How "they" view "us": A woman dies of measles, and antivaccinationists think it's a conspiracy

Dammit.

I had planned on posting something else tomorrow that, because it had been posted elsewhere, would be minimal work. The reason, of course, is because it's the 4th of July weekend and today is a federal holiday. Unfortunately, sometimes things happen that I cannot ignore, even though all sorts of other bloggers are writing about the same thing, because, well, it's something that goes to the very core of what this blog stands for. As you know, one of the most frequently addressed topics (certainly in the top three, if not number one) is the antivaccine movement, its pseudoscience, and the threat it represents to public health through decreased vaccine uptake that leads to outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases. This danger was illustrated in a big way earlier this year when there was a large outbreak of the measles centered at Disneyland and attributed largely to the unvaccinated. Indeed, the Disneyland measles outbreak was arguably a pivotal event by itself because it's impossible to imagine that SB 277 woud have even been introduced into the California legislature for consideration, much less passed by both chambers and signed into law by the governor. SB 277 is now the law of the land and has eliminated non-medical exemptions to school vaccine mandates in California. That's right. California joined Mississippi and West Virginia as the only states that do not permit either religious or personal belief exemptions.

Unfortunately, I learned yesterday afternoon that something else had happened that drives home the fact that measles, contrary to what antivaccine apologists try to claim, is dangerous and can be deadly. Yesterday, a tragedy occurred. The Washington State Department of Health announced that a woman had died of unsuspected measles:

OLYMPIA - The death of a Clallam County woman this spring was due to an undetected measles infection that was discovered at autopsy.

The woman was most likely exposed to measles at a local medical facility during a recent outbreak in Clallam County. She was there at the same time as a person who later developed a rash and was contagious for measles. The woman had several other health conditions and was on medications that contributed to a suppressed immune system. She didn’t have some of the common symptoms of measles such as a rash, so the infection wasn’t discovered until after her death. The cause of death was pneumonia due to measles.

This is a horrible tragedy that I've been fearing for a long time, and it's finally happened. The measles has claimed its first victim in the latest series of outbreaks. Indeed, this was the first measles death recorded in the US in 12 years.

I know what antivaccinationists are going to say. They'll say that they're sorry, that this is horrible. Then they'll make excuses, adding that this woman was immunosuppressed and that's why she died. They'll claim that measles is a benign disease to almost everyone else. Of course, that's only partially true. The mortality rate from measles in otherwise healthy individuals is quite low (approximately 1 to 2 per 1,000), but it's not zero. Complications like pneumonia are by no means uncommon. Less common, but still to be feared, are complications such as encephalitis (again, approximately 1 in 1,000) or, even worse, the uniformly deadly complication of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE). This is a rare but fatal disease of the central nervous system that results from a measles virus infection acquired earlier in life, usually developing 7 to 10 years after a person has measles, even though the person seems to have fully recovered from the illness. Elsewhere in the world, measles is far deadlier. It's also incredibly infectious, caused by one of the most easily transmissible viruses known to medical science.

But how could this woman have gotten so sick and died before it was realized that she had the measles? After all, the measles is nothing if not very recognizable, thanks to a characteristic rash caused by the disease. Here's why:

It's not surprising that the woman had no obvious measles symptoms; people with compromised immune systems often don't develop a rash when infected with the virus, said Paul Offit, chief of infectious disease at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.

The woman's death was a preventable, but predictable, consequence of falling vaccination rates, said Peter Hotez, president of the Sabin Vaccine Institute and Texas Children's Hospital Center for Vaccine Development in Houston.

As noted over at io9, rashless measles is rare, but far from unheard of. An overreview of measles warns:

Among immunocompromised persons, diffuse progressive pneumonitis caused by the measles virus is the most common cause of death [97–104]. These patients may first have typical measles with pneumonia, or they may have a nonspecific illness without rash followed by pneumonitis without a rash. In general, signs of pneumonitis develop in the 2 weeks after the first onset of symptoms [90, 96, 105]. Other patients have had reappearance of rash and pneumonitis after long intervals following “classical” measles [97, 106].

In other words, if you're immunocompromised, you might not know you have the measles until you develop severe viral pneumonitis due to the measles virus. Make no mistake, in immunocompromised patients with the measles, pneumonitis is the most common cause of death.

This woman's death was not tied to the Disneyland measles outbreak, but Clallam County had a small outbreak of measles earlier this year, which is not surprising given that Washington has been a hotbed of low vaccine uptake and antivaccine activity, to the point that the legislature moved to make it more difficult to obtain nonmedical exemptions. Clallam County has not been immune to parents declining to protect their children from vaccine-preventable diseases by claiming personal belief exemptions. Indeed, it ranked 30th out of 39 counties in Washington for in its rate of complete immunizations, with a compliance rate of 48%, meaning that over 50% of its schoolchildren are either undervaccinated or unvaccinated. In Clallam County, as few as 56% of schoolchildren in Port Townsend schools, while 89% of children in Port Angeles schools are completely up to date on their vaccines.

The bottom line is that there was an outbreak a few months ago in Clallam County, and, even though it wasn't linked to the Disneyland measles outbreak (health officials report that it was a different strain of the measles), it almost certainly was linked to low vaccine uptake in the county. That is why the antivaccine movement is dangerous.

Not surprisingly, the usual suspects are quick to claim that low vaccine uptake had nothing to do with why this woman died, that this death was not preventable. First up, there's Dr. Jay Gordon, our favorite "I'm not antivaccine" antivaccine pediatrician, responding to questions on Twitter:

Dr. Jay's Tweet

Yep, That's Dr. Jay telling someone that this unfortunate woman's death was not preventable? Not preventable? Nonsense! MMR is very effective at preventing measles, and if MMR uptake is adequately high, herd immunity will protect people who are unfortunate enough to be immunosuppressed. Dr. Jay is basically trying to pass the buck.

Meanwhile, Dr. Bob Sears, master of the antivaccine dog whistle, is furiously trying to distance the Disneyland measles outbreak from this woman's death:

MEASLES DEATH NOT LINKED TO DISNEYLAND OUTBREAK, ACCORDING TO ABC NEWS AND WASHINGTON STATE HEALTH DEPT SPOKESMAN

Here is an update from ABC News. Again, our condolences to the family.
According to the last line in the story, this case was NOT linked to the Disneyland outbreak. We don't yet know what that means. It may have been a measles strain from somewhere else? We don't know yet. Vaccine strains can also be picked up by immunocompromised people, as this woman was. But be have no facts about that whatsoever.

Again, our heartfelt condolences to the family.

That's nice. You can almost hear Dr. Bob backing away and saying, "Don't blame me!." Of course, it doesn't matter that this outbreak was due to a different strain of measles virus. It really doesn't. What matters is MMR uptake, which is lower than it should be in Clallam County. The reason it's low is, at least in part, due to the fear mongering spread by Dr. Bob's and Dr. Jay's patients, some of whom are quite active in the antivaccine movement. (Remember, Dr. Jay was Jenny McCarthy's son's pediatrician back when she was transforming herself into a "warrior mother" going to war against vaccines.) It's low because irresponsible pediatricians like Dr. Jay and Dr. Bob are sympathetic to the views of antivaccine parents, to the point where they not infrequently parrot antivaccine talking points. Indeed, Dr. Jay, relying on his "30 years of clinical experience," has been known to insist that vaccines cause autism even as he admits that there's no good evidence to support that belief.

If you want despicable, though, check out this comment by someone named Jen Glover Bishop:

If pneumonia was the cause of death then measles is a non issue. Pneumonia is a complication that can occur after the common cold in an immune compromised person. Anything would have led to pneumonia in a person like that. Life is not illness proof.

This is sort of true. Even if it were totally true, there's one big difference between the common cold and the measles. We can't prevent the common cold easily. We can prevent the measles. With a vaccine. And antivaccinationists do everything to deny and minimize their contribution to outbreaks. If you really want to see how low they can go, check out this comment by Christina Wright:

honestly, i call bullshit on this story. i'm sorry if it's actually true, but its just way too vague and really sketchy that someone just so happens to die from measles as people are starting to wake up about all these bills being introduced. this is a scare tactic to whip the public back into shape. hello pharma pays $$$$$$ for marketing, thats all this is...a marketing strategy to set the tone of what's to come.

Yes, it's time for the conspiracy theories to come out. Same as it ever was. Of course, if conspiracy theories aren't enough, then there's always outright denying the importance of this story—and even that it's legitimate—as Colleen Cron Oleksinski does:

With ALL due respect, why is this making national news? People die everyday without national recognition, why is this any different? By the way, Im not buying it either.

Oleksinski was answered by a chorus of Hallelujahs:

Setting the stage. They wasted no time. This is tragic absolutely. And what did they say, she passed in the spring? Did they wait this long to have an autopsy? Bring this out now, two days after CA signs BS277 and it is from a different state...perfect to infect the whole country with PANic and misinformation. Federal bill...I can't wait.

And:

It's making the news so that the sheep will once again become paralyzed with fear...and they won't put up a fight when forced vaccinations come to their state.

And:

Getting the fear nice and deep to then roll out adult mandatory vaccines!

You get the idea. it's not our fault, and this poor woman's death is nothing more than a conspiracy by big pharma and the government to pave the way for jack booted thugs wielding syringes to force children and adults to be vaccinated. It's a fantastical, paranoid delusion, but it's what they believe, even at the expense of denying the human tragedy that's just occurred.

This is what we're up against.

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Brief Orac follow up note, January 21, 2015: Antivaccine pediatrician "Dr. Bob" Sears responds to his patients' parents' concerns about the Disneyland measles outbreak. Hilarity ensues. Last week, the self-proclaimed "happiest place on earth" wasn't so happy. You've probably figured out that what…
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Now we can say for sure that the blood is on their hands.

He has created a monster over on that page of his. It is disgusting the way he panders to the misinformation and lies they pass around like it's the new crack. The way he set them up to do so with his implications of "vaccine shedding" in this woman's death is reprehensible. Your analogy of the dog whistle is apt, Orac.

It saddens me that it is entirely possible if not likely one of his own patients will die from measles, or diphtheria as we saw in Spain, or any of the other diseases we can protect against. Given that he has so many clients who choose, with his blessings, to forego/delay lifesaving protection. The odds are not in his favor.

And if/when that does happen, they will turn on that person too. They turn on anyone who leaves the cult, whether by personal choice or death.

"not preventable"

There were five other cases in that county. The index case was unvaccinated. He gave it to an unvaccinated child who gave it to her unvaccinated sibling. Another unvaccinated adult got measles too. Lastly, a partially vaccinated adult (got vax in early 1970s) got measles from one of the kids.

If they had been vaccinated - this woman's death is almost certainly prevented. Shame on Dr Jay yet again.

By Vincent Iannelli, MD (not verified) on 02 Jul 2015 #permalink

@1 -- This is what I was trying to say in my comment on the "true Face" post, where I screwed up my e-mail address. The partially-immunized case is most likely where she got infected; that person is a relative of the unvaccinated siblings (possibly dad given the ages). That chain of infection would have been so easily broken with appropriate vaccinations.

I can only hope this brings the WA bill back up again; my state reps were co-sponsors, I should nag at them.

By Emma Crew (not verified) on 02 Jul 2015 #permalink

Indeed, this was the first measles death recorded in the US in 12 years.

Again, not according to the National Vital Statistics Reports. Table 10 here, for example.

I'm pretty sure that I've gone through these year by year (having been prompted by HDB) in an earlier comment thread.

The HTML quoting for the quote starting with "Setting the stage" isn't working.

By Matthew Cline (not verified) on 02 Jul 2015 #permalink

The partially-immunized case is most likely where she got infected; that person is a relative of the unvaccinated siblings

According to this news report http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20150313/NEWS/150319984 the partially vaccinated patient quarantined himself and infected no-one.

The reports of the young woman's death state she was infected at a medical clinic, the same place the kindergartner was infected. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/undetected-measles-led-…

This makes the index case the most likely person who gave her the infection.

If pneumonia was the cause of death then measles is a non issue. Pneumonia is a complication that can occur after the common cold in an immune compromised person. Anything would have led to pneumonia in a person like that. Life is not illness proof.

I have had Cia Parker tell me this exact same thing today.

I wasn't very polite.

@ Orac

I know what antivaccinationists are going to say. They’ll say that they’re sorry, that this is horrible.

If only.
From the little I gathered from the earlier comments following online news on her death, anti-vaxers jumped directly to the conspiracy part.

Because, you know, pneumonia could only bacterial in origin. Or if measles was so contagious, there should have been an outbreak of biblical proportion (uh, maybe this poor woman's entourage was smart enough to be vaccinated). Or maybe she was just an old weak crone and would have died of anything anyway*.

* yeah, antivaxers are overflowing with empathy.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 02 Jul 2015 #permalink

It is shameful how ignorant, exploitative and insensitive that Sears and Gordon are about this preventable death for which they themselves share medical blame.

By Chris Hickie (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Port Townsend is in Jefferson county (not Clallum), which is adjacent to Clallam county. I'd be willing to bet that Jefferson county vax rates are worse than Clallam county's. PT is very New Agey, whereas Port Angeles is a bit less so.

By darwinslapdog (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Negligent homicide & wrongful death come to mind.

"Indeed, it ranked 30th out of 39 counties in Washington for in its rate of complete immunizations, with a compliance rate of 48%, meaning that over 50% of its schoolchildren are either undervaccinated or unvaccinated. In Clallam County, as few as 56% of schoolchildren in Port Townsend schools, while 89% of children in Port Angeles schools are completely up to date on their vaccines."

WOW! This shows that the herd immunity is closer to the ORIGINAL 1996 rates (55%) in this area. ONE woman died of a questionable measles connection, (which if true, is admittedly RARE) and makes national news. THIS MEANS THE OVERALL MEASLES RATE IS EXTREMELY LOW IN AN AREA WITH LOW VACCINE COMPLIANCE. Even if there was 100% US compliance with measles vaccines, this woman still would not have been safe; MEASLES ARE JUST A PLANE RIDE AWAY. Also, the original SALES PITCH by the CDC in 1996 was ONE vaccine for around 55% coverage, and measles would be eradicated in the U.S. IN ONE YEAR (1997). Now, they admit the vaccine immunity WANES, hence the need for, now, TWO BOOSTERS. The WANING RATE varies from individual. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE OF VACCINE IMMUNITY.

Now, let's address the PREVENTABLE CANCER issue. Is this area downwind from a nuclear power plant? Were they in the path of Fukushima fallout from 2011? Any medical treatment that WIPES OUT A PATIENT'S IMMUNE SYSTEM is NOT A VIABLE TREATMENT. It's BUYER BEWARE for any patient who chooses it. INFORMED CONSENT.

Anyone who exposes themselves to NLP pulp fiction deserves the results....BAAAAAA!

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

If pneumonia was the cause of death then measles is a non issue. Pneumonia is a complication that can occur after the common cold in an immune compromised person. Anything would have led to pneumonia in a person like that.

Let's continue that line of thinking. After all, pneumonia never killed anyone - people die of a failure to maintain proper brain function. The brain is a delicate organ and can stop working at any time for a variety of reasons. Anything would have led to a brain malfunction in a person like that.

Logically, then:
- Car crashes don't kill anyone.
- Wars don't kill anyone
- etc.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

"It’s making the news so that the sheep will once again become paralyzed with fear"

Spoken by the sort of person who gets panicky over vaccine "toxins" like sodium chloride, dextrose and amino acids.

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

"Dammit"
I agree Orac. Your photo "illustration" is a complete lie. The woman in your story DID NOT HAVE A RASH.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Did he really go there? Are there any case studies, anywhere? Does he know something the IDSA, AAP, and CDC do not?

"The only report of transmission of MMR viruses from im- munocompetent vaccinees involved transmission to nursing neonates of rubella vaccine virus via breast milk."
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/11/26/cid.cit684.full…

I know, evidence... What a concept.

By James Lind (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Surely if this were an evil conspiracy to influence the decision makers about SB277, why did they wait until after the bill was passed to declare the death?

What is sad is the fact that living in a poor county is actually beneficial for me. Yakima county has the third highest vaccination rate in WA of the 39 counties. I am more than willing to bet it is because of the large number of people who have to use the medicaid-based clinics where public health workers greatly encourage vaccination. A lot of people are migrant farm workers who are ecstatic they are able to provide their children with this kind of care.

By Spamamander (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

I've heard that tale about _ mandatory adult vaccination_ frequently courtesy of PRN: usually they also add that pharma has 270 (or suchlike) vaccines "in the pipeline".

I imagine that AJW and his followers believe that they have NOTHING to do with any deaths from measles whether this young woman or the young man in Wales. The causes of their deaths were their own diseases they might like to think.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Looking at woo like this as an attribution theorist-
-ASDs are caused by pharma/ doctors/ government
-measles deaths are caused by those who died.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

So sad...and you know the antivaxxers are just going to repeat their mantra: it's not my responsibility to put my child at (largely imaginary) risk to protect someone else.

You'd think if the pharma overlords were going to fake a death to "scare the sheep back in line," they'd pick a healthy, adorable toddler, not someone who's immunocompromised, which allows the general public to maintain the comforting illusion that "it can't happen to me."

Surprisingly, Mikey has not yet sounded off about the death and blamed the victim yet ( but it's still morning where he is)- he's continuing on about the California bill 'backfiring' on its creators and exposing pharma lies- posts like this get him high ratings ( see numbers).

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Sorry little toto, looks like Kansas left you a long time ago.

The sun rises and anti vaccinationsts think it is a conspiracy.

By I. Rony Meter (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

In cases like this, what might lead a vigilant provider to suspect measles, and what would be the most reliable, accurate way to properly diagnose it? I'm assuming an autopsy is not always required in immunocompromized patients.

By Rourke Decker (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Mikey is probably too busy feeding his chickens and cavorting with his goats to write... as well he should.

OT but it's Friday, late, a holiday for some and are woo-fraught alties blaming victims ever TRULY OT @ RI?

PRN's idiot-in-charge is 70 years old and has recently had friends, 'colleagues' and enablers die on him: he brought several political commenters over with him from Pacifica- two of the men have died ( one of pancreatic cancer) and a third, a woman, has stage 4 cancer- which he is currently 'treating'.

HOWEVER today his account of another friend and enabler's death- a doctor who wrote books with him and ran his 'research' groups- was incredibly vile because he described unspeakable GI symptoms that apparently led to the man's death in great detail prior to blaming him. This is nothing new as he blames even his family members' deaths on their lifestyle as well. IF ONLY they had listened to him, he bleats.

I wonder how much of this- or Mikey's blaming celebrities' deaths- just expressive of their personality disorders or purely denial of their own mortality?
What happened to the guy with pancreatic cancer or is happening to that woman will never happen to them because they LIVE RIGHT!

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

[Clallam County] ranked 30th out of 39 counties in Washington for in its rate of complete immunizations, with a compliance rate of 48%

Let those numbers sink in a bit: in Washington state a vaccine compliance rate of 50% is enough to get your county out of the bottom quartile. There is no herd immunity when that many people are unvaccinated.

Clallam County is close enough to Seattle that many residents probably commute there (or Bremerton, Everett, or Tacoma) for work. I have relatives in western Washington, and my impression is that the local economy in that county consists of commuters and tourists, probably with a bunch of second homes in the mix. So there is definitely a major metro area at risk here.

Spoken by the sort of person who gets panicky over vaccine “toxins” like sodium chloride, dextrose and amino acids.

Don't let them hear about dihydrogen monoxide! There is rather a lot of it in that vicinity. But not so much from the sky, as that side of the peninsula is in the rain shadow of the Olympics.

By Eric Lund (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

#13

OOPS!
Should read "1966" and "1967"

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

#32
"in Washington state a vaccine compliance rate of 50% is enough to get your county out of the bottom quartile. There is no herd immunity when that many people are unvaccinated."

Well, well. Isn't this the HOME of the Bill & Melinda Gates "vaccinate anything that moves" Foundation? DO THE CITIZENS KNOW SOMETHING?

According to the CDC in 1966, the "herd immunity" rate based on WILD MEASLES VIRUS was 55%. Can't you read? I've posted the document many times. THE SETTLED SCIENCE promised ONE vaccine to the herd rate (55%) and measles would be eradicated IN ONE YEAR (1967).
YOUR COMMENT IS WORTHLESS.

How long has the compliance rate been at 50%? Statistics please.
What was the measles incidence rate during this 50% compliance?
Statistics please.

What is the cancer rate in this state? Is it increasing? If so, was the increase after 2011?
How many nuclear reactors are in Washington?

The Washington patient that died had been previously vaccinated for measles. Specifically, what was the evidence used to determine that she had measles?
Remember, Wakefield found vaccine measles living in autistic children's gut.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Dr. Bob's Facebook page is a real den of vipers isn't it? I need to go there more often.I can't believe Dr. Bob has the outright gall to blame this poor woman's death on vaccine shedding,when the measles outbreak in Callam County is very well documented,and clearly linked to unvaccinated children.

All of that is detailed here in the links.As this blogger says antivaxers are a culture of death.

Toto @13,you need to read the local news stories and press releases linked here,It proves you are full of it,but that wouldn't be the first time.

Here Toto here's a prettier picture for you.Happy now?

By Roger Kulp (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Living in an area with compliance rates around 99%, I think I have been in my very own naive bubble about just how bad this situation has become.

With rates around 50%, I am surprised those in WA don't eschew potable water, hand washing and indoor plumbing.

By Not a Troll (f… (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

With rates around 50%, I am surprised those in WA don’t eschew potable water, hand washing and indoor plumbing.

Some do, in a sense, but not on purpose.

Anyone read Bob's latest screed? Excerpted:

**Note: For kindergarten, two doses of MMR and Chickenpox are normally required. However, for most children, one dose works well enough. Families who are trying to minimize the number of vaccines can get a blood test a few months after the first doses to see if they worked. If so, second doses wouldn't be needed. If the blood test shows the first dose failed, the second dose can be given at anytime thereafter.

Why doesn't the AAP do anything about this clown??

Granting that it's unnecessary pandering to ignorance, is there any actual risk to giving one dose of MMR and then checking titres vs just giving both doses?

@ Rourke #30

"In cases like this, what might lead a vigilant provider to suspect measles, and what would be the most reliable, accurate way to properly diagnose it? I’m assuming an autopsy is not always required in immunocompromised patients."

It is possible to make a clinical diagnosis without the rash. Typical incubation is 8-12days. Including fever, the prodrome offers distinct features of cough, coryza, and conjunctivitis with photophobia; Koplik's spots may also be present (red spots with central grey/whitish lesions on the buccal mucosa). If the rash presents (erythematous maculopapular), it usually starts neck/ears and descends quickly to feet in about three days, not sparing the palms and soles. In cases of HIV & oncology patients contracting measles, the rash does not present in about 30% of the cases, and both have high rates of fatal complications (pneumonia being the most common severe complication).

This is why there's no hope of stamping out religion: people *want* to believe the irrational. If it's not based on the supernatural, people will latch on to various and sundry conspiracy theories.

Sarah A @39

Granting that it’s unnecessary pandering to ignorance, is there any actual risk to giving one dose of MMR and then checking titres vs just giving both doses?

To summarize Delphine’s link to JusttheVax @40: why would you want subject your young child to a blood draw instead of just the injection? Especially since we’re talking about three different diseases here (or 4 if you get MMRV), and if your kid ends up included in the 20% who don’t seroconvert mumps you’re going to need the second dose anyway.

...why would you want subject your young child to a blood draw instead of just the injection?

Because lowest effective dose.

But I do agree about the issues in getting young ones to handle blood draws. Perhaps this is more about convenience than anything else.

By Not a Troll (f… (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

@#44, did you read the link from Just the Vax?

Anyone have a source for the vaccine status of the 5 other measles cases in her county?

No. I thought I just read a summary of it here.

Just skimmed the article at link. My support for consideration of the lowest effective dose comes from pharmacy training, not from Dr. Sears and I don't support his protocol.

By Not a Troll (f… (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Also, do we know yet which case exposed her?

As absurd as this is, if it ends up being the adult that had received one vaccine the anti-vaccine loons are going to have a field day.

Mike Adams might not have weighed in yet. But Sayer Ji of Greenmedinfo wrote this on his facebook page today:

Ready for your daily dose of absurd, pseudo- or anti-scientific propaganda? "Dying from measles"? How about dying from a chemical assaulted, nutrient-depleted immune system? You can blame a singular cause like a coconut for killing someone when it falls on their head and they die, but who would claim an inherently benign virus could kill you simply by infecting you? If that were so MMR which infects millions each year with live measles virus should be reclassified as assault NOT "immunization," the lie of the century.

Remember, Wakefield found vaccine measles living in autistic children’s gut.

Not really, no. The controls for the tests he had a colleague run for him were either missing or came back wrong.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

"How many nuclear reactors are in Washington?"

Oh, FFS, really?
The current answer, btw, is ONE, which has been around since 1984.

By Emma Crew (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Let's see. Patient X is immunocompromised and APPARENTLY dies from pneumonia: "The woman had several other health conditions and was on medications that contributed to a suppressed immune system. She didn’t have some of the common symptoms of measles such as a rash.." WHY DID THEY DO AN AUTOPSY? Is this standard procedure? Where is the EVIDENCE that Patient X had measles? So far, NONE HAS BEEN SHOWN TO THE PUBLIC.

"The woman was MOST LIKELY exposed to measles at a local medical facility during a recent outbreak in Clallam County. She was there at the same time as a person who later developed a rash and was contagious for measles."

DON MOYER IS MERELY A COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER. HE IS SPECULATING! Lets hear more about this MYSTERIOUS measles carrier.
"She was there at the same time as a person who later developed a rash and was contagious for measles."

LET'S SEE, Patient X was in an ISOLATION ward at the same time an UNAMED individual was in an UNDISCLOSED area of the hospital for an UNDISCLOSED period of time. At an UNDISCLOSED location, for an UNDISCLOSED period of time later, MYSTERY PERSON contracts measles.
https://websrv7.clallam.net/forms/uploads/PHalerts20150702100636.pdf

I CALL FOR Donn Moyer's RESIGNATION for being allowed to write this hideous piece of garbage!

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Delphine, Not a Troll:
No, I summarized the argument as I understood it, and in the meantime Delphine posted the JtV link including the source materials. As I had reloaded before posting I did not repost the link from #40.

I did not anticipate my summary would muddy the waters.

Because lowest effective dose.

Fine. Therapeutic window and all. What is that for the MMR vaccine? Or are we asking how many? Vaccines are not metabolized the same way as drugs.

The real issue is that Dr Bob is advocating substituting a riskier procedure for the vaccine.

#50
"Not really, no"

Mere assertions won't do. Back it up with documentation.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

@Annie, the first of earlier cases started back in February, IIRC. I have a friend who has been keeping track of cases all year, who was my source, but we can dig up the information.

By Emma Crew (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Chemmomo, Delphine

No issues on muddying the waters. I thought about this after I posted and from my viewpoint I was only answering a question I thought was asked. Has nothing to do with linked article really.

"What is that for the MMR vaccine? Or are we asking how many?"

Does it matter if the question is which titer level provides immunity?

I have no doubt that if the price of vaccines were to increase to be in favor of titers or if they had to be drawn in the interests of public health because of people skirting vaccinations that most here would support them.

I accept the pragmatic reasons for multiple doses vs titer and that there's a tiny amount of risk in a lab draw but there is also a valid principled reason in response to your question.

I hope you enjoy your holiday.

By Not a Troll (f… (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Annie,

According to the various reports that have come out over the past 4 months, of the other 5 cases in Port Angeles, only one was vaccinated. This was an older family member of the two unvaccinated children who caught the disease, one from patient 0 (a middle-aged man) and one from her sister.

The older family member had received a single dose in the late 1960s (probably of the killed virus vaccine)*.

The vaccination status of the young woman who died is unclear. However, as she was on immunosuppressant drugs, her vaccination status is irrelevant.

*A side note, if, as appears likely, he was the father of the two girls (an unvaccinated kindergartner and an unvaccinated teenager), I am wondering what he is thinking about his anti-vaccine position right now.

@Annie Clallam county press release on 5th case (PDF) states cases 1-4 not vaccinated, case 5 under vaccinated.
List of cases with press release dates:
1. 2/4 52 yo man
2. 2/13 5 yo girl
3. 2/19 43 yo man contact, with 1, quarantined 2/5.
4. 2/20 14 yo brother of 2, quarantined.
5. 3/13 adult relative of 2&4, was originally presumed immune due to single shot in 1970s. Rash onset 3/4, press release states no contact with susceptible people when infectious but not sure how that can be verified since afaict, not quarantined?

By Emma Crew (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Annie #48,

They believe she was exposed at a healthcare facility during the recent outbreak in the county, I believe 5 children and an adult. The adult had received one dose of MMR and self-quarantined, IRC, the children were all unvaccinated and it was the index case that was in that facility.

By FrequentLurker (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

p.s. Case 2 had confirmed contact with case 1 as well.
Also, be prepared for this child (PDF) who developed a rash post-vaccination but was confirmed to not be a case of measles to be trotted out as OMG SHEDDING!!!1!11!

By Emma Crew (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Thank you Emma Crew.
I tracked Disney cases; your outbreak did not hit the news here and I missed them all (not sure if the UTrib suffers from anti-vax bent).

Looking for OCCULT measles.....

"A 1997 review of autopsy studies totaling 3,744 cases found that the mean prevalence of thyroid cancer was 3.6%, mostly “occult” microscopic cases. The Hanford study, by contrast, found 12 cases of thyroid cancer among 1,747 women and 7 cases among 1,693 men—less than 1%. (See Stat Bite at right.) But since the researchers were not able to slice up participants’ thyroids to look for occult cancer, the comparison has little meaning."
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/94/14/1046.long

Again, WHY was an autopsy done on Patient X? How do we know if an "occult" case of measles is deadly?
FROM THE ABOVE EXAMPLE, autopsies are not always done. WAS THIS WOMAN IN SOME SORT OF STUDY? WAS SHE USING EXPERIMENTAL DRUGS?

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

#57
"Their investigation led — through means NOT DESCRIBED — to Marlon Andrino, who was contacted by phone. He surrendered at the Beverly Hill police station about 1 p.m. Thursday.

He was held on SUSPICION of multiple counts of felony vandalism. He was RELEASED Friday just before noon and was due in court Monday, county inmate records showed."

This sounds FISHY to me. You may recall this graffiti story, where a student FAKED a graffiti threat to themselves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6S4hmNN2Hk

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

#59
THE VIDEO REPORT IN THE ARTICLE clearly stated the PATIENT HAD BEEN VACCINATED FOR MEASLES. The measles virus could have resided in her body prior to her treatments.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

I imagine that AJW and his followers believe that they have NOTHING to do with any deaths from measles whether this young woman or the young man in Wales.

The response of "Linda1" ("LZ" on Disqustink) at AoA is pretty good:

Breaking News my behind. What is the woman's name? She died "this year"? When? Her parents say she was vaccinated? When did they say she was vaccinated? How long before she developed atypical measles was she vaccinated?

If this woman died of measles "this year", are we supposed to believe that public health officials are just now saying so?

Are they exhuming bodies now to do autopsies and find measles?

Is this "woman in her 20's" who died "this year" real? Or is this news story timed for release days after Brown handed his constituents over to Pharma on a silver platter part of the government's get everyone vaccinated campaign?

I smell propaganda.

#48

"Also, do we know yet which case exposed her?"
THERE IS NO PROOF ANY OF THEM DID.
THE PUBLIC HAS BEEN GIVEN NO PROOF THAT SHE HAD MEASLES. THE PUBLIC HAS BEEN GIVEN NO REASON FOR THE AUTOPSY.
"The death of a Clallam County woman this spring was due to an undetected measles infection that was discovered at autopsy."
https://websrv7.clallam.net/forms/uploads/PHalerts20150702100636.pdf

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Fukushima is blindingly irrelevant, unless Toto thinks the state government down in Olympia has the power to prevent tsunamis and nuclear meltdowns on the other side of the Pacific. FWIW, I am reasonably sure that my risk from Fukushima, even if technically above zero, is significantly lower than my risk of radiation damage from the sun, even though I wear sunscreen and tend to seek out shade (to keep cool).

But even if radiation from Fukushima was a significant risk to those of us on the Pacific coast of North America, there'd be nothing for anyone here to gain by adding the chance of contracting measles.

It does not surprise me, British skeptic Myles Power covered the response to the death resulting from the Wales outbreak and it was much the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLkWGvXmWRg

In related news Australian womens magazine 'Australian Womans Weekly' sent a reporter to an anti-vax conference run by the Mindd Foundation (Who seem to have picked up the torch from the AVSN) and found them telling people that vaccination was a plot to inject people with GMOs, the crank magnatism is still hard at work.

http://www.aww.com.au/latest-news/health/vaccination-debate-at-forum-21…

Port Townsend is in Jefferson county (not Clallum), which is adjacent to Clallam county. I’d be willing to bet that Jefferson county vax rates are worse than Clallam county’s.

Per the Seattle Times:

"In Clallam County, about 7.2 percent of all school children were exempt from vaccinations in the 2013-2014 school year, state figures show, meaning their parents submitted signed forms citing medical, religious or personal reasons for not immunizing their kids. Nearby Jefferson County has a 12.8 exemption rate."

This makes the index case the most likely person who gave her the infection.

The Seattle Times article that you cited, however, states that "she was at the site at the same time as someone who later developed a rash." There is no clinic listed among the exposure sites for the index case.

However,

Meanwhile, a 5-year-old girl who is a student at Olympic Christian School in Port Angeles remains quarantined with measles.

No cases have been confirmed in Jefferson County.

Paul Throne, manager for health promotion and communication in the Office of Immunization of the state Department of Health, said Thursday she was exposed to the 52-year-old man at the Lower Elwha Health Clinic, 243511 W. U.S. Highway 101, Port Angeles.

He had been there an hour before while he was contagious. The measles virus is airborne and can stay in a room for up to two hours after an infected person has left.

I've been having a slow-brain day, sorry.

@Chemmomo - my BFF has been tracking every case she could locate nationwide, Disney-related and not. She's the most medically educated/aware music school dropout you'll ever meet. :-)

@Narad he was also mid-hospital stay when his case was confirmed - http://websrv7.clallam.net/forms/uploads/ci20150204.pdf

By Emma Crew (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

"I have no doubt that Mike Adams will have something despicable posted by the end of the day."

He does, if he's calling himself "Toto"/

By Phoenix Woman (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Addendum to 72, local paper confirms clinic, not hospital as exposure site.

By Emma Crew (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink
If pneumonia was the cause of death then measles is a non issue. Pneumonia is a complication that can occur after the common cold in an immune compromised person. Anything would have led to pneumonia in a person like that. Life is not illness proof.

I have had Cia Parker tell me this exact same thing today.

She's moved on to more overt victim-blaming:

"I said that the take-home point here is that people who are taking immunosuppressant drugs or who are chronically immunocompromised shouldn't go to a doctor's office which is a hotbed of infectious disease. Duh! ...

"But it requires public education and a change of mindset."

#66
OH, but Vicki, those are INDUSTRY PREVENTABLE CANCERS. If people didn't get cancers, they wouldn't be tempted to take pharmaceuticals/radiation that WIPE OUT THEIR IMMUNE SYSTEM and leave them vulnerable to measles vaccine injury.
BTW, I haven't eaten produce or fish from the West Coast/Pacific since 2011....only food from south of the Equator, where Rockefellers, Bushes, etc. have their private food preserves.
"In November, Buesseler reported that Fukushima radiation had been identified in 10 offshore samples, including one 100 miles off the coast of Eureka, California."
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/tech/science/environment/2015/04/…
http://enenews.com/nuclear-officials-area-affected-fukushima-encompass-…
http://enenews.com/eerie-new-phenomenon-attacking-sea-creatures-west-co…
http://enenews.com/fukushima-plume-model-shows-1-million-bqm2-west-coas…

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

When an immuno-compromised person dies from pneumonia/pneumonitis, does the autopsy typically include testing for measles and other viruses? Or was this testing done specifically as part of the tracking of possible exposures from known measles cases?

To put it another way: If an immuno-compromised person caught measles at Disneyland (or on a plane, or at McDonalds, etc. with one of the outbreak patients) and didn't have a rash, how likely is it that their case would ever be recognized as part of the outbreak?

She’s moved on to more overt victim-blaming

She had already done that.

And it was the fault of the doctor for not maker her stay at home.

And the fault of the doctor for prescribing her steroids for her asthma (I didn't even know asthma was one of the young woman's problems, but Cia does).

Bugger

Quotefail

And the fault of the doctor for prescribing her steroids for her asthma (I didn’t even know asthma was one of the young woman’s problems, but Cia does).

The irony here is that because she believes autoimmune diseases are a result of vaccination, the implication is that the "vaccine damaged" should also avoid doctors' offices. There's no telling how screwed up their immune systems could be.

The "EMF sensitive," I presume, should also govern themselves accordingly.

It devolves fairly quickly into the already-demonstrated principle that Cynthia is indignant when people don't cater to her desires.

It devolves fairly quickly into the already-demonstrated principle that Cynthia is indignant when people don’t cater to her desires.

If her on-line persona is anything to go by, Cynthia is likely to be one of her daughter's biggest problems.

#72
"In support of this hypothesis, the Cedillos' witnesses relied on the reported detection of measles virus in Michelle's gastrointestinal tract by John O'Leary's Unigenetics laboratory in Dublin. However, the government's expert witnesses conclusively demonstrated that O'Leary's positive results were caused by contamination in the Unigenetics lab rather than an actual infection."
This is "he said" "she said". Where is the actual testimony and EVIDENCE?

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Thank you Emma!

One problem with the vaccination statistics is that they're bunching together unvaccinated and undervaccinated. Checking around, I found actually broken out statistics: http://www.doh.wa.gov/DataandStatisticalReports/HealthBehaviors/Immuniz…

Clallam county (6th grade) has 95.1% complete MMR. It looks like most of the undervaccinated people are missing pertussitis (48.9% of 6th graders have recommended vaccinations).

Vicki: "Fukushima is blindingly irrelevant, unless Toto thinks the state government down in Olympia has the power to prevent tsunamis and nuclear meltdowns on the other side of the Pacific"

Though they are keeping track of it. I have a college friend who works in the Dept. of Health on radioactive hazards. He gets to field the phone calls of those worried about radiation. So when some news story broke that granite counter tops may emit radiation the first question he asked to those who called their office was "Do you sleep on your kitchen counters?" Needless to say he is fun to talk to,

He has been called out when debris from Fukushima shows up on our shores. Only to be pushed out by other state researchers who are more concerned with invasive species infecting our sea life. It turns out radiation is minimal, but anything that endangers the aquatic ecology is very important.

Narad: "It devolves fairly quickly into the already-demonstrated principle that Cynthia is indignant when people don’t cater to her desires"

It is amazing that someone who was an actual lawyer and has a PhD in Spanish does not understand the use of paragraphs.

I actually have the opposite problem... the system catered to the needs of my kid, it is just that his anxiety prevents him from going forward. He has had a week to perform a task that he insisted he should do himself. It requires that he fill out a form and present in person to the public transit office.

He is an adult, he has normal intelligence... but he has autism. He spent an entire week making up excuses of why he did not get on the bus (which he can do) and present the piece of paper. I told him if he did not do it by Friday (which turned out the office was closed), I would make him do on Monday. Though my method is to push him out the door and not bother him as I accompany on the buses... it is a way to deal with the anxiety (and next time he may be able to do it by himself). It is one way to accommodate his actual needs.

[I]t is just that his anxiety prevents him from going forward. He has had a week to perform a task....

I know the feeling.

I know the feeling.

Funny, so do I.

This is a preventable tragedy. A simple, effective method of preventing measles outbreaks and/or epidemics has been around for quite a while, yet people refuse to cooperate and receive a simple pair of injections. So, people got sick, and this patient died. Way to go, Age Of Asininity; scare people away from vaccines.

@Chris:

I'm reminded of a job I had, once upon a time, providing in-home care to adults with developmental disabilities. I ended up mainly working with this one particular woman, and they picked me for the job in part because I didn't have a car, and because she's independent enough to get around by herself on the bus, given a little push, and, when needed, a little help/coaching.

Some of her other people had gotten in the habit of just driving her around, etc. It turns out that "I want to do it myself" didn't actually really mean "I want to do it myself," or maybe it did, but the actual doing of things by one's self engendered a certain amount of angst. More than once, this conversation played out:

"You need to get a car!"
"Hmm. Well, you wanna buy me one?"

There were other various tasks she insisted on doing herself, but at some points, we would often end up just doing them sort of in secret. So it goes.

That was a hard job.

I have a hard enough time taking care of my own life, in any case, these days. Or so it seems.

^I actually ended up being the "mean" one quite a bit at that job, when I wasn't being mean, I was just explaining the constraints of reality. Like:

"I know you want to go to this class and also hit up the computer game store at the mall afterward, but the store is going to be closed by the time we can get there. Also, your computer won't be able to run most of the games at the store, which will be disappointing."

From Parker

“I said that the take-home point here is that people who are taking immunosuppressant drugs or who are chronically immunocompromised shouldn’t go to a doctor’s office which is a hotbed of infectious disease.

Well, I totally agree. I will even go further. Only healthy people should go to the doctor or the hospital.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 03 Jul 2015 #permalink

Denice Walter@31

I wonder how much of this- or Mikey’s blaming celebrities’ deaths- just expressive of their personality disorders or purely denial of their own mortality?
What happened to the guy with pancreatic cancer or is happening to that woman will never happen to them because they LIVE RIGHT!

Being a not very nice person, I'm often tempted to wish the vile Adams ends his days in a giant fungating mass, just to teach him firsthand what his Natural Living really entails. But then I remember, not even I am so cruel as to wish such an horrific fate on a tumor.

FWIW, I am reasonably sure that my risk from Fukushima, even if technically above zero, is significantly lower than my risk of radiation damage from the sun

Off tomorrow afternoon on a Fukushima discovery-recovery tour. If I survive I will post some artisanal hand-curated radiation.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ herr doktor bimler:

Hah!
I have heard so much crap from the usual suspects about impending doom about to engulf the entire Pacific region from Fukushima that on my last visit I MADE SURE that I
a. ate salmon that was caught nearby and seaweed, and
b. I spent time along the seaside, even walking into the icy water, which I infrequently do. -btw- the surfers appeared to not care very much either.

So far I seem quite resistant to the incredibly high- but barely registering- radiation that these idiots moan about interminably.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Chris and JP:

Right. That's why I'm a fan of services which involve group activities/ education for people with these issues: there is more than one person to instruct/ set limits/ etc and other clients may be slightly ahead or behind the person in question which can be helpful in both instances ( someone to mimic / someone at a lower level to whom one can feel superior). Unfortunately this costs money and may not be available everywhere- some clients aren't thrilled with the concept either.

Chris, you live in a quite large city, no? There may be something.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

You know I think part of the reason I dislike these people is that they exhibit the right-wing belief that everything is and should be within your individual control.

Want a decent life? Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Want to be healthy? Only eat 'natural' foods, detox, destress and ignore all medical advice because they're just after your money.

Never, ever think that maybe you're just lucky to have the advantages of a middle class family or a fully functioning immune system. Never, ever agree to anything that might help the disadvantaged in society or believe that anyone knows more than you do.

To call Dr. Jay Gordon a turd would be insulting.

To shit.

By David N. Andre… (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Clallam county (6th grade) has 95.1% complete MMR. It looks like most of the undervaccinated people are missing pertussitis (48.9% of 6th graders have recommended vaccinations).

Of course, if you look at it by school district, the story is different. For instance, the Sequim School District only has 83.3% complete MMR in 6th grade. Port Townsend, right next to the county, has a 79.5% completion rate, both below herd immunity.

Look at the YOY increase on MMR in the spreadsheet linked by Anthony. I can't access it right now but I believe it's in the range of a 3% increase with respect to MMR and that increase pushes up to or over the herd threshold for Clallam. Amazing what an outbreak will do. Sad it has to come to this.

Why can we not have an offence named 'murder/manslaughter by misinformation'?

By David N. Andre… (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Denice: "Chris, you live in a quite large city, no? There may be something."

Interesting isn't it on how hard they are to find, and how long the waiting lists are. Oh, and that "normal intelligence" also means not eligible for Developmental Disabilities Administration services, and apparently many programs end when they hit a certain birthday. Apparently once they hit age 26 they no longer have autism and anxiety. Who knew?

We are working with a state job service, and a vendor who works with many kinds of people.

I have heard so much crap from the usual suspects about impending doom about to engulf the entire Pacific region from Fukushima that on my last visit I MADE SURE that I
a. ate salmon that was caught nearby and seaweed

Apparently algae proving better shielding from gamma radiation than inch-thick lead plating, so the seaweed and sushi should keep you safe.
The algae-shielding paper has now been retracted
http://retractionwatch.com/2015/07/03/editors-scrape-off-algae-study-ci…
But only through the machinations of Big Lead.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ herr doktor:

Oh I didn't have the seaweed** in order to PROTECT me but rather to EXPOSE me as I believe that that nonsense is poppycock anyway;
Wasn't Mikey selling a seaweed based 'radiation-blocker' supplement?.

The surfers, who included a few diehard nearly-daily enthusiasts, aged teens to seventies, didn't seem very worried although they spend lots of time in the water in wetsuits which don't block exposure/

** my companion had a tasty seaweed salad in his Japanese deli-style bento meal which I tried, my own had salmon soup with seaweed.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ Chris:

That's sort of what I expected. There may be mental health services but he doesn't have the more serious forms either.

How about really general adult ed services that focus on building skills like cooking etc. It's not much but it's SOMETHING- which is better than nothing**

** my revered family's ancient motto-
'Something is better than nothing'.
Which I can't do in Latin.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

So far I seem quite resistant to the incredibly high- but barely registering- radiation that these idiots moan about interminably.

I spend a great deal of time in a small town on the east coast of Japan ~125km south of the Fukushima Daiichi plant. Considering how high the radiation reaching the west coast of NA is (according to the above mentioned idiots) I must be terribly radiation resistant. Seeing as the sensitive radiation detectors on site don't detect this radiation (yet were able to detect the tiny amount of radiation released in an accident 2 years back) I'm going to have to propose a widely complicated conspiracy theory.

By stewartt1982 (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Denise: "How about really general adult ed services that focus on building skills like cooking etc. It’s not much but it’s SOMETHING- which is better than nothing**"

Sorry, he already spent seven years getting an associates degree. We are working with the state's Department of Vocational Rehabilitation to get employment. He does have skills, he just had other issues that require accommodation. Like his short term memory problems, his anxiety and general symptoms of high functioning autism.

The point of me getting him out of the door and on the bus, is if I do that once he will then do it again for himself. The problem is the unfamiliar location.

I have a defective immune system and am aware that I am susceptible to any illness I may encounter. And it is likely to be fatal. People! Your pseudoscience is putting me at extreme risk although I try to do everything available to me to protect myself. Which isn't much. You have no right to have your unfounded beliefs kill me.

Narad @80:

So her "take-home point" is that doctors whose patients are on immuno-suppressants should be making house calls even for the routine appointments?

I would wish her luck persuading an array of neurologists, rheumatologists, pulmonologists, etc.—and the dentists, eye doctors, gynecologists, dermatologists, dentists, and general practitioners who people with conditions like MS, asthma, and rheumatoid arthritis also need to see—to make house calls, if I thought for a moment that she actually meant to provide medical care outside clinics to immuno-suppressed patients.

Yes, there are doctors who make house calls, at need. But not for "I need my eyes checked, and by the way I have been taking an immune suppressant for the last six years" much less "I need my teeth cleaned, and might need a cavity filled." I've seen mobile dental offices, but going there wouldn't mean not exposing yourself to random strangers who might have the measles.

#94
"This is a preventable tragedy."
ATTENTION NLP STUDENTS: Add the above phrase to your Majic Word List. USE IT OFTEN. Remember, it's all about PROGRAMMING. Logic and context is IRRELEVANT.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Myself: "Like his short term memory problems, his anxiety and general symptoms of high functioning autism."

I should mention that outside of the anxiety and other some issues are common among us who seem to function normally. It is that he and others with autism have them to a higher degree. I am always anxious when I go into a new situation or try to find someplace I have never been to, but once I do it, sometimes with someone else... I can do it again alone.

The short term memory is a real problem. This requires strategies like making a list, and repeated instruction for certain tasks. It took a few weeks before he could push the right buttons on the washing machine, and now he does it automatically.

Yet another example of Toto(ly wrong) completely demolishing its own argument by quoting someone who disagrees:

"The levels are only detectable by sophisticated equipment able to discern minute quantities of radioactivity," said Ken Buesseler, a WHOI marine chemist, who is leading the monitoring effort. "Most people don't realize that there was already cesium in Pacific waters prior to Fukushima, but only the cesium-137 isotope. Cesium-137 undergoes radioactive decay with a 30-year half-life and was introduced to the environment during atmospheric weapons testing in the 1950s and '60s. Along with cesium-137, we detected cesium-134 – which also does not occur naturally in the environment and has a half-life of just two years. Therefore the only source of this cesium-134 in the Pacific today is from Fukushima."

and -- "This Fukushima-derived cesium is far below where one might expect any measurable risk to human health or marine life, according to international health agencies. And it is more than 1000 times lower than acceptable limits in drinking water set by US EPA."

https://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=83397&tid=3622&cid=205589&c=2

I'm surprised there wasn't a paean to zeolite in Toto's rant.

By Scottynuke (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ Chris:

Right. I wonder if he might be helped by some electronic prompting via phone/ text?

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Denice, one of the other issues is actually getting him to use his cell phone.

@ Chris:

Oh boy.
Well at least he DOES learn to perform these tasks altho' it may take longer.- which means more work for the teacher.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

“This Fukushima-derived cesium is far below where one might expect any measurable risk to human health or marine life, ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL HEALTH AGENCIES."
That's the rub. "Experts" tend to disagree (or LIE).
http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150630/1024059107.html
Why is it the German’s get it for testing for radioactivity in food? This pig is still HOT from Chernobyl!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11068298/Radio…

The U.S. does ZIPPO for testing Pacific fish. Fukushima was just in 2011….
http://enenews.com/alarmed-lesions-reported-50-sockeye-salmon-experts-b…

"Japan’s Leader on 3/11: Most don’t know, but Reactor 1 melted down in 5 hours; We almost lost 1/3 of nation due to Fukushima — Tepco: Reactor 3 melted earlier than reported, water went in wrong pipes — NHK: Investigation into how such massive amounts of radioactive substances were released”
http://enenews.com/japans-leader-during-311-reactor-1-had-meltdown-only… (VIDEO)

Maybe China’s real fears were radiation...
"KUOW, Dec. 13, 2013: China Imposes First-Ever West Coast Shellfish Ban [...] China has suspended imports of shellfish from the west coast of the United States — an unprecedented move [...] China said it decided to impose the ban after recent shipments of geoduck clams from Northwest waters were found by its own government inspectors to have high levels of arsenic and a toxin that causes paralytic shellfish poisoning. The restriction took effect last week and China’s government says it will continue indefinitely. It applies to clams, oysters and all other two-shelled bivalves harvested from the waters of Washington, Oregon, Alaska and Northern California. [...] “It’s had an incredible impact,” said George Hill, the geoduck harvest coordinator for Puget Sound’s Suquamish Tribe. “A couple thousand divers out of work right now.” [...] Officials say the investigation is ongoing but the closure could last for months.”
http://enenews.com/unprecedented-china-bans-all-imports-of-shellfish-fr…

"Fukushima forecast used by gov’t shows nuclear waste crossing ocean in single massive cluster — “Maximum concentration propagates eastward in Pacific toward U.S.” — Highest levels worldwide remain along coast of N. America through 2026”

http://enenews.com/fukushima-forecast-govt-shows-nuclear-waste-crossing…

Understanding the Ongoing Nuclear Disaster in Fukushima: A “Two-Headed Dragon” Descends into the Earth’s Biosphere
MUST READ:
http://japanfocus.org/-fujioka-atsushi/3599

"The Amount of Radiation Released from Fukushima Daiichi
Since the explosions that breached their housing structures, the reactors have been exposed to the open air, and they continue to leak radiation. On March 15, the highest level of emission was recorded: 200 tb/hour (tb=terabecquerel; one terabecquerel = one trillion becquerels). After the initial crisis, levels began to decline on March 21, and the average emission level for May dropped to 0.0002 tb/hour (two billion becquerels) and for June to 0.001 tb (one billion becquerels). By June, the level dropped to 1/200,000th of what it had been on March 15.14
Of course, the danger remains that a large aftershock could further compromise the already badly damaged reactors, and any damage to plant pipelines or underground containment structures could also lead to a sudden increase in emissions. The eastern part of Fukushima prefecture was hit with aftershocks of magnitude 6.4 on July 1 and 6.0 on August 12. At roughly the same times, there were incidents of radioactive steam escaping from cracks in the ground inside the plant compound. Professor Robert Jacobs of Hiroshima City University pointed out that the danger was not that the reactors could disintegrate, but that the molten cores might escape the buildings and let off significant radiation.
How much radiation in total has been released into the atmosphere by the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant since March 11? As of April, Tokyo Electric (TEPCO) and the government estimated total emissions at 370,000 tb, but at a June 6 press conference they revised this figure substantially upward to 770,000 tb.
How much radiation was released into water (including cooling water in the plant, underground water, and the ocean)? As of July 20, the amount of contaminated water accumulated in the four reactor buildings and turbine structures totaled approximately 96,000 tons. If we add to this the 22,000 tons transferred from the reactor structures to central waste processing facilities at the plant, the total amount of contaminated water now accumulated inside the plant is 117,000 tons.15 TEPCO estimates the total radiation in this contaminated water at about 800,000 tb; if this figure is close to being correct, it means that the amount of radiation in this on-site water is roughly equal to the total amount released into the atmosphere—a massive contamination of water.
Radioactive Water and Contamination in the Oceans
While both are radiation leaks, there is a significant difference in environmental impact between leaks into the atmosphere and those contained within the plant‘s cooling water. The 770,000 tb released into the atmosphere immediately spread beyond the plant to contaminate the environment outside the plant.
The situation is different with the 800,000 tb emitted into plant cooling water. From the total of 117,000 tons of contaminated water, it has been reported that 520 tons were discharged into the ocean outside the plant, producing a radiation leak of 4720 tb. If this information is accurate, this means that 99.6% of the contaminated water, including 99.4% of the total radiation that has been emitted into water, remains inside the plant facility and is not believed to present an immediate threat to the environment outside the plant.16
But we would be mistaken to conclude from this date that the contamination of the ocean is not a major concern. First, we need to note that compared to normal environmental standards, 4720 tb of radiation is an extraordinarily high figure. The maximum annual limit for radiation emissions into the ocean for the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant was 0.24 tb. Despite this, contaminated water containing radiation at 20,000 times this limit was discharged into the ocean over a period of four months.
Moreover, the estimated figures give no information about what will happen with radioactivity released into the atmosphere or ground. Eventually, nearly all of the radiation released into the atmosphere will fall to the surface to be absorbed into the ground or ocean. Radiation that settles on the ground in Japan will be washed away by rain into rivers that ultimately flow into the ocean. Clearly, in the long term most of the radiation released into the atmosphere will end up being absorbed into the ocean. It seems inevitable that through these multiple routes, radiation levels in the ocean will rise, accelerating the biological concentration of radiation, which will in turn gradually move up the food chain to concentrate in the bodies of larger fish and, finally, human beings.17 "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1W-fJpgZr0&list=UUCKfnF5ZL54Bvxkfy6Zui…
Plan filed to build toxic water dumping facility at Fukushima plant
http://mainichi.jp/english/english/newsselect/news/20140812p2g00m0dm026…

"Radioactive substances, such as TRITIUM and CESIUM, have been detected in some water samples from the wells. TEPCO says it aims to clean the water to a level that would do no harm to the environment, but tritium will remain untreated as no water treatment facility at the plant is capable of removing the substance.”

http://www.livescience.com/38844-fukushima-radioactive-water-leaks.html

Fukushima Radiation Contaminated Cars From Japan Being Refused And Shipped Back By Multiple Countries

http://fukushimavoice-eng.blogspot.com/2012/01/from-hokkaido-twins-that…
"Global Research asks a good question; "The fundamental question is whether the vast array of industrial goods and components “Made in Japan” — including hi tech components, machinery, electronics, motor vehicles, etc — and exported Worldwide are contaminated? Were this to be the case, the entire East and Southeast Asian industrial base –which depends heavily on Japanese components and industrial technology– would be affected. The potential impacts on international trade would be far reaching. In this regard, in January, Russian officials confiscated irradiated Japanese automobiles and auto parts in the port of Vladivostok for sale in the Russian Federation. Needless to say, incidents of this nature in a global competitive environment, could lead to the demise of the Japanese automobile industry which is already in crisis.

While most of the automotive industry is in central Japan, Nissan’s engine factory in Iwaki city is 42 km from the Fukushima Daiichi plant. Is the Nissan work force affected? Is the engine plant contaminated? The plant is within about 10 to 20 km of the government’s “evacuation zone” from which some 200,000 people were evacuated..."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/fukushima-a-nuclear-war-without-a-war-the-…

Meltdown at Fukushima reactor 3 worse than thought
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/english/news/20140806_21.html

http://www.komonews.com/news/national/US-sailors-sue-Japanese-utility-o…
U.S. sailors sue Japanese utility over tsunami radiation

Kawasaki city mayor, “School serves radioactive lunch for educational purpose.”
Tokyo newspaper reported Abe, the city mayor of Kawasaki stated they serve radioactive school lunch for educational purpose. “Students need to know they live in danger by consuming radioactive school lunch.”
http://fukushima-diary.com/2012/09/kawasaki-city-mayor-school-serves-ra…

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3532172.htm
"I think it's impossible for Fukushima's fishing industry to recover in my lifetime," he tells me. "Even if we do get back on our feet, who's going to buy our fish?" he asks with a shrug.

A few days after our expedition off Fukushima the results of our haul came in - about a quarter of the catch has radiation levels exceeding the safe limit, with one fish 16 times over the limit, more bad news for Akira Kaya and his fellow Fukushima fisherman."

Tip: buy food grown south of the equator. Only a couple of reactors down there. Circulating winds keep radiation north of the equator, at least for now… Stay out of the rain.

http://enenews.com/listen-gundersen-ive-working-west-coast-test-radioac…

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

@Scottynuke
#118
Fukushima WAS A PREVENTABLE TRAGEDY. Who in their right mind would build 3 nuke plants over a shallow water table (outflow to Pacific Ocean) and unstable earthquake zone???????? All resulting CANCERS from resulting radiation exposure are INDUSTRY PREVENTABLE CANCERS.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

More work for everyone, including his parents and the job training vendor.

#118
ScottyRedShirt- Check out this research:

"Elevated airborne beta levels in Pacific/West Coast US States and trends in hypothyroidism among newborns after the Fukushima nuclear meltdown"
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=28599
" Large amounts of fallout disseminated worldwide from the meltdowns in four reactors at the Fukushima-Dai-ichi plant in Japan beginning March 11, 2011 included radioiodine isotopes. Just days after the meltdowns, I-131 concentrations in US precipitation was measured up to 211 times above normal. Highest levels of I-131 and airborne gross beta were documented in the five US States on the Pacific Ocean. The number of congenital hypothyroid cases in these five states from March 17-December 31, 2011 was 16% greater than for the same period in 2010, compared to a 3% decline in 36 other US States (p < 0.03). The greatest divergence in these two groups (+28%) occurred in the period March 17-June 30 (p < 0.04)."

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

#118
WASHINGTON CANCER RATE
"In 2011, 49,386 Washington State residents died. More than a quarter of those deaths were among people younger than age 65. CANCER was the leading cause of death overall followed by heart disease."
Leading causes of death are classified and ranked according to the List of 113 Selected Causes of Death and guidelines published by the National Center for Health Statistics.3
During 2009–2011 combined Washington’s 10 leading causes of death were: CANCER (25%), heart disease (22%)... #10 pneumonia (1%).
http://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/5500/GHS-MLE2013.pdf
PP. 1-2

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

#114
"I have a defective immune system and am aware that I am susceptible to any illness"

COULD YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC? What is your medical diagnosis? Were you born this way, or is it due to some treatment?
Sadly, you have misplaced hope in vaccines. Trust in the Lord.

"Measles Control in the United States: Problems of the Past and Challenges for the Future

DAVID L. WOOD* AND PHILIP A. BRUNELL
Ahmanson Department of Pediatrics, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles, California 90048
CLINICAL MICROBIOLOGY REVIEWS, Apr. 1995, p. 260–267 0893-8512/95/$04.000
Copyright 1995, American Society for Microbiology
http://cmr.asm.org/content/8/2/260.full.pdf

"Is the mumps vaccine effective?
Yes, despite my earlier concerns that the vaccine may have been ineffective, it appears that the best possible way to be protected remains receiving 2 doses of vaccine. However, the vaccine does not always “take” and since there is a “wear“ off” phenomenon, this allows for even vaccinated individuals to contract the mumps.

Children who have been given a dose of MMR at age 1 and again at age 4 seem to be protected in the vast majority of cases up until around age 12.

Beyond age 12 (including adults) immunity seems to wear off to levels that are not protective in a significant percentage of individuals."
http://crownheights.info/psa/24436/mumps-virus-alert-dr-rosen-addresses…

http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/sweden-admits-the-swine-flu-vaccine-ca…

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Elevated airborne beta levels in Pacific/West Coast US States and trends in hypothyroidism among newborns after the Fukushima nuclear meltdown

"Large amounts of fallout disseminated worldwide from the meltdowns in four reactors at the Fukushima-Dai-ichi plant in Japan beginning March 11, 2011 included radioiodine isotopes. Just days after the meltdowns, I-131 concentrations in US precipitation was measured up to 211 times above normal. Highest levels of I-131 and airborne gross beta were documented in the five US States on the Pacific Ocean. The number of congenital hypothyroid cases in these five states from March 17-December 31, 2011 was 16% greater than for the same period in 2010, compared to a 3% decline in 36 other US States (p < 0.03). The greatest divergence in these two groups (+28%) occurred in the period March 17-June 30 (p < 0.04). Further analysis, in the US and in other nations, is needed to better understand any association between iodine exposure from Fukushima-Dai-ichi and congenital hypothyroidism risk."
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=28599

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Amy St Hilaire: "Setting the stage. They wasted no time. This is tragic absolutely. And what did they say, she passed in the spring? Did they wait this long to have an autopsy? Bring this out now, two days after CA signs BS277 and it is from a different state...perfect to infect the whole country with PANic and misinformation. Federal bill...I can't wait."

"BS277" — innocent transposition of letters, a Freudian slip, or intentional?

By Christopher Winter (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Yah, Linda1/LZ is all over the autopsy thing, too. The Seattle Times, IIRC, placed the death at "three months ago." Twelve weeks isn't exactly a wildly anomalous length of time to get back results.

Pharphis, check this out:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/05/07/andrew-wakefield-attractin…

Especially this part:

Sadly, Wakefield continues to do his part to discredit any such research. Just yesterday, I learned of an interview he did with someone called “Billy D” from something called CalJam. Billy D happens to be Billy DeMoss, a chiroquackter from California for whom it appears there is no pseudoscience too evidence-free to embrace, be it cleansing, antivaccine nonsense, or thermography (which, currently, when used as a screening tool for breast cancer, is quackery). No wonder he totally gushes over Wakefield, inserting his proboscis so far up Wakefield’s posterior that if you did an esophagoscopy on Wakefield you could easily pick it. Yes, I know that’s a disgusting metaphor, but it’s no more disgusting that this fawning interview. Listen to it if you dare. The things I do for blogging material.

(there is this search box at the top of the page)

Of course, if you look at it by school district, the story is different. For instance, the Sequim School District only has 83.3% complete MMR in 6th grade. Port Townsend, right next to the county, has a 79.5% completion rate, both below herd immunity.
Sure. There are also entire counties that are under 90% for MMR, and it's not like a whooping cough outbreak is a good thing. Just saying that the 48% reported rate is somewhat deceptive (interesting that there's such a large variance between pertussis and everything else; does Washington have something unusual about its pertussis requirement?).

#105
THE LYING LIARS
"Measles is a particular worry, because the disease was eradicated in the U.S. in 2000 but has sparked outbreaks among certain communities of unvaccinated children and adults nationwide. It’s a highly contagious virus that can cause deafness, seizures, brain damage and death, particularly in children."
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/amid-outbreaks-measles-…

MEASLES VACCINE SETTLED SCIENCE:
3 out of 3 CDC doctors agree:
"Epidemiologic Basis for Eradication of Measles in 1967” (CDC)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1919891/pdf/pubhealthrepori…

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Don't Shed on Me
DO NO HARM:
"When administered without consent, a vaccine injection is a physical violation of a human body. The substance contained in the vaccine is provably harmful and, in some cases, even deadly. Under Ohio sentencing guidelines, an individual forcing a vaccination upon someone without their consent would be committing a "felonious assault with dangerous ordnance."

Federal sentencing guidelines and vaccine violence

Under federal sentencing guidelines, a vaccine assault upon an individual without their consent would be considered an "aggravated assault," part of the category of sentencing covering "offenses against the persons."

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/049511_SB_277_vaccine_violence_medical_assau…

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

I can't bring myself to read everything after the indictment of nuclear reactors in WA because I might get too stabby. People here have been legitimately injured from the Hanford site. Back in the 40's and 50's, and even later, they had little idea exactly how bad the stuff they were working with was. My mom watched her father die in his 30's, a slow painful death from full systemic cancer. My stepdad has been "crapped up" and gotten the wire brush treatment. There are a lot of payouts going on right now for the old cancer victims and such. We're still stuck with this horrible radioactive mess out the site that may never be completely removed. The actual reactor that is still going is the safest damn thing out there.

...Hanford is also completely across the fucking state from where this woman died.

By Spamamander (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

"‘Measles inclusion body encephalitis’ is characterized by ‘persistent measles virus infection, causing inflammation in both the white and gray matter and characterized by the presence of nuclear inclusion bodies.‘

‘We report a case of measles inclusion-body encephalitis (MIBE) occurring in an apparently healthy 21-month-old boy 8.5 months after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination. He had no prior evidence of immune deficiency and no history of measles exposure or clinical disease. During hospitalization, a primary immunodeficiency characterized by a profoundly depressed CD8 cell count and dysgammaglobulinemia was demonstrated.‘

Note: ‘The presence of measles virus in the brain tissue was confirmed by reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction. The nucleotide sequence in the nucleoprotein and fusion gene regions was identical to that of the Moraten and Schwarz vaccine strains; the fusion gene differed from known genotype A wild-type viruses.‘ Clinical Infectious Diseases 1999 Oct;29(4):855-61"

REQUIRED DOCUMENTATION FOR THE CITIZENS TO BELIEVE THE "MEASLES DEATH" report:
Now, regarding the woman's autopsy, where did they find the measles virus? How much? Photo documentation from actual infected tissue (no in vitro)? Was this confirmed by reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction? What was the nucleotide sequence in the nucleoprotein and fusion gene region? Was it genotype A wild-type virus? OR A VACCINE STRAIN? What is on the autopsy report?

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

#139
I am truly sorry for the suffering /death of your family members. These are the kind of incidents that should be exposed and compensated for. My recent comments have mainly been regarding the radioactive fallout (air born) from Fukushima as well as radiation carried by ocean currents to the West and Pacific Northwest coast. Many areas in the U.S. have been exposed and will continue to be exposed. Three cores melted down and many fear they have "left the building". Let's focus on eliminating preventable industrial cancer instead of criminalizing parents who protect their children from vaccine induced injuries. Any treatment that relies on DESTROYING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM, is not a viable treatment. Blaming the situation on vaccine noncompliance is a distraction and is IMMORAL.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

Bill takes BIRTH CONTROL to the next level:
https://www.google.com/search?q=bill+gate++game+controller+photo&client…

"The complete bypassing of pills, injections - things that one actively chooses and takes - to a passive acceptance of remote controlled wireless chips quietly and somehow pumping substance for up to 16 years? Or is it more public relations for the long-time push for the coming ''brain chip''?

But first to roll out will probably be the wirelessly controlled birth-control implanted device backed by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. "
http://www.activistpost.com/2015/06/deal-reached-wireless-remote-drug.h…

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 04 Jul 2015 #permalink

You mean he didn’t hold a measles party for all the unvaccinated kids around, so that they could enjoy getting natural immunity? That’s shocking!

No he was a selfish bastard*.

*Now if only I could remember how to do the emotes.

Why wasn’t the measles strain reported to the press?

Because it is not all about you ken.

This thread has to score 11/10 for constructed reality hiding as pseudo science - well done.

More vaccine mythology masquerading as news. How many times are we gonna hear 'someone dies from measles' and when we look at the facts we find, missed measles only identified at autopsy in someone already stuffed from immune deficiency - I mean if you have to cherry pick your bodies to jack up support for vaccine mandates - are you serious!

We don't seem to find any well people dying from measles in the West, only people on immuno drugs or already with 'underlying conditions'. When are you guys gonna wake up and look at some real facts?

It's like I leave you guys swimming in your own ejaculate for a while, hoping some science might appear and it's like Groundhog day.

Disney - the official CDC was ' an unknown women probably stayed at Disney who was probably unvaccinated and whereabouts unknown'!

Next you will be quoting Saint Lilady on some nuff about vaccines saving lifes - do you guys chant?

So this is the kind of journalism that supports the idea that vaccines save lives, right?

I am antivaccine – there is no provaccine conspiracy here – just a really banal story that has about as much weight as the Jehovah witness do on life.

Hey O boy, you felt compelled to write a piece like this – this is what we are up against – LOL.

Frank Bruni at the New York Times does not hold back his criticisms of Kennedy, Carrey, and their boot-lickers:

The anti-vaccine crowd’s bloated language is matched by its narcissism. The whole reason that parents in this paranoid tribe can deem the risk of not immunizing their children acceptable is that they’re counting on other parents to immunize their children and thus create the so-called herd immunity that’s the whole point of mandatory vaccinations.

and

Vaccine opponents are climate-change deniers with less gluten and more Prada, chalking up the fact that they’re in a minority to the gutless groupthink of the majority.

Read the whole thing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/05/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-california…?

#148
I know about the NEW YORK TIMES...HA HA HA HA HA HA !
But who is this "Frank Bruni" that can't construct a viable paragraph, AND WHY SHOULD WE CARE?

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 05 Jul 2015 #permalink

Another good pro-vax, pro-SB277 article, for a woman who apparently had a severe reaction to a vaccine, and eventually became pro-vaccine:

Whatever the reason for my reaction, I became terrified of vaccines, and vehemently refused to get so much as a flu shot.

But as the debate heated up over the next few years, I watched in horror as vaccine-preventable diseases like measles started reappearing in the U.S.

And I realized that for the most part, getting vaccinated isn't about me. It's about the elderly, babies, people with cancer and autoimmune diseases — anyone who is most likely to be harmed by the diseases that vaccines have or are in the process of eradicating.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/lived-nightmare-keeps-anti-vaccine-153900…

More on how they views us....

According to dear Mikey, we're all *terrorists* - today, NaturalNews:

"FEAR is new weapon in Greece: EU leaders resort to same terror tactics as US vaccine industry to scare everyone into irrational obedience"

It's "social engineering terrorism" to tighten vaccine exemption in the wake of a VPD outbreak, after which, a "media frenzy" ensued: "vaccine terror propagandists" like Paul Offit ply their trade whilst vaccine manufacturers "openly admit.. felony crimes".

"Greece is only the beginning" says Mike:
those like him who grow their own food, hoard precious metals and foresee total collapse/ meltdown/ Apocalypse/ Ragnarok headed their way soon now look like
"geniuses".

I swear, I swear I actually read that and copied it carefully.

-btw- my computer keeps displaying economic news automatically as it occurs but for some reason, Mike seems as over-the-top as usual.
Not that HE would ever stoop to scare tactics,

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 05 Jul 2015 #permalink
Why wasn’t the measles strain reported to the press?

Because it is not all about you ken.

I certainly hope Ken's not yammering about Disneyland.

Johnny that was brilliant. Lmfao. Maybe you should start a blog

What an obvious planned story

"How “they” view “us”: A woman dies of measles, and antivaccinationists think it’s a conspiracy.

Well no, we view you as a disaffected group of pseudo science believers that believe only that which is published in medical peer review is real! I mean that is the funniest part of it.

You also have delusions of grandeur, you actually believe only your opinion is valid, you fabricate news on the flimsiest of facts and fill in the rest with balony.

You have Saints and bishops, some of your ideas like vaccination are so left field they defy trials with false placebo and incongruous conclusions. When these issue are pointed out, you ban comment, you diss dissenters by character assassination rather than reasoned debate.

There is only about 10 of you, but you make a lot of nose, most of it tiresome.

"But as the debate heated up over the next few years, I watched in horror as vaccine-preventable diseases like measles started reappearing in the U.S.

And I realized that for the most part, getting vaccinated isn’t about me. It’s about the elderly, babies, people with cancer and autoimmune diseases ..........." Nice PR LIzzy, lovely medical anecdote, so let's base a national vaccine strategy on an insecure woman who obviously needs lots of attention......sound familiar?

Suddenly an anecdote is worthy news, well I suppose if we are used to vaccine research being spawned from Offitdotes and Bill Gate dotes and little lady duvets then anything is possible. Can we have a Disney Paris medical anecdote or am I pre-empting something?

Have the guts to allow critique of your sad state of affairs

johnny@147

We don’t seem to find any well people dying from measles in the West, only people on immuno drugs or already with ‘underlying conditions’.

Because preventable deaths don't matter so long as they are already immunocompromised. Not to mention that this is demonstrably untrue what with SSPE being nondiscriminating.

Next you will be quoting Saint Lilady on some nuff about vaccines saving lifes – do you guys chant?

You really are a dirtbag, huh?

By capnkrunch (not verified) on 05 Jul 2015 #permalink

Johnny's post was almost as good as something Mikey would write.Maybe he ought to try submitting to Natural News.

By Roger Kulp (not verified) on 05 Jul 2015 #permalink

"I swear, I swear I actually read that and copied it carefully."

UH, DENISE, don't you know how to use CUT AND PASTE?
Pharma must pay you by the hour......

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 05 Jul 2015 #permalink

#159 TK Thanks

SHUT UP Sarah Silverstein. Why don't you join Bloomberg in The City of London?

"A WHO assessment of the cause of the DEATH OF 15 CHILDREN in rural Idleb, northern Syria has concluded that the most likely cause of the event was the incorrect use of a drug called Atracurium as a diluent for MEASLES/Rubella VACCINE."

"Measles vaccine has to be reconstituted with a diluent prior to use. All EVIDENCE AVAILABLE to the assessment team indicates that the incorrect use of Atracurium as a diluent was the cause of the deaths. Atracurium is a muscle relaxant and is used mainly as part of the anaesthetic procedure for surgery. The Atracurium ampoules were INCORRECTLY added to vaccination packs prepared in one DistricteaslesVACCINE Distribution Centre in Idleb Governorate and distributed to four vaccination teams on the second day of the MEASLES campaign."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/statements/2014/interim-findings-id…

15 CHILDREN DEAD from "safe and effective" vaccines. Yeah. Regardless of what's in a vaccine, there is ALWAYS the risk of stupid HUMAN ERROR.

BUT OF COURSE THE trumped up "OCCULT MEASLES" case makes headline news....

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 05 Jul 2015 #permalink

Interesting new findings on measles suggest it wipes the immune system's memory of previous infectious agents... eliminating immunity already acquired to other infectious diseases.

This anti-science movement, exemplified by the anti-immunization trend, is just evolution in action... children of stoopid parents are less likely to survive.

By Michael McGinnis (not verified) on 05 Jul 2015 #permalink

AND THE SUSPECTS ARE:
TURKEY, RUSSIA, MALAYSIA, JAPAN, AND THE U.K.
LOOKS LIKE D9 GETS AROUND....JUST A PLANE RIDE AWAY!
CAN'T BLAME U.S. KIDS ON THIS ONE.

"This study describes the molecular characterization of 26 MV strains (3 from 2010, 23 from 2011) obtained from urine or throat swabs harvested from patients in Turkey. MV RNA samples (n = 26) were subjected to sequence analysis of 450 nucleotides comprising the most variable C-terminal region of the nucleoprotein (N) gene. Phylogenetic analysis revealed 20 strains from 2011 belonged to genotype D9, 3 to D4, 2 strains from 2010 to genotype D4 and 1 to genotype B3. This study represents the first report describing the involvement of MV genotype D9 in an outbreak in Turkey. The sequence of the majority of genotype D9 strains was identical to those identified in Russia, Malaysia, Japan, and the UK."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23959542

Remember, the mere presence of a virus is not conclusive evidence that a person died from it. Where did they find it? How much? WHAT ELSE WAS IN THE AUTOPSY REPORT?

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 05 Jul 2015 #permalink

“Why wasn’t the measles strain reported to the press?”

Actually they did. D9 strain. Not a vacine strain.

Ah, so just a warmed-over version of the Disneyland conspiracy. The desperation can be smelled from a mile away.

ken -- are we allowed to be concerned about only one disease at a time?

"Have the guts to allow critique of your sad state of affairs"

So Johnny's baseless and clueless asshat ramblings are now "critique"? Yeah, right. Pot meet kettle.

The sad and tragic history of America's first cancer hospital....

Note: Ironically, Charlotte Astor is one of Toto's ancestors. It appears that her motives to build the hospital included helping cure her own uterine cancer:
"John Jacob Astor's wife, Charlotte Augusta Astor also died of uterine cancer just a week shy of the hospital's grand opening in December 1887, missing her chance to be presumably cured. Due in part to his generous financial contributions to the facility, the New York Cancer Hospital's first wing was appropriately dedicated the "Astor Pavilion".

Even though initially, no one was cured, the East India Company types would have had a brisk business providing morphine:
"During the hospital's inauguration, treatment for cancer was mostly palliative. The hospital offered what was considered the best treatments available for that time. Cancer treatment then meant, at best, easing pain and making the sufferer as comfortable as possible. Many patients came to the New York Cancer Hospital, in effect, to die, assuaged by morphine."

The "modern" method of treating cancer with RADIUM wasn't much better:
"The 20th century brought new techniques in cancer treatment, including radiation therapy. In 1921, Marie Curie visited the New York Cancer Hospital, by then renamed the General Memorial Hospital for the Treatment of Cancer and Allied Diseases, to see the brick and steel vault where the hospital kept its four grams of radium—at the time the largest accumulation in the world. Dr. Edward H. Rogers, who was escorting her, assured The Times that there is no case on record of anyone being injured in health by radium. He denied that Curie had been harmed by the radioactive material, saying she had been ill recently only from anemia. In this period the hazards of radium were beginning to emerge, sparking defensive claims by its proponents. She died in 1934, unsurprisingly due to radium poisoning. In retrospect, early radiation treatments were often worse than the disease they were meant to cure. Radiation caused severe burns and, in some cases, additional cancers. New York Cancer Hospital may have been hailed a success for its good intentions, but there was no end to the suffering of those within. Plagued by the growing death rate, the NYCH had its own crematorium located in the basement of the facility, all the more dreadful by the vision, through its gothic windows, of the tall smokestack to the west of the main building." NO ONE WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT VACCINE HERD IMMUNITY.

The original Astor hospital location was moved. "In 1955, the General Memorial Hospital for the Treatment of Cancer and Allied Diseases moved out of the outdated Central Park West facility to its new location on the East Side. There it grew to become what is present day Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Cancer_Hospital
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jacob_Astor_III

"Charity Watch rates Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center an "A." Heads of the charity received $1,955,000 to $2,557,000 salary/compensation from the charity. Harold E. Varmus, M.D. Past President/CEO, received $2,557,403 salary/compensation from the charity, which is the most money given by any charity to the head of that charity, according to Charity Watch.[6]"
Rockefeller money is involved as well. Originally, "Most of the RADIUM in the U.S. comes from Colorado mines and is processed by Rockefeller's Standard Oil Company." p. 198 https://books.google.com/books?id=pDfh1hRtuIYC&pg=PA198&lpg=PA198&dq=ro…

"Memorial Sloan Kettering also partners with Weill Cornell Medical College and The Rockefeller University to offer an MD/PhD program for aspiring physician-scientists."
https://www.mskcc.org/history-milestones

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Sloan_Kettering_Cancer_Center
AFTER ALL THESE YEARS AND MONEY$$$$$$$$, WHY ISN'T CANCER CURED? It seems their current strategy is FORCED VACCINATION!

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 05 Jul 2015 #permalink

Mikey has finally woken up from 4th July to discover a woman in the US has died from measles.

Except in Mikey's world, she was "KILLED by Western medicine".

Not just an ordinary killed, but an all Caps Lock killed.

Although Mikey can't quite make up his mind which bit of Western medicine KILLED her. It might have been Big Pharma medications, or being victimized by the medical establishment, or maybe just from the false sense of protection from a failed measles vaccine.

Actually elsewhere I have been having interesting (for some definitions of interesting) discussions with a group of anti-vaxxers who usually inhabit AoA, but were let out for the weekend, and Mikey's screed could have been crafted word for word from their posts. It is uncanny, there is not just one person as batshït crazy as Mikey.

Still can't find a Western measles death that was someone who wasn't 'immune compromised' and wasn't dying of something else?

We are waiting

I mean, 'immune compromised', is that one of your weasel terms for dying anyway - it's a bit like saying 'the patient had no circulation and died from measles'. I suppose if you are a vaccine believer and a doctor it all makes sense in the end.

It wasn't the car crash that killed her, it was the sudden stop at the end.

I guess that goes to the basic saying-- absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Agree though, there is a difference in a professional health care provider vs some joker googling & regurgitating garbage over the internet.

Measles in Washington State

2014 http://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/5100/420-002-epitrends2014-06…

Almost all"personal belief exemptions" and people who travel to Philippines,some overlapping here.

Measles Incidence and Measles Viral Genotypes

During 1998–2014, the number of annual reported measles cases varied in relation to supplementary immunization activities (SIAs), declining after SIAs were conducted and then increasing in subsequent years (Figure 1). Overall, annual reported measles cases and incidence per 1 million population decreased from 1,984 and 27.1 in 1998 to nine and 0.1 in 2006 and then increased to 21,403 and 233.2 in 2014. On the basis of SIAs conducted, 2007–2014 can be divided into two periods (Figure 1). During the 2007–2011 inter-SIA period,** 14,142 measles cases were reported. During the 2011–2014 inter-SIA period††, 58,700 measles cases were reported. At the national level, the proportion of measles cases in children aged 9 months–4 years decreased from 38% in the first inter-SIA period to 28% in the second inter-SIA period, and the proportion of measles cases in adolescents and adults aged ≥15 years increased from 18% in the first period to 29% in the second period (Table 2). The nationwide measles resurgence started with outbreaks in Calabarzon (Region 4A), Central Luzon (Region 3), the Cordillera Autonomous Region (CAR), and Western Visayas (Region 6) during the first half of 2013 and spread to many parts of Luzon and Visayas geographical divisions during October–December 2013. Outbreak response immunization activities targeting children aged 6–59 months were implemented in Calabarzon, Central Luzon, and the National Capital Region during January–February 2014; however, by that time the whole country was affected by measles outbreaks (Figure 2). After implementation of the nationwide SIA in September 2014 targeting children aged 9–59 months, 642 (37%) of the 1,719 measles cases during October–December 2014 were in persons aged ≥15 years (Table 2). The predominant measles virus genotype was D3 before 2007, then D9 and G3 during 2007–2009 (4) and D9 during 2010–2012. During 2013–2014, of 69 cases with genotyping, 68 were B3 and one was D9. Genotypes D3 and G3 have not been reported since 2005 and 2010, respectively.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6413a5.htm

By Roger Kulp (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

I mean, ‘immune compromised’, is that one of your weasel terms for dying anyway

No. Thanks for asking.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

still can’t find a Western measles death that was someone who wasn’t ‘immune compromised’ and wasn’t dying of something else?

I see that false johnny is still pretending that German toddler didn't exist.

Have the guts to allow critique of your sad state of affairs

Nym-stealing chickensh1t feckmuppet demands "guts" from others. Nope, I never expected that!

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

In other news, there is a killfile addin for Chrome that works perfectly and is even more user friendly than Tampermonkey here. It lets you hide all the comments by any commenter you care to ignore.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ ChrisP:

I read that atrocious bit of BS, hogwash rubbish.
Notice that Mikey quotes :Death By Medicine' ((shudder)).

Unfortunately, it appears that he gets ratings whenever he writes about vaccines, economic meltdown or both- just watch those numbers next to the article as well as ones on articles posted previously. He's been enjoying the economic crisis in Greece because he can use it to invoke fear in his readers- "The crisis will spread EVERYWHERE!"

If you think about it, invoking fear- whether it be of illness, pharmaceuticals, toxins, doctors, social unrest, economic catastrophe or natural disaster- appears to be his and the other idiot's principal mode of communication-
they manufacture a scenario replete with horrors and then offer solutions - most of which enrich them or feed their already bloated egos. 'IF you had ONLY done as I told you!"

This is entirely despicable but what would you expect from shameless, ego-centric, profit--driven charlatans?

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

There's been some discussion of holding index cases for outbreaks legally accountable. As it seems as if the source of the women's infection is identifiable, I'm wondering if there there exixts a possibility they could be found legally accountable for this women's death? Probably not criminally responsible, but perhaps via a civil action for causing wrongful death?

@Krebozian

Thanks for mentioning the Chrome addin. It works wonders.

I’m wondering if there there exixts a possibility they could be found legally accountable for this women’s death?

How do you establish negligence if he wasn't symptomatic at the time?

The AoA brain trust has now decided to extend the "shedding" gibberish hilariously further:

3. What was the pneumonia strain? (wild or vaccine strain)
4. Has she been vaccinated for pneumonia, or recently around someone who had been?

Ah yes, it must be those contagious bits of capsule saccharides.

#185 "holding index cases for outbreaks legally accountable. As it seems as if the source of the women’s infection is identifiable" I like to propose this as the logical conclusion of so called "libertarian" antivax woo which rails against " da gummint telling me wut to do". So fine, if yer negligently unvaccinated kid spreads measles thru the school, lose your house and car.

I'm impressed that Toto managed to actually post on topic for a comment or two.

By justthestats (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

More on how they view us...

Jake, Juvenile Journalist, is squawking that the Huff has removed an article that finds the film, Trace Amounts, meaningful and worthy.

Censorship by entrenched powers-that-be in the Pharmatocracy formerly known as the US of A.
-btw- wouldn't Jake's article fit right in alongside Mikey's- AND they both live in' around Austin near Andy and Alex.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

In further conspiracy news, Erin Elizabeth continues to put the lime in the Nut in Health Nut News.

The beauty of it is that they have no discernible bearing on the underlying theory of Big pHARMa hits on random "alternative" doctors.

Jake, Juvenile Journalist, is squawking that the Huff has removed an article that finds the film, Trace Amounts, meaningful and worthy.

The opening sentence of that article says -

Just weeks after “Trace Amounts” was reviewed at The Epoch Times, The Huffington Post removed the below April review of the same documentary...

Ever the good journalist, Jake gives a link to the review in question - and it's his own review, a mirror of his AI post. Not exactly a lie, but, golly, that sure strikes me as dishonest.

...wouldn’t Jake’s article fit right in alongside Mikey’s- AND they both live in’ around Austin near Andy and Alex.

Yeah, but Jake is seriously pi$$ed at "Doctor" Wakefield over "Doctor" Wakefield's outing of Thompson. Back in the early days, it was always "Doctor Wakefield", now it's just "Wakefield", and even once "de-licensed British doctor". Mikey still seems to hold "Doctor" Wakefield in high regard, so Jake would likely tell Mikey 'It's him or me…'. I don't think Mikey, or any of the other loons, would take Jake over "Doctor" Wakefield these days.

@ ( authentic) Johnny:

Sure, AJW has a lot more woo-cred than Jake and probably attracts a crowd at events like Autism One. Quite a few of the Warrior/ Thinking Moms find him to be rather deliciously hot-- personally, I don't see it..
I think that Jake had problems getting an audience at his one and only speaking engagement last year.

HOWEVER Mikey has all sorts of venues for writers, bloggers, fans and commenters at NN so you never know. Hey, he's been featured at the Bolen Report!

-btw- isn't it amazing that Mike and Jake are university graduates? I know many ESL/ EFL students who do a much better job of NOT mangling the English language.

By Denice Walter (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

They would have been better off not even taking the vaccine at all. Colloidal silver works on some things, but even measles is deadly enough not to play around with it. vaccines are a farce anyway. all they do is introduce aborted fetal cells, mercury, and a whole host of other insane toxins into the bloodstream therefore changing a person;s DNA, which may be the whole point anyway. This transhuman crap is on the rise and Apollo wants his soldiers trained well. he want's their minds. The only way to do that iss to kill the pineal gland with fluoride, then change the DNA structure of humans so they will be more willing to obey his commands. abortion is also a satanic human sacrifice ritual used by secret societies to bring froth Apollo (anti-christ) and his army. CERN is the doorway.

CALIFORNIA PRO-VAXXERS MUST DEMAND VACCINE EQUALITY!

Why is it only Cali and Iowa have to do without LIFE-SAVING THIMEROSAL IN THEIR VACCINES?
Their vaccines now COST MORE and are more DANGEROUS without it!
MANDATORY VACCINES MUST HAVE THIMEROSAL!
Liz Ditz, please work with your Assembly connections and GET THIS BILL SPONSORED NOW!
ORAC, CAN YOU HELP US OUT HERE?
Denise, Narad, CrisPy, justthestats, brian d., Krebiozen, herr doktor bimler
I'm COUNTING ON YOUR HELP! You can use NLP lines like "THE TERMINATOR IS A THIMEROSAL HATER!" or "CALIFORNIA SCHEMIN' to keep vaccines UNSAFE"
Just use your imagination......

FOR INSPIRATION:
"California bans mercury in vaccine
Wednesday, September 29, 2004
Bob Miller ~ Southeast Missourian
California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a bill Tuesday that will ban mercury in vaccines for young children and pregnant women.

Missouri considered a similar bill earlier this year and it passed overwhelmingly in the House. However, the bill stalled in the Senate and was never brought to a vote.

California is the second state to sign such a law. Iowa approved an anti-mercury bill earlier this year.

The California law states that children under 3 years old shall not be given shots that contain more than trace amounts of thimerosal, including the flu shot. The law goes into effect on July 2, 2006.

The preservative thimerosal is 50 percent mercury by weight. From the 1930s until 1999, it was used extensively for multidose vials to prevent viruses or bacteria from growing in the vaccines. Most vaccines today, with the notable exception of the flu shot, do not contain thimerosal after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention asked pharmaceutical companies to remove the substance. The request was based on what the CDC called "unclear" EVIDENCE at the time that MERCURY may be the CAUSE of an increase in AUTISM cases in the 1990s."

THIS MUST BE PASSED BEFORE KIDS GO BACK TO SCHOOL!

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

They've secretly replaced the fine commentary Narad usually serves with colloidal Folgers crystals.

For posterity.

Somebody's luck is going to run out, Phildo, and I suspect that it's not mine.

Gee, Narad, I'm disappointed. That #200 was such a great putdown of what the conspiracy mushmob say: at last those with unusable capslock keys..

By Bill Price (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

Narad@202

BTW, comment 200 isn’t me.

I assumed it was lowercase johnny/Phillip Hills given the similar distaste for proper capitalization. It's been interesting to see his impersonation attempts evolve from what may have been a legitimate collision with Johnny but still differently capitalized, to using the same capitalization, to signing off the same, and now just outright impersonating others. I'm surprised (though maybe I shouldn't be) that he still hasn't figured out that his Johnny costume is missing a piece. Thank goodness he's not quite smart enough to do some more sutble 'nym hijacking and instead just spews the same garbage with a different name.

By capnkrunch (not verified) on 06 Jul 2015 #permalink

CERN is the doorway.

Oh, look, was somebody too far in his cups not to tip his hand?

I suppose the notion does require a reference frame, viz., "fixed stars," though.*

* Just the comment capture.

re:202

Welcome to my world.

The minions noted that a minor poster such as myself was not responsible for the silliness posted in my name. Trust me, nobody on the board thought that was you.

Re 200: "colloidal silver"? Isn't it vampires it's effective against? I'm sure I saw Wesley Snipes present a couple of documentaries about that...

Somehow I have managed to send my last comment into moderation with only one link in it.

Looks like they have a thread over on mothering about this.

I guess the new strategy is to claim the reports of the man not being vaccinated with an effective measles vaccine are wrong/made up because the CDC site says that the last ineffective measles vaccine was given in the late 60s and not in the 70s when they say the partially vaccinated man in this outbreak received his vaccine.

"Do people who received measles vaccine in the 1960s need to have their dose repeated?
Not necessarily. People who have documentation of receiving LIVE measles vaccine in the 1960s do not need to be revaccinated. People who were vaccinated prior to 1968 with either inactivated (killed) measles vaccine or measles vaccine of unknown type should be revaccinated with at least one dose of live attenuated measles vaccine. This recommendation is intended to protect those who may have received killed measles vaccine, which was available in 1963-1967 and was not effective." http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/faqs-dis-vac-risks.htm

Thoughts? And do we know yet which person the woman who died came in contact with?

colloidal silver”? Isn’t it vampires it’s effective against?

Colloidal silver is for colloidal werewolves. For vampires, a homeopathic preparation of one true cross is efficacious, as is a large wooden stake if you catch the vampire asleep.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ Chris Delphine Can you explain this?

The average MMR coverage for the three countries fell below 90% after Dr. Wakefield's infamous 1998 publication but started to recover slowly after 2001 until reaching over 90% coverage again by 2004. During the same time period, the average autism spectrum disorder prevalence in the United Kingdom, Norway and Sweden dropped substantially after birth year 1998 and gradually increased again after birth year 2000.

Annie, I linked to some of the news reports above. To get a go I d picture you almost need to read each one and piece the bits together.

The salient details are that the woman caught measles at the clinic, as did the kindergartner. The latter caught them from the index patient. The other patients were the teenage sibling of the kindergartner and an older family member, who caught measles from the kindergartner. Finally there was a 43 year old friend of the index patient (patient 3), who caught measles from the index patient.

I haven't seen an age given for this patient, but news reports state he was vaccinated in the 1970s with a single dose of a vaccine that was used until 1971. He may have been vaccinated in Canada.

Mephistopheles O'Brien- Actually, there are several different varieties of vampire, with differing weaknesses. Some require having their mouths stuffed with garlic, with others, lemons are more effective. Vampire identification is an important skill in any effective slayer, otherwise the process becomes drawn out for everyone involved.

THEO- Any references for your claims? I'm not just going to trust a man I don't even know the name of to make medical decisions, you know.

By Gray Falcon (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

@Johnny #210:

Hey, we can tell when it's you posting. You're coherent.

@ Gray Falcon

Actually, there are several different varieties of vampire, with differing weaknesses.

For one variety, you should hammer carrots into their ears before boiling their head. Must have been fun figuring out that one.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

How exactly does one calculate the "average autism spectrum disorder prevalence in the United Kingdom, Norway and Sweden", theo--does one average prevalence acrossthe three countries?

If this value--however you calculate it, did in fact drop, what do you think was the reason for the decrease? We know it had nothing to do with the decline in MMR coverage following Wakefield's publication of his fraudulent Lancet paper. (see http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/autism-vaccine-myth.html for s discussion of the multiple studies rebutting a causal association ebtween MMR vaccination and ASD's).

@JGC Maybe you can ask the authors of that published research and then ask the peers. I am no scientist I am merely citing a recent study in 2015. You can cite MMR study after MMR study all you want. I am more interested in the entire schedule vs a placebo control. That study would destroy the church of Modern Medicine. It appears that this study is as close as we are going to get to one. And the evidence is casual. Therefore this should immediately bring concern to the CDC. But we know that wont happen. Let the brain damage continue.

@ Elliott

Thanks. It was an interesting read.
My own source (cannot speak for Gray Falcon) was Carpe jugulum. I'm realizing now that PTerry must have have access to some material similar to the Straight Dope.
Reality (sort of) is stranger than fiction.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ Theo

I am merely citing a recent study in 2015

Actually, no, you didn't. You forgot to provide a source.
(usually, you do, I'll admit freely)

By Helianthus (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

Maybe you can ask the authors of that published research and then ask the peers.

Which authors of what publication, Theo? You haven't provided a citation allowing them to be identified.

Please do so.

I am more interested in the entire schedule vs a placebo control.

Surely it's been explained to you why such a study would be unethical? You can't possibly be demanding ethical concerns be ignored and the study conducted anyway...right?

Meanwhile you communicated what you think could be responsible for the claimed decrease in "average prevalence...etc." following Wakefield's 1998 Lancet publication, since a large body of evidence demonstrates it must ahve have been soemthing other than declining MMR vaccine uptake. Got any suggestions?

Sigh...should read "meanwhile you haven't communicated what you think could be responsible".

Theo, simple explanation; Wakefield lied and then people died.

If Wakefield were right there would have been a documented uptick of autism of autism in the USA during the 1970s and 1980s after it was introduced in 1971. Mostly because it is a bigger country than the UK using the vaccine for almost two decades longer.

Now because of Wakefield's lies, there are communities and schools where the vaccine rates locally are as low as 50%. So it can spread. Plus measles is so contagious vaccine rates need to be 95% to achieve community immunity.

Oh, and Deisher tried to force the data to support her claim that autism rates went up with the 1978 change in the American MMR vaccine, except her dates are wrong, as is her use of the California data. In short: she is making it up, and she should be ashamed of herself. Especially with her latest move to blame the MMR vaccine for her her son's cancer:
http://soundchoice.s3.amazonaws.com/soundchoice/wp-content/uploads/Sept…

an interesting cascade of events happened after his publication look what science discovered?

Ah, "Issues in Law and Medicine" -- a crank barrel-bottom-scraping journal for theocratic f@cksticks to pimp out their theocratic opinions. Abortions cause breast cancer, vaccines are ground-up fetal cocktails, all the usual stupid in one convenient time-saving package.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

I am no scientist

Well duh, as the kids say.

And the evidence is casual.

You mean unsubstantiated drivel? I prefer formal evidence.

Yes, a classic case of trying to use religion to demonize science and causing more deaths. Still it boils down to Wakefield lied because he had a wad UK taxpayer's cash in the form of a legal fund waved in his face by a lawyer/homeopath, which brought back a disease causing disability and death around the planet.

And apologists like Theo, Deisher, Jay Gordon, Bob Sears, John Stone, Cliff Miller, J.B. Handley, Jim Carrey and otther are all to blame for that young woman's death and the impending death of the little boy in California with SSPE. They all have blood on their hands.

" CDC site says that the last ineffective measles vaccine was given in the late 60s and not in the 70s"

"People who were vaccinated prior to 1968 with either inactivated (killed) measles vaccine or measles vaccine of unknown type should be revaccinated with at least one dose of live attenuated measles vaccine. This recommendation is intended to protect those who may have received killed measles vaccine, which was available in 1963-1967 and was not effective.”

So all that utter gaboona spouted elsewhere on this chocolate logsphere about how vaccine introduced in the 60's blah, was yet again more medical peer revwooof.

Meeting Narad one day would probably be a good opportunity to bring him up to speed with what science actually is. I suppose it's a game of PR and marketing - lives and truths matter little.

Trying to cherry pick that this lady died from measles is about as plausible as medical peer review - you get the pizza you pay for.

@THEO:

You can cite MMR study after MMR study all you want. I am more interested in the entire schedule vs a placebo control. That study would destroy the church of Modern Medicine.

So if there was an entire schedule vs placebo study, would you believe it?

By justthestats (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

Theo is asking for the same "Vaxed vs Unvaxed" study antis have been clamoring for since day one.

By Roger Kulp (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

I am more interested in the entire [vaccine] schedule vs a placebo control.

It's interesting that a recently-published neurodevelopmental study of vaccinated versus completely unvaccinated rhesus macaques hasn't been all over Age of Autism, which featured accounts of the flawed earlier work that this extensive five-year study resoundingly refutes.

Laura Hewitson, the senior author of the current paper (and the first author of the earlier paper that this paper throws into the dustbin,) can hardly be accused as a pharma shill; she was a plaintiff in the Omnibus Autism Proceeding and a colleague of Andrew Wakefield at Thoughtful House, where her husband served as Wakefield's IT expert. The new work quite clearly shows that thimerosal, MMR, thimerosal plus MMR, the entire 1990s vaccine schedule, and an accelerated and relatively high-dose vaccine schedule were all unrelated to any neurodevelopmental changes in a five-year study in primates. [Environ Health Perspect. 2015 Feb 18.] The authors concluded,

This comprehensive five-year, case-control study, which closely examined the effects of pediatric vaccines on early primate development, provided no consistent evidence of neurodevelopmental deficits or aberrant behavior in vaccinated animals.

There you have it: "the entire schedule vs a placebo control" as well as MMR versus placebo, thimerosal versus placebo, and MMR plus thimerosal versus placebo.

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1408257/

#228
"Plus measles is so contagious vaccine rates need to be 95% to achieve community immunity."

QUIT LYING CHRISPY

According to SETTLED SCIENCE herd immunity is 55%. ONE vaccine / person......MEASLES ERADICATED by 1967.
Anything else indicates VACCINE FAILURE.

"Epidemiologic Basis for Eradication of Measles in 1967” (CDC)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1919891/pdf/pubhealthrepori…

WHAT THEY NOW CALL MEASES, ISN'T.
It was eradicated in 1967.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

THEO@222

I am more interested in the entire schedule vs a placebo control.

I never understood this. There are ethics issues either way you slice it. From the science point of view you are withholding livesaving treatments. From AV point of view you are deliberately poisoning children. I know ethics isn't their strong suite but this is a rather clear cut case and has been explained over and over. Why won't this one die?

By capnkrunch (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

I never understood this. There are ethics issues either way you slice it. From the science point of view you are withholding livesaving treatments. From AV point of view you are deliberately poisoning children. I know ethics isn’t their strong suite but this is a rather clear cut case and has been explained over and over. Why won’t this one die?

This and to add to their inconsistencies, they simultaneously caterwaul about vaccines not tested together. Which is of course, completely false as a brief foray onto PubMed demonstrates that.

By Science Mom (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

"WHAT THEY NOW CALL MEASES, ISN’T.
It was eradicated in 1967."

Except that isn't what the article says.

And just to add to the humor quotient, Toto's own cite says that if the US wants to accomplish measles eradication by 1967, two of the essential components are routine vaccinations of infants, and vaccination on school entry.

Toto: "QUIT LYING CHRISPY"

No, I am not lying. That is what the epidemiology says, and your all CAPS protest have no effect on the data:
The Clinical Significance of Measles: A Review
and
Measles vaccine coverage and factors related to uncompleted vaccination among 18-month-old and 36-month-old children in Kyoto, Japan (read where almost 90 deaths due to reduced vaccination)

And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer.

Toto: “QUIT LYING CHRISPY”

One wonders if Tutu has fulfilled her promise to drive up to the CDC yet.

Yes, perhaps she can tell them how to do their jobs. It is obvious she will only be happy if there are more vaccine preventable deaths, since as a sadist she is not just satisfied with very sick kids.

Toto, if not measles, then what is killing about 400 people per day, mostly in developing countries, and which greatly resembles measles? I've seen it with me own two eyes, mate. Looks like measles, walks like measles, kills like measles...

Toto needs to read some articles like this
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S514.full

For molecular epidemiologic purposes, the genotype designations are considered the operational taxonomic unit, whereas related genotypes are grouped by clades. The WHO currently recognizes 8 clades, designated A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and H. Within these clades, there are 23 recognized genotypes, designated A, B1, B2, B3, C1, C2, D1, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6, D7, D8, D9, D10, E, F, G1, G2, G3, H1, and H2, and 1 provisional genotype, d11. ... The virologic surveillance data has shown that vaccination programs can reduce the number of co-circulating chains of transmission and eventually interrupt measles transmission. However, viruses are continually being introduced from external sources, and if the number of susceptible individuals increases, sustained transmission of the newly introduced viral genotype is possible. This results in what appears as a rapid change in the endemic genotype .
snip.
Another lesson learned is that, if large measles outbreaks are occurring anywhere in the world, the viruses are soon detected almost everywhere. Measles transmission can occur anywhere, and molecular techniques are often the only method for identifying the source of an outbreak or isolated case when standard case reporting fails to identify a source. Exposures can occur in airports or other areas frequented by international travelers, such as amusement parks, conferences, and sporting events.

Or this
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2334/8/44

Abstract
Background

In some populations, complete shifts in the genotype of the strain of measles circulating in the population have been observed, with given genotypes being replaced by new genotypes. Studies have postulated that such shifts may be attributable to differences between the fitness of the new and the old genotypes.
Methods

We developed a stochastic model of the transmission dynamics of measles, simulating the effects of different levels of migration, vaccination coverage and importation of new genotypes on patterns in the persistence and replacement of indigenous genotypes.
Results

The analyses illustrate that complete replacement in the genotype of the strain circulating in populations may occur because of chance. This occurred in >50% of model simulations, for levels of vaccination coverage and numbers of imported cases per year which are compatible with those observed in several Western European populations (>80% and >3 per million per year respectively) and for the given assumptions in the model.
Conclusion

The interpretation of genotypic data, which are increasingly being collected in surveillance programmes, needs to take account of the underlying vaccination coverage and the level of the importation rate of measles cases into the population.

snip

At low levels of vaccination coverage, all patterns in persistence and replacement were predicted to occur. However, pattern 4 (transmission of neither genotype persists during the study period) and pattern 1.1 (indigenous genotype persists but cases infected with the imported genotype are observed only rarely) were the most likely, occurring in 55% and 25% of simulations respectively if no individuals were vaccinated. The probability of pattern 4 occurring increased as the vaccine coverage increased, occurring in 90% of the simulations once the vaccination coverage was ≥60%, with rapid replacement of the indigenous genotype occurring in the remaining (10%) simulations.

By Roger Kulp (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

As a side note, I do wonder who won the auction for annedachel.com. It seems to have gone for $17.

#245
You wasted lots of space. Toto has read all of that (and posted it).
IT IS IRRELEVANT. MEASLES WAS ERADICATED IN THE U.S. IN 2000. Any other non-indiginous measles virus is SOME OTHER COUNTRY'S FAULT. American susceptibles were protected by AMERICAN HERD IMMUNITY. Any breach of our borders by foreign measles virus IS THE FAULT OF SOME OTHER COUNTRY.

YOU SHOULD READ THIS:
"Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed the outcomes of the Greek referendum with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras on Monday, and expressed his support to the Greek people in overcoming the future difficulties in the country, Kremlin press service said.
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras (L) speaks with Russian President Vladimir Putin during a session of the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum 2015 (SPIEF 2015) in St. Petersburg, Russia, June 19, 2015"
© REUTERS/ MIKHAIL KLIMENTYEV/RIA NOVOSTI/KREMLIN
EU Should Be Applauding Russia for Helping Greece – Putin
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150706/1024267662.html#ixzz3fG9qYdK2

PERHAPS YOU SHOULD CALL YOUR FINANCIAL ADVISOR.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

http://www.livingwhole.org/a-woman-died-from-measles-and-im-still-not-g…

That's another example of an anti-vaxxer claiming that it WASN'T measles that killed her. I'm not sure if you've come across this particular anti-vaxxer but she has a penchant for faking her own credentials to make herself look more educated and thus more of an authority in the 'vaccine debate' (I use quote marks with the deepest scorn as all us sensible people know there's no debate).

She also goes on to say that if it WAS measles that cause her pneumonia then it was because her MMR failed her. Or because someone who recently GOT the MMR was shedding and that's how she got infected.

I really wish that shedding BS would just DIE. Unless you're playing with someone's (who has recently been vaccinated) poop, the risk of catching a virus via 'shedding' is next to impossible. Right?

Hopefully someone who can make a good,snarky satire site.That was $17.00 more than it was worth.

By Roger Kulp (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

THANK YOU CRISPY!

WHAT A FABULOUS PIECE OF NLP! you're the PRO!
I made copies for the gang so they can just CUT AND PASTE. THIS WILL SAVE US LOTS OF VALUABLE TIME. A true CLASSIC!

"And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer."

"And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer."

"And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer."

"And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer."

"And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer."

"And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in the USA, UK, Ireland, France, Japan, Germany and elsewhere. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer."

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

@Narad

I included a drive-by of Poul Thorsen's house.....NICE DIGS!
I thought of how many sick children could have been helped WITH ALL OF THAT MONEY!

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

"if not measles, then what is killing about 400 people per day, mostly in developing countries"

LACK OF SANITATION, LACK OF CLEAN WATER, LACK OF (HEALTHY) FOOD, LIONS, TIGERS, SNAKES, SPIDERS....
Sorry, but GLOBAL CAR CRASH DEATHS beat out measles HANDS DOWN!
"Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day.
An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled."
http://asirt.org/Initiatives/Informing-Road-Users/Road-Safety-Facts/Roa…

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!

Supported by Californian's HOPING for some CHANGE to pay the BILLS.

http://www.semissourian.com/story/147068.html
"The outcome reflected the position of the World Health Organization that the small amount of thimerosal used in vaccines is safe. Even the American Academy of Pediatrics, which called for thimerosal to be removed from children’s vaccines over a decade ago, last year came out in favor of exempting the preservative from the mercury treaty.

The exemption also stemmed from a widely shared economic judgment that the cost to make and distribute thimerosal-free vaccines would be steep and couldn’t be justified by the uncertain benefits.

Richard Mwendandu, a delegate from Kenya, said African nations that expressed concerns about thimerosal agreed by the end that the preservative is still critical to vaccination programs aimed at reducing childhood deaths, and should be used until a good alternative is found. “There is no cost-effective and reliable alternative at this moment,” Mwendandu said."
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/world_health_organization_approves_use_…

"Senator Elizabeth Warren: Vaccines are safe, effective & protect our children"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79UlXgoQwGk

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 07 Jul 2015 #permalink

I’m not sure if you’ve come across this particular anti-vaxxer but she has a penchant for faking her own credentials to make herself look more educated....

Oh, she has a long and hilarious history. I mean, there's this, but it further devolved into insanity when she issued some sort of threat* to the obscure GBCN group while the even more obscure "Jim Stone Forums" attempted to mobilize to defend her safety and revealed a bunch of personal details in the process (she had actually, to all appearances, taken her site or sites down to scrub all the references to herself as "Dr." Megan).

If you follow the "GCBN" link and pick "'Dr.' Megan Heimer's lies, falsifications, & inaccuracies," the very beginning has been redacted, but there's 44 pages of comments. It's a slog.

* Because they didn't link to her.

Toto: “QUIT LYING CHRISPY”

At least Toto has abandoned the histrionic fabrications about having a "vaccine-damaged child".

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

The argument that doing studies with unvaccinated groups is ‘unethical’ has gone on for far too long. It is the most hilariously unscientific argument I can imagine. Apparently, the rest of the time, science must stand up to ‘rigourous’ testing, RCTs, prospective studies, informed consent…. but in the case of mass vaccination, for some reason, the powers that be are allowed to throw all of that out of the window and just woo on. Guess what I want conclusive evidence before I polute my child. Fair?

Unethical is your best answer? Is it unethical to inject almost 5000 mcg of aluminum into infants without long term safety studies to see exactly what happens vs a placebo control? Was it unethical to put mercury in vaccines for decades with no safety studies? medical ethics? really pharmaceutical company ethics?

Tell me about the ethics of vaccinating premature babies that are not supposed to be breathing? increased seizures and
Main Outcomes and Measures Incidence of sepsis evaluations, need for increased respiratory support, intubation, seizures, and death.

http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2300376&utm_sour…

Medical ethics coming from an establishment that routinely kills people with properly prescribed RX drugs or overprescribed oxycontin that ultimately created the Heroin epidemic? Ethics? really wow are you folks delusional.

For a blog to promote science based medicine its interesting that you all give science a pass when it comes to vaccines. Aren't you curious to know conclusively how unvaccinated kids perform versus vaccinated? and what the REAL TRUE outcomes are. We have mountains of anecdotal evidence from parents, defecting pediatricans proving they do harm. We also have 100's of studies proving they do harm. We have the same evidence that unvaccinated kids thrive and do not have allergies asthma autism ear infections etc. It will always be a mystery and thats ok with you? Its not Ok with me. I want to know. How can you people outright put your faith in pharmaceutical research? oh thats right your all trained in it and you don't know any other way to think I forgot. Your like army soldiers.

Its shocking to me that you are not curious. Furthermore there are at least 50,000 unvaxxed children running around this country that can be studied in depth by science that destroys your ethical argument if there was motivation. Parents don't find it unethical to not vaccinate, find them do your research and report back. very simple to do if there was incentive sadly there isn't.

Sorry 6 monkeys is not a good study

TO PRO-THIMEROSAL BAN CALIFORNIANS:
“And, yes, you are also one of those with blood on your hands from measles deaths in California. Wakefield lied, and with all of your ignorant help people have died. You must be so proud being a murderer.” ChrisPy

Why do you continue to keep LIFE-SAVING THIMEROSAL out of California vaccines?????????? ARE YOU JUST RACIST? DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO DRAIN THE TAXES OF CALIFORNIANS UNNECESSARILY?

IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!
Supported by Californian’s HOPING for some CHANGE to pay the BILLS.

http://www.semissourian.com/story/147068.html
“The outcome reflected the position of the World Health Organization that the small amount of thimerosal used in vaccines is safe. Even the American Academy of Pediatrics, which called for thimerosal to be removed from children’s vaccines over a decade ago, last year came out in favor of exempting the preservative from the mercury treaty.

The exemption also stemmed from a widely shared economic judgment that the cost to make and distribute thimerosal-free vaccines would be steep and couldn’t be justified by the uncertain benefits.

Richard Mwendandu, a delegate from Kenya, said African nations that expressed concerns about thimerosal agreed by the end that the preservative is still critical to vaccination programs aimed at reducing childhood deaths, and should be used until a good alternative is found. “There is no cost-effective and reliable alternative at this moment,” Mwendandu said.”
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/world_health_organization_approves_use_…

“Senator Elizabeth Warren: Vaccines are safe, effective & protect our children”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79UlXgoQwGk

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

For all of you breathlessly following the Southern Holistic Doctors Murder Conspiracy case, a local TV news outfit is busy connecting the dots, or at least Just Asking Questions:

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/29485995/is-dr-sievers-homicide-tied-to-2-re…

A triumph of investigating reporting, I'm sure you will agree.

Meantime, the sheriff overseeing the Sievers murder investigation says there's "connectivity" involved (i.e. not a random homicide), but won't say more.

http://www.winknews.com/2015/07/07/lee-county-sheriff-scott-breaks-sile…

Nancy Grace is also on the case, I hear. Stay tuned for more exciting developments.

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

LIZ DITZ: Keep up the good work with our call campaign to the California assembly. Target the HEALTH COMMITTEE first.

@herr doktor bimler
Please use your lawyering skills to write up a "Bill to Overturn the California Thimerosal Ban." Just post it here, and the rest of the gang can pitch it to their Assembly Person. THANKS!

MILLIONS OF LIVES AND BACK POCKETS are at stake!

Keep plugging our campaign NLP:
IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

#260
"BOOKS AND MOVIES WILL BE WRITTEN ABOUT THE CRIME"
The investigating officer knew Sievers.

IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

THEO,

The argument that doing studies with unvaccinated groups is ‘unethical’ has gone on for far too long. It is the most hilariously unscientific argument I can imagine.

Would you be willing for your children and grandchildren to be part of the vaccinated arm of this hypothetical study? If not, the study wouldn't be randomized and the results would be meaningless.

Maybe you would like to explain the joke to the World Medical Association which developed the Declaration of Helsinki which is morally binding for every physician,and makes it very clear that such a study would be unethical:

33. The benefits, risks, burdens and effectiveness of a new intervention must be tested against those of the best proven intervention(s), except in the following circumstances:
Where no proven intervention exists, the use of placebo, or no intervention, is acceptable; or
Where for compelling and scientifically sound methodological reasons the use of any intervention less effective than the best proven one, the use of placebo, or no intervention is necessary to determine the efficacy or safety of an intervention
and the patients who receive any intervention less effective than the best proven one, placebo, or no intervention will not be subject to additional risks of serious or irreversible harm as a result of not receiving the best proven intervention.
Extreme care must be taken to avoid abuse of this option.

Since vaccines are proven interventions, there are no compelling and scientifically sound methodological reasons to doubt their safety, and not vaccinating a child puts it at risk of serious or irreversible harm, the sort of study you suggest would not and should not be approved by any IRB or ethics committee anywhere in the world.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

THEO: "Ethics? really wow are you folks delusional."

We are not the ones championing the deaths from vaccine preventable diseases and clamoring for more like you are. Due to the lies from Wakefield and his fan girls like you real people have died. You must be so proud with those efforts from the woman who depended on community immunity to measles that your friends made sure did not exist to the little boy who died from diphtheria in Spain.

Keep it up, I am sure the death count will continue to rise because of you and your friends.

LACK OF SANITATION, LACK OF CLEAN WATER, LACK OF (HEALTHY) FOOD, LIONS, TIGERS, SNAKES, SPIDERS….
Sorry, but GLOBAL CAR CRASH DEATHS beat out measles HANDS DOWN!
“Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day.
An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled.”
http://asirt.org/Initiatives/Informing-Road-Users/Road-Safety-Facts/Roa…

Yes, lack of potable water, undernutrition, and car crashes all kill people. So does measles, about 400 people a day, on average.

My parents cared for many people with measles, some of whom did not survive. You really have no idea what you're talking about, and like every single anti-vaxxer with whom I've crossed paths, your privilege makes me ill.

Its shocking to me that you are not curious.

I have ceased to be shocked by the lack of intellectual curiosity routinely displayed by you and your ilk.

Is it unethical to inject almost 5000 mcg of aluminum into infants without long term safety studies to see exactly what happens vs a placebo control?

Given the existence of an extremely large body of evidence accurately characterizing the toxicity of aluminum salts, no: it's not.

Was it unethical to put mercury in vaccines for decades with no safety studies?

No one did this, however. Thimerosal was included in some vaccine formulations as a preservative (note at the time that thd FDA elected to remove thimerosal it was found in only 2% of all vaccines marketed in the US) but thimerosal and mercury are not the same thing.

And again, given that at the time thimerosal was being incorporated into vaccine formulations there already existed a large body of evidence characterizing its toxicity (going back to Powell an Jamieson in 1931) yes: it's use was entirely ethical.

Tell me about the ethics of vaccinating premature babies that are not supposed to be breathing?

By what rational argument is it be unethical to vaccinate premature babies, especailly givent aht teh study you linked to yourself concluded "Our findings provide no evidence to suggest that physicians should not use combination vaccines in ELBW infants"?

Aren’t you curious to know conclusively how unvaccinated kids perform versus vaccinated?

It isn't necesary to perform unethical prospective vaxed versus unvaxed studies to know this conclusively--large scale retrospective epidemiologic studies are demonstrably capable of providing this information. And guess what? They have.

We have mountains of anecdotal evidence from parents, defecting pediatricans proving they do harm.

The plural of 'anecdote' isn't 'evidence': if you believe these anecdotes are sufficient to demonstrate vaccines are unsafe, may I conclude you also beleive that extraterrestrials piloting faster-than-light vehicles visit the earth and routinely abduct humans, taking them aboard their craft for forced medical examinations (which seem to involve an all-but-obligatory protoscopic examinaton)? After all, there are similar 'mountains' of anecdotal evidence supporting this occurs.

If not--if you don't believe alien abductions routinely occur, or even if you are not sure one way or the other--could you explain to me the rational basis by which you decide which "mountains of anecdotes" you'll accept as constituting 'evidence' and which mountains you'll instead reject?

Furthermore there are at least 50,000 unvaxxed children running around this country that can be studied in depth by science that destroys your ethical argument if there was motivation.

Ignoring for the moment the statistical power enrolling every one of these children into a study could acheive--I think we'd be able to detect whether or not a threefold or greater risk of injury associated with vaccines existed, which is demonstrably orders of magnitude higher than the increase in large scale retrospective sudies and post marketing surveillance is capable of detecting--doing so would only a small-scale retrospective study, and not the unethical prospective vaxed versus un-vaxed study anti-vaxers are calling for.

"Is it unethical to inject almost 5000 mcg of aluminum into infants"

That's 5,000,000 nanograms of aluminum!!!!! FIVE MILLION nanograms!!!!!!!!

Won't somebody think of the children??!?!?!?

By Dangerous Bacon (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

Would you be willing for your children and grandchildren to be part of the vaccinated arm of this hypothetical study?

To expand, paraphrasing a commenter on another blog:

a vax vs unvax double-blinded study means picking a few 10,000 children, vaccinate half of them, inject a saline solution to the other half, and then sit back and expect that soon, you will be watching them suffer and, for some of them, die - either from preventable diseases, or from the chemicalz in vaccines, depending on your side.
That's a bit harsh, just to prove a point, don't you think?

@ Theo

Furthermore there are at least 50,000 unvaxxed children running around this country that can be studied in depth by science that destroys your ethical argument if there was motivation.

Ah, now you are not talking anymore about a direct comparison, but about a retrospective study (hope I got the wording right, I'm not epidemiologist).
Orac discussed it more a length here.

This type of study have some other types of issues: you are not comparing people from the same population anymore, the main difference being vaccinated or not, but people from two populations. You want to be sure to match the people you enroll on each side - easily done when you pick a relatively homogenous population and split it in two, much more difficult when you start with people from all around the country. It may bias the results a bit if one group has a lot of people living near a coal plant, or the other group is getting twice as much sun exposure, for a simple example.
Anyway, such studies have been done, I believe. Never to the satisfaction of the core antivax crowd.
There was a phone interview done by an antivax group (Generation Rescue). They stopped midway, the numbers were showing more health issues among the non-vaccinated, including autism.

We have the same evidence that unvaccinated kids thrive and do not have allergies asthma autism ear infections etc

I'm sorry, but citation needed on this one. If you had conclusive studies to support this, I would be anti-vaxer as well.
Heck, "do not have ear infection"? So the unvaccinated little girl who died recently of ear infection doesn't count?

By Helianthus (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

@Krebiozen - I was going to ask THEO the same thing - were they willing to volunteer their precious snowflake for that study having no idea if they were were dosed with real vaccine or saline solution?

@THEO:

Sorry 6 monkeys is not a good study

I suggest you read it again, this time paying enough attention to at least get the number of subjects correct.

By justthestats (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

Ignoring for the moment the statistical power enrolling every one of these children into a study could acheive

Cue Prometheus.

#266
"My parents cared for many people with measles, some of whom did not survive."

If your parents were doctors, I WOULD NEVER LET THEM NEAR MY KIDS. The odds aren't good.

I GUESS I CAN COUNT ON YOU FOR MY NEW CAMPAIGN:

IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!
Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!

Please call Assembly members NOW!

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

#268
CR*P ALERT! CRA* ALERT!
"No one did this, however. Thimerosal was included in some vaccine formulations as a preservative (note at the time that thd FDA elected to remove thimerosal it was found in only 2% of all vaccines marketed in the US) but thimerosal and mercury are not the same thing.

And again, given that at the time thimerosal was being incorporated into vaccine formulations there already existed a large body of evidence characterizing its toxicity (going back to Powell an Jamieson in 1931) yes: it’s use was entirely ethical."

HA HA HA HA HA HA! THIMEROSAL HAS NEVER BEEN BANNED FROM VACCINES EXCEPT IN CALIFORNIA and Iowa.
Bill Gates Foundation thinks it's GREAT! SO DO THE OTHER 48 STATES!
THIMEROSAL FILLED MULTIDOSE VIALS IS ALL THEY SEND TO AFRICA!

Why do you continue to keep LIFE-SAVING THIMEROSAL out of California vaccines?????????? ARE YOU JUST RACIST? DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO DRAIN THE TAXES OF CALIFORNIANS UNNECESSARILY?

IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!
Supported by Californian’s HOPING for some CHANGE to pay the BILLS.

http://www.semissourian.com/story/147068.html
"The exemption also stemmed from a widely shared economic judgment that the cost to make and distribute thimerosal-free vaccines would be steep and couldn’t be justified by the uncertain benefits.

"Richard Mwendandu, a delegate from Kenya, said African nations that expressed concerns about thimerosal agreed by the end that the preservative is still critical to vaccination programs aimed at reducing childhood deaths, and should be used until a good alternative is found. “There is no cost-effective and reliable alternative at this moment,” Mwendandu said.”
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/30/world_health_organization_approves_use_…

“Senator Elizabeth Warren: Vaccines are safe, effective & protect our children”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79UlXgoQwGk

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

Once we OVERTURN the CALIFORNIA THIMEROSAL BAN,
Here's a DOCTOR SAFETY TIP:
"Mercury in the form of thimerosal is included as a preservative in multi-dose vials. If vials are not shaken thoroughly between each dose withdrawal, the last doses will contain large amounts of mercury. This is because mercury is heavier than water and sinks to the bottom of the vials."
IT'S EASY! Just remember SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE your VIALS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3fZuW-aJsg

IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

Please vote to OVERTURN THE CALIFORNIA BAN ON THIMEROSAL!
It is SAFE. It is EFFECTIVE, and it is CHEAP!
BRING BACK THE ECONOMICAL MULTI-DOSE VIALS!
Supported by Californian’s HOPING for some CHANGE to pay the BILLS.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 08 Jul 2015 #permalink

#266
“My parents cared for many people with measles, some of whom did not survive.”

If your parents were doctors, I WOULD NEVER LET THEM NEAR MY KIDS. The odds aren’t good.

I GUESS I CAN COUNT ON YOU FOR MY NEW CAMPAIGN:

IF IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR AFRICA,
IT’S GOOD ENOUGH FOR CALIFORNIA!

Right, fuck 'em, the dying Aren't Like Us. You do know Africa is an entire continent, right, filled with diverse groups of people........never mind.

When my parents practiced in a developed context, they wouldn't have taken your kids as patients anyway, so no worries on that count, Toto.

Here's an idea. Why don't you fuck off. And when you get there, fuck off from there as well. Then fuck off some more. Keep fucking off until you get back here. And then wait until someone tells you to fuck off again. Won't take long, trust.

I have been involved in an ongoing online debate. This was tossed my way as proof of the "science" supporting ant-vacer's claims. Does anyone know about this group? http://www.cmsri.org/

By Theo S Dzielak (not verified) on 10 Jul 2015 #permalink

@TheoSD #278 -

The About Us tab at your link reveals Claire Dwoskin, an NVIC board member, is the founder. If that's not enough red flag, Seneff and Shaw serve on the so-called Scientific Advosory Board. Icing on the cake? Their evidence seems to be limited to youtube videos. Run any of these names through the search thingy at the top-right of any page here . . . or mebbe just run.

In other words, they're quacks and cranks, albeit rich ones who can apparently afford a decent web designer to give it that sciency look.

If the person with whom you're engaged references a specific study (as opposed to the youtube links on the site), chances are it's been discussed/dismantled, here and/or elsewhere. I'd ask 'em to bring it, myself.

Oh, carp. That would be "Advisory."

While doing the study we want has it challenges it is the only way to know for sure exactly what the vaccines are doing and how they are impacting health outcomes long term. And all of you know it no matter what bullshit you post here. What if measles infection and optimal nutrition levels were studied in a cohort and they discovered significantly lower cancer rates, allergies, cardiovascular disease etc?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26122188

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9824838

Here's a question for you......do vaccines strengthen the immune system yes or no?

"science gets us to approximations of truth that are falsifiable, not truth itself. Dogma is settled, not science."

Of course, those studies do not include those who died or suffered permanent sequelae from those diseases.

Also, "strengthen the immune system" is a nonsense phrase.

By Gray Falcon (not verified) on 14 Jul 2015 #permalink

I'd just like to point out, once again, THEO's posting PubMed studies that work on the principle of "correlation is causation". Anyone have any answer to it?

By Gray Falcon (not verified) on 14 Jul 2015 #permalink

In other words, they’re quacks and cranks, albeit rich ones who can apparently afford a decent web designer to give it that sciency look.

I dunno, the vibe I got from the CMSRI website was more "slick alt-heatlh scam". All the upmarket sekrit-cancer-cure sites these days are built around that kind of dissolving succession of images.

By herr doktor bimler (not verified) on 14 Jul 2015 #permalink

While doing the study we want has it challenges it is the only way to know for sure exactly what the vaccines are doing and how they are impacting health outcomes long term.

No, it's not the only way. Other ways (large scale retrospective epidmiologic studies, post-marketing surveillance via programs like the Vaccine Safety Datalink etc.) which do not unethically place subjects at risk which are capable of generating the same information not only exist but have been doing just that for decades.

Yup, stuff like this is what scares me. I have sarcoidosis (no, nobody else's ever heard of it, either). I'm on an immunosuppressant and can't get vaccinations. Since the problem is centered in my lungs, getting the measles can easily kill me. So could whooping cough which is currently at "outbreak level" in the county just south of mine.

By Canonical (not verified) on 14 Jul 2015 #permalink

"Since the problem is centered in my lungs, getting the measles can easily kill me. So could whooping cough which is currently at “outbreak level” in the county just south of mine."
DON'T DRIVE! MUCH GREATER RISK.

By Toto "the Rock" (not verified) on 14 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ Theo

What if measles infection and optimal nutrition levels were studied in a cohort and they discovered significantly lower cancer rates, allergies, cardiovascular disease etc?

Eh, there is progress.
On a previous thread, you asserted that non-vaccinated people do have less cancer, allergies, cardiovascular disease, etc. You included ear infections in the list.

When I asked you for some source backing your assertion, and pointed to a previous thread discussing the death of a non-vaccinated little girl due to an untreated ear infection, you disappeared.

Glad to see you are now just asking questions.

---------------------------------
@ Canonical

I have sarcoidosis (no, nobody else’s ever heard of it, either)

I did heard about it, from some colleagues in biology/immunology. It's a nasty bugger, alright.
There is some scientific research going on, but there could be more.
In my country, there are a few associations of patients and their families for support and information sharing. These associations do also some good by increasing the general public's awareness of the disease. I don't know if you have access to similar groups where you live.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 14 Jul 2015 #permalink

At the risk of feeding the (local) troll:

Dearest Toto,

Get stuffed. My least risk from automotive accident is: injury. My least risk from whooping cough and/or measles is dying. Thanks ever-so.

Love and kisses.

By Canonical (not verified) on 15 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ Helianthus #290: My apologies for the double-post. I'll be honest: I'd never heard of sarcoidosis 'til I got it. I'm lucky--getting it in the lungs is the least nasty. Since it's genetically-based and doesn't kill you outright (as long as herd-immunity doesn't let you down) and doesn't affect a huge number of people, it's pretty low on the research radar. Thanks for the words of support! I've found a few groups on the 'net and am on Prednisone until whenever, but there are worse things to have, gods know.

By Canonical (not verified) on 15 Jul 2015 #permalink

Hey, THEO...that's an amazing article. In a country where autism diagnosis were rare because physicians didn't know how to diagnosis it, it is now being properly diagnosed so the rates are becoming more equivalent with 1st world countries. But Vietnam doesn't have the infrastructure in place to help autistic people yet.

Your point? There are not MORE autistic people in Vietnam, there are more people receiving the accurate diagnosis they need for help.

Keep believing that explanation. We're not buying it. If that were the case we would have studies of adults too. Oh they don't exist that's right. Children with brain damage has never been the norm. Don't be a fool. I keep forgetting your all medical establishment people. mere soldiers getting your orders and marching papers

"Children with brain damage has never been the norm."

You mean with the return of measles? We try to prevent that with the very safe MMR.

Of course the reason you did not see the kids damaged by measles, congenital rubella syndrome, HIB, etc was that they were locked up in institutions like Willowbrook. Only a cruel heartless and clueless person would want those diseases and the institutions to come back.

Measles only does damage in malnourished people. Extremeley rare in Developed countries with clean water sanitation and nutrition. educate yourself this is well known but not in the echo chamber of propoganda you listen too.

Measles only does damage in malnourished people. Extremeley rare in Developed countries with clean water sanitation and nutrition. educate yourself this is well known but not in the echo chamber of propoganda you listen too.

And who fucking cares about them, right? Fuck off you pissant. Just fuck off.

Seriously you're just an asshole. Who cares as long as it's not you and yours with your kale and your Leap Pads and Honda Pilots. Fuck off, asshole.

Oh really? Then why is there a little boy dying of SSPE in California? How was Olivia Dahl malnourished? Was the outbreak of over a thousand cases of measles in Wales from a breakdown of sanitation?

Are you telling us that France, which had several deaths from measles is not a developed country? Did you say that Japan has issues with "clean water sanitation and nutrition:

According to an infectious disease surveillance (2000), total measles cases were estimated to be from 180,000 to 210,000, and total deaths were estimated to be 88 [11,12]. Measles cases are most frequently observed among non-immunized children, particularly between 12 to 24 months.

Sure, educate us. Explain how measles is benign in Japan, France, and elsewhere. Until then the blood of those deaths are on your hands.

"measles only does damage in undernourished people."

Tell that to my youngest brother. Make sure he has his hearing aids in first.

I have sarcoidosis (no, nobody else’s ever heard of it, either)

WTF? Nobody's ever watched House?

Theo@295

Children with brain damage has never been the norm.

It shpuldn't surprise me at this point but wow! Despite the antivax movement claiming to be advocate for autistics you guys sure say some awful things about them. I pity the autistic child whose AV parent refers to him/her as brain damaged.

By capnkrunch (not verified) on 18 Jul 2015 #permalink

Another angle on that quote from Theo @295:

So, why do he and other anti-vax campaigners want to increase the number of children with brain damage? In case he's forgotten already, measles sometimes causes brain damage.

@theo

Thanks for proving that you are a bigot for your frank dismissal of other ethnicities. I am sure the refugees who my family supported would love to hear your insensitive comments.

MI Dawn: "There are not MORE autistic people in Vietnam, there are more people receiving the accurate diagnosis they need for help."

After finally convincing dear hubby* that son in mid-twenties was not okay, and he was not malingering about finding a job: I got to work by getting a long overdue diagnosis. It turns out he as Autism Level II (there are three levels, from totally non-functional, to very high functioning... my kid needs supports).

I was assured many times in the early 1990s that he was not autistic. And as I go to parent meetings and lectures I am having interesting conversations to others who also have the same experience. I am amazed how many have children born before the early 1990s that are now diagnosed with autism, but not when they were kids.

Doesn't help they all have at least normal intelligence. This means they get no services from our states Developmental Disabilities Administration nor from The Arc (though I have gone to informal parent gatherings from the latter, where I met one couple whose daughter is in her thirties).

* What was great was that dear hubby was able to attend the feedback appointment with on of the psychologists. She explained everything from the differences between DSM IV and DSM V. She also said she found the early 1990s records interesting since the science has changed greatly in the just the last ten years. This really helped get hubby on board. Though I was aghast when as we were returning to the car he pointed out our son's odd pacing as he waited for us by the car. I did tell hubby that I have known about that behavior for years, and was surprised he just noticed. Le sigh.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Thanks, Rock.

Now I have seen everything: a Fukushima crackpot, dead threading an unrelated article to push his theory that the Jews are using vaccines to spread autism.

It's true what they say, no matter how bad you think it is it can always get worse.

By Robert L Bell (not verified) on 18 Jul 2015 #permalink

Money has been scarce, but when I can afford it, I want a copy of Shrinks: The Untold Story of Psychiatry. The interview with the author that I read in the New York Times suggests that it might make it much easier for me to defend increased autistic diagnoses around the world.

Chris@307

I got to work by getting a long overdue diagnosis. It turns out he as Autism Level II (there are three levels, from totally non-functional, to very high functioning… my kid needs supports).

She also said she found the early 1990s records interesting since the science has changed greatly in the just the last ten years.

Well,yeah,of course it has.

One big thing that has changed in the last ten years, is the emergence of a completely new subtype of autism,which I may have been the first adult diagnosed with,A type of autism that is both largely inherited or genetic,and treatable.A type of autism that involves novel ideas like folate receptor autoantibodies.and/or genetic defects in multiple metabolic pathways.None of which was really known when Andrew Wakefield published his abomination of a study.But it would explain a decent size chunk of the autism with regressions and complex medical issues the antivaxers are always complaining about.

If the posters here are any indication,most antivaxers can't seem to grasp the simple idea that science moves on,and moves on in ways nobody ever thought possible.The usual antivaxer denial that their perfect snowflakes might have been born damaged or disabled might also play into this.

Chris,I was told about these three levels of autism,back in 2008,when I was rediagnosed.I was told three was the most severe,and that I was a 2.5 because of my learning disabilities,behavioral issues,and general deficits in daily functioning.But then again,these metabolic disorders usually only show up in autism that is nonverbal or lower functioning.

By Roger Kulp (not verified) on 18 Jul 2015 #permalink

I agree there is a risk of damage from measles however the probability is extremely low in 2015 with our new found understanding of the microbiome and nutritional support for the innate immune system like vit d 3. And just a basic multivitamin This new scientific understanding blows a hole in vaccine theory. Furthermore we recently found out that the brain has an immune system? For the love of God!!!!! modern medicine cant even get human anatomy right and you want me to trust pharma injecting cluster bombs of aluminum and carcinogenic formaldayde into my kid? And they don't know how it effects the brain? No chance and no I don't care about other people's kids and herd immunity I don't make health care decisions on what's good for the village. GFY! This America not China

Read how much we don't really know about the brain .......http://kellybroganmd.com/snippet/the-brain-does-have-an-immune-system/

go ahead with your never ending toxic medical interventions from cradle to grave and your fear of measles. Enjoy life long food allergies asthma, auto immune etc and never ending trips to the doctor. For me and my family we will forge ahead embracing the holistic approach. Understanding the breakthrough science of epi genetics, detoxification, micro biome hydration and optimal nutrition etc Avoiding all pharmaceutical products, GMO, antibiotics, vaccines and surgeries like the plague unless it's an emergency. This is the new paradigm! Modern medicine is dying..... Holism is on the rise. Don't be the last nimrod and wait until it's too late for you and your family. It's self evident if you know where to look and what research to trust. However you folks are cleRly under the pharmaceutical spell, that's sad

@Theo,

I agree there is a risk of damage from measles however the probability is extremely low in 2015

How low is extremely low?

with our new found understanding of the microbiome and nutritional support for the innate immune system like vit d 3. And just a basic multivitamin This new scientific understanding blows a hole in vaccine theory.

Please be specific about what you're talking about. What changes to the microbiome will make people immune to vaccine peventable diseases like, say, polio? What benefits will vitamins provide for influenza? Inquiring minds want to know.

modern medicine cant even get human anatomy right

Please be specific. What does modern medicine get wrong about human anatomy. Thanks.

By Mephistopheles… (not verified) on 21 Jul 2015 #permalink

Theo: "I agree there is a risk of damage from measles however the probability is extremely low in 2015 with our new found understanding of the microbiome and nutritional support for the innate immune system like vit d 3"

The microbiome mostly has to do with bacteria in the intestines, not a virus that attacks the brain and/or lungs.

For every measles death in the first world, their blood is on your hand due to your ignorance, Theo. Deal with it.

So, why do he and other anti-vax campaigners want to increase the number of children with brain damage? In case he’s forgotten already, measles sometimes causes brain damage.

They feel lonely.

@ Theo

It’s self evident if you know where to look and what research to trust.

We did ask you, repeatedly, for where to look about a link between being vaccinated and high incidence of allergy, asthma, etc (and let's not forget ear infection was on your list - BTW, remember the little unvaccinated girl who died from this?).

So far, you provided nothing relevant.

I retract my previous comment about you usually providing links. I must have confused you with some other commenter, someone more interested in an honest debate.

This new scientific understanding blows a hole in vaccine theory

Not really. "Vaccine theory" is about inducing immunity by injecting a weakened/dead form of a pathogen.
Discovering that the immune system is more complex than previously thought doesn't put vaccine in jeopardy. The effect of injecting dead pathogens is still the same.

Oh, and "epi genetic" is not "whatever I say". These are specific mechanisms by which information could be kept without involving the DNA sequence itself.

No chance and no I don’t care about other people’s kids and herd immunity

So on top of knowing nothing, you are an egoistical @sshole. Glad this was cleared up.

By Helianthus (not verified) on 21 Jul 2015 #permalink

THEO,

This is the new paradigm! Modern medicine is dying….. Holism is on the rise.

I first heard that cry at least 30 years ago, and it seems even more detached from reality now than it did then. 'Holism', or 'the rejection of science-based medicine' as I prefer to call it, is a luxury affordable only by those with the safety net provided by modern scientific medicine. There's a reason that 'holism' is never embraced by any population with serious health problems.

I know you will continue to believe that unless or until you or someone you care about gets sick, despite their 'holistic' lifestyle, and remains sick despite 'holistic' treatment. The irony is that you probably won't seek effective medical treatment until urgent medical treatment is required, enabling you to play your "unless it’s an emergency" get-out card, and thus maintain your blinkered world-view. It's a self-perpetuating delusion.

By Krebiozen (not verified) on 22 Jul 2015 #permalink

Money has been scarce, but when I can afford it, I want a copy of Shrinks: The Untold Story of Psychiatry. The interview with the author that I read in the New York Times suggests that it might make it much easier for me to defend increased autistic diagnoses around the world.

Can your local library do an Interlibrary Loan request? I've had good luck with that.

By Antaeus Feldspar (not verified) on 22 Jul 2015 #permalink

@ obrian how low is extremely low?
With vaccines, the US went from a .000237 PERCENT death rate among the general population from measles in 1963 to a 0.000000% measles death rate. It’s a different story around the world though (as the WHO points out to scare the crap out of you.) Currently, around 197,000 people die each year from measles… out of 6 billion. Want to know percent that equals? The calculator showed: 3.28e-5.

***pencil scratches on paper, moving the decimal point to the left five places because of the -e***

0.0000328.

***calculator clicking***

Which brings the percentage of people who die globally from measles today to:

0.00328%. (Remember when I told you to remember that figure above?)

0.000237% < 0.00328%
So, comparing the two figures, as a country, we Americans did better in 1963 at not dying from measles than the general population of the world is doing RIGHT NOW.

The premise that we should be fearful of measles is flawed based on our new understanding of the body as I stated earlier.micorbome etc Measles is beneficial to the childs immune system it up regulates and orchestrates the cellular arm of the immune system. all that is required is good nutrition. for the 100th time What part of nutrition do you not understand? your a bunch of medical people with a minimal understanding of nutrition concepts. all you know is pharmacology.

@ helianthus You probably didn't even know about that study regarding the lymphatic system and the brain. My pediatrician sure didn't why cause because she is too busy jabbing children Are you denying we have an explosion of kids with food allergies? peanut is a big one milk & egg are too. Did you know they use chicken embryos and casein from milk top manufacture vaccines? asthma rates are up 300% since the 1980"s Let see when you tamper with the immune system and inject foreign proteins into it there will be consequences. Do the research yourself. its all out there. Oh I know exactly WTF I am talking about YOU on the hand are getting your information from a used car salesmen the vaccine manufacturers. of course they tell you its safe and effective.

According to the CDC Developmental disabilities are a group of conditions due to an impairment in physical, learning, language, or behavior areas. About one in six children in the U.S. have one or more developmental disabilities or other developmental delays. http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/developmentaldisabilities/index.html

Thats a lot of impaired children. Over 90% of them have been vaccinated with mercury and aluminum etc. Both known neurotcxins. but according to your warped view thats not possible? I am an outsider and logic suggest to me thats EXTREMELY possible and LIKELY. and many scientists and pediatricians concur.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25699008

@THEO:

Measles is beneficial to the childs immune system it up regulates and orchestrates the cellular arm of the immune system.

Not even wrong, dunderhead.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/05/15/the-benefits-of-the-measle…

all that is required is good nutrition.

The Native Americans had a diet vastly superior to that of the European settlers. It didn't save them from being cut down in their thousands by diseases, especially measles.

Are you denying we have an explosion of kids with food allergies?...asthma rates are up 300% since the 1980"s

Citation needed.
Oh heck with it. You're spouting drivel.

By Julian Frost (not verified) on 22 Jul 2015 #permalink

Theo, if all that is required to prevent measles is good nutrition, explain why the incidence of measles didn't start to drop until after the vaccine was introduced?

The American middle-class diet in the 1950's and 1960's was pretty good, in fact healthier than what kids eat today. Fewer additives and processed foods.

We also had clean water and indoor plumbing. So how come we all got the measles?