2008

    I do indeed find that amusing.

    I hope Richard makes his way to Winnipeg and visits one of our schools.

    Take care.

  381. #386 Orac
    March 20, 2008

    Hilarious!

    Here’s hoping Richard Dawkins writes a review…

  382. #387 Brachychiton
    March 20, 2008

    I think we’re seeing the IDiots’ spin in Danny’s posts.

  383. #388 Lee Harrison
    March 20, 2008

    DAC @ 357:

    “Don’t crow too loudly, PZ. Rumor has it Dawkins made an ass of himself after the screening. “Ass Prod” Mark Mathis gave Dawkins a little bit of rope, and Dawkins was quick to start winding it around his own neck. I think you’ll get a bit of egg on your face too out of this, PZ.”

    Do you have a source for these rumours?

  384. #389 Mus
    March 20, 2008

    Oh man, this post made my day. That was AWESOME!

  385. #390 Susan
    March 20, 2008

    DANNY! Had PZ gotten himself arrested, he wouldn’t have been able to make this marvelous post now, would he!

  386. #391 Simon G.
    March 20, 2008

    So PZ’s the decoy atheist now?

  387. #392 Jules
    March 20, 2008

    Does DAC (#357) mean “Dumb-Acting Creationist”?

  388. #393 Ichthyic
    March 20, 2008

    Don’t crow too loudly, PZ. Rumor has it Dawkins made an ass of himself after the screening. “Ass Prod” Mark Mathis gave Dawkins a little bit of rope, and Dawkins was quick to start winding it around his own neck. I think you’ll get a bit of egg on your face too out of this, PZ.

    This sounds like a the last gasp of a man about to throw himself off a cliff.

    “You’ll be sorry!”

    I smell napalm.

    Do you have more fear and desperation from the suicide squad arm of the xian death cult for us to feed on?

  389. #394 Matt
    March 20, 2008

    @ #332: I think it would have been ever better P.R. for him to stand his ground (not shove anyone etc. – so fucking shrill) and be arrested for his beliefs.

    Stupid thinking at its finest. I’ll bet you walk into traffic without looking just because you have the right-of-way, don’t you?

    It gains Dr. Myers nothing to be arrested in a situation where laughter is actually a far better weapon.

  390. Blogged, and submitted to Fark as well. This may be… The Greatest Story Ever Told.

  391. #396 Scott
    March 20, 2008

    This is the best damn story I’ve heard all month. All fucking month!

    The ID’ers are so utterly Keystone Kops.

  392. #397 Martin
    March 20, 2008

    John #356: It isn’t so much discrimination as weapons-grade stupidity. Here’s the deal.

    Irony breaker #1: PZ is one of their interviewees, whose appearance they secured under false pretenses, and yet they refused to admit him to the film in which he himself appears, for the obvious reason that they know he’ll get on his massive-trafficked blog and report every error, misrepresentation and falsehood in every frame, in encyclopedic detail.

    Irony breaker #2: In the process of ejecting PZ, they somehow failed to notice that standing right next to him in line was perhaps the most famous scientist, atheist, and evolution advocate currently alive, who’s wrapping up a promotional tour for a book that was a New York Times bestseller for over a year, with cumulative sales of over 1.5 million copies in English. This is reminiscent of the old joke about the actress who was so stupid about how to climb the ladder in Hollywood that she slept with the screenwriter.

    Everything the IDiots did tonight raises the entire concept of stupidity to such previously undreamt heights (or depths, as the case may be), that treating it like it’s some sort of act of discrimination and violation of civil rights to be taken so seriously that only legal recourse will suit, would be beyond overkill. There’s no need to launch an attack on your enemy when they’ve already torpedoed their own submarine.

    There are legitimate situations where discrimination and rights-trampling occur, that should be dealt with appropriately. This isn’t one of them. This is like watching a really stupid person who’s been handed a high explosive with a note saying “DO NOT PRESS THE RED BUTTON” saying to themselves, “Hmm, what’s this red button do?”

    Why get pissed off at this? How was PZ hurt? I wish somebody would do something this stupid to me!

  393. #398 BlueIndependent
    March 20, 2008

    #331 has it nailed. Everyone wanting to pull the Rosa Parks card calm the hell down. The Expelled tools couldn’t have screwed up worse. They managed to identify a *LESS* well-known detractor (no offense PZ), while letting a globally-known and outspoken detractor with several best-selling books and an on-going tour slip by.

    It writes itself.

    Make a scene and get arrested? Are you kidding me? And hand the story BACK to them? Someone in line for the flick would have a picture phone, and they’d run a picture of PZ getting hauled off. The local churches everywhere would be heard cheering for miles this Sunday morning.

    As offensive as the Expelled conspirators are, this is a massively bad punch in the face they gave themselves. This isn’t epic fail, this is Darwin Award material.

  394. #399 MTran
    March 20, 2008

    Does DAC (#357) mean “Dumb-Acting Creationist”?

    I don’t think it’s an act…

  395. #400 Kagehi
    March 20, 2008

    So if, after this Great Moment in Creationism, I begin to refer to PZ as Mekt-Hakkikt, at least one other person will understand.

    Make that two. Just don’t ask me to pronounce it out loud, presuming one could even do so without something like the double set of teeth also seen in the Alien movies, to make all the proper clicks. ;) lol

    Still kind of laughing over this one. Tried to tell my mother what was going on, but the rest of my family either doesn’t care (or in my father’s case chocks it up to, “just what happens every generation”, like nothing has ever progressed or changed since the start of recorded history…), or just doesn’t get it. :(

  396. #401 Marek Eby
    March 20, 2008

    PZ, you’re my hero. I mean for ever and ever!

  397. #402 Hank Fox
    March 20, 2008

    F5, F5, F5 …

    Okay, when comments hit 400, I’m going to bed.

    But this is soooo good.

  398. #403 Heather
    March 20, 2008

    Yup, I submitted this to Fark as well about an hour ago, and it had already been submitted at that point. I, too, am hitting refresh every so often, just waiting to hear what happens when the movie ends and Dawkins et al exit the theatre…

  399. #404 larry gassan
    March 21, 2008

    Amazing! Never underestimate the power of a closed mind to find you in complete darkness!

  400. #405 PalMD
    March 21, 2008

    I just have to add my own “HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!111!one!”

  401. #406 Brian W.
    March 21, 2008

    LLOL (Literally, laughing out loud)

    PZ should have told the security guard “BTW, i’m in the movie” as he was walking away.

  402. #407 Jim C
    March 21, 2008

    It’s great to know that irony is still alive in this world!

  403. #408 Hairy Doctor Professor
    March 21, 2008

    So if, after this Great Moment in Creationism, I begin to refer to PZ as Mekt-Hakkikt, at least one other person will understand.

    Gods rot the Personage. And his fluff.

  404. #409 Lulu
    March 21, 2008

    You’ve been front-paged at Digg. You’re doomed.

  405. #410 Hank Fox
    March 21, 2008

    The story just made the front page of Digg!

    http://digg.com/

  406. #411 Jackson
    March 21, 2008

    Promoted to popular on digg!

  407. #412 John
    March 21, 2008

    The movie should be over by now…
    They are all out drinking and celebrating the Evolutionist victory! PZ will probably have enough material to Blog for months about partying with Richard Dawkins til the Blue Laws were in effect!

    Go PZ!

  408. #413 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Let me offer two reasons why police officers might have stopped PZ Myers and not Dawkins:

    1. PZ Myers is a known member of the PT-mafia.
    2. Richard Dawkins is not.

    Ichthyic wrote

    …seriously, if they are actual police officers, they are not acting legally in any sense I am aware of.

    This is how it works in the real world:

    Police officers are allowed to moonlight as security guards.

    Respectable establishments have a right to decline entry to the likes of PZ Myers.

    The question I have is this: How did you find out about the screening? I assume this is for clergy only. When was Dawkins ordained in the church of the NCSE?

  409. #414 rrt
    March 21, 2008

    It’s been a long week, so I really needed this. Thanks PZ & RD. Of course, I think I laughed myself a hernia…

  410. #415 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “Respectable establishments have a right to decline entry to the likes of PZ Myers.”

    Oh, most definitely. He says mean things about people! And he has a BEARD!

    Wankerrrrrs…

  411. #416 Kiwi
    March 21, 2008

    WTF country is this? I guess this comes as non surprise now that BushCo has shredded the Constitution. How sad.

  412. #417 Sastra
    March 21, 2008

    Kristine wrote:

    (Mathis even accused Dawkins of lying, and Dawkins apologized for being wrong. Can’t win for losing.)

    It will be interesting to know what this refers to. Evidently, after the screening the producer called on Richard Dawkins in the audience to answer questions or something. And then laughed at him (?)

  413. #418 Rev. Barky
    March 21, 2008

    Interesting coincidence is that the first question Dawkins asked the smug producer was “why did you expel PZ from Expelled?

  414. #419 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    From Kristine’s account at least, it doesn’t really sound like the Q&A session was particularly productive.

    Given that when they control the venue, we could be cut off at any time, we need to be really good at presenting our points in ways that don’t allow them their usual weasel tactics. It’s very easy to come up with plausible sounding spin if a critic only gets one question, and the producers get all the last words. It’s unfortunately not very easy to put them on the spot in such a situation, especially in front of a lazy, me-tooing audience.

  415. #420 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    1. PZ Myers is a known member of the PT-mafia.

    whaddya know, I ask for more sounds of desperate mewling from IDiots, and I get Wallace dropping by to fulfill my request.

    hey! The Secret works after all!

    ah, the sweet smell of creationists on fire…

    I do love a good BBQ

    more plz?

    remember, this is for posterity, Wallace.

  416. #421 Randy Owens
    March 21, 2008

    LOL, and now I’m imagining Dawkins in line with you: “These aren’t the evolutionists you’re looking for.” “The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.”

  417. #422 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    “How did you find out about the screening? I assume this is for clergy only. ”

    Uh, it was posted on the internet, WW. And you assume wrong as far as I can tell: this latest round of screenings seem to be a bit more open than previous ones, though obviously not open to potential critical thinking.

  418. #424 john
    March 21, 2008

    I’m kinda tired, and even though a Fundie just stuck his head in the den-of-lions, I’m hitting the sack.

    Ya’ll have fun with Wallace-

    [Insert - William Wallace ass-whooping Here]

  419. #425 Rev. Barky
    March 21, 2008

    Dawkins was extremely brave speaking up in the middle of a very unfriendly audience. Fortunately there were a few of us to support him but I can’t imagine how he could have kept quiet after the the way they butchered his interview. The air was thick with smug.

  420. #426 Don Smith, FCD
    March 21, 2008

    “Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?”

    Y…hahahaha…Ye….hahahahahaha…ye…hahahahahaha..ss…hahahahaha

  421. #427 c
    March 21, 2008

    Now Ben Stein has something in common with the Scientologists — shadowy spies keeping tabs on a list of designated enemies.

    …or the Nixon administration.

  422. #428 Sastra
    March 21, 2008

    “PT-Mafia?” What?

  423. #429 ERV
    March 21, 2008

    Genie is commenting over at digg!!

    Okay, seriously, I has to go to sleep. Must sleep! AAAAAAARG!

  424. #430 Gary Bohn
    March 21, 2008

    @382

    Do you have information that Dawkins is coming to Western Canada?

    It would be interesting if he did.

  425. #431 Hank Fox
    March 21, 2008

    Someone should definitely start a list of blogs covering/commenting on this story. It’s gonna be big.

    I’d be interested in the ID spin on it too.

  426. #432 WikipediaIsControlledByGodlessLiberals
    March 21, 2008

    If you missed the film, it was already covered by NPR a few years ago. You can listen to it here.

  427. #433 Lois Willick
    March 21, 2008

    I don’t get it. What movie called “Expelled”. I never heard of it, and I cannot believe there were guards posted to stop people from going into a movie. This sounds dumb!
    What am I supposed to be laughing at?

  428. #434 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    Here’s one of the RSVP pages. No “member of the clergy” checkbox I can see. It looks like they relied on active screening against a list of undesirables this time around rather than limiting it only to hand-picked folks.

  429. #435 ExitB
    March 21, 2008

    God help me! I can’t stop laughing!

  430. #436 Jeff
    March 21, 2008

    This is too funny…but the sad part is that when I get to school tomorrow (I teach HS physics and chem) I won’t be able to share this with my fellow biology teachers. They won’t know who you, or Richard Dawkins, are and this is one of those things that you just can’t explain to people. You either get it or you don’t.

    Still…funniest thing I’ve read all week.

  431. #437 Jason
    March 21, 2008

    Not much to say that hasn’t already been said, but I live in Japan and I’ve been having a slow day today. I was very happy to read this. When I see ID proponents trip over themselves, it makes my day. Thank you…:)

  432. #438 Ralph
    March 21, 2008

    BWAHAHAHA How the hell did the police know who you were? Did they distribute PZ photographs? Did they put out an APB on PZ? This is outrageous!

  433. #439 queg
    March 21, 2008

    I saw Richard Dawkins just last night at UT in Austin, TX. Someone asked him about the movie, and he related that the producers lied to him about the tone, as well as the subject matter of the movie. He was pretty irate when discussing it. He basically said it’s a big bag of bullshit and don’t see it, even though he is in the movie.

  434. #440 Thuraash
    March 21, 2008

    *Reads post*
    *Glances at copy of The Ancestor’s Tale sitting around 3 inches from this computer*
    *…*
    http://www.hybridgraphite.co.uk/OIFY/roflcopter.gif

    That was awesome! Congratulations, Professor. You win at irony.

  435. #441 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    “Dawkins was extremely brave speaking up in the middle of a very unfriendly audience”

    So what did he say exactly?

    I still want to know exactly what he was saying in the “I’m hostile to a rival doctrine” quote: what the rest of the quote was.

  436. #442 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    This is how it works in the real world:

    Posted by: William Wallace

    Want to know what is funny? Well, not as amusing as tonight’s big story but still, there are laughs to be had. A person who spends time pondering unreal things (Just visit his blog.) telling a bunch of materialists what is real.

    Little Willy won’t go home!

  437. #443 Ron Sullivan
    March 21, 2008

    #324:

    So if, after this Great Moment in Creationism, I begin to refer to PZ as Mekt-Hakkikt, at least one other person will understand.

    Two.

  438. #444 opusjones
    March 21, 2008

    FAITH IS TRULY BLIND

  439. #445 Nathan
    March 21, 2008

    You’ve got to be kidding me.

  440. #446 Matt
    March 21, 2008

    @ #428: I’d be interested in the ID spin on it too.

    I imagine it will involve Dr. Myers being there to cause trouble (that rabble-rouser!) and being lawfully and righteously removed from the premises. And Dawkins being held up to ridicule in the rigorously-controlled Q&A session afterwards.

    Which was all part of their Master Plan!

    You know, the usual bullshit. The real marvel is that the IDiots can walk and breathe at the same time.

  441. #447 Iroc
    March 21, 2008

    #1 post on Digg right now.

  442. #448 BennyP
    March 21, 2008

    Right on!
    Please tell me you’re going to sue the theater, producer and police department.

  443. #449 G Felis
    March 21, 2008

    @ Sastra (#425): “PT-mafia” presumably refers to Panda’s Thumb, those infamous and scurrilous villains who gather together to criticize honest creationists like William Wallace and make the baby Jesus cry.

  444. #450 Doug Brenner
    March 21, 2008

    Lucky they didn’t give you contradictory orders, knock you down from behind, tase you, and crush your eyeglasses beneath their jackboots. This is Minnesota, you know, and if you’d been trying to do something truly heinous, such as legally bike home from the airport, your luck might have been very different.

  445. #451 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    Right on!
    Please tell me you’re going to sue the theater, producer and police department.

    Posted by: BennyP

    Why sue? The story is great enough.

  446. #452 fyreflye
    March 21, 2008

    This story has now shown up on Dawkins’ own web site http://richarddawkins.net/ top right.

  447. #453 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    DAC (many posts ago) mentioned “egg on face”.

    Let me be the first to wager that the creobots will claim this whole thing was planned from the start.

    -they let Dawkins in on purpose, and gave PZ the boot because they knew he would blog about it.

    such crafty geniuses!

    I’d believe it, if they didn’t have a perfect track record of shooting themselves in the head.

    still, I’d be willing to bet that’s what the spin will be tomorrow.

  448. #454 Danny
    March 21, 2008

    Speedwell –

    “@Danny: You don’t understand. There were TWO wins here. The first win was how bad it made them look to throw out someone who appeared in that very film as an interviewee, as if (probably because) they didn’t want him to see the mess they made of his interview and because they feared honest and pointed criticism. The second win was when they let in the very last person they wanted to let in, Richard Dawkins.

    The third win will, I think, be when Skatje, a witness to both events, covers this.”

    ‘Made them look bad’? did it really? How? In any meaningful way? Will this be broadcast over international television, such as are the christians?

    The Flying Trylobite –

    “#319 Danny;
    Again, I am not certain this was a public movie. You do have a point about the slippery slope of discrimination, and I know that if it had been myself, I would have been fuming. If it had been myself and my family, I would have been fuming, and assured the guard I would not cause trouble (in that moment) much like Prof Myers.

    Getting arrested by standing ground is not the only option in cases of discrimination. It does work, and is very effective in many instances, you are correct about that.

    Litigation, getting press involved, and creating a possibly viral media story can also work to shame the people doing the discriminating enough that they will not do it again. Approaching a police officer and the manager of the theatre together in a calm manner could also work.

    With how humorous this has been to all of us, perhaps Prof. Myers is also finding it funny in the moment and gathering his thoughts.

    All of us here can suggest choices of action for PZ, and he can choose to listen or not. However, I’m not there at that mall, I don’t think you are either, so it is hard to say whether there was good reason for PZ to blog instead of demand.

    At the moment I feel we have enough facts to find it funny and be concerned about civil rights. Perhaps we should wait for a few more facts before deciding PZ is committing an act of cowardice (your comment #254)? ”

    You have a point, certainly. I should not have called Dr. Myers a ‘coward’, perhaps too extreme a term. Or not. These people that we are offending, at least in my opinion, are not deserving of such respect that a topic in their movie should walk out, without question – while being molested for their *beliefs*. It’s like arguing that christians should be excluded based on thier beliefs when shown ‘A god Who Wasn’t There’.

    MTran –

    “Danny said: “Even if technically ‘a crime’ it is certainly NOT an actual crime”

    Anything that is “technically” a crime, is, in fact, a crime (even if it is later found to be unconstitutional, but that is not the case here). You seem to think that if something is malum prohibitum rather than malum in se, it cannot be criminal. You are wrong.

    “he should have had the courage to stand his ground on what he believes and potentially been arrested.”

    So, what great moral or philosophical issue is at stake here? Really, what over-arching ethical principle should over-take a rational response?

    “That would be a far better and greater show of conviction, in real terms, of what we stand for.”

    Who is “we”? Do you mean “you”? And what do you stand for, other than dipshit arrogance? If you ever find yourself arrested, for any reason, explain to your defense attorney that you are just “felony stupid” and wanted to uphold your right to a trial by your peers.

    Sheesh, I went out of my way to antagonize authority in the 60s, and got beat by the cops for it. So it’s not like I don’t know how to stand up for my own convictions, but your statements convict you of brainlessness. I would not want you on my side of any argument.”

    “Anything that is “technically” a crime, is, in fact, a crime” If that were actually true, we would never have been able to found the United States of America. You went ‘out of your way’ to antagonize authority? How? why? So you got beaten for it, does that make it any less correct? Based on your statement, it is like you don’t know how to stand up for own convictions. By the way, I served two tours in the Persian Gulf on the USS AMERICA in Desert Storm and the following patrols so as far as I’m concerned I have some license in discussing these matters. Thank you.

    Susan (cutie!)

    “DANNY! Had PZ gotten himself arrested, he wouldn’t have been able to make this marvelous post now, would he!”

    Sure he would, just a matter of a bit of time and effort.

  449. #455 paul
    March 21, 2008

    this is truly excellent. thanks for the best laugh of the day.

  450. #456 waldteufel
    March 21, 2008

    Unbelievable! The DI frauds couldn’t find their collective asses with all their hands and a movie theater full of flashlights.

    Incompetence and Stupidity, thy name is Discovery Institute.

  451. #457 RBH
    March 21, 2008

    Genie Scott commented in the Digg thread.

  452. #458 Marla Shane McCain
    March 21, 2008

    Is PZ also in the film like Dawkins? Is there a possibility that since Dawkins was tricked into being in this film, or for other reasons, he was allowed to enter while PZ was not? I mean, everybody (who wants to) knows Dawkins is in town to do the American Atheist Conference. His “team” of personalities was standing in line – another give-away. They were checking I.D. What did Dawkin’s do when it came his turn?
    I am skeptical about this being such a big oversight on their part. They must know that if they HAD booted someone like Dawkin’s – then that certainly would become a big deal, unlike PZ who walked away.
    I hope I’m just paranoid.

  453. #459 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Is PZ also in the film like Dawkins?

    exactly like Dawkins, in fact.

  454. #460 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    I have not watched the preview. I do have to admit that if PZ Myers is in the film, and the film was not restricted to members of the clergy, PZ should have been allowed to enter, *if* he registered here: http://rsvp.getexpelled.com/events/events/rsvp/202

  455. #461 siddharth
    March 21, 2008

    @ Danny: ‘Made them look bad’? did it really? How? In any meaningful way? Will this be broadcast over international television, such as are the christians?

    Lemme tell you this. Around 100 students in a city in India are ROLFing at the stupidity of the IDiots. And this news is spreading like fire. What an epic fail.

  456. #462 shiftlessbum
    March 21, 2008

    Holy crap! Am I glad I logged on tonight. I cannot wait to hear Dawkins on this. Way to go PZ!

  457. #463 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    Folks, it’s very unlikely that there was a crime here. Rented private spaces can discriminate, especially based on viewpoints. The story here is about hypocrisy, not illegality.

  458. #464 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    PZ should have been allowed to enter

    why, how gracious of you.

    LOL

    c’mon, where’s all that vitriol you save up for the “PT-Mafia”?

    remember, the world is watching. It’s your chance to shine as a representative of creobots everywhere!

  459. #465 Robert Frazer
    March 21, 2008

    Why is this thread in a “Creationism” category?

    The author is barred from a cinema, but his British companion isn’t recognised. This is natural enough, seeing as this is an American cinema in question, and I doubt that many Britons would recognise a given academic on the street either. Alternatively, they let Dawkins in because they know that he’ll at least save his interminable bellyaching for his next book instead of wasting bandwidth with self-congratulatory blogs :-\

    Assuming that it was an actual liveried policeman who expelled the article author, what this event raises is questions about the legality of that practice – but it doesn’t say anything at all about Creationism or Atheism, except by vague association.

  460. #466 Trent1492
    March 21, 2008

    Voltaire once wrote:

    “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: “O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.” And God granted it.

    …and how.

  461. #467 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Genie Scott points out what will be the NCSE response the the “expelled” trash:

    http://www.expelledexposed.com/

  462. #468 Reed A. Cartwright
    March 21, 2008

    @#457 I believe that PZ did rsvp under his own name with two family members and a guest.

  463. #469 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Why is this thread in a “Creationism” category?

    assuming you aren’t completely oblivious, “Expelled” is a fictional account of how “Intelligent Design” (nothing but repackaged creationism) is being “repressed” and “expelled” from educational institutions.

    It’s all BS, of course, but it IS the latest gasp of the creationists as they continue to drown in all other venues.

  464. #470 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Bad wrote:
    Folks, it’s very unlikely that there was a crime here. Rented private spaces can discriminate, especially based on viewpoints. The story here is about hypocrisy, not illegality.

    Exactly right.

    Ichthyic wrote:
    remember, the world is watching.

    In that case, please do take a listen to NPR’s unretracted Intelligent Design and Academic Freedom by Barbara Hagerty, while noting this NPR piece has not been redacted.

  465. #471 Scott Hatfield, OM
    March 21, 2008

    Congrats, PZ. By logging in at the Apple Store, you managed to beat Kristine, who told me earlier today that something big was in the works, by a good half hour. She has pics, though!

    As I said on her site, this was both hilarious and historic. I hope I hope the dreaded Dr. D points out that he was interviewed under false pretenses. God, I wish I could be a fly on that wall right now. Please tell me some of this is on video.

    (fan boyish) You guys rock.

  466. #472 Sue Larries
    March 21, 2008

    Matt claims “The real marvel is that the IDiots can walk and breathe at the same time.”

    I have met few Creationists, but those I have spent time with most certainly can NOT walk and breathe at the same time, but rather walk, then breathe, then walk again.

  467. #473 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Bad wrote:
    Folks, it’s very unlikely that there was a crime here. Rented private spaces can discriminate, especially based on viewpoints. The story here is about hypocrisy, not illegality.

    Exactly right.

    Ichthyic wrote:
    remember, the world is watching.

    In that case, please do take a listen to NPR’s unretracted Intelligent Design and Academic Freedom by Barbara Hagerty, while noting this NPR piece has not been redacted.

  468. #474 Slaughter
    March 21, 2008

    It might have been funny for PZ to stand there like a 4-year-old and ask why about everything.
    “Sir, you can’t see the movie.”
    “Why?”
    “Because this man says so.”
    “Why?”
    “He makes the rules here.”
    “Why?”
    And so on and so on.
    Since it’s at the 4-year-old level, even IDiots could understand it.

  469. #475 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “Alternatively, they let Dawkins in because they know that he’ll at least save his interminable bellyaching for his next book instead of wasting bandwidth with self-congratulatory blogs :-\”

    OHH the BANDWIDTH! Won’t someone PLEASE think of the bandwidth?!

    “but it doesn’t say anything at all about Creationism or Atheism, except by vague association.”

    I think it speaks volumes about what wankers they are, but YMMV.

  470. #476 Ralph
    March 21, 2008

    “…what this event raises is questions about the legality of that practice – but it doesn’t say anything at all about Creationism or Atheism, except by vague association.”

    -This event certainly says something about the film’s producers, viz. that they’re cowards and for some strange reason, terrified of the harmless, cuddly man known as PZ Myers.

  471. #477 Susie
    March 21, 2008

    OMFG.
    It has been a long time since I laughed that hard….. hahahaha that’s classic!!!

  472. #478 Alicia Morgan
    March 21, 2008

    It’s perfect, that’s all – simply perfect in its symmetry.

  473. #479 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    This might have been an excellent opportunity for civil disobedience. Just imagine the negative publicity from arresting someone conned into participating in their propaganda film. You could have then taken a cue from the disingenuous and played the role of martyr for all its worth.

    Enlisting the police to try to evict you from the premises when you did not intend to challenge their stupid ban–now that’s really over the top. This is still the United States of America until they pry the Constitution and Bill of Rights from our cold dead fingers! I’m glad you can laugh about this, but for many of us, this is where we would draw the line, especially given the sacrifices that have been made for these rights.

    Makes you kind of wonder if they will ever really release this in April in theaters (ignoring for a moment that some fundies will not go into a theater). They obviously don’t want too much scrutiny until they have whipped the true believer into a frenzy of anger.

    All of this just emphasizes that the individuals behind this film have been more influenced by Machiavelli than their professed master. Not that they are as smart as Machiavelli (evidenced by Dawkin’s success).

  474. #480 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Exactly right.

    glad to see you admitting your own hypocrisy, after only the slightest nudge.

    while noting this NPR piece has not been redacted.

    implying they have redacted others?

    do tell!

  475. #481 abeja
    March 21, 2008

    Coming out of semi-lurkdom to say way to go P.Z.! Can’t wait for the update.

  476. #482 jimmiraybob
    March 21, 2008

    Well Played! Well Played indeed. I will raise a pint of Guinness in your general direction(s) at first chance.

  477. #483 Carl Hutter
    March 21, 2008

    You sound like the coolest professor ever.

  478. #484 Sue Larries
    March 21, 2008

    BTW, this is a fine example of a general principle: Creationists play to win, especially when the game is Russian Roulette: Solitaire.

  479. #485 Protobiochemist
    March 21, 2008

    I will come out of lurking just to say this:

    PZ: YOU WIN BEN STEIN’S MONEY!!!!!!!!

    Funniest Blog Post EVER!

    PBC.

  480. #486 October Mermaid
    March 21, 2008

    This shouldn’t be much of a surprise to anyone. The producers of this movie are just, I mean, wow. They’re stupid as hell. I feel embarassed for them. Heck, I feel embarassed for their families. Can you imagine being related to that sort of thing? Obviously someone took a piss in that gene pool.

  481. #487 Matt
    March 21, 2008

    @ #461: but it doesn’t say anything at all about Creationism or Atheism, except by vague association.

    Neither does your comment. But I’m glad you deigned to join us anyways, Bobby. Glad you came all this way (and wasted a little more precious bandwidth) to complain about a possibly-misused (but not really) label. Well done, sir.

  482. #489 uknesvuinng
    March 21, 2008

    What will the world do without irony meters now that they’ve all been overloaded?

  483. #490 John Pieret
    March 21, 2008

    I suppose you might as well have a look at this. It’s a report of the incident by one of the Kool-Aid drinkers … er, invited guests … at the screening. According to this person, our mild-mannered professor was “hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in.”

    But he also thought:

    Right away, let me just say that this is the Best Documentary of 2008…if it will get played. The basic premise of the movie is that Intelligent Design should be allowed equal footing as a teachable theory within academia. This movie is not an apology for Creation; pains are taken to distinguish Creation from Intelligent Design. This is also not a movie that bashes Evolutional Theory, although many rational arguments are brought up as to the validity of Evolutionary thought as well as the long-term consequences of an Evolutionary Worldview.

    … so judge his objectivity accordingly.

  484. #491 Harmony
    March 21, 2008

    PZ, TRY TO GO TO ANOTHER SCREENING IN A DISGUISE!!!

  485. #492 Ferrous Patella
    March 21, 2008

    I never ever have typed this on the web before but yes, literally:

    LOL

  486. #493 MTran
    March 21, 2008

    Danny continues to delude himself into believing he can think cogently and says: “Anything that is “technically” a crime, is, in fact, a crime” If that were actually true, we would never have been able to found the United States of America.

    WTF? The colonists who initiated and fought in the American Revolution were criminals under British law. They were traitors to the crown. The US was able to continue as a separate sovereign entity because it won the war, not because the actions leading to it were not criminal under British law. Have you heard about “hanging together or all hanging separately?”

    Danny then tries to make sense, but cannot, saying: “Based on your statement, it is like you don’t know how to stand up for own convictions.”

    Are you really an idiot or did you just have an idiot do your writing? You clearly don’t understand what a “conviction” is and the difference between deliberately standing up for one’s own moral convictions and insisting that others act like idiots in order to satisfy your own dimwitted world view.

    Danny claims: “I served two tours in the Persian Gulf on the USS AMERICA in Desert Storm and the following patrols so as far as I’m concerned I have some license in discussing these matters.”

    Why do you think that? What sort of license? Serving as part of an authorized military in support of a governmental action is the opposite of challenging that same authority in the capacity of a mere individual citizen.

    You may have been exposed to some brain damaging chemicals or head trauma during your tour of duty. Try to get some help before the damage becomes untreatable. Though given the way the VA “treats” veteran’s physical and mental health problems, you may be better off in a private facility.

    Finally Danny said: “Thank you.”

    Hey, don’t mention it.

  487. #494 Cuttlefish, OM
    March 21, 2008

    @321–

    When reinventing history
    It’s best to keep the mystery;
    If witnesses are noticed, it is best to take them out.
    And although the act is telling,
    You’d be better off expelling
    Doctor Myers, if you see him, just because the man’s a lout.
    You see, PZ is a witness
    To the movie’s lack of fitness–
    He is one selection pressure that would render it extinct.
    So, with “WANTED!” posters printed,
    To the cinema they sprinted,
    And they passed around the mugshots just as soon as they were inked.
    The policemen, at the ready,
    Kept the ticket-takers steady
    While they watched with eyes like eagles for the devil in disguise.
    Yes! They spotted Dr. Myers,
    Looking just like in their fliers!
    The policemen, quite correctly, gave the doctor a surprise.
    When they said he’d be arrested
    If their actions he protested,
    He complied at once (that should have raised suspicions, don’t you think?)
    Once his actions had been thwarted
    And he left the line, escorted,
    Looking back to his companion in the line, he gave a wink….
    So this little movie trip is
    Like a Trojan Eohippus
    That delivered Richard Dawkins deep within the fortress walls
    I can’t wait to read the story
    Of the battle and the glory–
    Cos the trailer to this feature shows the hero’s got some balls!

    http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2008/03/trojan-myers.html

  488. #495 Danny
    March 21, 2008

    Jeh –

    “This might have been an excellent opportunity for civil disobedience. Just imagine the negative publicity from arresting someone conned into participating in their propaganda film. You could have then taken a cue from the disingenuous and played the role of martyr for all its worth.

    Enlisting the police to try to evict you from the premises when you did not intend to challenge their stupid ban–now that’s really over the top. This is still the United States of America until they pry the Constitution and Bill of Rights from our cold dead fingers! I’m glad you can laugh about this, but for many of us, this is where we would draw the line, especially given the sacrifices that have been made for these rights.

    Makes you kind of wonder if they will ever really release this in April in theaters (ignoring for a moment that some fundies will not go into a theater). They obviously don’t want too much scrutiny until they have whipped the true believer into a frenzy of anger.

    All of this just emphasizes that the individuals behind this film have been more influenced by Machiavelli than their professed master. Not that they are as smart as Machiavelli (evidenced by Dawkin’s success).”

    Exactly my point. Thank you.

  489. #496 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    hey, wallace-

    just for you, I give you the real skinny on whether this was a “private” screening or not, from someone who was there:

    Kristine:

    “Jared,” an employee at the theatre, said that it was because “The producer said that he doesn’t want you here. You don’t have a ticket, and this is a private screening.” Excuse me, this was a private screening that threw itself at you via a link from a website begging “please come and support this film, fill the theatres, wah, wah, we’re victims, please come to our party, you’ll love it, we’re rebels, we’re going to be very naughty!” This was a private screening that was asking for it! Having a showing during an atheist convention? Hello, producer Mark Mathis? Any intelligence allowed?

    I wasn’t invited! I didn’t have to have a ticket! I received an e-mail that stated, “No ticket required.” They were glad to have me, because I’m going to a Catholic grad school, and I have a little Catholic grad school pink notebook in which I took copious notes. Glad to have me, that is, until I started asking about a little film named “Crossroads” (the original title of “Expelled). (Actually, I am willing to accept that Crossroads was a working title. Yes, I do know something about how films are made, Mr. Mathis. I also know something about how they are marketed. CLASSIC FAIL tonight.)

    damn, you guys never fail at an opportunity to shoot yourselves in the head.

    btw, since Scott’s link to the pictures doesn’t seem to work, here it is again:

    http://amused-muse.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-from-expelled.html

  490. #497 aiabx
    March 21, 2008

    Oh-my-lack-of-god!
    Absolutely amazing!

  491. #498 Tom Farrell
    March 21, 2008

    So, some thoughts.

    You should contact the theater – politely, and from a distance – to ask *why* you were refused entry and ordered off the premises. (By letter is best, because it would lead them to reply in writing.) If the answer is something like “we just don’t like your hairdo”, that’s the end of it. If however the answer is because you’re a famous athiest, if they were selling tickets to the showing, then you have grounds for a civil rights complaint against the theater for discrimination on the basis of religion; I’m pretty certain it would be illegal in all 50 states to refuse to serve you to a showing of a movie for which tickets are being sold to the public on the basis of your religion (or lack thereof). And it would make them look REALLY bad to be “discriminating on the basis of religion”.

  492. #499 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Enlisting the police to try to evict you from the premises when you did not intend to challenge their stupid ban–now that’s really over the top.

    we’re still not clear that actual, on duty, police were involved.

    that caveat said, I agree 100%

  493. #500 Gary Bohn
    March 21, 2008

    Ferrous, you’ve never ROTFLMAO or LOL at t.o.?

    Wow.

  494. #501 Azkyroth
    March 21, 2008

    Will someone please “expel” Danny and the other concern trolls? They’re undermining perfect hilarity with their machosturbation.

    Posted about here and I must say this was a lovely anniversary present. :3

  495. #502 Calladus
    March 21, 2008

    I can’t wait to hear how the fundies spin this to not be their fault. Oh my!

    Oh, and I nominate cuttlefish to write any non-holy Atheist texts!

  496. #503 Bachalon
    March 21, 2008

    Cuttlefish, that was magnificent; I had a smile the whole time while reading that to one of my room mates.

  497. #504 Zeno
    March 21, 2008

    I can’t recall. Has any previous Pharyngula post hit the 500 mark in comments before? Certainly not in one short evening.

    We have been virtually present at a historic event.

  498. #505 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    … so judge his objectivity accordingly.

    how do we judge:

    This is also not a movie that bashes Evolutional Theory

    other than what it is?

  499. #506 Dr. Drang
    March 21, 2008

    Most evil-doers get put on a watch list. PZ gets put on a do not watch list.

  500. #507 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    I can’t recall. Has any previous Pharyngula post hit the 500 mark in comments before? Certainly not in one short evening.

    oh yes, many times.

    not this fast, maybe.

  501. #508 October Mermaid
    March 21, 2008

    #489 We don’t say this nearly enough, but.. but.. we love you, Cuttlefish. We honestly love you.

  502. #509 Hemant Mehta
    March 21, 2008

    As hilarious as this story is, I think it just goes to show the power that bloggers can have, even over a 1,000,000+ copy bestselling author!

  503. #510 Chris
    March 21, 2008

    That is hilarious and amazing. I keep reading this post over and over to keep appreciating how great that is.

  504. #511 Scott Hatfield, OM
    March 21, 2008

    btw, since Scott’s link to the pictures doesn’t seem to work, here it is again:

    That’s what I like about this place. Quality control. Thanks, Icthyic!

  505. #512 Heather
    March 21, 2008

    Cuttlefish, that is beautiful! Trojan Eohippus – brilliant!

  506. #513 Scifi Saint
    March 21, 2008

    H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T! That’s funny. Great read.

  507. #514 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    Re: Enlisting the police to try to evict you from the premises when you did not intend to challenge their stupid ban–now that’s really over the top.

    we’re still not clear that actual, on duty, police were involved.

    Granted, maybe it was one of those fake “policeman,” sometimes hard to tell with the costumes the security people wear.

    I’ll rephrase my statement: “Enlisting some thug to try to evict you from the premises when you did not intend to challenge their stupid ban–now that’s really over the top.”

    I’m sure they would have no trouble getting one of their own to play this role. Some of them would have willingly taken PZ outside and given him a wicked beating as well, if they thought they could get away with it.

  508. #515 Sue Larries
    March 21, 2008

    Re: #485

    Note that his review allows no comments. Cowardly fuckwit.

    In other news, water is wet to humans in ordinary baths.

  509. #516 M
    March 21, 2008

    Wow. Stupid doesn’t even begin to describe these people.

  510. #517 Axel Muller
    March 21, 2008

    Quite funny indeed!
    510 comments, that doesn’t happen that often either,
    A.

  511. #518 DaveX
    March 21, 2008

    Well played, PZ!!

  512. #519 ExitB
    March 21, 2008

    I sent a note and link to Al Franken’s Minnesota senate campaign email. I hope he gets it soon. He interviewed Prof. Dawkins once on his Air America radio show. I’d like to hear a comment from him. Hmmm… maybe I should send it to Sen. Coleman too just to be fair.

  513. #520 Tom
    March 21, 2008

    This is the funniest thing I’ve seen all day. They are so incredibly stupid to be even trying to control who sees this junk. Assuming it is junk, no one until tonight with any credibility has seen it…

    :-))) and they let RD walk right in! Ha ha ha ha! ( Thought I was done giggling… I guess not!)

  514. #521 SonOfLiberty
    March 21, 2008

    Proof #947 that Theists are idiots:

    They expel PZ Myers at the Expelled premiere, yet let Richard Dawkins slide right on by.

    No wonder why they think the world is 6000 years old :)

  515. #522 Corey
    March 21, 2008

    Thanks for sharing that … it’s so absurd and hilarious that it makes me dizzy.

    With all due respect, that’s like politely kicking a nun out of an anti-catholic movie showing BUT LETTING THE POPE IN!

    I hope Richard enjoyed the movie. Or at least the popcorn.

  516. #523 Dr Benway
    March 21, 2008

    O hai!

    PZ n Dawkins can haz cookies uf teh Ceiling Cat, who NO WANTS bad moovie.

    kthxbai!

  517. #524 MikeM
    March 21, 2008

    To #503, I would add.

    We’re not trying to make you feel uncomfortable.
    We’re not trying to make you anything at all.
    But these feeling doesn’t come along every day.

  518. #525 CalGeorge
    March 21, 2008

    Time for Ben Stein to hit that blackboard again:

    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.
    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.
    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.
    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.
    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.
    I will not expel PZ from Expelled.

  519. #526 Sue Larries
    March 21, 2008

    Dear M (#511),

    I disagree, since I believe “stupid” IS where one should “begin to describe these people” although I would stop there for only a small, misinformed – big-ass lied to, actually – fraction of them.

  520. #527 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    I’m sure they would have no trouble getting one of their own to play this role. Some of them would have willingly taken PZ outside and given him a wicked beating as well, if they thought they could get away with it.

    ahh, memories.

    :p

  521. #528 zer0
    March 21, 2008

    Way to go PZ! Way to have a more recognizable face than one of the “horsemen”!

  522. #529 Chris
    March 21, 2008

    I was searching to see if Richard Dawkins had posted any sort of reply yet, and I stumbled upon an account by one of the attendees of that screening (http://lookingcloser.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/richard-dawkins-crashes-the-party-at-a-screening-of-expelled/). While he admits that “[Expelled] is the Best Documentary of 2008,” he accounts:

    “I just happened to be standing directly in line behind Dawkins’ academic colleague. Management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in. Management then approached the man, asked him if he had a ticket, and when he confirmed that he didn’t, they then escorted him off the premises. Nowhere was one of the film’s producers to be found, and the man certainly didn’t identify himself.”

    Is this true? Still, kudos to you, Dr. Myers.

  523. #530 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Is this true?

    would you take a serious the word of someone who called ‘expelled’ the “best documentary of 2008″?

    well?

  524. #531 Joshua Arnold
    March 21, 2008

    @524

    It’s not what PZ himself said. And if he didn’t have a ticket, how’d his family get in?

  525. #532 dave
    March 21, 2008

    so, i looked up “irony” in the OED, and found a link to this blog post.

  526. #533 Danny
    March 21, 2008

    ********************************************
    MTran -

    Danny continues to delude himself into believing he can think cogently and says: “Anything that is “technically” a crime, is, in fact, a crime” If that were actually true, we would never have been able to found the United States of America.

    WTF? The colonists who initiated and fought in the American Revolution were criminals under British law. They were traitors to the crown. The US was able to continue as a separate sovereign entity because it won the war, not because the actions leading to it were not criminal under British law. Have you heard about “hanging together or all hanging separately?”

    Danny then tries to make sense, but cannot, saying: “Based on your statement, it is like you don’t know how to stand up for own convictions.”

    Are you really an idiot or did you just have an idiot do your writing? You clearly don’t understand what a “conviction” is and the difference between deliberately standing up for one’s own moral convictions and insisting that others act like idiots in order to satisfy your own dimwitted world view.

    Danny claims: “I served two tours in the Persian Gulf on the USS AMERICA in Desert Storm and the following patrols so as far as I’m concerned I have some license in discussing these matters.”

    Why do you think that? What sort of license? Serving as part of an authorized military in support of a governmental action is the opposite of challenging that same authority in the capacity of a mere individual citizen.

    You may have been exposed to some brain damaging chemicals or head trauma during your tour of duty. Try to get some help before the damage becomes untreatable. Though given the way the VA “treats” veteran’s physical and mental health problems, you may be better off in a private facility.

    Finally Danny said: “Thank you.”

    Hey, don’t mention it.

    ***********

    “WTF? The colonists who initiated and fought in the American Revolution were criminals under British law. They were traitors to the crown. The US was able to continue as a separate sovereign entity because it won the war, not because the actions leading to it were not criminal under British law.”

    Well then, I suppose they shouldn’t have broken the law – is that what you are suggesting? Perhaps the ‘traitors to the crown’ should NOT have stood up for their convictions, or so it seems to you. You really are out of your tree.

  527. #534 Reed A. Cartwright
    March 21, 2008

    The only people that PZ could have been bothering in that line were his friends and family. The UMN-TC student didn’t think that PZ may have been in a group and interpreted the cops removal of him as evidence that PZ was disruptive. The removal of PZ is what disrupted his friends and family, not his presence.

  528. #535 Bad
    March 21, 2008

    How could that be accurate if the movie’s own RSVP page does not mention anything about tickets, and in fact, apparently, the email you get when you RSVP says that tickets are not required? In other words, the claim about not having a ticket is bogus.

    I do find it an amusing image that PZ was supposedly “hustling.” What, was he trying to pawn off zebrafish on unsuspecting theatergoers to make a quick buck? Was he dressed up in a purple zoot suit with dark sunglasses?

  529. #536 Drinker
    March 21, 2008

    I’m dying for more news.

    PZ wouldn’t leave us hanging for hours like this, would he?

  530. #537 articulett
    March 21, 2008

    Gosh, is this more fun than Haggard’s Gay Meth Scandal or what??

    What a glorious day for smart people every where.

    If only PZ would have gotten arrested… documentation or something that he was “forbidden” from seeing the movie…

    Don’t worry, PZ, I’m sure a bootleg copy will find you.

  531. #538 GrondramB
    March 21, 2008

    There’s a limit to how many faces they could have asked an off duty cop to memorize – so its worth asking why do this. They’ve got to be a little irony impaired in the first place to stop anyone from reviewing a movie that is supposedly about suppressing free expression.

    I think Elmo Zoneball of Darwin Central got it right

    “they want to be able to send out a press release the next day proclaiming that “Atheist Zealot Tries to Crash Movie Screening”…. replete with suitable out-of-context quotes mined from his blog, and get lots of free publicity for their stupid movie. The reason they chose PZ Myers was because he lives in Minnesota, and so it was likely he might try to attend the screening.”

    So PZ, you were either brilliant or lucky or both to bring such good backup.

  532. #539 The Flying Trilobite
    March 21, 2008

    #496 Azkyroth;

    I don’t know about that. I totally disagree with Danny on the point of Myers being a coward; I know it would have taken me a lot of restraint to stop from displaying frustration at the guard, so I think Myers was being calm, rational and yes, somewhat brave in a sense to walk away and report on this.

    But I don’t think Danny is wrong to post his opinion on PZ’s behaviour. Or at any rate, he is not so wrong he should be banned. His view seems to be at the extreme end of defending civil liberties using only the avenue of defiance when there were other options.

    Now, maybe being banned for spelling “trilobite” incorrectly (#451, spelled “trylobite”)is something that should be discussed…

  533. #540 Damian
    March 21, 2008

    From the link that John Pieret provided. This seems to be how they are going to spin it:

    “Dawkins asked a simple question: Why was one of his colleagues interviewed in the movie denied a chance to come see this movie and protest it and in fact was escorted out by security prior to admittance to the theatre? The irony apparently escaped Mr. Dawkins that he himself was a gatecrasher to the movie and was uninvited; nevertheless, he wanted to know why his colleague was turned away even though he himself was admitted as were his colleague’s family.

    I just happened to be standing directly in line behind Dawkins’ academic colleague. Management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in. Management then approached the man, asked him if he had a ticket, and when he confirmed that he didn’t, they then escorted him off the premises. Nowhere was one of the film’s producers to be found, and the man certainly didn’t identify himself. If a producer had been nearby, it’s possible that he would have been admitted, but the theatre’s management didn’t want to take any chances.”

    Evidently, even the trained monkeys know how to lie through their teeth.

  534. #541 Dr. J
    March 21, 2008

    “Is this true?

    would you take a serious the word of someone who called ‘expelled’ the “best documentary of 2008″?”

    It would certainly be so unlike creationists, I mean Intelligent design proponent to lie or generally be dishonest.

    Funniest thing I’ve read in a long time – I’m really looking forward to some reviews of the “movie” from the attendees.

  535. #542 Leigh
    March 21, 2008

    I hope to God that PZ, his lovely Trophy Wife, and Professor Dawkins are enjoying a refreshing adult beverage right now, while Skatje has a nice fruit juice and prepares a post detailing the victory.

    Days this delicious come but seldom and should be celebrated.

    PS Cuttlefish, you have outdone yourself!

  536. #543 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Considering that identification was required, and considering that Richard Dawkins was admitted, one wonders if PZ Myers did something to get Expelled as an NCSE architected publicity stunt.

    Clever!

    But the film is still coming out, oh no.

  537. #544 Alexandra
    March 21, 2008

    I’m dying for more news.

    PZ wouldn’t leave us hanging for hours like this, would he?

    Hmm… spend Friday night posting to the blog or hanging out with Dawkins? I know what I’d be doing.

  538. #545 Stanton
    March 21, 2008

    I don’t know what I should feel about this.

    On the one hand, the colossal hypocrisy of the producers of Expelled now borders on lethally stupid, given as how they have made a big song and dance number out of how Intelligent Design proponents are allegedly unfairly barred from mainstream science, but, have also been caught giving written instructions to their trained flunkeys to bar one of their allegedly disgruntled interviewees from watching a screening.

    On the other hand, I’m unsure whether I feel apathetic about their colossal pathetic-ness, or whether I am in so much shock to be bordering on numb.

  539. #546 jimbo92107
    March 21, 2008

    Too bad Dawkins didn’t do the obvious thing, which would be to tell the officer, “This one is okay, he’s with me.”

    Officer: “And you are…”

    “Reverend Dawkins.”

    Jedi mind tricks work on the weak minded.

  540. #547 Jing-reed
    March 21, 2008

    Thanks PZ, you just made my day!

    Already Friday here in Thailand, and you did indeed make it a ‘good Friday’ with this wondrous tale. Can hardly wait for Prof. Dawkin’s reaction.

  541. #548 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Gosh, is this more fun than Haggard’s Gay Meth Scandal or what??

    toss up.

    I mean, Haggard was the leader of the largest evangelical community in the US. that whole debacle was pretty sweet.

    Expelled is just a lame-ass mockumentary.

    still, the irony is just so perfect here, it makes it a toss up in my mind.

    I think the mileage that will be gained from this for good science education will be far more valuable than Haggard’s hypocrisy ever will be, though.

  542. #549 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    But the film is still coming out, oh no.

    But when? The film is still currently “in the closet?” It should be honest about its Christian orientation.

  543. #550 Brian Tristam Williams
    March 21, 2008

    Well. That makes me angry. I would have asked them how much it would cost, per chance, if they had to replace all of their windows.

    But, you know, maybe it was Richard Dawkins they intended to evict, but had trouble telling left from right or something.

  544. #551 Caroline
    March 21, 2008

    OMFSM!! I don’t really have anything to add to the discussion, but when I scrolled down and read “Richard Dawkins”…Hahahahaha! Simply classic.

  545. #552 David Denning
    March 21, 2008

    I can’t wait to read the story
    Of the battle and the glory–

    Hooray for the Myers/Dawkins advanced infiltration team. May we all use this fine example to inspire our own infiltration and confrontation of the IDiot-inspired showings.

  546. #553 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Ichthyic wrote:

    …seriously, if they are actual police officers, they are not acting legally in any sense I am aware of.

    Then, later…

    …we’re still not clear that actual, on duty, police were involved.

    Changing your tune? Glad I could help.

  547. #554 Pierce R. Butler
    March 21, 2008

    The original meaning of “sabot”, iirc, is a wooden shoe worn by peasants in the general area of northern France and the Netherlands up until the early industrial age.

    One method of expressing factory labor dissatisfaction in that era was to toss a shoe into the gears of the biggest machinery accessible: hence the term “sabotage“.

    Tonight Myers was not just a discarded cartridge shell: the more appropriate metaphor would be the modern saboteur’s preferred instrument, the monkey wrench.

  548. #555 Deborah
    March 21, 2008

    That allegedly unbiased review of the movie, posted on on Looking Closer?

    It’s got a spoiler alert at the end, with some text that you have to highlight.

    Here’s the “spoiler” text:

    Many scenes are centered around the Berlin Wall, and Ben Stein being Jewish actually visits many death camps and death showers. In fact, Nazi Germany is the thread that ties everything in the movie together. Evolution leads to atheism leads to eugenics leads to Holocaust and Nazi Germany.

    And the reviewer can’t see how this contradicts his earlier claims about this movie not being about bashing evolution?

    Amazing.

  549. #556 The Flying Trilobite
    March 21, 2008

    It’s weird. I’ve only been blogging online and relatively active making comments twice that long, and I’ve never felt more like there was an online festival or celebration than this one. It’s too good.

    It’s like an unforeseen comet streaking by. Fun times everyone, thanks from this atheistic-gothy-paleonerd-oil painter.

  550. #557 Danny
    March 21, 2008

    “How could that be accurate if the movie’s own RSVP page does not mention anything about tickets, and in fact, apparently, the email you get when you RSVP says that tickets are not required? In other words, the claim about not having a ticket is bogus.

    I do find it an amusing image that PZ was supposedly “hustling.” What, was he trying to pawn off zebrafish on unsuspecting theatergoers to make a quick buck? Was he dressed up in a purple zoot suit with dark sunglasses?”

    Well, but… there WAS NO REASON he could not attend. Some fools here act as if I am some kind of freak but in reality – yeah, reality! he should have stood his ground and dealt it.

  551. #558 Tyler DiPietro
    March 21, 2008

    “Considering that identification was required, and considering that Richard Dawkins was admitted, one wonders if PZ Myers did something to get Expelled as an NCSE architected publicity stunt.”

    Or perhaps, knowing that PZ lived nearby, they circulated a picture among the guards since they had a reasonable expectation that he might show up, while the same was not necessarily true of Richard Dawkins.

    William loses again.

  552. #559 Dale Husband
    March 21, 2008

    That’s one of the funniest blogs I’ve ever read!

  553. #560 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Ichthyic wrote:

    …seriously, if they are actual police officers, they are not acting legally in any sense I am aware of.

    Then, later…

    …we’re still not clear that actual, on duty, police were involved.

    Changing your tune? Glad I could help.

    not at all, the problem is that you can’t read.

    I wasn’t clear then if these were on duty police officers, and I’m still not. Nobody else is either.

    If they were on duty, then the question has to be asked if the city supports its personnel being used in this fashion.

    It’s a perfectly legitimate question.

    Yeah, I know you wouldn’t know what “legitimate” means if it bit you on the ass, but try to pretend I’m not actually responding to you.

    are you ready to admit you were wrong about PZ needing a ticket to get in yet, given that the producers sent out public requests for this screening, as documented by Kristine?

    I know you’ll never admit to being the idiot you are, but seriously, unless you want to become as big a joke as the subject of the thread itself, you should really learn when to quit while you’re behind.

  554. #561 MikeM
    March 21, 2008

    Q: WWBSD?

    A: See above.

    The more I think about this, the more I realize this will be impossible to keep out of the newspaper. As many have pointed out, you were in the movie. Just, wow. They accuse us of censorship? (Yes, I include me in “us” here, because I’m with you all the way.) How about, “You can’t come to see the movie we tricked you into being in?”. They’re not ashamed of this?

    I am laughing, and calling them “stupid” is barely a starting point. How about, “Actionable”, “Lame”, “Unreasonable”? I really want this to be in the news.

    What Would Ben Stein Do? We now have an answer. I can’t wait to see the reponse when he figured out he then let Dawkins in. That is sweet.

  555. #562 MTran
    March 21, 2008

    Danny, apparently imbibing of his own woo says, regarding the American Revolution: ” Well then, I suppose they shouldn’t have broken the law – is that what you are suggesting? Perhaps the ‘traitors to the crown’ should NOT have stood up for their convictions, or so it seems to you. You really are out of your tree.

    Danny, you need to go to a reading comprehension course, followed by a rigorous course in reasoning skills and critical thinking.

    I haven’t suggested anything that any literate, rational person could interpret as saying that the American colonists “should not have broken the law.”

    You were the fool who said that the US could not have been formed if the acts of the rebelling American colonists were criminal acts. I pointed out to you that their acts were, in fact, criminal under British law. The colonists knew full well that they would likely be hanged for treason if they failed in their rebellion. They succeeded.

    Rebels who lose are traitors. Rebels who win are founding heros.

    No one is required to meet your expectations of dumbassed ideological purity through some sort of legal “martyrdom” in the form of precipitating an arrest for a trivial matter.

    Besides, martyrdom is a theistic value, so encouraging an atheist to satisfy some religious aspiration is pretty counterproductive.

    And… I’m glad you are no longer in the active service, I do not want arrogant fools like yourself wielding weapons.

  556. #563 tsig
    March 21, 2008

    You should sue.

  557. #564 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    Nobody thinks you’re a freak, Danny. Now wash your flippers and get some sleep.

  558. #565 Autumn
    March 21, 2008

    I know that I’m late to the discussion, but the ideas that P-Zed would have any grounds to sue, or that he should have protested his exclusion, are ludicrous and juvenile. The proprietor of any establishment is well within his or her rights to call the police to remove a person that they just don’t like. You do not have any right to partake of a public performance simply because you are a member of the public. Many are the times that I have called the police to remove an individual who had commited no crime, but whose presence annoyed me. It is perfectly legal to expel someone from your property for no reason other than “I don’t want (or have been told not to want) to have that person here.”
    That said, the topic at hand is freaking hilarious.

  559. #566 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    But the film is still coming out, oh no.

    Posted by: William Wallace

    Little Willy, no one is trying to stop the film from being released. By tomorrow night, there will be at least a couple of reviews ripping up this film. Most of us will be laughing. We are laughing now.

    When the film comes out, it will have a short run in the theaters and within the month, will be available on DVD to church groups. But here is some good news for you Little Willy, you can package Expelled with your NPR report. Sadly for you, we will still dismiss you. Have fun.

  560. #567 Bob O'H
    March 21, 2008

    The cat in wondering why I’m laughing so hard.

  561. #568 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Amazing.

    You see it enough times, it just begins to numb you. There are a LOT of complete morons in this country.

    “William Wallace” is in fact, representin’ in this very thread.

    oh, the irony.

    It’s just too much; I can’t even manage to squeeze yet more irony out of his usage of the handle “William Wallace”.

    time for beer.

  562. #569 Joshua Fisher
    March 21, 2008

    Next stop: Dawkins and Myers attend a London screening. You can each dress as the other. That would require a shave and some colored contact lenses, PZ. Fortunately, though, no trips to the tanning booth.

    Great story. Cried tears–both kinds.

  563. #570 Terry Karney
    March 21, 2008

    Too damned funny. I was laughing, hooting, and generally confusing the other people in the room.

  564. #571 James Sager
    March 21, 2008

    Not all Creationists agree to how things came about. In my theory, the only thing that I disagree with science is that birds came on the scene before land creatures.

    I believe and I’m backed up scripturally that the days of Creation are not 24 hour periods, but undefined lengths of time that could be hundreds of million or billions of years in length. I feel that Evolution is real and that death was in the world before Adam’s sin.

    I didn’t discuss the issue in full because there isn’t space for it here. If you think you have an issue or question with this reconciliation between Creationism and Science, feel free to email me: James_Sager_PA@yahoo.com

  565. #572 T. Bruce McNeely
    March 21, 2008

    Considering that identification was required, and considering that Richard Dawkins was admitted, one wonders if PZ Myers did something to get Expelled as an NCSE architected publicity stunt.

    Hmmm. PZ Myers does “something” to get himself expelled while accompanying his family and Richard Dawkins
    or…
    the Expelled gang are clueless wankers.

    I know where I’d put my money.

    BTW William Wallace, what “something” do you think Dr. Myers did?

  566. #573 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    it will have a short run in the theaters and within the month, will be available on DVD to church groups.

    save those church groups some money; post the inevitable torrent liberally.

    seriously, if this flick makes no money, we won’t see its like again soon.

    Time for the torrentsphere to contribute something positive!

  567. #574 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    The proprietor of any establishment is well within his or her rights to call the police to remove a person that they just don’t like.

    Oh, I understand now. If a business owner just does not like some person because of their race, he can just call the police to evict them.

    Wow, it’s like the last 40 years never happened.

    Many are the times that I have called the police to remove an individual who had commited no crime, but whose presence annoyed me.

    And then did this for you, Sparky? Would they do this for you if their presence simply made you feel sad?

  568. #575 PZ Myers
    March 21, 2008

    Stuart Blessman, the student at UM who made that claim at the lookingcloser blog, is a liar.

    A shameful liar and a disgrace to the university.

    No, I was not bothering anyone. I went forward and got copies of the form we had to sign to get in, brought them back to my group, and the people in front of us asked me if they could have some, too. That was my only interaction with other people in line.

    Nobody had a ticket. You reserved a seat online, and they checked your name off their list at the front of the line.

    I was not trying to sneak in. I reserved my seats under my own name.

    I was called aside by a security guard, who asked if my name was PZ Myers, and who said that the producer had specifically asked that I be removed.

    We do have some idiots who get enrolled at this university. I like to think that they’re a minority, but I’m rather surprised that someone so ethically challenged is a student here.

  569. #576 MJ
    March 21, 2008

    Perhaps by expelling PZ, they are creating the premise for their next movie, Expelled 2: Expelled from ‘Expelled’. They will interview themselves under the guise of a completely different documentary ploy, blatantly distort and quotemine their own interviews and expel Ben Stein – making way for Expelled 3…

  570. #577 andante
    March 21, 2008

    Best laugh I’ve had in ages. I do believe I must have finally reached the end of the internet.

  571. #578 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Many are the times that I have called the police to remove an individual who had commited no crime, but whose presence annoyed me.

    you mean they were loitering? If so, that’s legit.

    do you have on duty cops hanging around outside your store to prevent the entrance of undesirables?

    that’s not legit.

  572. #579 Danny
    March 21, 2008

    “Danny, apparently imbibing of his own woo says, regarding the American Revolution: ” Well then, I suppose they shouldn’t have broken the law – is that what you are suggesting? Perhaps the ‘traitors to the crown’ should NOT have stood up for their convictions, or so it seems to you. You really are out of your tree.

    Danny, you need to go to a reading comprehension course, followed by a rigorous course in reasoning skills and critical thinking.

    I haven’t suggested anything that any literate, rational person could interpret as saying that the American colonists “should not have broken the law.”

    You were the fool who said that the US could not have been formed if the acts of the rebelling American colonists were criminal acts. I pointed out to you that their acts were, in fact, criminal under British law. The colonists knew full well that they would likely be hanged for treason if they failed in their rebellion. They succeeded.

    Rebels who lose are traitors. Rebels who win are founding heros.

    No one is required to meet your expectations of dumbassed ideological purity through some sort of legal “martyrdom” in the form of precipitating an arrest for a trivial matter.

    Besides, martyrdom is a theistic value, so encouraging an atheist to satisfy some religious aspiration is pretty counterproductive.

    And… I’m glad you are no longer in the active service, I do not want arrogant fools like yourself wielding weapons.”

    I understand and appreciate your point of view. I wish all the best to you and ours. Good luck.

    Danny

  573. #580 Jackson
    March 21, 2008

    What a way to waste an evening, reading comments on Pharyngula. This whole event was truly epic.

  574. #581 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    …son of a bitch, it worked!

  575. #582 Jason Spaceman
    March 21, 2008

    Dawkins Crashes ‘Expelled’ Party

    Mark Moring

    Noted Darwinist shows up uninvited at private screening of Intelligent Design documentary.

    Expelled, a new documentary that argues the case for Intelligent Design from a Judeo-Christian perspective, has been in the headlines lately, prior to its April 18 theatrical release.

    The film, hosted and narrated by Ben Stein, has been screened to invitation-only audiences at churches and for various Christian groups. But several critics have worked their way in to some of the screenings, most notably Roger Moore of The Orlando Sentinel, who recently trashed the movie in his blog.

    A critic of another kind “crashed” a screening in Minnesota on Thursday night–Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion and arguably the most outspoken critic of Intelligent Design and Creationism. Dawkins himself appears in the documentary–but claims he was duped into believing it was going to be an objective account of Darwinism vs. ID.

    Jeffrey Overstreet, a film critic for CT Movies, broke the news on his own blog Thursday night after receiving an e-mail from a college student who was at the screening.

    Stuart Blessman, the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities student, told Overstreet in the e-mail that Dawkins’ appearance “was quite a surprise” to both the audience and associate producer Mark Mathis, who fielded questions afterward.

  576. #583 Drinker
    March 21, 2008

    Some schools have an honor code that would Expell!! the dishonorable Mr. Blessman.

  577. #584 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    “Clever”

    Wallace has exceeded the self-parody threshold.

    No wonder the lights dimmed for moment.

    Ok. Back to reality.

    PZ unquestionably did the right thing by declining to make a scene. Doing so would have played right into their greasy little atheist-smearing hands. I also believe that taking any sort of legal action would be not only fruitless, but more importantly, a missed opportunity to take the high road.

  578. #585 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Would they do this for you if their presence simply made you feel sad?

    no, then it’s time to call Homeland Security.

    :p

  579. #586 FanO'theBUCKS
    March 21, 2008

    Nice work, Doctor.

  580. #587 Captian
    March 21, 2008

    Maybe you can get on Leno or Letterman with this story (or at least Conan O’Brien).

  581. #588 Frak
    March 21, 2008

    photos or it didn’t happen.

  582. #589 Scote
    March 21, 2008

    The proprietor of any establishment is well within his or her rights to call the police to remove a person that they just don’t like.
    Oh, I understand now. If a business owner just does not like some person because of their race, he can just call the police to evict them.
    Wow, it’s like the last 40 years never happened.

    Jeh, what the Expelled producers did was a Hilarious case of clueless and public hypocrisy but it was not illegal in the way you are thinking. Trying to make that point is the wrong one because business are free to discriminate against individuals as long as it is not on the basis of being a member of a “protected” class, such as gender, race, national origin or religion. The producers did not discriminate against PZ based on religion but on the fact that he is an outspoken critic who shines the spotlight of fact-based reason on their alternative reality-based propaganda movie, so it isn’t religious discrimination. The movie was a private screening–since, like vampires, Expelled producers are harmed by the light of day.

    The correct point about the expulsion is the one PZ is making, which is the parody-proof level of hypocrisy, hubris and Keystone Kops cluelessness exhibited by the Producers in their efforts to save their film from being seen by anyone but an equally clueless audience.

  583. #590 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    …son of a bitch, it worked!

    were you using “The Secret”?

  584. #591 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    Calgon?

  585. #592 Jim Howard
    March 21, 2008

    Damn, but I wish I could stay awake for the denouement of this little saga. I guess I’ll have to wait until morning. Great job, PZ!

  586. #593 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    photos or it didn’t happen.

    http://amused-muse.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-from-expelled.html

    there ya go; close as you’re gonna get, anyway.

  587. #594 Alex McQuown
    March 21, 2008

    You were the victim of a crime, PZ. To quote the relevant law:

    TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER II > § 2000a
    § 2000a. Prohibition against discrimination or segregation in places of public accommodation
    (a) Equal access
    All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.

    Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this subchapter if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:

    (3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and …blah blah you get the point. The officer that told you to leave had no legal means to do so.

  588. #595 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    The producers did not discriminate against PZ based on religion but on the fact that he is an outspoken critic who shines the spotlight of fact-based reason on their alternative reality-based propaganda movie, so it isn’t religious discrimination.

    you must have missed the tens of thousands of times these folks have called atheism and “darwinism” religions.

    so many and so consistently, that one could actually make the argument this WAS religious discrimination, using their own definitions.

  589. #596 Koen
    March 21, 2008

    The police listening to a loony church sect. Only in America or soon coming to a theatre near you?
    Not a laughing matter.

  590. #597 Autumn
    March 21, 2008

    @jeh and Ichthyic,
    I am only stating that as the owner of a business I have the right to refuse service to individuals for little or no reason. I am well within my rights to exclude a customer only because I rolled a die, and his number came up. As long as one is not excluded because of a specific class association articulated in statutes, one is only an individual, and it is well within the rights of a manager to say “I don’t like his haircut, please send a cruiser to take him away.”
    I make no judgement as to the morality of this action, but conflating what I said with Jim Crow laws is a low blow.
    And as has been noted in many posts, police officers are very often hired to enforce the whims of particular business owners.

  591. #598 Kristine
    March 21, 2008

    PZ was causing no disturbance, and neither “Jared” nor Mark Mathis made reference to such. Both said that PZ needed a ticket and had to leave because this was a private screening to which he was not invited. I had no ticket, and I was not invited, unless you call posting a link on a “please fill our theatre, tell your friends, da da” website an invitation. In which case, it’s the same “invitation” PZ got.

    At any rate, Mark Mathis lied to me, too. He told me that “Crossroads” was a “working title” for the film. Wesley Elsberry has shown that the domain for Expelled was purchased before all or most of the interviews were done.

    This is just disgraceful.

  592. #599 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Calgon?

    oh, man, are you telling me you missed some good woo?

    http://www.thesecret.tv/

    it was all the rage (read: laughter generating) just last year.

    PZ posted about it on several occasions.

  593. #600 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    This is just disgraceful.

    she said with an evil grin and a shimmy.
    :P

  594. #601 MandyDax
    March 21, 2008

    From that blog post that John Pieret linked to earlier, Stuart puts this at the bottom with a spoiler alert:

    Many scenes are centered around the Berlin Wall, and Ben Stein being Jewish actually visits many death camps and death showers. In fact, Nazi Germany is the thread that ties everything in the movie together. Evolution leads to atheism leads to eugenics leads to Holocaust and Nazi Germany.

    Okay, already new that they try this poisoning the well tactic. Never mind that their “atheism leads to eugenics” is the most flawed of all of these syllogisms.

    Shouts out: <3 to PZ for posting this ASAP and giving me a genuine LOL experience, to Richard for scaring the shit out of Mathis with his mere presence, to Kristine for posting about what went on inside, to Cuttlefish for yet another fantastic topical poem (rhyming Eohippus = brilliant!), and to the people to decided PZ needed removing for breaking my collection of irony detectors.

  595. #602 Susannah
    March 21, 2008

    Whom the gods will destroy, they first make mad. And how!

    I never use this, but what else can be said? – ROFLMBFPAO!

  596. #603 Jarett
    March 21, 2008

    Epic, PZ. PLEASE post about whatever comes of this, I can’t wait to hear Dr. Dawkins’ reaction.

  597. #604 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    These people are brain-damaged.

  598. #605 QED99
    March 21, 2008

    “Photos or it didn’t happen.

    http://amused-muse.blogspot.com/2008/03/expelled-from-expelled.html

    there ya go; close as you’re gonna get, anyway.”

    No, no. That won’t do. Where are all the missing transitional photos?

  599. #606 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    And as has been noted in many posts, police officers are very often hired to enforce the whims of particular business owners.

    OFF DUTY

    why is it that this is not sinking in?

  600. #607 Mac
    March 21, 2008

    Unbelievable, PZ. Just incredible. I laughed, I cried, I’m waiting for the full recap tomorrow.

  601. #608 propter doc
    March 21, 2008

    Funny, but in a disturbing sort of way. What defense is reason against such ignorance?

  602. #609 Drinker
    March 21, 2008

    If UM Student Stuart Blessman isn’t a lie himself then he will probably become a bit more notorious.

    The only other place HisFlyness has been seen before is also on lookingcloser and a U2 fan site.

  603. #610 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    “I don’t like his haircut, please send a cruiser to take him away.”

    now try doing that every day, and see what kind of official response you get.

    do you think it a good idea to defend the notion that one can abuse tax-paid officials for personal whims?

    just curious.

  604. #611 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    Trying to make that point is the wrong one because business are free to discriminate against individuals as long as it is not on the basis of being a member of a “protected” class, such as gender, race, national origin or religion.

    Hmm, you say it’s OK as long as it is not on the basis of religion? So therefore, technically, PZ’s lack of religion is a legit reason? And if they kicked him out because he was Jewish that would not be OK? Puh-lease.

    So imagine they decided to make a movie based on one of Jack Chick’s vehemently anti-Catholic tracts. Could they legitimately exclude Catholics from a screening that was publicly announced?

  605. #612 MAJeff, OM
    March 21, 2008

    PZ unquestionably did the right thing by declining to make a scene. Doing so would have played right into their greasy little atheist-smearing hands. I also believe that taking any sort of legal action would be not only fruitless, but more importantly, a missed opportunity to take the high road.

    Something I often see missing in discussions of tactic and strategy–in a number of movement forums–is a failure to understand issues of proportionality. PZ getting his ass arrested would have been counterproductive. It was a private screening in that the theater was rented out and people had to sign up in advance in order to get in. They would seem to be legally within their rights to exclude him (anyone ever see those signs that say “We reserve the right to refuse service….” before?). He wasn’t expelled explicitly because of his atheism, (the civil rights issue some might want to raise) but because of his online presence. He would blow their ability to control the message by putting everything out there in a critical, factual review. This just keeps them able to say, “see, he’s complaining about a movie he hasn’t seen” but they didn’t count on Richard Dawkins or PZ’s family or some of the other science blogging folks to get in. The ability to control message is slipping away. Getting arrested would have made PZ look foolish. Instead the whole instance demonstrates the Expelled folks’ ridiculousness (I still think there need to be *jazz hands* in use when ever one says EXPELLED!…I’m imagining a “Just Jack” situation.)

    I see this with certain student–and other–activists as well. Everything requires a protest. Why, they never know, but protest has to happen. Tactics should be proportional to the goal. With Dawkins getting in but PZ left out, while his family and other science bloggers get in(!), really does make them look ridiculous. Getting arrested would have made PZ look ridiculous.

    Now, if RD is going to be on Maher tomorrow (probably by remote?) the story becomes even more widespread, and these idiots look even more ridiculous.

    Dammit! I’ve told myself I’m going to withdraw from so much online time, but this just sucked me back in. Gonna be a weaning process, I can tell.

  606. #613 OzAtheist
    March 21, 2008

    I might not be laughing as hard as you PZ, but I am having a good chortle.

  607. #614 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Has anyone left a scathing comment here yet? Five-to-one sez they’;; never actually appear

  608. #615 Reed
    March 21, 2008

    #559 The proprietor of any establishment is well within his or her rights to call the police to remove a person that they just don’t like.
    Not if the reason they “just don’t like” them is gender, race, color, religion, or national origin. See for example USC Title 42 sec 200

    Now that doesn’t necessarily apply to this incident for several reasons (they could have excluded PZ for other reasons than his [lack of] religion, and this was a vaguely “private” screening despite being open to anyone on the internet), but the general statement that you can exclude anyone from a public establishment (as defined in the link above this includes theaters) for any reason is incorrect.

    Again, I am NOT saying PZ could or should sue. IMO, that would be silly and a waste of effort even if he did have a legal ground.

    The simple fact that the makers of expelled chose to prevent someone who was featured in their movie from viewing a screening is more damaging than any legal action would be.

  609. #616 Morgan
    March 21, 2008

    I have a theory about why you were expelled and Richard Dawkins wasn’t.

    Somebody DID recognize Dawkins, and pointed him out to the guards before going on about some other business. But the guard thought they were pointing at you. The guard thought YOU were Dawkins and kept you out of the film.

    Then, I imagine, the guard was told that Dawkins had to leave immediately. So he found “Dawkins” (you) and booted you out.

    Any number of people may have seen Dawkins and wanted him out–but word spread that he had been dealt with, and by some luck, he made it to his seat without being noticed again. Maybe the reason he wasn’t noticed again is BECAUSE the people who had been waiting for him and worrying believed he was gone–so they stopped looking!

    Funny story either way.

  610. #617 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Again, I am NOT saying PZ could or should sue. IMO, that would be silly and a waste of effort even if he did have a legal ground.

    just to be clear, I’m not either.

    I just want a public issue to be made of the usage of official personnel in this capacity, if indeed ON DUTY cops were used in this case.

    It sounds like it was not the case, however, from witness reports. sounds more like mall guards, which is entirely appropriate:

    private thugs to protect a “private” venue.

  611. #618 Kristine
    March 21, 2008

    The first e-mail:
    “Dear [I used my real name],

    This is a confirmation of your RSVP for the free “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” movie screening. Venue information is below.

    Theater: AMC Mall of America 14
    4th Level, Center of South Ave.
    Bloomington, MN 55425

    Date: March 20
    Time: 7:00 PM

    Number of seats reserved: 2

    YOUR NAME WILL BE ON A LIST AT THE DOOR. NO TICKET IS NEEDED.

    More information about “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” can be found at *link blah blah*
    Sincerely,
    Motive Entertainement

    If you need to cancel or make an important change to an existing RSVP, please email *snip.* Be sure to reference the screening city, date, and time in your email.”

    I received a second e-mail reminder again stating that no ticket was required.

  612. #619 Anthony
    March 21, 2008

    Well, you see Professor PZ Myers has this nice American name and they were obviously confused by the Professor Richard Dawkins with that unintelligible English name.

  613. #620 Dr Benway
    March 21, 2008

    Someone rented the theater for a private party, just as you or I might do. No tickets were sold for money to the general public.

    The people renting the theater can legally exclude anyone they please.

  614. #621 jeh
    March 21, 2008

    “I don’t like his haircut, please send a cruiser to take him away.”

    Wow, you must live in a different part of American than I do. And if the business owner asks the police to kick the sh*t out of them–for good measure–will they do that too?

  615. #622 Amafortas
    March 21, 2008

    PZ,

    Thank you for this. Westborough Baptist is visiting my University this week. (Or to be more accurate, they’ve invaded.) your story restores my faith in reason.

    Cheers

    ~A,

  616. #623 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “Something I often see missing in discussions of tactic and strategy–in a number of movement forums–is a failure to understand issues of proportionality.”

    Abso-damnwell-lutely. And does anyone who so cavalierly suggests protest or legal action know what a pain in the ass getting arrested and/or suing would be? For a stupid movie? PZ will get to see this movie eventually (unless Mathis distributes his picture to every theater in Minnesota, and that would just be ever the more god damned hilarious).

  617. #624 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Dammit! I’ve told myself I’m going to withdraw from so much online time,

    ahh, that explains why I haven’t seen your posts of late.

    good man.

    psst:

    thesis

    :p

  618. #625 StarMan
    March 21, 2008

    This is why most super heroes have a sidekick

  619. #626 Bharat
    March 21, 2008

    That was unbelievable PZ. Congrats for becoming the number 1 public enemy.

    Completely made my day.

  620. #627 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “Has any previous Pharyngula post hit the 500 mark in comments before? Certainly not in one short evening.”

    This is probably the fastest I’ve ever seen, but oh yes, threads have gone over 500 numerous times. Any time Myers invokes Scott Adams, for example. And the time he deliberately baited the global warming deniers, we got over 1300 comments on that one. And the “Ahistorical Garbage” thread might just top that record if we get any more goofballs trickling in.

  621. #628 gunasekaran
    March 21, 2008

    Hi , This is very nice and superb…

  622. #629 Kristine
    March 21, 2008

    Someone rented the theater for a private party

    A “private party,” posted on a public website with a link to click for free admission to these screenings, at which DVDs are distributed with film clips, so that “you can spread the word to the general public”? A “private party,” in which the producer exhorts you to rat on your neighbors and mentions that “we are working with the FBI” to identify “the enemies of this film”?

    Oh, did I mention that they brought up the FBI?

  623. #630 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Dammit!

    Heh. Yeah.

    I miss you, Jeff, but… what Icky said. ;-)

  624. #631 Scote
    March 21, 2008

    Hmm, you say it’s OK as long as it is not on the basis of religion? So therefore, technically, PZ’s lack of religion is a legit reason? And if they kicked him out because he was Jewish that would not be OK? Puh-lease.
    So imagine they decided to make a movie based on one of Jack Chick’s vehemently anti-Catholic tracts. Could they legitimately exclude Catholics from a screening that was publicly announced?

    Jeh, this moment is a great one that exposes the Expelled producers for the irrational screaming hypocrites that they are. Enjoy it! I know I am.

    But you continue to make the wrong point and one not supported by facts or law. For purposes of being in the audience the producers couldn’t care less if PZ is religious or not, they only care if he has credulously swallowed their “freedom to teach the controversy” codswalop. While religious people are far, far more likely to do so than secular people clulessness is not exclusive to creed. This was not a case of religious discrimination and your analogy fails to be analogous. You are overstating your case and, thus, loosing the argument.

    You know those signs that say “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone?” Well, they are **legal** when used in the context of booting PZed. The Epic Fail is the public exposure of they hypocrisy, not the breaking of any law. As to the laws people have cited, those do not apply the same way to “invitation only” private events–and PZed was not discriminated on the basis of being a member of a protected class. While you could argue that the self-selection process of signing up on line functionally made the event public, you still won’t be able to prove that PZed’s **religion** got him booted rather than his outspoken, science-based criticism of the film. Were he credulously supportive of the film, I have no doubt that he would have been allowed in, atheist or no.

    If you are going to argue against irrationality please do so using reason rather than emotion.

  625. #632 MAJeff, OM
    March 21, 2008

    ahh, that explains why I haven’t seen your posts of late.

    And even when I did, I stayed within my field of study….not going too far astray any more (my mind wanders easy)

  626. #633 gunasekaran
    March 21, 2008

    Hi , This is very nice and superb…

  627. #634 Calladus
    March 21, 2008

    Not that I want to speak in their defense, but I’ll go out on a limb an be fair…

    Perhaps the guest list got loaded by practical jokers? It was a web sign-up after all. What sort of verification was put into this? Check on a throw-away email address?

    I could easily see the guy vetting the list …

    “We’ve got 21 ‘Charles Darwins’ and 15 ‘Thomas Huxleys’. And look, 5 ‘Richard Dawkins’. I removed all I found – I just hope one didn’t slip by.”

    “Oh, look, just one PZ Myers! THIS must be for real, after all, the professor lives nearby! Let’s keep a lookout for him!”

    tsk

  628. #635 Anatomie
    March 21, 2008

    Fucking. Priceless.

  629. #636 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    PZ Myers wrote:

    We do have some idiots who get enrolled at this university. I like to think that they’re a minority, but I’m rather surprised that someone so ethically challenged is a student here.

    Wow, PZ…ould you spell out specifically the ideological test you would recommend for admission to the U. of M.?

    Our own Dr. Michael Dini at UofM-Morris.

  630. #637 MAJeff, OM
    March 21, 2008

    I’m not dead! Just posting a lot less. Can’t spend quite so much time doing this shit, when I should be writing about state regulation of marriage and the integration of gay lifestyles into the relations of production and consumption :)~

    This just means you have to show up at the drinking festivities, like this Monday’s Skeptics in the Pub with Mike the Mad Biologist (see skepchick.org for details!)

  631. #638 Drinker
    March 21, 2008

    Liar Stuart Blessman has a blog. http://stu2.blogspot.com/

    It’s just what you’d expect from an ID believer.

  632. #639 Autumn
    March 21, 2008

    To jeh, Ichthyic, and Reed,
    I am not endorsing the action taken in this case, I am, however, respecting the right of individual business owners to prohibit entry onto their premises of whoever they deem undesirable.
    Yes, this means that I support the right of a business owner to not serve me because of my long hair (gone now, but I’ve been refused things because of it in the past). Government services should absoloutly be available to everyone, but if I own a business and decide to not allow men with sideburns into my store, that is wholly legal. It will likely cut into my bottom line, but it is the right of the owner, renter, or manager, to kick out whomever the hell they want to.

  633. #640 scote
    March 21, 2008

    “Well, you see Professor PZ Myers has this nice American name and they were obviously confused by the Professor Richard Dawkins with that unintelligible English name.”

    I’m guessing they let him in because Dawkins looks like a respectable, mild-mannered Episcopalian minister rather than Satan’s Evolutionist. They probably had a Be On the Look Out photo of someone with horns and a pointy tail and a bearded guy with tentacles below the waist. Guess they only spotted the later.

  634. #641 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    Kristine wrote:

    Oh, did I mention that they brought up the FBI?

    Wow. I wrote PT-mafia in the sense of an ideological clique. But based on Kristine’s reporting, maybe the term PT-mafia represents something even more sinister than I had recognized.

  635. #642 luis alexandre
    March 21, 2008

    Talk about getting the last laugh…

  636. #643 DBC
    March 21, 2008

    Damn. Even I’ll delurk for this…

    Where are all the folks who attacked PZ for talking about the movie he hadn’t seen yet? I’d like to hear their reactions.

  637. #644 idlemind
    March 21, 2008

    Must be way past your bedtime, “William Wallace,” given your inability to comprehend straightforward English words. Since when does basic ethics — like not telling lies in public — constitute an ideology?

  638. #645 Lee Harrison
    March 21, 2008

    Willy Wally:

    Wow. I wrote PT-mafia in the sense of an ideological clique. But based on Kristine’s reporting, maybe the term PT-mafia represents something even more sinister than I had recognized.

    Wow, Willy boy – you are a real arse.

  639. #646 Scote
    March 21, 2008

    “Wow, PZ…ould you spell out specifically the ideological test you would recommend for admission to the U. of M.?
    Our own Dr. Michael Dini at UofM-Morris.
    Posted by: William Wallace”

    Let’s see. How about people who don’t knowingly make false and defamatory statements about other UofMers?

    Not really and ideological test in the sense you are trying to imply, though, more of an ethical one. You know, the kind that University Codes of Ethics deal with?

  640. #647 MJKelleher
    March 21, 2008

    I couldn’t go off-line until I read and laughed some more.

    My guess on why PZ was bounced but not RD is that PZ made the reservation under his own name, and including unnamed “guests”. Identifications requested to match against the reservation list. They knew PZ was coming, but RD wasn’t anticipated, so he got in under their radar.

    Good work!

  641. #648 Pmomma
    March 21, 2008

    CLASSIC!!!! Not to shoot down your ego, but…how could they possibly recognize YOU and not DAWKINS!?! Was HE not on “the list”? This is just too priceless.

    These people are complete and total hypocrites! How can they sit there with a straight face and argue that secular science is censoring, and “expelling”, an opposing viewpoint, while at the same time censoring and expelling vocal atheists and scientists?

  642. #649 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    It will likely cut into my bottom line, but it is the right of the owner, renter, or manager, to kick out whomever the hell they want to.

    and it’s my right as a taxpayer to say that frivolous usage of police services, if used to obtain your “rights” in this fashion, can and should be frowned upon.

    If actual on-duty police officers were used to guard entrance into a fucking FILM, then I call that frivolous usage of a public service, and I want to know how the city that employs such officers feels about it.

    clearer?

  643. #650 Jim
    March 21, 2008

    He said ethically, not ideologically challenged, WW. Another idiot-admit for UM, I see. Get to class much?

  644. #651 Azkyroth
    March 21, 2008

    Wow, PZ…ould you spell out specifically the ideological test you would recommend for admission to the U. of M.?

    Our own Dr. Michael Dini at UofM-Morris

    Is Mr. Wallace actually suggesting that the existence of a policy on academic integrity, academic honesty, and student conduct is some sort of oppressive requirement? Are Christians really that morally stunted?.

  645. #652 Kristine
    March 21, 2008

    You want to clarify that statement regaring me, William Wallace?

  646. #653 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Wallace again exceeds the self-parody threshold! He’s going for the record tonight.

    Kristine: “…the producer exhorts you to rat on your neighbors…”

    Are you serious?

  647. #654 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Wow, Willy boy – you are a real arse.

    I warned him, but like all creobots, they just can’t help but shoot themselves in the head.

    It’s just making this whole thing all the sweeter, to see the irony that is “expelled” being accurately reflected in the posts of the very people who support it.

    It’s like when you look at two mirrors, held up to each other, and you see endless reflections….

  648. #655 scott
    March 21, 2008

    If I were in this situation I would never consider suing the producers of Expelled, but I would think about suing Stuart Blessman for his “a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in.” As I read his words, they come pretty close to be libelous, if “a man” is legally sufficient to connect his statement to an individual.

  649. #656 Damian
    March 21, 2008

    Stuart Blessman, the lying, backtracking troll says (on “looking closer”):

    “Yes, you registered online, but the initial invitation was by invite only. You registered who was coming in your invited group, not just “first come, first serve.”

    And since I was literally 3 feet away from Myers when he was “expelled,” I heard every word. It was obvious he was being kicked out by theatre management because he was not invited nor was he on the pre-submitted list. He didn’t cause a disruption per se; he was kindly escorted out.

    In fact, Dawkins himself acted as a perfect gentleman during the Q&A. He was respectful of everyone present, even though he was a little upset about Myers and his own role in the film.

    And, Peter, Mathis didn’t mention any details about a press release or finished cut.

    One final comment or reflection – Having Dawkins show up in the theatre felt like the equivalent of having President Bush show up after a screening of Fahrenheit 9/11. It was that odd and yet exciting.”

    The baby Jesus is in floods of tears, the poor little guy.

  650. #657 Joseph Hewitt
    March 21, 2008

    Too funny. This is an anecdote to keep for the ages.

  651. #658 Autumn
    March 21, 2008

    Note that I agree wholeheartedly with laws defining discrimination against various classes of folks illegal.
    All I am saying is that “undesireable” is subjective, and thus open to exclusion.
    Trying to prove that one has been excluded for a particular reason is damn-near impossible.
    I am in no way endorsing such behavior, I am merely reminding you that the waitress who keeps the local asshole from coming back to the bar is relying on the generous interpretation of exclusion to keep an undesireable out.
    I may be wholly missing what I am trying to say, and if that is the case, I apologise.
    I seem to be misconstrued more often than not, but I’m married, so its become old-hat.

  652. #659 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    A “private party,” in which the producer exhorts you to rat on your neighbors and mentions that “we are working with the FBI” to identify “the enemies of this film”?

    Oh, did I mention that they brought up the FBI?

    Posted by: Kristine

    An enemies list!?! This just gets better and better. It should not come as any surprise, given Ben Stein’s past employment, that their is a list of “enemies of the film”. How Nixonian.

  653. #660 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    If actual on-duty police officers were used to guard entrance into a fucking FILM, then I call that frivolous usage of a public service, and I want to know how the city that employs such officers feels about it.

    Could you put this to rest. At worst, this was a moonlighting police officer whose wages were paid by a private party. At best, it was just a security guard.

  654. #661 Godstomper
    March 21, 2008

    According to this website
    (http://lookingcloser.wordpress.com
    /2008/03/20/richard-dawkins-crashes-the-party-at-a-screening-of-expelled),

    PZ was removed for being disruptive and not having a ticket. It also states none of the producers were there. I’d seriously like to know what happened.

  655. #662 Tyler DiPietro
    March 21, 2008

    Before I head, I just have to mention that I love the sight of William Wallace acting as the sole defender of the ID crowd after this massive Leroy Jenkins moment. He kind of reminds me of the last Japanese soldier, fighting on even though the war is over. Or in this case, even though the huge, irreversible public humiliation of his confreres has already taken place.

  656. #663 Stuart Blessman's blog
    March 21, 2008


    Tell me if this statement is troublesome – “What do atheists and the Grinch have in common?”

    This is what we wrote on the whiteboard at the contact table today, including a very well drawn picture of the Grinch. Yesterday we had “Communists and the Grinch.” (I think we should go for broke and write “Atheists, the Grinch, and hundreds of millions dead”) This seemingly innocent question seems to pack a lot of heat. Grant, a former atheist, came up with it.

    “That statement is horrible! It really offends me! I’m gonna go report you to the campus union, you shouldn’t be saying such things on public property! Your grammar is incorrect (we had “does” originally). You are turning away people with statements like that; they can’t find Christ because of you! You should change it to “Jews and the Grinch”, that would make more sense. It’s an unfair comparison that presupposes things. You aren’t Christian, you aren’t showing Christ’s love!” Etc etc, just a handful of the things I heard at the table during 45 minutes.

    Is that statement really that troublesome? Or do most atheists have such shaky convictions that the littlest thing offends them? We had one guy stop to argue the question (he acknowledged it was a question!), and I asked him if atheism was a religion. To his credit and to my surprise, he answered “yes.” It took me back. We then asked if he was an atheist, and he stormed off after telling us it was none of our business. Still, I’m proud of the guy, and I told him so.

    …. More at Lying Student Stuart Blessman’s Blog http://stu2.blogspot.com/

  657. #664 Azkyroth
    March 21, 2008

    Could you put this to rest. At worst, this was a moonlighting police officer whose wages were paid by a private party. At best, it was just a security guard.

    Feel free to document this claim any time you like, jackass.

  658. #665 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    @autumn

    I am in no way endorsing such behavior

    fair enough.

    @wally gator:
    At worst, this was a moonlighting police officer whose wages were paid by a private party. At best, it was just a security guard.

    and you know this… how?

    the same way you KNEW PZ had “done something wrong”?

    how you can keep going when everyone is laughing at your idiocy is just remarkable.

  659. #666 Kristine
    March 21, 2008

    Are you serious?

    Yes, I am serious. After telling us that “some group” was trying to video the entire film (which I might add is not on 35mm film but is a crappy laptop feed) to post on torrent, he told us to look around at our neighbors to see that no illegal activity was going on.

    Nomad also went a day or so ago – read his account at the “Expelled” thread at After the Bar Closes.

  660. #667 John C. Randolph
    March 21, 2008

    Well, the name of the movie says “no intelligence allowed”, so PZ shouldn’t have expected to be allowed in.

    -jcr

  661. #668 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Or do most atheists have such shaky convictions that the littlest thing offends them?

    says the person who supposedly watched PZ get physically removed from a screening of the movie…

    oh fuck, what’s the point.

    It’s just to funny. My irony meter is beyond busted, and the overflow is starting to hurt.

  662. #669 Trent1492
    March 21, 2008

    Stuart Blessman is on the “Looking Closer” blog right now, digging himself deeper into a pit of lies.

    http://tiny.cc/FKr8K

  663. #670 Nic Nicholson
    March 21, 2008

    LOL, PZ Myers denied entry on the basis of (lack of) religion.

    Funny, funny, fundies.

  664. #671 octopod
    March 21, 2008

    #630, what on earth does the quoted post have to do with your reply to it?

    PZM: “Boy, I sure think our students are largely a bright and ethical bunch! I suppose there are always a few dim ones, but I haven’t met any real scumbags. Go figure.”
    WW: “Ideological purity test, you say? Tell me more!”

    Also, wasn’t the Dini thing about him not wanting to write recommendations for students who totally failed to grasp the point of his class? Why on earth did a creationist ask an evolutionary biology prof for letters of recommendation, anyhow? Isn’t that kinda like a flat-earther asking a geophysics professor for a recommendation?

  665. #672 Lance
    March 21, 2008

    I’ve read but never commented before. This warrants a change. I laughed pretty hard. I shared it with my girlfriend and she laughed too. After reading some of the comments on here about them trying to remove Dawkins, I wonder if it might be funnier if they let him stay. I’d love to see the looks on everyone’s faces once the lights come on and they see him standing there. Now THAT could be priceless.
    Oh yes, and the, “That’s not what I meant!!” could be funny too. Maybe just a, “Wrong!” here and there plus the above idea I had. Sorry, now I’m rambling. So funny I can’t think straight.

  666. #673 Azkyroth
    March 21, 2008

    I hope someone is preserving screencaps or PDF versions or something of the Looking Closer post(s)…

    You know IDiots and their memory holes.

  667. #674 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Yes, I am serious. After telling us that “some group” was trying to video the entire film (which I might add is not on 35mm film but is a crappy laptop feed) to post on torrent, he told us to look around at our neighbors to see that no illegal activity was going on.

    it must have been the overwhelming paranoia that attracted Stein to these folks to begin with, just like it attracted him to Nixon.

  668. #675 Thomas S. Howard
    March 21, 2008

    OK, so let’s recap what we know of the Designer:

    Likes: Atheist Biologists, Beetles, Hydrogen

    Dislikes: Erstwhile Nixon staffers, Discovery Institute, Hypocrisy

  669. #676 Bob
    March 21, 2008

    Wow, just wow.
    I cannot wait to see how they spin this one.

  670. #677 Sue Larries
    March 21, 2008

    One string of invective, please.

    Willy Wallace – you are a humorless, smugly stupid shit and fully deserve to be a coward Xian fuckwit you are, you soul-less shit of a trolling ass.

    I pity to the bottom of my heart whatever family is connected to you, in any way,and anyone who has the misfortune to work with or near you shape or form.

    Enjoy that parody you call your life, even if it isn’t amusing, except in the sickest, saddest way.

  671. #678 CS
    March 21, 2008

    http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2008/03/dawkins_crashes.html
    March 20, 2008 11:42PM
    Dawkins Crashes ‘Expelled’ Party

    Mark Moring

    Noted Darwinist shows up uninvited at private screening of Intelligent Design documentary.

    Expelled, a new documentary that argues the case for Intelligent Design from a Judeo-Christian perspective, has been in the headlines lately, prior to its April 18 theatrical release.

    The film, hosted and narrated by Ben Stein, has been screened to invitation-only audiences at churches and for various Christian groups. But several critics have worked their way in to some of the screenings, most notably Roger Moore of The Orlando Sentinel, who recently trashed the movie in his blog.

    A critic of another kind “crashed” a screening in Minnesota on Thursday night–Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion and arguably the most outspoken critic of Intelligent Design and Creationism. Dawkins himself appears in the documentary–but claims he was duped into believing it was going to be an objective account of Darwinism vs. ID.

    Jeffrey Overstreet, a film critic for CT Movies, broke the news on his own blog Thursday night after receiving an e-mail from a college student who was at the screening.

    Stuart Blessman, the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities student, told Overstreet in the e-mail that Dawkins’ appearance “was quite a surprise” to both the audience and associate producer Mark Mathis, who fielded questions afterward.

    Blessman reported that Dawkins asked several questions, and complained that “any statement he made in the film was in fact under the assumption that he was being interviewed . . . for a film that was to take an even-handed look at the Intelligent Design/Evolution controversy.”

    It’s not the first time Dawkins and other Darwinian experts say they were duped by the filmmakers. The Guardian reported last fall that Dawkins said, “At no time was I given the slightest clue that these people were a creationist front,” he said. And The New York Times quotes Dawkins and other atheists who appeared in the film under a “deceptive invitation.”

    Blessman also wrote that “the Q&A then proceeded pretty uneventfully, with several of the questions addressed to Dawkins himself. Mathis and Dawkins also clearly had spoken on numerous occasions and appeared to continue an argument that they had started previously.”

    Read more about Expelled in earlier editions of Reel News at CT Movies.

  672. #679 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Well. Time for bed. Kristine, thanks for sharing all this interesting information. This really puts the “qzzyx” in “surreal”.

  673. #680 blf
    March 21, 2008

    Brilliant! Fecking brilliant!

    One possibility (of several) I don’t recall seeing mentioned about asking Pee Zed to leave and not Dawkins: Dawkins was also on (completely legal) banned list, perhaps even had his picture circulated as well, and the staff simply failed to recognise him.

    The alleged Q&A session afterwards doesn’t prove “they” knew beforehand that Dawkins was present. Given how fast this aim-at-both-feet, shoot-the-full-clip has spread on the interwoos, a reasonable hypothesis is someone(s?) spotted the story and made a few calls. Just like people tried to contact the media. (B.t.w., did any media types show up?)

    And, as I think it was Martin who said (paraphrasing), would the people yapping about suits et al. get a fecking clew!

  674. #681 Nullifidian
    March 21, 2008

    You should have allowed yourself to be arrested. You were to commit no crime at all. Please don’t show courage on the web only to show cowardice in real life. Is this how you stand up for what you believe?

    This is the most ignorant, dick-waving bullshit I’ve seen in an age. I have been arrested before, and it’s not a lot of fun, particularly when being warehoused in a toxic environment like Pier 57 in New York City during the 2004 RNC protests. There is absolutely no reason on this earth why PZ should have let himself be arrested over a stupid creationist movie. Leaving himself free to post about their refusal to admit him, with the cherry on top being that Dawkins was allowed in, is the exact right way to handle it.

    If I didn’t think it was utterly pointless to try this strategy, I would think you’re an agent provocateur, because it would play right into the hands of the creationists if they were to be able to report that a Darwinist was so intent on crashing (and, it would be inferred, disrupting) the movie that he had to be hauled off in handcuffs. There is a time and a place for that kind of thing, and this was not it.

  675. #682 Nomad
    March 21, 2008

    I recently went to one of the screenings as well, perhaps I can add a clarification. In my case we had a hired thug wearing a police uniform present as well. Despite the fact that the cop left his police cruiser parked immediately outside the entrance to the theater, instead of in the parking lot like a normal person might, and also despite the fact that he was wearing his full police uniform, he was described to us as being an off duty officer.

    I expect that the officer who showed PZ out was also off duty. I was not aware that they get to use their cruisers and full uniforms and are allowed to park in no parking zones when doing mercenary work, but apparently they do.

    The problem I have with this is that PZ was forced out of the entire theater, not simply denied access to the screen that was rented out for Expelled. I assume that they would have had to have the operator of the theater ask the cop to do that, the Expelled people have no right dictating who may or mat not be present in the entire theater. Unless I’m mistaken and they actually did rent out the entire theater building and every screen within.

    And I’d expect that the theater operator would prefer not to do that, I’d expect bad it to be bad publicity if they’re shown strong arming people out of their business as a result of pressure from religiously motivated individuals.

    I think I know how Dawkins got in without setting off alarms in advance, but just in case I’m right and the same concept may be employed again I’ll refrain from blowing it (although it’s easy enough to figure out). If those involved wish to spill the beans, though, I’d like to know if I’m right.

  676. #683 Azkyroth
    March 21, 2008

    Holy shit, are the Looking Closer and Christianity Today blogs really using THE EXACT SAME TITLE?

    lol…

    PS: take a look at the comments policy on Jeffrey Overstreet’s site for extra humor.

  677. #684 Marcus Pittman
    March 21, 2008

    I think it is great…Why would any “Rational” person want to see our “creationist propaganda” anyway…it’s funny. You won’t let us teach it in school’s, so we finally get to Kick you out.

    As for Dawkins, who refuses to take part in any debate or think using his own individual thoughts, or answer any tough questions regarding his obvious religion, Were delighted that he finally took the time to challenge his faith.

    Nice turn of events and we get some amazing publicity. The “Producer” knows what he is doing…

    +1 Creationist.

  678. #685 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    PS: take a look at the comments policy on Jeffrey Overstreet’s site for extra humor.

    sorry, already on irony overload.

    must – drink – beer…

  679. #686 Form&Function
    March 21, 2008
  680. #687 Form&Function
    March 21, 2008
  681. #688 MAJeff, OM
    March 21, 2008

    The problem I have with this is that PZ was forced out of the entire theater, not simply denied access to the screen that was rented out for Expelled

    Good point. I’m sure 10,000BC was playing.

  682. #689 Zachary B.
    March 21, 2008

    My mouth literally just gaped open when I read Richard’s name.

    Well played P.Z. Well played.

  683. #690 Russell Seitz
    March 21, 2008

    Positively Illuminating PZ– so much so that I up and
    Illuminated it for the benefit of posterity– the producer’s conduct is so epically stupid that this episode deserves a mosaic in the Cathedral Of Dumb:

    http://adamant.typepad.com/seitz/2008/03/the-bayeaux-tra.html

  684. #691 Godstomper
    March 21, 2008

    Never mind my last comment. I came across new information claiming that Blessman lied.

    “Is that statement really that troublesome? Or do most atheists have such shaky convictions that the littlest thing offends them?”
    The problem isn’t that they attacked someone’s views, but rather that they endorsed a baseless stereotype. Besides, your whole story sounds made up and calling atheism a “religion” is just playing word games. Call atheism whatever you like, but know that when religion is criticized, the critics are referring either to a belief system taken on faith or a belief (or beliefs, more precisely)in supernatural ontological claims.

    Regardless of how you define “religion,” or any other word for that matter, you still need to address the arguments themselves. If there was evidence for the existence of god(s), that would justify theism. If there was evidence against it, that would justify weak or strong atheism, depending on the strength of the evidence. If evidence was absent either way, then atheism, defined simply as an absence of belief, would be justified. Redefining words cannot change the evidence nor how it is evaluated for any proposition.

    My arguments do not unfairly attack religion, but instead treats its claims as you would any other for the sake of logical consistency.

  685. #692 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Nice turn of events and we get some amazing publicity. The “Producer” knows what he is doing…

    yeah, if he running a “twit of the year” contest is what he was after.

    here, this is last year’s:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSqkdcT25ss

    you might want to participate in the next one yourself!

    oh wait…

  686. #693 momo
    March 21, 2008

    perfect!!!

    and, did Richard enjoy it?

  687. #694 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    Ichthyic, that is the film we use for Jerry. I do not thing I have to finish the rest of that statement.

  688. #695 Pantufla Milagrosa
    March 21, 2008

    I say we all chip in for PZ’s $10 ticket to watch the movie when it comes out!

  689. #696 T&A
    March 21, 2008

    That is hilarious! If this doesn’t prove how dimwitted these creationist are, I don’t know what will!

  690. #697 T&A
    March 21, 2008

    That is hilarious! If this doesn’t prove how dimwitted these creationist are, I don’t know what will!

  691. #698 paul
    March 21, 2008

    atheism cured my ADD!!, i just read every comment.

  692. #699 Leigh
    March 21, 2008

    @Marcus Pittman(#667):
    “I think it is great…Why would any “Rational” person want to see our “creationist propaganda” anyway…it’s funny. You won’t let us teach it in school’s, so we finally get to Kick you out.”

    Dude! What’s with the random capitalization, grotesque misspelling, and (ahem) idiosyncratic punctuation? In our “school’s”, indeed!

    We won’t let you and your ilk teach biology for the same reason we won’t let you teach English. You know nothing, and your ignorance would be contagious.

    But what’s even worse is what you *think* you know, because it’s all wrong. That’s not just clueless — it’s dangerous.

  693. #700 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    I do not thing I have to finish the rest of that statement.

    heh.

    nope.

    It just had to be put somewhere in this thread, for posterity’s sake.

    I mean, what the Expelled folks pulled off would most surely win them that contest, hands down.

  694. #701 Tam
    March 21, 2008

    I have to admit, even though Dawkins feels much more famous than Myers to me (duh), I don’t know what he looks like (at least until I saw the loldawkins above), and I would recognize ol’ PZ. Go figure.

  695. #702 Madwack
    March 21, 2008

    I am amazed about the lightheartedness with which you tell us that for absolutely no reason you are refused entrance to a cinema, enforced by a police officer.

    Am I reading this correctly? You have to sign in and show I.D to go and watch a movie? F*** me, and I thought Europe was already bad..

  696. #703 Thomas S. Howard
    March 21, 2008

    Do the Darwin Awards have some category for stuff like this besides “Honorable Mention”? Like “Special Achievement in Abject, Humiliating Stupidity without Loss of Life or Injury”, say? ‘Cause they should, at least this once.

  697. #704 paul
    March 21, 2008

    Damn it, I think I need a new name to post under, I’m not the paul that was cured of ADD by atheism. Funny comment though.

  698. #705 Nullifidian
    March 21, 2008

    It’s like the old adage – ‘They came for the Jews/Xians/Zoasters and I did nothing…’ They came for the Atheist and he did nothing.

    Danny, Danny, Danny, Danny….

    That is not just an old adage; it is a poem from Martin Niemöller. It is written in response to a historical incident you might have heard of called the Holocaust. By referencing it to use against Dr. Myers, you are inverting the sense of the poem from a cry of regret of a not-so-innocent bystander to use it against the victim. If they came for the Atheist and he did nothing, then it is appropriate to say, mutatis mutandis, of the Holocaust that they came for the Jews, the Roma/Sinti, the anarchists, the communists, etc. and they did nothing. This is the most disgusting and distasteful way of registering your disagreement with Dr. Myers that I can think of.

    So my advice to you would be just go fuck off before you make an even bigger arse of yourself than you have done already.

  699. #706 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    Do the Darwin Awards have some category for stuff like this besides “Honorable Mention”?

    you’re right, it does belong there, and they do have categories that would fit:

    http://www.darwinawards.com/

    I highly suggest, if you have the energy, that you get cracking and submit it!

    I’m done in.

    too much irony for one night.

  700. #707 Sharilyn
    March 21, 2008

    Re: #610
    Instead the whole instance demonstrates the Expelled folks’ ridiculousness (I still think there need to be *jazz hands* in use when ever one says EXPELLED!…I’m imagining a “Just Jack” situation.)
    OMFSM!!!! LMAO! STOP it! I have been laughing so hard through the last few hours I just got my sides to stop hurting! The Just Jack and Jazz Hands reference was entirely TOO IMMEDIATELY VISUALIZED!! ROFLMAO while reaching again for my Albuterol.

  701. #708 Robster, FCD
    March 21, 2008

    Posting in an epic thread…

    lulz were had by all

  702. #709 Reed
    March 21, 2008

    @CS #671
    That was linked earlier in the comments. I posted a comment there, but unsurprisingly, it has yet to show up.

    @Autumn
    I agree that you have to be able to throw out undesirables. All I was trying to do is point out that there are limits as to what criteria you can use to decide someone is undesirable. Unless the expelled people had a policy of excluding people based on their religious views, they are well within their rights. Even if that was their policy, they might be OK due to the supposed “invite only” nature of the event.

    @madwack
    It was a “private” event (read up for details, that’s debatable but it wasn’t your regular buy a ticket and watch showing), and even regular theaters have the right to refuse service to anyone (as long as it isn’t based on race, religion etc.) Same reason a bouncer can throw you out of a bar.

  703. #710 Nepal123.com
    March 21, 2008

    Well, I am not laughing as hard you are and all these stupid fans that are laughing hard…. just coz YOU had some special guest to watch the movie for you??

    And then you are HAPPY … ??

    Lets not talk about ur guest now… or your family… .. .. its not cool that they kicked you out.. of a public theatre??

    Did this happen in America or some Hindi movie??? and then this stupid professor is all smiling that he had some dude watch movie with his family??

    Co-coincidentally he had this popular guy… watch movie with his family…. and he was out typing a blog… while .. according to the constitution….. there was no reason to kick him out of the hall…

    and being an american…. he did not ask to the COPS why.. coz ofcourse .. it was an illegal threat… that he was given… sad…

  704. #711 Ichthyic
    March 21, 2008

    That was linked earlier in the comments. I posted a comment there, but unsurprisingly, it has yet to show up.

    there is a two link max limit if you want to avoid the comment being held for examination.

    helps eliminate spam.

    you can spread more than two links across multiple posts, however.

  705. #712 Soapy Sam
    March 21, 2008

    That’s so good it almost makes me believe there IS a god!

  706. #713 GrondramB
    March 21, 2008

    Stuart Blessman:

    “So ultimately Dawkins’ first complaint was irrelevant. His second complaint was that any statement he made in the film was in fact under the assumption that he was being interviewed by Ben Stein (and by Mark Mathis) for a film that was to take an even-handed look at the …

    Well, that’s the good news. No science minded person is likely to ever again be interviewed by Ben Stein under the assumption that it will be even handed.

    Mrs. Garrison will have more credibility going forward than Stein.

  707. #714 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    Worst. South. Park. Ever.

  708. #715 Pom
    March 21, 2008

    I didn’t realise you lived in Nazi Germany

  709. #716 Quasarsphere
    March 21, 2008

    Soapy Sam: “That’s so good it almost makes me believe there IS a god!”

    Well, I’m starting to think there may well be a Loki!

  710. #717 iPhone Hellas
    March 21, 2008

    Great Story! ILMAO :-)

  711. #718 Milo Johnson
    March 21, 2008

    “You won’t let us teach it in school’s, so we finally get to Kick you out.”

    —Let’s stipulate that you idiot god-botherers are actually much better, nobler, and more honest people than we evil science types, and also that we are determined to not let you teach your creationist silliness in “school’s.” The problem you face is that YOU are the ones that say that educators should “teach the (manufactured) controversy.”

    If that is the case, then why don’t you sort of, uh, practice what you preach, and let us come into your churches and teach science. After all, it’s the only way to teach that controversy since we already stipulated that we won’t let you do it in schools. Yet, I have yet to hear of any churches that teach real science classes. Why, pray tell, is that? Could it be because you are actually, you know, hypocrites and liars?

    By the way, many, if not most of us, are more than willing to let your nonsense be discussed in religion classes, philosophy classes, in mythology, anthropology and sociology classes, it’s just that we are not willing to permit you to parade your superstition as scientific data that is supported by any evidence.

    And you obviously don’t know very much about what goes on inside of a real school anyway, based upon your abysmal lack of literacy.

  712. #719 GrondramB
    March 21, 2008

    Worst South Park ever has to go the Virgin Mary episode although most recent Britney Spears episode may well have been the least funny.

    Dawkins’ response to the episode shows he has real sense of humor and is a good sport.

  713. #720 Leigh
    March 21, 2008

    @Milo (#715)

    And by the way, Marcus, there IS no controversy — at least among those of us in the reality-based community. We’ve actually studied the scientific evidence (at least some of it . . . there are so many thousands of peer-reviewed papers that no one could read them all), and we don’t embrace willful ignorance.

  714. #721 Reed
    March 21, 2008

    @Ichthyic
    I meant my comment on the Christianity Today blog had not appeared. What I was trying to say is that blog was linked here earlier (back at comment 580), and I attempted to comment on it.

    Should my comment be Expelled from there, I’ll CC it over on ATBC.

  715. #722 Michael X
    March 21, 2008

    Aw, Marcus. Really? That kind of reasoning makes me think you arn’t even trying. At least put some effort into handwaving.

    So, yes, why should we want to watch, and then dissect and demolish a propaganda movie that attempts to disable science and do massive educational damage by purporting that evolutionary theory is false? Boy, I just can’t figure out why anyone would want to waste the effort. So, I guess it isn’t true that you’ve shown abundant arrogance propped up by impressive ignorance. Well done.

    EPIC FAIL Creationist. You’re so wrong, you’re not even playing.

  716. #723 Reed
    March 21, 2008

    Very interesting, my comment has not appeared, but the post at http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2008/03/dawkins_crashes.html
    has mutated been intelligently modified to include links to this post and PZs most recent one.

  717. #724 Horwood Beer-Master
    March 21, 2008

    Yesterday my job came to an end and I became freshly unemployed…

    …Today I couldn’t give a shit about employment – this is bloody hilarious!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks Richard and PZ (and the numbskulls at “Expelled”) you’ve made my day.

  718. #725 FloridaAnon
    March 21, 2008

    Also posting in an Epic thread.

    Shorter PZ Myers (winner of an internet): “I got kicked out for the lulz.”

  719. #726 Eruvadhril
    March 21, 2008

    *laughs and laughs*
    Well done, sir.

  720. #727 Dave Bell
    March 21, 2008

    Probably too late now, but, from my own experience, I suspect you have to spoonfeed the media. However smart and clever the journalists you know personally, you have to sell the story to a system.

    Which means you need to throw in lines such as “Professor Richard Dawkins, Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, England”. It means you should consider the structure of an AP story, which puts the core in the first paragraph (for several reasons).

    Amd, yes, the key point is that you’re not being allowed to see the film you were interviewed for. Letting Richard Dawkins in just adds to the win, but it could distort the story. It would be easy to muddy the waters with academic status issues.

  721. #728 scote
    March 21, 2008

    Funny, my comment hasn’t appeared on CT either, even though the post has been updated since my post :-)

    However, the article still claims that “Jeffrey Overstreet, a film critic for CT Movies, broke the news on his own blog Thursday night after receiving an e-mail from a college student who was at the screening” Even though Overstreet wasn’t informed of the event until **after the screening**. Whereas PZed “insta-blogged” about it during the screening. But then why should facts get in the way of a Christianity Today story…

    BTW, I think one of the reasons that blowhard Stuart Blessman tried to claim that PZed was bothering “invited” attendees standing in line was that it didn’t occur to Blessman that PZed was chatting with a **group** of friends and family he came with in line. Blessman seems to have assumed that PZed appeared lone-gunman style and that Blessman could get away with claiming that PZed was harassing people near him in line based on the false belief that they were ID True Believers. Wrong. More Epic Fail on the part of the ID crowd.

  722. #729 Ramases
    March 21, 2008

    It seems science is not the only thing the films’ supporters are deluded about.

    Amongst the other silly comment by Stuart Blessman is this…

    “…the second question was asked by a surprise member of the audience: Richard Dawkins, author of “The God Delusion,” and arguably the biggest name in the movie other than Mr. Ben Stein himself.”

    Does this guy seriously think an idiot like Ben Stein is comparable to an eminent scientist like Richard Dawkins?

  723. #730 John Flemming
    March 21, 2008

    I can see the humour in the situation, but I also see a serious breach of Human Rights. Pulled from the queue to see a movie? I assume the movie is on ‘general release’ (ie, you pay your money, you get in)? This in the ‘Land of the Free’?
    Yeah, right, the same kind of freedom that theocrats want – you’re free to do as you’re told.
    What a disgrace, to the shame of all America.

  724. #731 Scote
    March 21, 2008

    also see a serious breach of Human Rights. Pulled from the queue to see a movie? I assume the movie is on ‘general release’ (ie, you pay your money, you get in)? This in the ‘Land of the Free’?

    Um, no. You really should read the OP or the comment thread. The film is still pre-release. Hopefully, it will stay that way :-)

    As to “Human Rights,” if anything having to watch this drivel is the human rights violation, not the other way around.

  725. #732 anonimo italiano
    March 21, 2008

    ROTFL! They let the bad wolf in! :D
    I’d say that only this vignette was worth much more than the whole movie itself. :D

  726. #733 Vaal
    March 21, 2008

    Cracking! Another own goal by the religiously deluded.

  727. #734 Tam
    March 21, 2008

    That is the funniest thing I have read all week. How can they not have recognised Dawkins? His face is synonymous with the “New Atheist Movement” that currently has so many Christians up in arms!

    The only thing funnier would have been if you were accompanied by Satan, complete with the pitchfork, pointy ears and tail.

  728. #735 Brian
    March 21, 2008

    I have nothing to say that hasn’t already been said. I just wanted to join the party.

    Thanks for the laughs, PZ, and everyone else who posted here.

    1. Make propaganda film.
    2. Lie to obtain interviews.
    3. Reverse sense of movie’s title to prevent interviewees from attending pre-screening.

    EPIC FAIL.

  729. #736 Hematite
    March 21, 2008

    <Mortal Kombat>MYERS WIN</Mortal Kombat>

    This is fantastically funny, a perfect start to the Chocolate Festival.

    This is full of win. I don’t know how you could be more awesome than sneaking Dawkins into the theatre! (disclaimer: yes, we know no actual sneaking was involved)

    P.S. Three cheers for Cuttlefish!

  730. #737 Kristjan Wager
    March 21, 2008

    Does this guy seriously think an idiot like Ben Stein is comparable to an eminent scientist like Richard Dawkins?

    Good catch. I think I can speak for all of us non-US readers, when I say that none of us had heard about Ben Stein before this movie. Yes, I know he had some other other role in a different movie, but who really remembered his name?

    Dawkins on the other hand has been translated into numerous languages, and was a big name even before his latest book.

  731. #738 sophia8
    March 21, 2008

    I think it is great…Why would any “Rational” person want to see our “creationist propaganda” anyway…it’s funny. You won’t let us teach it in school’s, so we finally get to Kick you out.

    As for Dawkins, who refuses to take part in any debate or think using his own individual thoughts, or answer any tough questions regarding his obvious religion, Were delighted that he finally took the time to challenge his faith.

    Nice turn of events and we get some amazing publicity. The “Producer” knows what he is doing…

    +1 Creationist.

    Has anybody told Marcus Pittman that some semi-literate teenager is posing as him on the internets?

  732. #739 Dzho
    March 21, 2008

    I was just about to go to bed when I saw this. Now its almost seven oclock in the morning!
    Wow.

  733. #740 Conan the barber
    March 21, 2008

    This is dangerous. Dawkins might leave the theater as a reborn Christian.

  734. #741 Dave Springer
    March 21, 2008

    Maybe it wasn’t you in particular, PZ. It may be they were kicking out everyone with steel toed boots and brass knuckles. HAR HAR HAR

  735. #742 October Mermaid
    March 21, 2008

    The funniest thing about all of this is that if there really WERE a God, he’s clearly not on the side of the Expelled morons.

  736. #743 decrepitoldfool
    March 21, 2008

    LOL!!!

    OK Wallace, here’s how it works in the real world: you cobble up a piece of tripe as a movie with third-rate intellect behind it, then make it possible for people who are libeled in the movie to attend a showing, and then throw one of them out, you will come out looking like a total doofus. This is what has happened to the producers. And they can’t contest professor Myers’ version of events because no video.

    /late to the Wallace-kicking party

    I would like to add my vote to the request for a Dawkins guest-post.

  737. #744 LaTomate
    March 21, 2008

    Wow!! Take it as a victory – now you’re famous!!

    I hope Richard tells us about his movie experience too :)

  738. #745 Name Withheld To Avoid Harassment
    March 21, 2008

    PZ: I suspect you were spotted because the organizers recruited members of the Twin Cities Creation Science Association to watch for you.

    Was there a lady wearing a funny hat standing nearby?

  739. #746 David Marjanovi?, OM
    March 21, 2008

    The pwnage! ROTFL! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

    ——————–

    Comment 138 deserve attention. I don’t have time now to read any farther, though. 734 comments… man…

  740. #747 David Marjanovi?, OM
    March 21, 2008

    The pwnage! ROTFL! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

    ——————–

    Comment 138 deserve attention. I don’t have time now to read any farther, though. 734 comments… man…

  741. #748 An
    March 21, 2008

    Like, others, I prolly dont have anything new to say but wtf!!! 734 comments!!…wtf again!

    PZ MYERS FOR PREZ!!!

  742. #749 hughesy
    March 21, 2008

    Come-on why didn’t you record this on you camera phone and release it on bit torrent -can’t you sneak you daughter or Richard in or something to record it again ? I refuse to pay any money to watch this garbage-i will rip off the producers as much as possible though!!!

  743. #750 Heather
    March 21, 2008

    im in ur teatr watchn ur flmz!

    How ironic and funny this whole thing is. Expelled from expelled, truly a made for the headlines situation.

    Maybe the IDers need to make one of those packs of playing cards with Dawkins and PZs faces on it, maybe Hitchens as well. But what can be on the rest of the pack?

  744. #751 Rodman
    March 21, 2008

    hehe, I live in Iran and I thought these things only happen over here. So much for the land of the free!

  745. #752 cmotdibbler
    March 21, 2008

    heather: the rest of the deck *must* be made of jokers!

  746. #753 Aspirin99
    March 21, 2008

    Wow, I wish I would have seen this last night. The mall is 5 minutes from my house. What a great story.

  747. #754 Craig
    March 21, 2008

    Wonderful and funny as hell.

    An unwelcome prostate check for fundies.

  748. #755 Anthony
    March 21, 2008

    Seems like a waste of blogging time. The subject is boring.

  749. #756 Ichthyes
    March 21, 2008

    That is AMAZING! I’m still giggling over it. This one will keep me smiling for hours. I can’t wait to hear Prof. Dawkins on the subject.

  750. #757 Deanne Taylor (Lilith)
    March 21, 2008

    PZ:

    Had to drop a comment on this. I was getting ready to go to work this morning when I was read your article over the phone.

    Thanks for the laugh. It’s a STEALTH DAWKINS.

    Hee hee. Hee hee hee. Hee hee ha HAHAHAHAH.

    Cough. :D

    Dee

  751. #758 Roel
    March 21, 2008

    PZ,
    The Dawkins part is funny, but I don’t think the rest of the story is funny at all.

    A police officer denied you access to a movie anybody else is allowed to see, for no good reason, a movie in which you yourself appear for goodness’ sake.
    This is OUTRAGEOUS. It’s a violation of your civil rights. You should file a complaint against the policeman and sue the movie theatre.

    I can only hope that the media pick up the story, and show the whole country that creationism is not interested in truth or justice at all, only in thought control.

  752. #759 LisaJ
    March 21, 2008

    Wow! Look what I’ve missed while sleeping!

    This is perhaps the funniest thing I’ve hear in ages. Unbelievable! hahahahahahaha
    I will be laughing all day on my drive to Toronto, this is just awesome.

    So you’re telling me, PZ, that you had to reserve seats under your own name. Did Richard Dawkins also supply his name before the event, and they still didn’t realize?! Wow, what a bunch of idiots!

    hahaha, this is fantastic.

  753. #760 Claudia
    March 21, 2008

    can’t wait to hear what Richard Dawkins have to say.
    it was great to start this friday laughing out loud!

  754. #761 Wiggy
    March 21, 2008

    This remarkable turn of events deserves a celebration. I’m popping the cork off a bottle of wine right now. But first, won’t everyone join me in a toast? To PZ and Professor Dawkins. May all of your victories be so sweet. Cheers!

  755. #762 Joe
    March 21, 2008

    Say, PZ? You were in an Apple Store. You could have called the media from one of their sample iPhones. (I can understand why you were too distracted to think of it though — that’s absolutely hilarious!)

  756. #763 Not important
    March 21, 2008

    It was probably a policeman on detail. Paid for by the theater, and yes the theater can kick people out for any reason they see fit and it would be trespassing to refuse.

    People seriously need to do some thinking before they start yelling about police acting outside the law.

  757. #764 catta
    March 21, 2008

    Epic win. :D Oh, how I wish that someone with a camera phone has filmed this…
    Adding to the “who is this Ben Stein anyway?” sentiment — nobody in Europe has a clue who this guy is (all I knew was that he hosted some sort of TV show a few years ago; and I knew this only because I’m a little more involved with US culture than normal). The movie wouldn’t make it to a screening here. If they tried, I’m pretty sure they’d be hard pressed to find an actual movie theatre to rent. Er, because we’re all raging anti-semites and Nazis over here, of course, not because creationists are widely considered part of the lunatic fringe.

  758. #765 Grover
    March 21, 2008

    *Sigh*

    And it’s exactly this kind of “Haw, haw, stupid morons, they’re so dumb” attitude that stirs up so much anti-science sentiment among Christians in the first place. If you’d stop treating them like idiots, maybe some of them would actually listen to what you have to say. Oddly enough, people tend to not listen to what you have to say when you’re an ass. Weird I know.

    Of course that’s not really what it’s about, is it? It’s not really about the sharing of knowledge anymore, it’s about being right. How’s that working for you? Enjoy the smug satisfaction in knowing that you’re pretty much behaving exactly like the fundamentalists that got you so angry in the first place. But it’s different for you, of course. Because you’re right. Right?

    *Sigh*

  759. #766 Nunya
    March 21, 2008

    “Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult; whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse. Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you. Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.” Proverbs 9:7-10

  760. #767 grafixer
    March 21, 2008

    PLEASE get this to the press! The Orlando Sentinel might be interested in your story. It is important that the public, and the FL Legislature realize how prejudicial these neocreos are becoming. If you don’t believe what they do, you will be “cast out.” Sounds real Christian of them, eh?
    Please get this to some reporters.

  761. #768 Gary Ruppert
    March 21, 2008

    The fact is, you liberals know this movie has the facts, and try to argue, but you have no recent discourse, so you do illegal things, and whine. Here in the heartland, we have the right to kick you out, especially since you kicked us out, and God out, of the classrooms and our nation. We are fighting back. God is with us.

  762. #769 grafixer
    March 21, 2008

    C’mon everybody, sing it with me…
    “Academic FreeDUMB!!!”

  763. #770 HumanisticJones
    March 21, 2008

    Dude! I know I’m late in the commenting here, but I just read this and now all of my coworkers are staring at me from the loud yelling of “OWNED!” That is some of the best news I’ve read all week.

  764. #771 Falcarius
    March 21, 2008

    Wow…this is just too good. I agree with the commenter who said this would make great Daily Show fodder (I fear the topic, and certainly the delicious double irony, is too “inside” for the mainstream media to make too big a deal of it). Too bad they’re off until Monday.

    Perhaps Dawkins will bring it up on Maher’s show, but has anyone forwarded the story to Keith Olbermann? It seems like a good candidate for “Worst Persons” honors.

  765. #772 Amy
    March 21, 2008

    I wish there were some way to notify Bill Maher. This is just the kind of thing he would love to put in his monologue tonight on HBO.

  766. #773 Zarquon
    March 21, 2008

    Enjoy the smug satisfaction in knowing that you’re pretty much behaving exactly like the fundamentalists that got you so angry in the first place.

    No, he’s really not. PZ hasn’t lied to anyone or pretended to be persecuted. That you ignore the lies and hypocrisy of the ID crowd is your problem, because it destroys your credibility.

  767. #774 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    This is what we wrote on the whiteboard at the contact table today, including a very well drawn picture of the Grinch. Yesterday we had “Communists and the Grinch.” (I think we should go for broke and write “Atheists, the Grinch, and hundreds of millions dead”) This seemingly innocent question seems to pack a lot of heat. Grant, a former atheist, came up with it.

    Do you really think you’re being clever Stuey?

    grow up

  768. #775 Stuart Ritchie
    March 21, 2008

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That’s AWESOME!

  769. #776 Plognark
    March 21, 2008

    That’s so funny I almost spewed coffee out my nose :D

  770. #777 True Bob
    March 21, 2008

    Very amusing. More evidence that these IDiots haven’t graduated from Middle School yet, the pettiness.

  771. #778 Andrewf
    March 21, 2008

    I’m appalled.

    I’m appalled that someone can be chucked out of a cinema queue by the police on the whim of the cinema owner.

    I’m appalled that (according to the comments here) police in the US can moonlight as security guards WHILE WEARING THEIR UNIFORMS. Bloody hell. Does noone else see the massive potential for abuse of power there?

    (I used to be appalled by the strength of the Creationist movement in America, but I’ve kind of got used to that idea by now.)

  772. #779 Aaron
    March 21, 2008

    PZ, that is BEAUTIFUL.

    just BEAUTIFUL.

    Despite the police interference, which is questionable, you have no doubt pulled the most ridiculously AWESOME fastball on them EVAR.

    Kudos.

  773. #780 Paul
    March 21, 2008

    Disturbing with a funny twist!

  774. #781 Keith
    March 21, 2008

    Tell me, are you laughing as hard as I am?

    Yes I am.

  775. #782 Jack Rawlinson
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, that’s too beautiful. I hope RD finds time to write about this and to trash that pathetic movie.

  776. #783 True Bob
    March 21, 2008

    What is the concern about the off-duty cop? That is very routine. Ever see a funeral procession, with police? Those guys are off duty. Like the ones who direct traffic at the end of church services. And yes, they can arrest you if they are off duty, if you break the law (like trespassing, eh).

  777. #784 CalGeorge
    March 21, 2008

    “763: “The fact is, you liberals know this movie has the facts, and try to argue, but you have no recent discourse, so you do illegal things, and whine. Here in the heartland, we have the right to kick you out, especially since you kicked us out, and God out, of the classrooms and our nation. We are fighting back. God is with us.”

    Out on his sorry ass!

    You can have your imaginary pals, God and Jesus – just don’t expect undeluded people to think very highly of you or your little fantasy friends, especially when you force your unenlightened religious puke on kids who should be learning how the world operates, not what goes on in your narrow-minded, god-intoxicated head.

  778. #785 pawiz
    March 21, 2008

    Oh the irony, it almost hurts. Or is that my sides splitting?

  779. #786 Matt
    March 21, 2008

    @ #750: Seems like a waste of blogging time. The subject is boring.

    Thanks for taking your time to post that valuable insight. Have an owl.

    @ #779: Thanks for that. I was having a hard time articulating scathing contempt. Little Gary does love to show his ignorance in forums.

  780. #787 David Harmon
    March 21, 2008

    Damn, but you couldn’t make this stuff up. Congratulations on your Total Win, PZ!

  781. #788 fontinalis
    March 21, 2008

    This may be the first time I’ve actually laughed out loud from reading a blog post. Bloody brilliant.

  782. #789 Chang
    March 21, 2008

    See, God does have a sense of humor!

  783. #790 Glen
    March 21, 2008

    It’s worthy of further media, television appears so mundane in contrast! – Most Excellent :-)

  784. #791 SteveM
    March 21, 2008

    I’m appalled that (according to the comments here) police in the US can moonlight as security guards WHILE WEARING THEIR UNIFORMS.

    This is common practice, Police at road construction sites are off duty and paid by the DPW not the Police dept. When the phone company needs to block traffic to replace a telephone pole, they have to hire off duty police to direct traffic. Police at rock concerts, or directing traffic after football games, are off duty police hired by the promoters, etc.

    Does noone else see the massive potential for abuse of power there?

    No. They are not being hired to be thugs, they are still acting as police officers and bound by the same rules of conduct. They are still police, it is just that for that time their salary is being paid by a private party, but that does not make that officer a “henchman”. If the policeman wasn’t hired by the producers for the screening, the producers could have still called the (on-duty) police and had PZ (or anyone else they want) removed from their private screening. Just as anyone throwing a party could call the police and have a “party-crasher” removed.

    Geeze, I don’t know why everyone is so upset about the whole off-duty cop thing. Imagine you rent the theatre for a wedding reception and someone uninvited wanders in refuses to leave. Don’t you think you should be able to call the police and have him removed? Now suppose your wedding involves a famous person that will incite a lot of gate crashing. Rather than have you calling every five minutes to have someone removed, the police require you to hire some off duty police so the rest of the force can do their regular jobs and not be tied up at your event. I do not see the “abuse of power” potential. They are being hired to be police, not leg-breakers.

    The officer is not to blame here, the producers are. Not because they didn’t have the right to exclude PZ (they did), but because it was just so stupid to do so.

  785. #792 blaggghhh
    March 21, 2008

    It’s odd to me that they expelled you but let your guest & family go in. I don’t see what good that does them. Nothing they do makes sense.

  786. #793 Raven
    March 21, 2008

    As someone who used to be a manager at a theater, many of them hire off-duty cops as security. Nothing weird at all about it being a cop – and once they’re hired by the company, they’re effectively private security in terms of what you can get them to do. They just, you know, can arrest someone if they have to.
    And it makes the poor theater staff’s lives so much easier. Just like it would yours if you needed to have someone removed for being a nuisance – which is your right on your property. It is, of course, important here that PZ wasn’t actively trying to protest or any such protected thing. Because he was actually trying to be a customer, the rules are different.

  787. #794 isles
    March 21, 2008

    Only in the ID movement do they have to shield the tender minds of their bleevers so assiduously from the assault of reason, personified by Big Bad PZ Myers!

  788. #795 M Goose
    March 21, 2008

    Jumpin’ Jehosefat! Nice work,PZ Myers. And thanks to the blogosphere for spreading it around. Meantime, I’m off to celebrate Flat Earth Friday, where the masses celebrate spring by sacrificing reason on the altar of faith. (In my case, it means having the first barbecue of the season.)

  789. #796 Keith Douglas
    March 21, 2008

    Yowza. This is nuts. Of course, I expect no end of misrepresentations from the godbotherers and fundies …

  790. #797 gir
    March 21, 2008
  791. #798 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    At any rate, Mark Mathis lied to me, too. He told me that “Crossroads” was a “working title” for the film.

    It was a working title – it worked to snooker people into the interviews.

    And then they accuse of Dawkins of “crashing” the screening and “working his way in”. Sheesh!

  792. #799 Kris Verburgh
    March 21, 2008

    Funny, but also a bit concerning. And mister Meyers seemed to be a decoy for Dawkins!

  793. #800 Icelander
    March 21, 2008

    I’d take it as a compliment: You’re a bigger threat to the ID crowd than even Richard Dawkins!

  794. #801 Davee C
    March 21, 2008

    Re documentary subterfuge, it’s not as though Dr Dawkins hasn’t done it himself:

    Richard Dawkins Comes to Call
    http://www.dailygrail.com/node/5817

  795. #802 phantomreader42
    March 21, 2008

    Saw this quote on the Dawkins site, used by a poster named Corylus:

    When men no longer have the least fear of saying something untrue, they very soon have no fear whatsoever of doing something unjust.

    ~Theodor Haecker

    Just so fitting. Not just for the IDiots running the screening, but for all their sycophants who can’t bring themselves to see any problem with the massive, obvious hypocrisy of this whole debacle.

    These people don’t show the slightest hint of remorse for making wild, false accusations against innocent people. Isn’t their imaginary god supposed to have some sort of problem with bearing false witness? Or do they just think it’s not really lying if you’re Lying For Jesus™?

  796. #803 Anthony
    March 21, 2008

    Excellent job! Keep up the good work PZ.

  797. #804 thorsten wulff
    March 21, 2008

    Perfect! Great story that saved my rainy Karfreitag afternoon, PZ.
    All the best from old europe ;))

  798. #805 Nan
    March 21, 2008

    Perfect. You made my day. Irony meters planet wide have maxed out.

  799. #806 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    So now you know what students and educators who are targeted because of their belief in open discussion of ID feel like. How appropriate.

  800. #807 Jay Rogers
    March 21, 2008

    As a big proponent of the film EXPELLED, I don’t see any irony here at all. Irony is when the expected is the opposite of the actual event.

    If anyone wants to see real irony and you want to watch the Myers and Dawkins clips that badly, you can just go to my blog.

    http://forerunner.com/blog

    I saw the movie on Tuesday and was given a DVD with over 30 minutes of raw clips. We were told as teachers to show it in class and use it as a debate opportunity for our students to discuss the issue of censorship, and so on. Of course, they want it to go to people who will promote it and get our friends to come out to see the movie. (Yes, it’s a vast right wing conspiracy!)

    The DVD has the infamous PZ Myers interview in which you say your goal is to destroy or marginalize religion. (If I was really smart I should have bought up 100 of these and sold them to evolutionists on EBay as “contraband.”)

    Movie producers often do promotional test screenings before the release. Certain types of people are invited and some are not.

    It would be no different if you tried to crash an advance test screening of Indiana Jones or Star Trek except the security would have been tighter. And yes, you should have been arrested if you trespassed in any private function.

    On the other hand, you are making a mountain out of a molehill, the clip you wanted to see is already on my website.

    What is ironic is that you can see the parts you really want to see the most — there are numerous clips out there already — and you are making it sound as though it’s a huge conspiracy to bar you from the debate.

    What is happening with EXPELLED though is that some movie reviewers want to crash the gates early so they can pan the film and pronounce it DOA — as did Roger Moore (no, not 007 — he would have gotten in) the Orlando Sentinel reviewer.

    Most reviewers who are allowed into advance screenings have the professional courtesy not to publish their reviews until the week the movie premieres. No such courtesy here. The political stakes are too high.

    The MAIN reason the media is not invited to these screenings is because the film is in raw form and is not ready for the general public yet. We saw a high-res DVD version that was not quite cinema quality.

    All the secrecy and the buzz is working toward a big box office. I know all you anti-ID-ers are warming your insides over this imagined “incident,” but how does it really work in your favor?

    Controversy sells. More people are going to see the movie as a result. That’s what you want?

    If I didn’t believe in a higher intelligent design, I’d see it as a great cosmic irony.

  801. #808 pam
    March 21, 2008

    oh.. this is so classic.. It amazes me what people will do in the name of fear……….. I will be giggling at the absurdity of this for along time. Oh and to be in the company of such a great man.. one would envy you….. if it wern’t a sin….;)

  802. #809 Andy N
    March 21, 2008

    It is snowing here at the moment, but I’m as warm as toast after reading this.

  803. #810 wheatdogg
    March 21, 2008

    Check this out. They say PZ had no ticket and Dawkins was crashing the party.
    http://www.expelledthemovie.com/chronicle.php?article=11

  804. #811 Matt
    March 21, 2008

    I must not be up on who these people are… but sure seems to be a popular topic and funny to most. Can anyone clue me in on what I’m missing?

  805. #812 Wolfhound
    March 21, 2008

    I love how a hypocritical piece of trash like Jay Rogers tries to spin this as a victory. And, DSM, when ID proponents who are merely advicating for “an open discussion” are escorted off of school grounds by law enforcement you MIGHT have a point.

  806. #813 Someone who doesn't care
    March 21, 2008

    Who is Richard Dawkins?

  807. #814 Nick K
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, what I wouldn’t give to see the security camera footage of this.

  808. #815 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    Most reviewers who are allowed into advance screenings have the professional courtesy not to publish their reviews until the week the movie premieres.

    PZ is a professional movie reviewer?

  809. #816 Jake
    March 21, 2008

    Oh my gosh!
    I actually snorted some water out of my nose when I read that!

  810. #817 Alex
    March 21, 2008

    That’s rich! Serves them right. Are their arguments so weak that they can’t afford to let anybody who hasn’t drunk their kool-aid see the movie?

  811. #818 lololololololol
    March 21, 2008

    What are you five years old? Grow up you have a daughter

  812. #819 Jay Rogers
    March 21, 2008

    Richard Dawkins crashes the party at a screening of “Expelled”
    By JEFFREY OVERSTREET
    Published: March 20, 2008

    I just received this email report from Looking Closer reader Stuart Blessman. He thought I’d find it interesting, and I certainly do. He also gave me permission to share it with you. So, here’s Stuart’s account:

    My name is Stuart Blessman and I’m a student at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities involved with a campus outreach ministry that’s associated with an on campus church, Maranatha Christian Fellowship. Our head pastor was recently offered two pairs of tickets to go see an advanced screening of Ben Stein’s “Expelled”, but had to instead pass the tickets to an associate pastor, who then offered one of them to me. So at 7:00 pm on Thursday my friend Grant and I got to go see the movie. Right away, let me just say that this is the Best Documentary of 2008…if it will get played. The basic premise of the movie is that Intelligent Design should be allowed equal footing as a teachable theory within academia. This movie is not an apology for Creation; pains are taken to distinguish Creation from Intelligent Design. This is also not a movie that bashes Evolutional Theory, although many rational arguments are brought up as to the validity of Evolutionary thought as well as the long-term consequences of an Evolutionary Worldview.

    The Associate Producer of the film, Mark Mathis, introduced the film as well as moderated for the quick Q&A following the film. The movie we saw was a rough Director’s Cut; at several moments things appeared to be out of sync, and occasionally archival historical footage appeared to “jump” on the screen. Mathis also mentioned that several music cues might change before the final cut, which is understandable since several high profile songs and artists are used in the film.

    The film can best be described as subtly clever and occasionally funny. Emotions are stirred up especially built around the movies overall theme*, and many scenes especially later in the movie might be difficult to watch based on one’s ethnic and religious background.

    But enough about the film – the real highlight of the evening occurred after the showing, during the Q&A. Mathis led this discussion, and the second question was asked by a surprise member of the audience: Richard Dawkins, author of “The God Delusion,” and arguably the biggest name in the movie other than Mr. Ben Stein himself. As this screening was by invitation only, Dawkins appearance was quite a surprise to both the audience and Mathis.

    Dawkins asked a simple question: Why was one of his colleagues interviewed in the movie denied a chance to come see this movie and protest it and in fact was escorted out by security prior to admittance to the theatre? The irony apparently escaped Mr. Dawkins that he himself was a gatecrasher to the movie and was uninvited; nevertheless, he wanted to know why his colleague was turned away even though he himself was admitted as were his colleague’s family.

    I just happened to be standing directly in line behind Dawkins’ academic colleague. Management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in. Management then approached the man, asked him if he had a ticket, and when he confirmed that he didn’t, they then escorted him off the premises. Nowhere was one of the film’s producers to be found, and the man certainly didn’t identify himself. If a producer had been nearby, it’s possible that he would have been admitted, but the theatre’s management didn’t want to take any chances.

    So ultimately Dawkins’ first complaint was irrelevant. His second complaint was that any statement he made in the film was in fact under the assumption that he was being interviewed by Ben Stein (and by Mark Mathis) for a film that was to take an even-handed look at the Intelligent Design/Evolution controversy. Unfortunately, the entire audience, minus Dawkins’ posse, agreed that that the film’s main point was that Intelligent Design should be taught in conjunction with Evolution.

    The Q&A then proceeded pretty uneventfully, with several of the questions addressed to Dawkins himself. Mathis and Dawkins also clearly had spoken on numerous occasions and appeared to continue an argument that they had started previously. The evening however was cut short by theatre management and an imminent showing of another movie in the same room.

    Ben Stein’s “Expelled” is one of the more evenhanded, clever, and well-produced documentaries currently on the market. While the Evolution/Intelligent Design debate can spark much emotion, anyone walking away from this film will be convinced that the merits of Intelligent Design should be on the same level playing field as Evolutionary Theory. This film is about the freedom of speech, the freedom of ideas and ability to express those ideas…not about whether God created the heavens and the earth.

    *SPOILER!! Proceed and highlight text below only if you want to know more about the film’s specific content.

  813. #820 Adam
    March 21, 2008

    wheatdogg,

    It looks like they just copied and pasted the blog post that was discussed earlier (http://lookingcloser.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/richard-dawkins-crashes-the-party-at-a-screening-of-expelled/)

  814. #821 Joshua Zelinsky
    March 21, 2008

    Christianity Today has an article about Dawkin’s attendance, but no mention of PZ’s expulsion. See http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2008/03/dawkins_crashes.html

  815. #822 Mike
    March 21, 2008

    Shoulda shot that popo in the face, knowwhat I’m sayin?

  816. #823 True Bob
    March 21, 2008

    Yes, Adam, they did, and worse Troll JR did that in the comments here.

  817. #824 Kevin
    March 21, 2008

    My name is Stuart Blessman:

    “Our head pastor was recently offered two pairs of tickets to go see an advanced screening of Ben Stein’s “Expelled”, but had to instead pass the tickets to an associate pastor, who then offered one of them to me. ”

    Oh, well, that clears it up then. except…

    “So at 7:00 pm on Thursday my boyfriend Grant and I got to go see the movie.” so… one ticket is good for 2 people? or are you saying one ticket is good for a couple?

    or that you made up the part about tickets?

  818. #825 Jay Rogers
    March 21, 2008

    Cheezits: PZ is a professional movie reviewer?
    **********

    The preceding paragraph said Roger Moore the Orlando Sentinel movie reviewer.

  819. #826 Tom-Tom
    March 21, 2008

    Oh my goodness!! I laughed so hard when I read this kim chi came flying out of my nose, and into the future.

  820. #827 phantomreader42
    March 21, 2008

    Liar Jay Rogers:

    It would be no different if you tried to crash an advance test screening of Indiana Jones or Star Trek except the security would have been tighter. And yes, you should have been arrested if you trespassed in any private function.

    There was no attempt to “crash” anything. Dr. Myers signed up on the Expelled website, using his real name. He explicitly stated that he would be bringing guests. He did not trespass, he was threatened with arrest for trying to attend a screening of a movie he was interviewed for under false pretenses, a screening for which he had registered using the website offered by the people who made the movie.

    You’re just making shit up. Isn’t your imaginary god supposed to have some sort of problem with bearing false witness?

    wheatdogg @ #805:

    Check this out. They say PZ had no ticket and Dawkins was crashing the party.
    http://www.expelledthemovie.com/chronicle.php?article=11

    No tickets were required. No “crashing” occurred. This has already been pointed out. The fact that no tickets are required was explicitly stated in the confirmation email PZ got when he signed up for the screening, using his real name, and making it clear he would be bringing guests. Can’t these creationist nutcases even keep their lies straight?

  821. #828 William Wallace
    March 21, 2008

    I hypothesize: We will see a Paul Allen funded rebuttal to Expelled, which cannot be done if Expelled flops.

    Which might explain why PZ and the PTN-syndicate (PT-TO-NCSE) is giving so much free publicity to the film.

  822. #829 Steve Courtright
    March 21, 2008

    Fun story, PZ, thanks for sharing it. And keep up the good work.

  823. #830 guthrie
    March 21, 2008

    Grover- what is wrong with pointing at idiots and laughing? Then explaining in mind numbing detail why they are idiots?

  824. #831 Damian
    March 21, 2008

    As a big proponent of the film EXPELLED blaming a scientific theory for genocide, and implicating the discover of that theory, even when the worlds best historians have shown the charge to be utterly false (and have even suggested that, in Hitler’s case, at least, his hatred of the Jews had far more to do with religion), I don’t see any irony here at all. Irony is when the expected is the opposite of the actual event.

    After that little fix, I think that I can agree with that.

    It would be no different if you tried to crash an advance test screening of Indiana Jones or Star Trek except the security would have been tighter. And yes, you should have been arrested if you trespassed in any private function.

    Only that they obtained the tickets in the same way that everyone else did. They followed procedure, so you really don’t have an argument. Of course, few people would disagree with the fact that the producers were within their right to do what they did. It is simply deliciously ironic, that’s all. Don’t worry yourself with such details, though.

    Most reviewers who are allowed into advance screenings have the professional courtesy not to publish their reviews until the week the movie premieres. No such courtesy here. The political stakes are too high.

    Ah, the old professional courtesy trick. So soon? An amateur, I tells ya!

  825. #832 Atheist
    March 21, 2008

    How secure are you in your beliefs that you need to shelter them from those who don’t believe?
    Discuss at Atheist Revolution Forum.

  826. #833 Joshua Zelinsky
    March 21, 2008

    Hmm, does the fact that PZ signed up with is actual name initially explain why they were looking for him and not Dawkins since Dawkins was just listed as a guest? Very likely if Dawkins had been separately registered they would have tried to kick him out as well.

  827. #834 Adrian
    March 21, 2008

    Over 800 comments in and not a single “don’t tase me, bro”? For shame!

    This made my morning. Good Friday indeed.

  828. #835 Harry
    March 21, 2008

    That is bloody brilliant. Way to take one for the team.

  829. #836 catta
    March 21, 2008

    Jay Rogers, just to clear this up for you: the “expected is the opposite of the actual event” when people who have registered to view a movie screening upon public invitation by the movie makers are expelled for the reason that they might dissent — when the producers are supposedly promoting the idea that nobody should be removed from a discussion on grounds of their views. You would expect that if they were serious about this idea, they’d go through with it escpecially where discussion about their own views is concerned. The opposite happened. This fits your definition of irony perfectly. The key here is that the screening was far removed from your usual test audience screening in that there was an open invitation, and both PZ and Dawkins complied with all requirements stated. If you think there are exceptions to the “all viewpoints allowed” rule, forget about ID being taught in public schools. If you think there should be no exceptions, protest the exclusion of people with dissenting views from open-invitation screenings by your heroes. You can’t have it both ways.

  830. #837 Mike
    March 21, 2008

    Then Dicky Dawkins shoulda jumped up and did a ninja karate backflip and gone so gangsta on they asses they woulda been eating lead enchiladas from he sawed off when they jawed off.

    Whatchoo think I be sayin all these years? Only hot lead sandwiches make these home slices bow down. Word.

  831. #838 ERV
    March 21, 2008

    Jay Rogers Rat– It would be no different if you tried to crash an advance test screening of Indiana Jones or Star Trek except the security would have been tighter.

    Funny– I got to see Lord of the Rings, Phantom Menace, etc weeks before everyone else, and I never needed to sign a nondisclosure agreement or had to hire police officers? Prescreenings are to test for editing mistakes and to pump up opening weekend numbers.

    Lie much, Creationist rat?

  832. #839 EC
    March 21, 2008

    You retards, Dawkins was in the movie, they probably didnt know who this ass clown blogger dickhead is.

  833. #840 Teircel
    March 21, 2008

    This IS priceless!

  834. #841 CalGeorge
    March 21, 2008

    Christianity Today:

    A critic of another kind “crashed” a screening in Minnesota on Thursday night–Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion and arguably the most outspoken critic of Intelligent Design and Creationism. Dawkins himself appears in the documentary–but claims he was duped into believing it was going to be an objective account of Darwinism vs. ID.

    Jeffrey Overstreet, a film critic for CT Movies, broke the news on his own blog Thursday night after receiving an e-mail from a college student who was at the screening.

    WTF? They are claiming that Overstreet posted on this before PZ?

    Yet another screw-up by a fact-challenged Christian outfit.

  835. #842 phantomreader42
    March 21, 2008

    Cowardheart’s paranoid delusions seem to be growing:

    Which might explain why PZ and the PTN-syndicate (PT-TO-NCSE) is giving so much free publicity to the film.

    So, now the vast criminal conspiracy that exists only in your hollow head has new members! Does it have any new evidence? Which is to say, any evidence at all?

    More questions you haven’t answered, and will most likely flee in terror from:
    1) Is it your claim that the NPR story you linked to (or at least your spin on it) is absolute truth, despite all evidence to the contrary, unless NPR retracts it?

    2) Does that apply to every NPR story, or only the ones that feed your persecution complex?

    3) Where’s your evidence that this “PT-mafia” you speak of actually exists outside your own delusional paranoid fantasies?

    4) Is the “PTN-syndicate” a new form of this delusion, or a separate fantasy, and do you have the slightest shred of evidence to support it?

    5) What do you think Dr. Myers “did” to get himself kicked out of the screening of your propaganda film (given that every rationale you gave for his removal has been shown to be laughably false), and where is your evidence in support of this?

    6) Since when do “don’t be stupid” and “don’t lie through your teeth” constitute an “ideological test”?

    7) Isn’t your imaginary god supposed to have some sort of problem with bearing false witness?

  836. #843 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    Cheezits: PZ is a professional movie reviewer?
    **********

    The preceding paragraph said Roger Moore the Orlando Sentinel movie reviewer.

    That’s all very nice, but what does that have to do with PZ? Why was he kicked out?

  837. #844 catta
    March 21, 2008

    You retards, Dawkins was in the movie, they probably didnt know who this ass clown blogger dickhead is.

    Hate to break to ya, EC, but PZ was in the movie as well.

  838. #845 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    And finally at comment #760, the whingers come in!

    “So now you know what students and educators who are targeted because of their belief in open discussion of ID feel like. ”

    You mean all those poor persecuted IDers actually laugh their heads off when we criticize their uninformed beliefs? Well, we better keep at it then! The world needs laughter!

    To clarify really quickly for the assorted gawpers, the issue is not one of legality, since they are, as far as I can tell, within their rights to refuse to let people in, and PZ was well within his rights to try to get in in the first place. The issue is that by forcibly denying entry to Dr. Myers, the Expelled team is proving themselves to be a load of WANKERS. And by letting Dawkins in, they’re proving themselves to be STUPID wankers.

    If anyone wants to challenge my point about their wankitude, they’re welcome to try. Or they could just keep wanking.

  839. #846 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Does this guy seriously think an idiot like Ben Stein is comparable to an eminent scientist like Richard Dawkins?

    Maybe he meant that Ben Stein is a bigger name than Richard Dawkins in the same sense the Paris Hilton is a bigger name than Richard Dawkins. It’s all about fame, not qualifications, intelligence, integrity… etc. :-/

    Grover (#760): You have to understand something. It’s totally about “sharing the knowledge,” but the people who need it most spit it back as if it were a forkfull of rotting fish, and damn the would-be educator to hell for the sin of attempting to educate. This gets frustrating and predictable after a while – hence the hostility. Also, the ID crowd is infamous for its intellectual vapidity and dishonest tactics. There’s a long history here.

    Your concerns are noted, but carry limited weight because they fail to address or even recognize important facets of the bigger picture.

  840. #847 Damian
    March 21, 2008

    Contrast Stuart Blessman’s backtracking, once he was called on his blatant dishonesty:

    “Yes, you registered online, but the initial invitation was by invite only. You registered who was coming in your invited group, not just “first come, first serve.”

    And since I was literally 3 feet away from Myers when he was “expelled,” I heard every word. It was obvious he was being kicked out by theatre management because he was not invited nor was he on the pre-submitted list. He didn’t cause a disruption per se; he was kindly escorted out.

    with:

    I just happened to be standing directly in line behind Dawkins’ academic colleague. Management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in. Management then approached the man, asked him if he had a ticket, and when he confirmed that he didn’t, they then escorted him off the premises. Nowhere was one of the film’s producers to be found, and the man certainly didn’t identify himself.

    So, he was “literally 3 feet away from Myers when he was “expelled,”, and could hear, “every word”, and yet, he couldn’t quite make his mind up whether PZ “didn’t cause a disruption”, or whether the “management of the movie theatre saw a man apparently hustling and bothering several invited attendees, apparently trying to disrupt the viewing or sneak in.”

    I think that I will go with the four or five accounts of the people that I trust, to be honest.

    By the way, Wesley Elsberry, from Panda’s Thumb, has conclusively shown that the domain name, “Expelled”, was bought before the interviews with Dawkins, PZ, and Eugenie Scott.

    They did not, at any point, buy the domain for “Crossroads”. Fancy that!

  841. #848 Lazarus
    March 21, 2008

    You can never have an open discussion with someone that is blinded by faith. Religion blinds so much more efficiently than anything. My greatest fear is that in America we have lost our ability to reason.

  842. #849 phantomreader42
    March 21, 2008

    EC the idiot:

    You retards, Dawkins was in the movie, they probably didnt know who this ass clown blogger dickhead is.

    catta @ #839:
    Hate to break to ya, EC, but PZ was in the movie as well.

    And to further compound EC’s idiocy, if they didn’t know who he was, how could they identify him by name to throw him out?

  843. #850 EC
    March 21, 2008

    Maybe they didn’t recognize him, most of us can pick richard dawkins out fairly quick.

  844. #851 Kim van der Linde
    March 21, 2008

    Yeah, this is the best thing they could do to themselves. They probably expected PZ, but did not think about Dawkins beforehand because he lives in the UK. Very good.

  845. #852 Publius
    March 21, 2008

    Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

    “Security” is so flawed.

  846. #853 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    Irony is when the expected is the opposite of the actual event.

    So, what is it when someone with intelligence gets expelled from a movie called “Expelled – No Intelligence Allowed”?

    You’re right, that IS what we should have expected! :-D

  847. #854 Siggers Nation
    March 21, 2008

    The only thing that could have been better would be to have a third stage uranium-tipped sabot comprised of Richard Dawson injected into the theater.

    Survey says!

  848. #855 BlueIndependent
    March 21, 2008

    @ #806:

    Matt, what’s going on is the unwashed, ignorant masses of Bible-bashing creationists/intelligent design proponents put together a turd of a movie that PZ Myers has been discussing at length over the last several months. Last night PZ and family, along with other notables as internationally recognized biologist Richard Dawkins, went to go see this Expelled movie. But the movie’s producers singled out PZ, said he tried to “crash” the premiere in Minneapolis by sneaking in “without a ticket” (to a ticketless event), and they let Dawkins in apparently accidentally, while claiming the same (that Dawkins was crashing without a ticket).

    The joke is they let the “enemy” in to review their tripe while somewhat misfiring their censoring reflexivity upon a lesser known critic in PZ.

    Noticing their huge gaffe, they have since begun the campaign to cover up their screw up by claiming Dawkins got in uninvited (even though there’s a list with his name onn it, as well as PZ’s), and that PZ and crew were there to rabble-rouse.

  849. #856 The J Train
    March 21, 2008

    I’m always proud to be on your blogroll, but never more than today. This made my week.

  850. #857 Steven
    March 21, 2008

    Hilarious and stupid. What I don’t get is that a policeman stopped him. Did the movie producer own the cinema hall or something? As far as I know they don’t have the ability to stop people going the cinema. Were did he go to see it?

  851. #858 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    Do you know if their is another screening? I want you to try to get in again, but with a more expansive guest list. What follows is my sample posse.

    Get all four horsemen- Dawkins, Dennett, Harris, & Hitchens. Then round up more skeptics- Shermer, Randi, Penn, & Teller. Check Amazon to find some rationalist authors. Throw some ScienceBloggers in for good measure. I just want to see the heads of the Expelled people asplode.

    Feel free to add to that if you wish.

  852. #859 Gus
    March 21, 2008

    As funny as this is, I’m disturbed that there was a screening of this in my city.

  853. #860 Jay Rogers
    March 21, 2008

    So now we are arguing over the definition of the word “crashed” and whether it was a “by invitation only” event?

    Don’t forget to see Dawkins and Myers clips from the movie here:

    http://forerunner.com/blog

    It’s by invitation only! You are all invited!

  854. #861 Gary Hurd
    March 21, 2008

    Bravo PZ. That was the best laugh I had in three days.

    Thanks!

  855. #862 Michelle
    March 21, 2008

    Go folks! if we try hard we can make it to the 1000 comments! :P

  856. #863 catta
    March 21, 2008

    Er… Jay? I know YouTube is hard, but you realize that you can’t show embedded video of friends-only videos? Trying to emulate the movie’s “publicity” style on YouTube? =)

  857. #864 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    So now we are arguing over the definition of the word “crashed” and whether it was a “by invitation only” event?

    I can’t help it if creationist morons used those phrases. :-D PZ and RD were “invited” same as anyone else.

  858. #865 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    And, DSM, when ID proponents who are merely advicating for “an open discussion” are escorted off of school grounds by law enforcement you MIGHT have a point.

    Posted by: Wolfhound

    Well, that would require them to be allowed on school grounds in the first place…

    A little hyperbole, but what is the difference between banning them from school grounds and banning their freedom to share their ideas from school grounds? I see no difference.

  859. #866 Jack Rawlinson
    March 21, 2008

    “Enjoy the smug satisfaction in knowing that you’re pretty much behaving exactly like the fundamentalists that got you so angry in the first place.”

    And they’re still shocked that we keep calling them idiots. Awesome.

  860. #867 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Which might explain why PZ and the PTN-syndicate (PT-TO-NCSE) is giving so much free publicity to the film.

    Oh, my. Is William Walleye at it again?

  861. #868 Logicel
    March 21, 2008

    I am well satiated with this delicious main course of irony. However, I want dessert now. I am expecting an airy, vacuous mouse covered with masses of imitation whipped cream, topped with a red, red, red, wrinkled sour cherry of shame–better known as some frantic whizzing-of-wheels-stuck-in-sand media spin by the IDiots.

  862. #869 MartinM
    March 21, 2008

    So now we are arguing over the definition of the word “crashed” and whether it was a “by invitation only” event?

    Well, yes. We’re doing so because you suggested that PZ was trespassing at a private function to which he was not invited. Since this is not in fact true, others corrected you. Why do you find this surprising?

  863. #870 MartinM
    March 21, 2008

    A little hyperbole, but what is the difference between banning them from school grounds and banning their freedom to share their ideas from school grounds? I see no difference.

    1) Preventing people from teaching ID in science class is not the same as ‘banning them from school grounds.’

    2) Teaching one’s ideas in science class is a merit-based privilege, not a right. ID proponents have failed to earn that privilege, but ask for special treatment anyway.

  864. #871 Richard Thomas
    March 21, 2008

    Creationists are beyond any chance of rational discourse about the evidence behind the theory of evolution and are incapable of participating in anything but soundbites where no real meat can be presented to show the vacuousness of their position.

    Had Mr. Stein or any creationist any real balls they would sit down for a real discussion of science in a national forum where each side gives at least a 2 hour presentation of the science with only people that are on their side presenting the evidence that they have to offer.
    This could be presented in separate divisions wherein each side refers only to the science they have at hand and with no reference to the other sides position or people.

    Following this half hour segments could be put together in an ongoing manner to rebut one another if there was anything left to rebut. So any creationists out there that are willing to talk to people like Ben Stein about actually making a case or do you need to remain in the shadows full of fear at actual science?

  865. #872 CalGeorge
    March 21, 2008

    #855, Jay Rogers’ blog:

    “Check back for my random thoughts on eschatology, world missions, God’s Law and Society, theonomy, Christian Reconstruction, pro-life activism, evangelism testimonies, Neo-Puritan theology and social theory, revival and spiritual awakening, church history, and so on.”

    I’d rather watch paint dry.

  866. #873 Elyse
    March 21, 2008

    That is too funny. Those poor people, they don’t know which end is their ass and which is their face. You must have felt pretty ballin’ in front of Dawkins though. You know, I bet he was just a little jealous. In fact, that’s just a little embarrassing for him. On the other hand, what better person to screen the movie than Richard Dawkins?

    I love your blog, by the way. Congratulations!

  867. #874 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Jay:

    So now we are arguing over the definition of the word “crashed” and whether it was a “by invitation only” event?

    No. We’re arguing, not definitions, but the dishonest use of both phrases by the organizers of the event and by the many shameless liars who claim that an event accessible to anyone who pre-registers for admission can possibly be crashed by someone who pre-registered for admission as instructed by the organizers of the event.

    If you persist in misunderstanding this simple distinction, then you have joined the ranks or the shameless liars. At this point, it’s up to you. Please make the right choice.

  868. #875 Lionel A
    March 21, 2008

    Grover #760

    If your people have to resort to strong arm tactics in order to exclude one of the participants in the documentary from watching its screening then the whole ID movement deserves the ridicule it gets.

    That Richard Dawkins got through IS the funniest thing that I have heard in a long, long time.

    Ruppert #763

    What are these ‘illegal things’ that you mention? Besides I see little sign of any of us whining, quit the reverse.

    As for the ‘movie’, as you quaintly call it, having the facts then if they did have the facts when making this documentary then why did they not base it upon any such facts instead of creating a story of chronological impossibility? The answers to that question will inform you as to why the Dover case was lost by the IDiots.

  869. #876 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    I have still yet to see an answer to the question of why they wouldn’t want someone who is in the movie to see it let alone why they wouldn’t want anyone to see it.

    I know it’s release is still a ways off but you’d think if they were confident in their material they’d be ok with critics.

    Nope. Because they can’t send a movie down the memory hole after it’s been let out.

  870. #877 Jason Black
    March 21, 2008

    As much as I’d love to see the Four Horsemen, Penn and Teller, Shermer, and Myers crash the film, I actually think it would be counterproductive.

    If one guy goes to see it and they block him, it is because they see him as a threat. But if a multitude gathered outside, that would just give the movie free publicity a la “See the atheists trying to censor us!”. It would just give the semblance of legitimacy.

    What this movie needs is more of what PZ did. Laugh about it. And that’s pretty much all we really have to do.

    Let’s face it: the point the movie makes consists of repeatedly insinuating that those who disagree with their point of view are Nazis, and the supporting evidence consists of creative edits of interviews with respectable scientists–edits that make these scientists seem to say things no self-respecting human being would ever say.

    They have also set up some lofty ideal as the theme of the movie–that all points of view should be argued in the classroom–which they repeatedly contradict by publicly demonizing scientists that happen to be atheists, and (as we have seen with PZ) excluding all dissenters and conscientious objectors from the conversation.

    No, I don’t think there’s any need for a big to-do about the movie. It is intelligently designed, after all. And it’s designed well enough to expose perfectly the lack of intelligence behind its design.

    I’m more than content to laugh about this movie and watch the fireworks, kind of like Nero fiddling while Rome burned.

  871. #878 Tegumai Bopsulai, FCD
    March 21, 2008

    Real Time With Bill Maher
    Fri, Mar 21

    Actor Jon Hamm; Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.); author P.J. O’Rourke; biologist Richard Dawkins.

  872. #879 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    grrrrrrr

    it’s = its

  873. #880 debbyo
    March 21, 2008

    Hilarious.

    But I am also jealous you were with Richard Dawkins, my hero. And it brought back bad memories. Mum and dad went on a tour (I think in Egypt)a few years ago. They made friends with a “lovely couple” who they invited to come and stay next time they were in Australia. He was clever, they said, some sort of professor. But, mum said, I don’t know what went wrong. I was talking to him about Numerology and he seemed a bit cross about it. Geez I was only making conversation – with him being a scientist and all I thought he might be interested in talking about numbers. Anyway, I doubt he’ll be coming now. I don’t know if you ever heard of him: Richard Dawkins.

    Well, she gave birth to me. I can hardly hold a grudge for life. But say hi to Richard for me and tell him that I have talked mum out of numerology since then. So can he make friends with my mum again?

  874. #881 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    Preventing people from teaching ID in science class is not the same as ‘banning them from school grounds.’

    Posted by: MartinM

    They don’t even have to be teaching it in science class. ID is essentially banned from being openly discussed anywhere on campus.

  875. #882 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    So funny to see this thread still going strong. Even funnier (much funnier) are the clowns behind this movie. I’m sure they meant to throw PZ out all along and then cower in the corner (you know, like Smeagol did to Sam on the mountaintop) and cry, “Stops him! He’s a meanie! He wants to hurts us!” And their Christian base will buy it, too, because they love shit like that.

    They have only one card to play–the paranoia card. And it’s not even a strategy; it’s a reflex! LOL!

  876. #883 Skwee
    March 21, 2008

    Jason- they’re going to claim we censor them anyway, so why not have fun while we’re at it?

  877. #884 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    They don’t even have to be teaching it in science class. ID is essentially banned from being openly discussed anywhere on campus.

    Um way to throw the overly emotional drama in there. Oh and wrong.

    Please give me the policy showing that it can not be discussed on campuses… anywhere.

    GO ahead.

  878. #885 bobg
    March 21, 2008

    Paul:

    Spectacular! I just hope you didn’t injure anything from laughing so hard.

    Folks who wanted a lawsuit:
    Seriously what good do you think that would do, even if Paul were to win? It’d be civil case, and he’d be looking at getting his ‘damages’ back. What, exactly, are his ‘damages’? That he didn’t get in to see a terrible movie that he didn’t have to pay for in the first place? Oh the trauma. Pain and suffering of being discriminated against? What dollar value do you think would be set for that?

    Now if it were me who’d been barred, it might make some sense. Since I’m of no reknown, the suit would bring the perfidy to light, even if I didn’t get more than my lawyer’s fees back.

    As it is, the ‘Expelled’ folks actions _did_ get brought to light, rapidly and widely. They speedily demonstrated themselves to be:
    hypocrites
    liars
    absurd

    The last is particularly valuable. In addition to the Voltaire quote above regarding his prayer, there’s the comment “Sometimes the best argument is a belly laugh.”

    This is a belly laugh for anybody not already committed to support the movie, one that can readily be shared by the folks in the ‘middle’ who tend to buy the ‘teach both sides’ arguments. A lawsuit would only distract.

  879. #886 Pierre
    March 21, 2008

    The whole thing is funny, indeed, and I think PZ did the right thing by not resisting. It shows clearly how noble we atheists can be, when we acknowledge with a smile the stupidity of the creationists. By just saying “OK, so you don’t want me here, I’ll leave”, PZ made his point clearly without getting involved in annoying, uncertain legal matters. A noble gesture, as I said.

    I started reading this thread last night when there were already 250 comments. After I was done with them, I refreshed and got 400. So I kept reading, refreshed, and found the count was at 444. Decided to go to bed. And now there are 804 comments… woh. Impressive.

  880. #887 George Wolf
    March 21, 2008

    As I said on Richard Dawkins’ web sight, your tactic deserves a name.

    I suggest Turning the Other Geek.

  881. #888 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    ID is essentially banned from being openly discussed anywhere on campus.

    Yes, you’re right! Just like it’s banned from being openly discussed anywhere on the internet!

    *eyeroll*

    ID is not taught as a science because it’s not a science. People are free to discuss it as much as they like.

    Next strawman?

  882. #889 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    Um way to throw the overly emotional drama in there. Oh and wrong.

    Please give me the policy showing that it can not be discussed on campuses… anywhere.

    GO ahead.

    Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

  883. #890 Shirley Knott
    March 21, 2008

    Re: #883
    Because there is no content?
    Because it is all a lie, and a scam, as has been discussed on campus and off for years now?

    no hugs for thugs,
    Shirley Knott

  884. #891 Ian
    March 21, 2008

    Isn’t Dawkins working on his new book “Only a Theory” right now? If he hasn’t finished it yet, I’m sure we’ll see something about this in there.

    But what a stinking bunch of festering trash these IDiots are!

    Teach the controversy?

    Let us have a fair say in your science class, but when one of your scientists wants to come see a movie in which he’s taking part, we’ll get some thug to toss him out?

    Just how utterly and hopelessly pathetic can these people become? I guess there are no limits now.

    The story didn’t strike me as that funny but reading everyone’s comments here definitely brought out the giggles! Thanks for an amazing blog, PZ.

  885. #892 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    ID is not taught as a science because it’s not a science. People are free to discuss it as much as they like.

    Posted by: Kseniya

    There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science. Who are you to say they’re wrong? And same question to you as above: if people are free to discuss ID as much as they like, then why isn’t it?

  886. #893 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    Because it’s stupid.

  887. #894 TBTB
    March 21, 2008

    That was hilarious! Incredible!

  888. #895 jessica
    March 21, 2008

    “There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science. Who are you to say they’re wrong?”

    It’s not a falsifiable hypothesis. Therefore it cannot be scientifically supported. Why can’t you knuckle-draggers understand this?

    BTW, PZ, I haven’t laughed like this since the Pivar incident. FREE PZ! Ben Stein is a crackpot!

  889. #896 jim H
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, the irony on the Expelled blog:

    “It’s (EXPELLED) going to appeal strongly to the religious, the paranoid, the conspiracy theorists, and the ignorant — which means they’re going to draw in about 90% of the American market.”
    -Atheist blogger and fabulist PZ Myers, on a film he has not yet seen.

    (and we won’t let him see)

  890. #897 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    I think you can probably answer your own question.

  891. #898 dsmvwld
    March 21, 2008

    Re: #883
    Because there is no content?
    Because it is all a lie, and a scam, as has been discussed on campus and off for years now?

    Because it’s stupid.

    And “reasoning” like that is why there is a movie like “Expelled.” Thank you both for your honest responses.

  892. #899 Jorge
    March 21, 2008

    hahaha That was funny. Those creationists are really stupid.

  893. #900 SteveM
    March 21, 2008

    We’re arguing, not definitions, but the dishonest use of both phrases by the organizers of the event and by the many shameless liars who claim that an event accessible to anyone who pre-registers for admission can possibly be crashed by someone who pre-registered for admission as instructed by the organizers of the event.

    Yes. Notice how the IDiots stress the fact that Myers and Dawkins “had no ticket and were not invited”, while conveniently omitting the fact that no one needed a ticket nor an invitation. Just a pre-registration on the website which PZ did for himself and Dawkins. This way they can claim to be absolutely truthful. Ever hear of “sin of omission”?

  894. #901 Richard Harris
    March 21, 2008

    dsmvwld, Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    Because ID may be summed up as GODDIDIT. ID’s magic, not science. It’s for the closed minds infected by superstition.

  895. #902 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    And “reasoning” like that is why there is a movie like “Expelled.” Thank you both for your honest responses.

    No there is the movie Expelled because you types are famous for your persecution complexes. There is no persecution here it’s about science and output.

    There is no scientific output from the Cdesign proponentsist crowd. Period. The only output is a marketing campaign and this is exactly that.

  896. #903 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    Oh wait… now it’s “taught and discussed” … a moment ago it was “discussed.” Which is it?

    There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science. Who are you to say they’re wrong?

    Oh, now it’s about me? LOL

    Define “plenty.” More than two? Yes, but the number of scientists who disagree is – to put it mildly – overwhelming. However, the fact that ID is not considered to be a science is not because it has failed to win a populartity contest, it’s because it has failed to qualify as a science by any meaningful set of criteria.

  897. #904 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    Here’s a clue for you, dsm: PZ Myers discusses ID in his classes EVERY YEAR. And his students discuss it back. And they all discuss and have a grand old time. That alone brings the lie to your grandiose claims of widespread censorship. Hell, just talking about ID with your fellow students on the campus quad during lunchtime and not being dragged away by security would bring the lie to the statement you made in comment #875.

    But feel free to move the goalposts if you wish.

  898. #905 Lionel A
    March 21, 2008

    Andrew #773

    I’m appalled that (according to the comments here) police in the US can moonlight as security guards WHILE WEARING THEIR UNIFORMS. Bloody hell. Does no one else see the massive potential for abuse of power there?

    You may be discomfited to learn that private security and private military is a fast growing sector in the US with Haliburton and Blackwater in the lead, that latter being the progeny of Christian fundamentalist Erik Prince.

    It does not take much intelligence to fathom where some of the money that supports the ID lobby and also its security apparatus comes from.

  899. #906 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science.

    Biologists? People who actually work in the field?

    Your statement is as truthful as the other crap you guys say:

    There’s a big debate–no there isn’t.

    The theory is in danger–no it isn’t.

    Evolution contradicts the Second Law of Thermodynamics–no it doesn’t.

    There are no transitional fossils—yes there are.

    Radiocarbon dating has been proven to be useless–no it hasn’t

    Etc. etc. etc.

  900. #907 Jason Black
    March 21, 2008

    “Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?”

    Because it’s not science (The “theory” is not falsifiable, so it can be proven neither right nor wrong), that there is no evidence that supports it that cannot be explained with the existing theory, because concepts that “prove” it do not stand up unless you start with accepting ID as true (which is a cyclical argument, a failure in logic), and because it opens the door for whatever instructor teaches it to use it as a soapbox to push his or her own religious beliefs on the students.

    Aside from that, the understandings that we have gained through testing and using the theory of evolution have brought us great benefits and helped us to understand ourselves and our world better. But ID doesn’t do that. It doesn’t grant that possibility of asking more questions; anything unexplained is easily (and lazily) slopped down as “goddidit”, effectively nullifying the whole concept of education.

    ID rewards maintaining mystery rather than the noble pursuit of seeking answers. The results of ID in classrooms will not lead to breakthroughs in science, in medicine, or even in the humanities. In fact, the humanities suffer greatest from ID because it denies the most basic truths about our origins and the makeup of our bodies and therefore our minds.

    This is an aside, but please think about the religious groups that insist that clinical depression or disease can be “prayed away”. By cutting the diseases of the mind and body from their biological and chemical origins, these groups do not treat the actual origins of the pain and prolong the patient’s suffering. And then they blame the suffering on the patient’s lack of faith. That is not helping anyone, but I’ll finish up my point:

    That is why ID is not taught on campuses. There’s nothing preventing its discussion, and in fact it is discussed often by instructors, students, and overzealous washed-out actors. But the fact is that ID is an idea without evidence, without falsifiability, and without any real benefit to humanity–in short, it is not taught because it is an idea with no redeeming qualities.

  901. #908 Geral
    March 21, 2008

    I don’t understand the logic of them expelling you. You’ll undoubtedly rip it a good one in a month, why delay the inevitable?

  902. #909 Damian
    March 21, 2008

    Rev. BigDumbChimp said:

    I have still yet to see an answer to the question of why they wouldn’t want someone who is in the movie to see it let alone why they wouldn’t want anyone to see it.

    I hope that I am wrong, and I am not sure if it’s a problem, anyway, but I am starting to suspect that it may have something to do with that account of the events from Stuart Blessman. He had sent that to the movie review site – which seems to be an off-shoot of the “Christian Today” site – within an hour of the end of the movie, perhaps less.

    That dishonest account, which he has totally contradicted, as I have shown earlier in this thread, is now spreading around various Christian sites, including the Expelled site. To Christians, it seems, that has become the definitive account of what happened (and it obviously portrays PZ in a bad light).

    I doubt that PZ will care, but it all seems to be rather convenient, as well as predictable.

  903. #910 Robert
    March 21, 2008

    Hmmm, no cop’s name, no video, no witnesses… And we should believe this story because…?

    Color me skeptical…

  904. #911 C Murray
    March 21, 2008

    There is no greater truth than this.

    Any theory or belief which does not stand criticism is obviously unworthy of criticism.

    Choose religion, global warming, gravity or how to make creme brulee. If its proponents say it cannot be examined, argued, dissected or reviewed it is because they know it is flawed.

    This should be the motto of all scientist or all who love thought.

    “QUESTION EVERYTHING”

  905. #912 Apikoros
    March 21, 2008

    Hilarious!!

    I only wish they HAD gone in with flashlights and fetched out Dr. Dawkins. No disrespect, PZ, but he is a bit more famous than you and that might have gotten coverage on the cable news shows (unless some Democrat somewhere was having the sex.)

    Please hurry up with the book, PZ! Think of how this could boost your sales!

  906. #913 Elwood Herring
    March 21, 2008

    I don’t usually post on blogs unless I’ve got something to say, but in this case I’ll make an exception if only to add to the number of posts saying:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

  907. #914 CalGeorge
    March 21, 2008

    #886: “There are plenty of scientists who consider ID to be science.”

    It’s a thought experiment. Nothing more. Propagated by an organization funded principally by ONE man who wants to shove his ignorance down our throats.

    I.D.’s failings have been pointed out in court, in the classroom, in books, and in the blogosphere. Repeatedly.

    Examine the facts, will you, and stop making meaningless assertions.

  908. #915 Ian Maddox
    March 21, 2008

    @ 855:

    Unless the clip to which you refer is the “Sorry, but this video is no longer available” YouTube featured at the top of your blog, you’re lying.

    @ 853:

    My thought was to have everyone sign up with their own names, but show up with PZ masks on.

    @ EC:

    You’re annoying and nonsensical. Please stop using our pixels and go away.

  909. #916 Ian Maddox
    March 21, 2008

    Whoops… Ignore the above, I got ninja’d x50.

  910. #917 Sven DiMilo
    March 21, 2008

    if people are free to discuss ID as much as they like, then why isn’t it?

    Yeah! And if it’s not, then as much as people like, why not discuss them does it? Answer that one!

    Actually, ID is discussed all the time in college courses, and in biology courses as well as in philosophy and, no doubt, religion courses. It’s used mostly as an example, in trying to teach people how to “think like a scientist” by exposing them to the actual process, of how not to do it. It’s a widely used bad example of fake science.
    And while it’s true that there are a few trained scientists who also espouse beliefs in ID, they do not espouse ID for scientific reasons but for other reasons, usually at base religious.

  911. #918 Sastra
    March 21, 2008

    dsmvwld #883 wrote:

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    ID cannot be taught as a valid or even “competing” science theory in the classroom because it has not been properly formed, researched, or supported according to the criteria of ordinary science. In this sense, it is on the same level as astrology. Astrology doesn’t have the evidence behind it. So if a college or university tried to teach astrology as a legitimate science, an “alternative view” of astronomy, they would lose credibility. Same for sponsoring pro-astrology speakers, as part of a science emporium.

    But you can have astrology discussed in history or philosophy class. You can have astrology clubs. You can have astrology talked about in the cafeteria and dorms.

    Don’t conflate being “taught in the classroom” with “being discussed on campuses.” You seem to imply that students are being thrown out of the student union cafe if anyone ‘overhears’ them.

  912. #919 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    If its proponents say it cannot be examined, argued, dissected or reviewed it is because they know it is flawed.

    Creationism/intelligent design has been all those things–that is the reason it is not taught as science.

  913. #920 Joe Clark
    March 21, 2008

    Since when, in a democratic nation, must one “sign in and show ID” to watch a movie?

  914. #921 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, so ID can be taught and discussed on campuses? So then why isn’t it?

    I guess there is no point in getting you to prove that it isn’t allowed to be *discussed*, is there?

    ID theory isn’t taught in science class because – and this is the big secret that the ID proponents don’t tell you – there is NO SUCH THEORY. They have lots of proponents, lawyers, and lobbyists, but few if any researchers or theorists. Try to get someone to state the theory of ID, and it will almost invariably be some variation of “X is so complex I don’t see how it could have evolved”.

    A few have tried to go farther and prove that X (the bacterial flagellum or whatever) couldn’t have evolved. So far, such attempts have failed, but that is beside the point. Because even if it succeeded, all it would accomplish is to disprove some facet of *evolution*. ID is all about *evolution*, holes in evolution, “strengths and weaknesses of evolution”, alternative to evolution. It is not a theory in its own right. Without evolution, there is no ID.

    That’s not to say that there couldn’t be such a theory. But nobody seems to be putting any effort into developing one.

  915. #922 Geral
    March 21, 2008

    Hmmm, no cop’s name, no video, no witnesses… And we should believe this story because…?

    Color me skeptical…

    Because PZ would skip the movie, in which he stars, to harass a cop and get thrown out. Have you looked at the picture of the man? No offense PZ, but he’s a balding, overweight academic who is a professor at a state University.

    Somehow, I don’t see him as the trouble type.

  916. #923 Lurky
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, how I laughed!

    #840 Sums it up perfectly.

  917. #924 scote
    March 21, 2008

    So now we are arguing over the definition of the word “crashed” and whether it was a “by invitation only” event?
    Don’t forget to see Dawkins and Myers clips from the movie here:
    http://forerunner.com/blog
    It’s by invitation only! You are all invited!
    Posted by: Jay Rogers | March 21, 2008 11:35 AM

    Hmm…They refuse to release the entirety of the interviews but they give DVD’s of selected clips to yahoos like you.

    As to “crashed,” you know full well that **signing up on a public website under your real name and being sent a confirmation email** cannot possibly be considered crashing an invitation only event. That is not crashing and the event was not “invitation only.”

  918. #925 Ian Maddox
    March 21, 2008

    @ 903:

    There are bloggers on both sides of this debate posting about the farce PZ experienced. The truth of the matter is not open to debate. Unfortunately, truth doesn’t really seem to faze some people…

    It happened. The ID contingent have egg on their faces and are wildly prevaricating to minimize the damage. Color you foolish.

  919. #926 Kevin
    March 21, 2008

    PZ! You can’t hide the truth!

    “The Truth”

  920. #927 Elwood Herring
    March 21, 2008

    Jason Black @ 900: Excellent explanation. Of course it has to be explained again and again and never seems to sink in.

    “Never underestimate the power of human stupidity” – Heinlein

  921. #928 Rebecca
    March 21, 2008

    The goons of Expelled might offer advice on how to deal with reason to the People’s Republic of China… because propaganda directed towards Tibet’s peace movement almost always makes them appear more ridiculous and insane.

    http://www.dalailama.com/news.htm

  922. #929 Kseniya
    March 21, 2008

    Hmmm, no cop’s name, no video, no witnesses… And we should believe this story because…? Color me skeptical…

    Sorry, I can’t find quite the right color in my paintbox.

    There were witnessess. Some have posted right here on this thread, and you’ll fine links to other accounts also posted here.

    I guess “Glancing at something and forming an opinion without doing even a trivial amount of research or investigation” is what passes for skepticism these days.

  923. #930 gregwrld
    March 21, 2008

    Good work, PZ! I’m looking forward to Richard Dawkins comments.
    And the comments of the creos here are so clueless – no surprise there.

  924. #931 Joe.B
    March 21, 2008

    You’ve successfully laughed me into tears PZ.

  925. #932 Mark
    March 21, 2008

    Hi–I’m not an attorney, but if you want to pursue legal action against the theater, or the producer — think of the PR! — I’d be happy to help out from here in California. I can make phone calls, etc, email, etc…

  926. #933 bourgeois_rage
    March 21, 2008

    Awesome. Hilarious. Thank you for this, PZ.

  927. #934 Mark
    March 21, 2008

    I mean, I know the Mall of America is private property, etc., and so is the movie theater, etc., but again, think of the PR!

  928. #935 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    That dishonest account, which he has totally contradicted, as I have shown earlier in this thread, is now spreading around various Christian sites, including the Expelled site. To Christians, it seems, that has become the definitive account of what happened (and it obviously portrays PZ in a bad light).

    It’s really no shock that a lie from the Cdesign proponentsists camp is what is being spread. It’s par for the course for them.

    Poor baby Jesus. Crying by himself over in the corner.

  929. #936 Hey guys
    March 21, 2008

    Can you tell me a basic book that would help me get started on evolution? Just curious. Thanks.

  930. #937 Janine, ID
    March 21, 2008

    Poor baby Jesus. Crying by himself over in the corner.

    Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Will some please feed Baby Jesus or change his diaper. Whatever needs to be done. Damn but the screaming is annoying!

  931. #938 cassandran
    March 21, 2008

    Creationism and Intelligent Design is actually a complex, long-duration plot by Al Qaeda designed to reduce the ability of Americans to think clearly and logically in accordance with the scientific method. When ID becomes paramount in all schools, the American people will be even more ignorant than they are already and will be easy meat for takeover by fundamentalism to their detriment and enslavement, to the reduction of American power, status and influence throughout the world, to the fear and incredulity of the America’s friends and the glee and triumph of her enemies.

  932. #939 kevin
    March 21, 2008

    Can you tell me a basic book that would help me get started on evolution? Just curious. Thanks.
    Posted by: Hey guys | March 21, 2008 12:59 PM

    YES! THE BIBLE!

    heh heh….or maybe go here

    http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/grow/

  933. #940 decrepitoldfool
    March 21, 2008

    Can you tell me a basic book that would help me get started on evolution? Just curious. Thanks

    Berkeley has a very nice introductory website: Understanding Evolution.

    (heading for 1,000 comments)

  934. #941 JohnW
    March 21, 2008

    This has to be the latest I’ve ever showed up to a party. It would have been sooner, but it’s taken me nearly twenty minutes to stop laughing. Best creationist own-goal since Behe at the Dover trial.

  935. #942 Duncan D'Nuts
    March 21, 2008

    “There is a rich, deep kind of irony that must be shared. I’m blogging this from the Apple store in the Mall of America…”

    A lesser irony is the underlying OS that PZ was using to write this entry:

    http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/index.html

  936. #944 Snog
    March 21, 2008

    UNBELIEVABLE! No really I don’t believe you. You are trying to tell us that you are important enough to the cause that a publicly funded police officer would keep you out of a public theater where you were going to be embarassed by your own words in a movie. Unbelieveable. I like the idea of your dungeon so that your readers only view comments that are praising or supportive. Makes your site look like everyone agrees with you. Common tactic with folks who are nervous about their position.

  937. #945 machinehuman
    March 21, 2008

    They are so “clever”. Very funny situation!

  938. #946 flasher702
    March 21, 2008

    You should have insisted they arrest you. They notability would have been well worth a night in the slammer.

  939. #947 R. Mildred
    March 21, 2008

    The “theory” is not falsifiable, so it can be proven neither right nor wrong

    Well actually the basis for ID was Natural Theology, which did have a central falsifiable aspect to it – and a sound version of ID should inherit that falsifiable aspect.

    The trouble is that the falsifiable bit basically goes like this; if you find a watch in the road, you would surmise that it was made by somebody, who sat down and decided he wanted to make a watch, and who then maybe sold it to someone, who in turn dropped the watch there – all because there’s no mechanism by which something as complex as a watch could otherwise exist.

    So if you pick up a creature, an ant, a cat, a pygmy elephant, it is safe to say that something must have designed it as well because there’s no mechanism other than by intelligent design by which such a complex thing could possibly exist.

    So to falsify natural theology, all you have to do is posit a mechanism by which such a complex a thing as a cat, an ant or a pygmy elephant could exist without bringing god into…

    Which is why natural evolution replaced natural theology when darwin whipped it out, and why ID shouldn’t be taught in schools outside of a “history of the sciences” class, where it’d fit in between phlogiston and the luminous aether.

    The troubling fact that ID also has the side effect of completely retarding scientific progress (because when faced with a question about how a biological mechanism occurs, in say microbiology, “god did it” is quite possibly the least helpful postulate imaginable) is just an added reason not to treat it like a currently valid theory.

    Of course Evolutionary Psychology has a habit of going to the extreme in the opposite direction and positing that everything, including literary critcism, can be improved by just declaring that whatever the subject is, it must, some way and some how, be the result of biological evolution.

    Even when Occam’s Razor would suggest otherwise and commonsense bursts into tears in despair at the thought.

  940. #948 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 21, 2008

    UNBELIEVABLE! No really I don’t believe you. You are trying to tell us that you are important enough to the cause that a publicly funded police officer would keep you out of a public theater where you were going to be embarassed by your own words in a movie. Unbelieveable. I like the idea of your dungeon so that your readers only view comments that are praising or supportive. Makes your site look like everyone agrees with you. Common tactic with folks who are nervous about their position.

    You obviously don’t come here often.

  941. #949 Duncan D'Nuts
    March 21, 2008

    @Snog…

    “UNBELIEVABLE!”

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  942. #950 Ferrous Patella
    March 21, 2008

    Gary B. @498, “Ferrous, you’ve never ROTFLMAO or LOL at t.o.?”

    [Captain Corcoran vox]
    Hardly ever!
    [/ccv]

    A quick Google search shows that this is a close as I have come: http://tinyurl.com/24yy6y

  943. #951 DanBlather
    March 21, 2008

    Richard Dawkins gives Expelled: “Two opposable thumbs down”.

  944. #952 RamblinDude
    March 21, 2008

    UNBELIEVABLE!

    And the laughs just keep coming!

  945. #953 Grolaw
    March 21, 2008

    I believe that you have been denied a public accommodation due to your “religious beliefs” or lack thereof.

    Check with the state’s Human Rights agency. I’d be pretty certain that excluding you for you lack of religious belief is a pretty clean action.

    I know that in Missouri a Chinese restaurant that excluded two deaf individuals and their friend (who used ASL to communicate) from the restaurant because of their disability had a very unpleasant day in court.

    The Revised Statutes of Missouri, Chapter 213 state:

    213.065. 1. All persons within the jurisdiction of the state of Missouri are free and equal and shall be entitled to the full and equal use and enjoyment within this state of any place of public accommodation, as hereinafter defined, without discrimination or segregation on the grounds of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, ancestry, or disability.

    2. It is an unlawful discriminatory practice for any person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from or deny any other person, or to attempt to refuse, withhold from or deny any other person, any of the accommodations, advantages, facilities, services, or privileges made available in any place of public accommodation, as defined in section 213.010 and this section, or to segregate or discriminate against any such person in the use thereof on the grounds of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, ancestry, or disability.

    3. The provisions of this section shall not apply to a private club, a place of accommodation owned by or operated on behalf of a religious corporation, association or society, or other establishment which is not in fact open to the public, unless the facilities of such establishments are made available to the customers or patrons of a place of public accommodation as defined in section 213.010 and this section.

    I am certain that the theater violated a similar statute – and, they may well have violated the terms of their leasehold with the Mall of America. Theaters are low-profit spaces and most busy malls are eliminating them whenever possible. This could do the trick.

    Make a complaint to the state agency. Usually that statute of limitations is only 180 days to make the complaint. I costs nothing to start the administrative investigation….

  946. #954 Vin Breau
    March 21, 2008

    Oh snap! I just saw Mr. Dawkins give a lecture at UT 3 days ago. He was asked about this movie, told us he had not seen it but had been duped into appearing in it under false pretenses. I’m so glad to hear he got in.

  947. #955 True Bob
    March 21, 2008

    Snog, you aren’t paying attention.

    PZ hasn’t tried to identify WHY he was expelled, although we could all suppose it is because he is an unforgiving critic of creationism/ID, extending to the IDiotic way they created this flick.

    When cops are off duty doing this type of work (i.e. controlling events, traffic etc.), they are paid by the folks who need their services.

    Also, the dungeon has plenty of empty space. Have you read all these comments? Then how do you get the impression “everyone” agrees with PZ? From time to time, even PZ’s sycophants disagree with him.

  948. #956 catta
    March 21, 2008

    Hardly ever!

    [crew]He’s hardly ever El-Oh-Eeeelled…[/crew]

    Three cheers +1 for you! Now back to the gatecrashing. =)

  949. #957 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “I’m not an attorney, but if you want to pursue legal action against the theater, or the producer — think of the PR!”

    We have all the PR we need from this. No need to martyr PZ any further.

    “You should have insisted they arrest you. They notability would have been well worth a night in the slammer.”

    No. It wouldn’t.

    Come on, people. This is already all over the blogosphere, and once Dawkins appears on Bill Maher, it will probably be on the TV as well. All the egg on the face that Expelled needs, and without any over-dramatic gestures or wasted police or court time.

    Seriously, get some perspective.

  950. #958 xcdesignproponentsists
    March 21, 2008

    Being in Canada, I’m not sure when I’ll be able to waste a tenner on Expelled. However, I was watching Ben Stein being interviewed by Pat Robertson, and he comes across as being a complete moron. For starters, he makes the absurd claim that “Darwinism” leads to the belief that “superior races have it as their moral duty to eliminate the lesser races”. Yeah, only if you’re a complete douchebag who slept through your high school biology classes. Perhaps the “solution” is not ID, but a bit of common sense.
    He then goes on to claim that “Darwinism” doesn’t explain anything, and as an example he says “it doesn’t explain how gravity holds the planets together in their orbits” or “how thermodynamics works” or “how physics or laws of motion work”. No shit, Stein. Perhaps somebody lied to you about what evolutionary biology claims to explain and you were gullible enough to believe it, but don’t assume everybody else does not allow intelligence when it comes to understanding simple facts.

  951. #959 Jewel
    March 21, 2008

    Oh, that’s brilliant!!! And by that I mean — BRILLIANT!!! ROFLMAO!

  952. #960 szqc
    March 21, 2008

    Best Thread Ever! From the whole event, the initial LOL and ROFLing, the trolls, the trolls getting a can of whoop-ass handed to them, through Cuttlefish’s best rhyme ever, Rev BigDumbChimp getting in some excellent anti-Tard, Kristine’s analysis and so on.

    Never mind 1000 responses; let’s go for *1859* responses and then raise a glass to Charles D. :)

  953. #961 Cheezits
    March 21, 2008

    I’m not an attorney, but if you want to pursue legal action against the theater, or the producer — think of the PR!

    I am thinking of it. That’s why I hope he doesn’t do it.

  954. #962 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “I am certain that the theater violated a similar statute – and, they may well have violated the terms of their leasehold with the Mall of America. Theaters are low-profit spaces and most busy malls are eliminating them whenever possible. This could do the trick. ”

    Get the whole MOVIE THEATER kicked out of the mall because of some silly incident with a private-ish screening? Like, I said, PERSPECTIVE. Get some.

  955. #963 Jesse
    March 21, 2008

    SWEET ZOMBIE JESUS!!!

    The hypocrisy is suffocating!!!

    The whole basis of this pile of diarrhea marketed as ‘Expelled’ is the bias against teaching ID/Creationism and here we have the movie management refusing to let the ‘other side’ even see it?

    If there was any doubt about how dishonest, childish, and spineless creationists are……

  956. #964 True Bob
    March 21, 2008

    “superior races have it as their moral duty to eliminate the lesser races”

    Not even wrong.

    When I was back in college (yes, we had pterodactyls) we had one mandatory philosophy course (engineering school). It was basically a historical review, with an emphasis that we not go build death machines. You know, that design award means crap if it is for designing gas chambers for Treblinka/Buchenwald/etc.

  957. #965 Rey Fox
    March 21, 2008

    “Snog, you aren’t paying attention.”

    He’s an obvious hit-and-runner. Don’t even bother.