I’ve frequently written about what I like to refer to as the “toxins gambit” with respect to vaccines. Basically, in the hard core (and even soft core) antivaccine crowd, vaccines are feared as being loaded with all sorts of “toxins,” such as aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, and various chemicals that are dangerous enough separately, but, when combined, “poison” young babies, resulting in their becoming autistic, acquiring asthma and autoimmune diseases, or even dying of sudden infant death syndrome. Of course, many of the scary-sounding chemicals to which antivaccinationists point actually are in vaccines, but, as Paracelsus put it, the dose makes the poison, and the amount in vaccines is very much low enough not to pose a health threat. Also, formaldehyde is a product of normal metabolism present in the bloodstream of infants at a level much higher than what any vaccine contains.

So fearful of contamination of the precious bodily fluids of their babies are antivaccinationists (and, let’s be real, it really does boil down to just that in many cases) that it’s not enough to demonize vaccines based on the harmless ingredients that do make them up. They have to go beyond that and demonize vaccines based on what isn’t even in them. Right now, that misinformation takes the form of what looks on the surface like a real scientific paper. That’s what’s happening right now with a paper by Antonietta Gatti and Stefano Montanari in the International Journal of Vaccines and Vaccination entitled New Quality-Control Investigations on Vaccines: Micro- and Nanocontamination. It’s a paper I found through an article being circulated in antivaccine circles by the Children’s Medical Safety Research Institute (CMSRI), an group made up mainly of antivaccine cranks, in an article entitled Dirty Vaccines: New Study Reveals Prevalence of Contaminants. Note the “dirty vaccines” title. That is very much a matter of faith in much of the antivaccine community, that vaccines are “dirty,” hence the rants about DNA, monkey cells, formaldehyde, and the rest in vaccines. The article cranks the fear mongering up to 11 right from the beginning:

Every Human Vaccine Tested Was Contaminated by Unsafe Levels of Metals and Debris Linked to Cancer and Autoimmune Disease, New Study Reports

Researchers examining 44 samples of 30 different vaccines found dangerous contaminants, including red blood cells in one vaccine and metal toxicants in every single sample tested – except in one animal vaccine.

Using extremely sensitive new technologies not used in vaccine manufacturing, Italian scientists reported they were “baffled” by their discoveries which included single particles and aggregates of organic debris including red cells of human or possibly animal origin and metals including lead, tungsten, gold, and chromium, that have been linked to autoimmune disease and leukemia.

Wow. Sounds really, really scary, doesn’t it? The authors, after all, used electron microscopy, specifically a Field Emission Gun Environmental Electron Scanning Microscope equipped with the X-ray microprobe of an Energy Dispersive Spectroscope to detect the possible presence of inorganic, particulate contaminants and identify their chemical composition, to examine the vaccines and found all sorts of scary-looking stuff! My first response was: Unsafe levels. You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you think it means. My second response was: Baffled? Only if you have no idea what you are doing and talking about. You’ll see why in a moment, when I take a look at the paper you’ll see something that looks like a perfectly normal scientific paper. However, if you look at the publisher that publishes it, MedCrave, there are warning flags:

MedCrave is an Open Access Publishing website that contains ample scientific research information on categorized topics. MedCrave is a huge Online Publishing Library, where anyone can view, share and download research papers. The subjects covered here are vast, and every paper here is approved by the Editor and is peer reviewed. Unlike other Online Publishing Groups, MedCrave is the place for developing your educational standards and making yourself well acquainted with the latest research and development in all the fields. The authors of the research papers contribute a lot in making us one of the finest Online Publishing Groups and they also build up their prestige in MedCrave and the readers benefit from the reputed papers. The research papers from MedCrave also have an added visibility from all over the world. There is no charge viable for using MedCrave in any way.

This is what MedCrave means by peer review. Look at its flowsheet, and you will see that it looks as though there is almost no way for your paper to be rejected, period. In fact, I laughed at the flowsheet, having never seen anything like it in any legitimate scientific journal. Not surprisingly, MedCrave is included on Beall’s List of Predatory Publishers, basically a list of “pay to publish” open access journals who charge significant sums to authors to publish their work but whose editorial oversite and peer review are—shall we say?—lacking.

But what about the paper itself? Basically it’s a lot of fear mongering rooted in either biological ignorance or intentional deception (take your pick—there is no third option, although I concede it could be a combination of the two). I’ll show you what I mean. The authors show this photomicrograph of crystals of saline solution and aluminum phosphate and corresponding energy dispersive X-ray spectra (EDS spectra).

Aluminum crystals, chosen for maximal scariness.

Aluminum crystals, chosen for maximal scariness.

They write this about the photo:

Figure 1a shows a layer of crystals of Sodium chloride (NaCl) embedding salts of Aluminum phosphate (AlPO4) in a drop of Gardasil (anti-HPV vaccine by Merck) as the EDS spectrum (Figure 1b) shows. Saline is the fluid base to any vaccine preparation and Aluminum salts or Aluminum hydroxide [Al(OH)3] are the adjuvants which are usually added.

Looking at the area outside these precipitates but inside the liquid drop, we identified other things: single particles, clusters of particles and aggregates (organic-inorganic composites) that are due to an interaction of the inorganic particulate matter with the organic part of the vaccine.

Wow! That looks scary, doesn’t it? Basically, though, the authors are looking at a big aluminum phosphate crystal, given how the samples are prepared for electron microscopy:

A drop of about 20 microliter of vaccine is released from the syringe on a 25-mm-diameter cellulose filter (Millipore, USA), inside a flow cabinet. The filter is then deposited on an Aluminum stub covered with an adhesive carbon disc. The sample is immediately put inside a clean box in order to avoid any contamination and the box is re-opened only for the sample to be inserted inside the FEG-ESEM chamber. We selected that particular type of microscope as it allows to analyse watery and oily samples in low vacuum (from 10 to 130 Pa) at a high sensitivity.

When the water and saline the vaccine contains are evaporated, the biological/physical components emerge on the filter and it is then possible to observe them. This type of microscope

I’m not an expert in electron microscopy (EM), but I know that samples for EM generally have to be examined under vacuum. That’s why, in the case of biological samples, you can’t look at living cells. If you take a liquid sample and put it under even low vacuum, it evaporates. What’s left? Crystals and precipitates. Also, as you might imagine, EM is very, very sensitive. So it’s going to pick up incredibly tiny, biologically irrelevant amounts of everything. Antivaccinationists are obsessed with “purity”; so even these tiny amounts of “contaminants” will alarm them, and CMSRI knows that. Whether the authors of the article themselves know this or not, I don’t know or care, but I do care that their article is now being used to frighten parents.

What follows, then, is a series of photomicrographs of all sorts of particles that they found after evaporating 44 vaccines from four different countries, as listed in Table 1 of the paper. If you look at the other tables, you’ll see that the authors list all sorts of scary-sounding metals and compounds ranging from tungsten to aluminum to silicone to gold, to zirconium, all, ominously, “embedded in biological substrate” (i.e., precipitated proteins, which is what you would expect to find if you evaporated a vaccine, along with the minerals from the salt solution). The key table in the paper, however, for a chemist (my undergraduate major was chemistry before I went to medical school, and I took a considerable number of biochemistry and biochemistry-related classes during my education, both undergraduate and graduate) is Table 3. Look at it. More importantly, look at the numbers of precipitates found per sample. It ranges from two to 1,821.

O.M.G.! 1,821 particles! Holy crap! That’s horrible! The antivaxers are right that vaccines are hopelessly contaminated!

No. They. Are. Not.

Look at it this way. This is what was found in 20 μl (that’s microliters) of liquid. That’s 0.00002 liters. That means, in a theoretical liter of the vaccine, the most that one would find is 91,050,000 (9.105 x 107) particles! Holy hell! That’s a lot. We should be scared, shouldn’t we? well, no. Let’s go back to our homeopathy knowledge and look at Avogadro’s number. One mole of particles = 6.023 x 1023. So divide 91,050,000 by Avogadro’s number, and you’ll get the molarity of a solution of 91,050,000 particle in a liter, as a 1 M solution would contain 6.023 x 1023 particles. So what’s the concentration:

1.512 x 10-16 M. that’s 0.15 femtomolar (fM) (or 150 altomolar), an incredibly low concentration. And that’s the highest amount the investigators found. In reality, what they actually found is that vaccines are incredibly pure!

Yes, I know that I’ve simplified the calculations and that particles are not molecules [as has been pointed out in the comments]. I did it not to be perfectly scientifically, chemically accurate in a way that I’d do if I were in the lab doing an experiment. I used this example just to illustrate how a large number like 1,821 is not so very large at all. Then remember that 1,821 was the largest number of particles found in any vaccine. The vast majority of them contained many fewer particles, sometimes single digits numbers. Moreover, I note that the authors of the paper don’t report the concentration of the particles anywhere in their paper, an unconscionable and likely intentional omission that led me to look for an exercise to estimate and illustrate just how small these numbers are. I realize it’s an imperfect example; so let’s look at another, one that our friend the Skeptical Raptor uses:

Therein lies the most problematic issue with the data. The numbers are well below the level of biological activity, if these various chemicals even have biological activity (most don’t). For example, the authors found 1569 particles or precipitates in one drop of Cervarix (an anti-HPV vaccine). Sounds horrific right? Except that one drop of vaccine contains around 1.39 X 10^21 individual molecules. This so called contamination approximately 0.0000000000000000000719% of these so called contaminants.

In that Cervarix sample, the researchers found aluminum hydroxide, one of those scary sounding compounds. Let’s say every one of those 1569 particles was aluminum hydroxide, it would mean that around 0.000000000001 ng of aluminum hydroxide in a vial of vaccine. That is simply biologically irrelevant. Even if the aluminum hydroxide was found, it’s level is so low, that the human body wouldn’t notice it. You breathe in more aluminum on a normal day than you would ever find in a vial of vaccine.

Let me repeat for emphasis. The investigators think that what they found is that vaccines are contaminated with all sorts of inorganic metals. What they really found is that the amount of inorganic contamination is so low as to be biologically irrelevant. In fact, what they found is that vaccines are incredibly pure products.

And I didn’t even get into a very good question that our scaly friend asked: What were the controls? What would you find if you carried out the same analyses on tap water, for instance? It could very well be that syringe used to draw up and deposit the specimen could be the source of the “contamination.” Hell, it could just as easily be the cellulose matrix on which the specimens are deposited for analysis that were responsible for the “contamination.” I’m familiar with those filters, as they are commonly used in molecular biology. They are not ultra-pure. How were they stored? Often filters can pick up dust from the air. Whatever the source of the particles observed, without controls, there’s no way of knowing if the source was the vaccines or not. It could be that vaccines are even more pure than this study shows!

Now, knowing this, go and read the discussion and conclusion of this paper. You will laugh, and you should laugh. The investigators deserve nothing but mockery for this idiocy, such as:

We come across particles with chemical compositions, similar to those found in the vaccines we analyzed, when we study cases of environmental contamination caused by different pollution sources. In most circumstances, the combinations detected are very odd as they have no technical use, cannot be found in any material handbook and look like the result of the random formation occurring, for example, when waste is burnt. In any case, whatever their origin, they should not be present in any injectable medicament, let alone in vaccines, more in particular those meant for infants.

Other forms of so-far unknown contaminations have recently been observed and, in any case, vaccines contain components that could themselves be the cause of adverse effects. It is a well-known fact in toxicology that contaminants exert a mutual, synergic effect, and as the number of contaminants increases, the effects grow less and less predictable. The more so when some substances are unknown.

Yes, laugh, because what Gatti and Montanari actually showed is that the level of inorganic contamination in vaccines is minuscule, suggesting that the manufacturing processes used to make them are very, very good at making sure that vaccines are pure, given that none of the vaccines contained more inorganic particles at a concentration higher than 0.15 femtomolar. But also get angry at the deception and cry that there will be parents taken in by this ridiculous paper, as groups like CSMRI spread it far and wide with terrifying language about “contamination.” Given that the CMSRI’s scientific advisory board includes antivaccine “scientists” like Christopher Shaw, Yehuda Shoenfeld, Richard Deth, Stephanie Seneff, and Vicky Debold, along with some others I’m not familiar with, it’s not at all surprising that CMSRI loves it. It also amuses me to no end that the “scientific board” didn’t see the obvious problems with this paper.

That’s because it’s all about antivaccine fear mongering, not science.

Comments

  1. #1 wolfgangM
    Vienna
    February 12, 2017

    @Joe, #212

    Is it so hard for vaccine sellers to do proper tests and show exactly what is in the vaccines?

    Well vaccines are not normal pharmaceuticals – thes belong to the class of biologicals. And biologicals are very complex.

    An apple is also of biological origin. I am not aware, that one tried to identify all ingriedients of an apple with analytical procedures. However apples are not toxic, an apple a day ….. and vaccines specially in the first year of live perform much better than an apple a day.

  2. #4 Chris Preston
    Australia
    February 12, 2017

    Vaccine problems will only be revealed when somebody develops and tries to market a competing product.

    Seriously?

    Don’t be a dill. Problems with vaccines become apparent when there is a cluster of side effects. This has seen various vaccines withdrawn – even when there hasn’t been any alternative product.

    I haven’t read the paper in detail yet, but reading the abstract and introduction, I am left with the idea that they were researching a not a problem.

  3. #5 Dangerous Bacon
    February 12, 2017

    vinu said: “Offit wants to get the whole cell (pertussis) vaccine back because the Dtap does not work well and has it’s own side effects (food allergies/asthma/autism).”

    In reality Offit has said no such thing. And I cannot find any statement by him which calls for a return to whole-call pertussis vaccine.

    Offit discussed a study which looked at the likely effect of incorporating whole-cell vaccine into the immunization schedule.

    “As we transitioned from the whole-cell bacterial vaccine to the purified protein vaccine, some children received only the whole-cell vaccine, some received only the acellular vaccine, and some received a combination—meaning they were primed with the whole-cell vaccine but then boosted with the acellular vaccine. This study looked at what happened to the latter group of children.”

    “They found that priming with the whole-cell vaccine and then finishing the series with the acellular vaccine produced a much better immune response. Using mathematical modeling, this group determined that using a single dose of the whole-cell vaccine to prime, and then acellular vaccine for booster doses, would result in a 95% reduction in the incidences of disease, as well as a 96% reduction in the incidence of disease in neonates.”

    “This is just a theoretical mathematical modeling paper. They did not actually conduct this experiment. Frankly, it would be tough to move back to the whole-cell vaccine because of the perception that it caused permanent harm in terms of epilepsy or developmental delays, although that wasn’t true. We would struggle against that perception of harm. It is an interesting thought, and certainly, if we were to do it, we would be better off than we are today.”

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/862432

    “An interesting thought” does not equate to “we should do it”. (except in vinu-land, where truth is fungible).

    • #6 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 12, 2017

      Offit:
      “It is an interesting thought, and certainly, if we were to do it, we would be better off than we are today.”

      The very fact that they are even discussing the possibility of getting a vaccine from ~20 years ago, shows we have a vaccine safety progress problem.

      It ‘s like seriously considering replacing the 787s with 747s or running DOS on your computer.

  4. #7 herr doktor bimler
    February 12, 2017

    It ‘s like seriously considering … running DOS on your computer.
    Wait, is this a bad thing now? (high-end legacy software).

    The very fact that they are even discussing the possibility of getting a vaccine from ~20 years ago, shows we have a vaccine safety progress problem

    I am impressed as ever by Vinu’s ability to take a speculation about how to improve a vaccine’s effectiveness and pretend that it’s an admission of unsafety. That ‘s some weapons-grade intellectual dishonesty.

    • #8 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 12, 2017

      “how to improve a vaccine’s effectiveness ”

      If the discussion of improving vaccine effectiveness includes the option of bringing back a vaccine from 20 years ago, it shows the incompetence of the people who designed/approved the acellular vaccine. And it takes 20 years to figure out we have an effectiveness problem?

      “pretend that it’s an admission of unsafety. ”

      http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(15)00584-9/fulltext
      “The reasons why peanut allergy has become more common might include (1) changes in vaccines, particularly the change from cellular to acellular pertussis; …”

      • #9 Wzrd1
        February 12, 2017

        “The reasons why peanut allergy has become more common might include (1) changes in vaccines, particularly the change from cellular to acellular pertussis; …”

        How predictable it is that that sentence is nowhere in the referenced document.

        • #10 vinu arumugham
          United States
          February 12, 2017

          Do you see colored boxes with text inside?
          Otherwise, may be you can see Table IV?

          “Table IV
          Pre-existing factors and changes that could be relevant to the increase in peanut allergy in the United States, 1990 to the present
          I.Differences in the preparation of peanut products
          A.Roasted vs boiled
          B.Emulsified peanut products in the United States
          II.Delayed oral consumption of peanut proteins
          A.Comparison of Israel and London
          B.American Academy of Pediatrics policy regarding avoiding peanut products
          III.Changes in skin as a result of daily bathing with soap or detergents
          A.Removal of lipids from skin
          B.Other damage that could allow increased skin penetration
          IV.Changes in vaccination policy
          A.Increase in frequency
          B.Change from cellular to acellular pertussis”

          • #11 Wzrd1
            February 13, 2017

            Yet, your quoted box fails to contain your initial quote.

            In the table, II and IIB are one in the same, with IIA being confounded by genetic differences between two populations, one having significant founder effects. III’s entries make less than no sense, as lipids have always been removed from the skin by a special, quite novel substance: soap. Oh wait, that’s been around for thousands of years.
            IV is just pulling things from thin air, again, making unrelated blind guesses.

  5. #12 squirrelelite
    February 12, 2017

    @Stavros,

    Perhaps.

    But I still have both eyes and I’m only mildly overweigjt.

  6. #13 Old Rockin' Dave
    February 13, 2017

    I keep coming across the “vaccines turn people gay” thing, and it made me wonder.
    My childhood preceded many, maybe most, of the vaccines routinely given today. The only ones I’m sure I had were for smallpox, tetanus, and the Salk polio vaccine. Could it be that getting only a few vaccines kept me from turning all the way gay? Could it be the reason I ended up bisexual?
    If so, all I can say is, thank you, vaccines, thank you, thank you, thank you!

  7. #14 Julian Frost
    Gauteng North
    February 13, 2017

    @vinu:

    If the discussion of improving vaccine effectiveness includes the option of bringing back a vaccine from 20 years ago, it shows the incompetence of the people who designed/approved the acellular vaccine. And it takes 20 years to figure out we have an effectiveness problem?

    Wrong. The whole-cell pertussis component was replaced with acellular pertussis component because it was suspected that the whole-cell component was responsible for seizures. Large scale investigations later revealed that it wasn’t, but by then DTP had been dropped.
    With regards to effectiveness, the experts knew that acellular pertussis would be less effective than whole-cell pertussis, but accepted this for safety reasons.
    It was a risk/reward assessment, not incompetence.

    • #15 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 13, 2017

      “Large scale investigations later revealed that it wasn’t, but by then DTP had been dropped.”

      Designing a a new product without first UNDERSTANDING what is wrong with the old product is defined as incompetence.

    • #16 vinu arumugham
      February 13, 2017

      “the experts knew that acellular pertussis would be less effective than whole-cell pertussis, but accepted this for safety reasons.
      It was a risk/reward assessment,”

      The “experts” did not even know that the acellular vaccine DOES NOT PREVENT transmission, until a few years ago. How did they perform a “risk/reward” assessment? ASSUMPTIONS! The entire vaccine safety enterprise is a fraud.

  8. #17 Murmur
    UK-ia
    February 13, 2017

    Wzrd, having found that with several “references” Vinu cited I have saved myself the bother of checking his “sources” and just assume that he is making stuff up: it saves time. See also that berk in another thread who made all manner of claims about a GMS FTP hearing, whose transcript contradicted what they claimed…

    • #18 Wzrd1
      February 13, 2017

      Wzrd, having found that with several “references” Vinu cited I have saved myself the bother of checking his “sources” and just assume that he is making stuff up: it saves time.

      Yeah, same here. But, with such a trivially searchable quote and considering how quickly I can read through a document, I rolled the dice.
      Having a very good idea what the result would be. Hence my remark on it being predictable.

  9. #19 Murmur
    UK-ia
    February 13, 2017

    Derp: that would be GMC…

  10. #20 frequent lurker
    February 13, 2017

    @Rockin’ Dave
    #11

    If so, all I can say is, thank you, vaccines, thank you, thank you, thank you!

    I can imagine that every “thank you” was spoken in progressively escalating volume and coincident with rusty squeaks of an aging boxspring.

  11. #21 Richard
    Netherlands
    February 13, 2017

    @Vinu, #226

    but we need safer vaccines NOW

    No, we don’t, since safety concerns about vaccines exist only in the minds of scaremongers and deluded people who have no idea what they’re talking about.
    Vaccination is probably the safest and at the same time single most effective medical intervention in existence, a notion which is supported by decade after decade of ongoing research. Child mortality and morbidity are at a historic low, and the few childhood conditions that may be more prevalent now than half a century ago have good explanations, other than vaccines. Sure, we can’t explain everything at this moment. But only fools blame vaccines for the things they don’t understand yet — especially in the light of the fact that any connections between those things and vaccines have been researched (often ad nauseam) and found not to exist. In other words: we don’t know (exactly, yet) what causes e.g. autism or chronic fatigue syndrome or ADHD etc., but we know with a very high degree of certainty that it isn’t vaccines.

    • #22 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 13, 2017

      “No, we don’t, since safety concerns about vaccines exist only in the minds of scaremongers and deluded people who have no idea what they’re talking about.”

      The Flumist flip/flop fiasco is the latest proof of how little the vaccine “experts” know about vaccines.

      https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/resources/adverseeffects.pdf
      “For the vast majority, (135 vaccine-adverse event
      pairs), the evidence is inadequate to accept or reject
      a causal relationship. ”
      Vaccine safety is an oxymoron.

  12. #23 Dangerous Bacon
    February 13, 2017

    vinu: “The very fact that they are even discussing the possibility of getting a vaccine from ~20 years ago, shows we have a vaccine safety progress problem.”

    Apart from concern that you will need surgery to repair the hernia caused by that goalpost-shifting (and wondering what a “vaccine safety progress problem” is), “they” have not promoted using a 20-year-old vaccine. Rather, some have speculated that using a whole-cell vaccine might be desirable. There’s no indication on whether this involves consideration of a newly formulated whole cell vaccine. And since no one is seriously considering such a change, flailing your little arms about it is pointless.

    Question: If you take a flight on a 787 on which 180,000 packets of peanuts have been served to 74,360 passengers, 11,528 of whom have been immunized against pertussis, how many will ultimately become lactose intolerant?

  13. #24 Old Rockin' Dave
    February 13, 2017

    Frequent Lurker:
    “I can imagine that every “thank you” was …coincident with rusty squeaks of an aging boxspring.”
    I wish.

    • #25 Wzrd1
      February 13, 2017

      I can imagine that every “thank you” was …coincident with rusty squeaks of an aging boxspring.

      In my case, the rusty squeaks would be associated with my efforts to sit up. As my foundation is wooden and not spring based, the source of the squeaks is a mystery.
      Although, the sounds appear suspiciously to originate near my joints.

  14. #26 Vicki
    the Commonwealth of Massachusetts
    February 13, 2017

    Old Rockin’ Dave:

    I was given more childhood vaccines than you were (including MMR, DTP, and the BCG vaccine against tuberculosis, though I don’t remember offhand which polio vaccine I got), with the same outcome. I’m not counting vaccines I got since I came out, though someone probably has an atemporal theory of causation that would give the credit to my relatively recent hepatitis vaccine.

    Can we blame the measles vaccine that I got in college for my relatively late discovery that I’m bisexual, not lesbian?

  15. #27 Vicki
    February 13, 2017

    Vinu wrote:

    “there is no evidence whatsoever that these contaminants do any harm in the concentrations present.”

    Please post the relevant references.

    The claim that you are arguing with is that there is no evidence. What are you looking for, a list of every publication in human history that does not contain such evidence? That’s a tall order; why don’t you start with Wikipedia, the complete works of William Shakespeare, Agatha Christie, and Isaac Asimov, and the Internet Archive for weather.gov. (The works of Christie are relevant to vaccine-preventable disease; Asimov’s may be as well.)

    • #28 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 13, 2017

      I suspect they don’t pull this out of a hat but I could be wrong …

      https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms?cdrid=546597
      “maximum tolerated dose listen (MAK-sih-mum TAH-leh-RAY-ted …)
      The highest dose of a drug or treatment that does not cause unacceptable side effects. The maximum tolerated dose is determined in clinical trials by testing increasing doses on different groups of people until the highest dose with acceptable side effects is found. Also called MTD.”

  16. #29 JustaTech
    February 13, 2017

    Oh, wow, this was a howler!
    Vinu “If apples caused any of those problems in some individuals, evolution has taken its course and eliminated them. So apples are NOW safe.”
    Yeah, no. 1) apple seeds, in quantity, are poisonous 2) most apple varieties are totally inedible (which is why they only grow wild) so who knows if all apples are safe for all humans.

    Once again demonstrating that biology is complex, and rather beyond vinu’s current ken.

    • #30 Wzrd1
      February 13, 2017

      Yeah, no. 1) apple seeds, in quantity, are poisonous 2) most apple varieties are totally inedible (which is why they only grow wild) so who knows if all apples are safe for all humans.

      Odd, I’m unaware of any apple variety (true apple forms, not other fruits bred to resemble apples) that is inedible. Mealy, sour or even bitter, yes.
      But, I happen to like nibbling on the fruit of the European crabapple. Seriously!
      Fortunately, for a truly toxic dosage from apple seeds, one requires a ludicrous number of seeds. Otherwise, we’d read of home made applesauce related poisonings.

    • #31 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 13, 2017

      In the wild, what to eat and what not to eat is passed along from one generation to the next. Then there is the taste defense. If it does not taste good, it probably is not good for you. I did not claim all varieties of apple are safe for humans. Whatever we ate as we evolved, is safe.

  17. #32 herr doktor bimler
    February 13, 2017

    “If apples peanuts caused any of those problems in some individuals, evolution has taken its course and eliminated them. So apples peanuts are NOW safe.”

    • #33 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 13, 2017

      Until some incompetent “experts” started injecting it into people …

  18. #34 Julian Frost
    Gauteng North
    February 14, 2017

    @vinu:

    The “experts” did not even know that the acellular vaccine DOES NOT PREVENT transmission, until a few years ago.

    Less effective != Not effective. DTaP may be less effective than DTP but it is still effective.

  19. #35 szczepan
    Poland
    February 14, 2017

    Don’t you think that the same amount of toxin taken orally will have different effect when taken straight to the blood or muscle?

  20. #36 Dangerous Bacon
    February 14, 2017

    I’ve been having an online exchange with a (usually) rational pediatrician, who’s angry at other peds who discharge patients with antivax parents from their practices.

    This guy says it’s “unethical” to do this (because it burdens other pediatricians like himself), and that it’s better to keep vaccine refusers/delayers in the practice so that he can gradually convince such parents over time. Oh, and he insists that the risk to other patients of maintaining these unvaccinated kids is “essentially zero”, even if they’re infants who can’t be vaccinated or immunosuppressed due to primary deficiency or medications.

    This same pediatrician is fond of pointing out that in preventable disease outbreaks, most victims have been vaccinated.

    Sometimes it’s difficult to tell the difference between brain farts and trollery.

  21. #37 Lawrence
    February 14, 2017

    You first have to define “toxin.” Because water is toxic, in a large enough dose.

  22. #38 Old Rockin' Dave
    February 14, 2017

    “Whatever we ate as we evolved, is safe.”
    Raw meat. Undercooked pork. Sassafras. Kimchi. Frying in peanut oil. Frying in general. Alcohol. Hallucinogenic mushrooms. Lots of other kinds of mushrooms. Blowfish tail. Absinthe. Pica in pregnancy. Nitrates. Nitrites. Smoked foods.
    …just off the top of my head.

  23. #39 Old Rockin' Dave
    February 14, 2017

    Vicki:
    Always nice to meet another member of the club. Good luck.
    I wish I had been born in a time when coming out as bi isn’t necessarily suicidal. Just for starters.

  24. #40 Antaeus Feldspar
    February 14, 2017

    Dogs were domesticated tens of thousands of years ago.

    In vinu-Logikk(tm), this means that any security procedure which employs dogs, such as having them guard a property, must be unsafe, since it’s using technology tens of thousands of years old.

  25. #41 Politicalguineapig
    February 14, 2017

    AF: Well, it’s definitely unsafe for anyone unauthorized who happens to be in the property at jaw level. Even the sweetest dogs are likely to bite an intruder.

  26. #42 Roger Kulp
    February 14, 2017

    I realize this is a long post,with many hyperlinks,but I hope this makes it past mod queue.
    @vinu arumugham

    With all due respect sir,you are an idiot.I don’t know what it is about antivaxers that they are so willing to connect any inborn or inherited defect related to the immune system or metabolism with vaccines.Dr. Vincent Ramaekers and Dr. Edward Quadros would both be very upset with you,to say the least,that you are twisting their research in this matter.I suggest you contact one,or both,of these gentlemen,to ask what they believe the role of vaccines is in the development of folate receptor autoantibodies.

    Here is Dr. Ramaekers contact information
    http://www.chu.ulg.ac.be/jcms/c_11119/centre-de-ressources-autisme-liege

    And here is that of Dr.Quadros
    http://www.downstate.edu/cellbiology/faculty/Dr.EdQuadros.html

    They are very good about answering phone calls and emails,I am sure they would both be very interested in hearing from you.

    There is ample evidence that folate receptor autoantibodies are something children inherit from their parents.Often from the mother,but sometimes from both parents,or even just from the father.There are often complex family histories of mental illness,intellectual disability,autoimmiune diseases,neural tube defects,stillbirth,etc.

    Here is a summary of this research but there is lots more evidence http://search.proquest.com/openview/68cc5d09ef398c9f16fd8f92855d6d86/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=44096

    Here too
    http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v18/n3/full/mp2011175a.html

    Dr.Ramaekers has since found folate receptor autoantibodies are present in a subpopulation of adults with schizophrenia,and treating these patients with folinic acid has reversed or dramatically improved their illness.

    http://www.mgmjournal.com/article/S1096-7192(14)00311-4/abstract

    Folate receptor autoantibodies are also found in patients with mitochondrial disease with and without autism.

    http://www.neurology.org/content/70/16/1360.extract

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1525505014004120

    I am in a group on Facebook just for cerebral folate deficiency and folate receptor autoantibodies.There are a number of parents there whose children were found to have folate receptor autoantibodies,and these children were unvaccinated.There are parents in this group,who are on both sides of the vaccine issue,but vaccines is not a topic the administrator of the group likes to discuss.You might want to join this group,and learn something from real families living with this condition.
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/363697893680469

    I was diagnosed with cerebral folate deficiency due to folate receptor autoantibodies a few years ago in my 40s.Too old for the MMR vaccine,or any of the other vaccines you antivaxers scream about.I had an autism diagnosis that was verbal,but otherwise low functioning.I have never worked,and I lived with my mother up until her death a few years ago.I also have had many medical issues since I was an infant.The same doctors that found the folate receptor autoantibodies,found two undiagnosed conditions,a serious inborn error of metabolism,and a very rare genetic disorder,that can both effect the brain,and cause immune deficiency.It took a few years,but I was able to reverse my autism,learning disabilities,and related conditions with high dose folinic acid.

    Cerebral folate deficiency is something I take very seriously.I am a big believer in testing,treatment,and awareness.I do not want the real science,and results of treatment,tainted by antivaxers,to the point where the public does not take this disorder seriously.

    • #43 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 14, 2017

      “There is ample evidence that folate receptor autoantibodies are something children inherit from their parents.”

      Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong. If what you claim were possible, babies would inherit the ability to generate antibodies to ALL the diseases the parents suffered too. No need for any vaccines. They would be protected against all those disease at birth and for life. DOES NOT HAPPEN.

      • #44 Wzrd1
        February 15, 2017

        Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong. If what you claim were possible, babies would inherit the ability to generate antibodies to ALL the diseases the parents suffered too. No need for any vaccines.

        Boy, oh boy, but you got the cart before the horse! As in, not even wrong.

        If I’m immunized against rabies virus and am bit by a rabid animal, my body would have produced antibodies against the virus and defeat it before I was actually infected.
        If I’m vaccinated against rabies immediately after a bite by a rabid animal, my body will still produce antibodies against the virus and defeat it before the infection travels far. That was true of my parents as well, an ability that every human inherits.
        What is not inherited is the antibodies themselves, although some antibodies can be passed through human breast milk (not all, but some).

        Mistakes in thought, the ability to create an antibody is heritable and for many antibodies, species wide (or even vertebrata wide). The antibodies themselves, no, not heritable.
        We’d need a much larger genome to pass those along! 😉

        • #45 vinu arumugham
          February 15, 2017

          Roger Kulp wrote:
          “There is ample evidence that folate receptor autoantibodies are something children inherit from their parents.”

          • #46 Wzrd1
            February 16, 2017

            Roger Kulp wrote:
            “There is ample evidence that folate receptor autoantibodies are something children inherit from their parents.”

            Jesus H Christ’s scrotum! Get your mind made up! Previously, we managed to agree that antibodies cannot possibly be inherited, only the ability to create them can be.
            Now, some gadfly from Autism Speaks, a known antivaxer idiocy group, is an authority that Google itself never heard of beyond that group of ass-ociates!
            Grow a set, man! Figure out where you stand, rather than stand upon vacuum and shift the goalposts!
            You’ll get a hernia that way.

            http://autismgadfly.blogspot.com/2009/07/roger-kulp-published-on-age-of-autism.html

          • #47 vinu arumugham
            February 16, 2017

            You are very confused. We are discussing Roger Kulp’s post #42.

          • #48 Wzrd1
            February 17, 2017

            Oh? I thought we were discussing Alex Jones reports on the war that we lost against the space aliens.
            Followed by the report on the war we won, at the same non-extant location we fought a war and won against the space aliens.

            Fiction is cheap and plentiful.

    • #49 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 15, 2017

      “It took a few years,but I was able to reverse my autism,learning disabilities,and related conditions with high dose folinic acid.”

      Nice to hear that. However, I don’t see folinic acid mentioned as a mainstream treatment for ASD. With 75% of ASD patient testing positive for FRA, I would expect that folinic acid should be a top treatment. Any idea why it is not a mainstream treatment?

    • #50 vinu arumugham
      February 15, 2017

      “Dr. Vincent Ramaekers and Dr. Edward Quadros would both be very upset with you”

      I have exchanged many emails on this matter with Dr.Quadros and he is certainly not upset with me.
      I have also contacted Dr.Frye and he found my idea that milk contaminated vaccines cause ASD to be “very interesting”.
      I have not yet contacted Dr. Ramaekers. Will do now.

    • #51 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 15, 2017

      Google’s definition:
      an·ti-vax·xer
      “a person who is opposed to vaccination, typically a parent who does not wish to vaccinate their child.”

      If someone is opposed to vaccination and they don’t vaccinate their children, why would they care about what is in the vaccine? What difference would it make to them if vaccines contained mercury or even cyanide?

      • #52 Wzrd1
        February 15, 2017

        What difference would it make to them if vaccines contained mercury or even cyanide?

        Simple enough, to justify their stupid decision to others, especially when others object to their young becoming a risk to those unable to or too young to receive their vaccines.

    • #53 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 15, 2017

      From your own reference:
      http://search.proquest.com/openview/68cc5d09ef398c9f16fd8f92855d6d86/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=44096

      “In 27 of the 35 autistic children, both parents tested negative, suggesting postnatal development of FR autoimmunity as the likely mechanism.”

      So autoantibodies are not inherited.

      “findings suggest that FR autoimmunity in either one or both
      parents may contribute to the development of autism in their
      offspring”
      Yes, some people can be GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED to developing FRA associated autism but you need the milk contaminated vaccine to make it happen.
      If you have a gene that predisposes you to smoking related cancer, you are still ok if you avoid smoking. So don’t blame the genes.

  27. #54 Denice Walter
    February 14, 2017

    In other anti-vax news…

    Tomorrow RFK jr and Robert DeNiro wil make a grounddbreaking statement to the Washington Press Club about vaccine most likely involving mercury as the World Mercury Project website is where they’ll link
    ( see Mike Adams. Natural News today)

    Hoo boy, here we go again.

  28. #55 Politicalguineapig
    February 14, 2017

    RK: I don’t know what it is about antivaxers that they are so willing to connect any inborn or inherited defect related to the immune system or metabolism with vaccines.

    Generally speaking, anti-vaxxers are middle-class, college-educated (Though not usually in chemistry or any scientific field, somehow they managed to skip those classes) career-oriented,white, usually and unfortunately female and primrose-pathed, so they tend to fall apart at any bump in the road.
    They refuse to believe that autism might have a genetic component because a) they can’t accept that something in their family isn’t perfect, b) they need some outside force, and c) it isn’t socially acceptable to tell people ‘actually, that kid is a fairy changeling, not mine.’

  29. #56 Denice Walter
    February 14, 2017

    In other other news…

    Jake Crosby rags on about Fiona O’Leary confounding a few issues as usual. ( Autism Investigated) actually displaying tweets of his own.

  30. #57 Dangerous Bacon
    February 14, 2017

    “Tomorrow RFK jr and Robert DeNiro wil make a grounddbreaking statement to the Washington Press Club about vaccine most likely involving mercury as the World Mercury Project website is where they’ll link”

    Well, they and their antivax cohorts are always breaking new ground:

    https://esp.rt.com/actualidad/public_images/58f/58f632e2d286201a3b7d20e843e4af0a.jpg

  31. #58 JustaTech
    February 14, 2017

    vinu @33: “Until some incompetent “experts” started injecting it into people …”

    Fine. Prove, with citations, that no one on earth *ever* had an allergic reaction to peanuts before 1844 (when the first hypodermic syringe was invented).

    I bet you’d eat wild almonds too.

  32. #59 JustaTech
    February 14, 2017

    Roger @42: Thank you very much for your post and all the links! I’m glad it made it past moderation, and I’m doubly glad that we have people here who are knowledgeable on these topics and correct people who are wrong.

  33. #60 frequent lurker
    February 14, 2017

    Interesting. I still think this is a pointless diversion. I was under the assumption that the allergic response was only geared towards proteins. I don’t see how an oil could create an allergic response.

    Nor would I expect any proteins in the lipid fraction of peanuts.

    Allergenic cross-reactions are a proven phenomenon as far as I can tell, but I just don’t see it happening in vaccines for anything besides egg protein. Nothing else really exists in more than ultra-trace quantities.

    I would say: prove an egg allergy first, and then maybe move on to other potentialities.

  34. #61 JustaTech
    February 14, 2017

    FL @49: Yup. I’ve repeatedly asked about how strawberries get into vaccines, or bee venom, or jellyfish venom, and shockingly I get no answers. It’s almost as though there aren’t any logical answers and no data.

    I still think it’s that someone is afraid of needles and is looking for a “scientific” reason to get rid of them.

  35. #62 Richard
    Netherlands
    February 14, 2017

    @Vicky, #27
    I wish people like Vinu would make up their mind which level of scientific evidence they consider sufficient. Because they expect their ideas to be accepted with no evidence at all, or at best the tiniest smidgen of a rumored hint of evidence for a causal connection with some sort of adverse reaction or other — whereas at the same time, they demand an impossible level of evidence(*) before they will accept that vaccination is generally safe.

    This, of course, is simply their way of saying that they will never, ever accept the reality that vaccination is very safe and very effective.

    *: Apparently, even a body of one hundred years of continuous research by hundreds of thousands of scientists and a proven safety record in administering vaccines to literally billions of people is not enough to prove that, yes, it’s very safe.

  36. #63 shay simmons
    watching the German shepherds at play
    February 14, 2017

    any security procedure which employs dogs, such as having them guard a property, must be unsafe

    It’s quite definitely unsafe for the intruder.

  37. #64 herr doktor bimler
    February 14, 2017

    Fine. Prove, with citations, that no one on earth *ever* had an allergic reaction to peanuts before 1844 (when the first hypodermic syringe was invented).

    1884? The belief system is a little more specific. There is no evidence that peanut products are used or have ever been used as a vaccine additive, but Vinu likes to cite the 1964 patent on the concept of peanut oil as an excipient, followed by a demand for sufficiently definitive proof that peanut oil is not being used (when his attention is called to the absence of peanut oil in the lists of ingredients, he reckons that in his unique misunderstanding of the regulations manufacturers would not have to list if they did use it, therefore they must be using it; then the goalposts shift to a completely different playing field).

    So even in Vinu-world, his belief-system has the corollary that peanut allergies only started in 1964.

    JustaTech notes another corollary of Vinu’s argument-by-evolutionary-perfection —
    “If apples bee-stings caused any of those problems in some individuals, evolution has taken its course and eliminated them. So apples bee-stings are NOW safe.”

    • #65 Dorit Reiss
      February 14, 2017

      The labeling regulation – 21 C.F.R. 601.61 – requires mentioning adjuvants on the label.

      Subsection o.

      • #66 vinu arumugham
        United States
        February 15, 2017

        I agree with you that peanut oil is not used as an adjuvant in vaccines.

    • #67 vinu arumugham
      February 14, 2017

      “If apples bee-stings caused any of those problems in some individuals, evolution has taken its course and eliminated them. So apples bee-stings are NOW safe.”

      Pretty close .. but not quite. Mosquito bites are safe (unless it is an infected mosquito). Bee stings are mostly safe. Why the difference? Rate of occurrence. With mosquito bites being so common, people who have fatal reactions to mosquito bites would have been quickly eliminated. Bee sting are much rarer. So people can still withstand several bee stings but evolution did not prepare us for beekeeping levels of stings.

      Eich-Wanger C, Muller UR. Bee sting allergy in beekeepers. Clin Exp Allergy. 1998;28(10):1292–8.

      • #68 Wzrd1
        February 15, 2017

        Pretty close .. but not quite. Mosquito bites are safe (unless it is an infected mosquito). Bee stings are mostly safe.

        No. I’m sensitive to the saliva of certain species of mosquitoes, which cause severe dermatitis. So much for your theories of evolution.
        My wife is deathly allergic to bee stings. Do you want to know how angry I got the last time I had to pay full price up front for an ana-kit, in US green stamp cash?
        Of course, now the damnable things are non-formulary, due to a certain greedy motherlover.

  38. #69 Politicalguineapig
    February 14, 2017

    Is Vinu aware of the survival rate of beestings and peanut allergies before the epi-pen was invented? ‘Cause I would be willing to bet that an awful lot of people died of both those things before vaccines were ever invented. I’d also be willing to bet that those deaths were either not recorded or attributed to something else entirely. Also, in places where infants re more likely to start eating ‘grown-up food’ earlier, peanut allergies are a lot less common. Explain that, jackoff.

    • #70 vinu arumugham
      February 14, 2017

      “Also, in places where infants re more likely to start eating ‘grown-up food’ earlier, peanut allergies are a lot less common.”

      Eating peanuts induces immune tolerance. So of course if you introduce peanuts early, you are less likely to develop allergy to subsequently injected peanut contaminated vaccines.

      http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/136/3/600

      Of course, this was known a hundred years ago.

      THE BIOLOGICAL REACTIONS OF THE VEGETABLE PROTEINS.

      http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/8/1/66.short

      Interestingly, Wells and Osborne were studying sensitization caused by
      injections of vegetable proteins. They noted during their study that
      ingestion of these proteins provided protection against future
      sensitization by injection (oral tolerance).

      • #71 Wzrd1
        February 15, 2017

        Of course, this was known a hundred years ago.

        Female hysteria and the vapors were also known a hundred years ago. We don’t have fainting couches or doctors making house calls with a vibrator to treat female hysteria with an orgasm any longer.

        Eating peanuts induces immune tolerance. So of course if you introduce peanuts early, you are less likely to develop allergy to subsequently injected peanut contaminated vaccines.

        Interestingly, just recently it was suggested that early exposure prevents allergies to certain food items, such as peanuts. That replaced guidance that lasted nearly a generation that suggested later exposure to allergens, such as peanuts.
        The reason is simple enough, after noticing an up tick in peanut allergies in children, it was suggested that a later exposure might lower incidence.
        Alas, the converse was observed, leading to testing and revised advice.
        No need to dust off century old misapprehensions of how organic systems work. Especially in an era where we can gene map, identify specific proteins and understand many of the receptors our cells use.

        • #72 vinu arumugham
          February 15, 2017

          “The reason is simple enough, after noticing an up tick in peanut allergies in children, it was suggested that a later exposure might lower incidence.
          Alas, the converse was observed, leading to testing and revised advice.
          No need to dust off century old misapprehensions of how organic systems work. ”

          With all the technology we have, you should reinvent the wheel too. Those who don’t learn from history …

          • #73 Wzrd1
            February 16, 2017

            With all the technology we have, you should reinvent the wheel too.

            Yeah, because when I was born, in 1961, we had PC’s and oh, wait, a supercomputer of the era still ate up a sizable part of a city block floor of a city block sized building (0.1 mile in each side).
            To give you a hint, I saw an electron microscope of the first generation, used a late 1960’s electron microscope in junior high school and a 1970’s model in high school (all donated by a generous donor, who was long gone by the time our kids went to the same school (both donor and microscopes)).
            Due to my generation, I know how electron tube circuits work, how germanium transistor circuits work and silicon circuits work to component level, maturing to VLSI levels to current levels *and* know a whale of a lot of military medicine in a Special Operations environment.
            The latter is why I fight against those who object to vaccines. I’ve witnessed a simultaneous outbreak of polio and measles, those memories still awaken me at night from nightmares of far too many tiny graves being filled by children a little bit older than my own grandchildren.

  39. #74 herr doktor bimler
    February 14, 2017

    I fondly recall an earlier thread a few years ago in which Vinu dealt with the fact of between-nation differences in allergy rates, by deducing that other nations must be using country-specific vaccines with excipients matched to local diets. For instance, Israel must be using specially-formulated vaccines that substitute sesame oil for the non-existent peaut oil. Which they would do because reasons.
    That boy ain’t right.

    • #75 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 14, 2017

      Allergens in vaccines per the National Academy of Medicine (NAM) report

      https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23658/finding-a-path-to-safety-in-food-allergy-assessment-of

      NAM report pg.241
      “Allergens in Vaccines, Medications, and Dietary Supplements

      Physicians and patients with food allergy must consider potential food
      allergen exposures in vaccines, medications, and dietary supplement prod-
      ucts (e.g., vitamins, probiotics), which are not regulated by labelling laws.
      Also, excipients (i.e., substances added to medications to improve various
      characteristics) may be food or derived from foods (Kelso, 2014). These
      include milk proteins; soy derivatives; oils from sesame, peanut, fish or
      soy; and beef or fish gelatin. The medications involved include vaccines;
      anesthetics; and oral, topical, and injected medications. With perhaps the
      exception of gelatin, reactions appear to be rare overall, likely because
      little residual protein is included in the final preparation of these items. The
      specific risk for each medication is not known.
      Vaccines also may contain food allergens, such as egg protein or gela-
      tin.”

      • #76 Wzrd1
        February 15, 2017

        With perhaps the
        exception of gelatin, reactions appear to be rare overall, likely because
        little residual protein is included in the final preparation of these items.

        OK, so then the howler is in the next sentence.

        Vaccines also may contain food allergens, such as egg protein or gela-
        tin.

        Which is it? The proteins aren’t there or are there or is this a famous cat that’s dead and not dead?
        Hint: Schrödinger’s cat never existed, it was a thought experiment. Proteins are filtered out of medicinal oils, especially those used in real medicine (as opposed to homeopathic medicines or OTC crap, which is really food grade oil).

        Lord, oh lord, how I loathe those who add content that wasn’t originally present and am so intolerant for those who contradict themselves, but still believe that they’re right!

        • #77 vinu arumugham
          United States
          February 15, 2017

          I simply quoted the National Academy of Medicine report.

          So I assume your comments are directed at them …

          • #78 Wzrd1
            February 16, 2017

            I simply quoted the National Academy of Medicine report.

            Yeah, a PDF, which is text searchable, but that text was not present in the report.
            That’s one hell of a quote, out of your own rectum!*

            *See rectally procured “facts”.

          • #79 vinu arumugham
            United States
            February 16, 2017

            Try the page number, 241 of the document or 256 of the pdf.

          • #80 Wzrd1
            February 17, 2017

            Only when you agree that we’ll sit together and that cane bit.
            Otherwise, I’ll not waste my time again on you, vinu.

            Let’s review priorities. Watch paint dry, superior to wasting time with vinu. Fixing the clothes dryer, superior by far to wasting time with vinu. Watching grass grow, still superior to wasting time with vinu. Masturbating with a cheese grater, superior to wasting time with vinu’s sources.

    • #81 Wzrd1
      February 15, 2017

      For instance, Israel must be using specially-formulated vaccines that substitute sesame oil for the non-existent peaut oil. Which they would do because reasons.

      Yeah, sheer nonsense. Everyone knows that the peanut oil would be replaced by chickpea oil because of falafels.

      Yeah, I ain’t right either, but at least I can induce a grin by not even being wrong. 😉

  40. #82 frequent lurker
    February 14, 2017

    Peanut Oil has been used in Merck’s Adjuvant 65. This isn’t some mythical unicorn, and it apparently showed promise in the ’60s. The New York Times archive has two articles referencing this peanut oil adjuvant.
    https://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch/#/%22peanut+oil%22+adjuvant/

    This full article in Nature references Adjuvant 65 and may be of interest to some.
    http://www.nature.com/icb/journal/v82/n5/full/icb200475a.html#bib17

  41. #83 frequent lurker
    February 14, 2017

    However. The vaccine text entitled Vaccine Adjuvants and Delivery Systems speaks of a 1972 study which found unacceptable toxicity with this adjuvant, and licensure was never granted as a consequence. I will hide this extremely long Google Book URL in a hyperlink.

    Peanut Oil has certainly been used in vaccines experimentally, but I have yet to find proof of it’s use outside of the lab.

    Maybe someone else can continue this spelunking; someone that has access to these 40-year old journal articles.

    • #84 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 14, 2017

      Peanut oil is NOT approved for use as an adjuvant in vaccines approved for use in the US, per the FDA.

      But peanut oil is approved for use in injections.

      http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(14)00432-1/fulltext#sec5.1
      “The package inserts for dimercaprol for injection, progesterone capsules, and valproic acid capsules list peanut oil as an ingredient, and the former 2 drugs also list peanut allergy as a precaution. However, there are no reports of allergic reactions to peanut oil in these medications, presumably because pure peanut oil is not allergenic.”

      Two points:
      1. So, ANY injection including vaccines can be contaminated with peanut oil.
      2. Allergen quantity needed to develop allergy (sensitization) is LESS than allergen quantity required to cause a reaction. So injections that don’t cause a reaction, can still cause the development of an allergy. Example: Flublok (egg-free recombinant) contains 3X the HA proteins than a regular vaccine. Regular vaccines cause the development of HA allergy. Flublok will cause you to react.

      Allergic reactions after egg-free recombinant influenza vaccine: reports to the US Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25428412

      • #85 Dorit Reiss
        February 15, 2017

        Jumping from the fact that there are other medications that explicitly tell you they have peanut oil to a claim that vaccines have it doesn’t work.

        If anything, your other examples show that when peanut oil is in something it’s stated.

        • #86 vinu arumugham
          February 16, 2017

          Polysorbate 80 is sourced from vegetable sources. Those sources are not listed in any vaccine package insert.

          As the NAM report says below, “no labeling laws”.
          “Excipients may be food or food derived … including peanut”

          https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23658/finding-a-path-to-safety-in-food-allergy-assessment-of

          NAM report pg.241
          “Allergens in Vaccines, Medications, and Dietary Supplements

          Physicians and patients with food allergy must consider potential food
          allergen exposures in vaccines, medications, and dietary supplement prod-
          ucts (e.g., vitamins, probiotics), which are not regulated by labelling laws.
          Also, excipients (i.e., substances added to medications to improve various
          characteristics) may be food or derived from foods (Kelso, 2014). These
          include milk proteins; soy derivatives; oils from sesame, peanut, fish or
          soy; and beef or fish gelatin. The medications involved include vaccines;
          anesthetics; and oral, topical, and injected medications. With perhaps the
          exception of gelatin, reactions appear to be rare overall, likely because
          little residual protein is included in the final preparation of these items. The
          specific risk for each medication is not known.
          Vaccines also may contain food allergens, such as egg protein or gela-
          tin.”

      • #87 Wzrd1
        February 15, 2017

        1. So, ANY injection including vaccines can be contaminated with peanut oil.

        Yet another rectally procured “fact”, as such is not in the article provided, as usual.

        2. Allergen quantity needed to develop allergy (sensitization) is LESS than allergen quantity required to cause a reaction.

        Not true and again, not in the article provided.
        I’ve learned two things about you, vinu. One, your colon is immense, its productivity phenomenal and must be considered a national treasure for the amount of fertilizer that it produces. Alas, that fertilizer must be composted before it is useful and it still shan’t be considered useful as fact.

        How about we save a little time? We’ll sit together, vinu. Each time you rectally source a fact, I hit you with my cane. If my cane breaks, you replace it with another like it.
        A quality wooden cane is only around $15. Although, I did have my eye on a nice carbon fiber number… 😉

  42. #88 vinu arumugham
    February 14, 2017

    Before somebody nitpicks …
    “Flublok will cause you to react”
    should be:
    Flublok CAN cause you to react.

  43. #89 theRidger
    February 15, 2017

    Stay away form this apparent clickbait article by Dr. Palevsky. Utter trash. It starts out:

    There is adequate scientific evidence that peanut oil has been used in vaccines since the 1960’s.

    Don’t hold your breath. If there is abundant evidence he is certainly economical with it.

    If current vaccine package inserts do not contain the specific evidence that peanut oil, or peanut meal, is contained within the final vaccine product, it does not mean that peanut antigen is not in the final vaccine product.

    True, but here comes the madness…

    Vaccine manufacturers use different growth media on which to manufacture the vaccines. They do not report, and I believe are not required to report, the exact ingredients in all of the growth media. Therefore, we may not know whether peanut antigen is used in the vaccine manufacturing process just by reading through the package inserts. Our lack of knowledge about it does not mean it isn’t knowledge waiting to be discovered. And, it may, or may not, have anything to do with an attempt to purposely hide the information that peanut antigen is present in vaccines.

    Okay, so if it isn’t listed on the label then it’s in the growth media? I thought he was going to explain how vaccines were covertly spiked to get rid of old Merck 65 stock. Never mind that peanut growth media probably isn’t suitable for growing anything besides a few peculiar strains of mold, and even then could probably be outdone by your classic Rye, Potato, or Rice media. The vaccine culturalist works with bacteria and viruses.

    I’m pretty sure that Stainer-Scholte medium, Mueller’s medium, and Lather medium are all standardized with well-defined compositions of which you can easily Google.

    So how does this guy go from “abundant proof” to speculating on a near absurdity?

    http://www.drpalevsky.com/articles_pages/346_peanut_oil_in_vaccines_since%20the_1960s.asp
    (Don’t bother)

    • #90 Wzrd1
      February 15, 2017

      Okay, so if it isn’t listed on the label then it’s in the growth media?

      Absolutely! If I grow a vaccine in radishes, I have to put dirt in the ingredient lists, so that vinu can tell us all proudly, “That vaccine has dirt in it!”.

    • #91 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 16, 2017

      “well-defined compositions”

      Yes, well-defined compositions including those from vegetable sources and contaminated with vegetable proteins. And of course animal proteins such as milk.

    • #92 vinu arumugham
      February 16, 2017

      And even if there was no peanut contamination, the vaccine antigens themselves have epitopes that resemble peanut epitopes.

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/310021910_Significant_protein_sequence_alignment_between_peanut_allergen_epitopes_and_vaccine_antigens?ev=prf_high

      • #93 Wzrd1
        February 17, 2017

        Again with the pay for play researchgate, a site lousy with controversy and nonsense. Why not whale dot to or infowars, while you’re at it?

  44. #94 Chris Preston
    Australia
    February 15, 2017

    It’s quite definitely unsafe for the intruder.

    Particularly at our house where any intruder would be licked to death.

    • #95 Wzrd1
      February 15, 2017

      Particularly at our house where any intruder would be licked to death.

      Our pit bull was infamous for her attacks. She’d reach up with her front claws, pull you down and lick anyone entering the house into submission, or something.

      The only time I ever saw her become aggressive was one time in the park, when a person who was known to be insane approached us and she aggressively barked and got between us.
      The rest of the time, she was friends with the world.
      I still didn’t trust her unsupervised with small children, too easy to accidentally knock a kid over by accident.

  45. #96 Julian Frost
    Gauteng North
    February 15, 2017

    @vinu:

    If what you claim were possible, babies would inherit the ability to generate antibodies to ALL the diseases the parents suffered too.

    Did you even read the data RK supplied?

  46. #97 Murmur
    UK-ia
    February 15, 2017

    Julian, of course he didn’t: he doesn’t even read most of the stuff he links to himself; or if he does he cannot understand it as he keeps claiming things say the opposite if what they do, so he’ll stand no chance with Roger’s references.

    • #98 Wzrd1
      February 15, 2017

      Julian, of course he didn’t: he doesn’t even read most of the stuff he links to himself…

      Fair’s fair, I don’t read 99+% of the drivel that vinu pastes in myself. Each time I did, I found either the polar opposite of what he wrote or it was unrelated to what he wrote.

  47. #99 herr doktor bimler
    February 15, 2017

    Bee sting are much rarer. So people can still withstand several bee stings but evolution did not prepare us for beekeeping levels of stings.

    Our primate and hominid ancestors have been foraging for honey for much, much longer than they were cultivating apples, long before a seperate speciality of “bee-keeping” emerged to incur all the burden of bee-stings. But I get it, the “argument from evolution” is only intended to explain why we are *not* allergic to some environmental exposures, and can be conveniently ignored for everything to which we *are* allergic.

    Peanut Oil has certainly been used in vaccines experimentally, but I have yet to find proof of it’s use outside of the lab.

    In addition, records of peanut anaphylaxis goes back at least to 1920, long before the 1960s research into the use of peanut oil as an adjuvant. Yet Vinu reckons that we evolved to tolerate peanuts ‘until some incompetent “experts” started injecting it into people’. HOW CAN THIS BE?!

  48. #100 Rebecca Fisher
    That London
    February 15, 2017

    @HDB – 66

    BECAUSE HE’S AN ARSE.

    🙂

  49. #101 doug
    February 15, 2017

    Given that peanuts are from the New World it seems extremely unlikely that there could have been sufficient global evolution of humans to eliminate intolerance.

  50. #102 Politicalguineapig
    February 15, 2017

    Vinu: Oh, that hoary old paper again. I don’t know if you’re aware of this, Vinny, but we have made a lot of progress since then. A hundred years ago, people thought that the flu was a bacterial disease, that the miasma theory still had some juice in it, and more soldiers died of diphtheria and dysentery than from enemy action.

    While I couldn’t find the world wide death rate for diphtheria for 2016, the fact that I found 3 deaths in Venezuela, 2 in Malaysia, suggests that it’s really low now. Dysentery is practically unknown in most countries. And you, for some reason, want us to go back to those days. Maybe you should do some reading of historical records, instead of listening to rogue neurons rattling around your empty skull.

  51. #103 shay simmons
    February 15, 2017

    Particularly at our house where any intruder would be licked to death.

    We call the younger dog the Kissing Bandit.

  52. #104 Lawrence
    February 15, 2017

    Wonder what vinu-idiot makes of the upcoming “peanut allergy” vaccine…..

    • #105 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 16, 2017

      Don’t trust the guys who created the problem, to solve it.

  53. #106 Johnny
    127.0.0.1
    February 15, 2017

    He claims that injections cause allergies when they have aluminum in them, but if you leave that out then injections can treat allergies – or at least for grasses.

    • #107 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 16, 2017

      There are two states of allergy. IgE dominated and IgG4 dominated. IgE and IgG4 are of course primarily defense mechanisms against worm infections. IgE state corresponds to a low level of infection. IgG4 corresponds to a high level of infection.
      In the IgE dominated case, the body produces a strong allergic response. In the IgG4 dominated case, the body scales back the response to avoid damaging itself.

      Allergen immunotherapy is about slowly moving from an IgE to an IgG4 dominated state, by increasing the level of allergen “infection”..

      Turner JD, Faulkner H, Kamgno J, Kennedy MW, Behnke J, Boussinesq M, et al. Allergen-specific IgE and IgG4 are markers of resistance and susceptibility in a human intestinal nematode infection. Microbes Infect. 2005;7(7-8):990–6.

    • #108 vinu arumugham
      February 16, 2017

      And food contaminated vaccines take you from an IgE/IgG4 free state, to an IgE dominated allergy state.
      And remember IgG4 state is not a cure, it is currently thought to be a more tolerable disease state. The IgG4 state can cause diseases such as eosinophilic esophagitis. IgG4 state is not a cure. So our allergic children have been condemned to walk this narrow path between two disease states, thanks to our food protein contaminated vaccines.

  54. #109 herr doktor bimler
    February 15, 2017

    “The package inserts for dimercaprol for injection, progesterone capsules, and valproic acid capsules list peanut oil as an ingredient, and the former 2 drugs also list peanut allergy as a precaution. ….”
    Two points:
    1. So, ANY injection including vaccines can be contaminated with peanut oil.

    OFFS. “Dimercaprol for injection” is not ‘contaminated with peanut oil’, it contains peanut oil AS AN INGREDIENT — on account of dimercaprol being non-water-soluble. While “progesterone capsules, and valproic acid capsules” incorporate peanut oil as an ingredient for the same purpose, and of course are NOT INJECTED.

    Vinu has regressed to the point of basically arguing that “peanut butter contains peanut oil, therefore ANY product can be contaminated with peanut oil”.

    • #110 Wzrd1
      February 15, 2017

      OFFS. “Dimercaprol for injection” is not ‘contaminated with peanut oil’, it contains peanut oil AS AN INGREDIENT — on account of dimercaprol being non-water-soluble. While “progesterone capsules, and valproic acid capsules” incorporate peanut oil as an ingredient for the same purpose, and of course are NOT INJECTED.

      Now, there you go again, trying to confuse the *issues* with silly little things like facts.

    • #111 vinu arumugham
      February 15, 2017

      Peanut oil is approved for injections. Vaccines contain numerous excipients (Polysorbate 80, sorbitol, antibiotics, etc.). Contamination is therefore possible at numerous points.
      Murphy’s law applies.
      Assuming vaccines are peanut protein-free is just wishful thinking.

      The most sensitive peanut protein detector on the planet is called the human immune system. It detected peanut protein in one or more of these vaccines:

      https://wao.confex.com/wao/2015symp/webprogram/Paper9336.html

      • #112 Wzrd1
        February 16, 2017

        Contamination is therefore possible at numerous points.

        Therefore, all injections, from this day forward, are expressly forbidden!
        Courtesy of the village idiot and his Nirvana Fallacy. It it can be fouled up, it must be forbidden.

        Here’s a thought experiment. Rabies vaccine is a rather primitive vaccine, likely contaminated. I’ll produce a rabid animal to bite you, do you accept the peanut filled vaccine (your standard, not mine) or die?
        As I’m intimately familiar with contraindications and indications, side effects, etc and have honestly considered a cricothyrotomy in an under 12 year old child, considering everything up to and including a can lid as a surgical instrument and it was my own, turning blue daughter, do you honestly want to reconsider?
        Had I been forced to proceed, it was likely that she’d never be capable of speech again.
        Do you really want to proceed?*

        *Thankfully, just as I was reaching for my belt knife and had sent my wife for various items in the establishment that I’d require, I managed to dislodge the airway obstruction.
        To be brutally honest, having been in firefights quite a few times and that experience, I far preferred a direct threat to my own life.

  55. #113 herr doktor bimler
    February 15, 2017

    i suspect that Vinu’s mental model of pharmaceutical manufacturing is rather like the popular conception of a large bakery, with flours and chocolate and peanuts all going in at one end of the production line, and peanut brownies coming out on the conveyor belt at the other. Then the bakery switches over to a production run of (let’s say) Tim-Tams, but they warn consumers that these “may contain peanuts” because of possible residual flour.

    In Vinu’s mind, there is a single centralised Pharma factory making everything. So there is a run of Dimercaprol, until the stockpiles of arsenic-poisoning chelator are high enough; then the machinery is switched over to making Epilim tablets; then it is switched again and vaccines are coming out on the conveyor belt, but they’re contaminated [cue scary theremin music] with peanut oil from the previous production runs.

    I don’t think that’s how it works, Vinu.

    • #114 Dorit Reiss
      February 15, 2017

      Definitely not for biologics. Biologics license involve licensing not just the product but the production facility, and there are pretty strict requirements.

      • #115 vinu arumugham
        United States
        February 16, 2017

        The biologics production facility still has to use excipients produced at other facilities. And as the NAM report noted, there are no labeling laws to track contamination.

        • #116 Wzrd1
          February 17, 2017

          Um, no. Part of the certification is a certification of sources of components.
          Do your homework!

  56. #117 Chris Preston
    February 15, 2017

    Wonder what vinu-idiot makes of the upcoming “peanut allergy” vaccine…..

    Let me see.

    It will be CONTAMINATED WITH PEANUTS!!!!ELEVENTYONE!!!

    WOOOOOOOOHAWOOOOOOOOOOOOOHAWOOOOOO

  57. #118 herr doktor bimler
    February 16, 2017

    Biologics license involve licensing not just the product but the production facility, and there are pretty strict requirements.

    In the case of Vinu’s example of Dimercaprol, Imma pretty sure that the world’s supply comes from a handful of factories in China and India. Which reduces the opportunities for contaminating the Merck vaccine of your choice.

    • #119 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 16, 2017

      Again, you are forgetting the worldwide supply chain of excipients used in vaccines.

      • #120 Wzrd1
        February 17, 2017

        Again, you failed to actually look up and learn how a facility gains certification and how it can lose it.
        Sources of components are also part of the certification, indeed, decertification has occurred and recalls have occurred for using a non-certified source, long before a drug made it into distribution.

  58. #121 Lawrence
    February 16, 2017

    And vinu is ignoring the strict standard by which vaccine are manufactured and tested….in fact, if you check out the official lists of “recalled” vaccines, you’ll find that most, if not all of them, were identified by the manufacturer themselves through internal testing procedures.

    • #122 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 16, 2017

      “strict standard”

      What is the use of strict standards when peanut oil is an APPROVED contaminant? And of course there are numerous food proteins DOCUMENTED and present in vaccines, such as milk, soy, egg proteins.

  59. #123 Keating Willcox
    February 16, 2017

    Interesting link Vinu, but just because a vaccine increases IgG production that are specific to peanuts does not mean that the vaccines contained peanut proteins.

    The vaccines may simply be amplifying IgG production.

    This is complicated stuff. I hope Vinu that you can check for foreign proteins in vaccines. Can you simply centrifuge the vaccines and then take the protein fraction and run one of those neat bioassays on the protein fraction, they type that immunologists use. What is that…ELISA?

    Has this been done Vinu? I apologize if you had posted information on this that I had glossed over.

  60. #126 WolfgangM
    Vienna
    February 16, 2017

    The most active anti-vaxer, AIDS denialist, virus- denialist etc pp Hans Tolzin (no academic education) has collected money to look what is in vaccines. He wanted to detect mercury- but this was not found in the vaccines examined- because it is no longer addded in the production process, and also not used as preservative.
    He now published the results. Details of the analytical procedure are not given, but the outcome is: vaccines are very clean. Until now only elements were shown in the results. It is unclear of vaccines have been expired or were within expiry date. It is also unclear were applied like injections ? That means if the vaccine went through the stainless free needle or was otherwise applied to the analytical instruments.

    Details are given here. Note, that results are given in µg/lt (=ng/ml)

    http://www.agbug.de/download/Impfstoffuntersuchung01.pdf

    @vinu: alls excipients in vaccines are from controlled origin, have analytical certicficates including purity and contaminats. Allergies to snake oil, peanut oil etc are not known. One should consider the amount/concentration of an allergen, which can cause an IgE mediated allergy.

    People allegic to hens egg albumin can be safely vaccinated with MMR- vaccines

    • #127 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 16, 2017

      “@vinu: alls excipients in vaccines are from controlled origin, have analytical certicficates including purity and contaminats. Allergies to snake oil, peanut oil etc are not known.”

      Please post pointer to the certificates.

      ” One should consider the amount/concentration of an allergen, which can cause an IgE mediated allergy.”

      Please cite relevant scientific literature.

      https://www.emdmillipore.com/US/en/product/Tween-80-%28Polysorbate%29,MDA_CHEM-817061#documentation

      says:

      “The following materials are used as raw material but are not present in

      the final product: Maize, Wheat

      We point out that we do not perform any testing on allergens in the

      above-mentioned product.”

      Polysorbate and other excipients derived from vegetable sources are present in many other vaccines and most suppliers do not have allergen information.

      And if they don’t test it, how do they know the allergen is not present?

    • #128 vinu arumugham
      February 16, 2017

      “People allegic to hens egg albumin can be safely vaccinated with MMR- vaccines”

      Two separate issues. It takes LESS allergen to cause the development of allergy than it takes to have a allergic reaction. People with egg allergy can safely get MMR but a non-allergic person who gets MMR can develop egg allergy.

      Please see section:
      “Sensitization needs less injected allergen than elicitation”
      in:
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285580954_Evidence_that_Food_Proteins_in_Vaccines_Cause_the_Development_of_Food_Allergies_and_Its_Implications_for_Vaccine_Policy?ev=prf_high

    • #129 Wzrd1
      February 17, 2017

      Wow! I didn’t realize that my German has atrophied so far from disuse!
      It took me a full minute to translate the elements. :/

      I guess we’ll have to have an extended vacation in Germany. Maybe in October, when all of the best foods get prepared, along with the beer sampling. 😉

      Looking at the sample and recalling German soil composition, those results look extremely suspect. Did they, perchance, mistakenly dilute a soil sample from a farm, then remove the nitrogen, carbon and hydrogen results?

  61. #130 herr doktor bimler
    February 17, 2017

    Again, you are forgetting the worldwide supply chain of excipients used in vaccines.

    So Vinu’s current thesis is that peanut allergens are so widespread in consumer-product consumption that they find their way into vaccines not through specifically pharmaceutical ingredients, but through contamination of the Polysorbate 80 and other multiple-use products.

    In which case there was no point in raising the use of peanut oil as a solvent in a couple of pharmaceutical products, except to muddy with water with FUD, and to make himself look like a cockwomble.

    Here’s the problem… if polysorbate-80 is routinely contaminated with peanut allergens, well, the stuff is used in everything from toothpaste to ice-cream, children’s ice-cream, Mandrake! Therefore peanut-allergic individuals are going into shock after every exposure to toothpaste, no wait, they’re not.

    • #131 Wzrd1
      February 17, 2017

      if polysorbate-80 is routinely contaminated with peanut allergens, well, the stuff is used in everything from toothpaste to ice-cream, children’s ice-cream, Mandrake! Therefore peanut-allergic individuals are going into shock after every exposure to toothpaste, no wait, they’re not.

      No, they’re not all dying. Obviously, in vinu land, they’re all dead.
      Hence, still not a problem.
      Or something.

      That nanu nanu finds a no no no no inside of everything, due to the oddly non-hernia driving goalpost shifting into nanu nanu land.

    • #132 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 18, 2017

      Toothpaste Allergy Diagnosis and Management
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922711/

  62. #133 Alain
    February 17, 2017

    Wzrd1@80,

    How about taking a dump? (Way better than arguing with vinu).

    Al

  63. #134 Alain
    Success at last :D
    February 17, 2017

    For the computer geek among us:

    alain@johnson ~ $ python
    Python 2.7.12 (default, Jan 29 2017, 19:52:04)
    [GCC 5.3.0] on linux2
    Type “help”, “copyright”, “credits” or “license” for more information.
    >>> import tensorflow as tf
    I tensorflow/stream_executor/dso_loader.cc:135] successfully opened CUDA library libcublas.so.8.0 locally
    I tensorflow/stream_executor/dso_loader.cc:135] successfully opened CUDA library libcudnn.so.5 locally
    I tensorflow/stream_executor/dso_loader.cc:135] successfully opened CUDA library libcufft.so.8.0 locally
    I tensorflow/stream_executor/dso_loader.cc:135] successfully opened CUDA library libcuda.so.1 locally
    I tensorflow/stream_executor/dso_loader.cc:135] successfully opened CUDA library libcurand.so.8.0 locally
    >>> hello = tf.constant(‘Hello, TensorFlow!’)
    >>> sess = tf.Session()
    I tensorflow/stream_executor/cuda/cuda_gpu_executor.cc:910] successful NUMA node read from SysFS had negative value (-1), but there must be at least one NUMA node, so returning NUMA node zero
    I tensorflow/core/common_runtime/gpu/gpu_device.cc:885] Found device 0 with properties:
    name: Quadro K2000M
    major: 3 minor: 0 memoryClockRate (GHz) 0.745
    pciBusID 0000:01:00.0
    Total memory: 1.95GiB
    Free memory: 1.92GiB
    I tensorflow/core/common_runtime/gpu/gpu_device.cc:906] DMA: 0
    I tensorflow/core/common_runtime/gpu/gpu_device.cc:916] 0: Y
    I tensorflow/core/common_runtime/gpu/gpu_device.cc:975] Creating TensorFlow device (/gpu:0) -> (device: 0, name: Quadro K2000M, pci bus id: 0000:01:00.0)
    >>> print(sess.run(hello))
    Hello, TensorFlow!
    >>> quit()

    Next task in line, register for a genomics stream of courses on coursera or edx to put that beauty to good use at crunching genomics tasks[1].

    Alain

    [1] == way better than dealing with vinu…

  64. #135 Johnny
    127.0.0.1
    February 18, 2017

    So in response to –

    Here’s the problem… if polysorbate-80 is routinely contaminated with peanut allergens, well, the stuff is used in everything from toothpaste to ice-cream, children’s ice-cream, Mandrake! Therefore peanut-allergic individuals are going into shock after every exposure to toothpaste, no wait, they’re not.

    vinu post a link to an article that doesn’t include the words “peanut” or “polysorbate-80”.

    Why?

    • #136 vinu arumugham
      United States
      February 18, 2017

      To show that:
      1. Toothpaste allergy exists.
      2. Toothpaste (like vaccines) are contaminated with so many proteins that nobody can be sure what caused someone’s reaction.

  65. #137 herr doktor bimler
    February 18, 2017

    Polysorbate and other excipients derived from vegetable sources are present in many other vaccines and most suppliers do not have allergen information.
    And if they don’t test it, how do they know the allergen is not present?

    Vinu answered that question himself when he earlier wrote

    The most sensitive peanut protein detector on the planet is called the human immune system.

    Therefore the best way of testing whether polysorbate-80 contains peanut allergens is to put the product in toothpaste, ice-cream, cosmetics, detergent, etc. where human peanut detectors will consume it in large amounts, externally and internally. Which is happening… “In Europe and America, people eat about 100 mg of polysorbate 80 in foods per day on average.” The results are resoundingly negative.
    I hope Vinu is reassured.

  66. #138 Patricia Matte Matte Bastos
    Deutschland
    February 19, 2017

    You should check your facts. You are talking about a list that does not even exists anymore.
    Beall’s List of Predatory Publishers
    Update 1/17/17 6:05 p.m. Eastern: We’ve received a statement from the University of Colorado Denver:

    Jeffrey Beall, associate professor and librarian at the University of Colorado Denver, has decided to no longer maintain or publish his research or blog on open access journals and “predatory publishers.” CU Denver supports and recognizes the important work Professor Beall has contributed to the field and to scholars worldwide. CU Denver also understands and respects his decision to take down his website scholarlyoa.com at this time. Professor Beall remains on the faculty at the university and will be pursuing new areas of research.

  67. #139 Narad
    February 19, 2017

    You should check your facts.

    You should check the link.

    You are talking about a list that does not even exists anymore.

    What are the received and published dates on the paper, again? Do you think Medcrave suddenly came to Jesus because Beall took down the list?

  68. #140 herr doktor bimler
    February 19, 2017

    2. Toothpaste (like vaccines) are contaminated with so many proteins that nobody can be sure what caused someone’s reaction.

    Sometimes I could swear that Vinu is really a Simpson character who escaped into the Intertubes.

  69. […] that vaccines were hopelessly “dirty” and “contaminated” but in reality showed nothing of the sort. Just peruse the CMSRI website. Look at its Scientific Advisory Board, which is packed to the gills […]

  70. #142 Don Mega
    March 14, 2017

    i’m not gonna go into endless arguments whether the amounts are minuscule or too much to be concerned with. i think no one can be certain how much is too much so i understand the view on demanding extreme purity.

    looking at how in US 24 difference vaccines are given to babies under 1 year old, which is more than in any other country, and US has a massive autism epidemic, so something must be causing it. unless you have a better suggestion, then in the meantime this vaccine contamination issue and it’s additives such as mercury (which was suppose to be removed already in 2009) is where i suggest we need to keep looking at.

    if the vaccine manufacturers came up with this data people would certainly be questioning it, but it’d atleast have shown their attempt to show their stuff to be uncontaminated. perhaps they knew this could be an issue and chose not to research it further.

    despite whatever the blog writer thought of the amounts is irrelevant cos he’s just 1 person. the data is valuable and i think there’s probably as many people who think the amounts are big enough to look at, than there are those who think it’s acceptable. especially those who are hired by big pharma to grassroot lobby that way 😉

    • #143 Christine Rose
      March 15, 2017

      I gotta say that this comment really makes me sad. You’ve obviously spent a fair amount of time looking at this issue, yet every statement you make is wrong, and worse, every statement you make has been addressed on this blog. So if you found your way here, you should have the resources to answer your own questions.

      The US does not have the largest vaccine schedule. There is not an autism epidemic. Autism is a fairly new diagnosis. These people used to be called schizophrenic or retarded.
      There’s debate whether there’s a small real increase or whether it’s all changes in diagnoses.

      No one knows how much is too much, but we know there’s a white area, a grey area, and a black area, and vaccine preservatives are in the white. To claim otherwise is to claim we simply can’t know anything to the millionith billionith degree, and that claim is empty and pointless.

      The opionions on this blog are more than a bit caustic, but they are not one person’s opinion. They’re scientific data. A lot of data. And Orac is not hired by big pharma to do this. That’s just made up. If you believe it, you should put up or shut up.

      If you really want to have an opinion on this, and you won’t trust the people who have studied it all their lives, then learn enough statistics and biology to convince yourself. Don’t just quote irresponsible liars. You do you and yours no favors by basing your medical decisions on lies.

  71. #144 LouV
    France
    March 15, 2017

    To add to Christine Rose’s answer : we have truckloads of “better suggestions” for a possible environmental cause of autism. Age of parents, weight of mother, in utero exposure to drugs (valproate), diseases, pesticides (just avoid Seneff’s work on this issue) or pollution, and the list goes on… Suggesting that there aren’t any better leads does not speak well of your knowledge on current autism research.

  72. #146 Dangerous Bacon
    March 15, 2017

    Don: “looking at how in US 24 difference vaccines are given to babies under 1 year old”

    The actual recommended number is 7 separate vaccines for children under the age of 1.

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/child/0-18yrs-schedule.pdf

    Where did you get the idea it was 24 different vaccines, Don? And since that number is obviously erroneous, perhaps you should rethink the accuracy of other information from such a source.

  73. #148 Calli Arcale
    http://fractalwonder.wordpress.com
    March 15, 2017

    Don Mega:

    i’m not gonna go into endless arguments whether the amounts are minuscule or too much to be concerned with. i think no one can be certain how much is too much so i understand the view on demanding extreme purity.

    Then you utterly and completely fail. Whether the amounts are miniscule or too much is precisely the question that needs answering if you want to know if vaccines are safe. Avoiding that question because it yields uncomfortable results for you says that you are not actually interested in the truth. You just want a reason to justify your distaste for vaccines.

    The amounts detected are so miniscule they could just as easily be contamination from the lab apparatus. This does not matter to you? This still frightens you? Then you are actively resisting learning what is actually harmful. You prefer fear to knowledge. I find that rather tragic.

  74. #149 herr doktor bimler
    March 15, 2017

    Montanari’s claims were examined in Franch last year.

    The French medicine-safety agency ANSM examined the purity of vaccines, using SEM for qualitative analysis and “Inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry” for quantitative analysis. Then:

    Conclusions
    Le CSST, réuni à nouveau le 13 mai 2016, a étudié les résultats des analyses conduites sur le vaccin Méningitec par l’ANSM, le Pr Alvarez et le Dr Montanari. Les données présentées dans le rapport du Dr Montanari ont été considérées comme difficilement interprétables en raison de problèmes méthodologiques.

    That is, as an expert witness, Montanari lacked expertise or basic competence.

    (Thanks Camille over at OcaSapiens).

  75. #150 dingo199
    March 22, 2017

    Yes, the hypothesis was that narcolepsy could be triggered by Pandemrix vaccine through the hypocretin receptor.

    However, the original paper proposing this was subsequently retracted.
    http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/6/247/247rt1

  76. #152 Julian Frost
    Gauteng East Rand
    March 22, 2017

    @vinu arumugham #151, the name of the publication you linked to is “Science Translational Medicine”, a name that suggests quackery. In addition, I could only access the abstract. Finally, the last sentence includes the phrase “may explain”.
    Once again, you got a whole load of conjecture, and little else besides.

    • #153 vinu arumugham
      United States
      March 23, 2017

      Yes, yes it is quackery. Dr.Offit accepted the conclusion and cited it though.
      You should tutor him on his journal choices.

      http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/855558

      The font for the word “Science” is different. May be that makes a difference? The full article is behind a pay wall, sorry.

  77. #154 wolfgangM
    Vienna
    March 23, 2017

    Paul Offit in medscape (free registration)

    Hi. My name is Paul Offit. I’m talking to you today from the Vaccine Education Center here at The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

    Of interest, in the past couple of months, an influenza vaccine is now on track for licensure. It’s called Fluad®. It is different from all of the other vaccines that we have ever used in this country in that it contains an adjuvant named “squalene.” Squalene is derived from shark oil. We all have squalene in our bodies. It’s part of cholesterol synthesis.

    Adding squalene to an influenza vaccine is the third time that an adjuvant has been used in the United States. The first adjuvant was aluminum salts, which are contained in a number of vaccines. The second was monophosphoryl lipid A—a detoxified lipid A product that is present in one of the human papillomavirus vaccines. Squalene will be the third adjuvant used in this country.

    Squalene has been used in other countries, and it’s an excellent adjuvant. If you look at the data with the squalene adjuvant in influenza vaccine, you can see that in people over age 65 years, it induces a better immune response than the inactivated influenza vaccine that is not adjuvanted. And it’s more likely to induce broader cross-reactivity when there is a mismatch of strains. For all of these reasons, I think this will be an excellent product.

    The issue, however, that no doubt will come up is that, in 2009, associated with the pandemic influenza that swept across the world, a squalene-adjuvanted influenza vaccine was used in Europe as well as in Scandinavian countries. It was called Pandemrix®, and it was found to be a rare cause of narcolepsy, which is a disorder of wakefulness. Depending on which country you looked at, the incidence of narcolepsy was from 1 in 16,000 to 1 in 50,000 people who got that vaccine.

    However, another squalene-adjuvanted pandemic influenza vaccine that was used, called Focetria®, did not cause this problem.

    In a recent paper in Science Translational Medicine,[1] researchers explained the difference between those two vaccines. The difference was that whereas Pandemrix contained a fair amount of influenza nucleoprotein, Focetria didn’t contain that influenza nucleoprotein. And the nucleoprotein was the key because it appears that nucleoprotein has molecular mimicry with at least one of the receptors for hypocretin, the product made by cells in the hypothalamus that is associated with wakefulness. Apparently, it was a phenomenon of autoimmunity. Antibodies directed against the cells that produced hypocretin were made, and these antibodies destroyed those cells and caused the permanent disorder of narcolepsy.

    Some people will fear squalene, especially squalene-adjuvanted influenza vaccines, because of the experience with narcolepsy. Realize, however, that the problem is not the squalene but rather the squalene plus the influenza nucleoprotein. It’s an avoidable problem. All one has to do is to make sure that there is no contaminating influenza nucleoprotein in the squalene-adjuvanted flu vaccine. That problem has been fixed.

    Hopefully, this information will help you in trying to deal with the inevitable concerns about squalene-adjuvanted influenza vaccine in the United States. Thank you.

  78. #155 Bill
    April 18, 2017

    Orac, too bad you failed to research the Cervarix vaccine and find that there are 500mcg of aluminum hydroxide per 0.5ml dose of Cervarix. And it is not an unintentional contaminant, but is there purposefully to act as an adjuvant. Your entire presentation is non-credible. You’ve only succeeded in demonstrating that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

  79. #156 madder
    April 18, 2017

    Bill, you seem to be implying that you have research skills superior to Orac’s. That’s great. Please educate us as to the amount of aluminum that’s present in 500 µg of aluminum hydroxide, and then point us to the peer-reviewed scientific research showing that this dosage of aluminum has a deleterious effect on human health. You don’t want your entire presentation to be non-credible, do you?

    You might save yourself some time by using the search box at the top of this page to see if Orac has discussed “aluminum” in the context of vaccines. Just a thought.

    • #157 Orac
      April 18, 2017

      There is actually something I missed and should have commented on, but it’s not what Bill thinks it was. Finding so few aluminum hydroxide precipitate particles is another reason to question the study. Aluminum hydroxide should have precipitated out of solution big time under vacuum. Yet the authors found so little? Hmmm….

  80. #158 Julian Frost
    Gauteng North
    April 18, 2017

    @Bill, it is YOU who does not know what he is talking about.
    Adjuvants are NOT contaminants.

  81. #159 Chris
    April 18, 2017

    madder: “…Then point us to the peer-reviewed scientific research showing that this dosage of aluminum has a deleterious effect on human health.”

    Another criteria should be that it not be a speaker at this “conference” sponsored by the Dwoskin family:
    http://www.vaccinesafetyconference.com/speakers.html

  82. #160 madder
    April 18, 2017

    @Chris:

    Yeah, Bill looks to be one of those people afflicted with fractally-wrong ideas, with obvious implications for his sources. It might be fun to set up a crackpot bingo game or otherwise take bets on what those sources might be.

  83. #161 WolfgangM
    April 19, 2017

    The presentations of this “conference” of the anti-vaccine lobby

    http://www.vaccinesafetyconference.com/speakers.html

    are also available as youtube videos. The Aluminium “expert” Chris Exley states in his video, that aluminium is an “antigen” (atomic weight 27 !!!) . And in his publication Exley does never mention which internal controls (if any) he is using nor can one find the use of international Al- Standards.
    So one can asume that his findings are not validated. But he is funded be the Dwoskin Family Foundation.

  84. #162 Narad
    April 19, 2017

    Another criteria should be that it not be a speaker at this “conference” sponsored by the Dwoskin family

    The bio for Shiv Chopra is really something to behold:

    “His latest book, CORRUPT TO THE CORE: Memoirs of a Health Canada Whistleblower, was published in English and French in 2009, due to which he is frequently referred to as the most persistent whistleblower in Canada.”

    If you say so.