A credulous treatment of the mercury militia on PBS

PBS fundraiser time at my station means nonstop Weil, Null and Chopra. They like new age woo as much as they hate relgious-type woo.

There is time to change the minds at PBS by writing to them. We could use some information- who are the principle authorities (doctors and organizations) to refer them to. It can be a problem to persuade broadcast executives that this is not a genuine, scientific controversy.

Unfortunately, many parents of afflicted children need to see themselves as the heroic parents in Lorenzo's Oil. It's an admirable dream, but it predisposes them to believe the hollow promises of quackery.

Ten years ago I was a firm believer in vaccines but I have always been untra cautious. My daughter got her first jab at 6 months when 200 per cent fit. 100 per cent not being good enough. I jest - a little. She got about two injections only or thereabouts for all the common things. DTP and measles. BCG coming in her teens. Not 10 at once except over my dead body. One at a time max. Spaced out also and after all effects had gone if any.

In other words Take care and Take care again.

She got ill 3 weeks later after the DTP and for years had thick crusty highly infectious scabs on her mouth and face; impetigo the doc called it.

Although highly contagious it never switched to us? My daughter never had another illness for 20 years just this one or two temporally aligned with the vaccine. The impetigo died away after many years of problems for her.

Today I am still a believer just, but the USA system of jabs at 1 day for an illness that it has made little impact on and you only get by blood to blood transfer - sex for example. This is madness.

In France very little mercury ever in vaccines and very little autism or SIDS.

In UK no vaccines before 2 months and no SIDS before 2 months.

Ten years ago I was linking other nerve toxins with SIDS in small amounts. I found some correlations but not as many as I would like.

The correlation of mercury brain destroying toxic chemical and SIDS is 100 per cent and not unfortunately 200 per cent.

And to me it's not a gun

It's not a smoking gun.

It's an exploding gun.

John Fryer Chemist

Anti-autism woo has always annoyed me more than the rest. I have Asperger's Syndrome, which has -- features, I don't count it as a disease so symptoms doesn't really fit, similar to Autism, I have a niece who is autistic, that doesn't make her sick! It makes her different- I know there are people who are severely autistic- to the point where it _does_ become a sickness. But many parents treat there autistic children as if they are problems, and not as if they were children. It reminds me of how homosexuality is often treated-- as if it were a disease-- people are _born_ this way, and there often is nothing wrong with that. Maybe theres no cure-- because there isn't anything to warrant one. I don't know- I know that my niece is the most good natured child I've ever known. Sure- sometimes shes a little more closed off- spaced out- distant- whatever. But that doesn't mean she needs to be subjected to "Cures" from morons and homeopaths.

If Science were to someday "cure" autism, that is- find a reliable, side-effect free way to make someone with autism act like someone without autism- then fine, we've "fixed" autism, all better. But until then- maybe we should stop treating these poor kids like they were diseased animals- maybe we should stop blaming everyone for what is wrong with them, and concentrate on whats right with them.

Like I said- These Woo's have always been a little personal- it's always felt like the woo was attacking _my_ family. My fellow Aspies and Autistics, maybe theres nothing wrong with us. Maybe we're just fine.

~~Joe

DTP shot and impetigo three weeks later? How can you assume any correlation, much less causation? I've had impetigo three times, always during mosquito season when everyone was walking around with bites, wearing less clothing so more skin comes in contact with skin or surfaces that will then come in contact with other peoples' skin. The doctors always told me that it's so contagious that you could even just be in an enclosed space with someone who had it and start breaking out a day or so later.

And why is it that, speaking of correlation, rates of autism went up while preservatives in vaccines were going down? Oh, I won't even start, because Orac has this well-covered.

One thing I was thinking of, though, is that the genetic angle probably needs to be approached differently. While it doesn't look like there's an obvious connection, with autistic children being born regularly into families with a history of autism, there could be a connection with similar things like ADD, depression, etc. Most of the people I've talked to who have ADD and/or depression have a family history of those, but from personal experience as well, families with a lot of ADD/Depression, and even dyslexia, end up with one or more autistic relatives. I don't know if any study has addressed any correlation among these to snake out a genetic cause. There also seem to be geographic pockets of high autism rates, and I wonder whether it's because of families that carry it staying in the same place generation after generation, rather than an environmental factor being involved.

As for finding a cure, I think that as long as wild shots in the dark are being made about the cause, no progress will be made. Most neurological problems are being worked on by scientists, and that's where the good information will come from. In the meantime, those of us with ADD and/or depression are pretty OK with taking medications that work, both in testing and in ourselves, without knowing exactly how they fix things up. It would be nice to know, eventually, but in the meantime I'm happy there's something that's been tested and is regulated by the FDA. However, we know it's not a cure. If we forget a dose, or get used to a dose and need to increase it, or our insurance companies force us to switch, it serves as a potent reminder that we're not "cured". There are tons of conditions that require lifelong medication, and those who have them are equally accepting of a normal life even if there's no "cure". Yet.

Of course, the problem is that people who are looking for an autism "cure" also need to find something to blame for the cause that would leave room for a cure. Accepting that a child was born with it and that your options involve a lot of work with him or her is a lot harder than coming up with a nice cut-and-dried cause to pin it on. Still, though I don't understand a parent who'd rather introduce untested, unapproved substances into his child's body rather than getting hands-on with cognitive and behavioral therapies that have shown success in clinical environments, and help the parent work with the child as he is, not the way the parent wishes he were.

According to John Fryer, no UK babies die of SIDS under two months. Complete rubbish.

" My daughter got her first jab at 6 months when 200 per cent fit. She got about two injections only or thereabouts for all the common things. DTP and measles. BCG coming in her teens. Not 10 at once except over my dead body. One at a time max. Spaced out also and after all effects had gone if any.
She got ill 3 weeks later after the DTP and for years had thick crusty highly infectious scabs on her mouth and face; impetigo the doc called it.
Although highly contagious it never switched to us? My daughter never had another illness for 20 years"
Sounds like the vaccinations worked and the scabs were impetigo. Think of all those things she could have got if not vaccinated. When I was young it was common to see older people with withered limbs from polio. Luciily I got the vaccine.

@ John Fryer,

Have you ever heard that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing? A child encounters many antigens each day, adding a few more in a multi-vaccination is trivial. Whereas, multi-injection spares them trauma (and, saves parents' money).

Also, you should have learned that correlation does not equal causation, even if it is real (as opposed to your tenuous connection with impetigo and incorrect assertion about SIDS).

Another chemist.

"In France very little mercury ever in vaccines and very little autism or SIDS.

In UK no vaccines before 2 months and no SIDS before 2 months."

Really? Based on what? The rates of autism in France and Britain are in lockstep with ours. In fact, France has an even stricter vaccination schedule than ours, and so children from infancy on receive more than one vac at a time. An Isere study showed a rate similar to the UK in 1993. A French study. As for SIDS--tell that to British and French parents who have lost their children. And how SIDS relates to this issue, I have no idea. There are several possible causes of SIDS, which is what I learned after my sister nearly lost her boy to SIDS.

I will definitely be writing to my PBS station to request that if they show this special, they also show programming that details the latest research findings into ASDs, and what works, what doesn't work, and what may be the source of autism.

This phobia regarding autism reminds a little bit of what happened when herpes became an epidemic in the seventies and early eighties. Then something came along that put it all into perspective.

Kids can be hard to raise, regardless of the situation. Some kids are hard to work with, and it has nothing to do with some kind of "pathology." Sometimes I think the instant gratification culture we now find ourselves in is part of the problem. If the kid is driving us crazy, we need to fix it NOW.

And I'll keep it at that. As a person with HFA, this hits too close.

Joe - thank you for pointing that out. It bugs the hell out of me, too. People giving their kids possibly harmful treatments (like chelation therapy) to "cure" their autism? These parents will rant about "mainstream doctors" - but what mainstream doctor would perform a therapy that endangers a child just to "cure" something non-fatal and nondegenerative, that responds well to ? I suppose these miracle working doctors do it for free, so there's no profit motive...

To Rjaye
Figures are in lockstep:
USA infant mortality 6.89 per 1 000
France 3.41 per 1 000
That might be lockstep to you.
To me it indicates the death rate in USA is more than twice that of France.
I repeat France has not the problems of either the USA or UK. And I didn't make up the figures; the respective Government Statisticians are the liars if you disagree with them.
France does not nomally give more than 1 vaccine at a time.
Who had GWS? Not France. (GWS Gulf War Syndrome)

To Joe You accuse me of having a little knowledge. Briefly this is my little knowledge:

48 years as a chemist including the last 12 years researching chemicals and health and 7 of those looking specifically at vaccine adverse effects.
I have worked to get chemicals banned, drugs halted and people out of prison being put it in by the adverse effects of vaccines unrecognised at the time of their convictions.
Thimerosal is not a bad chemical it is a killer.
Nothing less than a worldwide ban for thimerosal after 70 years of 'safe' use will do for me.
John Fryer Chemist

Hi Alison
Problems.
I didn't imply correlation or causation with illness and impetigo. This impetigo was no way contagious to me. Therefore I don't think it was impetigo.
In the UK there are no mosquitoes, certainly not where I lived. The month was December-January and the mosquitoes would need anti freeze in a UK winter.
They are a menace in France though. Every town has huge stagnant ponds which are not a feature of the British landscape. I get about three or so come into the house every year and they get killed by electrocution definitely not pesticide attack.
The WHO (not JF) say that mercury has possibly no level at which you won't find adverse effects. If you insist it stays in up to half a dozen vaccines and other injectables how can you even begin to look at figures and what they mean?
I insist that to put a brain destroying chemical into infants is attempted murder.
John Fryer Chemist

# ^ William W. Thompson, Ph.D., et al. (2007). "Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 years". New England Journal of Medicine 357 (13): 1281-1292.
No correlation.

To Sophia

OOPS

You are the best Sophia!

I engaged my mouth before my brain on this one!

Deaths in the UK are one third or more at ages before they get vaccines.

This is where we need more information as these cases are the key to whats going on as I read it.

How do you find out who they are and if they were from rhesus negative families, who are at well I guess 40 per cent from memory?

John Fryer Chemist

Hi Sophia

Timing of SIDS and vaccines

Putting my point more accurately and thanks for pointing out my error again.

For example UK 1996 2 645 neonatal deaths of which 53 are SIDS. This comes out at 2 per cent deaths by SIDS.

In the same year post neonatal deaths 1 222 of which 371 are SIDS. This comes out at 30 per cent deaths by SIDS.

The figures themselves are not to be thought of as 100 per cent accurate only the end result of which there can be no argument.

Pointers to mercury toxicity would include the excess of male deaths mentioned in your ref article.

Another pointer is deaths to underweight infants also from your ref article.

My pointer to deaths by timing to vaccinations is not a sweeping certainty but 30 per cent is a factor of 15 times more than deaths before vaccines. Enough to cause concern but not counting out deaths before normal vaccinations begin.

We have lots of factors which fog the issue but many mothers have rho gam during pregnancy which contained mercury.

Again factors for SIDS will be multifactorial.

Mercifully a healthy baby looked after should not die in any event.

However there are no studies to show if these 2 per cent were from rho gam mums or even mums whose babies may have got early vaccines for whatever reason.

The studies in the UK are thorough for the risks known at the time.

The risks from mercury in vaccines have only come to light in the last few years. Mercury was removed only in 2004 from injection to UK infants although obviously vaccine makers are not negligent and have worked in this direction for some time.

Back in the middle 80's the SIDs reached 5 times higher in the UK but neonatal SIDS were similar for all years and the SIDS deaths did mirror vaccine use in a very disturbing way then.

It is essential to try to focus research on this link for the reason that hundreds of parents have had their lives wrecked by accusations of SBS or MSBP which may turn out to be no more than toxic harm. Worse many rest in prison in 2007.

Research has to be directed to avenues where there is hope for progress and what can be better than investigating if a brain destroying nerve toxin can perhaps destroy life as well?

Truth is what we all seek and every messenger can make errors. It is good to have knowledgable people discuss their findings and experiences.

Chemistry is for the most part an exact or pretty exact discipline. I worked on 1/3 of 1 per cent inaccuracy for volume measurements and better for quantitative experiments. Figures for accuracy in medicine can dip to 30 per cent at times on more rigourous examination. The thought of imprisoning for example Sally Clark for life on the offchance that a vaccine given to her son 6 hours before his death could be discounted at a level of 100 per cent non involvement still haunts me today.

This error had very serious repercussions and to state vaccines are 100 per cent safe in a court of law under oath to me is perjury.

John Fryer Chemist

John Fryer: I was going to point you to several sources on the lack of a link between vaccines and autism. But I see you're already spamming the comments at Left Brain Right Brain with your anti-vaccination obsession. I'll leave the experts there to carry on showing up your lack of science.

Sophia8,

It is not worth anymore with John Fryer. Perhaps once upon a time he was a real scientist, but something has happened to remove all scientific sensibility.

He has become obsessive with whatever research he claims to read and is immune to reason. He claims to read several papers a day, so much that he can't keep them straight, but he uses them to formulate his theories.

For anyone who has ever written a science paper, even one for a 6th grade science fair... you know that statements MUST be backed up with documentation. John Fryer has forgotten this, and is not willing to correct this oversight.

He is also refusing to read and accept any other science that contradicts his preconceived ideas. He will not be swayed. He has the classic closed mind.

Therefore, I will not read anymore of his rantings, nor will I respond to him anymore. I will perhaps post this type of reply to anyone who mistakenly decides that he is reasonable enough to debate. Just like I post John Scudamore's statement on how to protect against satanic black lines as a way to show what kind of mindset one is dealing with:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.breastfeeding/msg/bfc7020039…

I did miss whatever spamming he did at LeftBrain/RightBrain because that is no longer there. Unfortunately, showing their true despicable colors another anti-vax anti-child scumbag has caused that site to be shut down by threatening the child of that blog's owner.

Yeah, shouldn't feed the trolls and all, but I wanted to add a clarification in case anyone else might misconstrue my statement about mosquito season/impetigo. The correlation here is that impetigo is more contagious during mosquito season because more people have skin exposed and more people have broken skin, not because the mosquitos themselves have anything to do with transmitting impetigo. Of course, anyone who looks up impetigo in a reputable source would already know it's not a mosquito-borne disease. Or caused by vaccinations of any kind.

And just in case John Fryer forgot: US child mortality is higher because the UK, France, Germany, and Austria count extremely premature babies as stillborn anyway (here, unless a 23-weeker is decomposing, resus will be attempted); also, newborns that are technically alive but don't survive the first few minutes are regarded as stillborn. Correct for that, and the result is as usual: The "alternative-medicine" fanboys are wrong.

"48 years as a chemist including the last 12 years researching chemicals and health and 7 of those looking specifically at vaccine adverse effects".

Mr. Fryer,

Thank you, thank you, thank you... The world needs many more people like you. All the best!

Pff. No true chemist would lump together elemental mercury, methyl mercury, and ethyl mercury. He's lost his perspective.

"Ten years ago I was linking other nerve toxins with SIDS in small amounts. I found some correlations but not as many as I would like."

Impartial much?

To Shiritai

No, true chemist would lump together methyl mercury and ethyl mercury.
In my cynical mood I could say I agree totally with you. If you do an analysis of thimerosal you will find it contains more than 1 per cent of methyl mercury as an impurity and in the body the first metabolite of thimerosal formed is ethyl mercury.
The vaccine makers therefore lump the two together. By your definition they are not true chemists.
This is nonsense. We are here not to cross swords but move forward science and hopefully cut down at least one factor that causes ill health.
You say I lump together mercury the element, yes, you are right here. But chemists like doctors abbreviate and again mercury is used by chemists not to mean elemental mercury alone but this and all its compounds inorganic and organic and its ions et al. You can't keep saying this every time you mention mercury etc etc. I have purposely missed out other forms of mercury the combinations are endless.
But it is a chemical fact that the brain destroying property of thimerosal cannot be changed it is its fundamental property and dilution just prolongs the time for harm.
Everyone seems to imagine methyl mercury is more harmful and they are right and wrong. In the attack on liver, heart and kidneys et al this is true. But for specifically the attack on the brain ethyl mercury the first metabolite breaks down to inorganic merury ions and this is now 5 times more deadly than methyl mercury at the equivalent concentration. This is chemical fact and not JF fact or fiction.
The change to inorganic mercury and specifically the ionic form and specifically in the oxidation state of plus two occurs and it rests almost forever in the brain and destroys it bit by bit. No 7 day half life now.
Further the metals like mercury are the catalytic metals and the chemical changes they drive will go on endlessly even with small amounts of the compound. The only way to stop this in technical jargon is to poison the catalyst.
A case of the poison being poisoned!
I repeat with the knowledge gained for generations and especially in recent years, anyone who knowingly injects thimerosal, thimersal or merthiolate into infants or even adults is technically guilty of attempted murder.
And yes when science proves a point there are just two things you can do.
1 Do something
2 Ignore it

At the moment 2 gains.

John Fryer Chemist

Hi Sophia

Sorry you are dropping out of this discussion.

I find the same thing with government and regulators but not industry who are like me so aware that if you read what they say in their material safety data sheets no one would ever use their products. Few do read them and the chemical industry is more powerful than government and regulatory agencies.

I checked your reference but I am sorry it seems incomprehensible; can you explain simply the point of it. It gives references to satan etc and I do not see the connection of satan to chemistry, except if you are suggesting use of thimerosal is satanic in which case I would agree.

Hi Felix
Again you are right.

But isn't it strange that even when discussing the number of dead people that two countries can't use the same system?

The discussion of numbers of people with autism therefore by your logic will be impossible. Do we just say there is nothing we can do we are totally innumerate?

The same thing occurs with VAERS. I was given a reference to a paper that discusses 18 or 19 deaths claimed from Hep B vaccines. One of these turned out to be a baby who co slept and then died. At least 12 were SIDS or we don't know why they died.

A workshop was put out by the authors and their bosses to explain the success of the vaccine and its good safety record.

According to biased people there it was anything but safe. These biased people were top scientists in their fields. Other biased people said and insisted the vaccine was and is safe. These were the safety officers for the vaccine companies and the government regulatory agencies.

In the middle were parents who thought their children had been harmed by Hep B vaccine. They have no scientific knoweledge often and they have no billion pounds in the bank. They have dead children or injured children only.

Lets move forward to help them and put scoring points to one side please.

In any event parents there put the myth to the 18 or so deaths. Infants with no knowledge are being slaughtered and maimed in the fight to get healthy children and adults.

You will find anyone who says I am anti vaccine is a liar. But is it right or wrong to insist on the safest vaccines ONLY?

The logic to export mercury containing vaccines to every country around the world from the USA escapes me completely.

Orac, I hate to interrupt the steady stream of blather, but if you feel strongly about having some sort of scientific counterpoint to this on PBS, I would recommend passing along your concerns to Sheril over at The Intersection or Tara at Aetiology. They currently do some blogging for Correlations, a science show on PBS done in conjunction with WIRED magazine. Maybe they could pass along some your suggestion to the show's producers, and they could put together a segment to air around the same time the documentary is shown...

I've seen Beautiful Son in its entirety, and it is every bit as bad as you think. The two credulous hippies fail to learn any lessons at all about the worthlessness of biomed approaches.

To their credit, they are rightly overwhelmed by the woo overload at the DAN conference they attend. But they buy into it anyway, leading to some chelation scenes that are just horrible to watch. Then the family hooks up with Rev. Lisa Sykes and the descent into madness really begins. Spoiler alert: the bogeyman is thimerosal. Dun-dun-dun!

Highly recommended if you enjoy getting pissed off.

To Shiritai

You accuse me of not being impartial.

I have to say you are 100 per cent correct.

While researching this aspect (toxic effects to our children) of possible harm and death to infants I joined a group in London where I met directly or indirectly more than 1 000 such biased people who suffered from conditions like cancer, ME, MS through to AD.
The only thing they had in common was exposure to pesticides and more often than not organophosphates.
These people put in a Class Action against the chemical companies that had wrecked their lives.
After 11 years and millions of pounds of research and paying for legal and scientific studies; out of the 1 100, eleven only got all the way to the High Court.
The verdict of the judge - 'You have all abused the Process of the Law.'
In my five years of work on OP's I came to the conclusion that the UK Governments Epidemiologist who found a 100 per cent correlation between OP's and BSE was correct.
In the multi million pound open enquiry into BSE, I wrote more than 100 letters to the inquiry to offer a witness statement. It was never accepted for whatever reason.
The word diazinon cannot be found to be at fault in the 16 million word document but these chemicals were the ones that the Government Epidemiologist found his 100 per cent correlation.
Strange but True.
I believe that governments and regulators suffer from my fault too.

Kind Regards

John Fryer

Is it me, or does John Fryer's "prose" seem to be making less sense than usual?

I am especially intrigued by his "...100% correlation..." between OP (organophate pesticides) and BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy). Does this mean that 100% of the cows that developed BSE had been exposed to organophosphate pesticides? If so, SO WHAT?

Even today, the use of organophosphate pesticides on the farm or ranch is widespread enough that it would be hard to find cows that hadn't been exposed to them.

So, while 100% of cows that developed BSE (which is caused by prions, not organophosphate pesticides) were exposed to OP's, so were the cows that did not develop BSE.

Mr. Fryer sees a massive government conspiracy of silence in this data. Clearly, "the government" is conspiring to hide from us the knowledge that exposure to OP's is completely unrelated to BSE.

Mr. Fryer is clearly not using the scientific education that he claims to have received. How sad.

Prometheus

Hi Prometheus,

I don't understand if you are a scientist or not? I don't understand your view at all even if you are not a scientist.

The OP's are neurotoxins, that is fact. Neurotoxins cause neuro problems that is evident. So we have cows on a farm which for centuries have mainly been fine. We start using a new product OP's and after five months we get neuroproblems in cows.

And you say SO WHAT.

I say its a RED FLAG before a BULL.

OK perhaps it is a cow. But Everyone can make a mistake.

You seem to say just BULL.

John Fryer

You can fool ALL of the people SOME of the time.
You can fool SOME of the people ALL of the time.
But you cant fool ALL of the people ALL of the time.

The problems with vaccines are just this.

They do contain neurotoxins.

Neurotoxins do cause neuro problems.

Autism is a neuro problem.

We need to take out neurotoxins from vaccines.

Whether they cause problems or not.

You can fool ALL of the people SOME of the time.
You can fool SOME of the people ALL of the time.
But you cant fool ALL of the people ALL of the time.

John Fryer

John Fryer said " don't understand if you are a scientist or not? I don't understand your view at all even if you are not a scientist."

Well we know you are NOT! Even a 12 year old child knows that in order to get full credit for a science project he/she must include a full bibliography of references. Since Mr. Fryer cannot keep track of his references and refuses to use them, then he has lost track of his training is is therefore no longer a real scientist.

Deal with it.

Hi HCN

A very poisonous attack on me.

Original research can't always have references by logic. Einstein couldn't tell you where to find his E=mc squared from but all the world accepts it. I don't know where he gets it from.

Regretfully a lot of what I find is maybe restricted to me.

The link for example between SIDS and mercury in vaccines.

This if proved would have a lot of effects. I am not responsible for those effects. The effects are the responsibility of government and regulators. It is the responsibility of those who put more and more toxic chemicals into little children. They have known of my work and hypothesis for more than a decade.
The fact that they can't fault my arguments means that they are happy that their power can prevent people finding out the truth.

I will put up some references but if you think its reasonable for me to have at hand 100 000 references with a budget of zero pounds in the last decade, then yes you are right I am not a scientist.

I have come up with yet another new theory today so how about this for you to cut me down on.

The head circumference charts by the CDC are flawed and mean a thousand or more children in the USA suffer devastating neurological damage to their brains and no one knows or it seems cares. Give us doctors our plutonium radioactive tracers and X radiation and we will prove the children are harmed by vicious parents. A bit of 10 cent lasso tape and one measurement by an underpaid lab tech that disproves the doctors with their millionaire life styles and big toys cannot be permitted in the new order of 2007.

Is this something I should say nothing about and let the slaughter continue?

Do you want to say I am mad and that the children are fine after their Hep B shots and great big heads?

Toxic chemicals cause edema or swelling. If the CDC use the heads of babies after edema and head swelling then they will give charts out to deny such edema occurs and the parents when the child collapses get the charges of SBS.

Compare head charts of everywhere else in the world then look at USA data and they do not say the same thing.

I may in time be proven 100 per cent wrong on this but don't I have the right to say hang on where did you get your figures from?

If you look carefully at what Wakefield says he doesn't say don't vaccinate, he says vaccinate SAFELY.

His worries made thousands realise they had been conned by their doctors. This costs those that pollute and they have to pay for their pollution and we see smart scientists being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds to stop one thousand pound pay outs which would tell the world Wakefield is right.

I am not a smart chemist I don't get fat cheques. But then I am not saying brain destroying mercury are like brain food put more of it in our little kids.

There was a guy back decades ago who thought like me and was the boss of the top USA regulatory agency. The day after his retirement they destroyed his library and lifes work.

We knew more when I was at college than we do today. Today we know the power of the almighty dollar but we don't know the power of almighty brain destroying mercury compounds and neurotoxic OP's in our vaccines.

To All
Are you aware of the scientific experiment carried out in the dark to identify an object?
One person found it was something long and hairy.
One person found it was something with a tough hard outer skin.
Another that it was tubular and contained a watery liquid.
Yet another found huge curled flaps of material.
Everybody found something entirely different.

If the findings are genuine which they often are then it takes the genius to put them all together to get a sensible result.
This was a description of the hunt for the cause of AD.
It could be the hunt for the cause of autism also.
Before you dismiss other peoples ideas, think that they might have one part of the answer that you need to come up with the most astonishing conclusions.
We have an elephant.
John Fryer

Hi
I suggest vaccine companies should make beer, its much better for us, but if they can't make vaccines don't bother; beer is harder to make according to many.

You probably all know how vaccines are made? If not go here -

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2163175142473074044

And this stuff is probably safer!

John Fryer

Mr. Fryer,

I am, in fact, a scientist. You, it would appear, are no longer one.

It's been painful to watch you humiliate yourself in public. Since I can do nothing to make you stop, I will at least stop watching.

Prometheus

Hi all

A reference found for the first time tonight

What does this tell us?

PDF] "Hepatitis B Vaccine: Helping or Hurting Public Health"Format de fichier: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Version HTML
how VAERS hepatitis B adverse reaction reports show nothing out of the ..... He became extremely fearful of bumps to his head and soon the slightest ...
www.thinktwice.com/Hep_Hear.pdf - Pages similaires

John Fryer

Hi Prometheus

Another chemist humiliated was Linus Pauling. He got two Nobel Prizes but was humiliated because he didn't like brain destroying chemicals either.

In fact his ideas ran so counter to modern medicine that his journal of orthomolecular medicine is filtered out of many mainstream search engines in 2007 - Med Line possibly?

His ideas of the health properties of Vitamin C would see most big pharma become little pharma.

I think his lack of respect for thalidomide, vioxx and the ilk and a liking for natural products may have had something to do with his longevity. He lived to be nearly 100.

He was thought odd by the drug and vaccine companies but he did get two Nobel Prizes.

Perhaps instead of shooting the messenger you can tell me why Lisa Belkin died at 5 weeks straight after her second hep B vaccine with a blown up head? Perhaps she was SBS by her dad too? See ref above if you are ignorant of this basic story one of thousands similar. It does pay to read and you get behind the propaganda but if you are a chemist perhaps you are part of the obfuscation process? What is your motive for denying brain destroying chemicals are harmful and are OK to recommend again for little children in 2007 USA?

Do you know dozens of parents in prison with stories like this to tell. Because if you don't I do. Michelle Dickinson UK mom who lost her son to a blown up brain and is paying the price for the doctors like Professor Sir Roy Meadow who was exonerated as a good doctor although he strangely destroyed all his raw data to prove moms are killers. His evidence indirectly put her in prison. You see she has MSBP. MSBP has been dishonoured but she rests in prison with a dishonoured illness. Meadow's Syndrome it is also known as in honour of this man. A UK inquiry into the many hundreds who had been put in prison or lost their families through this man resulted in hardly one case being altered. Why because they investigated themselves.

I checked out head swelling and you come up with more than 100 causes. SBS figures prominently but where is head swelling from vaccines? I can't see it anywhere in all these hundreds of causes of head swelling. Are one hundred thousand vaccine adverse effects people lying. Yes of course they are.

But I do believe one or two are telling the truth.

And I fight for them and if I have to humiliate myself in front of you.

Boy, I haven't started yet.

Kind Regards

John Fryer

Another chemist humiliated was Linus Pauling. He got two Nobel Prizes but was humiliated because he didn't like brain destroying chemicals either.

No, Linus Pauling humiliated himself when late in life he abandoned science in favor of pseudoscience that claims that megadoses of vitamin C can cure cancer (they can't) and for promoting a form of pseudoscientific quackery known as "orthomolecular medicine."

And there are many people that eat nothing but fatty foods and smoke that live to be 100 as well. Genetics and luck (hit by a bus) is a far greater influence on longevity than simply a heavy dose of Mr. Pauling's Vitamin C ration.

"Perhaps instead of shooting the messenger you can tell me why Lisa Belkin died at 5 weeks straight after her second hep B vaccine with a blown up head? Perhaps she was SBS by her dad too? See ref above if you are ignorant of this basic story one of thousands similar. It does pay to read and you get behind the propaganda but if you are a chemist perhaps you are part of the obfuscation process? What is your motive for denying brain destroying chemicals are harmful and are OK to recommend again for little children in 2007 USA?"

Why don't you tell us what the official coroner report concluded rather than insinuate vaccine related death.
You present your case much like a UFO programs presents thier material; with insinuation that there must be alien beings visiting us, what else could it be?

Is the official coroner's report of this child's death a botched job or part of a conspiracy as well?

Uncle Dave

You get the official coroners report on the Belkin death. They are secret like everything that is needed to hide harm from brain destroying mercury chemicals et al in dangerous but not SAFE vaccines.

I worked on the Angela Cannings case and one doctor who was an honoured 'member' of the Portia Group for his fairness was the chief prosecution witness. His opinion was she was guilty. I gave the solicitor for whom this was his first murder case some information that he came to my house for and wouldn't go away without it. It described a list of 12 markers for Cot Death. In his autopsy report he concluded all of these factors and nothing else. His conclusion though was death by murder.
So why did a doctor who found markers exactly the same as those described in highly respected peer reviewed medical journals as cot death conclude this was murder? Perhaps it was because he got a cheque for 50 000 pounds for saying she was guilty and a cheque for 0 pounds to say she was innocent. I don't know if he got this sum, it is the sum for such black work that is normal.

In the event she got freed but the doctor never got taken to task, never paid his fee back and carries on with his MSBP, SBS work no doubt?

Have you read my reference article yet? Is this the best you can criticise it for.

We see Satan involved by my adversaire. Now we see UFO sited as evidence against me.

Can we stick to science or hypothesis please?

Kind Regards

John Fryer

Sorry Orac you've touched on a very tender spot there? OUCH OUCH and OUCH!

There is no evidence that vitamin C cures cancer! Firstly if you take vitamin C, don't stop suddenly it can and does KILL.

Secondly I can't go into cancer and Vitamin C. I admit total ignorance at the moment on the good or bad effects of this stuff! I did also share your thoughts on this man but not today.

But if children had good doses of Vitamin C they would certainly make dangerous vaccines safer. There is a lot of work out there on this.

When I was young there was rationing, but Vitamin C was not only recommended but vital. If your mum didn't fill you up with Vitamin C, she might get charged with the 1940's equiv. of SBS and MSBP.

When my daughter was born in 1971, there was no cod liver oil, no vitamin C. Where had it gone? I say it had gone into making UK a rising case for SIDS numbers.

Again this is my hypothesis, no refs here again. but check out vitamin C and vaccines and see what you can find that's my advice. Google, google, google away.

Can we cure cancer? Some NZ doctors discovered hylopylori bacteria excuse my spelling I havn't looked at this for a long time. They discovered a man who was about to be operated on for stomach cancer. They suggested they zonk the bacteria first before the op. It worked and the cancer had gone! Not satan not UFO and not cancer. Hurray!

Ten years later these same people were saying what does it take to get our treatment in use by doctors. The treatment to cure was in use 10 per cent of the time.

The treatment to give medicines every day for life to help was used 90 per cent of the time.

Why pay every day for life for drugs which can be paid for one time with a cure?

If you don't know why I will tell you tomorrow.

Kind Regards

John Fryer

Hi Orac thanks for the chance to debate.

I have written to all the USA, government, regulator, medical and legal agencies so they know my ideas and choose the path they choose. Thousands of others do the same. I claim no uniqueness.

Some say follow the money. Scientists for example.

Some say follow the silence. Journalists for example.

I say follow history.

I live in Northern France. This is what I might have written to regulatory and Government agencies 60 years ago when mercury was in vaccines.

Dear Mr Hitler,

First of all let me congratulate you on your success in unifying Europe. History may say you are fifty years ahead of your time. I do like all the smart uniforms around. I want to buy a yellow star like you have in your homeland but why do some people charge so much for them?

I am writing to you about Henri Grognon who is autistic and has been moved to an institute in Germany. I think the works of Dr Kanner and Dr Bettelheim are completely wrong. I know they have been published much in the highly respected journals in Germany but a lot of people have different ideas.

I happen to believe that mercury is to blame. Farm workers here use copper, lead and mercury products for their seeds and often they suffer mental breakdowns. The children I know as president of the local Jewish autistic society believe that there is a connection to vaccines. Is there any way to see if any heavy metals are in our vaccines?

The new pesticide by Dr Schrader was very good and much safer but is not available now. Why?

I believe that research is vital in this nerve destroying chemical field and I would urge your scientists to study this urgently. It may prove the key to helping save more people like Henri from harm?

I have not heard from Hg for some time now and he was last sent to Belsen or Aushwitz.

I have seen recently pictures of the doctors and others there and they look so happy but I am worried that I haven't heard from Henri.

Is it possible for me to go to Aushwitz or Belsen and check that he is OK. He does suffer from autism and cannot manage well for himself like even tying up his shoelaces or managing himself for his toilet.

I would like to help him if possible.

Yours Sincerely

A Lemming

Hi

Mercury causes brain damage

To be serious this has been a scientific fact for centuries.

Look what Fritz Lorscheider found ten years ago in 1997.

commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/

You don't have to be too clever to realise what this film is saying.

But Fritz knows a thing or two.

His concentration could have been put much lower. Why wasn't it?

The concentration just happens to be that of a full blooded mercury vaccine when diluted in an infants body.

So if the mercury was evenly diluted it would in hours destroy the brains or some of them at least. It would be at this exact concentration. What happens now?

If it floated as a bolus perhaps the concentration would be a thousand times higher in the brain? What happens now?

What is the end result of destroying brain cells?

You tell me? I may not be accepted if I give an opinion.

What happens if you add lead. Nothing.

So lead is now out of harms way.

Lead is less damaging and mercury is being reintroduced to the child vaccine scheme in the USA.

What scheme is this?

There are two sides to every argument, so would a 1997 video like this produce harm for Fritz.

If he claimed that mercury kills children or causes autism yes he would be out in 3 days.

But Fritz is cunning but not too cunning for the lawyers at Calgary to have a go at him

www.ucalgary.ca/Transformation/GAZETTE/May19four98.html

John Fryer

Uncle Dave

Point of fact.

I am not insinuating that vaccines caused the death of Lisa Belkin.

I am stating that she 100 per cent was killed by the vaccine.

And I will go to court and be prepared to go to prison if proved wrong.

There is no doubt whatsoever.

To the best of my knowledge mercury is still in Hep B.

And a request twice about this and other matters to the Merck company which boasts a two day reply turn around for queries is silent on this matter. Follow the silence journalists say.

John Fryer

Of that I was clear.

Why would you go to court? In what capacity would you appear in court, are you a toxicologist?

Was there even a postmortem examination?? You never answered that question.

Hi Uncle Dave

I have never been to court to testify but I have assisted people in court and actually was promised a chance to testify for Angela Cannings but the solicitor a bit out of his depth renaged on his promise.

In the event Angela got double life for the death of three of her children and the evidence of the pathologist who thought SIDS symptoms were murder won the day. Yes, of course there would be a post mortem, it is obligatory for every child death in the UK.

After 18 months Angela was released and the Meadows guy was thrown out of the profession (he was not the pathologist but a highly paid Witch Finder General type).

Not as in all good fairy stories Meadows was given his professional qualifications back by a majority of 2 judges to 1.

He will never witness again or he would be lynched I hope.

The solicitor did warm to the task and has now three scalps to his credit. People like Angela he has saved rather late in the day.

He fell out with me or the other way around.

Now, why would people fall out with sweet old me?

Kind regards

John Fryer

TOXICOLOGY

Toxicologists quote Paracelsus at you when you inform them that mercury has no lower limit for harm. This level of danger (Mercury has no miniumum to induce harm) is accepted and admitted by the WHO in 2007 but not by those who DEFEND the use of mercury to manufacture vaccines in a 2007 committee run world, using generations old methods to make vaccine. The 'dose makes the poison' they hide behind. Now this is their world of Paracelsus who was an astrologer and would be over 500 years old if still alive. Modern science? Up to date Science? Science even? These toxicologist must follow the stars perhaps? No, they have only got as far as having their head in a cloud? No, I think they have their head firmly in the sand. The level of toxicology is low, base or zero.
Today toxicology moves onwards a little like the computer industry moves onwards. No more valves for them. No more dose for us, especially if mercurial.
Buzz words today are:
Thermodynamics
Potentiation
Sensitization (both chemical and genetic)
Mimicry
Bioaccumulation
Non lethal effects
Chemical Illness
Reversibility
Metabolic conversion
Impurity
Measurement
Elimination
Pharmokinetics rates of reactions
Catalytic effects (perhaps even autocatalytic effects - enzyme actions)
Conformation (chiral structures)
Et al

Paracelsus was a great man, but he didn't live in the 21st century or he would have had a few chosen words for those who misquote him today. His 'dose' referred more to food and drink than to deadly poison like mercury.

Most toxicologists don't take on board these ideas let alone the ignorant, humiliating, non scientist like myself.

So to descend into mercurial worlds, let's be as Mad as a Hatter and follow like Lewis Carroll into other worlds.

I will describe the new vaccine policy for 2007

FIVE SHOTS IN ONE

Our new vaccine policy guarantees you 100 per cent transparency.

Our regulators have now taken out bad mercury from vaccine - FACT. There is almost no bad mercury in vaccines today in 2007 except for one or two but we are not very numerate here. Hey, were regulators not mathematicians. This did take us nearly twenty years but this is the time scale of progress and do we get their in the end, promise; hope to die (you not me). We have your safety at heart, eventually, if the price is right and you are willing (to risk your life or health).
We do still have good mercury in vaccines, so lets say it's not there or you may be getting confused by now. There is NO mercury in our vaccines today, 2007, OK. We are regulators not scientists and you can't be clever at two different things, it isn't allowed in modern times. If mercury is only used to make the vaccine it can't technically be in the end product, can it? You do realise this don't you? Our manufacturing process necessitates the use of good mercury, but rest assured that the vaccine industry has been told to clean their act up and by 2020 they will have a much safer process without mercury good or bad. Absolute clarity of vision, promise.
But to show our willingness to be open and honest we would like to share the possible but unlikely problems of this good mercury in your vaccine that we are taking out at our very best top speed. We will not use the proper scientific words (We don't know them actually let alone begine to understand them, but don't tell SID)

SHOT 1
Engineering the vaccine
Imagine you have soldiers trying to attack a village across the top of a high mountain. It proves impenetrable. Along comes our mercury miner and drills a hole through this mountain actually descending so that it arrives on top of our enemy village. Hey presto ZONK.

SHOT 2
The almighty dollop
Our old mercury friend can pull you down but up you get. Damn. Along comes our friendly comrade OP who can jab you in the eyes. The thing is he is only two foot tall and it is difficult to jab a six foot man in the eyes. Damn.
Lets bring them together. First our chum, pool of mercury takes your legs away. And our equally friendly chum stabs you in the eyes. Hey presto ZONK.

SHOT 3
The Opportunist
The castle of your body is impregnable to our mercury friend. But wait someones going out to work. Mercury sneaks in. Hey pesto ZONK.

SHOT 4
The mimic
Mercury has got in but his damage is limited. I like stuffed heart, liver and kidneys but I want to get to the real 'heart' or brain of things here. This inner keep is impenetrable. But hey someone's taking in food. Hop onto the plate and hey presto we are right in the heart or control centre of the castle, this is great. Hey presto ZONK.

SHOT 4
Reinforcements
Can't do too much too quickly on our own but our mates outside will follow our trail. Soon this inner sanctum will be full of millions of mercurial friends. Hey presto ZONK.

We have many other tricks up our sleeve but we haven't been tumbled yet and we want to keep some secrets back or we might eventually be beaten. Cheers for now, your friendly mercurial messengers report from the innermost sanctums of life today death sooner than you think.

Byeee

Please contact the regional center near you, Mr. Fryer:
http://www.nimhe.csip.org.uk/support-through-regions/support-through-re…

Hi Yikes

Been there done that got the T shirt.

Everyone there has been neurotoxin poisoned!

Please discuss my science and where it is wrong.

I could say go and look at the graveyard in the small villages near Porton Down and the 100 per cent death rate to new born infants there.

You think its fine to kill children, blame the parents and cover up death from mercury and organophosphates in babies vaccines, night clothing and mattresses?

I know 4 people still in prison. They might want to take your advice but can't, they have been falsely accused and condemned to a life without hope. They are I know physically destroyed and will admit anything including killing children they loved.

I could give you the comment from a top judge in the UK if I could find it.

You get a good feeling from putting criminals behind bars but you get a better thrill when you put the innocent behind bars.

You are the of the same ilk possibly? Let me know.

John Fryer MSc BSc Advanced Analytical Chemist

Yikes

Does this man need the same place? Fritz Lorscheider that is. He is a great man unlike me according to your warped mind.

Take three minutes out of your life to learn something positive rather than totally negative.

Also learn to write more than 1 sentence of less than ten words.

Your mental age I place at six or is it sick. Mentally Sick that is.

I will check my developmental milestones which the people I fight for don't meet. But Sick seems about the right age for you.

They say it takes one to know one.

They are so right.

commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/

I love your name Yikes I almost feel sorry for you that your parents gave you that name. Has it been a hard life for you?

Do you want to trade insults with me or do something for God's sake to help our next generations????

The various Dirty Governments and Dirty Doctor's don't; I can tell you for certain.

I'm happy both ways. Looking forward to a science discussion though preferably.

John Fryer

Yikes

Trying to talk science with you.

Have you read the 16 million page report on BSE?

I have, well most of it, you learn a little honest science if you read what the man in the street is saying.

What do you make of this?

13. On 1/4/85, by which time 3 animals were dead, Mr Stent told me that the Mercury seed
dressing had been incorrectly applied to his maize crop. By this time a more typical
syndrome of nervous signs was becoming common in affected cows. Reference to the
text books suggested that Mercury poisoning was a likely diagnosis, but again
sampling was negative.

You can take a horse to water ...

John Fryer A serious toxic chemicals cause illness researcher as opposed to HM UK Science who can't read or deduce either.

Hi Yikes and all

Can't find reference to the UK high court judge who prefers to convict the innocent, but others seem to score a round 5 per cent success rate at this pastime:

With the power of scientific development such as DNA, countries are now having to grapple with the stark reality, and not merely a belief, that miscarriages of justice have occurred on a significant scale. The studies on the causes of wrongful convictions show patterns that are both chilling and disconcerting.

When it comes to mercury vaccines are safe, the doctor's manage a success rate of 5 per cent in my view. That's because we are dealing with doctor's expert evidence, and if they don't realise mercury is a brain destroying chemical they aren't going to get the right result very often. I might even be placing their success rate too high?

For a 75 year period in the UK no mother was convicted of child murder but then along came Meadow, MSBP and SBS and it was Open Season on mums who lost babies to SIDS.

John Fryer

Mercury kills at microgram levels.

Why is mercury so harmful?
Why is it still in vaccines?
When will it be banned?

It attracts all metal ions.

Toxic metals become lethal.
Neutral metals become toxic.
Good metals become useless.

Pesticides, viruses and bacteria are potentiated.

Cells are killed.
Cell contents spill out.
Swelling and bruising occurs.

The regulatory processes lose their regulatory action

Tremors or tics are seen first.
Neurodegenration follows quickly.
Early death is normal.

Mercury must attract an international and total ban.

Dude... you reacted to my suggestion with FIVE incoherent responses.

And just like before, absolutely no references to support your arguments (or more accurately, ravings).

This is a serious suggestion: get yourself some help, before you hurt yourself or someone else.

Autism is now diagnosed earlier than the age the vaccine was given which supposedly triggered it. A clever researcher used films of kids' 1st birthdays (a common practice of parents) and was able to describe behaviors of autism which had been previously missed. Those behaviors are now used to diagnose autism in kids under a year old. MMR is given at 15 months.

The diagnosis of autism was previously made when children became more socially interactive. That is when symptoms become more obvious to observers. And that was only by coincidence when MMRs were given. An association of autism with MMR vaccine was the first false association made.

Then Thimerosal was blamed for autism, and then combined vaccinations, and then post-partum shots. None of these supposed associations were ever observed. The whole premise was based on the observed association between timing of diagnosis of autism and timing of MMR vaccine. And that association was completely refuted when the birthday video study proved autism is present before MMRs are given.

And now most childhood vaccines are Thimerosal free and have been long enough to see if any change in rates of autism would occur. Autism rates have increased. Maybe we should put Thimerosal back in the vaccines!

Sadly, persisting in the superstitious condemnation of vaccines (because it is a superstition by definition) not only results in tragic cases of preventable disease, it also wastes resources pursuing the known false lead that vaccines have anything to do with autism instead of using those resources to look for the real cause.

Hi Yikes

Thanks for your comment.

I accept one hundred per cent your comments.

But it is not me that is important or my pride.

Look at the video of Fritz Lorscheider and then tell me that mercury in vaccines has not caused deaths and injuries.

HOW MERCURY PRODUCES BRAIN DAMAGE Video

www.metacafe.com/watch/538419/how_mercury_produces_brain_damage/

Perhaps we can put aside our personal feelings for each other and discuss Science?

John Fryer MSc BSc Chemist

Hi Skeptigirl

I have told Merck they have mercury in their vaccines.

They promise two days for a reply.

They have not replied.

I have written to their scientists and to their office.

You ask them if they have ANY mercury in today's Hep B shots.

I can't get a reply from them.

They will be getting a recorded delivery letter but this takes time.

I repeat mercury is still in vaccines at the same high levels and the same low levels.

It is being removed possibly and completely if my pressure works.

WHO says there is no lower limit for harm from mercury.

1 microgram is as bad as 12 micrograms - it takes longer thats all.

And if you note Hep B is genetically modified and may contain organophosphates but lets tackle one problem at a time please.

How do you do science if the cards are marked.

Mercury can only be out if its banned worldwide.

Why do states spend millions on legislation to ban mercury in 2007?

The Hep B is given at age 1 day.

Do you have videos in the womb?

John Fryer

Hi Skeptigirl

You say autism existed before the MMR. Then why vaccinate a child that will be known to react badly?
Surely it is best to wait and see what happens if you are not 200 per cent sure the vaccine will be good.
Where is the evidence that 3 live viruses are well tolerated by anyone?
Obviously for the vast majority they appear to be. But for thousands they are not well received.
Looking at the facts, very few parents put the connection of 1 out of 6 cases of some signs of neurological illness and the vaccines.
The work of Wakefield and the publicity after, enabled people to reflect and decide years after that the degeneration did soon occur after a vaccine.
OK, if you accept such a correlation is barmy then why do doctors often place correlation of a seizure event or sudden death as proof of SBS or MSBP?
If you use the logic one way then you can't prove SBS and MSBP on a temporal coincidence either.
And there are thousands of families that have been destroyed by such temporal associations being taken in courts of law as proof.
Worse in the UK all of these are in secret and closed courts. We never know who and what went on.
Its time to take stock and examine science and not Witch Finding.

John Fryer

Hi skeptigirl

Do you really believe what you say about thimerosal?

I hope it was a joke?

Mercury is the most toxic non radioactive element.

Do you know what that means?

Karen Wetterhahn had a one drop exposure on her gloves which failed to protect her.

She was fine for months until she had slight tics.

Months later she was dead.

The exposure was to the most deadly non radioactive element.

That is what we mean when we say mercury is the most toxic non radioactive metal.

We mean it has the capacity to kill.

If the association is not immediate the connection, correlation and causation are lost.

The time spent on this investigation was to try to prove Karen did not die from mercury toxicity.

The battle was fierce but science tells us today that she did die from the most toxic non radioactive metal.

Why then was the Government, Regulators and Chemical companies so insistent that she didn't die from the most toxic non radioactive element.

Follow the silence. Follow the protests. But keep to science.

John Fryer

Responses to a couple of randomly chosen ignorant things you've said:

Where is the evidence that 3 live viruses are well tolerated by anyone?

Here's a large epidemiologic study. Not only does it provide evidence that MMR is safe, but fails to find any evidence that thimerosal in vaccines is associated with autism or ASD.

Mercury is the most toxic non radioactive element.

Oh, please. I'm tired of hearing that old antivaccination canard.

Hi Orac

Thanks for the chance to write here!

3 live viruses are fine. No, I beg to differ.

They are not fine if the immune system reacts badly in the very few cases it does. Self destruction or autoimmune damage. Potentiation I have mentioned already. Why not one at time? One at a time means for some vaccines ten times less of the live virus than in the mix - FACT. Why repeat three times when adverse reactions occur because the vaccine has 100 per cent taken the first time with an over massive response? Disintegration of the body then occurs if not with the first over reaction.

Yes, If you read my reply I agree for most people that vaccines are very safe, even I dare say sufficiently safe to warrant their use if you are prepared to accept these casualities of war against disease?
But I am not talking of 99.99 per cent who sail through their vaccines and get life time protection.
We are talking of the 0.01 per cent who are brought to their knees by this vaccine and others. Possibly as we see after two or three other vaccines have sensitised them to this final shot. I know that they have been hurt by earlier vaccines and skeptigirl is right. Hence the need to study what is going on and to take action to prevent these few people even suffering from interventionist medicine.

I will respond in full in about a week but at the moment I have a particular case to study urgently.

Winston Churchill 1943 said: 'There is no finer investment for any community than putting milk into babies.'

In 2007 we dare to put organophosphates (same class as sarin) into vaccines.

In 2007 we dare to put mercury (same class as arsenic) into vaccines.

In 2007 we put genetically modified organisms (same class as eosinphil deaths to GMO'd tryptophan back a few years ago) into vaccines.

'Another fine mess' Laurel and Hardy 1930.

I could explain as well as you if not better why we need protection against lethal illness with vaccines.

But the issue is what do we do about the very very few who are harmed?

Do we do nothing. That would be better than destroying the families as well.

No, we refuse to accept that vaccines are anything less than 100.000 recurring per cent safe. This is blatantly UNTRUE.

We look at massive auto immune destruction that stops bone development and looks like fractures from the head to the toes. We look at blood pouring out from the spine to the cerebellum. We ignore heads swelling up to twice their size. Isn't he growing well!

We look at zero trauma outside.

Yes, its another case of SBS, we get at least one a month here in the USA in even our small practice.

In the UK hardly ever.

In France none at all.

WHY?

Clue OP, Toxic, GMO vac at 1 day?

Still don't know?

Open your mind. Which is what they do to these kids after nearly killing them with vaccines.

Kind Regards

John Fryer MSc BSc Researcher for more than ten years on VAERS

Hi Orac

Thanks again etc.

'The old canard.'

Well that's one way to try to excuse mercury the most toxic non radioactive element, but is it a good idea to give me a reference where you find arsenic mentioned as being harmful to us and of more immediate concern?

Arsenic is an element - right?

Mercury is an element - right?

You say what about less toxic elements they are more dangerous and worrying if put in vaccines?

I agree 100 per cent with you. Arsenic is dangerous and this should not be substituted for mercury in a 1 day old infants vaccine.

I agree entirely.

So what was it you are meaning about the 'old canard'?

I hope you aren't being personal about me?

An old war horse but not an old canard even if I do live in France

Have you reviewed the video of Fritz Lorscheider?

HOW MERCURY PRODUCES BRAIN DAMAGE Video

www.metacafe.com/watch/538419/how_mercury_produces_brain_damage/

Kind Regards

John Fryer just dismounting his old war horse for a day

I have just hear that PBS has declined to air the show.

Hi Joe

Its almost predictable that.

Like the sacking of Don Imus?

Everything black against Bush - nothing

One word about mercury - pick up your cards on the way out Don.

John Fryer

I may be wrong but I beleive the thermosol they add is a preservative allowing them to ship (5) dosages in 1 bottle
instead of individual vials. so I'm potentially risking my childs health and families well-being over a 3.5 cent vial.
Broken down the cost to manufacture each dosage is probably less then 25 cents.

In the first 2 years of a child life they recieve 24 free injections that the government pays $960 for.

Prior to North America shipping it's thermosol rich vaccines to china 7 years ago Autism was unheard of, they now have 1.8 million cases. According to a report (Vaccinating For Profit - From Cradle to Coffin)

John, Kudos!!!

just a question,

If we've been vaccinating everyone for the last 30 years or more, What are the chances that someone unprotected would catch a desease? and from whom? were all immune

Ah, the old "China did not have autism" ploy. Been there, done that... and it is false. A quick search on PubMed shows several papers on autism and China. Here is one from 1987, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&T… (in case you have trouble with arithmatic, that is more than 7 years ago).

Also for your second question "If we've been vaccinating everyone for the last 30 years or more, What are the chances that someone unprotected would catch a desease? and from whom? were all immune"...

1) Not "everyone" has been vaccinated. There is a percentage that cannot and/or will not be vaccinated.

2) Immunity from vaccines can wane. That is why it is recommended that folks get a tetanus booster every ten years.

3) With the reduction of vaccine coverage the probability of someone getting the actual disease goes up. That is why the UK and Japan are presently having a resurgence of measles. The unprotected get the disease from folks who have the disease. Just read this article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1055533.ece

4) Take note that the MMR vaccine has never every contained thimerosal. It was approved in the USA in 1971, and has been in use there and several other countries since then (except Japan, and the UK where it was approved in 1988).

Oh, and John is no longer a scientist, especially given his lack of using actual references (something that is required even for 12 year old participants in science fairs) and his rantings make absolutely no sense.

Hi HCN

How do I give references to my own 50 years of work in this area.

I am breaking new ground at times but the refs are there.

You can check what I say anytime.

You do your homework, I do mine.

MMR has never had thimerosal in it.

Tell it to the fairies.

We know it hasn't.

But this is exactly the point.

It has three viruses.

Live viruses.

Good for most people - 99.99 per cent.

The problem is for strong people who react too much to this vaccine. Anaphylactic shock, call it what you like.

The endotoxins react with the toxins.

On their own the infants are fine.

But the cumulative effect of safe insults is catastrophic.

Work on this goes back at least 30 years.

Dr Vos did this to find out why relatively harmless leakage of chemicals from Seveso caused so much devastation.

We call it today potentiation.

This is standard toxicological knowledge.

If you need references for this - then you should stay out of the debate and leave it to those who know the subject.

Dr Vos's work is in the report on Seveso and is not to my knowledge on the net.

DIOXIN toxicological and chemical aspects
Cattabeni Cavallaro and Galli.
Ch 16 is the work and research of Vos and Kater on immunosuppression.

He essentially gave innocuous amounts of toxin and endotoxin and found his experimental animals all died on him.

This is the problem with the Witches brews, multiple vaccines at once and ten times the amount needed for single vaccines.

Everyone reacts but babies don't complain.

They lie there quietly suffering and UNABLE to communicate.

I can prove this but this is it for today.

John Fryer MSc BSc Advanced Analytical Chemist

It's not that I'm so smart , it's just that I stay with problems longer

Hi HCN

I found some work done by the University of Kurume in the medline refs right next to the one you gave.

Minamato is an insignificant town in the same region.

Ring any bells?

John Fryer

Resurgence of measles UK

That's fear spreading.

One death to a teenager today who would have had his MMR jab more than 12 years ago and the vaccine obviously failed him.

The work of Wakefield recommends safe measles vaccines; ie. one virus only please and was ten years ago. Plenty of time for the wise to be wisely vaccinated if you please.

And in case you have trouble with arithmetic. It takes one to know one.

I can tell you that this death does not involve the research work of a great doctor at a later date to enable us to get safer vaccines.

The illnesses occured in the area of the biggest campaigner for vaccines in the UK. It is unlucky that the illness is hitting the area of the highest vaccination rate in the country.

And yes, the vaccine is worth having but make sure you have no reason to suspect for the slightest reason you might react to it and certainly not if you are not fully fit.

If this lad is a teenager wouldn't it be more beneficial if he got his vaccine a bit later in his life than 12 months?

The problem is the later you leave vaccines the more chance the recipient might tell his mum. This has hurt me.

They (doctors) gave childrens DTP to teenagers (malpractice) and nearly all of them were seriously ill. Again can't give the reference but check it out it's in my knowledge base and I have better things to do than educate you on this.

Vaccines to infants are a con. for the adverse effets go unnoticed most of the time. SIDS SBS and MSBP are the ploys to cover it up and add the insult of doctor inflicted harm to doctor inflicted harm again. 50 000 pounds blood money and some poor sucker sits in a cell for the rest of his life knowing they have been framed. Would you like a dose of that HCN?

Give it (vaccines) to those who can complain and do complain and you will find vaccine companies working a lot harder to make safe vaccines. At the moment give the poor mercury it will do them so much good. Did you hear the joke by Maurice Hilleman when he told his vaccine regulator friends he had given a deadly illness to his nations enemies a few years back in their vaccines?

Check out VAERS and ask why there are 10 times the complaints at age 1 but 600 times the complaints at age 7 for 1 death. Little babies don't complain they just get permanently ill or die.

At the moment it's one more unlucky death and one more for the cells.

That's 21st century science working for population control maybe?

A quick look at old vaccines tells us they were dangerous. Today the vaccines are 100 per cent safe.

They have been telling us that every ten years for the past 70. Its called propaganda. Wakefield is fighting for what I am fighting for, safe vaccines and cut the crap in the vaccines.

MERCURY has to be banned worldwide NOTHING LESS and NOTHING MORE.

John Fryer

Hi HCN

I would like to study this case but we have to put hypothesis.

Nits often requires treatment. This treatment may involve similar nerve destroying toxins. These will blow up your head anyday of the week.

There is no measles for these children. This to me is straight forward toxic insult.

It is beyond coincidence that two friends should get the same illness at the same time.

This is red flags for a common toxic insult.

The article says no measles. Measles is in the clear here.

For me toxicity from chemical treatment is indicated possibly.

We can just guess.

But an electric comb will kill nits without putting your brain under chemical attack.

I know of more than 1 000 who have suffered from these kinds of poisons.

You are fond of SARIN. Chemical nit treatment uses a close cousin and a member of the same family. Someone once bought me some of this stuff. It went straight in the bin.

Six pounds to knock out your brains. that's 21st century big pharma marketing at work again?

Yes this stuff doesn't just kill two at a time it kills 1 000's at a time.

Again some homework for you.

John Fryer

John Fryer,

Are you an analytical chemist?

Hi Pete

I have been.

To be honest I have spent more than 12 years on a crusade, but you find no one bothers if 100 000 kids die a year.

They don't mind splitting up the families and putting the mum, dad or carer in prison for life.

Today I found another victim for the prisons.

The parents said it had nothing to do with the vaccines.

You see the dad dropped the baby so he thinks he is to blame.

But after the first Hep B vaccine the head of this child blew up nearly 100 per cent.

No one bothered and the kid was too ill to moan.

Now she is dead and the dad has to pay for the vaccine harm.

Its called a dirty world, and tonight I have dirty thoughts for these dirty doctors who watch the same old signs of vaccine damage and shout from the tree tops:

It's another bastard murdering parent.

John Fryer MSc BSc Advanced Analytical Chemist

Originally posted by John Fryer:
"He fell out with me or the other way around.
Now, why would people fall out with sweet old me?"

Gee, as a complete stranger to you it seems fairly obvious - you give the impression of being obsessive and a bit scary with your 'I know the TRUTHâ¢ better than all those published and peer reviewed scientists and you just better believe me' ranting. I can see immediately why a laywer would not want to put you on the stand - you would instantly discredit their case!

For that matter your arguments are not reasoned or even argued reasonably; like you claim to have all the answers but apparently have no credible research to back up your claims. You appear to be someone with a very set agenda who has too much time on your hands, please, stop writing, get help, get another hobby.

Btw- If you did have any valid points re: mercury in vaccines then you most definitely have harmed your agenda by your approach... Just look at your posts above re: the Angela Cannings case, anyone coming across the issue from only your posts would probably see that you think she was innocent and assume she really was guilty (For the record she was found innocent on appeal and the original verdict was the result of faulty logic by a crappy expert witness - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Cannings), just saying you ain't even helping the causes you think you are.