Belief doesn’t protect you from being maimed by swords

Last week, our friendly neighborhood germ theory denier told us that:

A thing can only be a problem as long as you believe in it.
Now, think and don’t stop before you’ve seen the light. (Hint: think of evil witches, dragons, ghosts etc. Do you believe in them? Yes? Then they’re a problem for you. No? Then you laugh about them). (emphasis in original)

Well, just in case you needed further assurance that this kind of magical thinking is just wrong, Evil Monkey has a rather graphic demonstration up of just how incredibly, and painfully, wrong it is:

…by aligning one’s energy and going through ritualized moves, objects, chants, and breathing, one can prepare his or her mind and body to ward off blows. From swords.

Video included, though as he notes, if you don’t like blood, don’t watch.

Comments

#1 Gary
October 1, 2007

I love the term “magical thinking”. I use it a lot and to me it is the best expression I know of to describe irational thinking. The belief that germs can be overcome by thoughts is really no different than belief in ghosts and goblins.
#2 Chris Noble
October 1, 2007

The standard response to this would be the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.

The guy in the video (I am not going to watch it) obviously did not believe strongly enough. He must have had some residual doubts.

The leading proponent of the corresponding form of AIDS Denial is or was Caspar Schmidt with his “Group-Fantasy” theory of AIDS.

Unfortunately not believing that HIV causes AIDS did not save Caspar Schmidt from AIDS. This dramatic disproof of course has not changed the minds of the “open-minded” AIDS rethinkers.
#3 Alan Kellogg
October 1, 2007

Actually, there is one thing that absolutely prevents damage from a sword, distance. The swordsman can’t hit you, the swordsman can’t hurt you.
#4 jspreen
October 2, 2007

Hi hi hi..

One more time my heresies are promoted and have become the subject of a blog entry. My oh my, am I proud of the achievement !

But, Tara, where did I write that one just needs not to fear a sword, a bullet, a tiger or whatever to be out of reach of such dangers? I mean, before one can pretend to be without fear, there’s a lot of work to do. I fear the sword and the bullet and have no clue about how I could ever manage to be without fear for such things.

Now, being afraid of HIV and H5N1 is a totally different thing. I mean, the idea that HIV and H5N1 are life- threatening, or even simply more or less dangerous, is a tale for the five year old and when the story makes me smile, it’s not only because I don’t believe the tale but because I perfectly know it’s pure bullshit. Especially the H5N1 avian flu thing. ROTFWL!!

Look at the banner on top of this page:

Nature reports “Avian flu”.
The news behind the science, the science behind the news

And on the right side of the banner:

Produced with …. An unrestricted educational grant from GlaxoSmithKline….

Yeah, of course. GSK, provider of the flu vaccin educates the inhabitants of the planet what to fear so they can then propose the perfect solution. Why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
#5 wheatdogg
October 2, 2007

Sounds like the snake handlers in some deep South churches. Faith can protect you from venom. Faith can also heal the faithful from cancer, diabetes and being in crushing debt. If you are still ill or poor (or dead), your faith was weak.

jspreen — Parents used to scare their children with tales of polio epidemics. Funny thing, though, there really were polio epidemics and children really did get sick. Perhaps it was all a mass delusion, or a plot by big pharma to indoctrinate us into believing polio was dangerous. I’m afraid I don’t have your faith (or belief) that HIV/AIDS and bird flu are harmless. I guess I must be among the Fallen.
#6 jspreen
October 2, 2007

there really were polio epidemics and children really did get sick

Yes, of course. But the cause of the epidemics was not a polio virus.
#7 noreen
October 2, 2007

Try the opposite to positive thinking, think sicknesses and that every germ will do one in and see how long it will take for one to become sick. The mind is certainly paramount to remaining healthy, along with a healthy life-style. Why do you think that many of us can survive HIV without antiretrovilas? We do not accept it as a death sentence but it takes more than a good attitude, it must be followed with clean living.
#8 apy
October 2, 2007

jspreen says:

I fear the sword and the bullet and have no clue about how I could ever manage to be without fear for such things.

This ‘logic’ makes absolutely no sense. If you know not having a fear of something makes it unable to harm you then why would you ever fear anything? If you are arguing that knowing about a bullet makes you now fearful of it so the magic is gone then you can’t really believe what you say.

I would also argues that all those African tribes, Native Americans and other people colonized by the Europeans did not know what guns or bullets were, or smallpox, or any of the several disease that the Europeans brought with them, but that did not seem to stop the Europeans from killing off huge amounts of the population with them.
#9 Calli Arcale
October 2, 2007

He’s not arguing that having no fear of bullets makes you immune to them. He’s arguing that if a particular thing can’t hurt you in and of itself, only fear of the thing can hurt you — therefore, if you don’t fear the thing that can’t hurt you, you won’t be hurt by it.

Obviously, he does not believe the overwhelming evidence that pathogens cause a great many diseases, such as HIV causing AIDS, and that therefore what really must be causing AIDS is people being afraid of HIV (which he seems to think is harmless).

Of course, this fails to explain why HIV-positive people died of AIDS before they knew that HIV was responsible for their AIDS. It’s awfully hard to argue a psychosomatic disorder in people who don’t know that they’re supposed to be getting sick.
#10 Pastor Billy-Reuben
October 2, 2007

That fellow’s problem was that he relied on demons (chi) to protect him, instead of relying on the Holy Spirit to protect him. I can’t be certain, but I am certain that I saw a demon fly out of that man at the last minute, just so it could sit back and cackle with glee as the man sliced his own arm open.

Demons are unreliable and you can’t trust them. God always answers prayer, only sometimes the answer is no.

jspreen says: “But the cause of the epidemics was not a polio virus.”

Amen! There are only two things that cause disease – sin and lack of sin. Disease is given to folks as punishment or as a test.

Pastor Billy-Reuben
LandoverBaptist.net
#11 apy
October 2, 2007

jspreen certainly makes no attempt at correct my misunderstanding:

You shouldn’t write down the first thing that pops up into your brain within half a second of reflexion. In my previous message I told you to not stop thinking before you saw the light, remember? Anyway, you may try to not believe in a bullet or to not fear an agressive crook with a gun, but I figure you won’t get far. Which doesn’t totally exclude the eventuality that somewhere on the globe a person exists who mastered that trick and who has no bullet to fear. But a guy who just started a judo course shouldn’t immediately try to floor a black ribbon so let’s do some steps backwards and try to figure out an easier example.

http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2007/09/loneliness_causes_aids_claims.php#comment-581062
#12 Jim
October 2, 2007

“Yes, of course. But the cause of the epidemics was not a polio virus.”

Then what did cause it, jspreen? Bad thoughts? Malnutrition? Evil spirits? Are different diseases caused by different proportions of each or is it random?

My God you are pathetic. HIV denialism-fine. I can understand why the emotional impact would make one want to bury their head in the sand. But Polio? Poliovirus is one of the best characterized viral systems. It’s readily isolated from patients. It’s eaily grown to high titers in culture and the irradication campaign is nearly complete. I think Cooler would even agree you’re wrong on Polio (I would hope).
#13 apy
October 2, 2007

Don’t stop thinking until you see the light Jim, even if it blinds you, apparently.
#14 jspreen
October 2, 2007

My God you are pathetic. HIV denialism-fine.

Hi, hi, hi. I love this forum. Look at the other threads: If you’re a HIV denier they call you all sorts of names. But if you go a little further and dare say that not only the tale about HI-Virus is BS, but also the one about H5N1 and the polio-virus, HIV denial is suddenly OK. I’m not pathetic, you so-called scientists are. Or would you think it conceivable that if the HIV=Aids=Death equation is a lie, it would be just an isolated error? Of course not. Such a grotesque blunder can only exist if everything is wrong. And of course, everything is wrong. The whole germ theory is nuts. Medicine has gone wild since Louis Pasteur. Not only polio is not cause by a virus, not one single disease is caused by a germ.

This is a great thread though. I say something about a problem becoming one simply because people believe in baby- talk, like the stupid avian flu pandemic, and what do the science hillbillies come up with: a body mutilated by a sword!!! Ha! ha! ha!
#15 factician
October 2, 2007

Luke: I don’t believe it!

Yoda: That is why you fail.
#16 apy
October 2, 2007

jspreen,
Could you please describe to me an experiment that I could do in order to prove that germs do not cause disease? Be specific please, and preferably one that one does not need a laboratory for.

Thanks.
#17 Adele
October 2, 2007

Jan,

“Hi Hi Hi” is what you say when your greeting three people in a row.

I think you want “Heh heh heh” or “Hee Hee Hee”.

By the way all you deniosaurs out there who think your getting censored by Tara. Like Michael who has four posts in a row and then he says he’s getting censored. I just tried to comment and I got a message and it said I had “too many comments recently” Even though I had ONE comment today. I get stuff like that all the time. Error messages try your comment again later and all that.

So is Tara censoring me too? No you guys are just all paranoid.
#18 jspreen
October 2, 2007

jspreen, Could you please describe to me an experiment that I could do in order to prove that germs do not cause disease? Be specific please, and preferably one that one does not need a laboratory for.

Without any equipment? Well, yes, of course but before you could come to your final conclusion “Germs do not cause disease”, you will have a long way to go.
I’d suggest you start asking a person who is badly diseased (you can do the same experience with a less “severe” disease, but the event that caused the disease might be less evident), for instance a woman who has breast cancer, what terrible thing happened to her say one or two month before her breast started to hurt for the first time and to tell you about how she felt in the period between the bad moment (search for a terrible blow) and the first pain. You will find out that she felt very bad and very stressed. Then you will ask her to tell you what positive event took place some hours before the pain came and how she felt since that moment. You’ll find out that she was quite relieved and that she felt very good, weren’t it for the pain and of course, the terrible blow she had when her doctor diagnosed: Breast cancer.

Let’s say this is the first step you must do. Once you’ve gone through it, I’ll tel you which step comes next.

But then of course, I don’t think you’ll take this serious and I figure you’d rather write all kind of arguments which must proof how stupid I really am.
#19 Jim
October 2, 2007

“HIV denial is suddenly OK.”

I didn’t say it was ok, just that it’s easier to understand the need to deny it compared to others.

“And of course, everything is wrong. The whole germ theory is nuts. Medicine has gone wild since Louis Pasteur. Not only polio is not cause by a virus, not one single disease is caused by a germ.”

Then what is disease caused by? Please, I would like an in depth explanation of what the real causative agents of disease are and their mode of action. I would also like an in depth explanation of why the science is wrong, and why despite finding poliovirus in the brain tissues of patients with poliomyelitis (and only patients with poliomyelitis) it plays no role in disease. Pick any infectious disease you want and tell me what its “real” cause is and why the microbe associated with it is NOT the cause. And please make it an explanation backed up by evidence, not conjecture and hand waving.
#20 noreen
October 2, 2007

Adele, they are not parnoid. Yesterday morning after posting it stated that my comment had to be moderated. It later appeared on the site. It must be some glitch in the system.
#21 jspreen
October 2, 2007

and why despite finding poliovirus in the brain tissues of patients with poliomyelitis (and only patients with poliomyelitis) it plays no role in disease

Tell me where I wrote it plays no role! Since when it doesn’t cause is the same thing as it plays no role?

As for the rest, I suggest you walk the path together with apy. Final result guaranteed.
#22 jspreen
October 2, 2007

I think you want “Heh heh heh” or “Hee Hee Hee”.

Yeah, you’re right. Hi, hi, hi (pronounced hee, hee, hee) is the French version.

See? If you think right, we can agree immediately!
#23 Jim
October 2, 2007

So what role do microbes play in disease then? If you think germ theory is crap and that microbes don’t cause disease, to what extent do you think they play a role?

And if I understand you correctly, your explanation for breast cancer is stress and strong bad emotions followed by strong good emotions “one or two months” later? Tell me then, why haven’t I or anyone I know had any major health problems recently despite the fact that one or two month good/bad emotional cycles are pretty much the norm?
#24 jspreen
October 3, 2007

Tell me then, why haven’t I or anyone I know had any major health problems recently despite the fact that one or two month good/bad emotional cycles are pretty much the norm?

You must start to walk the path from the beginning, Jim, don’t jump too far ahead, you won’t get anywhere like that.
#25 Chris Noble
October 3, 2007

And if I understand you correctly, your explanation for breast cancer is stress and strong bad emotions followed by strong good emotions “one or two months” later? Tell me then, why haven’t I or anyone I know had any major health problems recently despite the fact that one or two month good/bad emotional cycles are pretty much the norm?

You don’t get it! Only stress and strong bad emotions that are followed two months later by breast cancer cause breast cancer.
#26 Tegumai Bopsulai, FCD
October 3, 2007

For the ultimate in Ki woo, it’s hard to beat the classic Kiai Master vs. MMA video.
#27 Wes
October 3, 2007

People want simple answers to complex problems. The world would be much simpler if you could merely believe your problems away without doing any real work, so people like jspreen will always be with us. Lucky for them, there are others who aren’t deluded and who will work to solve their problems for them.
#28 Chris Noble
October 3, 2007

People want simple answers to complex problems. The world would be much simpler if you could merely believe your problems away without doing any real work, so people like jspreen will always be with us. Lucky for them, there are others who aren’t deluded and who will work to solve their problems for them.

Unfortunately, some of the people that get sucked in by Spreen’s woo delay seeking real treatment until it’s too late.
#29 jspreen
October 4, 2007

Unfortunately, some of the people that get sucked in by Spreen’s woo delay seeking real treatment until it’s too late.

Unfortunately and To late for whom? Oh yeah, I understand. Too late for the med-drugs pushers. Too late for you too, Noble? Lol
#30 Chris Noble
October 6, 2007

Unfortunately and To late for whom? Oh yeah, I understand. Too late for the med-drugs pushers. Too late for you too, Noble? Lol

Most of the time I think of you as an amusing idiot but when you laugh at the people that die from cancer that could have been prevented then I realise how disgusting you are.
#31 jspreen
October 8, 2007

you laugh at the people that die from cancer

Do I? Buy a new pair of glasses, Noble, you’re eyes are getting too tired from all the reading on screen and you’re making things up. Man, do you ever give it a break? Maybe you should take some days off and find out what’s going on in real life. Have you ever been in a hospital, Noble? Seen people come in quite healthy and leave in a terrible state some weeks/months after the first diagnose?

the people that die from cancer that could have been prevented are without exception those who went for chemo treatment etc. but who should never have gone there in the first place.
#32 Chris Noble
October 8, 2007

the people that die from cancer that could have been prevented are without exception those who went for chemo treatment etc. but who should never have gone there in the first place.

Like Michaela Jakubczyk-Eckert?
#33 jspreen
October 8, 2007

Like Michaela Jakubczyk-Eckert?

Get off of that seat, Noble, take some fresh air and instead of coming up with some tabloid hate story, go to a hospital and find out what’s happening for yourself.
Did you ever see what’s going on, Noble? I mean, all those bold and very thin people, invariably walking around with the intravenous drip containing the miraculous life-saving killer-drugs? Tell me, how can a killer-drug possibly be life-saving, Noble?
#34 apy
October 8, 2007

go to a hospital and find out what’s happening for yourself

You’re almost there jspreen, just think a little harder and you’ll see the light.
#35 jspreen
October 9, 2007

You’re almost there jspreen

Don’t worry apy, I’ve been there. Many times. Have you?
#36 Ray C.
October 16, 2007

Literally billions of people are alive today who have never known either smallpox or the smallpox vaccine. So if smallpox wasn’t caused by the Variola virus, perhaps our friendly neighborhood crank could explain what did cause it. And why, since its true cause is presumably still at large, we haven’t had a global epidemic.
#37 muhabbet
March 25, 2009

thanks..