Speaking of bad teaching and schools that screw up under community pressure, it looks like we have an ugly story here in Morris. Last week, the student at the Morris Area High School were released from classes (you know, those sessions where they are supposed to learn something) to listen to some motivational speaker babbling about healthy lifestyles and abstinence, and apparently telling them that Madonna was a lesbian, among other tidbits. I've only heard third-hand about the event itself — Skatje's still in touch with friends at the high school, but she didn't actually attend herself — but now there's an article in the local paper on it.
The speaker was some actress named Tina Marie, and she was sponsored by a group called Youth for Christ. Of course. And why were they there?
West Central Youth for Christ has a high school presence in Willmar, Redwood Falls, and Springfield, among other places in the region. Tina Marie's visit was another step toward forming Youth for Christ chapters in both Morris and Benson.
Read Tina Marie's MySpace page or her blog, and you'll get a taste of what she brought to this event. This was proselytization for conservative evangelical Christianity, pure and simple, and it was supported by our public schools — the same schools that, a few years ago, were aghast at the thought of the students seeing a play that promoted tolerance. This is something they do support, though.
Speakers like Tina Marie are not the only activities Youth for Christ sponsors, but what the organization brings to Morris will depend on what area youth are interested in. The Morris chapter of Youth for Christ is still in the early fundraising stages, Graves explained, but said there is support from area leaders and a group of MAHS athletic coaches for the program.
So, if we tried to put together a group of Morris Atheists, would the high school agree to allow us to come in and interrupt classes so we could recruit and do a little fundraising? Or would they suddenly remember that the mission of a public school precludes using it for or against religion?
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What did Morris ever do to deserve abstinence advocates? Are the STI and teen pregnancy rates too low or something?
Completely and horribly off-topic, but:
I just got an email saying that I won the comments contest?! Is this for real or is there some way that someone not-Seed-related can get my email address off this site? Basically I would really really like this to be true but I am also really really paranoid. And good things like this don't happen to me, as a general rule. zomg?
CONGRATULATIONS, DiscGrace!!!!!
Wow, I'm so jealous!!
Doesn't this woman even have a gimick? At least when the "Power Team" came to waste time at my highschool they torn phonebooks in half and did other sideshow acts for a while. I bet twenty bucks Tina Marie has a talent other than being sancitomius godbotherer. Maybe she can do something with ping pong balls?
All kidding aside, high schools are the best places to recruit for Xianity: at that age, kids are naturally emotionally-charged, irrational, and practiced at sublimating their self-loathing into judgementality.
Okay, maybe all of high school isn't like Heathers. But these anti-gonad glee clubbers sure seem to want it to be. Minus the sex and the 80s theme music, of course.
PZ,
I recommend the term "proselytution" over "proselytization". (With apologies to Prostitutes, who are at least delivering value for the money they get.)
-jcr
Does anyone remember her in Austin Powers - The Spy Who Shagged Me?!? According to her bio she had a featured part. There's a Tina Mouri listed as "Go-go Dancer #2", I guess that was a "featured" part?
So, if we tried to put together a group of Morris Atheists, would the high school agree to allow us to come in and interrupt classes so we could recruit and do a little fundraising? Or would they suddenly remember that the mission of a public school precludes using it for or against religion?
Why don't you try and see? I mean, that's like the proper experimental protocol, right?
I wonder if the Youth for Christ people paid the school to let them come in. It does happen from time to time.
"Youth for Christ is not church, and doesn't seek to replace church groups," Graves said, "but it is a way to bring small groups of students from different churches together in an organization that promotes Christ. It helps foster faith that makes a difference."
Wait. Were the kids required to go to this crap, or were they allowed to "opt out" of classes for it? What is it doing in the public school anyway? How illegal is that?
Tina's blog blab doesn't allow comments and is TOTALLY FILLED WITH SHOUTING in all caps. I wonder what the high school English teachers in Morris would think of the quality of her writing.
She describes avoiding an obstacle while driving down the highway as a "near death experience." What a twit.
Why don't you contact them and ask? All innocent-like.
Ick, the blog. Oh the horror... the horror.
Here's a fun taste of her thougts on being embarassed about being an virgin till marriage: "REAL EMBARASSMENT is telling the man of your dreams or the woman of your dreams, that you have an STD and it's incurrable...you have it for life. REAL EMBARASSMENT is having to look this person in the eye and tell them that you can't have his children because you had an abortion and now your uterus is scarred and you can't get pregnant."
Um, contraception anyone?
Yes, indeedy folks. You even touch a genital and you'll be scarred for life, diseased and catch a case of broken uterus.
This also coming from the blog of a girl who is apparently obsessed with finding a husband so that she can have sex before god comes back: "I remember telling God, at 10, 'I promise to wait to have sex with my husband on my amazing wedding night or shortly after the ceremony, if you (God), promise not to come back for your people until I have sex.' I didn't think anyone would be able to have sex in Heaven, so I wanted to make sure God would come through on his end of the deal."
PZ, if you end up in Chicago soon, you owe me a beer for linking to that...
Is this legal? I would think that officially inviting a religious speaker to a public school to speak during class time would be very much against the Establishment clause.
Can I suggest you do put together a group of Morris Atheists and interrupt classes, etc.?
I thought Tina Marie was the actress who played the actress on Gilligan's Island. I could be wrong. On the other hand, I can sing all the lyrics to the Gilligan's Island theme song.
I'm really not proud of that fact.
I thought Tina Marie was the actress who played the actress on Gilligan's Island. I could be wrong. On the other hand, I can sing all the lyrics to the Gilligan's Island theme song.
I'm really not proud of that fact.
And here I was, thinking that firmly believing that the entire universe was created to harbor you was the pinnacle of unwarranted self importance and narcissism.
What self respecting creator of everything ever to be would delay what's supposed to be the greatest thing to ever happen because of a promise of a birds eye view of some awkward roll in the hay? Pascal's wager is an extraordinary example of integrity in comparison.
that was Tina Louise
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001481/
Okay, I just watched both of her promotional videos. Her "faith-based" one lambasts celebrities for appearing one way in front of the cameras, then living a goody-goody suburban lifestyle off-camera. For example, she lists the fact that Eminem won't let his 7-year-old daughter listen to his music as an example of his irresponsibility. Well, to me that's being resonsible. (So James Mason was an evil person for portraying a pedophile in Lolita because the movie can't be watched by 7-year-olds? What?) And this is different from what she, the abovementioned go-go dancer, is doing now?
Also, she complains about violence in the media, then says, "God blessed Mel Gibson for bringing a positive message" and berates Christians for spending their money on "graphically violent entertainment." Excuse me, wasn't The Passion of the Christ rated R? Forbidden to children (including Eminem's daughter)? Because it was graphically violent? Huh?
"What life do you want," Tina Marie? What sloppy thinking!
She's a mess.
"God blessed Mel Gibson for bringing a positive message"
Blessed him with a drinking binge and a state trooper, I see. Works in mysterious ways that god does.
Maybe she was one of those 'Born Again Virgins'
You know. I haven't had sex since the last time I had sex.
She's an "actress"? She doesn't seem to be any of the "Tina Marie"s listed in the IMDb, unless perhaps she's this "Tina Marie", star of such greats as Naughty Girls Need Love Too, Still Insatiable, Secured & Suspended, or (my favourite title) The Coming of Christy (I think that last one had a sequel...).
Check this out:
Isn't it good to know that the padre has the best interest of your children in mind?
Oh man. At 10?!? That cannot be healthy for one's sanity.
I want to quote-mine.
I remember a group like this came to my highschool once. It didn't go well; The first thing the motivational mandroid said was "There are many ways a young woman can get pregnant..." to which some wag yelled out "NAME TWO!". It was downhill from there.
She's an "actress"? She doesn't seem to be any of the "Tina Marie"s listed in the IMDb...
Here's her resume:
http://www.tinamarielive.com/www/Promo/ACTING%20RESUME.pdf
No movie called "Invisible" seems to have her in it, there is no entry for "Dr. Acula", "Silent Cries" doesn't seem to have her either and the director is different, nobody with even the first name of Tina is listed for "The Spy Who Shagged Me "...
I call shenanigans!
Reginald Selkirk: Fox news - because the only way to portray events in a fair and balanced way is only bringing involved parties from one side in!
I was also trying to cross check her acting resume with IMDB...not only could I not find her listed anywhere, but I couldn't find any of the movies or directors (except for Austin Powers:TSWSM, which has no Tina listed). SAG doesn't appear to have a place to lookup members of SAG or AFTRA.
I don't see why the school is involved in this at all. That is downright nuts, and surely agains church/state separation. It would be one thing if they gave some religious students time out, but to cancel classes, that is directly encouraging it.
"So, if we tried to put together a group of Morris Atheists, would the high school agree to allow us to come in and interrupt classes so we could recruit and do a little fundraising? Or would they suddenly remember that the mission of a public school precludes using it for or against religion?"
This might be a good exercise for Skatje's group. Instead of making it anti-religious - make it on skeptism in advertising, life and moral values. Ask for the same treatment this group had. See waht ahppens and publicize
Let me return to the burning stupid.
I was going to point out the subtle blasphemy of do ut des*, when it occurred to me that this promise wasn't a blackmail at all. Suppose Jesus comes back (even if only "for his people") before the poor girl marries. What is she going to do? Hastily build a time machine, go back in time, and bang someone? Methinks not.
Does stupid oxide stink? Because I think I can smell it all the way to here.
* The ancient Roman attitude to the gods: "I give so that you give".
The first thing the motivational mandroid said was "There are many ways a young woman can get pregnant..." to which some wag yelled out "NAME TWO!". It was downhill from there.
Ha ha ha!
I think what we need to get into the schools ourselves is some comedy act that parodies this garbage. That would rock. Some crappy name, like "The Sunshine-Is-Possible Youth Group," crappy monikers like "Monica and Veronica" who deliver winners like "Do you believe the sun is gonna come up tomorrow? DO YOU BELIEVE THE SUN IS GONNA COME UP TOMORROW? Raise your hand if you think the answer is yes!" The adults won't get it, the kids will - and they'll love us for helping them escape from class while delivering some yuks (hell, let's slip some science in there while we're at it), and then at the end, spring the atheism on them. "Do you believe there is a teapot orbiting Mars? DO YOU BELIEVE THERE IS A TEAPOT ORBITING MARS? Neither do we."
I remember a group like this came to my highschool once. It didn't go well; The first thing the motivational mandroid said was "There are many ways a young woman can get pregnant..." to which some wag yelled out "NAME TWO!". It was downhill from there.
I agree with Kristine. THIS is funny. Although someone certain had to add, "Show video!"
Read her blogs and I've got to say that she comes of like the conductor of the Crazy Train. Of course, most of them do, with their caps, weird colors and hysterics over mundane items.
This greatly disturbs me. I want to see Christian wingnuts like this one cast back into the woodwork.
I did get some good news yesterday though. A friend IM'd me and told me his youngest son who is eight years old did something I never did at that age.
I'm thinking to myself what the hell could it be, had sex, got his amateur radio license. Oh no, it's better than that.
Apparently his son was expelled from the Catholic school he attended. It was all because he told a nun that religion was pretty much bullshit.
I know where it came from, by friend is an atheist as am I. His ex-wife is Catholic and so she was putting the kids through Catholic schools. Well, one less anyhow.
I would love to have been a fly on the wall to see the expression on the nuns face when the kid said to her.
My epiphany came much later, at 15 when during our final interview for confirmation I told the priest I didn't believe a bit of it. They confirmed anyway.
Sorry for the typos in that last one.
I do note her "Almost Died" blog entry. Yeah, their god sure does work in mysterious but not quite accurate ways.
What's *really* sad is that somebody with fishlips for brains actually thought this person would be GOOD for the kids! Teenagers may be crazy, but they aren't any more stupid than the rest of the population.
Ought to conduct a survey (properly, should have conducted one before Mz Kellogs showed up at the school, but that can't be helped) to see how much her little act went over. I'm willing to bet that after a day or so, a huge percentage of the kids (i.e. those not already in the "I'm saving myself for Jeeezus" crowd) will barely remember her - and what they DO remember will be distorted into ... well, pretty much what's being said about her here.
I do agree, too, with those who suggest that a counter group should oughta approach said school. "Rational Thought in Today's Rapidlly Changing World". Then, get up on stage and take current events revolving around religion (the big one, of course, is ID/Evolution) and rip the fundamentalist's "arguments" to shreds.
Can also mention - since that seems to be a significant portion of the first talk was about it - that Doctors have a technical term for women who practice abstinence. In the medical profession, they're called "Mothers". I forget the failure rate for that national save my body for god campaign, but it was well into the 90s. Can't find the darn reference. The article points out, anyway, that the percentage of young adults who made the promise - and then failed - is just about the same as the number of young adults who DON'T make the promise, and remain virgin until marriage.
Face it, mom and dad, teenagers are GOING to fool around. When you told them "Stay out of the cookies" on your way out the door, did they? Right. Not unless you locked the cookie jar - and even then, they probably figured out how to pick the lock.
So, given that your kids ARE going to have sex, what's the best option? Somebody above mentioned it... that filthy "C" word! Contraception! There, I said it! [ I'm going to hell, now. Or would be, if there was such a place.] It's cheap. It's reliable. It's safe, and you don't have to worry about your children lying to you.
As the parent of teens, I suggest these other parents grow up>/i>.
'I promise to wait to have sex with my husband on my amazing wedding night or shortly after the ceremony,
shortly after the ceremony?
was she planning to stage an exhibition on the altar?
that's one horny chick.
all the caps must be because of all the sexual repression.
just LET GO, honey!
actually, looking at the site, she's simply a prostitute, selling lies in the form of t-shirts (like the "virgins are hot" one) and crappy videos.
which makes it even more pathetic that she would be invited to speak at a high school.
I seriously think the focus here shouldn't be on that twit, but who was responsible within the school district for such a waste of money and time.
Check out the promo section of her site: http://www.tinamarielive.com/promo.html.
If you click on "topics" you will be shocked to learn things like some popular music contains "bad" language, there was nudity and "bad" language in Porky's 2, and some video games are violent. Oh, and she exposes these lies: premarital sex is safe and everyone is doing it; drugs and alcohol are harmless; using violence can solve your problems; and, suicide is an acceptable way out. And on top of all this, they say Britney Spears is a slut. Who knew? I wish someone had told me about these things earlier in life.
I also checked her acting resume and I can't find her listed on IMDb for any of the TV shows she mentions. I have a feeling that, if she actually appeared in any of the shows, she was cast as "girl with hat" or "second blond".
I find people like her reprehensible. Why are they allowed to spew their venom to kids in public high schools?
"They confirmed anyway."
Wait. Wait, wait, wait. Back up a minute.
Tony, you TOLD them you didn't believe in any part of their faith, and they confirmed you into the faith anyway?
Boy. Talk about a "gentleman's C."
What a bunch of freakin' hypocrites. Isn't this one of the biggest, most personal, most spiritual rites of passage they have? Isn't it supposed to, you know, mean something? Isn't it supposed to be something other than just an empty ritual that you do because everyone else your age is doing it too?
Hm. Guess not.
"Contraception!"
Lurch, you bad bad person. No teenager would ever have had sex before marriage if you hadn't told them about... you know... thingie. The C word. Now the cat's out of the bag. And it's all your fault. Shame on you.
Regardless of her affiliations, if the presentation pushed healthy lifestyles, abstinence or Madonna or the Teletubbies or whoever being gay, fine and dandy.
However, if she explicity pushed any God/Jesus during the presentation or any of the materials related to it had any religious content, I'd suggest contacting Americans United. Page here: http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=legal_reportaviolation
There's a form there to report C.S. violations. A recording or partial transcript of the presentation would be helpful.
I usually recommend A.U. as they specialize in Church/State and have a good track record of preventing violations before they happen just by notifying. (Check their pages for "The Bod Squad" to see a similar case of this sort of preachy school presentation.) A school that might want to deliberately buck the A.C.L.U. will usually lose this misguided martyr complex when they find out that A.U. is run by a minister and acquiesce.
Wow, history really does rhyme. Maybe Pixar needs to bring out a version of Binky Meets the Holy Virgin Mary, a wonderful, if slightly overwrought, tale of growing up and learning that humans have sex. (see: http://www.lastgasp.com/d/584/)
About three or four years ago, when I mentioned that the mode of the baby boom echo cohort was hitting 18 in 2006, my informed source told me flat out, "The Christian right is dead." "How's that?", I asked. "Their kids are going to have sex and it's all over." No wonder they're stepping up their recruiting.
If you click on "topics" you will be shocked to learn things like some popular music contains "bad" language, there was nudity and "bad" language in Porky's 2, and some video games are violent.
SOS
(the Music Man - Robert Preston version - my favorite musical, btw.)
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/themusicman/yagottrouble.htm
Do y'all wear bells and dance? I'm seeing some crossover potential here.
Ummm... PZ, you are at a university, which I assume has quite a few resources dedicated (at least on paper) to doing K-12 education and outreach.
From a little further down on her "virginity history" entry:
"Here's the deal kids. Don't think about sex. Don't practice on yourself or anybody else. Don't read books about it, watch movies with it, or listen to music that puts you in the mood for it. Don't educate yourself about your body, someone else's body, or the mechanics of sex and contraception. And I GUARANTEE that your first time will be AWESOME! Now, be sure to come back next week when I present the Indy 500 Racing Obstacle Course for People Who Have Never Driven a Car. It's gonna ROCK!
Also, "YIPPY"? Seriously?
'Cause that boy won't have fooled around before marriage and brought you an STD. And married people never cheat on their spouses, or abuse them, or treat them like posessions. You don't even need to know their name! As long as they haven't had sex, everything else will magically be perfect!
Uh huh. I guess that explains why the woman I've been having unmarried sex with since high-school has stayed with me for the last sixteen years. Oh wait, no it doesn't.
Again, virgins are totally safe, becuase married couples never get divorced.
Also, why should you feel guilt and shame if your partner cheated on you?
"My So-Called Pleasure. The drama that dares to take an unrealistic look at sex, personal autonomy, and happiness. Starring thirty-year olds pretending to be teenages. Coming soon to TBN."
Jeez, first sex was TOTALLY AWESOME! Now it's just "Meh. No big whoop."?
Tee-hee.
I'd like to second (third, fourth?) the motion that PZ gather his trained animals up, head on over to the school and demand equal time.
Kid's love a petting zoo and the local blogosphere has been hurting for quality material since the moonbat "rapture" at the Star & Sickle.
Come to jee-suss or I'll bite you with my big scary teeth!
be sure to come back next week when I present the Indy 500 Racing Obstacle Course for People Who Have Never Driven a Car. It's gonna ROCK!
LOL
perfect.
Would anyone care to explain to me what Timothy (3 posts above) is talking about? Thanks.
Ichthyic is back! :-)
just a working reporter's observation, but that story was horrifically written. jeez. i've worked in community newspapers for years and i'm appalled at how credulous that story was. that's not reporting that's dictation.
This speaker apparently has already been to my own kid's school, and without a single mention to parents! I wouldn't have known if it hadn't been for an article in the Willmar paper, which led to comments, which led to a link to the Morris article... this is completely out of line. A school has no business being so tied to a religious organization. The schools we so trustingly send our children to are holding the doors open for strangers to freely waltz in and force-feed students religious messages and moral values.
Oh man. At 10?!? That cannot be healthy for one's sanity.
I want to quote-mine.
Let me return to the burning stupid.
I was going to point out the subtle blasphemy of do ut des*, when it occurred to me that this promise wasn't a blackmail at all. Suppose Jesus comes back (even if only "for his people") before the poor girl marries. What is she going to do? Hastily build a time machine, go back in time, and bang someone? Methinks not.
Does stupid oxide stink? Because I think I can smell it all the way to here.
* The ancient Roman attitude to the gods: "I give so that you give".