India shuts out the world's bloggers

It just goes to show that even "democracies" are not above stomping on free speech. Thank heaven for the First Amendment.

Actually, I should have said "thank the Founders." ;-) (Old figures of speech die hard.)

This is very depressing news.
It also is inadequate to block these blogs as a means of communication. GSM is another canal for (hidden) messages. Maybe it would be better to shut down manuals on how to create bombs or how to order anthrax. That would be more understandable to me.
In fact, it's the same discussion again that we held on stopping the illegal trade on guns to several countries.
See how the money flows and infiltrate in extremist groups, in order not to be caught by surprise.

It's a coup on democratic rights to the people, and nothing less than that.

Good post!

"We would be among the first to say religious extremists are the bottom rung of the human ladder" --- I am probably a little off subject, but this statement bothered me. So, child molesters, rapists, murderers, human slave trade dealers and other such people are at least one step from the bottom rung? --- Even better, "(we are not sectarian about it; all religious extremists are in this category as far as we are concerned)." So this put the religious extremist Ghandi below child molesters and rapists. He was a religious extremist! Of course, he was an Indian --- ahhhh now it makes perfect sense....

My above comments were made to point out how the editors or bloggers who run this site, who as a group hide behind the name 'Revere', are anti-religious extremists who cannot pass up an opportunity to take a jab at religion.

So do anti-religious extremists belong on the same rung as religious extremists?

I thought the point of the article was supposed to be about censorship... and I wonder if my comments just may end up deleted... or censored?

David: LOL. Anyway, Ghandi was religious but not a religious extremist. Just the reverse. About the bottom rung. It's like the ten best pieces of music. There are a hundred things in the ten best. So there's a lot of room on the bottom rung.

We've passed up a lot of opportunities to take a jab at religion. It's just there are so many that even taking a small proportion it seems like a lot. We aren't anti-religious extremists for the same reason Ghandi wasn't a religious extremist. We are happy to have others believe whatever they want as long as they don't care what I believe. Stalin was an anti-religious extremist and most religious extremists are also anti-religious extremists (the other guy's religion). I don't know where you fall in the spectrum. I'm happy for you to be a person of deep faith if you want. Doesn't bother me as long as the fact I'm godless is OK with you. Is it?

revere: I appreciate your comments. I do not stand on the street corner shouting at people "The End is near!" or "Repent or die!"

Does the fact that you are godless bother me? Yes and no, but mostly yes.

'No' to the point that if you were someone I worked with or had a business relationship with and we both conducted ourselves with mutual respect.

'Yes' to the point that if we are debating moral, ethical or philisophical subjects. I know that if you are godless, then your ethical and moral standing will come from a different viewpoint. I did not say you had no morals or ethics, and I did not say they were wrong, just different.

'Yes' to the point that, believe it or not, it does sadden me, and most of my fellow Christians, that you are yet another soul that will spend eternity separated from God. Now, most godless people get really angry when Christians say that, but it confuses me that it angers them since they don't believe it to be true.

So, I guess it is 'OK' with me that you have chosen to reject God, because it is your God-given right to reject him, sort of a 'free will' thing. It does bother me... for your sake. But more importantly, it sorta bothers God...

David: Fair enough. Just as long as you don't force me to believe what you believe or discriminate against the godless (quite common, you know) or punish us. I'll not do it to you either. Most of my moral beliefs are probably some form of The Golden Rule.

David: Why do you presume people that are not "religious" or are even "anti-religion" are godless? Religions, IMO, are in virtually every case a control mechanism that devolved from original spiritual teachings about the relationship betweeen man and god, and was reinterpreted (misinterpreted?) by humans seeking power over others, until in many cases the revised tenets are 180 degrees from the original spiritual meaning. The number of deaths caused to innocent people in the form of "crusades", "missionary work" and so on throughout history is just appalling, and incredibly hypocritical. Religion has been used as an excuse to take over lands and peoples for economic reasons. People recruited to fight these wars or to come along as the token missionaries have died believing in these false causes, while those that got fat and rich from them were not the least god fearing. Where do you get the "truth" from, the Bible? The original Christian bible, the truest record of the teachings of Christ, was gutted by the Nicene council for political purposes, back in the 4th century AD. Since that time, there has been a history of malfeasance in the Catholic church, including a time when there were TWO Catholic Popes, each claiming the other was a pretender and antichrist, the selling of tickets to heaven by Peter's pence,leading to Protestantism leading to a whole bunch of different protestant sects all sure the others were wrong and they were right. Oh, and don't forget the lovely latter day teachings of Joseph Smith who "proved" all black people were that color to mark them as lower subhuman types in the eyes of "God"...proving so with a calendar that did some awfully strange chronological twists. Read much? Please do. It is hard to believe in religion once you actually know a bit more about it. Not so hard to believe in God, as long as He remains unlinked to manmade tenets and just to the miracle of life.

Mary: that last sentence you wrote. Am I right in the way I read that? Like: people are always deliberately or unconsciously manipulating the appearance of others, interpreting one's intentions, selecting information. It's starting when one is born and goes on until you die, and then they make a story about your life that is telling most about their own life, perceptions and intentions and their relationship they had with the died person?
So they did and still do with God, and somehow others listen to them and they get power and can arrange things they couldn't accomplish on their own? And they made very bad history from that? (in my own maybe sometimes 'double Dutch' translation) Anyway, very well how you say it in that last sentence of yours, thank you.

Tan06...send me your email again. I lost it in a crash. I just got shut out by Bill Gates. Maybe we ought to do something about that guy. Justifiable Homicide Revere.

Hi,

I don't want to defend the Indian government, but the ban on blogs happened more out of ignorance than any converted effort to ban access to blogs. Some genius in the government figured out that there were blogs/websites that were fronts for religious extremists, and decided that the best way to prevent any future troubles would be to block access. The government gave ISPs a list of such blogs, and the ISPs bent over backwards and banned any URL that had a .blogspot or .typepad in it :))

The reason the request was made in the first place was to prevent the bomb blasts being used by Hindu extremists to whip up religious sentiment. Exactly what the terrorist who plant the bombs want.

BTW, I think that all governments try to suppress information. Some do it very 'transparently' like in India & China; in some other places, they get TV channels to push their propaganda ;)

Avinash: Thanks. I was going to post an update because I have seen your additional news over at Boingboing on this. Yes, it sounds inept and stupid, but also shows how little they know or care about the issue -- like Ted Stevens in the US. Regarding all gov'ts suppressing info, there are degrees and managing info is not the same as suppressing it qualitatively. My reading of the sites that were being suppressed here, right wing US sites at that, were that they were odious but no big deal. This kind of over reaction is symptomatic of a deeper problem, not just a screw up (although it was that, too).

Mary: I do not make the presumption that you asserted above. My response was directed to 'revere' who made a statement and then asked me the direct question, "Doesn't bother me as long as the fact I'm godless is OK with you. Is it?"

As far as your comments on religion, I agree that they have quit a bit of merit. The word 'religion' means different things to different people. If you go to dictionary.com, I usually use it as definition 1a, "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe." You, in your above comments are more along the lines of 1b, "A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship." Or even definition 3, "A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader."

I do attend church, and I do believe in Jesus Christ as my saviour. I do believe that the church is more an establishment of man, and there are some things they teach and do that I believe are a load of crap. But, it is sort of like American democracy in that neither are perfect, both have lots of problems, some very serious, but for now, it is the best thing going.

So what did they shut down in India? Its not all blogs, just the Muslim ones which is being chastised all around the world. How do they determine that? I am not sure but Al Jazeera is going ape about it and they are not being too kind to India right now in their editorials. Nor are the Indonesians.

Under their constitution the government council decides which groups are seditious and/or terrorists. I am sure that Revere thinks the same about the Republicans. On the other hand we agree to disagree and move on. Over there they got a major problem if a religious sect mobilizes its members. You dont have a terrorist group then, you have an army.

This is a wide and expanding war folks that started when they blew up our embassy. ANYTHING that represents establishment of a government, religion other than Islam is on the table now for lunch. Hell, Revere might be the only one that they allow to live because he has no religion other than taking care of people. They I think could live with him. You spout off that you are a Baptist and you might be on the six o'clock news if they get the upper hand. Understand, it is to their advantage to cause turmoil anywhere they can. The Mumbai bombings were done by Lashkar Toiba that is based in Pakistan. So lets get a war going in an entire region and get them out of their hidey-holes they have been in and waste them. Its abrupt, children and non combatants are going to be killed for sure, but its going to be necessary to ensure the majority of the world is safe, not the minority.

Randy: I'll have an update tomorrow. It was all blogspot, typepad and a bunch of other blogs. It was because of some off hand comment on a couple of US right wing blogs. Really stupid. More details tomorrow.

Tan06: I think you gave my last sentence a little more depth than I had perhaps thought of, but your interpretation sounds very insightful to me.
David: You're right, Revere said he was godless you didn't. Sorry for the wrong assumption.
Randy: I don't know, i just don't get the way you think. You say regarding Pakistan and India:
"So lets get a war going in an entire region and get them out of their hidey-holes they have been in and waste them. Its abrupt, children and non combatants are going to be killed for sure, but its going to be necessary to ensure the majority of the world is safe, not the minority."

How on earth is a freaking nuclear war between India and Pakistan going to make the world safer? The Pakistani muslims are already raging about the horrific business going on between Israel, Lebanon, and Palestine, so you can be sure anything they get going against India will spread quickly to encompass the Middle East situation as well. Watching the way the tail is wagging fido, my guess is that with or without Pakistan the current crisis will probably soon include Iran and Syria, followed no doubt (to the ultimate joy of the good old PNAC hegemoniacs who are just waiting for another 9-11/Pearl Harbor excuse) by the military involvement of the US of A... So where does this all end, and how is your war going to make "the majority of the world safe?" I sure don't feel safe, and I'm sitting out here in the middle of the Pacific ocean 2500 miles from any continent. I don't call it "your war" lightly, either, Randy. Whatever you may think about your position and its justifiability, whenever I read your posts I see a man slathering for military conflict, bullets and bombs. You want it. To you it's more than just a regrettable necessity, it's a desire. In my opinion.