Pharyngula

An early Christmas present!

Watch Bill Donohue explode! I know, it’s so easy to set him off, so it’s not much of a present…maybe we should think of it as a reassuringly repetitive holiday tradition. This time he’s outraged because humanists bought ad space on city buses. It prompts him to a tirade about atheists, Hitler, and even fatwah envy — they’re always picking on Christmas, and don’t have the guts to abuse Ramadan, don’t you know.

Comments

  1. #1 Ken
    November 13, 2008

    We should do something for the people who put those ads up. We could send them (dare I say it?)….Christmas presents!! That would really get old billy boy’s dander up.

  2. #2 John Pieret
    November 13, 2008

    Be good for goodness sake? That’s almost as anti-Cristian as the do unto others stuff.

  3. #3 Milo Johnson
    November 13, 2008

    “Gay terrorists?”

  4. #4 Alex
    November 13, 2008

    Go to their site and donate. I did.

  5. #5 Escuerd
    November 13, 2008

    Shorter Bill Donohue: Everything good is from Christianity. Everything bad is due to atheism.

  6. #6 spgreenlaw
    November 13, 2008

    “Sociology 101 says that morality has always been grounded in religion!” -Billy Boy

    I am beginning to think Donohue hasn’t spent much time in any classroom since before the Enlightenment got it on.

  7. #7 Renholder
    November 13, 2008

    Yeah what’s up with those “gay terrorists?”

  8. #8 Matt Heath
    November 13, 2008

    Does he> even buy that “if you had guts you’d go after the Muslims” wank? I mean he knows>/em> he lives in a mostly Christian country, right?

  9. #9 Michelle
    November 13, 2008

    Gosh… I’m glad that guy is just a shierking flea. What a hateful whiny bitch…

  10. #10 Alex
    November 13, 2008
  11. #11 Glen Davidson
    November 13, 2008

    How bizarre, target Ramadan. That’ll grab people in this society.

    I will say that it’s a travesty that one could not target Ramadan in Saudi Arabia, or in most other Muslim countries.

    Donohue’s an idiot, since sociologists hardly claim that people in societies are good due to religion. There are reasons, and religion isn’t a first cause of anything.

    Glen D
    http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7

  12. #12 gypsytag
    November 13, 2008

    There’s a lot of pent up anger in bill. and i mean a lot. wow.
    When he has a heart attack, and i mean when, he’s going to be dead before he hits the ground.
    That man is in serious need of a group hug.

  13. #13 amon
    November 13, 2008

    oh, i know bill donohue is an easy target, but the only possible response to his spoutings is “pffffft hehehe”
    also: “hahaha, and LOLZORZS”
    for goodness’ sake (yes, the positioning of the apostrophe matters) the only reasonable response to “WHY DOESN’T HE DO IT AT RAMADAN ?” is kekekeke, what a chuffing muppet :D

  14. #14 Nerd of Redhead
    November 13, 2008

    Maybe everybody can chip in so Pharyngula can give poor Billy some chill-out pills and an anger management class. His doctor would probably thank us.

  15. #15 Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM
    November 13, 2008

    Do moderate Catholics even take him seriously any longer if ever?

  16. #16 Irene Delse
    November 13, 2008

    @ Rev BDC: These days, some moderate Catholics don’t even take seriously the Pope anymore.

  17. #17 Matt Heath
    November 13, 2008

    Actually there’s something serious under this point and laugh opportunity. Hard-right politics, and the worse kinds of religiousity really do seem to come first and foremost from a certain personal psychology. It’s just control freakery written large. “Argh! You can deviate from societal norms! You need reigning in by the convention and the law. And you can’t be trusted with morality. You need gods and churches to do that for you.”

  18. #18 gypsytag
    November 13, 2008

    Bill is an example of what happens to people when they spend their lives lying to defend lies. It clearly takes its toll.

  19. #19 Don Smith, FCD
    November 13, 2008

    My take away from this: he really does wish it were the 13th century so he could kill all the heathens!

  20. #20 Some Canadian Skeptic
    November 13, 2008

    Donahue: “Sociology 101 says that morality is grounded not in the individual but in religion”

    Ummmmmmmm……no it doesn’t. I guess I must have taken a different sociology course from him.

  21. #21 Bill
    November 13, 2008

    I think Donahue is correct, there is an agenda here. I just think the money could have been spent in much better ways. Again the people who are stupid enough to think that you can’t be good if you don’t believe in God are probably the ones who beleive in God. The ads are targeted and a non-existent audience and they know that. So what’s the agenda? to piss off the christians, get their faces on TV and promote their stupid webiste. The AHA could have given that money to the red cross so they could have saved some human lives. Maybe the christians should respond with an ad that says “Do you need to be a humanist to be a humanitarian?”…

  22. #22 Kobra
    November 13, 2008

    @20: That’s because you didn’t go to a cult private school.

  23. #23 Alex
    November 13, 2008

    Oh weird… I went to high school with the AHA guy they have on. Go Jesse! I’m going to go look him up on facebook and congratulate him.

  24. #24 MickyW
    November 13, 2008

    Gay terrorists stormed a church. Now that sounds like my idea of a fabulous Sunday. What did they do, re-hang the curtains ?

  25. #25 Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM
    November 13, 2008

    @ Rev BDC: These days, some moderate Catholics don’t even take seriously the Pope anymore.

    I guess that leads to this…

    Are moderate Catholics even Catholics?

  26. #26 Sven DiMilo
    November 13, 2008

    Hoo! Was his face red! Red as the suit of Santa Claus, the holy Catholic icon featured in these bus ads. They’re going after the second or third holiest day of the year, Jesus’s unbirthday!

  27. #27 marty
    November 13, 2008

    “Sticking their noses where they don’t belong”

    Yeah, ‘cuz Catholics never do that.

  28. #28 Matt Heath
    November 13, 2008

    MickeyW. They went in incognito then, made a load of noise and pissed off the congregation who were trying to do their service thing. Bad behaviour but not terrorizing anyone as such. If you go to the “blogs in network” tab and go to Dispatches from the Culture War there’s some stuff about it there.

  29. #29 Sven DiMilo
    November 13, 2008

    By the way, here’s the “gay terrorists” story. Terrorism! They shouted slogans and threw leaflets!!!

  30. #30 Lowell
    November 13, 2008

    Bill #21

    I look at it as what feminists call “consciousness raising”: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_raising

  31. #31 Barry
    November 13, 2008

    Gee, I hope they got permission to use that lyric line from Santa Claus is Comming to Town. There could be some spoil sports out there, like the ones who pissed in Ben Stein’s tent

  32. #32 Dances With Books
    November 13, 2008

    Man, he really did blow up (Donohue). What do they find so scary? The idea that we can be nice for the sake of being nice. Imagine that.

  33. #33 Sven DiMilo
    November 13, 2008

    Few more details on the “gay terrorists” here.
    I do not condone their disruptive “action,” but, really: “terrorists”???

  34. #34 AndrewC
    November 13, 2008

    Why does nobody ever call them out on the fact that going “well you don’t go after muslims” is a red herring? It has nothing to do with anything, and says nothing about atheists. Couldn’t we say the same back? Oh you pick on Stalin but secularists were the first to oppose slavery and materialism along with the reformation spurred the renaissance, if they really had any balls or really cared about christmas, they’d go after the muslims.

  35. #35 Teleprompter
    November 13, 2008

    Yeah, maybe Bill Donahue needs to look at the other threads on Pharyngula from today to learn that atheism is not communism, and that Nazi Germany wasn’t atheist, and that there are societies composed mostly of atheists and the non-religious which are quite peaceful and function exceedingly well. But as Ronald Reagan once accidentally said “facts are stupid things”.

  36. #36 Benny the Icepick
    November 13, 2008

    Atheism needs better spokespeople who are more professional and less smugly condescending. I don’t care if Galef is the smartest guy in the room, he shouldn’t act like he knows it. That smirk of his was supremely irritating.

    Granted, he can’t compare to Donohue’s redfaced blustering, but the kid could take a few lessons in screen presence.

  37. #37 Matt Heath
    November 13, 2008

    I guess that leads to this…

    Are moderate Catholics even Catholics?

    Yeah, they are. It’s not like most kinds of protestantism where belief is the defining factor. Catholicism is defined by membership. Once baptised, unless you explicitly reject it, catholicism is for life.

  38. #38 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    You can harly blame the gays for storming a church.
    Not only is Jesus nearly naked on the cross, he is H, O, T, hot.
    Put some assless chaps on him and start the parade!

  39. #39 Kel
    November 13, 2008

    Wow, fatwa envy. Only took him two sentences!

  40. #40 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    Hot damn! Gay terrorists. I’ll go too. But pulling the fire alarm is a bit too naughty.

  41. #41 rayceeya
    November 13, 2008

    Typical FOX news BS. They let Donaugh rattle on with the Atheism = Hitler meme and give the other guy a couple of seconds at the end to defend.

  42. #42 Rev. BigDumbChimp, KoT, OM
    November 13, 2008

    Yeah, they are. It’s not like most kinds of protestantism where belief is the defining factor. Catholicism is defined by membership. Once baptised, unless you explicitly reject it, catholicism is for life.

    So from Baptism to excommunication or death, no matter what you do you are a catholic?

  43. #43 Reginald Selkirk
    November 13, 2008

    Speaking of terrorists:

    Bishops Call Obama-Supported Abortion Rights Bill a Threat to Catholic Church
    Auxiliary Bishop Robert Hermann of St. Louis said that “any one of us would consider it a privilege to die tomorrow — to die tomorrow — to bring about the end of abortion.”

    It sounds like the Auxiliary Bishop is threatening to become a suicide bomber.

  44. #44 Kel
    November 13, 2008

    It’s good that things like this come to light, so when we are asked “why do we speak out?”, and we can point to this and show the absolute ignorance that the religious leaders put out there. Donohue is batshit insane, and all his flock need to break free and realise he is the voice of idiocy.

  45. #45 Lou FCD
    November 13, 2008

    Could someone please get Donohue some profession help? He clearly needs it.

  46. #46 Spiro Keat
    November 13, 2008

    The little hysterical guy seems to be unaware that Hitler was a practising catholic.

    Oh, and that tie with that shirt and jacket, I don’t think so!

  47. #47 Anders
    November 13, 2008

    @ 36, agree… and he gives alot of “you know..” between the lines, that always sounds insecure, like a old boxer with severe injuries.. He really came off bad.

    Stupid Don Ahu just comes off mad…

  48. #48 WRMartin
    November 13, 2008

    gypsytag @ #12

    That man is in serious need of a group hug.

    A great big old-fashioned oiled up Bear hug. With leather accessories.
    Closely followed by the AMI (heart attack), the thump of his body to the floor, then a funeral service in the newly remodeled (gone are those tacky curtains) chapel.

  49. #49 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Bill, #21, wrote:

    I just think the money could have been spent in much better ways.

    Er, you are aware the Pope lives in a palatial art museum, don’t you? And that the Catholic church makes billions of dollars in profit each year? Go to this thread if you don’t know what I’m talking about.

    You’d better take that gold-plated, diamond-encrusted beam out of your own eye first.

  50. #50 Eric Atkinson
    November 13, 2008

    Gay terrorists stormed a church.

    Do you mean Butt Pirates?

    The fact that these guys were gay does not mitigate the fact they disrupted someone else’s religious service. What should have happened to these jerks is that they had the fuck beat out of them by those fine church going people. People can protest all they like but if say, some “right to life” goon gets all in my wife’s face at an abortion clinic or some bunch of bums try to tell me what book I can or can’t read or what kind of firearm I can and can’t have, well there is going to be some violence going on.

    I am now an official “hate crime” offender.

    Yes I do hate crime.

  51. #51 Matt
    November 13, 2008

    He’s got a point regarding Ramadan. Remember the Muhammed cartoon buisness…most American media didnt reproduce those cartoons out of fear. I didnt notice too many atheists, save Sam Harris, joining Hitchens in condemning the rioting barbarians in Denmark. Our Christians are so much better behaved, we brave atheists love to poke them through their cages knowing they cant get out. Muslims, on the other hand…

  52. #52 Jadehawk
    November 13, 2008

    So from Baptism to excommunication or death, no matter what you do you are a catholic?

    yeah, pretty much. for example, my birth certificate says I’m Roman-Catholic.

    there’s ways to leave voluntarily, too, though (though I suspect that really just amounts to forcing the church to excommunicate you…)

  53. #53 Matt Heath
    November 13, 2008

    So from Baptism to excommunication or death, no matter what you do you are a catholic?

    In the eyes of the catholic church (and most catholics) at least.

    As Dara O’Brien had it

    I don’t believe in God. I’m still a Catholic. I’m pretty sure I could join the Taliban and only be considered a bad Catholic.

  54. #54 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Eric Atkinson,

    Fuck off. Take your stupid, homophobic, violent fantasies and just fuck off. No-one wants you here.

  55. #55 Ka
    November 13, 2008

    # 42:

    So from Baptism to excommunication or death, no matter what you do you are a catholic?

    Strictly speaking, even excommunication doesn’t render you a non-Catholic. It merely means you’re a Catholic who’s been damned to hell.

  56. #56 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    “What should have happened to these jerks is that they had the fuck beat out of them by those fine church going people.”

    Careful Eric
    If you hit one of them, you might catch gay.
    You don’t know how it spreads.
    It’s not like they’re born that way.

  57. #57 tsg
    November 13, 2008

    Catholicism is defined by membership. Once baptised, unless you explicitly reject it, catholicism is for life.

    I once got in an argument with an ex-girlfriend about that. She said that, because I was christened1, I was still Catholic until I formally rejected my Catholicism to a priest2. She honestly couldn’t understand that I didn’t recognize his authority to make me a Catholic in the first place. Why would I need him to unmake me one?

    [1] To appease my grandmother.
    [2] I don’t know if this is really true, but it is what she told me.

  58. #58 Heather
    November 13, 2008

    I love the bus ad idea! DC is a good place to target also since it might possibly get the attention of legislators. In my conservative community, I know people who think overall that atheists are a very tiny number and that they couldn’t possibly know any besides me. They think I’m crazy when I tell them that they probably know others but they just aren’t “out”.

  59. #59 Numad
    November 13, 2008

    “So from Baptism to excommunication or death, no matter what you do you are a catholic?”

    That’s where notions like “lapsed catholic” come in.

  60. #60 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    Bill @ 21

    So non-believers are to just sit in our corner and shut up. I say no. When the “Haven’t heard from you in a while – God” billboard signs come down I’ll think twice about announcing my lack of belief. Until then, you and the other Bill can kiss my atheist ass. I’ll take the ass out of some chaps just for you.

  61. #61 Alex
    November 13, 2008

    @ 36 and 47

    Just for some background, his main job isn’t being a face for the organisation – he says they threw him in because they had so many media requests they didn’t know what to do. So cut him some slack =)

    Also, that’s just how he smiles… he always looks like he’s smirking.

  62. #62 Eric Atkinson
    November 13, 2008

    WOW. Eat shit and vomit.

    I don’t have any fear, dislike, or hate towards homosexuals.

    I just don’t give a fuck about them.

    “Fuck off. Take your stupid, homophobic, violent fantasies and just fuck off. No-one wants you here. ”

    Typical response from Wow.

  63. #63 Matt Heath
    November 13, 2008

    That’s where notions like “lapsed catholic” come in.

    Right in the middle of this phenomenon. You can be a lapsed Baptist; if you stop believing you aren’t one any more. The important thing about lapsed catholics is that they are a type of catholic.

  64. #64 Matt Heath
    November 13, 2008

    er I mean you CAN’T be a lapsed Baptist

  65. #65 raven
    November 13, 2008

    …Auxiliary Bishop Robert Hermann of St. Louis said that “any one of us would consider it a privilege to die tomorrow — to die tomorrow — to bring about the end of abortion.”

    Sounds like a terrorist threat, suicide bomber wannabe. Has anyone notified Homeland Security?

    Something I’ve noticed more and more. The Catholic priests are getting dumber and crazier.

    It’s no secret that there is a huge gap between the priests and the members and has been for decades. The vast majority of Catholics smile and nod and then do whatever they think is right for them. The Catholic birth rate is identical to the national average, for example.

    No one these days wants to be a lifelong celibate, something that isn’t required by the bible. So they recruit the mentally slow and fruitbat crazy and wonder why no one takes them seriously anymore.

  66. #66 Rey Fox
    November 13, 2008

    Meh, that wasn’t an explosion. That was just the usual Donohue bleat-fest. The guy probably gets just as worked up when he runs out of Cheerios. He didn’t even talk over the other guy. Call me when, say, Christopher Hitchens successfully goads Donohue into a coronary on the air, then I’d be interested in watching.

    “So what’s the agenda? to piss off the christians, get their faces on TV and promote their stupid webiste.”

    Sounds fine to me. It’s certainly no higher a purpose than most vocal Christian organizations in the USA. In the meantime, it might get some people thinking about why they need all that churchy folderol that they most likely find dreadfully boring and obligatory.

    Eric:
    “I am now an official “hate crime” offender.”

    No, you’re just an idiot with violent fantasies. Nothing we didn’t already know.

  67. #67 Matt
    November 13, 2008

    Bill Donohue has to be a blowhard. He realizes he and his religion are losing their ‘flock’, and the man is desperate. And boy does it show. He’s resorted to only using scare tactics, bald-faced lies, and fear-mongering in order to re-corral the sheep.

    Prediction: within a years’ time Bill DOnohue will be caught in a gay bar or hooking up privately (ala Haggard style). The man simply doth protest too much.

  68. #68 Elli
    November 13, 2008

    We pick on “christian” Christmas because its shoved at us from 50 different directions. We have to give to charity because Jesus did, we have to remember the *true spirit* of the holidays, we have to be good (because they’re not good the rest of the year?) because its near Christmas. None of my muslim friends tell me I shouldn’t eat in the middle of the day during ramadan, or honestly even mention it at all. They don’t try to convert me, and they never tell me I’m going to hell.

  69. #69 Capital Dan
    November 13, 2008

    Eric Atkinson | November 13, 2008 4:59 PM

    Gay terrorists stormed a church.

    Do you mean Butt Pirates?

    Is there ever a point in time where you stop being a gibbering simp, Eric?

    Donohue clearly needs serious help. The man is fostering fear and hatred. Inevitably, some dumb fucking Catholic is going to pick up the message Bill Donohue is spouting, and innocent people are going to get hurt. Donohue is a scared, small-minded bigot preaching hate and inspiring violence.

  70. #70 Numad
    November 13, 2008

    “The important thing about lapsed catholics is that they are a type of catholic.”

    It says so right in the name. I know.

  71. #71 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Eric Atkinson,

    You use the term ‘butt pirate’. And then suggested ‘What should have happened to these jerks is that they had the fuck beat out of them by those fine church going people.’

    Hateful expression to describe gays + hopes for violence against them = homophobia, shit-for-brains.

    typical response from Wow

    Yes another claim made without evidence. Care to back that up with some examples of other posts I’ve made along similar lines?

    I’m generally against banning people but in your case you’ve gone from boring to irritating with your non-sequitir libertarian nonsense; you’ve now achieved nauseating obnoxiousness with your violent homophobia.

    Fuck off and die, you clueless neanderthal. Start counting down the minutes ’til PZ bans you, fuckstain.

  72. #72 Inoculated Mind
    November 13, 2008

    That ad and this video make me want to believe in Santa Claus! I was very impressed with how their nonbelieving guest conducted himself, and clearly showed himself to be more comfortable and amiable than the counter-guest. The journalist was probably not aware that saying that the ad is “Throwing their belief in their faces” was a revealingly biased question, however in the remainder of the interview she conducted herself well. Gay terrorists? Huh boy. Billy Boy really needs to get back on his Alprazolam before he vomits out his cerebellum. It’s all he’s got left.

    Good press, indeed.

  73. #73 MikeM
    November 13, 2008

    Wow, I was baptised in a Catholic church, and had my first communion, and went to confirmation school for a while… And because I haven’t called it in to HQ, I’m still a Catholic?

    I doubt they even know I’m alive, let alone where I live. I get the feeling they’re just making numbers up about their numbers. Gee, ya think?

    By the way, I am really surprised PZ hasn’t said a thing about the Scott Eckern deal…

  74. #74 GregW
    November 13, 2008

    I abused my Rammadan once and had to go to the doctor for an ointment. It’s much better now :-)

  75. #75 Zac
    November 13, 2008

    Donohue:
    “They always choose Christmas, don’t they?”

    It’s November Bill! You can’t hog two months in the year as a safety-zone against other opinions!

  76. #76 The Hogfather
    November 13, 2008

    I told you gays it was only a matter of time before this guy said something else stupid. Why does he feel compelled to shout all the time? Come to think about it- it is he and not the secularists who remind me of Hitler.

  77. #77 Annick
    November 13, 2008

    No god to believe in includes the god of Ramada Ramadan

  78. #78 Eric Atkinson
    November 13, 2008

    Dan. You will not get any argument from me that Donohue is a small-minded bigot. But he didn’t storm a gay bar and start preaching.

    Gays seem to think their “victim status” get them a free pass on what ever behavior they exalt.

    Remember, the best way to have a conversatin with another person it to first insult them.

  79. #79 The Hogfather
    November 13, 2008

    Wow! I’m gunning for king of the unfortunate typos- “gays” in my last post was supposed to read “guys”. LOL.

  80. #80 seamaiden75
    November 13, 2008

    Ahahahahahahaha –
    The ads are targeted and a non-existent audience and they know that. So what’s the agenda? to piss off the christians, get their faces on TV and promote their stupid webiste.
    Ok first off what’s wrong with that? Do you have some kind of problem with us making ourselves known and daring to speak out. If it was another religion putting a sign on a bus there probably would’ve been barely a mention of it. Oh and by the way the agenda is to let people know that atheist and agnostics are not the evil immoral people that we are portrayed to be were you not paying attention?

    The AHA could have given that money to the red cross so they could have saved some human lives.

    AHA-Humanist Organization
    Red Cross- Disaster & Relief Organization
    Do you see the difference! Why don’t all the churches sell their property and give that money to the red cross. Think of all the lives that money would save! But no they continue to line their pockets while our government gives them a hand out through faith based iniatives.

    Maybe the christians should respond with an ad that says “Do you need to be a humanist to be a humanitarian?”…

    It’s their right to do that. So what.

  81. #81 Toph
    November 13, 2008

    “Sociology 101 says that morality has always been grounded in religion!”
    Sociology major here… I guess I missed that day.

  82. #82 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Take it easy on Eric Wow. You have to read between the lines of his posts.

    He just wants to be told he’s pretty enough.
    Preferably while you tickle his tank hole.
    Is that it Eric?
    He doesn’t want to beat gays, he just wants to be close enough to take in their salty, musky scent. Maybe nuzzle them a little.
    It’s O.K. Eric, you can admit it.

  83. #83 spgreenlaw
    November 13, 2008

    Eric is now threatening homosexuals with violence, and referring to them as butt pirates. I think that alone should be enough to get him banned. At least we won’t be subjected to his libertarian nonsense anymore.

  84. #84 Eric Atkinson
    November 13, 2008

    “Fuck off and die, you clueless neanderthal. Start counting down the minutes ’til PZ bans you, fuckstain. ”

    Why don’t you go see if you can buy you a life.

    I might chip in a few coins.

  85. #85 Jadehawk
    November 13, 2008

    Donohue:
    “They always choose Christmas, don’t they?”

    It’s November Bill! You can’t hog two months in the year as a safety-zone against other opinions!

    well, to be fair, there IS a Santa on that ad…

    and I just realized that it might be easier to get out of the Catholic Church officially in Germany than in other places… you simply declare that you won’t be giving them money anymore (Kirchenaustrittsgesetz). And you can either stay a non-member of anything, or you can switch to an atheist/humanist organization instead… either way, you leave the church permanently

    that’s however a negligible bright side to the damn church-tax

  86. #86 BlueIndependent
    November 13, 2008

    “Maybe the christians should respond with an ad that says “Do you need to be a humanist to be a humanitarian?”…

    To which the AHA simply asks: “must you be religious to be charitable?” The obvious answer is no, and so what if AHA is promoting themselves. Religious groups do it ALL THE TIME. It’s really quite rare that I can drive through a city and NOT see at least one massive billboard promoting some church, demagoging the abortion issue, or telling me Jesus saves. I get this stuff in my mail, in my front door jamb, under my windshield wipers, in my workplace, in my email…I even get it on highways traveling between metropolitan areas. AHA is doing nothing more than using the same tactics. How that’s not obvious I don’t quite know.

  87. #87 WRMartin
    November 13, 2008

    raven @ #65

    Something I’ve noticed more and more. The Catholic priests are getting dumber and crazier.

    Are we sure the priests have changed or are they simply opening their mouths more often?

    they recruit the mentally slow and fruitbat crazy

    You’ve noticed that too? DYW disagrees with me and that’s why I vent here instead of at home.

    To everyone here (sadly, including Pete (ruining masturbation for everyone with his depraved fantasy sex scenes) Rooke) for your patience and understanding.

    Be Good For Goodness’ Sake God Damn It Or Else.

  88. #88 Bostonian
    November 13, 2008

    Stupid Internet poll alert: AOL is reporting on this and a poll asks for a thumbs up or a thumbs down on the ad campaign that’s making Donohue’s head explode in this clip. Vote thumbs up here:

    http://news.aol.com/article/holiday-ads-ask-why-believe-in-a-god/245127

  89. #89 Nibien
    November 13, 2008

    I’m honestly curious, is there one regular poster here that things Eric is a good person, in any way?

  90. #90 Nibien
    November 13, 2008

    Ugh, thinks, not things.

  91. #91 seamaiden75
    November 13, 2008

    I think Bill secretly yearns for some gay lovin just like Ted Haggard. That’s why he screams so loudly to cover up the fact that he really wants it!!!

  92. #92 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Why don’t you go see if you can buy you a life.

    Coming from a libertarian homophobe? The irony, as they say, is delicious.

    Tick-tock, Eric, Tick-tock.

  93. #93 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    I’d like to agree with you Wowbagger…but Eric Asshole isn’t worth the second chastisement it would get me.

    So, fuck off Eric, you asshole.
    (3)

  94. #94 Eric Atkinson
    November 13, 2008

    Spgreenlaw. Can you read?

    Where the fuck did I threaten gays with violence?

    Acting stupid or are you fool enough think just becaues you say sme shit it becomes fact.

  95. #95 tsg
    November 13, 2008

    well, to be fair, there IS a Santa on that ad…

    Nope. Just snowflakes.

  96. #96 Wayne Robinson
    November 13, 2008

    Bill Comment #21
    “I think Donahue is correct, there is an agenda here. I just think the money could have been spent in much better ways. Again the people who are stupid enough to think that you can’t be good if you don’t believe in God are probably the ones who beleive in God. The ads are targeted and a non-existent audience and they know that. So what’s the agenda? to piss off the christians, get their faces on TV and promote their stupid webiste. The AHA could have given that money to the red cross so they could have saved some human lives. Maybe the christians should respond with an ad that says “Do you need to be a humanist to be a humanitarian?”…”
    Yes, that is precisely why I do enjoy this, because it does piss off the Christians.
    $40,000 in my opinion is nothing, and money well spent. How far would $40,000 actually go to save human life? Many years ago, a journalist in a local paper wrote an article about how much dog owners spend each month on their pets, and about how much good this money could do spent in other ways, and suggested that sponsoring a child through World Vision (a Christian charity) would cost the same amount. I did the obvious thing, and immediately became a donor (apparently that wasn’t the obvious thing to do, because the comments that were made on-line were so filled with spite and venom, that it surprised me). And yes, I also donate to the Red Cross, Amnesty and Mediciens Sans Frontieres.

  97. #97 MattF
    November 13, 2008

    ggab # 38

    Put some assless chaps on him and start the parade!

    Ummm..All chaps are assless – otherwise they’d be pants

  98. #98 JSug
    November 13, 2008

    Wow. That is one angry, angry man. He comes right out of the gate calling the poor kid “militant” and “aggressive” for saying that you don’t need to believe in God to be a good person. Then he goes on to beat up on a bunch of straw men that have nothing to do with the discussion. Jeffrey Dahmer? Really? REALLY?!?

  99. #99 Jadehawk
    November 13, 2008

    Nope. Just snowflakes.

    look at the video. at 0:20 there is a picture of one of the ads. it has a santa on it. i guess they have different designs for inside and outside of the bus.

  100. #100 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Spgreenlaw
    Eric’s right. He didn’t say that he would beat the gays, he said that others should have.
    He doesn’t have masochistic gay fantasies.
    He has voyeuristic, masochistic gay fantasies.
    Eric, you are a nasty little bitch. Bad girl.

  101. #101 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    Aw thanks GregW – there went my tea through my nose!

  102. #102 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Eric Atkinson,

    The fact that these guys were gay does not mitigate the fact they disrupted someone else’s religious service. What should have happened to these jerks is that they had the fuck beat out of them by those fine church going people.

    To paraphrase: ‘I wish some fine church-going people had beaten the fuck out those gay guys.’

    Violent homophobia 101.

  103. #103 Matt Heath
    November 13, 2008

    I think he mixed up Sociology and Scientology. I’m pretty sure Scientology teaches that you should use (their) religion as the source of morality.

  104. #104 Calladus
    November 13, 2008

    That’s Bill Donahue? This is the first time I’ve ever seen what he looks like.

    He looks like he’s over 50. Isn’t it about time he moved out of his mother’s basement?

  105. #105 spgreenlaw
    November 13, 2008

    Dear lord, it looks like our beloved Mr. Atkinson has gone as red in the face with rage as Bill Donahue did in that interview.

    What should have happened to these jerks is that they had the fuck beat out of them by those fine church going people.

    well there is going to be some violence going on.

    I am now an official “hate crime” offender.

    Yes I do hate crime.

    Seems like threats of violence to me.

  106. #106 Eric Atkinson
    November 13, 2008

    I said they should have be beten for what they did, not because of their sexual orientation.

    Reading is fundamental.

  107. #107 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    @ 83 and others

    Libertarians or libertarians are not inherently homophobic. Just because that guy bashes gays is no reason for you to bash libertarians in general. As a libertarian who voted against Prop 8, I take offense.

  108. #108 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Post #100 should have read sadistic I think.
    Although I think Eric likes it both ways, don’t you babe.

  109. #109 Eric Atkinson
    November 13, 2008

    Spgreenlaw. Are you really that stupid or are you making some political statement?

  110. #110 firemancarl
    November 13, 2008

    Gay Terrorists???

    Man, I laughed so hard, my drink almost came out my nose! Yes, much to the chagrin of the church goers, the gay terrorists stormed the church and chatsised the congregation for wearing outdated suits and dresses. Witnesses tols of hearing their war cry “Your wearing that with that hand bag?!!!

  111. #111 spgreenlaw
    November 13, 2008

    fatherdaddy @107,

    I bash libertarians for their stupid ideas and the damage those stupid ideas do worldwide. Eric’s homophobia is only important when it comes time to insult him.

  112. #112 Reed
    November 13, 2008

    So, it’s OK for Christians to go door to door, pass out tracts in public places, buy billboards all across the country, put a bible in every hotel and hospital, spend hundreds of millions going all over the world on missions to convert there poorest and least educated… but atheists buying ad space on a bus is some gross offense ? An attack on morality ? Inviting comparison to Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot ?

    Thank you Bill, for once again demonstrating the utter hypocrisy of your kind. You are one of the best arguments our side has. Keep up the good work.

  113. #113 Nick Gotts
    November 13, 2008

    Did I really see what I think I did? Eric Atkinson calling gays “Butt Pirates”, then saying he’s not homophobic? Is it the bigotry or the stupidity that’s more revolting? Good grief, but that man stinks the place out.

  114. #114 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    Oh, I’m sorry spgreenlaw. I didn’t realize you were an asshole, too.

  115. #115 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Fatherdaddy,

    I don’t believe anyone suggesting libertarianism went hand-in-hand with homophobia. The liberatarianism (in general) I can cope with. That Eric, a so-called libertarian, can’t seem to apply the underlying principles of his worldview to human sexuality is indicative of some serious issues, probably involving repression of naughty thoughts.

    Unfortunately (for us) Eric likes to derail threads with his inane comments on the topic, even when it’s unrelated. When you add his newly-revealed violent homophobia to that mix it becomes more than just a little unpalatable.

  116. #116 Big City
    November 13, 2008

    HAHAHAHA! That poor, pig-looking bastard!

  117. #117 Brownian, OM
    November 13, 2008

    Gays seem to think their “victim status” get them a free pass on what ever behavior they exalt.

    That’s right; every goddamn one of ‘em thinks that way.

    For the record, I’m not a homophobe either, just like Eric.

  118. #118 firemancarl
    November 13, 2008

    Meh, Eric is all bent outta shape by the gay terrorists. From what he writes, it looks like he has some type of gay S & M fantasy. That’s OK dude, a lot of us have gay fantasies. All mine just happen to revolve around bunch lipstick lesbians. Oh, and a pizza.

  119. #119 spgreenlaw
    November 13, 2008

    Eric,

    Please, enlighten me as to what I did that was stupid? Your use of slurs combined with your fantasizing over, and promise of, violence seem to be legitimate grounds for banning. Am I mistaken?

    As for any political point I may have, I suppose even you have been able to infer that I think your political and economic values are a twisted mixture of dangerous and silly. That’s not particularly important in this discussion, though.

  120. #120 Shannon
    November 13, 2008

    Ok, so I suppose I should say something here for those Catholics who don’t always agree with Mr. Donahue. The “problem” with living in our great FREE country is that it’s just that, FREE. That group paid their money to put those ads on that bus, and while I don’t agree with it, it’s their right to do it. Bill tends to get a little worked up sometimes, and it’s a shame that he’s been put as the “face” of Catholicism in America. And I don’t remember who asked this, but Baptism is where one is incorporated into the Church. We do hold on to the once in alway in rule, but whether or not you participate is up to you entirely.

  121. #121 Eric Atkinson
    November 13, 2008

    “lthough I think Eric likes it both ways, don’t you babe.”

    No

    All men are ugly.

    Some women are not.

    And the fact that I don’t take it in the ass and have no desire to do so doesn’t make mee fearfull of those that do.

    Nor does it make me want to extend them any special status in the world.

  122. #122 WRMartin
    November 13, 2008

    Eric Atkinson @ #94

    Where the fuck did I threaten gays with violence?

    Possibly at #50 with this ditty:

    What should have happened to these jerks is that they had the fuck beat out of them by those fine church going people.

    Or is that a post made by someone using your name?
    If it was someone else then that was uncool and uncalled for. If it was you then maybe that’s what spgreenlaw was referring to. If your intent was to say something along the lines of “What should have happened to these jerks is that they had seen the congregation turn the other cheek and do what Jesus fucking told them to do.” Then that’s what you should have typed.

  123. #123 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Eric
    That’s just what Ted Haggard used to say.

  124. #124 Sven DiMilo
    November 13, 2008

    Jeez, people, I have Eric A killfiled (longtime!) so I don’t have to read his crap. I recommend this practice. But if you insist on reading his crap, may I request, please, that you refrain from quoting it? If you quote it, see, I end up reading it, which I am trying to avoid. Thanks in advance!

  125. #125 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Eric Atkinson wrote:

    And the fact that I don’t take it in the ass and have no desire to do so doesn’t make mee fearfull of those that do.

    Made you feel all tingly just to write that, didn’t it?

  126. #126 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    Wowbagger,
    I may have misread it, but, it seems some people commenting on this thread can’t seperate the rantings of a homophobe and his supposed political leanings. I personally don’t understand how someone who has been described as a libertarian could not believe in everyones right to live the life they choose. That being said, there are plenty of others willing to equate libertarian thought with discrimination and injustice. That is what I am bitching about.

  127. #127 Sven DiMilo
    November 13, 2008

    gah! again with the quoting!

  128. #128 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Sorry Sven, I’m having fun poking Eric with a sharp stick.

    Eric
    Are you wondering how long and hard my “stick” is?

  129. #129 John Morales
    November 13, 2008

    Matt @37,

    [BDC]Are moderate Catholics even Catholics?
    Yeah, they are. It’s not like most kinds of protestantism where belief is the defining factor. Catholicism is defined by membership. Once baptised, unless you explicitly reject it, catholicism is for life.

    They are, but they’re technically heretics, according to the Catechism(2088,2089):
    “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”
    Technically, I’m an apostate – and very glad the Church no longer has temporal legal authority.

  130. #130 spgreenlaw
    November 13, 2008

    Glad I could set you straight, fatherdaddy. We can argue politics some other day. Thank you for voting against Prop 8, at least.

  131. #131 Ian
    November 13, 2008

    I think people like Donohue really, honestly feel victimized.

    Can you blame them? Suppose you felt obligated (on pain of torture) to spend your life looking at a black wall and *believing* it was flourescent pink. You’d get pretty annoyed at passers-by telling you it was black, wouldn’t you?

    And yes, well put, he doth indeed protest too much.
    Maybe PZ can organize a PayPal-based pool: predict the year of “outing” of your favourite evangelical? :)

    @51: That they’re “in cages” doesn’t speak to their credit. A cat declawed is no less a predator. Anyway, I don’t see how it’s a cheap shot at Christianity to timidly suggest that atheists actually exist, and that it might even be respectable to be one.

  132. #132 Longtime Lurker
    November 13, 2008

    Heh, I abuse Ramadan all the time, what with eating bacon and guzzling beer during daylight hours.

    Funny how, just like Scott from Oregon with his racial slur (“towelheads”), Eric Hussein Atkinson lets fly with a homophobic slur (“Butt Pirates”- are they a FSM schismatic church?).

    Gotta love it when the trolls let the mask slip.

    By the way, do gay terrorists wear rainbow balaclavas?

  133. #133 Brownian, OM
    November 13, 2008

    Shannon, you don’t agree with the sentiment of doing good for goodness’ sake?

    I’m sorry, but I’m wondering wherein lies your disagreement with Billy.

  134. #134 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Sven,

    Not everyone has the option of the killfile so some of us are stuck with Eric – though not for very much longer, I hope; PZ, AFAIK, takes violent homophobia pretty seriously.

    Eric needs his hate thrown back in his face – just like a puppy being trained. Sorry that you’re getting sprayed with troll-spatter.

  135. #135 spgreenlaw
    November 13, 2008

    fatherdaddy,

    To clarify, I do not think those who subscribe to libertarian ideas are across the board homophobic, or even more prone to homophobia than other political identities. I do think that your economic policies (deregulation, et al) are extremely dangerous, and your convictions about the free market are ahistorical and fanciful.

  136. #136 Sven DiMilo
    November 13, 2008

    do gay terrorists wear rainbow balaclavas?

    Nope. Pink.

    (apparently that’s really them)

  137. #137 Benjamin Franklin
    November 13, 2008

    Donohue wept.

  138. #138 Irene Delse
    November 13, 2008

    So from Baptism to excommunication or death, no matter what you do you are a catholic?

    One can still apostasy, i.e. formally renounce the catholic faith, and ask to be excommunicated. It helps if you know the day and place of your baptism (especially, in which church). Then, you write to the relevant episcopal authority and ask your name to be taken off the parish register. It can take time, but if you are firm in your renunciation, they have to recognize you as an apostate and not a member of the Church anymore.

  139. #139 Shannon
    November 13, 2008

    I do believe in doing good for the sake of doing good, as anyone should. I don’t agree with Bill in that he gets all worked up about this when this group has just as much right to buy ad space on a bus as anyone else.

  140. #140 Eric Atkinson
    November 13, 2008

    Well you shit for brains may get you wish.

    “I hope; PZ, AFAIK, takes violent homophobia pretty seriously.”

    I bet Dr Myers can read somewhat better that you goons.

  141. #141 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    spgreenlaw,
    You don’t have to thank me. It was my duty as a libertarian minded voter to denounce gay bashing (with the No On 8 sign that went up as most of the Yes On 8 signs went down (I hope they started feeling stupid)). I hope the political discussions remain civil. I gave up on Skepchick because the hatred of my kind was overwhelming. I don’t want to avoid Pharyngula, too.

  142. #142 Sven DiMilo
    November 13, 2008

    Sorry that you’re getting sprayed with troll-spatter.

    Aw, it’s OK. I agree that the guy seems like ripe ban-bait. He adds nothing, ever, to any discussion, and often (as here) derails them substantially.

  143. #143 Cowcakes
    November 13, 2008

    Bill Donohue’s paranoid response reminds me of a child that has just been caught masturbating. He’s shocked and embarrassed at being exposed and comes up with a fantastical tale to try and explain his way out of it, despite the fact that nobody really cares because everyone does it.

  144. #144 Shannon
    November 13, 2008

    I do believe in doing good for the sake of doing good, as anyone should. I don’t agree with Bill in that he gets all worked up about this when this group has just as much right to buy ad space on a bus as anyone else.
    And just so you know, I would feel very upset if a group of anyone stormed into my mass on a Sunday morning, but I don’t think that beating them senseless would make any difference. It would probably just promote more stormings and more beatings and no matter what, nothing gets solved.

  145. #145 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Fatherdaddy wrote:

    I personally don’t understand how someone who has been described as a libertarian could not believe in everyones right to live the life they choose.

    There’s a lot we don’t understand about Eric Atkinson, but he hadn’t revealed his violent homophobia before. It makes me wonder if he’s a libertarian at all; perhaps he’s just a troll spouting the maxims for the sake of irritating people. Which he’s been doing for a while now.

  146. #146 tsg
    November 13, 2008

    One can still apostasy, i.e. formally renounce the catholic faith, and ask to be excommunicated. It helps if you know the day and place of your baptism (especially, in which church). Then, you write to the relevant episcopal authority and ask your name to be taken off the parish register. It can take time, but if you are firm in your renunciation, they have to recognize you as an apostate and not a member of the Church anymore.

    My way’s a bunch easier: “No, I’m not.” Who cares what they think?

  147. #147 Longtime Lurker
    November 13, 2008

    He adds nothing, ever, to any discussion, and often (as here) derails them substantially.

    Even his disavowals of homophobia are replete with it!

    Stupid Hussein Atkinson!

  148. #148 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    Awww, ol’ Bill won’t explode, we Irish are used to a diet of bile and spleen and frothing spittle. What’s a Catholic celt without moral outrage? A corpse.
    Actually you can bet Bill gets a little chubby on every time he gets to bloviate against all the people who hate God, Jesus, the blessed Virgin and crackers… don’t forget about the crackers.

  149. #149 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Eric Atkinson wrote:

    I bet Dr Myers can read somewhat better that you goons.

    Heh heh heh. It took him a while, but he’s there now. Cowering on the floor, sucking up to PZ in the hope he doesn’t get banned. Dance, obsequious little troll!

  150. #150 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    ggab – I’ll see that stick sir, and raise you a shapely ass.

  151. #151 SoMG
    November 13, 2008

    Bill’s face is as read as the head of Santa Claus’ penis.

  152. #152 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Patricia
    I thought you had outraised me, but your “shapely ass” has caused my “stick” to raise yet again.
    All in?

  153. #153 spgreenlaw
    November 13, 2008

    Eric,

    I bet Dr Myers can read somewhat better that you goons.

    For all your exclamations about the illiteracy of those who disagree with you/call you out on your hate spewing, you seem to have trouble putting together a sentence. The insult loses power when you deliver it so ineptly.

  154. #154 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    #150
    Suddenly this thread spiraled into surreality – erotic surreality.

  155. #155 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Patricia wrote:

    ggab – I’ll see that stick sir, and raise you a shapely ass.

    You breed donkeys as well as poultry?

  156. #156 Feynmaniac
    November 13, 2008

    Eric ” the self loathing closeted homosexual” Atkinson said,

    What should have happened to these jerks is that they had the fuck beat out of them by those fine church going people.

    He also uses the term “Butt Pirates”.

    At least Rooke’s fantasies were well-meaning, unintentionally creepy and funny. Honestly, this guy is a complete moron. I say send him in the dungeon where he can become a better troll’s bitch.

  157. #157 Angel Kaida
    November 13, 2008

    I am new here and have had trouble figuring out how to use killfile. Up to today this hadn’t been a problem, but this Eric Atkinson character is really just revolting. I use public computers, on which I can’t install programs; aside from scrolling really fast or hoping for PZ to take action against him, is there any way to avoid seeing his posts?

  158. #158 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    All in? No. I have a couple of more cards.

    Er…no Wowbagger, the hubby isn’t usually called a donkey. Old rooster, yes.

  159. #159 Capital Dan
    November 13, 2008

    PZ’s probably too busy with his dinner of boiled kittens to get around to tossing Eric in the dungeon. I figure he’ll get around to it sometime after his evening smoke in his favorite sealskin chair.

  160. #160 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Wowbagger
    “You breed donkeys as well as poultry?”

    I’d hardly call a mexican donkey show “breeding”.

    I deleted this post three times and then decided that I couldn’t pass up the joke. Sorry if I offend.lol

  161. #161 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    E.V. – Sorry about that! I may need to readjust my slutty meter down some.

  162. #162 Snarla
    November 13, 2008

    At Ramadan the holiday greeting on every Muslim’s lips is (very roughly translated) “May you and yours be well every year.” Not only does it not specify “Happy Ramadan,” but it doesn’t even specify the holiday season. You could even call it inclusive.
    Probably if I dug hard enough I could find a Bill Donohue analog who is livid about the War on Ramadan.

  163. #163 John Morales
    November 13, 2008

    Angel, not really if you’re using public computers.

    PZ recently changed comment format so that the poster shows at the top of the comment; when you scroll/page down, if you find a poster you know will be objectionable, page down without reading to the next bold heading.

  164. #164 raven
    November 13, 2008

    Something I’ve noticed more and more. The Catholic priests are getting dumber and crazier.

    Are we sure the priests have changed or are they simply opening their mouths more often?

    they recruit the mentally slow and fruitbat crazy

    You’ve noticed that too? DYW disagrees with me and that’s why I vent here instead of at home.

    My observation is empirical and anecdotal so who knows if it is correct. I also don’t very often deal with priests although it is above zero (Catholic relatives and so on). I wouldn’t mind some hard statistical data but doubt if there is any publicly available. The RCC has been doing PR and coverup for 2,000 years.

    1. Most of the priests are somewhere between old and very old, there recruitment is lagging the death rate.

    2. Some of the priests I’ve dealt with recently were not the least bit impressive. One was really dumb and didn’t seem very sane either.

    3. A female friend of mine is partly to blame. When she was young, nubile, and cute (very) she went out a few times with….a seminary student in his last few months. Not sure what was going on here, last fling before the yoke or what. He dropped out. For the best, guy was too interested in girls to make a good priest.

  165. #165 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    Mmmm. Boiled kittens go great with pickled aborted fetuses.

    “Stem cell fajitas?”

    “Leave the plate.”

  166. #166 Eric Atkinson
    November 13, 2008

    Angel: I won’t be posting anymore at this site, so you will not see anything to offend your dainty little world view.

    As for the rest of you libtard cocksuckers, eat shit and die.

    I won’t be back.

    Let the party begin.

  167. #167 AmyD
    November 13, 2008

    Um, to ignore for a moment all the ugly hateful things Donahue said..We shouldn’t put Atheist stuff up on buses because its Christmas! WTF?! Even if.. it’s fricken early November on my calendar. Hello! How much time do we have for free speech here?

  168. #168 Alex
    November 13, 2008

    That was waaaaay too funny.

  169. #169 AmyD
    November 13, 2008

    Next it will be the war on Easter! No Atheist messages in March or April or whenever the heck it is.

  170. #170 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    Libtard cocksuckers! I consider it a compliment from a kkkook (not a typo).

  171. #171 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    I won’t be back.
    Let the party begin.

    …And there was much rejoicing! *yay*

  172. #172 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    Oh, right! Bugger off Eric you asshole, just when I was one asshole (now two) ahead of that shameless hussy Janine.

  173. #173 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    He’ll be back.
    He loves us too much to go.

  174. #174 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    Sorry about that! I may need to readjust my slutty meter down some.

    Oh no, don’t do that. I enjoyed it. ; )

  175. #175 Feynmaniac
    November 13, 2008

    Eric Atkinson,

    I won’t be back.
    Let the party begin.

    Sigh….if only. He’ll be back. They always come back.

    Oh well, it was still pretty damn funny.

  176. #176 Levi
    November 13, 2008

    How come pundits in this country always criticize Republican and Democratic policies, but hardly ever challenge the policies of the Yemen Socialist Party? It’s not fair!!!

  177. #177 Cat of Many Faces
    November 13, 2008

    I’m just going to throw in my 2 cents and hop on the wagon requesting that Eric get banned.

    Seriously, you called for violence against gays you dumb fuck. It’s right there for all to read, and you can’t retract it.

    Go away, you evil little jerk.

  178. #178 spgreenlaw
    November 13, 2008

    Have a good trip, Eric. Do forget to write.

  179. #179 Qwerty
    November 13, 2008

    While watching this I found the phrase “a new spin on the war on Chritmas” offensive. Just because you don’t believe in god(s) doesn’t mean you are at war with believers. How ridiculous. Of course, there is nothing like this phrase to rile up idiot believers like Bill Donohue.

    BigDumbChimp – moderate Catholics who don’t buy into all of the church’s doctrine are often deridingly alled “cafeteria Catholics” who pick and choose what to believe.

  180. #180 Ryan F Stello
    November 13, 2008

    I don’t think he remembers that the interviewer is sitting right next to him.

    No need to shout, Bill.

  181. #181 mk
    November 13, 2008

    Jeffrey Dahmer was raised by a Christian family, Bill.

  182. #182 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    Oh, that is it! First gay bashing, then libertarian bashing. Now we have Yemen Socialist Party bashing. I won’t be back. Let the party begin.

  183. #183 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Eric reminds me of my boston terrier Jack.
    No matter what we try, or what the vet suggests, we can’t get him to stop eating shit out in the back yard.
    He just loves eating shit.

  184. #184 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    And it only took the phrase Eric ” the self loathing closeted homosexual” to bruise his tender sensibilities so he could flounce out crying, “I am NOT a homophobe you cocksuckers!”

  185. #185 gma
    November 13, 2008

    I am offended by the nonsense coming out of Bill Donohue.

    I am offended by the stupidity and ignorance of all religions.

    More than what they say, I am offended by what religions do, like amending the constitution to take the rights to marriage away from lesbians and gays.

    I am offended that religions right now at the United Nations are trying to put global blasphemy laws in place.

    I am offended because blasphemy is a victimless crime.

    But, they have a constitutional right to free speech and to offend me.

    We have a constitutional right to do what we believe is right for humanity even if they feel it offends them.

    A sign on a bus that encourages everyone to be good for goodness sake is not imposing our worldview on them. They have the right to believe in anything, now matter how wicked.

    They also do not have the right to impose their view on me but that is something that religions never accept because they have the certainty that they have their god on their side and that everyone needs to be converted to their view.

  186. #186 Nerd of Redhead
    November 13, 2008

    EricA, you were doing a nice job of getting along with us for a few days. Then you overstepped some decency bounds. If you could bring yourself to apologize, no problem. But you can’t back down, so you get chased out due to your own actions. Unlike most breakups, this is you, not us.

  187. #187 Jim Harrison
    November 13, 2008

    Every August 24 I email Bill Donahue to wish him a happy St. Bartholomew’s day. Maybe we could make this a tradition with special Hallmark St. Bartholomew’s Day cards and the exchange of gaily colored candy corpses.

  188. #188 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    Oh, that is it! First gay bashing, then libertarian bashing. Now we have Yemen Socialist Party bashing. I won’t be back. Let the party begin.

    Okay, who’s got the oil and the nipple clamps? Patricia?: P

  189. #189 Joel Grant
    November 13, 2008

    Donohue – what a wanker! How many people actually earn a living as a professional bigot?

  190. #190 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    I wonder if the U.N. will consider it a crime to bash atheists, too. I find it lovely that Big Bad Bill can cry and whine about all the Catholic and other christian bashing(?) and then proced to bash non-believers.

  191. #191 Ryan F Stello
    November 13, 2008

    Eric A frothed,

    As for the rest of you libtard cocksuckers, eat shit and die.

    Heh, I knew that your pretend graciousness on election night would be short-lived.

    Wanna know why people call people like you Rethuglican so much?
    You’re so damn insincere, and insincerely damn everything.

  192. #192 CJO
    November 13, 2008

    Fuck the illiterate redneck moron homophobe. Good riddance.

  193. #193 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    Dogpile!

  194. #194 llewelly
    November 13, 2008

    Eric Atkinson: #166:

    As for the rest of you libtard cocksuckers, eat shit and die.
    I won’t be back.
    Let the party begin.

    Careful. If the door touches your ass on the way out, it’ll make you gay.

  195. #195 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    I guess that’s two early Xmas presents. Hurrah!

  196. #196 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    Careful. If the door touches your ass on the way out, it’ll make you gay.

    Ooops. Too late…

  197. #197 Cuttlefish, OM
    November 13, 2008

    I dunno who Donohue thinks he is fooling
    His Haggard expression is easily read
    He feigns apoplectic, all red-faced and drooling
    But clearly he’s curious–you know, in bed.

    He’s sorta like Eric, a textbook example
    Of passion displaced from its natural goal
    He huffs and he puffs, but the data are ample–
    He wonders what loving is like, on the (w)hole.

    (I’m Cuttlefish, and I disapprove of this message.)

  198. #198 Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker
    November 13, 2008

    Asshole won’t be back? But I so wanted him to explain this.

    Nor does it make me want to extend them any special status in the world.

    The “gay terrorists” were reacting to the Catholic and Mormon church actively working to take away rights. What “special status” is there to GLBT marriage?

    Shameless hussy? Me? I prefer to think of myself as a brazen hussy.

  199. #199 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    Bravo! *wipes tear* Bravo!

  200. #200 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    The Bard Of The Cephalopod @ 197

    I (w)hole heartedly approve of your message.

  201. #201 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Cuttlefish
    Genius!!
    As always.

  202. #202 Moses
    November 13, 2008

    Posted by: Eric Atkinson | November 13, 2008 4:59 PM

    Yes I do hate crime.

    No, you just do pigeon chesting stupid. You won’t do any of those things. You’ll just go meekly. Just like the rest of the Internet tough-talkers.

  203. #203 Rick R
    November 13, 2008

    I have a new game!! Let’s guess what Eric’s S&M safe word is!!

    “Uncle Bill”! “Ahoy, Mateys”!! Or more to the point, “PZ!!!!!!”

    And Eric, a fist only hurts the first time. Them chaps ain’t assless fer nuthin’, babe.

  204. #204 Moses
    November 13, 2008

    Posted by: Eric Atkinson | November 13, 2008 5:29 PM

    Dan. You will not get any argument from me that Donohue is a small-minded bigot. But he didn’t storm a gay bar and start preaching.

    No, he does it on TV when they’re watching. Boorish behavior that is not so different as to excuse one, but attack the other.

  205. #205 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    Huzzah for the Cuttlefish! Bravo!!

  206. #206 Converse02
    November 13, 2008

    I wasn’t going to give to AHA because I already donated to the BHA. But hearing the statements by Donohue, I’ve decided to join AHA. I’m looking forward to my issues of The Humanist.

  207. #207 Cuttlefish, OM
    November 13, 2008

    (non-rhyming serious message)

    The reason I disapprove… to use someone’s homophobia against them does two things; it pokes fun at them, which is great fun… but it legitimizes their bias–it agrees that the thing they hate is hateful.

    It is not, of course. It should not be an insult to call someone gay, or to insinuate that they might be, any more than if I were to mock him by calling him blue-eyed, or left-handed, or tall, short, Lithuanian, or vegetarian. But I legitimized his ignorance. And I do not approve.

  208. #208 AlisonS
    November 13, 2008

    Bill D. certainly has issues with anger management, amongst other things. It might help if he read some history (ie Hitler was Catholic as were most of his henchmen) and a little Soc. 101 and Psych. 101 might be in order too. His ignorance is quite stunning. And that bit about people putting their noses where they don’t belong…. Was he even slightly aware of the the Catholic/Mormon cabal shoving their nasty honkers into the business of gays and women’s control of their own bodies. It is about time that victims of religion starting picketing their tormenters.

  209. #209 spgreenlaw
    November 13, 2008

    (non-rhyming serious message)

    Well said, Cuttlefish. I completely agree.

  210. #210 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    Well, there’s only one thing left to top of this thread. That’s for PZ to come in and call us Rowdies, and spank everyone.

  211. #211 Feynmaniac
    November 13, 2008

    Everyone is saying Eric Atkinson finally crossed the line by saying those gay guys should have been beaten in a church, but personally I think he did that when he started making those Chuck Norris jokes.

  212. #212 'Tis Himself
    November 13, 2008

    I prefer to think of myself as a brazen hussy.

    Wouldn’t you rather be a golden hussy than one made out of brass?

  213. #213 Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker
    November 13, 2008

    YAY! A spanking for everyone!

    What is this? Castle Anthrax?

  214. #214 heliobates
    November 13, 2008

    And the fact that I don’t take it in the ass and have no desire to do so doesn’t make mee fearfull of those that do.

    Longer Eric.

  215. #215 Janine ID AKA The Lone Drinker
    November 13, 2008

    Gold is too rich and refined. Brass has that cheap and shiny bit going for it.

  216. #216 John Morales
    November 13, 2008

    Cuttlefish @207, I think the salutary effects of your mockery of EA’s homophobia >> any harm done by perceived legitimisation thereof.

    I also consider your prose atonement for any misdeed :)

  217. #217 wrpd
    November 13, 2008

    I’ll lend you my nipple clamps and throw in my leather chaps for five bucks. Let the party begin!

  218. #218 DangerAardvark
    November 13, 2008

    How come no one focused on the real point of Eric Atkinson’s post, which was that disrupting people’s private service is not okay? Advocating violence on what was essentially a non-violent act isn’t okay either. But since it’s gays against Christians, the blinders go up on the left and on the right it’s just more proof that Christians are being oppressed. It’s like two different universes.

  219. #219 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    DangerAardvark
    I see your point.
    I intended to research the event and find out what it was all about, but got a little distracted.
    I’ll look into it now.

  220. #220 fatherdaddy
    November 13, 2008

    Oil! Nipple clamps! Leather chaps! I’m back!

  221. #221 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    DangerAardvark,

    That’s why you don’t begin posts with homophobic hate-speech. It undermines any reasonable argument you might be presenting.

    I don’t advocate disruption of anyone’s private services, by any group, no matter who they are and what their complaints might be. That being said, I’ve never had anyone collectively agitate to deprive me of human rights, either. If that happened it might be a little less civilised about how I displayed my displeasure.

    But not to the point of violence.

  222. #222 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    “More proof that Christians are being oppressed”…. right, but the gays, atheists and pagans aren’t.

    Whomever has the gag, strap it onto DangerAardvark please.

  223. #223 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Fatherdaddy
    I’ll bring the chaps!
    My wife complained that they were too big, not realising I got them in my own size.
    Silly girl, chaps are for cowboys.
    Bridle-check
    Riding crop-check
    Spurs-check
    Giddy up y’all.

  224. #224 Paul Johnson
    November 13, 2008

    HEY THATS JESSE!

    i ran soundboard with him in summer theatre, and now he’s debating bill donohue!?

    hell yes!

  225. #225 Capital Dan
    November 13, 2008

    Paul Johnson | November 13, 2008 8:03 PM

    HEY THATS JESSE!

    i ran soundboard with him in summer theatre, and now he’s debating bill donohue!?

    So, what you’re saying is that he’s over qualified to be debating Donohue? Or, was he just sort of slumming?

  226. #226 Rey Fox
    November 13, 2008

    “How come no one focused on the real point of Eric Atkinson’s post, which was that disrupting people’s private service is not okay?”

    Well, probably because that’s fairly obvious, but mostly because of all the violent fantasizing and loaded language he surrounded it with. It’s pretty much symptomatic of his posts here; if he ever makes a decent point, he does it in such a willfully inflammatory way that it gets lost. That would be reason enough to ban him, but I find it so fun to press his (big obvious) buttons that I never really wanted to call for his bannination.

    I think that if he shows up again after making a big stink about leaving forever, then that would be cause for banning.

  227. #227 Paul Johnson
    November 13, 2008

    “So, what you’re saying is that he’s over qualified to be debating Donohue? Or, was he just sort of slumming?”

    well any atheist ought to be over qualified to debate donohue

    i’m surprised that he is such a strong activist. shouldve guessed i suppose.

  228. #228 Paul Johnson
    November 13, 2008

    Hey, PZ should link to that campaign directly.

  229. #229 itwasntme
    November 13, 2008

    I didn’t read all above, and probably nobody will read this:

    Hitler was raised a Catholic.
    Stalin was a Russian Orthodox seminarian for a number of years.

    I know this just off the top of my head. The atheist guy wasn’t the best rep for this appearance, or he would have had this down already.

  230. #230 Annie
    November 13, 2008

    Maybe it should be watch me explode after watching bag o’ shite go off its tiny nut.

    What Dr Steve Novella from SGU points out is so true. It is virtually impossible to debate with a true believer on TV or in a debate forum, as they will just spew out the lengthy completely irrelevant gobshite, take all the interview time doing it, and lean back smugly with a gotcha. Thus throwing out so much bullshit that it’s impossible to even begin to address the issues.

    As usual, the interviewer lets the true believer crap on, then the opposition person gets the “last few seconds” to refute.

    I think young humanist dude was “smirking” because he was clearly nervous. My 7 and 9 year olds do it sometimes. I’ve seen many adults do it as soon as a camera is turned on. I could also see what he was trying to get out, only he was clearly rattled by the mountain of crap thrown at him (by the fucking Frog Prince of Shite),in one breath.

    GHHAAAAAHHHHH! I usually don’t resort to name calling but I just get so bloody angry when I see this nutjob open his mouth.

    It is also really easy to sit in the comfort of the glow of our computers and decide what young humanist dude should have said. Until you’ve had to do it – I wouldn’t really be criticising. (Yes, I have had to do it)

    Sigh – Back to work.

  231. #231 RamblinDude
    November 13, 2008

    Crackers plus abortion!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/obama_catholics

    “COLUMBIA, S.C. – A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him “constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil.”

  232. #232 nanoAl
    November 13, 2008

    To the guy above me:
    I’m pretty sure he knows what religion Hitler and Stalin were. In a four minute news brief one doesn’t have time to argue about details. he got his message across.

    I find it kinda weird that she can say a statistic like 92% of americans believe in god (likely one of the 87% of statistics pulled directly out of the asses of 45% of people) and the Billy can still act as if the 8% of people are a scary bunch of oppressors. Also, aren’t muslims a smaller minority in the states than godless heathens? We’d really look like a bunch of assholes trying to subvert a minority’s religious holiday. I don’t even know when ramadan is.

  233. #233 Annie
    November 13, 2008

    @231

    WTF?!? That’s totally messed up. (shakes head) How very Catholic of him. (The priest that is).

    Whackjob (again, the priest that is)

  234. #234 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    Oil! Nipple clamps! Leather chaps! I’m back!

    Hmmmm, why do I get the feeling fatherdaddy’s a bear?

  235. #235 Mena
    November 13, 2008

    BD wasn’t actually doing an interview, he was just reciting memorized words without thinking. Kind of like he does at Mass.

  236. #236 Annie
    November 13, 2008

    nanoAl @232,

    I thought that 92% was too high as well. Perhaps they could be including Muslims and Jews as well (gasp)? After all, supposedly they all believe in “God”. Just that the three religions all claim that their

    Does the USA have a federally funded census of any kind? Is that where the rectal pull could have come from? We have a regular national census in Australia, with one of the questions asking to identify religion.

    Lies, lies and damned statistics.

  237. #237 Annie
    November 13, 2008

    Whoops, should have read their ‘version of God’ is superior.

  238. #238 aaron
    November 13, 2008

    That spokesperson was pretty disappointing. I can see the urge not to seem condescending or seem too aggressive or scary but he simply wouldn’t challenge Donahue on anything.

    Militant books, Hitler, sociology 101, gay terrorists, Jeffrey Dahmer, atheism bad for society. Donahue spent the whole segment spouting blatant lies and this guy just let them stand. Sure don’t get into a shouting match, but at least point out that Donahue is telling wicked lies about you and your group.

    If someone called me a serial killer cannibalistic NAZI during an interview I don’t think I’d have much trouble making them look the bigoted idiot they are.

  239. #239 Mbee
    November 13, 2008

    Aaron, I think that in the short time available it was good that the spokesperson did not try to rebuff the Hitler etc comments. If all atheists do is play their game and have to try and refute their bogus claims we will get nowhere fast. Better to come off positive about what atheism is and not even acknowledge their now much refuted claims. They’re scared because atheism is being talked about and they’re throwing everything they’ve got and it isn’t that much!

  240. #240 Thy Mighty Overload
    November 13, 2008

    Well, I thought the atheist guy did well. I do think that after some silly sod like Donahugue comes out with the Hitler / Stalin crap the perfect retort / soundbite is simply, “You do know, Bill, that Hitler was a practicing Catholic, don’t you?”

    It makes Bill sound like he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, it completely undermines the charge that atheism = lack of morals, and it is simple and short enough to stick in the human brain.

  241. #241 Alan Kellogg
    November 13, 2008

    It is my observation that most people call out to God with greatest sincerity in the middle of a vigorous fuck.

  242. #242 Joel
    November 13, 2008

    Jesus is the only hope for change in America

    Lynn Montgomery
    Vinton

    Barack Obama’s former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, has received his wish. God has damned America. Why would he continue blessing a people who have turned their backs on him? All of you Christians who helped make this happen need to repent. Satan has blinded you. Wake up. Louis Farrakhan called Obama the Messiah. There is only one Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. The only hope and change for this country are through Jesus, not through Obama. America, you are on a slippery slope to hell. Return to the Lord now while you still have time.

  243. #243 seamaiden75
    November 13, 2008

    PZ’s probably too busy with his dinner of boiled kittens to get around to tossing Eric in the dungeon. I figure he’ll get around to it sometime after his evening smoke in his favorite sealskin chair.

    WHAT!!! ?

  244. #244 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    Thy Mighty Overload, You make a good point. Bill cannot refute the argument that Hitler continued to deal with the catholic church after the war was started.

    Perhaps this young man representing the atheist view was a bit too inexperienced with being confronted with rabid, shouting, idiots like Big Bad Bill. I love it that christians always bring up Hitler. It shows the caliber of their thinking.

  245. #245 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    Joel, #242 – I might be a little concerned if god existed. But he doesn’t, and so I’m not.

  246. #246 seamaiden75
    November 13, 2008

    Joel- Wait! What?

  247. #247 Jeanette
    November 13, 2008

    Okay, I posted a related story on Pharyngula’s “War on Christmas” thread, post # 247, but I don’t want to copy the whole damned thing, so here’s the link:

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/11/oy_its_war_on_christmas_time_a.php#comment-1209109

    So this effort includes three different ad campaigns in the U.S. AND the one in London, all around the same time of year. The messages:

    “There’s probably no god. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.”

    “Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness sake.”

    “Imagine no religion.”

    “Don’t believe in a god? -You are not alone.”

  248. #248 Joel
    November 13, 2008

    It’s an editorial, in my local paper, which I thought you all would enjoy.

  249. #249 E.V.
    November 13, 2008

    #242: (?)
    What is in the air today? Every form of weirdness is out and about. I’ve been slapping down crazies all day. I’m just glad that Courtesan was with me.

    Oh BTW Patricia: Who’s shapely ass were you referring to earlier or are you too modest?

  250. #250 John Morales
    November 13, 2008

    It’s OK, Joel, we’re fully aware of the insipidity of godbots. Whoever wrote that editorial presubably considers non-Christian nations are hell on earth.

    Unlike with intelligence, there’s no lower bounds to stupidity.

  251. #251 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    E.V. ah, I’ll not allow Janine to out brazen me, the hussy.
    Twas my own shapely derriere I was referring to. But since the gentleman only had one thing to raise, I demurred calling him again. I’ve seen that trick before.

  252. #252 BobC
    November 13, 2008

    I couldn’t stand listening to all of Bill Donohue’s babbling. Did he provide any evidence for his magic fairy?

    These atheists ads are wonderful. We need them in Florida.

    Very off topic but important: Navy 1, Whales 0: Supreme Court Allows Navy’s Sonar Exercises

    The Supreme Court has ruled that the US Navy can wipe out all the whales it wants to so they can use high-power sonar off the coast of California. I plan to contact Commander-in-Chief Obama to ask him to order the Navy to leave whales and dolphins alone. I hope many readers of this blog do the same. One of the many reasons I voted for President Obama was to protect endangered species, so I hope he doesn’t let me down.

  253. #253 ggab
    November 13, 2008

    Did Patricia just call me a gentleman?
    Wow it’s like a fresh start.
    I could lead a whole new life.
    I believe I can do it. I CAN be a gentleman.

    Nah, where’s the fun in that.
    One of you asshats pass me a damn beer.

  254. #254 raven
    November 13, 2008

    “COLUMBIA, S.C. – A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him “constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil.”

    Told you (posts way above in thread), that the Catholic church has trouble getting priests that aren’t braindead or crazy. That celibacy thing is a big part of it. Really, who wants a lifetime of that?

    Problem with making voting for a candidate for president part of a religion. People who don’t agree are likely to vote for who they want anyway and find another denomination that doesn’t trample all over their life. I really doubt if there is anything in the bible that says thou shalt not vote Democratic.

    I also doubt that this is official RCC policy. If they threw out everyone who used birth control and voted blue, they would lose 90% of their members. No members=no money=no religion.

  255. #255 Your Mighty Overload
    November 13, 2008

    Patrica,

    Yeah, the “Hitler defense” by Christians is definitely one which would have got me not so very long ago – it takes a bit of experience to nail people on it.

    I think Randy Olson is bang on the money when he says that we often market ourselves badly. One of my former karate instructors has a similar mantra, that we rarely lose a competition due to the superior skill of our opponent, more normally we lose because we throw it away ourselves. In this case, we won because the spokesman remained cool and calm, while silly Billy got all worked up – it makes us seem rational – but we lost in that we didn’t refute Bill’s nonsense emphatically enough.

    Rationalists as a group tend to want to explain things in a technical way, because the world is complicated, but we need to develop simple, effective and memorable take-down techniques (memes) which will immediately assert themselves in the brains of both non-believers, and more importantly believers, whenever they hear “Hitler / Stalin” or “Thermodynamics” or any other of the Hobgoblin brigade’s lies.

    You know when you get a song stuck in your head for hours, and can’t get it out? That’s the effect our rhetoric should have when faced with people like Bill D.

  256. #256 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    Oh now ggab, don’t sell your naughty ol’ self short.

    So long as you subscribe to the credo of ladies first, in situations, that shall we say, count. You are a gentleman.
    *smiles innocently*

  257. #257 John Morales
    November 13, 2008

    Raven @254,

    I also doubt that this is official RCC policy.

    Well, it is, but they don’t put it quite so directly. The Church is well-versed at sophistry.

    For example:

    Can we allow access to Eucharistic communion to those who deny the human and Christian principles and values? The responsibility of the politicians and legislators is great. So called personal option cannot be separated from the socio-political duty. It is not a “private” problem, the acceptance of the Gospel, of the Magisterium and of right reasoning are needed! [...] Politicians and legislators must know that, by proposing or defending projects for iniquitous laws, they have a serious responsibility for, and must find a remedy to the evil done and spread, to be allowed access to communion with the Lord who is the way, truth and life (cf. Jn 14:6).

  258. #258 Sioux Laris
    November 13, 2008

    (WARNING: humor possibly considered sick follows)

    Being an atheist and therefore without morality or conscience, I suggest that medical experiments, up to and finally including vivisection, be performed upon Donohue “for the Greater Good” in order to determine why he doesn’t suffer a stroke every time he hears the word “atheist” or have a heart attack at the expression “gay marriage” – it is a marvelous mystery to me.
    It also would serve some purpose, unlike the death by stoning, burning at the stake, drawing-and-quartering, or crucifiction he would so obviously love to deal out to any who refused to kneel before his faith even after torture.

    BD is certainly a top candidate, in what is a very crowded field, for the world’s most ridiculous blowhard ass-and-asshole.

  259. #259 John Morales
    November 13, 2008

    Um, in my previous I lost some context when editing for brevity (a difficult task given the verbiage).
    The source was the “XI ORDINARY GENERAL ASSEMBLY
    OF THE SYNOD OF BISHOPS-2-23 October 2005″.
    This is the immediately preceding paragraph to the above quote:

    Worse yet, when dealing with “couples” of the same sex, something unknown in the cultural histories of people and in law, even if not presented as “matrimony”.
    Presenting this juridical lie as a “marriage” and to have the pretense of adopting children is certainly even more destructive. This whole tendency, which could invade many nations, is clearly contrary to Divine law, to God’s commandments and is a negation of natural law. Social fabric is wounded in a lethal way. A disastrous influx on laws and on the truth concerning man follows, who no longer comprehends the “transcendent” character of his “existence as man” and is lowered to being an instrument and an object in the different attempts against life, starting from the abominable crime of abortion.

  260. #260 GuyIncognito
    November 13, 2008

    One word, Billy Boy: “Ratlines”.

  261. #261 Wowbagger
    November 13, 2008

    clearly contrary to Divine law, to God’s commandments and is a negation of natural law.

    I’m not much of a bible scholar, but I’m wondering when it is the Jewish society went from being okay with polygamy to monogamy only. Is is mentioned in the bible? Did their god make some sort of proclamation?

  262. #262 BlackBart
    November 13, 2008

    Wow, I’ve never seen so much Bay Bashing projection going on before. Way to twist someones words. I suggest you deal with your own issues about gays before projecting your self loathing hatred upon someone else.

  263. #263 Patricia
    November 13, 2008

    Mighty Over Lord, I agree, and this is one reason that atheists need to educate themselves in the christians arguments.

    My husband was stationed in Germany during the Vietnam war, and he was at the Nazi concentration camp at Frankfort – 21st replacement center – the ovens were still there.

    Your instructor was right. Know your opponent.

  264. #264 Andrew JS
    November 14, 2008

    It looks like Donahue’s been taking classes at the Bill O’Reilly debating school.. with extra yelling lessons.

  265. #265 GeoffI
    November 14, 2008

    I liked the atheist guy. He might not have jumped all over Dunnohue’s silly arguments but I think he sold the atheist=good thing rather well. Also, he’s a model of patience and virtue far beyond what I would have done in that situation. To give him the benefit of the doubt, it’s possible they cut off his mike to let Dunnohue speak. To the uninitiated anyway, he came off pretty well and I think he won the day. Think of it as a ‘war win’ less than a ‘battle win.’

    Maybe both. ;)

  266. #266 John Morales
    November 14, 2008

    Wowbagger @261, I don’t know either, but this could be a start.

  267. #267 John Morales
    November 14, 2008

    BlackBart @262, your comment lacks any context. Who do you address, and on what basis?

  268. #268 Wowbagger
    November 14, 2008

    John Morales, #266

    Thanks for that. I found the article on European marriage practices, and found – funnily enough – that church-overseen monogamy is only a very recent thing. So between the two it shows that god is either in favour of polygamy (since that’s all through the OT) or he doesn’t give a rat’s ass either way.

    Therefore, all contemporary god-blatherers like Donohue et al. are spouting nonsense with not only a lack of historical support but sans scriptural precedent as well.

  269. #269 black wolf
    November 14, 2008

    The problem with the routine lie-gallop rhetoric we see exemplified by Bill here, is that it is unrefutable except in a formal debate. Trying to refute every lie with facts takes longer than the time he can think of the next lie. If you just say ‘everything you just said was false’, you come across as denying without evidence. If you ask them for the evidence for their claims, they’ll just scoff back or make something up ad hoc. Anyway you put it, you run out of time.
    Maybe we must suffer through this before more people actively seek out honest information.
    Informing the public through paid ads to refute the lies after every time an interviewer cuts the time on air or talks over the answer is too expensive unfortunately.
    Many people, and I’d assume a majority of believers, don’t realize the extent of how much they’re being shamelessly lied to. The first thing they learn is to trust. They never learn to question the authority’s sources or to look for evidence independently.
    Our hope is the internet. The opposition knows this, so they constantly ‘advise’ their flock not to visit certain webpages, to install filters, and if all that fails, they get sites like youtube or rdnet blocked by abusing the legal system.
    They simply do not care about free speech or honesty.
    Using the internet, rationalists can draw believers out of their circularly congratulatory blogrings and challenge their misconceptions. Often, they won’t listen and react with censorship and bannings. But we can’t afford to sit back and wait indulgently. The claws of clerical authoritarianism may have been clipped, but claws grow back. So, comment, blog, discuss, debate and challenge relentlessly.

  270. #270 Your Mighty Overload
    November 14, 2008

    Patricia,

    A-ha, you fell into my trap! Check my actual chosen moniker! It was during the period when ScienceBlogs were reaching the 1 million comments, and the web site was slow as crap. It started as a typo, but seemed apt….

    You are right, know your opponent. In karate, we are our own greatest opponent. Our natural reaction is to hold back, to not commit to attacks, lest we get hurt. The same is true here. We need to develop effective attacks, and we need to be unafraid to deploy them. Bus advertising is a good start. Getting people to think about not so much atheism per se, but to understand truly what the church is pedaling is more important. Too often churches are given the benefit of the doubt by most people, simply because most people don’t think about it. They also are very good at reinforcing people’s own bigotry, but in such a familiar way that no-one bats an eyelid.

    This is our battleground. This must be our line in the sand.

    We should not be wasting time and money defending ourselves. Rather we should be out there, writing editorials, getting on the radio, on TV, showing religions as the negative force it truly is. Dawkins “root of all evil” went some way towards it. Maher’s “religulous” and Olson’s “Flock of Dodos” seem to be little more than navel gazing. I’m not saying they are ineffective and informative for us, but, in my opinion, they are absolutely ineffective for making people re-assess their beliefs. Theists simply walk away, shaking their heads, “not MY God”, they grumble. We must show them that it IS their God – these ARE the people which represent them.

    I heard on a back episode of “The Atheist Experience” that the Texas state Governer had lumped atheists and agnostics in with child molesters in a statement, I believe about state-sponsored bigotry by the boy scouts. How this went so apparently unnoticed seems beyond me! People should have been writing editorials in newspapers, it should have made serious news time. This guy should have faced an ethics inquiry. We NEED to be pushing people very very hard to get them to THINK.

    My favourite song lyric is in “Do you realise?” by the Flaming Lips. It reads, “Do your realise, the sun doesn’t go down? It’s just an illusion caused by the world spinning round.” That lyric, every time I hear it, makes me reconsider the academic damage my own language inflicts on me every time I say the words “sunrise” or “sunset”. We need to become more effective at standing up, at attacking these organisations (on the real issues (for example, paedophilic priests is not the issue that will get people to reconsider the claims of the church, the issue that might is that the church covers it up and still claims to be a moral authority)) with complete commitment, because that is perhaps the only way that most unthinking people will actually stop to reconsider their beliefs.

  271. #271 waldteufel
    November 14, 2008

    Does the Catlick League give Bill D free laxatives?

    He sure needs ‘em.

    Still, he’s a source of great amusement . . . . .a blustering fool of the first water.

    I think Jeebus keeps him in front of the cameras just for the fun factor. Praise Jeebus, and pass the crackers!

  272. #272 Your Mighty Overload
    November 14, 2008

    I should point out that I do not feel that defending ourselves against criticism is necessarily a bad thing, but that such situations should be considered as opportunities – opportunities to attack the lies and misconceptions about atheists.

    For example, church leaders write that Obama voters shouldn’t be eligible for communion, so we should write counter-articles about their attempts to undermine the constitution – if there is one thing Americans love as much as God, it’s the constitution!

  273. #273 John Morales
    November 14, 2008

    Wowbagger @268, black wolf @269, I hope I may be excused for this, but I find a conjoinment of selected quotes from your posts felicitous and important enough to repeat:
    “[...] contemporary god-blatherers like Donohue et al. are spouting nonsense with not only a lack of historical support but sans scriptural precedent as well.”
    “Many people, and I’d assume a a majority of believers, don’t realize the extent of how much they’re being shamelessly lied to. The first thing they learn is to trust. They never learn to question the authority’s sources or to look for evidence independently.
    Our hope is the internet.”

  274. #274 Patricia
    November 14, 2008

    It has been said before – youth is wasted on the young.
    We see it here again.

    Goodnight sweethearts.

  275. #275 Dr P
    November 14, 2008

    I feel bad for the Jews…Hanukkah is always overlooked for the damn Christian orgy. Rather than Ramadan he should have said Hanukkah…that would make more sense…as if he could actually make sense.

  276. #276 Fedor
    November 14, 2008

    This man (Donohue) is really insane!! I can’t believe the bullshit he is spewing out!

  277. #277 Erwin Blonk
    November 14, 2008

    You can put any BD rant unedited on Comedy Central.

  278. #278 Mrs Tilton
    November 14, 2008

    Wowbagger @261,

    when it is the Jewish society went from being okay with polygamy to monogamy only. Is is mentioned in the bible? Did their god make some sort of proclamation

    (Ob-disclaimer: IANJLAAR.) We have to distinguish here between polyandry and polygyny. There is a fundamental disparity in the nature of marriage under Jewish law. When a man and woman marry, the woman grants the man an exclusive right of sexual access to her, but he accepts no legal obligation that she will be the only person he accesses sexually. (NB: Jews do believe that he is very much under a moral obligation not to stray; but legally speaking that obligation is not part of the marriage contract.) So one should not be surprised that Judaism would regard polygamy differently, depending on who is doing the poly part.

    Judaism views the prohibition on polyandry as of divine origin (though I can’t recall whether you’ll find that spelt out in the bible or in the talmud).

    Judaism also prohibits polygyny, but you will most certainly not find that prohibition in the bible (indeed, the OT is full of counterexamples.) The prohibition of polygyny is explicitly not of divine origin but is rather a matter of rabbinic legislation.

    Judaism distinguishes between divine commandments/prohibitions (which rabbis can interpret, but may not vary from) and rules of explicitly human origin, from which exemptions are at least in theory possible. So for example, observant Jews believe that God himself forbids them to eat a cheeseburger (mixing meat and dairy is forbidden based on the injunction against seething a kid in its mother’s milk), but that the prohibition on a chicken fillet with cheese is merely of rabbinic origin (chickens aren’t mammals, hence the divine injunction can’t apply; but rabbis are always free to expand a divine prohibition to create a sort of margin of error or, as the rabbis would call it, “a fence around the torah”).

    It’s actually a bit more complicated than that; the prohibition against having more than one wife has a different source depending on whether one is an ashkenazic (western and later eastern European) or sephardic (Iberian and later middle eastern) Jew. IIRC, in the former case the prohibition might have begun as minhag (i.e., mere custom of the community), but under Jewish teaching, custom hardens into law if it persists long enough; whereas in the latter case there was a specific act of rabbinic legislation sometime in, I believe, the late middle ages. But in both cases, there is definitely a prohibition, but it is definitely not viewed as a divine commandment.

  279. #279 black wolf
    November 14, 2008

    John Morales, you’re welcome. I’m always glad and very tummy-fuzzy when someone likes what I’ve written in my second language. Commenting on blogs and in fora has improved my language skills tremendously, so all you native speakers, please keep throwing vocabulary at me. :)

  280. #280 maxamillion
    November 14, 2008

    Father Coughlin Bill Donohue is mistaken about Jeffrey Darma.

    Jeffrey Darma didn’t have a conscience, that was the problem.

    Perhaps Father Coughlin Bill Donohue needs to repeat Sociology 101.

  281. #281 Fernando Magyar
    November 14, 2008

    Bill @ 21,

    The ads are targeted and a non-existent audience and they know that. So what’s the agenda? to piss off the christians, get their faces on TV and promote their stupid webiste.

    You know what Bill, even if that were completely true, and I think there is some truth to your observation, let’s just say that at least in my case, I’m pretty pissed at all the non stop Christian BS in my face all the time because of their agenda! I think I little push back is more than appropriate if it makes even one fence sitter open their minds, start thinking, and decide to eschew discrimination of people who have views diferent than their own, then this campaign has merit.

  282. #282 JC
    November 14, 2008

    Watching that made me think of internet rules 39 and 40
    39)CAPSLOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.
    40)EVEN WITH CRUISE CONTROL YOU STILL HAVE TO STEER

    It seems with good ole Bill there, the louder you are the more your right. I think he has rule 39 down, but he needs to work on rule 40.

  283. #283 Pablo
    November 14, 2008

    One can still apostasy, i.e. formally renounce the catholic faith, and ask to be excommunicated. It helps if you know the day and place of your baptism (especially, in which church). Then, you write to the relevant episcopal authority and ask your name to be taken off the parish register. It can take time, but if you are firm in your renunciation, they have to recognize you as an apostate and not a member of the Church anymore.

    tsg handles this comment easily and succintly, so be sure to read that followup, but I will just expand a bit. The only difference this makes is to the church itself. The bizarre thing is that, once you decide that you are not part of the church, then their rules don’t apply to you. So, outside of wanting to have the rolls reflect true numbers, there’s no reason to bother.

  284. #284 Pablo
    November 14, 2008

    While we are talking about silly catholic rules, how about this one: no same-sex godparents.

    The church makes a huge deal about selecting the appropriate godparents, and all the qualities they are supposed to have in terms of promoting the religious well-being of the child. But apparently they can only do that if one is male and the other is female.

    The bizarre thing is that, like the typical anti-same-sex couple hysteria, they would rather have a single godparent than two of the same sex. That just doesn’t make any sense. How is a second godparent going to hurt if they are the same sex as the first?

    We are catholic and expecting very soon, and our baby will be baptised catholic. However, we don’t have anyone that we would like to be a godfather, so our baby will have two godmothers. Only one will be allowed to sign the baptism certificate.

  285. #285 Russell
    November 14, 2008

    Bill is simply playing up to the ignorant masses here. Those of us who have been in the trenches understand that his arguments are round robins of just about every logical fallacy there is, but the average Joe American has no idea. But I think it’s good that Catholics are spouting similar nonsense as the fundamentalists, in fact I think we should provide more national soapboxes for them to speak. The more they talk, the more obvious it is just how full of shit they are.

  286. #286 Liberal Atheist
    November 14, 2008

    War on Christmas? Is complaining about a non-issue a new Christmas tradition for these Christians? They seem to do it every year lately. Are there really atheists running around stopping people from celebrating Christmas?

  287. #287 Aaron
    November 14, 2008

    You know, if they’re going to put David up against Goliath, they should at least make sure he knows how to use a sling.

    The guest completely fumbled the rebuttal to Donohue’s classic categorical syllogism fallacy. (Hitler(*), Stalin, Pol Pot were all Atheists and they did bad things, therefore ALL Atheists will do bad things)

    [* And the guest didn't even bring up Hitler being a devout Christian!!!! How could you miss that point???]

  288. #288 Nick Gotts
    November 14, 2008

    Does anyone have a link to a reasonably objective account of what “Bash Back” actually did in the Lansing Church? Did they assault anyone? Cause deliberate damage? If the first then they definitely went too far; the second might be justifiable depending on circumstances; if neither, then I’d have no problem at all with their actions, given the loathsome homophobia of most evangelical churches (including, I assume, this one). NVDA is an essential political tool.

  289. #289 Moses
    November 14, 2008

    Posted by: DangerAardvark | November 13, 2008 7:42 PM

    How come no one focused on the real point of Eric Atkinson’s post, which was that disrupting people’s private service is not okay?

    Because we already know that it’s not okay. And that it is not part of the issue — Donahue ranting at a simple free speech message that he wants to suppress, but can’t — but is rather a red herring. The kind of red herring Donahue typically throws out when he’s playing his professionally out-raged victim card.

    We’d be stupid to chase the red herring.

    Further, if you’re going to give us a red herring, don’t give us a full-out homophobic rant to start it. It is even less likely that we’re going to address your red herring because now you’ve shown your true colors and have made yourself, and your bigotry, the issue.

  290. #290 Alan Kellogg
    November 14, 2008

    Mrs. Tilton, #278

    When you consider the specific nature of the prohibition against steeping a kid in its mother’s milk, the ban on cheese burgers can only be considered a case of rabbinical interpretation. Indeed, under a truly strict interpretation, there is nothing in the Law prohibiting steeping a kid in the milk of a different female goat. The law says only not in its mother’s milk.

    Thus it could be said that all of Judaism’s problems throughout history can be attributed to God’s displeasure at the Jewish people’s overly broad interpretation of a simple divine law.

  291. #291 Tim
    November 14, 2008

    Gay Terrorists??? It’s about time gays got fucking angry with these meddlesome churches. They’ve all spent way too much time and wasted millions on making life as miserable as possible for their gay family members. In typical schoolyard bully fashion, they can dish it out but can’t take an once of criticism for their ridiculous beliefs and obsession with gay people. Payback’s long, long overdue and hopefully this is just the beginning and the atheist community stands behind the gay community. To hell with respecting freedom of religion when these con artists have spent their careers destroying gay and lesbian families.

  292. #292 bernard quatermass
    November 14, 2008

    “I think Donahue is correct, there is an agenda here.”

    This isn’t really directed at the whole post at #21, I was just tipped into something by that first sentence.

    It’s interesting. I see the word “agenda” as a fairly neutral, fairly “well, of course” word, but it seems that lately it has become another one of those “witch-hunt” words like “socialist,” “Communist,” and, save us, “liberal.”

    I mean, correct me if I am wrong here, but don’t we all, as individuals and as groups, have what might accurately be termed “agendas”? It doesn’t make any sense to me to assume that we are all bland, directionless blobs: we have desires, we have things that make us happy or unhappy, and so of course we have … agendas. Maybe someone who just goes to work and watches a lot of TV and has a lot of kids and thinks everything is peachy doesn’t, but …

    I understand the negative connotations of the term “hidden agenda,” since that implies sneakiness, or that someone is lying about their motives, but when did the “hidden” get lopped off and agendas qua agendas become something we are not supposed to have?

  293. #293 E.V.
    November 14, 2008

    #262 BlackBart (AKA Erik A.)
    FAIL
    Worst sock puppet attempt ever.

  294. #294 Steve in MI
    November 14, 2008

    re# 288

    The Detroit Free Press (http://www.freep.com) has an original article on the incident. Dawson Bell, the byline reporter, is reasonably well-known reporter in this state, and is a regular guest on a weekly political talk show that runs on the local PBS stations. IIRC, he leans to the right when speaking as a pundit, but his paper is the more left-leaning of the two Detroit dailies. I don’t know anything firsthand about whether he’s giving this story a fair treatment.

    The local paper of record in that area is the Lansing State Journal. A quick search of their Web site turned up this story, but I didn’t see any follow-up articles.

    What’s surprising to me is that I hadn’t heard a word about it until I caught the thread here. I live only about an hour from where this event allegedly occurred, and I’m a pretty serious news junkie. But I haven’t heard
    a peep about this in the local media. From what’s in the articles, I wonder if the protesters just stuck their heads in the door, shouted a bit, and then left.

    In any case, I wish I’d known that they were going. I’d have offered a ride and help with the banner. Of course I’d also have suggested some more appropriate targets.

  295. #295 tsg
    November 14, 2008

    @BlackBart #262

    Eric, when your mother said you could be anything you wanted to be, she didn’t mean an asshole.

  296. #296 scott
    November 14, 2008

    I think that this ad missed the mark. Does the AHA want to challenge people to question their belief in god(s) or do they want to decouple morality from religion? It seems that their ad is cheered by atheists and antagonistic to religious people. Waste of money, IMO. Also, they really need a better spokesman – that guy was hardly persuasive or charismatic. Perhaps he suffered from the fact that his position is largely indefensible?

    Donohue is a fuckstain, of course, but it doesn’t validate the AHA’s ad.

  297. #297 E.V.
    November 14, 2008

    And Eric’s/BB’s denial comes in 5…4…3…2…

  298. #298 Russell Stewart
    November 14, 2008

    “Jeffrey Dahmer had a conscience too.”

    No, Bill, he didn’t. He was a sociopath, and they are generally not known for having much of a conscience.

    Could this guy be more of a blathering idiot if he even tried?

  299. #299 SeanD.
    November 14, 2008

    “Is there ever a point in time where you stop being a simpering gimp, Eric?”

    Fixed it for ya…

    “GO GET THE GIMP!”

  300. #300 Jane
    November 14, 2008

    I have empathy for Dahmer who was seriously ill (and made in the image of god,lol) this guy doesn’t, but didn’t his ilk let Jeffrey Dahmer into their heaven after he accepted Jesus as his personal savior?

  301. #301 jane
    November 14, 2008

    ..re my dahmer comment…. correction: Not empathy, just that i recognize he was seriously troubled. I find Dahmer less objectionable than this guy; dahmer couldn’t help being a monster.

  302. #302 raven
    November 14, 2008

    Donohue is a psychotic attack cockroach and is The Catholic League.

    He also isn’t very bright, honest, or brave like most religious cranks.

    For real antiCatholic bigotry, the fundie Xians are the current champs. Most of them believe the RCC is the Church of satan and the Pope is the antichrist. The Wisconsin Evang. Lutherans (WELS) is one, it is even stated as such on their website. This is BTW, Michelle Bachmann’s church.

    Does Donohue ever bother to respond to the fundie bigots for such serious accusations. He does occasionally but mostly just ignores them. This is because, the last time the RCC started shooting protestants around 400 years ago, they started shooting back. A few tens of millions of dead and 400 years later, the secular authorities have disarmed both sides and no longer allows religious civil wars within their borders.

    It is so much easier to bully tiny minorities like gays and atheists.

  303. #303 Nick Gotts
    November 14, 2008

    Steve in MI@294,
    Thanks for the links. Sounds like there was no violence, or damage to property, unless the fire alarm is one that involves breaking glass, and “pulled the fire alarm” suggests it wasn’t. I think hate-preaching churches are completely valid targets for non-violent disruption, and that Bash Back should consider suing Donahue for libel for calling them “terrorists”.

  304. #304 Sven DiMilo
    November 14, 2008

    LInks to stories on the “gay terrorists” can be found in comments # 29 and 33.
    In my opinion, they crossed the line into inappropriate disruption. However, nobody was hurt. For a hysterical wingnut Christian account, see here for laffs.

  305. #305 Steve_C
    November 14, 2008

    I think the the LDS is completely open to this form of disruption. It really makes the point of how these people took an active part in denying the right of other people. They shouldn’t get to feel untouchable in their churches.

    It’s a form of protest. But the protesters should be ready to be arrested too.

  306. #306 Mrs Tilton
    November 14, 2008

    Alan @290,

    the ban on cheese burgers can only be considered a case of rabbinical interpretation

    Not quite. The milk/(mammalian) meat thing is a bit more complicated than I wanted to get into upthread, as it was serving merely as illustration. For many centuries mainstream Judaism has seen two sources of direct divine commandment: torah shebiktav (the written laws contained in the pentateuch) and torah shebe’alpeh (laws God gave to Moses orally atop the mountain; “Dude, look, you’re running out of space on those tablets, just keep these ones in your head”). Though you’ll only find the first set explicitly stated in the bible, Judaism regards the second as every bit as much divine law as the first. (Throughout history there have been streams of Judaism, like the Samaritans and the Karaites, who reject oral law and, a fortiori, the talmud, and insist that the five books of Moses are the only legitimate source of law; Jewish protestants, if you will. They are still around, but vanishingly rare.)

    The part about not stewing the kid-goat in its mother’s own milk is a written prohibition, and the more general non-mixing of meat and dairy a sort of oral-law gloss on that; but both are divine prohibitions. The non-mixing of poultry and dairy, by contrast, is rabbinic in origin. I believe the reasoning was that, even though God wouldn’t be pissed off at the Grand Rebbe tucking into chicken parmigiana, if the simple faithful saw him they might mistake his meal for veal parmigiana and wrongly conclude the latter was an acceptable dinner.

    Now in another way your statement above is of course correct. This is all a matter of rabbinic interpretation of old myths and legends and traditions accreting over centuries, because it’s extremely unlikely that there really is a God who cares about cookery and gave Moses a bunch of written laws on that and other subjects and told him to commit a bunch more to memory. But on its own terms, Jewish law would view both the kid/mother’s-milk and the general mammalian meat/any-sort-of-dairy prohibitions as divine in origin, the poultry/dairy prohibitions by contrast as of human origin. Much the same way, then, that the prohibition against a wife having multiple husbands is deemed divine, the prohibition against a husband having multiple wives merely human.

    A word about sources. I am not a rabbi, not even Jewish, merely somebody with an interest in comparative law. The meat/poultry/milk stuff I picked up during the years that I read soc.culture.jewish on usenet. The people (observant Jews) who were having the conversation seemed knowledgeable enough SFAICT, but would not have claimed rabbinical authority for their statements. The distinction between the prohibitions on polygyny and polyandry I picked up in a seminar on Jewish law under a professor who was both a secular lawyer and a rabbi, in a section devoted to sources and methods of law. But if you want an authoritative statement, you’ll need to speak with a rabbi. Better speak with only one, though, as I get the impression that if you ask two rabbis, you’ll get three opinions.

  307. #307 PZ Myers
    November 14, 2008

    You guys chased Eric Atkinson away?

    Well, there’s only one thing left to top of this thread. That’s for PZ to come in and call us Rowdies, and spank everyone.

    You are all rowdies, spankings for everyone, and as a bonus, the oral sex. And if any knights ride in and try to rescue you, you have my permission to fling them from the battlements, with much rejoicing.

  308. #308 Matt Heath
    November 14, 2008

    Raven@302: It’s almost as if he’s a right-wing tool who is more concerned with kicking queers and the godless than with his fellow Catholics well-being or free-practice rights.

    O right.

  309. #309 E.V.
    November 14, 2008

    It was naughty naughty Zoot who turned on the beacon which happened to frighten poor Eric A. off.

  310. #310 Steve in MI
    November 14, 2008

    Nick@303: the only grey area for this group is in the church’s claim that the protesters pulled the fire alarm. Doing so knowingly and willingly would be a misdemeanor under MCL 750.240(a-b). (Thank goodness for Michigan Public Act 328 of 1931; it also prohibits operating a wood-fueled tractor on a public highway without a spark arrestor. See? That Michigan legislature; always first in the public interest).

    However, even if the fire alarm did go off it would be darned difficult to prove who did it (protesters or panicked chuch members?). It’s also tough to tell whether it was done “knowingly and willingly” as opposed to being done by someone who was careless while unfurling their banner.

    I don’t condemn what this group did, but I think it would be a fat lot more effective if they protested on the sidewalk immediately before or after the church’s services. It eliminates any question about trespass vs. protest, and substantially improves the chances of the protest making the evening news.

  311. #311 Skippy
    November 14, 2008

    I’m telling you, Donohue is going to stroke out on live TV one of these days. I’ve honestly -never- seen the guy when he wasn’t having a screaming ragegasm.

  312. #312 scooter
    November 14, 2008

    fatherdaddy @ 141

    Liberals have a somewhat kneejerk reaction to libertarians. Libertarians come in varying degrees, a friend of mine is an editor of REASON magazine, the CATO rag, and has rarely said anything I disagree with. I’m basically a liberal, but also am a high tariff small military isolationist strong union free-trader who advocates a highly regulated banking system, and outrageous taxes on weapons manufacturers.

    Also a doper with a gun fetish, so I’m down with yall quite often.

  313. #313 scooter
    November 14, 2008

    Has anybody else noticed that Donahue looks and sounds just like Elmer Fudd?

    Separated at birth ?

  314. #314 Rey Fox
    November 14, 2008

    “Rowdies” was the name of the hardcore section of the crowd at my high school’s football games. Could I be something else?

  315. #315 seamaiden75
    November 14, 2008

    PZ the great and nobel leader of the pharyngulites has bestowed his generous blessings upon us! Let us rejoice with all manner of singing and naked dancing to praise his name! He who confonds us not with parables but speaks plainly so that all ears may hear and understand his great wisdom. We bask in you mighty glow.

  316. #316 Eric Saveau
    November 14, 2008

    with much rejoicing

    …yaaaaay…
    :-)

  317. #317 Tom L
    November 14, 2008

    Did Donohue actually mean to say that “Be good for goodness’ sake” leads to massacres and genocide?

  318. #318 Last Hussar
    November 14, 2008

    Patricia and Janine have two pairs. I have a full house…

    badda bing badda boom

  319. #319 FastLane
    November 14, 2008

    Which line is for the spankings, and which is for the oral sex?

    decisions, decisions…..

    Always late to the party, that’s me.

    Cheers.

  320. #320 John Morales
    November 14, 2008

    Interesting that EA gave up molesting us when Angel appeared.

    As for the oral sex, I dunno what all the fuss is about. I’d much rather do it than talk about it…

    <ducks>

  321. #321 Angel Kaida
    November 14, 2008

    @320,
    Yeah, I feel pretty important o.o; Maybe the appearance of real libertarians is anathema to fake ones? (No, I’m not planning to join in the libertarian pestering on nonrelated – or even related – threads. I find it stupid and annoying, and I’m too shy about it anyway. Just looking for some reason I’d have driven off the jerk…)

  322. #322 John Morales
    November 14, 2008

    Heh, Angel. Your name is pretty close to spanish “fallen Angel”, so perphaps he thinks you’re a Buffyverse crossover?

    Nah, you were probably the last straw, yet another person asking how to killfile him.

    Good job.

  323. #323 Qwerty
    November 14, 2008

    I dunno. I’m gay and I wasn’t bothered by EricA’s “butt pirates.” Perhaps it’s because I embraced my queerdom a long time ago. (I don’t like being called a faggot, though.)

    Of course, I’ve been told I have a nice ass, but I put it behind me.

    As for Donohue, his tirade was disgusting. It seems the self-rightous religious wingnuts want to blame all deaths since time began on non-believers. Hogwash!!!

  324. #324 Craig
    November 14, 2008

    “All men are ugly.”

    The only person who would say that is someone who is not secure in their sexuality.

    A normal, well adjusted heterosexual has no problem acknowledging and even appreciating the physical beauty some people possess regardless of gender.

  325. #325 wrpd
    November 14, 2008

    I bet there is a group somewhere called “Butt Pirates for Christ.” Arg.
    Jeffrey Dahmer was the scariest person I ever saw.

  326. #326 ggab
    November 14, 2008

    Craig
    “A normal, well adjusted heterosexual has no problem acknowledging and even appreciating the physical beauty some people possess regardless of gender.”

    I’m well adjusted enough to admit that I’d throw one in Johnny Depp.
    He doesn’t have to wear the pirate outfit, but it might help if he did. AAARRRR!

  327. #327 Alan Kellogg
    November 14, 2008

    Mrs. Tilton, #306

    Ah, so the Oral Law is a matter of rabbinical interpretation. A bunch of grumpy old farts with lactose intolerance ruining meal time for everybody.

    BTW, I was once invited to become a Karaite thanks to a serious of alternate history posts I made to the soc.history.what-if news group many years ago. It’s a long story, but it had to do with Karaite missionaries traveling to Japan, converting the nation, and Japanese Karaite missionaries then traveling to China, Indonesia, the Philipines, and even North America spreading the faith and Japanese culture. It end with Shino fundamentalists tossing the Karaites out of Japan after a palace coup, and the Karaite Japanese kingdoms in North America and their aboriginal allies swearing an oath to liberate the homeland from the heathens. On the Day of Atonement the saying was, “Next year in Kyoto.”

  328. #328 Patricia
    November 14, 2008

    See, I warned you deviants. PZ is not one bit afraid to deal out the spankings.

    And you pervs with the tentacle ticklers, room Z.

    Slaves, to the trebuchets, the christians are at the battlements and the chamber pots need to be loaded into the slings. Lets move it people. PZ is naked, we gotta hold the reef.

    Gays, pleeze, get your pom-poms and glitter going.

    -ducks-

  329. #329 Patricia
    November 14, 2008

    Qwerty – Runway strut that ass of yours in front of Ken Cope, he’s the true judge here. Although I might be persuaded to sit in the seat behind him and second guess.

    Mmmmmm… Last H., hunny the pairs that Janine and I have can bring UP a full house.

  330. #330 Mrs Tilton
    November 15, 2008

    Scooter @312,

    I’m basically a… high tariff … free-trader

    Now that’s an interesting trick.

  331. #331 UO
    November 15, 2008

    The funny part is that Donahue has a doctorate in sociology from NYU. So he isn’t uninformed, just lying.

  332. #332 Holydust
    November 15, 2008

    @UO: That’s interesting to hear. :D Funny thing about it is, I took Sociology in the heart of the Bible belt and the “religion is necessary for morals to exist” theory never actually never came up.

    Funny how that works. I guess I got the abridged “Sociology 101″.

  333. #333 John Phillips, FCD
    November 15, 2008

    Again Cuttlefish delivers the goods, in both posts, WOW.

    Anyone tell me what an Internet standing ovation sounds like? For if anyone deserves it, Cuttlefish surely does, and not just the once either.

  334. #334 Moses
    November 15, 2008

    Remember the Gay Anarchist Terrorists that attacked the Church over Prop H8…. Not so much. Church Officials Lie to Police.

    I say let’s Nuke Christmas till it glows in retaliation!!!

  335. #335 John Phillips, FCD
    November 15, 2008

    @Moses, that can’t be right, after all xians would never lie, would they? I mean it is supposed to be one of their ten biggies after all. Or have they rewritten them to explicitly exclude lies about non-believers. What do you call it when the US Pres adds a little rider of his own to a bill allowing him to effectively ignore the bits he doesn’t like. Perhaps their head honcho did one of those so that it doesn’t count when it is lies about the gays or us evil awful godless, or anyone who isn’t ‘one of them’ come to that.

  336. #336 Nick Gotts
    November 15, 2008

    #334,

    Cue apology from Bill Donahue in, er, well…
    Nah. Let’s be serious.

  337. #337 Bryan
    November 15, 2008

    Re Dahmer, here’s a statement he made in court.
    (source: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/intro.html)

    “Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners… But for that very reason, I was shown mercy so that in me… Jesus Christ might display His unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the king eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever.”

  338. #338 Ken Cope
    November 15, 2008

    #329, Qwerty – Runway strut that ass of yours in front of Ken Cope, he’s the true judge here. Although I might be persuaded to sit in the seat behind him and second guess.

    I’d prefer to stand behind your judgement Patricia, as my attention is more likely to be riveted by Uiop’s aftermath, unless there is flouncing involved, or a peculiar result upon uttering the word Bricklebrit.

  339. #339 Ken Cope
    November 15, 2008

    In catching up with this thread, and wondering why EA is obsessed with Butt Piracy, it occurs to me that Judy Tenuta would have blamed it on the Lesbetarians.

  340. #341 Buffy
    November 15, 2008

    OMG, someone challenged the dogma the church has been drilling into people’s heads for centuries. They’re evil! Burn them at the stake! Novel ideas are baaaaaaad.

    Some people need to get a life.

  341. #342 Steverino
    November 15, 2008

    I think what’s at play here is, for the last 200 plus years in this country, Christianity has been able to celebrate whenever and where ever they wish. Only recently have those of other faith or no faith at all started to stand up for themselves. And, acting like the spoiled children that Christianity has become, they react by yelling “Its not fair!! It’s not fair!!!”

    I guess when you own 92% of the farm and the other 8% wants some say in how you milk the cows…”fair” is concept that you really have no grasp of.

  342. #343 Fernando Magyar
    November 16, 2008

    Patricia @328

    Slaves, to the trebuchets, the christians are at the battlements and the chamber pots need to be loaded into the slings. Lets move it people. PZ is naked, we gotta hold the reef.

    Gays, pleeze, get your pom-poms and glitter going.

    Any chance someone could paint that scene in a Micheal Angelo Sistine Chapel ceiling style, on the side of one of those DC buses?!

  343. #344 wrpd
    November 16, 2008

    The other day I heard Stephen Baldwin–the really stupid Baldwin brother–that must be the oxyiest oxymoron there is–use the word “trebuchet” in a movie. I wonder how long it took the director to explain to him what a trebuchet is.

  344. #345 Bezoar
    November 17, 2008

    Funny how Donohue’s point seems to be being made as this post devolved from discussing goodness for goodness’ sake vs religion demading that you be good, to gay rights and gay bashing, violent content and freewheeling epithets. I always thought of myself as a fun loving atheist. Can’t we all just get along?

  345. #346 Estetik
    November 17, 2008

    OMG, someone challenged the dogma the church has been drilling into people’s heads for centuries. They’re evil! Burn them at the stake! Novel ideas are baaaaaaad.