Suppose someone owned and managed business premises which had recently experienced a dangerous incident. They were also carrying out work there that was generally acknowledged by the industry to be risky. But when a government official came around they misrepresented the earlier incident and publicly denied they were engaging in any risky practices. The government official wasn't too inquisitive and told them it was OK by him to use the risky technique. So they continued to do so and six of their workers died as a result along with three rescue workers. What would you say about such a business person? That perhaps someone should check to see if he was criminally liable? That's what Congressman George Miller, Chair of the House Education and Labor Committee, thinks:
A criminal investigation should be opened into whether the operators of Utah's Crandall Canyon mine purposely misled safety officials about mine conditions before the 2007 deadly collapse, the chairman of a House investigation committee said Thursday.Rep. George Miller, leader of the House Education and Labor Committee, released a report on the panel's investigation and said he has asked the Justice Department to look into whether the mine's manager and others had given all the facts to the federal Mine Safety and Health Administration about a previous incident at the coal mine.
He also criticized the agency for approving a risky work plan at the mine before the August 2007 disaster that left nine dead.
"The findings of this investigation demonstrate that the Crandall Mine tragedy might have been avoided at several key moments," said Miller, D-California. "They suggest that the mine owner did not act in the interest or safety of its employees, and that the Mine Safety and Health Administration failed these miners and their families."
Miller said mine executives -- who invoked the Fifth Amendment to refuse interviews with committee staff -- may have "deliberately and significantly downplayed" the extent of a previous cave-in when seeking MSHA's approval for their plans.
"It's a question of whether they made false statements and whether or not they engaged in a conspiracy to promote those false statements and the fact that everybody involved in that process has taken the Fifth gives us cause for concern," he said. (CNN)
The Bush administration's Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) has become a notorious water carrier for mining interests. They might as well be pall bearers for US miners. MSHA has yet to release its own report of the tragedy and is urging restraint until that report is issued. But MSHA's credibility is so damaged it is hard to see how its findings will be believable. It's not as if we don't know quite a bit already, however. Last month the Department of Labor's Inspector General (IG) issued its own damning report on the incident, entitled "MSHA Could Not Show it Made the Right Decision in Approving the Roof Control Plan at Crandall Canyon Mine." (see Celeste Monforton's account here and links to many of her posts on the disaster here).
The Bush administration will leave quite a legacy, measured in dead workers, dead soldiers, dead civilians. We will all be much safer when the administration itself is a dead issue -- 252 days and counting.
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Bush's depraved followers are intentionally destroying the federal government. The Bush regime has gotten rid of every single competent expert in wide swaths of the executive branch, and replaced them with obedient, but completely incompetent, partisan hacks who dont know jack shit about anything to do with whatever theyre supposed to administer.
All the experts who knew how to get shit done, to obey the Constitution, Federal laws, and Federal regulations while doing things like protecting us from crime, dangerous food, dangerous products, keeping us from being blown to smithereens by terrorists, keeping us healthy, safe, and prosperous, have been eliminated. They have been replaced by people who cant even tie their own shoes, but who have drank the government cant do shit right-wing depraved Kool-Aid, and are deadset on proving it!
http://physioprof.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/more-important-shit-the-bush…
Revere, the mining plan was under review at the time of the collapse by MSHA. Retreat mining is the most dangerous type that there is and there is always a prescribed risk when doing something like this. If you are lucky nothing happens, if it does you are screwed because you are setting a collapse up to happen. You deliberately try to cause a cave in, after you are out of course. There is a question whether there was a quake in the mine first, or one subsequent to the collapse. Everyone wants things to be totally safe, but they also want their lights on too. I personally like to give the people the right of the Constitution and that is that they are innocent until proven guilty. That includes taking the fifth.
The owners of the mine hired a consulting firm and they too were examining the plan with MSHA when the collapse happened. Hmmm... might it not have been better to allow it to be strip mined and then filled in? Another environmentalist thing. Cant blow up mountains for coal any more as a rule so lets do something REALLY dangerous instead.
Were the mine operators negligent? I dont know and the MSHA hasnt released their report either. Its just like a plane crash, you have a prima facie case that something wasnt right. So automatically it has to be operator error and the governments fault. Not always true, but dead men tell no tales. The miners who tried to rescue them were killed by yet another cave in so was this whole hill unstable? No way of knowing because you would have to take it apart piece by piece to do it. But all of those miners led by Teddy Kennedy produced a Senate report making the assertion that something was illegally done. Sorry, but not so fast. If they did, they did and will pay the price for it. This is electioneering at best by Teddy... Waxman must have been busy.
Its mining and its dangerous work. Living in Tennessee I have lots of contacts into the mining business for parts and hard equipment. There are if you didnt know more than 3 unplanned cave ins a day on average in the US, and about 35 worldwide. Are we being unsafe in mining? Hey, the Chinese were doing the same thing and killed several hundred. Teddy ought to be on that one. As for the collapse itself that would really be for the miners to decide along with the Administration. One missed crack, finding a dike inside a wall filled with water in the hundreds of thousands of gallons or as you assert this HAS to be GWB again.It cant possibly be an accident without human or administration cause. Is there nothing that he and the administration are not responsible for Revere?
I mean really. If something happens in his administration of any kind then it has to be his fault and the people in charge. In fact those people will still be there and only the chairs will be changed out for the leadership after the election... You know like the Clinton appointee who spent 500,000 redoing her office in the post office here. She was shown the door and the office stayed.
Time to do some soul searching Revere. Its okay to hate the guy and I do understand your frustration, but to me its the same ole same ole. Different suits and styles but still the same suits. Bushies/Clintonites and who is next? If Obama makes it I want you to hammer on him as hard as you have Bush.
More on the possibility of a quake near or in the mine before the actual event.
http://www.seis.utah.edu/MONRESEARCH/CM/crandall_sum.htm
There are many that are now beginning to doubt the USGS assessment of the "long duration" quake theory. There were several 1.+'s in the immediate area several days before and might have weakened the structure that they planned.
There were 22 measurable events within a two mile radius and several that were as big as the quake itself afterwards. So were the structures unsafe or was it a stacked deck to begin with? One of the escaped miners said there was a rise in the floor of two feet shortly before the cave in happened. So even if it wasnt a quake caused event, the floor bulged. But... its GWB's fault without a doubt. Micromanaged a quake...
Oh, understand that I am not giving anyone an out but you have hammered GWB since day one as the cause of all evil on the planet, the reason for 9/11 and subsequent actions that were taken. Some of that foot gets into the shoe, but I cannot understand how you can keep saying things like this and expect no one to step up and say that its preposterous. The sun doesnt rise every morning and have him get up and say who am I going to fuck over today? Its simply not right and it borders on an obsession. What are you going to do if things DONT change in the next election? I can only hazard a guess. You'll run right down to the big dig and start hammering on Teddy for the biggest project in US history right?
MRK, one of the points that seems to emanate from post is that mining is a very dangerous industry. I think that is a statement that most people could easily agree with. However, some people go one step further and imply that since mining is a dangerous industry these fatalities are inevitable. That I do not agree with.
No fatality is ever inevitable or a freak accident or "just one of those things." There is always a root cause. Whether that cause will lie with the mine operator, or the Bush administration's policies, or the fact that they probably should have been engaging in retreat mining in the first place, I don't know. But there is certainly a dangerous precedent set by accepting these incidents as part and parcel of the job.
There are always other options. Technological advances have helped immensely in making "inherently dangerous" occupations safer by leaps and bounds. Pressure to block or resistance to implement these safety advances is in and of itself a root cause of many of these accidents (such as the mining industry's resistance to implement the precautionary measures prescribed by the MINER act).
Another option - stop (or severely reduce) coal mining. It's certainly not the only way to "keep the lights on." Instead of subsidizing coal production, why don't we put more money to safer and environmentally clean alternatives, such as wind or solar power?
(By the way, MRK, I was particularly confused by your comments that seemed to blame the environmentalists for the mining industry's decision to engage in retreat mining... Hmmm... might it not have been better to allow it to be strip mined and then filled in? Another environmentalist thing. Cant blow up mountains for coal any more as a rule so lets do something REALLY dangerous instead. Obviously you have a very rudimentary understanding on the environmentalists' position on the matter, or are simply picking and choosing your way to present facts to make your point. tsk tsk)
I completely understand your need to defend against what appears to be a barrage of scathing criticisms of the Bush administration. We do tend to set the "Blame Bush" button on auto-pilot. But, at the same time, you must understand the growing resentment and frustration that comes from seeing numerous policies implemented in subtle and not-so-subtle ways that deteriorate occupational safety and health as we know it. And assuming that the next election is just going to bring the same old "new face, same policies," is the type of apathetic thinking that got us into this jam in the first place. We can do better!
This is what happens when I click "post" without reading over what I wrote...
That sentence in the second paragraph is supposed to read "the fact that they probably should not have been engaging in retreat mining in the first place,"
Tasha while your points are taken about coal mining, there arent enough sides of hills or windy areas in the US to do what you suggest.
In fact, the inspector who was assigned to this mine had been in the position he was in for some 15 yrs, so he was no neophyte. They acknowledged that there was a problem with continuing in one shaft but not another. The clearance was given. I dont have a rudimentary understanding on the environmentalists position, only that we have now regulated ourselves into the position of importation of coal along with oil and everything else. In my opinion I think that environmentalists have gone too far here and not far enough elsewhere. It is now costing jobs and this one could have been done much better and more safely by leveling the mountain. Both are great polluters but we cant build nukes so lets just go pollute the landscape with solar panels that are inherently high reflectors and could have a major impact on the climate too. Wind power? Mr. Theodore Kennedy, the environmentalists dream prevented wind farms out on the water from Hyannisport... Mmm sounds like its a NIMBY to me.
Mark my words Tasha there will come a day and its coming sooner than later that the people are going to have enough with PC. That day will sweep this kind of drivel aside and the old, "Well they just dont get it." Its just a matter of time and economics. Oh, we get it alright. We are getting beaten up because our own national interests are being whacked away by our own people and THAT is going to end pretty soon. Let oil hit 200 a barrel and they will bury you in coal dust and the resultant pollution.
Oh and Tasha, please name ONE law that has been circumvented here. Does a 75 page Democrat Senate report make them right? Nope. In fact there is a lot of conjecture still going on and if there is a trial there is going to be a lot of finger pointing and waving and the prosecution is going to have a hard time proving its case that they knew something was wrong. They are going to have to account for that floor bulge for starts and that is part and parcel to the collapse as the walls pushed inward at the floor. I prefer to wait myself to hear from the Bureau of Mines about this and their official report rather than T. Kennedy.
Enjoy your utility bill.
Needless to say there's tension building among the ranks.
CRANDALL CANYON MINE - Active Operation, Permit ACT/015/032
The Crandall Canyon Mine is located in Huntington Canyon on the eastern edge of the Wasatch Plateau Coal Field approximately 16 miles west of Huntington, Utah in Emery County. The permit area encompasses over 5,000 acres with a combination of fee land, and federal and state leases. The mine is entirely within the Manti-LaSal National Forest, and conducts its surface operations on 10 acres of disturbed land.
Historically mining was conducted in the area from November of 1939 to September of 1955, using the room and pillar method. Mining was resumed in 1983 by Genwal Coal Company with production ranging from 100,000 to 230,000 tons per year. In 1989, the mine was purchased by NEICO, and in 1990, IPA purchased a 50% interest. A continuous haulage system was incorporated into the room and pillar mining method in 1991, allowing an increase in production ranging from 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 tons per year. In March 1995, the mine was transferred to Genwal Resources, Inc. which is owned by IPA and Andalex Resources, Inc. A longwall was installed midyear of 1995 and production was just over 2,000,000 tons. A longwall was purchased in 1997 to increase production from 2,500,000 tons to 3,500,000 tons per year. A new loadout facility was also built in 1997 to facilitate the production increase.
The acquisition of additional federal leases in the future will extend the life of the mine, and new portals on the south side of the canyon will be constructed to facilitate access.
_______________________________________________________
Some local news comments:
Alan Mortensen, an attorney representing several of the miners' families, said, "They knew exactly what would happen with this type of plan, and yet they moved forward, putting profits in front of the lives of these families."
"The employers and the operators have got to understand that they're dealing with people's lives," said Sonny Olsen, another attorney representing some of miners' families.
___________________________________________________________
Governor signs mine safety bill on same day families of miners file lawsuit
April 2nd, 2008
A bill that was passed by the Legislature in an attempt to make coal mining safer is now law. Gov. Jon Huntsman signed the bill today in Utah's coal country
The new Coal Mine Safety Act is the result of the state's mine safety commission, which was established after the Crandall Canyon mine tragedy to try and improve safety in Utah mines.
"I'm here to tell you that mining is here to stay. It is a part of who we are, it is a part of how we fuel our economy, and our only hope is that through legislation like this, that we can focus even more on safety," Huntsman said.
After sifting through the filth and stench of PhysioProf's comments and link, all I can ascertain is that PhysioProf wants the federal government to:
Protect him from crime,
protect him from dangerous food,
protect him from dangerous products,
protect him from terrorists,
protect his health,
protect his safety,
and protect his prosperity.
My advise to PhysioProf is grow some gonads boy and at least make an attempt at doing some of these things for yourself and quit acting (and writing)like a spoiled snot-nosed pampered brat having a hissy fit. It's embarrassing.
Based on this mining safety chart, aside from the 2 big accidents the last couple of years, it seems not that bad.
http://www.nma.org/pdf/s_coal_injury_fatality_rates.pdf
Trends have been down. But who knows if the data is reliable.
Government needs to protect all it's citizens equally, the corporate citizen as well as the individual. If they are unwilling or unable to do so, let them be gone. I see no evidence they are.
I agree with MRK here. There is no difference between Republicans and Democrats in substance, just style. Whats happening today is not a GWB issue. GWB is simply a puppet of the elite.
Republicans today molest you and make you feel soiled before hammering it home, Democrats call it foreplay and tell you it will feel good before they do the same, perhaps with a lubricant. I prefer the Clinton style of buggery, but would rather a Democracy where we all get off, to the Fascist rape (soft or hard) of the working class that is going on.
This is why the next President will be a Democrat. Those on the right are waking up and starting to focus on government being the problem, even a Republican government. By having a Democrat as President, they will focus on their enemy, the Democrat, and not the fact that the government itself is fascist, no matter which party is in power. The liberals on the left have proven themselves to be spineless wimps. Before GWB I considered myself a Republican, now I know better and am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. The leaders of both are unamerican and traitors to the constitution, and would be hung from the lamp-poles if people were able to see through the MSM propaganda and figure out what they have done.
If the last 8 years had been under a Clinton Presidency, the right would have been shooting up DC and Wall Street, at the liberals. So they will feed them Obama or Hillary, and when things continue downhill, the right will revolt, and martial law can be imposed. That I believe is the elites plan. I think they prefer Obama, as they would love to re-establish the racial strife of the 60's and early 70's. They might even empty out some of the prisons to help fuel the fire, after all we do have the largest prison population in the world, and they get free health care, thats expensive.
pauls lane,
If PhysioProf is a "spoiled snot-nosed pampered brat having a hissy fit", you sound like a turdbrained, dimwitted, bastard-son-of-redneck-preacher, sonofabitch fuckwit. You can act macho and live in a fucking jungle or desert all you want, you stupid hick. Just shut up and let the rest of civilization advance in peace.
Retard.
Ah, FO glad you responded because you, yes you FO, are a fine example of this peaceful advancing civilization that you not-so-eloquently wrote about. I cannot begin to tell you how thrilled I am to be lectured and shown the error of my ways by the likes of you. Yes FO, you have shown me that you and the rest of your advancing civilization sound, act, and probably look like nerdy, geeky, middle-schoolers who discover they can string together several off color words and believe they sound adult, while they giggle about it in the boys room.
FO and pauls lane;
You both are demeaning this blog. I, for one, don't come here to read such drivel as you have just engaged in. Knock it off.
You both owe Revere an apology for your online behaviour, IMO.
RobT - sorry if I offended you, but I am NOT demeaning this blog. Revere introduces the politics, not I. My comment to PhysioProf was from the heart. I will admit that FO seems to have a problem expressing himself in suitable language and needs to serioulsy work on that. Also RobT I should point out, when you come to a post entitled Bush's legacy, what exactly do you expect?
Let's make a deal. You stop using roads built and owned by governments, stop using currencies supported by goverments, stop flying on planes that are air-controlled by governments, stop calling the police if someone breaks into your house, stop calling the fire department if your house catches on fire, stop using cheap gasoline and other petroleum products whose prices are heavily subsidized by governments. You stop doing those things, and I'll "grow some gonads".
Dumbfuck libertarian imbeciles crack me the fuck up!
pft, first of all, I don't understand anyone who can look at a graph depicting work-related deaths and, when the number isn't zero, can comment that things appear to be "not that bad." But I know what you meant, so I'll move on.
You asked whether the data is reliable. Yes and no, depending on what you're looking for. According to the footnote, the data comes from MSHA records, meaning it is a list of all mining fatalities that have been investigated by the Mining Safety and Health Administration. For those who don't know, MSHA is the mining equivalent of OSHA, and is charged with (among other things) investigating fatalities that occur on mine sites - Note that I said "on mine sites" not "in the mining industry." Fatalities in the mining industry that occur off mine property but are work-related would still fall under OSHA jurisidiction. For more on this discussion see: http://thepumphandle.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/time-for-msha-to-redefine…
The fatality statistics put out by MSHA (or any regulatory agency for that matter) are governed by policies that determine what is and isn't covered by the agency. It is as much governed by work processes as it is by actual deaths. For this reason, it should not be counted as a true epidemiological picture of fatalities in the mining industry. That statistic should instead come from the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries (CFOI). http://www.bls.gov/iif/
CFOI covers all work-related fatalities in the nation, regardless of regulatory or compensatory coverage. It includes all industries and occupations, and even some deaths that might not be expected to be included, such as suicides that occur at work, volunteers and inmates on work crews. As such, it is the most comprehensive count of occupational fatalities to date.
Tasha - What I don't understand is your insistence that fatalities from any occupation can be avoided. Stopping or severely reducing coal mining operations is not going to happen. I can think of a dozen or so 'dangerous' occupations where people will be hurt or killed. Police, firefighters, pilots and crew (and passengers), even farming to just name a few. Technological advances have reduced fatalities, but our technology is not error proof. People in these occupations know and accept the risks. That being said, if these mine operators knowingly deceived they should be punished. If the government failed to do their job because of negligence they should be punished.
Gee I just noticed PhysioProf has offered me a 'deal'. No thank you PhysioProf. You are supposing I actually care whether or not you ever become a man. I don't.
Pauls, call me an eternal optimist. But that aside, I believe that "accepting the risks" can be the equivalent of giving up on pursuing a way to reduce the risks even further. And that's just stupid.
If I wanted brainless fuckwit blather, I'd read MSN.Com. I make 2 suggestions:1. If you don't have something useful to contribute, keep still and read.2. Don't feed the trolls. Jeez, Grow up, people!
How about some suggestions in addition to MoM:
1. No flame wars. Opinions are valued, mud slinging among commentators is not. Disagreements can be constructive if you add some meaningful input or information to your position.
2. Do no promote your religion here. This isnt your private theological soapbox.
3. Off-topic commentary should have have some relevance to the main post. Nothing is more discouraging then to have the main post simply ignored.
#3 would be the hardest though, we all get off topic!
DITTO