Who will UVM find to replace Ben Stein?

Really, UVM could have replaced Stein with a half-stuffed teddy bear missing an eye, and it would be an improvement.

Howard Dean is an excellent choice. Go UVM!

I don't think Dean is really a centrist-to-conservative Democrat.

True, he's no Bernie Sanders -- and, as you say, no extremist -- but he is definitely more center-left (within Dems).

Oh, that's good if only for the blood pressure rising anger it will cause in the creationist ID circles.

He's a local too. Six-term Vermont governor.

I've got a couple of ideas, if they want someone in the Stein category. Lydia, a Christian philosopher, has a blog post where she claims that the fact that "animal/human cybrids aren't working" refutes Darwinian evolution -- or at least that Dawkins is committed to this being a refutation. A bit down the comment thread to her own post, she seems to realize that there is no such refutation to be had -- though she tries to hang on to some kind of anti-Dawkins point, anyway. Meanwhile, Francis Beckwith weighs in. Remember him? This is before Lydia has realized that she's made a mistake. So is Beckwith, the evolution vs. ID "expert" commenting to tell Lydia that Dawkins isn't really being refuted by this? No! (Does Beckwith not realize or does he realize but he's just not saying? Which would be worse?) Beckwith is just dropping a very quick comment to call Dawkins a "jackass." We should remember that next time Beckwith starts getting all pious, scolding people for "name calling."

Phylum Chordata: Who would you consider a centrist-to-conservative Democrat? And how is Dean particularly a Leftish Dem?

Bear in mind that the Republicans spent most of last year making clear their beliefs that the Democratic Party (who are more than half the country now) is made up of Lefty-Left-Left, so-far-Left-we're-about-to-tip-over, Left-wing extremists. So it's hard to know what someone means by that.

You could replace him with a half eaten pimento loaf sandwich and I doubt anyone would notice the difference. It would be like coffee vs folgers crystals.

What a strange switch.

The post I'm writing about in comment #6 is here:
http://www.whatswrongwiththeworld.net/2009/02/shouldnt_dawkins_now_say_…

Dean seems to have a bad rep in the country at large, but I lived in VT when he was in charge and I always quite liked him (civil union laws and all).

Howard Dean, Howard Stern, Howie Mandel, all are better choices. Go ahead, pick a Howard!

Hooray! New England redeems itself. I knew I liked it here.

Frasque (#11) - I live in the midwestern US and when I hear people talk about Howard Dean it is always positive.

You could have replaced him with ELIZA. The message would be equally useful, but without his monotonous voice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

Hopefully americans are finally grasping how utterly out of step they've been with countries in broadly the same economic class. At least the citizens of the Soviet Union knew 90% of the crap their government spouted was ... well ... crap.

UHC, careful regulation and modest social provisions are not the harbingers of communism, they are the hallmarks of healthy and enlightened societies.

So sure, for American politics Dean is slightly to the left, but if you transplanted him (and his current political views and policies) to Sweden, or Germany ... he'd be so far to the right, he couldn't be elected. He might have a slight chance in the UK. Maybe somewhere near Borstal.

I'm a Libertarian, which is not the most common i think for an Atheist, but i don't think Dean is too far out there. However libertarians are a different breed politically than the republicrats.

But he holds a coupla them universitty dee-gree thangs, don't he? Sounds like a 'spicious character.

#17: "I'm a Libertarian, which is not the most common i think for an Atheist"

You would be surprised! MOST of the atheists I know, are libertarian! (That's not to say that libertarians are mostly atheists, far from it: I also know some well known DI fellows who are token libertarians. But hey: freedom for all! ;-)

The Doctor is in!

Congrats to UVM graduates! I would love to hear a commencement speech by Howard Dean. CSPAN covers commencement speeches, perhaps this will be one of them.

#17
Michael, you're not alone. I, too am one of those crazy libertarian (small l, thank you very much. You couldn't pay me to join the LP these days, especially after they decided Bob Barr would be a fine choice to run for POTUS.) atheists. Frankly, I'd rather see Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins giving the speech than any present or former congresscritter. Still, all in all, Dean's still a better choice than Ben Stein.

Dust, It would be great if CSPAN would cover Howard Dean's speech. I'd love to hear it but don't live near Vermont.

Does anyone know if CSPAN takes suggestions, and if they do, who would be the most effective folks to contact?

Yes, there are libertarians who are atheists. Just like there are Trokskyites and centerists who are atheists. The only objection we have to libertarians is when they try to proselytize their evangelical faith and take over threads.

I understand he (Dean) does a REALLY good "rebel yell". Or something like that. Hmmm... then again, it can't be 'rebel', so somebody needs to come up with a new term for it. Whatever.

I agree that you could replace Stein with an inanimate object and that would be an improvement. Higher IQ, for starters.
--
www.chl-tx.com Thanks, BHO, for the tremendous boost you have given my business!

Hello Odonata,

I went to the CSPAN website and found this info:

Every summer, C-SPAN offers a selection of the graduation season's college commencement addresses. This year's speeches air on American Perspectives every Sat. at 8pm on C-SPAN.

Email Us at americanperspectives@c-span.org

Also, they have an archive of commencement speeches if you're interested.

YEEEEHHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Yes, there are libertarians who are atheists. Just like there are Trokskyites and centerists who are atheists. The only objection we have to libertarians is when they try to proselytize their evangelical faith and take over threads.

Yes! It's always so frustrating to see any thread with even a semblance of political matters turn into an argument over core ideology.

Thanks Dust. I'll contact CSPAN.

#12: Crystal, how about Pikes Peak Derby Dames announcer Howie Felterbottom?

Is there anything like a leftist in American politics anymore? Kucinich and Feingold? Maybe?

#23 & #27:
Uh...Ok. I wasn't aware that we were attempting to take over your thread there. I was just trying to say hi to a few who might hold the same views as me. Sorry to offend your precious sensibilities.

Sorry to offend your precious sensibilities.

Oh you poor dear. We're silencing you from having the inevitable debate that happens almost every fucking thread when the politics comes up. Go cry that your views aren't wanted, but really it's just it's same shit, different day and it's a shit that gets its stink over everyone nearby.

#32
Nobody's silencing me from anything. I was just saying hi. I wasn't planning on debating my ideological views. I. Was. Just. Saying. Hi.

I propose a new Internet law called Bojan's law(after the unconscious drunk I have just dragged out of a car into my Emergency Department) :

"As a internet discussion involving politics grows longer, the probability of it being hijacked by Libertarians approaches one."

Is there anything like a leftist in American politics anymore? Kucinich and Feingold? Maybe?

Is there anyone THINKING in US politics anymore, or is the void after the Bush-years a big black hole that swallows anything progressive or intelligent?
Hopefully BHO and his administration will help countering the black hole effect, but the US stoopid seems to be still growing.
Conservativism is like sticking your head up your own bum; it might be warm and cosy, but it restricts your views and perspective somewhat.

I propose a new Internet law called Bojan's law(after the unconscious drunk I have just dragged out of a car into my Emergency Department) :

"As a internet discussion involving politics grows longer, the probability of it being hijacked by Libertarians approaches one."

lol, I'm all for that. Let's see if we can get the term to catch on.

Phylum @ #3:

"Center-left within Democrats" is damn near synonymous with "centrist-to-conservative", by the standards of virtually everybody except the GOP.

That strange sound you hear popping in the distance is the percussive explosion of wingnut crania everywhere.

I thought it was the champagne chez Myers.

Some interesting comments at the Chronicle of Higher Education:

http://chronicle.com/news/article/5912/ben-stein-backs-out-of-commencem…

There's really little chance, but sometimes I get so cynical that I fear UVm could go for someone like Don McLeroy, the chairman of the Texas State Board of Education. It would be stupid, I know -- but Gov. Rick Perry just appointed McLeroy to a new term. (Not many details, and it was a late announcement on Friday, it appears -- trying to hide it, I suppose.)

The War on Education, the War on Science, still rages.

There is some talk that Dean might be a good choice to replace Daschle and lead healthcare reform. I agree. He's an evidence based doctor and a pragmatist with strong progressive ideas.

Is there anything like a leftist in American politics anymore? Kucinich and Feingold? Maybe?

well, there is Sen.Bernie Sanders, a self-described Social Democrat

oh pooh, that link worked just fine in preview, don't know what happened.

Sen.Bernie Sanders

Good on them. I am so impressed that, upon being made aware that Ben Stein was in fact a terribly unthoughtful choice to address this year's graduating students (not to mention that honourary degree), steps were quickly taken by the UVM president and I'm sure others involved to rectify their bad decision. It's too bad that they choose BS in the first place, but props to them for admitting their mistake and quickly fixing it.

I noticed in the link you posted, PZ, that Howard Dean will also be receiving an honourary degree. Jeese, what a great honour that must be for him to be receiving BS's sloppy seconds degree. It's almost like these honourary degrees don't mean much, or something.

Brian Coughlan at #16 seems to have been the one starting the political crap this time.

@mayhempix #41

I've heard the Dean for HHS idea getting floated around online and on Air America a lot now - sounds like a good idea to me, although I'm sure Dean has flaws I'm unaware of.

According to HuffPo it looks like Sen. Tom Harkin might be pushing for Dean now, so maybe the idea will get some traction.

Mother Batherick, if you're new here, you may not be aware that there are a few resident silly Libertarians who kinda cause the rest of us to associate the term with great frustration and annoyance. A lot of the debates have really been done to death.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/02/cutting_science_already.php has some good examples of why most of the regulars have learned that the arrival of libertarians tend to lead to flame wars and facepalms.

@ 47
Hey Falyne, I can dig that. And I'm not interested in debating politics with anyone. You got your way, Kel has his (his?) and I got mine, and it's no skin off my ass to not talk political ideology. Like I told Kel, I was just saying hi.
And being a veteran of numerous interlibertarian debates that have devolved into flamewars I can totally understand why anyone here would want to avoid that sort of nonsense. It's kinda liked being pecked to death by chickens. ;)

Howard Dean? Well... *sigh, grumble*

Is it possible to get any scholar that people don't know enough about in there?

Like Frank Boles?

I wonder if Dean will give his famous campaign-ending "I have a scream" speech.

Molly NYC:

For one thing, Dean opposed the war, early and often. I'm sad to say that was a rare and decidedly leftist position.

He's also for a universal health model that, while not "socialized medicine," is to the left of what many (any?) of the current House and Senate members think. (Of course Dean was a governor but never mind.)

His 50-state approach while DNC chair was, compared to his predecessor (and I think, the current dude) positively radical.

There are many more issue where he's left, not right of center but you get the idea.

Who would I consider conservative-to-centrist? There are many but you can start with Hillary Clinton.

Bear in mind that the Republicans spent most of last year making clear their beliefs that the Democratic Party (who are more than half the country now) is made up of Lefty-Left-Left, so-far-Left-we're-about-to-tip-over, Left-wing extremists.

I'm not sure how this bears on PZ's statement that "he's a centrist-to-conservative Democrat." He's not, irrespective of how the Republicans attempt to paint the opposition.

Dear Prudence, surely you're aware that the "scream" speech was a normal speech given to supporters that was endlessly replayed by the media because of some audio weirdness.

Of course, Dean was the only major candidate in '04 who said the Iraq war was a mistake. SURELY not the reason the media -- the media that diligently investigated the lies leading to the war -- tried to play that thing into the ground.

Regarding #30's leftists: Kucinich is closer to the libertarians than to the left (in the same sense that Ron Paul is closer to the libertarians than the right). While I disagree with some of his fiscal policy, let's not forget he was one of the only 12 House Democrats with the courage to vote against the spectacularly bad "stimulus" package we're considering now.

And Feingold (despite some anti-free speech stances and a few other quibbles) voted against the Patriot Act and Iraq War resolution, favors legalized same-sex marriage, wants a Constitutional amendment estopping governors from making senatorial appointments, and has the support of the libertarian-leaning Democratic Freedom Caucus. Again, we can quibble over some leftist fiscal policy.

Some of the anti-libertarians here might consider that we agree with you on more than you seem to think; I hope you aren't going to be so dogmatic as to require kneejerk 100% compliance with your views. And we're not trying to hijack "your" thread. We're just saying: "Yes, we know Democrats will be glad that Dean is going to be there; in fact, we libertarians think he's an improvement over Stein as well." So as Oppenheimer would say, ahimsa all around.

"Yes, we know Democrats will be glad that Dean is going to be there; in fact, we libertarians think he's an improvement over Stein as well."

You know what they say about stopped clocks and correctness.

Maybe Howard Dean can take the place of Tom Daschle for HHS, the healthcare reform Czar, etc.

Maybe Howard Dean can take the place of Tom Daschle for HHS, the healthcare reform Czar, etc.

I agree with Neil B. After all, Howard Dean doesn't just play one on TV, it's OK, he's a doctor.

BYAAHHHHHH!!!!

What is UVM? It would help to explain that up front.

UVM is University of Vermont.

Given how bland, uninteresting and downright boring most political personalities present themselves to be, it is a great relief to me to see some colorful characters such as Howard DeeEYEEAAAHan every now and then.

Let's not be medieval-Christian about it; I'm a Libertarian myself, so I'll have my disagreements with Dean. That said, please don't throw me off a cliff to see if the hot-air-beliefs in a New World Order will lift me up in place of my falling to my death. As hard as I'm sure it is to acknowledge there are plenty of rational-headed Libertarians out there(I DID like Ron Paul for a number of reasons, but I think most of them could be attributed to my intense contrarian-nature towards established authority).

If there's one thing we can all agree on here, it's that Dean will do an excellent job in the wake of Stein's expulsion - it should be a screaming good time.

Now we've just got to get him in at HHS. Howard Dean is exactly the sort of politician we need more of in America, the kind who will move left instead of right and come out on the correct side of history.

Can I get a yeeha?