Every time I think I find hope, it gets dashed.

DECLINE, it's POPULAR MECHANICS, and it has been thoroughly debunked. You are misled, but that's because you stick to corporate controlled information. PM is owned by Hearst Corp., the news company for whome the term "yellow journalism" was defined. Read the top one first - I'm sure that will inspire you to continue to seek the truth for yourself instead of swallowing the pablum the mainstream media feeds to you, so I've provided a few extra links. Happy enlightenment!

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

http://stj911.org/evidence/wtc.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics…

DECLINE, it's POPULAR MECHANICS, and it has been thoroughly debunked. You are misled, but that's because you stick to corporate controlled information. PM is owned by Hearst Corp., the news company for whome the term "yellow journalism" was defined. Read the top one first - I'm sure that will inspire you to continue to seek the truth for yourself instead of swallowing the pablum the mainstream media feeds to you, so I've provided a few extra links. Happy enlightenment!

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

http://stj911.org/evidence/wtc.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics…

I like to imagine that they applaud because they're afraid, and cling to anything that lets them feel like it will all be ok.

Who wants to be wrong, really?

According to the AP, "President Bush said on Thursday that mass shootings are a reminder that people must be willing to raise a red flag about others' disturbing behavior."

I think we all need to carry around red flags to wave whenever Rove or Bush or Gonzales, et al. say something like that flies in the face of truth or defies the will of the American people.

"When asked whose idea it was to launch a preemptive war in Iraq, Rove replied - and I'm not making this up - "I think it was Osama bin Laden's.""

So, according to Karl Rove, Osama bin Laden is an advisor to the President of the United States? An advisor whom he listens too? I would have thought that being blamed for the 9/11 attacks would have kept him from being considered for any sort of advice, much less a high-level position in which he is able to advise the President to preemptively attack a country that had not attacked the United States. Apparently the current Republican Party and this Republican Administration is even more foolish and corrupt than even I thought.

This is unbelievable. Before this I thought he was devious, manipulative, amoral and basically wrong about everything except thinking up ways to scare fundamentalists into voting for Bush, but now I know: Rove is officially not right iin the head.

M.D.: "It's the kind of thing that you really don't expect to hear from anyone with an IQ that's higher than the refrigerator temperature."

Celsius.

What would've been different under a Gore presidency?

9/11 would've happened after the invasion of Iraq. We'd also be a lot further along in establishing a functioning democracy there.

As the Vulcan saying goes, "Only Nixon can go to China."

While I presume the reality is that he is simply playing up to the ignorant prejudices of his audience another interpretation is that he is crediting Bin Laden with a lot more ability than he deserves. To carry out the 9-11 attacks in order to prompt Bush into carrying out the neocon Iraq 'regime-change' plan (devised long before 9-11), and thus creating huge anti-American feelings thoughout the islamic world is the work of a pretty smart guy. To simultaneuosly realise that this Iraq invasion would spread the US military so thin that they would be unable to defeat the remaining Taliban forces, allowing Bin Laden to escape is a work of a true master planner.
Well, either that or he knows the audience believes Saddam and Bin Laden were both responsible for 9-11.
Shame on Rove ? Shame on his audience.

They applauded because this is red meat to Bush/Cheney followers. The leaders are smart enough to deny it, but they've been connecting Iraq to 9/11 for over five years now. The kind of audience Rove speaks to has bought it, completely. Any contradictory information is treated as being propaganda by the liberal elite and their minions in the media.

I actually think it is true. Bin Laden hoped and prayed that Bush would attack Iraq after 9/11. Bush has done more to advance the goals of Al Qaeda than Bin Laden ever could by himself.

Destroy the one secular state in the region and replace it with anarchy?

I thought he meant it was Osama bin Laden's idea for the US to invade Iraq. Because that I believe. Poor Osama had just a hell of a time breaking into a secular dictatorship and getting anywhere under the Baathist watchful eye. Much easier for Islamist terrorists with pesky law and order removed.

As Voltaire said, " It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."

We need to seek and cherish the truth, which will set us free, as Jesus asssured us.

I think you should consider Rove is telling the exact truth. Remember the long history of friendship between the Bushes and the Bin Ladens, not unlike the friendship of the Bushes and the Hinckleys!

Rove is an OBVIOUS psychopath. Do some research on psychopathology and you'll recognise it soon enough. It could be argued that the entire US administration are psychopaths. Rove is merely a psychopath who has managed to find himself a niche in life that is very well-suited to his mental "temperament".

Why the audience laughter? Could have been "nervous" laughter on the part of some - that uneasy feeling that normal people get in the presence of a psychopath and the feeling that you dare not anger them - the "go along to get along" crowd; some of them may be psychopaths themselves and truly found it funny; some may just be fawning in a sense - in a world where the most psychotic are rewarded with the highest positions of power, there's a strong pull to identify with and emulate those in power; the remainder might just be imbeciles. The characteristics of a psychopath:

Glibness/superficial charm.
Grandiose sense of self-worth.
Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
Pathological lying
Conning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect
Callous/lack of empathy
Parasitic lifestyle
Poor behavioral controls
Promiscuous sexual behavior
Early behavior problems
Lack of realistic, long-term plans
Impulsivity
Irresponsibility
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Many short-term marital relationships
Juvenile delinquency
Revocation of conditional release
Criminal versatility (Hare, 1986)

How could Americans - the people who get to decide who runs this country of ours

When will people get over the naive thought that they "choose" who will run the country. Candidates are "given" to us to choose from. Then its all about -better the devil you know than the devil you dont.

Money rules this country and if you dont make money or direct money to you handlers, you are not going up the ladder.

WAKE UP PEOPLE. You choose nothing. If you keep wanting to believe in this fantasy, we are truely done for....although I already see that we are.

This World has been veiled from the truth for a long long time, in every way Imaginable. But Just speeking on the good old USA, Lets say everyone didn`t applaud then they would have to ask thems selves these questions, who did, why did We let it happen, and if so We inadvertantly are sending our boys and Girls to death by our own Hands if We still think We have any power in a Non-existant Constitutional Democracy over this an We don`t. But We even don`t want to admit that. Don`t You see that there has been a Psych-ops in this Country and world to diferant degrees that is Being pursued to force the public into applauding anything Big Brother says now, now matter how stupid and in Your face. This is what I have heard all over as a self made question People ask themselves " If I don`t agree with this what in GODS NAME can I do by myself to change it or make a differance" So the sheep Clap and keep clapping till the majority start complaining, and then its to late, way to late.
Don`t feel to bad our Fathers where also duped, but it still won`t change the wrong, just mmake You feel less guilty which is exactly what they want.
Basically God ask Us all "who will stand for me"

Keep the faith, God is the only way Out

I'm not defending Rove -- either the person or his work, but I think some are taking that careless comment too literally. It is a stretch, but understandable, in that he meant that the roots of the Iraqi invasion are traceable back to 9/11 ... which disaster he attributes to Osama's idea/action. (So, we can see it played out this way: "See what you made me do, Osama? Now I gotta invade what's his name... if you hadn't done that 9/11 thing the idea never would have come up at all!" In that convoluted manner Osama can be imagined as the author of the "idea" to invade Iraq. )

Where do I stand on this subject? I don't think "Osama" had any real part in the 9/11 orchestrated demolitions. I'm even more certain that Iraq had no connection with it whatsoever.

bill g

Wow, bill g, I thought you had some insight there until the last paragraph. The "Bush Administration orchestrated 9/11" conspiracy nonsense is so tranparently ridiculous that it doesn't warrant serious comment. It's such a pity that some people are so incensed with this President, one of the most incompetent in our history, that they actually believe that he was capable of pulling off such a massive deceit. President Bush wasn't competent or devious enough to plant WMDs in Iraq, but somehow he orchestrated a spectacular attack, captured on film, in order to lie to us about WMDs to get us to attack Iraq? the logic is mind-boggling.

What is scary and saddening at the same time is that he knows that there is still a majority of US citizens who will actually believe this. It is truly a worry that he can get away with this moronic statement and have people trying to rationalise what he said.

Decline - I suggest you start looking into the evidence by visiting Whatreallyhappened.com

Chezjake: I think we all need to carry around red flags to wave whenever Rove or Bush or Gonzales, et al. say something like that flies in the face of truth or defies the will of the American people.

A most excellent idea! Let those scumbags see a forest of red flags every time they come up with another line of BS! Unfortunately, the neocons are already screening attendees at their gatherings, just to make sure they never ever have to face a hostile audience.

Kelli,

You might consider reading Popular Science's investigation into the 9/11 conspiracies.

Here's what Osama (Tim Osman)told poor deluded Karl on the secure CIA hotline when they last talked strategy. Osama: Hey Karl, i know i made the final decision for Dubya to invade Iraq but really we need more Shia representation in Al-Qaeda, the organization i created with CIA and Saudi royal money. I'm completely dissatisfied that we're only recruiting Sunni's into our ranks against the American occupiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, so can you please tell the President to speed up that invasion of Iran. Karl: It getting a little tough Tim, the American people are getting wise to us and besides you haven't sent one of your patented scare videos in over 2 years to inspire fear in the sheeple, i mean people. Osama: Remember, Karl as long as Dick Cheney and yourself are pulling the strings of the puppet, i mean President, the attack on Iran will eventually happen. Besides you can always make up another 9-11 style psyop, declare martial law and then blame it on the Iranians. You're people will buy it hook, line, and sinker and also it will completely suppress that irritating 9-11 truth movement which is starting to catch on with the American people. Karl: you're right Tim, timing is everything, thats why the Bush's, you're family (Bin Ladens), the military-industrial complex and the oil industry owe a debt of gratitude to you. Besides if we play our cards right it will put off my testifying under oath to Congress indefinitely. Osama: Enough said, i'm going to hang out in that mansion, i mean cave the Pakistani ISI had set up for me after that escape from Tora Bora in late 2001 and wait for the Iran war to start. Tell the President and Dick i said hi, Karl: Later, Tim and to let you know the funds for Al-Qaeda are in the bank. Osama: Thanks Karl, I'll send you a new video after the Iran war starts just to up the fear factor. Karl: Appreciate it Tim, and take care.

First, Karl Rove is an intelligent man. His IQ around 180 as I remember. Second, the audience is hand picked for their "flavor" and other security factors to insure guest "approval". This is common knowlege. As for truth, anyone who follows the ball knows that our reasons for going to war were the presidents decision making. No matter how much we dislike Karl Rove our president made the choices. We all do understand that politics in this country requires a constant "spin" cycle not the truth. These are politcians we are talking about. They do have an agenda and it's not "pleasing the voters". To believe them is to believe in santa or the easter bunny. It's what you all want or you would do something besides typing stupid nonsense and hoping it will dispell your anger. I wonder here.....who is more full of it, Karl Rove or the stupid in this country. He's at the top and has nothing to fear....can you say the same? As for the president he does have the Japanese and Chinese lining up for idiot loans to pay for this war and he does have 30 some percent believing fairy tales and he does have the Christain right in his pocket.....or is it the other way around? He has those WMD and last time I looked they were under a lecturn he was speaking at. He's got illegals in every neighborhood in America except the rich ones that is. Point is he is at least doing something about his agenda and it is working. Look around you but don't expect it to change without doing something besides typing.....it won't.

You misquoted the passage you site about preemptive war on IRAQ. He was referencing the total war, which started with Afghanastan. Why would anyone believe anything else he uses. This is sloppy argument, even for a kook.

Dear Decline and Fall

Re: your comment on my comment.

You jumped to a prejudiced conclusion; if you will re-check you will see that I never said that the 9/11 scenario was ochestrated by the Bush administration.( Hey! I don't need no midnight knocks on my flimsy door!)

It seems to me that your main argument against the
9/11 "truth movement" rests on the Popular Science gloss article -- one that you have further certified because your personal incedulity rejects out-of-hand the idea of such a horrendous "Black Flag" operation.

To certify that such political nastiness can actually obtain I would suggest looking into that sterling example found in the infamous case of the USS Liberty. The outraged survivor's maintain a web site that spells out the politically incorrect details. If the horror story of the Liberty doesn't frost your gizzard nothing will.

A thought: I found this particular discussion while perusing the news list on Rense.Com. In case you are not aware of it there is an archived master file on Rense with some hundreds of links concerning 9/11. Anyone who spends a few dozen hours checking them out will perforce have some new and disturbing insignts into the subject. I think even you might re-evaluate your degree of reliance concerning the legitamacy of the Popular Science's rush to judgment. You might even agree with many others in re-classifying it as a faulty and failed bit of "whitewashing".

Best regards, bill g.

I wonder, if this is anything like what people felt when the national socialists came to power in Germany in the 30's. As I've never been to USA, I probably can't quite relate (from an European perspective, USA has always, i.e. as far as I can remember, seemed a bit "strange".), but it does seem surreal that people will buy this sort of BS. Sometimes I think that humanity might be better off extinct.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Didn't we go to Iraq to annihilate al-Quaida? So Osama started the war to destroy himself??!!

Re: 9/11- The original editor and staff were fired because they refused to print the "gloss piece" (fitting description.) So guess who got put in as new editor? Michael Chertoff's cousin! Yep, that Popular Mechanics piece is THE TRUTH....

If Bush W. had orchestrated 9/11, one plane would have smashed into the Tower of London, while the other landed in Perth, Australia, safe but confused. Then W would have told America we had to invade France because Osama had visited the leaning tower of Pisa in Italy.

bill g,

Sorry for jumping to conclusions. Yes, I'm aware of the USS Liberty. I used to teach a class on the Arab-Israeli Conflict in which the USS Liberty incident played a prominent role. But saying that the government is capable of nastiness (which I don't find unreasonable at all) and saying that 9/11 is a representative example of said nastiness are two very different things. It's much easier to let an ally "slide," as in the USS Liberty case, than to orchestrate such a complex, difficult and impossible-to-cover-up operation as 9/11. The logistics behind such a monumental achievement (one would at least have to admire the technical brilliance, professionalism and thoroughness of this administration, or the CIA, or the Mossad, or whoever for pulling off such a feat) alone put it squarely into the "just shy of impossible" category.

Sadly for our country and the world, none of these organizations or people has ever shown itself so capable in any of its legitimate functions, as llewelly so snarkily points out in his comment. I only wish they were capable of performing the basic functions of government as well as the conspiracy theorists think they performed 9/11. It doesn't add up.

The Popular Science piece, far from being the last word on the subject, is but a good distillation of the counterpoints to the main arguments of the conspiracy theorists. What it shows, along with the many other resources regarding these claims, is that the claims of conspiracy don't stand up to the actual evidence at hand. Furthermore, the conspiracy theorists have cherry-picked the evidence and made false claims about it, just like climate change deniers and creationists do.

But I suspect you will continue to believe what you want to believe. As it happens, I've had a fair amount of experience with conspiracy types of the Illuminati/Council on Foreign Relations/Freemason variety, and the types of misinformation, cherry-picking and belief in both the supreme nastiness and supreme competence of the conspirators that I found there were on a par with the 9/11 conspiracy theorists. The evidence just isn't there.

Best regards,

D&F

we need to try this administracion for war crimes and crimes against humanity.the rebuilding of new orleans is the bench mark of this presidents sucess .as one of americas great cities ,is still actually hanging on.of cource this took all of the best the bush team has to offer so every thing else was run by second string players.