Please KQED, Stop it with the Bogusity

Next will be The Deepak pitching "Quantum Realities."

Kind of makes me ashamed to be a Californian.

Sigh...

PBS shows the absloute worst garbage when they are trying to raise money. Combine that with the republican party take over of NPR and you have a sorry state for public media. I think I will stay on the internets, my favorite series of tubes!

Whats your beef?

The athesit Sam Harris filled his book with eastern mystica crap and the atheists made his book a best seller.

Double Standard anyone?

@Le Kuan, I don't like that eastern mysticism stuff whether it comes from the religious or the secularists. What's interesting about California, is if you come at people with the overtly Christian stuff, they're skeptical of it, but all sorts of people here welcome the eastern "wisdom" trip. It's bizarre, and I wonder whether they realize that if it were packaged a little differently, they'd see it as that old time religion they're so skeptical of.

Le Kuan is just everybody's favorite troll, Emanual Goldstein II. Only he spelled it Lee Kuan at an other site. He cannot even spell his own 'name' right.

Back to the point at hand, it is not just KQED that shows Wayne Dyer. WTTW in Chicago show a lot of his stuff during their pledge drives. (Along with Suze Orman.) I am sure that other people can confirm the same about their local PBS stations.

I saw this guy on the Memphis PBS station. He said you can't grab a handful of water. You have to admit he's got a point.

@Boris, where do I send my check for that piece of knowledge?!

Would it just be cheaper and easier to just use a cup?

He said you can't grab a handful of water. You have to admit he's got a point.

Yeah, you have to slowly sneak up on it.

When I see stuff like this, the first thing that crosses my mind is not "what a load of old cobblers", it's "could I keep a straight face long enough part some fools from their money"?

@Janine, I'm going to send you a check instead.

When I see stuff like this, the first thing that crosses my mind is not "what a load of old cobblers", it's "could I keep a straight face long enough part some fools from their money"?

If you considered all the people who get killed, or the marriages that get destroyed by "believers", I would take you guys much more seriously but, instead, you stay at the level of this cynical "aren't they stupid" comments, like there's no real danger in it but some idiots losing a few bucks - patting yourselves on the back for being so smart - like it's not belief but an intelligence test.

To me, you guys are as bad as the believers because you just don't get it.

Really, Scam? What don't we get? That you have a paranoid fear of the ludicrous? New Age claptrap will "Steal Our Souls"? We get it. Really. We understand. And it's almost as silly as the gibberish discussed in the article.

No you don't - you just, as usual, think you do - here are links to two stories of people who have been touched by new age stuff:

http://tinyurl.com/287xqr

http://shambook.blogspot.com/2007/06/for-love-and-money-part-1.html

Now - if you truly got it - you'd notice it's not just a single believer who's "lost money" but families that have been destroyed, businesses that have been wrecked, and decent lives that have been twisted into chaos. Not the same type of silly thing you guys describe it as, but real devastation happening to the fabric of society. All those people hurt, and disillusioned, by the work of just two people in their families falling under the influence of this poison. No - you don't get that. To you it's just one person getting scammed out of money. Screw all the other unsuspecting good folks that get hurt, right? No, it's just about the stupid believer.

My experience is even worse - death and divorce - while you guys snicker, compassionate bastards that you are. You are the lost sheep, as lost as the believers, because it's your cynicism - always with the self-congratulations - that allows this to happen. You big brains are supposed to be the soldiers on the front lines but, instead, you choose to play court jesters to the kings and queens of this madness. You're practically new agers yourselves, with this insistence that I should behave, under the circumstances, as blithely as you do about the whole thing.

Thank goodness Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens are around to kick over a few chairs or something because I got no faith in you bastards to do anything meaningful.

You get it?

No, you're too busy patting yourselves on the back for the latest funny one of you told,...

And let's expand on this a bit:

New age is a world-wide phenomenon. Millions of people (possibly billions) going for this. How much of this same chaos is being unleashed on the public? By PBS and all these seminars and other gatherings - all under the banner of peace and love or health and saving the planet? On people, like "paranoid" me, who had no idea this could happen to their families? Their livelihoods, their sense of identity, or society as a whole?

Keep laughing - you're the fools. You're about to elect Hillary Clinton as president. Check this out:

http://tinyurl.com/2fwbse

"Let's take the matter of her faith.  You know, the faith that she says sustained her during Monica-gate.  Now, I know a lot of Methodists with pretty strong beliefs in Jesus Christ.  Yet, I don't believe I've ever heard any of them espousing the benefits of "channeling" the spirits of dead people for guidance.  It was Bob Woodward (THE CHOICE) who revealed Hillary's desire to commune with Eleanor Roosevelt in this manner, and that new-age person of note, Jean Houston, facilitated the "conversation."  So, when she says that her "faith" got her through "it," is she referring to her faith in God or her faith in Eleanor Roosevelt?  Actually, Eleanor Roosevelt would know a thing or two about philandering husbands, but isn't Hillary, devout Methodist that she claims to be, aware that séances are deemed part of the occult (Satan's province) and strictly off-limits for Christians?  Seems like a no-brainer to me.  So, I'm not too impressed with those "faith" credentials."

So I'm not alone in knowing that the occult changed into new age, which changed into mind/body, which is accepted everywhere in science and medicine today. Paranoid? Nope:

I'm the smartest guy you know.

To me, you guys are as bad as the believers because you just don't get it.

Oh, I get it. I'm just fairly broke.

So I'm not alone in knowing that the occult changed into new age, which changed into mind/body, which is accepted everywhere in science and medicine today.

Where is it accepted as science? Evidence of your assertions, please.

I'm the smartest guy you know.

Oy.

Well, I'm not, I'm just an optomistic cynic.

Evidence?

Visit your local doctor and look at his books.

Visit your local hospital and ask for alternative or complimentary treatment.

Join a nursing school.

Ask Richard Dawkins.

No, really... we get it. You have a belief that the "occult" forces in the world are trying to take over. New World Order, Illuminati, black helicopters... am I missing anything?

In a nutshell, this is paranoia. There is no conspiracy. There is no Satan. There is no God. "Alternative" therapies are simply deluded fools. Occasionally dangerous, as all fools are, but still fools. "Occult" forces are also deluded fools.

Really, we get it. You're as delusional as they are. Calling us names won't change anything, and just feeds your delusions. I'm sorry you feel this way, but there is nothing here for you.

@Sham Sam, yes, I am totally concerned not only about the fools parting with their money, but also with the corrupting influence that this new age stuff has on society. It goes much deeper than just lost money. We can misallocate resources as a society if we start buying into this stuff.

Naturally, Chris says it better than I could. I would like to ask *how* we can stop these scam artists. Ban "alternative" medicine? Scrap the first amendment? Criminalize all "New Age" crap?

I would submit that the best vaccination for stupid is education, precisely what this site and others like it do best. Educate the masses, and the charlatans lose their audience.

If Scam has a better idea, I'd like to hear it.

Thanks Chris.

Lance,

I'm no conspiracy theorist. I don't fear black helicopters, the illuminati, etc. I am an atheist who "believes" in the real world. (I even offered to meet Mark, in person, so he can see for himself that I'm a normal, rational - though, now, slightly traumatized - kinda smart black guy. I am getting better, BTW.) I have (100%) no belief in anything but reality. It's the beliefs of others that I've been forced, more harshly than Richard Dawkins, to take very seriously as quite dangerous.

Everything I've learned about new agers I got from my own personal experience (though, like most, I didn't know what or how to assess what I was looking at) my ex-wife's own mouth, her journals and books, her duffle bag of mind-control tapes, my friends, the internet (sites both pro and con) and the rest of the media. I've studied all of this so I can learn how new agers "think".

Check out Camille Paglia on Salon recently:

"Religion as metaphysics or cosmic vision is no longer valued except in the New Age movement, to which I still strongly subscribe, despite its sometimes outlandish excesses. As a professed atheist, I detest the current crop of snide manifestos against religion written by professional cynics, flâneurs and imaginatively crimped and culturally challenged scientists. The narrow mental world they project is very grim indeed -- and fatal to future art."

http://tinyurl.com/3d7qun

What can we learn from this one paragraph (Though I've seen many other statements like it)?

We can see that scientists, rationalists, etc., offend her - with our "narrow mental world" - which she sees as cold, sterile, and lacking in beauty and creativity.

We can see new age is a "movement". A collective effort.

We can see she thinks "metaphysically" - not rationally - so she isn't going to let little things, like evidence or common sense, get in the way of the beliefs she "strongly" endorses - not even new age's "outlandish excesses".

We can see new age can infect the likes of professors - smart people, not just the stupid - and (though it would require more links than I have time to collect right now) it's, primarily, female driven.

We can see that scientists, rationalists, etc., are one of the main targets of this effort (with organized religion being another). What to do?

Stop joking around for one. This is serious - lives are coming apart (and possibly society) and, as long as people are thinking metaphysically - and acting on it - we're all trapped in madness and will pay a terrible price for this "fabulous cult stuff".

http://tinyurl.com/3cb5ov

Actively confront new agers - whoever they are - and, yes, the worst of them should be arrested. (This is fraud - and worse.) Directly confront Oprah, Madonna, Tom Cruise, Ellen - whoever - about spreading new age nonsense.

Stop Hillary's chances of gaining the presidency by directly confronting her with her occult beliefs - in channelling, bioelectric pendents, and "energy" - such beliefs disqualify her from holding office.

Re-train, or even fire, the nurses, doctors, scientists, etc., who have fallen for this - they're dangerous.

Learn the lingo - how thinking metaphysically works - and their "hidden" symbolism. They're doing it right under your noses. A good place to start is here:

http://tinyurl.com/2tomfq

Spread the word. Cults should be banned. They trying in Germany, and we should get serious about it, too.

http://tinyurl.com/3d4crr

I'll have more if you want.

Great new age/science discussion going on at the SHAMblog:

http://tinyurl.com/2vna3h

Scam,

Okay. I've read your links. I see two stories about couples who appear to have drifted apart, apparently in conjunction with some self-help seminar. So what? This happens every day, with or without self-help/New Age gibberish. My father-in-law left his wife several years ago after 25 years of marriage. When we asked him about it, he stated that he "hadn't been happy in 25 years". He covered it well enough to have three children, but when an opportunity arose, he left. It had nothing to do with self-help or New Age crap. Just two people with no real connection. So what?

What are you trying to say? Please, I'm starting to think I misunderstand your position. Can you lay it out in simple (ish) language?

Thanks,

"He covered it well enough to have three children"

In other words he lied. That's what "covering" means, isn't it? When you get rid of the euphemism? He lied? And lying is bad, right? So your dad is a liar, with no character, who abandoned your mom after she put 25 years into his sorry ass? "Just two people with no real connection" - who just happened to produce three children. I guess they "connected" where it mattered to your dad most, huh?

I know YOUR example has nothing to do with new age but I just want to be clear because fuzzying up the truth is a big part of new age. (I'm not calling you a new ager, but it's something I'm getting used to, now'a'days, the acceptance of people ignoring right and wrong, or "dualities" as the new agers say.) If it was a no-fault divorce, your mom probably had to accept 50% of the blame for your dad's lying too, right? Wonderful deal she got there. Devotes her life to a guy - probably because he asked her to - and then he leaves her after her best years are gone. And you, her loving child, accept that lousy rip as O.K. - happens all the time. What a guy. You married, BTW? Lotta luck with that.

And I love the "when an opportunity arose" line. Tell me: did he give her any warning - or did he just blind-side her and then skip off to Pleasureville to ignite another "connection" with someone else until he got bored with that too?

I'll answer you, directly, in my next post - this one pissed me off too much to go on.

Bastards.

Wait - really, just one more:

If you read the letters, the you read the husband's line that "To see her happy made me happy"? In the ruthless scenerio you present, that makes him a "sucker", right? He should've been "looking out for #1" all along - in his marriage - not bothering with the self-sacrifice that long-term love requires.

And divorce is adversarial, so he fought your mom after he started devastating her life, right? Or did he just leave her everything and walk away? Yea.

And with all the new age buzzwords and phrases: "hadn't been happy", "when an opportunity arose", "no real connection" - are you sure there's no new age thinking here? There's definitely a selfishly new age outlook at work, in him, and your telling of it.

I'll be back.

Scam,

Can you read? It was my father-in-law. My mother-in-law is no prize. You know nothing about the case, and you assume he's just a bastard? That's the sort of arrogant ignorance that makes me question your sanity. How about "he tried for 25 years to make the marriage work, all by himself, while she sat around on her fat duff spending his money. Finally, after putting up with her crap for a quarter century, and finally getting his three kids raised and out of the house, he *gave* her the business he had spent 20 years building and left."

See, there's always another side to the story, especially when human beings are involved. Ignorant twits only look at the side that fits their prejudice.

You have a knee-jerk revulsion toward anything you think smacks of "new-age", and it obviously affects your thinking.

A few things - stuck for time:

1. If that's what your dad did, then good for him, he's the upstanding guy I'd hope he'd be.

2. I can only go by what you tell me and how you say it.

3. I didn't define new age - new agers did - so don't blame me if it sounds lousy.

4. New age is such a huge part of our culture that many people - yourself included - can't describe much of anything without resorting to their language, with talk of "connections" and "karma" or whatever. Straight up talk, like I try to engage in, is almost a foreign language to people. it's definitely threatening, because I ask people to define what they mean.

5. I put a post earlier - involving Camille Paglia - that was never posted. Mark, Chris, can you put it up?

Hey LanceR,

Here's a wild story about "couples who appear to have drifted apart, apparently in conjunction with some self-help" stuff, that covers a lot of what I've been saying is going on out there, almost "under the radar" of most people, until the killing/death stuff starts.

Don't think of this as an isolated thing, folks, this is new age in all it's glory - even if the reporter, or the family, etc., aren't totally clued in to the "metaphysical" thinking of this guy, John Branden, or their own. (This would be a great case for someone to probe deeper into: Everybody (the girlfriends, the kids, friends, business associates) seems to be corrupted by new age thinking and I betcha, with a little prodding, we could get a fuller picture of the new age mindset and what, exactly, is going on out there. It's not just all about "raising the vibration of the planet", believe me. This whole thing - new age - is a destructive con job on society. Check out this line:

"Todd Karr is about to close his case file. He has no charges to file. If Branden's daughters harbored him - a potential crime - it's outside his jurisdiction. He can't prove it, anyway." [emphasis mine]

Kate Jewell says "I'm so sorry I couldn't do anything about it to stop it. And I don't know what more I could have done - but it still hurts that I didn't or couldn't."

I think she can stop it - as I'm trying to do - by starting to come clean about all of their beliefs - hers, his, the kids - everybodies.

It's got to start somewhere.

Sadly, no. This actually appears to be a case of a real nutjob who drifted into "alternative" crap in order to try to control the people in his life. If you actually RTFA, this guy was a nut from the word go. Years of abuse, physical and mental, do not stem from "New Age" blather any more than they do from listening to Heavy Metal music, or violent video games, or putting the wrong sweetener in the coffee.

Step away from your preformed beliefs and try seeing the world for what it is... a chaotic, confused place where bad $&%! happens for no apparent reason.

I agree. Come clean about your beliefs. You do not have science as your primary concern. You are primarily obsessed with the "occult", and you seem to believe that every bad thing that happens is caused by "mysterious forces beyond our control". This is disturbing, and a definite sign of mental illness. Seriously, get some help.

LanceR,

You keep portraying me that way - "conspiracy theorist" - though I've never claimed anything of the kind, or come even close, always describing others beliefs - which you seem to assume are my own. And, as a matter of fact, I've done nothing but say we can control it - but not with jokes, and claims that everyone involved is stupid, or that it's all about money - but that we can can only get control over it by taking it seriously as an extremely degrading component of our society that's worked it's way into almost all it's knooks and crannies.

My own belief (if I have any, being an atheist) is that I've been closer to it than you have. I had a wife that was/is convinced she could walk through walls, and water has a memory, and psychics are her friends, and Hillary is a goddess, and all of them are working together to eliminate people like us. I've talked with new agers who want to start a civil war in this country. I've talked to new agers of all kinds, spouting all kinds of dangerous nonsense and doing all kinds of dangerous things, and you know what? They all look like those "nice" chanters at the beginning of The Enemies of Reason - until challenged directly - then you get to see the real, vicious, article. (That appearance of "nice" is the cover that allows them to get away with murder and makes guys like you think they're harmless. But think of the e-mails many send when backed into a corner on their beliefs: then those peaceful, loving, folks want blood, no?) It's a con, I tell ya.

The reporter in the story, above, is only scratching the surface of what's gone on there - just the bare facts of the case he can get - when it's pretty obvious to my trained eye (considering the kids were harboring the guy and there's a new age business, connections, and extra girlfriends, etc.) there's a world of belief there that no one's talking about. As I said before, Camille Paglia is unique for her openness on the issue, something most believers hide - especially when a dead body shows up and the police get involved: You don't want to go blabbing about Saturn, or the occult, then. And while I agree, "this guy was a nut from the word go", I don't think he "drifted" into anything - or that new age stuff "turned" him into anything - but, like a lot of new agers, it's "peace and love" nonsense gave him the necessary coverage to get away with doing what he wanted.

And finally, no Lance, I don't see the world of humans as "a chaotic, confused place where bad $&%! happens for no apparent reason" because it's never been that way as far as this former-foster child can see. Bad stuff happens because people make bad choices - many times based on their beliefs - and it's only by sorting those beliefs out that we can make some of the bad stuff stop. If I thought otherwise - or saw the world as you do - well, there wouldn't be much point in getting out of bed, or trying to love someone, or anything really, now would there? As I've been forced to say, too many times here, liberal cynicism is one thing about you guys that's really pathetic. It's no wonder that, with such nonsense being out there as the "dominant paradigm", that so many losers just throw their hands up and, like Tony Soprano after he does some seriously heinous BS, exclaims "What are ya gonna do?"

Most times, Lance, people are the blame for stuff - not fate.

No, seriously. You're not well. New age crap is no different than Xtianity or Islam or Judaism. Bad people do bad things, and some of those bad people are involved in things we don't like or don't agree with. Instead of diverting our attention to ranting about the things they are involved in, let's focus on the bad things people do, and making certain as few of those bad things happen as possible.

You've talked about "fighting" against this new age blather... and I've asked you before: What do you want to do? Lay it out. Simple question, I want a simple answer.

I would submit that you don't really have an answer, and you don't really want one. I would submit that you are just using this occult/new age conspiracy blather to cover your own feelings of rejection and hurt, and as a smokescreen to avoid examining your own culpability.

You need help.

And Richard Dawkins, does he "need help"? He calls such people The Enemies of Reason and, while he hasn't included Hillary Clinton, Cherie Blair, and Camille Paglia, etc., in their ranks, I'm also not sure he's aware of their participation or their ambitions for the movement.

And, about my own culpability, what would that be? My mother-in-law was killed by a homeopath - on the other side of the planet - that my new age wife ran off with. Are you suggesting that, except for constantly telling my wife I loved her, not being aware of the dangers of new age belief (like most people attached to what appears to be "kinda new agey" spouses) was my fatal flaw? (Which, BTW, is the opposite of the current problem you've labeled me with, which is being so aware that you've labeled me a conspiracy theorist) Or was it telling her it was all hooey when I found out, fully, what she passionately believed in? Kinda puts you in a win-win situation, whatever it was, doesn't it? Damned if I do and damned if I don't. Please, oh great and wise one, tell me what you would've done - as an average person - in such a unique and bizarre situation?

Yes, Lance has it all figured out:

He knows why Hillary hired a psychic to talk to Eleanor Roosevelt - but it can't be a metaphysical/new age/occult outlook - that's just my imagination.

And he knows why Obama has Oprah's full support, and accepted The Secret - even including a page on his site for it - and campaigns for followers of the Maharishi, but it can't be a metaphysical/new age/occult outlook - because that's just my imagination, too.

And Bill Clinton's stated desire to bring us all to "a higher state of consciousness", is that just my imagination as well?

And why is Cherie Blair accepting bio-electric shields (to ward off "negative energy") from Hillary, while going around buzzing people with her finger in an attempt to transfer that energy - along with all the alternative "treatments" she helped foist on the NHS - that's all in my head too.

And why did Jef Rafkin - one of the inventors of the Apple computer - write an article on the cults (his word) now operating in all of our nursing schools? Oh yea - because a black guy from South Central, Los Angeles was dreaming one day.

Maybe you're the one with the problem, Lance - an excessively liberal, and dark, outlook on life - a problem that inhibits your ability to feel, or understand, anything but that which you, cynically, agree with? If a person doesn't see the world as "a chaotic, confused place where bad $&%! happens for no apparent reason" then Lance will dump all over them - no matter what they've suffered - for their apparent naivety? I know - despite everything I've said to the contrary, almost in defense of occult followers - you've constantly labeled believers as "stupid", so tell me, Lance, how many other "stupid" groups of people do you look down on from your own compassionate perch of enlightenment? Is calling them names your way of extending your hand to your fellow man? Or, in your "chaotic, confused place where bad $&%! happens for no apparent reason" are you just making wicked sport?

Yea, you're a real nice guy - a friggin' beacon to us all.

Again, blah, blah, blah. Ranting about delusional politicians doesn't impress me. Shut off Rush Limbaugh and come back to the real world. Stupid people do stupid things.

Yes. All too often in life you are "damned if you do, and damned if you don't". Especially when you cling to the idea that you are completely blameless and everyone else was out to hurt you, personally. I don't buy it.

Homeopaths, alternative medicine, all that garbage is just a load of horsefeathers. People believe some strange crap. It doesn't make them bad people, just wrong. "Enemies of Reason" sounds about right. So again I ask you. What should we do? From your high horse, what wisdom do you have to offer? So far, all I see is you ranting about the occult, and some delirious ravings about "energy" and such crap. Sounds like urban legends and Rush Limbaugh-style character assassination to me.

Seriously, you need to seek professional help.

You're funny: Rush Limbaugh is the most powerful - and popular - radio host in the country (just single-handedly killed the immigration bill) and you spit his name out like it's dirt. It's no wonder he laughs at you, daily.

And now it's "Stupid people do stupid things"? I thought this was merely ""a chaotic, confused place where bad $&%! happens for no apparent reason"? You're sounding awful confused, Lance. As they say where I come from, "Get your lie straight, man."

And when did I "cling to the idea that you are completely blameless and everyone else was out to hurt you, personally"? It was a new age divorce, Lance - and an ugly one - so, of course, she was out to get me. It wasn't just my imagination. You wrongly accused me, once, of being a racist - is that what you mean? Well, sorry to disappoint you, but that's not me either. Find another stereotype to whip out because "that dog don't hunt."

"Homeopaths, alternative medicine, all that garbage is just a load of horsefeathers."

To non-believers, that's true. But to believers, it's a way to attack us all: do you have a response to people, like Al Qaeda, who won't listen to reason? To people who won't stop screwing with the rest of the world, despite new age's "outlandish excesses" as Camille Paglia said? They see their beliefs crawling, "progressively" across the planet - what do you see, but chaos?

"It doesn't make them bad people, just wrong."

I'd agree, if you could reason with them, but you can't. So, just like you do with christians, it's time for the attack on new age to begin.

""Enemies of Reason" sounds about right. So again I ask you. What should we do? From your high horse, what wisdom do you have to offer?"

I say understand what they see - as they see it - and attack it aggressively. Like roaches, they can't stand a light on 'em.

Too much of the conversation, here, is taken up with jokes and smart people asking the question "do they really believe this crap?" Just answer it with "yes" and get to work:

Pressure reporters, etc., to ask Hillary - directly - why we should elect a psychic consulting/Elenour Roosevelt-talking, bio-electric shield-wearing person as president. Pin her down on it. Don't allow for easy answers or give any wiggle room - what's going on in her head? I betcha, she'd eventually explode and spill the delusional beans.

Ask what Bill Clinton means, about bringing us all to "a higher state of consciousness", and why he works with a con man like Tony Robbins. What's up with him and Ken Wilber's Theory of Everything? Why is he so susceptible to new age nonsense?

Pin Obama down on The Secret - and, damn it, will somebody (finally) hold Oprah's feet to the fire for the spread of *all* this nonsense? Again: Pin her down. Don't allow for easy answers or give any wiggle room.

Just go down the line - we know who these people are - and get the truth. If they are The Enemies of Reason (and they are) then it's our responsibility to defend the gains of the Enlightenment - and protect the gullible.

"Sounds like urban legends and Rush Limbaugh-style character assassination to me."

Hey, man, I didn't tell them to throw their brains away - they did that all on their own.

"Seriously, you need to seek professional help."

Yea, and I noticed that, while I'm openly and honestly answering everything you throw at me, you ducked my question about Richard Dawkins:

Does he "need help" as well, or are you choosing to ignore this huge problem because it's you - not me - who thinks people are too "stupid" to care about, or he's too high and mighty to do so?