And Alex Jones and Mike Adams are their Fred Phelps. It's a wonder that Anonymous doesn't retaliate against these ghouls as well as against Westboro who are planning to picket the Boston Marathon funerals.
Why are the the same thing? Because they're all ghouls, and they all use any tragic event to bolster their warped, abhorrent world view no matter what the facts are, and no matter how offensive to the victims.
Within minutes, with no one knowing any facts, Jones claims this is a false flag attack. The only appropriate response to an event like this, within the first minutes and hours, is to hope the first responders and emergency personnel can get to and rescue as many as possible. But to the ghoul, every event such as this is another chance to push their agenda of hate. For the Westboro Baptists, similarly not knowing anything, they think this is further evidence that God hates America because we tolerate homosexuality. For the conspiracy theorist, all traumatic events instantly become incorporated into their evidence that the government/FBI/CIA whatever is faking them/planning them to increase their control over us. No matter what the evidence is, or will be, it will just be further sealed into this fixed, false belief. Avicenna at FtB has a good post (warning for graphic images) of examples of how despicable this behavior can be. I think one of the most grotesque acts yet was one of the CTs asking the governor of Massachusetts if this was a false flag. How stupid and awful a person do you have to be to ask that question in the wake of such a tragedy? Here is the governor, trying to address a crisis, and some scumbag is basically asking (1) is the US government randomly murdering innocent US citizens (2) is he in on it? To the governor's immense credit, he didn't immediately jump into the crowd and start strangling the questioner. CTs were so awful as to accuse the victims of just being actors, of the whole thing being staged, or the whole thing actually being performed by government (read your fellow US citizens), including Mike Adams' immediate blaming of the event on government agencies. What is their evidence? They have no evidence. They just hate without reason.
These conspiracy theorists are just another type of hatemonger. This event is just the latest proof. No matter what the reality is, what the facts are, every event just becomes further proof of their warped and hateful world view. Never mind that it casts civil servants and law enforcement as the murderers, the victims as liars, and the rest of us as fools, that's what they believe. We shouldn't continue to tolerate this as just fringe wackiness. This is hate mongering, and the worst kind. It's hate mongering in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy, designed to make us hate and fear our fellow citizens, those trying to help us, and those who were hurt the most. It's hate and divisiveness when we should be pulling together rather than apart. It's no different from what the Westboro Baptists church does. And Alex Jones and Mike Adams are just like Fred Phelps.
Mark, I think you're being unfair to the Phelps clan here.
Yes, the Westboro Baptist Church crowd are obnoxious clowns. They have been doing this sort of thing for about two decades now, and they are behaving exactly the way anybody who is familiar with them would expect them to behave. Nobody who isn't already a WBC member is buying the brand of manure the Phelpses are selling.
That's not true of Jones and Adams, and that's why I think those two are worse. Jones and Adams have some (admittedly undeserved) credibility outside their immediate circles, so people who might not have otherwise thought along those lines may pick up the notion of this being a false flag operation. And as you point out, there was no evidence in the early information (and still isn't, to my knowledge) to lend any plausibility to the false flag argument.
Certain media figures also behaved badly here. I'm referring to the case of the Saudi national who certain media outlets claimed, in the face of explicit denials by the Boston police and the FBI, was a suspect. He appears to have been guilty of nothing more than running away from an explosion while Arab. Based on what I have seen so far, I can't rule out an Al Qaeda plot, but there is no particular reason to assume the bomber is a foreign national, let alone this particular foreign national (not all Muslims are Al Qaeda members).
Mostly agree with Eric Lund, although I am not sure that these false flag things happen often enough or on a big enough scale, whatever real ones there are I know nothing about, to warrant many of Jones and Adams theories (9/11 an inside job, Aurora a hoax with actors and same for Sandy among others).
And as to the last point, there is a fair number of legislators and people in the country that are already of the mind that Muslims=Terrorist so it just fuels their own innate bias. to many, or at least a very vocal minority, anything that is not Christian is evil and lends itself to violence (ignoring contradictions to the contrary).
I do not understand Westboro protesting these or any other funeral for that matter. They are nuts. Apostate nuts.
However, Anonymous is actually on Alex Jones' side.
As for 9/11 being an inside job, I never believed it except for the fact that the collapse of building seven never made sense. A perfectly good building a fairly good distance away that wasn;t even close to hit suddenly collapsed all on its own. Oh, and three weeks before 9/11 happened a shipping company that had its main office in one of the towers moved out after being there for over 30 years. It was owned by the Rothchild family. Need I say more?
If you think sandy hook was not a planned false flag event, think again. One of the "dead" victims ran in the Boston marathon and was even interviewed locally on the evening news, yet she died at sandy Hook. Lanza's mediacl records were never released. The Bushmaster .223 personal defense weapon was never fired. He ony fired the handguns. The Bushmaster was still in his trunk after he was taken in.
As for the boston bombing being a false flag event, it is unlikely, but keep in mind it happened 48 hours ahead of a crucial senate gun control vote. Was it designed to allow senators to offer a sympathy vote? Who knows. That's a far fetched idea indeed, but let's face it. With the DHS buying 2700 war machines (enorous armored vehicles), hundreds of armed drones, 2 billion rounds of hollow point ammo (that cannot be used in foreign wars becuase of Geneva convention rules) and FEMA building massive prisons that can hold 20,000 prisoners bute remain completely empty it makes people wonder just what is being planned in the dark recesses of political minds. All this going on,m and you wonder why people don;t trust their government.
News update ... A Tupelo Mississippi man has been arrested for send the ricin laced letter to several politicians. This is about 75 miles from me. Kinda scary, but officials are saying he had been in trouble with the law before.
News update ... anonymous person on the internet claiming to be named Kevin Sanders is a conspiracist, and quite possibly an idiot. Investigations into his intellectual incapacity are ongoing.
From what I understand from work, some asshole in this bunch has already dug up an old photo, and/or photoshopped one, in an attempt to make it look like the Sandy Hook principle was "at" the marathon. Right.. Sorry, got home from work and didn't bother to refresh the page, seems "Kevin" beat me to posting about the bullshit idiocy that this person was somehow at the race...
Calling these people ghouls is an insult to ghouls. In this day and age ***anyone*** can fake a photo. Hell, I know some people who, if you gave them a few days, could probably fake fraking video footage, at least a few frames anyway. Yet, we are supposed to believe some conspiracy nut *personally* got handed a real picture, instead of a fake one? Sure... And I bet those videos of bigfoot are all 100% real, in the total absence of one single scrap of evidence too, right?
Bloody hell. If this was a conspiracy, it would have to have been planned by some of the bloody stupidest people in the known universe. Who the F doesn't hide the fake victims, keep them away from any possible detection, or at least ship them to another country, while planing plastic surgery. No.. They faked an event, for the supposed purpose of taking away people's guns, then only tried to take away military style guns, settled on restricting how much ammunition they could have in them, and making sure crazy people had a harder time getting them, neither of which might even pass, then, just to show that they are complete and total idiots, they let the "victims" go free to show up any damn place they pleased, like a damned marathon, which half the planet could be watching, and thousands of people would be taking photos at.
There where people smarter than that in the movie "Idiocracy". If this was really a conspiracy Kevin, who planned it, the two idiots from "Dumb and Dumber"?
It always amazes me that people simultaneously think that they personally uncovered "real" evidence of a conspiracy, which proves it was all faked, which there is no way in hell competent people would have let them get hold of, or, if they had the kind of power to plan such things, wouldn't have been monitoring known conspiracy sites, and arranging these "truth tellers" to have unexpected accidents, if they so much as peeped one single inconvenient fact, yet, they are, simultaneously, so damn stupid they "lost track" of one of their fake victims, and somehow let them be photographed at a famous marathon. You can't have it both ways.
I have to admit, I can't work out whether you are truly crazy or just very clever at writing Poe.
Kevin is crazy, no Poe about him.
Westboro Baptists are pacifists who do not believe in war or gun ownership...I don't see the connection since pacifism is on the left wing paradigm. They are very loud and vocal about their views, but I have never heard them threaten physical violence.....I have never heard them talk about conspiracies actually unless you are calling their religious beliefs a conspiracy theory...
Good point Kevin, the libbys just dont want to believe the govement ever does anything wrong. I have to wonder why they trust the president after everything hes done and everything he wants to do, its like theyre in denial about it. And they accused me of being in denial when i tried to show them.
Im curious to know, who is paying mark to smear people calling the govement out for all its secret subterfuge like this one, cause its like hes always toeing the line the libbys are saying. If i didnt know better Id say mark is just on the roll of the govement agency responsible for this, after all isnt it just so convenient that he smears Alex Jones, whos probably the biggest threat to the govement today. All mark does is support things that the govement uses to take peoples freedom away. I cant believe anybody would want that unless theyre just stupid or being paid off. SO he has to say alex is just like westboro baptist church, its all just to discredit what he has to say. Its all the libbys can do, call people names and try making them look bad.
This is proof that the homosexual agenda is dangerous to society, its causing all these problems, its clear it makes people immoral. Its probably a big process of desenstization, cause once kids stop having a father and mother they become dangerous, then they cause other people to be immoral. If you didnt think about this before, maybe youll think about it now. Obvious to most of us that were suffering because we dont care about values, todays kids dont have any moral values and its all the fault of the libbys for destroying the family. But thats just what they want, so the govement rules us all and does everything for us, and so they take away our values with this agenda. Well its hurting society, and our collapse will be here any day now. Unless we have a new revolutionry war to make America Christian again, and demand marriage be between a man and woman, the way God intended.
"but I have never heard them threaten physical violence"
Telling people they are evil, deserve to die, and will be condemned to hell isn't a type of physical violence, but it isn't the behavior of sane, decent, people either.
"unless you are calling their religious beliefs a conspiracy theory…"
At best you could call their beliefs non-mainstream: more realistically you could call their beliefs asinine. You also realize, I hope, that two of Phelps' sons have stated that their father routinely beat them and their mother (Phelps' wife).
WTC 7 was DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH the twin towers. It was pulverized and set wildly on fire by having the two tallest buildings on earth collapse onto and all around it.
Dumb trash. Go back to your Loose Change accusations that the planes fired missiles at the buildings.
Westboro Baptists are pacifists who do not believe in war or gun ownership…I don’t see the connection since pacifism is on the left wing paradigm.
The connection is that both are ghouls that use tragedy to advance their agenda of hate. The Westboro Baptists have announced they will show up with their "god hates fags" signs at the funerals of the boston marathon victims. Similarly, within minutes, Jones and Adams are using these events to push their virulent, paranoid, anti-government agenda, even as the first responders, emergency personnel, law enforcement (read government employees), were attempting to save the victims, and begin an investigation into the crime.
What is their evidence government played a role? None. Other than their imagined evidence from previous imagined conspiracies, they have no evidence, no knowledge to justify such accusations, including the one directed at the governor of Massachusetts.
This is why they are ghouls. They know nothing. They actually know less than nothing, because everything they think they know is just paranoid delusion. Yet they make outrageous claims against those who at that very moment were trying to save lives, and investigate the crime. Not to mention, the claims against the victims that they were faked, or actors. It's despicable behavior.
Unless we have a new revolutionry war to make America Christian again, and demand marriage be between a man and woman, the way God intended.
Is there any better evidence of the sickness and lack of patriotism involved in their movement than this (if it's not a poe)? Because we no longer express bigotry and hatred towards homosexuals there should be a revolution (read more bombs like this one, people killed, violence etc.), to replace our secular constitutional democracy with a bigoted theocracy. Charming indeed.
No one trusts the government completely here, and that's the classic straw man thrown in the face of those that believe in using government for accomplishing some good. The radicals, like Beck, dehumanize anyone associated with government, as if they become evil if their paycheck comes from the treasury. But this is a poorly-examined viewpoint, and little more than anarchism. I like clean water, clean air, effective drugs, a social safety net so the poors don't kill us in the night, hospitals and schools, roads and airplanes that don't crash in the sky. I like basic science research, standards for professionals, utilities and vital services. I like the Smithsonian. I like national parks and zoos. You don't get these things without some form of shared interest, and common cause that government allows. I'm not a fan of foreign wars, billion dollar military boondoggles, and government intrusion into the medical exam room (eg TV ultrasounds), or the bedroom. Anyone who has followed this blog for any amount of time can probably see I have a civil libertarian streak, and care about creating an effective government that serves our interests, while staying out of our personal, medical, or sexual decisions. So there is plenty of government activity I actively despise and rail against. But that doesn't mean I make "government" some homogeneous juggernaut of evil. It's just a tool, one we must control. The other delusion in play is that it's our guns that keep government in check, all the while we've had them we've seen the patriot act, drone strikes, and loss of habeus corpus. I think that shows how they're a poor preventative of government abuse. The way we keep government under control is with votes, lobbying for civil interests and civil rights lawyers, not your pathetic pea shooters.
Well-reasoned response, Mark, and eminently quotable. Loved that last paragraph!
Without pathetic pea shooters civil rights lawyers and voters would not be able to hold their own against soldiers placing them in internment camps.
It is the pathetic pea shooters that protect the citizen from tyranny, home invasion, wild animals (including dictators), and other threats against liberty. The second amendment was designed to protect the people against abuse of power and tyranny run amuck.
I have heard Thom Hartman, the great and powerful, state that if government did send soldiers out to round people up and confiscate people's stuff, that civilians with small arms fire would be more than defenseless. I guess he missed the whole Iraq war. It took nearly 150,000 soldiers with all available technology nearly a decade to whip up on poorly armed civilians with homeade bombs and thrirty year old assault rifles oprating in small cluster groups with guerilla tactics. What did we learn from this? We learned that it is nearly impossible to defeat an enemy hell bent on survival and winning. Take into account all the ex military people in America along with ex cops and those military and cops who would defect rather than commit treason against their own people. Now add those to 50 million able bodied people (men, women and children -yes children in the south learn to shoot at 4 years old or younger sometimes) would resist any form of armed confiscation by federal authorities. If it took 150,000 soldiers with the aid of the navy, Air Force, Marines, Army, special forces, police, and hundreds of allied soldiers nearly a decade to take down a country smaller than Texas with roughly a few thousand fighters who fought back with homeade bombs and worn out rifles, how do you think it would go if they faced 50 million angry people who are about to be invaded?
Not saying a scenario would ever play out like that, but the potential is there. This current administration would do almost anything at this point to collect people's second and first amendment rights. That includes lethal armed military force. Why do you think obama was recently caught asking generals if they were willing to fire upon American civilians if ordered?
Not to be a conspiracy nut, but this administration is dangerous. Too many high profile figures have had too many "accidents" lately to not look suspicious at this point.
I do not think obama would send in the US military to confiscate people's rights and belongings becuase a great number of them would refuse and turn on their own superiors. Or at least I would hope they would keep their oath to protect America and not attack it.
I guess I have said enough. I realize that reality goes unnoticed at this site while crap like global warming remains at the forefront of thought and life. Oh well. Not my problem. Global warming was a good joke, but it is not funny anymore. You need to come up with another one. That one is old.
Kevin, is there nothing you won't lie about, make up out of whole cloth, or assert without any link at all to reality?
dangerous administration? High ranking people having accidents? Willing to confiscate weapons and put people on campus?
your crap would be funny, except that it proves the set of people who are, like you, extremely delusional is not empty.
Kutch is among the best Pinot I've had. His passion and hard work is paying off. Great article showing a beautiful trend in the wine world.
The last administration a) passed laws which allowed wire taping, and secret surveillance of US citizens (and more than a dozen bills have been proposed by Republicans, with the backing of , b) tried to pass laws of exactly the sort that Mark mentions, about what you can do in your bedroom, with your own property, your own data, etc., c) started an extra war for no other reason than to "finish what daddy started", d) created Guantanamo, and the Republicans have been fighting "this" administration tooth and nail to make sure it can't be closed, like promised, and a long list of other horrors, but "this" administration is the one we should be worried about? Go back to watching Faux News and stop bothering people that actually know what the F they are talking about. Every single thing the right accuses the left, and specifically Obama of trying to do is something they either a) started, and Obama failed to remove, b) have said they would like to do, or c) have done, and then lied about, knowing the part of the public they know will vote for them again doesn't watch, or read, any news, other than those channels, websites, and news feeds, which run their own propaganda, or, if they do, will believe what they have been told, that its all a "left wing conspiracy to hide the real truth, which everyone *expect* those right wing news sources are in on".
Its hardly a surprise our government can't function. The Democrats can't figure out how to line their pockets, and get anything done at the same time, without compromising at least "some" principles, so can't do shit, while the other side doesn't give a damn what the public thinks at all any more, and will fake polls, to contradict other polls, as means to claim that, again, "the left" is lying when, for example, 90% of the people want more background checks, but the tobacco indus... oh, sorry, NRA, (they use the same rhetoric of freedom, and rights, and buyers choice, etc., etc., with the word "gun" in place of "cigarette" as the fake 'smoker's rights' people did for the tobacco industry), insist that their "far more accurate", which is to say, carefully phrased, to get the correct answer, polls say only 5% support it.
Because, the polls made by the people trying to defend a position are always true, and accurate, but *****everyone else's***** are all conspiratorial lies, no matter who did the polls. :eyeroll:
Oh, and Kevin... Two things - unless the right wing gets its way and converts the whole military into Fundamentalist Christians (you will note there isn't a single case of all those radical liberal atheists running around trying to convert entire military bases, but dozens of cases, just of the ones known, of the other), the military will never support anyone trying to do the things you propose. Second - if they did, an air burst nuke doesn't leave a lot of radiation, the buildings are still intact after, mostly, they don't need to worry, at all, about your little fucking pop guns, which no one is actually taking away anyway, just limiting to non-crazy people, and.. they can always blame it on the Muslims. So.. if the military decided to support the dictators, your delusions of fighting back.. are complete crap. The only reason the middle east has been successful at it is because, thankfully, no one has been elected to the presidency so far who is **actually** insane enough to drop nukes on them, or stupid enough to try to claim that this is what most Americans would want, instead of, more than likely, resulting in the military itself shooting the bastard that ordered it.
The only people I see trying to commit treason here are the ones that refuse to pass legislation to properly treat the mentally ill, prevent them getting weapons, rebuild our infrastructure, and pay people a living wage. Guess which side that puts you on...
Deleted for off-topic, cut-and-paste trolling - ed
The fact that there are people slightly less intelligent than yourself (like creationists) does not make you intelligent.
Fox have employed a conspiracy theorist. The information in here comes from the NYT.
The FBI carried out the 1993 World Trade Centre bombing. It was reported in the New York Times at that time. They were outed in open court. Someone recorded them !
FBI organizes almost all terror plots in the US
The FBI has in recent years used trained informants not just to snitch on suspected terrorists, but to set them up from the get-go. A recent report put together by Mother Jones and the Investigative Reporting Program at the University of California-Berkley analyses some striking statistics about the role of FBI informants in terrorism cases that the Bureau has targeted in the decade since the September 11 attacks.
"The problem with the cases we're talking about is that defendants would not have done anything if not kicked in the ass by government agents," Martin Stolar tells Mother Jones. Stolar represented the suspect involved in a New York City bombing plot that was set-up by FBI agents. "They're creating crimes to solve crimes so they can claim a victory in the war on terror." For their part, the FBI says this method is a plan for"preemption," "prevention" and "disruption."
"The FBI carried out the 1993 World Trade Centre bombing."
And another loon pops up.
It's amazing that now that we have seen all the information from Boston, that the suspects killed a cop, robbed a convenience store, carjacked a person that they then identified themselves as the bombers to, were witnessed throwing bombs at police in a firefight, that even now, a day later, on April 20th, this fool is posting this nonsense? Really?
It just goes to show. There is no changing these people. It's an illness. There is no amount of information or proof that can't be ignored, or dismissed by the conspiracist. There is no point arguing with them. They have defective minds.
Smif reminds me of this old joke:
A group of elderly JFK conspiracy theorists were comparing notes when one of them suddenly had a heart attack. After going through the whole tunnel light scenario he finds himself facing God. He asks "Oh Lord, who really killed JFK?" And God replied "It was Oswald acting alone." At that point the EMTs were able to jolt him back to life. Later in the hospital with his co-theorists he said in a low voice "The conspiracy is bigger than we thought."
I love it. I'm remembering that one.
I doubt if the FBI does any plotting of their own. Their Division 5 people are a little shaky at best, but if anyone is going to carry out these attacks, Al Qaeda is it. Then again our own CIA is giving muslim terrorists weaons in Syira just like they did in Libya.
Generally the thrid week in April through the first week in May is indeed considered satanic ritual times. Most bad things that have happened that required elites to sacriice innocnet people have happened within the April 19 timeline. Daivid Koresh in Waco, the Oklahoma City Bombing, the last Jewish people in hiding in poland captured, etc. Do a google hsitory search and you will find some pretty terrible things have happened around April 19 every single year as far back as the early 1700s in this country. Every incident involves fire and someone getting blown up or burned alive.
As for JFK, the CIA killed him becuase of what he was about to tell on LBJ and NASA. Read the Secret History of NASA by Richard Hoagland. NASA is full of masons and secret society types.
As for 9/11, I have no doubts about Bin Laden being behind the attacks. It was convenient, however, for the CIA to know about it and NOT prevent it. Remember that the Bin Laden family and the Bush family have been close friends for years. Remember that Bush Sr. was also a CIA director as well as a sitting council member of the orginal MJ-12 group.
Eric, the FBI, I believe, are on our side. However, their Division 5 people are sort of shady. Not exactly FBI types, but they get the title nonetheless. If you are ever questioned by the FBI, first look one of them in the eye, smile, and ask "Division 5?" and watch the response.
These people should be hauled in and put in an asylum, They are paranoid delusional and a danger to society. Trouble is we have Senators in Congress ranting the same crap along with idiots in the mainstream media. Dangerous crazy people and some of them are in Congress running or should I say ruining our country. Not one ounce of rational thought, just ranting lunacy and bigotry and hatred. Things like these tragedies bring out and shine a light on all the ugliness we have out there and at least we get to see who they are more clearly.
Thank you for your words of wisdom, your superhuman intelligent analysis of the situation, and for being so understanding of those of us who refuse to be part of your fantasy world. May our asylum room be ever comforting. may God bless our FEMA concentration camp ...
@Kevin....God yall are crazier than I thought! Talk about fantasy world. I doubt you have any concept of what God is....Really! Take your sarcasm and your insane bs to wherever you want...you can hallucinate and dredge up whatever hateful scenarios your crazy mind can conjure... but there is enough real trouble out there in this world to deal with without dreamin stuff up....Go see a shrink!
I think you're wrong about Kevin. It has to be Poe - no-one could be that batshit crazy.
Kevin is not a Poe. It's ridiculous I agree, but real. And I keep blocking his IP yet he keeps coming back! It's tiresome, there's no point arguing with him, the demons in his head keep getting in the way.
Yes, I strongly suspected his posts were real - but I used the Poe comment more as a sarcastic, snide remark to express just how deluded he appears to be.
Unfortunately, people with views like that are all over the web, but usually they live in their own little echo chambers.
It’s a wonder that Anonymous doesn’t retaliate against these ghouls as well as against Westboro
Anons regularly promote ops against Jones and Westboro; last week there was an op against Westboro, and there was another last year in which Westboro's servers were compromised.