Clean the stables

It's sad because it just doesn't have to be this way.
As far as looking to another individual to save our sorry asses, well, that's not a solution either. They ain't listening revere, they believe we're dumber than a doorknob, and they enjoy spending money that isn't theirs and doesn't exist in the first place.

Another is to re-regulate the energy industry. The net effect of deregulation was the likes of Enron and here in RI under National Grid my energy costs almost tripling.

Two AIGs: One thing in common - They sucker people out of their hard earn cash and laugh at us being duped into giving them our tax money so they can spend it on themselves. I have an article I posted yesterday you're more than welcome to look at and comment on what I wrote.

Two AIGs: One thing in common

I've been following this since the early days and have come to a conclusion that is never voiced: this whole thing came in three parts.

In the first part, the "shadow banking system" created garbage bonds and sold them to bondholders (suckers). This was supposed to play out that the suckers got taken and life would go on. But!

In the second part, the "shadow banking system" chose to become their own suckers. The owner of the Mirage casino does not go over to the Bellagio casino and play craps on borrowed money. But that is exactly what these guys did: they played in their own casino and burned themselves and each other (C.f. Goldman shorting AIG and buying insurance from AIG. I am not allowed to buy 10 fire insurance policies on your house.)

Unforch, the casino is the "engine room" of the economy and that's why we're dead in the water.

In the third part, the "engine room" does not want to get repaired for a few reasons: 1) the extent of the damage requires replacement rather than repairs, 2) the disclosure of this would quite likely sink the ship, and 3) (the third rail of international finance) fantastic amounts of drug and other criminal funds are involved. Disclosing this would either sink the ship or involve replacing the entire crew or both.

Another suggestion: reduce the deductibility of debt payments. This whole thing is about debt pyramids: remove the granite quarry and the pyramids will stop getting built.

Sorry Revere, you are not thinking this one through. Legitimate homeowners will bear the brunt of any "reduction of principal" by the courts and prevent lending by banks even more. Not a good idea. Better idea would be that they buy up the 150 billion in bad homeloans and just call it a day and auction the things off. We get anything back it would be better than the deal we are getting now with all the pork.

This is a dangerous precedent also that would be set. You dont like your loan, the one you were stupid enough to sign or too stoopid to even be in a home then you simply file a bankruptcy and a judge gives you new terms. Then they default on that.

Its delaying the inevitable. Toss them out on their ears? Not that hard, better that a judge would let them stay there for three months and order that no waste be caused. That would give the people a bit of time to get the payments together to get into an apartment. This is going to prolong the bad credit in the market and its going to go back to the old way of doing things when we need to go back 40 years to how things were done before. Its called responsibility and accountability.

Funny, a bank in Mass. was told that they had to make riskier loans and apparently are the only bank there without any bad loans. Yep, thats a Dem controlled FDIC now. The bank is in the black, solidly and wouldnt make loans to people that were bad credit risks.

This is the result of a bad Democrat program that was intended to allow minorities to buy homes from the Carter Administration. It was expanded and expanded and we got Freddie and Fannie and started offering loans to deadbeats without any credit history. Then the meltdown.

I wonder if the govt would have bailed out Lehman Bros. if they had the chance to do it all over again?

As for the bonuses Revere, its not like that at all. This is how many of them get paid. It was legal. This bailout crap is from the Democratically controlled House and Senate who didnt want to listen to the Republicans about possibly doing the unthinkable.... You know... Read the damned paperwork.

Franks was leading the charge as was Maxine and the real Republicans like Boehner were saying hold on, and they didnt vote for it. You wonder why we got into trouble? Hey Enron and WorldCom were the last ones. BIG Dem donations on both sides. Chrissy Dodd was in the middle of that one too. But Barney, is the big leader here. He has lied on more than one occasion and now the shoe is slipping onto their left feet. They are in full control and we are sinking faster and faster. The centrist Dems are now getting it... We could lose the country and in a hot fast minute. All it would take is a fire sale by the Chinese of our Treasuries and there would be an economic collapse of immense proportions all around the world. The EU would fight but be gone in under a month.

Now I hear Mr. Stupid and Company want to spend ANOTHER trillion dollars as heard on 60 mins. tonight. The commentator asked if Obama was punch drunk. Probably not, but he hasnt a clue what to do and throwing more good money ....OUR MONEY after bad is the only thing they can come up with. Typical Democrat.

This continues to be an attempt at inflating a balloon that just is full of holes. They need to let GM file Chapter 11, Chrysler too. This would remove them from the manufacturing game. It would also allow them to compete. I know you will disagree about the following but they also have to drop this green machine stuff. We are now in global cooling and they are trying to subsidize an industry for 250 million thats already got a subsidy. Its lip service to a problem. We need a real energy source and its just not there.

There wont be the first gigawatt of production under the Obamanation. None... we just get the bills because of some stupid mandate. Inflation is going to be off the scale and interest rates alone are going to do the economy in two years. No way to create wealth here, just bills.

We need a real tax cut to turn it around and forget about 2/3rds of what he has planned. He will go after military spending cuts next to pay for the BS. But the numbers just keep rising for unemployment and Wall Street who is smarter than he will ever be, just isnt buying it.

GZH is pretty close to it. What they did was legal, but not bright and people made zillions of dollars. But the musical chair fixes for this are now of Obama's doing and Bush kept him informed as did Paulson the whole way. They hit the ground running, but in the wrong direction. Just buy the goddamn bad paper loans and auction the homes off. Do it quick because in 10 years we will be seeing the top end of the boomers checking out for old age and thats going to flood the market with used houses too.

Need a lot of babies to be made to pay for this shit and well I am willing to do my part in that. Otherwise this isnt a mortgage of our futures, or our grandkids, or our great grandkids. Its a complete and total meltdown thats coming unless they quit spending money in the wrong directions. AIG is too big to fall? Let it fall and the money that we are talking about is NEVER needed. It just creates the bottom that needs to be made. Hurt other countries? Screw 'em. They made money for years off of this govt. sponsored Ponzi. Let them take some hits too.

GZH is also closer on the debt payment deductions. But by law in Tennessee and several So.States they have something in their Constitutions that specifically allows them to do so because we dont have an income tax here. All sorts of nuances but just buy the damned loans and then you dont load the courts up, we dont have to spend the next 20 years digging out, and above all it gives these people time to get out and into apartments. Shit let them live there rent free for six months if nothing else and then start the auctions. Six months is plenty enough for them to roll a first and last months rent, put the stuff into storage and then start again... Much smarter. Who am I bailing out anyway, the people or the banks and corporations?

Break up the banks? Hmmmm...... They arent worth anything right now.... You can pick up Citi for about a buck or two per share. I have a better idea... Run the money through the banks that we are processing. The float will produce about 600 bucks per night for every 100,000 that they have in there from 3:30 to 06:30. Thats a lot of potatoes in under a week. Then they could in turn use that to get their stuff in order.

Tax compensation unequally?

I am shocked Revere, shocked I tell you. You sound like Obamanation...Class warfare. Seems that only Communists talk about classes of people. In the US that Constitution thing steps in trumps everything and well, its not legal to make a tax just for one group of people. It wont stand the test and the suggestion to give it back rather than trying to tie up Congress and Barneys little brain is a much better thing. They might not get it but the idea that this is constitutional is patently going to get knocked down in court. Why bother? Push ahead and do what you can to limit these repackaged derivatives. Pressing the hedge funds right now with new regulations could send them AND the banking industry over the falls. Slow gradual increase in controls.

Indeed it was the Republicans who got Glass Steagall removed and Revere is right about that. Its not the whole story though. When it started to approach I think 29% of the total loans in the US and the numbers of defaults were increasing at 2% and then 15% a month starting in 07, the Republican regulators went to Congress to request re-regulation. They were called racists... Even Obamanation had a hand in this one. Maxine Waters, Barney Franks and several others are on tape saying that this is racist because the head of one of the institutions was black. Screw that. All I know is that he got HIS bonuses. Has anyone asked HIM to give it back. Nope, BTW Barneys live in homey was like number 3 at Freddie... Conflict of wick.

So, we all get to eat the dirty end of the stick. But its different this time around. Before we had "some" industry to fall back on in previous recessions. Now our service based corporation called government that ran all of that manufacturing industry off shore due to costs, healthcare, and regulations is gone. This one is going to get much more ugly and spending money as GZH relates isnt going to fix it. Not a chance. The fundamentals are all wrong and we will get a bit better and then....the taxes kick in two years. Right after the elections. So tighten your seat belts, this roller coaster ride is just getting started.

21% was the interest rate under Carter during his spendathon..... Anyone want to make bets what it will be or what the inflation rate will got to?

@Ground Zero Homeboy:

Unforch, the casino is the "engine room" of the economy and that's why we're dead in the water.

I'd suggest that this is dead wrong, and the wrongness of it is exactly what the problem is.

The engine rooim of the economy is - and always has been - productive labour. You know: people making things, building things, growing and mining things. Throw out GDP as the measure of - well, anything - and come up with some more meaningful metrics better related to the real economy (rmember that?).

An economy where people are not gainfully employed is an economy that is a *failure*.

MRK
Why do you and others assume that someone who is underwater or upside down on their morgage are going into foreclosure and bankruptcy. My mortgage is upside down. Im nowhere near financial ruin b/c I bought w/in my means -- however I will not ever be able to sell my house for what I paid for it. This is pretty much true of anyone that bought a house in the last 6 years.

No one said you were or would Kelly. There are plenty that ARE in this predicament. Truth is your value if you are like most Americans is in your home. So you have either taken a hit, or a big net worth hit which is worse. The others? They were in default many of them on the first payments. MANY of the homes around here were owned by illegal aliens and they never did the first credit check on them. Good program gone seriously south. Made sense back in the 70's to bring the equality level up. Okay in the 80's, started showing signs of trouble during Clinton (said to drop it) and finally we got 8 years of unmitigated bullshit. Republicans DID try to do something about it but the Dems blocked it... Now we have our little problem.

Selling it for what you paid for it? Yep, probably right. We have held solid here pretty much in W. Tennessee. 4300 sq. ft and 332,000. I took a 15K hit. My neighbor who moved into a new house and close to the same footage? 75,000.

Actually inflation that is coming is a good thing. It might buoy the prices up and I suggest you sell if it does come back up. When it tanks as the taxes settle in two years from now, you will be sitting on money and everyone else will be sitting on a bill.

MRK, both dems and republicans are in bed with the globalist international banksters who desire one world government, and a global central bank that will issue a global currency (first SDR then carbon dollar) backed up by a global tax (carbon tax). It's not a dem vs repub game, but they like you to think so. They split up certain issues that are of no consequences to them, like gay rights and abortion, but which people rally behind to divide and rule us. When it comes to the Banksters vs Joe the Plumber, they are on the same team, and it ain't Joes team.

In order to achieve their goal, they must lower Europes and Americas standard of living and increase the standard of living in the developing world to an equal level where we can be comfortably merged. Over the last 30 years, wealth has been transferred from the developed world to the developing world, by design, to this end. They told us they were going to do it in the 70's, even wrote books about it, people did not listen, and MSM played it down.

This has of course resulted in a lower standard of living for the average American (not the elite). Today, a middle class family has trouble raising 2 kids without both the husband and wife working, sometimes more than 1 job and assuming debt. In the 60's and early 70's, a middle class family could make it with 1 breadwinner, and raise 6 kids.

This current crisis was planned and manufactured over 20 years ago, and has been executed to perfection. Sir Bubbles was the engineer, staring with a test drive of the derivatives in the staged 1987 stock market dive. Basel I accords established by the defacto Global central bank (BIS w/o money creation ability) in 1988 that encouraged banks to move securities off the books and invest in derivatives. Then Basel II came along in 2007 to increase banks capital requirements starting from 2008 and force the derivatives and securities back onto the books and marked to market, even if there was no market, and pop goes that bubble. In between, you had what was described in the linked article.

Today, it is what it is. The international banksters are being bailed out for their losses, and to pay off the winners in the tax havens, who happen to be the same banks. Since we do not have any money, we must borrow from the same banks.

Next week, the G-20 will meet to discuss giving the IMF the right to issue it's own money (SDR's) to bail out developing countries and combat the mythical Anthropogenic cause of Global Warming in the war on the CO2 terrorist. The war on CO2 began in 1988 by the way, same year as the Basel I accords.

This will mark the beginning of the end for the USD as the global reserve currency. After that, we must go to the IMF for loans, and there will be strings attached to these loans, and if we resist, we become another Zimbabwe. The IMF is owned by the international banksters, the fleas are jumping ship.

The US has served it purpose and is longer needed, except for resources and agriculture. Our military will one day sold off the the UN to settle our debts and will one day fly the UN flag, and it's mission will be to secure the New World Order. Obama just might be the World Governments first President in 2013.

I dont disagree with much of what you said. The only alternative then would be secession and/or civil war, followed as I have said by a world war. They are out gunned and the military will not sit idly by and watch this happen.

Watch what happens to the economy if this New World Order crap comes to be. The US is not allowed to sign any treaty without ratification by the Senate and Obama is acting like he already has this in the bag. We need to slow down and above all slow this guy down before he takes the economy into the toilet.

Communist...pure and simple.

Simple. Indeed.

We live on a finite planet with finite resources. We had an economic system built on growth. Growth cannot go on forever on a finite planet. Resources - fossil fuels, soil, water, climate are being depleted and there is no new lands to exploit. So necessarily it is going to collapse
Read the 40 year update on Limits to Growth
Read Collapse of Complex Societies by Joseph Tainter
All the ins and outs of the economy are just details on a grand plan designed to fail - if growth is required for an economic plan to succeed and you cannot move off a finite planet then your plan will eventually fail. Looks like the time is about now.

Those of us following the Peak Oil issues are not surprised in the least.

I dont know if Peak Oil is true, but peak supply is definitely.

Revere keeps backing the wrong horses and this one is going to be responsible for a huge downfall in the US. Dazzled by the bright and shiny new penny. Tarnished and getting more so. Simple.... yeah Revere it is. You simply dont spend more than you take in. If the ChiComs redeem their bonds/treasuries we are screwed. Plain and simple.

Even the Brits are being told to stop the spend... Its just creating an artificial bottom.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1164440/The-Bank-England-No-10-…

Zogby 50/50
Rasmussen 56/43 an outlier when it doesnt work for Revere.
CBS 64
Gallup 65
RCP 61

Which I make to be a 5 or so point drop, or if you went with the originally inflated numbers for the anointed one, its almost 11% in a month. Of course they never poll down south either. Unemployment is now at 8.0% locally.

Socialism works until you spend all of someone elses money.

Communism states that one of the first things you must do is to take control of the banks. Then all money is controlled by the Politburo and the Central Committee.

We are now only 1.7 years from the mid term elections.... Watch what happens if the economy doesnt turn around. The Congressional rating is only 31% on average. The Republicans on average are ten to fifteen points higher than the Dems, but there are more Dems.

Yeah Revere, control of all capital and all markets at the whim of one questionable person-Obama. It would have been a stimulus if they had taken 720 billion and mailed it to every man woman and child in America. Pot load of rocks.... But, instead we are bailing out companies with government running them and now, now we are talking about a complete takeover. Taking over financially troubled institutions is going to lead to taking over of 401K's and in Roth's. But, you'll keep supporting your boy to the end. Money that is worthless is just that Revere and even the ChiComs and the EU are warning him. Stop the spending. So if Wall Street doesnt buy it, the CAC, Nikkei, and all of the markets dont buy it and especially if I dont buy it, why should we believe it? He has spent more money in the last 70 something days than the previous four adminstrations by tenure. Going to be hard to blame Bush when you tank the economy almost five months after he has left office. He was sworn in and it fell 2000 points more. Then he opened his mouth and it fell another 500.

Seems socialism/communism just isnt acceptable to the world.

Simple....Indeed.

MRK, Revere as long as folks have their head stuck in partisan politics they won't understand what is going on in the world today. Blame Obama, blame Bush, leaves us rapacious humans off the hook and leaves in place the disastrous belief that we can go on over exploiting the world if we just get the right politicians and technological fixes.

The party is over - growth is unsustainable on a finite planet. Time to plan for a very different world. Invest in hoes and shovels not stocks or even gold. Learn a useful skill. Become good friends with your neighbors. Prepare to open your houses to other people to cut your own expenses and prevent homelessness. Learn to identify wild edible plants.

Randy: Didn't your guy spend more than he took in? You didn't complain. He was your guy. Now it's someone else and all you can do is call names (communist, socialist, etc.). Since you have shown you don't know the meanings of those names and in fact your knowledge of political economy and political science is at the level of a 3rd grader from the 1950s. Since I am being critical of Obama/Geithner/Summers and company I am not defending their actions now. The banks are insolvent and should be nationalized, broken up and turned back to the private sector when they are stable.

K.: I fundamentally agree, although I don't think we are headed for agrarianism again, just a rationally downsized world that can potentially be just as or more satisfying than the one we have if we do it right.

Randy: If you don't think Zogby is an outlier after seeing this, then you don't know what "outlier" means.

First Revere, everyone is an outlier when it doesnt take care of your new penny. Two weeks ago it was Rasmussen. They gave him higher marks than Zogby..So now who is the outlier? Who is going to be the next one for you to submit that they cant possibly be right.

Revere, since I have been to more than one course on the matter and probably well after you were in school in the 1950's I would say you are wired into this Kennedy'ite/Carter save the world program. The Congress has been controlled by spendaholic Dems and some Republicans for the last three years pushing. Now we have an even bigger spender in the White House being puppeted by Rahm Immanuel. We are a nation of capitalists and not of socialists. Our system will come apart if we keep acting as such. You flip out because Republicans spend money for national defense... thats in the Constitution. Your UHC and other things are not. In fact if the Congress would stick to whats in that document we would return to being a world power in under a couple of years.

Dont tax for social welfare, dont tax for anything not specified and leave the rest of it to the states. The guy responsible for this spend until you win is FDR and no one other and its very,very commendable. It works right up until the time there is no money for it. Its spending someone elses money on someone who has done nothing except stick their hand out. Socialist mentality. Even your UHC supposedly would improve the public health... it might. But then we put the money into the dirt with the body that received all of those benefits at someone elses expense. Jesus H. Christ... the concept.
There are people here in the South that have NEVER paid any income taxes of any kind Revere. Up there you have an income tax...We dont. They dont pay their property taxes and then get pissed because the state takes their homes. Guess who picks up the slack.

There is no way to continue business as usual and the system is going to collapse all around us. The states who are already sick to death of federal mandates are going to rebel. Secession is being kicked about hard and heavy and that includes your state. Why? Because socialist programs, WELFARE programs that someone thinks are the answers to our problems have to be funded ahead of all other things and above all by someone who actually works for a living.

Pal, I'll tell you....You need to get out of the office and out onto the streets. That doesnt mean some hospital wing where you complain about insurance companies, or pontification about the spending for defense. I mean out beyond the Northeast.

Think I dont get it? Police forces, redrawing of district lines, ACORN and I blame Bush for not getting it back to the center himself. Too far right, followed by too far left. And both sides spent money beyond the means of the American people. Hussein (Stupid and Company) Obama's answer is to open the new credit card application in the mail and spend the limit on that one too.

Your grasp is that of the left and that is socialism. You call it libertarian... I dont know of a single libertarian that holds the views you do. The spendathon is going to end one way or another and spending for "infrastructure" and green and all of that other bullshit isnt going to do one damned thing for the economy. It is going to spend a lot of money though...

But its the old class warfear/warfare thing. Its bad when people make money legally. Then you get strong armed by a Treasury Secretary that was part of the causes? Tax the compensation from which they get their money? Who is next. Hey you sonavabitches, you work on Wall Street? Well we have a new tax for you too. You there, you make more than 50,000 -Well you are rich.... We have a tax for you too.

Taxed to death and actually it might be better to actively start talking about secession. No one wants to do it, but the federal process no longer works so its a possible referendum coming up in 20 states. No longer will they take the crap off of DC. Better to start a conglomerate of new states that have a cast in stone constitution that isnt opened for interpretation.

I live in the real world every day Revere and not that of an academic... Meet a payroll or two old friend, or tell someone that you have to lay them off because of economic conditions. Think thats easy? Turn around and tell them that even though they dont have a home, a car, or food that some jerk in the White House is going to make someone else who is strapped already pay for your healthcare. Shit, they'll check in just to eat.

This approach that Hussein (Stupid and Company) has a a mindless management by committee approach and its not working. They are trying to distance themselves from their actions already. Geithner might be indicted if they find out he orchestrated this payoff to his old buddies.

Revere even presented with video facts about all of this and how it could have been stopped evades you. So a 3rd grader from the 1950's probably had more smarts. There was accountability then, no fast and loose and the blame game starts. Frankly your attitude if its a Republican anything is that of an automaton. Hussein Obama is now down four or five and maybe six of broken campaign promises and you admitted you voted for him. You were just wet because of the change we can believe in. You wanted him to spend even MORE money and old son you are getting that wish. The fact is that he will spend money, more money than any president in the history of the US. If it collapses again, there will be no return this time around. Tax and spend got us into trouble, this is only going to get us into it much deeper because it produces nothing but more bills that we already cant pay.

I remind you that this is the same leftist/socialist/communist bunch that gave Al Gore the Nobel for GW when it was snowing and temps were dropping around the world. Been snowing more and more and Canada is still -10 in about a third of the country. But those are facts and if they can be skewed then by all means lets call Obama to get that cap and trade in there that will cost the US 2 trillion more than he said it would. That came out of the mouth of the centrist Democrats, not Republicans. The Republicans already knew it.

This is and has been a group masturbation session and even the dumbasses are starting to get it.

Nationalization of banks Revere? Are you talking about plank four of the Communist Manifesto? Are you talking about giving government the power to regulate "troubled" institutions. Guess who gets to make the determination of troubled? How about political opponents? Is he going to get a new police force to determine who is troubled? Sending agents into one of these places is enough to send them over, start a run on redemptions, and you think this is a good idea? Government control of everything is communism Revere. I would think you would get that.

Your polling data is interesting. A mix of daily's and long range and I think even you would note that your trend is down, and going further if you run the lines down to the end of the graph I dont see it ending anywhere but at the bottom. I dont see anything up other than the daily polls and thats a daily poll about what? He is a dapper dresser? His wife just hosted a 50,000 Conga train party in the White House? Well she did and at the taxpayers expense.

Gallup/Zogby/Rasmussen? Hmm... now lets see two weeks ago you said Rasmussen was an outlier... this week Zogby. Who is it going to be next week? Anyone who tarnishes the shiny penny?

I wouldnt even say that they were biased but the number of disapprovals is coming up and the approvals coming down.

Feel free planet and punch up Husseins numbers below. You can hit the graphs but notice that there are no upticks in his approvals, only downward and that includes Reveres graph he popped up.

I will prove my point. Use the people who made up his graph.... It was highly selective of course. Drop down below the graphs and hit one of those non-outliers punch one of them. They are all showing pretty much the same thing. Down. Obama is sliding like crap through a goose. He knows it too and the people are shell shocked and arent thinking. But they ARE starting to get the picture that this spendaholic coupled with a spendaholic Congress is going to bankrupt us. The real Democrats also can see it now like Bill Nelson from Florida. Notably on the left side of the President in the last Congressional meeting. Wonder why?

So lets get our third grader in here because he can add 1 + 1=2. You spend 4 and subtract 2 you get economic disaster. Yep, they got it in the 1950's. They also dove under chairs too because they understood that someone also might try to kill you someday with a missile or bomb. But not Hussein(Stupid and Company) Obama. We dont have terrorists any more either.

Wonder when the next building will go down? Ask any 1950's 3rd grader...they'll have a better idea than this guy.

http://pollster.com/

Sorry, Randy. You say things that betray a total ignorance of the subject and you sound more and more like a dotty crank.

Well, here is another of those dotty cranks Revere... And remember, there is a slight majority in the Senate and House...The rest of them are all dotty cranks like me along with seriously bigtime Dems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs

I for one am not going to give them one more dime without accountability. Its more than liberal, its well past that. Its socialism/Marxism/Communism and I would say its leaning farther and farther left every day. It constitutes a takeover by the government.

If I am a crank then by a 7-1 margin the guns and religion types down here are too. When everyones taxes balloon up to 70% dont be surprised. I have no idea what he is, but he surely isnt on our side... Check that birth certificate ....AGAIN.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

The claim that unlimited growth is possible on a finite planet is an extraordinary claim.

Tell me now, how do you map an infinity onto the surface of a Euclidean solid?

Let's see the proof.

---

MRK, speaking of commies, aren't you forgetting that we the taxpayers became the proud owners of a bunch of banks while Bush was still in office...?

---

Four trillion dollars. Here's what that would buy:

Nuclear power and most renewables cost about $1 million / megawatt to build.

Four trillion dollars = four *terawatts* of climate-clean power. The first trillion is enough to replace every single coal fired powerplant in the USA with a nuke or a windfarm or whatever you like. Take the other three trillion and do likewise for China and India and Europe.

And with that, we would have put the brakes on the climate crisis, sunk the Saudis under their sand dunes, and created enough new middle-class jobs in the private sector to solve unemployment and turn the economy around.

But no. We used the four trillion to pay off a bunch of clinical sociopaths' bad gambling habits.

And with that, we may very well have sealed the fate of our species and most other complex life on Earth.

g336: I know you weren't making a mathematical statement, but just fyi mapping the infinite plane onto a sphere is a standard thing in complex variables where it is called the Riemann Sphere. The north pole is the "point at infinity."

Oh, here are some more of those dotty cranks...

Wouldnt want the paintbrush not to be broad enough to catch the village idiots who voted for this knucklehead.

http://finance.yahoo.com/techticker/article/218493/The-Empire-Strikes-B…

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stocks-slide-after-weak-apf-14744876.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/dodds_wife_a_former_d…

OUR bond sale went badly today. Thats the borrowed money that allows Husein (Mr. Stupid and Company) Obama to go out and spend some more. I guess that the world didnt get your memo about being dotty, uninformed and uneducated Revere. I guess that would include all of the Phd. econonomists who say along with the head of the EU Parliament that Obama is out of his tree.

But in the interest of fairness, I'll direct them here for your highly educated, very important press conference on UHC, how they will spend the 684 billion on healthcare that will cause the need for...more money. Lets not forget that they have stolen from every "trust"(now thats a laugh) that was ever created.

Let us both assure the public that there is no need to worry about a immediate 7 trillion dollar deficit, added to a 55 trillion dollar deficit for Medicare and Social Security, added to a 130 trillion unfunded mandate bill thats already in existence.

Nope, the Chinese Central Bank is calling the notes and now the one world government thing comes into play about a new currency that we can all equally get screwed over. Instead of a single currency going into the toilet, we will get them all into a box and have a worldwide global depression backed by worthless one world government paper.

Ah, the seeds of anarchy and chaos are in the ground and starting to germinate.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning....

Where we are headed: Peak oil and the financial crisis
by Gail Tverberg

Nearly all of the economic analyses we see today have as their basic premise a view that the current financial crisis is a temporary aberration. We will have a V or U shaped recovery, especially if enough stimulus is applied, and the economy will soon be back to Business as Usual.

I believe this assumption is basically incorrect. The current financial crisis is a direct result of peak oil. There may be oscillations in the economic situation, but generally, we can't expect things to get much better. In fact, there is a very distinct possibility that things may get very much worse in the next few years.

Balance of Article at http://www.energybulletin.net/node/48442

For your considerations:

Obama Administration Careening Towards Disaster (And Taking the Country With It) - By Dave Lindorff - March 24, 2009

Six months after the failed Bush administration effort to "rescue" the US financial system, and after two months of failed efforts by his own new administration, at an expense to the American public of several trillion dollars and counting, the Obama administration is announcing plans to blow another $1 trillion in a massive taxpayer giveaway to investors who will be subsidized in an effort to get them to buy the so-called toxic assets on the books of the nation's biggest banks.

The problem with this plan is that its goal--getting these zombie banks to start lending again--is not going to work.

................. Click on link to read the rest .......

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_17361.cfm

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Randy: Like most cranks, you don't get what makes you a crank. It isn't that you have opinions that other people have, it's the way you express your opinions, hysterically embedded and encrusted with incoherent, wild accusations of paranoid nature alleging all sorts of conspiracies and name calling. The length of your posts alone and their (non) organization, flight of thought and paranoid character are what identifies you as a crank and there are thousands or tens of thousands like you on the internet. You've made your opinions clear (or as clear as you can make them) and done it often in an offensive way that borders on racist. You have become a nutcase. I've given you an inordinate amount of space here to spew your nonsense but it has gotten out of hand. Start your own blog. There are plenty like you out there and you can wring your hands and wail together from under your beds.

Well Revere when you start off nearly every one of your posts with a shot at the Republicans, Bush and everyone back to Reagan... What could you possibly expect from a conservative? Acquiescence ?

Racist???? In what way would that be? Barry, Bozo, Hussein, Hitler, Obama, Obombme? I didnt name the guy. I could care less what his race is, but I damned sure care about what he is doing to this country. But, there is that leftist chip on the shoulder... You were really quick to use acronym names against Bush. Forgot that didnt you.

Now we have the "Rebalance" committee made up of people that are going change the tax code.. Wait til I dump the names on those guys.

Cranks have nothing of importance to say. You do and I do too. Around the world the people are raising hell about Obama and if this is supposed to rebuild the trust in American government I would say its a pretty damned bad way to do it. There are also ominous signs of collaboration between many socialist and/or communist countries to take us out. Adding debt is a sure fired way to ensure that it does come apart. You have seen the vids and all sorts of electeds are pissed off at Obama... Not Bush... Obama. There is going to be just so long that he is going to be able to use the blame game. Maybe a month more and then the knives are going to come out for Barack Hussein Obama-Caesar. His own party is going to start to go after him and the rumblings are there now. The same applies all over this world and these stimulus/bailouts. Its grand theft... But its legal..I think.

Hill and Bill must be laughing their butts off.

Have a nice day Revere.... I'll be gone for a few days to watch basketball while the poor people have to do it on cable/satellite. Probably paid for by me anyway.

Discussing Republican vs Democrat, Right vs Left, Conservative vs Liberal is so much safer than looking at the looming collapse of the USA (soon to be perhaps the FUSA) and very likely human civilization. Having been a Hospice volunteer I am well acquainted with the various methods of avoiding unpleasant truths. But I will try once again to knock the partisans out of their games of denial into seeing the elephant in the room.

From one of the people who predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union (now the Former Soviet Union)
Dmitry Orlov http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2009/02/social-collapse-best-practices.ht…
(he lived in the FSU until he was a teen, and has lived in the USA ever since - an amazing man who can find humor in most anything and has some very wise suggestions as to best ways to cope)
"If there is one thing that I would like to claim as my own, it is the comparative theory of superpower collapse. For now, it remains just a theory, although it is currently being quite thoroughly tested. The theory states that the United States and the Soviet Union will have collapsed for the same reasons, namely: a severe and chronic shortfall in the production of crude oil (that magic addictive elixir of industrial economies), a severe and worsening foreign trade deficit, a runaway military budget, and ballooning foreign debt. I call this particular list of ingredients "The Superpower Collapse Soup." Other factors, such as the inability to provide an acceptable quality of life for its citizens, or a systemically corrupt political system incapable of reform, are certainly not helpful, but they do not automatically lead to collapse, because they do not put the country on a collision course with reality. Please don't be too concerned, though, because, as I mentioned, this is just a theory. My theory."

Or from the other man who predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union, Gerald Celente
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8wA8TovXAw

Collapse of the U.S.A. as a superpower ? Oh yes K.
I believe I read it's actually a cycle lasting what? 150 years for each "superpower". Whatever it is-is irrelevant, it's just a cycle and this shit happens, over and over and over again.
Will mankind ever break the cycle of history repeats itself?

I've given you an inordinate amount of space here to spew your nonsense but it has gotten out of hand.

Indeed. It was kind of funny early on, but as Kruger gets angrier and angrier his arguments get stupider and stupider and his comments get longer and longer. There's not even any point in reading 'em anymore; I can get exactly the same dipshit misinformation at WorldNetDaily in a fraction of the time, without ruining my eyesight.

Unfortunately, MRK probably won't start his own blog instead of parasitizing this one, since even likeminded cranks are likely to be put off by his endless scattershot rants. He may not get much respect here, but at least he can pretend he's having a conversation.

Seriously, MRK, if you don't find some way to calm down, stress is gonna get you long before the one-worlders do. If you won't give it a rest for our sake, do it for yourself and your loved ones.

I like the dialogues like this; authentic and thoughtful mood.

Perhaps Randy needs us to show him the unconditional acceptance, after all; "To save a person is to save the world."

Sometimes, I wondered that if Randy had wounds in his home schooling or bad peers around. Anyway, people beyond the age of forty has to decide for himself, can not blame that we are the mistake of our parents.:-)

I wish that Randy can apply his Christian style here, that life can be transformed in any moment, just like the first miracle of changing water into the best wine. The longer it lasts, the better it tastes.

You know folks it constantly amazes me here that there is such a collection of people who try to insinuate that the US is the bad guy, that all laws or lack of them created the situation under Republican Presidents, and that when a President diss'd veterans it had to go back to another President. Obfurscations one and all. You are also very much unaware of the rest of America outside of your own little left wing but highly populated states. Not one word did I hear from any of you about the insinuation that our troops were murdering women and children in Iraq. Indeed, all I heard was that we shouldnt be there. Now we are going to Afghanistan with more troops. Obama has now spent more than all of the previous administrations combined... But he has the cover of Congress that really spends the money.

Phila-I really dont give one big shit what you think in your little left wing hovel in Oregon. You and Revere are only separated by distance I think, not philosophy. That philosophy will result in the demise of the US either by legal or violent means. There is no acknowledgment at all that no one wants what is happening and the mortgage of our futures by this Congress and President will destroy this country. K has it covered nicely but its based upon peak oil. I think its zero valuation of our currency or near it. What do you do when they dont take the dollar bills? The fastest way to ensure that is to continue to spend. Nor are these policies even remotely sustainable. But you simply dont get it that there are other people in this country who support the rest of it on welfare. If you take welfare of any kind then you are automatically recused. Cant comment. But all of this ends in about a year when the dollar is worthless. Now if its anger to say that what they are doing isnt going to work then thats fine-disagree. This ongoing 45 year spendathon is going to end finally by its own destruction. Its did under Carter after the system collapsed, but this is him by 1000 fold. Yes, 1000.

What do you call it when your credit card is completely to the limit and you want to spend more? This renders your mindless rant about me moot Phila. You are a snark anyway.

Paiwan-With all due respect, you go save the world with your money and not mine for a change. If your country cant afford it then by all means apply for foreign aid from the IMF. You know, the same guys that get their money from the US. How about the UK too. They are in Great SHAPE! Everyone chip in and take money from the taxpayers to bring those people down and the other people up. Spread the misery and not the wealth is what that is. But that just cant possibly be on this left wing circle jerk.

If the US dollar falls to nearly zero from inflation and inability to prop the currency up then your economy will fall to zero too. The great play has started and it ends in disaster for everyone under this globalization kegger we have all been to. But none of you would ever understand this. You are liberals and leftists one and all and cant understand that spending has never worked... it only creates the need for more spending.

I can only hope that it doesnt end in civil war and a breakup. But that would be a leftist/liberal heaven. God has nothing to do with this Paiwan and your lack of respect for him is showing. You deal with him on your terms, dont dictate your interpretations of him to me.

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/arachel/2009/03/27/i-wanna-spend-yo-m…

MRK: Please give it a break.

Pretty off topic, but there is another way to map an infinite plane to a finite circle familiar to RF Engineers - it is called a Smith Chart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Chart

G336-From a cellphone so very short. GOOD IDEA, build nukes! I like it...But try to get that one approved by the green machine. Better that than thousands of acres of the desert SW used for windfarms and solar.

Yep, should have paid the 150 billion for the toxic debts two months ago. Now we are on four trillion and spend, spend, spend...more.

But I just get stupider and stupider..... I cant possibly be right that Obama is a Communist/Marxist. I'll leave it to the WSJ to cover stupid. Collapse the economy, then what...? I dont think it will be socialism and of course he will be able to blame whom? Global currency will take us out as a nation and put us SQUARELY under UN control.

But I am glad that a paper with a circulation of 2.7 million gets it... Apparently its 2.7 plus one !

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123879833094588163.html

I didn't know that April 1st has lasted a week; yah, another news is that local army in the South has been formed...

Randy: Yes, you do get stupider and stupider. I doubt you've ever read a word of Marxist economics and you sure don't know what a Communist is. You are just a juvenile name caller. Your link doesn't mention Marxism or Communism. You don't know what they are and looking up a link and posting it in a comment doesn't mean a thing. You give me an editorial from the WSJ as if it is fact and not opinion, and one that isn't even on your point. Please stop hijacking threads with name calling and hysteria. It is inconsiderate. If you have an organized point you'd like to make, complete with an argument and not just your usual drivel, go ahead. But you have lapsed into blind ignorance and fear, over and over again. Not even Rupert Murdoch says things as dumb as you do. You are the one talking about armed revolt against the government. That's not just class warfare. that's treason.

Rupert got his money the old fashioned way... he earned it Revere. You dont recognize takeover and If YOU had read the Manifesto Cowboy you would see that control of the banks was one of the prime items to seize control. Things are about to get surly and when Obama starts to try to put the US under UN control you will get it hard, fast and to the point.

In fact Revere you just dont get it. But you will eventually and you will likely be one of the first to raise your hand in salute.