I thought the town was bad before, when they cancelled the high school prom because a young woman was going to bring a female date to it. But then there was a ray of hope: the school administrators changed their minds. There would be a prom after all, and Constance McMillen could bring her date! Wow! A progressive, reasonable attitude was prevailing!
Except not.
They had organized a new prom, all right…a prom just for Constance McMillen. The principal and teachers showed up to chaperone Constance, her date, and all of five other students who showed up, including two kids with learning disabilities. They basically quarantined off seven outcasts.
What about all the other kids at the high school? They got to go to a prom, too, a special one organized by the parents for just the True American™ kids. Constance wasn't told about it, which is the amazing thing: all the kids who showed up at the alternate prom knew about it and kept it secret. That's impressive. I remember my high school, and news like that would be all over the place.
The other kids at Itawamba Agricultural High School are really special. Special scumbags. Bigots and haters and cowards. I hope they remember that for many years afterwards, that what their school is internationally known for is that it is populated with weasely little homophobes. What a disgrace.
Hang on — it's even worse than I thought. Jesus' General has the scoop: the kids at that high school created a Facebook group, "Constance quit yer cryin". Unbelievable. Here are samples of what they wrote there (they're buried now; decent human beings discovered the page and have flooded it with comments supporting McMillen and berating the cowards who played this game*):
Mitchell Henderson: lulz rug munchers are hilarious. Come join me in hell, there's ipods all around for dance parties. As long as you bring someone to scissor with.
Melody Carol: JAlthough, she asked and they said no, she should have just stfu and dealt with it. The school did not need to cancel the prom to shift attention from here. That's just gay.
Brittany Kay Brown: jeremy, that's your fault for not coming out of the closet. IAHS is not a bigoted school. This whole town is based on Christianity.
Caleb Waddle: i just wish she would shut up and quit makeing the freakin county stupid you say well its there fault but since when did the public do anything to you just shut the freak up already.
Traci Taylor: Carnathan who wants to c 2 girls makn out...especially one of them thats parents are totally against it.
I hope employers and college admissions committees find the hateful association between their names and what they say. Not that it's much of a worry for these losers; Jiffy Lube probably doesn't care much about their network trail, and Liberty University would probably consider bigotry an asset.
*Oops. Some of the people writing in opposition to that page are rather hateful, themselves.
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Well, the invitation was very white of them.
the last few weeks are enough to turn the biggest Pollyannas into grumpy misanthropes. humans can be such assholes.
While I think this was completely despicable, in the end, one wonders why Constance would want to socialise with these germs.
PZ wrote:
Yeah, and so are their parents, who were part and parcel of this plan. It's bad enough when teenagers are vicious and cruel (as they so often are), but these parents? Scumbags.
I am disgusted. But sadly, not surprised.
What will be the next group it's okay to be bigoted against, once homosexuals are accepted? It seems that some people feel the need to divide people - ANY people - by whatever they can brand as "abnormal."
Assholes.
That is horrible.
I hope that the whole school realises that it has now been disgraced internationally.
And that the class of 2010 has HUGE difficulty finding employment. Aside from the 'outcasts' of course. May they live long and prosper.
I read that article this morning and for an hour could only hear the echo in my head "really? REALLY?!" getting louder and louder.
This didn't actually happen, right?
Constance McMillen should leave town and shake the dust off of her shoes. There is so much better to be had for her.
Bravo, P.Z., well said. This is the kind of nonsense that The Church(tm) bestows upon its true believers. A kind of magical fairyland (no puns, please) where the lily white children of god's royalty dance in the moonlight to the music of the spheres, while behind the scenes, those who are thought to be different, the unadorned, the deficient, and the drab, toil in never ending squalor serving the whims of their righteous masters.
Except it's all bullshit--the stench of which wafts its way down the length of the bible belt; all the way to the island in Alaska where one can stand upon the shore and see Russia.
17- and 18-year-olds usually aren't. Missouri must be a deeply scary place.
They don't care. In fact, they wallow and revel in it. Just proves to them those elite-librul- wine-drinkin'-media-hippie-socialist-New York European-faggot-atheists are their enemy.
Seriously. They really don't care. If the civilized world laughs at them, it only reinforces their ignorant hick sense of True Murkan Rectitude.
David Marjanović #10
Mississippi, where Itawamba Agricultural High School is, can be even worse than Missouri.
...Turns out Missouri is a deeply scary place. It's 2 am, I'll go to bed outraged and snarl myself to sleep or something.
@David:
Missouri is scary, but this is Mississippi. Mississippi is pretty universally recognized as one of the most backward states (sorry folks from liberal areas, you know it's a sad but true generalization, and it's not an insult to you).
I'm glad, David, that you went to a school where kids this age weren't cruel and vicious. That was not, however, my experience, and I daresay it's not the experience of most any high school kid who differs from the norm. Atheist, gay, nerdy, you name it - high school is hell. That's not uncommon David, it's the norm here in America.
One of the idiots who attended the prom had his flickr page public. It was posted on both Fark and 4chan. Multiple times. I made sure of it.
Not much, but it's something.
*facepalm* And these junior cretins are supposedly HS educated? What the hell are they being taught, how to be a dumbfuck bigot bible banger? Never mind, the answer's obvious.
It's difficult to express the depth of my disgust.
<headdesk> Mississippi, not Missouri, unsurprisingly.
At that age they aren't really kids anymore (except me, LOL). I was bullied nonstop from age 7 or so to age 14, but then it faded out pretty quickly... though part of the reason may well be that all of the bullies except one left the school at 13 to 15.
There isn't a word in the English language that justifies the level of contempt I hold for the sheer ignorance exhibited by these people.
Nina probably said it best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiaSXO9--OA
And so the primary moral principle of religion is demonstrated: Ostracize the other.
And remember, kids, the world is full of childish, spiteful people that will resort to underhanded techniques to get their way, even if it means picking on teenagers!
Bah. I hope the ACLU guts them in court.
Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll need to hurl.
in my experience, most 18-year-olds are past bullying, at least where I went to school. over here OTOH, people don't seem to grow out of it until after college, if ever.
Bill @ 3:
I think the point whooshed way over your head. "Socializing" with these repugnant creatures wasn't the point. The point was being able to attend her prom with the date of her choice. It's the principle that matters.
The agricultural high school has certainly been learning those kids about how to grow stuff. We now know that Fulton, Mississippi had a bumper crop of assholes this year.
The level of spelling and grammar would lead one to believe that these students should not be graduating at all. Now we know where the tea-baggers learned to spell their signs so well. Schools in bigoted, religious small-towns across America must be churning these bozos out. Shame on them all and good luck to Constance.
Gotta say, if I were in a position to extend college offers/scholarships, I'd be looking for Constance and the others that attended the prom. Even those with learning disabilities should do better than the brats.
This.
So. Much.
And after she and anyone else 'invited' to that prom leaves, I say we build a wall around the place. And let no one else out.
(/Yes, Fulton: we're holding the 21st century out here. And, seein' as you don't so much seem interested anyway, you're not invited.)
...I really don't understand how ALL teenagers at her school could be so terrible. Some, certainly. But there isn't ONE ally willing to speak up and say "Stop acting like jackasses?" When I was in high school I bitched out more than a few people for giving my lesbian friends a hard time. I didn't give a damn if they thought I was a lesbian too because of it.
Blargh.
I would tend to think that if any school district's or class money was used for the "secret" prom, a lot of parents and the school district could end up a lot poorer. The last laugh may be elsewhere.
Given that the black students were allowed in at the secret prom, I sorta hope they'll go this route.
"Okay, now we've gotten rid of the queers. Thanks for the support, niggers. Now scram."
::shivvers::
Thanks for the Nina, MAJeff.
Is this my country? This is some serious Twilight Zone shit.
Is it possible that small towns will just continue to get worse as anyone with half a brain deserts them as quick as possible?
All this time I thought Fulton, Missouri, was the skeeviest.
I want to note that this is in no way an isolated incident. It's probably unusual for a public school these days, but parochial schools across the country still get away with bigoted shit like this all the time. If it's not in the form of physical, mental or sexual abuse, then the most cowardly option is always available: ostracism.
Facebook in the hands of teenagers is an insidious plague.
Jadehawk OM, Hardcore Left-Winger | April 6, 2010 8:11 :
And yet America has an entire political party that upholds bullying as a core principal.
because facebook itself is the problem here...
Oh, and:
Um... *raises hand*? Oh, that's right, I'm a godless heathen.
Constance did know about the other prom but wasn't invited. Which doesn't make it any less completely disgusting.
http://nems360.com/bookmark/6946554
"McMillen said she knew about that event but that when she asked another student if she was invited, the student told her, “the prom is at the country club.”
“I took that as no,” McMillen said. “If I wasn’t wanted there, I wasn’t going to go.” "
Please don't make it that easy.
Even in the fairly progressive bastion of Jackson, Mississippi can be quite hostile toward anyone with the slightest hint of actually having an education. In the southern part of the state, most high school kids seem to be breaking with the horrible attitudes of our past, it is a different story in Northeast Mississippi, the home of Don Wildmon's American Family Assoc., and I am ashamed of our state for it!
I am waiting to see just how the federal judge that signed off on the private prom will handle having himself and his court being made a fool of! The judge wrote in his opinion that there had been a clear violation of Constance's civil rights! He had also suggested that the ACLU amend its complaint, as they had only asked for $1 in damages.
You know, in a way, I'm almost glad this happened. Teens around the country who are far more timid than Constance so rarely get a chance to see that you don't have to take it. They rarely get a chance to see that much of the country really does care (note the outpouring of public support, and not just from the LGBT crowd). And ignorant bigots rarely get dragged out into the light of day and called to account for themselves.
I have no fear for Constance - she's going to pwn everything she sets her mind to. She's not only brave - she carries herself with uncommon dignity and savvy far beyond her years.
You know what would be awesome? If a shit-ton of people from around the country showed up to her graduation and cheered for her and booed everyone else (minus the other 7 kids with Constance).
While I share your outrage, hold up a second:
1. No federal judge "signed off" on a private prom.
2. The school district appears not to have been directly involved in organizing this special no-Constance get together. That means that no gov't agency was involved, and therefore the courts have no jurisdiction.
3. However reprehensible it may be, private citizens have the right to organize a private party and exclude anyone they wish. That's what the parents and kids did. They have the right to freely associate - or not associate - with anyone they choose.
So yeah, it all sucks, but it's important not to misdirect our outrage.
"*Oops. Some of the people writing in opposition to that page are rather hateful, themselves."
I don't see how you can be hateful to a a bunch of bigoted pricks.
Clarification: It's not reprehensible that people have the right to organize private parties. It's reprehensible that the people of Fulton chose to organize this one in this way.
What I don't understand is why the Facebook group is still up if it's been taken over by pro-McMillen folks? Why hasn't the admin taken it down yet?
I suppose the reasonable reaction would be to introduce "fultonry" as a new noun in daily language, denoting mean-spirited bullying based on redneck bigotry or something like that. So 'this smacks of fultonry' to mean 'this is evil, bigoted bullying' etc. This would be an appropriate legacy to the world, I think. 'Fultonry' kinda sounds like it would mean something like that anyway.
I think there are enough readers of the comments here to make this possible.
I don't mean to go all John Kwok on you guys and brag about my high school, but I thought that such widespread bigoted cliqueyness was mostly a Hollywood myth. I mean, at my high school, the kids with Yes on Prop 8 stickers on their cars had their stickers ripped off and people parked so close to them they couldn't get the door open. Our parents may be bigoted sometimes, but I thought our generation was pretty damn liberal. I guess I just live in a nice little liberal bubble with only libertards brave enough to fight the prevailing liberal opinion.(of course, I don't condone violence or property damage against people with stupid, hateful, misinformed opinions.)
To any high school teachers -
Is the following "writing" skill-level typical of what kids graduate with, or is this (I hope) much worse? Here's what "Eula" had to say on the Facebook page PZ referred to:
The school hates trans students too (surprise surprise): http://www.bilerico.com/2010/03/trans_student_suspended_from_school_and…
Been writing about this one for awhile.
Drop the school superintendent a line (be civil, please!) and let her know.
I really hope that someone with deep pockets comes in and gives Constance a full scholarship to get her the hell out of there. I'm thinking that she might just be interested in a law degree.
Excuse my ignorance, but I thought that the American Humanist association was going to fund and run a non-discriminatory prom? what happened to that?
Well, we are talking about Mississippi aren't we? We're just surprised her fellow students didn't populate the Facebook page with death threats. We suppose that's progress, for a pig-ignorant xtian backwater shit hole, like Mississippi.
This is a very good idea.
I live in the northeast, and as much as I dislike going to the south, I'd go.
Who provides a few organizational details, so we cheer at the right time?
DeusExNihilim:
Read this and weep for your answer.
Wow.
I grew up in a small, rural town chock full of these sorts of people. I was mocked and made fun of and called a faggot just for wearing a pink tie to school one day. (They turned out to be right about that whole 'KillJoy is gay' thing, but they dont know that! The color of my tie was just perceived as queer.) So honestly I'm not really surprised. Its stupid shit like this that makes me more and more misanthropic every day.
Thankfully, there are a few that give me a little bit of hope. Most of you reading this can consider yourselves among that select group of people who don't perpetuate my misanthropy. ;)
KJ
@Josh #42 - The judge was in 'a bit of a pickle' as to ordering the school district to have a prom, which he really could not do, but he also received assurances from district officials that the prom organized by the parents would be open to all. If school district officials knew about this 'phantom prom', they could be held liable for intentionally causing emotional distress to Constance in the midst of violating her civil rights! (IANAL, so please do excuse any legal terminology issues)
Now, the question is whether they smart enough not to use their official email accounts while the planning was going on.
This blog has been very distressing this morning.
Freedonian, #57:
Interesting. I hadn't read enough to know there was any communication by the school about what the "parent-organized" prom would or wouldn't be like. Still pretty sure the court has no jurisdiction over private parties. But yes, wouldn't it be delightful to find school employees in on this.
#48,
I...I can't even understand that. No, really... I can't begin to piece out what it is they're trying to say. "Attiuince"? What is she trying to say? "Hugged up next to like at the movies"? You mean, lesbian sex as portrayed in the movies? Or people watching a movie while cuddled together? I don't understand!
If it is an open to the public graduation (which some of them aren't), I second the idea of showing up and booing every last one of the bigoted pricks.
Josh OSG @ 48:
Sweet Fanny Adams, that is a prime example of egregiousness. My moron-speak translator doesn't seem to working, what the hell is "attiuince"?
G.D.:
I approve of this innovation. It even works for Fulton, MO. You will never find a more wretch hive of scum and villainy.
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
What is this word supposed to be? Perhaps somehow it magically corrects all the other mistakes. I might even call that dissertation-quality, if only I could figure out this word.
You've obviously never been in Patterson, New Jersy.
@#55, josh
Christ on a bike, that DOES make me want to weep. The ACLU, Of ALL organisations, saying "We don't want money from YOUR KIND".
-1000 dignity points ACLU.
Ladeez and gentlemenz, I have no idea what attiuince is! I suspect it might be "audience," but I much prefer to think of it as some local folk term for a psychological illness, sort of Fulton, MS' version of running amok.
Jesus flapjack Christ I hate ignorance, and I hate illiteracy. And no, I can't bring myself to feel sorry for Eula's "lack of quality educational opportunities." You have to actively avoid any books at all, your entire life, to be that fucking dumb.
I do, and my internet history proves it!
Ha! Is it anything like Newark?
Ellen Degeneres stepped up with some funds.
It's getting harder & harder to keep my blood pressure down! I've probably said this before, but I say it every day - I'm so glad I homeschool my kids. I live in a backwater that hasn't gone this far yet, socially. Wouldn't surprise me if they did, but they haven't yet. But the quote from the evil children's FB page reminds me of most of the posts I read from my local public-schooled relatives. Bad grammar, bad spelling, and most of all - horrible, ignorant, mean ideas.
@josh #48 - Sadly, I must admit that I speak 'redneck' (my eyes are duly lowered in shame), I believe that "attiuince" should be translated as "audience", the rest of that lame post, you can probably figure out for yourself!
I'd guess that "attiuince" was meant to be "audience".
Well, you see, they read the King James Bible to the kids at Sunday School, so there's really no need for them to trouble their little heads reading the damned thing.
Damn it Freedonian and bad Jim, no! You may not ruin my lexicographical fantasy about "attiuince." It simply must be something more exotic.
The first time I saw his picture I hadn't read the story and thought: "Damn that girls cute, she's got a flat chest though"
Then I read it and thought: "Damn she's cute, if only she didn't have that penis anymore."
Seriously, he's more attractive than any of the 'natural' women at my old highschool *admittedly a low bar* and most of the bitches in the pictures on that facebook group.
There is now an "I SUPPORT CONSTANCE MCMILLEN" facebook group... someone announced and linked to it in the hate group.
Hey PZ, Maybe add this link up top in the OP?
Membership is sort of like an online poll... what say we pharyngulate?
http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-SUPPORT-CONSTANCE-MCMILLEN/111894495502…
@#5. 'Who's next?' You mean, whos left! It's us kid, atheists are still fair game for the religiots. And always will be, sorry. That's why you have to get in their fucking faces and stay there.
Caine @ 23 - I understand the principle and I certainly commend Constance for taking the fight to these cretins. I was simply saying that, having exposed this bigotry so it can both be mourned and ridiculed as it rightly should, I wouldn't expect her to want to attend any function with these people. As it turns out, #37 seems to suggest that that was her attitude. The sooner she gets the heck out of Dodge, the better.
HA HA ha, ha ha. Ha... oh, Traci, you have a lot to learn about the world.
Josh OSG:
Oh! Okay. That makes sense. Honestly though, I'd think attiuince would be more of a pain to spell than audience. Oy. With this level of brain activity and learning, Eula's not even going to qualify for a job at McD's.
OT but the same mentality as Upper Illiterium, Miss.
Those who would be shown compassion must show it to others.
Not defining themselves by their actions as worthless pieces of rat shit would be a good start, too.
attiuince - n., usu. cons. derogatory., chiefly ignunt.
etymology - the first recorded use of attiunce was found etched on the outer surface of a sanitary napkin receptacle in the restroom of Bertha's Gas-n-Go in Fulton, Mississippi, though scholars suspect the term had been in wide oral use prior to transcription.
1. A small group of post-pubescent young women who participate in sexual relations with one another.
E.g: Scissor me timbers - did y'all see that attiuince? Gina and them other girls was hugged up next to themselves like at the movies.
Some of that group sounds like the trolls from Encyclopedia Dramatica are up to their old tricks. "Mitchell Henderson" is a dead giveaway.
Still though, this is deplorable behavior. One would have hoped that kids going to prom would have stayed home in protest, or crashed the segregated prom. Shameful.
Here's Lewis Black (one of the funniest men on the planet!)explaining Southern education. He never mentions Itawamba Agricultural High School by name, but his references seem applicable.
link
It's hard to say how many people were told about the "secret" prom. It may be that the majority of the students were simply told that the prom was back on, but "nobody's going" (i.e. none of the 'popular' students).
On the other hand, I'm hoping they find the school staff and school raised money directly involved in this. This should not go unpunished.
Hey, if you joined the hate group to give Constance support or scold the haters... be sure to un-join after you make your post. Un-joining is a link on the lower left margin, small type: "remove me from fans".
Lulz Mississippi:
Global Well-being: Rank 50; score 61.2
State intelligence: Rank 50; score 94.2
Fundamentalist religiosity: Rank 1; score 138.8
Crime: Rank 13th; score 113.9
Education: Rank 50; score 65.3
Health: Rank 50; score 64.3
Income: Rank 50; score 64.8
Score has a mean of 100 and SD of 15 and is for all 50 U.S. states.
No surprises here...
The original Yahoo News thread on this story is still going strong.
And predictably, there are still ignorant Yahoos braying about how "she brought this on herself" and "normal kids shouldn't have to be exposed to these deviant sickos."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_lesbian_prom_date#mwpphu-container
America should've let the Confederacy leave.
Bill @ 77:
No argument there. I'd like to see her and her family get out.
I'm sure if you looked at any measure of social dysfunction, Mississippi is either at the top or close to it. You name a social problem, they have it.
A lot of those Fulton kids will end up either pregnant or getting someone pregnant sooner rather than later. And then live out their tiny lives in a nowhere dump of a town in a nowhere state.
Josh, Official SpokesGay @ 82:
:D :D :D You have so got my vote for April's Molly.
Which poses such a dilemma for me. As a leftie-liberal compassionate kind of guy (yes, really) who also grew up in poverty (but not ignorance and indignity, I hasten to add), I vacillate between anger at the social and economic conditions that permit this, and contempt for people who proudly wallow in it. My mother always told us, "we're poor, but we don't have to be white trash," before packing us off to school and sending us to the library when we needed answers about the wider world.
So, I'm conflicted. At once sympathetic, and yet disgusted. Am I the only one?
And when it comes time to plan their 20 year high school reunion, they'll make jokes about how they'll tell Constance it's in the next town over and think it's hilarious.
She got money for college and an internship for the summer. Good for her for standing up for herself.
http://www.tonic.com/article/tonic-ellen-degeneres-getting-results-cons…
Josh:
No. I do think there's a difference though, between being stuck in a bad economic situation and still doing your best with what you have, including your brain (you can do a whole lot of learning outside of school) and taking pride in being ignorant, bigoted and blindly religious.
You'll have to count me out. As you mother said, poverty does not have to lead to bigotry, and those kids on Facebook don't even have the excuse of isolation from the larger world.
Josh, my consolation is in the connectedness of the world. 30, even 20 years ago those kids would have absolutely seen nothing other than reinforcement for their attitudes and behaviors (which may explain their parents). Now, when they put all of that on display, they see that they get a heapin' helping of disdain and shock along with the pats on their backs. Hopefully that will stun a few of them into thinking about it. Maybe not all, but at least some of them might rethink their position on people who aren't just like them when they see that the peer pressure and values of the world at large isn't the same as what's in their own town.
Meanwhile, in Rome, Herr Ratzinger and his minions are getting more and more paranoid:
http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2010/04/pope-benedict-goes-paranoid-…
Naked Bunny and Caine:
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, sorry. I'm so not sympathetic to those hateful little bastards tormenting Constance. But when I look at backwards, uneducated, poverty-ridden places like MS, I do understand there are larger forces at work making it hard to climb out. Having grown up in a single mom welfare household, I know them firsthand. Hence my sympathy.
But yeah, I also know about making the best of a bad circumstance, taking opportunities when they present themselves, and conducting one's self as if one's intellect and education were worth fighting for. Knowing from experience that you can claw your way out of an ignorant holler, and that you don't have to stay parochial, fearful and stupid is what provokes the disgust. It enrages me to see people positively roll around in their own cultural and educational debasement and be publicly proud of it.
There are some kinds of social climbing that you ought to strive for. Chief among them is expanding your circumscribed little world beyond the provincial politics and customs of some backwater gulch. People who don't want to do that, who want to cling to the backwater. . .I admit, I do look down on them.
For anyone who is interested the I Support Constance McMillen site is here: http://tinyurl.com/ycwymf4
"...what fools these mortals be!"
Puck, MND, III, ii.
Josh:
I'm not conflicted. I grew up poor, in a rural area, surrounded by ignorant bigoted fucks like these or perhaps even worse. I only sympathize with them the same way I sympathize with any other person. Being poor and ignorant may be one of the potential causes, but it's not an excuse for hatred.
I'm still poor, which is fine. I do wish I could afford to donate to educational causes, such as smacking some sense into these evil bigots who treat gays and kids with learning disabilities like they're fucking lepers.
=====
I'm also quite disturbed, but not terribly surprised, by the ACLU's handling of the offer from the AHA.
So, I'm conflicted. At once sympathetic, and yet disgusted. Am I the only one?
Nah. This is my alma matta and my hometown, so I feel you. This is a town terribly afraid of change or difference, and has long used "going to church" as a cover to be complete douchebags. Couple years ago, there was a major scandal concerning some of the "better families" being involved in what basically boils down to wife-swapping. In my graduating class of 150, nearly 30 students were either parents or would be parents shortly after graduation. Sex education consisted of, once a year, a lady from the state health department coming to the auditorium and telling all of us not to have sex. When I was a freshman, the senior class cheerleaders, all from the "best families" were photographed drunk and topless. I know of at least a dozen otherwise "pro-life" girls who took trips out-of-state to get an abortion. I know of at least a dozen others who were raped and nothing was done to punish the rapist. When I graduated, fully half my peers' parents got divorced, and more than a few because of long-running infidelity.
It's Babbitt with water skiing and deer hunting, basically. They can't figure out why I don't move back and prefer to live in "weirdo" places like New Orleans.
As long as it has connotations of "fucking cowardly", I am entirely on board with it.
Josh:
So do I. Your post reminded me of this bit from Thief of Time, by Terry Pratchett:
- Gytha Ogg
Ellen DeGeneres just gave her a $30,000 scholarship, according to HuffPo.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/19/ellen-gives-30000-to-cons_n_50…
Josh, you're not the only one. These assholes weren't born assholes, their surroundings made them so, and it sucks to waste people that way.
Attiuince is seriously unsniny, if you know what I mean.
After seeing in comments here that DeGeneres gave her a scholarship and thinking hoorah for her, I googled the Degeneres website and the episode on which Constance was a guest and looked at the comments so far; almost 500, and the level of ignorance and stupidity of the sampling I looked at was heart-sinking.
http://ellen.warnerbros.com/2010/03/constance_mcmillen_talks_about_her_…
From Cyan's link in #109:
Well, the first four comments did it for me, I don't need to read on, these people depress me, to say the least:
The really weird thing is that there are pictures of the secret prom circulating online, and there's at least one picture of two girls "dancing". (Read: grinding)
So female homoeroticism is fine, as long as it's straight girls showing off for dudes. Yaaaaaaaay.
I was mocked, made fun, beat up, and called a "faggot" because I had long hair, and liked unmanly things, like reading and math.
Glad to hear you made it out of whatever rotten place you went to school at.
I asked my friend whose a HS english teacher...she translated
attiuince=Audience
Really...say it out loud in a hick accent.
Ing, that was figured out some time ago upthread. ;)
I will try to be as polite and respectful to the people who organized that secret prom as the situation warrants.
Boy, you sure snookered her; don't you feel proud of yourselves! All the graduation ceremony speechifying about values and traditions and honor and respect and all that crap was just exercise for your jaw muscles, which are apparently so big now they press in on your skulls and restrict the size of your brains. Way to go, you dumbass lying bigoted redneck hick crackers: you've created another revolutionary!
Hey now, at least Jiffy Lube performs a valuable function in society.
Slave owners talked about how blacks were ugly savages no decent white man would ever lay with and then went home and raped their slaves.
Obviously a more extreme example but historically bigots see nothing wrong with using the very thing they rant against to get a boner. I'll guarantee every straight male involved in the 'fight to protect marriage' has some lesbian porn on his computer. A great example is Michael Steel, er, a random GOP staff member in no way connected to anyone of power or influence in the Republican party, spending oodles of cash at a club where chicks hump each other for your amusement.
I wonder what percentage of kids that went to the "real prom" ta escape the geays will end up having bastard children nine months form now? Of course they could all really be nice Christion boys and girls.
Yeah, getting attention is her raisin date!
Damn lesbians, wanting to have prom like everyone else....
:D :D :D You have so got my vote for April's Molly.
I agree. Go Josh!
(Caine for May? :D)
Also note that "Mitchell Henderson" is just a troll from 4chan/Dramatica. Doesn't excuse anything though. The "lulz" is a dead giveaway along with the name/message.
My high school was a fine place. The real trouble kids ended up being arrested/expelled so I got to meet some very interesting people.
Though I suppose living in Canada helps that.
I can't believe this... Constance should sue that school for all its worth. Unbelievable that shit like this still goes on today. What a waste of humanity that whole town is.
Damn lesbians, wanting to have prom like everyone else....
I am constantly amazed how people are able to pretend that if their school had refused to let them come to the prom they wouldn't have done the exact same things. Of course admitting that would also mean admitting that they have completely different standards for straight and gay people.
I did a quick poll around my entirely male office with this question and the best response was. "Is this a trick question?".
In all seriousness though, this is terrible. The girl has the courage to break step with everyone else and this is how she is treated?
Hitchens gave an awesome speech where he made the point that you should not take refuge in the false security of consensus. I don't always agree with him but he's damn right in this case.
Shala, yeah, passed right by the lulz comment. Eula's comment (quoted in #48) however, not so much. A lot of toxicity there, and in the comments from Cyan's link (some quoted in #110), which were made by adults, ffs.
What came through loud and strong, in Eula's comment and those of the adults, is how proud they are of being hateful bigots. That's hard to take, it's contemptible.
Ug, this disgusts me so much. I'd say Canada is better, but I've seen a similar case (not as publicized) when I graduated from high school.
Jesus. This post and the Evil thread combined have redoubled my interest in spending my time among plants. At least tomorrow is Botany Wednesday...a new reason to love Wednesday.
Oh yes, definitely. I have to say, the actions taken in regards to the prom surprise me. I never thought a school could sink that low.
Are my hopes in humanity still too high?
What you can't pray if you get your arms blown off? Sorry, but that was the image that ran through my head when I read this verbal kanipshin. (no offence to amputees)
Shala:
Oh, I sincerely hope not. When I look at situations like this, and the people involved, the one thing it keeps me resolved in is to continue speaking out about religion and the effect it has on people. I do have hope that one day, 'Merica might wake up to the reasonable side.
I WONDER OF ELLEN WOULD GIVE A 30,000 SCHOLARSHIP TO A CHRISTIAN THAT WAS TOLD THEY COULD NOT PRAY AT SCHOOL????????????????????
It's funny because I can imagine plenty of creationist universities doing exactly that.
I'll have to consider starting to watch Ellen! She sounds fabulous. Who knew Christian persecution complexes ran that deep?
As a native Mississippian, I have long held that if just one generation of the smartest and most energetic of us would stay put, we could turn the state around into one of the most happenin' and creative places in the world. The list of expatriate Mississippi talent is amazing.
Most of my peers there agreed - but the very few who didn't develop a strong case of itchy foot (the kind that needs to rub a lot of road) all understand why the rest of us did.
G'night from Gainesville, Florida. Constance, you'd be more than welcome here.
So, I was at my piano lesson today with my teacher, this fabulous old lady in her late 80s. She clips newspaper and mag. articles for me whenever she sees the names "Richard Dawkins," "Steven Pinker," or "Oliver Sacks." We trade books.
I'm getting ready to demonstrate for her (on her nested Steinways. . .talk about intimidation) how badly I sight read, and how little I've practiced over the past two weeks, and she starts in as she brings her walker 'round. You must hear her voice in your head - she's a brash Jewish lady from New Jersey:
Sylvia (my teacher): So, can you believe this town in Mississippi?
Spokesgay: Yeah, I heard about that. Bastards.
Sylvia (flicking her wrist, rolling eyes): So, you told me you were gay. What do I care? Right? You don't believe in God? Neither (fist pounding on piano with each syllable) do I. These people. .well, you know.
SpokesGay: Yep, I sure do.
Sylvia: How-in-the-world (more fist emphasis) can they stand there and say those things? Oy.
SpokesGay: You're tellin' me. I have to give a talk this weekend in the South. I hate going down below the Mason-Dixon Line (apologies to my dear Southern brethren and sistren, it's not you, it's the idiots that surround you).
Sylvia: Don't talk to me about that. I'm biased. I caaaan't stand it (/Bette Davis waving hands, scrunching up mouth). Come on, E major, hands together. Do that - and try contrary motion - while I get my coffee.
My small town in Missouri just voted down a county library bond, leaving us with just the one small library in the county seat. There were people out campaigning actively against libraries.
And everything else that I voted for lost, too.
This place is fucked up, but not so bad as Fulton, Mississippi. So there's that, thank you.
So technically, all the asshole kids did not go to their school's senior prom, then. It wasn't the school they cared about, it was hangin' and bangin' with each other.
Menyambal, damn, that's depressing news. I'm sorry.
Can't let it rest without one final observation.
Constance wasn't told about it, which is the amazing thing: all the kids who showed up at the alternate prom knew about it and kept it secret. That's impressive.
Kinda like the way the Hutus managed to take the rest of Rwanda by surprise when they pulled that nationwide machete massacre back in the '90s.
@Pierce #131 – Some of us are still here in MS and trying, I wish some of the enlightened ex-pats would move back! Man, we need the help!
That chills me. How utterly, awfully depressing.
And yes, that Mitchell Henderson comment is a fake, probably put in by Encyclopedia Dramatica as it sounds like their Mitchell Henderson page which says the kid suicided over losing an iPod.
Which is not to say the whole Facebook page is fake or anything.
Well, either that, or all you enlightened folk move to a friendlier environment (New England isn't always cheap, but it's low on ignunt bigots). Wanna flip for it? Actually, no. I'll never willingly live in the South again (sorry - not until there's a wholesale change of culture).
Suicide is not a verb.
Oh, I sincerely hope not. When I look at situations like this, and the people involved, the one thing it keeps me resolved in is to continue speaking out about religion and the effect it has on people. I do have hope that one day, 'Merica might wake up to the reasonable side.
Yes, I hope they will. It's so frustrating that something like this could happen in 2010.
Maybe in the future historians will look back at things like this and be horrified that people could have used to act this way.
*facepalm*
back on topic:
You know, I was the only girl at my graduation wearing "the men's dresscode". I only got one nasty look. And one girl who was pissed at me for not wearing a dress.
I'm glad I didn't have to deal with this shit...
The trouble is finding a single person who's been stopped by their school from praying. Of course I'm sure they've found plenty of cases, they'll just conveniently forget to mention that the prayer they stopped was being screamed in the face of a gay kid trying to do their work.
*facepalm*
Don't you realize? Libraries are liberally biased! They will turn your children into young communist socialist bisexuals!
That's simply inexcusable. Heads should roll...and won't.
Some days I hate humanity.
The trouble is finding a single person who's been stopped by their school from praying. Of course I'm sure they've found plenty of cases, they'll just conveniently forget to mention that the prayer they stopped was being screamed in the face of a gay kid trying to do their work.
Which also begs the question of why that person thinks being gay would disrupt a classroom at all. It's not like I'm openly flirting with people (much, oh ho ho) in my classrooms during school hours after all!
But suicided is an intransitive verb.
Sorry, I tend to write an odd combination of Ozarkian and somewhat-archaic English (which are actually more closely related than you might think) and just general confusion. Which is why this town needs a library.
Thank you.
@Josh #139 - I had to move back because of circumstances beyond my control, but I am in Jackson and there is reason for hope in pockets of Southern Mississippi! Oh yeah! That and it is cheap! Much of it is challenging those attitudes that have never been challenged before.
Shala:
It is frustrating. There are so many god-soaked fucking idiots here (U.S.) sometimes I think we specialize in them. Then again, you have shiny people like Josh's piano teacher Sylvia. Therein lies hope.
Josh, tell Sylvia she put a smile on my face. :D
@Menyambal:
According to whom? Even if it is, it's incredibly awkward and ugly , and very non-standard, English usage. :) If you don't like that, take it up with the descriptivists - they'll defend anything .
@Caine:
I'll tell Sylvia, Caine. She really does rock.
Verbing enweirdens the English language.
Fuckheads.
Then again, you have shiny people like Josh's piano teacher Sylvia. Therein lies hope.
Well I'll B Flat, thanks for tuning up my day! :D
But remember IAHS sits in the middle of the Bible belt inhabited by True ChristiansTM. /s
That being said, my high school prom (about 5 yrs ago) wasn't like that; but, then again I live in California.
Ah, Mississippi. The oozing canker on the ass of America. I lived there for a while in Biloxi--aka Moscow of the South (it's that liberal compared to the rest of the state), and at first it didn't seem like such a bad place. Well, most of the time.
I'd heard stories all my life about how bad MS was (a state TX can look down on with reason!), so I was looking for lynch mobs to come around the corner anytime a black man and white woman walked down the street or through the mall holding hands or arms around each other. But it didn't. Maybe having the AF there helped that situation. Not sure.
Just when I'd think, hey, this place is nothing like I heard, maybe I'll retire here, I'd head to the mall, and who's passing out propaganda but those old bigots in dresses, the KKK. Broad daylight. Late 80s. They didn't do that often, that I knew of, but it was enough to remind me that the entire state was toxic, top to bottom.
Not for all the Kasugai candy in the world would I live there. Not even if you threw out all the green tea flavored ones.
Not no, but hell no.
Judging by the pictures on facebook that prom ended up being quite a "special garden" party.
I like how they took time off from insulting gay people to insult the disabled. I think my country needs to wipe its ass. It's getting a tad stanky.
More poetry from the heartland of America.
suicided means "to murder but make it look like a suicide".
See also "disappeared" as a verb.
The political agitator was disappeared.
of course they're ugly constructions; they're ugly constructions describing very ugly things.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suicided
suicided
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): sui·cid·ed; sui·cid·ing
Date: 1841
intransitive verb : to commit suicide
transitive verb : to put (oneself) to death
Honest to God, I don't know what any of that means. I never learned proper grammar in school. I picked up what I know from reading a LOT. I dimly recall that "suicided" was in a science-fiction book, probably as a bad example of hillbilly speech.
Yeah, it's ugly, but so is Encyclopedia Dramatica. Go there at your own peril.
I shall now go put a period to my existence. ;)
Great. This could take off and become a whole nation-wide reality prank show, "You Just Got Teabagged". Not looking forward to it. Next episode: Jimmy is an atheist, but he won't look so smart when our fake proctor, Father Jeffrey, swaps out his answer sheet! ooh, You Just Got Teabagged! Pranking suckers for the glory of God and Country. And don't miss the following week, when Father Jeffrey impersonates a pharmacist! Hilarity will ensue.
Maybe they can get Dane Cook to host the show.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=367776042862&topic=14501
Constance is apparently too nice for her own good.
I am so appalled at the behaviour of the Mississippi ACLU regarding atheists, who they seem to prefer would not exist.
Mississipi. Where even the ACLU is bigoted.
Not that such is particularly a bad thing. Those are just far kinder sentiments than I could ever bring myself to express if I were in her situation.
It'd be more like "MURDER KILL DEATH MURDER DOOM MURDER. FUCK THESE DICKBAGS" from me. >.>
Fuck Mississippi, fuck the south and fuck all you teabagging shitheads. The only thing any of you dipshits ever got right was when you tried to secede. Lincoln should have let you go you dumb, shit eating Christian fascist pigs. Today you would be nothing but a Christian version of Somalia.
Gotta love the irony....
Something you might want to get in on...
Same story here. Though we're not rural, my school's student body was highly conservative. When we had a boy vs. girl pep rally, I decided to wear pink while my female friend wore blue to make a statement about gender roles. I knew the other students were calling me a faggot behind my back (they wouldn't do it in front of my face because I was a jock at the time). And like you, they turned out to be right (though it would be a while until I admitted it myself.)
I hope Constance choose to go to an out-of-state university and tell others about the bigotry of that little town.
It's good to see people like Ellen and everyone here supporting Constance. I pity her school mates, for their sad restrictive views of life. But it is the adults (teachers and parents) who would have conspired with these kids to run a separate ball that I reserve most of my anger for.
High school can be painful for gay/lesbian teens (or for anyone perceived to be different)but there is a small consolation that it does make you a stronger person when you survive this sort of bigotry. What makes me sad and angry is not everyone survives it.
What really offends me is that the kids with learning disabilities were let out of the "real" prom. The Constance issue is a predictable result of a drawn-out saga involving kids who can be bitchy across the planet. But to endorse making outcasts of the disabled kids is disturbing, sick, and a really poor reflection on the community.
At least in fundamental minds the bible says "don't be gay, gay is evil" but I seriously can't find the bit where Jesus said "ostracise the disabled, they are the devil's spawn."
I'm already waiting for the musical-comedy that will be based on this. Better than reasoning with such people (they don't understand how to do it), even better than playing Jiminy Cricket to their redneck Pinocchios is developing a hit Broadway musical that shows them - and the world - not how shameful but how absurd they are, with songs and dancing.
Some of these kids will one day have to leave their little evil-Mayberry shithole. That'll be at least some payback.
"That's the way we are: we're pigs."
Not only a bunch of bigoted assholes, but from that sample, semi-literate too.
So was the KKK
MattyB #171,
as a homosexual I'm deeply offended by your comment.
So segregating against kids with dissabilities is really offensive to you, but segregating against LGBT people is just "predictable".
Fuck off asshole.
"Suicide is not a verb."
Don't be silly. There are no rules in American grammar. If you can't remember the correct formulation, just make one up.
How else do you think the word 'burglarized' came into existence?
This is really heartbreaking.
I recall from high school that teenagers can be vicious to anyone who is different or doesn't fit in. But what sets this apart is that the parents, motivated by fundamentalist religion and small-mindedness, are encouraging and supporting bigotry and cruelty. And what really gets me is that it wasn't enough to deliberately exclude the gay couple: they also had to be gratuitously cruel to learning-disabled kids into the bargain - and, again, the parents and the school authorities seem to have thought this was OK. It's sad that a whole community could be so morally bankrupt.
These people are not even good followers of their own religion. According to their own sacred texts, Jesus chose to hang around with lepers, prostitutes, the poor, ethnic minorities (the Samaritans) and other socially excluded people. The people of Fulton, Mississippi remind me more of the Pharisees. Of course, we don't know for sure how much of the Gospels are myth, or whether any person resembling the Biblical Jesus ever existed; but if he did, and if he were able to see what the people of Fulton are doing in his name, I suspect he would be rather embarrassed and pissed off.
The best example of this is President Warren Harding. In his 1920 election campaign, he evidently couldn't remember that the perfectly serviceable word "normality" already existed, and so he fought the election on a platform of "A Return to Normalcy". He won the election, and served one term that went down in history as one of the most disastrous ever: but he succeeded in contributing the word "normalcy" to American English.
Walton wrote:
That's largely because, from what I can tell, most of them don't have a clue of what their religion is even about. Considering that there's no knowledge requirement for Christianity - they don't have to study or learn anything to be 'let in' - it really does boil down to a religion based entirely on choosing to answer 'yes' to the question 'are you a Christian?'
With that in mind I can't I'm all that surprised that they have no idea they're doing the very opposite of what their supposed spiritual leader told them to do.
Well, I think the homophobia is equally disturbing and sick. The fact that cruelty to LGBT people may be more widespread doesn't make it any less abhorrent. All forms of bigotry and pointless cruelty, whether it's against gay people or disabled people, are equally morally contemptible.
And you're right that kids are vicious to each other everywhere: but what sets Fulton apart is that the parents and the whole community were also supporting the discrimination and cruelty.
Another skeevy town: Bjästa
a 14-year-old girl from a small Swedish community was raped at her school only to be rejected by her friends and adult society when she reported the attack. ... The momentum of the campaign of rumours built up with a poster campaign in school and a Facebook group launched supporting 'Oskar' as the community increasingly turned its back on the 14-year-old girl.
when the end of the school term arrived, three months later, 'Oskar' was allowed to attend an awards ceremony in the local church service with the consent of the pastor [...] Later that day, 'Oskar' joined up with the his schoolmates to celebrate the end of term at a nearby beach. During the evening the boy raped a further 17-year-old girl
The pastor's response to hearing about the second case? "That poor boy! ... and the girl too, of course"
I lived in this area for a while. At that time, (about 10 years ago), it was not unheard of for schools to have segregated proms, with black and white prom kings and queens. It would not suprise me in the slightest if it still went on.
BTW, not everyone who lives down there is a dick head, but congrats to these parents and students for working so hard to keep the stereotype of Mississippians as dumb ass hicks in place.
(Y'all are so put upon by the outside world, /s)
negentropyeater in #175 you are correct and I should have said "what really astounds me" not "offends me". I did not mean to condone homophobia in the slightest so thanks for taking the time to pick me up on that.
And just to try and express what I meant I bit better, I'd imagine that there are many fundamental Christians across the USA who think that school proms should not allow same-sex couples, and that it is a violation of god's laws (a position that I think is absurd, and "unchristian" - even as an atheist). I had no idea that there were "Christians" who would advocate not having school children with disabilities at proms.
Again I genuinely am sorry and embarrassed to have come across as a bigoted homophobe!
Message to Constance Mc Millen :
Thay're all stupid. You're great. Let love rule. You have friends.
MattyB,
apologies accepted.
#176:
How do you think it came into existence? How do you think the word "burgled" came about? What are their relative ages, and which is more unusual for English in terms of how it was derived?
Or maybe they didn't care so much about keeping them out of the prom, but they had to send someone to the fake prom along with Constance, and they saw these kids as 'expendable'?
In my view, that's even worse.
@189: Agreed.
I'mma ramble here a bit. Just fair warning. Just tying some shit together.
One of the things I find interesting about this is the sense of false equivalence that gets produced in the heads of the bigots. Even my use of that word would have them going crazy, as it so often does, about me "calling names" or "persecuting them because of their religious belief." But what have I done, other than call them bigots? (Admittedly, as PZ notes, a lot of the commenters on the "Constance Stop Yer Cryin" FB page were themselves pretty hateful and over the top, but that's secondary here.) Yet, as they are being called bigots, they are actively taking steps to harm gay folks, and others they dislike, or at least don't care about. And that's where they set up an equivalency.
Calling them bigots is exactly equivalent to excluding people from the routine practices of daily life, from the traditions and rituals that people use to enact their shared membership in society. This goes for proms, and for job protections. These are people actively seeking to materially harm LGBT folks, and who have the nerve to claim being called a bigot is more harmful.
And, lest we think that ignorance and hate are confined to the working class, it is the town's professionals who organized this stuff. These weren't folks in trailers with no teeth that folks so want them to be. Think about the school administration--college educated professionals. Think about the money that went into renting the country club and renting all those tuxes and buying dresses, etc. Probably from pretty much middle-class parents. They may have received a deal from the owners of the club for "taking a stand" (Seems sort of likely, seeing how things have been going.) The support is coming from all class locations.
It's tied to the rot of "Treason in Defense of Slavery Month" declared by the Virginia Gov yesterday. It's a long festering sense of persecution combined with an intense feeling of moral superiority and an emphasis on a sadistic deity and punishment that leads to a very cruel religious/political culture.
What would be really nice would be that in five hundred years' time, everybody in Fulton claims to be descended from the outcasts and nobody will admit that any ancestor of theirs attended the other one.
#191:
Thanks for that. Coming from a non-bigoted working class family myself, it bothers me that so many people seem to think that bigotry and class are inextricably linked.
Speaking of professionals, any of the teachers who supported this travesty are a disgrace to their profession. Teachers are supposed to know better than their charges. If they don't, then what the hell are they for?
Well, it's pretty clear what Mississippian Christianity is all about: the perceived right to treat "others" like shit.
At least they are consistent.
I come from the next state west, which is pretty much equally bigoted and backward, but I'm having a hard time remembering why anyone would care all that much about a same-sex date to a prom. Can't kids just go with friends or on their own, anyway? (Apparently not)
I like to think if there were a real Jesus, he would have gone to the prom with the outcasts, to be DJ or something.
It's a long festering sense of persecution combined with an intense feeling of moral superiority and an emphasis on a sadistic deity and punishment that leads to a very cruel religious/political culture.
I think it would be because they are sniveling, whining cowards who can't do anything without a mob or anonymous acting to back them up.
Creotards act pretty similar in that vein. Morally, shamelessly bankrupt.
@Josh, the Spokesgay>
I do teach HS, and that writing it typical to slightly better than what the majority of my students offer, much to my chagrin. I do teach largely lower level courses, so the few that don't write like that are either a) the ones who were too lazy to sign up for something challenging, b) the ones who have been lied to about their intelligence because of some characteristic or other (our lovely "integrated district" tends to fill low level classes with people of darker pigmentation, whilst those with less melanin, regardless of ability, are shifted to honours whatever-is-offered), or c) the 15% or so of my students for whom English is not a native language, and who almost to an individual work three times as hard as the rest of my students (the sentence structure may be simple, but they don't typically make the egregious errors of your quote.)
It's also worth pointing out that students who write that horribly in an online forum are capable of writing decently in an academic setting. Based on the false possessives and other absurdities in that quote, I wouldn't count the author as one of those.
They don't even realise that they are causing harm. It takes a very special kind of person to continue causing harm knowingly. It only takes dogma to escape from one's responsibility.
I e-mailed the following to the superintendent:
This Facebook nonsense would never have happened at prestigious Stuyvesant High School.
Ahem. I'm trying to figure out how the stench wafts its way past the Great Pacific Coast-Canadian Blockade of Rationality. Hateful Baptists remain loud (and thus influential) but are nowhere near the majority as you approach Russia from the western shores of North America. Your confusion of the Republican Party with the Bible Belt really shows how low the Republican Party has stooped.
Reading the recent comment from some idiot thug named "Eric Harris" where he makes a weak analogy, just makes me wonder if he hasn't tried substituting anything else for his slack-jawed idiotic drivel. If anything, I think the parents of any developmentally disabled children sympathized, having had their children tormented already. Given the level of bullying (and Eric's apparent obsession with serial killers, being an ass towards women, and Columbine (check out his groups for goodness sake!)) I'm not terribly surprised that any other children were terrified of appearing to support Constance. Apparently, only those fully in the same boat supported her.
It really does make me sick that jackasses like these people in Fulton, Mississippi exist. But then, that's why places like this end up cultural backwaters: petty two-bit sadistic high-school dictators end up running the town like a good-ol'-boys network. They have their fiefdom, why would they care about the rest of the world?
Short step to a cult, if you ask me.
@aratina cage:
The stench floats on the water.
They don't even realise that they are causing harm. It takes a very special kind of person to continue causing harm knowingly. It only takes dogma to escape from one's responsibility.
No, they do know they're causing harm. They want to cause harm because that will "discourage" other folks from "turnin'." This is very much about punishment. Queers deserve to be punished, to be harmed, for existing. Gawd sed so.
What Josh said. I'm all for shaming these folks, but don't kid yourselves that it will do any good.
Kevin,
I always thought that putrid yellow sea foam was all that was left of dead little mermaids. How sad that it turns out to be Bible Belt bile.
@aratina cage:
The more you know.
This is all part of the Homosexual agenda.
Let me explain.
First they (the gays) try to go to school sponsored events like the prom, which of course forces the good folk to cancel the prom to shield the children from such morally bankrupt lifestyles and degenerates. I mean who wants to see a woman in a tuxedo dancing with another woman? Think of the damage that could do to a person.
Then to be fair to the good normal kids, the schools and parents are forced to create a secret prom to allow the good normal kids to have their prom. But because those homosexuals demand to be treated equally the parents and school create a separate but "equal" (*snicker) prom so that the gays can flaunt their deviant desire to love who they love.
Oh and since the homos made the school and parents have to go through all this trouble, we'll send the retards and cripples there to enjoy the prom with them.
Now that the not-normal kids (homos and cripples) forced the good god fearing folk to do this the National Media of course took notice and is trying to paint the town as a bastion of bigotry, ignorance and outright evil.
Conclusion, the Gays got what they wanted. It was always about persecuting the good Christian god fearing people of the town.
Before we go tarring all the other students with the bigotry brush, remember what it's like to be a teenager. For a significant proportion, "fitting in" and being "popular" carry enormous weight. Sure, some of us mouthy bastards might have stood up to this kind of bigotry at the age of 18, but even the most socially confident teenagers will go with the crowd in ostracising someone rather than becoming the object of ostracism themselves by taking a stand. If you're one of the people who is likely to stay in the same community after graduating, you'll be even less keen to stick your head above the parapet.
Should those kids who don't like what's happened be standing up to their peers? Yes. Can we really blame them for not doing so out of fear for their own social standing? I don't think so. We certainly can't justify planning to disrupt their graduations because they wouldn't speak up.
The parents are another matter entirely. Any who were complicit, either actively or through inaction, deserve all the opprobrium they're getting.
I can practically guarantee that in years to come there will be those among the attendees at the "private" prom who will regret remaining silent, and I suspect some might even try to contact Constance to apologise. If the impression I get from her public statements throughout this affair is correct, I think she'll accept those apologies.
really?
> IAHS is not a bigoted school. This whole town is based on Christianity.
In theory, not contradictory. In practice ...
Hey, maybe we could come up with a new licenc plate slogan for Missisippi. There's the old standard about having 4 "eyes" but never seeing, but that's better verbally.
How about:
Missisippi: Our hate is all we got!
Missisippi: Making Texas look good by comparison!
Missisippi: The sphincter on the asshole of the universe!
Missisippi: Where the frogs score higher than the students!
Missisippi: Where hate is normal.
And one for the few liberals there who ever travel outside the state:
Missisippi: Yeah, we already know it's a shithole.
What's funny about this is that, if you look at the internet pictures from the private prom, there ARE two girls dancing closely together.
But God is OK with that because they're straight girls doing it to get the guys excited.
Sorry Marcus, I don't agree. Teenagers need to learn that cowardice has consequences. Research shows that although teenagers exercise judgment more slowly than adults, they can make the right decisions if given time to contemplate. If they are deciding to condone bigotry now, they are simply making it harder to be courageous in the future. And their future is not one that will be kind to cowards.
I think it's possible to feel both at the same time, and they don't have to conflict. As you said, your mother managed to not wallow in it and to encourage you to get educated.
#209:
And some of those guys in white hoods just go along to get along. We really shouldn't be mean to them, should we? Wouldn't want to hurt their delicate feelings, after all.
If you act like a bigot, you should get treated as one. If the graduation ceremony is disrupted (is that even possible? Are those things open to the public?), then just maybe some students who were secretly ashamed of the injustice will find the courage to stand up.
Here's the thing, though - that's an excuse that makes some sense when one is caught up in the momentum of something. That's what happens when you're 17 and stuck in the "oh shit" moment with all eyes on you, and cave in to the pressure. This has been going on for weeks. All media coverage has been negative towards those students. They're all over Facebook and Twitter - they have to know. Any student with an inkling of sympathy/humanity would know by this week that the rest of the fucking world would have their back if they stood with her. That peer pressure excuse doesn't hold as firmly here.
Of course she will. But I wouldn't blame her a bit if she doesn't.
David Marjanović,
I'm originally from Missouri. It's marginally better about that kind of stuff. I think. Though I don't recall anybody being openly homosexual during my time in high school there.
Remember when we were kids, and our parents and most of our teachers told us it was wrong to make fun of other people just for being different?
Some people were actually taught the opposite lesson.
Below is pure speculation on my part.
My take on this thing is very different, and my attitude toward McMillan is less sympathetic.
First: She violated kid-rule number one when dealing with authority. If you think the answer might be 'no' do not ask. She could have gotten into the prom with her girlfriend by stealth.
Second: She KNEW she was in biblePenis Fatherland, and was well aware the reaction would be redneck-go-crazy.
Third: She was able to elevate this to national attention through skillful manipulation of social networking and self-taught media savvy.
Fourth: Her instincts for maintaining the high ground put both media and political hacks to shame.
Fifth: She totally DESTROYED the knuckle-dragging Inquisitors who have doubtless been persecuting her for years. They fell into the initial trap, then just made it worse BY ACTING MOAR STUPIDER as the thing began to snowball.
Sixth: as an unintentional consequence she now has a scholarship and a one-way ticket out of biblePenis Fatherland County.
This is not a person to be pitied, this is someone from whom we have not heard the last. She's a born agitator who knows how to throw the first punch, then rope a dope the opposition. This young lady is amazing, and the courage it took to take the first shot, and then improvise devastating social judo to end game is a humbling lesson in how not to be the victim.
I want to be just like her when I grow up.
The following statement is true. The previous statement is false.
Head 'splode!
In fairness, I wonder how many had no particular problem with Constance, but weren't willing to sacrifice their senior prom in solidarity, i.e. they went to the Special Bigotry Prom because that's where all their classmates were going. Not that that makes everything hunky-dory, but for many students it might not have been bigotry per se -- maybe just cowardice ;)
My god this is horrifying. That parents would do this, that so many kids would do it. I'm sure there are some who went to this alternative prom and kept quiet about it out of peer pressure and not because they actually believed in this, but I hope their guilt eats them alive. I hope all these kids feel truly awful about this when they grow up. I mean truly awful. I'm not sure if it's a stunning example of the power of ignorant homophobia and bigotry or of the power of groups to manipulate through peer pressure. It's practically a psychological experiment. How stunning that something like this was done, but also that so many people could be kept quiet about it. I'm so horrified. So shocked. So incredulous. Can such a thing truly have happened in this country in this century?
These are people actively seeking to materially harm LGBT folks, and who have the nerve to claim being called a bigot is more harmful.
Once again, I must ask: Are these people raised by wolves?
Who managed to get to 17 years old without having, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me?" drilled into their heads?
I know they say that in the South. They're not that isolated.
Marcus Hill #209: "Before we go tarring all the other students with the bigotry brush..."
But ALL these other students KNEW about the other prom and where it was located. Not ONE of them leaked this information to her-- not even anonymously, which would have been simple enough, no risk involved. But no, not ONE of them-- the students, the parents, the faculty.
Oh, yes, EVERY one of those pathetic redneck sacks of shit is indeed a bigot.
@220
Most people on here aren't pitying Constance, they're attacking the assholes who did this shit for good reason.
I don't have much to add to the conversation except to say a rare: fuck the ACLU. This story didn't have to happen this way and a big part of the blame lies on the bigots there who would turn down a $20,000 donation from a humanist (one of the most positve philosophies out there) group.
Also, I'm pro-disrupting their graduation. Ruin every single one of the home movies being taken by yelling "fuck you, you fucking bigot" as each name is called. All these redneck, illiterate, bible mis-interpreting fucks deserves a good public shaming
@mikerattlesnake:
Uh - the ACLU didn't turn down the money. It's not up to them. There was a follow-up to that story. http://www.aclu.org/lgbt-rights/aclu-apologizes-american-humanist-assoc…
Kevin - clarification:
It was the ACLU who turned down the money, because they were handling the donations for the Mississippi Safe Schools Coalition and it was an ACLU employee who gave the rejection. However, the ACLU now claims that it was a rogue single employee who shouldn't have turned it down (and didn't have that authority in any case), and the MSSC was upset about the whole thing.
#225
Right, and her detractors accuse her of being a shit disturber who intentionally ignited a controversy. I agree with them, but I consider that an admirable trait.
I am just trying to emphasize her intelligence. I haven't seen a school district this savagely pwned and humiliated since Dover. I don't think she is being given enough credit, not so much here, but in general.
GO GIRL !!
@mikerattlesnake - I normally oppose that sort of thing, but in this case I agree, they've clearly invited protest at their graduation, and it should be disrupted in a non-violent manner as you suggest.
@Carlie:
Thanks for the clarification. So no blame to the ACLU itself, but blame is held on the employee.
This is not a person to be pitied, this is someone from whom we have not heard the last. She's a born agitator who knows how to throw the first punch, then rope a dope the opposition. This young lady is amazing, and the courage it took to take the first shot, and then improvise devastating social judo to end game is a humbling lesson in how not to be the victim.
IT'S THE GAY AGENDA AT WORK!!!!!
Though come to think of it, as an LGBT person, I do have an agenda. It's in my backpack.
Pffft. Fucking Mississippi.
*looks around at... Texas*
Errr... yeah.
Can some one get me out of here?
I wonder what the school yearbook will look like...and how I can get my hands on one, legally, without giving this rube school district one penny.
@Ol'Greg:
I'm feelin' you here in Virginia, where our governor sees fit to honor the Confederacy this month, and where an armed march of guns rights advocates is going to go through my backyard more or less.
#232:
"We're better than Mississippi!" somehow doesn't seem like something to brag about, does it?
Come to Massachusetts. Bizarrely, there is some great Tex-Mex food here (and other cuisines, of course).
You'll only have shit weather and congested traffic to worry about.
@ 231
I recently heard the following, but I forget where.
"Those who fought to end slavery were not pushing a slave agenda "
Hah, I live in Texas, and I agree with W.C. Fields.
"Better here than Philadelphia."
But then again, I'm not living in Lubbock, or Waco.
@225
Except, honestly, they're not really misinterpreting. The Bible really does espouse many of the bigoted ideas they've got in their heads.
Not that that's an excuse or anything. But the Bible is horrible and shouldn't be given a free pass.
I sense you are trying to be fair, but I wish to offer a clarification.
I did plenty of nasty things as a teenager out of peer pressure. As an adult, the burden is on me to acknowledge those wrongs, atone for them, and make sure that I help make a world where they can never happen again. That is my responsibility (not that I live up to it well, I am sure) and I expect nothing less of these teenagers, either.
You now owe us a camera. :P
Indeed, because how DARE Constance and her girlfriend dance for their own enjoyment. It should all be done for the pleasure of the patriarchy.
So are these the "small town values" the far right politicians claim they covet?
I wonder how many of the good Christian kids at Itawamba High went off and had pre-marital sex after their secret prom? And how many date rapes were committed? That's in keeping with their small town Christian values, right?
I would rather be in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania than be in Philadelphia, Mississippi.
And, yes, darth_boredhd, they grow the best people in places like Itawamba. I wonder if they would drive out witches if they could get away with it.
To be fair to the authors of the Bible, it's not as clear-cut as the young comment-writer claims. The Old Testament prohibitions on homosexual behavior are very clear, but they are mixed in among all the other very clear laws that Christians claim they no longer have to follow because Jesus "fulfilled" them. That is, if you believe homosexual behavior is an abomination, you have to believe eating shellfish is too.
The New Testament barely mentions it at all. Paul criticizes the Romans for homosexual sex along with other "deviant" sexual practices, but it is in the context of criticizing certain immoral Romans. It's not entirely clear that it's a blanket prohibition. He's actually more clear about his disapproval of divorce.
There are plenty of things to dislike about the New Testament, but it doesn't condemn homosexuality as clearly or as forcefully as some Christians claim. When an evangelical Christian says "The Bible says..." what they really mean is "My preacher says the Bible says..." As noted above, they can't even write modern English. Do we really think they can understand the King James Version of the Bible?
What you'd call 'The State of High Hopes'!
@Janine (#244)
I dunno, Philly PA can be kind of a mean place to live. "City of Brotherly Love" in name only. I think it's the only place in the US where you can get chased out with pitchforks and torches for ordering a cheesesteak incorrectly - hoooboy you do not want to mess up or insult Philly cuisine.
@Truthspeaker (#245)
Some also have reason to believe that the Centurion's "servant" that Jesus healed in the gospels wasn't so much his servant as he was his gay lover.
The odd thing about this is that I recall girls dancing with each other at pretty much every high school dance I ever attended... and this was in Texas. Some of the girls may have been lesbians, but I think mostly it was just a matter of wanting to dance, and there not being a boy handy.
The boys didn't dance with each other, of course: That would've been so gay... but girls were entirely unselfconscious about dancing with each other, and even holding hands. How does it come to pass that 30+ years later the people in this town are motivated to go to such freakish lengths just to avoid dancing next to an all-female couple?
I believe in my heart that the historical trend in this country is favorable for gay rights, and for a more honest, humane approach to human sexuality generally... but instances like this one shake my faith. Hopefully it's just one of many retrograde eddies in a much larger flow of opinion in the broadly correct direction.
I'm rather surprised that nobody's made the analogy to Rosa Parks yet. Constance did what she had a right to do, knowing it would ignite a shitstorm with her at the center. This is the kind of social disobedience I always wish I had the nerve/opportunity to practice.
One tiny good thing came out of all this: my Indiana surroundings are looking better by the minute. (Still leaving for one coast or the other as soon as I get the chance though.)
That sounds good, but I'm not sure exactly what it's supposed to mean.
As an aside (and at the risk of being inappropriately flippant), every time I hear or read Itawamba, I can't help thinking "I get knocked down, but I get up again!"
Kevin, I was being a bit of a smart ass. But look up the history of Philadelphia, Mississippi. Find out why Ronald Reagan gave his first speech there after being named the Republican nominee for President in 1980. It is racist and murderous.
<headdesk>
Repeated for truth.
Iiiiiiinteresting.
That was easy – it wasn't really planned...
It was just a guy on the radio who said "kill 'em all" till people did what he said.
"I got the hood! I got the hood!"
– Dr Evil
<headdesk>
@Janine:
Me too, actually. I enjoy showing the intelligence of my buttocks. (Though I was being truthful about the whole ordering a cheesesteak thing. Whiz, provolone, or American are the only cheeses allowed to grace thin-sliced steak.)
And yeah - I should have remembered Philadelphia, MS - I learned about those murders (civil rights workers) recently. Eesh, not a good place at all.
I'll be totally serious: Northern Virginia is the furthest south I go unless I'm in a liberal enclave!
Even then, I wouldn't even live in a liberal enclave if it was in a conservative state.
Don't make me pull over or you'll all be sorry.
As a peace offering, I want you to know I had the best buttermilk biscuits, sausage, and cajun gravy last night.
In a Massachusetts restaurant.
@MrFire:
Wait... excellent southern food without the crazy southerners?
I mean it, and I'm looking at you Kevin.
"attiuince=Audience
Really...say it out loud in a hick accent. "
*tries pronouncing the "iui" triphthong in a hick accent*
*face turns inside out*
@Rev BDC:
Not ALL southerners are crazy, just most of them.
OK, to make Rev. BDC's blood pressure go down, I'll try start a flame war with Kevin.
As in, "Can I have one that actually tastes good?"
@MrFire:
Oh, you did not just go there! Sir, I challenge you to fisticuffs!
And not all Philadelphians are undereducated assholes*. Just most of them.
AH HA! Take that Sir.
*especially Eagles fans
@Rev BDC:
You did not just make fun of Eagles fans! I challenge you, too, to fisticuffs! As soon as I'm done wiping the floor with MrFire!
I most certainly did. And when I'm done I'll make fun of Phillies fans.
In all actuality... Philadelphians (especially Eagles fans) are kind of assholes. We're a very mean people.
Every NFL game I've been to involving the Eagles made me want to get in a fight when I left. Especially when they win and they sing that god damn awful song the whole way out of the stadium
@Rev BDC #265:
Better be careful there. Rabid Phillies fans can get scary.
Fisticuffs it is.
Is that like insulting the Sasquatch?
(/To make it easier for you, I'm originally from the UK. Let 'er rip.)
Yes I know this. I'm just jealous as a Braves fan, at the moment. But that'll change.
Autti-u-ince.
Cute. Deep south diphthongs are confusing. Where I live (still hick, but not really the south anymore I don't think) the sound would be more like "oddyens."
So you'd never live in California!? lol
As far as conservative states I wouldn't either, except for the fact that I was born here and am stuck here for the time being and what family I do have and what people I do know are all here.
The sports REAL glory of Philadelphia Sports dates back to the Flyers in the 70's. Go to youtube and search [hockey fights]. Also look into the soviets coming to Phila to play the Stanley Cup winners and QUITTING because they were afraid of ambulances.
Those were the days for sure. Other than that, I'm glad I'm outa there.
If I ever go back to PA, it'll be Pittsburgh, far more civilized. That's where all my college friends were from.
I'll settle Kevin's, Rev's, and MrFire's argument by praising California!
@MrFire:
I don't know enough about the UK... I can make fun of the way you spell things, but really that would just be making fun of myself, because it's Americans who spell things weird.
As far as Philly cuisine goes - have you ever heard of scrapple? Being from the UK, it might be something you'd enjoy. It's, more or less, pig-in-a-blender.
@Rev BDC:
Philly could win again, we'll see in the end!
Course right now, I'm in Skins/Nats/Caps country. So I'm used to defending my sports teams.
MAJeff, OM @ 204:
It's also about punishing anyone who would support those Queers, even someone who was utterly indifferent would come in for punishment.
Oh yeah another great moment in Philly sports was when they booed the shit out of hockeymom Sarah Palin at a Flyers game, even though she brought her kids to hide behind.
@scooterKPFT:
Broad Street Bullies, back when hockey was fun.
Well, I do like In-n-Out Burger.
@278
pfffft White Castle rules
@239
Regardless of what the bible says (and it says a lot of good, bad, and contradictory things) these kids are barely literate. I assume everything they read is misinterpreted.
@226
Thanks for the follow up on the ACLU. I'm always skeptical of the "lone gunman" excuse when a large organization makes a major fuck up, but it's nice to know they've at least changed positions.
@mikerattlesnake #280:
Glad I could clear it up for you.
I might be a little skeptical about it as well, but I trust they're doing the right thing now.
As a handicapped person myself (who also happens to have a black belt in the martial arts and is inclined toward violence), it really, really disturbs me that they excluded disabled kids from the prom. Everyone seems to be going on the assumption that they won't know the difference, but they assuredly do! It is patently obvious when someone is being just a bit too nice. All through public school I felt like I was the token disabled kid--people were just being nice to me because they felt like it was a requirement. I doubt Constance was unaware once she got there that the prom was a sham. She may have just, ala Savage Garden, carried on dancing to make a point.
Kevin @ 274
on Scrapple
That distinctive pig in a blender flavor has to do with brains. Despite MadCow, I consider the stuff somewhat of a delicacy.
Seared golden brown, mushy on the inside, a touch of maple syrup. It's an art form getting it just right.
You'll think you died and went to Camden.
and woke up with a tattoo
Funnily, I cede the floor to Americans on that most sacred of spelling cows, aluminum. The UK aluminium originated solely, I believe, on the whim of somebody who thought it "had a more classical sound."
@scooterKPFT #283:
Mh... scrapple is fantastic. People get all squicked out about it because they think it's gross, but it's so tasty. Sliced thin, fried up, so good. I would love some right now... but they don't cook it right around here. I'll have to pick some up at the grocery store when I get my rice and chicken stock.
@MrFire #284:
See, I'm a very strange person with my spelling and pronunciation. I spell grey like the English. I use the word theatre to mean 'a place where plays are performed' and theater to mean 'a place where movies are played.' I pronounce Aunt both ways depending on who I'm talking to (ant, awnt.) Pecan (peecan) pie, cookies, and butter pecan ice cream while pecan (peecahn) is just when they're alone.
Aluminum, though, is always going to be aluminum, no budging there.
Homophobes are always running around screaming about the "gay agenda" anytime anyone supports LGBT rights. The parallel being drawn here is that we don't run around saying abolitionists were supporting the "slave agenda." Bigots don't understand that the so-called "gay agenda," much like the so-called "feminist agenda," has nothing to do with a secret list of shit to do for a particular group, but has everything to do with making sure everyone has the same rights and the same opportunities for fulfillment and opportunity.
What the students and parents did was reprehensible. Ten or twenty years ago I could understand playing along to get along from the students, but these kids live in a century where these kinds of attitudes are no longer acceptable. Some of them should have had the courage to stand up, knowing, as they must, that there are many, many people outside their insular town that would support them and call them heroes. Nevermind that Constance McMillen has shown tremendous grace and fortitude that should inspired admiration, especially for one so young.
MrFire is correct. In fact, there are quite a few "Americanisms" (be they spelling, vocabulary or grammar) which actually predate the divide and separate evolution of American and British English, but which were replaced or fell into disuse in Britain (such as "trash" instead of rubbish or bin). As I'm a speaker of (primarily) American English who teaches EFL in Europe, and am therefore surrounded by Brits who think they, and only they, speak The One True English (tm) this is a subject of particular interest to me (read: bugbear/pet peeve).
Bill Bryson has a couple of interesting books on the subject.
/OT
Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texa really are reservoirs of stupid. Of the three, Mississippi has its own brand of virulent, violent, and proud stupidity that beggars belief.
A large porttion of the Itawamba Agricultural High School alumni will be lucky to get a job at the neighborhood lube rack or the local pancake house.
Ugh.
*Texas
Crap, I messed up the blockquotes in my post at #286
Here is what I was responding to:
Someone said:
In response someone else said:
Then I said:
Homophobes are always running around screaming about the "gay agenda" anytime anyone supports LGBT rights. The parallel being drawn here is that we don't run around saying abolitionists were supporting the "slave agenda." Bigots don't understand that the so-called "gay agenda," much like the so-called "feminist agenda," has nothing to do with a secret list of shit to do for a particular group, but has everything to do with making sure everyone has the same rights and the same opportunities for fulfillment and opportunity.
Stories likes this make me so extremely happy that I live in California. Yes, there are definitely areas inland where crazy Bible-thumpers live, but the coastal areas are ever so nice! Constance, the Bay Area would love to have you, dear!
On the spelling nonsense, we Americans invented spelling. There was no formal English spelling, pronunciation, or grammar before North America was colonized. This was just how the English aristocracy wanted it, it made it harder to pretend to be upper class and made it easier for the upper class to recognize pretenders through their different use of English. Americans decided they didn't like that and created grammar books, dictionaries, and clear rules of spelling.
Therefore the American spelling is always right.
Although the -ium ending is correct for the element?Is it all that hard to just add a poor little 'i'?You don't say strontum, titanum, helum, Americum, so why not be consistent?Not that I really care, but . . .
@SaraJ:
I would move to California if it weren't so far from those elements of my family who would miss me if I moved that far away. Of course, at the rate things are going, that's going to be my sister by the time this Christmas rolls around, when the majority of my family disavows any knowledge of their 'fallen' son.
@shonny:
Because I'm American, goldurnit! That's why I'm not consistent!
P.S. Since when is English consistent?
@ Kevin:
We'd love to have you, too! I live in Santa Cruz, it's pretty awesome, except for the weird alternative medicine crap that everyone seems to love around here.
Example, my boss has been having really severe lower back-pain for about a month. She's been going to the chiropractor and acupuncturist to "fix" it. Well, she finally went to a real doctor, had an MRI, and lo and behold(!) she has a herniated disc in her lower back that requires surgery.
#287 etc.
As a easy-going liberal type of person, I have no objection to and rejoice in alternative spellings. Even American ones... I don't use them - that's the anally retentive part.
As an English person what really bugs me though is that 'they' insist on it being called English. It isn't, it's American.
<\peeve>
Back to the thread though: It has been going through my head all day the treatment of a gay couple at my school and the little I did to counter it (25 years ago now) even though I am sure I did not join in the bullying. To those two, I apologise.
By default and in an anti-gay environment ("normal" 16 year-olds in a rural school) it took a long time to realise that 'gay' wasn't an insult and tolerance/acceptance was even necessary. I think I am reformed now, but I can see from my own experience how this cummulonimbus of hatred has arisen and wonderful to see the silver lining of Constance McMillan's response. She is an example to us all.
@SaraJ:
AltMed doesn't bother me so much. If you wanna spend your money on useless stuff, go right ahead and do it. I spend MY money on useless stuff a lot so I can't judge (I bought some digital non-combat pets for my World of Warcraft account, how useless is that?)
Unfortunately I don't think I'll getting transferred to a different area anytime soon because my department has a moratorium on transfers. Stupid bureaucracy!
On that same topic, "angry" is the original meaning of the word "mad". This was preserved in American English, while in British English the meaning changed to "insane".
Yeah, just like Austrians don't speak German, they speak Austrian. Wait...
Uh... then is it Australian, Indian, Bahamanian, South African, etc?
It's all English really. Just dialectical differences. Heck, Chaucer wrote in English but I doubt you talk like him.
@Truthspeaker:
I use 'mad' to mean 'insane' a lot. It just sounds better when you go, "Are you MAD?!" than "Are you insane?"
But you do say tantalum, molybdenum, and lanthanum. Unless you change those, it's not going to be consistent, anyway.
(Not to mention iron, copper, tungsten, zinc, etc.)
You can argue for making that one thing a fraction less irregular by using the more common rule, but it's a pretty weak argument.
I personally prefer "aluminum" because it's shorter. 5 syllables is too much for something normal people actually talk about regularly. (E.g., aluminum foil.) It's a common word and should be short, like iron, copper, zinc, etc., not long like americium et al. 4 syllables is bad enough, but it does roll off the tongue more easily than "aluminium."
Kevin (@301):
Yeah, it sounds better because it sounds British. We are nothing if not a nation of suppressed (and sometimes not-so-suppressed) anglophilia.
;^)
Except that it is the purveyors of altmed that cause real damage.
@Rev BDC:
I know the dangers of Alt Med, and I know why I'll never do it, but when I've spoken out about it, I always get ignored about it, dismissed very quickly. So I don't bother much anymore, long as they're not hurting me. They're idiots and make no sense, but their devotees aren't going to change their thoughts anytime soon.
Do you say molybdenium, platinium, tantalium, and lanthanium?
"This was preserved in American English, while in British English the meaning changed to "insane"."
Too bad, since they already have the perfectly cromulent word "daft".
Just a heads up, in case nobody mentioned this already. Looking at the pics on that facebook profile, I guarantee you this is a troll page.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31173101&op=1&o=global&view=globa…
Read this blog for years now, and this is what I choose to get an account to comment on. Oh well. Keep up the good fight, PZ!
I like to talk about Natrium and Kallium ions. Students hate me. Except the Greek ones.
#309
I find the potassium chloride under 'K' on my (Swiss) lab shelf more often than not, but not the potassium phosphate. Alliteration has a lot to answer for presumably.
Don't have time to make too much fuss about it - too busy changing the 'z's to 's's.
Damnit, that will teach me to not refresh before posting. Paul W. totally beat me to pointing out other "-um" vs "-ium" exceptions. On that note, it's horribly creepy sometimes seeing him post the same things as I do (granted, at much greater length and better reasoned, generally). W is my middle initial....
I agree with Phil Sheridan: "If I owned Texas and Hell, I would rent out Texas and live in Hell."
BTW, Brits (and Aussies, Kiwis, Canucks, and other writers of non-standard English), the proper spelling of the metal is aluminininininininium.
Sorry, I didn't mean to contribute to a spelling derail (itself an offshoot of a cuisine derail - that I also had a hand in).
I've been trying to think of how to raise my (future) children to not make these kinds of 'sins of omission', the way I did. Should I teach them to intervene (directly or otherwise) in such injustices (while I, of course, set the example), even at risk to themselves? A lot may depend on the nature of my offspring, but I wonder what I can do to allow that kind of resolve to flourish.
Ultimately - ideally - I want all of subsequent generations to have mechanisms in place to realize that any form of bullying is unacceptable.
Because it cannot be said enough, the Itawamba students and parents who secretly planned and held the unofficial prom are absolute shitheads. Look at what one of the bigoted students wrote (via AKA William):
Well isn't that special, Itawamba unclefuckers? Yep, you sure showed 'em.
Golly gee whiz, you wanted drama-free, eh? Seems to me simply allowing Constance and her girlfriend attend, without fussing over dress (they weren't going to appear nekkid, ya know) would have guaranteed drama-free. The rest of you idiots in HS could have then simply done what you do best - acting like ignorant mouthbreathers and completely ignored Constance, her friend and the disabled.
Disgusting assholes.
*sigh*
Do I have to get all historical on all of you?
In 1776, these here American Colonies declared themselves independent of theirdentally-callenged oppressors, and fought a war. We won. What the English conceded was to not contest our independence, so long as we continued to let in all the religious wackos from their country who screeched "religious persecution." (Bad move on our part, IMHO.)
Forward to the American War of 1812. After soundly routing the British for burning down the White House, and driving from the swamps of Louisiana and Mississippi (and subsequently allowing the genepool there to remain in isolation), we are officially declared the victors.
However, unable to grant us our independence AGAIN, the British were forced to cede their language to us, officially. Yes, since 1814, the language we now write has officially been American. According to the treaty, the language continued to be known as "English" for historical continuity (can't say that we weren't gracious winners). Grammar and pronunciation of the language was to be officially dictated by the American populace, according to the agreement. However, one caveat to the treaty maintained that the British were allowed to maintain their heretical, abberrent, and nonsensical spelling, pronunciations, and freakish usages. (Bonnet? Really?) Unfortunately, included within the terms of this caveat, British colonies and territories where American was used were also permitted to maintain their incorrect language usage.
Thus, because nearly all the Amerophonic world is actually former British Empire, Americans are the only ones who speak and write the language correctly.
NO! Don't give me any of your damned "citation needed" crap!
#313
Telling your children to intervene is really hard. It takes a lot of self-confidence (for the kid) and is probably going to do more for your liberal brownie point count than your child's well-being. Get them to put themselves in the other person's shoes; talk about diversity and tolerance; then lighten up and do something fun (with the children).
I would not have let my children go to the 'straight' prom. I would have encouraged, but not made them to go to the 'gay & disabled' one. I would hope they would chose the second, but you can't force it.
Ha! The Fulton Agricultural High School website has a mission statement that must be set to scroll at the reading ability of the people it serves. Although there seem to be too many big words for the reading level of a backwards ass town! Their mission statement is alos hypcritical in light of what was done there. What a bunch of bigots!
re 306:
Do you say molybdenium, platinium, tantalium, and lanthanium?
deja vu:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/03/episode_xliv_oooh_look_sniny…
Is it rolling easier off the tongue because it is actually easier to say, or because that's how you're used to pronouncing it? I've lived in the US now for 5 years, and it's probably only in the last 2 that I've been remotely comfortable saying Aluminum rather than Aluminium, infact in a recent trip to the UK I was roundly mocked for my Americanisms - they all now roll easily off the tongue, whereas when I first moved over here I felt almost dirty trying to make myself understood (still can't pronounce banana like a midwesterner without sounding like I'm doing an impersonation of someone from the deep south)
As a whole we didn’t support her decision to throw the district under the bus,
"AKAwilliam", Exactly who's decision was it to cancel the prom (i.e. "throw the district under the bus") because a gay couple wanted to attend? It wasn't Constance.
Article 1b Treaty of Ghent - you're absolutely right. Americans speak American, the English speak English; we are not sure what the Scottish speak (*).
(*) i.e. is it English or not?? Rather than we can't understand a word they're saying.
IslandBrewer, I like it when you talk historical.
I stand corrected.
What happens at Itawamba Agricultural High School reminds me of Ron Jones' "Third Wave" experiment.
I don't know how anybody can spew the crap those kids are spewing and not realize what a nutbag they are being.
@Kevin: Sadly, I also bought a digital non-combat pet for my WoW account... but it came with a REALLY cute stuffed Windrider cub for my very own, so how could I resist?
I think it's because it's actually a bit harder to say aluminium, stress- and tone-wise, but I don't really know, and I'm sure it's easier with practice.
Aluminum is especially easy when you say it as an adjective, a little sloppily and lazily, e.g. aloomnum foil, where the LOOM syllable is barely stressed more than the others.
For aluminium, getting the y sound in alu (alyu) and the ee sound in ium would be speedbumps, especially with the stress and pitch change for MIN sandwiched in between. Or so it seems to me. Even as alyuhMINyam, it seems harder.
#324:
Everyone should watch the German film Die Welle based on that. Brrr.
#318:
I think there should be one hyphen among those last three words. Interestingly, it works equally well in either position.
@SaraJ:
I totally didn't buy the Windrider and Gryphon pets because the plushies were too freakin' adorable to ignore. Hah, that would be totally unmanly of me.
@Kevin:
I am holding off on the gryphon, because, really, how nerdy can I be? But it is so cute, so I do kind of want one. They even come with a Horde emblem! (or you can get Alliance, but why would you?) :-)
@SaraJ:
Eh, I wanted both pets in game, so I bought both. They are VERY cute though. I think the windrider is cuter.
There are advantages to living in Texas. Like atheists are a lot tougher, more like a gang, we are totally despised, so we stick together like a prison gang, flying A tattoos and all.
there is no reason to build bridges with religious communities, it's us or them.
The ACA in Austin is arguably the most productive and outspoken atheist community in the United States.
Out on the coasts being an atheist isn't even an identity.
If you want to fight the good fight, you need the odds against you, it's more fun and builds stronger friendships.
Who gives a shit if you're the most outspoken atheist in LA or the Bay Area CA? It's like being an advocate for good weather and nice sunsets.
Out here on Pacifica Radio in Houston, if I don't get at least one death threat a week on the telephone, I feel like I'm slipping and turn it up a notch.
Get off the fence. How can you buy both? You're a traitor to your faction.
@Paul:
Cuz my main characters are a tauren druid and draenei paladin respectively! I couldn't deny the /waggle!!!
I think this conversation would fit better in the endless thread, what do you all think? Seeing as we're now drifting MADLY off topic.
What with the aluminum/aluminium argument, what about the helium/helion argument. Don't forget that...
Off-topic? Yeah. But this kind of rambling free-association stuff is what kept me sane growing up in a little town like Fulton. I was fortunate in having progressive parents, and enough siblings that I associated mostly with them instead of the small-town kids that I went to school with. We talked about a wide range of things, sorta like this blog does. We had no TV set, so we were even more outcast and even more forced to converse at home.
I don't know much about Constance's family, but I gather that her dad has been very supportive. Good for him, and good for her.
Anyone else know more about her family?
There are Alliance players here? True Pharyngulistas are For The Horde! (I play an undead warlock, of course.)
To all the Constance supporters, here's some interesting information. So...my friend graduated from this school last year and even she knew about the other prom. Here's the facts, just in case people care about those anymore! The prom was cancelled and the parents decided to put on a prom instead. The school, less than a week before the prom scheduled one. Everyone had already bought tickets to the parent prom, hence why they decided to go to that one. Constance knew about it as well, if she didn't she must have been living under a rock.
Dr. Myers,
You are so ignorant for calling students the names you mentioned in your blog. I am extremely disappointed that a professor, someone who is supposed to be smart and educated, is actually so ignorant. You are not from Mississippi and need to get your facts straight before bashing it. It's disappointing to know that someone who is shaping young minds would go out of his way to call minors bad names when he should be reasonably supporting his argument. I am so glad that you are not my professor nor ever will be.
we have seen the opinions and comments of those students on their facebook pages; they're bigoted homophobic assholes.
what's your point?
You just don't get it.
The problem is that you and your fellow students believe it is justifiable to exclude someone for their sexual preference, and over and over again, you reinforce that bigotry. I don't care about the timing, or whether your prejudiced parents supported it, or that people bought tickets to one prom, or that Constance knew about it -- the issue is your whole rotten history of bias.
I will say that I'm glad you won't be my student, either, so we're all happy. I'm at a university that values a little more tolerance than your school has trained you to recognize.
"ihatebigots":
How is that interesting information? More to the point, what does it have to do with the prom being canceled in the first place? That, you see, was the problem. Along with the rude, ignorant and hateful actions and responses by the inhabitants of Fulton.
I see. Dr. Myers (and all of us commenters), we're the bad guys, because we find this so-called "Mississippi lifestyle/attitude" repulsive? It would all be okay if we were happily hateful bible believers, would it?
Why don't you comment on exactly what the educators in Fulton have been doing? They certainly haven't been indulging in teaching much of any importance. For all your disappointment, you don't seem to have anything to say about how utterly wrong it is for the inhabitants of Fulton to treat gay people in such a manner while hiding behind the nastiness in the bible to uphold their bigotry, hatred and cowardice.
"ihatebigots": one thing I'd like to see you explain is your personal position on lesbians. Do you think it was fine that Constance attend your prom with a same-sex date? Do you think that most of your fellow students had no problem with a lesbian couple attending the dance?
That's the issue that matters in determining whether your school is infested with bigots, not how many days before the prom the students bought tickets.
Also, "ihatebigots", look at post #48 - that's a prime example of Fulton's teaching. Then look at post #110 - those are comments by adults - the people you're defending. The mere fact you can defend such complete ugliness is rather amazing.
PZ:
I certainly would put a bit of faith in the moniker ihatebigots if there had been any sign whatsoever that this person thought what was done was wrong.
First of all I don't go to the school, my friend did. Please read what I write and don't put words in my mouth. Secondly, students have taken dates of the same sex to prom before. There are loop holes, they just didn't cause any trouble and it was accepted by the students. Third, you reinforced what I was saying when you said what did the second prom have to do with the first prom anyways. And the students didn't cancel it, the administration did, so stop blaming them. Fourth, I never said the students comments were right, just that it was bad judgment to talk about minors in the way he did. Fifth, I am not even from Mississippi. I will admit Mississippi has some problems, just like any other state. Every state can use improvment, no state is perfect. I grew up in the north and Mississippi is not a bad place to live. The people here are the most kind of anywhere I have ever lived or visited. I doubt anyone on this site has even been to Mississippi. Don't hate on it, unless you have first hand experience. I came here and am going to the 3rd best pharmacy school in the country. This may seem irrelevant, but you don't seem to understand that smart people live here or are from here. USA Today even ranked my university as having THE BEST honors college in the nation. Sixth, not all people from Mississippi, including my friend that graduated from Fulton condemn Constance's lifestyle, like you are generalizing everyone to be doing. The point of my post was to let you know that you are being just as much or more bigotted as some of the people you are criticizing. Seventh, who said anything about a bible? Eighth, why would my beliefs on lesbianism matter? I am not discriminating against Constance. I am simply defending you calling Fulton and the high schoolers there "bigots" when you don't know the true story. Some students are hating on her, but to say all of them are is an unfair, untrue, generalized statement. Ninth, I hope you actually read this and comprehend it. Thank you for time.
Ok I did read those statements and I agree that bravery is more than you are making it out to be. By the way, just because someone has a different belief, why call them a "shithead" or "asshole" or other unmentionable names I have read. Why do you use such profanity? It's not needed and is disrespectful. I understand you feel passionate about the topic, but you make yourselves look like the idiots by calling these people such names. I am embarrassed for you. I have a good enough vocabulary and respect to respond to all of your opinions in a mannerly way.
ihatelurvbigots,
Don't complain about it to us, complain about it to the ACLU and the judge. I'm certain they would like to take a statement from your friend.
*rolls eyes* Alright, show us your warped version of the events.
The prom was canceled because of the anti-gay bigotry of the adults running the school and the school district. Did the parents intend to invite Constance to the real prom? Would they have welcomed her in a tuxedo with her female date?
The school scheduled a fake prom. A decoy.
Liar. The parent prom was the real prom, and Constance was not invited to it. Do you really think your dipshittery is not completely transparent to us?
Fuck you. She knew she was not invited to the real prom. At least a handful of the students (and presumably, parents) in Itawamba are not bigots and did show up at the fake prom.
ihatebigots (ironic pseudonym!), is there anything not factual here?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Itawamba_County_School_District_Prom_…
"they just didn't cause any trouble "
Oh Noes! Teh Uppity Gayz R causin' trouble and won't sit down in the back of the bus!
where I come from, 18-year-olds can behave like adults. why can't the youth from Mississippi?
except to those who are different, of course. typical in-group vs. out-group behavior.
which just means you haven't actually read anything on here, since multiple people have commented that they're from there.
false equivalence. words and actions aren't the same, you know.
liar. no one is calling people names for merely having a different belief, but for behaving like assholes and shitheads based on their beliefs.
tone troll, clutch your pearls somewhere else. your calls for verbal civility towards those who act in an uncivilized manner are entirely misplaced.
Thank you for defending us.
Unless you know her personally, why are you pretending like you know the story. You DON'T live there, you only hear the skewed media version of the story. Obviously you can call me a liar, because you, being from somewhere, America, knows exactly what happened. You witnessed it all and heard everything. You definitly must know the story better than those who live there. And guess what I can bash you without using profanity. That's because I'm smarter than you and can express my beliefs better than you. By the way are we in kindergarden *animating* what you're doing? Ha.
nice little ad hominem, with a sprinkling of red herring and argument from authority.
any other fallacies you'd like to add to this discussion?
Oh, we care about facts.
Why was the school prom canceled?
Why was the school prom reinstated?
Why didn't the school and parents co-ordinate so as to save the time and money for two proms?
I suspect she knew all too well about it, indeed.
Oh I am so glad that you gave me a link to Wikipedia aka an unreliable source. Did you know the first thing you learn about research papers is that Wikipedia is not considered a source. Even the bigotted ones in Mississippi learn that.
are you going to answer the question, or continue smugly evading the topic with your red herrings and lamely smug attempts at insulting people?
ihatebigots:
So, are you implying you know her personally, or are you merely being blatantly hypocritical?
Again, what factual errors do you find in the Wikipedia article?
What is missing from it that is of relevance?
Your attempted bashing is akin to being whipped with overcooked spaghetti.
All evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. :)
Yes you are calling people terrible names. Even those who I despise the most I wouldn't call a "shithead" etc.
And I think I should mention that Constance wears "girly" clothes in general. She only dresses in guys clothes when she wants to prove a point. And who cares if she wears boys clothes anyways. I know I don't. Many people in Fulton even question if she is a lesbian. By the way I do have gay friends. My point of posting is to let you know that calling everyone from that town a bigot is not true. They all have different beliefs. The whole situation has been very skewed and if anyone is to blame, it's the school board for cancelling in the first place.
By the way I'm glad there hasn't been any criticism on my university (you know that one in Mississippi). Oh that's because it's all true and you can't dispute it.
"ihatebigots" @ 346:
You don't go to the school, so are you telling this us as firsthand information, or second-third-fourth hand information? So, supposedly, gay students attending the prom is no big deal, they just have to slither through loopholes? Are you for real? Don't you see what is wrong with that, why it's wrong? Just so you know, you're having a discussion with a member of the LGBT community here, and I wonder if you have any idea at all of how ridiculous you sound.
No, that was not reinforcing what you said. You missed the point entirely. Not a huge surprise. No one, least of all me, blamed the students for canceling the prom. I certainly do hold their consequent actions, written words and attitudes to account. How many of the students made a stand to keep the prom, and allow everyone? Anyone bother to stand up to the idiotic decision by the admins? If they did, no one heard about it.
Now now, don't be getting your assumptions in a knot. You obviously didn't read this thread, or least didn't do so carefully. Many of the people who commented did or still do live in Mississippi. For the record, I have been there, so you can shut up about that now. Ignorant Bible Bangers don't impress me.
No one has said Mississippi is devoid of smart people. Most of them leave, that should tell you something. I think it's fair to say that Fulton is not exactly teeming with thoughtful, well-educated people. If you'd bother to read the damn thread, there are some very interesting stats about Mississippi. I'll point to post #191, for a take on your educated, smart people in Fulton. Now, I'd appreciate it if you would manage to read for your fucking self, rather than have me do all the work here. A person who takes pride in being smart and educated would do that for themself in the first place.
Great, round up all those Mississippians and let's hear from them. Not a single fucking one has bothered to say what happened in Fulton was a monumental fuck-up and it was wrong in every possible way. We aren't being bigoted, we're busy being repulsed and disgusted. You should be able to tell the difference. Again, a good portion of this thread was talking about feeling bad for people stuck in specific situations, such as those which might be present in Fulton. Again, you would know that if you read the damned thread.
It's pertinent to your defense of Fulton. If you don't see that, you aren't quite as smart as you're making yourself out to be.
I don't think it is unfair, as (I noted this earlier) all the evidence points to cretinous behaviour, all tied up in joyful hatred. You have nothing to say about the students who started the Facebook, I see. You know, a whole lot of people here went to that facebook, and waded through the comments. They weren't seeing people standing up for gay rights. When all the input has been along the lines of quit yer cryin' and we believe in the bible! and this is a christion [sic] town, that's what you go one. If there is actual evidence of students or townspeople of Fulton standing up, proudly, for gay rights, by all means, lead us to it. I feel fairly assured that's not going to happen.
As for reading comprehension, there's no problem with me. You, however, seem to have a bit of difficulty on that score, especially when you're hurling accusations without bothering to read the damn thread.
I hope dissecting every sentence I say is enjoyable for you because it's really enjoyable to me, seeing as how dumb most of the comments are.
and your limited vocabulary is proving what point, precisely?
right. and? what's wrong with making a statement? that's how wars for civil rights and equality are fought and won.
and the relevance of this is... what? even if she were straight and only playing, she'd have still effectively shown the Fulton school administration to be anti-gay bigots for canceling the prom, and the students for being exclusionary. and it's not like this is an exception, considering the suspension of the trans student from the same school.
would have been easier to make that distinction if more people had bothered to fight the evidently prevalent bigotry. as it was, most people just went with the crowd. again, typical in-group vs. out-group behavior.
and the relevance of this is what?
ihatebigotsamamoron wrote:
What the hell does that even mean, you pissant clown shoe?
"ihatebigots"
That should be bigoted. We all know Wikipedia is not accepted source when it comes to academics. Talking on a blog is now an academic exercise? I think not. Stop being an evasive weasel, and answer questions.
oh yes. I'm masturbating to it as we speak.
ihatebigots:
Can you elucidate in what manner 1 follows from 2 in my above quote? Because, despite your self-professed superior and exemplary clarity of expression, it seems like a non sequitur.
PS Have you considered that, had your university been found by a U.S. District Court to have violated a student's rights, and further, had then acted underhandedly so as to comply with the letter but not the spirit of the law, it would equally well have been criticised?
PPS For a third time, what factual errors or lacunae are there in the Wikipedia article I've linked to above?
"iambigots"
Oh ffs, don't be a tone troll. Substance is what matters. Don't faint over cussing, feel free to indulge yourself. You're focusing on tone rather than addressing the substance. (Paying attention to the sauce, ignoring the meat, see?)
I have been polite enough. You're not answering anything I have asked. I asked you repeatedly to comment on the actual, hateful behaviour of the Fultonites. I'm still waiting.
seriously, are you going to respond to any of the comments directed at you, or merely continue to generically whine about how we weren't there, and claim to be so much smarter because you use a smaller vocabulary, less creatively?
ihatebigots:
LOL.
D-K exemplified.
(Hint: it's not merely most of your comments that are dumb!)
"ihatebigots":
Neither do you, you said so yourself. Sorry to say, but you're making yourself out to be an idiot here.
"ihatebigots":
It's not just "a different belief" which deserves as much respect as any other. It's a disrespectful belief that negatively affects real people's lives. Calling people names because they do awful shit like this is nothing in comparison. Doing shit like this qualifies one as both a "shithead" and an "asshole". If you disagree, then you may first need to determine whether you yourself are in fact a shithead and an asshole.
I don't care how impolite it may seem to say so, because it's the truth. All of this hatred and ignorance has to end. Someday, whether you like it or not, it will. If it takes a few impolite words to wake people the fuck up from their hated-filled delusions, then that is what we ought to do.
Ah, finally, after all that irrelevant dribble, you've come to your "point", then. It makes no difference whether or not every person in town is a bigot. There are clearly many of them, and they are apparently in control. Not just in Fulton, MS, but in the world. That is a problem. So, if you don't actually want to defend them, please get out of the way or become a part of the solution.
"ihatebigots"
Cupcake, you think an awful lot of yourself. Highly educated people abound here. Being in pharmacy school doesn't make you a genius and a sufficient vocabulary does not make for a solid argument.
Your point? So she's femme. Do you honestly think that being gay has something to do with the way people dress?
Oh. Apparently, all you geniuses do think being gay has something to do with the way you dress. I have news for you, cupcake. Whether or not Constance is lesbian or bisexual, the homophobia of Fulton was revealed in full. Obviously, the Fultonites don't much like having their ugly attitudes brought to light. Tsk.
Goodness me. I'll bet you even let them use your bathroom! You're getting more pathetic by the word.
So, another tone troll comes in here in order to complain about the tone of comments. In doing so, it manages to be very condescending. It even purports that some of the comments are "dumb". Is it just me, or does it seem that tone trolls have a great amount of hypocrisy?
Oh. We do have horrible tone on Pharyngula. See how my name is merely Shen Zhou, rather than the proper Shén Zhōu? Terrible tone.
Silly bigot-lover. You could have verified the correctness of the facts as presented on Wikipedia if you had bothered to scroll down to References:
Two of those are from Mississippi, one is from a gay magazine that interviewed Constance. The facts are not on your side of the story because you are making shit up.
You have a severe case of projection. You think any of us care about being called dumb? I am more inclined to think that the one who threw out an entire university to stand behind is the one who has a problem with being dumb.
It's interesting that you think that this is even vaguely relevant.
And that you think that this pathetic cliché is making a convincing argument.
Ah well, it appears that ihatebigots has heroically desisted from further indulgence in the enjoyment of our comment dissection.
I suppose such abstemiousness should be considered praiseworthy. ;)
Gyeong:
It's not just you, and yes they do. I'd put money on this one being a TrueBeliever&trade as well as a weasel when it comes to actually answering anything. I have asked (politely), numerous times, for an opinion as to the hateful comments by the students and adults of Fulton and other parts of Mississippi. I had to point out post after post, because our little tone troll couldn't be bothered to read the damn thread.
Caine #372, thank you for pointing all that out about iamabigot's obsession with what Constance wears. Sheesh, what a sad sight to see.
*snicker* Very funny, Pikachu.
Gyeong Hwa Pak,
Oh, so it's Shén Zhōu! Now I get it. All this time I thought you meant you studied the mastication of wax tadpoles.
Yes, you and iheartbigots are right. Tone is very important.
aratina cage:
That bit of idiocy took me by surprise. I don't think I've heard any variant on "but look at how so and so dresses" in relation to being gay for decades. I don't live in Mississippi though. I guess that makes North Dakota surprisingly liberal! ;p (At least we have a Pride Weekend every year.)
Then why even mention it?
Seriously, you've had an oppurtunity here to address homophobia present in Mississippi (or America in general), but all you've done is be evasive and whined about people's tone.
Good that you pointed that out, because it means that you clearly don't understand what you're talking about.
no y'all, you're totally missing the point! you see, Constance would only have a good reason to want to wear a Tux to the prom is she, like, hated dresses and never dressed girly! Otherwise she's just doing it to spoil other people's proms, on purpose and stuff! Her clothing is very very relevant, because as we all know, you have to pick a style and then stick with it! you can't just change from butch to girly, because that's against the rules.
That does sound like an interesting field.
A tone poem for ye olde tone trolls.
Liszt - Les jeux d'eau à la Villa d'Este
EVERTYONE @ EVERYWHERE
Ihatebigots is making some good points here. It's the school authorities that went redneck-go-crazy, not the student body. The student body's motivations are not knowable, too many personalities, but what we CAN say is that the vast majority did not consider it their battle, which is not THAT unusual among high school seniors where activists are far between, and this is a small class.
But it is fair to say that Constance initiated a chain of events where adult authorities began to behave in ways that most people find unusual and distasteful, if not illegal.
she was able to use the very same internet, and the very same social networkling and legal resources that are available to EVERY AMERICAN to resist that authority.
The more she resisted, the more bizarre the pushback from so-called adults in positions of authority.
All she ever did was point at them and say 'look at this', and the closer we looked the crazier the behavior, and in the end, she handed the entire Fulton County their ass. The buffoons along with the bystanders
she fuck pwned them in the eyes of the world, just by pointing at them, and they did the rest.
Fulton County was Rosa Parked in a bad neighborhood
where their pick-up truck got jacked and stripped
and when they went around looking for it
they got jumped
and the whole world stripped off their Levis,
Stetsons and sold their Tony Lamas at the pawn shop for lunch money
and they are now standing in the middle of Main Street with their dicks in their hands
whining
"Noo FAIR"
And we're fucking laughing our asses off because she's a 17 year old girl and she PWNED YOU!!!!!
Happens to the best of us, I've deserved as much in my checkered past and the rest of us in the glass houses are feeling your pain, but shedding no tears
iluvbigots
Or as a lesbian in the South she was considered an outsider by many people and was not told about it? Since some of her peers set up a Facebook group telling her to "quit yer cryin" (knowing full well that the incident was being covered by the news) I don't think it's crazy to consider they withheld information about a party from her.
Jadehawk, OM:
Yes, it's obviously against the rules in Fulton, where smart people reign.
Caine, I am laughing at that, but I feel like I should be somewhat glum about it, too.
Just to make sure, though, I looked and there do appear to be Pride events in Mississippi like OUToberfest. That's a relief. And what with Constance and all, it is becoming one of the most pivotal places for LGBT youth civil rights advances that we have seen in some time.
I guess we'll have to give Mississippi some historical credit (for being on the wrong side of history and being yanked onto the right side) after Itawamba gets its ass handed to it by the courts.
aratina cage:
That is good to know. Still, it's not nice to know that the pocketed towns of Mississippi are stuffed with such god-soaked homophobics. It will be good to see them dragged into the age of reason, although I suspect that's going to take a long time yet.
I see that we had a visit from a rather conceited young idiot. Everyone who responded to this person did a great job refuting the foolishness the person was espousing. But there are some nits I must pick.
What do you mean by "girly"? That she wears mainly dresses and skirts? Or that the pants and shirts she wears has a feminine cut? This statements is meaningless as is.
And so fucking what that sometimes she dresses in something masculine? This is part of the fun of dressing, playing with the various meanings of clothes. (Now I am thinking of a friend who once dressed as Johnny Cash. Damn but she was so hot!)
And what do you mean about the line question if she is a lesbian? From my experience, people who question if a woman is a lesbian are implying that if she met a "real man" who would "put her in her place", she would no longer be a lesbian.
Twice, you talked about being bashed. Thank you for doing your part in making that word meaningless. A bashing is when a person suffers physical harm from an attack; an iron bar in the face, a boot to the ribs and blood being spilt because the victim "did not fit in". It is hot being at the receiving end of harsh and critical words. These are not the fucking same thing.
One last thing, you are implying that you are going to be a pharmacist. I hope, for the sake of the people who will be served by you, that you will be an honest practitioner of the practice. That you will fill prescriptions for contraception and for hormones of transgendered people.
So sorry that I have this fear about you but you have spent time defending bigots. Making the claim that people who are opposed to bigotry are also bigots is a common neo-con trope. And in all of your yapping, you have not shown any true intelligence.
Ihatebigots (fanshate, fan, promise), translated.
And I think I should mention that Constance wears "girly" clothes in general. She only dresses in guys clothes when she wants to prove a point. And who cares if she wears boys clothes anyways. I know I don't.
I think it should be noted that the Constanta "girls" dress as a whole. This is the first men's clothing, clothes, if you want to prove it. Who cares if your child can use the clothes. Number.
I think that should be respected. Modern Girls Plus Size dresses. First person, machine, if you want, that does not care if he wear clothes. Silver.
Lanzhou konseutantareul importance of women's clothing is often thought. This is the only organization that you want. The children dressed. Number.
The United States is a wonderful lab for finding what the hell is going on with the English language...
I think that "attiuince" may mean "attendance".
The writer [sic] seems to be suggesting that Constance was granted a prom ... but there was no guarantee that anybody else would be attending!
Janine, MOFMA, OM:
There's a fear I share with you, that our little I'm smarter than you! troll is a TrueBeliever&trade and will indeed find a way for his/her bigotry to thrive. It is all too common to find these particular types of self-righteous asshole pharmacists, especially in small towns, where women have little access or recourse when refused.
Wyvernsridge:
The consensus seems to be that attiuince means audience. That seems to fit the context.
Maybe this just doesn't seem as weird for some reason to you guys in the US, but it was something that jumped out at little old atheist me here in Australia: all these different scheduled/cancelled/parent/fake proms were all supposed to take place on Good Friday? In a town that prides itself on being full of good Christians?
Nobody thought it the least bit odd to be woo-hoo sexxay partying on what is meant to be the day of remembrance venerating Christ's sacrifice on the cross? I've mentioned the date of the prom to a couple of churchgoers here. They simply can't imagine that a whole town of Christians would happily schedule a school dance on that day, ever.
It seems like being a Christian in Fulton MS is all about belonging to their special little club rather than any appreciation of the central claim of their faith: the supposed sacrifice of Christ.
tigtog, in the U.S., Good Friday tends be celebrated/adhered to, whatevered differently by all the different brands of christianity. It's taken most seriously by Catholics; for all people, it's still a work and school day like any other.
Really? In the UK it's a public holiday.
But I guess how seriously it's taken probably does depend on denomination. Most of the Christians I know are either Catholic or Anglican, and make a big thing out of Good Friday (along with Ash Wednesday, Lent and so on). It might be different in evangelical Protestant sects.
Walton, yes. There might be towns in some states which don't do business, but it's not a holiday. I grew up catholic, and it's never been a holiday to my knowledge. Ash Wednesday, still a work/school day too. (There were masses throughout the day so people could get ashes smeared on their head though.)
I do understand that it's not a public holiday, but wouldn't that be even more of a reason for the "good Christians" to hold an evening church service on Good Friday rather than a school dance party?
Do evangelical Protestant groups really not have any scheduled worship/fellowship services on Good Friday at all?
tigtog, I don't have an answer for that. I have no idea how or when church services are held in Fulton, for all I know, they could have none on Good Friday, an early before work/school service, or a late after work/school service.
What I can say is these are the types of people who regularly attend church, they think people who don't go to church are bad (being outsiders) and use both going to church and the bible as a defense in their hatred. There would be no telling them that holding a prom on Good Friday would constitute being a not-so-good christian.
We do have a lot of people here who grew up religious in places not unlike Fulton, perhaps they'll be able to shed a bit of light on the situation.
Each religious group makes its own rules of course, and by the rules they have made it obviously must not seem odd at all, otherwise one presumes the pastor or equivalent would have objected to the original school prom plans for that date.
It just seems very, very foreign to my experience. Even if there was a late afternoon service that meant there was free time
oops, html error- what I meant to add was -
Just planning a party on Good Friday, given the symbolic weighting of the day, would seem tacky in the extreme to the Xians around here.
I don't know much about Mississippi, but in my experience, over here in Britain, there are two kinds of Christian homophobe.
Firstly, there are those who are churchgoers, very serious about Christianity, and seriously believer that homosexuality is a sin. These people are fairly rare in Britain (though there are a few, such as Stephen Green, an evangelical wingnut who runs a group called "Christian Voice), and those that do exist are mostly ignored. Even in the Catholic Church, while the senior bishops follow the anti-gay line, most lay Catholics just ignore it: indeed, I know lots of people who are both openly gay and practising Catholics. And the Anglican Church is now mainly pro-gay, so much so that there are now plenty of gay priests; Rowan Williams, the current Archbishop of Canterbury, tends to be more concerned with criticising the "greed" of bankers and calling for fairer global trade than with criticising anyone's sex lives. In general, Christians in Britain have a remarkable ability to ignore inconvenient or distasteful bits of their religion.
But there's also a much more common kind of homophobe in Britain: knee-jerk prejudiced right-wingers who think of themselves as "Christian", largely because they associate Christianity with their national heritage and British identity (as distinct from all those Muslims and scary foreigners), but don't go to church and mostly ignore Christianity in practice. These people might make vague references to "Christian values" to justify their homophobia, but they won't really have thought it through; for most of them, it boils down to instinctive bigotry, mindless traditionalism and "gay sex is icky". In Britain, these kinds of people tend to read the Daily Mail, a right-wing lowbrow newspaper which publishes regular rants against immigration and "political correctness" and blithers about how "British values" are being eroded. As well as being anti-gay, this group of people tend to have irrational views on immigration and criminal justice. (And, sadly, the major political parties seem set on pandering to their stupidity.)
Tiptog @ 400: "Do evangelical Protestant groups really not have any scheduled worship/fellowship services on Good Friday at all?"
Many non-liturgical churches have no special observances on "Good Friday" at all.
@Ray Moscow - well there you go, I've learnt something. It still seems a weird choice of day for Xians to treat just like any other. How can they really enjoy Resurrection Sunday and fully appreciate the salvific sacrifice if they haven't made themselves miserable beforehand with the horrors of Passion Friday?
Had to look up "salvific";
adj.
Having the intention or power to bring about salvation or redemption: "the doctrine that only a perfect male form can incarnate God fully and be salvific"
I never knew I was salvific. ;)
Walton,
That's the second time you've made that claim; it is quite wrong. One can be a practising Catholic, or a practising homosexual; they are mutually-exclusive.
Can. 212 §1.Conscious of their own responsibility, the Christian faithful are bound to follow with Christian obedience those things which the sacred pastors, inasmuch as they represent Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or establish as rulers of the Church.
(cf. Considerations Regarding Proposals To Give Legal Recognition To Unions Between Homosexual Persons)
Sacred Scripture condemns homosexual acts “as a serious depravity... (cf. Rom 1:24-27; 1 Cor 6:10; 1 Tim 1:10). This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered”.(5) This same moral judgment is found in many Christian writers of the first centuries(6) and is unanimously accepted by Catholic Tradition.
Nonetheless, according to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies “must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided”.(7) They are called, like other Christians, to live the virtue of chastity.(8) The homosexual inclination is however “objectively disordered”(9) and homosexual practices are “sins gravely contrary to chastity”.(10)
Note additionally:
In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection.
Note ref (10) above is to the Catechism:
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.
@John Morales,
Aww bless. I bet you think there aren't any Catholics using contraception either.
Three out of four ain't bad. What's next on the to do list?
What do you mean this isn't a to do list?
;-)
Louis
Not so. I am talking about people who were baptised and confirmed Catholic, attend Catholic churches, take the Catholic sacraments, describe themselves as Catholic, and are treated by the Catholic Church as Catholic. They are also in same-sex relationships and identify as gay. These people exist. Andrew Sullivan is probably the best-known example, but I know plenty personally in real life.
The Catholic Church itself does not take the view that someone who "lives in sin" is precluded from being a Catholic. (After all, an intrinsic part of Catholic teaching is that everyone is a sinner.) Unless they have been excommunicated, they are still Catholic. The fact that they may not be good Catholics, according to Catholic moral teaching, does not detract from the fact that they are Catholic, both according to their own view and the Catholic Church's view.
I agree with you that it is rather bizarre to be both gay and a Catholic. But it's rather like the whole "compatibility of religion and science" thing. Religion and the scientific method may not be compatible, but there are nevertheless people who are both good scientists and devoutly religious. The human brain can cope with a certain amount of cognitive dissonance.
There would be no telling them that holding a prom on Good Friday would constitute being a not-so-good christian.
Some of them do celebrate it. It just depends on the area. The Baptists didn't tend to do much for it that I remember, especially not the whole Passion frighfest, but they're cottoning to the idea.
Dang it--Where's the first part of what I pasted in...?
Grrrrrrrr.
I'm starting to understand Yosemite Sam better.
@ tigtog:
Of course there are Catholics using contraception. That doesn't mean that the Vatican would rubber-stamp them as True Catliks&trade any more than they would stompstamp teh gays as True Catliks&trade .
By the way I'm glad there hasn't been any criticism on my university (you know that one in Mississippi). Oh that's because it's all true and you can't dispute it.
Would that be the one where they can't get fans to stop waiving the Confederate battle flag? Or where they put the same flag in their state flag in resistance to the Civil Rights Movement? Yup, nothing bigoted at all about Mississippi.
tigtog,
Very droll. Actually, I'm married to one (though I refer to her as a church-going Catholic, rather than a practising one).
--
Walton, regardless of expedient turning of blind eyes, lack of enforcement and blatant hypocrisy by the institution and its members, what part of the CanonI linked to above (which refers to "THE OBLIGATIONS AND RIGHTS OF ALL THE CHRISTIAN FAITHFUL") is unclear to you?
I grant it's a de facto vs. a de jure distinction, but nonetheless.
@boygenius,
You could well be right about what the Vatican would say. There do however seem to be rather a lot of parish priests who couldn't care less what the Vatican says about either gay couples or fornicating spouses as congregants.
tigtog @417, yeah. They used to be called "heretics" and treated with the kindness for which the Church is justly legendary.
I know damn well I'm right about what the Vatican would say.
I'm willing to bet that these liberal parish priests are more likely to be called before the archdiocese than the pedophiles who keep their head down and just parrot the RCC dogma.
John,
saying that only those catholics who obbey the Cannon should be considered as de facto catholics is similar to saying that only those Americans who obbey the law should be considered as de facto Americans.
negentropyeater, perhaps so, but actually I was expressing the opposite.
Using your analogy, it's akin to me saying Americans who routinely break a law that is never enforced are not law-abiding Americans.
A practising Catholic would be one who practises what the Catechism which they profess to abide by dictates.
I generally don't practice semantics discussions.
(I don't know if a practising catholic is someone who obbeys all the rules or someone who is simply actively engaged).
This comic seems appropriate here.
Carlie,
that comic should have been placed next to Maureen Dowd's latest Op-Ed in the NYT:
The Church’s Judas Moment
I am starting to believe Constance is The Chessmaster, and a brilliant one at that.
She outwitted almost every single person in Fulton, that has to be worth something.
In Philadelphia the protestants generally sacrificed a rabbit to voodoo chickens, as I remember.
"It seems like being a Christian in Fulton MS is all about belonging to their special little club rather than any appreciation of the central claim of their faith: the supposed sacrifice of Christ."
You just described Christianity in America. How else could you explain all the T-shirts and other merchandise?
re 420:
I wonder if, by that definition, there are any practicing Catholics.
Maybe "practicing" should be the more common usage of "making mistakes but trying to improve".
John Morales's definition of a "practicing Catholic" would eliminate large numbers of priests: not just the ones who rape children, but any who have consensual relationships with each other, or with adult non-priests, or who find a sexual outlet in masturbation and fantasy.
What is the status of a Mass or confession performed by someone who is not a practicing Catholic? Is a marriage performed by one of these priests not considered valid by the church?
Or is the standard for "practicing" higher for laypeople than for the clergy?
(Personally, I'm not going to tell my Catholic friends that they aren't "practicing" if they break one or more of the rules. As SteveM notes, few if any Catholics, including the married heterosexuals, would qualify.)
*taps voodoo staff*
"Arise, Chicken! Arise, Chicken!"
I don't want to be seen as tone-trolling on ihatebigot's behalf, but it might be the case that there is too much unnecessary and unoriginal swearing on Pharyngula. As such, for his benefit and for the benefit of anyone else put off by swearing, I will make the following obscenity-free statement:
To the teachers and school officials responsible for this act - an act that can only be calculated to cause the maximum offence to Constance and the maximum inconvenience to the rest of the school, and which increases the risk of her suffering discrimination or even violent assault: you are disgusting. Pathetic. Worthless. You are a disgrace to their profession, to their school, to their town, to their state, and to their country. You are a disgrace to the human race. If there was any justice in the world, you vile bigots and appeasers of bigots would be dismissed from your jobs and replaced with people who actually understand that teachers need to support their students, not single them out for oppression, abuse, and scapegoating.
To the students who have made disparaging remarks about Constance to the media and on the internet: you are scum. Your own words condemn you. You are vile, disgusting, bigoted worms. You have the morality of a pack of wild dogs. You sense of ethics is stunted that you persist in maintaining your innocence of wrongdoing while in the same sentence proving again and again proving the very thing that you are denying. You are a hideous carbuncle on the face of humanity. You are beneath contempt.
To the other students who might not be bigots but nonetheless failed to speak out and/or attended the private prom: you might not be bigots, but you have done nothing to demonstrate it. You are tainted by your association. Your failure to stand up to bullying and intolerance is a mark of shame. You are cowards. You are sheep. You are pathetic. To use a phrase I once heard and have been longing for an opportunity to use: there has not been such a disgraceful display of invertebracy since the Precambrian.
To ihatebigots: you may have had a point, but if so you utterly failed to make it. Your “interesting information” about the situation was worthless piffle. It changes nothing. The school cancelled the prom – for reasons either of bigotry or appeasement of bigotry. The “good” people of the town decided to host their own prom – one at which Constance was quite clearly not welcome. The school then reinstated the original prom – if, as you say, “everyone” knew about the alternative prom and “everyone” had bought tickets, then the school would have know too. If they did not know this, then evidently they are too stupid to be in the job they are. If they did know this, and assumed that everyone would abandon the alternative that “everyone” had paid for, then again they are stupid. If they knew, and only put it on so they would have somewhere to hide “undesirables”, then as I said before, they are either bigots, or appeasers of bigots.
Your criticisms of Professor Myers are noted, and dismissed as worthless. Whether or not PZ is rude about bigots and appeasers of bigots has no bearing on his knowledge, his intelligence, or his suitability for his role. Especially not when the people he is being rude to are not his students, in all probability would not be capable of being his students due to their likely ignorance and probable rank stupidity. If the people he has insulted are so thin skinned that they cannot withstand his vitriol then they are even more pathetic that I had thought. Their status as “minors” is irrelevant. They are barely that, and most people that age will have both heard and used far fouler language that that used by PZ. People who cannot stand criticism by someone they have never heard of, on a website they never read, for acts that are at best indifference in the face of intolerance and at worst vile bigotry, are beneath contempt. They are fit only for mockery and scorn.
Your complaints about foul language, followed by playground-level taunts about us being “dumb” and you being “smarter” just make you seem like a childish fool.
Your attempts to divert the criticism of bigotry by making irrelevant comments about Constance’s dress, and by casting doubts on her sexuality merely serve to hint that you share the very prejudices that you are attempting to deny in others.
Every time someone dismantles your posts, your responses just reinforce the points they make. You first post was foolish and failed to get a useful point across, but I may have been willing to forgive and badly thought-out post and not let it reflect badly on you, had you acknowledged its flaws and accepted the criticism made. Instead, you resorted to insulting the other people here (while complaining about insults levelled at people elsewhere), ignored or dismissed perfectly valid criticism, while continuing to dig yourself deeper into your hole.
Whereas at first I would have thought you merely someone who made a foolish post, I am now convinced that you are simply a fool. Further more you are a whiny, thin-skinned, overly-concerned, troll. You mock the intelligence and accomplishments of your moral and academic betters, while demonstrating your utter paucity of intellect, morals, and eloquence. You are a slimy, good-for-nothing weasel, and a waste of space on this blog. You are at the very least an appeaser and an apologist for bigotry, and I would not be at all surprised if you were in fact a bigot yourself. If that is not the case, it is for you to demonstrate otherwise. If you apologise for your earlier insults, and renounce your foolish defence of the indefensible, they you may get a second chance to prove yourself worth listening to. If you do not, then your presence here is a tedious and pointless waste of everybody’s time.
For now, I have been willing to indulge your sensitivity about obscenities, but if you persist in your inane babbling, I cannot guarantee my forbearance.
Good day.
Yay! A starfart! A nice one, too.
I should clarify that what I meant by "practising Catholic" is someone who attends Mass regularly, receives the sacraments, and considers him- or herself to be an active member of the Catholic Church. I wasn't passing any kind of moral judgment on whether someone is a "good" or "bad" Catholic.
In any case, Catholic theology certainly does not hold that committing sins precludes you from being a Catholic. Rather the opposite: plenty of sins are tolerated as long as you go to confession afterwards. For a start, Silvio Berlusconi, despite multiple marriages and enough philandering to fill the pages of a thousand tabloids, remains a Catholic in good standing. And Rudy Giuliani and Teddy Kennedy both got away with their rather turbulent personal lives, too - though both were also targets of Vatican displeasure for their views on abortion.
Being gay, or being a serial divorcé(e), or sleeping around, or masturbating daily doesn't stop you being a Catholic in the RCC's eyes; they'd say that it just makes you a bad Catholic. As I understand it, the only things likely to get you excommunicated these days are heresy, performing ordinations without permission, and promoting abortion. (Hence the insane situation where the doctor who saved a child rape victim's life was excommunicated, but her rapist wasn't.) And even an excommunicated Catholic is still considered Catholic, though he or she can't receive the sacraments, and can be reconciled to the RCC by making a formal statement of repentance.
(An American bishop, incidentally, recently excommunicated members of this liberal Catholic group which campaigns for the ordination of women, an end to compulsory celibacy for priests, and reforms to the RCC's structure. In typical Vatican style, they use excommunication like a sledgehammer against people who dare criticise their crazier policies, but are rather more reluctant to use it against rapists and child-molesters.)
re 430:
Well said.
for ihatebigots:
Just to be clear, "I have many gay friends" is not proof you are not a bigot.
Fucking A right GravityIsJustATheory, stick it to the assholes.
Er, I mean, curses on the slimy leeches and the motherless vultures who defend them.
BTW, whenever I see "tu quoque" argument, my mind always turns it into "tu kwokkue". In others words, "Don't ban me or you will be sorry, your facebook friends will leave, and you must buy me a Leica camera body".
Ciao y'all
One last comment about "practicing Catholic". Here is at least one Bishop's take on what it means to be "practicing:
There are of course other definitions much more strict and more like John Morales' definition. But like this Bishop, I think such a strict definition really eliminates everyone, and so becomes pointless. Perhaps the middle ground is that to be "practicing" one must also acknowledge one's deviation from the catechism and duly confesses and prays for forgiveness.
I don't know and don't really care all that much, but having been raised Catholic, these issues do hold some academic interest, even though I have long since renounced the RCC and theism in general.
Delightful :-)
:-D
But thanks! If you repeat the tones often enough, maybe one day I'll remember them :-)
You can taste it, you can enjoy it... :-)
(I only can once the gas has left, though.)
What? I thought Protestants celebrate it at least as much as Easter Sunday? Is that just Lutherans? Catholics give Easter Sunday much more importance; Easter Monday is a public holiday in Catholic countries, while Good Friday is not; Good Friday is a public holiday in at least some Lutheran countries.
So probably it is just the Lutherans, then. Thanks.
LOL! :-D
Danes have both Friday and Monday off.
As well a Maundy thursday.
Uni make the holiday Weds to Tues to round things off, so it's a need week. (Or at least they used too.)
But, yeah, Good Friday (Long Friday in Danish) = Big Deal in Lutheranity. "Langfredag var en bitter dag, men skøn var Påskemorgen." (Spelt rightly this time.)
Easter Monday in Poland = lots of very wet fun :-)
Look, if you are going to make challenges like that you really need to be able to live with the consequences.
;-)
Louis
GravityIsJustATheory #420
Makes notes for April Mollies.
GravityIsJustATheory #430.
(Correcting Himself's typo)
Hah. In Austria, the entire two weeks are off.
(As is the entire month of February and the entire 3 months of July through September. Exams are allowed to be during such times, but courses aren't.)
?
...oh yeah... I dimly remember having seen something on TV... :-9
In Australia all three of Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Easter Monday are public holidays - but that's because we love long weekends, not because we (in general) love Jebus.
Good Friday is pretty much equal to Christmas Day in terms of what's not open - they're the only two days my gym is shut (dammit) and (also annoyingly) the only two days that you can't find somewhere to buy alcohol.
Sacrilege! Certain sacred rights should always be available...
For now, I have been willing to indulge your sensitivity about obscenities, but if you persist in your inane babbling, I cannot guarantee my forbearance.
Good day.
tl; dr. pare that down, kemosabe.
And fuck you, too.
Forgot the ;)
Fuck off concern troll. Unoriginal, put pertinent.
Ooh, that just has me quaking in my EEE boots...NOT...
Does anyone know what constitutes 'original swearing' anyway? Does that mean making up our own words with obscene definitions? Because that's just silly - and likely to have no impact at all.
But he wasn't threatening you NOR he was threatening ihatebigots.
Oh no, apology at ready. Again. Is that idjit IHB back at all? My boots are made for walkin'...(Nancy Sinatra...at my age, running is a past term).
Aquaria & Nerd, GravityIsJustATheory's post @ 430 was a sarcastic telling off to "ihatebigots", albeit a very late one, arriving long after our troll left.
I went out of my way to provide long, detailed and polite (little to no swearing) responses to that assclown. Now I'm rather sorry I bothered.
WowbaggerOM:
Creative Cussing 101? I really don't know, unless it harks back to original sin in some strange way, which would mean taking a certain god's name in vain. Or somethin'.
My sincere apologies GravityIsJustATheory. I my mistake...
So probably it is just the Lutherans, then. Thanks.
I attended a Lutheran school (Misery Snot--er, Missouri Synod), and we didn't make a big deal about it at all. Easter day was the big thing. I went to the Good Friday service with a friend (we were out of school that day), and it wasn't much different from the Christmas service.
As a senior who actually goes to IAHS, unlike the people who are commenting on here. i would just like to say a few things without getting my head bit off. first off the so called secret prom wasnt actually a prom it was a dance that the students put together after prom was canceled for the second time. everyone knew about the dance by tuesday afternoon. the parents had given all the prom fee money back to the students. the reason the second prom was cancled was becouse we were supposed to pay for our tickets by the saturday before prom giving the parents a week to set up. constance missed the deadline to buy her tickets. the deadline was not kept secert it was posted all around the school and announced over the intercom ever morning for a week. the parents didnt want to get sued and cause the school to loose there funding. so they gave it back to the school to hold. back to the dance the student body was not told untill wenesday, 2 days before prom. most of the students who had desided to go to the dance found out about the prom after the fact. so there was no secert prom we didnt disclude constance she new about the dance she could have come. now would people have been happy. no they wouldnt have ill admit that but thats because constance has destroyed any chance we had a a normal senior year.
seond thing is to all the people threating anybody who lives in fulton or goes to school there. you all need to get your facts stright, before threating to destroy our careers and basicly our lives. we didnt discriminate agianst gays or people who have learning disabilites. the kids who have learning disabilites are the most popular students at our school. we love them to death. they are some of the best people we have there and eveyone knows it. we didnt, havent , and aslong as there a sane people going to school there, they will never be discrimanted agianst. as for gays, yes we do live in the bible belt and there have been a few problems, but nothing like this. but the so called secret prom was not agianst gays. the seniors of iahs wanted one night of something that was normal we didnt have to worry about the press or being called names for something that we didnt do. i personal went to the dance that the senior and jr. parents put on and hey guess what im gay and i went with my girlfriend. it wasnt prom the students werent discriminateing agianst gays or students with learning disabilities. this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. understand i do not codone what the school bored did i am simply saying that the students arent as guility as everyone wants you to think. so i beg of you to please leave us alone so that whats left of our senior year might be standable. senior year is supposed to be fun, a time to remeber. all i have to say this is something that none of us will forget but we wish you all would.
senior from iahs, the first thing I note about your comment is you apparently don't care to (or perhaps know how to?) capitalise, or to write in a grammatical manner. Your egregious spelling errors I might condone, were it not the computer age and spellcheckers readily available.
That should be "bitten" - it's a past participle.
Also, you not only "would like" to say it, you are in fact saying it. Don't use the subjunctive unless you're speaking hypothetically.
That said, you may relax, your head is safe and cannot be bitten off over the 'net. :)
You might encounter some criticism, however (see below).
What's the difference?
[I here skip various vacuous justifications]
You're a senior? OMG!
Sigh. Yes, school is all about the prom/dance, not about the curriculum. </sarcasm>
Congratulations. You've just shot your credibility to hell and back.
To what threats do you refer?
What facts are not "straight"?
Making shit up for rhetorical purposes is not cool, you know?
So, they were invited to (and attended) your alternate dance (not prom)?
Truly Christian love, that is.
Nothing like what actually happened has happened?
Lying might be useful at times, but stupid, obvious lies certainly aren't.
You make a compelling case. For guilt to be attributed, one must have an inkling of what is right and what is wrong (not to mention having progressed beyond Piaget's "intuitive thought substage".
Your retardation is indeed an ameliorating factor.
Your begging is noted (though not indulged), and your desire to avoid the consequence of your actions is understandable, though morally corrupt.
To use an idiom: "Thank God for small mercies".
May you never forget.
Hi senior. Could you please explain how Constance destroyed any chance you guys had at a normal senior year? Also, what's the difference between a prom, and the private dance you folks had?
You don't condone the action, but you did nothing to stop it. You went along with the bigoted crowd. That makes you a spineless drone.
Please learn to use relative pronouns and punctuation when necessary.
senior from iahs, though I'm using a sledgehammer to crack a peanut¹, I note that when lying, it's best not to contradict yourself when you do so: (my highlighting):
See the discrepancy? :)
(Hint: the parents of the students are not the students.)
--
¹ That's an idiom, too.
senior from iahs @ 455:
Well, I see your writing skills are abysmal. Here's a bit of helpful advice: When you wish to be taken seriously, proper spelling, punctuation, grammar and paragraphs help. And for fuck's sake, use your godsdamn shift key! Really, what the hell have you lot learned in HS besides how to be spineless?
Getting responses which may not agree with your view and might possibly ask questions, as well as point out flaws in your reasoning does not constitute having your head bitten off. Just getting that out of the way.
I have news for you. A prom is a dance. You're not helping your case by starting out with such a weak ass premise.
All of the above is utterly irrelevant, something you Fultonites can't seem to get through your heads. When the school administration decided to cancel the prom, taking a bigoted, cowardly stance, where were the students, parents and townspeople of Fulton to say this is wrong!? Where were the people who stood up to such a bigoted, homophobic action? If you are actually, as you state, gay, why, in the name of decency did you not stand up? I'm a member of the LGBT community, and I would have spoken out. Loudly.
You know, we keep hearing that same exact line over and over: Constance has destroyed any chance we had as a normal senior year. Obviously, this is the line which has been decided on for all to parrot. What I'd like to know is exactly what that pathetic line means. How, exactly, was your whole senior year ruined?
Excuse me? Don't tell me, you're yet another "defender" who hasn't bothered to read this whole thread. How in the hell has anyone here threatened to destroy your "careers" and lives? That is quite the hyperbolic statement. When people act in a bigoted, intolerant, homophobic, cowardly and unethical manner, they are damaging themselves. No one else has to do a thing.
Golly. That must have why they were feted at your "dance", right? Wait, they weren't there. You do see the inconsistency here, right?
Right, there are no problems as long as gay people slither through loopholes and keep their gayness deep in the closet, buried under the stack of bibles and hatred. Mm hm. When way too many LGBT kids commit suicide every fucking year due to attitudes like those displayed in Fulton, I expect there's more than a few little problems.
Well, that didn't work out, did it? See, here's the thing, if the students and people of Fulton stood up for what was right in the first place, you all would have been hailed as heroes, and noted as a welcome and wonderful spot of tolerance in a hateful part of the U.S. You all didn't manage that though.
Yes, yes. We heard from someone else earlier that as long as anyone gay was willing to slither through "loopholes" and keep quiet, have no pride whatsoever, there wouldn't be a problem. If you actually are gay, you've got a serious problem in that you do not see or understand why that is wrong.
It's strange then, that so very many people don't see it that way. The defenders, like yourself, keep saying the same thing over and over. Ever heard the maxim actions speak louder than words? Perhaps you should think on that a bit. The actions of Fultonites spoke loud and clear. Not one voice protested the school administrations actions, nor their asinine policy regarding same sex partners and dress. Not a single one of you "defenders" coming here has said what was done was wrong. All you do is defend bigoted, homophobic, cowardly actions.
No, I don't think it has at all. What I do think is that a big, bright light got shone on Fulton, showing all the ugliness under all that church going.
Oh, but you did condone it and you are all guilty. By not standing up for what was right, you condemned yourselves as cowardly bigots.
Cupcake, no one is bothering you. We're having a discussion, on a blog, on the internet. Despite what you may think, that's not a form of persecution. It's not harassment. It's not interfering with your senior year in the least. Actions have consequences. Perhaps the next time you're faced with doing the right thing, you might actually do it. You don't get to cry now for acting like sniveling cowards the first time around.
Aaaw, poor, pitiful you. I don't see anyone stopping you from having fun. I hope you don't forget. I hope you are ashamed of what you have done for the rest of your life. It will serve as a good reminder to be thoughtful, compassionate, open-minded and to have the courage to stand up for what is right. I hope.
Going by your abysmal and egregious writing skills, I'm going to hope your missive is a poe. It probably isn't, but reading this sort of crap is both disheartening and revolting.
holy fuck, if that's how American High-School graduates write, this country is fucking doomed. I had to read #455 several times before being able to parse it properly. At the very least, some more attention to proper punctuation would have been nice; stream-of-consciousness writing might be very artistic, but it does not lend itself too well to information transfer.
Anyhow, that apologia didn't really serve any purpose, did it. Ever heard the saying "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing"? well, the school board committed evil, and the student body happily went with it and blamed it on Constance instead of using it as an opportunity to fight the evil. That's pretty lame, and it's a lesson you shouldn't ever forget, so I sure hope you're right when you say that none of you ever will. However, I very much doubt any of you have learned anything from this and will choose correctly the next time you have the choice between doing nothing and letting evil win, or acting to make a change for the better.
Wow, I hope you wrote your college applications with more care than you wrote this. And it isn't just spelling errors. "disclude", "standable"? really? And do you even understand what "condone" means? By not objecting to the boards action you are indeed condoning it. In other words, you are completely full of shit.
Let's not pick on "senior from iahs" for her writing skills or spelling errors. Not everyone proofreads their work when leaving comments on a blog. Her post may not have been a stellar example of the Queen's English, but it was perfectly comprehensible.
On the other hand, it's perfectly legitimate to demolish the substantive content of her post, which consisted entirely of absurd nonsense and pathetic apologia for bigotry.
Original swearing? Josh the Geologist's ridiculously porphyritic granitoid.
senior from iahs, decide comes from a Latin word that originally meant "cutting apart". There's no side in it.
(...and c wasn't ever pronounced [s] when Classical Latin was still a living language, but I digress.)
OT, has anyone heard from Geology Josh or Patricia? Inquiring mind wants to know.
Patricia's been around in the past day or three but I haven't seen anything of Josh in a long while.
senior from iahs #455,
Not true. Constance did nothing to destroy anything—your school administrators did that and blamed it on her like you just did.
Another fucking lie.
*blink blink blink* After everything you've written that is hard to believe. If it is true, it is a shame that you and your girlfriend would not stand with Constance against the discrimination and bullying and despicable that you are defending anti-gay bigotry.
Your choice to blame the victim like that proves that you are part of the problem. Constance didn't destroy your chances of a "normal" school year - your school did. She didn't ask them to refuse her participation in the first prom in the first place. That was the school's decision, not hers.
There was no reason to bother reading any further after that line. You already proved we weren't wrong about you with that one utterance right there - one which is on exactly the same moral low ground as a Muslim cleric saying a woman deserved to be raped because she was out in public alone.