Flirting With Disaster

No, the first lesson is to back everything up before doing anything major to the system.

The second lesson is to get a Mac. ;-)

Ed,

I have 2 suggestinos.

Have you noticed how cheap hard-drives are getting? To do this conversion, buy another hard drive. Take out the old hard drive and
set aside carefully, then install the new one. Install XP on an empty drive. Go through the fun process of running Windows Update and bringing your copy of Windows up to date. Install a good 3rd party virus protection product. Once that is done, you can likely install your old hard drive as a secondary drive on your system. Once it's installed, you can copy all your old data to the new drive. If all else fails, remove the new drive and insert the old drive and boot Windows 98.

Second, you might want to look at this article.
http://www.sans.org/reading_room/whitepapers/windows/1298.php

It's old but the recommendations are still timely.

...or switch to Ubuntu Linux. But those are learning curves, Orac, and users who stick with '98 almost until Vista aren't that focused on their computers.

Ed, buy a new computer. If you're comfortable with Windoze, then get one with XP but stay under 800 bucks. If you want to try something new, listen to Orac and get a mac. Get in the regular habit of burning your files to DVD and don't wait so long next time.

I've been doing computer support full-time for 11 years and even I don't like to 'upgrade' operating systems. The failure rate is too high. I don't mind wiping a drive entirely and installing fresh but that is not something for most users to attempt either.

Glad to see you online! Heck of a way to spend a holiday.

The way I normally handle an unbootable Windows box is by firing up a Knoppix LiveCD and copying any corrupted files over from another PC. Despite Microsoft's best efforts, it's very easy to fix a computer in this fashion.

Whups, Jim Ramsey posted while I was typing. Installing fresh on a new hard drive as he suggests is also a good strategy, and so is removing your old hard drive and installing it as a second on your new system.

Windows systems really aren't made for upgrading the OS unless you also upgrade the hardware. I had an old computer that I upgraded from windowsME to XP and it ran slowly; i can almost guarantee you that a 98 system would crawl under XP unless you also upgrade the hardware. It's better just to buy a new computer, and if you're still running 98 then that's probably due.

I was going to post some suggestions, but everyone has already taken all the good ones. Darnnit.

I have had several MACs and have never had a problem upgrading to a new operating system, other then the fact that some programs don't run as well under the new operating system. Apple is less careful then Microsoft relative to backwards compatibility.

The problem is not that the computer is outdated. I built a new computer about a year and a half ago, so it's still plenty fast and powerful for what I do (I don't play games, so I don't need the latest and greatest). I've just kept reinstalling Win98 with every new computer I've built for the last 7 years or so (I generally build a new one every couple years).

I actually did try the second hard drive thing first, but I did it with an older 40 gig hard drive I've got (the main hard drive is 80 gig). I wiped it clean and tried to install it on there first, but since I had wiped the OS off it and tried to boot from a Win98 startup disk, the WinXP CD couldn't be run from DOS. So then I installed that 40 gig drive as a secondary drive and figured I would just boot up to my C drive but install WinXP on the secondary drive (there is an option to tell the installation what drive to install it on). But that's where everything went to crap. So I was trying to do what Jim Ramsey suggested, it just didn't work out the way I wanted it to. In retrospect, perhaps I should have reset the bios to boot up from the installation CD (assuming it's bootable) rather than booting up to the Win98 startup disk in the A drive and run the installation from there. But I don't think that would have fixed the missing file problem that killed the installation later.

I used to live thru the same trepidations and challenges. Then I switched to a Mac. I have found the Macs to far easier to upgrade op system, far easier to move data from one computer, just far more fun and easy to use. I haven't had any issues with compatability and migration from Win to Mac was a snap.

Suggestion aside for how to do the upgrade, I can only say from a security perspective it's a really bad to be running Windows 98. Microsoft discontinued support for it a few months ago and no longer release patches for it. Eventually there will be a security vulnerability (remote buffer overflow or something as bad) that will affect multiple version of Windwows (including 98) and you won't be able to patch.

I think you had the right idea going to Windows XP. I wish you a quick successful upgrade AFTER your backup. :-)

Under WindowsXP there is no more DOS. If the disc is bootable then you need to set the bios to check the cd/dvd drive upon boot. If it's not bootable, load the disc from within 98.

Ed,

The XP CD wasn't bootable ??? Was it a CD to upgrade from 98 to XP? Id you build your own computers, I'll assume you know how to get into your BIOS and see that you try to boot from CD before booting from your hard drive.

Now I'm confused.

I run both Linux and XP. I need the latter because some of the tools I use to work my customers only run on XP. BTW, I can highly recommend Open Office (www.openoffice.org). I run it on both the XP and the Lunix machines. The price is right too.

Ed, you're a lot geekier than i gave you credit for. Please forgive me for stereotyping you.

Now I do suggest you start experimenting with Ubuntu.

Ed,

Firstly backing up regularly is always the smart thing to do. There's numerous ways of doing this (burn to CD/DVD, backup online, second hard-disk, etc) so you can take your pick - I'd advise using more than one to be sure.

Secondly if you're in the same situation again don't panic! The number of people I've seen loose months of data because in the middle of installing an OS it's failed and they've gone and re-formatted their hard-disk to make it work. In future if you get to a situation when you can't boot your PC at all call a tech-savvy friend and get them to come round with their PC. They can pull out your hard-disk, plug it into their box and still get to your data even if your hard-disk won't boot! This way you, hopefully, won't loose any data.

But back it up anyway. ;-)

Ed,

ALWAYS BACK UP BEFORE DOING ANY KIND OF UPGRADE/INSTALL. :)

I'm speaking as someone who's been doing sysadmin type stuff for 10 years.

And those who told you to boot off the XP CD and install fresh know what they're talking about - listen to them :)

I just bought a laptop with XP on it. I didn't overwrite it with linux, like I usually do. But once you have XP installed, I'd recommend installing an instance of vmware and putting fedora or some linux on that. Who knows, you might like it. And if not, all you've lost is a bit of disk space that you can get back by removing the VM. And a bit of time.

decrepitoldfool: Ubuntu has the same problem as the rest of the linux distros: terrible hardware support. Unless you only want the very basic features of your hardware or you build a computer specifically buying the few products of each type of hardware that have good linux support (nvidia, for example), or are willing to go through hours and days of headaches trying to tweak things to work for you... it's just not worth it. I've tried it, and I certainly like many features such as the much faster load-time for software, I found myself not using it enough just because I could only get 1/10th out of my hardware that I can get out of on Windows.

Matthew - I agree. That's the primary reason I did not put linux on this laptop. Wireless suppor sucks. Scanner support sucks. Printer support doesn't... webcam support is iffy. I was getting tired of having a $100 doorstop where my scanner is.

There comes a time when you have to choose between being ideological and practical - and decide what you're willing to live without.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not blaming LInux. Linux is certainly easily capable of suporting any hardware you throw at it. I blame MS and the hardware manufacturers. But whomever you blame, it is what it is.

Another advantage of Macs is that one can install the operating system on an external hard drive (firewire for older Macs, firewire or USB 2 for the Intel Macs) and boot from there.

At that point I cringed because, like an idiot, I assumed this process would go perfectly smoothly and didn't bother to back up anything on my hard drive.

Risk-taker! You're on the slippery slope now. Next thing you know, you'll be swimming with stingrays.

Somnitista, or maybe coming on to Michelle Malkin...

Trust me on this, you don't want to do an upgrade from Win98 to XP. If you want XP on that machine you will be SO much better off if you do a clean install. If you are worried about losing your files, get a cheap HD off newegg.com for 40 bucks, put it in place of your existing drive, boot with the xp cd and get it installed, then plug your old drive in as a slave to the new one with the clean install of xp.

I still have files saved from back when I was working on windows 3.1. ;-)

I think it would increase your sex appeal in civil libertarian circles if you made the switch to open source software.

What Orac said. Mac OS. Get a Mac.

Ubuntu Linux is nice, if you stay away from any more toxic kernel updates, but it's not Mac OS and it's not really rrady for prime time (YMMV especially on an X86 install.)

And, I prefer the Gnome install to the K install, but there is more stuff available for K. You could install everything, of course.

And, oh yeah, whatever OS you have... Backup, backup, backup, backup.

Not just for OS installs and software updates, just... Backup, backup, backup, backup.

By the way: Apple is MUCH more careful than Microsoft about backwards compatibility of their stuff, despite comments above.

They've leapt CPUs twice (old Motorola, PPC, Intel) and created an entirely new OS (Micorosft is still working on that) and old style Mac OS stuff still, mostly, runs more than five years after that OS was buried, on everything but the Intel machines (and even that can be accomplished.)

I would have removed the hard drive and hooked it up to another system so that I could copy the files before continuing. But hey you lucked out :)

I am a Mac person, and a computer Neaderthal. To upgrade to OS X, I called in an expert friend, and sat back and drank beer.

(oof course, he drank beer too, but he was an expert, he could get away with it)

And as I watched my friend go to it over two days of action, I rememberred the otherr friend who told that upgrading to OS X was simple!

Simple for Cro Magnon maybe, but beyond a Neaderthal!

Take the Mac fundies suggestions with a grain of salt. While Macs are perfectly good computers they are not the flawless devices that so many of their adherents would have you believe.

I have worked at a couple place (print shops) where Macs are used (because they are supposedly better for graphics programs) and have personally watched my employers struggle with many problems just like you might find with Windows machines.

And Macs cost more.

Btw, how the hell do you Mac guys live with only one button on your mouse? They need to upgrade that.

[Running an hiding from the flood or anti-Microsoft/pro-Mac propaganda that will likely fill the comments section up.]

Go through the fun process of running Windows Update and bringing your copy of Windows up to date.

Or run Autopatcher and get it to within a month or less of up-to-date, while installing useful third-party programs and add-ons and registry tweaks. I've used it many times with nary a hiccup.

Oh, and for an almost-effortless Windows XP boot CD with lots of tools, Ultimate boot CD for Windows. I like to set things up just my way, so I use BartPE, but that's more work.

They've leapt CPUs twice (old Motorola, PPC, Intel) and created an entirely new OS

Remind me, how is forking a *BSD Unix "creating an entirely new OS"?

I remember the Apple aficionados arguing that only their guys in Cupertino really knew how to make an OS, and that all the other stuff was inferior. That included the Unix variants on the market. Then, OS X came along, a BSD Unix under the hood with some tweaks and a custom UI over X Windows. It made me smile. Especially the cries of, "Where's the HQX? There's only a TGZ file here..."

Yeah, it's easy to beat up on Microsoft. They certainly deserve a dose of censure. But let's not credit things to Apple that they haven't accomplished.

Running FreeBSD since 2.1.5

The second lesson is to get a Mac. ;-)

I have worked at a couple place (print shops) where Macs are used (because they are supposedly better for graphics programs) and have personally watched my employers struggle with many problems just like you might find with Windows machines.

That's not really applicable outside print shops. Lots of computers (both PC and Mac) running in the same network with multiple outputs... there's going to be problems, especially if it was in the days before OS-X.

Mac OS certainly is BSD Unix under the hood, but that's it's strength. It really is more reliable than Windows. Installation and user interfacing of Unix/Linux is the bugaboo, and the Mac front-end takes care of all of that for you.

Really, Ed, you're the perfect candidate for the switch - once you go Mac you'll never go back.

Guys, I'm pretty much immune to arguments for either unix or Mac. I'm certainly far more computer savvy than the average person, but I'm not a software geek. And the fact is that, whether anyone likes it or not, both the hardware and software industries are built around compatibility with Microsoft. I have zero interest in shutting myself out of the vast array of software that I'm used to using, finding alternative programs to use and learning them, or in struggling to learn how to use a completely different operating system.

For those few still attempting to tackle this sort of upgrade in the future, I have a trick that used to work wonders. I worked at a call center with a Microsoft help desk (I was with Bellsouth broadband) and their approach was to first upgrade to Win2000, then go on to XP. On the few occasions I had a client who needed it, it worked every time.

Installation and user interfacing of Unix/Linux is the bugaboo, and the Mac front-end takes care of all of that for you.

Not really, unless you're one of the guys who has to use large amounts of commercial software. Commercial developers don't really give GNU/Linux the time of day. There are, however, many tools that GNU/Linux now has that makes the use FOSS much easier (autopackage, synaptic, etc. etc.), and for just about any commercial program the average computer user needs, there is a FOSS equivalent.

I use a variant of Fedora 5 GNU/Linux (BLAG), and I've had few problems with it. I've always found it much easier to use and far more reliable than Windows, but that's probably because I've been a user of GNU/Linux (and several varieties of BSD as well) for a while.

Black Cap:

"and for just about any commercial program the average computer user needs, there is a FOSS equivalent".

Mostly true. But is there a *good* FOSS equivalent? Aye, there's the rub.

I'll grant you there are fairly capable email clients and web browsers. I've found the financial software to be somewhat less than stellar, the gimp is fairly full featured but still no photoshop, and good luck getting your hardware (scanners specifically, I'm thinking of) to work without scouting out your purchase very, very carefully. And even then you're probably not going to get its entire feature set to working.

I like Linux myself. I've used ot pretty much exclusively for years. And over the past couple of weeks I've migrated back to windows. Why? I've never had Windows XP crash on me - ever. Not at work, not at home. Every little gadget I have works. The UI is much more polished and integrated.

Linux makes a great fileserver and a great firewall. I don't foresee stopping using Linux for those functions - it is true that windows is more vulnerable and a good linux machine in between my windows machine and the net is a Really Good Idea. But... for me, the argument's already been made. I'm tired of the frustration.

Ed,

Even if the worst had happened, all you have to ever do is take the hard drive itself out of the computer, and hook it into a functioning computer. Then, you can copy the entire contents of the drive onto the other PC's HD (assuming adequate free space).

Not having a functioning OS doesn't mean you need to reformat and lose your data, in other words. But, just to not put yourself in that situation again, buy one of these new handy-dandy firewire external HD deals, and they even make them with DVD burners too.

If you're running on 98, and want to upgrade to XP (because I really don't want to switch to a Mac, seriously, this is where I keep all my stuff! and emulators for some of it seem bizarre) and you use your old drive as a secondary, won't there be a difficulty if there are compatibility differences on the drives? I fortunately have 2.5 gig of my critical data on backup (had a scare some months ago), and won't remove the BU until my new drive with XP is installed but my concern is the need to install to the new drive format to get the two drives compatible.

As a long time Mac user, I basically agree with Troy. Macs are great but they are quite capable of crashing, flaking out and being prone to inscrutable upgrade/compatibility problems. My wife often calls me to fix problems with her Mac at work, and I'm usually able to fix them, although I can't always say what was wrong or how I got it straightened out.

How do you keep iMovie from putting your brand new clip through a long conversion process and messing up the aspect ratio? The answer seems to be: keep the program's trash empty. Why? I dunno. I'm just a tinkerer, not an expert. That may have been part of my problem of course. Pre-OSX I used to mess with things in the system folder all the time, with unpredictable results. And I don't generally bother with reading manuals or help files. Unless I'm desperate.

Absolutely no offense meant to any comment-making folks out there, but it's really not too helpful to recommend "get a mac" or "install linux" to someone who just wants to stick with Windows. And this is from someone who both has a mac and has used linux on multiple machines in the past, and likes both. There are reasons that people like to stick with Windows, which Ed has listed himself within these comments. It's also kind of obvious that backing up your files is a good idea, and one assumes that someone who builds his own computers knows that ;)

Anyway, as for suggestions, the knoppix suggestion Corkscrew posted awhile back is a good one. So are many of the others, of course. The ones I would tend to agree with the most are those recommending installing XP flat-out, instead of upgrading. The only times I've had a smooth upgrade process to XP has been from 2000->XP... every other attempt has been incredibly frustrating and would probably be disastrous for most people who aren't comfortable with that sort of thing slready.

Sorry for the long and probably pretentious-sounding post. I now return you to your regularly scheduled mac vs. linux vs. windows debates ;)

Just imagine what a Mac user who's downloaded Boot Camp and tries to install Windows XP has to go through http://macwindows.com/

Ed, you obviously need to write about more computer stuff, especially anything that brings out the hardcore rivial camps. This entry has more comments than any other on the front page, including the Wal-Mart one.

"Real men don't backup. Real men cry." - CompSci department adage.

- JS

Apple got rid of the one button mouse.

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/

Also macs are not more expensive. They just don't sell stripped down computers.
A similarly equipped Dell is rarely more than 10% cheaper. If not more expensive.

http://www.apple.com/getamac/windows.html

Oh and they do windows.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/system_disk_utilities/parallelsde…

And Ubuntu if ya want.
Oh. And all at the same time if necessary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE1XQyT_IbA

Mac OS certainly is BSD Unix under the hood, but that's it's strength.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Apple's shift of OS to OS X was, I thought, a great move on their part. I just objected to the claim that this was "an entirely new OS" written solely by those geniuses at Cupertino.

As I said the first time, "Running FreeBSD since 2.1.5" That's about a decade, if you don't keep FreeBSD release dates in your head.

Good look with XP, if it's the Media Center Edition. I've had nothing but headaches with it, and that's on a new, fresh-out-of-the-box PC. Go with Home or Professional if you can.

I have to maintain a PC for software development, but I'm *seriously* considering switching to a Mac for all other purposes. I'm sick of Windows conflicting with anti-virus software conflicting with backup software conflicting with applications.

Oh and this is quite nice.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html

Anything like this going to be built into Vista?

You need to get religeon. Emulate the Lord.

Jesus Saves.

Jesus was wrong.