Pharyngula

Ray Comfort has a new book

I don’t recommend reading Comfort’s book, but I can whole-heartedly recommend the reviews of You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can’t Make Him Think: Answers to Questions from Angry Skeptics as worthy and entertaining. As you might guess, they aren’t kind.

The best review, though, gives the book five stars. But then, what else would you expect from General JC Christian, Patriot?

Comments

  1. #1 Dahan
    February 19, 2009

    One of the comments:

    “Dr. Comfort’s book is amazing. It may be the best primer for defeating an atheist I’ve ever read. I’m particularly fond of how he proves the existence of God by pointing out the perfection of the banana and the fact that the atmosphere is 78.09% nitrogen and 20.95% oxygen–“the exact mixture that his [Adam’s] lungs and blood needed to survive.”

    Every time I think I’ve heard the most profoudly stupid comment ever by a creatard, they come up with a new one.

  2. #2 Kel
    February 19, 2009

    I wouldn’t be surprised if that comment is poe.

  3. #3 Newfie
    February 19, 2009

    From the second link:

    Take that atheists!

    Fond of bad grammar and italics, and using an Edward Current line. He doth protest too much. Poe.

  4. #4 Glen Davidson
    February 19, 2009

    Can’t get the atheist to take the banana, either.

    And just for the record, I don’t believe any one thing ever made me think so much as giving up god/religion. The loss of the crutch is very noticeable, when one has been raised to rely upon it.

    It’s always stunning to see people who have never had any basis for thought complaining about the lack of thought in those of us who have probably spent more time thinking than we probably should have done.

    Glen D
    http://tinyurl.com/6mb592

  5. #5 Che
    February 19, 2009

    The 5 star reviews are more funny than the 1-star ones!

  6. #6 Wowbagger
    February 19, 2009

    Dahan,

    Did you read the rest of that guy’s review? It’s got to be a parody:

    My only disappointment with the proofs provided in this book is that my favorite, Eve, isn’t listed among them. Evolution could have made her look like anything at all–like Rush Limbaugh, a big hairy wookie, or a naked mole rat for example. There’s no way Adam would have tapped that. Instead, God chose to fashion one of Adam’s ribs into something soft, curvy, beautiful, and desirable (Yes, he did make that little sailor in the boat impossible to find, but that’s only because you’re not supposed to touch it).

    God did that. He made women attractive to men, so we’d want to procreate with them rather than watermelons or sheep or something else. And even more importantly, he knew when to stop. No barbeque on these ribs, because God doesn’t want us to be always tasting them.

  7. #7 Janine, Ignorant Slut
    February 19, 2009

    Dahan, you just quoted General JC Christian, Patriot. That persona is satire, not a creotard.

  8. #8 Kel
    February 19, 2009

    Now that I’ve read the full review that Dahan partially quoted, I’m convinced it’s a poe. Like Newfie said, it’s straight out of the Edward Current playbook.

    I’ve been considering reading some theist books and arguments in order to get a better idea of where the theist mindset is coming from. Ray Comfort confusing evolution in cosmology saves me the trouble of the dilemma of reading him. The guy needs to get a clue!

  9. #9 Facilis
    February 19, 2009

    Ah Ray Comfort.
    I used to visit his blog. It has been rather boring lately especially since Sye and scmike and the other apologists stopped posting.It is too bad that Ray is so scientifically ignorant though.

  10. #10 June
    February 19, 2009

    Amazing that Adam’s legs were precisely long enough to touch the ground! A little longer, and he would have had to plow through the ground; a little shorter, and he would have had no traction.

  11. #11 Metro
    February 19, 2009

    Ah, the Comfort Zone–If we could turn flaming thermostupid into energy Ray Comfort could solve all our energy problems.

    I’d rather go with nuclear power though–Stupid tends to contaminate anything it touches, and takes generations to clean out.

  12. #12 MH
    February 19, 2009

    I wonder if “General JC Christian, Patriot” is anything like George Liquor, American.

  13. #13 Janine, Ignorant Slut
    February 19, 2009

    You know a person is ignorant when the likes of Facilis calls them on it. The funny is so sweet.

  14. #14 Steve_C
    February 19, 2009

    Faclis, you and Ray should get along great, you both make fails in reason everyday.

  15. #15 www.10ch.org
    February 19, 2009

    @#1 Dahan
    “Every time I think I’ve heard the most profoudly stupid comment ever by a creatard, they come up with a new one.”
    You know, I think that this comment was sarcasm.

  16. #16 frog
    February 19, 2009

    Could you imagine if Dawkins titled books “Answers for cretinous Christians”? And that would still be a more poetically titled book.

    The simplicity of their thought is always visible in their projection.

  17. #17 Wowbagger
    February 19, 2009

    New Zealand’s proudest moment* was when Ray left its shores for greener pastures idiots to fleece.

    *Well, apart from maybe the point at which Ichthyic chose it as his new home…

  18. #18 Brownian
    February 19, 2009

    When I’d read the title of this post (Ray Comfort has a new book), I’d really hoped it was “Everyone Poops”, a “See Spot Run”-type primer, or something informative.

    Instead, it’s another of his own.

  19. #19 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    February 19, 2009

    Whoa, Facilis the Fallacious Fool, who knows no science, logic, or reason, calling somebody a know-nothing in science. Good thing my irony meter is heavily fused. Time to order another gross of fuses.

  20. #20 Norman Doering
    February 19, 2009

    Someone named “Daniel” surmised, on my blog, that the inside of Ray Comfort’s head is probably a lot like the movie, “The Cell”:

    http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2009/02/news-flash-ray-comfort-likes-sadistic.html

    Makes you wonder, don’t it…

  21. #21 marcus
    February 19, 2009

    “Gen. JC Christian” obviously a poe. The “little man in the boat” is not that hard to find. (But, of course, it is fun to have an excuse to keep looking.)

  22. #22 Dahan
    February 19, 2009

    I wish I could believe you all and you may very well be right, but a Poe is a Poe for a reason. I’ve got relatives that would say this exact same thing and not be in any way spoofing. :)

  23. #23 frog
    February 19, 2009

    Jane, Ignorant Slut: Dahan, you just quoted General JC Christian, Patriot. That persona is satire, not a creotard.

    Take that back. General JC Christian, Patriot is a God-Fearing Heterosexual Male American who is never attracted to Rambo posters except as an honor to a true American hero — the sight of a sweaty, shirtless John Rambo is purely of interest for it’s interest into the mind of a military genius!

    If only Rambo (or the General) had been president in ’67, instead of that race-mixer LBJ…

  24. #24 Stwriley
    February 19, 2009

    What gives me the greatest kick is that Amazon actually has Gen JC Christian, Patriot’s review listed as positive. That’s a tribute to the ultimate snark that is Jesus’ General.

    For all those here who hadn’t heard of Jesus’ General before, it’s prime satire from a master. Take the second link to the blog itself and see the General in his full glory.

  25. #25 Patricia, OM
    February 19, 2009

    Facilis calling someone else ignorant…thats rich.

  26. #26 Longtime Lurker
    February 19, 2009

    The “little man in the boat” is not that hard to find. (But, of course, it is fun to have an excuse to keep looking.)

    Funny, the guys who don’t take the time to find the “little man in the boat” tend to be the same sort of guys who’d spend thirty minutes looking for a golf ball.

    The general is a well-known satirist.

  27. #27 Dahan
    February 19, 2009

    Call me “got”, that’s cool! I’ve suckered in a few others doing the same thing before. Honestly, it can be hard to tell.

  28. #28 Sastra
    February 19, 2009

    Janine Ignorant Slut #13 wrote:

    You know a person is ignorant when the likes of Facilis calls them on it.

    Roy Comfort makes evidentialist arguments: God’s existence can be confirmed through reason and evidence. But he is probably one of the worst apologists around. His arguments are bad, very bad — even by evangelical Christian standards.

    If Facilis really did hang out there for awhile, then I’m not that surprised that he shifted to presuppositional arguments. As the presupper Strauss put it, “if you don’t start with God, you won’t get to God.” It allows the Christian to throw up their hands and throw away not just Comfort’s Argument from the Banana, but all scientific and empirical arguments all together. God doesn’t have to be proven to skeptics, because the skeptics already believe in God. Done!

    Comfort might very well scare a Christian that much.

  29. #29 GMacs
    February 19, 2009

    I loves me some satire, especially when the title is flashing multilingual.

    Hey, about this esteemed colleague of Myers … Comfort, is it? … what is this about bananas? He says they were CREATED to fit the human hand. But, I’m currently reading “Guns Germs and Steel” which continuously mentions bananas as a domestic plant.

    So… um… doesn’t this mean that banana’s were artificially selected to “fit” the human hand (ie they are an example of microevolution, ie they are an example of evolution)?

  30. #30 GeoffR
    February 19, 2009

    reading the Amazon reviews of this book, and the comments following Dena Malda’s curious comment in the item below, there are grounds to think that there’s a majority of sane people out there, which is gratifying.

    It seems that crap-science based evolution denial, and nonsensical fervant religious outbursts are being increasingly held up to ridicule ….. long overdue.
    I hope it keeps spreading.

  31. #31 frog
    February 19, 2009

    I’m warning you — stop accusing The General of being a Poe or satirist. Satire is for Latte-Sipping San Francisco Liberal Crypto-commies, with all their fancy words and public transportation. The General has kicked asses for lesser offenses.

    Don’t make him call you out for a wrestling match — Greek style. He’s done it before.

  32. #32 Matt Pickard
    February 19, 2009

    Oh my… those reviews completely eviscerate Comfort. Wow. Good stuff.

  33. #33 Gizmo
    February 19, 2009

    lol http://raycomfortfood.blogspot.com/2009/02/will-smith-gives-big-money.html

    Did Ray just say that he thinks a good portion of Scientology is good? Thats news to me.

  34. #34 Twin-Skies
    February 19, 2009

    Other posts on Jesus’ General:

    “We love Sarah Palin and want her to be our president, because she is intelligenter than us”

    Definitely a Poe. Thanks PZ – now bookmarking this guy!

  35. #35 Kel
    February 19, 2009

    So… um… doesn’t this mean that banana’s were artificially selected to “fit” the human hand (ie they are an example of microevolution, ie they are an example of evolution)?

    Given the fruit’s now phallic-like shape, it’s smooth surface, slightly curved, and with a handle for use, I’ve got to say that a banana is much more suited for inter-kingdom erotica. Or is it just a coincidence that it fits there?

    Checkmate atheists!

  36. #36 jmags
    February 19, 2009

    I have watched the banana video about a million times. You should too. It’s instructive in ways that I suspect Ray never imagined.

  37. #37 Tom S. Fox
    February 19, 2009

    Hey, Comfort claimed to have given up on the banana argument!
    Why am I so surprised that he lied?

  38. #38 Holbach
    February 19, 2009

    Moron Comfort should have titled his book “The Banana Book”, and the front and back covers should be illistrated as crackers. Maybe a subtitle would be, “How Bananas Gave Rise To the Cracker”. Crap, I hate having to respond to this crud, as my brain cells tend to ooze with injury.

  39. #39 Josh Evolve
    February 19, 2009

    So I went and checked this book out on Amazon.com and read though the few pages it would allow, i feel that I am a bit worse for ware from it, but I now have my new most favorite Creatard quote;

    ::DRUM ROLL::
    Pg.5
    “atheism is the epitome of stupidity. It’s an intellectual embarrassment”

    this coming form the guy who tries to use Bananas that were genetically manipulated by humans to prove the existence of his god.

    yup, we are the intellectual embarrassment

  40. #40 Tom S. Fox
    February 19, 2009

    I just realized that the positive comment is just satire.

  41. #41 Ichthyic
    February 19, 2009

    my favorite one liner in the reviews:


    If you are religious you will like this book as it allows you to continue bathing in a sea of ignorance.

    -Dr. Gene A. Conroy-jones

    btw, in case it hasn’t been mentioned yet, I do believe Ray is on record as having admitted to no longer believing the “banana postulate”.

    http://goosetheantithesis.blogspot.com/2006/05/ray-comfort-concedes-banana-argument.html

    btw, since the original nationality of Ray was raised, and that it is now mine (sans ray, fortunately), I just wanted to mention that I’ll be leaving today to check out some marine labs in the far North (and hopefully tracking down Clinton Duffy, who is currently looking for white sharks around there), and won’t be back until the 28th.

    Yes, still working on getting blog together. Lots of things to do first, unfortunately.

    :)

    cheers

  42. #42 'Tis Himself
    February 19, 2009

    How does Comfort account for the pineapple?

  43. #43 Wowbagger
    February 19, 2009

    Ichthyic wrote:

    Yes, still working on getting blog together. Lots of things to do first, unfortunately.

    Most mornings are spent clearing the house of all the kiwis*, wekas, wetas, keas, tuataras and kakapos that’ve crept in overnight, huh?

    *The birds, not the people. That tends to happen more in Bondi. Choice, bro!

  44. #44 Ichthyic
    February 19, 2009

    Most mornings are spent clearing the house of all the kiwis*, wekas, wetas, keas, tuataras and kakapos that’ve crept in overnight, huh?

    don’t forget the sandflies!

    http://www.bioone.org/doi/full/10.1603/0022-2585(2000)037%5B0748%3ACSOTMO%5D2.0.CO%3B2#i0022-2585-37-5-748-f01

    I knew those things had steak knives for jaws…

    That tends to happen more in Bondi. Choice, bro!

    Chooooice!

    (I’m currently educating myself on Kiwi language and dialect via watching all seasons of “Outrageous Fortune”)

    I’m currently living in Welly (Newtown), and if you ever make it by, we have a room for ya (and be happy to buy the first round at your fav pub downtown).

  45. #45 Chuck
    February 19, 2009

    Weeelll … as pertains to talking to fundies:

    You can lead a horse to water, but I’ll be damned if I suck on its ass to make it take a drink.

  46. #46 Qwerty
    February 19, 2009

    Ray’s “comfort food” for those uncomfortable with evolution. Of course, he’ll convert lots of atheists, but don’t expect to see any concrete proof of his conversions.

  47. #47 JD
    February 19, 2009

    “The Comfort Zone: 59 Years of Punctuated Stupidity”

  48. #48 Roger
    February 19, 2009

    Does his mama even like him?

  49. #49 JD
    February 19, 2009

    Born Jewish, Comfort was raised with next to no religious experience, having stated, “I went through life without any Christian instruction at all. I think I went to church about three times in about twenty years. I hated it. I found it an insult to my intellect.”

    Err…what intellect?

  50. #50 Wowbagger
    February 19, 2009

    I’m currently living in Welly (Newtown), and if you ever make it by, we have a room for ya (and be happy to buy the first round at your fav pub downtown).

    Awesome. A few of my friends have been over in the last few years and all their talking it up has got me thinking that I really should come and have a look.

  51. #51 Rodger T NZ
    February 19, 2009

    Dr. Comfort’s book is amazing. It may be the best primer for defeating an atheist I’ve ever read. I’m particularly fond of how he proves the existence of God by pointing out the perfection of the banana and the fact that the atmosphere is 78.09% nitrogen and 20.95% oxygen–“the exact mixture that his [Adam’s] lungs and blood needed to survive.”

    That`s pure comedy gold right there ,the motherlode.

  52. #52 Lurkbot
    February 19, 2009

    @ Dahan & Rodger T NZ:

    Dr. Comfort’s book is amazing. It may be the best primer for defeating an atheist I’ve ever read. I’m particularly fond of how he proves the existence of God by pointing out the perfection of the banana and the fact that the atmosphere is 78.09% nitrogen and 20.95% oxygen–“the exact mixture that his [Adam’s] lungs and blood needed to survive.”

    That`s pure comedy gold right there ,the motherlode.

    Purely by coincidence, I am at this very moment reading Peter D. Ward’s book Out of Thin Air: Dinosaurs, Birds, and Earth’s Ancient Atmosphere.

    He deals with how the oxygen content of the atmosphere has fluctuated during the Phanerozoic eon, (from almost 35% to about 12%) and the effect this has had on evolution, particularly the development of new respiratory mechanisms, including the vastly superior ones of dinosaurs (well, saurischians anyway) and birds.

    The evolutionary consequences are a theory, but the atmosphere’s oxygen content has been pretty well-measured now. Does this mean that Adam could only have been created at the one precise moment when oxygen hit 20.95%? Inquiring minds want to know!

  53. #53 cynthax
    February 19, 2009

    I think I finally understand the relevance of standard deviations. The average rating is 2 stars, although not even one person gave it two stars. It’s all either 1 or 5. Which by the way says a lot about the quality(?) of the book.

  54. #54 Soapy Sam's Monkey
    February 19, 2009

    Check out the rest of the General’s reviews on Amazon:

    Reviews Written by
    Gen. JC Christian, Patriot

    I particularly recommend the Playmobil Security Check Point and Godless: The Church of Liberalism.

  55. #55 Cruithne
    February 19, 2009

    If the way a banana fits the human hand is proof of God, then how much more so the penis?

  56. #56 SteveL
    February 19, 2009

    The book is at #569 on Amazon’s bestseller list, ugh. Hopefully the idiots buying it are also clicking on Gen. Christian’s paypal button.

  57. #57 Aquaria
    February 19, 2009

    Is this when I admit that I’ve actually seen the General’s little soldier? He showed it to me himself. ;)

  58. #58 Bone Oboe
    February 19, 2009

    From the Amazon.com reviews:
    “It sure does make atheists angry when logical thought is introduced into the conversation…”

    I…”Logical thought”….Uh.

    What’s that smell? Oh, it’s the ol’ Ironometer. It’s cooked.
    What are we up to now, the argument from cultivated fruit? The Argument from cognitive dissonance? Argument from someone bereft of perception?

  59. #59 Rey Fox
    February 19, 2009

    “don’t forget the sandflies!”

    And the brain-eating ameobas.

  60. #60 Daenyx
    February 19, 2009

    That 5-star review is absolutely hilarious.

  61. #61 Benjamin Geiger
    February 19, 2009

    Slightly off topic:

    This comic might explain why theists think the way they do. (Keep clicking the images.)

  62. #62 LeeLeeOne
    February 19, 2009

    More “off topic”… anyone recognize this?

    “What’s the operative word?”

    “Cuttlefish.”

    fomhcROLFL! with this one.

    Where do they get these lines, anyway?

  63. #63 Kobra
    February 19, 2009

    What pisses me off about Comfort is I took the effort to parody his blog and he switched to a new one.

    http://www.kobrascorner.com/raycumfart

  64. #64 Insightful Ape
    February 19, 2009

    You can lead an FSM denier to evidence, but you can’t make them think.

  65. #65 Kim W
    February 19, 2009

    Somewhat, but not completely off topic. I am searching for a poster or a picture of Charles Darwin that has only this written on it:

    …From so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.”
    ?Charles Darwin
    On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, 1859

    Please help. Kim

  66. #66 Kemist
    February 19, 2009

    How does Comfort account for the pineapple?

    Well…

    This may qualify

    (Is there an addendum to Godwin’s Law for the first person making an Hitler joke in a thread?)

  67. #67 Holbach
    February 19, 2009

    Kim W @ 65

    This may be what you are looking for;
    At Google, type in “so simple a beginning darwin”, then search, then at the list, click on “Images” at the top.
    Quite a few there, and you may find what you need

  68. #68 Alan Macdonald
    February 19, 2009

    I checked all the other reviews, that the Ray Comfort fan club (anyone posting 4 or 5 stars) posted. Except for 2 of the approx 10-12, this was their only review. One of the 2 that did post multiple reviews, seems to have a fondness for watches. Shades of Blind Watchmakers!

  69. #69 Ziztur
    February 19, 2009

    I’m writing up a ridiculously thorough review of Comfort’s book on my own blog – and posting it as blog posts. A little bit of Ray a day to get your blood moving!

  70. #70 Tony Sidaway
    February 19, 2009

    The most favorable comment on Amazon is a blatant Poe.

  71. #72 Evolving Squid
    February 20, 2009

    I have to admit… I read the reviews and the 5-star reviews made me shake my head and say “Jesus Christ”.

  72. #73 Timcol
    February 20, 2009

    The overall rating is down to 2-stars….keep those 1-star reviews coming!

  73. #74 Geoff
    February 20, 2009

    Wow! Good news everyone!

    Any idiot can have a book published.

    oh wait…

  74. #75 szqc
    February 20, 2009

    Aquaria @ 57: Did the “General’s little soldier” you speak of stand up and salute you or something? (cue jokes about second coming and so forth…)

    For other commenters who have not visited Gen JC Christian Patriot, I second the motion to follow them links to a well written but obvious Poe. This does not apply to commenter “frog” (with his/her long tongue in her/his cheek) – from whom I humbly beg for forgiveness for spreading that lie that GJCCP is anything but the real deal :)

  75. #76 Brendan White
    February 20, 2009

    Hoping the bold will help people catch this comment. Everyone who reviews this book should tag it as “Banana Porn” the idea occurred to me after looking at General JC’s webpage.

  76. #77 Gryphin
    February 20, 2009

    Funny thing is, my review has disappeared. Was there this morning, gone tonight. I was pointing out how in his book, Ray Comfort uses “proofs” that have been publicly dismantled, and he himself has disowned. Then, to wonder why he still put them in his new book, when any “skeptic” would have the 10 seconds to google up the argument, and see the results of him proclaiming such fallacies to be logically sound.

  77. #78 BZ
    February 20, 2009

    I think we should just ignore Ray Comfort. The attention, even negative attention, only makes his bloated ego grow bigger.

  78. #79 eddie
    February 20, 2009

    Take that atheists!

    Well, the Spice Girls are hardly nuns either…

  79. #80 Valis
    February 20, 2009

    Sorry for the OT, but I just had to post this: ‘Jesus is referred to as a tool’

    This was a satirical article in a student magazine, which has now been pulled from the shelves because of the “tolerant” xtians. Some quotes from the article:

    “Jesus died to save us from our sins”. – “I bet he feels like a tool now”

    “Praise the Lord, it’s a miracle!” – “No you stupid C.*.*.T. (Christian who Understands No Theorems) statistically they happen every 365 days”

    Some good comments on the story as well:

    If God is so great and wonderful, surely then some silly student mag and its childish humour would not touch him or detract from his greatness. In fact, I haven’t heard much from God himself on the issue; it’s only the narrow-minded, confused Christians who are having heart failure. Pity they apply their own insecurities and limitations to this almighty being that they have such blind faith in…Rather stay in church and pass around the collection plate – something you sheep are good at. Bleat, bleat!!!!

    Then of course the usual retards:

    These people pick on Christians because they know we are forgiving and tolerant and we wont go and petrol bomb their houses, etc.

    That one made me laugh out loud! I wonder what the “etc.” is?

    Sorry again for the OT.

  80. #81 Hugh Troy
    February 20, 2009

    “I think I went to church about three times in about twenty years. I hated it. I found it an insult to my intellect.”

    Ray comfort then realised that he could make a lot of money from the fools who believe in the magic sky fairy and started his The Way of the Master ( Master Con Man)ministry for the fleecing of the most dense believers.
    His proofs of god are so stupid he must be having a laugh at the people he is bilking of their money.
    Either that or Ray Comfort is denser than a neutron star.

  81. #82 Grant
    February 20, 2009

    Check out the Coulter review at the bottom. Nice Poe – surprised PZ didn’t pick up on it.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AAUSVPYNJ8TDZ/ref=cm_pdp_rev_all?ie=UTF8&sort%5Fby=MostRecentReview

  82. #83 clinteas
    February 20, 2009

    I agree,this tool should best be ignored.He’s just too far gone.

  83. #84 GS
    February 20, 2009

    Amazon website is kind enough to provide a naked picture of this moronic fucktard patriot (Watch how he holds his fat):
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/AAUSVPYNJ8TDZ/
    In his own words: “I’m an 11 on the manly scale of absolute gender.”
    His interests: “heterosexuality, jesus, serving Our Leader”

    “Ray Cumfart”, I like that.

  84. #85 GS
    February 20, 2009

    I knew it! General JC Christian is Edward Current!

  85. #86 Walton
    February 20, 2009

    I feel a bit sorry for Ray Comfort.

    Don’t forget, he has very limited education (he doesn’t even have any formal training in theology), and he probably sincerely doesn’t realise how stupid he sounds.

  86. #87 pleasesaymöööö
    February 20, 2009

    Proof of God is everybear, and every beer is proof.

    Getting serious: The banana-proof is magnificent. Of course God is present in every banana. Now I’m getting the grasp of this omnipotenciality-business!

    So there might probably also be a “gospel of the Banana” hidden somwhere in Israel. Could explain a lot!

  87. #88 Scott Campbell
    February 20, 2009

    I had the “pleasure” of debating Comfort on one of our Toronto radio stations last week for Darwin Day. It was an interesting experience to say the least. If you want to hear it, you will find it on my blog, http://www.theformerfundie.wordpress.com.

    Unfortunately, there was no time to talk about the banana!

  88. #89 Tom Morris
    February 20, 2009

    A particularly amusing section of one the positive, non-Poe-ish reviews:

    “First of all, an atheist who actually reads this book is going to see how much science and good information it has, and will not give this book a bad rating just for disagreeing with him. An atheist who is open minded enough to read this book will give a thoughtful and thought provoking review, and at least 3 stars for the well documented text.”

  89. #90 Aquaria
    February 20, 2009

    Aquaria @ 57: Did the “General’s little soldier” you speak of stand up and salute you or something? (cue jokes about second coming and so forth…)

    It was difficult to tell what his intentions were. I didn’t have my glasses on that day, and after a certain point, it’s hard for me to see things.

  90. #91 GunOfSod
    February 20, 2009

    Dear Sirs and lady Sirs as a long time fan of the Generals blog. I would highly recommend his pithy and intellectual commentaries.

    I find his “wide stance” manliness and turgid repartee, to be of great comfort to me during those, uncomfortable, times I am not in church.

    Some of the dis-respect offered here makes my nipples harden, in a self righteous non-prevert way.

  91. #92 arachnophilia
    February 20, 2009

    apparently he drew material from his blog? i wonder if i’m quoted. could be interesting.

    commenting on that blog was so, so frustrating. i succeded in drawing him into a discussion or two, but he never actually listened to what i had to say. and misrepresented what i said numerous times.

    for instance, during his anti-abortion tirade, i tried to explain exactly what the legal standard is in the US and why it exists, without taking any moral stance on it whatsoever, and got portrayed as a babykiller.

    even though i stated several times that:
    1. i’m a man, and have never had an abortion.
    2. that i understand reasons why people would not like abortion, and there are other methods to advocate against it besides the law
    3. that i don’t particularly like the idea myself, but cannot tell someone else what to do with her body.
    4. that this is strictly a question of government jurisdiction, or rather the lack thereof. and,
    5. using examples of late term fetuses isn’t especially applicable, since that’s illegal just about everywhere.

    oh, and the one that REALLY bothered them:

    6. i’m not an atheist. i’m actually a christian.

  92. #93 Thoughtful Guy
    February 20, 2009

    The Banana man strikes again! LOL

  93. #94 ArchangelChuck
    February 20, 2009

    Haha! Whoever said General JC is Ed Current… Well said. I really enjoyed the Coulter comment, especially that Gen. JC referred to her as “Mr. Coulter.”

  94. #95 Lancelot Link
    February 20, 2009

    btw, in case it hasn’t been mentioned yet, I do believe Ray is on record as having admitted to no longer believing the “banana postulate”.

    What, did someone slip him a plantain?

  95. #96 phantomreader42
    February 20, 2009

    Brendan White @ #76:

    Everyone who reviews this book should tag it as “Banana Porn” the idea occurred to me after looking at General JC’s webpage.

    Much like how I’ve made a point of tagging everything Amazon has by Ken Ham with “piglet rapist

  96. #97 Chan Fu
    February 20, 2009

    ermmmm… Who else has noticed that all the “favorable” reviews are satirical/ironical, the good General’s being one of the more subtle? Though, I think Landover Baptist outdoes the General’s blog by a few orders of magnitude… http://www.landoverbaptist.org

  97. #98 David Marjanovi?, OM
    February 20, 2009

    So… um… doesn’t this mean that banana’s were artificially selected to “fit” the human hand (ie they are an example of microevolution, ie they are an example of evolution)?

    Quite so. Wild bananas (found in New Guinea) consist mostly of hard seeds. Domestic bananas have no seeds whatsoever, they have to be propagated vegetatively, means, by cloning?

  98. #99 catgirl
    February 20, 2009

    Ok, I’m not an atheist, but I certainly hate bad logic. I almost wish that someone would use the banana argument with me. I would love to ask why oranges, the most delicious fruit, are so much more difficult than bananas. I bet the person would really by stymied with that one. Actually, someone should ask this of Comfort in public, just to see the confused look on his face. Now, I must re-read the 5-star review from the perspective of knowing that it is satire.

  99. #100 Jason R
    February 20, 2009

    If I wasn’t such an honest and moral athiest, I’d have to write a creationist book. There’s a lot of money in the utter silliness of religious books.

  100. #101 Natalie
    February 20, 2009

    The review by “JC Christian” is obviously parody, but I have actually heard a creationist make a similar argument, completely seriously.

    When I was a teenager and spent far too much of my life at a coffee shop, I struck up an acquaintanceship with another wayward teenager at the coffeeshop, who turned out to be a creationist. At one point he seriously claimed as evidence for God the fact that the 8 elements humans need to survive are the elements that are present in the greatest quantities in the earth’s crust.* At no point had it occurred to him that he had reversed the causation, and unfortunately I was not articulate enought at the time to formulate the most effective counterargument I probably could have. I do think I eventually explained to him how his thinking was potentially wrong.

    *I have no idea if the whole “8 elements” bit is actually correct, and I don’t care. I now recognize every argument this kid trotted out as the standard crap creationists distribute in church and on the web. At one point he might have used a variation on the tornado/junkyard/747 argument.

  101. #102 Clint
    February 20, 2009

    Bananas are not perfect… they go bad after two days.

  102. #103 Andrew
    February 20, 2009

    Re: Scott @ #88

    I tried to listen to the debate but gave up in disgust after a few minutes.

    This ties into all that has been posted here and said elsewhere about debating creationists (e.g.,Prof. Gotelli’s masterful reply): Ray Comfort and the others are liars. Simple as that. They don’t want to debate, they aren’t interested in truth and when they say they are, they lie and they know they’re lying.

    So much for Christians like Ray et al being moral. They are not. They’re crooks. Comfort is not stupid nor is he ignorant. Over the years he has probably received a more thorough education in evolutionary theory than most MSc candidates in Evolutionary Biology.

    When these guys say they “haven’t seen the evidence for evolution” they’re lying. When they say there are “no transitional fossils”, they are lying and they know it.

    They want the money and the fame. Period. Instead of offering you interest on Nigerian Royal Family Petrodollars shetered in your personal bank account in return for a small “processing fee”, these guys are selling lies and keys to a kingdom that doesn’t exist. They’re not interested in evolution or Jesus, except to the point that they can line their pockets.

  103. #104 phantomreader42
    February 20, 2009

    Andrew @ #103:

    They don’t want to debate, they aren’t interested in truth and when they say they are, they lie and they know they’re lying.

    Yep, fraud is their religion. Lies are their god. Their entire worldview is built on falsehood propping up falsehood. Their only goal in these “debates” is to spread lies.

    I said this in the Goteli thread:

    You babble about “debate” but the truth is creationist fuckwits like you don’t want a debate. You want a sideshow. You want a chance to spew bullshit to the gullible to reinforce their delusions. You want to lie in public. You’ve been told repeatedly to present your evidence in the peer-reviewed scientific journals, but you flee in abject terror because you know you don’t HAVE any evidence. You keep saying you have evidence, but you never present anything worthy of the name. You could try debating with actual scientists in front of an educated audience at scientific conventions. But you won’t. Because you know you’d be laughed off the stage. You know that people who know what the fuck they’re talking about will expose your lies and make it obvious what frauds you are. Your only hope is to confuse the gullible. You are despicable ghouls, spreading your toxic stench everywhere you go, taking advantage of innocent people to spread your propaganda. Go fuck yourself.

  104. #105 davem
    February 20, 2009

    The more I hear of Ray Comfort’s arguments, the more that I think that Ray himself is the best Poe ever.

  105. #106 black wolf
    February 20, 2009

    Is the banana thing actually in this book? Because Ray states explicitly and at multiple times on his blog and in recorded interviews and discussions that it’s ‘really a satire’ (no, really really) and was always intended as such. And of course that we humorless atheists wouldn’t have noticed…

  106. #107 arachnophilia
    February 20, 2009

    only because of how much flak he got over it.

    take this as evidence that if they say something stupid enough, and we make fun of them over it enough, they’ll eventually be forced into recanting.

    he meant it, and he still means it. he just now realizes how silly it sounds, so he doesn’t use it anymore (especially considering that bananas such as his were artificially selected for and don’t grow that way naturally, but i don’t suspect he knows that). but you know he still believes it.

  107. #108 black wolf
    February 20, 2009

    #102 Clint,
    Ray also uses that in his argument. He says that because we can see them going bad by their turning to brown, we know when to eat them. Because see, we were created to be good at telling yellow from brown so that we’d notice.

  108. #109 Andrew
    February 20, 2009

    @pr42 et al.

    It (the deliberate mendacity of creationists) never hit me with such force as when lisatenind the the interview linked to at #88. I don’t know why, I’ve read Demski, watched Ham and it is clear that Behe was once a real scientist who understood some biochem…but Comfort’s transparent lying about the museum in Paris just set off an epiphany that made all the arguments and counter-arguments slip away, eclipsed by the realisation: they lie these creationists, they will always lie; and if God himself came down and showed them exactly how He had structured the interplay of mutation, selection, adaptation and drift and showed them each preserved mutation from proto-bacterium to lying evangelist, they’d say He had violated the 2nd Law and go back to stroking their bananas, if it meant they could sell another book or video.

    Anyway, there’s a great thread on this topic at Panda’s Thumb:

    http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/02/it-would-help-i.html

  109. #110 Steve
    February 20, 2009

    What discipline does Comfort have a doctorate in? Wow, anything Ken Ham thinks is good, well hell, it just must be hilarious. Like his theme park.

  110. #111 C. L. Hanson
    February 20, 2009

    I’m really glad you’ve highlighted this review! General J. C. writes so many hilarious letters to conservative religious public figures, and this review is really a masterpiece!!!

    (I think people here have all figured it out by now, but, yes, it’s a parody.)

  111. #112 Diane
    February 20, 2009

    I loved the general’s comments – and his picture! He did put me in the mind of EddieCurrent also like Kel said. But calling Rush Limbaugh a “big hairy wookie” made me think of a certain science blogger that makes me laugh – almost as good as “babbling bilge-belching bliss ninnies”, and other such charming jewels.

  112. #113 Jake
    February 20, 2009

    Oh let’s be serious, that 5 Star review is a Poe. If you can’t detect it, then your humour metres are broken.

  113. #114 Dennis
    February 20, 2009

    Hah- I like how the “best helpful review” mentioned the Banana argument.

  114. #115 Steve
    February 20, 2009

    I think the review is a poe (if I am using that word correctly). If you click on the “other reviews” link next to his name, you are forwarded to about five other reviews written in the same vein that are clearly not intended to be serious.

  115. #116 arachnophilia
    February 20, 2009

    @Steve: (#110)

    What discipline does Comfort have a doctorate in? Wow, anything Ken Ham thinks is good, well hell, it just must be hilarious. Like his theme park.

    that one (obviously poe) review is the first i’ve heard about it. does he actually claim anywhere to have a doctorate?

  116. #117 Walton
    February 20, 2009

    Comfort doesn’t have a doctorate, or any academic degrees at all. He doesn’t even have any formal training in theology. Check his Wikipedia article.

  117. #118 black wolf
    February 20, 2009

    #109 Andrew,
    I get exactly the same impression. I’ve read the PT thread and listened to a few of Comfort’s current interviews, knowing his stuff from his blog for a longer time. Canned responses to filed phrases and keywords. No honesty, understanding, interest, progress or character involved. They’ve learned since Gish that they can be money-making robots. Be refuted, turn around, sell the same stuff somewhere else. When the dust settles, return, press reset, start over. Once or twice a year, modify an old argument to adapt to new counter-evidence (same argument, slightly different phrasing with inserted new terms). Repeat until bank account sufficiently full, retire, enjoy barbecue at poolside.
    The people who bought all those books and believed you, thinking you were equipping them to save the world’s souls? Sheesh, get real, who ever cared about those fools. No such thing as an afterlife, would I be buying houses and cars and making it nice for my descendants if I believed in that rapture crap? Souls? Repentance? Bull. Get me another T-Bone honey, and another Beck’s for my guest here.

  118. #119 Kevembuangga
    February 20, 2009

    Interesting bimodal distribution of the ratings.
    Kinda “communication problem” or what?
    LOL…

  119. #120 shonny
    February 20, 2009

    That is Dick Cheney’s head on the Gen.’s avatar, innit?

  120. #121 Alpha Hedgehog
    February 20, 2009

    Ray Comfort, pah! The late Mitch Hedberg kicks Comfort?s butt in the ?obscure facts about bananas? department:

    ?On a stop light green means go, red means stop and yellow means slow down, but on a banana it’s just the opposite. Green means hold on, yellow means go ahead, and red means, ‘where the fuck did you get that banana at?’ ?

    Mitch made a career out of being ridiculous, so has Comfort. The difference is Mitch did it intentionally? and everyone was laughing *with* him.

  121. #122 Tom L
    February 20, 2009

    I’m still waiting for Comfort to make the St. Bernard argument. (To wit: The neck of a St. Bernard, as anyone knows, is just exactly the right size to hold that cute little cask of brandy when doing alpine search and rescue. Is that God guy thinking ahead, or what?)

  122. #123 AndyD
    February 20, 2009

    It seems Comfort is now challenging Richard Dawkins to a “debate” (pfft!) and has also finally erected his “Darwin=Atheist=someone who believes nothing made everything” billboard

  123. #124 Cactus Wren
    February 20, 2009

    What a miracle of chance that oxygen existed in just the right percentage to maintain Adam’s life, and the life of his wife, whom we will give the generic name “Eve”. She needed to be around the procreate the Adamic race. It’s another amazing miracle that she evolved (with lungs) by chance over millions of years to maturity, at the same time as Adam.

    It was also an amazing coincidence that gravity existed at the time of their evolution. Without it, the first man and his first mate would have spun off into the infinitude of space. But for some reason it evolved and matured at just the right time to keep their feet firmly planted on the earth, which also evolved.

    I begin to suspect that Comfort is himself a Poe.

  124. #125 Kel
    February 21, 2009

    “All I ask is that he goes into a studio and gives me 20 minutes on why there is no God and why evolution is scientific.”
    For fucks sake!

  125. #126 astrounit
    February 21, 2009

    Walton, #117: “Comfort doesn’t have a doctorate, or any academic degrees at all. He doesn’t even have any formal training in theology.”

    Neither do I. But the lack doesn’t give me any urge to write silly books or send me into a coma of abject stupidity.

    If pieces of paper are what gives people their rationality and intelligence (they’re on sale and available in any 100 spam email messages, or one can do it the hard way and earn one at college or university) do you imagine that if Comfort acquired one, he would renounce his book?

    Of course not. He wrote the book he wrote NOT because he has no academic credentials, but because he’s a jackass.

  126. #127 ChrisC
    February 21, 2009

    I disagree with PZ on this one. The best review was the following 1 liner:

    “This is the only book that I ever read that made me envious of the illiterate.”

    Best. Review. Ever.

  127. #128 arachnophilia
    February 21, 2009

    @astrounit: (#126) i have no formal training in theology either, and yet i still know he’s full of shit. cause, you know, i’ve read a book or two. also, the bible.

  128. #129 alnilam
    February 21, 2009

    No wonder the world of humans is in such a tragic condition.
    I never was religious and grew up in a home completely free of God. My life is still full of the magic of reality and existence, natural laws and wonders from the seemingly limitless universe down to the menace of quantum physics and the complexity of squids and psychology and… just to mention. The world is really awesome!

    And when I see what kind of delirious nonsense religions produce, and the masses of nice people who bow down for this stupidity i get really sad. This hurts! How are we going to get out of this rat-trap?

    Why do people fall for this? We know. It’s probably the comfortable easy way out of making (sometimes desperately needed) critical investigations into reality? This book solves it all! Have faith!

    SHAMELESS COMFORT? NO WAY! NO MORE SHIT!

    Love all critical thinkers!

  129. #130 KI
    February 21, 2009

    Brown bananas are bad? I’ll bet he makes the driest banana bread in the world.

  130. #131 Paliban Mom
    February 24, 2009

    I have to say, I’m surprised that PZ never mentioned that Comfort’s anti-atheist tour de force was Amazon’s top seller in the ATHEIST category, at least back on February 14.

    Comfort knocked “The God Delusion” to #2. Sorry, Tricky Dicky Dawkins!

  131. #132 Janine, Ignorant Slut
    February 24, 2009

    Paliban Mom, you are so late to the party. You kind of have to post on the most recent or most active threads.

    So Comfort’s book is number one in the atheist category. Even atheists love some low comedy.

  132. #133 Zar
    March 2, 2009

    One thing I’ve noticed is that the Amazon reviews are now rigged. It seems a lit of Militant Atheists want to basically ruin this book by giving it bad reviews, but its clear that the majority of the negative reviews of this book (Which has just been released) have not actually read it, but get their information about its contents form either other Amaxon reviewers or posters on blogs, like this one , or Richard Dawkins.Net.

    I find this rather reprehensable. You shoudln’t review a book you haven’t read for the sole purpose f makin it look bad becaus eyou want to push your own agenda.

  133. #134 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    March 2, 2009

    Zar, your concern is noted. If your buddies on the right/Xian never did that, you would have a point. As it is, your hypocrisy shines through your post. Your concern is rejected.

  134. #135 GB of Dallas
    March 6, 2009

    Which is easier to believe: Everything was made by the infinite or everything was made by nothing?

  135. #136 Kel
    March 6, 2009

    Which is easier to believe: Everything was made by the infinite or everything was made by nothing?

    That everything is infinite. Given what we know about cosmology, spacetime, the relationship between matter and energy, and about biology – the concept of Ray Comfort’s god is nothing more than an infantile explanation for things that are already known.

  136. #137 Numad
    March 6, 2009

    “Which is easier to believe: Everything was made by the infinite or everything was made by nothing?”

    It’s easier to believe that the premise that “everything was made” is superfluous.

  137. #138 GB of Dallas
    March 6, 2009

    “It’s easier to believe that the premise that “everything was made” is superfluous.”

    My young grandson would be right with you in your thinking. He thinks everything just is.

    Unless it is infinite, a “something” is the subset of something greater. We have somethings therefore there must be an infinite something. Since we know from our own experience that there are dimensions beyond the physical. So, that infinite something must be infinite in all dimensions.

  138. #139 Acer
    March 6, 2009

    Well, well well … all you ‘knuckle draggers’ in here, the joke will be on YOU soon enough. All you ignorant evolutionist with all your BIG words have only proven what fools you are. “The FOOL hath said in his heart there is no God.” So carry on! You’re doing a fantastic job believing that everything just popped into existence from nothing. Ha ha ha!

  139. #140 E.V.
    March 6, 2009

    I think we’ve found the idiots who buy Comfort’s books or they’ve found us to be more precise. As a former Christian I can say these goofballs are certainly denser than your average believer, and they are completely unaware of how uninformed they are. Ignorance is bliss and these are some superlatively blissful Christians. (The old fart from Dallas wants to create a new fallacy, an argument from age)

  140. #141 Acer
    March 6, 2009

    Hey E.V., Superlatively blissful Christian here.

    You can call us ‘Christians’ whatever you so chose. I’m all for Freedom Of Speech. Doesn’t bother me one bit what someone calls me, or refers to me as being. But when judgement day comes, and it will come, remember that ‘you’ foolishly chose to give up ‘your’ salvation which doomed your eternal soul to Hell. You have done it to yourself. There is no coming back once you’ve renounced your Christianity! And no amount of praying or begging will be able to save you now! So in the end, we’ll see who is the “Uninformed” idiot (your choice of word) and who’s superlatively blissful …. that would be me!

  141. #142 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 6, 2009

    But when judgement day comes, and it will come, remember that ‘you’ foolishly chose to give up ‘your’ salvation which doomed your eternal soul to Hell. You have done it to yourself. There is no coming back once you’ve renounced your Christianity! And no amount of praying or begging will be able to save you now! So in the end, we’ll see who is the “Uninformed” idiot (your choice of word) and who’s superlatively blissful …. that would be me!

    Idiotic version of Pascal’s Wager #2,958,5785,463

  142. #143 Bernard Bumner
    March 6, 2009

    Oh no! The Bogeyman will come and get us!

  143. #144 Rev. BigDumbChimp
    March 6, 2009

    Yeah extra digit in there. Whoops. Typos

    Still same meaning

  144. #145 Knockgoats
    March 6, 2009

    But when judgement day comes, and it will come, remember that ‘you’ foolishly chose to give up ‘your’ salvation which doomed your eternal soul to Hell. You have done it to yourself. There is no coming back once you’ve renounced your Christianity! And no amount of praying or begging will be able to save you now! So in the end, we’ll see who is the “Uninformed” idiot (your choice of word) and who’s superlatively blissful …. that would be me! – Acer

    What an evil, disgusting psychopathic sadist you are, Acer, gloating over the prospect of someone being eternally tortured. Just like the imaginary monster you worship.

  145. #146 E.V.
    March 6, 2009

    Acer:
    Your “nanny nanny boo boo” reply was hysterical. You’re words say ” I’m a fair minded person” but your subtext says “rot in hell you bastards.” This all just pisses you off to no end doesn’t it?

    Yeah, Acer, I stopped believing in Santa Claus as well, but the presents still keep coming, ain’t life grand?

  146. #147 SteveM
    March 6, 2009

    There is no coming back once you’ve renounced your Christianity!

    So the parable of “The Prodigal Son” meant nothing to you?
    Do you even know what it means to be Christian? No, you spiteful hateful turd of a human.

  147. #148 Acer
    March 6, 2009

    No … The bogeyman won’t come and get you Bernard, and Rev.BigDumbChimp, you’ll both be sent to him! Be sure to look for me on judgement day. I’ll be the one on the opposite side standing behind the ONE that created everything. And you’ll be behind your father, the “Bogeyman” as you called him.

    And you folks think us Christians are insane? heh heh heh … We’ll see soon enough who’s right and who’s wrong. Selah!

  148. #149 Janine, Insulting Sinner
    March 6, 2009

    Acer, are you looking forward to smelling the sweet smell of eternally burning human carcasses. I hear that is a sublime pleasure.

  149. #150 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    March 6, 2009

    Acer is an end of the world fundie? Don’t be surprised if humans and the earth aren’t still going several million years from now. After all, your god doesn’t exist and your bible is book of fiction. Reality is not for delusion people.

  150. #151 Acer
    March 6, 2009

    “So the parable of “The Prodigal Son” meant nothing to you?
    Do you even know what it means to be Christian? No, you spiteful hateful turd of a human.”

    SteveM: Oooo … Spiteful, hateful Christian here once again.

    Such word calling in here, lol! Oh .. my feelings are hurt! Boo Hoo Hoo. NOT!

    I don’t need anyone to ‘school me’ on the “Prodigal Son” parable. If you actually knew anything about what this parable was about you’d know that the son that left wasn’t saved UNTIL his return home.

    And if there is no God, then why are you even bringing up His word. Because if there is no God, then the Bible is just another book of no consequence to you knuckle draggers.

    Okay … I’ll leave you people to gloat and bathe in your own self righteousness. See ya, definitely wouldn’t want ta be ya!

  151. #152 Nerd of Redhead, OM
    March 6, 2009

    Bye Acer, don’t let the door hit you on the way out you delusional fundie hypocrite.

  152. #153 E.V.
    March 6, 2009

    We’ll see soon enough who’s right and who’s wrong. Selah!

    Actually no we won’t, specifically you won’t. When you loose consciousness there will be no more sensory input. You’ll have no awareness because your brain has ceased to function (which can be argued that for you it already has for the most part). Your personality (nasty though it is) will no longer exist, your tissues will begin to break down and someone will pump your body full of chemicals to stave off putrefication and put you in a box to bury you or they’ll cremate you and put your ashes in a little canister. Any way you slice it, Homes, you won’t be able to see, feel, taste, hear, smell or think.
    So a hearty fuck you to you fine religious person and your delusions. And Selah! back at you.

  153. #154 Bernard Bumner
    March 6, 2009

    The worst that is going to happen to me after I die is that I’ll become worm-shit.

    (Actually, I suppose there is a small chance that my body will be defiled by a pervert in front of my close friends and family, but I won’t be around to see it.)

  154. #155 Knockgoats
    March 6, 2009

    There is no coming back once you’ve renounced your Christianity! – Acer@141

    If you actually knew anything about what this parable was about you’d know that the son that left wasn’t saved UNTIL his return home. – Acer@151

    That is, until he came back. Can’t even keep your story straight, can you Acer, you stupid psychopathic scumbucket?

  155. #156 E.V.
    March 6, 2009

    ach! lose not loose, perhapse a freudian slip, no?

  156. #157 SteveM
    March 6, 2009

    And if there is no God, then why are you even bringing up His word. Because if there is no God, then the Bible is just another book of no consequence to you knuckle draggers.

    I bring it up because you claim it has meaning to you. You are the one who said, “there is no coming back”, yet your own Jesus says that anything can be forgiven. You are an idiot who knows nothing of your own religion.

  157. #158 Numad
    March 7, 2009

    GB of Dallas,

    I’m not going to bother with strings of nonsense from you if you don’t make an effort to consider my simple point.

    Goodbye.

  158. #159 Numad
    March 7, 2009

    After all, my point doesn’t clash at all with the idea that everything finite in time has a cause. The universe itself needs not have had a cause, since it could be infinite in time. Also, there’s the lame confusion of cause and creation, but that’s enough time wasted.

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