This is your body on religion

That's interesting, but not as interesting as the demise of the heretic Arius, who died on the crapper with what Socrates Scholasticus described as "a violent relaxation of the bowels." Needless to say, his Christian opponents said it was God's will.

I'm curious about the details of this study. Is it possible that metazoan intestinal parasite communities could survive outside of their hosts for centuries in soil that was once used as a latrine?

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"There is a kind of metaphor here, though--this is what you get when you seek religious purity."

WOSIJMU: "If you have a faulty model of reality in your head, you get right answers only by accident."

These guys were in the majority of those who got wrong answers. You kinda have to forgive them for living in a time when they had no science.

But then again, if you think as I do that religion was the prime force holding back the development of science, probably for thousands of years, they may have got what they deserved.

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Way to generalize, you endlessly clueless dingbat.

And while it is generally accepted that the Essenes were the authors of the Dead Sea scrolls, there are some scholars that beg to differ. This is mentioned at the exhibit of the scrolls at the Pacific Science Center in Seattle. . .what those differing opinions were escape me in my weariness just now. . .said weariness not at all lessened by your increasingly strident foolishness.

It's also worth noting that the Essences were religious extremists, not typical of the Jewish community as a whole or even the observant Jews of the period. To argue from this case study to a claim about all religion would be like arguing from a monomanic academic to the psychology of all academics.

OK, maybe that's not such a good analogy, but you know what I mean...

The Essenes were indeed extremists, but like all such people, they neither origniated nor existed in a vacuum. Their nutty practices are in most cases just explicit enactments of the underlying ideological aspects of the parent religion. It's true that the overriding concern with ritual purity increases dramatically as one moves towards the extreme ends of the socio-religious spectrum -- towards the new-age crystal-wavers no less so than the crypto-fascist purity-ball dads -- but the basis for that concern is in absolutely no way absent from their religious substrates.

It just shows that there's a world of difference between ritual purity and plain old cleanliness. When I was in grad school (in another geological era) I had a roommate who was an Orthodox Jew, and went with him one day to a kosher butcher's for meat. In a showcase of chopped beef, there was something that looked like a fat gray worm. Looking closer, I realized that it was a cigarette ash! Right in plain view! I complained to my friend, who said, "Well, it's vegetable matter, no harm."

your increasingly strident foolishness

Uh, hoody ... there's a dark pot in your mirror.

This "metaphor" may not be PZ's most rigid analytical claim ... but at least he's capable of recognizing that.

Purity -- I can't help but also see a metaphorical link with recent suspicions that overuse of antibacterial soaps may adversely affect childrens' immune symptom development (e.g. studies of asthma in farm children) and foster the selection of resistant strains.

"Some people might laugh, but it is terribly sad," he said. "They were so dedicated and had such a strenuous lifestyle, but they were probably lowering their life expectancy and ruining their health in an effort to do what is right."

Perhaps it is tragic, but not as tragic as religious zealots who are 'lowering life expectancy' of people in faraway countries.

wow first spam post i've ever seen!

... uhh... kill it? with fire?

please...

the demise of the heretic Arius, who died on the crapper

Elvis has been alive for eternity.

amph wrote:

Perhaps it is tragic, but not as tragic as religious zealots who are 'lowering life expectancy' of people in faraway countries.

You mean "religious zealots" like these?

God told me to invade Iraq, Bush tells Palestinian ministers

Much closer to home, in the Strib: Where mysticism meets medicine

John Wilkins, atheist in denial said:

It's also worth noting that the Essences were religious extremists, not typical of the Jewish community as a whole or even the observant Jews of the period. To argue from this case study to a claim about all religion would be like arguing from a monomanic academic to the psychology of all academics.

The point is valid that religious revelation is no better than making **** up as a way of gaining accurate knowledge about the world. If someone has given up 90% of their irrationalism, then good for them on the 90%, but it does not make the remaining 10% rational, good or valid.

And while it is generally accepted that the Essenes were the authors of the Dead Sea scrolls, there are some scholars that beg to differ.

From the article:

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The discovery of the unique toilet area provides further evidence linking the scrolls to Qumran -- an association that has recently been called into question by a small but vociferous group of archeologists who have argued that the settlement was a pottery factory, a country villa or a Roman fortress, but not a monastery.
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The Dead Sea Scrolls, the revisionists claim, were actually hidden in the caves of Qumran by Jews fleeing the devastation of Jerusalem during the Roman suppression beginning in AD 66. The majority of archeologists, in contrast, argue that the scrolls were copies produced by a small sect, generally called the Essenes, who lived at Qumran.
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Because the location of the latrine was specified in two of the most important scrolls found at the site, its discovery provides strong evidence associating the settlement with the scrolls, Tabor said.
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...The Essenes are one of very few ancient groups whose toilet practices were documented. The 1st century Jewish historian Josephus noted that members of the group normally dug holes and buried their waste outside the city. The group was not allowed to defecate on the Sabbath, he said, because its members were prohibited from leaving the city...

This reminds me of something

It just shows that there's a world of difference between ritual purity and plain old cleanliness. When I was in grad school (in another geological era) I had a roommate who was an Orthodox Jew, and went with him one day to a kosher butcher's for meat. In a showcase of chopped beef, there was something that looked like a fat gray worm. Looking closer, I realized that it was a cigarette ash! Right in plain view! I complained to my friend, who said, "Well, it's vegetable matter, no harm."

Posted by: Jonathan Lubin | November 15, 2006 01:50 AM

Cigarette ash, fresh off the cigarette, is probably sterile.

As to Arius, there is no hard evidence for it, but it is possible that he was poisoned. He denied that Jesus and God were of the same substance, and hence made many enemies among the faithful. Of course, religious people don't kill their opponents, so it must have been a parasite after all.

But one also has to look at the bright sight. All this variance makes a wonderful playground for biological studies. The atom bombs certainly did as much good as harm in that at least the countless deaths weren`t futile but accumulated to the knowledge of coming generations.

I would be utterly interested in MHC studies and other immune system related studies on a molecular biological scale of the survivors. And while i am at it, i have to point out if such folks are out there what else is amongst our 6 billion brethren. All we need is more scientists!! - for those folk`s own good, so that they actually contribute something to society and the species at large.

Steve -- between 'sterile' and 'something one wants in the hamburger' there is quite a large gulf.

jrochest wrote:

Steve -- between 'sterile' and 'something one wants in the hamburger' there is quite a large gulf.

For example, I doubt many germs would be growing on pure radium.

Just goes to show the damage God did when he neglected to mention germs when He inspired the writers of the Bible.

Imagine how many people would have been saved if he'd mentioned that part of His creation.

from the article:

Eventually, Tabor and Joe E. Zias of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, an expert on ancient latrines...

Holy shit... (no pun intended). Maybe it's just my limited worldview, but how does one get into a field like that? Oh well, I guess somebody has to be an expert...