I guess Oral Roberts didn't meet his fundraising quota this year, because god has finally pink-slipped the old fraud.
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I heard he rejected Jesus on his deathbed.
Yes, Lady Truth managed to convince him of the truth of evolution at the last moment.
Praise Darwin!
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
FORTH!
God can be an asshole that way. Love the sinner, but hate the fact that they can't meet this year's goals.
(TypePad's working. How unusual.)
I would have thought he was dead already. If you had asked me, I would have guessed he died years ago.
What a shame he wasted his brief time being a nasty old bigot and lying people out of their money. He left the world worse off.
My dad's folks brought him to an Oral Roberts revival when he was a lad, so that Oral Roberts could cure my father's blind eye. He laid hands on my dad and prayed. The effect, according to my father? A headache for the rest of the day.
Oh my Dirty Hairy... the OM Heathers do not like that kind of stuff! Bad, bad, bad.
So, now that he's dead, and with the back economy and everything, do people get that $8 million back?
P.S. Thomas @2: You rawk! Expect that comment to go viral!
FITH SITH SVENTH...
Mystical syllables... almost like the opening of a Koranic verse
It doesn't do the atheist cause any good to rejoice in the death of others.
“In the midst of the turmoil, the fear, the anxiety that's in our nation and in our world, as I was walking and meditating, I heard the voice of God. I've heard that voice many times; it's familiar to me, and there's no way that I can fail to understand it's His voice because I'm familiar with it.”-- Oral Roberts.
Isn't that what they call schizophrenia?
Cue De mortuis nil nisi bonum tskers in 5... 4... 3...
Ron "bad taste" Sullivan
Oops. Too late already.
Steps should be taken to make sure he remains dead.
I remember the MST3K episode Space Children. The guy who played the Professor on Gilligan's Island played a drunken abusive step-father who get killed telepathically by the Space Blob half way through the movie. And as his body is being carried off by paramedics:
Mike Tom and Crow: Hooray!!
Crow: Wait are you sure he's dead?
Mike: Oh yeah.
Mike Tom and Crow: Hooray!!
I don't believe in an afterlife, but if there is one I hope he has to explain himself to all the people he's defrauded and justify what he did to all those who have suffered because of his actions.
Comment 11 beat out comment 13's prediction. Uncanny.
Fark has the best headline: Jesus prepares to receive Oral.
Over at The Atheist Experience we have a "caption/LOL this pic" tribute going on. Enjoy. (We're moderating comments due to continued Mabus incursions, so don't worry if yours doesn't show up right away.)
One less vaguely humanoid toad. Kennedy, Falwell, Roberts.
Ryan F
When Molly Ivins died, there was cheering
When Ted Kennedy died, there was cheering
When Dr.Tiller died, there was cheering
Were the causes of those who cheered damaged? No. So why should ours?
I was excited until it dawned on me that it wasn't Pat Robertson.
What's with the stupid first, etc posts - high school out early today?
Ryan:This fraud bilked millions out of people and it does not do the godbot cause any good mourning this huckster.
Ryan F,
I think you're confusing 'atheist' with 'humanist'.
Personally, I think it's a good thing that another American Pentecostal charismatic faith-healing money-bilking television evangelist is now historic.
PS He'll be in the 8th circle of Hell, if Dante had it right. ;)
"Atheist cause." Fuck off with that.
OR's built an empire on lies. He was a socially sanctioned con artist. That was his life. His death does nothing for anyone.
How is his brother, Anal?
You laugh now, but as we speak he is being reincarnated somewhere as Handjob Roberts.
Into the future we can expect:
Mutual Masturbation Roberts
Dry Humping Roberts
Autofellatio Roberts
Fisting Roberts
Anal Roberts
Shocker Roberts
Skull Fucking Roberts
... and a host of others which probably aren't appropriate to mention in mixed company.
/sigh
Idiots.
I wonder if his son spent all the funeral money already?
As good as an excuse to pull out an old track by an act that borrowed from Oral Roberts, MC 900 Foot Jesus.
I'm Going Straight To Heaven
@Ryan F...
Seriously? There is not a single individual obnoxious and evil enough for you? No one?
..... And then the thought hit me>.....
WHY DIDN'T HE HEAL HIMSELF???????
- or - does that "laying on hands" crap not really work?
I laughed at the pink slip joke, and I'm only slightly ashamed of myself. Oral Roberts was an evil, evil man.
You people don't have to mourn his death, I just don't think it reflects very well on you people as human beings to rejoice in it. And pointing out that religious people rejoiced in the deaths of other people doesn't prove anything, except that you're not as different from them as you think you are.
I can only feel pity. He spent a good part of his life indulging in delusions and tricking countless others into believing him. What a waste of life.
A whole life spent
preaching the word of God
and yet he went
Like an eaten kod
Please, everyone! Show the proper respect for the death of this lying, bigoted crook.
Are we allowed to speak ill of the dead?
Vader enjoyed a good laugh when Obi Wan bit the evaporation farm, too. And look what happened to him*.
*Actually, he was turned away from the dark side to live on in infinity as a hologram hovering near Luke Skywalker.
Concern troll is concerned.
It's the religionists who say they are different from US, not the other way around, poser.
The religious affiliations of US prison inmates somewhat put the lie to their arguments, although they always answer that with the No True Scotsman fallacy (as if they think they're fooling anyone).
Ryan, I just don't see why I should feign remorse and sadness over a bad man's death. If using ridicule to remind people what a fraud Roberts was in life is what you want to call "rejoicing," okay, whatever.
To quote the Hitch speaking of a similar event, "If they'd given him an enema he could be buried in a matchbox."
Comedy. Gold. Larry Jewell wins teh intertubes.
Ryan F.
I don't rejoice in the death of others. However, keep in mind we are criticising what his life has stood for. He spent his life lying to others that they can escape death through his brand of faith and conned many.
It's unfortunate that he passed away, especially since he passed away thinking that the evil he's done is good.
i wanted to go to his university once.
He spent his life lying and bilking credulous people (i.e. deluded Christians who believed his drivel) out of their life savings. Why should I be sad that a person like that is no longer around to ruin people's lives?
Trust me, I'd be reacting exactly the same way if a godsless scam-artist was dead. His nonsensical religion was just the table he set his three-card-monte business on.
Somnolent Aphid, fortunately, it seems you got over that.
#18:
Heaven? No way, Oral's going down.
I don't think it reflects well on you as a human being to worry about a political cause over the death of a man who promoted suffering and hate. Try being a little less self-absorbed.
While I'm not glad the man died, I sure am glad that he's no longer alive.
I spoke ill of him when he was alive. I don't see why I should suddenly stop now.
Ryan F - Think of all the uncounted people who suffered and even probably died because of this phony's "healing." It is them I mourn, and their memory I would insult by not expressing at least satisfaction at the passing of their exploiter.
Janine asked:
How about if it's the honest truth, as it would be if we pointed out that Oral Roberts was a wretched dishonest scumbag who profited by Lying for Jebus and fleecing people who needed the money far more than he did?
"It doesn't do the atheist cause any good to rejoice in the death of others"
It won't do the atheist cause any good when I have a glass of scotch tonight, but I'm still going to enjoy it.
Hitchens on Jerry Falwell: "Kick the shit out of him and you could bury him in a matchbox."
Can't wait to hear what he says about Oral.
Well, GHP, he did die like all the rest of us but I mean, so what? You don't suffer when you're dead. What I resent is that he induced so, so many to suffer so he could live a life of luxury.
No justice in this world ... so long as people give conmen like him a pass.
Ryan F. #33:
Oh, we're different, alright, or at least I am.
I, for one, don't think he's in either heaven or hell, or purgatory for that matter. I don't think he can feel anything now or sense any ill will coming from commenters on this blog -- because, well you know, he doesn't have a soul, spirit or ghost. I'm not going to mock him in front of his family. I'm not planning on shouting it from the rooftops, and I doubt any atheist will be commenting about it publicly. Then again, I'm not buying him a fucking beer, either.
Please try to keep a sense of proportion. This is just a blog post with some comments.
Yahoo! Oral! Roberts! Dead!
(coudn't resist)
Ryan F.,
Your concern is noted. Now please do fuck off. We're celebrating here.
I'm glad some of you can give legitimate responses. And it's sad that one of you actually called me a troll simply because I have a different opinion. I don't think his life is my ideal of a life well-spent either, but it's just kind of pathetic that the day his death is announced, the majority of people here whip out their best one-liner about crooks, christianists, and alike. I actually don't doubt that he believed a lot of what he said. He probably believed in miracles and probably believed a lot of other things we here find ridiculous, but because he made money off of it, that doesn't necessarily make him a crook. A lot of people believe in miracles, that the Bible is the inerrant word of god, and all that other nonsense, and many of them are willing to pay money for things that we find laughable. Then again how many atheists walk around in T-shirts they bought from Richard Dawkins, or own any merchandise from an atheist organization? He made money for what he believed in, we make money for what we believe in. I doubt anyone here has concrete evidence of bad intentions on his part, so you're all just speculating his motives.
@46
I was going to point out that these mean the same thing, but then I finally ... slow on the uptake ... yeah ...
(Otoh, heaven and hell are imaginary, whereas bj's are real. So there's that.)
Ryan F, here is the difference. People wearing the products sold by Dawkins are not expecting a miracle from up high or think that they are currying favor with a big sky daddy. Use a better analogy.
I will not attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it.
That's my point. At the end he's just like the rest of us. But his theology insists that he will be granted eternal life for believing and we suffer death. In the end he dies anyway. What I'm saying is that I won't be parading now that he's dead but rather I’m saying that HE'S EVIL and that I will criticize him all I want.
He believed in the miracle of feeding marks a load of horseshit and getting cold, hard cash in return.
When I first heard the news that Oral Roberts had died, I put my hands together and said, "why?! Why God?! Why couldn't you take Pat Robertson with him!?" Figuratively, of course.
"The God Deception" should be his life story. I pity believers, but I really loath the con men who lie to them.
Couldn't it have been Joe Lieberman instead?
This the Pharyngula residence? Yeah, got your furniture delivery here. The "Margaret Dumont" extra-large fainting couch? Hope you don't want this upstairs, it weighs a ton.
http://www.sclrcf.rg/shwthrd.php?t=4398
y rlly nd t pt sm cmmnt mdrtn n yr blsphmy…
...
Now, Ben, if there were a God, He wouldn't waste his time with an irrelevant old fart African war profiteer like Robertson.
My sources say Joel O'Steen's at the top of the ol' smite list.
Ryan F., I think you're missing the historical context behind PZ's post. In January 1987, during a fundraising drive, a tearful Roberts announced to a television audience that unless he raised $8 million by that March, God would "call him home.
That provides the context to PZ's joke about the pink slip, and also provides evidence of what a sleazeball Roberts was.
It's a sad commentary on civilized society that a scam artist like will die and get showered with post-mortem praises.
He's a crook and a charlatan. Just because he believes in magic doesn't change that. He conned desparate people into believing that he could perform feats of healing through the guise of conjuring. He prayed for them while preying on them.
Religious morality? No thanks.
Uh oh, I think the registration will be turned on shortly...
Oh great. The insane one is here.
http://www.cnsprcycf.nt/frm/ndx.php?/tpc/25104-thst-pclyps/
y rlly nd t pt sm cmmnt mdrtn n yr blsphmy…
njy shttng ll vr yr gly fc, pz....
Let the family infighting for the spoils of his evangelical financial empire begin!
Popcorn anyone?
Ryan F......
What do you mean, YOU PEOPLE??
http://nrsnblfth.cm/frm/tpc/thsm-s-dd-4
jst smll lst f ths ths hs bn snt t....
th ntr nvrsty f mrrs, btw...
"Auto Fellatio Roberts"
Wouldn't that be "Otto Oral Roberts"?
I still want my FINISHED.
#70
Fixed.
Let the public drunken gay orgies in Tulsa commence!!
http://www.fftpcz.cm/55413-thsm-dd.html
y rlly nd t pt sm cmmnt mdrtn n yr blsphmy…
njy shttng ll vr yr gly fc, pz....
Ryan, I don't think it's particularly his death that has people expressing their disgust for Oral Roberts. It's just that he's in the news; and as it's likely to be the last significant time that happens, it's a good chance to mention what a fraudulent egomaniac he has been. And celebrate that he has finally perforce stopped being such a blight on society.
How adverse does someone's life have to be before we can look with approval on their death? I'm trying to avoiding Godwinning here....
Will their be livestock?
Oh? Oh oh oh? Wait for it...
.
..
...
LOL
http://ngfrm.prvd.r/shwthrd.php?p=3006367
y rlly nd t pt sm cmmnt mdrtn n yr blsphmy…
njy shttng ll vr yr gly fc, pz....
This is the moment to ask: Where does the name Oral come from? Was it made up by parents who just wanted two syllables that fit in the English sound system and didn't know the word exists already? Or what?
ROTFLMAO!
There is such a thing as ethics of belief.
It is, for example, evil to be willfully ignorant and act as if one were not ignorant at all.
It is furthermore grossly irresponsible – and thus evil – not to seek help when apparently suffering from paranoid schizophrenia.
=================
Comments 48, 49, 52, and 55 bear repeating.
comments 71 and 72... Wow... registration needs to be turned on and I'm insane because I have a different opinion. Very pathetic little self-congratulating, incestuous clique you have going here.
Will their be livestock?
Depends. How soon can Mabus get to Oklahoma?
Oral Roberts called home by Jesus.
Jesus to find that someone found his cell phone and has been making prank calls on it.
Oral Roberts to find that Jesus has changed his number to an unlisted number, moved, and left no forwarding address.
http://www.nfdlgy.cm/ftpcp-15952.html
y rlly nd t pt sm cmmnt mdrtn n yr blsphmy…
njy shttng ll vr yr gly fc, pz...
Gee Jeff, I dunno. . .he likes it . . . brown. How about a goat instead?
EXPERIMENT TIME:
If 'help ma boab' does not send PZ anymore emails, we know his identity!
The local newscasters here in Detroit went on and on about how much he will be missed and how wonderful he was. Yep, that is how they think swindlers and fear-mungers should be remembered. These same newscasters though that think the H1N1 flu shots are dangerous especially after the recall today.
Oh yeah, call me sophomoric, but I thought "FIST!" was quite amusing (deliberately or not), in the context of an a-hole called Oral...
@Ryan:
The registration and insanity was not directed at you, it was directed at Markuze. Drop the persecution complex.
#87:
Right, it's all about you, isn't it? Like the bunny said, try being less self-absorbed.
http://www.nfcts.rg/fctsfrm/vwtpc.php?p=25550&sd=7cbf6100633b7f405888d7…
y rlly nd t pt sm cmmnt mdrtn n yr blsphmy…
njy shttng ll vr yr gly fc, pz...
Ryan F, they were not talking about you. There is a certain insane man who like to drop death threats leaving his droppings. Nerd and Chimpy are hardly threatened by the likes of you. Get over yourself.
Um, those comments were in reference to the moron known as David Mabus aka. Markuze aka pzisdead aka mr. Irrelevant.
Not to you.
Google say's he'll be there in just over a day. But Google can't anticipate border patrol! :)
Ryan - you have missed the point, dude. Roberts made his money by bilking people who in most cases probably didn't have that much to begin with. One of the lowest things anyone can do is to take advantage of someone else in dire straits (not the band, mind you). HWF could he not know he was selling snake oil? Any record of research on his "cures"? As someone pointed out earlier, he was a socially accepted con artist and I gotta be glad there is one less fraud out there.
And yes, the fighting over alllll that loot will soon begin.
Have a day.
Ryan F, nothing to do with you, (you are just an annoying concern troll), but rather the sick and truly insane presence of "he who shall not be named".
Will tonight be the night, Chimpie? Will you finally your FINISHED?
Back to the days of Granville Oral Roberts,
Back to the ways of Granville Oral Roberts,
Back in the days of poo.
--
When an evil person dies, the world is a slightly better place, just as when a good person dies, the world is slightly diminished.
Markuze is back? Damn Canadians! He was suppose to be in tiny patted up room by now!
http://www.rlgnfrms.rg/thrd-1786-pst-15502.html#pd15502
hh pz...gt yr FNSHD yt...
I doubt it. He's been haunting (and by haunting I mean drooling all over it like a halfwit, no offense to halfwits of course) my email and my blog for months on and off and still no FINISHED.
Uh, Ryan F.
I don't think the comment about switching on registration was about you.
I think it referred to the one with a fecal obsession about P.Z.
Actually, it does. By our standards he was lying to people by pretending to believe in something he could verify as false by applying critical thinking and intellectual honesty but did not, and chose to make millions of dollars out of a lie.
By the standards of what appears to be Christianity he was a crook as well, because Jesus' own words seemed to imply he was against the hoarding of vast amounts of wealth for personal use.
So yeah, he was a crook. A lying, cheating, scumbag crook.
My only feelings would be for any family who loved him and who will miss having him in their lives; I won't pretend that there weren't people who meet that description, since these kind of people are rarely all bad.
While he does not deserve our respect they do deserve our sympathy. But that isn't the same as pretending he wasn't a lying scumbag.
He was suppose to be in tiny patted up room by now!
Why would they take him to a confessional?
Couldn't we at least have a comment system that automatically detects and silently rejects duplicate (or near-duplicate) comments?
This is ridiculous. A team of monkeys could code a better comment system.
bgbdmbchmp...w'r ctlly gng t spr y...
N FNSHD FR Y...
t s PZ wh s gng t d fr yr sns...
http://www.stnspc.cm/frm/ndx.php?tpc=19337.0
*backhands Ryan F.
You're not the only one we're talking to you know.
I guess Gawd had had enough of Oral. He just tapped him on the head and sent him home. Oral is great and all but sometimes just gets old and boring. I hope he says hi to Colonel Angus when he gets to Heaven[tm].
#110, hahahahaha
Markuze,
Let me warn you, according to most US States, all registered sexual offenders must state they are sexual offenders before going public.
Awwwwwwwwwwww!! Even with Squidmas coming up and everything?
/sulk
I thought about going that route. I guess that's likely, given that Oral was already a name in the family.
This prophecy stuff is HARD. I will concede that the future may give us slight variations from what I have written, so you'll need "other ways of knowing" to determine the "spirit" of the message.
You could say that makes me like Nostradamus, which I guess means I have demolished "the insane one".
(rewritten because for some reason my first two attempts got flagged for moderation...)
What a tease. There, there, Chimp. You can have half my FINISHED. I can't eat it all. It has bacon.
http://frms.thstrngr.cm/shwthrd.php?p=163797
y rlly nd t pt sm cmmnt mdrtn n yr blsphmy…
njy shttng ll vr yr gly fc, pz...
Markuze,
You wait till PZ gets tenure. Then he can personally go and kick your ass, no risk.
I'll pour that bottle of 100 year old Scotch over OR's grave like I promised. After filtering it through my kidneys first.
http://frm.bmswrld.cm/shwthrd.php?s=81dc493d546615fc17cffb3df9&t=310262
y rlly nd t pt sm cmmnt mdrtn n yr blsphmy…
njy shttng ll vr yr gly fc, pz...
It's just a shame there's no hell for him to go to...
Ya'll might hate me for this, but I don't get it.
Yes, it's true: there is a filter for blocking the N. person's name, which I did in #117.
THE MORE YOU KNOW...
It's probably escaped Ryan's attention that he's not the insane one for whom registration needs to be turned on.
Ryan: You weren't just called a troll...you were called a concern troll. Because you were opposing people airing their opinions about Oral Roberts under the guise (sincere or not) of being concerned about how this would make the "atheist movement" look. A rhetorical tactic that is so common, it has a specific name. People were calling out that tactic.
Oral Roberts is a con man and snake oil salesman by any minimally rigourous standard. He's made claims about faith healing and raising the dead. He more or less emotionally blackmailed his followers by telling them that if he didn't raise enough funds, God would call them home. He lived a lavish lifestyle funded by religious privilege. It's not damaging the atheist movement at all to point out that this guy is a sleaze bucket or to be glad he's no longer damaging other people. It's a point in our favour.
http://www.dlygrl.cm/blgs/drmbs7/2009/12/Athst-Apclyps
sm f ths ppl r nt t hppy tht hv t ngg n sch tctcs t dl wth y scmbgs
y rlly nd t pt sm cmmnt mdrtn n yr blsphmy…
I just clicked on one of Markuze's links. Should I clear my cookies before the feds show up??
You were called a concern troll. That's someone who says shit like:
We should rejoice that an evil man who stole from the poor and lied to the ignorant is dead. We're not talking about Uncle Aloysius who picks his nose in public. Oral Roberts was a lying, sanctimonious, homophobic thief. The world is a better place now that he's dead.
The people who mourn Roberts' death wish hate us already. The people who don't care won't care what a bunch of people obviously opposed to Roberts are saying. The people who are glad he's dead will exult with us. So your concern about "the atheist cause" being harmed is misplaced.
BTW, did you notice I didn't call you a troll nor did I invite you to fuck off? That's because I'm trying to do good for the atheist cause.
Ryan F,
Oral Roberts actively made life worse for a lot of queers like me. I don't care if he was a sincere bigot or not, what maters is he was a hateful bigot like so many of his kind. My reaction is the same as when Falwell poped it, good riddance to bad trash. I don't miss him and won't mourn him.
@Glenn #64 - I think we share the same sentiment. Pity the credulous, loathe the manipulative.
vn n shrmr's st...
http://www.skptcfrm.cm/vwtpc.php?f=16&t=12298
c'mn shrmr, dbnk tht, y fc*r....
My grandfather was a baptist preacher. I was sitting with him when Roberts was begging for money in '87 or gawd would call him home. My grandfather started laughing and said: "If god told me that, I'd say I'm ready to go now, lord, cause I know you don't need the money."
Smart man, my grandfather. He's the one who got me to think critically about the bible and all the bullshit televangelists were spouting. He never knew I'm Atheist now because of that.
Yes, count me among those celebrating the death of a lying, bigoted, asshole. Got my dancing shoes on.
http://www.ytb.cm/wtch?v=ssFIhJkLsk&ftr=plyr_mbddd
hr s th GTS N FR vd tht y r t mch f cwrd t wtch...
y gt sm RL NMS, pz...
@Gyeong
I so totally hate you and stuff. MAJeff was making a joke about an error the original commenter made. The OC said someone should be in a "patted up" room. He should have said "padded room." One gets "patted up" in a confessional.
Go to your room without supper.
DC Council voted 11-2 for same sex marriage today. Coincidence?
via Wonkette
http://ltsrllfrms.cm/thst-pclyps-t19814.html
nw th 911 trth frms...
thy r gng t smk y thsts t yr hss...
This is the first time I've encountered pzisdead, is there a point to his rants or is he as useless as he seems?
Yeah my stupid typos.
Mabus/Markuze/pzisdead,
Now look what you turned our teddy bear PZ into!!
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs39/f/2008/339/e/0/YGO_TAS__Evil_teddy_bear…
http://www.fcbk.cm/tpc.php?d=73673967160&tpc=11151
lk vn sht ll vr yr fcbk...
y gt sm SPRNTRL NMS...
Um, I think I got it. *dumb look on face
pffft. That's no punishment. I have a bag of chips in my room.
#135
Religionists--;
Teh gays++;
He is mentally ill. And useless.
Huh, I never got "patted up" in a confessional. Maybe I went in the wrong door.
http://hntdtvrn.prbrds.cm/ndx.cg?brd=sprtlty&ctn=dsply&thrd=3654&pg=1
nd nw ll th prnrml nd cnsprcy frms...
@Natasha
See David Mabus. Something's up with him lately, I've seen his droppings on several other atheist blogs lately. He has a real unhealthy fixation with PZ. Worse than Kwok's, which was surprising to me.
He'll be missed... but not by me.
Even Christianity isn't entirely devoid of worthwhile notions (peace and brotherhood, for example)... but Roberts somehow managed to skip over every one of them in favor a twisted new approach that rejected all measure of social consciousness in favor of selfish greed, and STILL managed to call it "holy."
That takes some serious gall--and an utter lack of principle. What a loathsome creature.
Not severe enough for you? How about I withhold your spanking then, Mr. Man?
*summoning Smoggy*
Oh great prophet, may your wisdom guide us through this troubling time. We beseech you for words of comfort and grace to help console our bereaved hearts.
Is this Markuze's facebook?
http://www.facebook.com/people/Dennis-Markuze/723761255
Eh, good riddance to bad rubbish. But the world is not any better without him. Unfortunately, his legacy will probably live a long time. Have his survivors started asking for donations yet?
http://2012frm.cm/frm/vwtpc.php?f=22&t=15460&strt=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=
nd sm frms r trrfd, s thy shld b...
Natasha Yar-Routh:
I have yet to notice it defecate out anything that could be considered coherent by any stretch of the imagination.
Ah, Oral Roberts... Good riddance.
Oral Roberts, perhaps not unsurprisingly, was the centerpiece of the first moral dilemma I ever faced.
My elderly grandmother relied on her grandkids for assistance in many of the necessities of life. We would stack her firewood, run errands and, (here we come to the crux) fetch her mail from the post office. I had often heard my father bemoaning my grandmother's habit had of sending sums of money to the Oral Roberts ministry, despite her very limited fixed income. He would chide her gently about sending money that she could ill-afford to part with, to an obvious huckster, muttering that he'd love to chuck those "begging letters" into the garbage at the post office and be done with it.
As a boy of around 10, I had no real thoughts about the existence of gods, but my dad was just about as close as I could imagine, so I figured he was probably right. So one fateful day while I was returning to my grandma's with her mail, I noticed one of the "begging letters" from Oral Roberts.
I was torn. I knew that throwing away mail was wrong, but so was ripping off old ladies!
Eventually (maybe regrettably) I brought all the mail to her, including the crap from the ministry. Of course, she immediately tore open the "begging letter" and showed me, with great pride, how Oral Roberts himself had signed it. It was so obviously a rubber stamp that, even at that age, I wondered how someone could be so easily duped.
I still don't know if I did the right thing. I do know that my grandma was beaming with joy, and I felt like I was lying by not pointing out to her that this letter was as about as special and personalized as pizza coupon.
She continued to donate, and I continued to bring my grandma her mail.
So... Oral Roberts, huh?
Fuck you, Oral Roberts.
Those aren't Christian notions. Those are part of the popular culture that Christianity absorbs from.
I'm tired of seeing statements like that. The Prince of Peace himself said "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword". Peace is not a Christian notion. And the only brotherhood you find would rightly be condemned as overly patriotic and xenophobic by anybody not projecting their own values onto the text.
Some excellent comments.
Rev. BDC @48 and Brian @49 sum up my feelings perfectly.
I get the impression that most people let their own emotions about death inform their response to someone’s passing. As if death somehow changes the playing field and people should show some deference or moderate their position in response to someone reaching the end of their life. It’s a bit like the way people have been mindlessly granting respect to religion for thousands of years. "The dead are beyond criticism."
Well fuck that. We’re born, we live then we die. Important principles are at stake and I’m not going to take the day off out of insincere respect for people I despise. My condolences go out to the guy’s immediate family but that’s it. Otherwise, the world contains one less wanker and the rest of us continue on.
I'll behave now.
A rumor that Typepad is working?
BS
Ever had a little turd that kept on floating up no matter how many times you flused?
That's Mabus.
On the bright side for all involved, he gets to celebrate baby jebus' birthday in person in just 10 days!
Maybe they called him up early to help with decorations.
What happened to all of Markuze's comments? They all look edited. Has PZ arrived?
ctlly I m prfctly sn... m nggd n mssn f cnvrtng mlln thsts nt NSTRDMNS!
s sy...
http://www.nfdlgy.cm/mdls.php?nm=Frms&fl=vwtpc&p=15949
ftr y brk dwn thr dfnss thy dn't vn bn y nymr...
Rev BDC, have you got your FINISHED yet?
Woo-hoo! I haven't seen a good disemvowelling for ages.
pzisdead,
Why do you hate PZ?
What on Earth is that? Kakapo style?.
On a second thought... maybe I'd prefer to remain ignorant.
Wha's the difference between a religion and a railgun?
Nothing that a disemvowelling wouldn't sort out.
You got better. I hope.
By the way, it's "university", with quotes.
Dammit, let's get this right, people.
BBlogger,
Nah. When PZ does arrive, they'll vanish into the bitbucket. If and when PZ does edit, he only disemvowels, typically with a warning.
Actually, I've been wondering about that too.
Billygutter01, that is a very sad story. Thanks for sharing it. However, Ryan F. would have us believe that Roberts might have sincerely believed his ministry needed your grandmother's money, so we shouldn't rejoice in his death.
Sadly no. However, I did just pick up a six pack of Bells Cherry Stout. And damn it is tasty despite what most of the reviews I've been reading say. Nice and tart with a rich stout base.
Cool, even the addresses are getting disemvoweled, so we can't even see the insanity first-hand.
It's times like this when I wish Hell was real!
Paul: Oh, I'm not claiming that Christianity came up with any of the good ideas associated with it--just that they caved into the obvious on a few points and wound up with a few (very few) decent messages in among the crap.
Those were the messages that they shared with/stole from almost every culture's philosophies about morality and ethics. And those were the exact areas that Roberts marked off with a DO NOT ENTER sign in favor of pushing greed and hatred.
Ding, Dong,
The Witch is Dead!
The Wicked Witch is Dead!
@Ryan
Of course there isn't much difference between us and the religious--we're all human beings. The main difference is that we choose to use our brains and they prefer to blindly follow their dogma of choice. As far as being joyous that OR has died, well, the man was a slime-weasel. He made his living on the credulous; amassing his fortune one small Social Security check at a time, all signed over to him by people who could ill-afford it. The man was a massive pile of horse-shit and his best saving grace is that he may now serve as fertilizer and food for bacteria.
While I would prefer to hear that Pat Robertson had shuffled off his mortal coil or that the Troll Who Shall Not Be Named had walked in front of a bus, I'll just be happy that one less shit-bag is robbing the poor and/or elderly.
"...pink-slipped the old fraud."
My sentiments exactly. When will we be rid of these bloodsuckers who don't even want to pay taxes on their ill-gotten gains?
Better late than never I guess.
billygutter01,
That's a very sad story. Roberts doesn't deserve anything other than scorn and loathing. Those who prey on the trusting are a special kind of evil.
Good riddance to Oral Roberts. I'm happy that he can no longer do evil unto others.
I can't believe that the great man of God, Oral Roberts, has been taken from us. I must pray about it.
SMOGGY BATZRUBBLE: Dear Jesus?
JESUS CHRIST: Yes, Servant Smoggy?
SB: Jesus, why did you call that great man of God, Oral Roberts, home? Why, Jesus?
JC: Oral who? Oral Rubber? The biggest cock-swallowing man-whore in all of San Francisco? He's not dead yet.
SB: Not Oral Rubber, Jesus. Oral Rubber is Floyd Rubber's twin brother, we know he's not dead yet. I'm talking about Oral Roberts, the evangelist. You've called him home.
JC: No I haven't. He was called home back in March 1987 after he made that rash claim that if he didn't get 8 mill in three months, God would punch his ticket.
SB: I thought he raised over 9 million dollars Jesus?
JC: Ha! Try nine hundred dollars Smoggy. Fundies may be thick as shit, but even they could see right through old Oral Herpes scabby attempts at extortion.
SB: So, if the real Oral Roberts has been in Heaven since 1987...
JC: Hang on, Smog. I didn't say he was in Heaven. I just said God called him home. Hell's the natural habitat of an extortionist that nefarious. Satan's demons have been banging his flabby, lying ass for over three decades now. Down in the Inferno he's known as Anal Roberts.
SB: So if Anal...I mean...Oral Roberts has been in Hell since 1987, who's the guy that just died?
JC: No one just died Smoggy, that was Oral's zombie, his animated cadaver. God left it there for a bit of fun, and to stop his family continuing on the family tradition of ripping off the faithful. With Oral Zombie lurching around, the young Orals haven't been able to damage much more than the old fraud's university.
SB: So isn't anyone mourning old Oral, Jesus?
JC: There is one person, a mistress he used to have who loved his lyin' old ass, for all its faults.
SB: And what's her name, Jesus?
JC: To be honest Smoggy I can't remember. I Always think of her by the nickname she got from God.
SB: And what's that, Jesus?
JC: ORAL'S EX! hehehehehehehe.....
...
...
...
SB: I don't get it...
I do not understand how anyone can defend Oral Roberts. If theft is wrong - and as a matter of basic keep-the-society-running-smoothly-no-god-needed practical ethics - then he was a particularly nasty person.
He stole from the poor, and the ignorant. In some cases, they were poor and ignorant b/c they hadn't been exposed to Englightenment ideas; in other cases, he stole from stupid people. Now, I know that PT Barnum said that a sucker is born every minute, but that still doesn't make it right to use their credulity to steal from them.
He was a bad, bad human. Since there's no Ultimate JudgementTM, the only thing we can do is vilify his actions and use them to illustrate the definition of "unethical" and "fraudster."
And his suffering is over...he's not around to suffer, which is a pity. He should have been held accountable for the pains he caused every credulous fool who donated money to his cause.
(Yes, I'm biased; I grew up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran church, and left at 15 b/c of the utter b/s, fraud, backbiting, lying, hatred, and general venality there. I find the company of nonbelievers more congenial, as nonbelievers tend to engage in less magical thinking and projection head-games than believers).
Wait, wait, wait...
What's all this about Oral Robots?
RyanF, your concern is noted.
I can only echo what Brian said in (what is, at the moment) #48:
You don't automatically become a worthwhile and good human being simply for having died.
That's what they all say. Your paranoid schizophrenia is plain for everyone to see. Get help already.
Breaking news from all the afterlives... we have been offered $8m to take oral roberts back, the offer was declined.
I heard the news in the car and said, "Good F@(KING Riddance"
The DJ's on the radio went on a 10 minute tirade on how fond they were or Oral, how they think about Oral all the time, and how that can't imagine life without Oral.
NPR newscasters interviewed Pat Robertson for this evening's program. Robertson said that he believed that Oral Roberts could heal people with his hands, and that he had personally seen not just hundreds, but thousands of people healed by Roberts. He went on to say that about seven million people in the United States alone would testify to being healed by prayer and by faith. Enough good things were said about Oral Roberts and his "calling" that you would think he really had done something more than take the money of gullible people and establish a University with a goal of replacing useful knowledge with negative knowledge.
This is is precisely why we talk about what the man did while he was alive now that he is dead. Somebody has to call Pat Robertson on this bullshit about thousands of people being healed.
Oral Roberts' family can mourn whatever good characteristics the man embodied, and they can ignore his lack of ethics. That's their privilege and I wouldn't interfere with that.
Threatening one's followers with "God will call me home right now if you don't send me money immediately" is amusing on one level. It's a Monty Python sketch come to life. Consider the irony of the fact that it worked! Oral certainly made a name for himself with that bit of theater. He had balls to even try that. I still won't cut the guy any slack just because he made me laugh. He was wrong, and he damaged the lives of others.
I'm glad some of you can give legitimate responses.
Oh, I'm so glad you're here to judge whether or not our responses are "legitimate." Whatever we are, you most certainly are no different than religious people.
Our celebrating pales in comparison to what will come down from the "godly" ID crowd when scientists who spent their lives improving the lives of others finally die. And while we're on the subject, the religious over at Uncommon Descent have just asserted that they are different because they don't have to give empirical reasons for why atheists are horrible. (Link is to AtBC, not UD.) "Empiricism is not empirical" they now squeak. (This thread really must be read to be believed.)
Therefore, the righteous at UD don't feel that they even have to point at any atheist's behavior to "prove" that atheists are terrible people. So, hell, our behavior doesn't influence them in the slightest!
Vowel cleanup on Aisle 162 please.
JOE:
Gee, Sy
This is a real groovy apartment
You've got here
SY BORG:
All government sponsored recreational services are clean and efficient
JOE:
This is exciting
I never plooked
A tiny chrome-plated machine
That looks like a magical pig
With marital aids stuck all over it
Such as yourself before
SY BORG:
You'll love it!
Its a way of life.
JOE:
Does that mean maybe later
You'll plook me....
SY BORG:
If you wish, we may have a groovy orgy
JOE:
Just me and yon?
SY BORG:
I share this apartment
With a modified
Gay Bob doll
He goes all the way...
Ever try oral sex with a miniature rubberized homo-replica?
JOE:
No, ah, not yet,
Ah, is this him?
CENTRAL SCRUTINIZED
This is him.
Your wish is his command
He likes you
He wants to kiss you always
Just tell him what you want
JOE:
Really?
Hi, little guy
Think I might get a tiny, but exciting
Blow.. .job...
Gimme dat, gimme dat
Blow job...
Gimme dat, give me de chromium cob.
SY BORG:
Bend over.
JOE:
Gay Bob
Blow job
Gimme dat, gimme dat
Blow job
Gimme dat, give me de chromium cob
SY BORG:
You'll love it!
It looks just like a TeleFunken U-47.
JOE:
Little leather cap and trousers
They look so gay..
Warren just bought some
Warren just bought some
Warren just bought some
Hey...
SY BORG:
Bob is tired.
Plook me now,
You savage rascal
Ehhh!
That tickles.
You are a fun person
I like you.
I want to kiss you always.
JOE:
Gee, this is great
Hows about some bondage and humiliation
SY BORG:
Anything you say, master.
JOE:
Oh no, I don't believe it
You're way more fun than Mary...
SY BORG:
You're plooking too hard...
JOE:
And cleaner than Lucille...
SY BORG:
Plooking on me...
JOE:
What have I been missing
All these years?
SY BORG:
Too hard
JOE:
Sy...
SY BORG:
Too hard
JOE:
Sy...
SY BORG:
Plooking too hard on me-e-e-e-e...
JOE:
Speak to me
Oh no...
The golden shower must have shorted out
His master circuit
He's, he's, oh my God
I must have plooked him...
Hey
To death...
Hey
Joffan,
Thanks. I have alerted the clean up crew (emailed PZ)
RBDC,
That's plookin' hilarious!
And only today, CERN spooled up the LHC again.
Every time CERN collides protons, a televangelist dies. It's an expensive method, but, hey.
Anyone notice the irony in "He said that it was then that he heard God tell him he should build a university based on the Lord's authority — a promise fulfilled in 1963, with the founding of Oral Roberts University in Tulsa?"
If you're going build a university based on god's authority, shouldn't you, I don't know, name it after god and not yourself?
I see I'm not the only one whose head filled with Zappa lyrics at the news...
"Pat Robertson says that he's the one, oh he shore is if armageddon is your idea of family fun, and he's got a plan for you (arf, arf) now tell us that ain't true (let's dance)."
Now I'm holding a vigil.
For Pat and Jimbo (Swaggart).
@Wobbagger
flused?
I really hope you mean flushed and not flossed.
Oral Roberts was evil but he was Mother Theresa* compared with his son Robert. Even after the scandal at ORU (who the fuck names a school after himself?) he and his wife are still on TV begging for money.
I would love to see a documentary that just shows televangelists' bathrooms and then showed their contributors' bathrooms. Just that contrast should be enough to open the eyes of some** of their sheep.
#15: OMFG!!!! I saw Space Children when it came out in 1958 and I've spent the past 51 years just trying to remember the name of the movie. Does anyone know if the MST3K version is available on DVD?
*Not the real Mommy T, but the image created by her fans.
**Most of the sheep are too far gone to accept reality.
Now, as much as I too have that dark side that loves laughing at the misfortunes of others, I'm not a big fan of doing that to the recently deceased. I'm going to call "too soon" on this one.
As much as preachers throughout history have condemned people to burn in hellfire etc etc, and how much free speech allows us to speak ill of the dead, I figure it's in bad taste. I'd ask that when we do obituary pieces about people we don't like, we do so honestly but without the metaphors and similes that despite their hilarity, are viewed as unsensitive.
Oral Roberts was an evangelist who died at age 91. His ministry told people who could not afford to give that what they gave, God would return to them with great interest. This doesn't make sense, and is why I think that he is not someone to be admired.
I hope the other things in his life prove to create better legacies, and that the bad things he did fade away into history. I may be misanthropic from time to time, but overall I'm always rooting for the H. sapiens team. Except maybe when I'm rooting for the Geospiza team.
I keep seeing "Oral Roberts stole from poor people", but actually, he convinced poor people to give him their money.
That's actually worse.
I mean, if he stole their Social Security checks, there'd be a bunch of old ladies in Tulsa filing police reports: "Caucasian male, older, ridiculous hair". But instead, he built a rapacious empire on the fixed incomes of people who somehow thought that he was going to put their money to better use than anyone else.
"Oral Roberts was evil but he was Mother Theresa* compared with his son Robert."
You mean his son was named...Robert Roberts? Who ARE these people?!
Dear Finch,
I wonder what quality of coffins the poor people that helped fund old Oral's millions were buried in?
Your friend
Smoggy
You have a point there, but remember, God spoke to Oral in a "familiar voice", namely Oral's own voice. I think they were one and the same.
I wonder how many people suffered or died prematurely as a result of believing in his "faith healing".
He wasn't just some preacher, or just some really famous preacher, or even just some really awful preacher that said ridiculous things and conned people out of money.
This guy deserves no respect for what he did, whether he's living or dead.
And "too soon"? In a month it would be no different, and in a year people will consider it old news.
I have a stake. I figure you just can't be too sure in these cases...
With most humble apologies to A.F. Housman
Lowliest of thieves the Roberts so,
Gone from among us miss him, no.
His corpse, in coffin, is there on show,
All dressed up, no place to go.
Of his years, four score and eleven,
For 80 plus, he shilled for heaven.
And from 91, take his half a score,
Leaves 81, he robbed the poor.
A criminal has met his doom.
There really is not any room,
to mourn a man so filled with hates.
But pity for his victims' fates.
There are people engaging in quarrels
Who may show they are lacking in morals
Who is bad? Who is worse?
You will learn in this verse
That the basest position is Oral's
Erm... "was", not "is", thankfully.
And thanks, mothra, for showing me up! ;-P
There is a blue moon this month too!
To those who offer their sympathy to the relatives of the evil bastard, I will save mine for those relatives who have accepted reason and abandoned the superstitious beliefs that OR based his "kingdom" on.
Grab Our Dollars.
Grope Our Daughters/sons.
May Oral's inheritors start up a carpentry university, i.e. "Screw U".
Oral Roberts dead? They can't bury him deep enough.
Those who practice the Oral position
Are all making a conscious decision
That success tastes the best
When you bugger the rest
And defraud them with Christian precision.
Oral's son is Richard, not Robert. Sorry.
My grandmother used to watch him and tithed funds she did not have. She dropped him a HUGE sum of money when my dad was ill so he could be 'cured' of his heart trouble. Four months later, he died. She couldn't believe this happened, but still watched him faithfully.
I hope they find (where ever they are) and call him out for what he was...a charlatan.
Your spirit don't leave knowing
Your face or your name
And the wind through your bones
Is all that remains
And we're all gonna be
We're all gonna be
Just dirt in the ground
It's a wonderful thing that the old order are dieing off, finally. I feel this way about the old political order as well. It's unfortunate that they have so many followers.
OTOH non-believers are growing in number. Hopefully this will happen faster and faster.
I don't think that I'll see the watershed moment in my lifetime, but my son might. And his future children certainly.
There is hope.
And if I didn't make it clear, good fucking riddance.
Another victim of a religion built around torture and execution: a child who drew a picture of the crucifixion was sent home from school and forced to undergo psychological evaluation.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121489768&ft=1&f=1…
It's really not fair to imagine that this kid is the one with the problem when he is probably inundated with these types of images, especially around the holidays.
I, for one, am particularly fond of the British tradition of speaking truth about the freshly dead. The (it seems to me) American tradition of tiptoeing around in hushed faux-reverent tones seems to me to be incredibly tasteless.
wrpd4 @ 198
MST3K's "Space Children" is on YouTube in segments. Not on hulu.com yet, though, but keep checking. (I don't buy DVDs anymore.)
@ sasqwatch
I don't know how fresh he was, but at least he's dead. Unfortunately his delusions live on.
Could that AP obituary be any more unbalanced? They would have called for Oral's beatification if he wasn't a Pentecostal.
Oral named his son Dick?
JJ, one has to wonder how many thousands of people gave money to that ass, money that could have been used to treat or at least comfort the afflicted. It was harmful fifty years ago, it was harmful twenty years ago, it was harmful last week and it will still be harmful next year.
There is no celebrating that this fraud is dead. Just relief. And the sad realization that there are other asses to step in and mislead more of the gullible and desperate. And it is disrespectful to those harmed to keep quiet about it simply because a fraud is dead.
Kristine: Thank you. You have made my day, nay, my life. Will you marry me?
So, my given name is Richard. And I looked up the etymology of the name. Dick used to be short for Dominick.
My girlfriend asked: So how do you get Dick from Richard?
I said: You might buy me dinner, some wine...
We both cracked up.
Just saying. ;-)
Obligatory reference (dedicated to Ryan F):
The Eulogy Song.
"It's the religionists who say they are different from US, not the other way around, poser."
This is a good point. I had conversation along the same lines as this with someone recently. I asked, If 'Accepting Jesus as your personal savior' (a concept not taught in the bible) makes you a better person that me, especially when some Christians behave far worse than me, an agnostic? His response? "The Christian life is a journey and Jesus changes us as we yield our lives to him." My response: "Then how do you explain the behavior of those who have had this 'wonderful' life changing relationship for decades, that even I consider immoral!?" He fell strangely silent.
Now, I don't rejoice in the death of anyone. In some ways, a part of me pities this man, who, I feel wasted his life for nothing. Another part of me wants to piss on his grave because of the evil actions he did. He bilked tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars out of devoted followers. Roberts was a liar, a thief and devoted his life to getting filthy rich from the bank accounts of desperate, often older pensioners, living on a fixed income. There should be no celebration of this evil mans life!
This comes to mind.
There's a lot of Aussie references, but you'll get the drift.
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&oi=video_result&ct=res&cd=…
I'm going to recommend at the crossroads, with a stake through his heart.
He was a bloodsucker in life, let's make sure he's not one in death, too.
'Eulogy', by Tool , is the song that comes to mind:
_______________________________
He had a lot to say.
He had a lot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.
I'll miss him.
He had a lot to say.
He had a lot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.
I'll miss him.
We're gonna miss him
So long.
We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.
Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.
______________________________
Dam!!!
Beaten to the punch at #226
91? Why the fuck do these assholes always get so old? I knew a lot of good, honest folks I would have loved if they'd lived that long.
Oh well, at least he finally kicked the bucket, so good riddance old POS </Walter Huston dance>
What do you call two gay guys named Bob?
"Oral Roberts"
Hey Myers, why don't you try to be less of a prick? Stay hardcore on what matters, but join civilisation with the little things? I wish you'd try it out.
I would disagree.
Christopher Hitchens definitely says that he believes atheists are more moral than the religious. And I know other people have said similar things, as well.
Personally, I'm not sure if we're better behaved or not. However, when we do act badly, we have to take the blame for whatever ills we unleash on the world, but in exchange, we can take credit for any good we do, as well (except when theists cruelly deny us this by claiming that their god was working through us). I don't know if this makes us better or not, but it does help avoid the situation this man used to prey on people. A malevolent person who says he's doing good (and no one dares question) in order to commit his crimes against those who really are good people. No sacred cows means that any motive can be questioned if necessary.
Oral "Mouthy" Roberts was a Scum Bag. Back in the early 1950s, when a relative of mine lay dying in the hospital in Tulsa, Oklahoma, one of my family members called Oral Roberts to come and pray for him.
Oral Roberts showed up at the hospital and wanted $250 to pray for my dying relative. My relatives did not have any money...and Oral Roberts REFUSED TO PRAY FOR A DYING PERSON!...
When I heard this story, it was just one of many stories that caused me to realize there is no god, because if there was one, this imaginary god would have struck Oral Roberts DEAD.
I am so glad this filthy, mind-stealing, scum bag pig is dead, along with a bunch of religious snake-oil salesman. Billy Graham and Pat Robertson and a slew of these con artists have far too long. Now how did they live so long? It was not because of god, it was because they have so much money from scamming so many stupid people, that they can afford the very best medical care by Atheist doctors possible.
Good Riddance!
Russ124bc, sorry mate! Luck of the draw.
'Twas inevitable, anyway — and it's nice to see you too were reminded of it. :)
PS linking: <a href="URL">text caption</a>
where URL is the link, and the text caption is what is seen. With YouTube, just edit out the crud in the URL.
--
Jeff @234, your concern is noted and duly dismissed.
Hey jeff, why don't you try to be less of a brain dead asshole? Stay ignorant on why most of us are not saddened, but join civilization by not committing fraud upon it. I wish you'd try it out.
Al least fucking read what was said before you spread your spittle, nitwit.
Dear brother Jeff,
Well said! You may be a man with less of a prick, but at least you aren't ashamed to join civilization with your little thing. I might try that out myself. Less is more, so they say.
Nasty PZ, daring to criticize a dead man! Now that Oral Bob has shuffled off his mortal coil, we should all decently forget that he milked money from the poor and gullible.
SB
So another fraud has died. Good riddance...
Hey Jeff,
Concern noted.
Now go away.
#237
Thanks John,
I'll remember that for future reference.
Cheers
Russ
@Jeff:
Awwwwww. . . is diddums sore? That makes me a Sad Panda. Have some soothing ointment, sugar dumplin'.
wrpd4 @ 224
*Makes a notch on her finger cymbal* You should join us at AtBC, read the "pleasurian" debacle at UD, then become another of my "pleasurian husbands." You'll have no competition, since I have no idea where the other two are! :D (Fatherhood makes bloggers so unfaithful!)
P.S. Have people heard the smarmy interview with Pat Robertson on NPR regarding Oral Roberts? Geez, nary a word said about all the disappointed folks hobbling home after being "healed." Robertson said, "Well, we all go too far" regaring the $8 million! Wow, people - we all have faults, we're human, wank, wank! But some of us enjoy our faults in the despicable lap of luxury beyond most of our dreams! I'll be writing both NPR and MPR and giving them yet another reason why I won't be sending in my contribution to Corporate Public Radio.
(MPR's take on the McDonald's latte: "It's not good or bad, just different." Crap, they've so totally sold out.)
The news is reporting that he died of "complications of pneumonia".
Isn't that how AIDS patients deaths used to be reported?
Rather fitting I imagine.
Rev. BigDumbChimp:
MARY: With leather?
If there were any justice in the universe, Roberts would have snuffed it years ago, and Zappa would still be with us.
Jeff wrote:
Hey Jeff, why don't you try to be less of clueless dipshit? Post on sites where inane drivel is tolerated, but get a fucking clue on how things work here at Pharyngula. I wish you'd try it out.
Pissant.
Hey, Jeff, here's a little Oral to masturbate yourself to sleep with. Enjoy your concept of "civilized"!
A lot of Tool and A Perfect Circle songs come to mind... Disdain for hypocrisy and self-righteousness is pretty common in James Maynard Keenan's lyrics. I can't say that I blame him.
"Ticks and Leeches" seems to describe this guy's life pretty good.
Well...not sure what to say. I will not stop reading Pharyngula, as it's one of my top 2 or 3 blogs. I will continue to refrain from commenting, as I have been, mostly, for 3 years, during which time I have been informed and rewarded by both Myers and the commenters' insights.
Comity and civility are virtues, and respecting them would neither harm nor dilute any message.
Stay strident! But speak and act as gentlemen and gentlewomen; otherwise, you're needlessly insulting passers-by and polluting the general environment-- if not alienating people who are ripe for enlightenment. (People react negatively to abuse.)
@najashiki
.
"Tool" does come to mind.
But speak and act as gentlemen and gentlewomen
Oh, really? Like "Hey Myers, why don't you try to be less of a prick?" Real gentlemanly, you hypocrite.
So, out of curiosity, I looked up the etymology of the name:
Huh.
I think that might explain a few things.
It makes perfect sense that (Golden) Oral should have served Mammon...
(Cue stream of jokes involving "showers" in 3... 2... 1...)
Jeff, if this man had murdered his wife and children would you still be calling for civility? What if he slaughtered twenty children? Blew up a building full of people? Why is it that these offences would warrant not treating him with civility, while the offences we know this man did commit demands that we treat him with deference?
Please enlighten us. Where is the line? This man ruined lives while convincing people they were doing good. Why is that not good enough?
#251
#250
Excuse me, but you have a mote in your eye.
Damn, damn, damn. Should have read #234 instead of #251. Now I have chocolate pudding all over my clever.
Yep, Oral Roberts spent his life bilking people of their money and spreading bigotry and hate, but we're the ones "polluting the general environment" by pointing it out.
Hmm.
Standard concern troll hypocrisy. Yawn.
jeff,
Nay, you're welcome to comment! Seriously.
Just remember, you get to express your opinions, and others get to express their opinions.
You just don't get a free pass to comment on others (e.g. PZ) without others commenting on your comment.
So, what's yourpersonal opinion on the late Oral? ;)
[speaks into intercom] Fainting couch! Can I get a fainting couch to post #250 please? He sounds very concerned.
People keep insisting that this is true; where's the evidence that this applies to fence-sitting religious reading atheist blogs?
Honestly, I've never encountered anyone who's been seriously doubting the existence of a god - for the right reasons: the lack of evidence, the overwhelming contradictions of the belief system or the poor arguments presented by apologists -decide that, after they've read a rude blog post written by an atheist, all of those reasons for not believing in god are suddenly invalid and they'd rather be in church with the polite but delusional intellectually dishonest believers.
Short version: take your concern and cram it. With walnuts.
I was going to call jeff on his rank hypocrisy but Kristine beat me. Instead, I will ask this, jeff, where on this thread has PZ or any other commentator was wrong about Oral Roberts. He was despicable in life and his death does not negate that.
Listen, it is not like any of us will be picketing his funeral. But a sleazebag is dead. That would be significant if there were not so many others to take his place. Please, teach us where we are wrong. If you can.
And don't be a prick about it!
RE: ckitching
The man was a despicable lying blowhard who participated in increasing misery in the world; he was a fraud, and a destructive one at that.
Fuck him.
I really don't think WE need to be such asswipes, too. I'm apparently in the minority here, so I'll go fuck off now, too, and me and Oral Robert's corpse can share stories of how shittily we were treated at Pharyngula.
I hope you'll learn to laugh, and also learn to be polite. For the present, I think I've composed a thoroughly vile email, to fit your tastes.
Let's put our heads down
And shed a tear for
Those poor
Worms
That have to eat
This vile flesh.
The late Oral? Better late than never.
Yep, that hopefully drives the idjits away. We get too many poor quality trolls.
I hope you'll learn to laugh, and also learn to be polite.
No, you fucker, you do not get to play that move. Not after your opening gambit. Fine, you know that Oral was a vile fuck. What is wrong about being honest about it. His fucking death does not change who he was.
See, that's the spirit, Jeff. I think you're starting to get it. Fuck him (but not literally of course, because, well, he's dead and that's just sick).
Uh....
FACEPALM
@Nerd of Redhead, OM: Indeed, Jeff seems to be under the impression that we don't want people to react negatively to abuse. The whole point of abusing someone is to get a negative reaction, and it's quite rare around here for someone to receive abuse without earning it.
Jeff is also forgetting how many of our trolls plainly love being abused.
I was raised Catholic but my parents had this strange attraction to evangelical ministers like Roberts. Unfortunately, as we got ready for Sunday mass they would play the Oral Roberts TV show. [I got some relief when they bought a small TV in their bedroom where I would escape to watch "Davey and Goliath"] They bought his bs hook, line and sinker! Even giving money to his organization.
Now you'd think that as a young lad I would have suffered enough indignation having to be forced to listen to Roberts dribble for several years! But no, it gets worse!
Some how, during my Junior year in high school, my dad thought it'd be a great idea to send me to ORU to check out the school. I did not want to do this, but my dad paid my way and so I could only think of one reason to go: older college girls!;)
Anyway, I got shipped off to ORU during Thanksgiving, so that made things worse. I got the grand tour of the school, along with sight seeing of college women. The whole irony of me being there was the fact that this was the same year that I had questioned my Catholic faith and a belief in god. So I had to endure and pretend to be one of the good Christian puritans. They really lost me when they told me about the strict code separating the guys from the women. They were really structured in their scheduling and I soon lost interest, especially when I was told that you had mandatory chapel service 4 times a week--two on a Sunday! I was fortunate enough find an escape at the lounge where I found video games [I dramatically improved my Galaga skills on that trip] and regular rock and roll music.
To say the least I was never going to attend that college! I was in fact told I would have to reexamine my relationship with Jesus--whatever! I was an agnostic, horny teen within one of the most ubber evangelical universities in the nation who's only goal was to check out the women on campus. Sad my dad wasted his money!
NBWAW, if only Patricia was in a position to reopen her whipping couch.
There's no shame in seeking treatment.
And you can cram politeness in with the walnuts. <300 voice>THIS IS PHARYNGULA!</300 voice>
--LionDancer@#261--
*applause*
Jeff,
Please stay. Feel free to state your opinions of anything said here. And we will, as well.
There will be cussing, bacon, lesbians masturbating with bibles.
Trials, tribulations, tribbles and rivals.
Cuttlefish rhyming.
Jesus folk with bad timing.
Folklore for cures and plastic fish lures.
All are welcome to our show.
And you don't need any money, any dough.
Alliteration, adulation, apocrypha and more.
Just don't let the comments get your ass sore.
Welcome to our little blogish place.
And don't be a concern troll,
Just in case.
Biology Blogger #91,
LOL! I will give HMB this, however: Oral was far beneath what little dignity HMB had.
To Ryan F. and jeff, when the person with the Big Fucking Gun pointed at your head or the head of your friend dies, I say celebrate! Karma and fate are fairytales; don't let such superstitious nonsense or the stare of bigots be a weight on your conscience.
There's no shame in seeking treatment.
To whom is this directed and what are you suggesting? You do realize that earlier this day, a seriously insane person left more of his death threats here?
Please provide context.
Anal Roberts is worm food? I guess I'll have to believe in Santa Claus then. Naah, I'm too lazy to believe in fairy tales. Besides, Santa hasn't delivered Dick Cheney, Pat Robertson, Pope Ratzinger, and any other number of lowlife so I'll have to ascribe this event to chance - and the fact that Anal Roberts was pretty damned old.
RichVR
That's such a brilliant commendation of this site! Thanks. Like many of you, I presume, I work a lot, poke around Science and Nature, and care about what happens in this world; that's how I found Myers' site. The ridiculous vehemence I lamented does not affect me, and I'm done with that tactic. Let the dead bury their own, as me an' Jesus say.
Help Ma Boab did send me more email the other day. He says he was just joking when he begged to be let back on the site.
Seriously, does Help Ma Boab have a care taker?
Your hypocrisy and utter lack of introspection is appalling. But hey, don't let honesty, logic, and self-awareness get in the way of your little smugfest.
Re: PZ and Janine,
I had no knowledge of anything like that happening.
Some people react negatively to the truth but find it less challenging to criticise their opponent's tone.
Has anyone presented to Ryan F The Chaser's Eulogy Song yet?
...but all that was forgotten
once he took his final breath...
Yes, even christian asshole swindlers
turn into top blokes after death!
Like Oral Roberts, Captain Obvious conned me good... I don't know what the 'OM' after certain posters' names means. :( Damn you, Captain Obvious!
If only there really could be a "heaven" that was exactly as OR advertised, and he was eternally stuck inside it - and conscious of the fact.
He'd be praying for Hell in half the time Cordy, in "Angel", began regretting her ascension.
Well, he's dead. No better or worse, much, than any other dead person. Or animal. Or plant matter.
And Ray Comfort was just joking about bananas being the atheist's worst nightmare. It gets so tediously redundant to always have to point out the lies of Liars for Jebus™.
HAha, I swear I searched for "eulogy song" in the thread, I see now it's been linked at least twice already.
@RichVR #273
...and in March we're all going to Australia!
Remember to get your permission slip signed.
Jeff, it starts here and he kept at it for a while. PZ disemvoweled the statements. He basicly calls for the death of all atheists, especially PZ.
Um. I hope that my carnival barker thing wasn't taken the wrong way. I used to do that in Coney Island, Brooklyn.
It was meant to be a positive thing about Pharyngula.
Not negative.
Is it bad that the stream of disemvoweled comments here made me giggle?
As to the main topic... I can't celebrate a man's death, but I can celebrate the absence of this man's influence on things like public policy.
It is a shame that the latter comes at the cost of the former. I think we'd have all been happier if he'd lived and reformed as opposed to this.
Mr T...Weren't you one of the people that criticized me for my overtly sexual and offending language the other day?
"What I am saying is that there is a difference between accidentally offending people, offending people for a good or bad reason, and doing it just for the sake of offending."
Here you are today::
"You laugh now, but as we speak he is being reincarnated somewhere as Handjob Roberts.
Into the future we can expect:
Mutual Masturbation Roberts
Dry Humping Roberts
Autofellatio Roberts
Fisting Roberts
Anal Roberts
Shocker Roberts
Skull Fucking Roberts
... and a host of others which probably aren't appropriate to mention in mixed company."
I guess there is a point to this? Not just offending for the sake of offending, I hope.
Mr T,
It seems you are describing your sexual fantasies or your homo-phobia. Please explain which is it.
thanks
tt, did the point of the entire thread fly over your head?
Yep, tt. That sure was me. Let's take another look at one of your comments in that thread, shall we?
I do have a fucking sense of humor. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think wanting to see two people getting gang banged is quite the same as me riffing on some dude's name.
Also, you should consider having a logician take a look at that tu quoque stuff for you.
Mr T has not struck me as being homophobic, tt. He was having fun with Oral's given name. And I got a case of the giggles over Skull Fucker Roberts but that is because that kakapo video is one of the funniest things I have ever seen.
Flap! Flap! Flap! Flap! Flap! Flap! Flap! Flap!
I will never speak ill of oral, only poorly performed oral.
Oh and by the way, I am glad Roberts is dead. Though they probably didn't deserve it in the same way Roberts did, I am also glad, Michael Landon, Patrick Swayze, and Michael Jackson are dead too.
You've got to include this in a post. No one has ever summed up this scam artist and all televangelists better than this great comedian:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8ea0067ad2/dylan-rhymer-oral-roberts-a…
Mt T,
I wasn't really thinking of gang-banging as a violent act. I was thinking of it as more of a multiple partner encounter as described in wiki-pedias main definition.
tt wrote:
He's funny. You aren't. Do you need me to draw you a diagram?
Perhaps you should invest in some binoculars - since the point of this post (and the responses to it) are so far over your head as to be undetectable by the naked eye.
Oh, and Michael Landon? Where did that come from? He's been dead for years. Are you sure you aren't thinking of someone else?
Fuck Oral Roberts, and fuck the pearl-clutchers. I had no respect for the man in life, why the bloody hell am I expected to come up with some now? I hope he didn't suffer and that his family finds solace, but that's it. The man lived to 91, most of it in luxury bilked from thousands of desperate and gullible people that had far greater need of the dough that they sent him. Bernie Madoff with a cross. Fuck that noise. Fair warning, I'm not going to have any respect for Kevin Trudeau or Pat Robertson either, when they croak. Have your vapours ready.
Hmmm... that says a lot right there, doesn't it? FFS, what does it take to get someone committed in Canada? You're the ones with the halfway decent health care, remember?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqiOpePmnl0
Patrick Swayze?!? Well then, fuck you, tt. You become more boring with every inane post and there doesn't seem to be a lick of sense in you.
Janine:
Believe it or not, he apparently chose to go by Oral, because his given name was Granville Oral Roberts.
In regards to this thread, for me, Roger Waters said it in Amused to Death:
What God Wants Part 2 -
[TV Evangelist:]"Do you believe in a better day?
Do you have faith in a golden way?
If you do, then we must come together this day
Come together as one, united television audience
Brought together by the sound of my voice
United, united financially, united socially,
United spiritually, and all possible ways
Through the power of money
And the power of prayers...."
What God wants God gets God help us all
What God wants God gets
God wants dollars
God wants cents
God wants pounds, shillings, and pence
God wants guilders
God wants Kroner
God wants Swiss francs
And God wants French francs
(Oui il veut des francs francais)
God wants escudos
God wants pesetas
Don't send lira
God don't want small potatoes
God wants small towns
God wants pain
God wants clean up rock campaigns
God wants windows
God wants solutions
God wants TV
God wants contributions
What God wants God gets God help us all
What God wants God gets
What God wants God gets God help us all
What God wants God gets
God wants silver
God wants gold
God wants his secret never to be told
God wants gigolos
God wants giraffes
God wants politics
God wants a good laugh
What God wants God gets God help us all
What God wants God gets
God wants friendship
God wants fame
God wants credit
God wants blame
God wants poverty
God wants wealth
God wants insurance
God wants to cover himself
What God wants God gets God help us all
What God wants God gets
What God wants God gets God help us all
What God wants God gets
(repeating)
tt:
Just to reiterate, I was not talking about any personal fantasies or desires on my part, nor am I in any way homophobic (BTW, none of those are exclusively homosexual anyway). I was just playing with his name.
I wasn't saying I wanted to do any of those things to him, or wanted to see images of any of those things, or wanted to email pictures of PZ doing those things, or anything like the 20 or so other inane, creepy, and otherwise trollish comments you were making in the earlier thread.
If you weren't thinking of "gang banging" as a violent act (as per wikipedia -- Duh! Should've checked there, I guess!), then why the fuck did it sound exactly as if you did? Please don't even attempt to deny it.
If they did not deserve it, then why do you rejoice in the fact that they are dead?
Perhaps he was afraid that people would call him Granny.
Wowbagger,
Now I am starting to understand. One can be offensive for its own sake, but it has to be funny.
So the problem with my posts the other day was that they were simply not funny. If I had just been wittier, then nobody would have been offended by my overtly sexual posts?
OR does it matter at whom the offense is directed toward? If I had just left out PZ in the scenarios, perhaps the ire wouldn't have been so noticeable. (Still not funny though. I get it)
Or like today, if one makes offensive comments against appropriate targets ie Roberts, then there is no problem. They weren't that funny, were they Wowbagger?
And I do get the idea of the post. My comments about Landon, Swayze, and Jackson, were random, as whenever I think of dead people, I think of those three as people I was glad to see extinguished. I always hated Landon since Highway to Heaven.
btw, Mr T, I wasn't offended by your comments.
GOR ?
SRSLY ?
So, who here believes in Oral Roberts between consenting adults?
So you will rejoice in the death of anyone whose acting you dislike?
Yes, SRSLY, according to Wikipedia, the Fount of All Knowledge, Wisdom and Morality: human, cephalopod, or otherwise.
Owlmirror
Well, I did say glad to see extinguished. I didn't actually have a celebration where I invited all my friends over to party.
I didn't mention his acting as the reason either. He was a producer/writer on that show and came up with many of the inane and overtly spiritual story lines. He is as guilty as Roberts in some ways, since he legitimized spiritual belief, and was an admired figure, unlike Roberts ever was.
I would never invite Roberts to the party with Landon and Swayze. I wouldn't want to wake up my comatose gag reflex.
What a psychopathic ass you are. So people who annoy you should be killed, huh?
@Janine, She Wolf of Pharyngula,
I was disappointed that she did that, at the same time I can see her mindset. She grew up listening to these morons; Junior high school education and a bible thumping, old school Evangelical Southern Baptist from the backwoods of the Ozark Mtns. Need I say more.
She lost her oldest son to childhood illness, and my dad only made it to his mid 40's due to a bad ticker. Yes, it does sicken me to know that she sent him about $500 (this was back in the 70's), but she believed in miracles and was hoping to get one by giving him cash. In a way, I'm content to know that he is no longer able to take people's money.
And, I loved Little House on the Prairie, and he wasn't any a better actor on that show than he was on Highway to Heaven. case closed. :)
I just had a big crap. I hereby dedicate it to the fraudster.
atarina,
Calm down. You are leaping to conclusions. I never advocated their deaths, nor did I actually wish for it before they died. I merely said that I was glad, not sad, that they were dead. I will be glad, not sad, when Sean H is dead, or Glenn B. I do not wish for, nor advocate them being killed. Your jump is ludicrous and creepy.
Ah. So you rejoice at the deaths of those who write things that are inane.
May I infer that you are going to great effort to make sure that your own funeral will be one big happy party for those who feel like you do?
What did Patrick Swayze -- of all people -- write that you judge him as having been deserving of death?
Comment by tt blocked. [unkill][show comment]
I'm really starting to love my killfile.
I reserve the right to be glad at whomever dies. I didn't say it was rational. It is just how I felt. Sorry if it hurts your feelings.
BTW. Why aren't you defending MJ? Were you glad to see him dead as well?
tt,
*blink blink* Moi?
So why grace us with knowledge of who you are glad is dead? It has nothing to do with Oral Roberts, a man who endlessly promoted politics and quackery that did and does kill people and ruin lives.
Do us a favor and keep it to yourself next time.
KITY
No, your opinions are ludicrous and creepy. Get a mirror.
I think Suicidal Tendencies has the perfect eulogy for Oral,
Here comes another con hiding behind a collar
His only god is the almighty dollar
He ain't no prophet, he ain't healer
He's just a two bit goddamn money stealer
Send me your money
Send it, you got to send it
Send me your money
You hear what I'm saying?
Send it, send it
Send me your money
How much you give is your own choice
But to me it is the difference between a Porsche and a Rolls Royce
I want you to make it hurt when you dig into your pocket
Cause it makes me feel so good to watch my profits rocket
Send me your money
Now dig in deep, dig real deep into your pocket
I want you to make it hurt!
We'll take cash, we'll take checks
We'll take credit cards, we'll take jewelry
We'll take your momma's dentures if they got gold in them
So whose gonna be the next king of the fakers
Whose gonna take the place of Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker?
See my momma, she didn't raise no fool
Couse you can't put a price on a miracle
Amen
Isn't this a forum to express one's opinion? You want me to keep my opinions to myself, so as not to say something you don't like? You crack me up Atarina. Good night.
Naked Bunny With a Whip:
That video of Orals' sex talk gets me going every time! Hilarious!
Jeff:
Too many people stood by when this asshole was scamming people out of millions. He was also responsible for paving the way for other televangelist douche-bags polluting the airways, such as Benny 'The Hair-do' Hinn, Jim 'PTL' Bakker, and Jimmy 'The Sleaze Ball Swaggart, Kenneth 'Hi Flyer' Copeland and Creflo 'Mr. Mega-Bucks' Dollar.
Televangelists are some of the worst of the worst humanity has to offer! He, and others like him, deserve every comment they get from people like myself and others here. Thankfully, now that he's gone, that's one less religious crook we have to worry about. Unfortunately, there are probably dozens more to fill his slime covered shoes.
Ah. So you rejoice at people's deaths for no particular reason. Any man's death enlarges you?
I was taking it one step at a time, but since there's no reason whatsoever to your hatreds, there's not much point in investigating further now.
@ 245,
Not really.
tt the creep,
No, it's that they were tasteless, misplaced and creepy.
Interesting but creepy choice of words there.Might have to reinstall killfile, it got lost at the last OS overhaul.
Ha!
Seriously though, I have some sympathy for the message I guess you intended to convey.
It's generally in poor taste to revel in the death of another person. Someone loved Oral Roberts.
But I don't see PZ reveling. He notes the death. He notes Oral was a fraud. And there's a pleasant little joke about a damned man buying his time on Earth with ill-gotten wealth. Or perhaps that's an allusion to a Faustian bargain where no amount of wealth and power will save him.
Either way, PZ didn't even say that the world is slightly better for Oral's death. And that's a bit more taboo than graveyard comedy, isn't it? But it's true. Even though someone loved him.
Oral Roberts was a bad person. There's no reason to stop saying it now just because he's dead.
No time for revelry tonight, though.
But when Fred Phelps dies, I will assuredly be attending the parties, probably braying drunk in the streets, and hopefully making time to share the gift of sodomy.
Can't say I agree that public schadenfreude over the death of a bad person necessarily makes us indecent. Assuming I'm wrong about that, though, I'll offer that the little bit of relief may still be worth it, poor taste be damned.
tt,
That's what I was doing, telling you my opinion. We do have a topic and you were seemingly attempting to derail the thread to discuss your grudge against Mr T, then you graced us with your wholly inappropriate list of dead celebrities. I'll try to repress my urge to bother you for awhile then, okay?
No, but you said some ghastly things tonight (again) that were way off topic.
You confuse me. I don't get you. But g'night anyhow.
I condemn this man's life and much of what he preached and advocated, because he hurt and exploited others. I will not silence my criticisms even in the face of his passing. I am glad that there will less fundamentalist bile in the world.
But I'm not going to whoop and hollar because he passed away. I may not respect the man, but I understand that his friends and his families are in great pain...They may hate me, condemn me or consider me utterly blasphemous, but I extend my sympathies to them because they are people just like me, and they, like me, have just felt the unimaginable pain of loss.
When someone extremely unpleasant passes away, especially someone who thrived on hatred, we have a choice to either perpetuate that hate or counter it with compassion. This doesn't mean we need to silence our criticism of his life, for if we did we would be untrue to ourselves. But by showing sympathy, by rejecting the instinct to rejoice in the suffering of others, we demonstrate that we will go beyond the simple pettiness that quite honestly characterizes so much of fundamentalism. We show the best of humanity in those moments.
Happy Monkey!
Yes, Pharyngula, there is a Santa Claus.
Two down, how many to go?
I'll put Robertson and Warren down for my lot in the betting pool.
tt, try and read for comprehension.
Oral Roberts = demonstrable liar and con-man who fleeced foolish people out of money to make himself rich by promising them something he had no way of knowing would occur (i.e. pleasing their god in such a way they would go to heaven).
Michael Landon, on the other hand = actor/producer of awful television shows ranging from the saccharine to the banal.
You can't perceive a significant difference between them?
Okay, maybe I have time for a little revelry. Someone needs to invent us a tasty, preferably green, slow-acting drink, called the kakapo because it fucks your head.
Still discussing the "are you rejoicing?" thingie after over 300 comments, eh?
I'm not glad he died. It's too little, too late.
Send them a sympathy card or something, then, because they aren't going to be reading this thread. I wouldn't go knock on their door and tell them I just felt the world get lighter. But I'm glad that there's somewhere we can whoop and holler and share a round of kakapos.
strange gods before me, OM:
Well, you could call it that if you like. You may need to add something sweet if you want it extra-tasty.
Mmm, sounds like a waste of weed, though. THC is large and not very polar, so alcohol really isn't ideal for extraction or delivery.
Could not happen to a more deserving fellow!
Mr. T, I'd've thought of absinthe, not dope, but heh anyway.
Yep, but it's fat soluble.
You know what I'm thinking about right now?
Bacon.
Nobody wishes death upon anybody. However, this guy was a con artist who made money off the faith of fellow Christians. He was a criminal and his death is truly no loss to society.
Kristine: What are AtBC and UD? As a bisexual, I think I would like pleasurian husbands. I contacted a man called Spooky Tom who sells DVDs of old crappy sci-fi movies. I'm having trouble with YouTube--no sound.
I mentioned this on another blog: members of Oral's family were his partners in crime. I have no sympathy for them.
@#30 kc5tty
were you quoting Mark 15:29-30?
Unless the Pastafarians are correct, at the very least we can know this about the death of this faith-healing con-artist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntkC-o52weI
There's always something to celebrate.
He's not burning in hell forever, but if he actually believed any of that nonsense then he probably had an interesting time speculating about it.
Randy Newman told a great story about his Dad, who was Oral Robert's doctor:
That's the only thing I know about Oral Roberts, but I think it's past enough.
It doesn't do the atheist cause any good to rejoice in the death of others.
So dancing a wild jig would be inappropriate? Laughing at the thought that God finally got Oral is somehow wrong? Knowing deep down in my heart that the world is a slightly better place today could be considered uncharitable?
Too bad. I'll miss ole Oral like I'd miss the passing of a blood filled deer tick. And yet my cause is still strong!
Mr. T @ #26
How about Auto-erotic Asphyxia Roberts? Oh, wait. Is it too soon? Sorry Mr. Carradine.
That would have been the way for Oral to go. Slumped in the closet amongst his snazzy suits, expensive tie around his neck. Sloppy grin beneath a pair of half lidded petechial hemorrages. Hand rigor wracked, clenched relentlessly around his dick which is now the same color as his oxygen starved face. A viscous, congealed wad of his final salute drying slowly on his shoes and the coat in front of him.
They could do an open casket. Hopefully someone would have the forethought to procure a recording of "Oh Come All Ye Faithful" for the afternoon's proceedings.
@smoggyBatzrubble, #202; @Mr T #204
Point taken, and I agree. The guy isn't a worthy recipient of any sort of praise. The only reason I draw a line here is because of that stereotype that we're all a bunch of evil baby-eating monsters that do nothing but rag on the dead folks we don't like, figure out ways to trash the bible, and other similar things that would make the baby Jesus cry etc etc. I'm always a fan of breaking stereotypes for PR gains. I guess I'm a little too PC for this thread though, so buenos noches.
The saddest thing is, that no matter how much we rag on him, it still won't give those poor folks their money back.
Yeah, well Hitchens may be a good debater, but he's full of crap on a lot of points.
There's no reason believing in gods or not would make you a better person. As I believe Huxley once said, addressing the monotheist, "we are equally atheistic towards the Hindu patheon, etc, I simply believe in one less god than you do" or something to that effect.
However, there IS some evidence that suggests that people who do bad things might flock towards religion to avoid guilt. Near the end of the "The Authoritarians" Altemeyer talks about the connection between right-wing authoritarianism and self-righteousness and I believe he also cites the research about how these people deal with conflicts (though I may be conflating it with someone else's work!). In short, the self-righteous person who believes she has wronged someone else appeals to God for forgiveness, whereas the control confronts the person he thinks he wronged to settle the matter... the latter strategy is of course more costly. A selfish person or a social dominator is going to prefer the former strategy, and religion provides a cognitive-dissonance-free way to access this strategy.
So I think there may be some truth to the idea of religious memes as the facilitators of evil. But, any highly authoritarian structure could theoretically result in the same end. So theism per se is not a necessary component. (Indeed, Altemeyer finds there is a connection between RWA and denomination but not necessarily between RWA and theism, and in fact, a number of atheists score highly on the RWA scale ... echoes of Hitchens, perhaps?) When Russell, who was a Socialist or nearly so, denounced Stalinism, it was because he saw in it all the evils of religion.
My point, in short, is that even if you do find a correlation between religiosity and anti-social behavior, you have a causation problem. (It is known that atheist and anti-social behavior appear to be anti-correlated, at least in the US, which again, disconfirms the hoary religionist claim that atheism leads to violence.)
(there are probably spelling and other errors in the above post)
An interesting quote I just came across
Epicurus (341–270 B.C.), Greek philosopher
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
#350 (Bone Oboe): That is revolting. tt's posts on this thread are also quite disgusting.
Criticising the late Oral Roberts is fine with me. As many have pointed out, he was a professional conman who made a lot of money swindling the poor, and I won't mourn for him. But this doesn't give people carte blanche to post disturbing and depraved sexually-explicit content on this thread. There's a big difference between being honest about your opinion, and going out of your way to disgust and offend others.
I realise many people around here think I'm some sort of prissy maiden aunt who reacts with disgust to any mention of human reproduction. This is not the case; I have no problem with people talking about sex, when it's relevant. But there are some thoughts and ideas that are best kept inside one's own head (or, alternatively, shared on one of the many sites which exist specifically for that purpose, rather than here).
Incidentally, how does one install killfile? Does it work on Internet Explorer? (*runs away from rampaging mob of Firefox fanatics*) :-)
Doesnt work on IE since it's a Firefox addon as far as I know.
You install the greasemonkey addon to FF, then get this file and install it, that's it.
At most, I would regret Roberts' passing only in this one sense: with it we lose yet another instructive lesson in just why so-called 'faith' is in no way a virtue... And a nice, vivid reminder of what was probably a principal reason any number of rather ugly little confidence schemes throughout human history have promoted it as such all the same...
I say I would regret it in that sense, except that we all know it changes very little, at least in the current context. Insofar as any number of sleazoids will no doubt arise to take up his torch, and to bilk whomsoever they can in the name of whichever god they can sell them.
Still, in the measurable hope that people may just be getting that little bit smarter on average about cons of this general form of con, I guess I could also think of this as 'One more down...', at least, anyway...
I feel something vaguely similar, incidentally, with the passing of each religiot troll from these threads. Each was similarly a convenient object lesson: 'This is your brain on religion'. But there will, no doubt, always be others.
(/And often others so tediously similar that I will feel a distinct sense of déjà vu.)
Zero known unpatched security threats in Firefox.
Three known unpatched security threats in Internet Explorer.
time for
Celebration with Kool And The Gang
Oral Roberts is a nobody in the UK, so I didn't originally have anything much to say about the "news". However, this blog entry does remind me of a previous one and Kristine's excellent line:
Get off it! Oral was one of the best living arguments for euthanasia.
As are indeed the rest of god's swindlers who head-fuck the feeble-minded, and take their money for doing it.
Any of those preachers leave the world a better place by dying, which they sadly don't do fast enough. And everyone should piss on their graves (preferably during the burial), and on their memories. Don't just leave it to the dogs.
Natasha @ #325
I wondered when ST's "Send me Your Money" was going to make an appearance. If you hadn't have quoted it I would! On the Suicidal Tendencies song theme, regarding this thread I suppose that saying "Two Wrongs don't make a right, but they make me feel a whole lot better" kind of works.
It's a better fit IMO then Tool's "Eulegy" which I always seem to associate with Bill Hicks... Obviously I could be wrong as I often am with these things!
http://www.sclrcf.rg/shwthrd.php?t=4398
THSM S DD!
Sng, y sh*ts...
http://www.nfdlgy.cm/ftpcp-15952.html
THSM S DD, LT'S CLBRT!!!
"Oral Roberts ... died Tuesday."
That's one less stupid asshole poisoning the minds of innocent children. The world always becomes a slightly better place when a preacher man drops dead.
Yawn, boring troll is AID. Boring. Boring. Boring. And wrong.
Good riddance! Oral Roberts and such are proof positive that there is no god. If god existed, he would have seen to it that none would have survived the first trimester.
To those concerned about tone:
Oral Roberts was a faith healer. He told hundreds of thousands of people that their sickness, their pain and suffering, their deaths, were no big deal.
All we are seeing here is that he is reaping what he himself sowed.
Also, those close to Oral - if they are faithful, why are they mourning? Why are they unhappy? Don't they believe, I mean actually believe that Oral is enjoying a permanent vacation in a place that makes Oahu look like the bottom of a cesspit?
Surely, if they actually believed that, they'd be dancing in the streets that he's finally done with having an aching, decrepit, failing body, and gone on to the light everlasting.
They're not dancing, and they're getting mad at those that are.
Draw from that the conclusion you wish.
Oh, and feel free to mock me after I'm dead in any way you see fit.
I won't care.
I'll be dead.
Finch, #199
Wait, isn't that in fact encouraging them to engage in usury?
Isn't usury a sin or something?
*confused. Or, to be exact, more confused than usually*
Methuselah lived to be 969 years old. I guess God has cut down the lifespan of his prophets by quite a margin? Only explanation.
As far as I am concerned, I AM rejoicing at this man's death, and it didn't come soon enough.
Back in the 80's, his organization conned the administration of a small overseas charity--one that I was and am familier with--out of their mailing list. They used it to their own gain, and, of course, provided none of the monies they promised the charity from their "support" in return. This was pre-personal computer--and the charity was and is very small. They ended up losing their whole list, and had to re-create it from scratch, crippling them for several years, and thus serious limiting the hands-on pre-and post natal care services and medical services the organization provided to poverty-stricken families in the middle east.
I also tried to explain to my elderly neighbor (roughly the same time period) that letters automatically generated by direct mail merge techniques were NOT personal letters specifically addressing her-were not, in fact, personal appeals--in an attempt to see why she could keep her money in her own bank account instead of sending it to Oral and his like.
The man was scum, living off the blood, sweat, and tears of others.
Oral Roberts didn't meet his fundraising quota this year
Maybe. Or maybe Fundamentally Oral Bill finally met his.
We're not rejoicing in the suffering of others. We're expressing our pleasure that a cause of suffering has finally died.
Empty rhetoric. What are you doing that is compassionate? All you are doing is stroking your ego by lecturing people who are doing no harm to Oral Roberts, Oral Roberts' family, or you.
As long as we do so in a way personally approved by Sethosayher. Otherwise, we're perpetuating hate.
Fuck that. I'm not perpetuating hate in the slightest. By tomorrow, I will have once again stopped thinking about Oral Roberts in any fashion, just as I wasn't thinking about him yesterday morning. But Oral Roberts' legacy -- his family and his massive political machine -- will still be bilking money from the poor, spreading bigotry, and crushing the minds and spirits of thousands. Oral Roberts will still be causing misery and death from beyond the grave, while I won't have caused the slightest blip of angst for those grieving the man.
So fuck you and your little superiority complex. We're celebrating Oral Roberts' death because of compassion -- the compassion we have for his victims.
FTW.
(/Hell, I know I tried to set a few hundred bucks aside for that drive annually...)
I shed no tears for another crook biting the dust.
And what's the big deal about being able to heal by the laying on of hands?
I've healed several cases of erectile disfunction in that manner.
A priest I know celebrated with Sagan died. I this this is fair turnabout.
-course that same priest would probably celebrate Roberts' death too.
Yeah, but who calls that livin' when no gal will give in to no man with 900 years?
Given that it's the "raisin date" of fundy death-cultists to celebrate death, isn't it entirely appropriate, anyway, to celebrate their own deaths?
PZ, cleanup needed on comments 362 and 363! Dennis left a mess again!
@378
The guy is ill. And not in the cool way.
No.
(Alyson Miers)
Re #367: You've nailed it. The simple fact is the religious believers, with some exceptions, are no less fearful of death than anyone else: they go to doctors when they are sick, do what they can to prolong their lives, and are sorrowful when their loved ones die. If they honestly believed that they were going to Heaven upon death, and that Heaven "makes Oahu look like the bottom of a cesspit" (great turn of a phrase, by the way), they couldn't wait to die, or--at least--wouldn't fear death just like everyone else does.
Only the good die young - Billy Joel
There have been multiple comments here about "Autofellatio Roberts", which are most unseemly.
To accomplish such a feat would require degrees of both length and limberness far beyond the capacities of the dearly departed.
Does anybody here have a celebratory link summing up the pecuniary peccadilloes of OR's son (and, of course, the amatory adventures of his daughter-in-law)? There are a couple of good movies in those stories of Roberts family values (though the latter would only be suited for those premium-price cable channels).
Gee Walton, one might even think you're a prude.
A family funeral is a private affair which I respect so I would not picket Roberts' like that other Christian creep does. But honestly I have no empathy for Roberts' family. They are part of the problem. Would you not disown a relative like Roberts if you had one? I sure would.
If there are relatives of his who criticized his shady dealings or are too young to know better, who may be feeling uncomfortable at his death, I would have some empathy for them. But for the relatives who supported and agreed with Roberts? They are no different from him. Roberts does not merit any empathy, and nor does anyone like him, even if they happen to be relatives by the accident of birth.
Linguistics Rule #107: Everything before the "but" is bullshit.
Your concern is noted.
Now where'd my party hat go?
Hear, hear!
But to plagarise/paraphrase a Spike Milligan "I want to be buried up a tree so that after my death people will look up to me."
I will pray for oral, like I do every day.
Walton,
is just what I was aiming for.
But, it's not my fault, Mr. T made me do it.
I've always wanted to say that...
One less!
:-)
That old lying sack of shit actually did me a something of a favor, indirectly and unintentionally, many years ago.
Back in the mid-80s when I was doing physics research at Oklahoma State University, the library wasn't great so I used to put in a lot of inter-library loan requests. Quite frequently the ILL books came in from ORU, which is only 60-ish miles away in Tulsa.
You know how a book that has never been read makes that cracking sound when you open it? I soon realized could tell, with nearly 100% reliability, which books had come from ORU just by opening them and listening for that sound. Or I could look at the signout card - in almost every case my due date was the only one on the card.
So it seems 'ol Oral bought himself a library that practically nobody used. Accreditation is a such nuisance, what with all those pesky rules about having halfway decent libraries and such. But it was certainly handy for me to have books arrive so quickly, and in such excellent condition.
Anyway, you know that there's this sculpture of a big set of open hands in front of ORU? We used to joke that the way to get the hands to close was to throw a nickel in there.
And the "Send Oral to heaven in '87! No $$$" bumper stickers are probably a collector's item now.
Bone Oboe. That was thoroughly disgusting. Keep it up. (reminded me of a Bill Hicks rant, and was well-written to boot).
@ NoOneOfConsequence #187 (though that will change if PZ de-Mabuses the comments)
Heh heh. Excellent.
Bows low...
Thanks Sasqwatch. Though I must give a nod to
Mr. T. I was just riffing on his list of Alternate Roberts'.
I don't always connect when I swing, but this one was like tee-ball, fish in a barrel and taking candy from a...You get the picture.
One fewer - they're countable entities not a continuum.
Whose next?
Dobson?
Robertson?
Graham?
I vote Dobson.
Dear God,
Please aim one of your most powerful lightening bolts at the space right between James Dobson's eyes.
@345 Breadmaker ..
No I wasn't quoting any bible verse. (Kinda fits though.) Just the thought that IF he could heal, why couldn't he heal himself???
Seems that when faith healers get sick, they go to the doctor. e.g. Oral, Motha T, and the rest......
(I realize that Mother Theresa wasn't a faith healer) I just wish all those who scam others could get their just desserts.
Steve
I heard about the death of Oral on CBC radio. They were saying nice things about him and I couldn't figure out why.
Listening to THAT and knowing my tax dollars paid for it was way more disgusting than even Bone Oboe's best effort. And bravo, that was truly gross.
Graham will die before Robertson, who will die before Dobson.
We had this rather macabre game we did around New Year's eve back at Uni, where the whole floor came together to name 10 people we thought might die in the coming year, whoever got the most ones right would win some booze or something, I forget.
Was great fun tho.
:)