Here's your brain on religion: Tom Cruise babbles about scientology. It's depressing schlock — the man is so full of himself, yet all he says are empty platitudes and non-sequiturs and scientology slang. It's the perfect portrayal of a fellow who really isn't very intelligent, but thinks he is.
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To be fair, the video is edited so that Tom's outrageous laughter is cut right in the middle of his speech, making him appear loony.
Which he is.
Man, I can't stand him. He can't act. He can't think. I don't find him attractive.
I went to go see this earlier today-- my thought being that perhaps Cruise was going to say something amazingly stupid, or interestingly weird... what a letdown! I think I made it all of two or three minutes in before I turned it off. His entire vocabulary seems to be constructed of glossy phrases, platitudes, and soundbites.
What a creep!
Here's a representative sample of Cruise's "insightful" commentary:
"So for me it really is KSW, because it's, it's something that uh, I don't mince
words with that, you know, with anything that LRH does, but that policy has
really gone, pffft, boy, and eh er ah there's a time I went through and said you
know what...when I read it, you know uh, I just went, phoo, this is it, this is
exactly it."
Uh....cuckoo...cuckoo...cuckoo....
Really creepy. Weirdly like watching the performance of a wooden mannequin in some really bad B-movie in which it's become possessed, come to life, and is stalking the residents of a terrified sorority house with a long, sharp, bloody knife... 'Cept in this one, it's a really, really, incredibly dull, boring mannequin, and mostly just says incredibly stupid things, until your eyes glaze over, and you start wishing someone really would just stab you, and get it over with.
Tom Cruise in a 2005 interview:
While I was getting my undergraduate degree in biology, Cruise was being paid to dance in his underwear in front of a camera.
That announcer reminds me of the "Would you like to know more?" guy from the Starship Troopers movie. How fitting.
It occurred to me a couple of minutes in (and shortly before I bailed out of watching any more) was that a lot of people in this country are watching the same clip and thinking that the problem with what he's saying is that he has the WRONG wacko beliefs!
3 bloggers I read have linked to that video today and I still have not been able to watch it.
About 20 seconds in, the compulsion is too great and I just have to press "stop". Cannot help myself, sorry...
"Really creepy. Weirdly like watching the performance of a wooden mannequin in some really bad B-movie..."
I've seen that movie. It's called "Pin," and it sucks as bad as the Cruise vid!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095871/plotsummary
The backgroud music is fitting. Tom Cruise is on an impossible mission...to say anything of substance.
That was silly. Tom Cruise probably makes more in a year than you will make in your lifetime.
Jeez, I was hoping to hear the story of Xenu.
Cruise says that we can rehabilitate criminals, except for Scientologists obviously.
Cruise is mentally cruising if he expects us to believe that he can't go on vacation.
@raven: "That was silly. Tom Cruise probably makes more in a year than you will make in your lifetime."
Tom Cruise is silly. How much money he makes doesn't make him less silly. Now, if only he'd stick to being silly while he performs like the good little dancing monkey he is and gets paid to be instead of being silly in public. If only...
I read a bit recently that Will Smith is also into Scientology. I'm sure a bunch of people here will say they never liked him as an actor, but I definitely liked some of his stuff (didn't see I, Robot, because I was 100% certain it would be all wrong and I didn't want to screw with my memory of the source material like that). Just really frustrating how these actors and actresses seem so susceptible. I also read that Cruise might have made a play for Jennifer Garner before Katie Holmes, but Garner wasn't having any of it. You go Jennifer!
I thought this was a pretty cool article though:
"8 Celebrities You Didn't Know Were Geeks"
http://www.cracked.com/article_15753_8-celebrities-you-didnt-know-were-…
@11: and that matters why?
Scientology pulls in millions (billions?) every year, does that make it good?
It's the perfect portrayal of a fellow who really isn't very intelligent, but thinks he is.
As such, it's his best acting to date.
I also read that Cruise might have made a play for Jennifer Garner before Katie Holmes, but Garner wasn't having any of it.
Scarlett Johansson too, allegedly.
celebrities are especially vulnerable to scientology because it's a self-help cult and celebrities are typically self-absorbed.
If anyone is curious to see the full, uncut interview, you can see it here
@raven: "That was silly. Tom Cruise probably makes more in a year than you will make in your lifetime."
Tom Cruise is silly. How much money he makes doesn't make him less silly. Now, if only he'd stick to being silly while he performs like the good little dancing monkey he is and gets paid to be instead of being silly in public. If only...
Yeah, but come on: have you seen Reginald's bland, uninspiring underwear collection? Feh.
Comment #19 links to some sort of stupid "joke" edit.
[C]elebrities are especially vulnerable to scientology because it's a self-help cult and celebrities are typically self-absorbed.
Agreed, but I think that would be more accurate if you substituted "actors" for "celebrities."
I've never understood why people who are paid to feel and emote are held to be moral and lifestyle exemplars. Analytical skills are not required skills for actors.
So what does everyone else here do when you drive past accidents, considering that only Scientologists can actually help?
I've heard schizophrenics that made more sense.
Really.
Bad, I just pull over and direct traffic until a Scientologist shows up to peform KSW.
Indeed, and in that respect, wholly similar to just about every other fervently religious person I've ever seen. They always think they "know" some truth that the majority of the planet just "doesn't get," and they also "know" that this truth will solve all the world's problems. So they spend the rest of their lives spreading their ineffectual (at best) nonsense. He reminds me very much of the pastor of Jesus Camp.
Celebrities are frequent victims of Scientology because they are targeted. A great deal of effort is made to pander to their egos. Scientology grunts doing free landscape maintenance? Sure, whatever works. It is just a marketing expense for the business. At least that is one explanation I came across on the Internets.
I object to allowing this cult the status of calling it a religion. Their model is much closer to that of organised crime. International organised crime, at that.
here is the rest of it:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Nomoresci
I watched it all the way through, and found it interesting that he took ten minutes to say nothing at all, and yet seemed as if he was conveying vital, important information. I wonder if Cruise was told to remain non-specific.
When he talks on and on about how he's there "to help people," one of the things he's probably talking about is "touch assist," a creepy pseudoscientific form of trauma therapy which involves something like tapping on the forehead. It doesn't work, of course, but scientologists actually had the gall to barge their way in to Ground Zero at the WTC to help the victims (by further victimizing them.)
The first James Randi Amazing Meeting had a speaker who had been one of the scientology leaders at their Sea Org headquarters for something like 20 years. Scientologists believe they have skills, wisdom, and maturity above and beyond "ordinary" people. They are also discouraged from mixing with said ordinary folk.
According to his story, this guy's deconversion came about because:
1.) He started listening to talk radio, and realized that the people in Scientology were no different than people outside of Scientology.
2.) He wanted the church to take the "Randi Challenge" and win the money and publicity by having those at High Level demonstrate their paranormal abilities. He found out, to his surprise, that not only could nobody actually do anything themselves when it came right down to it, but nobody else wanted to get the shadowy Higher Ups who did have the abilities to take the challenge. It was almost as if ...as if ... deep down they knew it was bullshit.
Hey, at least Jewel is into String theory.
From the original article:
The paragraphs before and after that are equally priceless. She is "too clever for pop music". She should be a Hollywood actreess (I think she got to play one later on). Good for them.
Wow, did that video *mean* anything? Between the annoyingly repetitive Mission Impossible music, and Tom Cruise's gaping maw blathering on about something, I don't think I was moved to do anything other than press Alt+f4.
Of course they target media stars and other celebs. How better to create a veneer of respectability and desirability than by having an array of spokespersons who already occupy the limelight and who already command the attention - and, more significantly, capture the imagination - of the general public?
(Depressing, isn't it?)
So if you see a terrible crash on the highway ahead, and you come up on it and find out it's a van load of Scientologists, you ... what? Keep driving?
...
Man, Tom Cruise has a really unique laugh.
Nothing Cruise said was as strange as the Scientology core beliefs. The earth had an atomic war 75 million years ago. Billions of Thetans were killed. Their ghosts haunt us to this day.
You may be infested with scores of Thetan ghosts, sort of psychic vampires. For a few tens of thousands of dollars, Scientology will get rid of them. Cheap at the price. Would you like to know more?
#14
I think the end Scientology message of 'You can be a God' appeals to people like celebrities.
Also, Scientology heavily targets them because A) They have a lot of money to spend on overpriced brainwashing, and 2) They have large followings.
I find it hilarious that someone who so publically railed against phsycological drugs and treatment is in such dire need of them.
Because who needs first aid or CPR when they can get their past-life engrams purged instead?
Right. These crackpots have the gall to call psychology a "pseudoscience" while claiming all psychological problems can be blamed on the ghosts of these Thetans?
(Quick question: Why would a race of space aliens, who destroyed themselves 75 million years ago, name itself after a Greek letter?)
Ok, never mind that. Now, wouldn't the ghosts of the beings who've been haunted by these Thetan ghosts for the past 75 million years begin to outnumber the Thetan ghosts themselves? I'd think the accumulated resentment of all those haunted spirits would be more than a match for the collective angst of all those Thetan ghosts. Surely a Ghost War is imminent, one the Thetan ghosts can't possibly win.
That's it. Screw the degree in Psych. Screw the Master's. I'm not going back to school. I must be able to make a buck out of this somehow, while relieving the world of all its emotional and spiritual woes. Yep. Gotta do it. It's a calling.
Here's a great video of the scientology TRs (training routines). If you ever wonder why Tom and Katie are so wooden, this might explain it. This is apparently only the first level of "training". I imagine by the time your a super-scientol like Tommy, you've gotten pretty good at becoming an automaton. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-799954787514590907
Is he sober ? I mean, was he on something or is this his normal condition ?
When I drink a bit too much and smoke pot, I think I could find myself saying things such as :
"And I have to tell you something. I really i-i-it is you know it's rough and tumble. Ah it's wild and wooly and it's a blast. It's a blast. It really is fun. Because, damn it there's nothing better . . . than to going out there and fighting the fight and suddenly you see pwoo things are better."
... and believe I'm really saying something meaninful.
Honestly, was he sober or is it that Scientology really has psychoactive detrimental effects ?
Oh? And this happened 75 million years ago? I don't think the Hawaiian islands started forming until about 65 million years ago [1].
The Canaries are much younger, with the oldest being at most 20 million years old.
Seems like a deal-breaker to me, but then, I'm not plagued by Thetans.
Not anymore.
WANT TO LEARN MORE?
"Bad, I just pull over and direct traffic until a Scientologist shows up to perform KSW."
I wish there were a way to signal them in situations like this: it seems awful cruel to the victims to have to just wait around till one happens by.
Are you sure PZ's original post doesn't also? Maybe there's a video in which Cruise actually makes sense, and this is what's left when all the sense is edited out.
Nah.
How about Commissioner Gordon's batsignal? They're batty enough it just might work.
I'm sorry. I couldn't finish it.
Where does he get his drugs and where can I obtain a shitton of them?
*Shitton: 1) adj, A very very very very large amount. 2) A unit of measurement so vast as to be incomprehensible to any mortal, deity, or demigod.
How sad. I pity him.
I'm sorry, Inky. A Shitton is less than a Zeusload.
You skeptics disappoint me when you condemn things so totally without even investigating them. Now, I have investigated scientology and I certainly don't agree with it, but I can see the appeal. Tom Cruise is not that stupid. Just like other religions have some good things in them, so does scientology. It is a clever mix of some good psychology and philosophy and some other things. I do find scientology a lot more appealing than the monotheistic religions. But there are also some awful things about it and the whole package and how it is presented is a big problem.
Also, Cruise comes across oddly in this video because it is taken out of context and things are poorly explained, not because he is so stupid.
I just think sometimes it is worth trying to understand where these people are coming from and not just be so instantly arrogant.
Re #31
experiments?
Sorry. Tags.
I meant
Alchemical experiments?
I do so love the "taken out of context" dodge. Almost never do the people who make this claim supply a context that would make sense of whatever it is that they're defending.
In this case, this appears to be a motivational video produced by the Church of Scientology itself for its own internal use. That is the context of Cruise's remarks. Is there some meta-context that makes what Cruise said meaningful or even coherent? If so, what might it be?
I'm reminded of the jokes that claimed to provide a context for Jerry Falwell's post-9/11 comments blaming all the death and distruction on "the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and lesbians . . .". For example,
I'm amazed so many people could sit through the whole thing. I bailed out in less than a minute.
What the heck is a KSW? when I first read it I thought it said KFC. Mmmm, the colonels chicken. What were we talking about again?
Cheers,
Ray
Sure, if you put Tom's blithering "in context" you're in the lobby of an outpatient lobotomy clinic. Suddenly, all is clear!
Next?
#49 Terry Says
"I just think sometimes it is worth trying to understand where these people are coming from and not just be so instantly arrogant."
Please Terry explain where Tom is coming from for us, and what might possibly be a single good aspect of scientology.
If you want to get a feel for scientology, I highly recommend "bare faced messiah" by Russell Miller. It's downloadable as a PDF from all over the web. As you read it, ask yourself whether L. Ron was a greater or lesser bullsh*t artist than Muhammad or Joseph Smith.
Cruise: "I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Scientologist, and it's something you have to earn."
Nah. It's something you have to BUY.
About $300,000 or so I'm told.
Mao much?
I think you'd have to see a similarly unscripted(?) presentation by him from before he became a scientologist in order to determine whether scientology damaged him significantly or whether he was always that way (and hence was a natural mark for the scientology scam). It would also help to have a post-scientology sample of him wittering about something other than scientology, in case it really is only the subject matter which is to blame.
I object to allowing this cult the status of calling it a religion. Their model is much closer to that of organised crime. International organised crime, at that. How exactly is that different from the catholic church, the New Life Church, or any of the rest of them?
Two other things:
[1] I read somewhere that TC loved scientology because they taught him to read. Think about that for a minute. You live in the richest most powerful nation on the planet. What was his excuse for not being able to read? So, yes, I'd say he's stupid.
[2] Grudging admiration for the cynicism of LRH - if you're going to get into the religion business, make sure you're getting tithes from people earning upwards of $15M a year.
Pz, you. you know you don't understand because of your ethics, you need to know, you know that you...as you drive past an accident, that you are the only one that can help... you need to force your ethics into them. Go on holiday and just, just be happy and good because you know....you want too and tha-HAAHAHAHAHAHA...because thats what it means. And until you understand, your in or are you out?...Period
Creationism and Scientology are gold mines for researchers investigating the Dunning-Kruger effect
Better watch it before it gets sued off the web.
Jesus, PZ - be quiet! You trying to get sued again?!?!?
L. Ron Hubbard was a genius!
And I mean that...he was!
Here was a man who started himself a money-making scheme, and disguised it as a cult, so it had the additional benefit of being tax-exempt. (OK, except in Germany, and a couple of other places. But they're working on it...)
Here in Minneapolis, there's a Church of $cientology on Nicolet Avenue. The place is seriously shabby-looking, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone go into, or come out of the place. It sorta looks like a soup kitchen that ran out of soup. It's pretty funny.
One would think that if they were such a fabulous organization, they could afford to spend some green to spiff up the joint a bit.
Hubbard thought calculus didn't work
Check Phil's post on it:
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2007/02/23/scientology-nuttiness-par…
"It is a clever mix of some good psychology and philosophy and some other things" #49
Where's the good psychology and philosophy?
Here in Minneapolis, there's a Church of $cientology on Nicolet Avenue. The place is seriously shabby-looking, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone go into, or come out of the place. It sorta looks like a soup kitchen that ran out of soup. It's pretty funny.
There's one on Beacon Street here in Boston. Not shabby, particularly in that Back Bay neighborhood.
I was honestly kind of surprised the first time I saw it. It hadn't occurred to me that they have actual congregations and services and shit, but there they were, a group of well-dressed crazy people going to Saturday evening services. *shudder*
Ugh. Can he form a coherent sentence AT ALL? I'm going to force myself to watch it all, although in 30-second intervals.
Instantly arrogant? Instantly arrogant? Does it ever occur to you that we HAVE studied Scientology and found it to be a load of crap psycho-babble, pseudoscience/pseudo-religion cult written by a poorly trained charlatan?
"Woo. Woo woo. Woo, woo woo woowoo. Woowoowoo woo woowoo woo."
What vacuous feelgood ego-stroking shite. Easy to see how it appeals to the vain and arrogant. Certainly pushes that "you're special" button.
It'll be interesting to see how quickly Tom Cruise fades as their public face now that they've apparently suckered Will Smith. I expect another year or so of concentrated extortion/brainwashing of Smith and they'll put Cruise on the shelf. You don't see them waving Travolta around much anymore.
Ok, without wishing to condone his speech...
Amongst that drivel and pseudo-jargon I detected an admirable sentiment. I don't know if it's the truth or part of the brainwashing, but I felt he really meant it when he spoke about doing good deeds and not just pissing his fortune up the wall, like I imagine many of his peers doing. Yeah, um, then the maniacal laughter started...
You've got to give Cruise some credit. He's never made anything quite like Battlefield Earth. Or perhaps that should be "He hasn't yet made . . .".
Notice how Tom just babbles and doesn't finish a sentence. Someone on another comment board suggested that he suffers from logorrhea.
"Logorrhoea is a symptom of an underlying illness and should be treated by a medical professional. Several of the possible causes of logorrhoea respond well to medication."
Oops, Scientologists don't take psychiatric medication...
Can somebody please tell me about the good things Cruise does for the world? I mean, really. I would be more impressed with scientology if I saw all the celebrities who practice it performing great feats of charity.
Maybe I'm not watching E.T. often enough, or Cruise isn't channeling another kind of E.T. often enough, but I'm missing all the altruism. Anything? Somebody?
Among the reasons I try not to miss the Stephanie Miller show is the contribution made by voice actor Jim Ward, who frequently performs a brutal impersonation of Tom Cruise, live from Oprah's couch. I can't think about Tom Cruise without hearing the sound of couch springs, maniacal laughter and cuckoo clocks. Ward really knows his $cientoogy jargon.
Re Scientology having good points, no, hardly. Even against other 'religions', which I generally hold in contempt, it's a loser on a massive scale. Its recruiting practices are a hard sell to the point that it's faced extortion and fraud charges over them (see Belgium), its fee schedule for its 'audits' and 'course materials' is exorbitant to the point that would have made the most libertine of the popes blush, and it's generally one of the more damaging of the mental viruses--both to your pocket book and your peace of mind. Giving people 'coupons' for free 'stress tests' to be administered by these people (as did one Will Smith recently for one of his movie crews) is a bit like giving people free injections of Yersinia Pestis. I consider the lot of them generally despicable.
This is an interesting coincidence.
Yesterday I went to look something up at Wikipedia, and the article of the day was The Alaska Mental Health Enabling Act, an innocuous bill designed to establish federally run mental health facilities in Alaska (in 1956, then a US Territory.)
The wingnuttia of the day went ballistic, saying it was the "American Siberia" and that it was the prelude to the Great Liberal Traitors (who even then secretly ran the country) to establish concentration camps to house the True Amurricans in Soviet-style re-education camps.
In any case this was part of the genesis of the COS' long animus towards psychiatry, and continues to be used as 'evidence' to this day.
It was so bad that the bill was derailed until that notorious liberal pinko traitor Barry Goldwater got it passed....
Check out the linked cartoon in the article. Priceless.
Plus ça change, baby...
Another good source is Jon Atack's "A Piece of Blue Sky." I highly recommend it - it's a fascinating read and you can even get it online.
Whenever I think about Tom Cruise's looniness, I remember this cute little video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX7LHeAB8aw
Amongst that drivel and pseudo-jargon I detected an admirable sentiment. I don't know if it's the truth or part of the brainwashing, but I felt he really meant it when he spoke about doing good deeds and not just pissing his fortune up the wall, like I imagine many of his peers doing. Yeah, um, then the maniacal laughter started...
Yeah, but compare what he's doing to the work of, say, Elizabeth Taylor, Bob Geldoff, Bono, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, or even Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie who are at least trying to use their celebrity to highlight issues of poverty in parts of Africa. Instead, we get railing against anti-depressant meds.
Back in 1978 or so I was passing the Scientology office on 46th Street and Broadway. It was over the Howard Johnson's there. A cute girl at a table covered with Dianetics books was selling same. I was a bit drunk and had just smoked a joint do I went over. I wanted to get a copy for free, even back then I knew it was a load of crap. She said I could have one if I'd take a tour. What the heck I figured. So I joined a group of people and went in. We were lectured in various offices. They showed us the machine (I forget the name) and kept moving us from room to room, splitting us up into smaller groups.
The final destination was an auditorium, there we were asked for a "donation" to watch a film and another lecture. I refused and they ushered me to a side door that was an exit to the street. I never got my free copy. I guess I didn't measure up. I wasn't too sad. But they really blew my buzz.
They might be working on it in Germany, just not very successfully. Last month at a conference of the ministers of the interior they decided to collect all the information required for a banning process.
Scientology, true to their style, hijacked an online vote on that subject at a newspaper's website. They emailed their members and told them where to go and which option to vote (for all those who can't read German).
I just ripped the audio of him cackling - that will prove useful in the future.
I've just got to say, the voice-over at the end sounds like a bad 50's documentary narrator.
Scientology, true to their style, hijacked an online vote on that subject at a newspaper's website. They emailed their members and told them where to go and which option to vote (for all those who can't read German).
Kind of like we did to the fundie radio station yesterday? The problem here is with taking internet polls seriously, not specifically with the actions of freeping them. Scientology is fucked. No problem with that. Their SLAPP suits are vile. Freeping a poll is pretty minor.
Seeing as I fit several of the criteria for medical diagnosis via video, I can only point you here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
I don't see Cruise as any king of do-gooder; I see him as a disciple of his religion. His mindset is typical of fanatics in all religions: they think they have found the secret to life because they *focus their attention really hard on an objective*. Being so focused makes them feel motivated, alive, goal oriented, productive! It gives them their edge!
They're like children, playing with their emotions like kids in a sand box. In the end, the effort he puts into the endeavor will simply wear him out. He'll become an old fruitcake who knows he's an aberration but he won't have the honesty to admit it. You can already see it happening in his eyes. He is giving in to fanaticism
He's a poster-boy. An ego-maniacal joke bucking for messiah. He gets off when people stare at him...that laugh, that hideous LAUGH...he's friggin' crazy.
HUH???
@IM:
that was indeed hilarious.
from that one, I ran into this one, which, while not as clever (and perhaps more appropriate for the UD crowd), I still couldn't help but laugh at; the guy does such a good cut job on it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9c3YhDLpmU&feature=related
Boy ... I can remember when Tom Cruise was coo... wait a sec ... no I can't. Now that I think about it, he was always total sod.
heh, this one might be even better, but it wouldn't make any sense unless you saw the original interview with Oprah/cruise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUAZCc12ZZQ&NR=1
Wow. I watched the video and assumed that it must have been edited by some smug little geek to make Tom Cruise look stupider and less coherent than usual -- pretty unnecessary, I thought. After watching the full length version I see that it is in fact a serious tribute, edited by Scientologists. These selections were apparently chosen to present Cruise at his best.
Ichthyic, those were awesome.
all credit to IM for linking to the starting vid to begin with.
made my night. I laughed more than Tom Cruise.
Thanks IM.
Wow. He didn't say [i]anything[/i]. At least in creationist vids, they actually try to give info, even if it's complete lies. Cruise was so repetative, yet he said absolutly nothing.
"We are currently performing site maintenance. Be cool - we'll be back 100% in a bit."
Found this posted on Nomoresci's Youtube site that #29 posted. Were all 6 videos of this posted on there earlier? Because they're only a few up there now. Those kooks are nutty enough to be messing with it too.
Amazing. They're back up. But the site is still under "maintenance"....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBDDOMfcx8I
I suspect the scientology that every day paying members see is very different from the scientology that provides fake wives for celebrities who don't want to be outed. I'm pretty sure for example that they aren't going to hold Cruise captive until he dies in their care like they have done to less prestigious members.
Venger, that was brilliant, particularly the end.
"I suppose I could believe that if I were invested enough"
"don't worry, you will be."
LOL
funny 'cause it's true.
A few years ago, at a science fiction convention, I got into a conversation with one of the author guests of honour about L. Ron Hubbard. Eventually, the conversation turned to Scientology and he told me how it came to be.
As the story goes, Hubbard, John W. Campbell, and L. Sprague de Camp were sitting around having drinks one night and lamenting about the lack of money coming from writing science fiction. Campbell made the comment that the only way to make any real money would be to create a religion, adding that it would be too hard. Hubbard claimed he could do it, went home that night, returning in the morning with an outline for Dianetics, and the rest is history.
de Camp continued to write SF and attend conventions, dying a few years ago in his nineties, but whenever a fan would ask him about Hubbard his response would be, "Son, I knew Ron Hubbard when he was just a cheap crook."
Moses writes:
pseudo-religion cult written by a poorly trained charlatan?
Well, L Ron could at least write (sort of!) - which puts him one leg up on Joseph Smith and Muhammad, both of whom were illiterate charlatans.
Well, I'm glad I saw this. The light bulb finally came on for me about celebrity Scientologists. The appeal for them is this: it takes their natural bent toward narcissism and spiritualizes it. It allows them to view the 'me,me,me' at the core of their being as the be-all-and-end-all of an odyssey of self-actualization that, if the rest of us will only embrace it, will usher in the new millennium. The more they dwell on their own feelings, the more ennobled and self-righteous they become.
I imagine the same trick could be pulled off by devotees of other faiths, but doesn't Scientology just grease the skids in this department?
I imagine the same trick could be pulled off by devotees of other faiths
uh huh.
all you have to do is substitute the rationalizations for narcissm with something else.
apply that to any specifiable sect you can think of, Scott, and you will end up with 90% of what maintains it.
Well, the other way Scientology keeps celebrities is rumored to be through extortion of a kind. The early levels of Scientology require lots of self-incriminating information, same as many cults who want to hear your worst flaws in order to heal them.
Imagine you're an up and coming entertainer and the L Ron goons threaten to release all your most intimate confessions you've made on your way to "clear." It seems cheaper to stay with the program, I guess.
Icthyic:
Can't say as I can disagree with you, though I was referring to narcissism in particular. Christians aren't immune, that's for sure.
You guys should be ashamed of yourselves, picking on Tom Cruise like that.
Talk about low hanging fruit...
BUZZ! Wrong!
If you have investigate scientology, you that it was made up. That, alone, is enough to reject it and anyone silly enough to follow it. If you are willing to be tolerant of bullshit when all evidence shows that it is wrong, feeling free. Just do not get pissy about people who reject it out of hand.
If the only things that cult got wrong was it's stand against psychology and the idea the a mother yelling while giving birth scars the baby, it is enough to be rejected.
Say, do you think it is useful for people to think the L Ron Hubbard is not actually dead?
Just call me intolerant.
we pick on creationists here.
how much lower hanging fruit can you get??
Cruise is a step up, isn't he?
Go here for a laugh...
http://www.ridiculopathy.com/news_detail.php?id=2008
For me the money quote was...
"More than just roadside assistance, Drivanetics provides preventative measures as well including a defensive driving school to help motorists avoid collisions called Crashanon."
yup, I must admit, I'm getting way more laughs out of the parodies on Cruise than I have all week with the creationist ones, even the ones based on the florida nutbars.
Any chance Cruise and his crew would clash with creationists and evangelicals? Big money on yes in the public square at sun up!
That's one bloody cage fight I can't wait to see!
That's one bloody cage fight I can't wait to see!
I really want to see the fundies get nasty with the mormons....the stage is perfectly set.
I really want to see the fundies get nasty with the mormons....the stage is perfectly set.
*rubs hands together evilly*
eeexcellent, Smithers!
eeexcellent, Smithers!
I may be in the market for a sugar daddy, but I'm not so desperate as to become sycophantic....yet.
If it wasn't for the harm they were causing, I would be glad to have $cientologists around to keep me entertained.
They even came to Bulgaria recently, but their fees are kinda high for the local standard.
You know that their church in Frankfurt is about 100 meters away from the skyscraper of the European Central Bank? They must be busy right now, doing some assistance on lowering the interbank rates in case Jean-Claude Trichet fails.
He didn't seem stupid, he seemed drugged. Probably self-medicating since his "religion" won't let him have lithium and/or anti-convulsants.
#110
Talk about low hanging fruit...
Son, that fruit done fell off the tree.
Much as you might dislike various aspects of churches, there really is no comparison. Maybe not if you are convinced of the conspracy theories that describe how the Pope controls every government in the world, I suppose.
Otherwise:
Operation Snow White-
Infiltrated multiple government offices in several countries, including the IRS in order to destroy incriminating documents and facilitate getting a religious tax status. This resulted in criminal convictions for Hubbard's wife and 10 upper echelon leaders. Hubbard was an unindicted co-conspirator. FBI raids for Snow White also turned up other illegal conspiracies, including Operations Normandy and Freak-out.
The FBI raids also revealed document thefts from Canadian agencies, resulting in raids against Scientology in Toronto. After a criminal trial, seven people and the 'Church' itself were convicted.
Operation Normandy
The documents, marked Top Secret, revealed that this was a covert operation to take over the entire city of Clearwater, Florida. Investigations by the Mayor, Gabe Cazares, had already discovered that front organisations were being used to buy land, etc. and he was actively exposing them.
Operation Freak-out.
The Org was planning to frame Paulette Cooper, who frequently wrote critically of them. This involved sending a bomb threat to themselves on her letterhead, from her typewriter, with her fingerprints. Henry Kissinger was a future threat target for her typewriter. The objective was to get her committed to a mental institution, in order to discredit her criticism.
Likewise they were going after Gabe Cazare and had staged a fake hit and run accident and were conducting a sex smear campaign.
Add to these the various SLAPP suits, and generally vindictive behaviour against anyone they determine to be an enemy (Fair Game) and you have something far worse than the typical Church, which seldom manages to con as much as 10% of their sheeples' income. On that note, these guys want 100s of thousands of dollars for their initial brainwashing program. After that you are either an insider and sucking others dry, or you just keep on giving all they can get out of you.
I think that's all the exactly I have for now. Google the above names for more information.
Ronny Hubbard had a series of bad Navy evaluations, like this one:
"Consider this officer lacking in the essential qualities of judgment and cooperation. He acts without forethought as to probable results. He is believed to be sincere in his efforts to make his ship efficient and ready. Not considered to be qualified for command or promotion at this time. Recommend duty on a large vessel where he can be properly supervised."
http://www.lermanet.com/L_Ron_Hubbard/
Jim # 15. There is also probably the nerdiest star of all, Hedy Lamarr, who invented "frequency hopping" back in the forties. She patented it.
Now it is used in such things as phones and wifi.
Scott Hatfield so very nearly discovers the sun ... but just misses. :-(
http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/
Can't believe it hasn't been posted yet.
Welcome to the First Church of Appliantology!
The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only!
If you gotta load or unload
Go to the WHITE ZONE.
Scientology reminds me of Amway (without the soap). This video looks like part of an internal 'inspirational' program (just like Amway's tapes).
Holy cow thatguyisfckingnuts. It reminded me of the SNL skit where the "reporter" is trying to make a point, but can only start with fragments, and never finish a thought. "Look, man, lemmie tell you...Ok, wait a minute, see, because you and I...let me start at the beginning...We both know...I mean, we both really, really know that..." If you haven't seen this skit, it punishes you along these lines for several minutes. (I tried to find the YouTube video link, but to no avail...any help out there?)
Also of interest and note...the New Yorker's Dana Goodyear wrote an article about The Church's land-grabbing in the LA area. They have renovated several old historic buildings with an emphasis on Hollywood's glitterati. The converted Chateau Elysee is now called the "Celebrity Center", and it is a center for celebrities. At least it as an appropriate name.
Can I REGULAR person go KSW and attend the Church at the Celebrity Center? Will the impassioned Tom Cruise open the doors and invite you into the gilded foyer? One spokesperson was quoted, "they (regular people) wouldn't be turned away, but we might recommend a different church."
The point (and reinforced in the article): Scientology uses celebrities to push their agenda. Period. And Tom Cruise, blathering idiot that he is, is nothing but a tool. If he could string together a compound sentence, I might actually feel bad for the guy. pfffft...maybe not.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/01/14/080114fa_fact_goodyear
Today's MTV Rewind Lunch dedicated to Tommy.
What a blithering idiot! WTF is he talking about? Look at the history of scientology. Ronny Boy was a common crook crackpot failure of a human that just wanted to sell more books and took people like Tommy Boy to the bank. Did I just say ethics? I meant hats................ BTW I love being SP (Seriously Plowed). It looks like Tommy was anyway.
I enjoyed Norman Spinrad's Mind Games when I read it at age... gosh... thirteen? It was like receiving an inoculation. There have been days when I wished the "eptifier" was real, though. Heh.
I haven't read all the comments here yet, but I think my reaction was probably a bit different from most of the folks here. I actually feel sorry for the guy. He seems like a good person who's latched onto a bad idea. Maybe I would have a different opinion if I knew some of the lingo. I don't know a lot about scientology, except that it's a kooky religion based on sci-fi (hmmm, wonder what the 'fi' part of that means?). He's definitely acting kind of creepy and crazy, but I wouldn't go all the way and condemn him.
There was a time in my life when I was crazy and religious, too. I used to 'witness', for example, which involves going to the mall and approaching complete strangers with religious tracts. For most of us who grew up in religion, this seemed to be a perfectly acceptable and rational thing to do. We were saving people. If it made them uncomfortable, we thought, 'Good, they should feel uncomfortable. Maybe they should accept Christ.'
Now I'm an atheist, and I feel ashamed of my past spreading of religion. I hope I didn't cause too much harm. In my defense, I really didn't know what I was doing. Does that make me a bad person? I really hope not, but I don't know. I certainly don't plan to come out of my atheist closet just yet (I still love my wife), but I'm not parading around with a Christ-megaphone either.
I guess this means I'm not a good militant (or non-militant) atheist. Based on my own experiences, though, I think there are a lot of good people like Tom Cruise who become deluded by an idea of how they would like things to be, and become handicapped by their inability to see things as they really are.
P.S. Please don't ban me. I really like this blog. :)
i know I am late on commenting on this but.. wow... what a freak! But you know, it is good to see him making as ass of himself. If he was acting sane for the camera more people would follow him onto the spaceship ego.
I think that Tom Cruise just might end up being this generation's Michael Jackson; someone that was popular originally because of their talent, but then stayed in the public sphere only by getting nuttier and nuttier. Also, it seems a bit strange to be a devoted follower of a cult founded by an SF writer, and a shitty one to boot. I'm looking at you, "Battlefield Earth".
"JRS #134' A good person? What kind of a "good person" would refuse a depressed mother therapy? Just give her vitamins, that's the ticket. Whose the fool here? The fool, or the fool who follows the fool? Scientology is a cult and the cultist is just as responsible for their activity in it as the leader is, of which he is one. (second in command?). That makes him culpable doesn't it? Just because he's a f*cking moron doesn't make him not responsible. He isn't clinically retarted but he is a Tard. I, & it seems others, would be happy to condemn him, or at least have him committed so he can't harm anyone else. We let these people have children too.
Tim #130, he's not just a tool. He is doing it by his own free will. You seem to imply he has no choice.
You know, I would be willing to give Tom gayCruiser the benefit of the doubt as to whether he is a tool or a fool. However, because he claims to have superior knowledge, he throws away that benefit of the doubt, and shows what a frappin shill he is. Screw him and all like him.
Was that necessary?
Actually, no, it wasn't. Blame my lack of imaginative means of expressing myself.
Scientology reminds me of Amway
They remind me of an ant colony. Ruthless, mechanical, programmed, full of memorized slogans (yeah, ants are like that).
Of course, the scientologists probably think it's a compliment.
JRS--Never fear, nothing bannable in honest communication. I haven't read all the comments either, but I doubt many think Cruise is a "bad person"...just a freakin nutcase. Clearly, this is someone who just swallowed the powdered Kool-Aid without even diluting it with water.
I didn't realize I was lapsing into a good person/bad person theme until I saw some of the comments and reread my post. Of course I realize that nobody is completely 'good' or 'bad', and that it's all subjective. Anyway, I still think Mr. Cruise is simply deluded, and has what he feels are the best of intentions.
Oh, and people, please! Don't insult the learning disabled, and don't advocate forced birth control. (Yes, I'm talking about you, barklikeadog.) It only reinforces the stereotype.
Any crazy CoSers show up?
It's a pyramid scheme cult. And Tom Cruise may now be the number 2 man in the CoS.
He gets no sympathy.
/"Oh, and people, please! Don't insult the learning disabled, and don't advocate forced birth control. (Yes, I'm talking about you, barklikeadog.) It only reinforces the stereotype."/
JRS, What sterotype? People who choose to think for themselves? Read Tard as = to CreoTard. Just because he isn't a christian creationist doesn't absolve him of being as stupid (aliens, volcanoes & atomic bombs?)and BTW I didn't disparage the mentally handicapped or suggest forced birth control. It was sarcasm. The fact that he isn't mentally retarded,(OOps I'll try to be PC), mentally handicapped, (that's a whole lot different from learning disabled, I'm actually an active advocate of learning disabled children, so don't lecture me on propriety) means he is responsible. I don't buy the brainwashed BS. They go into it eyes open.
I think there's more of a case for calling religious people retarded (mentally, educationally, morally and emotionally) in that religion really does retard both their initial development and their subsequent application of ability in those areas. No need to think about or learn real stuff because all the Answers are In Genesis (allegedly). No need to stop being a dishonest, self-absorbed brat because Scientology says you're more advanced that way anyway. Definitely no need to actually do anything useful yourself to make things better.
Scot Hatfield OM #106 wrote:
Narcissism can have different ways of expressing itself. I think it was Christopher Hitchins who said that religion often manages to combine the maximum of arrogance with the maximum of humility. What about:
The appeal for them is this: the religion allows followers to view the "me, me, me" at the core of their being as the be-all and end-all of an odyssey of self-mortification that, if the rest of us will only embrace it, will usher in the new millennium. The more they dwell on their own faults, flaws, and guilt, the more they humble and debase themselves, then the more ennobled and self-righteous they become.
I think we're starting to draw in more religions with this description -- though, from what I've seen of it, Scientology also has lots of degrading 'break-down the self to rebuild-it" techniques. I watched part of the training video someone posted earlier. Every time you blink, they shout "Flunk!" at you -- till you no longer blink. Strength through humiliation.
As Eric Hoffer's book The True Believer pointed out, there is a lot of self-empowerment and arrogance which can grow out of the idea that you're nothing but a miserable worm bowing to a Higher Power. Clever and wise of you to recognize it over those even lesser souls who don't.
barklikeadog,
Oh, it was sarcasm. That explains it. Your words are a gift to mankind.
Rick Ross on the video:
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/01/tom-cruise-post.php#more
/barklikeadog,
Oh, it was sarcasm. That explains it. Your words are a gift to mankind./
Resorting to sarcasm yourself JRS? Tommy is just deluded about reality? Like aliens, volcanoes & atomic bombs? & you were just as deluded when you accosted people in the mall with Tard literature too, I assume. Refusal to accept responsibility is a sign of an immature personality, you have no defense. But now you've seen the light? You knew what you were doing then & Tommy knows what he is doing now.
barklikeadog,
I thought maybe too hard about whether to respond to you or not. To be honest, your use of epithets like 'tard' make it hard for me, because under most circumstances I know I should refuse to debate with an idiot. Responding to you makes me look like as much a fool as you do, and yet it's so hard to resist...
How old are you, seriously, like 17 or so? Please don't answer that. Once you grow up, though, you'll realize that things aren't always black and white. I used to think that way too.
OK, I've said my piece. I am not going back to this thread anymore.
Good try JRS. Been around long? Apparently you've not been to many threads either. Gonna take your ball & go home? If you can't take a hit, don't play. Your defense of a nutcase tells a lot. It isn't OK to advocate crap like touch therapy and the other bizarre stuff. Tommy and scientology are doing harm to society & people like you who make light of it are part of the problem. If you truly care about the damage that those idiots do, then you wouldn't be so insulting to those that do care. Go hide your head in the sand and pretend the bad boys didn't upset your sensibilities & maybe the morons will back off & go away. Or you could buck up & actually do something to help society, like try to mold the next generation into conscious thinking beings. That's what I & the majority of the people I know do, including the commentors on this blog. Hope we can talk again.
Yup. Just as I suspected. They pulled the videos off YouTube. I want to thank #30 for posting it. At least I was able to see the entire, crazy thing last night. That was truly creepy as hell.
Suspicious (#153)
Up on a new site
MAJeff- Thanks but I got a blank page...lol.
hmmm....works for me, even after clearing my cache and retrying.
I don't feel particularly sorry for Tom Cruise. Suri Cruise on the other hand I do. That poor kid will be lucky if she doesn't end up insane.
yeah, that link that MAJeff put up works, it just seems that the site "sticks" a bit.
give it a minute and the rest of the links to the vids will appear.
Thanks, but it's still not working for me. I saw the whole thing last night anyway. While they were attempting to take it down. I'm just glad that they're still out there for others to see. It's important that as many people as possible see just how kooky they are. Thanks again folks!
I forwarded the main link to a friend of mine. She could only get through a few minutes but forwarded to the Comparative Religions faculty members she works with.
Apologies for getting into the comments so late, but here's a link on some history (unverified by me, but seems consistent with what I know about this crime syndicate--err..cult) at http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/8.htm, just for anybody unfamiliar with the history. Yes, it is a frightening cult started by someone who is, in my opinion (there..libel is covered), a psychotic charlatan. But then, probably most of you already knew that...
That's what happens when you empty a brain completely and fill it with cult nonsense. All you have left are the autonomic functions and the insane ramblings of the zombie.
That Radaronline link has a pretty good explaination of how indoctrinated and frankly empty minded Cruise (and others in cults) has become.
Hah! That island is now melting underneath Kamchatka! The islands that nowadays make up the archipelago are from something like 5 million to 400,000 years old, off the top of my head. It goes without saying that not one of the mentioned volcanoes existed 75 Ma ago. It also goes without saying that there's no mass extinction or trace of bizarre isotopes or anything in the rocks from that time, and so on...
This is more obvious than the huge cities and even huger wars supposed to have taken place in North America a few thousand years ago according to Mormonism.
What amazes me about Scientology most is actually that despite all their crazy pseudopsychology, the organization seems to have invented incredible mind control and mess-up techniques.
Hence the dogmatic dismissal of psychology, Keith. Anything that might undo their brainwashing is going to be denigrated in the extreme.
Yipes! That was mind numbing. I can't believe I managed to sit through the whole thing. I knew he was nuts from his tirade a couple years ago about Brook Shields, but wow is he out there. I can't say I've ever been impressed with his acting skills, either.
Can we finish off this thread with a nice send up? Here goes: Jerry O'Connell does a retake (and no he's not as funny as Eddie Izzard...)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chez-pazienza/be-wary-be-wary-the-10t_b_8…
http://www.partyvan.info/index.php/Project_Chanology
Scientology has finally done it. They've pissed off the internet.
Hah! That island is now melting underneath Kamchatka! The islands that nowadays make up the archipelago are from something like 5 million to 400,000 years old, off the top of my head. It goes without saying that not one of the mentioned volcanoes existed 75 Ma ago. It also goes without saying that there's no mass extinction or trace of bizarre isotopes or anything in the rocks from that time, and so on...
This is more obvious than the huge cities and even huger wars supposed to have taken place in North America a few thousand years ago according to Mormonism.