We're seeing an ugly form of intolerance creeping into the western states, carried with slavic evangelicals who hate homosexuals.
A growing and ferocious anti-gay movement in the Sacramento Valley is centered among Russian- and Ukrainian-speaking immigrants. Many of them are members of an international extremist anti-gay movement whose adherents call themselves the Watchmen on the Walls. In Latvia, the Watchmen are popular among Christian fundamentalists and ethnic Russians, and are known for presiding over anti-gay rallies where gays and lesbians are pelted with bags of excrement. In the Western U.S., the Watchmen have a following among Russian-speaking evangelicals from the former Soviet Union. Members are increasingly active in several cities long known as gay-friendly enclaves, including Sacramento, Seattle and Portland, Ore.
Vlad Kusakin, the host of a Russian-language anti-gay radio show in Sacramento and the publisher of a Russian-language newspaper in Seattle, told The Seattle Times in January that God has "made an injection" of high numbers of anti-gay Slavic evangelicals into traditionally liberal West Coast cities. "In those places where the disease is progressing, God made a divine penicillin," Kusakin said.
That's a mild example of their rhetoric. Under the cloak of their odious religious beliefs, these holy thugs are on a hate-crusade against gays, and they've already killed at least one person, Satender Singh, for the 'crime' of not being heterosexual enough.
The Box Turtle Bulletin and Bartholomew's Notes on Religion have more on these rather nasty immigrants … and their American enablers.
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Please please tell me that these people haven't modeled themselves after THE The Watchmen.
Damn those atheist commies ... they sure have caught on to the religious rhetoric faster than one might expect ;-)
Seriously, I find such perversions of supposedly divine proclamations sickening :-(
sigh ... if only there were a god ;-)
I have always believed in the rule of law but where do you draw the line at allowing such people to even exist. I have to admit that after reading this I have the urge to pick up a baseball bat and wade into a group of these people swinging really hard. I'm not suggesting doing this but am I the only person who feels this way? I mean how the fuck do you confront people like this?
I mean how the fuck do you confront people like this?
with the same technique that worked against the KKK:
public ridicule.
...and legal action, as available.
Russian-language anti-gay radio show
If that gets cancelled, like 9 people might be upset.
Chances are they are antisemitic as well. Israel has a new problem with Russian immigrants. Some of them have joined neo-Nazi gangs. You would think neo-Nazis would want to live somewhere else than Israel.
As to dealing with them. Enforce the existing laws. Assault and attempted assault are crimes. So is harrassment and threats of violence. Deport the lawbreaking ones who don't have citizenship, which is also a legal remedy for undesirable aliens on US territory. They should get the message soon enough.
Neo-Nazism has taken root in the very nation forged from the ashes of the Holocaust.
mind blowingly ironic on the surface, and yet a good example of the fact that stupidity and ignorance can take root anywhere, and not just in the form of neo-naziism.
It wouldn't surprise me to find that there are those that could make a good case for the current political climate in Israel actually encouraging the formation of exactly the kind of mindsets that leads to neo-naziism, strange as that might sound.
I agree with the previous posts here on how to deal with these folk. Here in Saint Paul a half dozen years plus ago the KKK asked for and were granted the right to assemble near the capital. There was a big cry about how they shouldn't be allowed to go there, but that right to peacable assemble is in the 1st ammendment. If I remember correctly, they had a turn out of about 20 people. The counter protest across the street was in the low thousands and so loud that the white-power idiots could barely hear themselves. Still, they got to use their constitutional rights. As did evreyone else. When these folk break the law though...hammer em.
Okay, fine. Say you think that homosexuality is a sin and that God (who supposedly made the universe, which also means everything in it, which also means that He made gays) sends the homos to hell. Fine.
What I don't understand, and I mean, REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND, is why those that think gays will spend an eternity being worse than miserable also need some extra misery while they're alive.
What is the seed of their hatred? Did gays steal their jobs? That awesome hair salon position? That fabulous fashion design post? Actually, those are just stereotypes--there are gay people in all sorts of jobs that are necessary for the economy.
I suppose, if they think that homosexuality is a communicable disease, perhaps then their attitude of persecution and eradication might make sense to me, at least on a purely unthinking Dark Ages mob sort of way.
I just don't get it. I just don't get it.
The only thing that I can comprehend from this is that some people seem to have a *need* to hate. They need to identify individuals outside their own group, maybe to foster better community within the group. I suppose, for some groups, their stimulating rallying cry is, "Let's kill the gays!" Maybe because they're the only thing that they could really agree on. Not, "Let's eliminate poverty!", or, "Let's end the war in Iraq!", or, "Let's stop global warming!"
If taking down a group of people that has nothing to do with their actual existence is their main priority (seriously, everyone just imagine how effective a Gay Army would be), then their lives must be so meaningless that they would only engender pity if they were not so stupid and dangerous.
"I have always believed in the rule of law but where do you draw the line at allowing such people to even exist. I have to admit that after reading this I have the urge to pick up a baseball bat and wade into a group of these people swinging really hard..."
Funny, they could have been saything the exact same thing about gays.
Very similar problem in jamica but even more wide-spread. I agree with how to deal with them. legal as much as possible but Humour above all. get the whole world laughing at their pathetic beliefs. It doesnt help that the fundies, in government and out, share a common obsession.
These guys must have their own bathroom stall tapping moments tho aka larry craig. lets catch them at it!
I just don't get it. I just don't get it.
I think that's probably a good thing.
frankly, I'm reasonably sure I don't want to know what their reasoning is, even though I might be horrifically fascinated by the twists of logic that produce it.
This has nothing to do with Religion. Im no fan of Pushy Christians, although I can tolerate those that keep their faith to themsleves. I'm a non-believer by the way.
No...this is aggressive Eastern European males at work. I see them all the time here in the Chicago area. A lot of them think they are smarter than everyone else, and they have a chip on their shoulders. They have something to prove. They are aggressive in all facets of life....work....business...drinking....driving. You name it.
I dont think it's fair to play the religion angle up here. These are just boorish, dumb, brutish.....human beings.
These are just boorish, dumb, brutish.....human beings.
morlocks?
#14,
That sounds to me somewhat akin to the way american culture is perceived in many other places.
Just saying.
As others here have already noted, scorn and ridicule are the only truly effective weapons we can employ when countering the evil of religion in all of its forms. Maybe that sounds overly dramatic, but I can't think of another word to describe these animals. And you can be sure the next time one of these goons kills someone else, and the appropriate outrage is heard, someone in the more moderate religious community will say "But you can't blame all of religion for this", or some such idiocy. Yes, you can. Religion allows people to indulge in their less-than-admirable urges because they think its what god wants.
An anti-gay radio show is okay, but "Suck it, Jesus" is a hate crime?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Well, one thing is that many of these guys are gay themselves and trying not to be, that is why they beat so desperately and pathetically on gays - look Craig, Look Haggard; two of the biggest anti-gay guys you can imagine. Yes humor and PITY, and let them know how well known it is that all men that really hate gays and come on tough do so because they are gay underneath, that should all help...
The fact that this is happening in my hometown of Sac is irritating. Just when you leave a place because you think it'll be ok, and move to a place that might need more help, they come in and flank you.
On another note, I always enjoy the studies that show homophobic men show strong indications of homosexuality. It's always a joy to point to one of these bigots and flash a study that suggests that they're just afraid to come out.
Inky #10: I just don't get it. I just don't get it. You're missing the part where they're afraid that somehow they might be gay, and that being tolerant of gays may indicate that to others. Really, I think it's a knee-jerk fear of buttsex and they want to make sure EVERYONE KNOWS THEY DON'T WANT IT (not even a little bit). They're weird, twisted, juvenile, ignorant, hateful little wankers. Same as the KKK, just projecting onto a different set of victims.
well, to be fair, I rather think that if Griffin had gone on a gay-bashing spree instead during her acceptance speech, that too would have gotten the axe.
I rather think that if Griffin had gone on a gay-bashing spree instead during her acceptance speech, that too would have gotten the axe.
You think "Suck it Jesus" constitutes a "Christian-bashing spree"?
Just as I'm about to move out to Oregon, too. I thought I was leaving this shit behind in Georgia? What the fuck is wrong with this country?
You think "Suck it Jesus" constitutes a "Christian-bashing spree"?
huh?
you're making an invalid comparison; one does not equate to the other.
no more than griffin's color commentary represents a "hate crime", for that matter.
so, did you actually have a point?
Raven,
Doesn't look like most of them were neo-Nazis before they got there, though. They're joining the gangs in large part because they don't like life in Israel.
When you get a green card in the U.S., they ask you a short list of set questions to determine if you are fit to reside here. One of the questions is:
Have you ever engaged in genocide, or otherwise ordered, incited, assisted or otherwise participated in the killing of any person because of race, religion, nationality, ethnic origin or political opinion?
I would like to see this expanded to include not just genocide/killing but persecution or hate-speech of any kind, and to add sexual orientation to the list, in fact to make the list open ended to include really any basic human trait. Then I would like to see it enforced not only at point of entry and green card interview, but throughout the stay of the immigrant in the country. We cannot and should not tolerate even a modicum of persecution in the world, let alone in our own country where we ought to have the power to directly prevent it.
With your sights centered on their chest. If I were gay and lived in an area where this group is active, I'd give serious thought to acquiring a concealed carry license. A friend of mine did that when he acquired his very own stalker. The stalker is someone who is seriously delusional, and who has been the subject of FBI investigation for threats to several people. You cannot reason with those who are irrational.
Of course, anyone thinking of taking this advice should first learn how to safely handle and shoot a pistol. ;-)
One thing you can do right now is to write your U.S. representatives and senators in support of the current version of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which has passed both House and Senate but is not yet law.
"Rumblings are growing louder that House Democratic leaders are considering removing non-discrimination provisions covering transgender persons from the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA).
"Some Democrats are getting nervous that ENDA may not pass if transgender-inclusive language is part of the bill. This would mean that, even if the bill were to pass and become law, it would still be legal in the vast majority of states, including Texas, to fire someone from their job simply because of their gender identity and/or expression."
We need stronger laws against discrimination. We need for gay-directed violence to be a hate crime. You can subscribe to the Human Rights Campaign at www.hrc.org to get email alerts and make a contribution.
The evangelistic Ukrainian immigrant community is growing in northern California and we see many Russian speakers in our colleges. I noticed one of my students a few years ago had the same last name as a loud-mouthed bigot who was quoted a few times in regional news media. I never asked the boy whether the noisy bigot was his father, uncle, or brother, but it seemed likely it was a relative. My student was a shy, quiet kid who sat in the back of the classroom. He struck me as a bit effeminate, too. He could very well be going through hell on earth in a vociferously homophobic family. I hope he's okay. Of course, maybe he's going to rallies with the folks and helping them wave "God Hates Fags" signs. Don't know, but it's creepy.
Y'know, I am one of the few ex-Soviet atheists I know anymore. the majority of people I hung out when I first came here are now ranging from Orthodox Jews to Seventh-Day Adventists with all kinds of crap in between. I hardly ever associate with American Russians--and it is not a racist/ethnically elitist attitude, since I have no problem with many Russian Russians...
But seriously, here in Portland, buying a bag of pelmeni in a local Russian grocery store is likely to expose you to a sermon--an attempt to convert you--or to sell you a copy of Новый завет. And this is the crowd that has been vocal in their support of marriage amendments/anti-gay legislation--all in the name of their newfound "freedom".
For more on the Singh case, read here.
I don't understand beating a person to death, or what makes it manslaughter instead of murder.
Not related to this case, there's now an argument brewing in Italy over the burka and niqab. The prefect in Treviso, near Venice, has ruled that women who want to wear the burka (and by extension, the niqab) could do so, provided they reveal their features if asked to do so for the purposes of identification.
Apparently in 1975 a law was passed banning the wearing of masks in public, at least during demostrations and protests, as an anti-terrorism measure. Up to now that law has also been assumed to apply to the burka and niqab.
This ruling has gotten the Italian nutters panties in a twist:
Reporting from Latvia: it's true, the movement exists, is closely related to religion, well-funded and not limited to Russians. Someone please nuke us.
BK is right. This has not as much to do with religion as with a certain "backwardness" of upbringing and of the societies in which they are/were raised.
Here in germany an official study showed a very large percentage of homophobia in immigrant populations too, especially from eastern europe, russia and turkey.
Heard the same bullshit from otherwise quite nice colleagues from Marocco and Gabun.
Well... as to the question how to deal with the "god given penicilin"? The best answer might be to just declare "Sorry, we're allergic, goodbye."
> the current political climate in Israel actually
> encouraging the formation of exactly the kind of
> mindsets that leads to neo-naziism,
There are similar problems in almost every country with a large community of Russian immigrants, so the 'current political climate in Israel' is probably not to blame. The point seems to be that many Russian teens felt forced to leave Russia against their own wills when their parents emigrated, and are angry and frustrated as a result. Add to this the traditional Russian antisemitism, and the instinctive tribalism of immigrant youths in a foreign country. Of course these are only explanations, not justifications. Nothing can excuse or justify naziism, in Israel or in any other place in the world.
What the fuck is wrong with this country?
You have a greedy, violent, evangelical nutcase in power. For the second term. And nobody is doing anything about it.
There's a lot of this in E. Europe - the commies just suppressd it, and now it's escaped.
Another way, if they start throwing their weight around, is to refer to them as: "dummkopf Untermenschen" - stupid subhumans ....
They really won't like that
You have a greedy, violent, evangelical nutcase in power. For the second term. And nobody is doing anything about it.
that's a symptom, not the disease.
that's a symptom, not the disease.
Surely it's become both?
Re #11 Jackal, The difference, moron, is that I explicitly stated that this was a *feeling* that I had, that I had no intention of acting on it. Furthermore these nice folks actually do go out and kill people, whereas I was just ranting on a blog. A rather significant difference, wouldn't you say. I notice you carefully left out my clarification about *not* considering it OK to act on my feelings. One last thing anyone who doesn't feel the way I do about this is just not angry enough at these SOBs and that is rather worrisome IMHO!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes
The obsession with 'purity' and 'hygiene' in the 'disease' and 'penicillin' comments.
The use of a now-discredited book detailing a supposed conspiracy by the hated group with the 'Pink Swastika'.
Could they be any more obvious that the gay-hate is just a new stand-in for the classic anti-semitism that was so popular in Eastern Europe for centuries?
If you spend your time hating someone else, you don't have to look at yourself. Simple as that.
Sadly, the USA is known the world over as a safe haven for vociferous religious crazies, a place they can thrive, where normals dare not obstruct them. The Bushistas have not only handed tax money to 'faith-based' organizations, they have bragged about it on the world stage.
Inky the fear is that they will spread their evil ways to others and damn those additional people to hell also. Since hell is so very bad, far worse than any earthly punishment, it justifies anything we can accomplish in the material world. Note this also applies to atheists.
Not only that but I heard that during the inquisition they would torture people in order to get a confession because that was the first stage towards salvation. If they confess but don't repent of course you burn them from the above reason. But what if they are honestly repentant. Well in that case the burning has sent them to heaven and that's a good deed also.
Burning such a person doesn't count as murder because the bible calls for stoning on lesser offenses like not obeying your mom and pop. Certainly worshiping Satan counts as disobeying ones parents.
Now do you get it?
I was discussing Islam with a Muslim just the other week and they were claiming how peaceful Islam is. I argued that cutting hands off was disproportionate punishment. Their response was that it was perfectly fine because those wrongly convicted and punished were guaranteed a place in heaven. So you see no problem.
I say big problem because this is mainstream current day thinking in the Muslim world. They are still literally in the witch burning phase. I see no hope of them getting out of it either since their prop het unlike the Christian one used to personally see to this kind of behavior.
Mohammad would lop off not only hands and feet, but also heads, and once had a fire set on the chest of a Jew to extract info on the whereabouts of the Jewish tribes valuables.
Oh, those DAMN immigrants!
And SLAVS no less!!!
What kind of country is this?
Of course you 'get it'. The more outsiders there are, the easier it becomes to define insiders. If there weren't any people whose actions you could condemn and solemnly declare that you don't understand, you'd have to create them.
Same thing with Israel - the only thing holding the society together at this point is predator pressure.
Those pesky immigrants...
How long will it take Bush to propose building a wall between the US and Russia?
Oh wait, he's not gonna do that ... he too is a homophobe.
Couldn't this kind of activity be considered terrorism? In my opinion The Watchmen ought to be on the list of terrorist organizations.
...then again that would imply that there are some other groups with anti-gay rhetoric here in the US that should also be included on the list. Something I would like to see happen, but is not likely to occur.
Вздыхаю...
Soviet repression of religion certainly didn't stamp it out. I believe that forcing religion underground fosters fundamentalism. The Soviet Union as a nation of atheists is and always was an illusion, a propaganda boon for the McCarthyists and other Cold War warriors who took the opportunity to claim the USA for the Christian God. (Oh, sorry - Judeo-Christian.) How ironic that the American reaction to Soviet nominal godlessness contributed, in large part, to nurturing of an environment so richly favorable to the germination and growth of pernicious weeds like these.
Bloody Hell^WJudeo-Christian-reference-to-bad-place ...
I live in Sacramento. I've seen the influx of Eastern European immigrants (who have generally expanded the cultural diversity of the area), but this one passed completely below my radar.
Thanks for the heads-up.
I wonder if any of the evangelical religious groups will speak out against him.
Probably not.
I never thought I'd get to say this, but...
"Go back to Russia!"
Surely you mean, "Go back to Russia if your name isn't Шарапова!"
Here is a very in depth article on the topic from the Southern Poverty Law Center. Shows some connections with Pat Robertson, the AFA, etc.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?pid=1422
"I mean how the fuck do you confront people like this?"
www.pinkpistols.org
The Pink Pistols are a gay gun rights organization in the United States and Canada. Their mottos are "Armed gays don't get bashed" and "Pick on someone your own caliber."
The Pink Pistols are a gay gun rights organization in the United States and Canada. Their mottos are "Armed gays don't get bashed" and "Pick on someone your own caliber."
Indeed, Sacramento's gays may well have to start arming themselves. (William Burroughs used to speak amusingly about this kind of thing.)
It's ironic that this is possible partly because of the staunch opposition to gun control by the Christian Right.
Who'd have thought that American citizens would have to take up arms against Russians after all? :-(
What is this thing with conservative Christians and hating on gays - is it like catnip for morons, or what? If these guys hold the Bible literally, there are an awful lot of things to hate, and gays are fairly low on the list (and, of course assuming they only look at the Old Testament, in which case they'd be Jewish) - the highest item would seem to be the treatment of the poor and abandoned, and mysteriously enough, these troglodytes seem silent on that score. Of course, maybe they're just bored, and would like gays to have as sad and bereft a life as they do.
They bear the wholemarks of East European mobsters, noted for their excessive viciousness, sadism and violence. Probably Russian mafia trying to whitewash itself through religion and make a new start.
Dear Mr. Kusakin,
When you are so loudly anti-gay as to already invite speculation that you protest a bit too much, you might want to avoid the injection metaphor. It doesn't help your case.
I mean, if I understand your metaphor correctly, you seem to be saying that what all these gay communities need is for you and those who think like you to inject yourselves into them, loudly, often, and possibly a bit roughly if that's what it takes to deliver God's love into their deepest recesses.
Gotcha. Good luck with that.
WTFWJD wrote:
Hammer hits nail squarely.
As mentioned earlier, this administration is a symptom of a disease. But, they provide a virulent feedback system for the disease.
MikeM "I don't understand beating a person to death, or what makes it manslaughter instead of murder."
In the first place, he wasn't beaten to death. He was punched once in the face and then the attackers ran away. It was an assualt, not an attempted killing. Unfortunately, he fell and hit his head on the sidewalk in such a way that he later died in the hospital, upping the assualt to manslaughter. I'm not a lawer but, when you kill someone, the charge is largely determined by what's going through your mind. No one expects to kill someone with a single blow, so its not murder.
A large part of this problem is the influx of American missionaries to Ukraine (and, I assume, Russia) in the post-Soviet era. Being a member of a "repressed" religion made it much easier to immigrate to the USA in the 90s, and many joined these evangelical cults for that reason. They've also proliferated throughout Ukraine, partly because of the aid these groups offer to poor people, and partly as a panacea to the social unrest that came after the fall of ht USSR and independence.
I, personally, find these people (the missionaries) objectionable. Ukraine has a long history of orthodox Christianity, a more personal and mystical religion. Quite frankly, if these do-gooders are so insistent on saving souls, why can't they go and bother Buddhists or Muslims instead?
It's these Americans who are transferring their rabid anti-gay activist proclivities to their Ukrainian converts. Ukrainians have never been that concerned about the gay. Cross-dressing, Benny Hill style, has always been a prominent part of Ukrainian humor (consider Verka Serduchka, this year's Ukrainian entry to Eurovision). A very out gay friend of mine spends a lot of time there; although not many Ukrainian gays are out, he says, he finds that a bit of vodka lures them out of the closet.
And I must add that, in my travels in Ukraine, I've come across some anti-semitism (usually hidden or subtle) but not much active anti-gay activity. There is not much understanding of homosexuality (much as in our society twenty years ago), and society there is just beginning to accept it, but there are no Fred Phelps crazies out and about. It really seems to me a bad habit that these evangelicals have picked up from their American brothers.
Can't do it. The FBI and National Guard are way too busy keeping an eye on those awful peace groups.
Plus, where would the wall be, in the middle of the Bering Strait?
Not that I'd put it past him, necessarily...
The National Guard is monitoring 'peace groups?' Oh fucking please.
Interesting comment by Dr. Luba, and her assessment makes sense to me. (I don't think Ruslana has ever been mistaken for a man, though. Heh.)
My Ukrainian grandfather was, in my opinion and based on my limited impression of his background and earlier life, remarkably unbiased. His attitude about homosexuality was, at worst, bemusement, and I never heard him speak ill of a Jew or Catholic. Having lived through the Holodomor and Nazi occupation may have left him with few biases against his fellow human beings (with the possible exception of the Nazis and their collaborators, and the Soviet oppressors of his youth.)
I regret that he passed away before I was old enough to really know what questions I might want to ask him.
Mohammad would lop off not only hands and feet, but also heads, and once had a fire set on the chest of a Jew to extract info on the whereabouts of the Jewish tribes valuables.
I wonder if that's what "Left Behind Games" had in mind for the expansion pack for "Eternal Forces"?
:P
Oh, they do all right--have you heard of "rice Christians"?.
Back in the days of the Cambodian refugee camps in Thailand, my Cambodian-language courses were eaten up with missionaries on their way to the camps. The Indonesian, Burmese, and Vietnamese courses--not so much. One of my teachers habitually referred to them as "vultures", because of the way they flocked to the suffering in the camps.
I wouldn't have had any quarrel with them if they'd just gone to help, but to make conversion a condition for assistance is appalling. Hence the term, "rice Christian", for people who converted because they got the message--either explicitly or tacitly--that they had to convert in order to get help.
Even now, when I use the language in Seattle, I'm occasionally mistaken by strangers for a missionary, because their experience is that, for the most part, people learned their language only to try to proselytize them. Usually a few minutes' conversation disabuses them of that notion, though. :)
The National Guard is monitoring 'peace groups?' Oh fucking please.
yeah! The NG would never do that!
That's the job of the FBI.
The CA National Guard monitored a peace protest here in Sacramento. It was a bit of a story for a little while around here. At first they denied it but they eventually copped to it. No valid reasons given, of course.
Plus, where would the wall be, in the middle of the Bering Strait?
Not that I'd put it past him, necessarily...
why do that when he could build a wall between the US and Canada?
...just as soon as the one between the US and Mexico is finished.
*sigh*
lol! Yeah, 'cause that one through Berlin worked so well...
Sorry, I should have given a reference about the National Guard thing: http://www.davisenterprise.com/articles/2005/06/27/news/187new1.txt
gees, you'd think Bush would have shipped so many of the NG off to Iraq, that there wouldn't be enough left to waste on the control and monitoring of peace groups.
why is it starting to look more and more like the 60's around here?
well, all the negative aspects, anyway.
how much more will the sheep take, I wonder?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20050706-1652-ca-guardintellig…
California National Guard officials defended the unit.
"We do not spy on people," Hart said. "Never have, never will."
Now why do I have doubts about his 'truthiness'...
For more on the Singh case, read here.
I don't understand beating a person to death, or what makes it manslaughter instead of murder.
Um, did you even read your own link? There was no apparent intent to kill or do serious harm (more serious than what follows from being punched in the face).
I say big problem because this is mainstream current day thinking in the Muslim world.
No it isn't.
They are still literally in the witch burning phase.
That's absurd on more than one level.
Mohammad would lop off not only hands and feet, but also heads, and once had a fire set on the chest of a Jew to extract info on the whereabouts of the Jewish tribes valuables.
Can you document that? In any case, what Mohammed would do has no bearing on anything -- except in the minds of anti-Islamic bigots.
"Oh, they do all right--have you heard of "rice Christians"?."
Yes, I have, and I admit I was being a bit facetious in my original post. These sorts always go after the easy targets--other Christians, which I've never considered a true conversion. It's more akin to getting someone to change their brand of toothpaste.
Many do proselytize Buddhists, who are fairly peaceful and usually just ignore them (or stay converted as long as the rice lasts); fewer still go after Muslims, who are more likely to kill them than convert. (Many countries, Muslim and Hindu, have anti-conversion laws.)
Interestingly, in today's Kyiv Post there was an Op/Ed piece about the "Embassy of God", one of these new evangelical churches, which led an anti-gay protest in Kyiv. There were 2000 participants. The centerpiece of the march was "a call for legislation to charge with administrative responsibility and penalize those 'who propagandize homosexuality.'" The paper disapproved, saying "How they choose to determine who might be guilty of "propagandizing" homosexuality is unclear. But what is clear is that this type of intolerance has no place in a modern European country. We hope that the Posolstvo Bozhe will spend its time and resources focusing on its parishioners rather than trying to spread intolerance and asking the government to start looking into our bedrooms."
Great--it's not enough that these damn evangelists are poisoning civic discourse in America, they are exporting it as well.
Вздыхаю...
Soviet repression of religion certainly didn't stamp it out. I believe that forcing religion underground fosters fundamentalism. The Soviet Union as a nation of atheists is and always was an illusion, a propaganda boon for the McCarthyists and other Cold War warriors who took the opportunity to claim the USA for the Christian God. (Oh, sorry - Judeo-Christian.) How ironic that the American reaction to Soviet nominal godlessness contributed, in large part, to nurturing of an environment so richly favorable to the germination and growth of pernicious weeds like these.