It sure would be nice if we could just blame the Texans

hmmm...retarded. is that offensive? i never can tell. i say it sometimes, but then i feel like maybe i just insulted a group of people. although it is a clinical term as well. i don't know.

Yeah, I saw that this morning. Great stuff, and largely true.

Ray, former Texas resident

I feel sorry for the 2% that believe god controls something that they don't believe in.

@Ewan R Thats what I was thinking. The stats are a bit off there.

Makes no sense.
53% do NOT believe in evolution and 51% believe evolution is controlled by God?
It means that there is a 4% that does not believe in evolution BUT thinks that evolution is controlled by God!?

51% of Texans don't believe in evolution while 53% believe that evolution is controlled by God. Good thing Texans don't believe in math either or we'd have a problem with that.

-Another ex-Texan

I can't agree with the last stat though: excluding east Dallas makes little sense to me and Austin is marginal.

I feel sorry for the 2% that believe god controls something that they don't believe in.

Actually it's anywhere between 4% and 51%, depending on how many people believe in natural evolution without divine intervention.

OK to pick on Texans (especially if you are one like the cartoonist), but there's also plenty of fundamentalism in non-stereotypically-moronic Chicago and New York.
Just sayin'

Also, we don't know the source of the figures, so they could be from different polls and therefore an artifact of sampling error, how the poll was worded, people interpreting the question differently, or they could simply be made up.

You can add a big fat chunk of central California to that unfortunate Texas demographic.

@ uppity cracka #1:

retarded. is that offensive?

That's a tone/taste issue which is irrelevant as to whether or not the statement is true. It shouldn't be "freaking retarded" though. It's almost certainly "religiously retarded". Mentally, educationally, morally and emotionally retarded.

While it's possible that a lot of them would like to be mentally lazy and pig ignorant anyway, it's unlikely that they'd all come up with those specific educational demonstrations of retardation on their own - ie as systematic errors. They'd be more likely to each have different ones (with some general trends recurring, as with typos).

A big point (be it bug or feature) of having religious dogma is exactly that sort of artificial retardation - trying to hold to that which was set (like concrete!) in a specific time and place. Unfortunately, it's all jerry-built (dodgy concrete which renders the whole edifice rotten) rather than any of it being divinely inspired. So it always ends up being systematic retardation rather than elevation.

Whereas, the people without the concrete overshoes can advance (within their own limits). They don't have that externally imposed hindrance. They can even try to drag a few of the others who are still mired in religion along with them, kicking and screaming all the way. Hence the belated and incremental improvements which do befall ancient religions.

It means that there is a 4% that does not believe in evolution BUT thinks that evolution is controlled by God!?

Or that 4% is within the margin of error on the poll, in addition to explanations stated above.

You can add a big fat chunk of central California to that unfortunate Texas demographic.

Hey, we're doing the best we can to pull the stats up here. There are now *THREE* freethinker/skeptic groups meeting and sponsoring events in Bakersfield.

Does seem that the lack of the ability to discern truth would be an argument against some "intelligent designer." I mean, either way, clearly a lot of people are wrong, and you'd suppose that a god who is oddly offended at not being acknowledged might, you know, have made humans who'd know and acknowledge him better. Or know and acknowledge evolution, "if that's true."

What's missing, though, is that a bunch of people who can't tell science from woo want to condemn those who happen to be able to distinguish quite clearly. So the lack of reason behind the theology of a god who's too damn stupid to make humans who'd recognize "his work" is not at all the point

Ripping into those bastards who think science is more reliable than old magic words is the primary motivation (of course variants as well), and no, they can't reason things out.

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p

I certainly know how the guy in the last panel feels. I often have to apologize for my state's stupidity.

On the use of "retarded": From my understanding, it's just another instance of people using terminology for those with mental disabilities. "Moron" and "Idiot" originally referred specifically to certain low IQ ranges.

hmmm...retarded. is that offensive?

IARIYAAR

I'm a Texan who tries to avoid using the word "retarded" or "tard" as an insult. It's not retarded people's (or their families') fault they're retarded, and they get tired of hearing that shit.

Besides, comparing Texans to retarded people is insulting to retarded people.

@ Bronze Dog #16:

From my understanding, it's just another instance of people using terminology for those with mental disabilities.

No, retard / retardation has a (Latin!) meaning which was co-opted later by the medics. Don't let them steal exclusive use of the word that way.

Eg: if a girl, stuck in a region controlled by an extreme patriarchal religion, has been denied the opportunity to go to school and prevented from acquiring an education in any other manner and then from having any sort of professional career or independent life, has she or has she not been (artificially) retarded from her potential - in who she would otherwise be and what she would otherwise have achieved?

Ouch! Good on him to place the disclaimer, but let's not forget that bits of Houston are also pretty accepting of reality. If Dallas and Houston weren't both choking on Car Culture, I'd consider living in either; as it is, I'll stay safely in Austin until I find a good job on a proper oceanic coast.

Hey Friday Cephalopods,

If you haven't yet heard, the esteemed Texas State Climatologist, Dr. John Nielson-Gammon, is making his case on the Texas Governor's Perry's lawsuit against the EPA over at The Wonk Room:

Texas State Climatologist Disputes State’s Denier Petition: Greenhouse Gases ‘Clearly Present A Danger To The Public Welfare’.
and at Joe Romm's Climate Progress:

Texas state climatologist disputes state’s anti-science petition: Greenhouse gases “clearly present a danger to the public welfare.”

Bring friends, two-tone or otherwise.

I usually stick with foolish, intentionally ignorant and dishonest as criticisms of the right. That helps avoid the concerns about whether retarded, idiot, moron, or other insults are insulting those who have serious challenges in learning.

If that's an accurate stat there's nothing special about Texas and evolution. According to the Pew Forum poll from Feb 2009 52% of all Americans reject evolution.

*sigh*
The comic author's a 9-11 truther
http://www.farleftside.com/2010/1-22-2010.html

I wasn't familiar the details of that kook-flavor, but xkcd came to the rescue...
http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11962
----
Not a fan of the comic in general, but this was a nice observation.
http://www.farleftside.com/2008/5-9-08.html
----
I'm new here. Are there commenting rules somewhere?
I recall dungeonable offences, but is there a list of etiquette?

A ray of hope:

Saturday 2-20-10 is a belated Darwin Day Celebration at Houston Museum of Natural Science featuring Roy Zimmerman to entertain and Neil Immega to enlighten. 1:00 - 5:00 if you happen to be in the neighborhood.

Info is at www.humanistsofhouston.org.

Belgian coma patient can't talk after all!!
Finally the truth comes out. Gonna blow the book deal.

BS

Posted in wrong thread. Apologies.

BS

SEF,

No, retard / retardation has a (Latin!) meaning which was co-opted later by the medics. Don't let them steal exclusive use of the word that way.

English still has that sense, we can talk about something being advanced vs. retarded relative to something else; mentally retarded is just a specific case of that. (Not keeping to the normal intellectual development schedule.)

Still, it's a lost battle as far as the connotations when you call somebody "retarded" without a qualifier. (As opposed to an intensifier like "freaking," as in the cartoon.)

That's why people use it---they're calling people mentally retarded.

Unfortunately, I think saying "culturally retarded," or "morally retarded" still sounds like you're comparing them to "tards". (I've been called out for that.) Bummer.

I regret the loss of "retarded" and "retard" from my insult vocabulary, but it is pretty tacky. (I don't miss it nearly as much as "bitch," though. I wish that there was an equivalent nonsexist term that had the same kind of bite.)

Oh, and in case anybody missed it, I was joking about Texans. (No, really, Mom!) PZ's right; Texans on average aren't much worse than other Americans in most regards. Many Texans are relatively enlightened, and the problems are everywhere. (The cartoonist is wrong about it being just Austin and an area near Dallas. Houston, for example, is the largest U.S. city to have an openly gay mayor, and the only major city with an openly gay mayor who's a woman.)

On the constructive suggestions side, what are people's favorite cutting insult nouns and adjectives, etc. that don't have these problems? (Not like calling somebody a bitch, a tard, or a Texan.)

I like "dumbfuck" but it doesn't work in no-profanity contexts. I also like referring to somebody's "sheer weaselry," but I need an insult-a-day calendar to improve my vocabulary.

Get me out of here!

@ Paul W. #28:

when you call somebody "retarded" without a qualifier.

The significant qualifier I normally use (see above) is "artificially" - as in it's something which has been done to them (compared with what they themselves could otherwise have been) rather than it being their natural (fully realised potential) state in comparison with a population average.

Similar to the situation with the artificially retarded foot growth of chinese women, whose feet were deliberately broken and bound because someone else didn't like what they might otherwise become (viz free individuals).

#1: It's considered offensive by a number of disability rights groups; there was also a recent dust-up involving Rahm Emmanuel using it as an honest descriptor in the clinical sense, then Rush Limbaugh skewering him for it but then using the word himself, then Sarah Palin incomprehensibly claiming that Rahm using it clinically was offensive, but Rush using it as an insult was a-ok.

I personally have tried to stop using it, because it's a term that does hurt a lot of people and when I see it I can clearly remember taunts of children at school calling other kids with learning disabilities "retards", and I really don't want to be like them. I'm a little torn about its existence because it does still have a clinical use, but it's also been really tarnished by its common use.

[...]Sarah Palin incomprehensibly claiming that Rahm using it clinically was offensive, but Rush using it as an insult was a-ok.

What's so hard to understand about that?

It's the same reason black people can use the n-word.

Mentally handicapped people take offense being compared to Texans.

Mentally handicapped people take offense being compared to Texans.

Oh yeah, podnah? Maybe so, but a Texan beat you to that gag.

Smile when you say that, pilgrim.

Texans talk offense being compared to Texans.

In Texan's defense, Molly Ivins and the guys who got the sodomy law overturned are also from Texas. And George "Dubya" Bush is not, really. He's a New England tax dodger.

I really miss using "pussy" as an insult. But, as my wife has pointed out, there is nothing weak about vaginas. Kinda miss being completely immature---as opposed to just mostly immature now.

Dianne beat me to it. Every time I'm tempted to think ill of Texans, I remember Molly Ivins.

Also Ann Richards.

Also Horton Foote, Bill Hicks, Linda Ellerbee, Patricia Highsmith, Tommy Lee Jones, Lightnin' Hopkins, Wes Anderson, Amanda Marcotte, Tex Avery, Carol Burnett, the Dixie Chicks, Jim Thompson, Liz Smith, and huge crowds of others.

And in particular: Every liberal in the Lone Star State with the guts to stand up to the ignorant-and-proud-of-it a-holes featured in that cartoon.

we don't know the source of the figures

It seems that the source of the figures is the poll mentioned here.

PZ - These stats don't look much different than Minnesota's.

Yes, we have the Twin Cities Creation Science Association. Hopefully they won't invite Jerry Bergman back for another debate as PZ schooled both him and the TCCSA.

http://www.tccsa.tc/

Molly,

Don't forget the Texas Freedom Network.

They organize a lot of the resistance to the right wing kooks on the Texas SBOE (State Board of Education).

Without them, the rest of the country would be much more screwed, textbook-wise. They do great things.

(Even if they are mostly a bunch of liberal religious types and accommodationists. :-) )

That sounds like the other 49 states and the various territories (even the 30 or so states that I haven't been to). If there were a place anywhere on the planet in which reason prevailed over superstition, wouldn't sensible people flock there?

Asked about the origin and development of life on earth without injecting humans into the discussion, and 53 percent said it evolved over time, "with a guiding hand from God."

Most of the Texans in the survey — 51 percent — disagree with the statement, "human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals."

[emphasis mine]

That explains the disparity: two different questions. 53% believe in god-directed evolution of animals, while 49% believe in evolution of humans.

@ MadScientist #42:

If there were a place anywhere on the planet in which reason prevailed over superstition, wouldn't sensible people flock there?

Are you excluding universities from consideration?

The best do have high application rates from the best possible applicants. Provision of places limits intake.

We need a word to describe "wilfully ignorant and extremely proud of it." 'Retarded' doesn't really work and has a fairly irredeemable history.

Randomfactor: There are now *THREE* freethinker/skeptic groups meeting and sponsoring events in Bakersfield.

I rejoice for the good skeptics down in oil-reeking country-western-ridden Kern County. May your tribe thrive amidst the welter of "real amurkins."

@SEF: At the moment I hang around a university to increase the intelligent:moron ratio and have half a chance of an intelligent conversation; unfortunately we must all leave at some point and return to the broader world, nor are universities spared the idiots (see PZ's own university's support for medical fraud). I'm thinking more of a mythical Eden - some place where most people are well above the global average for intelligence and courtesy.

ckitching #45... how about Palinesque?

'"We need a word to describe "willfully ignorant and extremely proud of it."'

Wold "supercilious" suffice? "Arrogant thumb-sucking"? "Congressman"?

Dianne beat me to it. Every time I'm tempted to think ill of Texans, I remember Molly Ivins.
Also Ann Richards.
Also Horton Foote, Bill Hicks, Linda Ellerbee, Patricia Highsmith, Tommy Lee Jones, Lightnin' Hopkins, Wes Anderson, Amanda Marcotte, Tex Avery, Carol Burnett, the Dixie Chicks, Jim Thompson, Liz Smith, and huge crowds of others.

And, erm, me.

I've never really understood the draw of Austin. I think it's cause my Aunt lives there and I associate going to her house with A) being the only kid, B) the boring car ride that took us through College Station and other points of enlightenment in the Hill Country and C) being bored at her house while she, my uncle, and my parents would talk about boring adult things.

Didn't help that in college (Go Coogs!), all the kids who idolized Austin were annoying gits who didn't bathe, skipped class more then me, and smoked way too much pot.

Houston, for all it's suburban glory, has some pockets of reason and forward thinking (Um, lesbian mayor? HELLO!), yet people outside of Texas seem to forget that it exists. Either that or they're from the Panhandle and Houston is this mythical city that no one goes to because they all fly out of Dallas.

Speaking of Dallas, for a while, here in NYC, whenever I would meet someone from Dallas, I would express my sincerest condolences. New Yorkers don't really get the rivalry. I tend to explain it as Houston is quiet, spread out, and international. Dallas is just tacky.

Oh, yeah, and Bush is from Maine and went to school at Yale. I have no idea how he got that accent, either.

Yay, otrame! Also, the Texas Freedom Network!

I do know what it is to be the Lone Liberal. I live in NYC and Portland now, but I spent part of my teens in Boise, Idaho; decades later, I'm still fighting the urge to spit when the Famous Potatoes State gets mentioned. Any progressives who can tough it out in aggressively red states have more balls than I do.

And sorry, Mike Stanfill (the Far Left Side cartoonist)--there are stupid people everywhere, because their ranks include all of us once in a while. However, unlike little red towns, meanness and small-mindedness are not normative in the big blue cities. That, and their excellent public transportation systems, are why I live where I do.

Part of living here is the fun of the stupid, and the range of critters.

You never know what kind of populist, progressive, libertarian, Glenn Beck Looney, Cloned George Clooney, Bible Thumpin or South Park humpin', Skoal chewin Cowboy Hat or leatherBoy in Chaps, Hard hat muscling or Che T-Shirt hustling, arm waving opinionated verbose cartoon character you're going to run into next.

It's not like Alabama. In Houston there's no real political or social culture at all. It's REALLY REALLY diverse, I've never lived anywhere with so many different groups or ethnicities, but Houston is unusual in that respect re: Texas

Paul @ 141

Don't forget the Texas Freedom Network.
They organize a lot of the resistance to the right wing kooks on the Texas SBOE (State Board of Education).

Yeah we went off for over fifteen minutes on the SBOE last night on the radio.

Of course the Texas Freedom Network is awesome, look at their subject matter. I get their newsletter, and sometimes its like reading Failblog or The Onion it's so insane you think you're reading satire.

Texas Freedom Network seems to involve a lot of school teachers. I notice when I go to events they have promoted.

Just wanted to remind everyone, this guy is Texan too.

http://texaslegislativeupdate.wordpress.com/

Check out proposition 4: The use of the word "god", prayers and the 10 commandments should be allowed at public gatherings and public educational institutions as well as permitted on government buildings and property.

Not surprising, but real sad.

43% of statistics are made up on the spot!

also, i feel obliged to point out that dinosaurs and man do in fact continue to coexist.

**also excludes large swaths of Houston, Texas.

Re:Paul W's loss of bitch, and inability to use dumbfuck in non-profanity-friendly venues...

One of my favorite fallbacks in similar situations is "Microcephalic, banjo-picking, delusional, livestock-raping, spittle-lipped, trailer-dwelling cretin"

Of course, the common belief that people espouse claiming certain words to be profane is one of my pet peeves. There simply is no rational reason to believe such things. I look at people who are offended by profanity the same way I would look at a fully grown adult who still believes in the Easter Bunny. lol It's fucking "retarded". hehhee, sorry, had to put that last part just to follow the thread.

Chris

"Moron" and "Idiot" originally referred specifically to certain low IQ ranges. - Bronze Dog

That's true of "moron", a deliberate coinage, but not of "idiot", which was an everyday word adopted for quasi-technical use. From the online etymological dictionary:

moron: 1910, from Gk. (Attic) moron, neut. of moros "foolish, dull" (probably cognate with Skt. murah "idiotic;" L. morus "foolish" is a loan-word from Gk.). Adopted by the American Association for the Study of the Feeble-minded with a technical definition "adult with a mental age between 8 and 12;" used as an insult since 1922 and subsequently dropped from technical use.

idiot: c.1300, "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning," from O.Fr. idiote "uneducated or ignorant person," from L. idiota "ordinary person, layman," in L.L. "uneducated or ignorant person," from Gk. idiotes "layman, person lacking professional skill," lit. "private person," used patronizingly for "ignorant person," from idios "one's own" (see idiom).

My dad still uses the gender-neutral term 'shit for brains' as his 'go-to' term of derision.

It works for him as both a rhetorical question: "Does that woman have shit for brains?" (uttered during the Biden-Palin debate) and as a title: "Gov. Shit for Brains there" (injected into his political commentary during the election.)