The Taylor County school board has taken a big step: they've voted to oppose evolution:
Whereas, the Florida Department of Education has drafted and is now proposing new Sunshine State Standards for Science, the Taylor County School Board opposes the implementation of the new standards as currently presented.
Whereas, the new Sunshine State Standards for Science no longer present evolution as theory but as "the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported in multiple forms of scientific evidence," we are requesting that the State Board of Education direct the Florida Department of Education to revise/edit the new Sunshine State Standards for Science so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the universe was formed.
Whereas, the Taylor County School Board recognizes the importance of providing a thorough and comprehensive Science education to all the students in Taylor County and to all students in the state of Florida, it recognizes as even more important the need to present these standards through a fair and balanced approach, an approach that does not unfairly exclude other theories as to the creation of the universe.
NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the Taylor County School Board of Taylor County, Perry, Florida, that the Board urges the State Board of Education to direct the Florida Department of Education to revise the new Sunshine State Standards for Science such that evolution is not presented as fact, but as one of several theories.
Charming, huh? Voting is magic! Let's vote that pi=3, little green men live on Mars, and that it will rain money every Sunday.
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They think Darwin is responsible for the Big Bang?
The Indiana State Legislature once voted to make pi=3.2.
Somehow, the universe refused to conform.
" . . . one of several theories as to how the universe was formed"?
What would the other ones be? And they need to be THEORIES, i.e., a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena. I wonder what alternative they would propose that would live up to the standards of actual science?
"Whereas, the Taylor County School Board recognizes the importance of providing a thorough and comprehensive Science education to all the students in Taylor County and to all students in the state of Florida, it recognizes as even more important the need to present these standards through a fair and balanced approach, an approach that does not unfairly exclude other theories as to the creation of the universe."
I think the committee in charge of writing the first part of this sentence forgot to check with the committee that wrote the second part. The second part seems to have sorta forget that they were talking about the science class and scientific definitions of "theory" rather than the "I think the butler did it in the study with the wrench" sort of theory.
> so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the universe was formed.
What's it got to do with the universe? Surely when we talk of 'evolution' we're talking about the development of biological life on earth, not the origin of the Universe?
These people can't even draft a resolution without conflating concepts (and abusing the word theory as a free bonus).
Whereas, The Taylor County School Board are a bunch of twats.
What a load of self-aggrandising, self-serving BS. I'm a fucking barrister and we don't write goddamn WHEREAS or THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED anymore. If they think talking in Ye Olde Goddamn English makes what they're saying any less craptastic they're sadly mistaken.
There needs to be a name for this prize. Something along the lines of: "Bill 'Oxycontin' Buckingham Prize for Mendacious Stupidity" or "Thomas More Law Centre Prize for Wasting School District Money on Law Suits You Can't Possibly Win".
Monetary value: -$1000000.
Additional perks: getting turfed at the next election.
Thanks for linking, PZ. The more light we shine on these people, the better.
It looks like the Pastafarians will have some new people to educate.
Ahh, just push 'em in the ocean. I'm hungry, and haven't had a decent sacrifice in days...
This is what happens when America thinks with its wang.
Whereas let it be resolved that the commenters of Pharyngula vote to force the lousy anti-intellectuals to list all of the alternate theories they want to mandate including in class, and let the list be part of the public record.
In case their silly vote is more than phony,
Taylor County--please vote me a pony!
Idiots.
...so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the universe was formed
What are you folks complaining about? The school board is obviously so enamored with TOE that they're willing to extend it way beyond biology.
Time to call out MC Hawking again.
Might as well rain money. Those barely-accredited Christian colleges cause it to rain diplomas every May and December.
Florida is a gross place to me now. I shall never visit it.
Huckabee's people. What a load of Hucktards.
Happy Nisbet? This will be what's left for Collins to endorse. It's so vertical.
Shit, that was the wrong MC Hawking. This is the right one.
This is to be expected from a state whose official song contains the following verse:
I'm a bit of a luddite.
So sometimes when I see these things, I envision the drafters not as complete idiots, but as crafty people who are insulating their county from undue economic growth and expansion. And hey, none of those annoying know-it-alls will move here.
"other theories as to the creation of the universe"
Oh man... they don't have a clue. I'm almost embarrassed for them.
It's amazing that people who write non sequiturs think they're intelligent enough to dictate school policy. Um, gee, dumbfucks, there's no contradiction between teaching evolution as theory and as the fundamental concept underlying all of biology.
Nonetheless, I have to wonder if it's "the" fundamental concept underlying all of biology. True, it's the fundamental concept unique (at least unique in its particular form) to biology which also underlies all of biology, however many fundamental concepts actually do underlie biology, including QM.
By the way, morons on the school board, it's time that you deal with the congruent evidences coming from independent lines of investigation which in fact do support this particular theory, and the utter lack of any line of evidence which supports Platonic forms, naive myths (Genesis, Ovid), or a completely worthless concept like ID. If you could actually address those issues adequately, you might have a point. Lacking any ability to deal with the evidence, you indicate that you're badly in need of education yourselves, apparently from a more intelligent region, like NYC.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Ignorance, thy name is Floridian.
Would someone please explain to me why the southern states are such champions of pig ignorance? Inquiring minds want to know.
My daughter used to teach a special education class in Perry, Florida. You get a lot of special education kids when elementary school children are being sexually abused by their relatives.
Other than that, Taylor County is a nice quiet rural piney woods forest area, but I wouldn't want to live there.
"...it recognizes as even more important the need to present these standards through a fair and balanced approach..."
Fox News fair and balanced or actual fair and balanced? I'm guessing the former.
"...an approach that does not unfairly exclude other theories as to the creation of the universe."
What's the problem then? A "theory" of the creation of the universe (are we talking about cosmology or biology?) that is based on faith and religious belief is being excluded, while one of the strongest scientific theories in existence is being included. I'm pretty sure that's fair.
In addition to what others have quite rightly said about this, you're far too much tipping your hand toward violation of the 1st Amendment there. Sure, you're too dumb to recognize that evolution isn't a creation myth, but merely the recognition of what has happened well after the "creation" of the universe. Unfortunately for yourselves, though, you quoted the fact that evolution is a fundamental concept of biology, rather than of cosmology, and your complete ignorance of the difference between the two areas of study is no excuse.
See the thing is, fuckwits, that the religionists who accept evolution are certainly correct about one thing, which is that evolution happens not to be the rival of an actual creation myth (though it treads on Biblical creation myths). It is not a theory about anything involving creation at all, even, rather about change through time. You just hate it because it supplants your magic, however you're too ignorant and prejudiced to be able to distinguish between your religion and the carefully delineated domains in science.
Thus you're setting yourselves up for a whopping large charge over the impending lawsuit, if you keep going down that road of stupidity. Why don't you morons call up the Dover school board, and ask how they like paying the costs to point out how brazenly stupid, arrogant, and uneducated so many of the previous members (and too many present members) of that board really are? You might get to pay much more to show that you're at least as stupid.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Evolution as a theory of how the universe was formed?
that's flattering in scope, but ignorant.
Since the debut of Faux News, every time I hear the words; "fair" and "balanced" used together, I know to expect neither.
I really wouldn't be opposed to making Florida the all-YEC, all the time state. Why not? It'll be underwater soon enough...
Call it what it is. They've voted to lie about the nature of scientific theories.
Two words: Religious Fundamentalism.
I love the softball questions.
(I'm stating the obvious here, but I must. It's not strictly geographical. There are ignorant fools everywhere, but the culture of ignorance is more firmly rooted in those areas where the Fundies predominate. Trends notwithstanding, all my friends and acquaintences from the South are intelligent, educated, politically moderate in a broad sense - no flaming lefties or wingnuts - and exhibit a range of religiousity from atheist to church-shunning believers. None deny evolution, none believe in a young earth, and even the Kentuckians think the Creation Museum is at best a sorry embarrassment.)
Sigh. I can't say I'm surprised. Taylor County has some serious self-destructive tendencies, with their tendency to welcome polluting industry at the expense of their natural resources and public health. It is only a small step from there to self-imposed public humiliation for pandering to Creationists. I can't say that I'm happy about it, but I am not surprised.
Taylor County... is that where they shot Deliverance?
Hey!
We in Ohio will have you know that southern states do NOT have a monopoly on rampant idiocy. Our own standard bearers for intellectual incompetency have led the way for many a year, and I am sure they would be incensed to hear you say such things if they bothered to educate themselves about, well, anything.
Also, let's not forget the woefully misinformed in Kansas. They might not be happy to hear you steal the title of "champion of pig ignorance". But they're not usually happy about anything.
And then there's the part where the Taylor County resolution was passed unanimously by the Board!
Even if the sample size is small, these people are supposed to have been selected as representative of their voters. Can it be that almost no-one in the County is speaking out for science?
Carl Baugh is at it again.
People and dinosaurs lived together, and as evidence he's giving...
wait for it
wait for it...
The Loch Ness monster.
"so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the universe was formed."
Umm... Honest question. Do these folks know anything about science at all? Namely that there is more than one branch of it?
I know I'm not the first to comment on that little tidbit, but... Wow. Head hurts. I need to lie down after that one.
This is wonderfully amusing, in its grotesque, southern gothic way... It is unfair that evolution has turned out to be the only coherent story we can tell about life-- unfair, that is, to the innocent presuppositions of faith-based ignorance. But to anyone who can appreciate wonder and richness, it's downright beautiful.
This stuff just continues to amaze/amuse me.
How on earth can a group of adults on a school board come up with a resolution with no one saying something to the effect of . . .
"Oh, um, y'know . . . you may not like, um, evilooshun, but, um, it's not about how the universe was formed. It's just about how life on earth developed. Y'know . . . it's not even about how life on earth originally started. So, maybe, y'know, you shouldn't say stuff about not teaching evilooshun as being a theory of how the universe started, because, um . . . NOBODY IS TEACHING THAT YOU MORONS!"
Wow! Cosmology. Isn't there are theory that the fine-tuning of the universe constants isn't due to some antropic principal but due to evolution via black holes? So we have:
1. Big bang
2. Steady State
3. Pulsating universe (I love that one),
4. Evolution of the multiverse,
5. Godditit.
We shouldn't rush to conclusions over this. After all, the minutes of the Taylor County School Board meeting says they started the meeting with a prayer. I'm pretty certain they asked God for wisdom. God wouldn't turn down a plea from a nice school board, now would he? Especially since they're willing to flout church/state separation by praying as representatives of a public sector institution.
But to anyone who can appreciate wonder and richness, it's downright beautiful.
And the people said, rAmen!!
Seriously. It's amazing...and awesome (in the original sense, as Eddie Izzard would say).
Maybe we should hold off on reigning in global warming, until Florida is completely underwater at least.
One more data point regarding the (in)efficacy of prayer.
Watching Disneyworld sink beneath the waves would be oddly satisfying, but I'd be sorry to see Cape Canaveral and the Everglades go under.
Uhh, what happens when a law is factually inaccurate?
but I'd be sorry to see Cape Canaveral and the Everglades go under.
Imagine the eco-tourism opportunities!
Sadly, Bride of Shrek, the plain language movement hasn't really taken hold yet in the U.S. And so yes, everything from congress to the local school board writes like this. Not just the morons.
I for one welcome the opportunity to introduce more students to Pastafarianism in public schools.
Only His Noodleliness has the balls to create the universe.
"Whereas, the new Sunshine State Standards for Science no longer present evolution as theory but as "the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported in multiple forms of scientific evidence,"
You don't suppose that's because the people who wrote the standards for the whole state know more about science than you do, do you? Oh no no.
"Whereas, the Taylor County School Board recognizes the importance of providing a thorough and comprehensive Science education to all the students in Taylor County and to all students in the state of Florida, it recognizes as even more important the need to present these standards through a fair and balanced approach,
Surely what they mean is Fair & Balanced®. Rupert Murdoch's lawyers will be in touch. Or not. May he burn in his nonexistent Hell.
we are requesting that the State Board of Education direct the Florida Department of Education to revise/edit the new Sunshine State Standards for Science so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the universe was formed.
Yeah, let's teach them the one of the theories about how the universe it was formed blah blah blah...
Good grief. Yep, the next U.S. presidential election is gonna be a fun one!! I can tell already...
"Whereas, the new Sunshine State Standards for Science no longer present evolution as theory but as [the definition of 'theory' in the context of Science]
There is so much irony here, it is hard to believe it was achieved by ignorance. We wouldn't ascribe malice to these people would we?
Ahh, just push 'em in the ocean. I'm hungry, and haven't had a decent sacrifice in days...
sorry, great Cthulhu, we just don't think these infidels worthy of your cavernous maw.
we don't want you getting sick before your grand entrance now, do we?
btw, Dagon's cell phone battery must be on the fritz or something, he hasn't picked up in days now. tell him to check his email or something, please?
thanks,
a devoted future snack.
This is sorta like watching a drunken monkey play with a handgun
This is sorta like watching a drunken monkey play with a handgun
Two images lept to mind: Eddie Izzard doing his "monkeys with guns" riff on the NRA; and Chief Wiggum eating donuts off his gun in the Simpsons Movie. No relevance, but I'm just sitting here giggling.
"Carl Baugh is at it again.
People and dinosaurs lived together, and as evidence he's giving...
wait for it
wait for it...
The Loch Ness monster."
Hey buddy, I just went and saw "The Water Horse" and I think that movie was great so screw-off!
Also, let's not forget the woefully misinformed in Kansas. They might not be happy to hear you steal the title of "champion of pig ignorance". But they're not usually happy about anything.
don't forget Texas.
and even rural areas of my own state of CA have had their share of moronic school board shenanigans in the last few years, sad to say.
the point being that indeed, idiocy is NOT a localized phenomenon.
it's a problem that exists in everyone's backyards.
http://home.earthlink.net/~tjneal/stupid.wav
the point being that indeed, idiocy is NOT a localized phenomenon.
it's a problem that exists in everyone's backyards.
That's why I stay in apartments in the city: no back yard.
Actually, this is a very common format for political resolutions in the U.S., from the town council level all the way up (?) to the Houses of Congress. Yeah, it's pretentious, but it's How Things Are Officially Done.
I don't begrudge them that. The real problem I have with it (outside of, say, the actual content of the resolution) is that they can't even get their use of "whereas" right. In resolutions of this sort it is used to mean "given the fact that . . .", and each clause beginning "Whereas . . ." presents an additional reason for a resolution, which is stated in the final paragraph ("... therefore, be it resolved that ..."). But that's not what they're doing here. Instead, their second paragraph presents both a reason and resolution ("whereas X, we are recommending Y"), and their third paragraph uses "whereas" to mean "although".
Having resolved to muff the substance, they can't get even the form right. Idiots2.
Yup, Congress. The lovely "We're a Christian Nation Waah Waah" resolution have been in this format. I remember writing things this way when I was on Student Senate back at Iowa State.
I hear he gave his wife an orgasm once.
There should be one of those campaign advertisement disclaimers at the end of it:
"I'm Stupid. I'm an Idiot. I'm Uneducated. I'm Clueless. And we approved this message."
I hear he gave his wife an orgasm once.
From what some of my girlfriend's tell me, this is a statistical improbability.
Time to pass out the pop-corn, here cometh Dover II. Who knows, they may even break Kent out of prison as a star "expert"...
From what some of my girlfriend's tell me, this is a statistical improbability.
how would they know...
[Hovind]Were they THERE?[/Hovind]
sorry, just had to.
:p
how would they know...
[Hovind]Were they THERE?[/Hovind]
sorry, just had to.
Well, Goddidit and "faking it" are pretty much the same thing aren't they?
there is a reason that Fark has a special tag just for stories from Florida...this richly illustrates why...
Well, Goddidit and "faking it" are pretty much the same thing aren't they?
hmm, i have to rethink what it means when whoever I'm dating at the time says "OH GOD!!!" at what I thought were 'critical' moments...
#42,
Think of it as God understanding the futility of the effort.
I don't think it is southern per se but closer toward the equator. We seem to have a higher concentration of nutcases in Queensland. It might be some corollary of the coriolis effect.
We have an acronym reserved for the epicentre of this kind of thing: FNQ
Actually the question mark was not for whether Congress uses that format (I'm aware of H.R. 888 and even considered mentioning it). It was for whether the direction from town council to Congress is really "up".
hmm, i have to rethink what it means when whoever I'm dating at the time says "OH GOD!!!" at what I thought were 'critical' moments...
sorry.....
This was just a 'we urge you' resolution that is now more than six weeks old. It is only a sad little wail at the state board for firming up support for evolution in the statewide standards.
No lawsuits since the vote was nothing but a worthless piece of propaganda to make their voters feel all Christiany. Nice of them to light up their own targetting beacon for us, though.
sorry.....
no worries, i just take it as more evidence of god's nonexistence.
:P
Does this mean we can vote for beer volcanoes and striper factories now?
Does this mean we can vote for beer volcanoes and striper factories now?
yes. yes it does.
cureholder @ 2: "The Indiana State Legislature once voted to make pi=3.2. Somehow, the universe refused to conform."
But ever since then, the ratio between a circle's diameter and its circumference has been π-0.0584073464....
I'm one of the Kentuckians horrified by the creation museum. I now live in western Michigan, in an area fiercely Calvinist (complete with Jesus fish, blue laws, and people wearing "Darwin Lied!" t-shirts.) It hasn't been my experience that this sort of belief underlying this proclamation is particularly southern.
Certain manifestations of these attitudes may be regional, though. People in the south talk funny and have a tradition of being politically cantankerous. People where I come from also often don't care what evidence exists if the bearer of the news is pushy and impolite, and will resist on principle.
I think one of the reasons evolution and atheism gets rejected out of hand is that a lot of freethinkers are inclined to call assertive believers stuff like 'fuckwit'.
I agree with the sentiments expressed in the comments here most of the time, but I have been deeply conditioned to feel revulsion at rude behavior, even when engaged in serious struggle, and perhaps that is a Southern thing.
I'm not lecturing anyone. I'm trying to explain what occurs viscerally when I hear an argument made through insults.
My sensibilities aren't such that I can't stand up to it, but I don't want to engage in it. I can either persuade with some dignity and reserve, or I would rather end the debate and take some practical action, like a lawsuit in the case of this silly proclamation. YMMV.
It's pathetic that people bring up that the Bible says pi=3.
It doesn't.
It does describe a vessel (with a substantial brim) using that ratio, but no one knows the intended precision and whether the outside or inside diameter was being referred to.
Sheesh!
I am so disappointed. We recently visited Orlando and had a great time. The fishing is also excellent in Florida. I would like to retire there, but fundies give me hives. Is there any way that we can hurry up this Rapture thing?
To steal a line posted elsewhere, they must be thinking of Darwin's less famous work, "On the Origin of Spacetime"
begrudge them that. The real problem I have with it (outside of, say, the actual content of the resolution) is that they can't even get their use of "whereas" right. In resolutions of this sort it is used to mean "given the fact that . . .", and each clause 烟气余热蒸汽炉
刮板式薄膜蒸发器
蒸馏塔
除尘器
填料beginning "Whereas . . ." presents an additional reason for a resolution, which is stated in the final paragraph
Saith the PZ:
They don't have to. Many of them probably shower their 'pastors' with donations on a regular basis already.
Sunshine State Standards for Science
try saying that ten times fast
It is, however, describing a rather large (and particularly silly) structure, so it shouldn't have been too much to expect the bible to say, "and a line of thirty-one cubits did compass it round about" instead of thirty.
Nice comments, Dave Eaton.
@#$%&*!!!
Ah,never mind, I'll just walk down to the beach and watch the sunrise. Oh, and all you non Florida residents, thanks for all your support.
Quick search on Danny Lundy, who pushed the motion in this school board gives :
http://www.nfcc.edu/AlumFdn/alumni2005.html
NFJC : North Florida Junior County
1972 NFJC graduate, pastor, public works supervisor for City of Perry, school board member, Perry, Fla.
Also,
http://www.taylorbaptistassociation.com/templates/System/details.asp?id…
Rev. Danny Lundy
Taylor Baptist Association
A baptist minister with a Junior College degree knows of course much better than all scientists what are the details of the history of the universe....
And of course, as a baptist minister, you are sure that his religion didn't influence his motion.
Dave Eaton:
From a resident of West Michigan (formerly Grand Rapids, now Kalamazoo), I have to say, spot on.
An Alabamian transplant I know once said of the area, "Y'all have the same stupid attitudes up here, but at least the South has a little style about it."
West Michigan is sort of a mutant step-sibling to the IDiot portions of the South.
Idiots.
Way to force your irrational beliefs on other peoples kids.
More than just ignorance of science coming from Mr Lundy:
"4.02 Award of Bids
Upon motion by Darrell Whiddon, seconded by Kenneth Dennis, with Danny Lundy abstaining, the
Board approved the following award of bid.
1.) Seal Bid for Carpentry House
The bid was awarded to Doyle Lundy. Mr. Lundy was the highest bidder at $61,000.00."
So the highest bid was approved, and just happened to be a relative of Mr Lundy?
"Fair and balanced" huh? Look up "fair and balanced" in this Republican to English dictionary and you'll get what they really mean: http://www.dailyawesome.com/2007/11/republican_to_english_dictionary
This does not surprise me at all. I live in the next county. Dealing with Taylor County in any capacity it trying at best. Moving into the 20th century is going to be a challenge let alone the 21st.
My husband and I went to the final public hearing on the science standards last night. It was heartening to see how many thoughtful, intelligent, well-spoken people came out to support true science. One of the most memorable was an 11th grade student who informed the board that he felt insulted by insufficient science standards that would hinder his ability to compete in the college market.
Of course the wingnuts sent a contingent, but it didn't take long for their true colors to show. One warned that evolution was responsible for a recent murder case - a 12-year-old is accused of killing a 17-month-old toddler, you know, because nothing proves the existence of god like children being killed by other children. Another one claimed that the First Amendment makes no claims about "freedom of religion" but that the words are taken from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to someone. Of course, my favorite was the one who said that the USSR is controlled by communists and atheists. USSR? Look at a map lately, genius? *sigh*
I am glad that we outnumbered, them, though. The ACLU and other supporters were there, and they reminded the board about what happened to Dover - not just the legal precedent that will be difficult to challenge, but the financial ruling that will cost the school system one million dollars. My husband and I, both native Floridians, will continue to fight the insanity and support the *evolution* of science standards in our state.
Have you seen the latest from Taylor County?:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flpevolution0109pn…
C-o-c-c-y-x.
HTH.
Whereas, the Taylor County School Board believes that evolution is a theory of "how the universe was formed".
Whereas, I am late to this post and everyone already pointed out how silly that is.
Whereas, in a comment early yesterday on the Mark Mathis post I said parenthetically: "these are, after all, the same sort of people who conflate cosmology and biological evolution".
NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that I am some sort of oracle of near-future snark opportunities..
You know, on the various Star Trek iterations, there is always a planet with hugely advanced, space-faring species, and ON THE SAME PLANET are also backward zealots of one sort or another who oppose such space travel.
Who says life doesn't imitate art?
SG
Re #93: Maybe we could arange a meeting between Oscar Howard and Oleg Polovski.
Sure, I'd agree with that. But, on the flip side, it might also be important to note that a good reason why rude behavior is introduced can be found at #88:
In this sense, the "polite" behavior is clearly just as rude as saying "fuckwit." They're only smiling when they do it (which kinda makes it worse).
Uhhhh.... errr... ggnnnnngh.....
[Hang on a sec while I scrape my jaw off the floor...]
Step aside, Kansas. You've been surpassed.
I have the misfortune to be dealing with another pack of idiots (the Polk County, FL, School Board) who, like Taylor County, apparently feel that they have pots of money to toss around to pay for their lawsuits once their insane positions are struck down. Or maybe some of their imbecilic supporters from out of state will pass the hat - Taylor County's small and doesn't have a fat tax base.
Why is Florida the Home of the Idiot? I'm not sure; ask the people of Kansas (whose antiabortion wingnuts found an obscure law that allows the public to petition for a grand jury, and is currently seeking an indictment on abortion clinics in the state). There are idiots everywhere, but the worst is the Small-Brained Idiot. This subspecies is known for having the largest mouth of any member of the animal kingdom, while having a brain that would make an Amphioxus say, "Dude, that's a bit small, isn't it?"
Can the Taylor County school board be brought up on child abuse charges? What about felony neglect?
*shaking head in disbelief* What the fuck is wrong with Americans?!
(In fairness, I should point out that I am, in fact, an American myself. Still.)
As other has pointed out, it's about ratio. I'm from the South and (in my opinion) turned out fine. There are just more of the nuts in my region than in other regions, but everywhere has a large collection of nuts. It's the difference between 40/60 and 60/40.
...and on a different note, some comments in this thread have implied that this "law" does something. It's just an (incredibly idiotic) resolution. It lets the board vent its anger without doing anything, and might appease some of the fundies so that they will drop the issue.
It might be best to call them fucktards and then let it drop, because they have not said that they will teach anything besides evolution.
Whereas, the new Sunshine State Standards for Science no longer present evolution as theory but as "the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported in multiple forms of scientific evidence...
Whereas, the Taylor County School Board recognizes the importance of providing a thorough and comprehensive Science education...
The key word in all of that BS is science.
You might be a TOE-retard if you can't tell the difference between cosmology and biology.
You might be a TOE-retard if, when weighing evidence (assuming you ever do), you think mythology > or = experimental evidence.
You might be a TOE-retard if you think you sound intelligent using "whereas" and "therefore be it resolved."
You might be a TOE-retard if you can't tell the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground.
In short,
You might be a TOE-retard if you're a member of the Taylor County School Board.
On a side note, a man displaying an "I won't think in your church if you won't pray in my school" bumper sticker got his car keyed and vandalized here not too long ago. Gotta love living in Florida.
If they're so comfortable with rejecting evidence-supported science, then let's see them start contesting meteorological study (Weeping Deity), the laws of gravity (Theological Downforce) or the nature of light (Judeo-Luminescence).
They know (or the people propping them up know) that those would never fly: most people have enough common sense to realize the way those three work. If the schools can't teach evolution in a way that kids can understand the time periods involved, these people will continue to deceive (and be deceived) to achieve their religious ends.
As far as these nuts go, the ever-decreasing size of their brains, and ever-increasing population lead me to believe that being a fucking idiot is now biologically advantageous.
Law of gravity? Every Pastafarian knows that is an evil lie. His noodly appendages hold us down.
Not really. If all the measurements being given are only accurate to one significant digit, it's more correct to say the object was ten cubits in diameter and thirty cubits in circumference. By saying thirty-one, you'd be implying precision you don't have. One significant figure is about the most accurate any measurement in cubits can be, anyway - everyone's cubit is different.
The lesson here should be that using the Bible as a math textbook is just as misguided as using it as a biology textbook. It's not any more reasonable to criticize the Bible for implying that Pi = 3 than it is to attempt to overturn mathematics because the Bible supposedly implies it. Both sides miss the fact that mathematics is not the subject of the book in the first place. Substitute "Pi = 3" with "bats are birds" and "mathematics" with "biology" and the previous two sentences are equally true.
Besides, there are so many more things in the book that are actually deserving of criticism!
I think someone needs to come up with a word to describe ideas like this: where the level of ignorance and incompetence that would be necessary to come up with such an idea in the first place is at odds with simple matters of day-to-day survival.I propose the word "transhanlonian". As in, on the other side of Hanlon's Razor. Go with that or change my mind.
I read the headline, and my first thought was, "so they are not going to develop over time based on differential levels of success? Or are they just keeping others from doing this?" I guess its some of both.
AJS @ 108, I think I prefer "anti-Maslowan" since as you point out, the incompetence is life threatening.
I know those folks. Except they're my relatives in NW Iowa. Dutch Calvinists are a lot of fun...if you don't want to have fun.
The Taylor county Ignorance Manifesto is just a resolution. But it probably doesn't matter. A huge number of school districts don't teach evolution anyway. The numbers I've seen are at least half in Texas, most of the ones in Arkansas, and Florida, I don't know.
At the local level, in creo areas, they just ignore the state and federal laws. Sort of like how the Sherrif's brother is never going to be arrested for selling his moonshine. They may or may not be teaching creationism but they just forget about evolution.
I really don't know what these wingnuts get out of wallowing and savoring their ignorance. Fundie areas tend to have high rates of poverty and child poverty, teen pregnancy, divorce, low education, and any other socioeconomic ill one can imagine.
PS: From the little I read about the Taylor county schools and school board, sounds like they have way less then the equivalent of a disfunctional 8th grade education. Partaking too much of their own product, I guess.
Of course it is: they make more of the same as themselves much more rapidly than it's possible for an intelligent and well-educated individual to make another of those! They have little or no merit at anything else but, in an environment where they are allowed to be parasites, they don't need to. They also take out the additional insurance of despising the things which more enlightened people regard as meritworthy, just in case they might inadvertently slip into those better habits themselves and lose their low-life advantage.
True; but in the rest of 1 Kings, a lot of measurements are in single digits and even half-digits, so it's fair to presume that that's the accuracy they're after. 7:31, for example: "And the mouth of it within the chapiter and above was a cubit: but the mouth thereof was round after the work of the base, a cubit and an half: and also upon the mouth of it were gravings with their borders, foursquare, not round.". Here we have a half-cubit measurement.
True - but I still find it damned funny :) And it is as valid a criticism as the creation myth, who Cain married, and the bats/birds issue.
As senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said: "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts."
(BTW, cureholder January 8, 2008 10:43 PM, Indiana did not vote to make pi=3.2. A high-school math teacher in 1854 persuaded a state representative to introduce a bill to use a particular (and wrong) method of calculating pi, promising to donate the copyright on the teacher's book to the state. The bill was quietly dropped. If you want a really dumb law, consider Kansas' problem with train crashes at track crossovers. So they passed a law that when one train sees another approaching a crossing, both shall stop until the other one clears.)
#109
> By saying thirty-one, you'd be implying precision you don't have.
That reasoning would only apply if the circumference was deduced from the diameter (or vice versa). Of course, the event in question predated Euclid and company, so there's a legitimate question as to whether they'd know the formula to deduce it thus. More likely, they'd just *measure* the silly thing, in which case it would have been more accurate to give thirty-one.
Evil Mad Scientist Laboratories just came up with a way of making fully edible Flying Spaghetti Monster treats, googly eyes included!
http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/edibleeyes
The Taylor County school board has taken a big step: they've voted to oppose evolution:
I oppose gravity. Can I get that removed from the HS curriculum?
@ 118,
I oppose the teaching of anything that makes my brain hurt, can I go home now?
I too noted the board's confusion about evolution and the big bang theory. I've proposed a modest hypothesis seeking to explain their daftness.
Summary: Big bang theory is heavily supported by multiple lines of evidence. Evolution is heavily supported by multiple lines of evidence. These similarities confounded the Taylor County School Board, who are less intelligent than my local school district's sixth graders.
As I long-time resident of Cobb County, Georgia, I salute you, fucktards of Taylor County, Florida. Keep up the solid work!
ROFLMAO!
Don't I know it. Dutch America is a terrifying place to live/visit*. Although it seems to me that most of my relatives are terrified only of having fun in front of the rest of the family. At least it's a little progress.
*although they throw a mean tulip fest. Hey, isn't a spring flower celebration kind of...pagan?
The Wikipedia entry for "pi" indicates that the value of pi was known to reasonable accuracy roughly 1500 years before Euclid. The Babylonians used the value 25/8 (3.125) and the Egyptians 256/81 (3.16). You'd think that the Israelites would be aware of a formula that was used in Egypt well before the Captivity. Although perhaps slaves weren't in the best position to learn geometry.
You're assuming it really existed to be measured. It might have done but that's hardly guaranteed!
Also it could have been the alleged circularity of the object which was the inaccurate thing. If it was some sort of slightly squashed elliptical or oval shape instead, one of its across dimensions could have been 10 while its circumference was 30.
You'd think that the Israelites would be aware of a formula that was used in Egypt well before the Captivity
assuming captivity occurred....
I don't know where 'Camelot U' is supposed to be located, but even the webcomics understand how this works.
True. You keep coming up with things that I considered mentioning but didn't bother. I think I'll have to make my posts longer.
MAJeff, I recall that the current thinking is that it did not happen, that the pyramids were built by artisans and not slaves.
My buddy Zahi:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Travel/10805.htm
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/847/he1.htm
Oh. And it wouldn't be good if it rained money on Sundays. The 4th/3rd commandment prohibits good Christians from raking it in then. So it'd only be the godless heathens who benefitted.
In short: Downpour of money on Sundays = test from god.
I'm going to go pop some popcorn....
So, has anyone seen the movie "Idiocracy"? It was kind of stupid, sometimes funny - but mainly a bit scary to think about. Especially when you think that these people ARE breeding like rabbits...
Also, as a(nother) response to:
Would someone please explain to me why the southern states are such champions of pig ignorance?
I am from Texas, and it seems that being stupid (at least as a female) is considered "hot" by a lot of guys. I know it sounds, well, stupid, but I knew quite a few smart girls in high school who dumbed themselves down for (really dumb) guys. Also, apparently being a "Southern Belle" equates to acting borderline brain-damaged but having a really obnoxious accent. I never got the "I want to be with the dumb guy, so I'll act dumb" thing. Why not date the smart guy and have actual conversations about something other than "huntin' and fishin' and bis ass trucks"?
Ugh.
Most fundie apologists seem to reconcile 1 Kings 7:23 ("pi = 3") with reality by claiming that the 30 cubit circumference was measured on the inside, while the 10 cubit diameter was measured on the outside. That gives a wall thickness of .22535178 cubits, or about 11.3cm (assuming, without any grounds whatsoever, that a biblical cubit is exactly equal to half a modern metre) so is in reasonable agreement with 1 Kings 7:26.
It's amazing what bollocks people can come up with, if they've nothing better to do.
Now I know how Carl Hiassen keeps churning out tales of south Florida insanity that are so gut-bustingly funny. He doesn't have to make shit up.
@136: ... the 30 cubit circumference was measured on the inside,...
Okay, I can see that, but wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier to measure a circumference on the outside; like, wrap a tape-measure around it? Inside measure would be pretty awkward. Just sayin'
This article really got the angry in my blood up. Is it too much to ask that the people who decide what our children are learning be at least as intelligent and informed on science as an elementary school student?
I'm surprised that no one has noticed that Taylor County is home to the Cracker Homestead Museum.
Not only is the board a buncha crackers, but apparently they're proud of it.
On Highway 19, wherever the hell that is. They don't have a web site, but they are mentioned here.
I should start going to their Sunday services and preaching about how their beliefs are illogical and their ideas of god are juvenile and unreasonable. If they want to bring their stupid religious views into our secular educational system, then we should be equally allowed to go into their system and bring about our rational views. Perhaps something as simple as "here's a high school biology book, read it from end to end like you read the bible, and then we'll talk". If these assholes ever went to town on a biology book like they do on their bibles, then we'd actually have some educated people questioning their idiotic beliefs.
My G-Ma used to live off Hwy 19, north of Tampa/St Pete. That's where everyone is in the Drive 35 Club (i.e. 35 mph in a subdivision, 35 mph on the highways, etc.)
Has the mystery been solved? Could these be the type upstanding citizens that educated republican leaders like Huckabee, Romney and Paul? Hmmmm...could be!
Yeah, I don't think so. We'd have people who could recite little bits pulled from various not-too-closely related sections of the text.
I have always loved this great country because unlike most others (ie developing countries), the united states is one of the few countries where the common person has a say in the government. But with this evolution/creation debate, i am beginning to think that's not such a good idea.
We have come to a point where the uneducated or educated and persistently ignorant are trying to dictate what should be taught as science in schools.
I mean when you read what most creationists write, you realize these people did not get the full benefit of their highschool science classes.
America is coming to a point where rational debate is no longer easy to ignore and the religious are giving it their last fight. This is to hoping they loose
so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the universe was formed.
Why would anyone want to do that, given that evolution has nothing to do with how the universe was formed? That comment underlies the very core of the problem with the anti-evolutionists.
I've spent a great deal of time in Taylor county and it is very RURAL, I mean like you hear the soundtrack to Deliverance everywhere you go, type of rural. Beautiful area though and great fishing.
"so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the universe was formed."
Why would anyone want to do that, given that evolution has nothing to do with how the universe was formed? That comment underlies the very core of the problem with the anti-evolutionists.
Yeah, the core problem is they don't come from monkeys.
"I think they could be teaching a lie," Oscar Howard, superintendent of Taylor County Public Schools said of evolution. "There's not a place on me where they took the tail off."
See? That's what all the whereases and therefores is about.
Be it resolved, whereas therefore, so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the monkeys was formed.
"America is coming to a point where rational debate is no longer easy to ignore and the religious are giving it their last fight"
There is no "last fight" with the religious. There is only "faith"
They really need to get over their pathological hatred of monkeys.
Apparently, they're not the only ones who need to do so.
Wild monkeys plus young male humans with lasers--what could possibly go wrong?
> read it from end to end like you read the bible
Dude, they don't even do that with the bible. Leastways, I've never met a devout, practising christian who admitted that they had sat down and read the whole damned thing, from start to finish, every word of every line of every page, cover to cover. No, I don't go around asking everyone if they are christian and have done so, but if the conversation ever rolls around to religion I do, and they haven't.
"It's the most perfect book in existence! It contains the answers to the deepest questions of the universe! Provides hope, courage, and meaning to everyone who has one! It has the greatest story every told! But you want me to actually crack it open and take a look for myself? Oh no, never that. Anything but that."
I have, back in high school when I was still a Christian, even all the boring begat parts. I'm an atheist, now, but there was a several year time span that it took for me to break out of the indoctrination where I could have answered yes to your question.
I have, back in high school when I was still a Christian, even all the boring begat parts. I'm an atheist, now, but there was a several year time span that it took for me to break out of the indoctrination where I could have answered yes to your question.
same. part of confirmation classes.
I know that the very first comment and several others hit this point already, but Jesus Fucking Christ on a Stick how can people be so goddamned dumb?
Three times total they confuse the theory of evolution with theories about the creation of the universe. These people are on a school board, yet aren't educated enough to grasp that the ToE only deals with living creatures, and not cosmology! So self-centered that they can't make a distinction between life on earth and the entirety of the fucking universe!
I tried to think up something witty, but reading that item bruised my brain.
"It's the most perfect book in existence! It contains the answers to the deepest questions of the universe! Provides hope, courage, and meaning to everyone who has one! It has the greatest story every told! But you want me to actually crack it open and take a look for myself? Oh no, never that. Anything but that."
Yeah really they read all kinds of other books. How come not the greatest book of all eternity? Maybe because it's too confusing and it's better to have the clergy explain the really important parts to them. Lol.
Some points to remember:
to these people "The universe" isn't very big (it's probably still a sphere on whose inner surface stars etc are studded), so it makes sense to them
All evolutionary science, that demonstrates long ages, and materialistic processes (processes that require no gods), is anathema to them, from cosmology, astrophysics, abiogenesis, evolutionary biology/pshychology etc...
Cosmologists and astrophysicists themselves have adopted the "E" word to describe the change they observe in their field - evolution of the Big Bang's earliest moments, the particles, stars, galaxies,
it's intellectually more satisfying to lump everything that you despise into one neat little package that you can lambast - including cultural things such as gay rights, foreign policy, communism. They blame everything on one word - evolution, which to them is more or less synonymous with Satan...
Several theories? Why do I doubt that they're interested in any theories (sic) besides "Christian God did it"?
It would at least be a touch better if they were supporting Iroquois creationism. The thought of living on a giant turtle appeals to me.
Yes there is.How do you even begin to deal with a supposed adult who denies the existence of a part of their own body, for crying out loud?
...so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the universe was formed
I'll be writing on behalf of our lord Cthulhu. Just as long as they don't present those noodle-headed pastafarians' theory...
Humans have a remnant of our tailed days, the coccyx.
This is easily viewable on a diagram or x-ray of a human skeleton.
Occasionally humans are born with an atavistic tail.
The Taylor county school system seems to be a self perpetuating idiocracy.
Conflation, iteration, that's what they scream about,
It's persecution that they luv.
Bare-faced lies, clouded eyes, that's where they are devout,
It's persecution that they luv.
Still they are dumb as rocks, got sandbox, and coccyx, there's no doubt,
It's persecution that they need.
(sing to the tune of 'Popsicles, Icesickles.' ? 8]X
(Cuttlefish hasn't put in an appearance of late)
You see what I was trying to say #144 and 152. Look at how #s 153 and 154 had to go through reading the whole bible end-to-end as part of the confimration process. I wasn't fully immersed in that myself, but had a decent enough idea because of certain misguided teachers and camp counselors that I had. Luckily enough, it was easy to escape from the indoctrination because I always liked and accepted science, particularly biology, above any spiritual nonsense. The sheer logic and amazing discoveries that are had by science are so vastly more fulfilling then giving oneself to an imaginary idea or being. What these unfortunate and uneducated people obtain is an empty story void of reality and substance. Why the hell should I care what a 2000 year old megalomaniacal jew in some backwater part of the middle east cared about, or for that matter some what a desperate and bearded man with a much older wife and a submission complex, or a bald man who insisted that he was in touch with the inner force of the universe and in fact was perfection, or.... One could see how this crap gets really tedious. Most important is that I can look at a bird, any common bird (a rock dove for example -- common here in Hawaii) and realize that they are dinosaurs (cladist anybody?) just as I'd wish I had encountered when I was a young child. Not every dinosaur was annhilated during the Cretaceous mass extinction, and the proof is in the feathered, flying little rascals. How can religion even approach such fulfillment.
@Helioprogenus. I could be entirely misinterpreting your comment, i.e. wishing you had known about. . .versus wishing the information was available. I am addressing the former interpretation and apologize if I'm 'preaching to the choir.' Gerhard Heilmann (sp?) wrote 'the book' on bird evolution more than a century ago. His conclusion was that birds could not be descended from dinos because the group of dinos from which they would be derived lacked a collar bone. John Ostrum, in the 1970's found the fragile missing collar bones and brought the plausibility of dino ancestry for the birds back into vogue. Meanwhile, Willi Hennig's 'Phylogenetic Systematics' was not translated into English until 1970, consequently there were comparatively few cladistic taxonomic papers in English until the late 70's. And computer technology of that time and much later, could not handle large character sets- see early versions of hennig '86. The information you were pining for may not have been there for your childhood- It certainly post-dates mine.
How do you even begin to deal with a supposed adult who denies the existence of a part of their own body, for crying out loud?
I don't know. I don't know if he's even denying it.
"There's not a place on me where they took the tail off."
Hmm, I'm not sure what he's saying. It doesn't make enough sense. I mean, technically he's right: there isn't a place on him where they took the tail off. Shrug.
"There's not a place on me where they took the tail off."
Literal interpretation, he still has his tail (and has outed himself as a demon). As part of the usual christian paranoia, who are 'they?'
"huntin' and fishin' and bis ass trucks"?
My apologies, I only speak English and studied a few other languages. I figured out hunting and fishing, but what the hell is a "bis ass truck?"
As part of the usual christian paranoia, who are 'they?'
I don't know. Probably Charles Darwin and some peppered moths, or possibly some monkeys or something. I don't know.
While spell checking my own blog post I found this (directly from the PDF of the minutes - Pg. 7):
Don't creationists use spell check, or the find/replace feature in word processing programs?
I mean, cdesign proponentists? Geez.
I guess everything will just stop evolving so that Taylor county can teach good science... GEEEEZZZZZZZZ what a bunch of nimrods..
dogmeat(r)ib,
You only have to substitute one letter (typo) to figure it out!
Dear Sir, I wish to complain on the strongest possible terms about the previous comments on this webpage describing the "pig ignorance" of creationists. This is extraordinarily insulting to the pigs. Many of my best friends are pigs, and very few of them are as ignorant as creationists. Why, this is the very face of enlightenment, comparatively. Yours sincerely, Citizen Z (Esq.)
Sometimes. Letting people get away with stuff != being polite, in my view.
I'm not disagreeing that some people are, well, fucktards. But not allowing them to provoke me into screaming this in their face is not the same as agreeing to be a polite doormat, or to roll over because confrontation is rude (it need not be, even when 100% adversarial).
It is partially a matter of style, and partially a matter of maintaining the upper hand. I want them to swear at and about me, and not me about them.
But in no way did I mean that you need to be silent when people publicly flaunt their ignorance, most especially in a way that threatens the education of children.
Why is Florida the Home of the Idiot?
I'm going to take a serious stab at answering this question:
no income tax.
some other states that have no income tax:
Alaska, South Dakota, Texas...
a pattern emerges?
you might think that a state like Washington might tend to trip up this line of thinking (since they most certainly aren't associated with backwards thinking school districts), until you recall where the Disinformation Institute's headquarters are (Seattle).
Nevada! Wyoming! Tennessee!
New Hampshire, too, has no state income tax. Live Free or Die, dude!
Oh give it up, Eaton. You're just a concern troll who favors dishonesty over honesty. As such, you're an enabler of the fuckwits/fucktards.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
WTF?
--------
WHEREAS AJS has written comment 111, THEREFORE IT BE RESOLVED that he be nominated for the Order of the Molly.
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Correct, but you mangled John Ostrom, and Hennig86. :-)
A bit less -- Danish original in 1925, UK edition 1926, US edition 1927.
Hennig's 1950 book was translated in 1966.
No, cdesign proponentsists. One of very few English words with a ts in the middle.
Personally, I am looking forward to the time when cdesign proponentsists will be looked back on and laughed at with Nelson-esque derision.
Could I suggest a fund raiser for the inevitable lawsuit -- a Spaghetti dinner ?
Most people seem to confuse evolution with the Theory of Evolution (namely, Darwin's). While the former is an observation which, after so many years, has been established as a firm sacientific fact, the second is an attempt at explaining the observed facts. I don't think anyone in his right mind would say that Gravitational Theory is "just a theory", and yet that is exactly what they are trying to do with Darwin's Theory of Evolution.
What worries me the most, however, is by what processes are the persons who serve in these Boards of Education chosen that allows persons with obviously no knowledge of science to make such important decisions.
WTF?
--------
WHEREAS AJS has written comment 111, THEREFORE IT BE RESOLVED that he be nominated for the Order of the Molly.
--------
Correct, but you mangled John Ostrom, and Hennig86. :-)
A bit less -- Danish original in 1925, UK edition 1926, US edition 1927.
Hennig's 1950 book was translated in 1966.
No, cdesign proponentsists. One of very few English words with a ts in the middle.
Most people seem to confuse evolution with the Theory of Evolution (namely, Darwin's). While the former is an observation which, after so many years, has been established as a firm sacientific fact, the second is an attempt at explaining the observed facts. I don't think anyone in his right mind would say that Gravitational Theory is "just a theory", and yet that is exactly what they are trying to do with Darwin's Theory of Evolution.
What worries me the most, however, is by what processes are the persons who serve in these Boards of Education chosen that allows persons with obviously no knowledge of science to make such important decisions.