Freethinker Sunday Sermonette: a logical explanation for why God is screwing us all the time

Of course, this "explanation" only works for those who live through the "troubles". Are we to assume that all those who died were right with God and going to heaven?

Not entirely surprising from a God who 'so loved the world he sent his only son to die on the cross for our sins'. So add to the charge sheet he was an unfit parent who should be reported to social services.

"First, suffering and evil are a real problem in our world. Second, trying to explain it away without reference to God is the very ingredient from which atheism is made."

I take this to mean that "God made me do it," is a wholly righteous defense for causing pain to other living beings.

Cool to be cruel god tool?

And god said, "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you."

Puts a whole new complexion on the idea that we are supposed to try to be just like God, doesn't it? Then again, considering the history of the church, maybe it's not so new after all.

It has seemed most logical to me, for several decades now, that any god who was even aware of humanity would most probably have a lot more in common with H.P. Lovecraft's Great Old Ones than the kindly patriarch of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

Revere: "So the paradox is resolved. If God didn't shit on us continually, it would be natural (human nature?) never have to think of about Him. And how could we ever be happy if he didn't visit plagues, war and disease on us just so we can turn to Him and be happy, right?

Wow. Talk about megalomania. Who does He think he is?"

Answer: Mmmmmnnnnnn... Perhaps a non-musical heterosexual male Babyboomer politician!?!

"...when we are in trouble, ah, that is a different story altogether! We cry out to him, plead with him, and make all kinds of promises we will never keep as we seek to bargain with him."

Is he using the royal "we"? Personally I no more find myself pleading with a megafaery of the aether when my ass is on the line than I do thanking him when something good happens.

I am truly blessed to have not been fitted with a world view that requires me to agonize over the fact that good things happens to shitty people and conversely.

What amazes me is that someone like this can realize how petty and vain their god is and continue to worship it.

When I'm about to slam my car into a stationary object, I do not find myself saying "Oh God!" rather I find myself saying "OH SHIT!"

As one who grew up religious, reading the bible, I think the good reverend's interpretation is common, and natural. Certainly I interpreted much of the bible (and also the book of Mormon) that way. It played an important role in driving me away in religion.

Darin...Apparently they are one and the same.

Peter M...

His "son" isn't the only one for whom he should be sent to social services. As we are the "children" of god, he should probably be put in jail for being an accessory to baby rape, serial killers, pediphile priests, killers, drunk driver...jeez, the list goes on.

Every time I hear an explanation of god/religion it seems like they are plagiarizing the time when my young little sister explained to me why her imaginary friend was so wonderful because no one else could "see her."

?This God knows that our only real hope to happiness lies in him. So what does he do? He either troubles us himself or allows us to experience troubles so that we will turn to him. Cruel? It may seem so at first, but in the long run it is in this act that he most deserves our praise. Even when he knows the only reason we are turning to him is that we have run out of all other options, he still accepts us.?

If this is the case, I can determine which (IF ANY) religions are correct by looking them up in my actuarial tables.

Lets see, car accidents by religion page 72 to 110.

For me, it was the Book of Job. What. A. Wanker.

Revere, thanks for these Sunday posts.

"Meanness is not a progressive value." - revere

revere, buddy:

I hear you, and I know this is your Sunday Sermon. I can't claim any special knowledge of this world, nor of any supernatural one if it exists.

Certainly, lots of attempts to explain the Christian God lean toward legitimizing punishment and cruelty against people who question authority.

I like the company around these parts, but I don't see our existence in strictly scientific terms. Like: when you are in a group of friendly happy people, it is infectious. You can leave a party with a head buzz, even if you never used any mind-altering substance. What is that, exactly? Endorphins, for sure, but is there some synergistic effect when there are more people involved?

Even though I know it has to do with very subtle clues, and human instinct, I always felt I had a kind of ESP going on with my infant son before he could speak. He's make a sound, give me a look, a gesture, and I knew what it was that he wanted.

It's ok with me if people are able to believe that there is something beyond what we can see. I don't like it when they use that belief to condemn others, but I think they are wrong because of their behaviors and interpretations rather than their beliefs per se. I'm not ready to give up the ghost, so to speak, and I think it would be miraculous if people were willing and able to follow that good old Golden Rule of doing unto others. Your Sunday Sermon wouldn't even exist if people could just dig that one simple truth, no matter who first said it.

Aside from that, all I want to add is "mean people suck."

Here is a small snippet from Wiki...

Fabricated or Induced Illness (FII) is the formal name of a type of abuse in which a caregiver feigns or induces an illness in a person under their care, in order to attract attention, sympathy, or to fill other emotional needs. It is informally known as Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy...

Not quite sure how this is relevent, but it seems familiar for some reason.

The problem, aside from God's megalomania, with those who make such explanations, is that they gloss over the effects of the "troubles" God allows. Even when they acknowledge famine, disease and drought, they avert their eyes from the results of them. Even those most convinced of such explanations cannot say outright, "those darn dying infants, they should have prayed harder."

merciless: We read the Book of Job in high school, and it just confused me. Because it was never really resolved, as far as I could tell, why all that was happening. People came to Job and said that he was being punished, he said no; others that he was being tested, he said no; and others that God's ways were mysterious and humans could not comprehend them... and he still said no. So, why?

wenchacha: very well said and appreciated.

Before I start some of you may need to know that being an atheist is just fine with me, I still respect, in degree, your viewpoints and choices. When a line is crossed though that shifts to hatred and blame casting is when maybe I'm compelled to say something. To convince you? No.

There's no doubt in my mind that religions teach their followers in the wrong way. It was devised thousands of years ago and mankind cannot seem to extract itself from that. But to blast away at something that is not totally understood, nor will be by an atheist, is not right. As well as blaming God for all the ills and woes of this universe.
You want truth yet it eludes you, why is that? Because of the way we've been taught, period.

We are here for remedial reasons because we became far to cocky while residing in His presence.
The Almighty is not in this world because this world is a pig pen created by our own actions. It is our 'lot in life' to clean up our act, through the sick mind, and then believe there is something more than the stupidity we see in ourselves and the world.

Is there not separation in science? I don't know as I'm not a scientist but I would imagine there is. So why wouldn't there be separation in this "reality"? Without saying too much just imagine that as being true. There are separate 'planes' if you will, in the thought processes that can elevate and clean our way of thinking to the point where we may just get that glimpse of what is true about God and what is not.

To blame a God, any God, for the miseries of this planet are way off base and totally immature and irresponsible.

You created it bubba, you live in the garbage dump until you can get to the point where you've had enough and go searching for truth with a sincere heart.
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Doesn't this describe classic abuser behaviour? Dominate and torment someone until they're psychologically broken enough to grovel before the abuser, and proclaim their love and devotion?

Lea, I don't blame god for anything. It is pointless to blame something that doesn't exist, that kind of defeats the whole point of blaming someone. I don't hate believers either. I think they are delusional, but that is ok. What I object to is the misguided notion that believers hold that everyone else should believe as they do.

After reading your little rant, it became obvious that your grasp of reality is tenuous. I suggest you seek some help, try to avoid a christian therapist if you can.

You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone - Al Capone

Think what you will Paul T.

Just because you don't/won't dare to embrace, let alone understand, another's point of view doesn't suggest a need to secure help.

caia:
The literal reason is that the devil made him do it. IIRC, God and Satan have a wager that God's servant - Job - either will or won't renounce God if God shits on him. God wins the wager. And the moral of the story is to remain faithful and you will receive rewards.

,blockquote>We are here for remedial reasons because we became far to cocky while residing in His presence...
The Almighty is not in this world because this world is a pig pen created by our own actions. It is our 'lot in life' to clean up our act, through the sick mind, and then believe there is something more than the stupidity we see in ourselves and the world...
You created it bubba, you live in the garbage dump until you can get to the point where you've had enough and go searching for truth with a sincere heart.

Lea, I don't know about you, but I was born in 1973, about 4.5 billion years after the Earth got going. I've never "resided in His presence" and I didn't eff anything up down here, either. Whose sins do you think this god of yours is making me pay for?

Nuts. OK, I screwed up my html, but that's it. Fist block is a quote from Lea. Last bit is mine.

Look, I realize I run a great risk of ridicule posting what it is I believe. So I'm ready to take what you want to dish out, within reason. You can reason can't you?
Isn't it amazing how people love to jump on something or someone they don't understand.

Sins? Don't believe in "sins" per se. To answer your question mothworm, just your own.

And I don't follow religions so please don't think I'm coming from that particular point of view when you respond. I do object strongly to the way religions have been taught and know that they're a great travesty on all mankind.
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"Not only do they support my claim, but they are only a small random sample of many other verses in which God takes direct responsibility for sending the bad as well as the good." Dr. John Pearre

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a guy with a doctorate in theology doesn't have even the faintest idea what a random sample is. But it does raise questions about resolving contradiction about what the Bible actually says.

In Voltair's novel Candide he makes an interesting observation which I cannot remember exactly but it go something like this"when the King launches a new ship does he care how comfortable the rats are".

Lea, if your god is "no longer in this world" does that make him dead, impotent, tyrannical or apathetic? i'm connected 24-7, and would be extremely interested to discuss this with you. you can find me at sapiensanonym.blogspot.com.

Personally I no more find myself pleading with a megafaery of the aether when my ass is on the line than I do thanking him when something good happens.

ah, sense. Occam triumphs once again - in situations involving your life, it's of benefit not to be inventing unknown deities to plead with instead of hitting the emergency brake, so to speak...

Lepht

Lea, I'm sure you think that you've reached a profound understanding of some deeper reality hidden to us benighted folks. I suppose you're considering most of those here closed-minded, unimaginative and subject to materialism-induced tunnel vision. Certainly, when you claim that Paul T. does not "dare to embrace" your notions, you seem to think that you're in some courageous higher ground. I suppose you reckon that you've a moral higher ground when you say that you "respect, in degree" others' "viewpoints and choices" and that you imagine that others are not giving you so much respect.
Nonetheless, you have made claims (rather confused claims, but claims nonetheless) not only that some sort of God exists but that you, in fact, know the mind of God and know the ever-elusive Meaning of Life. In making these claims, you're basically saying that the rest of us are wrong, so it's rather disingenuous if you think it is unfair for others to be critical. Furthermore, your claims are sufficiently exceptional that, in the absence of some truly exceptional evidence, I'm inclined to assume that you've simply jumped to those conclusions.

And I don't follow religions so please don't think I'm coming from that particular point of view when you respond.

That sounds like typical new-agey "I'm not religious" religious evasion. You've certainly expressed some definite religious sentiment; probably not corresponding to the liturgy of some institutional faith, but nonetheless your claims are religious. Honestly, if statements about some god and the nature of human existence in terms of that god aren't religious, I can't see what else would be.

Is there not separation in science?

This doesn't make any sense to me. I have no idea what you mean by "separation". If you've thought it through and know what you mean, please explain.

So why wouldn't there be separation in this "reality"? Without saying too much just imagine that as being true.

No, see, that's not the way convincing people works. I don't come up to you and say "There's an invisible dragon in my garage!" (as mentioned in Sagan's 'The Demon-Haunted World') and then expect you to believe me without further elaboration. An argument started with "Assume I'm right" doesn't really work, as any conclusion can be reached by assuming it at the start.
Imaginary "other planes" where imaginary things happen to other imaginary things can be fun to ponder, but unless we observe real consequences of these goings-on we have two reasons not to take them seriously. First, why should I take any assertion for granted without something to support it? Scientists say interesting things about all manner of invisible radiation, yes, but we have reasons to believe, including actual devices that work using that radiation. Second, and more importantly, unless we can point to actual, observable consequences of these "other planes", how could you possibly have figured out what's going on there in the first place?
Merely feeling that certain beliefs are right and thinking that you're penetrating to the heart of the matter doesn't guarantee that you are right. There are fervent believers in all manner of nonexistent things. Nobody's immune to error, as such cases as the supposed discovery of N-rays remind us.

wrg,

I consider myself a marginal Episcopalian and think it is quite possible for intelligent people to believe things they can't prove. I'm a theologian, after all. That doesn't mean that there isn't a surprising amount of crap out there, which proves nothing more than the fact that people can be incredibly gullible, as P.T. Barnum noticed.

I'm less interested in what people claim than I am in how they live. By that standard, the reveres are saints.

natural cynic: but wouldn't that be the "God is testing you" explanation, which Job rejected?

I never realized "the Devil made me do it," could be said by God... Kinda undermines the omnipotence thing, if he couldn't have chosen not to do it.

Lepht: Thank you for the invite, have saved your site.

wrg: Oh no, I am probably the lowest of the low.

The latest contribution from Dr. John Pearrell, pastor of Gateway Community Church in Covington, Georgia is both refreshing in its candor and unintentionally hilarious

Speaking of unintentional hilarity, whoever it is who admins the Web site for the Rockdale Citizen is apparently in the habit of re-using URLs.

When, as of Tuesday morning PST, I followed the link posted by Revere, what I was greeted with was an article titled "Heirloom rice offers flavorful way to get grains".

That's it! The secret revealed at last! Millennia of theological debate finally settled!

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