First, check out The Daily Show's take on the Holocaust denial conference, with goodies like Revision Quest and Just Say No. It's the show that characterizes the "question" being discussed at the conference as: Was the entire Holocaust an elaborate episode of Punk'd? Best line: David Duke, he's like the Flock of Seagulls of hate. Or maybe the one about the neo-Nazis who are publishing a book about the Holocaust entitled If We Did It...
But, believe it or not, I've found a take on the Holocaust denial convention, parts of which may be even funnier than The Daily Show, and it comes from a Holocaust denier himself. You see, I had been wondering where arch anti-Semite and Holocaust denier Michael A. Hoffman II was during all this. I would have expected that he would have been on the short list of deniers to be invited, but, as far as I could tell, he wasn't in Tehran last week. Certainly he would have gotten along very well with the ultra-orthodox Jews known as the Neturei Karta, who, although not Holocaust deniers themselves, share Hoffman's hatred of the State of Israel and belief that "Zionists" (the word Holocaust deniers use when they want to claim they aren't anti-Semites) exploit the Holocaust to justify repression of the Palestinians. On the other hand, maybe they wouldn't given the way that Hoffman labeled these orthodox rabbis who opposed the Gay Pride Parade in Jerusalem as having a reputation of "molesting boys (and each other in ritual baths)" (although it appears to be a different bunch of orthodox rabbis Hoffman was labeling hypocrites and child molesters).
Apparently Hoffman has a sense of humor, too. Well, no he doesn't, but he has written something of which parts are so unintentionally hilarious that I couldn't resist quoting him. What's so hilarious? Easy, Hoffman praises the Holocaust denial conference in Tehran as upholding the principles of the Enlightenment (also found on the white power ranger website National Vanguard). Most of his article is the standard Holocaust denier jargon about "no gas chambers," rants against Jewish conspiracies, but it's bookended by two real howlers:
Iran's "Holocaust" conference opens today and in spite of some imperfections, it marks an historic event, the first time any government in the world has sought to examine the Allied claims about mass execution gas chambers allegedly used by the Germans at Auschwitz.
I'll agree that it represents an "historic event"--an historic event in the annals of stupidity, hate, and conspiracy-mongering. From this point on, it will probably serve as the gold standard in anti-Semitic conspiracy-mongering wingnuttery against which all other wingnuttery will have to be measured--until someone tops it. But the real hilarity is the conclusion of Hoffman's article:
For some of us, the word of "The Holy People" about "The Holocaust" is not enough. It has been a truism since at least the Enlightenment that without the right to question a holy dogma, even one alleged to have been proclaimed by heaven or Christ's "vicar on earth," or Calvin in the "holy citadel of Geneva," knowledge and human advancement are not possible.
When James Macpherson, a Scottish Nationalist, purported in the 18th century to have discovered epics and sagas in Gaelic, these were rapturously received by the British public. However, "mean-spirited" intellectuals such as Samuel Johnson challenged Macpherson to provide the original documents upon which he based his claims. Johnson told Macpherson, "I thought your book an imposture from the beginning and what I have heard of your morals disposes me to pay regard not to what you shall say, but to what you can prove." Macpherson blustered but never produced the evidence.
We have the right to declare to the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the Yad Vashem museum, the US State Department and Congress, Tony Blair, Koffi Annan, the governments of Germany and Israel and Zionists everywhere, your morals dispose us to pay regard not to what you shall say, but to what you can prove. According to revisionist "heretics," about the execution gas chambers, the Judaics and their allies have thus far proved nothing.
It's remarkable that it is the Iranians with their revisionist conference in Tehran who are the contemporary guarantors of Enlightenment principles, while the post-modern West lies submerged in the darkness, superstition and self-protective inertia of the religious fundamentalism that is Holocaustianity.
Of course, it's all a crock of B.S. that there is no evidence for mass executions of Jews and others that the Nazis considered "undesirable" using gas chambers, and all of the canards Hoffman uses have been thoroughly debunked at sites like The Holocaust History Project and Nizkor and at blogs like this one, Flavor Country, Holocaust Controversies, and Holocaust Denial Absurdities. Hoffman's lies and the lies and abuse of the scientific method and history scholarship by the Holocaust deniers at the Tehran conference makes Hoffman's claiming the mantle of the Enlightenment for this endeavor so utterly ridiculous that I think you'll have to excuse me while I go and vomit.
ADDENDUM: While we're at it for vomit-inducing quotes, get a load of this one:
A BRITISH rabbi who angered fellow Jews by speaking at a "Holocaust denial" conference in Iran now says millions did die in gas chambers but may have deserved it.
Ahron Cohen, an Orthodox Jew from Greater Manchester and a leading member of the anti-Zionist Neturei Karta movement, sparked new controversy on his return from Tehran by suggesting that God would have saved the victims of the Nazis if they had deserved to live.Cohen, whose house in Salford was pelted with 1,000 eggs last year because of his extremist views, told The Sunday Times: "There is no question that there was a Holocaust and gas chambers. There are too many eyewitnesses.
"However, our approach is that when one suffers, the one who perpetrates the suffering is obviously guilty but he will never succeed if the victim did not deserve it in one way or another.
"We have to look within to improve and try to better ourselves and remove those characteristics or actions that may have been the cause of the success of the Holocaust."
Yep, according to Rabbi Cohen, God didn't protect the victims of the Holocaust from the Nazis because they deserved their deaths and suffering.
No wonder Holocaust deniers like these Neturei Karta Jews enough to invite them to the Tehran conference.
Cohen's 'they deserved it' is not a simple "blame the victim" issue: there's a tradition in Judaism -- something of a minority, but strong in Eastern European orthodox movements -- of reincarnation, the idea that some of what we suffer or enjoy in this life is part of a process of divine justice for previous incarnations, preparing us for ascent to heaven.
There's also the tradition of the nation suffering for its sins collectively (see any of the prophets), and there are Jews who consider the Holocaust a modern-day spiritual cleansing for the Nation of Israel.
Most of us consider those views to be theological atrocities, but the problem of divine omniscience, omnipotence, and justice get pretty hairy, particularly when you have to deal with things like the Holocaust.
Cohen's "They deserved it" may be not be simple, as Ahistoricality suggests, but it is certainly simple-minded as is just about everything associated with Neturei Karta and all other religious fanatics.
I, for one, thought the Daily Show's take was unbelievably funny in unimaginably funny ways.
Game over, Doc. You have the power, but the truth and time are on the side of the good guys.
http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/?p=1343#more-1343
What kind of a satirist makes fun of a man who is fined, and imprisoned, and beaten up ten times for nothing but telling the truth?
Hmm...
I'm going to guess: a courtier satirist (jew Jon "Stewart") covering up for his fellow jews.
If you want to know the truth about the Big Lie called 'Holocaust,' just read Faurisson's paper at the link above.
Oh, goody. A white power ranger appears. Here's a hint: Citing Robert Faurisson is not a good way to add credibility to your argument.
Here's another hint: Nowhere did Stewart "make fun" of David Irving or, say, Ernst Zundel, although both richly deserve mockery and their being in prison does not inoculate them from criticism for their Holocaust denial. In any case, Irving knew that he had a warrant out for his arrest but went to Austria anyway. It's almost as though he wanted to be arrested. Maybe he did. Zundel broke immigration laws in the U.S. The only thing that amazed me was how long he got away with it.
And here's a third clue: This is my take on laws criminalizing Holocaust denial. I oppose them. Sorry to disappoint you
Here's a fourth clue: Misguided laws do not make Holocaust deniers' arguments any less bullshit than they are.
Disgusting. The Holocaust happened. There are eyewitnesses alive who saw it. My grandfather was there. Not as a victim; he was a 19 year old boy in the US Army liberating one of the camps. Imagine seeing that at 19, after surviving D-Day and the Bulge and thinking that you'd already seen the worst the world had to offer. Then imagine hearing armchair "historians" decades later casually handwaving away all the horror and insinuating that you must either be part of the conspiracy or be too stupid to see through it.
I know how he deals with it. He ignores the Holocaust deniers, just as he ignores anyone else too wrapped up in themselves to be worth debating.
Too bad you never cite the evidence (or lack thereof) when criticizing the claims of revisionists, excuse me, 'holocaust deniers'. One deserves to know which statements constitute 'bullshit', or if your term is meant simply as catch all refutation of claims that you didn't even investigate. Have you seen the gas chambers personally? Have you ever considered exactly how many gas chambers would be necessary to terminate 6,000,000 lives? The only chamber pointed to by the establishment as an execution chamber is the one admitted to be a postwar fabrication by the museum at Auschwitz. Perhaps someone else is in denial.
Hey, do any of you assholes know about the Vergasungskeller document or the Max Tauebner verdict? If so, then how do you explain these things if there were no gas chambers and no plan to kill the Jews?
a.m.
A straw man, and a rather obvious one at that.
Historians do not claim that 6,000,000 died in gas chambers. They were killed by a variety of methods, including shooting, starvation, disease, intentional overwork, hanging, as well as gas chambers. Homicidal gas chambers were but one of many methods by which the Nazis killed between 5,000,000 and 6,000,000 Jews.
I could ask you: Have you ever seen the gas chambers personally yourself? If not, then why are you asking me the question? You have no more "personal experience" of them than I do, and I can bet I've done a hell of a lot more research about them than you have.
As for evidence, you can start here:
Auschwitz: The Death Camp
Rebuttal of Faurisson on the Anne Frank Diary
Leuchter, Rudolf, and the Iron Blues
The Chemistry of Auschwitz
Zyklon Introduction Columns
The Reconstruction of Treblinka
If they did it the simple way, they didn't do it!
The Trial at Nuremberg
There's lots more where that came from, and I can suggest several books as well.
"The only chamber pointed to by the establishment as an execution chamber is the one admitted to be a postwar fabrication by the museum at Auschwitz."
The usual lie from an ignorant racist freak, on par with other such claims like that historians admitted that Dachau gas chamber was faked, etc.
"Have you ever considered exactly how many gas chambers would be necessary to terminate 6,000,000 lives?"
To make such a comment one must be completely ignorant about the claims of historians about the Holocaust. To make such a comment being wilfully ignorant of such claims is to show that one is denying the Holocaust just for the sake of denying, having never researched the issue in the first place.
IOW, to make such a comment is equivalent to saying: "I am a brainless moron who does no research whatsoever before spouting inane nonsense I have been fed by my puppeteers".
But as a rule these silly clowns think of themselves as "commonsensical critical thinkers" not submitting to "the establishment brainwashing". :-))))))
Ahron Cohen said, "However, our approach is that when one suffers, the one who perpetrates the suffering is obviously guilty but he will never succeed if the victim did not deserve it in one way or another."
So, say, child abuse victims deserve to be abused in one way or another?
Does this person have an e-mail address, where I could ask him this question?
I remember the film Zombie Holocaust.
The makers of it insist it never happened(it really was that awful), film historians say otherwise. We need to address Zombie Holocaust denial NOW! The Nazi Holocaust can wait.
But yeah, if you're going to be sceptical about the Holocaust you need to be aware of what the actual claims were, not what someone else denying(not merely being sceptical, but *denying*) says the claims are. They're arguing with claims that were never made.
The White Power Ranger's 'Zord' was a White Tiger. I prefered the Dragon-Zord the Green Ranger had before he became the White Ranger.
The best one was still the Black Ranger's Triceratops, it had horns. I don't know why I remember this.
I find it beyond comprehension that anyone would attempt to minimize the atrocities the Nazis perpetrated on millions of innocent people.
You can have your racist, backwards political agenda. But denying the deaths of millions of people at the hands of a brutal regime is another story altogether.
The very interesting forensic investigation of Birkenau proves quite convincingly that alleged crematoria of Birkenau were hastily contrived frauds mocked up by the Red Army commissars.
In particular, in the published blueprints of the Birkenau crematoria it is alleged large chimney stacks connected with arrays of ovens by underground canals to carry smoke and exhaust gases.
Extensive investigations of the site have indicated that neither these underground smoke canals or any vestiges of them can be found. This evidence has been produced using surface photographs and subsurface remote sensing.
Without these underground canals it can be demonstrated that the alleged blueprints of the killing centers are in reality Soviet frauds. This provides additional confirmation that the findings of the Leuchter and Rudolf reports that the associated alleged gas chambers were never exposed to repeated doses of cyanide gas were also correct.
This report, to be titled The Second Krege Report: Majdanek and Auschwitz/Birkenau is to be published in the Spring of 2008.
"Rashid Harouin", judging by his Krema denial by the way of underground flue denial, is most probably the the well-known troll "polardude" aka "Lurkerthe" ( http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/06/polardude-aka-lurker… ). At least "no flues" is specifically polardude's argument.
Anyway, anybody claiming that there were no Kremas loses credibility even among deniers. As for Krege, he has no credibility whatsoever ( http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2006/05/ah-these-codoh-gentl… ).
Give me a break. The real holocaust is the one perpetrated by using the holohoax to ethnically cleanse westerners from their own countries.
Your 'Vergassungskeller' document is a joke. Where is your source, I am sick of you holohoax swallowers quoting proof but not showing it. I can produce the red cross document showing that no more than 300,000 deaths at the concentration camps, and none of them were by gassing.
http://www.aijf.org/death_figures.html
More on your sacred holo hoax here:
http://christianparty.net/holocaust.htm
http://vho.org/Intro/GB/Flyer.html
Give me a break. The real holocaust is the one perpetrated by using the holohoax to ethnically cleanse westerners from their own countries.
Your 'Vergassungskeller' document is a joke. Where is your source, I am sick of you holohoax swallowers quoting proof but not showing it. I can produce the red cross document showing no more than 300,000 deaths at the concentration camps, and none of them were by gassing.
http://www.aijf.org/death_figures.html
More on your sacred holo hoax here:
http://christianparty.net/holocaust.htm
http://vho.org/Intro/GB/Flyer.html
"My" Vergasungskeller document is a joke? Why don't you show that you even know what is is, asshole, and then I'll tell you its provenance. K?
a.m.
Here's what is is, pottymouth
From Merriam Webster
Main Entry: is
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German ist is (from sIn to be), Latin est (from esse to be), Greek esti (from einai to be)
Now lets see your 'proof' of the millions of gassed jews.
Timmy has already shown that he is a Nazi ignoramus. But apparently he begs for more humiliation.
His Red Cross document is only an incomplete death toll for registered prisoners of concentration camps. Most of the Jewish victims weren't registered and weren't killed in concentration camps (Treblinka II, e.g., wasn't a concentration camp).
He has not shown that Vergasungskeller document is a joke.
His links are the usual denier boilerplate, dredging up the old canards like World Almanac ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examination_of_Holocaust_denial#Jewish_pop… ) and have no credibility whatsoever.
Poor retarded Timmy. So easily refuted.
Tim Johnson said:
"Now lets see your 'proof' of the millions of gassed jews."
It was said earlier that no one claimed they were all gassed.
You don't know what the Vergasungskeller document is, so you flame me for a typo.
I win!
a.m.
Yep, that's about the level of their ability to "debate."
At least their hero David Irving will soon be free. They need all the help they can get if they're still attacking the straw man that there were 6 million Jews gassed.
If the holycaust is as irrefutable as the exterminationists claim it is, then why does ser-gay refuse to accept any of the nafcash ( http://www.nafcash.com/ )challenges? I particularly like the Babi Yar Cold Case Challenge have you seen what one has to do to become a claimant?) $230,000.00 in reward money that has gone unclaimed for over two years - that says it all. What's wrong Andrew and ser-gay? Don't you want to put an end to holocaust denial?
Ah sweet Jane, you hit the nail on the head. But I'll tell you why Sir-gay and his boyfriend Andjew won't accept any of the NAFCASH challenges - they're first and foremost cowards. Second, they're liars and frauds. Third, they're jews. What more needs to be said jane? Just this -
No graves - no Treblinka holocaust.
:|
Where do these people come from?
I don't know where they come from, but they're using a technique beloved of cranks and pseudoscientists the world over: The bogus challenge.
Getting back to Janes question - Why won't the cowardly couple of sir-gay and andjew accept the Babi Yar Cold Case Challenge? How hard could it be to win IF there really was a Babi Yar holocaust? The legitimate challenge >
Lest you've given credence to the most vacuous holocaust within the holocaust of them all (that's the result of a lifetime of incessant brainwashing at work), NAFCASH is offering a $5,000.00 reward for locating JUST ONE of the alleged murder victims at Babi Yar. THE BABI YAR COLD CASE CHALLENGE - You must SCIENTIFICALLY - FORENSICALLY prove the remains EXACT location. The cremated remains must constitute AT LEAST one complete individual. JUST ONE SINGLE GRAVE! - JUST ONE CREMATED JEW! Remember, IF there was a Babi Yar holocaust, then there are huge mass graves to prove it. (And for each alleged murder victim, there is at least one bullet and shell casing as well - one could easily locate these alleged huge mass graves with a cheap metal detector IF they actually existed.) All one has to do to become a claimant for THE BABI YAR COLD CASE CHALLENGE is to have the findings of your investigation published on this spurious website here >
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/
What are you waiting for boys? After all, you do want to put an end to holocaust denial - don't you?
No graves - No Babi Yar holocaust
Let's clear up some of sir-gay's and Orac's misinformation about the Treblinka CSI Challenge. You can verify it yourself here >
http://www.nafcash.com/
$200,000.00 REWARD For locating JUST ONE of the alleged "HUGE MASS GRAVES" OF TREBLINKA. You must SCIENTIFICALLY - FORENSICALLY prove the grave's EXACT location, its EXACT dimensions and its EXACT volumetric density. The cremated remains must total AT LEAST one percent of the alleged mass murder. JUST ONE MASS GRAVE! - JUST ONE PERCENT!
...And since Michael Shermer (the president of the "Skeptics" Society and publisher of "SKEPTIC" magazine) has such disdain for real skeptics (i.e. - intelligent / logical people who refuse to share his delusion that millions of Jews can magically vanish from the face of the earth without leaving a trace), "SKEPTIC" magazine should be more than willing to publish the results of any scientific investigation that claims to have proven that the largest of the asinine pure extermination center legends has been forensically proven to be a fact. Therefore, all one has to do to become a claimant for THE TREBLINKA CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION CHALLENGE TM reward, is to have said claims / results published in "SKEPTIC" magazine. Now, just how hard should it be for the "we-must-see-compelling-evidence-before-we-believe" sham "Skeptics" Society to prove just 1% of the alleged mass murder at Treblinka IF this story is true?
Now, one more time for the simpletons > No graves - No Treblinka holocaust