Dammit.

I had planned on posting something else tomorrow that, because it had been posted elsewhere, would be minimal work. The reason, of course, is because it’s the 4th of July weekend and today is a federal holiday. Unfortunately, sometimes things happen that I cannot ignore, even though all sorts of other bloggers are writing about the same thing, because, well, it’s something that goes to the very core of what this blog stands for. As you know, one of the most frequently addressed topics (certainly in the top three, if not number one) is the antivaccine movement, its pseudoscience, and the threat it represents to public health through decreased vaccine uptake that leads to outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases. This danger was illustrated in a big way earlier this year when there was a large outbreak of the measles centered at Disneyland and attributed largely to the unvaccinated. Indeed, the Disneyland measles outbreak was arguably a pivotal event by itself because it’s impossible to imagine that SB 277 woud have even been introduced into the California legislature for consideration, much less passed by both chambers and signed into law by the governor. SB 277 is now the law of the land and has eliminated non-medical exemptions to school vaccine mandates in California. That’s right. California joined Mississippi and West Virginia as the only states that do not permit either religious or personal belief exemptions.

Unfortunately, I learned yesterday afternoon that something else had happened that drives home the fact that measles, contrary to what antivaccine apologists try to claim, is dangerous and can be deadly. Yesterday, a tragedy occurred. The Washington State Department of Health announced that a woman had died of unsuspected measles:

OLYMPIA – The death of a Clallam County woman this spring was due to an undetected measles infection that was discovered at autopsy.

The woman was most likely exposed to measles at a local medical facility during a recent outbreak in Clallam County. She was there at the same time as a person who later developed a rash and was contagious for measles. The woman had several other health conditions and was on medications that contributed to a suppressed immune system. She didn’t have some of the common symptoms of measles such as a rash, so the infection wasn’t discovered until after her death. The cause of death was pneumonia due to measles.

This is a horrible tragedy that I’ve been fearing for a long time, and it’s finally happened. The measles has claimed its first victim in the latest series of outbreaks. Indeed, this was the first measles death recorded in the US in 12 years.

I know what antivaccinationists are going to say. They’ll say that they’re sorry, that this is horrible. Then they’ll make excuses, adding that this woman was immunosuppressed and that’s why she died. They’ll claim that measles is a benign disease to almost everyone else. Of course, that’s only partially true. The mortality rate from measles in otherwise healthy individuals is quite low (approximately 1 to 2 per 1,000), but it’s not zero. Complications like pneumonia are by no means uncommon. Less common, but still to be feared, are complications such as encephalitis (again, approximately 1 in 1,000) or, even worse, the uniformly deadly complication of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE). This is a rare but fatal disease of the central nervous system that results from a measles virus infection acquired earlier in life, usually developing 7 to 10 years after a person has measles, even though the person seems to have fully recovered from the illness. Elsewhere in the world, measles is far deadlier. It’s also incredibly infectious, caused by one of the most easily transmissible viruses known to medical science.

But how could this woman have gotten so sick and died before it was realized that she had the measles? After all, the measles is nothing if not very recognizable, thanks to a characteristic rash caused by the disease. Here’s why:

It’s not surprising that the woman had no obvious measles symptoms; people with compromised immune systems often don’t develop a rash when infected with the virus, said Paul Offit, chief of infectious disease at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

The woman’s death was a preventable, but predictable, consequence of falling vaccination rates, said Peter Hotez, president of the Sabin Vaccine Institute and Texas Children’s Hospital Center for Vaccine Development in Houston.

As noted over at io9, rashless measles is rare, but far from unheard of. An overreview of measles warns:

Among immunocompromised persons, diffuse progressive pneumonitis caused by the measles virus is the most common cause of death [97–104]. These patients may first have typical measles with pneumonia, or they may have a nonspecific illness without rash followed by pneumonitis without a rash. In general, signs of pneumonitis develop in the 2 weeks after the first onset of symptoms [90, 96, 105]. Other patients have had reappearance of rash and pneumonitis after long intervals following “classical” measles [97, 106].

In other words, if you’re immunocompromised, you might not know you have the measles until you develop severe viral pneumonitis due to the measles virus. Make no mistake, in immunocompromised patients with the measles, pneumonitis is the most common cause of death.

This woman’s death was not tied to the Disneyland measles outbreak, but Clallam County had a small outbreak of measles earlier this year, which is not surprising given that Washington has been a hotbed of low vaccine uptake and antivaccine activity, to the point that the legislature moved to make it more difficult to obtain nonmedical exemptions. Clallam County has not been immune to parents declining to protect their children from vaccine-preventable diseases by claiming personal belief exemptions. Indeed, it ranked 30th out of 39 counties in Washington for in its rate of complete immunizations, with a compliance rate of 48%, meaning that over 50% of its schoolchildren are either undervaccinated or unvaccinated. In Clallam County, as few as 56% of schoolchildren in Port Townsend schools, while 89% of children in Port Angeles schools are completely up to date on their vaccines.

The bottom line is that there was an outbreak a few months ago in Clallam County, and, even though it wasn’t linked to the Disneyland measles outbreak (health officials report that it was a different strain of the measles), it almost certainly was linked to low vaccine uptake in the county. That is why the antivaccine movement is dangerous.

Not surprisingly, the usual suspects are quick to claim that low vaccine uptake had nothing to do with why this woman died, that this death was not preventable. First up, there’s Dr. Jay Gordon, our favorite “I’m not antivaccine” antivaccine pediatrician, responding to questions on Twitter:

Dr. Jay's Tweet

Yep, That’s Dr. Jay telling someone that this unfortunate woman’s death was not preventable? Not preventable? Nonsense! MMR is very effective at preventing measles, and if MMR uptake is adequately high, herd immunity will protect people who are unfortunate enough to be immunosuppressed. Dr. Jay is basically trying to pass the buck.

Meanwhile, Dr. Bob Sears, master of the antivaccine dog whistle, is furiously trying to distance the Disneyland measles outbreak from this woman’s death:

MEASLES DEATH NOT LINKED TO DISNEYLAND OUTBREAK, ACCORDING TO ABC NEWS AND WASHINGTON STATE HEALTH DEPT SPOKESMAN

Here is an update from ABC News. Again, our condolences to the family.
According to the last line in the story, this case was NOT linked to the Disneyland outbreak. We don’t yet know what that means. It may have been a measles strain from somewhere else? We don’t know yet. Vaccine strains can also be picked up by immunocompromised people, as this woman was. But be have no facts about that whatsoever.

Again, our heartfelt condolences to the family.

That’s nice. You can almost hear Dr. Bob backing away and saying, “Don’t blame me!.” Of course, it doesn’t matter that this outbreak was due to a different strain of measles virus. It really doesn’t. What matters is MMR uptake, which is lower than it should be in Clallam County. The reason it’s low is, at least in part, due to the fear mongering spread by Dr. Bob’s and Dr. Jay’s patients, some of whom are quite active in the antivaccine movement. (Remember, Dr. Jay was Jenny McCarthy’s son’s pediatrician back when she was transforming herself into a “warrior mother” going to war against vaccines.) It’s low because irresponsible pediatricians like Dr. Jay and Dr. Bob are sympathetic to the views of antivaccine parents, to the point where they not infrequently parrot antivaccine talking points. Indeed, Dr. Jay, relying on his “30 years of clinical experience,” has been known to insist that vaccines cause autism even as he admits that there’s no good evidence to support that belief.

If you want despicable, though, check out this comment by someone named Jen Glover Bishop:

If pneumonia was the cause of death then measles is a non issue. Pneumonia is a complication that can occur after the common cold in an immune compromised person. Anything would have led to pneumonia in a person like that. Life is not illness proof.

This is sort of true. Even if it were totally true, there’s one big difference between the common cold and the measles. We can’t prevent the common cold easily. We can prevent the measles. With a vaccine. And antivaccinationists do everything to deny and minimize their contribution to outbreaks. If you really want to see how low they can go, check out this comment by Christina Wright:

honestly, i call bullshit on this story. i’m sorry if it’s actually true, but its just way too vague and really sketchy that someone just so happens to die from measles as people are starting to wake up about all these bills being introduced. this is a scare tactic to whip the public back into shape. hello pharma pays $$$$$$ for marketing, thats all this is…a marketing strategy to set the tone of what’s to come.

Yes, it’s time for the conspiracy theories to come out. Same as it ever was. Of course, if conspiracy theories aren’t enough, then there’s always outright denying the importance of this story—and even that it’s legitimate—as Colleen Cron Oleksinski does:

With ALL due respect, why is this making national news? People die everyday without national recognition, why is this any different? By the way, Im not buying it either.

Oleksinski was answered by a chorus of Hallelujahs:

Setting the stage. They wasted no time. This is tragic absolutely. And what did they say, she passed in the spring? Did they wait this long to have an autopsy? Bring this out now, two days after CA signs BS277 and it is from a different state…perfect to infect the whole country with PANic and misinformation. Federal bill…I can’t wait.

And:

It’s making the news so that the sheep will once again become paralyzed with fear…and they won’t put up a fight when forced vaccinations come to their state.

And:

Getting the fear nice and deep to then roll out adult mandatory vaccines!

You get the idea. it’s not our fault, and this poor woman’s death is nothing more than a conspiracy by big pharma and the government to pave the way for jack booted thugs wielding syringes to force children and adults to be vaccinated. It’s a fantastical, paranoid delusion, but it’s what they believe, even at the expense of denying the human tragedy that’s just occurred.

This is what we’re up against.

Comments

  1. #1 Toto "the Rock"
    July 6, 2015

    ATTENTION CALIFORNIA PARENTS
    There is a silver lining in the BS277 passage.
    YOU NOW GET TO HOME SCHOOL and your kids will be the next NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS!

    “Nobel Prize Winners Hate School”
    http://learninfreedom.org/Nobel_hates_school.html

  2. #2 Narad
    July 6, 2015

    BTW, comment 200 isn’t me.

  3. #3 Toto "the Rock"
    July 6, 2015

    CALIFORNIA PRO-VAXXERS MUST DEMAND VACCINE EQUALITY!

    Why is it only Cali and Iowa have to do without LIFE-SAVING THIMEROSAL IN THEIR VACCINES?
    Their vaccines now COST MORE and are more DANGEROUS without it!
    MANDATORY VACCINES MUST HAVE THIMEROSAL!
    Liz Ditz, please work with your Assembly connections and GET THIS BILL SPONSORED NOW!
    ORAC, CAN YOU HELP US OUT HERE?
    Denise, Narad, CrisPy, justthestats, brian d., Krebiozen, herr doktor bimler
    I’m COUNTING ON YOUR HELP! You can use NLP lines like “THE TERMINATOR IS A THIMEROSAL HATER!” or “CALIFORNIA SCHEMIN’ to keep vaccines UNSAFE”
    Just use your imagination……

    FOR INSPIRATION:
    “California bans mercury in vaccine
    Wednesday, September 29, 2004
    Bob Miller ~ Southeast Missourian
    California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a bill Tuesday that will ban mercury in vaccines for young children and pregnant women.

    Missouri considered a similar bill earlier this year and it passed overwhelmingly in the House. However, the bill stalled in the Senate and was never brought to a vote.

    California is the second state to sign such a law. Iowa approved an anti-mercury bill earlier this year.

    The California law states that children under 3 years old shall not be given shots that contain more than trace amounts of thimerosal, including the flu shot. The law goes into effect on July 2, 2006.

    The preservative thimerosal is 50 percent mercury by weight. From the 1930s until 1999, it was used extensively for multidose vials to prevent viruses or bacteria from growing in the vaccines. Most vaccines today, with the notable exception of the flu shot, do not contain thimerosal after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention asked pharmaceutical companies to remove the substance. The request was based on what the CDC called “unclear” EVIDENCE at the time that MERCURY may be the CAUSE of an increase in AUTISM cases in the 1990s.”

    THIS MUST BE PASSED BEFORE KIDS GO BACK TO SCHOOL!

  4. #4 Toto "the Rock"
    July 6, 2015

    OOPS!
    Here’s the link to the Thimerosal Ban article:
    http://www.semissourian.com/story/147068.html

  5. #5 Delphine
    July 6, 2015

    They’ve secretly replaced the fine commentary Narad usually serves with colloidal Folgers crystals.

  6. #6 Narad
    July 6, 2015

    For posterity.

    Somebody’s luck is going to run out, Phildo, and I suspect that it’s not mine.

  7. #7 Bill Price
    July 6, 2015

    Gee, Narad, I’m disappointed. That #200 was such a great putdown of what the conspiracy mushmob say: at last those with unusable capslock keys..

  8. #8 capnkrunch
    July 7, 2015

    Narad@202

    BTW, comment 200 isn’t me.

    I assumed it was lowercase johnny/Phillip Hills given the similar distaste for proper capitalization. It’s been interesting to see his impersonation attempts evolve from what may have been a legitimate collision with Johnny but still differently capitalized, to using the same capitalization, to signing off the same, and now just outright impersonating others. I’m surprised (though maybe I shouldn’t be) that he still hasn’t figured out that his Johnny costume is missing a piece. Thank goodness he’s not quite smart enough to do some more sutble ‘nym hijacking and instead just spews the same garbage with a different name.

  9. #9 Narad
    July 7, 2015

    CERN is the doorway.

    Oh, look, was somebody too far in his cups not to tip his hand?

    I suppose the notion does require a reference frame, viz., “fixed stars,” though.*

    * Just the comment capture.

  10. #10 Johnny
    127.0.0.1
    July 7, 2015

    re:202

    Welcome to my world.

    The minions noted that a minor poster such as myself was not responsible for the silliness posted in my name. Trust me, nobody on the board thought that was you.

  11. #11 Murmur
    UK-ia
    July 7, 2015

    Re 200: “colloidal silver”? Isn’t it vampires it’s effective against? I’m sure I saw Wesley Snipes present a couple of documentaries about that…

  12. #12 ChrisP
    July 7, 2015

    Somehow I have managed to send my last comment into moderation with only one link in it.

  13. #13 Annie
    July 7, 2015

    Looks like they have a thread over on mothering about this.

    I guess the new strategy is to claim the reports of the man not being vaccinated with an effective measles vaccine are wrong/made up because the CDC site says that the last ineffective measles vaccine was given in the late 60s and not in the 70s when they say the partially vaccinated man in this outbreak received his vaccine.

    “Do people who received measles vaccine in the 1960s need to have their dose repeated?
    Not necessarily. People who have documentation of receiving LIVE measles vaccine in the 1960s do not need to be revaccinated. People who were vaccinated prior to 1968 with either inactivated (killed) measles vaccine or measles vaccine of unknown type should be revaccinated with at least one dose of live attenuated measles vaccine. This recommendation is intended to protect those who may have received killed measles vaccine, which was available in 1963-1967 and was not effective.” http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/faqs-dis-vac-risks.htm

    Thoughts? And do we know yet which person the woman who died came in contact with?

  14. #14 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    July 7, 2015

    colloidal silver”? Isn’t it vampires it’s effective against?

    Colloidal silver is for colloidal werewolves. For vampires, a homeopathic preparation of one true cross is efficacious, as is a large wooden stake if you catch the vampire asleep.

  15. #15 THEO
    July 7, 2015

    @ Chris Delphine Can you explain this?

    The average MMR coverage for the three countries fell below 90% after Dr. Wakefield’s infamous 1998 publication but started to recover slowly after 2001 until reaching over 90% coverage again by 2004. During the same time period, the average autism spectrum disorder prevalence in the United Kingdom, Norway and Sweden dropped substantially after birth year 1998 and gradually increased again after birth year 2000.

  16. #16 ChrisP
    July 7, 2015

    Annie, I linked to some of the news reports above. To get a go I d picture you almost need to read each one and piece the bits together.

    The salient details are that the woman caught measles at the clinic, as did the kindergartner. The latter caught them from the index patient. The other patients were the teenage sibling of the kindergartner and an older family member, who caught measles from the kindergartner. Finally there was a 43 year old friend of the index patient (patient 3), who caught measles from the index patient.

    I haven’t seen an age given for this patient, but news reports state he was vaccinated in the 1970s with a single dose of a vaccine that was used until 1971. He may have been vaccinated in Canada.

  17. #17 Gray Falcon
    July 7, 2015

    Mephistopheles O’Brien- Actually, there are several different varieties of vampire, with differing weaknesses. Some require having their mouths stuffed with garlic, with others, lemons are more effective. Vampire identification is an important skill in any effective slayer, otherwise the process becomes drawn out for everyone involved.

    THEO- Any references for your claims? I’m not just going to trust a man I don’t even know the name of to make medical decisions, you know.

  18. #18 shay
    July 7, 2015

    @Johnny #210:

    Hey, we can tell when it’s you posting. You’re coherent.

  19. #19 Helianthus
    July 7, 2015

    @ Gray Falcon

    Actually, there are several different varieties of vampire, with differing weaknesses.

    For one variety, you should hammer carrots into their ears before boiling their head. Must have been fun figuring out that one.

  20. #20 JGC
    July 7, 2015

    How exactly does one calculate the “average autism spectrum disorder prevalence in the United Kingdom, Norway and Sweden”, theo–does one average prevalence acrossthe three countries?

    If this value–however you calculate it, did in fact drop, what do you think was the reason for the decrease? We know it had nothing to do with the decline in MMR coverage following Wakefield’s publication of his fraudulent Lancet paper. (see http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/autism-vaccine-myth.html for s discussion of the multiple studies rebutting a causal association ebtween MMR vaccination and ASD’s).

  21. #21 Elliott
    July 7, 2015

    Whilel vampires are a bit OT, I can’t resist. Approved methods of vampire killing have been summarized in that respected scientific compendium “The Straight Dope.” Link is below for your reading enjoyment.

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/37/whats-the-best-way-to-kill-a-vampire

  22. #22 THEO
    July 7, 2015

    @JGC Maybe you can ask the authors of that published research and then ask the peers. I am no scientist I am merely citing a recent study in 2015. You can cite MMR study after MMR study all you want. I am more interested in the entire schedule vs a placebo control. That study would destroy the church of Modern Medicine. It appears that this study is as close as we are going to get to one. And the evidence is casual. Therefore this should immediately bring concern to the CDC. But we know that wont happen. Let the brain damage continue.

  23. #23 Helianthus
    July 7, 2015

    @ Elliott

    Thanks. It was an interesting read.
    My own source (cannot speak for Gray Falcon) was Carpe jugulum. I’m realizing now that PTerry must have have access to some material similar to the Straight Dope.
    Reality (sort of) is stranger than fiction.

  24. #24 Helianthus
    July 7, 2015

    @ Theo

    I am merely citing a recent study in 2015

    Actually, no, you didn’t. You forgot to provide a source.
    (usually, you do, I’ll admit freely)

  25. #25 JGC
    July 7, 2015

    Maybe you can ask the authors of that published research and then ask the peers.

    Which authors of what publication, Theo? You haven’t provided a citation allowing them to be identified.

    Please do so.

    I am more interested in the entire schedule vs a placebo control.

    Surely it’s been explained to you why such a study would be unethical? You can’t possibly be demanding ethical concerns be ignored and the study conducted anyway…right?

    Meanwhile you communicated what you think could be responsible for the claimed decrease in “average prevalence…etc.” following Wakefield’s 1998 Lancet publication, since a large body of evidence demonstrates it must ahve have been soemthing other than declining MMR vaccine uptake. Got any suggestions?

  26. #26 JGC
    July 7, 2015

    Sigh…should read “meanwhile you haven’t communicated what you think could be responsible”.

  27. #27 shay
    July 7, 2015

    Theo, why don’t you read this: No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study, by H. Honda, Y Shimuzu and M. Rutter.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15877763

  28. #28 Chris
    July 7, 2015

    Theo, simple explanation; Wakefield lied and then people died.

    If Wakefield were right there would have been a documented uptick of autism of autism in the USA during the 1970s and 1980s after it was introduced in 1971. Mostly because it is a bigger country than the UK using the vaccine for almost two decades longer.

    Now because of Wakefield’s lies, there are communities and schools where the vaccine rates locally are as low as 50%. So it can spread. Plus measles is so contagious vaccine rates need to be 95% to achieve community immunity.

    Oh, and Deisher tried to force the data to support her claim that autism rates went up with the 1978 change in the American MMR vaccine, except her dates are wrong, as is her use of the California data. In short: she is making it up, and she should be ashamed of herself. Especially with her latest move to blame the MMR vaccine for her her son’s cancer:
    http://soundchoice.s3.amazonaws.com/soundchoice/wp-content/uploads/Sept-2014-newsletter.pdf

  29. #29 herr doktor bimler
    July 7, 2015

    an interesting cascade of events happened after his publication look what science discovered?

    Ah, “Issues in Law and Medicine” — a crank barrel-bottom-scraping journal for theocratic f@cksticks to pimp out their theocratic opinions. Abortions cause breast cancer, vaccines are ground-up fetal cocktails, all the usual stupid in one convenient time-saving package.

  30. #30 doug
    July 7, 2015

    I am no scientist

    Well duh, as the kids say.

    And the evidence is casual.

    You mean unsubstantiated drivel? I prefer formal evidence.

  31. #31 Chris
    July 7, 2015

    Yes, a classic case of trying to use religion to demonize science and causing more deaths. Still it boils down to Wakefield lied because he had a wad UK taxpayer’s cash in the form of a legal fund waved in his face by a lawyer/homeopath, which brought back a disease causing disability and death around the planet.

    And apologists like Theo, Deisher, Jay Gordon, Bob Sears, John Stone, Cliff Miller, J.B. Handley, Jim Carrey and otther are all to blame for that young woman’s death and the impending death of the little boy in California with SSPE. They all have blood on their hands.

  32. #32 Phildo
    July 7, 2015

    ” CDC site says that the last ineffective measles vaccine was given in the late 60s and not in the 70s”

    “People who were vaccinated prior to 1968 with either inactivated (killed) measles vaccine or measles vaccine of unknown type should be revaccinated with at least one dose of live attenuated measles vaccine. This recommendation is intended to protect those who may have received killed measles vaccine, which was available in 1963-1967 and was not effective.”

    So all that utter gaboona spouted elsewhere on this chocolate logsphere about how vaccine introduced in the 60’s blah, was yet again more medical peer revwooof.

    Meeting Narad one day would probably be a good opportunity to bring him up to speed with what science actually is. I suppose it’s a game of PR and marketing – lives and truths matter little.

    Trying to cherry pick that this lady died from measles is about as plausible as medical peer review – you get the pizza you pay for.

  33. #33 justthestats
    July 7, 2015

    @THEO:

    You can cite MMR study after MMR study all you want. I am more interested in the entire schedule vs a placebo control. That study would destroy the church of Modern Medicine.

    So if there was an entire schedule vs placebo study, would you believe it?

  34. #34 Roger Kulp
    July 7, 2015

    Theo is asking for the same “Vaxed vs Unvaxed” study antis have been clamoring for since day one.

  35. #35 brian
    July 7, 2015

    I am more interested in the entire [vaccine] schedule vs a placebo control.

    It’s interesting that a recently-published neurodevelopmental study of vaccinated versus completely unvaccinated rhesus macaques hasn’t been all over Age of Autism, which featured accounts of the flawed earlier work that this extensive five-year study resoundingly refutes.

    Laura Hewitson, the senior author of the current paper (and the first author of the earlier paper that this paper throws into the dustbin,) can hardly be accused as a pharma shill; she was a plaintiff in the Omnibus Autism Proceeding and a colleague of Andrew Wakefield at Thoughtful House, where her husband served as Wakefield’s IT expert. The new work quite clearly shows that thimerosal, MMR, thimerosal plus MMR, the entire 1990s vaccine schedule, and an accelerated and relatively high-dose vaccine schedule were all unrelated to any neurodevelopmental changes in a five-year study in primates. [Environ Health Perspect. 2015 Feb 18.] The authors concluded,

    This comprehensive five-year, case-control study, which closely examined the effects of pediatric vaccines on early primate development, provided no consistent evidence of neurodevelopmental deficits or aberrant behavior in vaccinated animals.

    There you have it: “the entire schedule vs a placebo control” as well as MMR versus placebo, thimerosal versus placebo, and MMR plus thimerosal versus placebo.

    http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1408257/

  36. #36 Toto "the Rock"
    July 7, 2015

    #228
    “Plus measles is so contagious vaccine rates need to be 95% to achieve community immunity.”

    QUIT LYING CHRISPY

    According to SETTLED SCIENCE herd immunity is 55%. ONE vaccine / person……MEASLES ERADICATED by 1967.
    Anything else indicates VACCINE FAILURE.

    “Epidemiologic Basis for Eradication of Measles in 1967” (CDC)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1919891/pdf/pubhealthreporig00027-0069.pdf

    WHAT THEY NOW CALL MEASES, ISN’T.
    It was eradicated in 1967.

  37. #37 capnkrunch
    July 7, 2015

    THEO@222

    I am more interested in the entire schedule vs a placebo control.

    I never understood this. There are ethics issues either way you slice it. From the science point of view you are withholding livesaving treatments. From AV point of view you are deliberately poisoning children. I know ethics isn’t their strong suite but this is a rather clear cut case and has been explained over and over. Why won’t this one die?

  38. #38 Science Mom
    http://justthevax.blogspot.com/
    July 7, 2015

    I never understood this. There are ethics issues either way you slice it. From the science point of view you are withholding livesaving treatments. From AV point of view you are deliberately poisoning children. I know ethics isn’t their strong suite but this is a rather clear cut case and has been explained over and over. Why won’t this one die?

    This and to add to their inconsistencies, they simultaneously caterwaul about vaccines not tested together. Which is of course, completely false as a brief foray onto PubMed demonstrates that.

  39. #39 shay
    July 7, 2015

    “WHAT THEY NOW CALL MEASES, ISN’T.
    It was eradicated in 1967.”

    Except that isn’t what the article says.

  40. #40 shay
    July 7, 2015

    And just to add to the humor quotient, Toto’s own cite says that if the US wants to accomplish measles eradication by 1967, two of the essential components are routine vaccinations of infants, and vaccination on school entry.

  41. #41 Chris
    July 7, 2015

    Toto: “QUIT LYING CHRISPY”

    No, I am not lying. That is what the epidemiology says, and your all CAPS protest have no effect on the data:
    The Clinical Significance of Measles: A Review
    and
    Measles vaccine coverage and factors related to uncompleted vaccination among 18-month-old and 36-month-old children in Kyoto, Japan (read where almost 90 deaths due to reduced vaccination)

    And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer.

  42. #42 Narad
    July 7, 2015

    Toto: “QUIT LYING CHRISPY”

    One wonders if Tutu has fulfilled her promise to drive up to the CDC yet.

  43. #43 Chris
    July 7, 2015

    Yes, perhaps she can tell them how to do their jobs. It is obvious she will only be happy if there are more vaccine preventable deaths, since as a sadist she is not just satisfied with very sick kids.

  44. #44 Delphine
    July 7, 2015

    Toto, if not measles, then what is killing about 400 people per day, mostly in developing countries, and which greatly resembles measles? I’ve seen it with me own two eyes, mate. Looks like measles, walks like measles, kills like measles…

  45. #45 Roger Kulp
    July 7, 2015

    Toto needs to read some articles like this
    http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S514.full

    For molecular epidemiologic purposes, the genotype designations are considered the operational taxonomic unit, whereas related genotypes are grouped by clades. The WHO currently recognizes 8 clades, designated A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H. Within these clades, there are 23 recognized genotypes, designated A, B1, B2, B3, C1, C2, D1, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6, D7, D8, D9, D10, E, F, G1, G2, G3, H1, and H2, and 1 provisional genotype, d11. … The virologic surveillance data has shown that vaccination programs can reduce the number of co-circulating chains of transmission and eventually interrupt measles transmission. However, viruses are continually being introduced from external sources, and if the number of susceptible individuals increases, sustained transmission of the newly introduced viral genotype is possible. This results in what appears as a rapid change in the endemic genotype .
    snip.
    Another lesson learned is that, if large measles outbreaks are occurring anywhere in the world, the viruses are soon detected almost everywhere. Measles transmission can occur anywhere, and molecular techniques are often the only method for identifying the source of an outbreak or isolated case when standard case reporting fails to identify a source. Exposures can occur in airports or other areas frequented by international travelers, such as amusement parks, conferences, and sporting events.

    Or this
    http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2334/8/44

    Abstract
    Background

    In some populations, complete shifts in the genotype of the strain of measles circulating in the population have been observed, with given genotypes being replaced by new genotypes. Studies have postulated that such shifts may be attributable to differences between the fitness of the new and the old genotypes.
    Methods

    We developed a stochastic model of the transmission dynamics of measles, simulating the effects of different levels of migration, vaccination coverage and importation of new genotypes on patterns in the persistence and replacement of indigenous genotypes.
    Results

    The analyses illustrate that complete replacement in the genotype of the strain circulating in populations may occur because of chance. This occurred in >50% of model simulations, for levels of vaccination coverage and numbers of imported cases per year which are compatible with those observed in several Western European populations (>80% and >3 per million per year respectively) and for the given assumptions in the model.
    Conclusion

    The interpretation of genotypic data, which are increasingly being collected in surveillance programmes, needs to take account of the underlying vaccination coverage and the level of the importation rate of measles cases into the population.

    snip

    At low levels of vaccination coverage, all patterns in persistence and replacement were predicted to occur. However, pattern 4 (transmission of neither genotype persists during the study period) and pattern 1.1 (indigenous genotype persists but cases infected with the imported genotype are observed only rarely) were the most likely, occurring in 55% and 25% of simulations respectively if no individuals were vaccinated. The probability of pattern 4 occurring increased as the vaccine coverage increased, occurring in 90% of the simulations once the vaccination coverage was ≥60%, with rapid replacement of the indigenous genotype occurring in the remaining (10%) simulations.

  46. #46 Narad
    July 7, 2015

    As a side note, I do wonder who won the auction for annedachel.com. It seems to have gone for $17.

  47. #47 Toto "the Rock"
    July 7, 2015

    #245
    You wasted lots of space. Toto has read all of that (and posted it).
    IT IS IRRELEVANT. MEASLES WAS ERADICATED IN THE U.S. IN 2000. Any other non-indiginous measles virus is SOME OTHER COUNTRY’S FAULT. American susceptibles were protected by AMERICAN HERD IMMUNITY. Any breach of our borders by foreign measles virus IS THE FAULT OF SOME OTHER COUNTRY.

    YOU SHOULD READ THIS:
    “Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed the outcomes of the Greek referendum with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras on Monday, and expressed his support to the Greek people in overcoming the future difficulties in the country, Kremlin press service said.
    Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras (L) speaks with Russian President Vladimir Putin during a session of the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum 2015 (SPIEF 2015) in St. Petersburg, Russia, June 19, 2015”
    © REUTERS/ MIKHAIL KLIMENTYEV/RIA NOVOSTI/KREMLIN
    EU Should Be Applauding Russia for Helping Greece – Putin
    Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150706/1024267662.html#ixzz3fG9qYdK2

    PERHAPS YOU SHOULD CALL YOUR FINANCIAL ADVISOR.

  48. #48 Chi
    New Zealand
    July 7, 2015

    http://www.livingwhole.org/a-woman-died-from-measles-and-im-still-not-getting-vaccinated/

    That’s another example of an anti-vaxxer claiming that it WASN’T measles that killed her. I’m not sure if you’ve come across this particular anti-vaxxer but she has a penchant for faking her own credentials to make herself look more educated and thus more of an authority in the ‘vaccine debate’ (I use quote marks with the deepest scorn as all us sensible people know there’s no debate).

    She also goes on to say that if it WAS measles that cause her pneumonia then it was because her MMR failed her. Or because someone who recently GOT the MMR was shedding and that’s how she got infected.

    I really wish that shedding BS would just DIE. Unless you’re playing with someone’s (who has recently been vaccinated) poop, the risk of catching a virus via ‘shedding’ is next to impossible. Right?

  49. #49 Roger Kulp
    July 7, 2015

    Hopefully someone who can make a good,snarky satire site.That was $17.00 more than it was worth.

  50. #50 Toto "the Rock"
    July 7, 2015

    THANK YOU CRISPY!

    WHAT A FABULOUS PIECE OF NLP! you’re the PRO!
    I made copies for the gang so they can just CUT AND PASTE. THIS WILL SAVE US LOTS OF VALUABLE TIME. A true CLASSIC!

    “And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer.”

    “And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer.”

    “And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer.”

    “And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer.”

    “And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer.”

    “And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer.”

  51. #51 Toto "the Rock"
    July 7, 2015

    @Narad

    I included a drive-by of Poul Thorsen’s house…..NICE DIGS!
    I thought of how many sick children could have been helped WITH ALL OF THAT MONEY!

  52. #52 Toto "the Rock"
    July 7, 2015

    “if not measles, then what is killing about 400 people per day, mostly in developing countries”

    LACK OF SANITATION, LACK OF CLEAN WATER, LACK OF (HEALTHY) FOOD, LIONS, TIGERS, SNAKES, SPIDERS….
    Sorry, but GLOBAL CAR CRASH DEATHS beat out measles HANDS DOWN!
    “Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day.
    An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled.”
    http://asirt.org/Initiatives/Informing-Road-Users/Road-Safety-Facts/Road-Crash-Statistics

  53. #53 Toto "the Rock"
    July 7, 2015

    IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
    IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

    Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
    It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
    BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!

    Supported by Californian’s HOPING for some CHANGE to pay the BILLS.

    http://www.semissourian.com/story/147068.html
    “The outcome reflected the position of the World Health Organization that the small amount of thimerosal used in vaccines is safe. Even the American Academy of Pediatrics, which called for thimerosal to be removed from children’s vaccines over a decade ago, last year came out in favor of exempting the preservative from the mercury treaty.

    The exemption also stemmed from a widely shared economic judgment that the cost to make and distribute thimerosal-free vaccines would be steep and couldn’t be justified by the uncertain benefits.

    Richard Mwendandu, a delegate from Kenya, said African nations that expressed concerns about thimerosal agreed by the end that the preservative is still critical to vaccination programs aimed at reducing childhood deaths, and should be used until a good alternative is found. “There is no cost-effective and reliable alternative at this moment,” Mwendandu said.”
    http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/world_health_organization_approves_use_of_mercury_based_preservative_in_vaccines_partner/

    “Senator Elizabeth Warren: Vaccines are safe, effective & protect our children”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79UlXgoQwGk

  54. #55 Narad
    July 8, 2015

    I’m not sure if you’ve come across this particular anti-vaxxer but she has a penchant for faking her own credentials to make herself look more educated….

    Oh, she has a long and hilarious history. I mean, there’s this, but it further devolved into insanity when she issued some sort of threat* to the obscure GBCN group while the even more obscure “Jim Stone Forums” attempted to mobilize to defend her safety and revealed a bunch of personal details in the process (she had actually, to all appearances, taken her site or sites down to scrub all the references to herself as “Dr.” Megan).

    If you follow the “GCBN” link and pick “‘Dr.’ Megan Heimer’s lies, falsifications, & inaccuracies,” the very beginning has been redacted, but there’s 44 pages of comments. It’s a slog.

    * Because they didn’t link to her.

  55. #56 Helianthus
    July 8, 2015

    @ Chris

    Thanks! I liked the one about the car incident.
    Here is another Spudd article, with someone we know appearing in the comment section.

    http://thespudd.com/anonymous-hacks-big-pharma-releases-list-of-paid-pharma-shills/

  56. #57 herr doktor bimler
    July 8, 2015

    Toto: “QUIT LYING CHRISPY”

    At least Toto has abandoned the histrionic fabrications about having a “vaccine-damaged child”.

  57. #58 Helianthus
    July 8, 2015

    A story I read on the website Voice for Vaccines.
    Just to drive home that “immune compromised” isn’t the same as “on your deathbed”.

    http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/when-its-not-a-choice-measles-and-leukemia/

  58. #59 THEO
    July 8, 2015

    The argument that doing studies with unvaccinated groups is ‘unethical’ has gone on for far too long. It is the most hilariously unscientific argument I can imagine. Apparently, the rest of the time, science must stand up to ‘rigourous’ testing, RCTs, prospective studies, informed consent…. but in the case of mass vaccination, for some reason, the powers that be are allowed to throw all of that out of the window and just woo on. Guess what I want conclusive evidence before I polute my child. Fair?

    Unethical is your best answer? Is it unethical to inject almost 5000 mcg of aluminum into infants without long term safety studies to see exactly what happens vs a placebo control? Was it unethical to put mercury in vaccines for decades with no safety studies? medical ethics? really pharmaceutical company ethics?

    Tell me about the ethics of vaccinating premature babies that are not supposed to be breathing? increased seizures and
    Main Outcomes and Measures Incidence of sepsis evaluations, need for increased respiratory support, intubation, seizures, and death.

    http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2300376&utm_source=silverchair+information+systems&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=jamapediatrics%253aonlinefirst06%252f01%252f2015

    Medical ethics coming from an establishment that routinely kills people with properly prescribed RX drugs or overprescribed oxycontin that ultimately created the Heroin epidemic? Ethics? really wow are you folks delusional.

    For a blog to promote science based medicine its interesting that you all give science a pass when it comes to vaccines. Aren’t you curious to know conclusively how unvaccinated kids perform versus vaccinated? and what the REAL TRUE outcomes are. We have mountains of anecdotal evidence from parents, defecting pediatricans proving they do harm. We also have 100’s of studies proving they do harm. We have the same evidence that unvaccinated kids thrive and do not have allergies asthma autism ear infections etc. It will always be a mystery and thats ok with you? Its not Ok with me. I want to know. How can you people outright put your faith in pharmaceutical research? oh thats right your all trained in it and you don’t know any other way to think I forgot. Your like army soldiers.

    Its shocking to me that you are not curious. Furthermore there are at least 50,000 unvaxxed children running around this country that can be studied in depth by science that destroys your ethical argument if there was motivation. Parents don’t find it unethical to not vaccinate, find them do your research and report back. very simple to do if there was incentive sadly there isn’t.

    Sorry 6 monkeys is not a good study

  59. #60 Toto "the Rock"
    July 8, 2015

    TO PRO-THIMEROSAL BAN CALIFORNIANS:
    “And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in California. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer.” ChrisPy

    Why do you continue to keep LIFE-SAVING THIMEROSAL out of California vaccines?????????? ARE YOU JUST RACIST? DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO DRAIN THE TAXES OF CALIFORNIANS UNNECESSARILY?

    IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
    IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

    Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
    It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
    BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!
    Supported by Californian’s HOPING for some CHANGE to pay the BILLS.

    http://www.semissourian.com/story/147068.html
    “The outcome reflected the position of the World Health Organization that the small amount of thimerosal used in vaccines is safe. Even the American Academy of Pediatrics, which called for thimerosal to be removed from children’s vaccines over a decade ago, last year came out in favor of exempting the preservative from the mercury treaty.

    The exemption also stemmed from a widely shared economic judgment that the cost to make and distribute thimerosal-free vaccines would be steep and couldn’t be justified by the uncertain benefits.

    Richard Mwendandu, a delegate from Kenya, said African nations that expressed concerns about thimerosal agreed by the end that the preservative is still critical to vaccination programs aimed at reducing childhood deaths, and should be used until a good alternative is found. “There is no cost-effective and reliable alternative at this moment,” Mwendandu said.”
    http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/world_health_organization_approves_use_of_mercury_based_preservative_in_vaccines_partner/

    “Senator Elizabeth Warren: Vaccines are safe, effective & protect our children”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79UlXgoQwGk

  60. #61 Dangerous Bacon
    July 8, 2015

    For all of you breathlessly following the Southern Holistic Doctors Murder Conspiracy case, a local TV news outfit is busy connecting the dots, or at least Just Asking Questions:

    http://www.nbc-2.com/story/29485995/is-dr-sievers-homicide-tied-to-2-recent-doctors-deaths#.VZ00AFPiU5g

    A triumph of investigating reporting, I’m sure you will agree.

    Meantime, the sheriff overseeing the Sievers murder investigation says there’s “connectivity” involved (i.e. not a random homicide), but won’t say more.

    http://www.winknews.com/2015/07/07/lee-county-sheriff-scott-breaks-silence-on-sievers-murder-case/

    Nancy Grace is also on the case, I hear. Stay tuned for more exciting developments.

  61. #62 Toto "the Rock"
    July 8, 2015

    LIZ DITZ: Keep up the good work with our call campaign to the California assembly. Target the HEALTH COMMITTEE first.

    @herr doktor bimler
    Please use your lawyering skills to write up a “Bill to Overturn the California Thimerosal Ban.” Just post it here, and the rest of the gang can pitch it to their Assembly Person. THANKS!

    MILLIONS OF LIVES AND BACK POCKETS are at stake!

    Keep plugging our campaign NLP:
    IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
    IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

    Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
    It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
    BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!

  62. #63 Toto "the Rock"
    July 8, 2015

    #260
    “BOOKS AND MOVIES WILL BE WRITTEN ABOUT THE CRIME”
    The investigating officer knew Sievers.

    IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
    IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

    Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
    It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
    BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!

  63. #64 Krebiozen
    July 8, 2015

    THEO,

    The argument that doing studies with unvaccinated groups is ‘unethical’ has gone on for far too long. It is the most hilariously unscientific argument I can imagine.

    Would you be willing for your children and grandchildren to be part of the vaccinated arm of this hypothetical study? If not, the study wouldn’t be randomized and the results would be meaningless.

    Maybe you would like to explain the joke to the World Medical Association which developed the Declaration of Helsinki which is morally binding for every physician,and makes it very clear that such a study would be unethical:

    33. The benefits, risks, burdens and effectiveness of a new intervention must be tested against those of the best proven intervention(s), except in the following circumstances:
    Where no proven intervention exists, the use of placebo, or no intervention, is acceptable; or
    Where for compelling and scientifically sound methodological reasons the use of any intervention less effective than the best proven one, the use of placebo, or no intervention is necessary to determine the efficacy or safety of an intervention
    and the patients who receive any intervention less effective than the best proven one, placebo, or no intervention will not be subject to additional risks of serious or irreversible harm as a result of not receiving the best proven intervention.
    Extreme care must be taken to avoid abuse of this option.

    Since vaccines are proven interventions, there are no compelling and scientifically sound methodological reasons to doubt their safety, and not vaccinating a child puts it at risk of serious or irreversible harm, the sort of study you suggest would not and should not be approved by any IRB or ethics committee anywhere in the world.

  64. #65 Chris
    July 8, 2015

    THEO: “Ethics? really wow are you folks delusional.”

    We are not the ones championing the deaths from vaccine preventable diseases and clamoring for more like you are. Due to the lies from Wakefield and his fan girls like you real people have died. You must be so proud with those efforts from the woman who depended on community immunity to measles that your friends made sure did not exist to the little boy who died from diphtheria in Spain.

    Keep it up, I am sure the death count will continue to rise because of you and your friends.

  65. #66 Delphine
    stiff little fingers
    July 8, 2015

    LACK OF SANITATION, LACK OF CLEAN WATER, LACK OF (HEALTHY) FOOD, LIONS, TIGERS, SNAKES, SPIDERS….
    Sorry, but GLOBAL CAR CRASH DEATHS beat out measles HANDS DOWN!
    “Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day.
    An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled.”
    http://asirt.org/Initiatives/Informing-Road-Users/Road-Safety-Facts/Road-Crash-Statistics

    Yes, lack of potable water, undernutrition, and car crashes all kill people. So does measles, about 400 people a day, on average.

    My parents cared for many people with measles, some of whom did not survive. You really have no idea what you’re talking about, and like every single anti-vaxxer with whom I’ve crossed paths, your privilege makes me ill.

  66. #67 Delphine
    July 8, 2015

    Its shocking to me that you are not curious.

    I have ceased to be shocked by the lack of intellectual curiosity routinely displayed by you and your ilk.

  67. #68 JGC
    July 8, 2015

    Is it unethical to inject almost 5000 mcg of aluminum into infants without long term safety studies to see exactly what happens vs a placebo control?

    Given the existence of an extremely large body of evidence accurately characterizing the toxicity of aluminum salts, no: it’s not.

    Was it unethical to put mercury in vaccines for decades with no safety studies?

    No one did this, however. Thimerosal was included in some vaccine formulations as a preservative (note at the time that thd FDA elected to remove thimerosal it was found in only 2% of all vaccines marketed in the US) but thimerosal and mercury are not the same thing.

    And again, given that at the time thimerosal was being incorporated into vaccine formulations there already existed a large body of evidence characterizing its toxicity (going back to Powell an Jamieson in 1931) yes: it’s use was entirely ethical.

    Tell me about the ethics of vaccinating premature babies that are not supposed to be breathing?

    By what rational argument is it be unethical to vaccinate premature babies, especailly givent aht teh study you linked to yourself concluded “Our findings provide no evidence to suggest that physicians should not use combination vaccines in ELBW infants”?

    Aren’t you curious to know conclusively how unvaccinated kids perform versus vaccinated?

    It isn’t necesary to perform unethical prospective vaxed versus unvaxed studies to know this conclusively–large scale retrospective epidemiologic studies are demonstrably capable of providing this information. And guess what? They have.

    We have mountains of anecdotal evidence from parents, defecting pediatricans proving they do harm.

    The plural of ‘anecdote’ isn’t ‘evidence’: if you believe these anecdotes are sufficient to demonstrate vaccines are unsafe, may I conclude you also beleive that extraterrestrials piloting faster-than-light vehicles visit the earth and routinely abduct humans, taking them aboard their craft for forced medical examinations (which seem to involve an all-but-obligatory protoscopic examinaton)? After all, there are similar ‘mountains’ of anecdotal evidence supporting this occurs.

    If not–if you don’t believe alien abductions routinely occur, or even if you are not sure one way or the other–could you explain to me the rational basis by which you decide which “mountains of anecdotes” you’ll accept as constituting ‘evidence’ and which mountains you’ll instead reject?

    Furthermore there are at least 50,000 unvaxxed children running around this country that can be studied in depth by science that destroys your ethical argument if there was motivation.

    Ignoring for the moment the statistical power enrolling every one of these children into a study could acheive–I think we’d be able to detect whether or not a threefold or greater risk of injury associated with vaccines existed, which is demonstrably orders of magnitude higher than the increase in large scale retrospective sudies and post marketing surveillance is capable of detecting–doing so would only a small-scale retrospective study, and not the unethical prospective vaxed versus un-vaxed study anti-vaxers are calling for.

  68. #69 Dangerous Bacon
    July 8, 2015

    “Is it unethical to inject almost 5000 mcg of aluminum into infants”

    That’s 5,000,000 nanograms of aluminum!!!!! FIVE MILLION nanograms!!!!!!!!

    Won’t somebody think of the children??!?!?!?

  69. #70 Helianthus
    July 8, 2015

    Would you be willing for your children and grandchildren to be part of the vaccinated arm of this hypothetical study?

    To expand, paraphrasing a commenter on another blog:

    a vax vs unvax double-blinded study means picking a few 10,000 children, vaccinate half of them, inject a saline solution to the other half, and then sit back and expect that soon, you will be watching them suffer and, for some of them, die – either from preventable diseases, or from the chemicalz in vaccines, depending on your side.
    That’s a bit harsh, just to prove a point, don’t you think?

    @ Theo

    Furthermore there are at least 50,000 unvaxxed children running around this country that can be studied in depth by science that destroys your ethical argument if there was motivation.

    Ah, now you are not talking anymore about a direct comparison, but about a retrospective study (hope I got the wording right, I’m not epidemiologist).
    Orac discussed it more a length here.

    This type of study have some other types of issues: you are not comparing people from the same population anymore, the main difference being vaccinated or not, but people from two populations. You want to be sure to match the people you enroll on each side – easily done when you pick a relatively homogenous population and split it in two, much more difficult when you start with people from all around the country. It may bias the results a bit if one group has a lot of people living near a coal plant, or the other group is getting twice as much sun exposure, for a simple example.
    Anyway, such studies have been done, I believe. Never to the satisfaction of the core antivax crowd.
    There was a phone interview done by an antivax group (Generation Rescue). They stopped midway, the numbers were showing more health issues among the non-vaccinated, including autism.

    We have the same evidence that unvaccinated kids thrive and do not have allergies asthma autism ear infections etc

    I’m sorry, but citation needed on this one. If you had conclusive studies to support this, I would be anti-vaxer as well.
    Heck, “do not have ear infection”? So the unvaccinated little girl who died recently of ear infection doesn’t count?

  70. #71 Mrs Woo
    under a thirty pound cat
    July 8, 2015

    @Krebiozen – I was going to ask THEO the same thing – were they willing to volunteer their precious snowflake for that study having no idea if they were were dosed with real vaccine or saline solution?

  71. #72 justthestats
    July 8, 2015

    @THEO:

    Sorry 6 monkeys is not a good study

    I suggest you read it again, this time paying enough attention to at least get the number of subjects correct.

  72. #73 Narad
    July 8, 2015

    Ignoring for the moment the statistical power enrolling every one of these children into a study could acheive

    Cue Prometheus.

  73. #74 Toto "the Rock"
    Out of Africa
    July 8, 2015

    #266
    “My parents cared for many people with measles, some of whom did not survive.”

    If your parents were doctors, I WOULD NEVER LET THEM NEAR MY KIDS. The odds aren’t good.

    I GUESS I CAN COUNT ON YOU FOR MY NEW CAMPAIGN:

    IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
    IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!
    Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
    It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
    BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!

    Please call Assembly members NOW!

  74. #75 Toto "the Rock"
    July 8, 2015

    #268
    CR*P ALERT! CRA* ALERT!
    “No one did this, however. Thimerosal was included in some vaccine formulations as a preservative (note at the time that thd FDA elected to remove thimerosal it was found in only 2% of all vaccines marketed in the US) but thimerosal and mercury are not the same thing.

    And again, given that at the time thimerosal was being incorporated into vaccine formulations there already existed a large body of evidence characterizing its toxicity (going back to Powell an Jamieson in 1931) yes: it’s use was entirely ethical.”

    HA HA HA HA HA HA! THIMEROSAL HAS NEVER BEEN BANNED FROM VACCINES EXCEPT IN CALIFORNIA and Iowa.
    Bill Gates Foundation thinks it’s GREAT! SO DO THE OTHER 48 STATES!
    THIMEROSAL FILLED MULTIDOSE VIALS IS ALL THEY SEND TO AFRICA!

    Why do you continue to keep LIFE-SAVING THIMEROSAL out of California vaccines?????????? ARE YOU JUST RACIST? DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO DRAIN THE TAXES OF CALIFORNIANS UNNECESSARILY?

    IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
    IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

    Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
    It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
    BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!
    Supported by Californian’s HOPING for some CHANGE to pay the BILLS.

    http://www.semissourian.com/story/147068.html
    “The exemption also stemmed from a widely shared economic judgment that the cost to make and distribute thimerosal-free vaccines would be steep and couldn’t be justified by the uncertain benefits.

    “Richard Mwendandu, a delegate from Kenya, said African nations that expressed concerns about thimerosal agreed by the end that the preservative is still critical to vaccination programs aimed at reducing childhood deaths, and should be used until a good alternative is found. “There is no cost-effective and reliable alternative at this moment,” Mwendandu said.”
    http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/world_health_organization_approves_use_of_mercury_based_preservative_in_vaccines_partner/

    “Senator Elizabeth Warren: Vaccines are safe, effective & protect our children”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79UlXgoQwGk

  75. #76 Toto "the Rock"
    July 8, 2015

    Once we OVERTURN the CALIFORNIA THIMEROSAL BAN,
    Here’s a DOCTOR SAFETY TIP:
    “Mercury in the form of thimerosal is included as a preservative in multi-dose vials. If vials are not shaken thoroughly between each dose withdrawal, the last doses will contain large amounts of mercury. This is because mercury is heavier than water and sinks to the bottom of the vials.”
    IT’S EASY! Just remember SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE your VIALS!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3fZuW-aJsg

    IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
    IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

    Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
    It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
    BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!
    Supported by Californian’s HOPING for some CHANGE to pay the BILLS.

  76. #77 Delphine
    July 9, 2015

    #266
    “My parents cared for many people with measles, some of whom did not survive.”

    If your parents were doctors, I WOULD NEVER LET THEM NEAR MY KIDS. The odds aren’t good.

    I GUESS I CAN COUNT ON YOU FOR MY NEW CAMPAIGN:

    IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
    IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

    Right, fuck ’em, the dying Aren’t Like Us. You do know Africa is an entire continent, right, filled with diverse groups of people……..never mind.

    When my parents practiced in a developed context, they wouldn’t have taken your kids as patients anyway, so no worries on that count, Toto.

    Here’s an idea. Why don’t you fuck off. And when you get there, fuck off from there as well. Then fuck off some more. Keep fucking off until you get back here. And then wait until someone tells you to fuck off again. Won’t take long, trust.

  77. #78 Theo S Dzielak
    Seattle
    July 10, 2015

    I have been involved in an ongoing online debate. This was tossed my way as proof of the “science” supporting ant-vacer’s claims. Does anyone know about this group? http://www.cmsri.org/

  78. […] In other words, if parents believe, despite all evidence to the contrary, that vaccines cause autism and that autism is worse than measles, it is only American to give them to right to make medical decisions based on these falsehoods. The right to refuse vaccines for your child is the right to believe fear-mongering about autism, to believe that autism is the worst possible outcome while also believing that measles isn’t a big deal, to deny that globally, 17 people die from measles every hour every day. It is to think that those measles deaths happen to the other people far away and to choose to believe that the woman in Washington state who just lost her life to measles is part of some conspiracy. […]

  79. #80 kfunk937
    July 13, 2015

    @TheoSD #278 –

    The About Us tab at your link reveals Claire Dwoskin, an NVIC board member, is the founder. If that’s not enough red flag, Seneff and Shaw serve on the so-called Scientific Advosory Board. Icing on the cake? Their evidence seems to be limited to youtube videos. Run any of these names through the search thingy at the top-right of any page here . . . or mebbe just run.

    In other words, they’re quacks and cranks, albeit rich ones who can apparently afford a decent web designer to give it that sciency look.

    If the person with whom you’re engaged references a specific study (as opposed to the youtube links on the site), chances are it’s been discussed/dismantled, here and/or elsewhere. I’d ask ’em to bring it, myself.

  80. #81 kfunk937
    July 13, 2015

    Oh, carp. That would be “Advisory.”

  81. #82 THEO
    July 13, 2015

    While doing the study we want has it challenges it is the only way to know for sure exactly what the vaccines are doing and how they are impacting health outcomes long term. And all of you know it no matter what bullshit you post here. What if measles infection and optimal nutrition levels were studied in a cohort and they discovered significantly lower cancer rates, allergies, cardiovascular disease etc?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26122188

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9824838

    Here’s a question for you……do vaccines strengthen the immune system yes or no?

    “science gets us to approximations of truth that are falsifiable, not truth itself. Dogma is settled, not science.”

  82. #83 Gray Falcon
    July 14, 2015

    Of course, those studies do not include those who died or suffered permanent sequelae from those diseases.

    Also, “strengthen the immune system” is a nonsense phrase.

  83. #84 Gray Falcon
    July 14, 2015

    I’d just like to point out, once again, THEO’s posting PubMed studies that work on the principle of “correlation is causation”. Anyone have any answer to it?

  84. #85 herr doktor bimler
    July 14, 2015

    In other words, they’re quacks and cranks, albeit rich ones who can apparently afford a decent web designer to give it that sciency look.

    I dunno, the vibe I got from the CMSRI website was more “slick alt-heatlh scam”. All the upmarket sekrit-cancer-cure sites these days are built around that kind of dissolving succession of images.

  85. #86 JGC
    July 14, 2015

    While doing the study we want has it challenges it is the only way to know for sure exactly what the vaccines are doing and how they are impacting health outcomes long term.

    No, it’s not the only way. Other ways (large scale retrospective epidmiologic studies, post-marketing surveillance via programs like the Vaccine Safety Datalink etc.) which do not unethically place subjects at risk which are capable of generating the same information not only exist but have been doing just that for decades.

  86. […] te measles, but even so in the case of immunosuppression they can lose their immunity. Indeed, the first death from measles in years occurred in just such an […]

  87. #88 Canonical
    July 14, 2015

    Yup, stuff like this is what scares me. I have sarcoidosis (no, nobody else’s ever heard of it, either). I’m on an immunosuppressant and can’t get vaccinations. Since the problem is centered in my lungs, getting the measles can easily kill me. So could whooping cough which is currently at “outbreak level” in the county just south of mine.

  88. #89 Toto "the Rock"
    July 15, 2015

    “Since the problem is centered in my lungs, getting the measles can easily kill me. So could whooping cough which is currently at “outbreak level” in the county just south of mine.”
    DON’T DRIVE! MUCH GREATER RISK.

  89. #90 Helianthus
    France
    July 15, 2015

    @ Theo

    What if measles infection and optimal nutrition levels were studied in a cohort and they discovered significantly lower cancer rates, allergies, cardiovascular disease etc?

    Eh, there is progress.
    On a previous thread, you asserted that non-vaccinated people do have less cancer, allergies, cardiovascular disease, etc. You included ear infections in the list.

    When I asked you for some source backing your assertion, and pointed to a previous thread discussing the death of a non-vaccinated little girl due to an untreated ear infection, you disappeared.

    Glad to see you are now just asking questions.

    ———————————
    @ Canonical

    I have sarcoidosis (no, nobody else’s ever heard of it, either)

    I did heard about it, from some colleagues in biology/immunology. It’s a nasty bugger, alright.
    There is some scientific research going on, but there could be more.
    In my country, there are a few associations of patients and their families for support and information sharing. These associations do also some good by increasing the general public’s awareness of the disease. I don’t know if you have access to similar groups where you live.

  90. #91 Canonical
    July 15, 2015

    At the risk of feeding the (local) troll:

    Dearest Toto,

    Get stuffed. My least risk from automotive accident is: injury. My least risk from whooping cough and/or measles is dying. Thanks ever-so.

    Love and kisses.

  91. #92 Canonical
    July 15, 2015

    @ Helianthus #290: My apologies for the double-post. I’ll be honest: I’d never heard of sarcoidosis ’til I got it. I’m lucky–getting it in the lungs is the least nasty. Since it’s genetically-based and doesn’t kill you outright (as long as herd-immunity doesn’t let you down) and doesn’t affect a huge number of people, it’s pretty low on the research radar. Thanks for the words of support! I’ve found a few groups on the ‘net and am on Prednisone until whenever, but there are worse things to have, gods know.

  92. #94 MI Dawn
    July 17, 2015

    Hey, THEO…that’s an amazing article. In a country where autism diagnosis were rare because physicians didn’t know how to diagnosis it, it is now being properly diagnosed so the rates are becoming more equivalent with 1st world countries. But Vietnam doesn’t have the infrastructure in place to help autistic people yet.

    Your point? There are not MORE autistic people in Vietnam, there are more people receiving the accurate diagnosis they need for help.

  93. #95 Theo
    July 17, 2015

    Keep believing that explanation. We’re not buying it. If that were the case we would have studies of adults too. Oh they don’t exist that’s right. Children with brain damage has never been the norm. Don’t be a fool. I keep forgetting your all medical establishment people. mere soldiers getting your orders and marching papers

  94. #96 Chris
    July 17, 2015

    “Children with brain damage has never been the norm.”

    You mean with the return of measles? We try to prevent that with the very safe MMR.

  95. #97 Chris
    July 17, 2015

    Of course the reason you did not see the kids damaged by measles, congenital rubella syndrome, HIB, etc was that they were locked up in institutions like Willowbrook. Only a cruel heartless and clueless person would want those diseases and the institutions to come back.

  96. #98 Theo
    July 17, 2015

    Measles only does damage in malnourished people. Extremeley rare in Developed countries with clean water sanitation and nutrition. educate yourself this is well known but not in the echo chamber of propoganda you listen too.

  97. #99 Delphine
    time for moderation again
    July 17, 2015

    Measles only does damage in malnourished people. Extremeley rare in Developed countries with clean water sanitation and nutrition. educate yourself this is well known but not in the echo chamber of propoganda you listen too.

    And who fucking cares about them, right? Fuck off you pissant. Just fuck off.

  98. #100 Delphine
    July 17, 2015

    Seriously you’re just an asshole. Who cares as long as it’s not you and yours with your kale and your Leap Pads and Honda Pilots. Fuck off, asshole.

  99. #101 Chris
    July 17, 2015

    Oh really? Then why is there a little boy dying of SSPE in California? How was Olivia Dahl malnourished? Was the outbreak of over a thousand cases of measles in Wales from a breakdown of sanitation?

    Are you telling us that France, which had several deaths from measles is not a developed country? Did you say that Japan has issues with “clean water sanitation and nutrition:

    According to an infectious disease surveillance (2000), total measles cases were estimated to be from 180,000 to 210,000, and total deaths were estimated to be 88 [11,12]. Measles cases are most frequently observed among non-immunized children, particularly between 12 to 24 months.

    Sure, educate us. Explain how measles is benign in Japan, France, and elsewhere. Until then the blood of those deaths are on your hands.

  100. #102 shay
    July 18, 2015

    “measles only does damage in undernourished people.”

    Tell that to my youngest brother. Make sure he has his hearing aids in first.

  101. #103 Narad
    July 18, 2015

    I have sarcoidosis (no, nobody else’s ever heard of it, either)

    WTF? Nobody’s ever watched House?

  102. #104 capnkrunch
    July 18, 2015

    Theo@295

    Children with brain damage has never been the norm.

    It shpuldn’t surprise me at this point but wow! Despite the antivax movement claiming to be advocate for autistics you guys sure say some awful things about them. I pity the autistic child whose AV parent refers to him/her as brain damaged.

  103. #105 Vicki
    July 18, 2015

    Another angle on that quote from Theo @295:

    So, why do he and other anti-vax campaigners want to increase the number of children with brain damage? In case he’s forgotten already, measles sometimes causes brain damage.

  104. #106 novalox
    July 18, 2015

    @theo

    Thanks for proving that you are a bigot for your frank dismissal of other ethnicities. I am sure the refugees who my family supported would love to hear your insensitive comments.

  105. #107 Chris
    July 18, 2015

    MI Dawn: “There are not MORE autistic people in Vietnam, there are more people receiving the accurate diagnosis they need for help.”

    After finally convincing dear hubby* that son in mid-twenties was not okay, and he was not malingering about finding a job: I got to work by getting a long overdue diagnosis. It turns out he as Autism Level II (there are three levels, from totally non-functional, to very high functioning… my kid needs supports).

    I was assured many times in the early 1990s that he was not autistic. And as I go to parent meetings and lectures I am having interesting conversations to others who also have the same experience. I am amazed how many have children born before the early 1990s that are now diagnosed with autism, but not when they were kids.

    Doesn’t help they all have at least normal intelligence. This means they get no services from our states Developmental Disabilities Administration nor from The Arc (though I have gone to informal parent gatherings from the latter, where I met one couple whose daughter is in her thirties).

    * What was great was that dear hubby was able to attend the feedback appointment with on of the psychologists. She explained everything from the differences between DSM IV and DSM V. She also said she found the early 1990s records interesting since the science has changed greatly in the just the last ten years. This really helped get hubby on board. Though I was aghast when as we were returning to the car he pointed out our son’s odd pacing as he waited for us by the car. I did tell hubby that I have known about that behavior for years, and was surprised he just noticed. Le sigh.

    Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

  106. #108 Robert L Bell
    July 19, 2015

    Thanks, Rock.

    Now I have seen everything: a Fukushima crackpot, dead threading an unrelated article to push his theory that the Jews are using vaccines to spread autism.

    It’s true what they say, no matter how bad you think it is it can always get worse.

  107. #109 Mrs Woo
    July 19, 2015

    Money has been scarce, but when I can afford it, I want a copy of Shrinks: The Untold Story of Psychiatry. The interview with the author that I read in the New York Times suggests that it might make it much easier for me to defend increased autistic diagnoses around the world.

  108. #110 Roger Kulp
    July 19, 2015

    Chris@307

    I got to work by getting a long overdue diagnosis. It turns out he as Autism Level II (there are three levels, from totally non-functional, to very high functioning… my kid needs supports).

    She also said she found the early 1990s records interesting since the science has changed greatly in the just the last ten years.

    Well,yeah,of course it has.

    One big thing that has changed in the last ten years, is the emergence of a completely new subtype of autism,which I may have been the first adult diagnosed with,A type of autism that is both largely inherited or genetic,and treatable.A type of autism that involves novel ideas like folate receptor autoantibodies.and/or genetic defects in multiple metabolic pathways.None of which was really known when Andrew Wakefield published his abomination of a study.But it would explain a decent size chunk of the autism with regressions and complex medical issues the antivaxers are always complaining about.

    If the posters here are any indication,most antivaxers can’t seem to grasp the simple idea that science moves on,and moves on in ways nobody ever thought possible.The usual antivaxer denial that their perfect snowflakes might have been born damaged or disabled might also play into this.

    Chris,I was told about these three levels of autism,back in 2008,when I was rediagnosed.I was told three was the most severe,and that I was a 2.5 because of my learning disabilities,behavioral issues,and general deficits in daily functioning.But then again,these metabolic disorders usually only show up in autism that is nonverbal or lower functioning.

  109. #112 Theo
    July 21, 2015

    I agree there is a risk of damage from measles however the probability is extremely low in 2015 with our new found understanding of the microbiome and nutritional support for the innate immune system like vit d 3. And just a basic multivitamin This new scientific understanding blows a hole in vaccine theory. Furthermore we recently found out that the brain has an immune system? For the love of God!!!!! modern medicine cant even get human anatomy right and you want me to trust pharma injecting cluster bombs of aluminum and carcinogenic formaldayde into my kid? And they don’t know how it effects the brain? No chance and no I don’t care about other people’s kids and herd immunity I don’t make health care decisions on what’s good for the village. GFY! This America not China

    Read how much we don’t really know about the brain …….http://kellybroganmd.com/snippet/the-brain-does-have-an-immune-system/

    go ahead with your never ending toxic medical interventions from cradle to grave and your fear of measles. Enjoy life long food allergies asthma, auto immune etc and never ending trips to the doctor. For me and my family we will forge ahead embracing the holistic approach. Understanding the breakthrough science of epi genetics, detoxification, micro biome hydration and optimal nutrition etc Avoiding all pharmaceutical products, GMO, antibiotics, vaccines and surgeries like the plague unless it’s an emergency. This is the new paradigm! Modern medicine is dying….. Holism is on the rise. Don’t be the last nimrod and wait until it’s too late for you and your family. It’s self evident if you know where to look and what research to trust. However you folks are cleRly under the pharmaceutical spell, that’s sad

  110. #113 Mephistopheles O'Brien
    July 21, 2015

    @Theo,

    I agree there is a risk of damage from measles however the probability is extremely low in 2015

    How low is extremely low?

    with our new found understanding of the microbiome and nutritional support for the innate immune system like vit d 3. And just a basic multivitamin This new scientific understanding blows a hole in vaccine theory.

    Please be specific about what you’re talking about. What changes to the microbiome will make people immune to vaccine peventable diseases like, say, polio? What benefits will vitamins provide for influenza? Inquiring minds want to know.

    modern medicine cant even get human anatomy right

    Please be specific. What does modern medicine get wrong about human anatomy. Thanks.

  111. #114 Chris
    July 22, 2015

    Theo: “I agree there is a risk of damage from measles however the probability is extremely low in 2015 with our new found understanding of the microbiome and nutritional support for the innate immune system like vit d 3”

    The microbiome mostly has to do with bacteria in the intestines, not a virus that attacks the brain and/or lungs.

    For every measles death in the first world, their blood is on your hand due to your ignorance, Theo. Deal with it.

  112. #115 TBruce
    July 22, 2015

    So, why do he and other anti-vax campaigners want to increase the number of children with brain damage? In case he’s forgotten already, measles sometimes causes brain damage.

    They feel lonely.

  113. #116 Helianthus
    France
    July 22, 2015

    @ Theo

    It’s self evident if you know where to look and what research to trust.

    We did ask you, repeatedly, for where to look about a link between being vaccinated and high incidence of allergy, asthma, etc (and let’s not forget ear infection was on your list – BTW, remember the little unvaccinated girl who died from this?).

    So far, you provided nothing relevant.

    I retract my previous comment about you usually providing links. I must have confused you with some other commenter, someone more interested in an honest debate.

    This new scientific understanding blows a hole in vaccine theory

    Not really. “Vaccine theory” is about inducing immunity by injecting a weakened/dead form of a pathogen.
    Discovering that the immune system is more complex than previously thought doesn’t put vaccine in jeopardy. The effect of injecting dead pathogens is still the same.

    Oh, and “epi genetic” is not “whatever I say”. These are specific mechanisms by which information could be kept without involving the DNA sequence itself.

    No chance and no I don’t care about other people’s kids and herd immunity

    So on top of knowing nothing, you are an egoistical @sshole. Glad this was cleared up.

  114. #117 Krebiozen
    July 22, 2015

    THEO,

    This is the new paradigm! Modern medicine is dying….. Holism is on the rise.

    I first heard that cry at least 30 years ago, and it seems even more detached from reality now than it did then. ‘Holism’, or ‘the rejection of science-based medicine’ as I prefer to call it, is a luxury affordable only by those with the safety net provided by modern scientific medicine. There’s a reason that ‘holism’ is never embraced by any population with serious health problems.

    I know you will continue to believe that unless or until you or someone you care about gets sick, despite their ‘holistic’ lifestyle, and remains sick despite ‘holistic’ treatment. The irony is that you probably won’t seek effective medical treatment until urgent medical treatment is required, enabling you to play your “unless it’s an emergency” get-out card, and thus maintain your blinkered world-view. It’s a self-perpetuating delusion.

  115. #118 Antaeus Feldspar
    July 22, 2015

    Money has been scarce, but when I can afford it, I want a copy of Shrinks: The Untold Story of Psychiatry. The interview with the author that I read in the New York Times suggests that it might make it much easier for me to defend increased autistic diagnoses around the world.

    Can your local library do an Interlibrary Loan request? I’ve had good luck with that.

  116. #119 THEO
    July 22, 2015

    @ obrian how low is extremely low?
    With vaccines, the US went from a .000237 PERCENT death rate among the general population from measles in 1963 to a 0.000000% measles death rate. It’s a different story around the world though (as the WHO points out to scare the crap out of you.) Currently, around 197,000 people die each year from measles… out of 6 billion. Want to know percent that equals? The calculator showed: 3.28e-5.

    ***pencil scratches on paper, moving the decimal point to the left five places because of the -e***

    0.0000328.

    ***calculator clicking***

    Which brings the percentage of people who die globally from measles today to:

    0.00328%. (Remember when I told you to remember that figure above?)

    0.000237% < 0.00328%
    So, comparing the two figures, as a country, we Americans did better in 1963 at not dying from measles than the general population of the world is doing RIGHT NOW.

    The premise that we should be fearful of measles is flawed based on our new understanding of the body as I stated earlier.micorbome etc Measles is beneficial to the childs immune system it up regulates and orchestrates the cellular arm of the immune system. all that is required is good nutrition. for the 100th time What part of nutrition do you not understand? your a bunch of medical people with a minimal understanding of nutrition concepts. all you know is pharmacology.

    @ helianthus You probably didn't even know about that study regarding the lymphatic system and the brain. My pediatrician sure didn't why cause because she is too busy jabbing children Are you denying we have an explosion of kids with food allergies? peanut is a big one milk & egg are too. Did you know they use chicken embryos and casein from milk top manufacture vaccines? asthma rates are up 300% since the 1980"s Let see when you tamper with the immune system and inject foreign proteins into it there will be consequences. Do the research yourself. its all out there. Oh I know exactly WTF I am talking about YOU on the hand are getting your information from a used car salesmen the vaccine manufacturers. of course they tell you its safe and effective.

    According to the CDC Developmental disabilities are a group of conditions due to an impairment in physical, learning, language, or behavior areas. About one in six children in the U.S. have one or more developmental disabilities or other developmental delays. http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/developmentaldisabilities/index.html

    Thats a lot of impaired children. Over 90% of them have been vaccinated with mercury and aluminum etc. Both known neurotcxins. but according to your warped view thats not possible? I am an outsider and logic suggest to me thats EXTREMELY possible and LIKELY. and many scientists and pediatricians concur.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25699008

  117. #120 Julian Frost
    Gauteng East Rand
    July 22, 2015

    @THEO:

    Measles is beneficial to the childs immune system it up regulates and orchestrates the cellular arm of the immune system.

    Not even wrong, dunderhead.
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/05/15/the-benefits-of-the-measles-vaccine-go-beyond-measles/

    all that is required is good nutrition.

    The Native Americans had a diet vastly superior to that of the European settlers. It didn’t save them from being cut down in their thousands by diseases, especially measles.

    Are you denying we have an explosion of kids with food allergies?…asthma rates are up 300% since the 1980″s

    Citation needed.
    Oh heck with it. You’re spouting drivel.

  118. #121 shay
    July 22, 2015

    Theo, if all that is required to prevent measles is good nutrition, explain why the incidence of measles didn’t start to drop until after the vaccine was introduced?

    The American middle-class diet in the 1950’s and 1960’s was pretty good, in fact healthier than what kids eat today. Fewer additives and processed foods.

    We also had clean water and indoor plumbing. So how come we all got the measles?

  119. […] How “they” view “us”: A woman dies of measles, and antivaccinationists think… […]

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