First it was Santino the chimpanzee flinging rocks at his captors, and now a monkey kills his slave-driving owner with a coconut. You all better be nice to your fellow primates, you hear, or you'll be up against the wall in the imminent revolution.
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Santino is my hero. He was kept imprisoned in a cage, and his response was to throw rocks at his obnoxious captors. He'd scavenge the prison yard at night for whatever loose stones he could find, and he'd cache them for the morning. When there weren't enough rocks, he'd pound the concrete retaining…
In 1997, Swedish inspectors found several stockpiles of missiles hidden in a local zoo. Apparently, the arsenal had been gathered together for the express purpose of being used against civilians. And who was the mastermind behind this collection? A 19-year-old chimpanzee called Santino.
Santino…
A typical adult human recognizes that the image one sees in a mirror is oneself. We do not know how much training a mirror-naive adult requires to do this, but we think very little.
When a typical adult macaque (a species of monkey) looks in the mirror, it sees another monkey. Typical adult male…
A typical adult human recognizes that the image one sees in a mirror is oneself. We do not know how much training a mirror-naive adult requires to do this, but we think very little.
When a typical adult macaque (a species of monkey) looks in the mirror, it sees another monkey. Typical adult male…
Are we creating the pressures that cause them to evolve greater intelligence?
I'll wager that it won't take long before apes and monkeys are smarter than Charlie Wagner and those like him.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Caesar said "No"!
I hate every ape I see
From Chimpan-A to Chimpan-Zee
I thought it was the cephalopods that were going to take over. Now it is the monkey and chimps? Or is it just the cephalopods' plan to have the monkeys revolt, then take over during all the confusion?
and your opinion, which is of no consequence at all.
Get your coconuts off me you damned, dirty monkey!
Damnit! I had professor Plum in the library with a candlestick.
first the cylons rebel and now this. What's next? a class action lawsuit from elephants?
Damn, I bet the beach-front condos are going to be the front lines in the upcoming cephalopod vs. monkey war, after the humans are wiped out.
Happy Monkey!
How long before some creationist idiot tries to blame this on Darwin?
a class action lawsuit from elephants?
Wouldn't be a bad idea; the street elephants in Thailand are usually not treated very well. These are elephants who are taken around the streets to beg for money. They usually don't get enough to eat, the hard streets aren't good for their feet at all, and they get lonely since elephants are social animals. I have to admit it's neat to unexpectedly ride your motorcycle past an elephant on a city street -- not something I ever do at home -- but the animals shouldn't be there doing that.
Thankfully there are some rescue agencies which help, and some of the elphant camps (where they do shows like the painting and rides) are well run and treat their charges right, plus they have the companionship of other elephants.
Well I, for one, welcome our new chimpanzee overlords.
Oh, great, "The Planet of the Apes" movies were a prophetic documentary!
~David D.G.
Vive la Evolucion!
Does anyone know the fate of the monkey? Aren't animals that kill a human euthanized, regardless of circumstance?
also:
Wow, talk about cluelessness...
Wes, if it weren't for Darwin these monkeys would never have thought to evolve. The bible doesn't say anything about them evolving!
Years ago, I was visiting the zoo in Melbourne, Australia. They had a great ape secttion with an outdoor enclosure for gorillas. A beautiful silver back gorilla, if I remember correctly.
Well a bunch of unruly schoolboys started taunting the poor gorilla -- catcalls, then they escalated to throwing sticks and small pebbles at him.
From where I was standing, I could see the gorilla quietly take a nice shit. As the schoolboys continued their tormenting him, the gorilla slowly reached around behind himself, scooped up a nice wad of shit, jumped up, and threw it right at the little bastards!
Revenge! I hated to see the the gorilla tormented, but I was delighted to see him strike back.
Ah, memories . . .I'll never forget that noble gorilla.
I agree, this godless monkey is obviously a Darwinist.
And the Bible says you should kill people by throwing stones at them, not coconuts. Clearly the evilutionists are responsible for this.
"Now, stand up and FIGHT LIKE APES!!!!!"
We're really going to be in trouble when the pigeons start to organize. Those little fuckers are everywhere.
More importantly, Do we know what happened to the monkey after the police figured out what had happened?
I'd call it self defence considering he was beaten:
We have bigger problems in my area, lake gulls and Canadian geese.
Hard times are coming. The war against the apes will be fought with gorilla warfare.
Feynmamiac
"Damnit! I had professor Plum in the library with a candlestick."
That's funny, I had Miss Scarlet in the library!
With the candlestick ;)
Where will it all end?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7940052.stm
My first thought too, is what will be the fate of the monkey now? He needs a good lawyer.
It it all practice for the coming revolution. They are studying us, finding out our weaknesses. The plan is already afoot:
http://abstrusegoose.com/112
Maybe they're all members of the same fowl conspiracy.
Nerd of Redhead, are you in the Chicago area too? BTW, it's "Canada geese", not "Canadian geese". Damn, now I sound like my husband...
Mena, I live between Chicago and Milwaukee (hence Chiwaukee) near the state line. And I'm only a couple of miles from the lake. Correction noted.
Ah, but it's the Canadian Canada geese that you really have to worry about. Damn socialists.
So Nerd, which side do you fall on, Packers or Bears?
Not my post, but C.M. Baxter gave this brilliant story on the original revenge-of-the-apes thread:
You may not believe the following story but it really happened.
During the mid-70s my wife and were at the San Francisco Zoo and we made it a point to visit the chimpanzee exhibit. At that time there was a long, curved fence about three feet high and just inside was a water filled moat and then the exhibit itself, which was made to look like a shallow cave or rock shelter. There was just my wife and I at one end of the fence and three young guys, probably collage students, at the other. A couple of chimps were present and then a little door in the back wall opened and a third chimp emerged. He was much older than the other two, half bald with liver spots on his head and facial vitiligo.
The three kids at the other end of the fence began making fun of the old guy, pointing at him, laughing, hooting like monkeys and so on. This obviously pissed the chimp off because he peeled his lips back and started screaming at them, shaking his head and waving his arms around. He picked up what looked like a small sitting mat made of several layers of burlap sown together and started flapping it around an doing this crazy little dance. Then he rushed to the edge of the moat and hurled it underhand at the guys. One of them caught the mat and sailed it back at him.
By this time, a sizable crowd had gathered along the fence and we were all cheering the chimp on. The other two chimps just sat there watching the whole thing. The old guy once again picked up the mat, did his little ritual dance, then ran out and tossed it at them. Now they were leaning well out over the fence to catch it and throw it back. This went on a couple more times and it began to look like a friendly game of catch between man and monkey. We would all soon discover, however, that the game was anything but friendly and who the monkeys really were.
Finally, the old chimp did his dance and charged toward the moat and the three guys now leaning over the fence to catch the mat. This time, instead of throwing the mat to the guys, he swung his arm back and threw it behind him. Then on the down swing, he scooped up a pile of chimp shit (I don’t think any one even noticed it being there) and let fly. The poor guys never had a chance and each received his fair share. The crowd went absolutely wild, as did all three chimps who started jumping up and down, doing summer-salts and screaming. The three guys didn’t seem to share in the excitement but instead quickly walked away, brushing ape shit from their faces and clothes. That episode remains one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen.
Sorry for the long story but when I read PZ’s post about Santino planing ahead, you can see why I wasn’t in the least surprised.
When the damn dirty apes take over I hope they get all "eugenics" on our asses.
Geese can't be canadian citizens now?
Janine, I don't follow pro football much. Just my undergraduate institution in college football, since they usually have a winning season.
waldteufel:
my father tells a similar story about two gorillas at the Como Zoo in saint paul. some college age guys were jumping up and down making monkey noises. Don, the gorilla, got annoyed, picked up some poo and threw it at them. it hit the glass right in front of them with a loud splat. the college guys were very quiet after that.
I guess I should hope they DON'T get all eugenics on our asses.
and now a nice story about a gorilla.
a friend from college was with her dad viewing some gorillas in the wild in africa (kenya?). the guide told them not to make eye contact and don't try to physically contact them. the gorillas got up to leave and walked single file right by the humans. one stopped in front of my friend's dad, patted him on the back, then continued on with the rest of the pack.
Thats why I say hey ape nice shot
What a good shot ape
Nerd, that was meant more as a joke than anything else. While I rarely get north of Evanston, I am well aware of how some people fight over their alliance up in the borderlands. It is kind of how Cubs and Cards fans fight it out in downstate Illinois.
Nerd of Redhead, I'm in beautiful and scenic (yeah, right) Dupage county. Home of Perry Mastodon, but also Wheaton College. We have tons of geese, citizenship unknown but I suspect that they are all US citizens since they seem to be here all year. No flying up to Soviet Cagoosistan for the summer for them!
That probably wouldn't work out so well. Any elephants called as material witnesses would get absolutely demolished on cross-examination, since hedging statements like "I cannot recall" just wouldn't fly.
If the monkey's job was to throw down coconuts, then it is likely the owner was just hit by accident.
Mena, I used to live just a few blocks from North Park College. And when I worked as a bike messenger, I made a few pick ups at Moody Bible Institute. It was always fun to look over the creationist literature posted on the walls there.
Heh, heh.
Not only happy monkey, but satisfied monkey.
Janine, you are right. My not backing either team saves a lot of ribbing at work. I don't get into Cook county except for when going around the lake to visit family or picking up the Redhead downtown after an opera.
Mena, I've been to the Dupage fair grounds often. The Redhead likes gem and mineral shows, and the Dupage county shows have been her favorites.
I read a nice story about an Orangutan (it was in the Guardian - apologies to the original author):
The author was on Safari in Indonesia. She got up just before dawn to wonder down to the watering hole, as you would. As she was walking along a jungle trail in the gathering light, she was astounded to hear a rustle, and then to see a large female Orangutan coming towards her. She stopped. The Orangutan came up to her and grabbed her fore-arm then, calmly stood next to her. Some minutes passed. Not freaked out, but a little nervous, the woman eventually pulled gently on her arm to get away, but the ape's grip was strong - clearly neither of them were moving. Just as she was beginning to seriously wonder what to do, there was another rustle in the undergrowth a few yards ahead, and then a crocodile emerged. It crossed the path in front of her, passed on, and then came the sound of it slithering into the water hole. There was a silence. Then. gently, the ape released her grip and the woman was free. The ape disappeared back into the jungle and the woman, very shaken, went back to the lodge.
When she told the story to the local guide, he was equally astonished, but had an explanation. It appears that crocodiles, at dawn, would lie in wait in the undergrowth for easy prey - come first light, they would go to the waterhole, whether they had eaten or not. The ape, said the guide, had saved her life.
I mean....wow.
their all going apeshit lol
"The ape, said the guide, had saved her life. I mean....wow."
Considering Orangs are an endangered species these days because of human activities, they may not be so quick to save people now.
How can an Orang act altruistically if the Orang does not believe in god?
AnthonyK (@38) that's a great story!
I love stories about animals being crafty. The BBC had a piece many years ago about Delhi being overrun by monkeys. The authorities would trap them and set them free in the jungle. But then the monkeys would jump on the roofs of buses heading back to the city. The story said the monkeys were even able to figure out which bus to take!
A few years ago I read a story about birds in Japan that would place nuts at intersections so cars would roll over them and crack them for them.
@Vic - "Caesar said "No"!
HAR!™
Ah, if only Perry could have seen this....
This topic needs sound and video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWBvp2VmF9k
You are very welcome.
I think it must have been an Oran god tan....
Animal abuse is sickening. I really hope that they don't euthanize the animal.
Maybe monkeys aren't getting smarter, but humans (at least some of them) are getting dumber. Maybe there have always been monkeys who throw coconuts at people, and people knew to avoid them or not make them angry in the first place. It doesn't take a genius to realize that if you beat an animal, it might try to hurt you.
I'm sure this sort of thing must happen frequently, but coming on the heels of the Santino story it sure does highlight the need for us to reconsider how some species are being treated.
With coconuts, and rocks, and feces
Daring plots, and cunning plans,
The battle's on! The warring species
Want the crown that once was man's.
The apes will have the upper hand,
Unbound by superstitious gods,
And when it's done, they'll rule the land--
The seas belong to cephalopods.
"Great apes are highly intelligent and social animals and research laboratory environments involving invasive research cannot meet their complex social and psychological needs."
Support the Great Ape Protection Act of 2009, which says:
"No person shall conduct invasive research on a great ape."
And:
"No person shall knowingly breed, possess, rent, loan, donate, purchase, sell, house, maintain, lease, borrow, transport, move, deliver, or receive a great ape for the purpose of conducting invasive research on such great ape."
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.+1326:
I'm not surprised. If you piss off a cat, don't be surprised to find a surprise in the toe of your boot.
HAA! HAA!
See? Happy Monkey leads to neo-rational, militant, neo-Darwinian tyranny! Dinesh was right by golly.
Well, now that the uprising has begun, you all had better find out just how many angry monkeys you can take on:
http://www.quizmymates.com/how-many-angry-monkeys-could-you-take-in-a-f…
I can take up to about 175 monkeys in a fight.
not much, I know, but I'm more of a strategery kind a guy.
Glen @ #1
I'll wager that it won't take long before apes and monkeys are smarter than Charlie Wagner and those like him.
Are you sure they're not there already?
No animal behavior here but...
I was in my teens (long, long, long ago) when I visited a zoo. At that time, gorillas and other apes were kept in large prison cells, basically. I will always remember looking into the eyes of a gorilla and suddenly realizing that there was someone - not some thing - looking back. He/she was bored and watching the people was all it had to pass the endless time. It was an amazing revelation for me and the personhood of that gorilla changed my views about a lot of things, god not the least of them.
This is all happening because we slacked off after wiping out our cousins the Neanderthals. Now is the time to finish the job, Death to all other primate species!
Posted by: Flori-DUH Rob | March 12, 2009 12:56 PM
Happy Monkey!
Hm, more like Pissed-off monkey!
Never give up! Never surrender!
I'm heading to the nearest zoo to spread counter-revolutionary terror right now!
Weaponized banana squad! You're with me! Move out!
Ichthyic - There must be something screwy with that monkey fight test. I got 225 - 335 monkeys.
The revolution will have begun when the monkeys join PETA.
What's that? They already have!
Are you sure they're not there already?
judging by CW's completely OT commentary in the solar power thread, you might be correct.
PZ really needs to improve his banned-troll filters.
I got 225 - 335 monkeys.
that just means your heading for the front lines, soldier!
;)
p.s. think you could train up a squad of attack chickens?
disgruntled monkey + coconut = MURDER
AnthonyK,
Thanks for reviving my little story from the other thread. Even after all these years I still have to build up the courage to tell it because I’m afraid people won’t believe me.
Posted by: Ichthyic | March 12, 2009
I got 225 - 335 monkeys.
that just means your heading for the front lines, soldier!
;)
p.s. think you could train up a squad of attack chickens?
You are asking for trouble!
Someone at The Daily Grail made an interesting connection on the subject in an earlier post. See -
Whoa! Only the first line got Comic Sansed.
No chipanzee makes me bleed my own blood!
@66 "Strategery?"
Have you been eating fruit from the Bush of knowledge?
No thanks, 8 years of Bush was more than enough.
The animal conspiracy continues...
http://www.vaguebuttrue.com/
A couple of years ago there was a diary commercial involving banana flavoured custard (vla) and chimps, the commercial showing that chimps preferred the custard over a real banana, when faced between the choice of the custard & the real thing.
A Dutch news show mirrored the commercial set-up with a more realistic result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmUl0yiAupE
It's not just primates who know how to deal with humans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xt84r9qjfU
Nuh-uh! The bananas were a weapon made for us and our specially-modified monkey hands, by an omnisicent god, for just such an eventuality. (Weren't they, Ray? ...Ray?)
Ichthyic,
Apparently, I can take between 250 - 350 monkeys. I guess those are some pretty small monkeys.
did he have a leesance for that menkie?
About time....
I guess those are some pretty small monkeys.
*shhh* keep this under your hat:
that test hasn't been adjusted for their current level of training and organization (we want people to be encouraged to enlist in the fight!).
If people knew the real truth, they'd run screaming.
My wife and I are always joking about how one night the dogs will wake us up by ripping our throats out because we were late in feeding them one too many times or some such offense...
"You musn't high hat him(the monkey)-- he's our cousin, you know"
http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Godless_Girl_Silent_Film_Don_t_High_Hat_the_M…
http://www.geocities.com/emruf5/godlessgirl.html
I've always thought that the (completely anthropomorphized, I readily admit) expression that house cats often appear to have on their face when regarding humans was suggesting something along the lines of "If I were larger, say, tiger-sized . . . I would eat you."
No kings,
Robert
I really hope Heaven doesn't exist, if only for this dead monkey owner's sake. I mean, can you imagine the embarrassment ??
St Peter - 'Shot to death while trying to stop a bank robbery ?? Okay, you pass. Head on through the gates. Now ... How did you die, my good man ??'
Owner - 'I uuuuh, that is it say ... I ummm. A ... a monkey threw a coconut at me.'
St Peter - 'You died ... when a monkey threw coconut at you ?? I'm sorry sir we don't let characters from early 90's nintendo games into Heaven.'
There is a joke to be made here about being used to having chimpanzees in control after the last eight years, but far be it from me to articulate it...
Has everyone already forgotten the horrible tragedy last month of Travis the chimp?
Here's an AP story on it:
-
STAMFORD, Conn. – Travis the chimpanzee, a veteran of TV commercials, was
the constant companion of a lonely Connecticut widow who fed him steak, lobster
and ice cream. He could eat at the table, drink wine from a stemmed glass, use
the toilet, and dress and bathe himself.
He brushed his teeth with a Water Pik, logged on to a computer to look at photos
and channel-surfed television with the remote control.
But on Monday, the wild animal in him came out with a vengeance.
The 200-pound animal viciously mauled a friend of his owner before being shot to
death by police.
Investigators are trying to figure out why — whether it was a bout of Lyme
disease, a reaction to drugs, or a case of instinct taking over.
"It's hard to say what exactly precipitated this behavior," said Colleen McCann,
a primatologist at the Bronx Zoo. "At the end of the day, they are not human and
you can't always predict their behavior and how they or any other wild animal
will respond when they feel threatened."
Travis attacked 55-year-old Charla Nash as Sandra Herold frantically stabbed her
beloved pet with a butcher knife and pounded him with a shovel. Nash was in
critical condition Tuesday with "life-changing, if not life-threatening,"
injuries to her face and hands, Mayor Dannel Malloy said.
Police said they are looking into the possibility of criminal charges. A pet
owner can be held criminally responsible if he or she knew or should have known
that an animal was a danger to others.
In recordings of calls to 911 dispatchers released Tuesday, Travis' grunts can
be heard as a frantic Herold cries that her pet is "eating" Nash and must be
killed. The attack lasted about 12 minutes.
"The chimp killed my friend!" says a sobbing Herold, who was hiding in her
vehicle. "Send the police with a gun. With a gun!"
The dispatcher later asks, "Who's killing your friend?"
"My chimpanzee!" she cries. "He ripped her apart! Shoot him, shoot him!"
After police arrive, one officer radios back: "There's a man down. He doesn't
look good," he says, referring to Nash. "We've got to get this guy out of here.
He's got no face."
Police said that Travis was agitated earlier Monday and that Herold had given
him the anti-anxiety drug Xanax in some tea. Police said the drug had not been
prescribed for the 14-year-old chimp.
In humans, Xanax can cause memory loss, lack of coordination, reduced sex drive
and other side effects. It can also lead to aggression in people who were
unstable to begin with, said Dr. Emil Coccaro, chief of psychiatry at the
University of Chicago Medical Center.
"Xanax could have made him worse," if human studies are any indication, Coccaro
said.
Stephen Rene Tello, executive director of Primarily Primates, a sanctuary for
chimps in Texas, said it is difficult to say what effect Xanax would have on a
chimp, but he noted that chimps and humans have similar physiology.
Investigators said they were also told that Travis had Lyme disease, a
tick-borne illness with flu-like symptoms that can lead to arthritis and
meningitis in humans.
"Maybe from the medications he was out of sorts," Stamford police Capt. Richard
Conklin said.
Herold could not be reached for comment. A woman answering the door at Herold's
home, where drops of blood stained the walkway, would not speak to reporters
Tuesday. Conklin said Herold was "traumatized by this very, very brutal attack."
Don Mecca, a family friend from Colchester, N.Y., said Herold, whose daughter
died several years ago in a car accident, fed the chimp steak, lobster, ice
cream and Italian food.
Herold built the chimpanzee a large cage in her home. She knew chimps could be
dangerous but found it hard to part with Travis, Mecca said.
McCann of the Bronx Zoo said chimpanzees are unpredictable and dangerous even
after living among humans for years.
"I don't know the effects of Lyme disease on chimpanzees, but I will say that
it's deceiving to think that if any animal is, quote-unquote, well-behaved
around humans that means there is no risk involved to humans for potential
outbursts of behavior," she said. "They are unpredictable, and in instances like
this you cannot control that behavior or prevent it from happening if it is in a
private home."
Connecticut law requires anyone who owns a primate heavier than 50 pounds to
obtain a state permit. But Herold was exempted from the law.
"Given that the family in Stamford owned Travis before this law was put on the
books, and the fact that over the years the animal did not appear to present a
public safety risk, their possession of the chimpanzee was allowed to continue,"
said Dennis Schain, spokesman for the state Department of Environmental
Protection.
When he was younger, Travis starred in TV commercials for Old Navy and
Coca-Cola, made an appearance on the "Maury Povich Show" and took part in a
television pilot, according to a 2003 story in The Advocate newspaper of
Stamford.
"He's been raised almost like a child by this family," Conklin said. "He rides
in a car every day. He opens doors. He's a very unique animal in that aspect. We
have no indication of what provoked this behavior at all."
Associated Press Writers Stephanie Reitz and Pat Eaton-Robb in Hartford
contributed to this report
-
Show business, the highlife, ice cream, Xanax...(Lyme disease? NAH.)
SOMETHING drove this one crazy enough to eat someone's face off, and repeated stabbings and whacking with a shovel didn't stop him. The police had to shoot him.
Whatever sent him over the edge, one thing is clear: human hubris and stupidity played a major part.
Yeah, I got into the 250-350 monkey range, too. They don't specify which monkey type they are counting, though.
I once watched a monkey troupe in which the biggest monkey was beating up on the smaller monkeys. I might be able to beat up 250 of the small ones, one at a time, but that big guy was pretty tough.
Before that, I was once told there was a monkey up a tree, and I ran over expecting to see something cute and cuddly. Instead, a thing like a pitbull with four hands came screaming down to thump in front of me. I'd have run, but I didn't have time to move before he was gone, moving 'way faster than I could have.
Was he wearing a sandwich board that read "Laugh now but one day we'll be in charge"?
"I've always thought that the (completely anthropomorphized, I readily admit) expression that house cats often appear to have on their face when regarding humans was suggesting something along the lines of "If I were larger, say, tiger-sized . . . I would eat you.""
I think leopard-sized would do it, since leopards pretty much specialize in eating primates (apparently including every variety of great ape, human and otherwise)
The cat is just waiting for you to die, so that it can eat you. That doesn't mean you can't pet and feed it, if it wants you to.
That arises an interesting question:
If apes (and maybe monkeys) show more signs of intelligent and planning behaviour, and if some day they might even get included in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (or something alike), i.e. given specific rights based on their cognitive abilities... Do we also charge apes/monkeys with (aggravated) assault or even murder? And how could such a trial look like, since the accused presumably could not properly comunicate with their human judges/jury etc.?
And I'm not speaking of this nonsense. I mean a real, fair trial, with defence counsel and everything. Is such a thing conceiveable?
Oh... and I'm all for the chimp. What an asshole that human was. Piece of shit slaver.
Given the fact that in order to draft any such document of stated rights for/with them, we'd have to have been able to communicate with them in some form, then you'd simply handle it in the same manner you'd handle any other case in which a foreign-language speaker is on trial. Namely, hire an individual who knows how to communicate with them. Not that hard.
I know next to nothing about the American legal system, but I don't think communication is necessary. You can bestow the right to live on an animal when it is facing extinction, for example (Thinking of the Red List). Or you can formulate an Animal Law that defines how animals are to be treated.
I must admit that its not the same thing as bestowing human rights on apes. But then again, we do give human rights to newborn babies, yet the comunication is still limited...
And yes, we do not charge babies with murder, since they are considered to have no criminal liability. But at a certain point of maturity, that changes, and people become liable for their actions.
I guess that answers my own question. You need to be fairly developed to be legally accountable for what you do. When apes manage to survive mankind to that day, there will be means of communication. (Couldn't think of that in my first posting, I'm way too tired - it's 1pm atm where i live)
Sorry for stealing your time :-)
A sure sign that if I spank my monkey I'm going to hell!
Posted by: Devysciple | March 12, 2009 8:14 PM
It is, because justice is not a one-way street. In the American legal system, communication is mandated, because the defendant must be able to understand the charges against them, and subesquently enter a plea answering the charges. If not, they are deemed incompetent to stand trial.
Yeah, that was my point. It may be a ways off, but on a long enough time scale, I don't think that concept falls within the realm of impossibility by any means.
What? Is it no longer safe for me to sit under da coconut tree and drnk my rum? But why would anyone want to enslave a poor monkey when it'll work for peanuts?
The chimpanzee Frodo from Gombe snatched, killed, and ate several babies from the villagers living nearby. The attacks were as far as anyone could tell, unprovoked.
So was Frodo guilty of kidnapping and murder?
I note some young children, afforded rights and protections but not considered legally responsible for their action, do not, in fact, ever become legally accountable, as a result of developmental disability. If we grant rights to apes, then I think they would probably fall into that same category.
And if Frodo and other apes ever were competent to answer charges against them, I presume one of their first defenses would be to argue humans don't have jurisdiction to try them.
Some kind of treaty would have to be negotiated first, I would think. Though we'd be lucky if they don't just declare war on us first, with self-defense as causus belli.
I got it, Newfie. Good one! But I always heard it as "minkey." No, that's not quite right either...I don't think we have that sound in English.
OT Speaking of violence blamed on Darwin, today I encountered this book on the "New Arrivals" shelf at my local library.
As the book's web site's text seems to closely resemble its back-cover blurbs, I'll borrow a few lines from the latter:
I took the book to the reference desk and pointed out to the nearest librarian that it had been Dewey-Decimalized into the History section, but the very first sentence of the text inside the cover described it as a "novel". We both agreed that a quick skim indicated it was dreary dreck on whatever shelf it sat, and she wrote a note to the classification team about our discussion, promising they would "beat it with a stick" until a proper categorization was achieved.
Yet more Darwin-inspired thrashing, hurray! Maybe I should go back to the library tomorrow and give them a coconut.
(ahem!) Above blockquote lifted from the "former" (web site), not "latter" (back-cover blurbs).
Are we creating the pressures that cause them to evolve greater intelligence?
Maybe they could join the Republican Party and increase its average IQ.
"beat it with a stick" until a proper categorization was achieved.
meaning until it was turned back into wood pulp, whereupon it would obtain the correct categorization of "trash for disposal"?
Amphiox 109
I'm going to be like really unpopular but...
It appears that Frodo only took and killed one human infant. I fear that even one such event would have been enough to cap the ol' boy. That or people have to stay out of the area, including Goodall because Frodo was clearly a serious threat. He once gave JG a serious thrashing as well.
Titanis walleri
It's revenge, for all those fashion accessories primates have created over the years.
No kings,
Robert
At #47 Janine, Insulting Sinner wrote:
At first, I was a little surprised by this statement, as Janine didn't seem to me like someone who would've ever cruised, even via bike, for Bible school co-eds, but then, I've heard enough stories about how naughty those Bible believin' gals can be....
If we're drawing lines, I'm joining the "other" apes. Yessir, it's termites, fermented fruit and psychoactive insect toxins for me. Beats the hell out of taxes, wearing the right fashions and insipid human social grooming behaviour. Anyone who don't want their face bitten off and their chest caved in with a femur better do the same!
I knew there was a reason I never liked monkeys.
Good thing that evolution is true, so that soon there will be no more of them.