Today, while at the Johnson Space Center, I accidentally heard a very disturbing conversation. A young boy, probably five or six years old, was asking his mother about the moon. She proceeded to explain to him how the moon got here. It was created by God, she told him, on the fourth day.
It was created on the fourth day. After the plants, but before the animals. That's what she told this poor child, as he stood there next to a football-field-sized rocket, looking at a beautiful 10-foot diameter picture of the moon that was hanging on the wall right in front of the Saturn V. The moon was created - poof! - the same day that the sun was created, and the stars.
I honestly can't understand how people can do that to innocent children. It robs them of so much. For starters, it robs them of the truth (or any reasonable facsimile thereof). It robs them of knowledge about the world that they are growing up in. Worst of all, it deprives them of the unimaginable majesty of the universe.
Two planets - not the genteel, middle aged planets of today, but two hot, young, much-battered planets, still growing, still forming, slam into each other. They fuse together in a massive explosion. Seventy million trillion metric tons are thrown off by the blast. The moon forms from this ejecta. The view from the surface of the Earth - if there was any way to stand there and survive - would have been spectacular for quite some time after that. The (very) new moon probably had a magma ocean that was at least 500 kilometers deep.
In the face of that - knowledge that is the product of thousands of people and millions of hours of work - I simply can't comprehend a mindset that denies that in favor of the worldview developed by shepherds in the stone age.
Maybe Santa Claus will bring this kid some really cool science toys and books to fire up his curiosity and battle the nonsense he is getting at home. Fat chance, huh?
So you blogged about it instead of telling her what really happened.
The bible does not say the moon was created on the forth day, its first referenced when Joseph talks to his brothers. The bible has very few words about how the earth and everything else was created. About the same number as your post, and half of the words are that he is happy with the world as it was created, happy with the animals and maybe most important statement is he happy with man. And he outlines the stewardship of man as a Shepard over the animals. No where is the mention of creating the moon or gravity, or because gravity exists why the moon does not fall down.
You are right the bible did not tell mankind a few thousand years ago how the moon was created or anything else. Although I am not sure that is not a good thing, I would hate for a terrorist to change the entire universe.
So without really knowing anything science came up with the idea that Atlas was holding up a flat earth. That was when there was no conflict between faith and science. After all we have a moon that God did not bother to explain when he created it, It is really not what the book is about, so he must of created some method for the planets not to fall. He made them round, who knew, of course it is fairly obvious (the moon is round).
Anyway, let me see you in 1000 words explain the existence of the universe. Something like: there was a explosion and the universe was filled with matter. part of that matter formed the sun and there was light. Then matter formed the planets and some matter formed the oceans. Life begain, with life all things formed to support life. Fish filled the ocean, animals of both sexes filled the lands and the last most important event (for humans) man walked on the land, more intelligent than all other creatures of the earth. Add and it was good to each event: 1000 words.
Hardly something that truly expresses all the small miraculase details that came together for life to exist. How dam clever it is that DNA holds patterns that allows life to change as the environment changes. Wolves to evolve into dogs just because they are exposed to humans -- http://www.grandin.com/references/genetics.html
The bible is not a book that is useful if you want to know the how and why of something ... never was never will be ... It is a book that says there is a purpose to life.
And people still wonder why Dawkins suggests it is a form of child abuse. Certainly not at the level of smacking the kid with a 2x4, but then again, that would heal in short order. The ignorance sometimes lasts a lifetime.
Isn't the irony rich in that those most rabid about "family values" are also the ones that most mean to damage their children this way via homeschooling regimines chock full of such lessons?
Karl, given your comment I suspect you'll like this story. I was sitting in an airport at the end of a gruesome business trip, and was in a very foul mood. Several of us were scattered across the chairs on the aisle, down which this little blonde girl was skipping. She looked to be about 5, and she was stopping by each person and asking them if they knew about God, and chatting about it before moving on to the next potential convert. Her mother was watching from a short distance, beaming ever so proudly.
Not being in the mood for this in the slightest, and ever annoyed at people who let their lovely children bother those of us who clearly chose not to have our own, I concocted a plot Mom would like none too much.
When the little girl got to me, and asked me if I knew about God, I smiled and said "Yes, I do. Do you know about Santa Claus?" She smiled and nodded her pretty little head. "Good" I said. "They kind of go together don't they?". More nods. "Santa and God, Santa and God, just remember that."
About this time it dawns on Mom that her baby was speaking to an evil evil man, and swooped in, took the little girl by the arm, and whisked her away with a glare and a soft admonition to her about not bothering the man. A gent near enough to hear chuckled, another huffed at me.
"The man" had a mighty laugh, and returned to his nap, secure in the knowledge that the seeds of doubt had been planted, and that one Christmas some 15 years hence, a young girl home from college was going to announce over Christmas dinner, to her stunned Christian family's amazement, that she is an atheist, and she doesn't believe in God or Santa or anything like that any more. And Mom will think of the man in the airport.
Hey, I can dream, can't I?
I've got a great anecdote as an antidote to your experience. We were recently at the park and a boy asked his mother why the sky was blue. She responded by telling him that the sky reflected the color of the oceans. My 6 year-old, having been recently introduced to prisms and pretty much figuring out on his own why the sky was blue during the day and orange at sunrise/sunset, turns to this lady and tells her shes wrong and proceeds to give her a brief lesson on refraction in the language of a 1st grader. To her credit, she was embarrassed but accepting of my sons explanation. She politely thanked him and my son offered to show her son his prism if he wanted to learn more. I was proud as a peacock on several levels. I've got a few other stories about his interactions with our fundie neighbors that are good for some chuckles.
I've had some weird conversation with my six year old when she comes home from kindergarten:
"God is real."
"Who told you that?"
"Silja."
"What about Santa and the Tooth Fairy?"
"They're not real."
"Well what about God?"
"God is real. Silja says so."
Oh well, I suppose I should be happy she's getting exposed to some of the splendid variety of human thought.
Y'all should hear what "fundies" call y'all in our blogs.
Seriously, is this the level of conversation "powered by seed"?
BTW, when my kids were litle, thunderstorms used to scare my kids. So I told them it was God singing with His big booming voice and we'd just start singing along.
Beverly,
Welcome.
Did it ever occur to you that a young child will believe damn near anything you tell them? Why do you feel you have to lie to your child?
I pity your kids.
I went to the Natural History Museum in D.C. before they put up the evolution exhibit-- they only had a small display about the evolution of humans.
As a friend and I were walking by, we overheard a little boy (maybe 6 or 7) ask his mom what evolution was. We both stopped dead in our tracks, prepared to make a scene... when Mom gave him a nice little explanation of evolution.
Lucky, lucky kid :)
Just thought I would share an anecdote along these lines. This kind of thing annoys me to no end. Children aren't as dim as they are often supposed to be, and we should at least try to help them understand the world. And yes, they will remember everything, almost, that you tell them.
My wife's family is pretty churchy, and once we were at her niece's 3rd birthday party. Some aunt had given her a Noah's Ark playset, and asked the girl where rainbows come from, fishing. Allison struggled for a moment to remember and then blurted out, "It's God's promise!!" and beamed with pride. Before I could stop myself, I said, "Really? Actually it has to do with the refraction of light in the water droplets in the atmosphere, which is why you usually see one following a storm, although not always." Everyone stopped talking and glared at me. I glared back and said, "Well, it's the truth." and went for a beer.
Grrrr....
Maybe when the boy learns more about the moon he will also learn to disrepect his elders.
I can understand how they can do it: to protect their certainty in the evil of others, they have to warp their whole worldview to support their own goodness. Teaching their kids about their interpretation of the bible is much better than exposing them to some ungodly science.
Quoth Karl: So you blogged about it instead of telling her what really happened.
Well, yeah....what would have been the point, really, of Mike leaning over with a gentle, "Now, actually, ma'am, that's not quite so"? The woman (obviously a Christian) would have no doubt become angry and then pushed further nonsense into her child's brain along the lines of "Stay away from those bad scientist men," likely destroying any burgeoning interest the kid might have in someday finding out just where the moon really did come from.
Education is extremely important, but so is the timing.
Karl, karl, karl! Turn the other cheek for just a moment while I slip into the ad hominem: Proofread! Let's all try to show some mastery of the language upon which we've agreed.
Now for the ad hoc: Yes, the Bible is a book that purports to explain the purpose of human existence. And that purpose is.....slavery! You may choose to abdicate your own will and judgment to a triumvirate, yet single, God (or Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Tooth Fairy, or Juju Man of the Mountain, et al). Nevermind that you must agree that it was God who gave you your will and judgment in the first place, according to the Bible. Now He wants them back! Believe without thought! Obey without questioning or backtalk! Submit or else it's the whip of eternal flames! That moon is there because I said so! Now give me your money!
Hey, this God guy sounds a lot like my dad. Hmmmmmm.
I always like to offer a competing nonsense. Such as "Crom made the moon from the skull of his enemy," or "Xeno built the moon as a base to imprison Thetans."
And no, Beverly, I don't think I need to hear what fundies call "us". I get enough of that from Fox News and the White House.
Exactly. In this case you say "sorry, that's actually backwards -- the moon created god on the 4th day".
Beverly:
I have an 16 month old daughter. She used to be afraid of Thunderstorms. But we told her they weren't out to get her, and made a game of saying 'boom' when the thunder would hit.
She loves the rain now. She runs to the window and like to shout BOOM!
Lying to your kids isn't the only way to calm them down.
I had a bad experience along these lines. During a curious moment when she was 2 or 3 years old, my daughter inquired about the rain and I explained the water cycle to her. I presented as simple as possible without undermining the concept and she found it very exciting. I took a great deal of pleasure whenever she would explain it to others. But alas, her mother has primary custody and often asks the grandmother who is fairly religious to watch her. A few months later during a visit, it started raining and my daughter looked out the window and said, "Daddy, Grandma says God makes the rain". My wife, who is an educated person, could not understand why this bothered me so much.
But little victories keep me going. My daughter is four now and on a recent visit she began talking about Christmas for some strange reason. Though she has always told me that "God" was pretend like magic and dragons (with almost no prodding in that direction by me) her mother and I had agreed to promote Santa, a decision based on not wanting to argue more than principle I regret to say. In that recent conversation about Christmas, suddenly she pauses with a thoughtful look after talking about flying reindeer, and turns and says, "Dad, is santa real?". I refused to answer her question, telling her instead to think hard about it and come to her own decision. I hoped this would prevent any conflict with the ex-wife about the situation. But I finished by telling my daughter how proud I was for asking the question.
Religion aside, some people seem to think it's "cute" when little kids believe the lies they're told.
When I asked questions, my dad would shove an encyclopedia or dictionary in my face and told me to look it up myself and then to ask him questions to clarify if necessary. If I had asked in public (eg at a museum), he'd tell me to write the question down in my memo pad (I always carried a memo pad because I was a dork) and to look up the answer when we got home.
I think that is how one ought to raise a child concerning questions that have factual answers. Of course, it was awkward having "the sex talk" via an anatomy textbook...
WTF?!