Anyone who has ever had an annoying child sit behind them in the plane will crack up at this:
AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff.
AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff.
"The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family," AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said.
Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly.
Take that you little twerp.
I hate children on plane flights. Why do parents need to bring their children into a situation they know they are not going to be able to handle? It is unreasonable to expect silence from a two-year-old for longer than 30 seconds, so save us all the trouble and take a car. Or better yet, have the grandparents come to you.
There should be a minimum height requirement to get on airplanes.
UPDATE: I am LOVING the response to this post.
- 1) I am not sympathetic to people who say that I don't understand what it is like to be a parent. I don't have kids, but I am not an idiot either. I have seen how good parents control their children. My parents would and did remove me from situations -- restaurants, stores, etc. -- where I was throwing a tantrum. As a consequence, I didn't do that anymore. Further, we knew someone growing up who would drive from CO to Chicago to see the grandparents. They had triplets, and they knew that they would be crying the whole time if they flew. They would tuck them in the car during the evening and drive overnight. Just because the level of courtesy I am asking for isn't commonly practiced doesn't mean that it is impossible.
- 2) Some of you think I am the one being rude, but when I am on a flight with a loud child I deal with it like everyone else. I don't shout at the kid or the parents. However, my ethical imperative to deal with this situation in a polite manner does not free the parents of their ethical imperative not make their children someone else's problem. The parents of that child are imposing on my and everyone else's patience, and they should think twice about doing so in the future.
- 3) Finally, this is really a kid-specific issue. There are certainly infants out there who are going to be happy as a clam for 20 hours, and there are 15 year olds that I don't think should fly even then. If your kid can make it, have fun. If they can't, then common courtesy is a harsh mistress. If you feel comfortable knowing that you are being rude, so be it. I can't stop you. But you can't stop me from being amused when the logical consequence of someone's rude behavior comes and slaps them upside the head.
UPDATE: Let me just clarify something. I don't think that people with screaming children are bad because their children are screaming. Children are always screaming. Children are neurologically incapable of doing anything else.
People on planes with screaming children are doing something wrong because they are expecting their child do to something which they are quite visibly incapable of doing -- acting civilized for an extended period. Understand your child and what they are capable of. Be cognizant of other people's reactions to that. That is what I am saying.
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Next time I travel with my child to see my relatives in Europe, I'm going to take a car then.
Wait till you have children of your own.
The airline was right to remove them from the plain. But what about other many many well-behaved children? And parents?
Um, wow. I suppose we should just keep our children locked up in our houses until they're a more reasonable age when they stop misbehaving, like, oh, say, 21? :)
The fact is, any situation can be difficult for a kid this age. My kids have had tantrums at school, at the grocery store, at restaurants, wherever. They're rare, thankfully, but they happen. No kid is going to be perfect 100% of the time in public, at least, none that I've ever met, no matter how well-behaved they are generally. And I understand that the confined space of an airplane--or a train, or a bus, or wherever--is really difficult for single people without kids, who just want to throw the "little twerp" out the window. But I don't think you can expect someone to drive for days across the country just to avoid giving someone else a bit of discomfort and annoyance on a plane. I'd like to kick off some of the loud-talking annoying adults too; they're typically more inconsiderate than my kids are.
That said, I don't know if the airline was right or wrong in kicking the family off. If a kid is delaying a flight then I think there can be some justification for having them removed. But extrapolating from one such instance to "height limits on flights," which I'm assuming is a bit of hyperbole, is unfair to the rest of the kids who are good most of the time on these types of trips--the kids who fade into the background and don't get noticed.
And the corollaries are:
It is unreasonable to expect silence on a jet airplane which has gigantic roaring engines, talking people crammed inches apart, and a forty-year history of carrying families including small children.
Next time, please save the rest of us all the self-indulgent whining and take a car yourself. Or better yet just plug in your iPod and tune it out. Parents do not plan, predict or enjoy public outbursts by their children in these situations, and the uncivil eye-rolling and post hoc moralizing by drama queen childless bystanders does no one any good.
My, my ... how tolerant of you. This must be about the most ignorant append I've seen on your blog ...
I think if the parents couldn't force the kid to take her seat, then the airline did the right thing.
re your rant: I feel your pain, but that's got about as much chance of flying as a Muslim with an M16.
My 3-year old son loves to kick the seat in front of him and also loves to bang the table. Once he also reached over and grabbed the hair of a passenger in front. Jake, next time you plan on a long flight, please post it here and I'll try to arange sitting my son behind you.
LOL! The parents responding to this are exactly the kind of people who would cause this situation. Self-involved thinking everyone should put up with their precious child. They are actually indignant that people don't want to put up with them. FUNNY! Here's a hint. If your child is so out of control that you can't buckle them up to take-off, don't wait for someone to ask you to leave - VOLUNTEER to leave. It's your kid so if anyone should have their plans disrupted, it's you!
Child delaying flight - should be removed, especially as airline gave them a refund and put them on a flight the next day. After all, the plane is full of people who might miss connections, and the plane was probably needed for another flight.
Child making noise - fairly low on the list of annoyances that come along with flying these days.
Maybe we're talking past each other a bit. I'm not defending bad parental behavior or advocating for letting kids scream and throw tantrums in public. You say:
But you don't know that this child *isn't* capable of that. Obviously, they got from Fort Worth to Massachusetts somehow; maybe she was an angel on that flight. Maybe she'd just missed a nap, or had a bad day, or whatever. You don't know that this kid *wasn't* capable of "acting civilized" for the length of the flight, nor do you know what really went down there, if the 15 minute delay was due to the kid, etc.
WRT your updates, I also have removed my kids from public places when they misbehaved. They know I expect them to have good manners, and most of the time they do. (EM can verify). And on things like flights or long trips, I always took things to keep them busy--snacks, crayons, toys, anything to keep them occupied. Usually it works, but everyone has a bad day every now and then. I just think from this story, there's not enough information to determine how long the kid was crying, if the parents really were obnoxious and ignoring the other passengers, etc.
But I guess I'll just stick it.
Oh, give it up ... you quite clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Children are obviously a mystery to you ...
This reminds me of an old Bill Hicks routine where he expresses confusion at why planes allow kids but not smoking. The person sitting next to him as the kid pulls on his hair says something to the effect of "wow, look at that, the smaller they are, the cuter they are". He then explains a fantasy of the kid opening the emergency door and falling out. "Well look at that! The smaller he gets, the cuter he is!".
Guess a video is worth 1000 words.
I'm pretty much with Jake on this issue, and I think most of the commenters are disgareeing more with how he chose to frame his argument, rather than the perfectly sensible point he made. The airline acted correctly. The mere fact of being a parent with a child on an airplane does not exempt one from the requirements of common courtesy when it comes to a community form of transportation like flying. It's not their own private airplane, and other passengers should not have to suffer. Which doesn't make them bad parents. It just means their needs couldn't supersede those of the majority of passengers in the plane.
The child could have been having a bad day, but that's not the issue for the airline, which is not privy to the child's history and really can't get into the business of saying that this uncooperative child gets a pass while that uncooperative child gets booted. For the airline, the issue is getting a particular plane into the air on a particular day. If for whatever reason a passenger--child or adult--does not or cannot adhere to the rules for flying as a passenger, then the passenger--child or adult--must necessarily 'deplane'. However, it does not follow that enforcing the rules requires that either parents or child be judged and found wanting. (In any case, as has been pointed out, we probably don't have enough information to indulge ourselves in such judging.)
Having said that, I will now seemingly turn hypocrite and tell an anecdote that smacks of judging. When my daughter and I flew into the US from Peru, she was two months old and had never been in a car seat. As we careened aroung Lima in various decrepit taxis, minus seatbelts, I simply did my best to clutch her with one arm as she rested upon my chest fastened into a cloth baby carrier. With the other arm I braced myself against the side of the taxi. What a joy when we were met at the Roanoke airport by a friend who, as per instructions, brought with him a car seat! We buckled my daughter into it and began the forty-five minute drive from Roanoke to Radford. My daughter promptly began to wail. After several harrowing minutes of this, my friend asked me if we should pull over. I said no. We kept driving; my daughter fell asleep, and she never, ever again cried at being buckled into a car seat. Over the course of my daughter's life, she has faced several such rules that have been absolutely non-negotiable. As each rule was introduced, in short order my daughter learned where the boundary was and did NOT continue to test said boundary. I'm not claiming parental sainthood for myself (or child sainthood for my daughter), but I do think that it is possible to set and maintain clear boundaries. Again, we don't know if a failure to do so led to this particular incident, but I think people are right in thinking that there are parents out there who do not require that their children lead disciplined lives, and I do think that when that happens parents are being inconsiderate of others.
It's an individual thing, and I don't think it's necessarily realted to upbringing. Both of my girls are excellent travellers. One of my partners has a terrible time with his kids, who are about the same age. He even has problems driving them across town!
The biggest problem with my older one is the kicking the seatback thing. I put a stop to that pretty quick when it happens. One big help: a portable DVD player with two sets of headphones and a bunch of favourite movies - worth every dime!
The one disaster - I flew my girls from Vancouver to San Diego last year. In the middle of the flight my younger daughter developed explosive diarrhea - soiled ALL her clothes, the seat, and some of my clothes. The attendants were excellent, they made a caftan for her with an airline blanket and some pins. I was sure glad to get through customs and pick up our checked luggage!
Perhaps we are talking here about self-control by children from the sound of the responses here. Social control does not always devlve to postmodern ideas of letting the child be a free spirit and grow without external social controls. I am a parent. I believe that it indeed is the responsibility of these parents to problem solve in a manner which is not self-serving, narccisistic and imposing of others. That problem solving could include not taking children on planes, having the people you wish to visit visit you, and other ways of getting to the destination.
The problem is rampant selfishness. I suspect there will be lawsuits and new travel rules and impositions on "good" children and parents because of this--too bad, if only the parents had been just a little more responsible for their child.
It's not clear from the story ("The flight was already delayed 15 minutes") if the flight was already delayed or the 15 min delay was only because of the child. My guess is, that the flight was already delayed, as most flights are these days. In that case, it is the airline's fault. Flying these days (in the US) is a nightmare and the poor little child was only reacting to the frustration of spending hours in lines and what-not at airports. Good for him! I wish more adults would display same dissatisfaction with today's state of air travel!
The next time a child behind you persists in kicking your seat back, calmly lean over and tell them either that a) Santa Claus is dead, they had his funeral last week and there will be no Christmas ever again; or b) that man sitting next to them is not their real father and that they are adopted.
The child's energies will be directed elsewhere and as long as you have earplugs you will not be overly bothered by them for the rest of the flight. It ususally works.
Janne, tell me when you are next flying. I'll try to get my daughter a seat behind you so she can kick your seat back. We are a family formed via adoption, by the way, and we are very 'real.'
I wish more airlines would take action like this. Or give the parents the option of checking their offspring in to the cargo hold with the pet kennels.
My parents live in China and therefore I must endure the long, long flights 1-2x a year to see them. Invariably, there are kids on this flight like on any other. Thing is, on a 16 hour flight, people start getting cabin fever, kids too. Tantrums and screaming fits are par for the course on these flights. Yeah, its annoying, but thing is, I'm sure I did it when I was a kid and annoyed everyone else. I just consider it karma. Not like they can drive, so just turn up the volume or pop an Ambien.
On the other hand, there's been times when I thought about taking my bird, Pepper, on a flight when I travel. He gets very upset when i leave him alone, which is why I considered it. Small animals like birds can sit in a pet carrier on your lap. However, I know that banshees would likely sound melodic to my fellow passengers compared to what a scared parrot's lungs would do. And I cant conscience putting them, or Pepper, through that. If your kid is a banshee too, remember that I left Pepper at home! :)
I had one flight where a 6 year old boy would not sit still for the flight and kept crawling over me while his father was oblivious to this behavior. This went on until we hit a patch of turbulence and I showed the kid the violently flapping wing of the plane and told him that with this kind of shaking that wing could rip right off at any minute. He sat in his seat and stared at the wing for the rest of the flight, quietly whimpering.
However, that was the only bad experience I can recall with kids on a plane, and I've even seen a four year old girl be a perfect angel and social butterfly on a 9 hour flight to France. Now, movie theaters are a totally different story.
If the child won't settle down and behave so that the plane can take off within a reasonable amount of time (what constitutes "reasonable" may be a bit amorphous), then the kid and parents should be removed from the plane to allow the flight to proceed. No family has the right to delay or inconvenience a plane full of people, even if it's just the parents' bad luck that their kid is in a really bad mood right when the plane's ready to take off.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I have read your
[x] amusing [ ] annoying [ ] frightening
post on the topic of children in public with
[x] a wry chuckle [ ] guarded agreement
[ ] righteous fury [ ] determination not to make the same mistake
[ ] the intention of calling the police
The post in question refers to
[x] children in confined public spaces where nobody can escape
[ ] children in places where adults try to enjoy themselves
[x] harsh treatment or inconvenience for parents
[x] harsh treatment or inconvenience for everyone else
[ ] special privileges for those with children
[ ] extra obligations for those without children
and expresses
[x] smug amusement
[ ] outrage
regarding
[x] people getting their just desserts
[ ] people getting royally shafted
[ ] how adorable the little ones are when they act up
[ ] your unconcealed disgust for smelly fluids and sudden loud noises
[ ] how hard it is to raise kids these days
[ ] how hard it is to find peace and quiet these days
and directly or indirectly insults
[x] people with children
[ ] people without children
[ ] families with adopted children
[ ] families with disabled children
[ ] old people
[ ] children
[ ] pet owners
[ ] everybody
Your post reflects
[x] a harmless blowing off of steam
[ ] a lack of understanding of the difficulties of being a parent
[ ] a desire to force others to put up with your lack of parenting skills
[ ] a phase you'll grow out of as soon as you have children of your own
[ ] an infuriating disrespect for other people's life choices
[ ] a truly shocking disregard for the value of human life
[ ] a touching, but childish view of morality and ethics
[ ] a sinful disobedience of God that will be punished appropriately
[ ] a completely crazy intention to reproduce without limit
You must have
[x] a pretty good life
[ ] no idea what you sound like
[ ] had harsh toilet training as a child
[ ] a sick sense of humor
[ ] had a lobotomy at some point
I hope you
[x] write more of this stuff
[ ] are happy with yourself
[ ] rot in Hell
[ ] never reproduce
[ ] get a vasectomy / tubes tied (circle one) before it's too late
[ ] grow up / see the light
[ ] have __ kids of your own someday
[ ] never attain a position of influence
Yours sincerely,
EL
Beautiful, Electric Lungfish!
Yeah, lets all "childless bystanders" like us raise consciousness once and for all. An annoying child is just like an obnoxious cigar smoker in a restaurant. It's unacceptable. Know your child and take your responsibilities, and please stop acting outraged when someone dares rolling his eyes while your child is putting a tantrum. The least you could do is express some embarassment.
people dont complain too much over this.
have you even tried to fly to India or Bangladesh or any other country around that area where kids CAN do whatever they like and the parents WILL NOT shut them?
they are just kids.thats what they say to you after the little evil has been crying his bones out for 6 hours,stepped over your dinner and kicked the seat until the inches comes apart.
i would personally lock them into the cargo area as close as possible to the jet engine.
a plane is an area that many people share for many hours.i personally try my best not to bother anybody ,not even the crew so why dont you people put a stop onto this annoing and bad behavior.
its not the kid fault.its the parents fault.