Remember the case of John Freshwater, the Ohio science teacher who burned a cross into a student's arm and decorates his desk with Christian kitsch? He's a raving mad loon, but he's also fun and popular with the Christian kids at school (who are, naturally, a majority).
Now John Freshwater and the school district are going to court.
Freshwater's action and the administration's inaction, the lawsuit states, "have the purpose and effect of endorsing religion over non-religion and Christianity over other religious beliefs, thus violating the neutrality portion of the Establishment Clause."
In addition to asking the court to issue an injunction against the teaching of religion in the school, the plaintiffs seek compensatory damages, punitive damages, reasonable attorney fees, prejudgment interest and post judgment costs, and other relief the court deems appropriate.
Read the whole thing. It sounds open-and-shut to me, since not only is Freshwater plainly promoting sectarian religion in the public school classroom, he's proud of it and brags about his advocacy. One wild card, though: the plaintiffs want a jury trial. That isn't always a plus in a case that's trying to protect a minority view.
They're also just asking that Freshwater stop peddling his sectarian nonsense in the classroom (plus damages and costs), so I don't think he'll get to achieve his desired martyrdom.
Also at FCA [Fellowship of Christian Athletes] meetings, the suit alleges that Freshwater distributed Bibles for the students present to give to other students at the school who were not present, and that an invited speaker told students "they should disobey the law to further their own religion, even if it means going to jail."
Jail isn't at stake here, nor are they asking that he be fired. Just please stop using the classroom as a pulpit.
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This should be an interesting case to follow. Boy it sure is great living in North Eastern Massachusetts. Anyone in the Midwest know a team called the Boston Celtics?
Aethist & Proud
Denis C
Such a thing is just unthinkable in Europe,even Australia I would imagine.
Just out of interest,who are the plaintiffs?
Damn, I was hoping that Freshwater had found a position at Oral Roberts Crapaversity and all this bullshit could be avoided. Now we'll have fiasco in court to keep the insanity alive ala Dover and Kansas. Crapola1
PZ: Don't forget to mention the excellent article on our man Charles Darwin by Olivia Judson in today's New York Times!
"they should disobey the law to further their own religion"
For example, by illegally taking control of a passenger jet and crashing it into a building?
I think it would be fair to have someone burn some symbols into Freshwater's skin, for example the periodic table from shoulder to shoulder across his back. That could remind him what he's actually supposed to be teaching. Besides, it couldn't be considered cruel and unusual if he's claiming there's nothing wrong with burning a cross into his students, right?
What about the part where he ASSAULTED AND INJURED A STUDENT????!11!! Shouldn't there be criminal charges here, whether the parents wanted to press them or not? For that, he should be fired at the minimum, preferably doing some jail time.
I wish them luck. That guy is a mad, crazy freak and is harmful to students. It's just too bad that he's so popular and that his students are so brainwashed.
Comment #5:
Ah, but which periodic table?
Oh and I agree with Carlie. He SHOULD be fired... HE BURNED A FRICKIN' KID!
I mean, the fun experiment where we all hold hands and electrocute everyone in the classroom is not harmful, and the students are warned and can refuse to participate (I did, what a pussy I am), but BURNING? Fire him.
Yes, he sounds like a loon but I admire how he is revolutionary, fun and popular. I wish he was our side.
No. No, you don't. The last thing anyone needs is a person who abuses children on there side.
Dammit! THEIR side.
Coffee! Stat!
NOne of you kwno Mr fReshwater he is a great guy and a great teacher who never burnt anybody so you werent thare so just shut up ther eare two side tos every stgory.
Let me guess...he's charged with assault with a battery...
Posted by: babblina | June 18, 2008 8:37 AM
Your English teacher should be fired!
IMO I stick with PZ's original blog entry, "FIRE HIM!"
Assault with a battery? LOL!
*cough*
Ahem.
This country has been going to hell in a shopping cart ever since religious branding was removed from our public schools.
God bless John Freshwater!
/badlyDonePoe
@babblina: Learn to type and we'll discuss. There are always two sides to a story but I'm pretty damn sure that the kid that was burned disagrees with you. HIS PARENTS TOO.
"We are religious people, but we were offended when Mr. Freshwater burned a cross onto the arm of our child. This was done in science class in December 2007, where an electric shock machine was used to burn our child. The burn was severe enough that our child awoke that night with severe pain, and the cross remained there for several weeks. ... We have tried to keep this a private matter and hesitate to tell the whole story to the media for fear that we will be retaliated against."
He ought to be dismissed for burning the cross into a kid's arm. Committing battery against a member of the class ought to be, and presumably is (depending on the state's law), a dismissable offence. Religion is really a tangential issue here; I would feel the same if he had burned any other symbol into a student's arm.
Well, it's nice that there is now a chance that this man will lose his teaching position. But he has had that position for 21 years.
It's a shame that it has taken this long and a case of abusing a student for anybody to pay attention to what was going on in his classroom. tisk tisk tisk.
Am I the only one who took babblina at #13 as a joke? Really!?
According to the referenced newspaper article, he burned crosses into the arms of "at least two students".
When I looked at the specifications for the device in question, I saw that it delivers from 20,000 to 45,000 volts at a frequency of about 500kHz. This is RF (radio frequency) stuff - it burns deep into the skin.
There is no excuse. He should be locked up.
I am now not sure about that 21 years bit in my previous post. I may have hallucinated that....I can't find where I read it....
As other do, I find the fact that he burned kid and is still in the classroom absolutely incredible. Why has he not been charged in relation to this? This should also be about more than simply whether he loses his job.
Does anyone know the facts concerning this part of the story?
I thought babblina#13 might be joking.
I was gonna wait and see. You really can't be too sure sometimes.
"they should disobey the law to further their own religion"
something something "atheists have no morals" somethingorother "not a True Christian" blah bity blah blah
The thing he used is here:
http://www.electrotechnicproduct.com/pinhole.asp
The company calls it a "high-frequency generator tester for leak detection". How do we get from there to "burning little kids with this thing would be cool"?
Perhaps Mr. Freshwater should have his apparatus applied to his testicles as part of his ongoing education about why he shouldn't use it on students.
It might look like #13 is a joke, but my high school-aged cousins are pretty intelligent and occasionaly type almost as badly.
Based on the story told by the parents of the child in question (i.e. the plaintiffs) and other details surrounding the story, I surmise that the burn was a second-degree burn, significant in and of itself, but not a serious health concern because of the very small surface area involved.
According to the complaint, the pain was initially severe enough to make sleep difficult for the child. That level of pain faded after a couple of days, but the mark left on the arm persisted for weeks, perhaps two or three months, before fading. It wasn't a serious burn that left a permanent scar, but it was more than just a red mark that faded after a day or two.
The reason I bring it up is because when this first came up a few months ago, some of Mr. Freshwater's defenders suggested the whole thing might be trumped-up, or even a hoax.
This charge against the integrity of the plaintiffs was based on the assumption that a burn painful enough to wake the student up in the middle of the night would leave a permanent mark, and because there was no mark by the time the complaint was made public several months after the alleged incident, the plaintiffs' story was exaggerated or fabricated. However, that assumption is faulty, because the details of the story are consistent with the progression of a second-degree burn over the small area of skin that would have come into contact with the metal cross.
/preemptiveComment
A Jury trial shouldn't even be possible for a Constitutionality case. The average person simply has no idea what the current legal interpretation of the Constitution is, nor the importance of legal precedent and how a judgment is supposed to follow current precedent no matter what the individual might actually think.
This would be an open and shut case to a judge, who would probably rule on summary given the facts and not bother with the whole trial.
Instead, it's going to turn into a media circus that'll make Dover seem tame (well, it was, really).
Now, this *could* be the case, like Snopes, where we lose and then win - we (political secularists) lose the case (until appeal), but are able to publicly embarrass the Religious Right that we can start to decrease their influence over the moderate Christians.
Oh yes Kseniya. I once had second degree burns. Small one really. I couldn't part with my clothes iron fast enough. Ow.
THEY HURT. A LOT. Wakes you up a night without any problem.
PS: butter doesn't help. Where did that bull come from?! Mothers, I tell ya...
I once scalded my left forearm and got a partial thickness (second degree) burn trying to take a melamine* bowl of full of boiling Mi Goreng noodles out of a microwave.
Embarrassing and very, very painful. I had to take pain relievers to get to sleep the first night or two. And I should point out when I first burnt my arms (superficial, or first degree on the right arm) I IMMEDIATELY put it under cold water, and had it running for half an hour before going to the hospital.
I don't know how this kid dealt with it.
Oh and butter is an old wives tale, you should never put ointments or butter on burns, leave that to the doctors.
*Don't put melamine in the microwave, it becomes very hot.
Funny how the conservative media spinned this story originally. They made it into a case that this good educator was being needlessly persecuted for merely insisting on keeping his treasured copy of the bible on his desk, thus violating his constitutional rights, and framing it as "anti-christian bigotry", with the obligatory Nazi reference.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=37911
I didn't see any mention in the current lawsuit about how Freshwater, in his capacity as faculty chaperone to a Christian student athlete group, led prayers to "cast out Satan" from an ill guest speaker visiting the group. I hope that comes out at the trial.
I give John Freshwater an F.
.
.
If I was unemployed like you, I would be drunk this morning, too.
I wonder if both sides of this argument are actually working for the same cause and just trying to establish precedent for later cases.
I noticed the students had an online petition to keep him so I whipped up a petition to "can" him. Of course nothing will come of it but it might make you feel better to electronically sign. http://www.gopetition.com/online/18938.html
I wonder if both sides of this argument are actually working for the same cause and just trying to establish precedent for upcoming cases.
If I'm reading this right the religious nuts appear to have gone from "lying for Jesus" is OK to "branding children for Jesus" is OK.
What exactly does someone have to do in the name of Jesus for it to be considered objectionable by this mob?
#2:
Don't be too smug. It would be unthinkable because in Europe, christian schools are government-funded. I should know, I went to one.
Lilly de Lure at #39: What exactly does someone have to do in the name of Jesus for it to be considered objectionable by this mob?
Fred Phelps seems to have managed it...
I especially like the part where, upon learning the identity of the complaining party (no thanks to the principal), the teacher rearranged the chaperone assignments for an upcoming field trip so that he could supervise the child of the plaintiffs.
That was a nice touch, don't you think? An organized crime syndicate couldn't have done it better...
I know Babblina has been laughed at before but ...
Babblina, do you kwno hOw to sPell stgory?
Post 13 must be a joke.
Sorry, I mEant spOt 13m ust bE a joKe.
i think freshwater is a pretty cool guy. eh burns kids and doesn't afraid of anything.
Incidentally (and off topic), on this day in 1858, Charles Darwin received a manuscript by fellow naturalist Alfred Russel Wallace on evolution, which prompted Darwin to publish his theory.
Wikipedia, almost as good as this blog for avoiding work!
You might wonder how Freshwater could behave as he did for so long without the school taking action, but I'm not that suprised. You'd be amazed at the crap that went on at my high school. We made Christmas decorations in art class and hung them all over the school - things that looked like stained glass windows, Christmas trees and the like. That art teacher told one student she was "really filling out," and he made other remarks to me that were not explicit come-ons, but betrayed his thougts. (He was also the head track coach. I don't think he knew anythign about running. He just liked looking at the girls in short shorts and tank tops.) There was another teacher and football coach who reportedly, on catching a student cheating, picked up the desk with the student seated in it and physically thew them out of the classroom. Then there was the time the assistant principal swore at the entrie school over the PA system. The day before, a girl had finished reading the morning announcements with "have a good freaking day." Yeah, we totally deserved being reamed out for that. The point is, no action was taken against in any of these instances. I didn't even bother to tell my parents.
(For the other end of the spectrum, my dad lost his coaching job for raising his voice to the atheletic director. It's clear what's important to school administrators: themselves.)
From the earlier Columbus Dispatch article:
"...Freshwater agreed to take down the Ten Commandments from the door of his classroom, posters with Bible verses and Bibles on a shelf. But he refused to remove his personal Bible from his desk when students are in the room.
"That Bible is me. I want my Bible on my desk because that is me," he said..."
Does that also apply for MY copy of "Mein Kampf?" Like the Bible, it's just another historical book full of widely conflicting content, compassion for a chosen few, and hate for everyone else!
"That book is ME. I want my Mein Kampf on MY desk because that is me!!!"
Why can't Mr. Freshwater and his kind just "rapture" out of our educational system...?
Excellent!
It reminds me of my favorite quip when I see young people acting idiotic, "Yeah, I remember when I had my first beer."
(with credit to Steve Martin)
Schmeer@5, Gene@28 and everybody else...
... why not just burn a numeric digit into his forehead? Three times, just to make sure he understands...?
well. Time to refill the coffee... and clean the monitor.
And that's why we don't give whiskey to eight-year-olds
These are jokes right?
#52
It's an obscure reference to a series of videos on Youtube called "Arby & the Chief". Think The Odd Couple, but its done with Halo toys.
I'm surprised that the school district is wading into the muck of a trial, with all the accompanying publicity/costs/time suckage. All they have to do is fire him for hurting a student. Full stop. Then he can't claim persecution for his religious beliefs, and when he applies for a new job, the reason for leaving the old is "Purposely injuring a student." That's what he'd have to say (if being honest), that's what the school would say. No religious crap needs enter into it, and he'd still never get a teaching job again. This leaves him wide open for a Xtian school to welcome him in away from the big bad world, since he was so picked on.
So...it's OK to brand students with religious symbols. Well, maybe just a simple religious symbol like the cross. Something complicated like the "Om" symbol, the Star of David, pentagram, etc. would be Eeeevilllll and worthy of instant dismissal, but the cross...well, it's the *cross!* I suppose an exception to the "complicated symbol" prohibition could be made in the case of an American flag with "Support the Troops" written below it.
On the other hand, if a teacher performs "wizardry" (a very simple magic trick), he can be instantly fired. I guess Jim Piculas should be grateful he wasn't branded or burned at the stake or something.
Makes me wonder if someday historians will extend the period known as "the Dark Ages" to include our own.
@28
{Perhaps Mr. Freshwater should have his apparatus applied to his testicles as part of his ongoing education about why he shouldn't use it on students.
Posted by: Gene | June 18, 2008 9:01 AM
}
Teach him that he shouldn't use what on the students? The apparatus or his testicles?
@56
That he shouldn't use the apparatus on his students, and his testicles at all. Imagine what he would do to his own children.
I hope he costs the district SO much money that they waste no time finding him a nice Christian school to move to. There are certainly plenty of them, and he'd fit right in, there.
Er... as long as we're snarking on others' errors, I'll note that that should be If I were unemployed....
Actually, the sheer density of conspicuous and commonplace errors (not to mention the name babblina) convinces me the comment in question was a work of satire. Either that, or babblina texted it from a cellphone while driving his/her car over a cliff.
Either way, "correcting" it is probably not worth the electrons. IMHO, of course.
That is funny! With due respect to Steve Martin, I do wonder if it's one of those old standby anti-heckler lines, such as "Folks, that's what happens when cousins marry!" and other, similar put-downs.
So that's why you wasted more electrons correcting the correction, Bill?
And that must be why I am snarking the correction of the correction, and...
*thud*
Where's my coffee?
Kseniya: not to mention the old standby "So are your names Neil and Bob, or is that just what you do?"
I'm actually fine with the "disobey the law" sentiment -- in general it would do kids a lot of good to learn that "following the law != morality". In fact it's often the opposite -- Thoreau should be required reading in civics/government classes.
The guy's clearly done plenty of stuff that means he should be thrown out, but saying that people should be willing to go to jail for their beliefs isn't one of them.
I'd want him fired. Not only because he can't help but preach but because he's a crappy science teacher and you know he feels obligated to intimidate students if they show any form of enlightenment. Also, he promotes bullying in his own students.
What a putz.
I see that Bill is a devotee of the Church of the SubJunctive!
Babblina is a Poe.
Kseniya (@65):
Well, if one must have a church... ;^)
Kseniya (#60): since i've heard him use it a few times (live show, taped special, recorded album, etc), almost certainly
at one point i wondered if he had a confederate planted to feed him a "drunk" line. but i'm cynical like that =)
Carlie @ 6: Shouldn't there be criminal charges here, whether the parents wanted to press them or not? For that, he should be fired at the minimum, preferably doing some jail time.
Whether to bring criminal charges is the decision of the local prosecutor. The linked article doesn't say anything either way about this.
The parents don't need the involvement or permission of the prosecutor to bring a civil action (lawsuit).
The feds could also choose to Freshwater, regardless of what the local prosecutor does.
IANAL, TANTBTALA, etc.
What a cretin.
Carlie @ 54: I'm surprised that the school district is wading into the muck of a trial, with all the accompanying publicity/costs/time suckage. All they have to do is fire him for hurting a student. Full stop.
They have no choice.
The linked article says that the school district is named as a party in the lawsuit, ie the parents are suing a number of different parties. The parents are seeking injunctive relief, ie asking the court to issue an injunction prohibiting the school district from continuing to engage in certain actions.
Public servants, including teachers at public schools, have qualified immunity for the actions they perform as part of their official duties. Therefore, it's common for plaintiffs to sue govt workers both individually and in their official capacities. Covers all the bases.
The notion of qualified immunity also allows agencies, such as the school board, to substitute themselves as a defendent when their employees are sued.
IANAL, TANTBTALA, etc.
Unfortunately, I know Mt. Vernon all too well. It's the county seat of Knox (noxious), where just down the road in Gambier (Kenyon College), people waited in line for hours and hours to vote at the sole working voting booth. (The only - coincidence, I'm sure - place in that county that votes overwhelmingly Democratic.) It's home to a bunch of nutty fundamentalist authoritarian xtianists - Assemblies of Gawd, Nazarenies - with their own collitch of hah-ur larnin' and more racists, bigots and nuts per square mile in that county than one can imagine. It's just up the road a piece from Rod Parseley's World Harvest (your pockets) ministries.
TANTBTALA = ?
Funny. If you assault a student in our rural SD without a compelling need to save life or prevent injury..you are fired. Other than they can't find literate college graduates, why would this school retain him? He has a propensity to violence, a track record of not following rules, and is likely to reoffend.
TANTBTALA = The Above (is) Not To Be Taken As Legal Advice.
Correcting an ommission from my post # 65: The feds could also choose to prosecute Freshwater, regardless of what the local prosecutor does.
@ 71: Unfortunately, I know Mt. Vernon all too well[...] It's home to a bunch of nutty fundamentalist authoritarian xtianists
Which is probably one of the reasons the suit was brought in federal court. The Southern District of Ohio (and encompasses the lower 2/3 of the state, thus the jury will be drawn from a much larger area than just Knox county. Had the suit been brought in the local court the jurors would all have come from Knox county.
(Insert alphabet soup of disclaimers, here).
Slightly OT, but whatever became of Jim Piculas, the Wizard of Florida? I'd've expected a similar lawsuit in his case, but I've heard zilch about it.
Sounds like this guy could use a good old biblical burning at the stake.
One has to wonder about the validity of research coming from the University of Minn Biology dept. Claiming that Freshwater burned a cross in the arm of a student as fact before the trial has even started. Not even a mention of alleged. I wonder if that is how they do research up there.
It looks like not all the lunatics reside in Mt Vernon for sure.
Lazy thinker too, apparently.
Babblina is a Poe.
I am so NOT a po ho.
I am so NOT a po ho.
business is good, then?
Claiming that Freshwater burned a cross in the arm of a student as fact before the trial has even started.
So it doesn't happen until the trial starts and says that it happened? Last I heard, bloggers didn't have to discuss matters from a strictly legal point of view. At least, not according to internet traditions. See #18.
Even if he didn't preach and have a Bible, he BURNED A STUDENT.
Injuring a student intentionally is more than enough grounds for a parent (or many parents) to ask for his removal IMMEDIATELY.
As an educator, this is disturbing that anyone would do this.
I don't really understand how the parents of the student that was burned by this a$$wipe can be so timid. If something like this were to happen to my child I would make it my mission in life to have this man fired and then jailed. Hell, even if this just happened to someone elses child at a local school I'd be on this guy like stink on $hit. He is a danger to his students. We are not supposed to allow demented fuckwits like this to endanger anyone, let alone children. It is a sad, sad commentary on the state of our society that so many people seem so complacent about this teacher's actions. It's all bullshit. These days I find the slightest wiff of religion to be acutely disgusting.
I was thinking it was a small X, not decimeter-long cross brand! Whata creep! (Flame me if the following tag doesn't work)
ouch/a>
may b I spoke too soon
COLUMBUS, Ohio - The school board of a small central Ohio community voted unanimously Friday to fire a teacher accused of preaching his Christian beliefs despite staff complaints and using a device to burn the image of a cross on students' arms.
School board members voted 5-0 to fire Mount Vernon Middle School science teacher John Freshwater. Board attorney David Millstone said Freshwater is entitled to a hearing to challenge the dismissal.
Full article here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080620/ap_on_re_us/teacher_bible
Via Shakesville, here's another update from the Columbus Dispatch.
From that article:
"ighth-graders who were taught by John Freshwater frequently had to be re-taught in high school what they were supposed to have learned in Freshwater's class, according to outside investigators hired by the district.
For 11 years, other teachers in the school district and people in the community complained about Freshwater preaching his Christian beliefs in class and slamming scientific theories, a school administrator told investigators."
The Freshwater case is even scarier because he has the backing of Minutemen United, a right-wing fringe group that is more hate group than religious sect. They have vowed to replace all the school board members via a petition demanding they resign (after being duly elected in a free, democratic election by local residents) They had attempted to force a recall election for school board members, unaware Ohio does not have such a process.
IMHO they are targeting a small, legitimately religious community in an effort to control the minds of area youth and take over the community to further their wacko, hate-filled beliefs.
Updates will appear in the Mount Vernon News
http://www.mountvernonnews.com
The religious forces at work here want to make this an issue of "refusing to remove a bible."
To me that's not the issue. If the dude had a bible on his desk that he liked to read during lunch period or something then fine if that's his dig. The reality goes far beyond that. The guy is a crazy religious zealout trying to use his classroom as a pulpit and apparently burning crosses into the arms of students!