Michele Bachmann gave a science lecture to congress. As you might imagine, this was a grand spectacle of stupidity.
Just a few things that jumped out at me (I'm sure you can find more by listening carefully, but I could not bear to pay too much attention).
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She repeats over and over that CO2 is a natural gas. Yes, we know…no one is claiming otherwise. (Also, what would an "unnatural" gas be, anyway?) Nitrogen is also a natural substance, it helps plants grow, and we produce perfectly natural nitrogenous materials from our bodies — so does that mean that we should stop sewer services and allow everyone to wallow in their poop?
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She claims that not one study has ever been produced to show that CO2 is harmful, and she goes further to claim that CO2 is a harmless gas. We could correct that in just a few minutes: give me a large tank of CO2 and a small room containing Michele Bachmann, and we'll give her a personal experience.
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The atmosphere is 3% CO2? Is she really that ignorant? It's more like 0.03%. And again, no one is arguing that CO2 is evil — it's that its concentration has distinct effects on the temperature of the planet, and that concentration is changing.
I apologize, world. We'll try harder to get this loon out of office at the next election. Until then, could you all either just ignore her, or point and laugh?
(via Mock, Paper, Scissors)
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How the hell did she get elected?
Between you and Greg Laden I have had more than my fill of this IRL troll.
Feynmaniac, you know, this is the United States, right?
Human activity contributes 3% of the 3%... in other words, human activity is 3% of the 3%!
WTF? If that doesn't qualify as talking out of one's ass, I don't know what does.
ditto. she does surprise me every time with just how much violently stupid things can emanate from a single person
I tried, PZ; I honestly tried, but I just can't watch or listen to more than about a minute of this video. What the heck motivates the scientifically illiterate to stand in front of a microphone and pretend to sound intelligent by talking about things they simply know nothing about?
It's embarrassing enough to live in Florida, given our history in trying to push religion into K-12 science classes - I can't imagine what the folks in Minnesota must go through every day with this dingbat as a representative.
What the f...?
If this were a 7th grade student presentation this woman would get an "F". I mean...does she actually know what global warming is and why CO2 levels are important?
She hasn't a damn clue what she is talking about.
What was the subject which produced this farrago of nonsense? I couldn't listen to the end.
Well, she is right. CO2 is a natural gas. Makes you wonder what the fuss about hurricane Katrina was. After all, H2O is a natural liquid.
At least there is something to keep an eye on some of the crazier things she says... Democrats create 'truth' squad targeting Bachmann ... Bachmann Watch.
I suggest we push for a movement to inject Ms. Bachman with enough mercury to account for 3% of her body weight; She learns (transiently ) about the importance of balance and proportion, antivaxers finally get a "study" they can believe in and we're rid of the whole mess.
... yet more proof that stupid people can get elected to public office if there are enough stupid people to vote for them...
just who was her opposition anyway i wonder? was he/she more stupid than her??
was she the lesser of two stupids?
my little mind boggles...
Ha ha. One of the dumbest things I have heard from a politician. Quite an achievement.
Hilarious! I'd heard that Minnesota had recently elected a comedian, but I thought that it was a guy?
Bachmann may be as stupid as a rock and as ignorant as dirt, but her confidence is sky high. A worse combination is difficult to imagine.
Why is it, when the right-wing Christo-fascists lecture us, they never get things right? One of the students in the recently ousted Sacramento student council complained about teachers who ask questions about the age of the earth on exams: “It depends on your religion,” said Choban, 25. “I would say 6,000 years based on my religion. The evolutionists would say 2 million years.”
The dummy gets it wrong either way, but I'm sure he'd like lectures from "Professor" Bachmann.
Usually, when I hear a person go off about how something is natural so it has to be harmless, that person is a less intelligent proponent of marijuana legalization.
Golly! What a neutron star of ignorance. She blathers on endlessly about the concentrations (which she got wrong) as if something so teeny, tiny couldn't do any harm.
Try ingesting a thimble of mercury, a vial of cyanide or a few molecules of VX. She would quickly find that the concentration of a substance absent a context means exactly nada, which is what her entire speechifying amounted to.
I am repeatedly amazed at the relentless gall of people like this woman, to just, get up and speak. Complete and utter bollocks. Quite, incredible.
I mean politicians generally are called on to bullshit a bit, it's included in the job description; But this?.
Wild.
The Democrat at the end made sense though.
It's not just her by a long shot. If you watch CSPAN long enough, you get to hear all kinds of stupid from your representatives and senators. It's really heartbreaking to see.
I should probably impose a "not allowed to watch CSPAN" rule on myself. It only hurts my brain and threatens the safety of my TV and monitor screens.
And the only entertaining programming is Prime Minister's Questions anyway.
My 8-yo son was stunned that she called CO2 harmless and suggested *exactly* the same demonstration involving a small room, a tank of CO2, and the rep from MN. He said, "After a minute or two, she'll get it."
But then he asked me a harder question, "How could she ever get elected?"
Good question, really.
This isn't even the weirdest thing she has said.
A few weeks ago she called for a revolution and the overthrow of the US government.
Not too sure why, but she also called Democratic politicians "anti-Americans", one of whom is Obama, now the president of the USA. Probably has something to do with the commies and socialists with D's after their titles.
This could be construed as sedition or treason but Michele B. has an out. She could simply plead insanity and no court would deny that.
The atmosphere is 3% CO2? Is she really that ignorant? It's more like 0.03%
Probably has trouble with that million/billion thing too.
Brian #17
Interestingly enough, a thimble-full of elemental mercury (quicksilver) isn't as dangerous as most people would believe. Mercury vapour, or compounds of mercury, are much more dangerous.
The ignorance, just awe inspiring. I can't get it out of my head.
What the phuque? That's like Adolf Hitler delivering a lecture on racial tolerance.
Teh stupid. It burnz.
Andy Seidl, I propose we put your eight year old son in congress instead of this woman. I think he'd do a lot better for our nation.
Seriously, if an eight year old can out-think you, you probably shouldn't have a job requiring thought at all, let alone holding one of the most powerful positions in government.
A concise summary here: Shorter Michele Bachman
She forgot to mention that carbon dioxide is an essential ingredient in our refreshing soft drinks and beer! Her constituents will be pissed if you try to take their beer away.
WTF...
Cue Walton to tell us that rising atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide are not due to human activity and are not dangerous. Worse than wars over migrations from dwindling coastline would be carbon taxes!
Considered as a sporting proposition, mocking Michele Bachman is just too easy, though it would obviously benefit the country if she lost her seat in Congress. What's more intriguing to me is figuring out how her mind works. She appears to be utterly sincere. Ignorance on this scale is something of an accomplishment.
I never thought I would hear anything that made "The internet is a series of tubes" seem like a model of erudition in comparison.
One big problem with scientists is that they have trouble getting a reasonable, easy to understand message out to where uneducated masses can get a grip on the basics.
This allows for the nonsense you see displayed here.
Lay folks don't persue knowledge- they are driven by other factors.
So they won't go to your science blogs and find out why they are wrong...
How the hell do people like this get to run our government?
Why don't people just laugh her off the stage. To give a speech with information that could easily have been corrected with a quick 10 second internet search.
It makes my brain hurt.
Being competent and having at least an open mind to possible dangers to humanity should be the minimal requirement for even running for office.
For everyone wondering how MB was elected: I was a resident of North Carolina most of the years that Jesse Helms was a senator, so I know this truth:
Some things cannot be explained.
Minnesotans, I feel your pain.
What is even more intriguing is who in the hell keeps electing her and why? She is what she is but the majority of the voters don't have a problem with it.
This is the Rep. for PZ Myer's district.
She is also affiliated somehow with the WELS, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutherans. It says on their website that the Pope is the antichrist, a bunch of anti-catholic bigots. I've always wondered what the RCC's in her district thought of that.
Just in case people couldn't watch to the end, here's Congressman Blumenauer's response to Bachmann, which is hilarious. I hope this guy or someone else does something like this every time she opens her crazy mouth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyMM3tdLyy8&feature=related
"but, but... Rep Bachmann, there are not 3% of CO2 in the air,
it is 0.04%"
Michelle Bachmann:"See! we need it even more!"
What a dingbat!
Republicans love her.
Supposedly, decades ago, she used to be a Democrat.
I blame prions.
Unlike BobH I watched the whole thing. Now I am wondering if I have masochistic tendencies. That was embarrassing; and I don't live in Minnesota.
I am about to finish reading The Age of American Unreason – that video could epitomize the book’s point of view.
point and laugh? Done.
What the hell? First she builds it up as a natural part of the Earth's cycles---a part without which life on Earth could not even exist, i.e. a truly vital part---and then she describes it as "negligible"?!
What an inconsistent retard.
Just as an aside, if an atmosphere has greater than 17% CO2, then people start dying. That's even if the rest of the atmosphere is pure O2. (OSHA article on CO2 health risks.)
RNC Ad Promo: Commercial 114.
Exterior: Capitol Building
Cue vaguely patriotic music . . .
(Narrator)
There's a new wind blowing. Yes my friends, a new wind, a stupid wind. A wind that's filling the sails of the Republican party like never before. And where does this wind come from?
Close up of Michelle Bachman lecturing congress
(Narrator)
Michelle Bachman. Stupid and proud of it. Boldly stupid. Daringly stupid.
Show Fancy Palin/Bachman '12 Logo (Nº7: Moose and Loon version)
Fade to black.
And I just read last night that Bachmann was quoted to the effect that DHS head Janet Napolitano was out of her mind. This lady is completely lacking in self awareness.
In my post #42 I forgot to mention that a 3% CO2 atmospheric concentration causes headaches, sweating, and dyspnea within an hour. The OSHA limit of exposure to 3% CO2 is 20 minutes. See reference given in #42.
She's a real peach.
Or maybe it's because scientists typically aren't invited to speak on the floor, since many scientists aren't members of the House?
Are you really trying to fault a group in a context where they don't get much of a voice?
No. Collin Peterson, a Democrat, is the rep for PZ Myers' district.
Prof. Henry Armitage...
Being from Minnesota myself and embarrassed beyond belief by this poor excuse for an elected official...I have to say that your humor is way more than we'll ever get from her. She is pathetic.
Thanks, I needed that chuckle.
Is she a member of the US Congress or the (Minnesotan) State House of Representatives?
PS: TisHimself: I doubt that 97% oxygen in our atmosphere is such a good idea.
@31: I wasn't aware that this women being an ignorant asshole was my fault. Thanks for letting me know!
I am 50 (well actually I am 53 years old)
The utility industry is sponsoring studies about the health effects of local increases in carbon dioxide concentrations because such increases may occur in the future around power plants and other facilities involved in CO2 sequestration. Of course there is no question of a general increase in CO2 levels to 3% of the atmosphere. There isn't enough coal or oil to burn; and, anyhow, we'd all be drowned and boiled long before the air reached 3%.
US
Asbestos is natural too. Maybe she should line her hat with it.
And in Palin's mind, taxpayers are wasting money for a few guys in lab coats to stand around watching fruit flies, and claim that it's science.
How about a basic test for politicians to pass, before holding office? Nothing too difficult... Grade 8 science for example... it should also be multiple choice with a box for "Goddidit" accompanying each question.
Palin/Bachman 2012!!!
I'm pretty sure that the wind coming out from her ears prevents her from being able to wear hats.
I did look at three of the websites on the first Google page (for Michele Bachman)but I wasnot quite sure (being a non-American; Dutch in fact). Maybe I simply wouldnot believe that such an ignorant woman could represent one of the major democratic countries in the world. I thought (and hoped) she was a regional representative.
Bozo/Sprinkles the Clown 2012!!!!
Pretty frightening huh?
We have other beauties too. Look up Inhofe, DeMint and Buttars (though he is in the Utah State senate, his idocy is big enough for the US senate).
CO2 is perhaps just 3% of our atmosphere, so if you take a pie chart of all earth's atmospehre, CO2 is just perhaps 3% of that chart.
Oh, now I understand it.
Peoples stupidity never surprises me....
What astonishes me about Bachmann is that she considers her ignorant mind farts on global warming to be as relevant as the published consensus of climate scientists. This woman is delusional, and the people who voted for her are too.
It's the same universal force that makes creationists think their ignorance = knowledge.
Dunning-Kruger effect
I must confess a bit of gratitude for her. Now, when PZ or one his state's residents tease me about Rick Perry, I can respond, "Michele Bachmann! Michele Bachmann! Michele Bachmann! Na na, na na, na, na."
;-)
The Arrogance of Ignorance
Especially, “Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments”
Heh, Rev. BigDumbChimp, I knew somebody was going to beat me to it.
Point and laugh?
We promise. Every chance we get.
agg it's one of my favorite explanations for these sorts of displays of arrogant dumbfuckery.
"I'M DUMB AS FUCK AND I'M PROUD OF IT!!!"
In the past week, I've heard or read variations on this theme from Congressmen Boehner (R-OH) and Barton (R-TX). I'm sure there have been others. They are looking for a form of the message that will resonate with their constituents, a talking point. Here is what I think that they are trying to accomplish.
They want CO2 characterized as a non-toxic, naturally-occurring gas. A seemingly benign even trivial point that most lawyer-congressmen would probably agree with. Its the next step that's the killer. Because CO2 is a non-toxic, naturally-occurring gas, the federal government (and by extension, the EPA) has no basis for regulating it.
I'm sure that if Beer's Law was mentioned they would tell us that German Beer Laws are not enforceable in the US.
Bachmann got elected. And Bush got elected -- twice. And more than 50 per cent of the American people do not believe in evolution. That is all one needs to know about the American people. A sad situation, indeed.
More MB TeeVee Fun House:
http://www.shortsshortsshorts.com/?p=2396
That's all huh?
I couldn't watch that, the stupidity was too much.
You are the meanest bunch of people on the face of the earth. Criticizing this sweet, lovely, obviously sincere woman. Ok, so she is a dickweed, who gives stupid a bad name. So what? She means well. And it is impossible, surely, that she would get re-elected. Right? Right?
All you need to know about Fox News is that she's a regular guest, and people like Hannity praise her on the air for the "fine, important brave work" she's doing, etc.
Here is Bachmann talking about overthrowing the US government with wingnut Hannity. FWIW, advocating the violent overthrow of the US government is a felony, treason and sedition. Of course, we do have a means of getting rid of unpopular governments. We vote them out of office every 4 years.
The problem isn't with Bachmann. Sure she is crazy, a nut. Who keeps reelecting her?
Michelle Bachmann:
At this point the American people - it's like Thomas Jefferson said, a revolution every now and then is a good thing. We are at the point, Sean, of revolution. And by that, what I mean, an orderly revolution -- where the people of this country wake up get up and make a decision that this is not going to happen on their watch. It won't be our children and grandchildren that are in debt.
Right now I'm a member of Congress. And I believe that my job here is to be a foreign correspondent, reporting from enemy lines. And people need to understand, this isn't a game. this isn't just a political talk show that's happening right now. This is our very freedom, and we have 230 years, a continuous link of freedom that every generation has ceded to the next generation. This may be the time when that link breaks. And I'm going to do everything I can, I know you are, to make sure that we keep that link secure.
(Also, what would an "unnatural" gas be, anyway?)
Freon and other DDTs?
Freons are typically low boiling liquids, and DDT is a solid.
Bachman "quoting" Jefferson? He just rolled over and crapped himself in his grave.
Thomas Jefferson
the reactionary right wing is anti-democratic. they do not want anyone else telling them what to do (it is OK of course for them to tell everyone else what to do). no regulation that might interfere with them making money any way they want. No one should be allowed to think, say or believe anything that disagrees with them.
those of like mind did not sign the Declaration of Independence nor the United States Constitution. Did not fight in the revolutionary war with the colonists. Did favor slavery did secede from the Union. Did support the invasion and annexation of the west and the destruction of the original inhabitants, Manifest Destiny.
They are still here and will probably always be some fraction of the population.
They will vote themselves a tyranny if given half a chance. They simply can not see further than their own minds can think no further than the immediate I want it now. Nothing is real that does not reinforce there own personal wants and desires and perceptions.
I do get tired of all their shit and wish it would stop, been waiting for years and years but it ain't stopped yet
CO2 is harmless?
There have been a lot of people killed by this "harmless" gas.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/volcanocity/about.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos
Shorter..
Too stooopid to know they are stupid.
Unfortunately this is fairly common for reps. I'm interning for this semester with the House Committee on Science and Technology, and last week we had a hearing on Monitoring, Measurement and Verification of Greenhouse Gas Emissions. We had two bursts of Republican insanity: Rep. Broun (R-GA) told the witnesses (who were from agencies such as NOAA, EPA, NIST and NASA) that they had all "drunk the kool-aid" with regard to human-caused climate change, that they had no scientific integrity and he had no respect for any of them. Later, as if that wasn't bad enough, Rep. Rohrabacher (R-CA), said that he believed that an "extraterrestrial intervention" had killed the dinosaurs. I have no idea if he meant aliens or something like a asteroid. The man's a loon; it wouldn't surprise me too much if he thinks ET came down and shot all the dinosaurs with laser guns.
Just in case you aren't yet bashing your head against your desk, this is the science committee. *sigh* That link goes to the hearing page on the committee website, you can watch the hearing if your computer likes RealVideo. (Mine doesn't.)
ah, those peeps in minniesoda, they sure can pick'em.
She may say things poorly, but check out these videos that illustrate some interesting facts you should all be aware of.
I do not believe in human-affected global warming by the production of CO2 leading to a greenhouse gas effect.
These clips are take from "The Great Global Warming Swindle", go watch the whole film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gszIdBjlIRY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSMi36vPXcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67qGfQK_gCo
PZ -
Thanks for the link (I really did not know that you read Mock, Paper, Scissors - I'm flattered.) -- Bachmann is a bottomless well of anti-knowledge. I try to check in on her once or twice a week. She never disappoints.
Regards,
Tengrain
You get a lifetime supply of Tin Foil if you purchase the DVD!
@87: your beliefs are irrelevant to reality.
This REALLY pisses me off.
The thread that really gets me is that she really seems to think that the basic points she's making are things that have been overlooked by the experts in the field.
It's like all of the banal arguments that creationists and physics crackpots love so well.
She's taking the basic knowledge distilled from the work of these experts, and then selectively parroting it back as though she's revealing something that those egghead scientists have failed to consider.
I imagine she's one of those people who eschew "book learnin'" in favor of "common sense" (which she, no doubt, imagines the eggheads to lack).
At least I can take "solace" in the fact that this kind of idiotic attitude isn't limited to my home state of Texas.
*cries*
Springbok, as a scientist, which will I believe, peer reviewed papers from scientists who must be honest in their professional work, or a movie by blatant liars and bullshitters who ignore those same scientific papers? No choice. Your uninformed unscientific opinion counts for squat here.
@Springbok: I'd suggest you read some of the many critiques of that "documentary" - you will quickly discover its five major misrepresentations and many other irresponsible distortions. The director styles himself as an anti-establishment bad boy - he really just needs to grow up and stop lying.
Stunning stupidity (MB has it).
While Michele Bachmann may embarrass us, she only represents one district. What the rest of our House delegation needs to do is to tell the media that when she is featured she should be introduced as "St. Cloud Congresswoman Michele Bachmanm." Those people would vote for a yellow dog if it said it was "pro-life."
From St Cloud, she not only got elected, she got re-elected. Now you know why Greyhound buses where invented in St Cloud, so working intellects could escape en-masse. It must have something to do with playing hockey year round without a helmet...been that way for years.
Holy crap - the atmosphere is 3% CO2? That'll render us all unconscious! That amount of CO2 would be fatal because it would bind preferentially to our hemoglobin; oxygen hasn't got a chance of competing against that much CO2.
Current figures for CO2 are something like 0.0384% and rising by 0.0004% per year (0.0008% per year if nature didn't soak up about half of what we humans put out). Compare that to 100 years ago when we only had about 0.03% or 200 years ago when it was only 0.028%.
H2S, SO2, and Radon are examples of other gases found in nature - perhaps this mad cow would like to be put in a small room filled with those gases?
There must be some contribution to society that Rep. Bachmann can make with the resources she has. Perhaps a charity jello-wrestling match with Gov. Palin?
How's your son, PZ? The one living in this lady's home district, St. Cloud?
Ms. Bachmann poster child for "If you think education is expensive, wait until you see the cost of stupidity?"
ugh. I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
Not 1 study? Woman never heard of Hypercapnia?
I recall a comedian on the radio saying, "Heroin is natural. Nicotine is natural. A gang of wolves is natural. 'Look out! It's a rogue grizzly!' 'Don't worry, he's organic.'
WATCHING. THAT. HURT. OOOUUUCH.
My angry unscientific guts tell me to believe that Michelle Bachmann has no more brain power than a single CO2 molecule has, but more HARMFUL she certainly is. Please find a way to remove that liar from any positions that allow her to spread such bottomless stupidity.
I am not positive, but I don't think CO2 binds preferentially to hemoglobin over O2 otherwise it seems it wouldn't work at all. I am positive that CO (monoxide) does bind preferentially to hemoglobin and that's what makes it so poisonous.
ricklend @ # 72: ... Bush got elected -- twice.
Bzzzt! Sorry, thanks for playing. Bush received stolen goods at least once, probably twice.
I'm a MN high schooler in the process of writing a letter to Bachman telling her the dangers of her pro-creationism ideas to our school system. I think I'll have to throw this in as well!
42, 45, 105 thanks for the info on CO2 - obviously putting someone in a small room with a big tank of nitrogen or helium would be fatal even though they are not bad gases.
71 - that may be the crux - CO2 would then not be regulated
xenon hexafluoride in a cool oven.
It's not only the temperature we need to worry about, it's ocean acidification too. Even the WSJ is covering it!
Springbok, what you believe is irrelevant, what I believe is irrelevant. What is relevant is what the evidence tells us.
What evidence does that propaganda movie have?
Although I liked how Rep Blumenauer accused Ms. Bachmann of making things up on the house floor, the sad thing is she didn't really just make her "facts" up ... she had notes .... so took time and considered the (mis)information she would present ... only to get it all wrong anyway, even down to the concentration of C02 in the atmosphere. It is far more pathetic that she researched the subject in her own haphazard way, made notes on her findings and then presented information that was so erroneous that it came off as just "made up on the spot".
How did this dimwit ever get elected?
Collin Lysford (#107), go for it. You'll may have no impact but she and her staff should get a verbal tomato every time she opens her mouth revealing her ignorance or bad judgement. And better it come from a fellow Minnesotan, especially a high school student.
I should introduce you to my dog.
yes that was a fart joke. So I'm childish. pfft
No, PZ, we're not cutting you Minnesotans any slack on this. We have John Cornyn, Rick Perry, Don McElroy, Tom DeLay, and a whole host of others (Bush is from Maine, and I'll never claim him). You're stuck with Bachman, Coleman, and who can forget Jesse? We all have our crosses to bear (so to speak), and you have to bear yours until you repent and elect someone else.
I don't think it is coincidence that roughly the same proportion of Americans reject evolution and anthropogenic climate change. These are the anti-science idiots who are rapidly turning our country into a third-world toilet, and possibly bringing an end to human civilization. So, do you think we can turn Bachman's surname into a synonym for something really obscene as Dan Savage did for Santorum?
The whole 3% vs 0.003% thing reminds me of that cellphone customer who called the cellphone company demanding to know why his bill was so expensive, and the Cell Company representative said that 0.01 of a cent was the same as 0.01 of a dollar (the difference between A penny and a Hundredth of a penny)
The argument went on for a long time, too. Yes, people are that stupid.
It's getting worse, too.
What the freep? Between Buchanan and Boehner on CO2, Shimkus on Noah's flood and Barton not having heard of plate tectonics (all in the space of about a month!), did the ENTIRE Republican party graduate from ICR's Master of Science program?
Well not really. It's that they all subscribe to the "I don't give a shit about facts, they interfere with my ideology" school of politics.
I'd be willing to make a deal with republicans. I know it's wrong but I'd be willing to offer that progressives 'give' her district a free ride for the next 2 elections if they would just put a gag in her mouth and not let her speak. It's just to damn embarrassing to live in MN and be associated with her!
It looked to me like two people who don't know what they are talking about ridiculing each other for being ignorant.
Unfortunately, that is what passes for political discourse these days. One thing that bugs me a little about this blog and a lot of the people who comment here is an unwillingness to concede that anyone who disagrees with y'all is not a complete idiot. Religious people and conservatives are not automatically stupid, many of them are quite reasonable and intelligent. Picking out the ones who really are stupid and pretending that that is your opposition is not a reasonable way to argue your point.
I am down here in Texas, where the evolution thing is a constant struggle. One of the most disheartening things is that the people who argue for teaching evolution in our schools actually know nothing more about it than the creationists. They are simply accepting it on faith, the same as the bible-wavers accept their creed on faith.
I second the nomination.
And I think you miss the point that most of the comments here are a direct reaction to things that people do and or say. Yes, I don't think all religious people are complete idiots. Most of my friends and family are religious. But that doesn't change the fact that I think that they are irrational and idiotic on some, or many of the things they say.
however, there are people who make statements like Bachman who cross the line from being just a compartmentalized idiocy to complete idiocy. Her actions, in public mind you, really hint at a complete lack of ability to reason beyond her razor thing ideology.
"...so necessary is it ... to the fowl that flies in the air ..."
Honestly, WTF is she even talking about. It's like she's reading from a previously-unknown chapter of the Book of Armaments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Hand_Grenade_of_Antioch#Usage_instruc…).
Why is she so stupid, and why are the people that elect her so stupid?
I hate appeal to nature.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnature.html
ATHEISM: Its all natural.
Actually the highest level of CO2 was found about 100 years ago. Levels have been dropping steadily since then.
While I certainly won't stand up for her, I challenge you to find any member of congress who hasn't been documented saying something that makes you wonder "How did this person get elected?" All elected persons have moments of idiocy (some more frequent then others).
lets put her in a room with her precious carbon dioxide.
'Look out! It's a rogue grizzly!' 'Don't worry, he's organic.'
Organic? Have you seen what those things eat?!
And one short comment: the first rule of toxicology is that the dose makes the poison. Nearly anything can become harmful or deadly in a large enough dose. Drink enough water at one time and it will throw your electrolytes out of balance. That can kill you.
Brian D #121
@127 is a lie.
This woman is an idiot.
Despite being inclined towards AGW scepticism myself, I've never heard a less convincing argument. What a fucking moron.
I'm no scientist myself, and I don't expect politicians to be completely au fait with climate science - but if someone is ignorant of the most basic high-school-level scientific concepts, s/he has no business delivering a speech about those same concepts. I don't presume that my opinion about climate science is worth anything in particular. Neither should Bachmann.
It is a harmless gas? Hmmm...even lab mice know better than that. If she says no studies have been done then I invite her to swing by my lab sometime when I'm sacrificing mice...just me, her, a bunch of mice and a big ol' tank of CO2.
I recommend that bachman become, not an obscene word, but one meaning "action predicated on the foolish belief that natural and harmless are synonymous".
Used in sentences:
There are bold mushroom hunters, and old mushroom hunters, but sooner or later, the bold ones do a bachman and never get to the old stage.
Foxglove tea? I'll bachman that.
In spite of previous liver disease, Marsha did a bachman with St. John's Wort.
That blue octopus is cute, but if you reach into the aquarium to grab it, you could bachman yourself.
Bit of a strech to call agreeing with the scientific consesnus faith. I suppose when you you get a diagnosis from your doctor you're taking that on "faith" too?
What about when you look at your science textbook and see that alveoli are the sites of gaseous exchange? Are you taking that on faith?
See, a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the botulism - that occurs naturally anyway - cannot be such a problem in a can of beans. In other words, a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of natural botulinum toxin cannot be such a problem in a can of beans.
It is common sense.
Taking it on faith... I do think so. I really do. Of course there is more than one meaning for the word faith.
How the hell did she get elected?
Reading all the comments like this makes me think folks here haven't been to St. Cloud or Stillwater.
Brian D @ 121 said: "One thing that bugs me a little about this blog and a lot of the people who comment here is an unwillingness to concede that anyone who disagrees with y'all is not a complete idiot."
Brian, on this subject (climate change), I've hunted high and low for arguments that could be distinguished from idiocy. I've come up with bupkis. 97% of climate researchers who are actively publishing on the subject buy into the consensus position on climate science. 90% of researchers in all fields publinshing on climate science buy into the consensus position. Not one honorific or professional organization of scientists or engineers that has taken a position on the topic rejects the consensus position.
Just as for evolution, I've been unable to find any intelligent arguments for rejecting the consensus position on climate change. That is not to say that all the people advancing these arguments are idiots. They include string theorists and other physicists who ought to know better. However, if you look at their arguments, it's clear they just haven't bothered to learn the science they are opposing.
Bachman is another matter. She's a bona fide idiot.
As an internist I never hesitate to educate patients to the relation of evolution to illness. I have had lots of success (without ever knowing the patient's stand on an evolution/creation belief system) in subjects such as low back pain, sickle cell vs. malaria, swallowing/speech problems, appendicitis among many others. Less success in antibiotic resistance, and almost none in the belief that natural remedies are more effective and less harmful than manufactured drugs issue. To say that a plant could evolve a toxin to prevent its being eaten probably flies in the face of the belief of all things placed on earth by God for man's specific benefit.
@127:
Citation please.
You are making a statement of position that goes against the accepted evidence, please provide a source so that we can assess it's validity. Or are you a trolling liar? I suspect this is the case.
You're stuck with Bachman, Coleman, and who can forget Jesse?
Admittedly, I was living in Boston for most of his tenure, but Jesse was on a completely different level than Bachman and Coleman. He really doesn't belong on a list with the two of them.
People here in Boston laughed at me for years about Ventura, but I'd always point out, "he might be a bit crazy, but he's not corrupt," which kind of surprised them. (Political corruption is simply taken for granted here in ways that it isn't in Minnesota.) He had been a mayor (true, small suburb) but wasn't the completely out-of-the-blue candidate people seem to think (and this was in a period in which the Independence Party was really at its height in MN). On policy he wasn't great, but I defy folks to tell me he was that much worse than Pawlenty. He was largely ineffective, but he was also stuck between party-politics and the House being majority-R and Senate being majority-DFL; he had no power base.
I was no fan, but he really doesn't belong on the list with Bachman and Coleman.
Please, please let the rapture come already and take her AWAY.
I just looked at the wikipedia article on Jesse Ventura and I was struck by this comment of his:
I can't argue with that in the least.
MAJeff@143
One thing that never gets mentioned-during Jesse Ventura's administration, contract talks with government worker unions were all settled without even the hint of a strike. He never forced people in another county than the one he lives in to pay for some rich asshole's playpen (note to non-Minnesotans: the Twins baseball team shoved their stadium financing down the throats of the people who live in Hennepin County exclusively, and Gov Pawlenty neither works nor lives here, so we got taxed by people who don't represent us, and who are virulently ANTI-tax-unless they can shove it on someone else).
Sorry about the rant.
This whole "natural is harmless" thing reminds me of the DHMO incident where Dihydrogen monoxide was the subject of attempted bans because it:
1. is an acid (hydroxyl acid) and is a major constituent of acid rain.
2. is fatal if inhaled.
3. may cause severe burns.
4. has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.
5. is extremely corrosive, even to strong metals and can destroy superhighways by a simple phase change.
In my former hometown of Louisville, the Executive Director of a park with a large fountain tried to dissuade people from getting in the fountain by posting signs saying "Danger! High concentrations of hydrogen!"
It just goes to prove that while ignorance is a natural state, stupidity takes real commitment. MB demonstrates that commitment on a regular asis.
I have to admit that Ventura wasn't in the same league as Bachmann et al when it comes to sheer malevolence, but he did prove that Minnesotans do have a sense of humor, no matter how they may seem. Jesse caused the world to laugh at the state, and that can't be all bad. But of couse, there is laughing, and then there is mocking...
I forgot to add that down here in Baja Oklahoma, we really need idiots up there, to take a little of the pressure off us, because we have so many. Thus, we have to include any humor material about foreign states that we can find.
Is Bachmann stupid enough to fall for banning DHMO? This is something that could be tested. Is there anyone in her district willing to try?
Tell Mrs Bachmann, that here in Finland, here on the otherside of globe, we are astonished about her lack of knowledge on basic chemistry. She should have better experts or she loses elections (and has already lost any veneration)..
Even one breath of 0.1% natural gas H2S cause immediate collapse with loss of breathing and kills most Bachmanns just in few minutes.(0.08% H2S is the lethal concentration for 50% of humans for 5 minutes exposure).
I've myself worked for chemical factory as an database expert.
Arsenic is a natural occuring substance in some desert springs. But Bachman's law seeems to say that arsenic is natural, ergo, it is harmless.
I would guess that she thinks CO2 is natural because it is heterogenous, and O2 is unnatural because it is homogenous.
There's dumb as a bag of hammers...
Then there's so dumb the bag of hammers finds any such comparison insulting...
And then there's Bachmann dumb.
The main "problem" with free speech is it allows even the dumbest people to think they're right about everything they think they're right about. Having an ill-informed opinion doesn't make you an expert - it just means certain brain cells happen to be functioning (albeit independently from the rest of the brain).
Bachmann and her ilk are "educated" idiots with a dangerous agenda that makes no sense in the real world, period. The utter lack of historical knowledge exhibited by this boatload of GOP all-stars over the past few years would be truly laughable if not for the rather shitty results we've seen.
Perhaps Bachmann's personal airspace is 3% carbon dioxide - this would explain the brain-dead thing she's been rockin' for years. Still... I wonder if she'd actually agree to being placed in that small room with a large CO2 container pumping away just to prove a point.
Hell, it's not as if it's a criminal act (or thought) to wish this on her (and anyone who believes that utter crap in her presentation). If it's indeed a harmless gas, she gets to walk away with a bigger grin than usual and more cred amongst her sheep. If it's not harmless, that "hot for Jesus" thing she has going will save her from any harm, right?
This makes me reconsider Minnesota for my graduate education...
When SHE speaks CO2 is an obnoxious gas.
It was once said that every time someone moved from Iowa to Minnesota, it raised the IQ of both states. I used to think that was a joke. Iowa, after all, still has Charles Grassley in the Senate.
@ #130
Not wrong. But that's probably a little too complex for her. Perhaps try:
"Here, water is essential to life on our planet." Then hold her head under water.
Let’s face facts: Bach saw what one wingnut in a skirt could do to the Repub white male whackjobs and their closeted bisexual wives, and is turning on the rhetoric for 2012… She views herself as the next Reagan savior on the rise…
I can’t wait for the Nailin’ Palin sequels: Poppin’ Bachman, Backdoor Bachman, Rugburn Bachman, Bangin’ Bachman and Bachman Does Bemidji.
Wow...I think I may have lost some IQ points simply by listening to her.
Is this the results of a frontal lobotomy?
I confess I am a member of Michelle Bachmann's District. Things to know about the District. It is probably the most conservative district in the country. It is a geographically large area north and west of Minneapolis/St.Paul that has historically been conservative republican. The district has been historically conceded and gerrimandered to include a largly republican base. She defeated Patty Whetterling (who's son Jacob was abducted) who is a long time advocate for exploited and missing children by a relatively small margin. Even in the predominantly conservative she won reelection over a poltical unknown Edwin Tinkleberg by 2%. In 2010 this is a key district to watch as Bachmann continues to amaze. Two thing may happen this district knows she is nuts but after all she is "our crazy aunt" and they don't want people telling them what to do, or they will destroy her. There is a move by local Republicans to beat her in a primary; but due to the conservative nature of the district that seems unlikely. Honeslty, there are more than a few democrats that see her as a recruiting poster for the local DFL