Ted Haggard is in the news again — it seems he has been involved in long term homosexual relationships, and has been abusing his power for sexual favors. Raise your hands if you would never have expected it!
Hey, how come none of you lifted your fingers from your keyboard?
Here's his latest excuse, and it's actually a good one.
In an AP interview this month before an appearance in front of TV critics in California, Haggard described his sexuality as complex and something that can't be put into "stereotypical boxes."
Yes! Now if only he could understand that everyone's sexuality is complicated and difficult and personal, and that the real problem is people like him and his fellow evangelicals who insist that there is only one tolerable, one-size-fits-all box for us all.
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I feel sorry for the volunteer - watching the bad guy protrayed as a victim must be terrible. I'm glad the church realised this.
Only the true christian's homosexuality can be complex. The rest of us have surrendered to sin.
I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Now where'd I put my slinky?
We expect hypocrisy from preachers about sex. The more prominent they are, the more likely they are to lie to themselves and everyone else about it. Nope, the hands didn't leave the keyboard.
I'm just glad the church didn't go after the guy for breech of confidentiality. It looks like they were happy that Ted is getting a little smackdown. I doubt they're happy with his proposed 'comeback'.
In other news, a reminder that we are not the masters of our own domain. There is much more science that needs to be done.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1126650/Miss-World-fi…
Enjoy.
Stereotypical boxes? I surely thought hypocritical-self-hating-bigot was the box that all closeted evangelicals fit in. Is there another?
They generally insist on 2 not 1.
Rather like the anti-choice pro-lifers having abortions, who claim (according to the reports from health-care professionals in links posted by various people) that their situation isn't at all like that of "those sluts" who offend them by being in the same waiting room.
"Only my homosexuality can be complex."
"only my abortion is a moral abortion"
et cetera ad nauseam. complete and utter empathy fail. I learned that what I experience, others experience as well sometime when I was 5, so I guess their mental development must have stopped earlier than that
Color me unsurprised. I lived in the shadow of New Life Church when I was a denizen of Colorado Springs. Empathy, sympathy, and a box of Kleenex is what they demanded of you - but any measure of understanding in return was beyond their capabilities.
I must say I find a post about complex sexuality and hands leaving the keyboard... well... a little too tempting to quote-mine.
At least he's not claiming that he's cured of "teh ghey" and is now 100 percent attracted only, and to all, of the female persuasion. He should be made to watch himself preach his rabid anti-gay propaganda- in a sort of a "Clockwork Orange" way.
my hands did not rise from the keyboard. when i read the news yesterday i could only shake my head. haggard and others of his ilk need to accept that being homosexual is not a choice.
his self loathing due to his fundamental xtian beliefs must be staggering.
Did Haggard deny his sexuality was a choice? If not, then he's (barely) consistent. He just made a bad choice, that's all.
Irony meter save, this time.
save = safe
One way or another, Ted Haggard will blow his brains out if he keeps up like this.
Oh, Ted Haggard, you. What a rascal.
Gotta watch late night talk shows next week.
Hey, I know! He just feels sorry for the late night comedians now that Bush is out.
Ahahaha! I can change the name. (and now we lay Diderot to rest.)
Janine, you have to goto typepad website and change your nickname in the profile tab. Then resign in.
Speaking of Typepad, anyone yet has been able to track comments, their own or others'?
Thanks to Micheal X and Mena for pointing me in the right direction.
What a piece of work...
This was his view taken from his personal website just prior to his downfall. This statement is his view of Hell before he was caught. Notice the “unbeliever will be judged by God” when in fact, it was Ted doing the judging. Goddamn hypocrite.
Hell: After living one life on earth, the unbelievers will be judged by God and sent to hell where they will be eternally tormented with the devil and the fallen angels (see Matt. 25:41; Mark 9:43-48; Heb. 9:27; Rev. 14:9-11; 20:12-15; 21:8)."
His Bio stated:
Pastor Ted Haggard is the president of the 30 million-member National Association of Evangelicals (NAE), the largest evangelical group in America. He is also founder and senior pastor of the 14,000-member New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado. He formed and serves as the president of both the Association of Life-Giving Churches, a network of local churches, and worldprayerteam.org, the only real-time global prayer network.
Pastor Ted has been interviewed by Barbara Walters, Tom Brokaw, Bill O’Reilly, Chris Matthews, and more. Time included Pastor Ted in their list of the 25 Most Influential Evangelicals in America. Harper’s says, “No pastor in America holds more sway over the political direction of evangelicalism than does Pastor Ted.”
He graduated from Oral Roberts University in 1978 and has received two honorary Doctor of Divinity degrees. He served as the American Vice-President for World Missions for Jesus, a German missions organization, and served as an Associate Pastor at Bethany World Prayer Center in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, which helped him plant New Life Church in 1985. Haggard and his wife, Gayle, have five children.
Well, it seems this fallen fool has fooled everyone, including himself. I love that he has two "honorary" degrees; he should receive a third for being a master charlatan.
I wonder if they can revoke those "honorary" degrees.
I feel more sorry for the lying bugger's wife & kids than I do for him.
And I guess it gives a whole new meaning to, "Get behind me, Satan".
The Reverend Paul T Hipple (just love that name) on the blog for "Expelled", once claimed that any minister of religion, if ever caught out on committing any "sin" or convicted of any crime, must have been possessed by Satan, and should therefore be immediately forgiven, and also released from gaol if imprisoned with a free pardon. The "reasoning" from what I can gather, is that Satanic possession of ministers of religion is a occupational hazard. Satan apparently prefers to possess ministers of religion and lead them astray, to cast maximum doubt in the minds of their sheep, sorry flock. Unless, of course if they are Catholic priests, who are damned anyway, as the spawn of the devil.
I call Haggard's Law on Haggard!
"The chance of involvement in supposed 'sinful' behavior increases with the effort spent in denouncing said behavior."
I found a poll asking if Ted Haggard is a homosexual or heterosexual:
Vote to see if Ted Haggard is Gay or not!
Good to see I wasn't the only one slightly deterred by the new typepad login.
Those who say the real problem is that Ted hasn't fully realized and embraced his HUMAN gayness are spot on. It is difficult for him to rebuild his church on the basis of God loves gays even when they are doing the nasty, so he has to make sure to keep an arm's length away from extolling such viewpoints.
In my honest opinion, his only real chance to regain any stature is to use his new found five minutes of media attention to go full out gay. He could build a HUGE following by just attracting all the gays away from the more strident evangelical churches. God knows they're crammed to the hilt with self hating gays. That's in part how he used to make his living.
Enjoy.
The kids, yes, but I wouldn't be so quick to feel sorry for Mrs. Haggard or any other adult member of that church. We used to have a term for that type of christian -"baptized in vinegar". She's probably as much a "piece of work" as he is.
If they would just read the Kinsey Report (and believe it - which is a big order) much of the stupidity on this subject would stop. Of course, it would not stop them from other stupid ideas but one step at a time.
But, but, but...
We have it from an authority regularly cited at Pharyngula that Ted Haggard Is Completely Heterosexual!
(Damned if I’m the only one who’s going to have this tune bouncing around between his ears all night...)
oh great, Pierce, I hadn't thought of that, but thanks for the earworm :P.
I see the "your either straight or gay" false dichotomy is still alive and well. No broad spectrum for male sexuality, only the ladies are allowed that, so polarize away!
I'm starting to feel sorry for the wee Haggards as well. Can't be a nice way to grow up - but of course, we know that a true Christian upbringing is the only way to instill morals in kids ...
Could anyone link me to that article (I think it must have been one of the first I saw here on Pharyngula) about how "Abortion is immoral except when I have one" or words to that effect? I've tried a variety of permutations without being able to google it up.
I'm hoping this will suffice as a reasonable substitute for your request, as well as being entirely on topic.
It's from Roy Zimmerman and he's PZ approved: Glory, Glory How He Blew Ya!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZmHC75FDqQ
I used it in a post on my website today that I made after commenting here.
Enjoy.
I wasn't surprised.
It looks like Haggard may be telling the truth for the first time in his life -- "doesn't fit into stereotypical boxes" indeed!
I am partial to Gore Vidal's view of human sexuality (paraphrased): "People have different kinds of sex at different times of their lives for different reasons. One person may have many different kinds of sexual and emotional relationships, serially or simultaneously, without being pathologically damaged."
And as long as all of the sex is mutually consenting, with adults, then IT DOESN'T MATTER.
As for the Haggard family, I feel the most for Mrs. Haggard, who is enjoined by her beliefs to stay with Mr-Fuck-Anything-That-Walks, no matter what he does (or has done to him).
Seems that you really have to lie a lot in the GAWD bidness.
Read the article next to that poll on Ted Haggard.
A lovely example of the No True Scotsman argument right there. Although, I need a new irony meter, especially after that last paragraph ...
Paper Hand, you just need to fuse the input on your irony meter. That has saved me a lot of money on meters. But my fuse budget went up dramatically. Still, the increase in fuse budget was far less than the cost of replacing the meters themselves.
interesting... for one, last i checked homosexuality wasn't a choice, democratic or otherwise. two, most the votes say he's heterosexual. how does that work? is that wishful thinking/projection?
Sili,
I think the article you're looking for is "The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion". The link is http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html
Why?
She's not some innocent, naive little generic hausfrau. She's a member of a hate-filled evangelical megachurch ($$$$$) and someone who willingly married a religious demagogue. Besides, even those with the most myopic gaydar had to know something was not quite right about Ted.
(I have to say here, that I hate when anyone feels entitled to carry on a secret sexual life with others when they have promised to remain sexually faithful to their spouse. If both partners agree on on an open relationship, whatever -go for it.)
Heh heh heh, he said "taint".
I am guessing the logic is that 'everyone is heterosexual' and that 'homosexuality is an excuse for sin' or something along these lines. That's why I submitted this Poll
Sorry Erik, your poll still leaves much to be desired in the choices listed.
@ Sili #33:
Well _I_ was referring to some of the links on the "This must be a very hard question" thread. Eg in this post.
But Ted said he's been cured. He is not gay anymore. All thanks to the lord.
Since he is a fundie preacher, it must be true. He wouldn't just be making stuff up, would he?
Ah, I see Tomecat in #41 got to that link while I was still fighting with the, now rather engorged, thread.
Heh heh heh - SEF said 'engorged'...
This is a case of "Do as I say, not as I do." The [b]Hypocritical Oath[/b]
Too creative for you or not creative enough (for PZ's new regime)?
I just think it's a funny word...
ANDYO @ 19
I subscribed to a Pharynguloid's account during a previous discussion some weeks back. I got nada, bupkis.
That was the general idea, yes.
Incidentally, thread loading (even of relative tiddlers like this one) seems to have slowed down to a crawl all of a sudden (at least from where I'm viewing things in the UK). I'm even getting to see the non-logged in version of the form for ages before the TypeKey minimal version replaces it.
Jadehawk
How's this for wishful thinking?
Oh, crap, the url didn't show up
Wishful thinking
Sorry folks, still working on the html thing
http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/fail-owned-denial-fail.jpg?…
yeah, I remember seeing that one on FSTDT. it hurt my brain :-p
Damn, it sucks that only gay, drugged out , fundy former preachers can have "complex sexuality". I mean, now what am I supposed to do???
become a gay, drugged out, fundy former preacher...?
I haven't talked to many priests or prostitutes, but Osho, an Indian mystic who's now dead, said once that priests talk about sex while prostitutes talk about God. That wouldn't surprise me.
AND, there's a follow-up
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081226174833AA5LmiA
I mean really, mom, the guy hasn't been projecting the gay since he was, what, 6 or 7?
By the way, Jadehawk, we're neighbors, I live in G.F.
The most parsimonious explanation seems to be that Mr. Haggard is just a garden-variety slut.
Like EV said above, who didn't know he was gay? How is it possible for the Mrs. Haggards of the world (and the Mrs. McGreeveys) not to notice what everyone else does? The first time I saw an interview with Ted Haggard - can't remember what it was - I was like, "Oh girrrrlll please." Then I thought about sending him a better haircut, but I didn't.
ha! good to know I'm not the only Pharyngulite in this blasted wasteland
poor kid. that's major drama waiting to happen :-/
Well, that's good, Mrs. Cleaver, because I suspect that's about all his future wife is going to get.
What is surprising, however, is that no one noticed this obvious grammatical error: "...the new disclosures about Haggard are more disturbing because they involves a church volunteer."
And it's on a ton of different websites too! How is it possible that no one noticed it?! D=<
Oh, dear. Giggle fit.
Also, did anyone besides EV look our friend Erik's poll from #44? Get this:
I've polled the other SpokesGays, Erik, and they've authorized me to state our position that you are not a True Person(TM), because no one can be that stupid.
Spokesgay @ 64
Is there a SpokesGay tabulation of how many of these famous flaming godbot ministers have been caught in the motel room with a straw up the nose and a boy up the (deleted, per PZ)??
Kamaka, that is a closely guarded secret, jealously protected by our deviant cabal. Rest assured we will release the figures at a time calculated to produce maximum humiliation and hilarity.
I for one am waiting somewhat impatiently and mostly drunkly for that!
I have never been afraid of the gay before.
it's call "teh gay".
'scuz meh
Isn't "teh gay" something that you get from hanging out with "teh gayz"? That's what I was told by a youtube commenter.
you can get teh gay from a toilet seat
Okay, let's leave Sen. Larry Craig out of this.
It's very contagious. Hence the need to avoid being around, touching or thinking about teh gayz unless you are thinking about burning them at the stake.
RevBDC:
And slinky is a euphemism for...?
Um, like, duh? It's properly "Teh Ghey." But in my capacity as Official SpokesGay(TM), I must project a professional image in all company typography. It's still Teh Ghey, though.
I was in a Minneapolis/St. Paul airport restroom once. But I only took a crap. I think it was about 6 months before that story broke. Makes me wonder what goes through people's minds as they use the facilities now, being in the know.
This is where we are now. Where you have to indicate "but I only took a crap" when talking about public restrooms.
I washed my hands too.
You wash your hands? What a nerd.
This is where we are now. Where you have to indicate "but I only took a crap" when talking about public restrooms.
Hey, wait a minute here, aren't you the shoe-signal guy I've been meeting lately?
Hush Puppies? Brown, with tassels?
Nope. You must be thinking about Frank.
The weird thing is that Ted Haggard can get laid at all, never mind the gender. Yuck.
#67: We've just suffered eight years of Bush's abuse of the English language. It takes time to heal.
Yesterday I heard a five-minute clip of Bush fucking up the language. My favorite was Bush talking about air pollution and he mentioned "carbon binoxide."
Jeanette said:
The weird thing is that Ted Haggard can get laid at all, never mind the gender. Yuck.
At least part of the time, he pays for it. Folks trying to survive will put up with a lot for money.
Not that I have a problem with sex workers -- just Haggard and other hypocrites like him.
Evangelicals are the worst of the worst in my opinion. The minsters are sleazebags. Complete and utter sleazebags.
Best.Thread.Ever. I am crying from laughing so much at the posts, thank you , thank you, thank you. Please, keep it up fellow Pharyngulite ilk as I needed a good laugh today :)
You'd think that a guy with degrees from Yale and Harvard could speak the English gooder than a high school dropout.
Putting the ink in co-inkydink - I was just at a friends' place, and they'd recorded the Dawkins documentary The Root of All Evil?
and I suggested we watch some of it. My friend was fascinated; she'd never seen Dawkins before, nor had she - being an Australian, like me - realised precisely how demented and nonsensical fundamentalists are.
Then, of course, Haggard came on. I nearly wet myself and then had to explain to her exactly why that was, and that I'd only read about his further adventures earlier today. She found it extremely amusing as well.
Can someone die from too much schadenfreude?
90*
"Evangelicals are the worst of the worst in my opinion. The minsters are sleazebags. Complete and utter sleazebags."
Most...if not all...the rabid jeebus lovers are basic to advanced liars...they have to be to make up such ridiculous claims...the skill is in keeping a straight face and twisting scripture to suit!
It has long been fairly obvious that sexual dysfunctionalism is the driving force behind the fundamentalist and evangelistic hysteria and not so much to do with spirituality!
And it is overwhelmingly deluded men that feel the need to rant and rave about sexuality and how evil it is!
This applies equally to all the major religions.
They fear and distrust women with an ignorance born of simple jealousy and are incoherent about gaydom because they are deep down sure that they lust after male and tend to the over compensation...
What you get is a bitter bigoted and totally screwed up fool of a man that is as much victim of religion as the rest of us!
It is the claims by grown men that they 'love' jeebus like star struck fans that gives them away...they cannot help themselves!
Tis homo eroticism taken to extremes as they try and suppress the attraction they really feel...the more wealthy their ministry the longer it takes for the truth to emerge...but sexuality of a public figure will always be revealed sooner or later....especially cos these bunnies are not the brightest and a great amount of cover up is accomplished by their adoring acolytes.
In the meantime they rail and spit poisonous rhetoric...and the closer they come to exposure the greater the bile and acid through fear and self loathing...expect Warren to fall from grace sometime soon!
Those that whine loudest usually are whining through desire to emulate...they literally want a piece of that ass and are severely peeved they cannot get it openly...that is when they take risks...that is when they get busted!
92*
"You'd think that a guy with degrees from Yale and Harvard could speak the English gooder than a high school dropout."
Not when daddy pays the bills...it matters not a jot!
It's really pretty sad - it was pointed out to me that homosexuals brought up in a super-religious environment, like Haggard was, have some parallels with abusive relationships. They can't be themselves, they're told that it's terrible and horrible to be like that, and the only solution is to immerse themselves even more deeply into the environment that hates what they are. It's going to take years and years and years of therapy for him to come to terms with all of that. According to the Washington Post today, he's at least starting to. It's criminal what religion does to people.
Jadehawk: most the votes say he's heterosexual. how does that work?
Teh Gayz don't want him either.
Not yet. But I'm trying.
This might be a good thing. Maybe he'll open people's eyes to the complexities of sexuality. Maybe he'll be able to preach tolerance and .... no, wait. Who am I kidding. He'll still spout the same old hate filled anti-gay bullshit.
My gaydar is far from perfect, and when I was young some of my mannerisms and my awkwardness with women made a lot of people think I was gay, so I certainly don't think one can always discern the sexual orientation of others from externals, but...
the first time I saw Ted Haggard on TV I thought he must be an avant-garde performance artist doing a multilayered imitation: Paul Lynde as a televangelist. Everything about him just screamed "deeply-in the-closet gay." To this day I don't understand how anyone couldn't tell that, or fail to see through his religious schtick for what the moneymaking scheme it always was at heart. Of course, I don't get how Benny Hinn can fill a basketball arena or soccer stadium with suckers, either.
If Haggard weren't a con man, I'd actually feel a little sympathy. He's gotta be really, really, really insecure and unhappy. I do feel deeply sorry for his kids, and--possibly--his wife.
He was scary and slimy enough in "Jesus Camp". That was no documentary. It was a horror movie.
Howzibout we all send Mr Haggerd a "Sorry to Hear About Another Infection of Teh Gayz. Get Well Soon." card?
Carlie @ #96
that article is actually kind of hopeful. If the guy and his family come around and realize that treating other people the way they've been treated is not ok, that would at least be something...
certainly better than that Hipple guy with the "that's different, it's satanic possession!" bullshit, or the women who have abortions and then are out picketing again the next day.
Okay, so he's a bisexual with serious power issues and is into nonconsensual D/s relationships? That's not "complex," it just makes him an assjack.
It does appeal to my love for the theatre of the absurd that the right wingers are always caught out in homosexual scandals while, conversely and equally ironically, it is typically the lefties caught stealing from the cookie jar earmarked for the poor! :D
I thought only gay people had gaydars. Most, I'm told, have upgraded to GayPS. It'll not only tell you the location, but even the coordinates!
Tim Haggard:
Con Man
or
Cum On Man
You decide.
ugh, he's the gay equivelant of the snotty little relation everyone is embarrassed to know that pulls wings off of flies and always has his hands down his pants.
I hope he doesn't embrace his homosexuality. We do have standards and may need to start charging membership to keep out the riffraff.
I have nothing but red hot loathing for this man. He is the perfect repersentation of what I think religios people to be. Not neccesarily in action, but in execution.
I love the line in the article that claims Ted was involved in an inappropriate consensual relationship. What can be inappropriate about a consensual relationship? The other party was of legal age and supposedly sentient. Same old Christian fear of sex I guess.
what a wanker.
I'm sure he simply loves the attention, hes going through what many gay people had the guts to deal with years earlier in their lives and probably with far, far less support.
the whole thing is grotesque, i wonder if ted feels hes going to hell now?? maybe he does but i can bet hes got some grandiose made up on the spot reason why hes actually not going to hell.
im not sure this guy needs any sympathy whatsoever, i just may gloat when some of his fellow christians will tell him hes damned, i just hope he believes it.
maybe its all sincere though, maybe trying to reconcile belief in a vengeful god and a love of cocks is simply too much for some to bear and they simply go crazy.
the whole thing is grotesque, i wonder if ted feels hes going to hell now??
I doubt it. Evangelicals believe in salvation by faith alone. He will argue that if he repents of his sin, he is forgiven and saved through Christ, regardless of what he's done.
It does appeal to my love for the theatre of the absurd that the right wingers are always caught out in homosexual scandals while, conversely and equally ironically, it is typically the lefties caught stealing from the cookie jar earmarked for the poor! :D
LOL, that's very true. If a politician preaches about "family values", he's usually having an illicit affair, often of a homosexual nature. If he talks about "ending sleaze and corruption", he's usually taking bribes under the table, or misusing government information for private purposes. The hypocrisy in public life is quite sad, really.
I sometimes think it'd be easier, running for office, to just say "Yes, I like sex and I like money. If my job enables me to get more of these things, then I'm going to do so. Fuck you." However, anyone who said that wouldn't get many votes (probably rightly, on balance).
walton #113
interesting how they type of behaviour that evolution would predict (gain of status and sex under various guises) seems to be most commited by those who would oppose it.
Hard times ain't hard when you invite a camera crew along. As Master Thespian says: "ACTING!!!"
I don't get HBO. Hopefully someone will let me know how Haggard's shlockumentary turns out.
Maybe Ted should join HA (Homosexuals Anonymous). Yes, their 12 step program can bring you out of homosexual sin, but it has 14 steps.
Or perhaps Ted already was a member, but he stumbled on the steps.
http://www.ha-fs.org/14-steps.htm
My science teacher, Mr. Freshwater, says the origin of life is complicated, but sex is not. Sin is sin.
And you are a bad, bad man. I hope you get the coil!