Not my cup of tea

Did you not hear that you can run Windows on apple hardware now, if you are so wont?

PZ, take a look at this open source Windows emulator for Mac: http://digg.com/apple/Open_Source_Windows_Emulator_for_Mac

There are others for Unix and Linux machines too. Just Google ["Windows Emulator" "Open Source"] for a list.

While were talking links did you see this:
http://www.utexas.edu/news/2008/11/20/giant_protist/

article:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MImg&_imagekey=B6VRT-4TYRF97-6…

video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQslM6ZAdnU

Yes, on Intel macs, but you need a copy of XP or Vista and all the PITA that implies. The new "unibody" macbooks have much better graphic hardware, and may attract more games to mac.

I suppose it might be worth trying on WINE.

uh--I assumed this meant that PZ is a linux geek like my 2 sons...

PZ loves to tweak the PC Borg.

Naw, he's a mac fanboi.

I could make remarks like "as a biologist, PZ doesn't have the technical savvy to run Windows" or "PZ worships at the feet of St. Jobs and calls anathema on St. Gates." But I shall refrain.

Something like 75% of biologists use Macs, it's sort of creepy. As soon as PZ said he wasn't using Windows, it was pretty clear what this implied.

Right now PZ is using his old laptop, which may be a G4 model. It can emulate a PC, but only very ssssllllllloooooowwwwwwly. The newer Intel chip models can run Windows at full speed.

To be fair, I wouldn't touch any games while using a Mac either.

So you do belong to a religion after all!

Actually, programming for the Mac is just like programming for Windows, only spelling counts.

About comment #4 (Tim):

Between the fiasco of OpenGL 3, Mac's philosophy of doing everything differently from other operating systems (this is quite funny... porting my application from Windows to Linux wasn't as hard as adding OS X support for it), and the market segment that Apple aims for, I don't see Mac gaming as a reality anytime soon.

I can't wait until they perfect WINE so I can finally switch permanently to Linux.

I've never had a Mac. But can anyone give me a non-biased link that compares mac to everything else?

I've been considering looking at a mac for my next laptop because I've heard good things, but I'm scared!

Can someone shoot some good info my way????

Thanks for any info.......

Ah,finally,another holy war over operating systems !!

Kobra said :

I can't wait until they perfect WINE so I can finally switch permanently to Linux.

If you need Wine to switch to Linux,you should probably stay on Windoze LOL.
What with the scientists affiliation with over-expensive Apple computers,I have never understood it.
But they sure as hell have the best product placement in the history of television.

The game actually does run fairly well in Wine, although there's a fair bit of slowdown whenever the dialogue plays for some reason. I think there might be a Wine port for Mac, but it would still need to be run on Intel hardware regardless. Wine only replicates the Windows API, rather than fully emulating a Windows system; the upside of this is that if an application is fully supported by Wine it'll run just as fast as the Windows version, if not faster, however it also means that it'll only work with x86 processors.

I have Desktop Parallels+Windows XP, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It is just so slow and glitchy. Given a choice between using an application that runs on Windows only, and not running it at all, I'd take the not running it at all option and avoid all the PITA.

I'll take a pc anyday...especially a ultramegasuperamazing fast one with 19 cores and 250 gigs of memory - it's got to have a 3.5 floppy tho-:|

I'm a freelance artist in the movie industry, so I have a Mac at home (Intel 8-core, 24 gigs ram) and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
From what I understand (I'm not a gamer) the problem with Macs for games is the video card. Video card makers are waaaaaay ahead in their offerings for PC, and they utilize that nifty ability (I forget what it's called) to wire multiple video cards together for maximum game deliciousness.
But I'm going to install Vista on my mac solely to try out Photoshop CS4 in 64 bit. Adobe won't be releasing a Mac 64 bit version for a year or two. :(

/Geek mode off

Shamar @ #17- "I've never had a Mac. But can anyone give me a non-biased link that compares mac to everything else?

I've been considering looking at a mac for my next laptop because I've heard good things, but I'm scared!

Can someone shoot some good info my way????

Thanks for any info......."

Shamar, a lot depends on what you plan on doing with your laptop.
I can recommend asking the tech guys at this forum-

http://www.macgurus.com/forums/index.php

Don't let the name make you nervous. They don't SELL macs, but they troubleshoot and help with repairs, upgrades etc.
They are the most all-around knowledgeable computer folks I've run across, and they have plenty of experience with PCs as well. Just be as specific as you can with your questions there, and I'm sure they can help you out...

http://www.themacsucks.com/

Despite the provocative URL, this is a remarkably fair site. The author compares Macs, Windows and Linux systems in a somewhat unbiased way.

I was going to get a Macbook Pro for my next laptop. Had it all picked out the way I wanted it. The Apple web store even let me order it.

But they won't ship it to me here in "FPO-land." No way, no how. Not even if I follow the instructions for people using an APO/FPO address.

So, since the Apple store does such a wonderful job supporting the troops overseas, my next laptop will be a Dell.

mac vs pc pc vs mac. OSX XP, Vista. they are both businesses out to get your money, they are not charities. They both have hooks in beded in their products that leave you dependent, you don't own software you have a license to use it.

there is more software written for windows then Mac. Mac looks nicer and costs more.
they don't network together very well my Powerbook just stopped seeing my LAN which was PC and Mac. I refuse to be kept in a single box just so some company can be rich!
I have not succeeded in getting the Powerbook back on LAN just have not found the time.
I think that the biggest reason is it just is difficult to learn new stuff the familiar is easier. My pc's don't crash all the time my win 98 did not crash all the time either. and I can fix it with help from books and friends. I have seen a screen pop up on my mac that said I should take it in to the dealer that I was not capable of fixing it. Oh look a hook nice and sharp I guess I will have to go pay more money to fix it.
I like them both equally well but am more familiar with PC's
just because you are familiar with one and have no trouble with it does not mean the other is a piece of garbage. Don't get swept away with marketing hype propaganda. No computer is equal to a Hal 9000 nor the computer on the NCC-1701
I will have to make do with these sesame street facsimiles we have to day.

@ # 23

That sounds like the type of answers I always get....I just want to use it for normal internet shit! I'm not a gamer, I do most of my school papers on Word on my laptop. I don't know what else to say. I play simple multiplayer games that require no downloads and watch streaming video on my laptop also.

So...what are the pros and cons for a person like me between a pc and a mac????

Well, judging by your answer, I'd say the most important factor is PRICE!! Macs are great, but are quite a bit more expensive than your average PC. Which is fine if you need one a specific task. But for just all-around internet/word/basic computer use, I'd definitely recommend a good, inexpensive PC laptop.
I'll let others with usages similar to yours make specific make and model recs. Good luck!

But can anyone give me a non-biased link that compares mac to everything else?

Non-biased? You're dreaming.

I would recommend stopping into an Apple store, getting your hands on a Mac for an hour or so, and seeing how you like it. Not everyone does.

-jcr

#25: Katrina,

So, since the Apple store does such a wonderful job supporting the troops overseas,

As I recall (somewhat fuzzily from when I worked for them a few years back), Apple has some kind of deal with the armed forces exchange system that prohibits Apple selling machines directly to APO/FPO customers. I believe it also involves special pricing for active-duty people, similar to the education discounts.

If you're stationed on a major base with a PX, try asking them about availability. If they don't know, send me a note at jcr at mac dot com, and I'll forward it to a friend at Apple who can find out.

-jcr

If someone was making a mac commercial and asked me why I like them, I could boil it down to one reason- durability. I've owned 4 macs (2 desktops and 2 laptops) and the damn things are just built like tanks.
I got my first desktop in 2001, and the only reason I upgraded to a new Intel box is software- the newest versions of things like Photoshop simply won't run on older hardware. So I retired my 7-year old desktop, even though it still runs as well as the day I got it. I'm going to wipe the hard drive and give it to a friend to use for basic computer/internet stuff.
And my previous laptop (an ibook G3) got dropped on my tile floor one day and didn't even notice, just kept right on running.
So, for me, the cost/benefit ratio is worth it- I pay more up front, but I save in the long run because the damn things last so long. That's my mac commercial.
I've worked on PC's more times than I can remember, and I can't say there's a huge difference in the OS experience. Windows and OSX are a lot more alike than they are different.

Katrina,

I just asked a friend at Apple who happened to be online, and I'm told that you can shop for Macs online at the main AAFES.com web site. I'm sure they can handle APO/FPO shipping.

HTH,

-jcr

Rick R #31:
"If someone was making a mac commercial and asked me why I like them, I could boil it down to one reason- durability...I got my first desktop in 2001, and the only reason I upgraded to a new Intel box is software- the newest versions of things like Photoshop simply won't run on older hardware. So I retired my 7-year old desktop, even though it still runs as well as the day I got it...So, for me, the cost/benefit ratio is worth it- I pay more up front, but I save in the long run because the damn things last so long. That's my mac commercial."

Friday, my mom got a new PC. The one she was using until then was a 75mhz Gateway that was purchased during the first couple months of Windows 95. It's still good, I'm wondering what kind of neat little project I can make with it.
13 years. Where's her commercial?

:P I really have no experience with Macs so I'm in no position to make a judgement on them.

Jason- that's quite remarkable!

In my experience, most problems average home PC users have with their machines revolve around maintenance. Most users want to know enough to use them, but most (IMO) don't want to get into the messiness of good maintenance habits. A lot of the horror stories I hear from friends and family regarding crashes, seizures and major losses of data etc. could have been circumvented by learning and following general maintenance procedures (defragmentation, disk repair, etc.)
There are too few good PC gurus out there, unfortunately.

JCR-

True enough. Our NEX (sorry, Navy) does offer Apple computers, but, just like the PCs they offer, there are no higher-end computers.

I used to order my Dells through AAFES.com in order to get the military discount, but it totally screws up the warranty/service end, should you need it. Apparently, when you buy through AAFES, you are not the owner - and so cannot extend the warranty. Not sure if you can use it without hassle, either.

APOBox.com offers a deal with Apple to re-ship items via the USPS for a small fee. I have used it for things like iPods (that weren't currently available at the NEX) but Apple won't accept their address for something as big as a computer, anyway.

It's OK. I'm sure I'll appreciate my Dell. We're a household of Dell users now. And, for the price, I got a better video card, faster clock speed, and over twice the hard drive capacity.

Okay, thank you guys...I think I'll stay with a PC.

PC guy myself, but most software for biologists, pcr stuff, sequencing, all that jazz, is written for mac.
So they're kind of limited to it, regardless.

My laptop (a Dell m1330) runs Ubuntu, Vista and OS-X. So does one of the desktops I have here. I spend most of my time in Ubuntu.

It isnt at all difficult PZ. Why limit yourself to 1 OS?

WTF is Ububtu (don't hit me pleae, forgive me)?

I have a Dell XPS M1530 with Linux, Vista, and OSX (don't tell Apple) installed on it. I highly recommend this laptop though Mac OSX isn't that great despite what everyone says.

And I'm not sure what #14 is talking about since that seems to matter in every programming language I can think of. Capitalization is another matter.

What about this game?:

http://armorgames.com/play/2739/tentadrill

I'm so old I remember when the world's fastest Mac was an Amiga with a Mac emulator running on it.

Ryan- "I highly recommend this laptop though Mac OSX isn't that great despite what everyone says."

I've never heard of anyone running OSX on non-Apple hardware. I know it's all Intel-native now. I'd be curious to run a side-by-side speed comparison of OSX on comparable Apple/non-Apple hardware. What is your experience of it like?
I know Apple specifically configures its hardware to take full advantage of OSX (or rather they tweak each release of OSX for certain hardware configs. For example, my Powerbook G4 (non-Intel) will run 10.4 but not 10.3). So I'm curious what kind of performance you're getting.

I take it you have OSX installed on it's own drive, or on a separate partition, yes?

I haven't used a Mac since I was in school (one of the schools I went to had Macs instead of PCs), and I don't think I've ever even seen a computer running Linux. Then again, I'm a political geek not a tech geek (though I do spend far too much time on the internet, as you may have gathered...)

I've worked on Macs and PC's, but also Linux and Unix environments as well. Switching from a GUI to a command line interface takes a little getting used to. What's nice about OSX is it's all Unix under the hood, so you can open up a terminal and dig in, if you're so inclined....

WTF is Ububtu

Ubuntu Linux, Debian based, which has become the most popular Linux desktop very quickly. The server version is newer, and is also rapidly gaining market share.

Completely off-topic, but an FFRF billboard was recently taken down following pressure from city officials. Links:

http://www.ffrf.org/news/2008/censorship.php
http://atheistsunited.org/home/press-releases/146-city-leaders-exercise…

The Atheists United site has contact details for the city council, along with sample messages:

http://atheistsunited.org/about-atheists-united/programs/147-automatic-…

Nobody's actually commented on the game yet...

'Tis a very short demo, but not very fun.

I just tried it under Ubuntu Linux and wine with no success.

I ran it under Windows too. As the website says, it exists as an experiment in narrative in gaming, and it has no purpose beyond that. Academically interesting for those interested in game design, but not really enjoyable beyond that.

I've worked on Macs and PC's, but also Linux and Unix environments as well. Switching from a GUI to a command line interface takes a little getting used to.

WTF? What does a command line have to do with anything?

All three can be used from a command line, and all three have a full graphical interface. If your "experience" is that shallow (or old) then it's not worth sharing.

The only thing that surprises me about the PC vs Mac thing is that Apple have somehow managed to retain a cute and fluffy image, even after the most monumentally evil and biased advertising campaign.

"Hi, I'm a Mac, and I'm cute and fluffy and trendy"
"Hi, I'm a PC, and I like to murder and cannibalise babies"

They really just as much evil corporate whores as Microsoft, except with a smaller market share and much better PR. I mean, if tomorrow Microsoft decided that you could only buy Windows on specific Microsoft hardware that you had to purchase from them I can only imagine the uproar ;)

Posted by: Randall | November 22, 2008 10:42 PM
"Something like 75% of biologists use Macs, it's sort of creepy. As soon as PZ said he wasn't using Windows, it was pretty clear what this implied."

The vasy majority of biologists are also atheists.
This means:

A) A belief in evolution causes atheism and a cult attachment to Macs.

B) Atheism always leads to immoral behavior producing biologists who will buy anything with a logo showing a bite of the apple from the forrbidden tree of knowledge.

C) Biologists are atheists and use Macs because rational thought produces the highest likelihood of making an informed choice based on logic and accuracy.

I loath Window's only software too, but it's BSD Unix for this biologist. I'll have none of that Mac user-friendly shit -- it just means your girlfriend can find your porn =)

I'll have none of that Mac user-friendly shit -- it just means your girlfriend can find your porn =)

I use Linux on Desktop and Laptop,so did utterly compy-unsavvy ex and computer-whats-that dad-in-law,and they can surf and do their ebay shit and put the Lotto on without a problem,and im sure the ex knew how to find my porn without a problem....Might of course have been in part because we used to look at it together LOL

Guy at work today was proud as,and told me he just bought a Mac notebook for 4 grand.....and we're talking a nurse here....You can buy a friggin car for that price....My system is custom-build and lightning fast,and cost me 700 bucks.WTF

Regarding the game: The atmosphere is ruined when the narrator repeates the same phrases over and over. I played through the demo, but I wouldn't want to waste more time on it.

Talk about the cult of Mac.

*sigh*

Also, use a PC.

@Clinteas
"Guy at work today was proud as,and told me he just bought a Mac notebook for 4 grand.."

Umm... that was a fully loaded MacBookPro which start at $2000. For $4,000 he probably added a lot of pro software, more mem (the $2,800 one comes with 4 gigs) and possibly a flat screen to go with it.

You can buy a MacBook with a bult in webcam and mic, almost all the software the average person needs including, photo, mail, HD video editing and DVD movie maker, web design, chat, backup and music sequencer with loops, 2 gigs memory, 160 gigdrive and dual core processor for $1,300... and it will run Windows/Vista.

Plus it all works out of the box... no drivers to download, etc.

Why do the PC Borg always act like Republicans and creationists when it comes to Macs? They love to distort and misrepresent the facts to perpetuate their illusion of everyman superiority against the effete fashionista intellectual class ... and yes, there is sarcasm and humor in that statement.

WTF?? is right.

It's a game, it has cephalopods. I must play this, just in the interest of science ... um yeah.

C) Biologists are atheists and use Macs because rational thought produces the highest likelihood of making an informed choice based on logic and accuracy.

Nope. As mentioned above, a large amount of the programs for biology was written for Mac and doesn't exist elsewhere. Also, I've witnessed rather drastic Mac crashes, and lots of stupidity that Windows just doesn't do.

it's BSD Unix for this biologist.

BSD? Isn't that the one for people who want to know why their computer doesn't work? :^)

Plus it all works out of the box... no drivers to download, etc.

That's a difference to Linux (last time I checked several years ago), not to Windows. Windows, ever since 98 at the very least, has been recognizing any piece of hardware you can think of and not needed any downloaded driver. Only Java Virtual Machine is not preinstalled.

//BSD? Isn't that the one for people who want to know why their computer doesn't work? :^)//

ROFL !!!

Why do the PC Borg always act like Republicans and creationists when it comes to Macs?

I couldnt tell....Wrong mental image maybe?

ROFL !!!

Old joke:
Linux is for people who want to know why their computer works.
BSD (IIRC) is for people who want to know why their computer doesn't work.
Mac is for people who don't want to know why their computer works.
Windows is for people who don't want to know why their computer doesn't work.

Is posted in every single Holy War thread.

David Marjanović, OM | November 23, 2008 10:42 AM
C) Biologists are atheists and use Macs because rational thought produces the highest likelihood of making an informed choice based on logic and accuracy.
Nope..."

Humor David, humor.

"Only Java Virtual Machine is not preinstalled."

Along with most of the other software I listed.
Plus you did not dispute the fact that Clinteas completely misrepresented comparisons. I'm telling you... he's a closet Republican/creationist and you're starting to worry me too.

//I'm telling you... he's a closet Republican/creationist//

mayhemdings,

could you kindly mail me some of the mind-altering drugs you consume,i believe they are rather potent.We like potent down here.

"Mac is for people who don't want to know why their computer works."

At least we're honest about it...
we've got better things to do with our tools.

;^ )

While we're making random evil cephalopod references, here's another:
http://www.angryflower.com/tkiilii.html

John

@Clinteas
"..could you kindly mail me some of the mind-altering drugs you consume,i believe they are rather potent.We like potent down here."

Where's "down here"? I'm in Buenos Aires and the pot sucks... all brown and compressed from Paraguay. I was spoiled in California. Lot's of coke here, which I don't care for at all, haven't seen any shrooms or LSD but I hear there is lot of Ecstasy going around in the dance clubs.

Down here,as in down under LOL...

Of course we closet republican creationist apple computer lovers do not consume illegal drugs here at all,ever,are you insane or something....

BSD? Isn't that the one for people who want to know why their computer doesn't work? :^)

It's the one for smug, elitist, snobs. I'd explain it to you further, but ... =)

Mayhempix:

"Mac is for people who don't want to know why their computer works."

At least we're honest about it...
we've got better things to do with our tools.

Hear, hear!

I'm just dropping in here, because I was done with OS jihads long ago, but...

The point of any tool is to get stuff done, not to understand how the tool works. Any effort spent "mastering" the tool is waste, and should be ruthlessly eliminated wherever possible.

For me, personally, Macs allow me to get stuff done with a minimum of wasted effort mastering the tool.

Everyone's MMV, of course... and I understand that for some people, understanding the tool is the "stuff" you want to get done, whether for professional reasons or just because that's what entertains you. In that case... good on ya', but don't call me a (wait for it...) pussy because I prefer as seamless and effortless a computing experience as possible.

@clinteas

So apparently we are on the same side of the equator only you're on the Anglo continent and I'm on the Latin one. That would explain the Anglican see no, hear no, speak no evil vs the Catholic celebration of all things irrational.

Also I think you met "closet republican creationist apple computer haters"... not lovers.

Is... is this turning into an OS Holy War thread? Yay!

For $4,000 he probably added a lot of pro software

Almost all of which has open source equivalents available.

That's a difference to Linux (last time I checked several years ago), not to Windows.

Ubuntu Linux does a good job of "Just Works". "Several years ago" may even have been pre-Ubuntu.

Windows, ever since 98 at the very least, has been recognizing any piece of hardware you can think of and not needed any downloaded driver. Only Java Virtual Machine is not preinstalled.

I often find the Windows pre-installed (or installed via Windows Update) drivers are rubbish, and I need to download drivers from the manufacturer (e.g. motherboard drivers to get HDDs to run at above 33MB/s).

Bill Dauphin | November 23, 2008 11:35 AM
"...but don't call me a (wait for it...) pussy because I prefer as seamless and effortless a computing experience as possible."

Too funny!
Does that mean that PC users are P-olitically C-orrect P-ussy C-ats... no sexual reference intended?

I use a Dell running Windows XP at work, and have an extensively upgraded Mac G4 running Leopard at home. I frankly don't tell much difference at the end of the day. Both do what is needed, although work is mostly corporate e-mail, word processing, spreadsheets, and some web surfing with IE6 (getting painful), and home is personal e-mail, web surfing, and some video work. Running windows behind a corporate firewall helps keep it clean. So far, no virus/malware problems with the Mac, which does have an antivirus program so I can hook up to the corporate e-mail from home.

I say look at your use, then buy based on that, especially if software only comes in one flavor. If you game or are a real power user, PC. If you want easy to use and reduced virus worry, Mac.

... I prefer as seamless and effortless a computing experience as possible.

Pussy.

amk | November 23, 2008 11:47 AM
"Almost all of which has open source equivalents available."

I haven't seen any equivalents for Avid, Final Cut, Pro Tools, Logic, Aperature, Photo Shop, After Affects, Shake, DVD Studio Pro, etc.

Granted some of these programs work on Windows but I've tried both and the Mac user experience and stability wins hands down.

Windows, ever since 98 at the very least, has been recognizing any piece of hardware you can think of and not needed any downloaded driver.

This must be a different Windows than I use. I've had to use USB sticks to get drivers onto PC laptops because Windows didn't support the networking hardware out of the box, or much of anything else beyond basic keyboard/mouse and SVGA video (and flash drives, obviously).

Something like 75% of biologists use Macs

? This is BS, in my fairly extensive experience. It might be true for the molecular types.

I do art for video games.
that pretty much means I work on a PC. (Got a great dell laptop at the moment, tweaked up and maxed out.)
While a lot of the software I use is available on all, a lot of it is deved primarilly on PC, and recieves updates to PC first. (Except for Blender, though that's my own hobby horse, not for work. I'd love it if I could convince my work to use an open source, awesome piece of software like blender though.)
XSI, 3dsmax, and maya are all primarilly PC. Zbrush is both, but is devved on PC, so it's releases for PC come a heck of a lot sooner.
On a side note, Pixologic, the makes of Zbrush, gave everyone who bought zbrush 2 a free upgrade to zbrush 3. Most 3d software companies bend you over for software upgrades... really expensive. Pixologic just gives em to you. Not just patches: Full version upgrades.

Macs allow me to get stuff done with a minimum of wasted effort mastering the tool.

There is an odd sort of pride I see from time to time, from those who have put a lot of effort into memorizing the minutia of a needlessly complex environment. When windows users say "Oh, windows is great as long as you.. (insert list of maintenance tasks that don't need to be done on the Mac)", I often wonder if they're even listening to themselves.

-jcr

Hi P.Z.
I'm the one responsible for the vile windows only game in question ;) Thanks for linking to my game even if you couldn't play it.

I would have loved to make it cross platform unfortunately while the will is there the skills are not :(

For those of you who could play and found it too short or didn't like how often some dialogue repeated. I am planning a larger version that should fix both those issues.

This version was made on a tight deadline, with only one chance to record with my voice actor, so while there's a wide range of actions that trigger unique dialogue, each action has at most two variations.

Anyway I listen to a lot of skeptic and science podcasts while I work so it was neat to see my game show up here... even if it wasn't your cup of tea ;)

#51- "WTF? What does a command line have to do with anything?

All three can be used from a command line, and all three have a full graphical interface. If your "experience" is that shallow (or old) then it's not worth sharing."

You're right. Here I was trying to answer somebody's question, and instead I should have come in and dropped a body-warm load of snark turd.

My mistake.

#43 - http://www.tuaw.com/2008/10/09/the-little-leopard-laptop/

So, doesn't really make sense.

I've never heard of anyone running OSX on non-Apple hardware. I know it's all Intel-native now. I'd be curious to run a side-by-side speed comparison of OSX on comparable Apple/non-Apple hardware. What is your experience of it like?

Performance wise I don't see any issues. Then again I have no idea how fast it should be running on comparable Mac hardware. The laptop I'm using is very close to what I believe you'd find in a Macbook. The only thing I don't have working is the fingerprint reader.

I take it you have OSX installed on it's own drive, or on a separate partition, yes?

Vista on one partition, Fedora 9 on one partition, Mac OSX on one partition, and Grub on a boot partition so I can select amongst them. They all fit nicely on the included 250GB drive.

Speaking of games, (old-fashioned board games, not computer), has everyone seen "Playing Gods" and "Blasphemy"? They'd make excellent birthday gifts for Baby Jesus.

http://deusexeverriculum.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/dear-birthday-shopper…

On the same page that send you to for donations they have this adlink:

"Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger needs to hear from Christian Coalition supporters to drop his support for a lawsuit overturning California's Proposition 8 - a state constitutional amendment banning homosexual "marriages" ...

If Arnold listened to them Maria Shriver would probably cut his steroid soaked balls off.

Oh poo. Well, I hope you looked at the photo I sent you and didn't delete it thinking it was a virus or something.