Freethinker Sunday Sermonette: stimulating bullshit

It's the long weekend of the stimulus watch. The fate of the nation hangs in the balance (well, maybe just the fate of my 401K, but I'd like to stop working before I'm 92). Meanwhile a few Republicans and some Democrats, who may as well be Republicans (Ben Nelson representing Nebraska, Joe Lieberman, representing the insurance and pharmaceutical industries), are working hard to empty it of things that would create jobs and provide benefit and instead to stuff it with things that will create wealth for their cronies. A leader of this gang of irresponsible ideologues, Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine, was apparently quite proud of the fact she personally got pandemic flu zeroed out. OK. All that would do is strengthen health departments. Maybe not enough jobs? How about building and repairing schools? Wouldn't that put people immediately back to work doing something that's desperately needed? If you think that, you just don't get the Big Picture:.

Democrats in Congress have declared war on prayer, say conservative groups who object to a provision in the stimulus bill that was passed by the House of Representatives last week.

The provision bans money designated for school renovation from being spent on facilities that allow "religious worship." It has ignited a fury among critics who say it violates the First Amendment and is an attempt to prevent religious practice in schools.

According to the bill, which the Democratic-controlled House passed despite unanimous Republican opposition, funds are prohibited from being used for the "modernization, renovation, or repair" of facilities that allow "sectarian instruction, religious worship or a school or department of divinity."

Critics say that could include public schools that permit religious groups to meet on campus. The House provided $20 billion for the infrastructure improvements, of which $6 billion would go to higher education facilities where the limitations would be applied. (Fox News)

The level of bullshit here is evident when you realize this has been in the law since 1972, throughout the terms of Evangelical President Jimmy Carter, right winger Ronald Reagan and both Bush whack jobs. None asked to have anything done about it and it sure didn't hurt religion in the last eight years (I can't say the same about what religion did to the country). Still, that doesn't stop the wackaloons at the Traditional Values Coalition from accusing Obama of using the stimulus plan as a subterfuge to strike a blow against God:

"The economic crisis is being used as a pretext to curb religious liberty at institutions of higher learning," said Executive Director Andrea Lafferty.

From our perspective it's unfortunate the Obama administration isn't using the stimulus bill to stop wasteful spending for religious purposes. That would be Change I could believe in.

Instead I just keep getting more Prayer Breakfasts.

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Racheal Maddow mentioned that on her show on Friday. To me it is just more distraction from what is really happening.I guess they also took out the increase in food stamps which is said that for every dollar spent means 1.73 for the economy. These republicans are so used to helping the CEO's they can't even tolerate anything helping anyone else.

Which one you prefer? Revere. Getting more Prayer Breakfasts, or visiting an elementary school to get fresh air? Or at the Kennedy Center?

Gibbs told the reporters, Obama's idea of a crazy day is to take a long walk in solitude and isolation.

Wish that Camp David has provided the long walk.

Paiwan, what are you trying to say? Your post is essentially gibberish with question marks.

Reveres, how about a permanent Wall of Shame for Politicians intent on pulling our chains?

REVERE-The entire bad loans of the entire industry could have been bought up for 150 billion dollars..Thats it, en toto. We are now on just shy of 1.4 trillion dollars of spending already. They used the money that was given not to correct the situations but for mergers and acquisitions. Congress blew it again. There wasnt any money that was never under Democrats control for spending. Bush went along with it to act as caretaker til Obama took over. Okay, now the bum is going to have to perform.

There is nothing but PORK in this spending package and if they started tomorrow letting contracts it would take between 3 and 5 years for it to hit the economy. Its a PAYOFF for Democrat supporters. 100 million to send to foreign countries for abortions is going to stimulate our economy HOW? What about another 150 million for contraceptives and STD transmission. I guess if you are screwing then you need to first know not how to make babies, but if you get it wrong the government is going to pay for you to learn. Finally when you get it completely wrong and you get popped by someone with HIV status, we will have told you so because we paid for you to learn about that too.

So then we give them yet another subsidy. There are people who are literally stating that the Obama administration is going to pay their home loans that they should have never been allowed to get in the first place. Equality for all means only that you should have the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Nothing in the constitution that says this stuff will be provided to you.

This is a full blown and worse return to the Carter Administration. We are going now to accelerate towards the end of this nation and its going to be done with a socialist President and a Socialist Congress.

For you morons who dont get it. Paying for food stamps if someone is able bodied is pure unmitigated bullshit. So is a "living wage". The US has regulated itself into a corner. Its not about the corporations because THEY provide the jobs. They are entities unto themselves and what they do is legal. So will be socialist policies. But then, as the corporations cull and cull more the socialist welfare rolls are going to grow and grow. WE are going to be in deep, deep shit in under two years and regardless of what you think, this is only going to get worse because we ARE spending so much money on welfare and pork projects. Kind of like bows and arrow manufacturer bailouts from the last one.

The goddamn printing press is not going to solve the problem. You better hope they start drilling tomorrow else in two years its 500 dollar a barrel oil maybe... 200 for sure and maybe more. Pick a number above 200 and you'll be right. Its all about the inflation and when government spends inflation rises and then GENERALLY within 2 years the interest rate climbs about 2 points per 1/2 trillion of total government spending. We are going to do EXACTLY what got us into trouble in the first place. Amd that is creating a comfort zone for the poor.

Here is a shocker... There are currently 55 TRILLION DOLLARS OF UNFUNDED MANDATES OUT THERE! How in hell are our kids going to pay for that? Better we just default on the loans across the board and start over.

As for Obama, welcome to the party pal.

Now you have to perform rather than make speeches that promised the world to everyone.

Change we can believe in? Bullshit. More like changing one group of assholes for another group of assholes. At least one group tried to stop the disaster before it happened and it wasnt Democrats. All of us Republicans are racists when we say anything against the Messiah and his minions.

Wonder if anyone still thinks it might not have been a good idea to re-regulate the banks and Freddie/Fannie? The only Democrat that proposed THAT was W.J. Clinton.

Even HE got it.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 08 Feb 2009 #permalink

Randy: They can take my money and use it to build schools, repair bridges, make health departments run well again any time they want. I wish they wouldn't send it to Iraq or Afghanistan, which is a total waste of money, doing no one any good. But in deference to your strong feelings, I hope they don't create any jobs in TN or repair any berms or help any of your fellow citizens. I would hate to have you be complicit in what you think is something wrong. Most of the rest of us think that creating jobs is a good thing and killing people is a bad thing but each to his own. meanwhile I hope they remove all the military pork from the budget and spend money on things that make sense. I'm not worried about my job but I am terrified for my son in law and daughter who, if he loses his job, won't have any health insurance for themselves or their two babies.

Ranting about Obama and socialism isn't very helpful. How would you solve this crisis? Tax cuts? LOL.

It might work Revere if there was ANYTHING in it that bill that would do just that. It has only about 3% thats NOT pork. What is with you? It doesnt matter where the spending is. 100 million for abortions in underdeveloped countries? Are you nutz? Forget the wrongness of it. Take it on costs... This is productive for WHOM?

COMPLICIT? You are being complicit in the destruction of the country is what YOU are being. Your massive mandated healthcare program in your state is bankrupting company after company...The states numbers not mine. Being fined because you dont provide healthcare to your employees is bullshit. Time for a challenge in court. In fact it is. Its better to just fire them...... Cheaper certainly as your little state keeps requiring more and more benefits. Been in for two years and the toilet is flushing.

Waste of money to keep the enemy occupied in other countries Revere? You wont have any of that stuff you tout such as healthcare, or bridges or anything of the such.
Dont need roads and bridges unless there are people driving on them now do we? You get that from people going to work.

Oh, lets go green and subsidize an industry that is already being subsidized. Lets create a power grid to move power from out West where the wind blows and the sun shines right? It aint going to happen. The environmental impact statements for ONE power line that cut through our area took 5 years. Letit start cutting up the areas where the deer and the antelope play and you greenies are screwed. Probably didnt know that an area the size of Colorado would be needed to power New York City during the daytime? Hmmm..... What about night? So that means COAL PLANTS! Sorry reality just sucks doesnt it? Hey, how bout them nuke plants.... even better.

Revere, if someone pops a nuke over Los Angeles, Boston or New York. Especially New York then it will render your arguments moot. EN TOTO! The radicals know that if they get New York, they get the US. You disagree of course. We have seen nothing but decline in the last 8 years and its because we have no industry...too dirty. We have no car manufacturing...cant compete because of the unions. We have no electricity.... fucks with the spotted owls or something like it. We have no banking system....gone..Democrats failed to regulate when asked by Republican racists. BTW Barney has a new dress for Easter.

Cutting taxes? Lets take it it tacks. I would cut social spending to bare bones. Healthcare for ONLY the people that are unable to work and children to the age of 18 if their parents cant afford it. Jesus H. Christ Revere theres a government program out to provide cell phones to those making less than 28,000 a year. That is pure unmitigated bullshit and pork. The rabbit ears converter box. 150 million pal. Roads and bridges... Shit you escoriated Palin because they wanted to build a bridge to the airport instead of using a ferry. Me, I would have moved the airport. Duh, cheaper, but the idea is sound. It would create JOBS... we aint gonna get them from roads and bridges.

Then its a RANT you say about Obama and his clenching teeth and knuckle cracking he was doing yesterday. Again, bullshit. He wants to take tax money and JUST GIVE it to people... And then what, print more. Nationalize the banks too while you are at it. Sounds like pure communism now. How about was a DEMOCRAT CONGRESS that got us into this mess. They IGNORED that they were warned and then when it happened they tried to blame it on Bush. Well old son, you Dems/left leaners/socialists/progressives and Communists are up to your necks in it now and well you got the ball and you are flubbing it to the nth degree. Tax money payoffs at a time when we need to cut spending to establish the bottom and let taxes turn this thing around. NOT more spending.

At least the Republicans use contractors and bid their spending out and we have something for something. The Democrats are just going to give it to people like a popsicle. It will make them feel good for about five minutes and then they will want more.

WE WON!...... See how long that lasts. The backlash is starting an as we know it wont change one damned thing, the unemployment rate is going to rise like a rocket and it will stay there. Obama touting that he was handed one is fine. He was, but it was of the Dems making.

I bet that Obama's records suddenly get released when the Dems see their asses sliding back down the pole or they'll find some illegality somewhere along the way. (Rezko) and once again it will be government by impeachment. The turmoil that this country is in yes could be ended in a day. NO TAX INCREASES OF ANY KINDS FOR FIVE YEARS... NO CAPITAL GAINS TAXES AT ALL. Yeah and that means all of those rich assed companies that ginned the jobs for the last 25 years. Some needed regulation... When asked for it, the Dems called the Republicans racists. Of course we know that Freddie and Fannie were such sweeping successes in the last three years right?

No one is going to spend capital Revere especially if its going to be taxed by the Obamanation for giveaways. What capital we have is moving off shore as fast as they can take it right now. But you live in that little dream world where healthcare is everything and everyone is all taken care of.... But none of those people who have none of these things work. Never have, never will. They will if we cut welfare off at the knees. But by then it will be pure supply side economics.

The idea of paying some bozo's house note is pure crap. I dont want to pay their electric bills. I would if they were 65 or older and indigent and there was no other way. But thats not the case now is it? We are talking about able bodied people that wont work because welfare pays better. Ever looked at how much a welfare recipient gets every month in your state? Check and then put the number up. But you wont. Everyone here should check. Hey, but you dont need to work... the government is going to take care of you...

New York....
"On Sunday, Cockfield and administration officials also announced Patersonâs budget proposal will include a call for an increase in the welfare grant beginning in 2010, the first since 1990; changes to make more poor New Yorkers eligible for government-subsidized health care; and more services for returning veterans."

MORE people eligible?

New York is a prime example of a welfare state. Their idiot governor has come up with taxes for everything. Your state in particular is imploding faster than they can count the drop in employment and tax revenues (Fortune Magazine). Their big idea? Not to give a break to the guys trying to make ends meet by laying people off of the payrolls. Nope, raise taxes. Not cut services. Nope, raise taxes. MOST of the money in every state already goes for social programs. But I am supposed to ignore that. Its socialism, we can do no wrong.

And by the way, Tennessee is going to finish the next year with a bit of surplus because the one Democrat I ever voted for who is a conservative one, started in JULY of this past year and eased people into early retirements, 35 hour work weeks and lunchtime work. Meaning they got off at three with a 15 minute break for lunchtime. The employees loved it.

But, we have those other employees... You know, the government welfare handouts that Obama and the pork bill want to increase by 33%! Yeah, you dont make enough to pay your house note? Thats okay, we are going to increase your welfare line of credit... It of course it is a credit line that is written on paper, and we have a lot of paper. Each time we give you paper it makes the paper we have already more worthless, but still we have lots and lots of paper. Now ink, thats made from oil and its very expensive or will be in two years as oil slips up to 100 a barrel and higher. But nyah, we are the goverment and we are going to add to the 55 trillion and forget the long term for the near term. We are going to create a false bottom that will fall apart in two years... Then what?

A Revere Utopia of course... We will just spend some more and print more paper.


By M.Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 08 Feb 2009 #permalink

Randy: We'll put people back to work. But I hope not in TN. I don't want you to be complicit. Of course you are already complicit in bankrupting us (Afghanistan, Iraq). Thanks for that. A nuke over LA? LOL. People dying from lack of medical care. Not so funny. Meanwhile, we'll build some schools and repair some bridges and put people back to work. But not in TN I hope. That would be wrong. Anyway, you've got lots of work for them already, cleaning up the mess TVA left. But please stop wasting my money in Iraq. You've electrocuted enough soldiers there.

Digging our way out of a hole that we stand in is a stupid paradox but quite relevant to our current predicament. MRK rants like a red-blooded, Tennessee Republican but sometimes his rants have real merit between the lines. MRK is outraged at reckless spending at Capitol Hill. MRK is enraged at taxes stealing his earned wealth to go to someone other than him. MRK is stunned that few others see a problem with the Government taking his (and your's) money to finance the largest debts in the history of the USA. I am, too.

Handing out money to failed businesses (GM, Ford, AIG, Lehman Brothers, CitiGroup, WaMu, BofA, MorganChase, Merril Lynch, etc) has a great moral hazard--that these same institutions will repeat their detrimental errors. Many have spent bailout money (AKA mine and your money) on frivilous (but expensive) luxury items and vacations. A homebuyer who didn't read his lease is not my responsibility. A bank loan defaulted on that does not have my name on it is also not my responsibility. A full car lot with discounts up to 80% off is still not enticing me to buy a car. Americans spending more than they earn will fail but somehow I learned not to spend more than I earn. However, all these failures of the market are my problem, though not my responsibility, because millions of my fellow citizens have failed.

Why did they fail? Why have Americans bought more on credit than can be afforded? Why did so many buy risky mortgages? Regardless of the answers, I am still responsible for only one person: me. The Government does not owe me a house, a car, or even a 401(k). The Goverment owes me the individual liberty to succeed by my merit or fail by my flaws. If I succeed, I am fully entitled to the fruits of my labor. If I fail, it is not the responsibility of others to suffer because of it. The greatest shame, as I feel it to be, for my USA today is a collective belief that when personal failures are brought to light, collectively we must pay.

My state is bankrupt as of this month. California actually applied for a bailout to the US Government last year. Whose state should I take from first, hmm? I have never been to Tenessee so maybe we should take from MRK because I don't know him personally and thus won't have any attachment? I don't like Sarah Palin so Alaska should buy out CA debt. Kentucky uses the same currency? I never would have guessed it but, sure, let's take some of it, too! I also feel sarcastically entitled to a personal bailout of some thousands of dollars just because that's so small of a number hardly anyone would miss it.

CAP; Except a lot of people who did nothing wrong are being hurt by your philosophy of not interfering. I don't want any of my money going to you either, You can take care of yourself. So don't ask for any and don't use any.

Doesnt matter. I think this one is going to do us. Economic collapse in two years when these people have their hands out and then I can assure you completely that the nut cutting is going to start.

Sicko? More like Sucko! This is even worse than the spending under Carter and quite frankly I think that the next T-bill and bond auctions are going to go poorly. We have no manufacturing, no GDP right now. The GNP is down by a whopping 1/3rd and sliding. This is going to get much, much worse and then what? More spending. Cant build dams and roads Revere and expect that this is going to work out. I have been up reading the "compromise " bill. It reads like a who's who on getting something for nothing. Hey with the Republicans at least we got Guantanamo and Saddam. Now theres something for you thats tangible. Wait till you get your tax bill on this one. I put it that they will first have to raise SS payments, then tax them and I mean next year to accommodate the inflation thats going to kick in.

Great. You paid it in as a tax, then when you get it back... They tax it again.

Your 401K? Sheyit forget it. This has teeth in it for next year too. They have given the treasury dept. all sorts of new legalities... Including nationalization being one of them... You probably didnt know that. But your new Democrat/progressive/liberal/socialist/Communist government has given the authority for the treasury to nationalize those for "safekeeping."

Sure sounds like a takeover to me...... Orchestrated to keep McCain out, or if he did get in to bust him wide open once in. Hmmmm.......?

Not interferring? Shit Revere, they didnt interfere enough. When a republican shows up in congress and tells you that there is a disaster in the making in a federal agency and you dont regulate them, then its your fault. Thats a new yellow carpetbagging dress for Barney by the way... It will be paid for by taxpayers and his supporters.

Hey dammit. I didnt do anything wrong. I guess that 23,000 I sent in back last April just wasnt enough to keep the goddamn thing afloat. Then they tagged me for another 2,000 and change.. How very, very nice.

This economy is going to be supported by tax money... Bottom line. When the money mill turns over the existing money will be worthless and the new stuff even more worthless. Hows this? What do we do if those Arabs say we want gold instead of your worthless paper?

You better start thinking about that. Our money is pegged against other foreign currencies and they ALL suck. We all line up at the pump over there and we got rocket scientist Dems in charge of ecology screaming global warming when the Great Lakes are starting to freeze over, Baffin Bay and Hudson Bay are and the ice extends out of the Arctic almost to Atka... But hey, dont you DARE drill to preserve the US. You might fuck up Al Gores apple cart.

Cant drill, cant mine, cant work, cant afford the labor costs because some union wants you to pay a huge wage. Hey anyone remember I said that when they raised the min wage we were going to be in trouble? Recall that? That hit in July and the whole thing started coming apart. WE cant do anything but pay taxes and the commode is going to flush boys and girls...The music is stopping and the chairs are being jerked up. Of course it would NEVER occur to a Democrat to just turn around and cut taxes instead of all this crap... Why? Because they lose control is why. The control us through the taxation system... You dont like it? We will send the IRS to your door....

Thats it. Game over. In a year it will be worse and Revere/Obamanation will be wanting more spending, "To take care of the people who did nothing wrong." There will be more of them then.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 08 Feb 2009 #permalink

"You better hope they start drilling tomorrow else in two years its 500 dollar a barrel oil maybe... 200 for sure and maybe more. Pick a number above 200 and you'll be right."

Don't be panic. Have you sensed that the fossil fuel producers nowadays have become humble? Why? Alternative energies, especially solar energy is going to work very well. First Solar, the largest manufacturer of thin panels, claims that its products will generate electricity in sunny countries as cheap as large power stations by 2012.

So, Europe could get most of its electricity from plants in Sahara desert. The technology is advancing fast for the long-distance power transmission.

Moreover, car batteries-latest lithium-similar to the ones in your laptop has proved urban delivery van has a range of over 150 Km, accelerates to 110Kph and has running costs of just about US$0.02 per km. Car price is still expensive now, but with mass production it will come down. The Tesla electric car designed by Lotus in Norfolk, England amazes all those who experience its awesome performance. Clean energy, no carbon problem.

The history is in the side of Obama energy policy. The world in fact appreciates the pro-activity and would like to work on that. 2012 not too far!

"Your post is essentially gibberish with question marks."

Damien, you are curious about my gibberish remarks. OK, let me explain to you: as a foreigner, I don't attach to any party, as I sat comfortably in a tropical beach reading Paul Krugman's remark on Obama's wishful bipartisan and related frustration. Krugman said, "Not one Republican voted for the House version of the stimulus plan."

When the whole world now have worked very hard to stimuli the economy, nearly every country-small and big ⦠We all look up the world leader- the US could bring something encouraging.

My goodness, the ball now is on the conservatives' hand, by using Krugman's word- let them define the debate. Krugmanâs advice: the scale and scope of the plan must be much larger than this plan. He has his points based on his proven record.

I guessed that Revereâs Breakfast Prayers was sarcastic; I nearly agreed with it. I thought that Revere has the point: behavior is more important than what your religion claims.

"So don't ask for any and don't use any."

Then, there is no evolution. The Biologist knows ecosystem.

Paiwan, you have been reading too much press. The Prius gets 18 miles to a gallon when the air conditioner is on. There isnt an 18 wheeler version that has been able to do anything more than maybe a city drive. Fedex tried it and dumped it in six months. Lithium/ion? Total battery metal available has estimated reserves that are enough to power the cars in about 1/2 of California. Ever seen one of the fires they cause?

Its not going to change anything Paiwan. Its going to RAISE the electric rates because the costs involved with Solar alone are a disaster. Then there is the area... All of these greenies get pissed off about oil and their derricks standing high above the plains. Ever been to a wind farm? A solar operation takes about 100,000 gallons of clean water....A DAY for a small town of 70,000. Try that on a city the size of New York.

Water requirements alone are going to limit where they can put them. They also can dewater acquifers in the west and collapse them. Oh, I am all for sustainable energy but let the marketplace define the operations. Wind farms are dangerous to birds and people. The blades shatter off. They dont work when its colder than about 18 F. and Mr. Green Machine...Teddy Kennedy doesnt want them out on the water where it will screw with his view... NIMBY... Not in my back yard!

The grid to transmit whatever they produce is going to cost billions and its a pork barrel scheme. Its NOT going to generate electricity at all due to voltage fall off from resistance. It will raise the cost of electricity to the point where its easier to shift to something else locally. They will scar the landscape with transmission towers, wind farms and big bright shiny things that reflect the sun back into space. 8 MILLION acres to power just NYC during the daytime. Wheres the juice going to come from at night...The Sahara? Yeah, right.

You always are pretty calm and informed here Pai... Check it out and you'll find out that green isnt going to feed the need. Right now... I see a lot of dead people unless they drill and its not going to be from famine. It will be over oil.

As for this budget...It will triple due to cost overruns in all of these projects and then in a couple of years when the money runs out, they will want more and then the deficit takes us out. You own paper money? Better be running out to buy gold and silver.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 09 Feb 2009 #permalink

The Tesla electric car designed by Lotus in Norfolk, England amazes all those who experience its awesome performance. Clean energy, no carbon problem.

Don't get me wrong, the Tesla is an engineering marvel, but to an auto enthusiast it does lack one thing: a mean, snarly engine note that you get in a vintage American muscle car, a bi-turbo V12 Mercedes, or a finely-tuned Ferrari V8. I guess we'll all have to get used to it, because I agree that in a few years oil will be pretty damn expensive.

While I believe we need "TA" .......

Tell me something I don't know for heaven's sake !! (job loss). We are going through the worst Economic crisis ever .... Tell me something I don't know for heaven's sake !

Nice eye make-up Obama at your Presidential News conference.

It is a total meltdown, but money has already been spent that absolutely did nothing to stop the drop. That alone just saddled each child in America with having to back stop as a taxpayer some one trillion dollars. I say them because the older generation is going to be going in the next 30 years. Then we have the latest round at give or take another 750 billion. And then the next great step is back stopping the FDIC/FSLIC/FRTC, plus ANOTHER TRILLION POINT 7 THIS YEAR, followed by a second round of spending in two years.

But it does NOTHING but create debt that no one is going to buy. We have been shaken and stirred by the disaster on Wall Street. Obama as usual isnt convincing anyone. The amount of debt that is out there in his proposal is that the PEOPLE back stop people who shouldnt do anything but file a bankruptcy. Its very simple. Why in the goddamn hell should I be responsible for someone else? He is going to try to backdoor UHC and take control of the healthcare system, he is going to take control of the banks with your money, he is going to take control of the media with his legislators, and finally they will come for you when you revolt....

There is little or nothing in this package he proposes that will stabilize anyone but his political payoff buddies. It is about 18 times what we have spent to date in Iraq and Afghanistan and we are supposed to just BITE? Not a goddamn chance.

If this passes I have advised my employees that they will be let go one by one in the next 3 months. The market no longer determines the game, Obama and the Congress do. Enjoy the control.

Want to be what would happen if the election were held today now that the tigers stripes can be seen up close and personal. I wonder if that Rasmussen poll that says 73% of the people are against the bailouts... There will be no end to it.

We are going to bailout cities, states, counties, companies, and now....Parts producers in Mexico.... 250 BILLION DOLLARS. Now theres a place that needs abortion. Send them 100 million.

We are so fucked its unbelievable and Revere actually thinks that this is going to WORK?

And the premise from Revere was that "the people who did nothing wrong" were being hurt... How about signing onto a dotted line that the Democrats started in the 1970's for "sub-prime" mortgages? They expanded it in the late 90's under Clinton. Then they voted for people who were socialists and communists, and progressives and liberals that never understood the words...."bottom line"

Oh my, they harped about the cost of Iraq quick enough but when Freddie was showing a loss even as Frank Rains cooked the books to get a bonus, they said us Republicans WERE RACISTS!!!!! How could anyone deny homes to people that had no credit ratings or financials... or bank accounts. MEXICANS were eligible under this Democrat program.

Bush was right about one thing. Home ownership was at an all time high. Now the US Taxpayer owns them.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 09 Feb 2009 #permalink

Lea: Apparently the Republicans in the Senate don't know it. Maybe you should let the jerks who represent you there know about it.

Randy: Your folks got us into this mess and then took the money and pocketed it. Now they are going back to their banks and whining that the gov't is interfering with their bonuses. You guys had your chance and you fucked it up. Time to try something else. If it doesn't work then you can complain. Meanwhile you are no better than Rush who wants it to fail.

Wow revere, you're on a roll.
If you'd take a moment or two to study the history you might realize that it's the Dems who like to spend, NOT the Republicans.
"I'm not worried about my job but I am terrified for my son in law and daughter who, if he loses his job, won't have any health insurance for themselves or their two babies".
Well, you can take care of them revere, right ? After all, I'm not the one who told them to have two babies they might not be able to support. I sure the heck don't want to support them.

"But I hope not in TN".
That sure the fuck doesn't sound like the loving and caring revere that has barfed all over this blog. What gives?

But, but MRK. There was a young black woman who said after Bambi's Inauguration that she'd no longer have to worry about paying her house payment, her car loan, and putting gas in her car. In other words, because Bambi was elected all her problems were over and that she'd no longer have to worry about the bills she created ! Isn't that nice. {sic}

"because millions of my fellow citizens have failed".
That is the bottom line, right then and there. What were we taught as young people? I was taught to be responsible for MY OWN ACTIONS.

"If I fail, it is not the responsibility of others to suffer because of it".
So say We All.

Oh CAP, you are so right on, thank you.

SrrAB: Government covers up Tesla, have you not seen that? I've been to the site too that sells a Tesla car, do you have the money to buy one? If you do you're richer than I am.

Lea: on the contrary. Republicans always spend more then Democrats and leave bigger deficits. If you respect history, you may wish to verify what I say. Regarding my comments about TN, Randy's state has spoken clearly on what they want. They should get it. I respedt that. Plus it saves me money. I'm not trying to force them.

Now since you have done your part, I am glad for you that you are not suffering in this economy. However I know lots of people who aren't as lucky as you. They have also done their part but are suffering mightily. Whose fault is that? Of course it doesn't apply to Wall Street. And whose fault is that?

Yes, CAP, right on. Thank you. LOL.

Now as a Paul lover, I'm sure your prescription is to do nothing. Most people don't agree with you.

Lea: Touche! While I don't have enough to purchase a Tesla roadster, OR a bi-turbo V12 Mercedes, OR a V8 Ferrari, I might as well own one considering the amount of loans that are putting me through my local accredited School of Public Health!

Yes revere, have done "my part" and if I fall down to my knees I will, on my own, figure out what I need to do to pull my self up and succeed again. OR go live in my tent until the time arrives that I'm able to move back into a stick built structure.
Tell me ! Tell me ! Does your son-in-law have a back-up plan ?

Lea, we know you'll pick yourself up if you personally fail. The question here is what will you do after you get f*#@ed over by someone else because nobody was there to keep that bastard honest?

Are you going to accept personal responsibility for failure when your 80k/yr salary all of a sudden won't pay for your home of 10 years and allow you to retire before you're 75, because some exec (likely an Ivy-league Randian VP who just worked the system way harder than you, dude) flew off with it on a taxpayer-funded private jet with no repercussions?

Now I know plenty of idiots out there that bought homes way beyond what they could afford, but did you, when you bought your home, pick out a house far beneath what you could afford expecting that 40% of your diversified retirement fund would disappear 5 years before retirement to prevent your own failure?

You would be referring to Republican Presidents Revere.

Category Basic USGovt Jeopardy 101, For 2.4 trillion dolloars and the answer IS...... Votes the money for the running of the United States Government.....

Who are the Congress of the United States of America?

Category Basic USGovt Jeopardy 101, For 9.7 trillion dollars and the answer IS.....Man responsible for creating a budget.......

Who is the President of the United States of America?

Category Basic USGovt Jeopardy 101, For skys the limit the answer IS.... Group that has been in control of the Congress of the United States for 2.5 years and has voted to affirm the budgets each year?

Who are the Democrats ? (acceptable answers... progressives, liberals, socialists communists)

And there you have it... Its all a game show now to Revere and the Obamanation. Just like the sixty four thousand dollar question, the system is gamed. We will give our boy the right answers or they will sound good but really... You dont win 64,000... You owe that.

And a large touch more.... Say hi to all your new relatives that dont live with you, go to work, never have worked and aint gonna work. Obama is going to take YOUR money and give it to THEM because they are so affected by the recession. Shit, they were on welfare all of their lives anyway... This is just a pay increase.

A guy who did it on his own.... Never preached race, hate. Hated politics and did this...

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 09 Feb 2009 #permalink

Oh by the way Revere.... The TVA is a semi-public corporation... Thats okay, they get a bailout too if you havent heard from Obama....

All that new power transmission stuff n' all.

Goddamn has anyone seen that little porcine beast running around in here? Jesus, I got to find him soon... He is going to crap on all of us as he has DDOA.



By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 09 Feb 2009 #permalink

And now we get THIS from the annointed one......

NO WAY... Did you know that some 166,000 organizations AND THE INDIVIDUALS IN THEM will have access to your records? Hey, we know their security is up to snuff RIGHT.

What a clusterfuck this guy is. Its back door UHC. Daschle the Dem, that dont pay his taxes came up with this one.…

I guess if you made 900,000 as a lobbyist thats not supposed to work in cabinet, that you dont have to pay your taxes either... Why is it that Democrats in power dont pay their taxes? Well, maybe its because they think they are better than us and the law doesnt apply to them.

Thats okay, they will have access to how much YOU make with the above system... Its all about the copay fella's.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 09 Feb 2009 #permalink

Here is the NEXT power grab. Congressional redistricting. They will simply take the census and mold it the way they want. They will control the federal judges because they will make the appointments to the bench.

Adolph Hussein Obama.…

This is EXACTLY the same thing that Hitler did. Come on Revere, defend your boy and his policies now. Wont be long now until Kristal Nacht. They will simply say it was necessary and that people posed a threat to the government.... Get my cell ready at Gitmo, or the rope at Maxwell.

He is going to tell you what you make and when to make it. He is going to try to ensure that all things are controlled by government. He will create a problem and then name himself emperor due to a "disaster". He will create a superforce of police only answerable to him.

And its only 20 days since he took office. Whats next, suspension of the Constitution?

For those Anti-Christ Christians and other religions that looking for Mr. Scratch... this is going to play right into their hands. But, all of those people down south with their guns and religion well, we will just have to wait and see what he has up his sleeve or should I say Rahm (Blagojevich) Emanuel has in the next 20.

He is really defining his presidency Revere... Not as a president, but someone who is going to seize control of this country. Even you should be able to see that now...

Change we can believe in.....

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 09 Feb 2009 #permalink

Lea: Tell me ! Tell me ! Does your son-in-law have a back-up plan ?

What kind of back up plan is there for folks like them? His entire salary goes to day care. they live off my daughter's per diem social work income. She can be laid off at any moment and has no benefits. We help them as much as we can but we aren't wealthy and I am approaching retirement and my retirement account is disappearing. Back-up plan? Like what, exactly? How will they get medical care for the babies or themselves? Rent? You seem to live in a world unlike most ordinary people.

Randy: If you ever bother to read over your rants with an objective eye you would see just how crazy, hysterical and frightened they sound. You have consistently made predictions here about wars starting, military actions "about to happen," apocalypses around the corner, etc., etc. How many of your imminent predictions have come true? Exactly zero. They are also way over the line of what's acceptable when you start comparing Obama (or anyone else, even including GWB) to Hitler. It is offensive to those who know what it means and frankly, ignorant sounding. You sound more and more like a Klan or Supremacist/survivalist nutcase. This kind of talk is getting close to unacceptable here, if not there already. I am disappointed.

Yeah Revere, Past is prologue. This entire mess is going to do us in under two years. Unacceptable? Obama is doing exactly what Hitler did. Making a comparison between the two isnt unacceptable when its true.

Elders of Zion, Dialogue in Hell Revere.

Lets see Revere we will run on up to the shooting war in Afghanistan... The one I just left with a surge starting of 30,000. But thats not a war to you guys. How about the one we are leaving in Iraq. Pakistan and India are at each others throats. Chemical weapons on the launchers last year in Syria. Nyah... its not a war. It will be when the big bright flash happens in the US. Then they will believe it. Not before.

And unless you arent up on current events the shooting is still going on in Georgia with the Russians and you likely forgot that the Russian fleet turned their ship based howitzers towards Sevastapol in the Ukraine.

How do you interpret that? Lefties do literally as a friendly gesture. A salute if you will.

"Nazi Economic Policy
Nazi regimentation extended to the economic sphere, although the property and profits of the capitalists were protected. In practical terms, the word "socialist" in the name of the Nazi Party did not refer to the nationalization of the means of production but rather to requiring the economy to serve the interests of the state. Hitler succeeded in reducing unemployment by initiating public works projects, including the construction of superhighways (autobahns), and establishing the Labor Service to provide jobs for young workers who could not find employment in the private sector. In 1936, the Four Year Plan was launched with the purpose of promoting economic self-sufficiency and of mobilizing the economy for war."

Hmm... this sounds very familiar.

"When the stock market collapsed on Wall Street on Tuesday, October 29, 1929, it sent financial markets worldwide into a tailspin with disastrous effects.

The German economy was especially vulnerable since it was built out of foreign capital, mostly loans from America and was very dependent on foreign trade. When those loans suddenly came due and when the world market for German exports dried up, the well oiled German industrial machine quickly ground to a halt.

As production levels fell, German workers were laid off. Along with this, banks failed throughout Germany. Savings accounts, the result of years of hard work, were instantly wiped out. Inflation soon followed making it hard for families to purchase expensive necessities with devalued money.

Overnight, the middle class standard of living so many German families enjoyed was ruined by events outside of Germany, beyond their control. The Great Depression began and they were cast into poverty and deep misery and began looking for a solution, any solution.

Adolf Hitler knew his opportunity had arrived. "

Now how much debt do the Chinese own of ours. The events are a bit different but the responses are the same...

Hitler to Obama... Dont tell anyone what you are doing is VERY close to what I did. Someone might just catch on.

"The Great Depression

In the fall of 1929 a shock wave began in the city of New York that was destined to help bring Hitler to power in far-off Germany. The Wall Street stock market crashed. The trading of stocks came to an abrupt halt when the value of the stocks suddenly fell to practically nothing. Millionaires became paupers overnight. The middle class saw its savings and investments disappear. People who had invested in stocks and bonds suddenly had nothing left. Banks failed and companies went bankrupt; people who had placed their money in savings accounts and checking accounts found that they could not draw their money out because the banks had been shut down. Factories and stores closed. Jobs were scarce.

Germany's economy after World War I had been built on foreign loans, especially loans from the United States, and on world trade, which was also based on a system of loans and notes of credit. As a result, the fate of Germany (and of other countries as well) was tied up with that of the United States. When world trade and commerce collapsed, the German economy collapsed with it. Now millions of Germans were out of work. The middle class saw its savings and investments disappear. To pay their debts, people were forced to sell houses and furnishings. The Depression was the final blow, coming on top of Germanyâs military defeat and the postwar years of inflation and unemployment. In Germany more than in any other country a feeling of utter hopelessness prevailed.

Germany's major political parties were also stunned and helpless. Only two parties could turn to the people of Germany to say, âWe told you so.â One of these was the Communist party, which for years had said that the defeat of capitalism was near. The other was Hitler's party, the Nazis."

The parallels are unparalled here Revere.... But now I am a racist according to you...

I am VERY dissappointed. The worst part? If I am even half right we are done. The Democrats/libs/socialists and Communists have done it and it will spin down and out of control. The result will be even more control and part of that is congressional redistricting.

If I wasnt so right, then the markets would be beaming at this gomer and his actions and that of his cabinet. I can only hazard a guess as to what Hillary is going to do when she buys off Hamas as we did Arafat.

Hey, have you seen that beheading from yesterday... ?

Those guys are people we can negotiate with without preconditions.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 10 Feb 2009 #permalink

2 MORE trillion dollars in addition to the 1.4 now takes it to 3.4 and backing up 6.3 in FDIC type of ops.…

We dont care about pork? How about 950 billion dollars that will generate NOTHING? They are payoffs to the Dem supporters?

Remember Chuck Schumer in your prayers.

But the R card had to be played. So being from the South and calling a black President on it is being RACIST.

Disagree? Well you have to be one of those nutcases down south...KKK member/White Supremacist/Survivalist. .. Its an autoplay.

If you dont agree you are automatically a racist and not someone who can see the end of the tunnel ...That light coming out of the other end is a a freight train. I guess that all of those Democrats that are bailing on this deal are racists too, the Republicans as well. And well Joe Lieberman is just hated by the Democrats even though he was their VP pick now many years ago?

See how they turn on you? All you have to do is disagree.... A 100,000 man police force is the answer to that.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 10 Feb 2009 #permalink

Randy: Since I've never heard Obama blame Jews, Communists or Gypsies for the world's woes, but you are now one third of the way there, I would have to say you were closer to Hitler than most people I know. On the other hand, I'm not particularly worried about you having a following. And frankly, and completely bonkers as you sound, you couldn't come close to Hitler in sheer evil. I don't think you really appreciate how offensive and inapt your comparison is, but I will ask you once not to make it again.

As for Afghanistan, that is a snake pit and Obama is 100% wrong. We should withdraw immediately. You know that's my position as I have stated it several times here, going back years. You seem to forget that. I'm not particularly enamored of Obama's policies but I'm not completely crazy, either. You are. Your comments here are a version of hate speech. Do not continue in this vein.

revere: We are all different here, like you said in your interview, your blog is a kitchen. This makes for interesting discussions instead of mundane yada, yada crap.
MRK, by all accounts is a good fellow. We all have our quirks and it's amazing what we learn about one another. He has openly shared his background and in my opinion any intelligent person would be able to mull that over and recognize that is indeed what makes him MRK.
Yes, yes there are some rough edges but who the heck really cares? We all have rough edges and those who recognize them are the ones making progress in life.

Sorry that your kids are going through a rough spot, truly. It makes it hard on you too because in your heart you want to see them succeed and enjoy life.
And I well understand the retirement thing as my husband and I are fast approaching that novel concept ourselves. Like I've said before, we have good camping equipment.

Revere-Its your blog and its parsing . You have repeatedly and often referred to Bush as a Nazi. Never a communist though to my knowledge.

The analogies for this time ARE the same and when you sit back and say that its offensive well so is what these guys are doing. They are on the same track that you were accusing Bush of and well, now lets see Obama hasnt found his little group by name to attack yet...But they are already there... Its the rich people those Wall Streeters that HIS party bailed out with 720 billion dollars. No, not the Republicans even though they went along with it. Remember, this is the party that just loves George Soros. The convicted French securities scammer. He did so much for the party in the last few years.

Jew, Gypsies and Communists....And rich Wall Street people who will now have to bend and kiss the ring of one Barack Hussein Obama if they want to work. Hey whats in a name? I am a lable now too. "One of those guys down south with their guns and religion." You forgot that I think and way too conveniently.

The markets have spoken and with a 300 point plus tumble today Revere I would say you are in the minority of believers now. Steal from the rich and give to the poor. Of course all neat and shiny under the guise of Change we can believe in.

You are ignoring the facts Revere. The amount of money that they have spent in the last 3 months is more than we spent in the first two years of WWII. Now we are going to spend and back more than 9.7 trillion... Freedom Foundation puts it at 14.5 trillion with interest.

He could have kept it in the middle and he might have been a good President.. You are right, he might not be Hitler but Josef Stalin might be closer. Government will control all things in our lives in under six months. You were going off about the excesses of the Bush Administration...I believe you said give him a chance... Yeah, he blew it. Rule number one with ALL recessions.. DO NOT TINKER WITH THEM.

You can change the course of a stream but not a river. Make the ground fertile in front of the businesses for them to grow and make jobs. That hasnt happened and well now you see the effects of having Democrats in charge of Congress for 2.5 years.

This is a government take over pure and simple and if thats not Hitler, Stalin or whomever you want to call it then you just cant see this clearly. The facts are very clear. The government has taken over WITHOUT OVERSIGHT OR INPUT the banking industry, the housing, the markets and the taxation of citizens. The Democrats are socializing this country in a pell mell way and screaming that its necessary else we are all gonna die financially. Well welcome to the world party pal.

Now they take the census into the WHITE HOUSE? They in turn will use every law on the books to go after political opponents and now they are going to be able to call that shot too with Congressional redistricting to ensure that you absolutely see their majority in Congress at all times. NO MATTER WHAT...

Money will be worthless...

You can put whatever terms you want on it Revere... its still the same TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT.

Definition: Totalitarianism

E.g. The communist leader Joseph Stalin, who forged the Soviet Union into a major 20th century power. His ruthless political purges removed all internal opposition and by the mid-1930s his leadership was undisputed.

Government control of all activities within a country, openly political or otherwise, as in fascist or communist dictatorships. Examples of totalitarian regimes are Italy under Benito Mussolini 1922-45; Germany under Adolf Hitler 1933-45; the USSR under Joseph Stalin from the 1930s until his death in 1953; and more recently Romania under Nicolae CeauÅescu 1974-89.

I'll leave it to you to come up with a name for Obamanation after its all over. History sure as hell will. As for followers Revere... Here is another news flash... 44% of this country voted against Obama and I didnt tell them how to vote or force them to as they would in OZ or pay a fine. I assume that the people who read here are at least 18 years old and that they can make their own decisions. Well now there I go again, I assume also that they make their own decisions when presented with the facts. Some facts are skewed, some are ambiguous, some are steeped in a bit of truth. But the numbers are real. The US is going to be a third world nation in just 2 years when the music stops. No one is going to buy our debt, no one is going to buy our securities and there will be a global recession. I think I said back in January of last year that this was comingj... But how quickly we forget the people who say I told you so.

Two years from now..... I will say I told you so.

I just wonder now though how long it will be before the remaining Americans figure it out ... on their own?

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 10 Feb 2009 #permalink

Randy: Perhaps you'd like to point out where I have repeatedly called Bush a Nazi. And BTW, if I or someone else did, it's not the same as saying he's Hitler, but I don't recall having done it, in thousands of posts here. Since you say I have done it "repeatedly" it should be easy for you to come up with a handful of examples.

So you are making more apocalyptic predictions. Six months we are going fascist? LOL. You have made so many whacko predictions I shouldn't even bother, but just curious, what if you're wrong? Is there any accountability? Or will you just issue more voluminous prognoses, just as worthless and witless as all the others. Jeez.

The US is already going down hill, given a mighty shove by the Money Party and its puppets in the Republican party and in the Bush administration. So get used to it.

And the Obama Marionettes will be seen on television for the next year saying that this was all Bush's fault. Uh-huh. They will so easily forget that the hundreds of sites with videos debunking that are still out there... If they dont take that out too.

I wouldnt say we are going fascist, you have said we were there already under Bush. It didnt matter if you said it or not, plenty of people here did and YOU SAID NOTHING TO THEM. But when an opposing view to this cocked up Chicago clown that all you leftists adore comes up and makes an analogy to Hitler/Stalin....Ooooooh, now we just cant have that... its offensive.. This is a move towards the far, far left Revere and Obama is seizing power where he doesnt have the right to. Its not within the currernt law. There is going to be a fight and its going to be big.

Sooner than later and I think very soon at that you will see the targeting of people that are in opposition going on. A classic study in Johnsonianism. How about IRS audits? And you know, not taking any of this bailout money might be a good thing for everyone. You dont take it, you dont have to submit to federal pressures.

Doesnt matter. When it collapses you'll have to admit I am right and then with the 401k worthless and SS payments inflated so the money is worthless, well its going to be no small comfort. Pyrrhic victory.

Cant have your marijuana and smoke it too Revere.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 10 Feb 2009 #permalink

So you acknowledge I didn't call Bush a Naz (or rather, you said it didn't matter what the facts were). Instead you now claim I let others do it. Give me some examples. This is typical right wingnuttery. Switch quickly to something else. Like: I'm a dirty fucking marijuana smoking hippie. Except I never was a hippie and I don't smoke marijuana (not that it would matter; I think lots of your right wing buddies do it regularly, too).

As far as what the next years will bring under Obama, he won the election. That's the way it works in the country, at least so far. I'd be willing to bet you virtually amount we could each afford to bet there will be free and open elections in 2010-, 1012, 2014 and 2016 and at some p0oint someone else besides Obama will be President. Any predictions to the contrary are just batshit crazy.

Even you and your survivalist friends can't bring this government down. Your banker firends might be able to, though. Thanks. Maybe the Frist family, who defrauded me and other taxpayers, will protect you when things collapse.

O.K., enough, right now ! Simmer down, both of you.


I have known that your background has the talent of millitary executive- good at the scrutiny of enemy. Please save your energy for treating North Korea and Iran. Obama has one republican in his cabinet, maybe you can focus on this area; make sure that your tax record is clean, though.

Millitary has to be placed under civllian government- rule number one.

Rule number two, don't be panic- how a commander-in-chief can be in panic. I can not believe that a millitary-trained person like you can talk like this.

For a new president in the office less than a month, you've accused him H.; many people which include me will think this is a kind of denigration- the class of North Korea. This is for them not for us.

My friend, please think the value and style that you would like to teach us.

Revere: Please keep your linient style consistently. Don't worry, the evolution of staunch independence will not happen in years. Perhaps it has to take a decade. The place like this blog can contribute, anyway you have started already-I am particularly interested in this evolution.

Revere you are still parsing... You never had one word to say about Bush that anything in his administration worked. You wanted me to give Obama a chance. He is 20 days into it and he has bankrupted the country because he wont lead. Schumer says pork doesnt matter?

He has shown zero leadership and this is only turning into a payoff for BOTH sides of the aisle. 9.7 trillion and sorry Revere the tactics that are being used are obvious, they arent even veiled. They are planning a takeover. The same takeover that so many said Bush and Cheney would do.. They control the banks, taxes, legislative, administrative, and of course Congress. Sure sound like totalitarianism to me that will slip there from socialism.

Shit, they are rank amateurs compared to these guys.

Pai-I am not panicked at all. This mess is going to hasten the inevitable and that will be a total economic collapse. Revere just didnt get it. He took issue with the marijuana jab. The jab was set out as a lefty policy a long time ago... Legalize marijuana. I wasnt changing the subject. But it would appear I have hit a nerve. Hey Revere, if I thought you were a dope smoker you know as well as I do that I would come right out and say it.

The point is that the attempts by the Democrats to seize all power in this country is paralleled to the actions of Hitler. Stalinistic at the very least. The fact that they are going to move the census into the White House is going to be met head on by the Republicans. Thats a full blown Hitler tactic, Stalin too. But, Revere is Obamanized IMO.

If he is worried about his 401k then let him. I went to gold two years ago in anticipation of this. Silver too. His 401 and others, likely its gone. The numbers may still be there but they will be wiped out by the spending and the inflation. Biden has said that the seniors are going to just have to live with their infirmities as they cut Medicare. Oh, well blame it on Bush right? Now lets see thats coming out under which administration? They are talking about rationing Medicare is what they are saying. Hey they are old, they cant fight anymore. Why not?

Oh, and they are going to add ANOTHER TRILLION DOLLARS TO IT AS OF THIS MORNING or so they said.. Revere just doesnt understand whats about to happen. I do, I am prepared for it and I own everything outright.So I get to bitch because its going to tear this country apart.

But he is deluding himself to the nth degree if he thinks that Obama and the Dems are going to get anyone out of this. Runaway inflation is going to be the result.... Nothing more and nothing less. Think not? Price of oil jumped 2 bucks this morning even as the supplies INCREASED! Value of the dollar dropped 2 against the Rand. Havent checked the Euro but its a toss as to which is worth less right now.

Interesting reach Revere, did anyone say you were smoking dope or that you were a hippie? Oh, gee. Progressive is the term you applied to yourself. Okay, it was a progressive President who put the sub-prime biz into effect. It was a progressive (his term) who expanded it. It was a Republican President who made the mistake of saying home ownership was at an all time high. And it was a Democrat AND a Republican who said it should be re-regulated. And we know that one of them never inhaled, or got BJ's in the White House.

The balloon has burst Revere and frankly the total numbers now for the bailout far exceed anything we could have ever had in mortgages. They could have bought up EVERY mortgage both prime and sub-prime, commercial and residential now. But they havent. Because they are creating the crisis to pay off their buddies with our money. Now here is another question I have and I would like Revere or Obama to reply directly. We are spending all of this money on bailouts, but I see no jobs out of any of it. Where are these kids going to get jobs? We have no industry, we have nothing but a collapsed service industry and the one world government that everyone has envisaged has come apart like a two dollar watch.

The end to this his high taxes, high interest rates. Personally I think its game over. Its a Depression its just sit back and wait and watch what happens. But all of this including the bailouts have been done under the law. Those laws currently and for the previous 2.5 have been from from the National Socialist Party in exile. Guess who I am talking about. Guess who pandered the nearly exact same ideas and "solutions." I believe we will see that final one soon enough under this guy.

Panicked Pai, not a chance. I just see whats coming.. You dont and you are defending what is happening. Good luck. Lock and load. I can tell you that the military already has made their opinions of the annointed one known by 7 out of 8. They dont trust him, they dont think he was or will ever be worth a damn as Commander in Chief. I think he is far more dangerous than Bush or even Cheney could ever be. He hasnt got a clue what to do with the economy except to spend the money. He will have to gut the military to do it too. Last time that happened we had a country named Afghanistan go under the goose step. The guy before put us into a four year war and on two fronts.

I can tell you what one shrink who has watched him rise said but then, I would have to use the H word again and that offends Revere. Gee, I dont get it. I sit back, be nice for a very long time and then get zero respect from the libs even though its given to them. Then when I fly off, well its offensive. I am not going to apologize at all. I have seen little tin cans like this come down the pike before. Ortega, Noriega, Khomeini, Idi Amin, Carter, just to name a few. Some were benign idiots, most were flat dangerous. We are just going to spend more money to pay off Hamas and others. They'll use it for humanitarian aid. That will go for food and medicines. The money they were spending on that will go for buying new weapons. How nice.

But, I dont and never have lived in a little socialist dream world. I never will either because all of the Europeans systems have collapsed or nearly so in the last few months. The Dutch are in real trouble, the Icelandics are having trouble feeding their families, the UK health services system says they dont have the money to continue beyond .... April?

They dont know what to do because they are looking to us for leadership.

They are going to be looking for at least four more years. Even the Brits are starting to see the writing on the wall and are taking action to protect themselves. Hey, first thing the Dems tried here? BUY AMERICAN.... I guess they didnt know it was illegal under GATT.

Pai- I give it two years to the mid-term elections and the people are going to speak loud and clear to Mr. Obama. Its not going to take ten years. Its already underway and the polls clearly show they are grossly dissapointed. Stick around, he will have lower numbers than Bush.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 10 Feb 2009 #permalink

"I can tell you that the military already has made their opinions of the annointed one known by 7 out of 8. They dont trust him, they dont think he was or will ever be worth a damn as Commander in Chief. I think he is far more dangerous than Bush or even Cheney could ever be."

I know that honor and obedience are two irreplaceable principles to be a solider; you have insulted American military.

You must be crazy; your post indeed exceeds the border.

Randy: Parsing? You mean I'm not supposed to pay attention to whether the facts are true or not? Then if the facts aren't important, why include them in your overly long, verbose, incoherent comments? If that's the way you want it,

I won't parse.

Your claim: Obama is Hitler and within 2 years (or 6 months) he and his Communist gang will have taken over the United States and democracy will be over. LOL.

The comments have gotten completely Off Topic here and it's time to call it a draw. Wheels are spinning and it is falling to the side of ridiculous. I could go into a subconscious analysis of why it's happening but I doubt anyone would listen.

MRK: Stop being angry over revere's tirade on Bush II in the past and quite trying to make up for it now. revere is what he is, period.
As far as you bringing up MJ, you broke a promise to me, your cyber friend; you said you wouldn't bring it up again. Now you've gone and pissed me off, thanks.
If you'd research the benefits of it, like I have for 30 plus years, as much as you have other subjects you would surely change your mind.
Quit being so unyielding. You're prepared, you're aware, and you're not happy, we get the picture.

Paiwan with all due respect you can piss off on that comment. There is hardly a guy out in the field or on the bases that wants or wanted Obama in there. Truth be known they werent too happy with McCain either. But there was one that is more distrusted than both of them and that was Hillary.

Lea-Its context... You can take the MJ comment any way you want.

And Revere, you probably need to go back and look at a few posts. I did last night and it was very informative.

History is going to have to judge GWB and whether he got it right or not. Quite a bit he didnt, but not with Obama. The first thing out of his mouth was bipartisanship. He only had 6% on election day and thats now been reversed to a negative 30 from that day. The writings already on the wall.

I am certainly not LOL as its becoming more and more evident what they plan to do. They are protecting themselves with our money and its just delaying the inevitable now. A complete economic collapse could cause a break up of the country and there are about 15 states down this way that are absolutely seething right now with what he and his people are doing.…

I also recommend that you read up on Obama, what writings he has done and what he has suggested in the past and that is pure socialism/communism and totalitarianism.

Revere, You either get that or you dont. Or if you do, you are discounting it. Both would be a really bad mistake on your part and that of the Democrats as promises printed on paper are just that.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 11 Feb 2009 #permalink


Can you offer any evidence that your plan to run America would result in less of a risk of the country "breaking up"? You seem to pick and choose sources that support your position, but do not investigate arguments presented counter to your beliefs. You realize that you are in an extremely small minority of the population that believes Obama is ushering in a totalitarian communist era in America, right?

I think if your ideals ran the country, the outcry would be far stronger, and come from far more powerful and influential sources. America voted for change, and they liked the change Obama represented more than they liked the change Johnny Mac stood for, and more than the change Ron Paul and Bob Barr stood for, and more than the change Ralph Nader stood for, and evidently more than the change you stood for.

As for your suggestion that most of the military didn't want Obama to win the election, that's fine, but remember the beauty of democracy is that the military doesn't choose who runs the country, the entire population of eligble voters does. It may be said that in our American case, the military are not a very good representative sample of all of the people in all 50 states in terms of political ideology.

I think you may have problems dealing with confounders in your analysis. You fail to report the significance of your risks, or report any quantitative risks at all. Your suggestion the country may "break up" because of Obama's policies are based on population-level data in select states that went bluer in 2008 than many elections in the past, and you should investigate the possibility of the ecological fallacy.

Randy: Since socialism, communism and totalitarianism are three different things, I suggest you look them up and when you understand what they are and how they differ, think again.

Rasmussen is an outlier. All other polls on the public response to the stimulus show it is favored. But Rasmussen is the favorite of the right wing because it gives you the answer you want.

You want to wait for history to judge GWB (even though the wreckage is all around you) but you want to prejudge Obama. I am not happy about the stimulus, either. I think it needs to be at least three times as big. In FDRs words (I'm sure you think he was a commie, too), it is like throwing a 50 food lifeline to someone drowning 100 feet away. That's another little gift from your right wing friends. They want the economy to collapse so you can say "I told you so" and then have a little revolt or coup.

As for your claim you now what "the military" thinks, you don't. I know many who were overjoyed Obama was elected and the vets certainly are (maybe not your friends, but the ones I know and deal with, the ones who came back shattered and broken and in pain and in despair because they were abandoned by "the military").

They want the economy to collapse so you can say "I told you so" and then have a little revolt or coup."

This sentence has to be slaughtered. Bad argument.

Since socialism, communism are related but only have slight differences Revere I would think you would understand that. More parsing....


1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Word History: It is fitting that the name of an authoritarian political movement like Fascism, founded in 1919 by Benito Mussolini, should come from the name of a symbol of authority. The Italian name of the movement, fascismo, is derived from fascio, "bundle, (political) group," but also refers to the movement's emblem, the fasces, a bundle of rods bound around a projecting axe-head that was carried before an ancient Roman magistrate by an attendant as a symbol of authority and power. The name of Mussolini's group of revolutionaries was soon used for similar nationalistic movements in other countries that sought to gain power through violence and ruthlessness, such as National Socialism.

Sta·lin·ism (stä'lÉ-nÄz'Ém) Pronunciation Key
n. The bureaucratic, authoritarian exercise of state power and mechanistic application of Marxist-Leninist principles associated with Stalin. Sometimes associated with totalitarianism.

Stalinism [(stah-luh-niz-uhm)]

The form of Marxism associated with Soviet leader Joseph Stalin. Stalinism emphasizes the repression of all dissent, often by brutal means; a rigid adherence to government management of economic life; and the domination of all communist movements worldwide by the Soviet Union. In holding to these beliefs, Stalin opposed Leon Trotsky. (See Trotskyism.)

All of these things including turn the system into a classless society and thats what you are proposing with Obama. I think he wants to take it a bit further. You apparently want to expand this.

I dont want to break the sad news to anyone but the world economy HAS collapsed so its a moot point. These policies are going to drive us deeper into national debt. Obama is moving to make this a socialist state and now even the states are responding. Srr-and to all I suggest you read this. We are now on the road to secession... Its about damned time too.

Revere with all due respect you are dealing with people who have been shot up and lost limbs, eyes and organs. And they all volunteered God bless them. But its that perfect world you live in where there is no war, no casualties where everyone has enough to eat, no conflicts, and there is no incentive to do anything. Most of them probably dont know that the Congress votes the money. Perhaps you would tell that Democrat Congress who refused to increase that portion of the spending 5 times in the last 8 years to rebuild their lives. But no, that has to be a W problem, now doesnt it? Havent seen a THING in the budget to address this problem. Dont call Obama though, call Barney. Besides I would totally disagree with your assessment of how the troops feel about him. Remember, I just got back and am in constant contact into Baghdad...every couple of hours. sure you read the part on the differences between authoritarian and totalitarianism. Its textbook from the war college teachings, but they do outline that the first part is a grab for power to put either one person or a group of people into control. Sounds very familiar in light of current events. Its no stretch from socialism into communism at all, it ends in a Pelosi Politburo. You will of course disagree.

I think FDR was a calculating man and maybe in my lifetime we might find out of he got several thousand people killed by inaction and plausible deniability prior to WWII. Set up to get what he wanted. Certainly there were a lot of questionable activity when there was a heavily armed fleet out to sea. Again, history isnt holding him in high esteem on military planning but maybe on socialist behavior. You probably loved him.

As for Rasmussen Revere, Obama's own staff was citing during the campaign. Outlier until it goes your way.

SRRA-You would be correct that the cross section of the military would not be representative of the rest of America. These are the doer's, the motivated, the people who aspire to be something... This is something that Obama doesnt want. He wills ay he does but people who are independent and think in that manner when they go against the grain are a threat to him and his circle. He wants to collapse all power inward to himself. He is trying to do that with a 6% election lead. I think Clinton tried the same thing and he found himself with a Republican Congress in the midterms after his election. So Obama is trying to move this control agenda now before the country can respond and vote accordingly. Skewing census data inside the White House to ensure majorities. There havent been major redistricting battles in the US in about 10 years. Status quo... This is going to ensure yet another rancorous battle in both the states and courts. Dumb move Obama. Its not hostile enough already?

I will also submit that you could be right in your assessment that what I propose might not work either. But it surely isnt going to do any good for the American people to have MORE government that simply takes money and gives it to poor people, thus inflating the economy and raising the need for yet higher numbers to give to....poor people. If this money train stops due to a full blown economic collapse then those poor are going to revolt.

And Revere, the first steps to secession have begun now on the state levels...…

If you cant stop the junkie from buying coke, you cut off the supply at the source. In this case they are moving to remove the federal jurisdiction over us... 20 states and it will start passing until the USGovt is back to what it was 175 years ago.

Adams and Jefferson differed but they always put the nation first rather than this money gorged partisan double part monster we have created here that uses tax money as payoffs on both sides.

Thats all this stimulus package is and Revere just wants to EXPAND IT! Sorry Revere but 55 trillion in unfunded mandates now... How do you amortize it? Please do tell me how spending MORE is going to make this credit card work?

As long as everyone moves within the law then everything will eventually work itself out. Even if it means we default on our bonds and bills. If not, then the results will be pretty bad. All of the Series E bonds allow for us to default.. a subtle change.…

There are no Adams or Jeffersons, or even Hamiltons any more. Time for a change...yet again.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 12 Feb 2009 #permalink

Randy: Rasmussen as outlier:

Pollster Support level (previous where available)

Gallup 52 (53) 2/4
CNN 54 2/7-8
Pew 51 (57) 2/4-8
Rasmussen 37 (42) 2/4
CBS 51 (63) 2/2-4

BTW, take a look at it this week on the same question: 44 - 40, but still an outlier.

Communism and socialism have only slight differences? I guess since you don't have definitions clipped from wheever you clip them from, you couldn't find what you wanted. Those of us who know the difference know it isn't slight. Communists would call themselves a form of socialist, but most socialists vehemently reject communism. That's probably not important to you.

I have no idea what your logorrheic dump of dictionary definitions has to do with Obama. But then neither do you.

I'm not going to bother schooling you in political economy. You don't want to know and you've made up your mind. Socialism is just an epithet to you, not an idea, because you don't know what it is.

You know what the troops think? You (perhaps) know what some of them you were with, think. If they are as braod minded as you, they don't care what others think and don't know. A recent poll frm Miliatary Times ( showed 60% uncertain or unfavorable about Obama among active duty. That's not a majority in favor but it's not 8 out of 10 very opposed, as you claim. It has changed quite a bit since the election. We'll see what happens.

FDR was a communist and turned a blind eye to the threat of war. Is that what you are saying? Because it was the Republican Party that opposed preparing for war. You knew that, didn't you?

Revere with all due respect you are dealing with people who have been shot up and lost limbs, eyes and organs. And they all volunteered God bless them. But its that perfect world you live in where there is no war, no casualties where everyone has enough to eat, no conflicts, and there is no incentive to do anything.

The two halves of this para. contradict each other. But for the record, the world I live in is a world where people actually die painful deaths and lead difficult lives as a result of people like who who think their sacrifice is worth it for your fucked up idea of what is right and wrong.

Oh, I dont think they do Revere. But you ignore whats happening. Its the most massive power grab in history short of the Romans.

Now they will ask us to fund liberal programs too via the fairness doctrine. Of course they will muzzle the right so that the only news you hear is the leftists. Anything to grab that power.

Fascism, communism, socialism, elitism and totalitarianism and there is no schooling here Revere. All of that crap is to the LEFT of the spectrum and you know it. You are trying to change the game. Socialism is the only thing close to centrist. And that has sunk the boat of the EU and the UK now as they now have no money to pay for their nanny state. They are in worse shape than we are.

Obama isnt going to fix a thing. The voters may not have even fucked up in voting for him. I doubt that McCain would have been much beyond where Obama was except the stimulus bill might have created a few JOBS.... Now theres a concept. 150 billion to buy up the subprimes and we are now at 9.7 trillion and rising...Typical Democrat. The epitome of throw money at a problem rather than doing something about it.

I expected nothing less that from him and certainly nothing more. My expectations are very low so anything that he might get right will certainly not be of his doing and a pure randomization is my read. But I can tell you he really believes he has the people behind him... Well outside of a few northern states he doesnt. The revolt has started. You just cant see it in Perfect World and in that we disagree and its as simple as that. The Democrats can go to Hell, thats if they believe in it. Fairness doctrine my ass.

That poll you cite was a bit biased and not taken in the wards of the VA. I think they should have in the interests of plurality. Those polls you cite have always been done in the beltway and the lefty states . You cited CNN? That would be like listening to Katie Couric.

But it was like that too during Vietnam when the Dems were in charge of that little debaucle. Public support was supposedly all in favor of the war...If they would win it. Have to ask the right questions too Revere. Thats very important. Couric interviewed the annointed one and did press hard questions and he never answered them. Sidestep, sidestep, sidestep for almost 30 minutes. Where in the Hell was Oprah when he needed her?

Hey, you got his ear why not call the annointed one and tell him to get out of Afghanistan before the surge. That way we can say I told you so a bit earlier than previously expected on that one. They are wary of him in the military Revere. 6 out of 10, well that was before he took office too. Come home from a minor war to one later where you are heads up with the Ruskies and the ChiComs and its a whole new ballgame. And you would be behind the curve on that one because you would have no beacheads. Have to fight your way in second time around.

To be honest, I didnt hear a word in favor of his policies. I can tell you that the dayroom chatter was a bit disingenous towards the new commander in chief. Popcorn bags, hurled invectives and Me, I was a contractor and laughing my ass off. Oh they'll follow his orders because thats the rules and thats what we do. I was there to get one thing done and it only took me a month where they had been trying for six. Lets just call it a construction contract...

But the ball is in play Revere. Mr.Obama had better get his ass in gear and move it back to the center or there is going to be a huge price to pay for their activities. And for the record even if half agreed with me in the military, that last part of your post would be wrong... I think you cited 6 out of 10...

Right and wrong are relative everytime you wake up Revere... Would you cap someone in the morning if you saw them standing over your wife with a knife in their hands or a gun? Or would you negotiate with them. Thats whats happening now, only its long distance and we have to be there.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 12 Feb 2009 #permalink


In my life, this is the first tim that I encounter a person who is delivering hate speech alive, again and again.

Frustrated and disappointed, indeed.

In this moment of world economy crisis, from Gordon Brown's leading voice of stimulus plan of Government until now all responsible governments have been engaging seriously, this direction has been supported by all economists also.

Up to now, Iâve heard your negative energy and voices. Apart from you like Obama doing nothing, what is your proposal? Show at least one constructive solution if you are able.

You want a fix? Its already there Paiwan, but they wont do it because they lose control of the people when they do it.... Cut taxes. Taxes are how government controls us here.

They will figure it out sooner or later. Hate speech? How about Obama standing up and getting his party under control? I dont hate the guy but he IS doing the same thing either directly or VIA HIS POLITBURO cronies as Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini. He could control them but he wont. He is THEIR PUPPET.

They are going to attempt to control the media, the banks, the pay, the housing, the jobs, and the size of government is going to surge to incredible levels. Everyone will be an employee of the Central Committee. Turns the money into a money mill and inflation will be the result. Probably the largest in our history and it will balloon it. WATCH THE NATIONAL DEBT. I am going to write it down on the day of the stimulus package passing and into law. Want to place a bet who is going to be right about this?

Adding in the national debt and the actual debt, then the personal and this country is on its way out. You can feel free to disagree of course and its not hateful to engage in free speech. Nor is it hateful to stand and make your position known and regardless of the left wing hype on Obama he is falling like a rock in his support base in the South. So now they want to allow judges to adjust people in bankruptcy's payments to their creditors.

Hey, WE pay that cost. Now they will have to jack up the interest rates on that alone. All the while some jackass disenfranchised person who shouldnt have been in a house in the first place tips on down, files a bankruptcy. Then we eat it when the real people get stuck with higher interest rates. Socialism 100%

You cannot spend more than you make and expect the outcome to become better. You HAVE to create an output and that isnt being done with the now on the tables 2.7 trillion dollars. Output would be created by making an environment that was helpful to businesses and not one that is restrictive. I have said it consistently that we are overregulated, overtaxed and damned sure too over governmented. This is an effect of the liberal side of the fence. They want to control all aspects of your life.

We have been down this socialist "Great Society" bullshit before and each time we did we got handed our economic teeth. We have shipped all the jobs offshore because its too expensive to operate here. We are competing with guys in Thailand, Vietnam, China, Mexico for jobs that we should have kept here. But we couldnt because of globalization and over-regulation. We became a services industry and now there is no one to sell those services to. We killed our manufacturing base. We dont make steel as a rule, we dont make cars because of unions, we cant make anything because it pollutes the planet. But thats ONLY here.

Those other countries in Asia? They could give one big rats ass about any of the aforementioned things. They are in the business of making money for their particular money grubbing big companies. And they dont have an Obama breathing up their asses or a Congress standing in line to come up with a new round of regulations to impede them. Its because they have to have control of the masses to ensure that control. The system is being rigged and the opposition will be attacked as you have Paiwan.

Chuck Schumer is on the floor right now and saying that its because the Republicans dont want to help anyone with their mortgages, healthcare, and a whole litany of stuff. Bullshit. He is right about one thing... I dont want to pay for someone elses healthcare or their mortgages or their losses in the stock market. You make a mistake, I expect you to get your own self out of it. All of this was induced by a mandate from a liberal Congress and that is that dont you worry, we are the government and if you lose your shirt we will buy you one, if you sign a contract dont worry, we will pay it for you, if you default on a loan we will pay that too.

Latest from the reading. Here is another new one 110 million to run a train line from Disney to Vegas for Amtrak. PORK! It will create a temporary job, it wont happen in under ten years as the environmental impact statement would take about that long to do the assessment on. But HELLS BELLS, God help you if you want to have your convention there.... Lets run a train track to Sin City instead. So its okay to run a train track to it, but dont spend money out there in a convention? What kind of crap is this?

POLITICAL PAYOFF IS ALL THIS IS. Think I am wrong? Then why does Wall Street not buy Obama? Why am I laying off two people today? Why did 100 % of the Republicans NOT vote for the package today in the House? I am reading it now but its 1000 pages long. It came on line at midnight last night... And they are voting on it. How could they have possibly read it?

Paiwan-Dont confuse good common sense with hate... its disingenuous of you and even you know that you cant take a credit card spend it to its limit, then get a credit limit change and spend all of that too. This is a threat to national security now. Obama is going to suck up to the Chinese and others to get them to buy our debt again and they are going to ship even MORE jobs offshore to do it. All will be fine. Then it will come time to pay the credit card bill off.

Thats okay, I am going to get my 14 bucks a week in tax cuts and 8 next year. Thats going to be very helpful.

Here is Wall Streets read as of today....

U.S. Europe Asia Currency/Rates More Markets»
Dow 7,850 -82.35 Nasdaq 1,534 -7.35 S&P 500 827 -8.35 Global Dow 1,392 3.76
Oil $38.10 3.53 Gold $942.20 -7.00

Doesnt seem that business likes Barry and the Bolsheviks too much. That by the way is down 1000 points from just two weeks ago. This is from the guys that provide JOBS to Americans. They like me Paiwan understand that this has a price to be paid and that is monster taxes and unemployment and they have just extended it with their vote. In a year when the unemployment is hanging still at 7% they are just going to try to sock us again. They will deficit spend or they will tax and spend but the bottom line is spend, spend, spend.

Whats the answer Paiwan? Well I guess Obama could resign along with Biden....I dont know, do you think we could ask them?

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 13 Feb 2009 #permalink

Randy: You obviously have no idea how completely daft you sound, which is a bad sign.

How about Obama standing up and getting his party under control? I dont hate the guy but he IS doing the same thing either directly or VIA HIS POLITBURO cronies as Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini. He could control them but he wont. He is THEIR PUPPET.

They are going to attempt to control the media, the banks, the pay, the housing, the jobs, and the size of government is going to surge to incredible levels. Everyone will be an employee of the Central Committee.

Look revere, I don't agree with everything that MRK writes however, daft he is not. What I see is someone who REALLY cares about America. Read between the lines sometime.

Write me off too revere ONLY because I support most of what MRK says. You don't communicate with other's here that disagree with you, instead you've come close to mastering the art of slang and down-right mean and hurtful comments.

Sorry, don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here.

If MRK gets out of line too much I'll take my lily white to Memphis and kick his arse. (and I'll win).

Lea: You don't think what I put in blockquotes is daft? He is quite serious about it. This isn't just a mode of expression. He believes it and has said it in many different ways. This is John Birch crazy. Those people hurt a lot of Americans hurling charges that somebody whose policies they disagreed with was "a communist." People lost jobs, livelihoods, families. careers. I saw it with my own eyes. I lived through it. And the Birchers truly believed the nonsense they were mouthing, too. Randy is shouting at high volume super right wing whack job craziness and doing it unselfconsciously and without guile. REad it, Lea. Don't just defend him because you like him. I like him, too. I like him well enough to take him with the kind of seriousness this deserves. He believes it. It's not a question of who loves America more. It's his sincerity that's most frightening. It's not rhetoric on his part. It's OK to call someone Hitler or Stalin with no basis at all? He obviously has no conception of the things Hitler and Stialin did. For him they are just labels to throw around to vilify someone. It is unconscionable and it continues -- at great length and even greater screwiness. It's not defensible. I'm not asking for an apology from him. I'm just telling him to stop it.

You support most of what Randy says? You support the pull quote? You think that Obama is like Hitler or Stalin and is a puppet of some shadowy politburo? Because he thinks so.

revere: The way MRK writes should be toned down, I'll agree with that much.
It's like I said though, read between the lines.

We're screwed as a nation and it's sad that you can't see it.
Kleptocracy: A corrupt and dishonest government characterised by greed.

"Mr. Luo Ping, director general at China's Banking Regulatory Commission, speaking in New York on Wednesday, shared his opinion of U.S. bailout policies:

"Once you start issuing $1 trillion-$2 trillion ...we know the dollar is going to depreciate, so we hate you guys but there is nothing much we can do."

Reports in the press this week say that China is considering ways to diversify out of the dollar. The Chinese are no fools. They see what is coming. And they know what it will do to them â the holders of the largest pile of dollars ever assembled.

Oh there we go again, any comment made is insane, crazy, racist and above all totally off the wall.

Revere you have been living in the dream world . This guy and the Bolshoi ballet are going to do this country in. They will create an economic collapse that the US will not recover from.

There are 20 states and growing that are about to declare their sovereignty. There is fully 48% of this voting population who are totally in disagreement on how to proceed and take issue with Obama and the Central Committee, and I am daft and mad? You know us guys down South with all of our guns and religion dont like our rights being trampled on.

I think you better get out from behind the desk and take a drive down South. The only people who voted for him here were people who have never held a job and never will. It was an idiot on TV down South that said that Obama was going to pay her house note, her gas bill and give her a job.

How does one respond when its becoming apparent that these clowns are planning just that... A socialist state. What is it Revere when someone takes the money from your pocket because its the law and gives it to someone like the above? Pick a definition and you can apply it. I have mine and you dont like them because the start down that road is socialism first.

You have to admit that this stuff that the Democrats are doing strikes amazing parallels to Hitler and Stalin. For a guy who grew up under Johnson and Nixon I would think that you might want to revisit history and recent at that and some of the shit that they pulled. VERY illegal shit at that. Both pretty much got away with it.

The things that Obama and company are doing are just exactly as Uncle Joe, and Hitler did along with their little cronies and its coming back fast.

Now lets see in the last 24 the House voted on a bill that was totally unread, and of course the Republicans and several Democrats voted against it. How can they vote on something that was only in print in under 24? Someone surely read that we are going to spend 600 million addtional dollars for TV converter boxes? Think not? Its 1100 pages long. Speed reading thats the ticket. 1100 pages in 9 hours and then the impact to the budget... Yep.

That alone tells me its a load of shit. It simply isnt going to work and they are using our tax money to create a political state. WHEN they go after the media, right wing talk radio media without going after CNN/MSNBC/CBS/ABC with a "fairness doctrine" then you'll know. They will demand that WE pay for opposing views and not let the market decide who is right or wrong. Its Air America and you get to pay for it. How many hundred million for the Mall? How many for Performing Arts? Hey its a jobs package... it keeps ballerinas in work. Of course no one can afford to go to the show so well, we will just pay for that too.

Next they'll introduce gun control legislation and we will have to pay for a 100,000 man police force that is really an Obama Para-military police force. You dont give up the guns then we come and get them. Doesnt this sound a bit like the SS? Shit, I guess I am just supposed to sit back and ignore that kind of stuff. Hey its Obama's statements not mine. What do 100,000 law enforcement people do besides put Dunkin' Donuts out of business? Well you had better hope that they are never instituted or integrated into our country or you might just find out. Its not writing speeding tickets I can tell you.

Oh and Revere, I dont tell you how to doctor. Dont tell me that you know more about Hitler and Stalin. They were the subject of two different papers that I did. How many nights did you spend getting to know them. I spent six months, excluding weekends. How about Yasser Arafat and Idi Amin? They also were two subjects of my very young days. Quite close I was to them in fact. Then it was Danny Ortega and lets just say that he was in tactical range. Assessing the level of their evil if you will Revere. Like it was once said, we have to have the little wars to keep us out of the bigger ones.

I think you are what the world ought to be, I think though that I am the reality of it. Sometimes you have to make sure that everything is out there for information to draw a logical conclusion. This is a takeover and you want to EXPAND IT?

Control of the media is first..... Everything falls behind it. I am sure you didnt hear that 3 dozen banks may have to be "nationalized". Treasury's words not mine. Excuse me but we have an FDIC to back them up and not a nationalization policy.

Vilification of Obama by comparison Revere. Shit.... What do you call it when you takeover banks, media, socialize all healthcare, determine what people are going to make, whether contracts are voided because you were too fucking stupid to be allowed to sign it? This is an infringement on the lives of the working people and I am NOT talking about those people who the Democrats call workers. Its the ones who are going to have to pay for these idiots to have a job. So we get to just keep on spending til one day its over? Sorry, I call that Socialism for starts, then control of the above things totalitarianism and finally Communism when the takeover is complete. They all run hand in hand. Whats in a name? Comparison is what I am striking here and you find it offensive.... Sorry buddy, but its time someone took the gloves off on this crap.

Lea isnt stupid. She is a grown woman and she reads probably as much as I do. WE dont agree on a WHOLE lotta stuff. She rails on me privately and I love her pointed little head. BUT she like me can see where this is headed.

Can anyone do the math on 9.78 TRILLION DOLLARS and then the 55 TRILLION DOLLARS of unfunded mandates and what it means to our children? I dont think Excel can count that high and the costs to 300 million Americans. But fuck, I am just supposed to say-----"Its Obamanation" and just say okay because he is the first black President. I could give one big rat shit about his color except that its looking mighty, mighty pink and turning towards red. They all are and there is going to be Hell to pay in the near term and then the long term.

But that would just be me... I am DAFT!

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 13 Feb 2009 #permalink

Randy, in case you haven't noticed, there already has been an economic collapse. It happened under GWB. Obama has been President less than a month. The economy is a big thing. It can't move that quickly. The damage that occurred under GWB isn't fully apparent, that damage hasn't fully worked its way through the system.

When a person's heart stops, they don't die immediately. If you can get it started again, they can survive. If you wait too long, the lack of the supply of O2 and substrates to cells and the removal of waste products causes damage and eventually will kill more and more cells until there is the death of too much and the individual is dead.

An analogy can be made with the economy. The financial system got everyone hooked on credit. They used credit for things they shouldn't have, such as the latest wide screen TV, housing, food, medical care, gambling on housing and derivatives and unneeded wars. Credit was also used for things that were useful, such as working capital to finance inventory and for seasonal businesses.

Credit can be seen as analogous to blood. You need it to run things that are essential, like the heart, the brain, the lungs, the kidneys. It can also be used by things that are non-essential, or that are even detrimental such as tumors and parasites. Stopping the flow of blood will kill the tumors and parasites. It will also kill the other organs and kill the individual.

That is where we are right now; the banks have stopped the flow of credit. The economy is dying. If nothing it done large parts of it will die. Why have the banks stopped the flow of credit? Because they can, and because they feel they do not control a large enough fraction of the wealth that the nation generates. They will cause the economy to shrink until they do control a large enough fraction.

This is the danger of your zero-sum mentality.

Oh there we go again, any comment made is insane, crazy, racist and
above all totally off the wall.

Any comment? No. The comments I pointed to. And others, like this one:

This guy and the Bolshoi ballet are going to do this country in. They will create an economic collapse that the US will not recover from.

There are 20 states and growing that are about to declare their sovereignty. There is fully 48% of this voting population who are totally in disagreement on how to proceed and take issue with Obama and the Central Committee, and I am daft and mad? You know us guys down South with all of our guns and religion dont like our rights being trampled on.

So you are saying that 200 years after Lincoln's birth the Union is again going to split apart via an armed insurrection?

As for getting out from behind my desk, the world I live in isn't behind a desk. It is in an inner city medical center where real people die and get sick and don't have adequate medical care or food or shelter. As for down south, I spend every summer in the reddest of red southern states surrounded by retired military folks. I grew up in the heartland during McCarthy. I don't live in an echo chamber like TN where you only speak to the right wingers. I've had my bones broken and been jailed. I know something about what the country is and isn't like.

You know about Hitler and Stalin because you wrote a term paper about them? Give me a break. If you knew anything at all you'd never compare Obama who never ordered the killing of a single person to two monsters who killed millions each. What a sick joke. You are the one who lives in a parallel universe. Where I live things are different and they aren't wonderful. The people I deal with don't own businesses. They get laid off of businesses. Hell, I wrote a 63 page term paper on the Battle of Midway. Does that make me a military historian?

Control of the media? Most newspapers in this country are owned by Republicans. Fox News reads Republican press releases as if they were news, complete with typos. And you swallow them whole.

We agree about being unhappy about the size of the stimulus, only I think it needs to be at least three times bigger.

We do have something important in common with those European countries who you loathe so much. We are also a democracy. I suffered throught the last 8 nightmare years. Now it's your turn.

Revere not in an armed conflict I hope. , its already on the Legislative agenda in 20 states... 35 if they can get it in before spring. We do like to move within the law on the Republican side. The Dems just dont pay their taxes and ignore the law.

If they show up to collect weapons then they are going to be in trouble and very fast.

Real people die down here too Revere. We actually have them laid off and dying every day. Guess all of that big city tax and spend, coupled with that state big tax and spend, that will soon be added to by that Big Government tax and spend has gotten to the economy huh?

Big difference in a term paper and an intel assessment Revere. When Obama fails and he will at turning this around he is going to start a war. They always do. Yours was a term paper, mine wasnt.

You should recognize the parallels in the rise to power of Obama and the people he is surrounding himself with. Even with the suggested "partisanship" this has turned into a complete and total meltdown. He will figure that out in six months when his own party starts to turn on him. He is about as capable as Carter. Both were and are nice guys. Both were elected on very thin margins and thats going to start to turn around fast. Hey, on Tuesday we are going to become socialists even more... He is going to announce that the Feds are going to step in and either pay mortgages or force the banks to hold the bad paper until these people can get on their feet. Its not their fault right? I didnt sign the mortgage papers Revere. It was Freddie and Fannie both run by Dems who allowed the predatory lending. The oversight? It was B. Franks and C. Dodd, both of who were the biggest payoff takers from them to look the other way. I guess they arent racists, but ....would that make them thieves?

As for owning businesses... tell your patronage that they dont have a job up there because the healthcare is mandated and no one can afford to employ them anymore. It costs too much. better to have a Chinese guy do it. He works for zip. He has healthcare too. Maybe Cuba?

One thing is sure Revere. Employment would be up if we didnt have welfare in this country. No doubt about it. Shoving the costs back onto business and the people that actually are working. Typical... Your money doesnt belong to you. It belongs to the government because they say that someone else who is less fortunate deserves it.

Collapse is the result of this and we are headed for it like a rocket.

As for the stimulus, three times bigger is typical leftist/Democrat. We cant spend our way out of this one... Not going to happen. Only supply side AND TAX CUTS are going to turn it around.

Personally Revere, I give it three years max before this implodes and the thing breaks apart. Sometimes its better to just not play the game. Sometimes its better to hand it back to the people who implemented it. Time to demand that the Constitution be followed and that doesnt mean that you take someone elses things in lieu of another.

Be sure to take a ride on the new train track, and stay warm with that green crap thats actually going to raise electricity prices. Oil will pound the hell out of us in two years because of inflation and then...they'll raise taxes and the interest rates.

If I am wrong, then so is Wall Street who isnt buying this "stimulus" at all. Porcine puckey is what this is. And BTW it wasnt 3 Republicans who stood in the way of this, it was ALL OF THEM. Like minded people acting as a team. The Senators? Well they are going to have to pack their bags because they are outta there. Zero support in their re-elections.

This wasnt a stimulus.... it was a simulus. I wont have to suffer long at all Revere. Maybe 2 at the most.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 14 Feb 2009 #permalink

Randy; We get it. You don't like it. Your reasons are the Talking Points of the RCCC and RNC. Except theirs are shorter. Do I understand you correctly that you did an intel assessment of Hitler and Stalin. What moron paid for that? I want my tax money back. Typical.

Yeah, you are going to need it to pay for your new taxes.....…

Even the libs get it.... The government is going to be sustained on paper money. Therefore they HAVE to raise interest rates and taxes to cover the float. They will have to mortgage the debt to someone and just who would that be? Well, lets just see when the first tax increase comes, interest rates? Oh, about two years as inflation goes off the scale and then tips it back over the other way.

Yes Revere, an intel assessment with the previously mention jerks for analogous behaviors. Even the CIA does them using people that are in jail, in office, going to be in office and probably Democrats and Republicans... call them for a check.

Here is some nice political and economic reading for you Revere. You are probably one of the few people who would understand it, but you are also like one of the first people to discount it.,%20Socialism%20an…

Did I mention the trade war? Its EXACTLY the thing that turned the 1929 recession into a Depression.…

They didnt learn in 1933 and might I remind you that TVA is a DEMOCRAT created semi-public agency. Hmmm... selective on my part? ABSOLUTELY!

Doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past only this time we dont have any industry to fall back on. Dont look for any cuts in defense spending either.. bad for the economy.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 14 Feb 2009 #permalink

Nobody is saying there it doesn't cost money. We can thank Iraq for much of this. But since that's too impersonal, I'll just thank you.

Wait, Randy, you just linked to the World Net Daily. I mean World Nut Daily. Are you sure you really want to cite a WND story and are you really trying to be taken seriously, or has this been a farce all along?

No SRR.... The facts are that I was saying this two months ago... When it was only 55 Trillion in unfunded mandates.

So if the benefits for just Medicare and SS are the only thing in it, which they arent the entire projection produces a super number of 102 trillion dollars between now and 2070. If the 3-4 trillion is worth 32,000 to every man and woman in the country living today as taxes then the 2070 number of 102 trillion number is 30 or so times that. We could haggle over the number over a trillion, but it doesn't matter even if they are half right in 2070. What they are saying is that not including inflation which is low today, it accounts for 80% of a buck in 2070 regardless of its value. So if we have COLA's and the like then its going to mean we are bust in under 5 years as the number of people entering retirement age are going to suck it all up.

But lets do expand this spending to three times what it is now. Mind again that this is JUST Medicare and Social Security. Both should be ended immediately. There is no system that is going to work if its government run. No private entity is going to be able to survive if government is in the same business. It would be done to fund all of the other bullshit programs which there were 200 ADDED as of yesterday. Permanent welfare programs. They are trying to put people ON welfare rather than taking them off.

I wouldnt want to be Pelosi and Reid a year from now as all of this starts to equate to incredible tax and interest rates. Obama? He hasnt got a clue.…

And Revere acts like we are a bunch of country hicks down South with our Guns and Religion, and the first amendment with the sovereign states declaration permitted in it.

The nut cutting is about to start.

SRR-IHT, CNN, Time, and USA Today were all commenting in the last two weeks or less about this. The prescription drug benefit that the Dems insisted HAD to be included for a mere 400 billion. After politics it was 540 billion. Oh woes is me, I cant afford my prescriptions so the government is going to have too.. Okay, I can see part of it. But 5 trillion alone in the next 10 years?

Its starting to stack up and I wouldnt give us until 2070, I wouldnt give it til 2012 before it collapses because if they dont buy our debt as bonds, T-bills as the world looks at our numbers then the prescription drug benefit is going to be the least of our worries. Third world nation stuff. We have to have the military, but not a drug benefit. We have to pay SS and Medicare costs. Cut it off NOW and let people spend their money the way they want. E.g. if you are born tomorrow, you have to bear the tax burdens that are known and out there until 65 years from tomorrow. Slowly the ship will right itself if they do.

Cut AlL unecessary spending and gimme's and put a time limit of not more than one year on welfare of any kind in any state. Prices of labor will drop as a result. This will take them off the welfare rolls. After that, they are on their own.

Sorry but its very simple and its economics 101. Dont spend more than you make even for the military. The Middle East would be happy because all that funny money they have sucked out of us across the last 30 years would be worth more suddenly.

And the dollar would be king.

Basic stuff... Even the libs are starting to understand whats coming...

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 15 Feb 2009 #permalink


A year ago, we dialogued, and you said, "You are the mistake of your parents." and "We are living by the script of our last generation."

I have read your posts for a year and thought of your self-disclosures; and I think that maybe now it is the time you can think that you are the master of your life- you can make a good decision for your self and others.

I have commented several time in this thread; you've lived in the past.

You do have talent and enormous energy; I believe that Revere has spent energy for you because he has love for you, don't make him too disappointed. I was disappointed long time a ago; I thought that you were a hilarious nihilist- you read it before-I was not saying at your back. I am sorry, if I have taken your posts seriously, I could not sleep well.


You assume too much.

Paiwan... If you think that there is something else to add to 55 trillion dollars which is really between 102 to 103 trillion as reported in several newspapers and other links then fine. If I am right, then I can only hope that its only incrementally. The real numbers are starting to come out onto the table because its the law now. By any accounts just the Medicare/Social Security is 55 TRILLION dollars. SRR please do hit the next post. Its straight from law now and from the Congressional budget office.

BTW Paiwan, I think Revere is a great guy. I would want him working my damaged spleen or what have you because he represents a great medical career and a greater ability. The enormous care that he would expend on my or someone elses body if they were injured would raise heaven and earth.

But, then someone would have to pay for it.

I have a post thats held up til he can release it. It takes care of SRR's questions... srr is upset over which papers now deliver the bad news. The AP is wildly left of center and now they are asking the ugly questions too. Even the Lefty Londoners papers are calling into question this spendathon that we just got through with... But none are addressing the facts and that is that the US debt...all inclusive is more than the ENTIRE WORLDS GDP. In other words Pai, the answer to the question is worse than the question. I really dont see a way out... None. Zero. Even if we cut spending and then went frugal for the next 20 years, Social Security is going to be worthless to the older people. Hence the reason I said we are so screwed in the US that it doesnt matter what we do. Oh, they'll scream the Republicans did it, the Republicans will scream that the Democrats did it. But the bottom line is that the US did it to themselves by not being in the front lines and allowing these people to take control. Lobbyists, crooked politicians, payoffs... I would have them tried of course but the capital crimes list in my book would be adding a few new line items. Even the bankers who we just bailed out and all the corporate executives who were sacking the companies are going to be very sad if the money goes to zero... Whats next Euro's?

Does this lead to one world government? Maybe, but only after a protracted war and one in which hundreds of millions die. I have reconciled myself to this and postured accordingly. Revere calls it survivalist. Depends on what you call survival and in what environment. If the banks melt down here and they are nationalized then Obama and the Congress will have total control. The only event I can think of that would cause that would be the dollar devaluating and/or a mass deflation event. If deflation occurs then its game over. They are flooding the system with liquidity, but the first thing they should have done was go after the toxic debt..They didnt. The banks would have been fine if the government had bought it up.

Revere thinks that things are going to get better. No, they are going to get worse, terrible in fact. Since these newly mandated 200 programs are law then they will have two choices, scrap them or face the music when the bills come due. There is still some time to dump them, but not much. Once the spiral starts for Medicare/Social Security we wont recover from it. I noted a terrible discomfort in Obama's voice when questioned about this stuff. I learned long ago to watch body language and the eyes. Each time this comes up his eyes divert to the ground. That means that he really knows and Wall Street already does. Just watch and wait and see how things play out. There will be no economic turnaround ANYWHERE in the world as best I can see it except perhaps in China. They too will feel the heat.

What are the answers Paiwan? The severity of those answers if I was in charge would be catastrophic for the people. This would mean a cutoff to the poor who are on welfare of some kind as I would start by establishing a cutoff date, but the country would survive. 65% of our budget in the US and the states is welfare of some kind. The states are sinking rapidly now. California is the battleground and they are indicative of whats coming in the US... What do we do one day if the money is worth technically nothing?

That is the biggest question out there and its beginning to loom. The budget deficit for January 2009 is 2 trillion dollars and projected to increase. This is JANUARY ONLY....

If America falls then you have to anticipate there will be war.... A big one.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 15 Feb 2009 #permalink


Thank you for your calm and thoughtful comments on my blunt and sincerely comments.

The economists who are including the advisors of McCain & GWB, the Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, English economist-Engers(Long time ago) have/had confirmed the right decision of stimulus plan. Especially Mr. Paul Krugman who had predicted Asian Economic Storm and this time predicted this Economy Crisis of the United States and tendered the warning earlier than the true happening. This foresight and contribution has won him the Nobel Prize. The recent article perhaps you have read already.…
In this article, Krugman clearly states that 800 billion definitely not enough, as Revere indicates must be more than three times of this.
He didnât agree with Obamaâs bipartisan strategy and says it is too soft in the beginning of Obamaâs administration. Nevertheless, I like Obamaâs bipartisan. Anyway, maybe this difference makes Obamaâs President and Krugmanâs Nobel laureate in Economics. Obama is a very tolerable and inclusive person so to speak.
Obama indeed is a very good President, I have often heard the praises from Both Asian friends and American friends here-the sense of pride to be American ascending! Your opinions on him are baseless and irrational. Quote your â. I noted a terrible discomfort in Obama's voice when questioned about this stuff. I learned long ago to watch body language and the eyes. Each time this comes up his eyes divert to the ground.â Your ridiculous fathoming ability indeed is your hallucination. Hey, you smoke marjuâ¦. :-) Shiâ¦. So, please stop criticizing as above, otherwise you will soon earn the title Champion LOL.
Since you sound calm and open-minded now, let me share my comment frankly here:
1.You know the story of 5 cakes/ 2 fishes story in the bible. 800 billion is very small like 5 cakes/2 fishes. When the country full hearted offers this selfishly, the blessings onwards will arrive uopn the country. You see now the grass-root level in the United States; even Republicans are behaving very generously and decently.
2.The economic principle that agreed among economists now basically is referring to the story of a person who owns 5,000 Baht and he uses entirely and earns more, he gets praise. Another person who owns 1,000 Baht and he hides underground and earns nothing, he gets punishment.
3.The third Bible story- The rich man and Lazarus; Luke 16:19-31. The people without compassion when the surrounding people need the sharing are not acceptable.

You know better than me about the passages, because you have brilliant bishop to guide you.

One thing that I would like to say, I agree with you that GWB will be judged by history, just like every public figure. It will take some time. Personally I like his style-hedgehog style. I am this kind of style. ;-) Stubborn a bit but consistent.

Then Paiwan, you are deluding yourself about what is about to happen. If it needed to be three times what was done then its over. You didnt think it through. If I am right and I believe I am then the US has completely done itself and the world in. They tried this same stuff in FDR's days and some 20% of the US was out of work. My mother used to tell me horror stories of people showing up with full families and asking if they could stay for the night in their barn having walked 15 and 20 miles across a day with children.

So, it matters not what we do now. The facts are that it was too little or we have spent ourselves to the point that there will not even be welfare, which isnt a bad thing. But the people will suffer terribly either way because the economy WILL NOT turn around. That means Asia will head down and the rest of the world with it. This is what happens when you try to set a stage for regulations and restrictions that only apply to your own economy, or in this case not enough. Then an event happens that starts dominos falling.

Obama hasnt been in office for 30 days Pai, you cant call him a good President based on that. I have always had pride as an American. I have pride in the fact that only 40 years after full desegregation that he could be elected. I didnt want him elected but only because of his views on things. How he performs will set the bar for many to come... Oh my God! Whats next Margaret Thatcher?

As for the US situation. Watch for something else to come in and finish us off.

Natural Disaster?

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 16 Feb 2009 #permalink

Oop! Randy. In fact, we have missed the most important topic for debate here; and I have to say that some one here can not look forwards and stuck in ideological blockage.

I listened to Obama's first press conference; at least this important topic was there, I was glad. I am not going to debate with you now, unless you have finished reading Paul Krugman's material as per my last posted.

Can you comment on his article?

Pai, Yeah I read it the day it came out. The New York Times isnt read too terribly much anymore, as is the Boston Globe, the San Fran Chronicle and mostly because they are left wing mouthpieces. Krugman was one of the ones that I read that was unhappy... But he wanted MORE spending. He too is acknowledging that this wont work. We should have attacked the basic problem and say used the tax money to buy up the toxic debt, paid the banks the interest but not the principal on these marginals who were getting booted out for say six months and forced a bankruptcy at GM and Chrysler. The assertion was that we were going to save 3 million jobs. Uh huh... and so far they have saved zero, and they wont save the 3 million either. But we can spend 2.75 trillion trying. You know, building train tracks and roads. That REALLY helps save those jobs.

Oh, we Republicans have our mouthpieces too as Srr would indicated about the IHT and others. But the bottom line is the numbers. Those are the numbers that there had to be a law put out just to get the real damned numbers. Now that they are out and in the open, those numbers account for the entire GDP of the entire world in debt of the US. If this monkey doesnt climb up, the collapse WILL take the rest of the planet with it.

It will lead to adventurism, attacks to get natural resources such as the Spratleys /Paracels down in the Philippines. Oh, this dog is just beginning to hunt.

Even demand for gold will fall to nothing because even though there will be a lot of gold ownership, who will be able to afford or trade in it? It will be measured in paper and frankly paper isnt worth the shit written on it.

Today....Kansas says that they will NOT be able to process payments of refunds to people there who paid their taxes and are due that refund. Reason given? They dont have the cash. That is a taking under both state and federal law. They would prosecute you if you didnt pay your taxes, now they owe you money and they said screw you.

California... did it last month. Same thing. Now what do WE do when we are due refunds from the federal government in April when they are unable to put them out? Let them defer? Not on your butt. Taxation is what has gotten us to this stage. We tax, we cut, we tax we cut and our taxation has now gotten out of control. We are taxing for a welfare state now and with the numbers that are already looming, we are going to lose the farm. Outlays are now higher than intake... Then they want to spend more?

Three times what Krugman said? He is INSANE ! The deficit can be cut in an instant with the announcement that we will as of say 12/31/09 no longer have social security for those children born after that date. Same with Medicare. Then we can start going after the pork which is hidden behind spending package. Theoretically there are taxes that are safeguarded for those two programs... There isnt and that makes them insolvent. The actual reserves in the treasury are almost 500 billion dollars behind what has to be laid out this month, next month its going to be about 500 billion plus another 200 billion. The escalation of this is going to finish us and fast. If you have dollars, dump them for Euro's or gold/silver. But be prepared for this to devalue as well. It will just be worth something afterwards, but not what you paid for it.

Commodities... actually owning a couple of acres of corn or wheat might not be a bad idea. People will still have to eat.

If you think that 3 times would turn it around Pai, it might have but not with the obligations down the road. We are done hon, and anyone who cant recognize this is in denial.

Like I said. One big disaster would finish us because then the insurance companies would be gone too. No nets, no GDP, no industry, no one to provide a "service" in a service industry to. All the underpins have come out and well the second hit to this is coming. Obamas' "Buy American" is counter to the GATT and just about every trade treaty we have. But we are not the only ones. The Indonesians implemented that this week by mandate, "Buy Indonesian."

Wonder what is going to happen when the protectionism starts? Will Obama end up declaring martial law? Stay tuned. Revere doesnt think it can happen. He will believe it when the collapse hits home. No insurance and no welfare state to pay for his services and capabilities. Novel concept this is... Kind of like it was until the 1940's

By M. Randolph Kruge (not verified) on 16 Feb 2009 #permalink

Well, Revere, if illegally funneling taxpayer money from private citizens to private corporations is not appaling to you, then I conclude that our economic views are irreconcilible.

I contend that private monies earned in pay for labor are to remain private to an extent prescribed, and fully defended, by law. Furthermore I contend that there exists todate no law to legally transfer private money from individuals (taxpayers) to corporations for any cause of bailing out failed instiututions. TARP I and TARP II have no Constitutional legal grounds for existance and as such are illegal seizures of money from citizens.

The banking industry, from Lehman Brothers to CitiGroup and every toxic asset in between, has demonstrated a terminal cancer of failed accounting. Suckering in citizens to sign for mortgages they cannot afford is both irresponsible and hazardous for all. Middle class Americans should not be financially punsihed for the egregious mistakes of the miscalculating wealthy. I do not believe, however, that the solution to our current economic depression is a re-shuffling of debt from failed banks, car manufacturers, insurance agencies, and weapons contractors to taxpayers. Private property should not be taken by the Government to pay off private debts, no matter how large or small, because such a transference of one man's earned payment to another man's failed debt is fundamentally irresponsible.

If my position is deemed to be unacceptable, a position of individual rights to property without arbitrary Government intervention, then I demand opponents to clarify to what extent private property should be nationalized.

CAP: I don't like it but I dislike major recessions/depressions more. It is constitutional to tax people. You might not like what they do with the money (I resent every dollar spent on the military and their contractors) but that's the way the system works. I'd nationalize the banks and the auto industry. Then they wouldn't be private companies any more. And we are in agreement.

Now there's the Democrat/Progressive/Socialist/Communist position and that of Obamanation. The last one is that they would just take it and say to hell with you.. WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT !

Nationalization has occurred in EVERY nation that went socialist/communist. It goes back to that totalitarian government I spoke of waaaay back at the top. Thats the reason we have bankruptcy laws. Revere suggesting the nationalization would be the way to go. Well that will simply be communist..All jobs will be provided by the government, you will make what they tell you. I hope this sounds very familiar about the Stalin/Hitler totalitarianism comments previously. Revere took issue with it, now he suggests it. Hmmm.....

None of this was or is going to save 3 million jobs. But it sure spent a lot of money to give it to private entities. Cap, the difference is that we are getting the crappy end of the stick and they get to keep their jets, high pay (500K aint bad potatoes) and stock options. Me, those options are the raisins on the coffee cake. If this pulls out and they exercise those options as the stocks escalate it will be better than any money they were going to make anyway. Recovery on the Taxpayers dime. If it doesnt recover its not a Great Depression... its a liquidation of sorts this time out. Best part is that we recover after a few years. The other way we will just struggle along and nothing will change except that one day government fails completely. Already happening in Kansas and California. They took your money... You aint getting it back even though by law you are supposed to. They follow the law until it doesnt work for them and then they change it.

Oh... As for nationalization, we see that happening then we will see little boxes run around with government subsidy written all over them. They wont be worth a shit, they will be run on subsidized ethanol that will absorb water and cook their little E-85 engines, they will get the same mileage as my pickup truck when the A/C is on in the summer, and the byproducts of ethanol manufacture are as bad as any chemical dump and they dont work hardly at all in cold weather...But we will be forced to submit!!!!

We will also see the end of the auto biz in the US. Why? Well we already know how well government has handled the financial crisis... So now we are putting them in charge of the one true industry that we had left. This is nothing more than a union bailout....Payoff. But some choose to ignore that. But thats okay, its Obamanation. The ride ends when there is nothing left to spend.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 16 Feb 2009 #permalink

Randy: We get it. You think Democrats are Communists and are going to take over the government. Like FDR did. Enougyh already. You've made your point. It's a dumb one, but you made it. Let's move on. Or else start your own blog and you can talk about whatever you want for as long as you want in any terms you want to whomever you want. Just got to and send us the URL. We'll visit.

CAP, Randy:

We all know that if an important bridge between two cities is broken down, immediately we have to fix it. The goods and business activities have to continue between these two cities; we can not afford to let the bridge shut down without fixing it.

For me and my business friends, bank is like a bridge of connecting business transactions; without banking system how the L/C could be opened? Without L/C, the foreign trading nearly impossible.

I guess that is the reason why in the grassrootsâ level, Democratic and Republic are supporting the rescue of banking system; they have to eat, have to work and have to sustain the business.

Washington DC's politicians finally have to follow this. You know why the Republican Cabinet minister candidate withdrew his nomination? because Obama administration has kept contacting grassrootsâ level- town meetings. This has upset the politicians in Washington D.C. which has the long standing notoriety and infamous habits. This is indeed not the fault of Obama; it has been the illness which everyone knows. Obama just do the right thing. What is wrong with keeping the decision process transparent and to inform the public?

As how to rescue the banking system, there are several ways: nationalization is just one of them, expert like Paul Krugman is favoring this choice.

CAP, you have to answer if we want to fix the bridge/ restore banking service or not.

Randy, please give us a name of economist in the United States who is against the restoration of banking system.

CAP, I got your message that tax money could not go to private firms, but how to restore the financial flow, any constructive proposal?

Paiwan-Nationalization will likely result in a full blown revolt by the states. I wouldnt suggest it. The guy didnt pull his nomination for that Paiwan. It was because he couldnt stomach what was going on. He was going to be a Republican overseeing a nothing economy. One that simply cannot quit spending money that they dont have.

I disagree about this not being Obamas fault. It is according to the left wing media, specifically the NY Times, who said that "this was a major victory for President Obama."

So now they have their scapegoat if it doesnt work. I doubt it will. I have been through 5 of these recessions and this is the first one where we dont have a safety net. Its an all or nothing and I am betting nothing.

But Krugman has been terribly wrong before. He is going to be wrong on this one too. It doesnt get rid of the basic problems and rub within this government. LIMITED GOVERNMENT and not any huge bureacracy that is going to add more numbers. Nor does it address the welfare system in this country. In fact his latest is going to ADD to it and make more people eligible. This isnt going to work because the ONLY way he can do that now is to tax or get someone to buy the debt. The US is 2 trillion dollars in the red right now for just this month. GET THAT NUMBER... its a Congressional Budget Office number and not one that I made up. That means that if it continues and all of the gimme programs come into being that we are going to have about a 24 trillion dollar debt with an interest rate of currently 4% coming due. We cannot sustain that.

You need to quit reading so much Krugman Paiwan... He is lefting your brain into a spendathon mentality. We already have had that be it Democrat or Republican. Time to cut spending rather than increase it. Use the existing laws and everything will be fine in under two years. They spend any more and its game over. The it will be mandated and might end in martial law.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 16 Feb 2009 #permalink

"Randy, please give us a name of economist in the United States who is against the restoration of banking system."

OK, Randy:

I am open-minded to check what you posted. You have said that 'an internationally recognized Nobel laureate who is also a Princeton scholar, plus his proven record of Asian Economy Storm prediction' is not right to you. I can disregard his proven record and test your alternative solution. Since you are not an economist, so you need to let me know your referenced economist- his qualification and proven record, otherwise your post is not cogent.

In fact, left or right is no meaning to me; nevertheless progressive or retarded is very important to me.

Let us exchange and make a deal; I agree with you that âI say Obama is a good Presidentâbased on 27 days is not right to you. You based on 27 days to classify his administration as communist, H. totalitarianism, etc is not right to me. So, both of us abandon these two statements. Acceptable to you?

Please let me know what your economists are, please!

"I disagree about this not being Obamas fault. It is according to the left wing media, specifically the NY Times, who said that "this was a major victory for President Obama."

This sentence sounds very familiar-the voice of terrorist of Middle East to me. You know what, they think that the newspaper in the United States is not independent, is controlled by ...

Are you an American? I start to doubt about your background.

You may have a long wait for the names of those economists, paiwan.

This is the same Voice of All Knowledge who equated the 9mm Parabellum cartridge with the Luger P08.

Well, Charles and Randy, this blog has archive. So we can review the authentic record:

"....and I agree on one thing and it tangentalizes from there. If any of the Ultra-Left wing stuff comes to pass that he suggested and that could be the gun issue, then you wont have to worry about anything past that. The second they show up to collect all the weapons, there is going to be a civil war. Not a north and south one this time around, it would be between conservatives armed with weapons and liberals armed with newly passed laws that violate the constitution. There arent enough soldiers out there to pull that one off and those soldiers know the Constitution better than most. They also know that the places where they are legally owned would outgun them and outshoot them by I think the number is 300 to 1. I know, they'll just designate us as terrorists and then use the IRS instead.

But I have to say that this even this bum deserves our support as President of the United States. If he pulls something that is incredibly agenda oriented he will lose that support. I would give him the time of day first even as I put up another what an Obama Nation means to you. I can always be wrong. He can too, but he has to convince me and 435 and change members of Congress that what he is proposing is right. Nope, aint getting out of Iraq. Nope, aint going to raise capital gains taxes and a long litany of broken campaign promises. He isnt even appointing ultra lefties to the Cabinet. Those So. Democrats aint stupid and anyone signing on to a gun ban bill would be immediately voted out or worse. We do like our guns and religion down here. But thats the best thing about America, even the founding fathers were packing at all times.Obama could end up being a really good President if he pulls back to the center rather than what he was elected on-Change. Change could also be bad in a lot of areas. Change in the US has to occur slowly but even now in Tennessee and the places where he didnt coat tail wins there are moves now to rescind at the state level those things that we the population never had a vote or a voice on or in. Most of the state constitutions are the same. Some states just offered up their veins back during the Kennedy years for liberalism and now the suggested socialism. No way that 56% is going to be able to force this issue of weapons on the 44%. Simply not going to happen."

I only can quote Obama's monologue, "I'm an eternal optimist," " but does'nt mean I am a sap."

The train of change has been moving, Charles. I suppose that Randy slowly agrees also.

Here is something for both of you. Sit, wait, and masturbate... The change that has come isnt what even the left wanted as noted by the "3 times the stimulus". You guys can get into what is known as a circle jerk and continue lauding Obama and the decisions that were made. None of the pundits to this agreed with the stimulus package, and that included the lefties. Too small, wrong stuff, and above all does nothing to stimulate the economy. Paiwan-its time to end this one because it seems to escape you that only 3 Repbulican Senators voted for this and NONE of the House Republicans did. Several Democrats voted against it too. I also agreed with the House Minority Leader that no one could have possibly read the thing in under 12 hours to the vote. I personally have been going through it and it gives money for everything under the sun and now the cash cow is dead. They can borrow no more, so to sustain this the tax rate WILL go up. Revere who insists that everyone can pay more taxes may or may not want to retract that statement.

This is also a bill that induces people to go onto welfare. I dont know where he stands on anything but healthcare which is a form of welfare. I wonder if he would be happy to know that the people that are milking the system, the people who are just baby factories for welfare just got a pay raise? Four sisters in Illinois for instance got 547,000 dollars last year because they had 17 illegitmate children from mulitple fathers. Big surprises are in store yet and more to come. Or how about a system that pays an idiot to have octuplets? All government, all free.... to them while the real working people struggle and will lose their homes this year because of this socialist bullshit that we have goat roped ourselves into. It will finish this country.

Charles feel free to identify yourself just any time now. I think that I know who you are... I just want to confirm it. I found out who Revere was on my own. It only took three weeks...

Have a nice Orwellian day now, HEAR!

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 17 Feb 2009 #permalink

Take a break, Randy. I will not respond to you three months.
Take care of yourself.

Charles feel free to identify yourself just any time now. I think that I know who you are... I just want to confirm it. I found out who Revere was on my own. It only took three weeks...

Some nice clear hostility there. I hit a nerve.

Randy, I have no intention of identifying myself, here or anywhere else I don't deem it wise.

Internet BS artists and loudmouthed bullies are not my main worry, BTW. As for what is, that is none of your concern.

Have a nice Orwellian day now, HEAR!

Better and better.

Are you implying that you identified me by the misuse of classified NSA electronic communications intercepts? And in print, on a public forum? Randy, if you do have the clearance you'ld need to access that information, what you just wrote could, and yet may, get it revoked in a fast heartbeat. At minimum.

From there, the possibilities get nastier.

I don't care for the NSA. But I don't assert, even by implication, that I have access to their data, let alone misuse it, as you just did. I'm not a fool.

Just how hot do you like your water, Randy? Boiling?

But then, if you know exactly where to look, and how, and are willing to spend the quality time to put together the right data, you could probably manage to identify me without even committing a Federal felony. Of course, if you asserted that you did it that way, it wouldn't imply you misused US Government intelligence data. So you would also lose the implied association with power.

So step up to the plate and tell us how you did it.

Typical response Charles. And I really do want you to have a nice day. You too Pai.

Charles, I did it perfectly legally. As I did when I identified Revere. I first thought he was in Minnesota... He wasnt. So if I were using something illegally it wouldnt have pointed in the wrong direction. Watching a few things on the computer, then checking them out.

You have it on your computer if you choose to go and look for it. As for the echelon ref, all I am saying old son is that you should be aware of your surroundings. I know I am.

Thats it... Have that nice day now both of you.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 17 Feb 2009 #permalink

Glad to hear you won't be speaking to the Feds in their official capacity anytime soon.

But I also noticed that you deflected the question without answering it. No surprises there.

As for being aware of one's surroundings? Randy, if you really do know who I am, then you can also calculate just how little Echelon worries me, and why.

Charles and Revere:
What I have known about America is no one live above the law and everyone is equal under the law, and every one is free from fear.

In our country, the military personnel are totally under the control of civilian government. When Obama administration is going to propose and legalize the expansion (for instance 2 times or 3 times whatever), the only place is debating in the Congress. I think that FBI would be interested in interviewing Randy's military friends what are their plans and action. Perhaps someone can report on this.

As to someone who is surveying private residence and implying that he has special way of controlling people, this is a kind of threat, or at least a kind of harassment. This kind of post should not appear on this blog.

Now for you left wing nutcases who feel threatened here is how you do it. The military versions below are of course much better and even these with a few mods can generate just about anyones information up. Then you use WHOIS to see who the owner of the IP address is. Sometimes you just get the ISP provider, sometimes you get the big potato as to who the actual end user. You also have as I said a program on your computer that will give you a lot of info. Up to you to find out what it is though. You might want to start a hard drive seach with the keyword...TRACE .

If you get the big potato, then all you have to do then is pull the info, make a few connections vis-a-vis the phone directory, company directories, etc. and then"Skywalker, I have you now."

You folks are the first to limit peoples rights, and also the first to jump off a cliff if you think you are being infringed upon.

As I said Paiwan...Typical lefties. By all means purchase one of these programs and look for mine too. If you want, I'll give you my address to save you the time and hassle. I am in the book. Pick up the phone and call me.

How about the local Feds number?..I know them well. Work with them from time to time. DHS/Border Patrol, USCustoms, USFWS.... Got them all. Want their numbers?

You are just a bit paranoid I think. When you load up EM, watch the bottom. You are loading up spyware, sometimes viruses, adware, malware. Each one is logging everything you do. Legal as it comes. That info is there and you provided it when you hit the enter key. Its data mining and its not hard to both protect and access it.

But, I am sure that you would rather complain.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 18 Feb 2009 #permalink

When you load up EM, watch the bottom. You are loading up spyware, sometimes viruses, adware, malware. Each one is logging everything you do. Legal as it comes. That info is there and you provided it when you hit the enter key. Its data mining and its not hard to both protect and access it.

You're not "loading up" on any of the above-mentioned nasties if you have decent controls in place.

Most people don't bother. I do. And my trusted network has multiple layers of defense, some on the perimeter, some on each system, with overlapping coverage. Malware, adware, tracking cookies, all have to run gauntlets before they get from my border router to the hard drives of a trusted system.

If an active threat such as executable malware makes it all the way in, it'll get noticed by automated systems very soon after it pops live. Assuming I don't notice it myself first. I have multiple process monitors running on all my systems, and I'm familiar with what should and should not be running on each.

And I know more than enough about Windows and Linux system architecture to find and remove such a threat, once I become aware of its existence. Not hard. Anything on a filesystem can be removed from that filesystem if you search for a known bit pattern within the hostile file. Or, more practically, even just the timestamp, since most criminals do a "just good enough" sort of job and leave the timestamps on their malware intact.

Worst comes to worst, and my system disk becomes a mere data disk, being scanned by a foreign operating system the embedded malware is not designed to compromise.

I guess you don't really know what I do for a living after all, Randy. Unless your remarks were directed specifically at paiwan.

This thread puts the Energizer Bunny to shame.

Oh, you just confirmed it Charles.. Thx.

Hi Lea.


By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 18 Feb 2009 #permalink

94 comments on this thread, is that a record revere?

Hi MRK. Does this mean I just might get the last word in ?

The anointed ones latests numbers. You can comment if you want but he is down an overall 5% in a week but up 10% in those who already disapproved or were fence sitting. That outliers as Revere said about Rasmussen, was within the 5% spread and well within it for those that were normally quoted.

The other latest one is that by almost 8 to 2 hard number that Americans didnt want the sub-prime homeowners to get any bailout. CNBC......

You can comment if you want, but this just proves what I said already.

BTW the latest is that the guy who said Peak Oil and that we are on the downward slide said that oil is going to do the Obama Administration in during 2010... 500 a barrel oil... Forbes this month.

So for now... Obama has a 62.3% approval average... Watch that melt away faster than "Mission Accomplished." To me this is old ground with a new fish to fry...

Carter in a new box.

RCP Average02/12 - 02/18--62.328.5 +33.8
FOX News02/17 - 02/18900 RV6026+34
Gallup02/16 - 02/181500 A6225+37
Rasmussen Reports02/16 - 02/181500 LV6039+21
Associated Press/GfK02/12 - 02/171001 A6724+43
Rasmussen02/11 - 02/131500 LV6039+21
Gallup02/10 - 02/121500 A6621+45
Democracy Corps (D)02/09 - 02/101000 LV5827+31
Ipsos/McClatchy02/06 - 02/091042 A6926+43
CNN02/07 - 02/08806 A7623+53
Pew Research02/04 - 02/081303 A6417+47
Gallup02/05 - 02/071500 A6422+42
Rasmussen02/03 - 02/051500 LV6136+25
CBS News02/02 - 02/04864 A6215+47
Gallup02/02 - 02/041012 A6520+45
Democracy Corps (D)01/26 - 01/291000 LV5520+35
FOX News01/27 - 01/28900 RV6516+49
Gallup01/25 - 01/271500 A6416+48
Rasmussen01/25 - 01/271500 LV6236+26
Hotline/FD01/21 - 01/24800 RV639+54
Gallup01/21 - 01/231591 A6812+56

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 19 Feb 2009 #permalink

Rick Santelli CNBC pretty much has the last word on it anyway Lea... I look for them to fire him at any minute...After all GE owns CNBC and they are getting BAILOUT money.

But .... I am Daft. Shouldnt listen to the rants of a madman... Listen to Rick instead. I think that he has the pulse of Wall Street that fell another 500 points on the announcement of bailout money going to the subprime idiots again.

I repeat...They could buy every subprime home up and then resell them to qualified govt buyers for about 150 billion. 3.5 trillion now and the bad paper keeps piling up.

Finished in the first 100 days.... or less.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 19 Feb 2009 #permalink

I repeat...They could buy every subprime home up and then resell them to qualified govt buyers for about 150 billion.

Where does that figure of 150 billion come from?



"There are other symptoms of declining confidence. Gold, the ultimate inflation hedge, is flirting with $1,000 an ounce. Standard & Poor's Ratings Services, a unit of McGraw-Hill Cos., predicted Thursday that large financial institutions still need to write down $135 billion in subprime-related securities, on top of $150 billion in previous write-downs. Ordinary Americans are worried: Only 20% think the country is generally headed in the right direction, nearly as low as at any time in the Bush presidency, according to the latest Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll."

This was as of Jan 30, 09.... The 135 billion is where Bernanke/Giethner stepped in and said hold it a minute. The reason they did? The money that was already given wasnt used to stabilize, it was used to capitalize for acquisitions such as First City, WaMu, and BoA. Now they STILL have the crap on the books and its dragging their ratings down.

They are worried? I wonder how they feel about taking from people who work and giving to people that dont. Like its OUR problem? Give it to people that made mistakes. People "who did nothing wrong"?

I think its wrong that I am having to bail out both Wall Street and stupid people. Rever would likely ban one of those... I dont know which.
OH, BUT WAIT...CAN YOU BELIEVE IT, NO, IT CANT BE .... THE ANOINTED ONE IS GOING TO RAISE TAXES ON THE "WEALTHY" WHICH IS MEANS THAT HE IS GOING TO TANK THE REST OF THE ECONOMY. Carter did the SAME thing. And he implemented a 38c a gallon gas tax for, "development of alternative energy sources." Ahem....

Prophet added to my name. That will be the FIRST thing that he does. It will still send money off shore, but less as it fills up the coffers of the US... Just like it did under Carter. But, it will do nothing for the economy. In fact, they will just spend it under the auspices of yet another load of bullshit.


TAX THE RICH? Hey, its an income tax and the money has been heading off shore for yet more greener pastures. And its more class warfare.... Hey, there aint that many rich people in the US to make a dent in this... Hey, didja like that 13 bucks a week? Didja like that 8 you are going to get NEXT YEAR?

Now we have to pay for this bullshit thats been going on. NOTHING more than taking your money and stealing it and giving it to someone else. It will DO NOTHING to turn the economy. As for those people, they didnt work for it, they are never going to hold a job, Why? Because its more cost effective NOT TO WORK !!!! Sell drugs, its very economical and you dont have to quit your day job of welfare recipient either.

Tax and spend, tax and spend.... big surprise. Even the AMT which is held for next year, wont be in 2011. Thats for people making over 50 g's jointly or individually.…

So forget those vacations, the Obamanation is going to make sure that you work so that someone else can get a free ride, you know a permanent vacation from having to deal with your problems. Hey, we got BIG GOVERNMENT. And they will continue to do so. The taxpayer revolt is underway and the FASTEST way to ensure that the US comes apart?

Have 1 million people turn and just tell the government one day....NO!

No, we are NOT going to pay your taxes and then use the courts to game the system. Notice that I said your taxes. These taxes are for nothing but support of people who are not genuinely poor. Oh, they'll say they are poor, but they arent. My definition of poor is mom of 3 living on 26,000 a year. My definition is not being able to go to work because you are injured , maimed or have arthritis to the nth degree.

We subsidize poverty in this country and this is yet another failed program. We ensure that there will alway be a huge voter base that does their thing in November of each year and every four. And then, one day ..... The paper is no longer worth anything.

Support the elderly and those that cannot WORK only. I dont care if they are just out picking up trash or building playgrounds. Able bodied people should NEVER be subsidized to go into this welfare state. PURE UNMITIGATED BULLSHIT!

As for nationalization

# Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
# A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
# Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
# Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

You may have heard of this from Republicans and Democrats recently. ....Its old news.

Thats from the Communist Manifesto......... 4 of 10 tenets. I would be on part 3. You know, the rebel part.

Have a nice day. Obama has to tax the middle class else this gamey goat rope is going to fall apart. Question is whether we will submit this time around.

No wonder the state sovereignty thing is carrying so much weight now.

By M. Randolph Kruger (not verified) on 21 Feb 2009 #permalink