If you're going to pull the Galileo Gambit - try to remember who Galileo was

From the "my god these people are dumb files" is this clip from last night's History Channel documentary 9/11 conspiracies.

Ha! Good stuff. Don't worry, they're replaying it Saturday night in case you missed it, but it apparently has the troofers up in arms.

In more 9/11 troof news, Popular mechanics has an update to their original 9/11 debunking piece. Between the two, it's a good summary of 9/11 debunking and well-researched as always.

More like this

Can you imagine...over a hundred years after Magellan circumnavigated the earth poor old Galileo was "locked up for the last few years of his life". :)

Magellan didn't circumnavigate the Earth - he died before he got all the way round.

There's only one important question concerning the attacks, did the US gov't allow/participate in 9/11?

The answer to that query would explain the illegal wire-taps, suspension of habeas corpus, banning of books like "America Deceived" from Amazon, detaining of dissenters in fences miles away from events, and multiple wars based on lies.

How can the gov't be innocent in 9/11 when we have caught it lying so many times (WACO, Ruby Ridge, no WMDs, USS Liberty, Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor, ETC.)?

In law, if you determine a person lies ONCE during his testimony, it can be assumed that he lied in the remainder of his testimony. How come we do not hold the gov't to the same standard as it holds us to?

The gov't lied to us about Iraq and more Americans have died there than in 9/11. If the gov't lied about Iraq then why is everyone so reluctant to believe that the gov't lied about 9/11?

Final link (before Google Books bends to pressure and drops the title):
America Deceived (book)

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but, ah, for fucks sake Paul, zillions of people watched an airplane fly into a tower; the current USAian government is so incompetent they couldn't even deal with a disaster (New Orleans) widely predicted years, if not decades in advance (ref. the National Geographic and Scientific American articles about ten years before); and no creditable motivation or method has ever been proposed other than the bleeding obvious--impact and fire. You might as well claim scuba-diving samurai bumblebees did it, it'd be as credible--more credible, actually, as it could be tested--as the nonsense it wasn't caused by what was televised live.

The gov't lied to us about Iraq and more Americans have died there than in 9/11. If the gov't lied about Iraq then why is everyone so reluctant to believe that the gov't lied about 9/11?

Because the lies about Iraq as well as the truth were within the laws of physics. Plus there's the whole evidence thing.

The twoofers would have us believe that because the government has done bad things in the past, they can do ANY bad thing, even if it involves sorcery, rogue ninja demolitionists planting hushaboom bombs, orbital R9 wave cannons, realistic-looking holographic planes, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And they'd retort that evidence isn't important because ANY evidence can be planted, therefore we should disregard the very notion of evidence.

Re: John McKay's comment - John, you fool, that wasn't Galileo and his brother at Kitty Hawk; that was the Hoofnagles at Jericho (as they did a trial run for their evil plan on 9/11 which Mark [if that's his real name] tries to blame on some guy named Al Kaida or something like that... the nerve...)

Now someone get me my tinfoil hat...

By Steve Murphy (not verified) on 22 Aug 2007 #permalink

The truth at last! The US government is using 9/11 conspiracy theorists to spread a Galileo-based disinformation campaign against the flat-earthers. It's now so obvious.

Seriously, if you produced a solid argument supported by convincing evidence that the US Gov't actually laid the plan for 9/11 and nailed the execution, as disgusted as I would be at my gov't and as loud as I would be calling for their heads, there would still be some part of me thinking, "God, it's about time Uncle Sam managed to do SOMETHING without seriously f'ing it up."

Then again, if there's convincing evidence, that may well mean they did screw up somewhere along the way. Gauging history, that'd be par of the course. Convincing evidence[1] please?

But if your theory of US Gov't collusion in a 9/11 scheme is predicated on me accepting the US Gov't has moved as ably and nimbly as a ninja, a deadly and silent assassin with focused thoughts and perfect economy of motion, you'll have to forgive my mirth. My government can't charitably provide mobile homes to Katrina disaster victims without incidentally poisoning some of them with the gift.

Perhaps, at least on this, we can agree: American politics have become the Special Olympics for the morally disabled. I will grant you the "morally disabled" part if you will grant me the "Special Olympics" part.


[1] "Convincing evidence" in this context means "evidence that would convince a rational jury" - and distinctly not "evidence that convinces people who were already convinced."

By Erisian23 (not verified) on 22 Aug 2007 #permalink

Fools! Thw WTC towers were brought down by Formosan termites wielding DEATH RAYS FROM OUTERSPACE!!!!!

No word on whether said deathrays were hidden in Syria first....

How a couple of journalists from popular mechanics can be considered "experts" against physics professors from the truth movement seems strange.
While it is pointless to debate detail on a blog such as this, it must be said that they did not explain how the entire plane that allegedly crashed in Pennsylvania disappeared with no visible wreckage , how the heat from diesel fuel could make WTC7 collapse, or where is the footage of the actual plane hitting the Pentagon has been hidden and why. There are other glaring ommisions, but the above are the main points.

If you look at the results from the highly regarded Zogby poll run in the U.S,
you will find that roughly half of Americans believe it was an inside job. That is just the U.S. In Europe, Canada and down here in Australia, the mark is closer to 70%.
Make no bones about it, the whole world fears the U.S now as much as the world did Hitler in the 1940's. And the actions of the U.S political elite will burden American's children and grandchildren with the same war guilt that the Germans carry now due to Hitlers actions.
My grandad fought as a U.S Marine in WWII and instilled in me a strong loathing of fascist militarism. How he would be turning in his grave to see the U.S become the very thing he fought against all those years ago.
Americans are by and large good people, and just wish to live their lives peacefully like every other person in this planet. They don't deserve the fate that is coming to them. God bless the American people. God curse the murderers that control them

By Friend from do… (not verified) on 10 Sep 2007 #permalink

Simply put, the journalists at Popular Mechanics are not the experts in this article. They went to actual experts to discuss what happened, and why.

The plane crash in Pennsylvania left no wreckage? Huh? I remember seeing LOTS of wreckage. Some of it was found miles away, as would be expected with a plane slamming into the ground at full flight speed.

Diesel fuel may not have caused the tower to collapse. Jet fuel, however, is much more volatile than diesel. When the impact of the planes and the subsequent explosion blew the fireproofing off the support beams, it exposed them to the full force of the burning fuel. That fireproofing is there because civil engineers KNOW that a fire would cause the supports to weaken, causing the building to collapse.

I have no argument with your assertion that the US has become a danger in today's world. I've been worried about that myself. But poisoning that argument with Troofer nonsense only allows the real issues to disappear under the contempt that argument deserves.

I suppose with the anniversary tomorrow that we're going to hear a lot more of this... <sigh>

Thanks for your reply LanceR.

I don't want to lower the quality of this blog by debating the details, as there is too many factors involved and we could go on for ever. But i will invite you to watch this video. Unlike Loose change, which has more holes in it than swiss cheese, this one is very comprehensive and makes the efforts of people such as popular mechanics look very lame in comparison

I myself do not consider myself a "troofer" so to speak. While i have no doubt that the official conspiracy theory put forward by the 9/11 commission is suspect at best, i have no desire for the alternative reality to actually become official as the consequences, not only the U.S but also her allies such as Australia and England, would be dire. The legal, political and military fallout would bring us to our knees.

But this is the reason i feel that the "truth movement" is so important . Every year, declassified CIA documents are brought forward exposing dodgy activities done by that agency. Up until now though, there has been no consequences and the CIA has gone ahead doing business as usual. The truth movement has now made the situation problematic for the CIA, and they will now be very hesitant to attempt any major false flag operations. Too many people (Americans, Europeans, English, Australians, New Zealanders ect.) are suspicious of them now.

If something major occurred in the U.S now (such as a dirty bomb attack on a U.S city pinned on Iran to justify an invasion for example),the U.S government would struggle to get the same support as they did for Iraq/Afganistan, and it is possible such an act would perhaps incite civil strife by the American people aimed at the U.S government itself.

Without even knowing it, it may well be the case that the "truth movement" is saving thousands or even millions from a violent death. I feel it is not unpatriotic to question our governments actions. I feel it is our patriotic duty TO question them.

By Friend from do… (not verified) on 11 Sep 2007 #permalink

Hey, "Friend"?

Your argument seems to be that the Truther movement, even if it is completely ludicrous, has proven useful because it has so undercut public faith in the U.S. government's honesty that from now on the CIA will not be able to get away with doing bad stuff.

I don't know how good the view from Australia can be, but here in the U.S. that's just impossible. The current president and congress are only slightly more popular than NAMBLA, but since when does popular sentiment have anything to do with Republican foreign policy? Millions of people protested against the Iraq War, for naught. The only thing that will keep Bush from invading Iran will be if he forgets to. Truther-fed conspiracism is only "useful" at the level of the individual consumer, who will probably use it for something incredibly self-destructively stupid like not vaccinating their kids with medicines made in the USA.

The main problem with the "truth movement" is that they poison all debate on 9/11. Anyone who questions any aspect of 9/11 can now be dismissed as another of "those loons". The facts of 9/11 are fairly simple:

1. Saudi terrorists hijacked several planes and flew them into buildings.
2. As a result of these crashes, the buildings collapsed.

We do need to have a discussion about the events that led up to 9/11. What did they know, and when did they know it? Why were the PDB's ignored? We had an FBI informant living with two of the hijackers. What did he report? Why did law enforcement and intelligence fail to connect the dots that appear so clear in hindsight?

When troofers argue about the US planting bombs in the WTC, and a missile hitting the Pentagon, it covers the very real failures that failed to stop this from happening.

The Bush administration has been incompetent in everything they've tried. It may be argued that they have been *deliberately* incompetent in the service of their "drown government in a bathtub" philosophy. This bunch could never have pulled off a conspiracy of this scale. It's just not credible.

Firstly, i must say that the U.S has no better friend than Australia. We are brothers, and although we have the odd disagreement, when it comes to the crunch we are ALWAYS the first to stand beside you. On a personal front, my dad is American and served in Vietnam. My grandad was a U.S marine. I love America as much as you guys.
Also, i am not trying to sit up on some sort of high horse. Australia is currently involved in it's own little bit of neo-imperialism in the pacific - we militarily occupy numerous pacific islands at the moment and have plans to expand further. And our covert operations aimed at destabalising Indonesia are proceeding as normal. Certainly Australia can not take any moral high ground, but that subject is off topic
Now i am not adverse to the U.S doing what they have to do to stay on top. If the U.S employ a love and kisses foreign policy, they will be chewed up by Russia and China in no time. American sometimes NEEDS to fight - for example Vietnam. Many say that Vietnam was a bad war and America lost. I don't subscribe to that. Vietnam was communism's high water mark - their Staligrad. After Vietnam, communism shrank away into nothingness. Had America not fought, things may well have turned out differently.
But the war on terror is different. Prior to Iraq, militant Islamisism was on life support. Now it is a very powerful movement that will definitely come back to haunt us.
Now back on topic (lol)I feel the "truther" movement has the potential to bring much needed change in the U.S.
(1) It has created a healthy cynicism of U.S mass media. This may force the media to return to their journalistic roots. Also, it may start the necessary legislative process of de-concentration of media ownership that has become concentrated in the hands of a handful of powerful media moguls.
(2) It may bring about the disbandment of the CIA, or at least make them far more accountable to congress. The same can be said of the NSA (No Such Agency hehe) What the hell are they doing? We don't know, the congress and senate doesn't know, even the President doesn't know. The existence of such a secretive agency is contrary to democratic principles, this issue must be addressed.
(3) The watering down of Presidential powers, and returning the power to congress (thus the people) Many Americans are unaware of the massive powers the President now holds. Go here to learn more.
This situation should be unacceptable to Americans.

Hi LanceR
If after looking at all the evidence, you believe that the official account is correct, then i respect that. If we all agreed on everything then what a boring world we would live in.
I agree that President is incompetent. But i would not add Cheney, MOSAD or the CIA to the incompetent list. The CIA and MOSAD in particular are VERY competent. The notion that some guy in a cave in Afghanistan could pull of such an operation so seamlessly is just too fantastic to believe. In any case, such an action would be against Bin Ladens interests, yet very much in the interests of Cheney and Isreal. I'm not accusing anyone. I am saying that whenever a crime is committed, you should immediately look to who stes to gain from such a crime. This has not been done in regards to the 9/11 attacks.
Like them or hate them, the "troofers" may well instigate important changes in America that will be good for not only you and your kids, but for the world at large

By Friend from do… (not verified) on 11 Sep 2007 #permalink

I always thought conspiracy theorists were dumb just because of their basic misunderstandings of the subjects at hand(usualyl physics) but it turns out they don't know anything about, well,anything. thats awesome.