UAW Petition Filed with the University of California to Unionize Postdocs

Sheesh. The last thing I'd have wanted when I was a post-doc is to be beholden to the UAW.

Unionizing post-docs is an idea to be discussed -- but having them now responsible to another gigantic impersonal huge national organization simply seems like a stupid idea.

I seem to remember some discussion back when I was a grad student of uninonizing grad students under the teamesters. Also sounds like a bad idea.

-Rob

The last thing I'd have wanted when I was a post-doc is to be beholden to the UAW.

That's what the University would like you to believe.

When I was a grad student at Columbia U., there was a big fight about grad student unionization. Columbia, faced with the prospect of angry grad students started to give us all sorts of things. Money for meetings, help with day care ... all due to the threat of unions.

Without knowing the details I'm all for UC post-docs unionizing. It means that the schools will have to cut back on positions and that is a good thing for us private institutes. I suppose that day care help will be a good thing. Still, the whole financial side of this system is a bit of a house of cards for us small fish. Changing the system could really hurt us. What I don't understand is why this wasn't sorted out when NIH had lots of money. We really dropped the ball on that one. Instead of fixing the system we squandered the money into funding big research and now we are generally screwed.

Unions have such a bad name in the US, I guess the anti-union forces have won the PR campaign within the public forum - I'm not sure about academics (PIs etc.). No doubt the schools will fight.

Without knowing the details I'm all for UC post-docs unionizing. It means that the schools will have to cut back on positions and that is a good thing for us private institutes.

Very cynical.

What I don't understand is why this wasn't sorted out when NIH had lots of money. We really dropped the ball on that one. Instead of fixing the system we squandered the money into funding big research and now we are generally screwed.

Very true. They tried - the NIH guidelines for postdoc pay did go up. But for our education level, we still are payed pretty crappy. Then they wonder why American kids don't go into science.

The last thing I'd have wanted when I was a post-doc is to be beholden to the UAW.

That's what the University would like you to believe.

Er, no, that was my own feelings on the matter.

I know that "rah union" is the bandwagon thinking in liberal circles. And, indeed, I'm not rejecting the idea of post-docs unionizing! I'm putting myself back in the shoes of me as a post-doc and thinking about being beholden to another gigantic political bureaucracy.

-Rob

A union that has strong protections for union democracy and an engaged membership is not another group its members should be beholden to. Now is that the UAW in this situation? I don't know. Their fight at NYU to keep the TA union they have has been pretty poor. As for negotiating, any contract can and should be written that a post-doc can get a better deal if they so want but set minimums that can't be taken away. If the UAW is smart, they would force the university to pay for any increases in stipends not provided in a PI's grant while holding the line on overhead costs. It would put universities on the front lines of pushing for better pay for post-docs. Right now they have no real incentive to be part of that fight. PIs would be more likely to support it as well since the money is not coming out of their grants or if it did, it would correspond to an increase in the grant.

As for grad student unions, I think the fatal mistake they have made in the sciences is to push for a traditional employee union. The concerns I have seen amongst my fellow grad students is that we are treated like employees and not enough like the students we want to be. They should organize strong student associations or student unions to improve the educational experience and provide protections to keep grad students as exactly that which includes providing the resources to allow a grad student to develop beyond just at research. What we need more of are scientists who can engage the world around them.

Ni Hao! Kannichi Wa!The move to unionize science students and researchers is further testimony to how far science including basic research has moved from concept-based practice of basic science by individuals or small teams of interactive individuals to data production mills staffed by wage and hourly workers alienated from the end product with little interest beyond a paycheck and benefits and the 5 o'clock whistle so they can get home to other interests.Well put above---unionized mill workers can be expected to be treated as such with little regard for their science or development into scientists which is the tradeoff for low pay and long hours in the first place.Perhaps we also need a PI union to demand better treatment by the peer review system and funding.MOTYR