Sometimes you read things in the newspaper that leave you gasping for air. Religious twaddle is a never ending source of this kind of crap, so you'd think I would be immune. The particular pathology I present to you today isn't even near the top of the steaming pile of shit that newspapers print as if they were scraps of coherent thought, but for some reason it hit some kind of resonant frequency in my patience circuit, threatening to tear it apart. It appeared in the North West Arkansas News in Mr. John Terry's (economist/minister/veteran) column, On the Economy:
Not long ago the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette published an interesting article entitled "Passionate Atheists." This caught my attention immediately.My first thought was, "How do you get passionate about nothing " - If no God exists, what is there to get passionate about? Why do professed atheists find it necessary to convert other people to their unbelief, since there is nothing of substance there to convince them of? (North West Arkansas News)
OK, you get this kind of garbage a lot. But Mr. Terry is the compassionate type of conservative and he fears for me. It's the usual kind of stuff: I won't be saved, I am left with no god but myself (thank you for thinking me godlike, Mr. Terry; I'll have to show it to Mrs. R.), I'll face eternity devoid of the god I deny (Mr. Terry's compassion fails him a bit here: we atheists made our bed, so we get to lie in it for an eternity), etc., etc. Yawn.
Mr. Terry also fears for others. After telling us atheists pose no danger to Christianity or any individual Christian, he says a danger of my views is I might persuade others. I think that's a lot more likely than that I'll lie abed for an eternity, but this stuff is par for the course. Yawn again.
But this part woke me up:
The third danger lies in what kind of person the atheist may become when he becomes his own god. If he does not recognize God, he may not recognize any of the restraints that a belief in God generates. Thus, without restraint, he may become a pedophile, a murderer, a thief, or any other kind of a deviant you can think of.
Since religious believers (including the clergy) have probably buggered, robbed and murdered more people in the history of the world in the name of their gods than any thousand sets of atheists, this is a whopper, but it gets printed in a newspaper as if it was the most normal thing in the world. And maybe it is in North West Arkansas. I don't know. I've never visited. But as PZ remarked (and took undeserved shit for it), these kind of "ignorant, deluded, wicked, foolish, or oppressed victims of obsolete mythologies in the United States" are not only all over the place but they have not the slightest trouble getting moronic stuff like this printed in the local newspaper. It's not just North West Arkansas. Freethinkers are indeed surrounded in this country.
The upswing in atheism? Here's how economist/minister/veteran Terry explains it:
Why are atheists coming out of the "closet" now? Simple. The country has become so secularized, and has adopted an ? anything goes? attitude, so deviants of any nature now feel it is safe to declare themselves. Also, led by many prominent universities, it has now become "politically correct" for people to try to be "different." [followed by the obligatory quotations from Scripture, omitted on the grounds of protecting the reader's sanity]
I'll say it's a simple explanation. Simple as in Simpleton.
Please don't attack me for saying I think all religious people are simpletons or as stupid as this guy. I'll give you a counterexample in a minute. But it is factually accurate, I believe, to say that this is the stuff of everyday discourse in this country when it comes to religion. We are not just surrounded. We are submerged and gasping for air.
There are religious people who are confronting the atheist revival in a clear-eyed way. Because they are believers doesn't mean they shut down every neuron not used to maintain vital functions like this guy. Consider Baptist minister James Evans, a syndicated columnist writing in The Decatur [Illinois] Daily. The column is too long to quote in its entirety without violating Fair Use conditions, but you can take a look at the link to satisfy yourself I haven't taken him out of context. After taking note of the popularity of the several books on atheism, Evans asks what's going on:
Why this sudden interest in atheism?
Part of the answer, according to Sam Harris and others, is the rise of militant Muslim fundamentalism. In his book "The End of Faith," Harris quotes long passages from the Quran arguing that anyone who takes those selected words literally, and seriously, has no choice but to be at war with the rational world.
For Harris, fundamentalist Muslims and Christians are but two different sides of the same coin. Each serves as examples of why the world would be better off if there was "an end to faith."
Others believe atheism is on the rise because of the secular influence of American culture. Dennis Prager, writing at Townhall.com, makes the case that "from elementary school to graduate school, only one way of looking at the world - the secular - is presented." Some truth may be in that statement, but that is precisely what the framers of the U.S. Constitution had in mind. They had seen the disastrous results of state-supported religion and official orthodoxies mingled with civic duty in Europe and wanted none of it for America.
The Constitution establishes a secular society but with a guarantee of religious freedom for all. (Rev. James Evans, Decatur Daily)
All true. But here's the part I liked best:
We must also be willing to admit that some of this turning away from religion may be a form of running away.
The aggressive attacks on science from many quarters of the faith community have left some people feeling great resentment toward faith.
It could be that certain expressions of faith have made God too small to be embraced by those who experience the universe as vast and great.
A person who looks at the universe through the Hubble telescope is going to have trouble taking the first two chapters of Genesis literally. And when told that being faithful to God requires such belief, unbelief may feel like the only option.
The most interesting thing about this piece is that it ends there. The Reverend Evans presents no counterarguments. He just reports what he sees.
Seeing is believing, so the old saw goes. But can Believing survive Seeing?
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Hmm, typical for this area of the country. I live in this area, and I see this stuff all of the time in the local newspapers. I don't worry about it too much. I probably should, though.
On another note, I am a known contributor to the blogs (minor contributor), and so I will remain anonymous in this post. That being said, try being an atheist in Alcoholics Anonymous in this area. The whole AA bit is the recovering alcoholic trying to rationally discover the truth of who he or she is - "digesting large chunks of truth about yourself". A large part of that effort is directed toward "God as we understand him." The operational word here is "understanding" and is forthrightly put as a rational, considered approach to spirituality as a component of recovery as put forth in "The Big Book". The 12 steps are wholly oriented toward this.
Frankly, most of the INDIVIDUAL AA members appear to miss this point. Still, I try to conduct myself gracefully in this.
"Another Friend of Bill's"
Good Post Revere - as a side note, when I read Dawkins' latest book on religion and Harris' book mentioned in the post, I noted one striking thing. They came down pretty hard on Christianity and the Muslim faith - I agreed with all they wrote. But they had little to say about the Jewish faith - a token note here and there. Hmmm perhaps it is hard to get published a book that might say anything about the atrocities the Jews are committing right now.
K: You are completely correct. Criticizing Judaism (I am a Jewish atheist, BTW) is the third rail in American culture. You can sometimes do it if you criticize other religions in the same breath, but even then you have to be prepared to take a lot of crap. Judaism gets an (undeserved) pass. But it's all the same load of bullshit.
Can believing survive seeing? We'll never know. The Gods have stopped doing personal appearances since cameras replaced credulous scribes.
John Terry writes:
You need to believe in a god in order to be restrained? Really? I thought it was personal morality that checked behaviour, and since when were sky fairies the only source of moral codes? I have much more trust in and respect for someone who acts by a personal moral code for its own sake and the sake of others rather than for someone who acts blindly in accordance with a cult ideology and in fear of some ultimate punishment.
John Terry writes:
We are all born innocent and only become racists through learning. We have arguably remediated that destructive social problem by confronting the issue publicly. Similarly, we are all born atheists and are now confronting the social conditioning of the religious cults. With success, we can regain our basic humanity.
Hold on Mr. Terry. While Revere might get into a slump every now and then, he certainly and those people that are atheists arent going as a rule to slide into madness and become pedophiles. Indeed, they are more apt to follow the law than most and especially Christians/Muslims.
I know a lot of them. They are generally brighter than your average "My Preacher says" light bulbs and they think. Many think very hard about what and who they are. Thats not not something I can say for my Christian brethren in many, many cases. I for one believe, I just came to a different conclusion than Revere on the personal Epiphany day.
To assert that atheists will become something evil is ridiculous. "Thus, without restraint, he may become a pedophile, a murderer, a thief, or any other kind of a deviant you can think of."
Lately, I havent seen any of my non-believing brethren doing that. Its them "Christians" for the better part. Is it because of percentage of population that Revere and others get my blessing? Maybe, I doubt that the NCIC lists their criminals by religious beliefs. Might have to as the Muslims keep blowing things up. But until then I'll assert this. Just because a Preacher says something it isnt God. My priest now Bishop that I was the altar boy for tells it like this as I hit him on the email this morning.
"I get this question a lot.
I have many, many friends that are atheists and just by association people assume that they are Godless because they must believe in the Devil or that he has sway over them.
Thats reasonable and by that same association I often get the "Why are you associating with these "people?" What people I say? Are you better than they are because of faith? That in the less than strictest sense is a sin is what I tell them. Watch it.
In that I simply point out that when Jesus walked the land that he didnt assert anything other than love of your fellow man and to do onto others as you would have them do onto you. Christians were persecuted and slowly, inexorably the change came of Judeo/Christian law. Those same people for starts should get a pass because while they dont believe, they do generally adhere to the law and the law in its most basic form which was and is the Ten Commandments is of God.
Your friend Revere is likely very principled and outgoing and is due the respect of his beliefs. Be very happy that you are not in the same position in Spain only a few hundred years ago of not adherance to the line. Failure to believe what you were told was grounds for garrotment, the rack, hanging, and burning at the stake. They were equal opportunity murderers. Those that believed and those that didnt. Political prisoners were heretics and dealt with accordingly.
Confession purged the soul of course and then you were happily taken down after that and burned at the stake.
There shall come amongst you many false prophets -Peter, Chapter 2 in the first. I spill my thoughts on Sundays and to anyone who will listen, but I dont and wont threaten them with eternal damnation. Its not my decision, if it were I wouldnt anyway.
My suggestion is that you should remember that if you believe that anything that is of God is truth, and anything that isnt is false. If Jesus was just an extraordinary man, then that is the assertion of some. Even Revere would say he might have been a great magician. However, if he was the Son of God then all things he stated are trurth. Can someone enter heaven for not believing that Jesus was the Son but being adherent to the law? I think so. The laws of man are based in the laws of God. Remember it comes from the Ten Commandments.
For someone to say that an atheist is going to become a pedophile, criminal or other such thing is the moving of an agenda. It is about control of the minds of people and that is patently wrong. Tell your friend Revere he has my support to believe whatever he wants and that I doubt that he is currently a pedophile, murderer, thief or deviant.
As of late though that seems to have an large clientele which includes the clergy that does believe. "
Well Revere I think that about covers it.
> A person who looks at the universe through the Hubble ...
What _really_ changes people is seeing the Earth from space.
That's why the climate satellites are being defunded.
That's why Triana has sat in a warehouse for years, never scheduled for launch --- the first and only satellite designed and built that would have provided a continuous full daylight view of the Earth, and a measure of Earth's albedo, from the Lagrange point between Earth and Sun.
It wasn't just the definitive measurement available --- long described as needed science to understand climate change -- that scared the crap artists.
It was the perspective it would have provided -- a high resolution video of Earth, live, all the time.
We know people with the chance will watch Earth. Nothing else fascinates people like this.
Can't have it available. Nope.
Revere:
Mark 9:47:
llewlly: I suppose this is the meaning of blind faith.
Well, I guess I'd better watch my step so I don't suddenly become a "murderer, pedophile, thief" or any other sundry deviant that may threaten society.
I suffered a couple of years in NW Arkansas (and now live in what I call "Arkansas of the north"). Out of consideration for the few nice, rational people I met there, I won't go into the deviant behavior I ran into other than mentioning how on trips to various stores I was often sent on my way with, "Why don't you go home, you damn yankee!" I'm sure they were good Christians, since CHURCH was the dominant form of entertainment. Perhaps I'm wrong in my assumption, however, maybe THEY were atheists!
Religion has, for far too long, been an excuse for horrific cruelties perpetrated on innocent, human and non-human victims. It's way past the time that we should have "grown up" and gone beyond our "animal nature" and become "human." There is NO excuse for cruelty.
"why don't you go home, you damn yankee"
it was a very Bible Belt community where I heard the following joke, a few weeks after arriving to take a job there -
"A yankee comes down, looks around, and goes home. A damn yankee doesn't go home soon enough."
Several years later I finally moved, to approximately my current locale, a place that combines Southern efficiency and Northern charm
Great post!!
No, if hell is any possibility at all surely those who have feigned goodness to asskiss his almighty's will be the first to burn. Seriously, if you're into a creator story, one who is invested personally, still, then why not one who respects integrity, logic, and those who work with the scraps we were given.
Hitchens has been an exception here; I've heard him criticize Judaism pretty openly. He's obviously not a fan of any faith, but he pulls no punches with regards to Judaism.
But I agree with the general idea. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that secular, rather than religious, Judaism is so common, that it becomes difficult to criticize one (Genesis is literally true; the exodus literally happened; Deuteronomy is to be observed) without seeming to criticize the other.
There is no real counterpart to secular Judaism in any of the other faiths. Are there secular Christians? That is, Christians who do not accept the divinity of Christ or the literal existence of the god of the New Testament? I would argue that even if there are, the proportion of those who identify as 'Christian' who do not believe in these things is extremely small, especially in comparison to the number of secular (read: atheist) Jews.
I take this little bitch John Terry out to the woodshed in my own response, which I sent in as a letter to the editor and have posted at the Atheist Experience blog, here.
Martin; Nice one.
This has about as much to do with the economy as tying my shoes does (considering he didn't try and relate the topic to economics whatsoever). Why does he mention it, and the fact that he's an economist?
@mistah charley: The way I heard it, a damn Yankee stays for good.
Variation: "I didn't know that 'damn Yankee' was two words."
Rev. James Evans:
"It could be that certain expressions of faith have made God too small to be embraced by those who experience the universe as vast and great."
If I had ever had any feeling or belief in religion in my life, I'd have great faith for this statement. I'm surprised so many fundies don't get this. I reject the fundies' god simply because he is way "too small" for the world.
Of course, if I had ever had any feeling of belief, I'd consider seeing the vastness of the world as a stupid reason to forgo faith. I'd merely figure god must be "far bigger" than the narrow minded preachers say.
Which make me think the beliefs of the fundies, creationists, and new earthers are truly some of the must stupid beliefs I've ever come across. How can anyone choose to belief in such a tiny and small he chooses to bubble the world in a 7000 year and mile radius and can't keep the remaining 10+ billion years and light year radius out.
Rev. James again:
"A person who looks at the universe through the Hubble telescope is going to have trouble taking the first two chapters of Genesis literally. And when told that being faithful to God requires such belief, unbelief may feel like the only option."
Revere:
"The most interesting thing about this piece is that it ends there. The Reverend Evans presents no counterarguments."
Hmmm, I'd assume he considers the statement rhetorical. He isn't writing for athiests and attempting to convert them. He is writing about athiests and explaining the "rise" in "new athiesm". I think his point to the faithful is, that in looking looking for cause of the rise in un-belief we (I mean they, the faithful) shouldn't blaim some outside evil permissiveness but look out our (I mean, them) selves and their small-mindedness.
The last statement strongly implies he doesn't take the first two chapters of Genesis literally and doesn't think Christian should. As for a counter argument, well, I can't presume to guess what his would be but I presume it would involve god being much more vast than the small god who favored a small dessert people, hates homosexuals with a passion, likes drinking with his buddy G.W. Bush (but is to self-absorbed to bother learning the heilich manuver) and wants nothing to do with anything more than 7000 miles away or 7000 years ago or having more than 7 years of education.