October 2012 Open Thread

More thread.


  1. #1 chek
    October 28, 2012

    “he’s only telling it how it is, the truth, it’s not his fault you can’t handle it”.

    No he’s repeating ad nauseam what he believes and what you like to hear, which is tedious and oh-so-predictable and a disruption for the other visitors to this blog, which is why he was confined to his own thread in the first place.

    Of course he’s free to do so to his little libertarian heart’s content. But not here.

  2. #2 Olaus Petri
    October 28, 2012

    The gnomes (Cheek and Wow) that never hate try to retaliate with foul language (from the back of their fetus positions)! What a surprise! 🙂

    All these Elders of something to fight down Deltoid-style.

  3. #3 chek
    October 28, 2012

    Jesus Christ Olap, you just don’t get it do you?

    Jonarse has nothing new to say. Nothing. Just as you couldn’t objectively ‘prove’ your existence to him, so nobody will ever impress on him the consilience of multiple lines of evidence for AGW.

    He’s his own one-riff tribute band, endlessly knocking out his one riff year after year and you swedish suckers keep buying the tickets and the tea shirts and fellating him when required.
    But not here. Enough is enough.

  4. #4 Wow
    October 28, 2012

    So you don’t know what your Lord and MASSter was talking about either, Olap?

    Well, he did sort of throw a slew of different made up things out there, I guess you’re not allowed to question Him, are you 🙂

    No, Jonarse defended himself against accusations never made, supported things that made no sense and just keeps hanging round ignoring PRIVATE PROPERTY like the true criminal he is.

    Luckily this blog DOES allow immediate binning of people for abusing the hosts’ hoslitality.

    Totally average knowing you, Jonarse 😀

  5. #5 Wow
    October 28, 2012

    “Scienceblogs is not the host’s ‘private property’. ”

    This blog is, though, Jonarse.

    I guess private property of others are nothing to you, are they, huh 🙂

    If your trespass on others property is, in your opinion, For The Greater Good ™, then you will just barge right in, won’t you, just like Stalin’s Secret Police, insisting on barging in to private homes to “protect the state” 😀

  6. #6 Olaus Petri
    October 28, 2012

    Wow and Chek, sorry to interupt your latest hate and intolerance manifestation, but have you noticed that Briffa recently has picked up an interest in orthopedics?



  7. #7 GSW
    October 28, 2012

    chek, chek, don’t be like that, think of it as a kind of therapy. You can’t hide away in your own little world for ever, you’ll end up like Jeff Bonaparte. Substituting things you “imagine” in preference to the world as it actually is.

    I know you’re not the brightest of specimens, but that really doesn’t matter(for you anyway), as long as you can face up to reality. We’ll take it a day at a time OK? We’ll all help you thru.

    PS. “He’s his own one-riff tribute band, endlessly knocking out his one riff year after year and you swedish suckers keep buying the tickets”

    At a guess, I’d say you may be getting Jonas muddled up with “Bjorn Again” the Abba tribute band from Australia?

  8. #8 chek
    October 28, 2012

    “sorry to interupt (sic) your latest hate and intolerance”

    Still being driven by those emoting fixations, eh Olap? Perhaps you’ll grow out of them. And no, I don’t follow your trash blogs with their everday-a-new-sensation agenda.

  9. #9 GSW
    October 28, 2012


    Thanks for the link Olaus. There’s an update to the Mann/NRO story as well, as a result the updated work. I particularly laughed at the “Popcorn futures* continue their unprecedented climb” graph.

  10. #10 chek
    October 28, 2012

    “Thanks for the link “

    Translation: Now we can all go groupjerk off imagining that one location in Sweden equals global, until reality breaks in yet again just like with every other new sensation Watts serves up to his undiscriminating’ news’ consumers..

  11. #11 Wow
    October 28, 2012

    Yet more bollocks from the drive-by’s?

    Maybe this one will go a little longer before they find themselves looking at jail time if they persue it than the last pathetic attempt at “NobelGate!”… 😛

  12. #12 Bernard J.
    October 28, 2012

    I seriously doubt that you read, have read or even are capable of reading any ‘primary literature’ dealing with real (quantitative) science (not armwaiving references to the words of others) dealing with any of the core questions. And when asked about any of those you never were able to resond intelligibly. Most likely, you didn’t even understand what was discussed….

    You are (completely, it seems) unable to read real science, to check facts and evaluate claims and what the purport to be based on.


    Way back in the beginning I asked you> to tell us which exactly papers you had read in order to arrive at your claim that scientists had not determined the confidence intervals for attribution of human contribution to global warming.

    Nothing was ever given by way of response.

    And without that response, you cannot demonstrate how it is that you reach the ‘understanding’ that you promote.

    I suggest that the reason for this is that you either:

    1) have not read the background material

    2) that you have but that you don’t want to list it because doing so will make you vulnerable to correction from the papers within the literature that you did read, or

    3) you don’t understand what is contained within the primary literature.

    To prove me wrong you only have to supply the list of papers you read in order to make your claim that the attribution was “made up”.

  13. #13 Jeff Harvey
    October 28, 2012

    Thanks for the support, Lionel, Check, Wow et al. Much appreciated. Its just a shame that the detritus that frequents denier blogs can’t stay there. For some reason they think that they can make some kind of inroad onto a serous science site like Deltoid.

    The real point is this: Deltoid is the only weblog I respond to these days. I have not time for WUWT, Bishop’s Hill CA or Climate Depot – these denier blogs can’t help but wear their contempt for science on their sleeves. The fact that they defend the wretched activities of the Heritage Foundation, and seem content to smear scientists (whilst giving platforms to Monckton and his ilk) should be proof positive of their intentions. I just wish the idiots brigade would stay locked into their own denial worlds. But for some strange reason they bring their brand of insidious ignorance beyond their own borders and over to here. They aren’t particularly smart or witty, even though they think they are.

    Friends and colleagues think I am unwise at best and stupid at worst to engage a bunch of academic non-entities like Jonas, GSW and Olaus on Deltoid. They certainly have a point. By engaging them, we are actually giving the impression that what they say matters. It does not, in any way, shape or form. That Jonas can airbrush out joint statements of every National Academy of Science on Earth with the most pithy of explanations – that their positions may not have been reached democratically – should tell us all how wafer-thin and desperate the position of the climate change denial community is. And the fact remains that, whatever Jonas, Olaus, GSW, Karen et al. try to suggest, none of them have ever made an impact in any scientific endeavor. They are beyond the academic fringe. Bottom feeders in the anoxic zone. But they – or at least Jonas – try to give the impression of being some kind of scientific and intellectual heavyweight, on the basis of zero credentials. Frankly, he can ‘laugh’ at me all he likes. As a complete non-entity, his laughter occurs in a vacuum. I’d tend to take notice if he was a tenured Professor somewhere and in my field of research, but he’s a nobody in no man’s land. I suppose that the best offense he’s got is to keep shouting at me about making up facts and to make disparaging remarks about my CV, but that’s all he’s got. Nobody in the world of science who matters has ever heard of the guy. He’s restricted to his own little fan club on a few web sites. Some pedigree.

    I do not recall Jonas or indeed any of the deniers actually discussing any of the many peer-reviewed studies that they have been presented with here. Bernard submitted a long list of them about a year ago, and I and others have variously pasted others up here. Jonas, in classical Jonas style, usually waves them away with his hand as being insignificant, or makes up some other excuse to downplay them.

    One final point though: it is fun speaking as an insider in the world of science watch rank outsiders pounding the walls with their fists in an attempt to suggest that education and qualifications don’t matter. See how esteemed scientists like Mann, Trenberth, Jones, Hansen and others are routinely attacked by people here with no letters after their names. It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

  14. #14 bill
    October 28, 2012

    From the ‘you’ve got to be freakin’ kidding me’ files – Murdoch to own Penguin?

  15. #15 MikeH
    October 29, 2012

    My son is currently bunkered down in Philadelphia so I am following Hurricane Sandy with more than usual interest.

    It seems that nature has a sense of humour – as the Rabbett has noted

    For those who do not know, the South Shore of Long Island is a long strip of low barrier islands. The most valuable land is closest to the shore and the lowest and most subject to flooding, including, of course, the Hamptons. As Eli often points out, a flood tide hitting that area would cause so much monetary damage that it would pay for just about any action the US takes to limit climate change.

    Now all we need is rich people who are rational.

  16. #16 Wow
    October 29, 2012

    Nah, like the Lloyds Names, they’d just demand a huge payout to pay for the “disaster”.

  17. #17 Wow
    October 29, 2012

    Anyway, since high tides have occurred before, they have to PROVE that this one was caused by the storm and that without the storm, there would have been no higher than normal tide!


  18. #18 Wow
    October 29, 2012

    And have they checked out whether subsidence is the cause of any problem? After all, if the ground sinks under your house, your house WILL be highly affected by flooding, so maybe the entire problem is merely a problem of subsidence.

    Or are these people pretending that subsidence doesn’t happen?

  19. #19 MikeH
    October 29, 2012

    Are the rich rational – well yes in their own perverse way. Just have pity on the rest of us.

    Hat tip to Andy Revkin who has made a career of straddling a barbed wire fence.

  20. #20 Lionel A
    October 29, 2012


    Some perverse quotes from Revkin:

    Here’s a thought from Patrick J. Michaels, the climatologist best known for his work for the libertarian Cato Institute…

    If Patrick J Michaels was ever a climate scientist, which I doubt, he is no longer for he is now engaged in advocacy and not science, and has been since the attacks, at least on Ben Santer in the 1990s. Revkin is trying very hard not to see that.

    But there remains far too much natural variability in the frequency and potency of rare and powerful storms — on time scales from decades to centuries – to go beyond pointing to this event being consistent with what’s projected on a human-heated planet.

    Not this tired old fudge and obfuscation. The distorted jet stream and warmer East Coast waters are just what’s expected in an overheating planet.

    The climate system is unstable and systems in this state flip around much. And Bill Ruddiman’s work sheds light on how humans pre-IR altered climate, so such instability can have a long history on top of any natural variability of which all those connected with Earth orbit are at the cooler end.

  21. #21 Lionel A
    October 29, 2012

    Revkin quotes Trenberth but using a summary that conflicts with the one at Climate Crocks.

    What’s Revkin up to now?

  22. #22 Wow
    October 29, 2012

    Are the deniers now denying that AGW could have an effect on hurricanes?

    Why the 100% certainty all-of-a-sudden?

    Not very scientific (then again, despite crowing about the lack of error bars on the GISS temperature graps (they are there but in green), they never put error bars on their work).

  23. #23 Bernard J.
    October 29, 2012

    Andy Revkin seems hellbent on demonstrating that he consciously wants to be a prat.

    As a corollary to the butterfly effect it’s quite plausible to conclude that this confluence of storms is very much a result of human interference with the climate. Such a conclusion is much easier when one is considering qualitative anomalies as well as or instead of quantitative anomalies.

    On the matter of the government response to the storm I suspect that there will be a few noises made about human-caused climate change, but no substantive action. The reason – it’s the mug public that will pay for the damage through government funds and insurance, so no signal will reach the rich, who have disproportionate influence on policy. Together with the current level of denialism that’s still being maintained, and the appeal to the myth of the American Dream, the cannon fodder will be content to maintain the status quo.

  24. #24 chek
    October 30, 2012

    ‘I can comment on is this prediction by Dr. Hansen:[who said] “The West Side Highway [which runs along the Hudson River] will be under water.” As you can clearly see in the Google Earth images, the West Side Highway remains dry and open. Sea level (at which the Hudson River at that point becomes) is not encroaching on the highway’ Anthony Watts

    West Side Highway flooded 29 Oct 2012

  25. #25 bill
    October 30, 2012

    Yes, this will be (yet another) challenging period for the passionate adherents of the type 2 error; but I’m sure they can rely on their invincible ignorance to sustain them through troubled times…

  26. #26 bill
    October 30, 2012

    Speaking of the invincibly ignorant: so, Mitt, still sneering about ‘saving people from rising seas’?

  27. #27 Lionel A
    October 30, 2012

    Well we know Watts is a jerk and clearly has little idea of how vulnerable to flooding Manhattan is. See my October 28, 2012 post here, and also mark this from Climate Denial Crock of the Week. Watch the Con Edison plant go out, and many of the surrounding lights. Then watch the ‘Bill Maher Warns Voters: If you Elect Romney…’ clip it may make you feel a little better. Not much because Romney winning is just too frightening a thought. We’ll see the likes of Watts, Bastardi and co. lionised and feted as heroes and true visionaries.

    I wonder how Rykers is getting on, or will get on. Perhaps Watts should take a ‘field trip’ or ‘long vacation’ there to report back.

    I see that Climate Crocks has a resident twit whom Greenfyer has well marked.

  28. #28 Lionel A
    October 30, 2012

    I note that at Climate Progress is news that James inhofe has been awarded the ‘Rubber Dodo’ award. I include my comment below:

    As the Latin Didus ineptus is now vacant perhaps it could be applied to those such as Inhofe, Sensenbrenner, Rohrabacher &co. who have misapplied so much hard sought knowledge about this life support system called planet Earth.

    And I hope that the ‘Rubber Dodo’ is made of a hard rubber (or better still something that really does biodegrade) so that when he is, and other recipients are, beaten over the head with it it actually hurts, just a bit.

    Perhaps they could be made to wear it using one of those criminal restraint electronic tags.

  29. #29 Dibble
    October 30, 2012

    Well ,the west side highway is now under about a meter of water (as Hansen predicted)….a bit earlier than predicted as well.

  30. #30 Wow
    October 30, 2012

    “And I hope that the ‘Rubber Dodo’ is made of a hard rubber ”

    For all the good it will do, he might as well shove it…

  31. #31 chek
    October 30, 2012

    Anthony Watts, being the coward that he unfailingly and unstintingly is, has a tried and trusted method of getting others to speak that which he’d rather not say himself because the record would be held against his overfed, smug, Republican butt at some notional point in the future.

    In this case he gets hapless anonymous dupe, the gentleman massuer (yes really, with all the climate science expertise that such entails) Willis Eschenbach to deny that there ever was a hurricane Sandy that hit New York and its environs in October 2012.

    The WUWT by Willis The Dupe tells us that: Sandy comprised “winds over 50 knots, and that’s a long ways from the 72 knots that marks a hurricane.”.
    On the other hand, when you’re a State Governor and actually responsible for protecting peoples lives: As released by the Office of the Governor GOVERNOR CUOMO ANNOUNCES RFK BRIDGE TO CLOSE NOW AS A RESULT OF 100 MPH WIND GUSTS Governor Andrew M. Cuomo announced at 7:30PM this evening the closing of the RFK Bridge as a result of 100 MPH wind gusts.
    things are taken a ;ittle bit more seriously than in la-la-denierland and the eminently disregardable opinions of the fat-bottomed Watts’ and his trusty male massuese.

  32. #32 Wow
    October 30, 2012

    “I didn’t shoot you with a rifle, I shot you with a handgun!”.

  33. #33 Wow
    October 30, 2012

    I guess the deniers will deny there’s any catastrophe, then, like they did for all those other weather events Totally Not Proven Due To AGW ™…

  34. #34 bill
    October 30, 2012

    So, are still going to go with climate change not being real, fellow republicans?

    Meghan McCain, daughter of the former GOP Presidential candidate, tweets.

    We’ll see. Having been the party of The Stupid – and not just on climate – for at least the duration of the 21st Century, returning to reality would be quite a wrench, and would involve shedding the toxic influence of the Tea Baggers and outright fruitcakes like Inhofe. Frankly I think that in that struggle The Stupid is more likely to prevail…

    I notice the Acolytes of Stupid are rather subdued – what’s the matter, boys, finally realised just how much damage a fatal mix of ignorance, hubris and Type 2 errors can cause?

    The future will be worse, you know, and all the while you’ll be able to know that in a very real sense you caused it

  35. #35 lord_sidcup
    October 31, 2012

    Speaking of cowards, Delingpole has pulled out of the Corby by-election where he was standing as an ‘anti-wind’ candidate. He claims victory in his joust with the wind turbines based on an unauthorised announcement by a junior government minister, but the real reason for his wthdrawal is that a poll of 1500 Corby voters only found 2 who were planning to vote for him.

  36. #36 bill
    October 31, 2012

    Delingpole ranks with Monckton when it comes to popularity in elections, then.

  37. #37 zoot
    October 31, 2012

    Just attempting to close a tag.

  38. #38 Bernard J.
    October 31, 2012

    Testing – tag closed?

  39. #39 chek
    October 31, 2012

    Ah, sorry folks, that might have been me.

  40. #40 chek
    October 31, 2012


  41. #41 bill
    November 1, 2012

    Yeah, I tried a ‘close italics’ earlier, too!

    Anyway; SKS on AGW and Hurricane Sandy.

    We’re still on an extraordinarily long dolt-free run. Could it be the weather? 😉

  42. #42 Lionel A
    November 1, 2012

    We’re still on an extraordinarily long dolt-free run. Could it be the weather?

    It could be that they have taken the group name Dale and gone over here, as Joe Romm would write, ‘Have a head vice handy’:

    2012 SkS News Bulletin #1: Hurricane Sandy & Climate Change.

  43. #43 bill
    November 1, 2012

    Haven’t we been plagued by ‘Dale’ before here? He’s the kind of character I find so irritating I got myself a comments policy speeding ticket at SkS, but I’m sure I’m not alone in thinking what I said about him and his ilk…

  44. #44 Bernard J.
    November 2, 2012


    The guy’s a Codling sycophant with a long history of concern trolling elsewhere, but with absolutely no sincerity or intent to accept science.

    I and several others at SkS challenged him a few weeks ago, whilst others seemed to sympathise with Dale, thinking that he had been misread, but a troll can’t keep his true colours hidden for too long. He petrifies in the bright light of fact – he’s done so here in the past, and he’s freezing now on SkS – so he’ll retreat to Codling’s soon and declare his ‘victory’.

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