The Fourth Amendment: gone but not forgotten

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! It would seem that the Democratically controlled Congress got a few people P.O.'d pretty bad. It would also seem that the same group who gave you spying on Americans from foreign soil are now allowed to do it on US soil. Hmmmmmmmmm.......It would seem that even the Democrats get it that we are under a full blown attack by people who dont wear uniforms even though they do have the right to and above all to attack our soldiers rather than our civilians.

Hmmmmmmm............It would seem that the leftist/socialist government in the UK just passed an almost exactly same law. Germany too........ I wonder why everyone is in such an uproar? We know that terrorists play by the rules, right? Has to be so because in their little world of attacking school buses, buildings and shopping malls and crowded bazaars the get to make those rules.

What are we going to do about the 4th Amendment? Not a thing unless government uses it to become onerous and invasive. Something that I can depend on a Democrat to do.... Who said LBJ was dead?

As for the terrorists.....

I guess we can just go and negotiate with them..........

mmmm, I dont care about my rights until I am put in a concentration camp by the government, then I will think the 4th amendment is important.

No, the terrorists are a small bunch of insanely fanatical people that can be stopped with good police work, the kind that follows the constitution.

The gutting of the constitution, not just the 4th amendment but the 1st as well (hello state sponsored religion) is done to control the people. Just because the current Democratic party is in bed with W on the controlling issue doesn't make it right. It makes them both wrong.

IRobot..... Your own statement makes you wrong...

The Cole, African Embassies, Madrid, WTC's..... This is not a cop on the beat or even a detective type of thing. Interdiction at the source and that might someday come down to the inclusion of airstrikes inside the US without a trial to stop them.

Canada has a particularly bad problem. Texas too. Couple of thousand people now with middle eastern names changed them to hispanic ones... And that would be because the names of Johnson/Smith/Jones and Williams were all taken up?

It also makes you wrong because its the law. If you can change the law to what you want, then you'll be right then but not before.

"It also makes you wrong because its the law. If you can change the law to what you want, then you'll be right then but not before."

I hate the smell of mindless authoritarianism in the evening.

I really do.

If anti-american terrorism was real, they would have targeted a McDonalds or a coca-cola plant by now.

Canada has a particularly bad problem.

Not just ignorant but stupid - great combination, no wonder you Americans have such a problem down there.

I know, I know, don't feed the trolls.

Doug your Canucks were rounded up in a truck driver sting back in November... All illegals, nearly all were illegals for Canada too. Authoritarianism...bullshit. You guys simply dont believe that the US has been hit time and again. I really groove on this crap about its a law enforcement problem. Be sure to give them a writ when they go after those Canadian targets and above all afford them the right to an attorney.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,463428,00.html

http://amusinghistorymusings.blogspot.com/2008/07/canadian-al-qaeda-chi…

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2008/01/18/cana…

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/01/24/khadr040124.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3534195.stm

Uninformed and ignorant in the same sentence Doug... You surely must have had to get someone to spell them for you. Get off of it.

You guys are sending truck drivers down here with loads of Canuck goods bound for Mexico. Even that asshole Chuck Shumer said that Canada is "the terrorists playground" and your own liberal government hasnt done jack shit about it. Remember, the President of US may direct on his own initiative combat military operations against any person or country if in his sole opinion they represent a threat to the US. Canada in particular has a MAJOR problem and lax travel and immigration laws. Pretty dumb to say what you did when the facts are borne out by something else.

And thats not authoritiarian...Its Time Magazine.

1) In the words of Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would trade liberty for security deserve..."

a) low interest rates.
b) power-operated windows and an available moon-roof.
c) neither.
d) jobs in the Bush Administration.

2) Patrick Henry was reported to have said, "Give me ____, or give me ____!"

a) easy terms, flexible payment options
b) cheap gasoline, low air fares
c) Coke, Pepsi
d) liberty, death

C'mon Randy, I know you're patriotic, so you should know these.

For more than half a century, European countries have fought terrorists of various stripes with police work, mostly within constitutional law, and rather successfully. They've lurched a bit toward totalitarian systems, but not nearly as much as "the land of the free". Maybe their memories of 1933-1945 were still too fresh.

If I had a Middle Eastern name I'd think about changing it, too, in this country. If we can't trust the government to respect our privacy, give us due process under the law, or consider us innocent until proven guilty of a crime, then we have to protect ourselves from an irrational and tyrannical government. Seems to me that changing one's name to Jones or Gonzales is a reasonable defense against a racist society and an untrustworthy government. Isn't that obvious?

Sleeve, thats what this has done. Eased it a bit more towards you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. It wont be enough unless it interdicts the combatants at the source. This goes to Gitmo, CIA, FBI and everything else. Might not have been necessary if we hadnt sat on our asses while we got hit again and again. I mean really if you think about it they tried for the WTC on Clintons watch and then he let the head Frito go when he was offered up. Typical.

So here we are, a mere 40 years after the first attacks and we still will not declare a war. Shit, it would have ended that UN Security Council debate thing and right or wrong we would have been into Iraq. We were just slightly less than right but much more closer to right than wrong. Everyone knows that if Saddam had been left to his devices, he would have built or used one. So thats a 50/50 to me. Iran, well now theres a new chapter but the same book. The UN will likely green light a hit on them to prevent any further shenaniugans and that includes by the Rus.

Cant have people popping nukes to get the attention of other countries. So messy. But, are our rights limited by the above? Certainly, but can you feel it? Or are a select group of people feeling it? The latter of course. Good, I want them to know we are and as long as the LAW is followed then as I said the above points are moot.

Hey "dubiquiabs":

Your assessment that the Europeans have fought terrorism for over fifty years using only law enforcement is truely very flawed. They have only followed up on terrorist attacks with law enforcement investigations for that amount of time, which has netted them some arrests, but has not pre-empted terrorist attacks in all but a handful of cases. Those handful of cases of pre-empted attacks can almost all be attributed to either U.S. inteligence or Israeli inteligence being provided ahead of time to these same governments.

So your argument that law enforcement is effective against terrorism is baseless. Inteligence and the brute force of military units trained in anti-terrorism tactics is what is effective against terrorism. Police units are not trained to fight terrorists and get their butts kicked when they go up against terrorists. Just ask any beat cop about this. They do not want to go up against terrorists. SWAT units do not train to fight terrorists and will only go up against them as a stopping, contain, and hold unit until an anti-terror military unit arrives. Only the FBI has a trained anti-terror unit of all the law enforcement units in the country and it is a small unit.

bigdudeisme you are 100% correct...dubiquiabs comment is just another ridiculous spin on how europeans do everything better than americans and israelies because they (europeans) are so much more enlightened...pre-emptive strikes against suspected terrorists or sponsors of terrorists is wrong! but going after them with old fashioned police work after the carnage, body parts, blood and guts are cleaned up is the correct method of fighting terrorists. Police and their various support organizations are very good at figuring out how you died, where you died, how long you've been dead, what weapon killed you, and even identifying who you are after being blown to bits, they are pretty good at figuring out who killed you too...but you know what? You're still dead! This is how dubiquiabs believes the fight against terrorists should be carried out - the enlighten european method.

By the way revere I haven't seen any posts on the celebration of life and re-birth of the 2nd Amendment. It was touch and go (5-4) but the 2nd Amendment is alive. We should all be celebrating.

pauls: LOL. Yes, we are number one everything. Europeans couldn't possibly do anything better than the place where pauls has his allegiance. Nobody thinks that terrorism is a police matter -- except the Pentagon's number one think tank, The Rand Corporation. LOL again. Even better, let's send in the military against the mafia. Police still haven't wiped them out. The Global War on Organized Crime (GWOOC). Just the bill for the military. Tinfoil hats off to you two! LMAO.

By the way revere I haven't seen any posts on the celebration of life and re-birth of the 2nd Amendment. It was touch and go (5-4) but the 2nd Amendment is alive. We should all be celebrating.

And you won't. I guess you prefer the 2nd Amendment to the 4th. I think the 2nd Amendment means something different than you do and the 5 justices who (this time) interpreted it wrongly. That's the way the system works, so I have to go along with it, whatever the consequences.

I prefer all the amendments...I don't pick and choose like you..

pauls: Outside of the fact that what you say can't be literally true, you obviously understand (or maybe you don't) that not everyone agrees on what the amendments mean. I think the Court majority's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment is in error, but it is currently the law and that's that. How do you feel about FISA and the 4th amendment? Or do you choose not to prefer it? You are a card (the Joker would be my guess). And the Great Writ? You think the Bush administration was wrong about it?

Said it before Revere, the Courts have just about always come down on the side of the Administration, no matter who was in the White House.

Roosevelt, Nixon, Bush1, Bush2. All wartime Presidents get the benefit of the doubt. Congress gave it to him too.

I think about this often and the abuses of the government against the people that push this always back to the center. Its the center that gets us into trouble though. Go too far right and you have the SS, go too far left and you have animal rights and environmentalists blowing up car dealerships and then only getting five years. 3 with good behavior. Me, terrorist acts should be dealt with by stomping them into a bloody pulp to get whatever information they have and then giving them a shot to the head. But they got rights. You dont if you are affected by what they did.

Funny thing the law. Its for those people who will comply and obey it. If you find it in yourself to go out and not only violate it, but more so disregard it that someone will have to deal with you accordingly. I do hope it doesnt get to that either. But it might.

All terrorists hide behind the law and unfortunately that gets people killed. Cant touch them as long as they are law abiding then suddenly like a nutcase that snaps, they take out a building or attack a ship. Not much difference between their nutcase religious neocons than ours. At the far end of either right or left you have anarchy and that is what you try to prevent by changing the laws. When they start eavesdropping on girls who are cheating on exams and/or talking about "Man, I would like to kill that teacher," then suddenly it also gets into the realm of what you are talking about and thats the limitation of your rights.

Those amendments ARE the Bill of Rights and they assure you that you can at least be sure that as the Supremes said, "The State should always be flexible to an evolving situation. The Administrations ability to deal with any situation should not be so constrained as to prevent action from being taken."

Do you take that threat seriously? What if it had been two Arab descent women? Or men? In todays environment you have already adapted to the situation. They would show up, take them into custody and play the tape. Then they would get their houses and persons searched because, in todays environment they have probable cause. Sept 10th, 2001 they didnt.

The Dem Congress that we have now also said one thing and did another in their passing of the new FISA laws. They railed against the President and bitched and moaned and then ended up giving him exactly what he wanted. It doesnt matter what any one of us think in this except if those Bill of Rights are impinged upon. Then its a civil matter because these people, (Dems in majority) gave us those rights by their predecessors and then modified it under FISA... its the law.

But here is my most important statement on it Revere. If that Bill of Rights allows for terrorists to even try to kill Americans, then it should be suspended completely and above all I know what that means. It should have a timetable and then the problem people rounded up. Yes and that does mean interred. You cannot have rights if certain individuals fail to move within the system. Terrorism is not something that a police force can handle if its widespread even in the confines of its borders. If it comes from outside of the state then it has to be dealt with. It might lead to the shoot down of our own airliners as we were moving to do on Sept 11th. It means we might splash one into the Potomac in sight of the Jefferson, Washington, and Lincoln monuments and memorials. It would be in sight of the Vietnam Wall and the Marine monuments. So if we are able to keep them out of the country then its a military matter. Inside then our ability drops geometrically to the distance away we are from them. That starts with surveillance and trip wires. You know, they could just pack their asses up and carry themselves back to the Motherland if they feel so insecure under our rights system. I think those places that they came from dont give a rats butt about their rights.

Congress hasn't placed a time limit on the Petition for a Writ of Habeas Corpus, they amended the second clause of Title 28 USC § 2255. That clause did state that a 2255 motion may be made at any time. Now the clause sets a time limit of one year to file the 2255 motion, relying on the latest of four possible times.

It didnt take it away Revere. Its just clarifying it. I dont feel insecure with that at all.

We can sit with our heads in the sand and say that its a law enforcement issue too. Okay so who do we see about prosecuting in Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Dubai, Oman, Syria, Lebanon. Extradition? Okay, so did we get them extradited in Pakistan or did they end up down the squirrel hole so they could be questioned with impugnity? The latter of course. Because here, they got rights. There, they have only the rights that someone elses country says they do.

As long as they were content to blow themselves up we didnt bother too terribly much. But when they hit the US and knocked down the tower it cost us 21 billion.

http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/aug02/homeland.asp .
http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31617.pdf

It cost about the same as Hurricane Andrew. The on going costs since 02 has pushed on 1 trillion dollars in economic outlays and loss of jobs. Not to mention they want to do us again and again. Two or three 9/11's and we would be done. 200 guys on a mission and able to get access to key infrastructure could bring this country to a halt. You often say that its not possible. I totally disagree with that.

I for one dont want some local police force handling that kind of issue and the FBI is powerless to act in other nations. This goes back to declarations of war. We are trying to allow them (Pakistan) to collect Bin Laden and others in their own borders. Who are they using? The military. Why? Because the police are hopelessly outgunned. So the use of the military is implicit in these situations. It couldnt be any other way.

Do I like the powers that have been extended to government? No. They should have sunset dates and reviews. Didnt get that in this one and the lone Republican to ask for it was batted down like a fly by the Dems. It I guess gave them ability to say that they did something in the last two years.

Its about the only thing they have done other than scream about the environment.

I wonder whats in store for the next President other than to tax the crap out of us for another boondoggle like the Energy Dept.

Randy: Not at all true of Bush. They have ruled against him 3 times on habeas. So you make the point I always make: He is an outlier among all Presidents. What a guy!

revere you do realize your comparison between terrorists and the mafia is just plain stupid (I don't know why I expected anything else) organized crime might kill each other but I haven't yet heard of them crashing planes into buildings, bombing embassies, floating boats laden with explosives into naval vessels, blowing themselves up in crowded markets, blowing up trains, busses, or subways, blowing up night clubs....

pauls: Please try and think clearly. The question is not what kind of crimes they commit (the mafia commits many different kinds of crimes) but how to deal with the criminals. The Rand corporation thinks a law enforcement approach is the way to go. But I assume you think they are stupid, too.

Yes I think they are stupid in this case, because I'd much rather have the terrorists killed before they kill me or you. As I stated earlier law enforcement is wonderful AFTER the crime has been committed, but you see you are dead.

Well, pauls, I guess that means you approve of sending the military into Montana and Oklahoma to root out the Tim McVeighs and would have let the British military into South Boston to root out the IRA sympathizers, of which there were many openly expressing those views and undoubtedly sending money. Not to mention the anti-Castro terrorists in Florida. We see how well the British military did in Northern Ireland and how badly the German police have done, right? Meanwhile the rightward leaning Rand folks who studied this for DHS are stupid. All they have is data and expertise. You are armed with something much more powerful because nothing can destroy it: your opinion.

Yep Revere I think they are full of crap. I have read their report on what they think should happen. I think that its short sighted, fills an agenda and only one at that. The Rand Corp. only thinks in the light of the current tunnel and not the one we are going to be in. This is very short sighted and they continue to exhort that peace is the only way to keep terrorism down. I for one havent seen peace in my lifetime. The glass is always half full and only of what the current Administration is pumping out and that applies to GWB too. Ultimately this is going to lead to the release of a nuclear weapon on this planet because probably less than 1% of the fanatics are 100% of the problem.

The Rand report is based upon one premise and that is that the terrorists are not an army. Just the opposite. They have hundreds of thousands of people who hide behind their ethnicity, scream oppression when someone does something to them, and they give aid and comfort to each other. So far we have police forces and they have been able to stop what? Only a few and when they do hit now we are talking thousands of people rather than the one off school bus or two.

Its a moving target and you have to be able to hit it to kill it. The Israelis have historically gone for the attempts at negotiations and for their trouble they get rocket attacks. Add in state sponsored attacks and Israel is about the defense of the Middle East. Its a beach head. Lose Israel, lose all semblance of control there in the Middle East. We are talking about Islamic fundamentalists. Many of the Islamic people are horrified by what is happening but if they were pressed they would fall back in on their principles of belief.

Knock out Israel and then they move to their next target, the EU. There with many of the nations very socialist, pacifist until someone comes in to kick their butts they do nothing. They wont recognize they are being infiltrated. In fact they are by the uterus taking over. You have people in the UK that say that now they need two different types of laws to cover people with religious beliefs. How about the achievement of manhood by a gang-banger here. Our religion says we have to cap someone and videotape it..... see where this is headed.

France had huge riots that almost turned into a civil war two years ago and last year. All were caused by Islamic ethnics who demand that government give them a job, health care (which they already get), acknowledge their religion and laws. And for this if they dont comply they get riots. Many are illegals, many are legal but they are carving out a beach head there too. Take France and you take the continent. But it also gives them a place to breed an army.

Militarily speaking they already have one. But its one that cant be touched by "law" and those terrorists smashed up Paris under the guise of ethnicity. The French police almost lost control. You add in Syria who was happily about to gaggle Israel with missiles last year, some six hundred that were fitted with both conventional and chemical warheads and you got a much bigger problem. All because it has expanded beyond the capabilities of the "police" to deal with it. And there is no international police force. The UN is more corrupt than Clinton and Bush put together. This ultimately will lead to war. While Neville Chamberlain negotiated a peace with Germany, they were bringing up reserves for the attack into France and Poland.

The US has gotten into the police force of the world thing and it hasnt worked out. We are outgunned and they got rights if you keep it as a police issue. It creates problems and hampers the true backstop to the police, the military. We need to declare wars and just decimate countries when we start these things. Not to do so gives us this limbo land crap such as Abu Ghraib and Gitmo. They are either combatants or terrorists. There is no in between. And this is why the are so screwed up. No one buys it.

But its really more simple than that... To have a fourth Amendment and/or the Bill of Rights you have to have a country in democracy. This new FISA has tamped both down a bit. But its finally beginning to dawn on the US and others that they are out to get us at all costs. They would kill a million to convert 10. We are headed for a showdown and you arent going to call SWAT for even a division level number of people with a single shot rifle in their hands.... You are going to call in air strikes. Currently the police dont have that capability.

But you can always afford them the right to an attorney, that we pay for, and of course they get all of the media coverage that they are such fine individuals and that we are screwing with their rights. They have rights until a war is declared and then they are enemy combatants, spies, or terrorists. The last two get summary executions by even the Geneva Conventions. They also have to put on a uniform or get the rope.

The Rand Corp? Give me a break.

Randy: All I can say is that many of us fear this is how fascism starts. We disagree, but I'll be glad to tell you when you can come out from under the bed. I heard the same crap in the fifties about "commies."

revere, the F in FISA means foreign...homegrown terrorists are a different animal altogether...although I don't actually think Ruby Ridge and Waco were successful law enforcement intervention in homegrown terrorism....you might though.

Okay no snarkies Pauls.... Keep it civil. No Revere I fully agree about that one and how the fascism starts. We had it under Hoover. I am also nervous but only from the standpoint that no one else but the US is really doing something about it overall. The Brits just put it in and the libs are already complaining. From a world tour situation, all of our "allies" have bailed out on us again and left us with the hard slogging. Kind of like Vietnam but even they saw the fallacies in that one.

Many of those allies have bailed in the face of terrorism/fascism. Spain arrested a bunch of terrorists who were involved with the subway bombings and the response was more terrorism. We didnt get it wrong in Iraq... we just didnt get it 100% right. I make it to be about 50/50. By this time if we hadnt done something we would have been about 75% right to hit Saddam. But thats because they arent a nation, they are a United States of Islam and moving behind the scenes to bring down any and all governments that do not acquiesce to their demands for a completely Islamic world.

I have no easy answers Revere but I feel that there can be no tip toeing on our parts. I want to see huge craters opening in whatever country that refuses to extradite people we want, or to even capture them when we know they can get them. WTF they can always declare war on us and then we can pull the gloves off. Its the committed Islamofascists that we are talking about here. Even my friends down the street from Pakistan say that we must stop this before it goes any farther. He is the first to say that they are doing it because they dont fear repercussions.

Good point above and well taken Revere. Pauls... Revere only gets a bit snarky when he feels that we dont get something. He is a fervent anti-government person when it comes to our rights, but on the backside of that he would give government control of your body via UHC and imposing rules and regulations to ensure that we end up in a socialist state.

In most cases he has been more than gracious to people. Try to keep it a few levels up and not personal when it comes to what you post up. I dont think there is or would be a case where he would raise a rifle against his fellow man. Two different philosophy's on where we are and what we need to do is all. He is a good man and far more humanitarian than I'll ever be. If you knew who he was his whole resume has been in trying to right obvious wrongs and educating students. As best I can tell he is not biased in doing that education and he does present both sides of most arguments in his papers.

Try to keep that in mind when posting up. He is a scientist, doctor and VERY opinionated outside of that. He tells you what he thinks, he tells you what he knows. If you catch him, he like me admits the mistake puts it on his I learned something today list and moves on.

Bests

Well, here comes the police state. ACTIVE duty combat units under the control of the DHS.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/30/AR20081…

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27989275/

"Randy: All I can say is that many of us fear this is how fascism starts. We disagree, but I'll be glad to tell you when you can come out from under the bed. I heard the same crap in the fifties about "commies."

I am an ex-military guy with a LOT of experience in the art of destruction and killing. This will be detailed as a domestic security force via the media. Posse Comitatus be damned is the thought. I warned of this and what to expect under an Obama Nation. Its a Clinton Playbook page and this is NOT a good idea. The left controls the media and they will pump this up. These people are dangerous and have absolutely not business in a domestic situation unless it is a disaster and that IS IT!

When you can get away with the supposition that you need an active duty 20,000 man force in place with the ability to use combat forces against a domestic disaster, then we are in DEEP trouble.

What do these people do in their off time? Play cards, train for sure but their mission by definition is combat. Look what they will be training for, supposed domestic terrorism and disasters. This is something that I support, but you can whip on a gas mask just so often, you can slap on the bio suit so many times in a month. Then you deploy. You deploy on orders of the SecDef via the DHS? Not me pal.... I can see where this is heading. If you drop into the mold of police state Germany and Mussolini's Italy then you are going to repeat the errors.

I am a strong supporter of the military and totally disagree with the Obama Nation and the use of a military police force. This is the creation and implementation of the SS pure and simple. The SECOND that they are used the shit is going to hit the fan. Military people do NOT play well with others. The Army in particular has people that could barely pass the ASVAB and these are the people that would be making local decisions. Uh-uh folks. This is where I draw the line on the military. Civil disobedience has always been dealt with by the National Guard and now we are going to have a national military police force.

All they have to do is designate a group (Waco) as being a threat that the police cant handle and you'll see the APC's and Bradleys in the streets acting against US citizens. Anyone remember the Czechs and Hungarians? Fighting Russian tanks with Molotovs ? All that is needed is to create a situation that indicates that we do need it. Civil war is the only answer after that.

Then what about the declaration of martial law or state of emergency? Who in the hell is going to be in charge? The head of DHS thats who. Responses to a disaster or terrorist attack SHOULD be turned over to the military and then they go home once its locally controllable. But this group is going to do WHAT specifically?

For your own information this is a full two divisions of WWII battle strength, and one division by todays standards. These guys will have helicopters, tanks, Bradleys, APC's, tube launched rocket systems, and artillery. 5 combat brigades with a domestic mission. Right, a domestic mission to go after Americans.

Revere: Fascism may have a political start but the enforcement of it always comes through the creation of a police state of some kind.

STEP 1 completed. Make sure you vote for the community organizer next time. That is if you are allowed to vote.

When I started reading the washington post release the first thought that came to my mind was pandemic.

Then this sentence popped up: "Last month, McHale said, authorities agreed to begin a $1.8 million pilot project funded by the Federal Emergency Management Agency through which civilian authorities in five states could tap military planners to develop disaster response plans. Hawaii, Massachusetts, South Carolina, Washington and West Virginia will each focus on a particular threat -- pandemic flu, a terrorist attack, hurricane, earthquake and catastrophic chemical release, respectively -- speeding up federal and state emergency planning begun in 2003."

This stuff needs to happen on a local level dammit.

And you're right MRK, military people do NOT play well with others. Any person who has never had any military experience will be stretched to really understand what that means.

Yes I think they are stupid in this case, because I'd much rather have the terrorists killed before they kill me or you. As I stated earlier law enforcement is wonderful AFTER the crime has been committed, but you see you are dead.

No offense, but that's an unbelievably fucking stupid thing to say. All sane people understand that the law enforcement approach includes preventative measures, surveillance, interdiction, port security, networks of informants, and so forth.

There are many terrorists in the Pacific Northwest, where I live. We don't round them up and execute them, nor do we bomb their neighborhoods. We do our best to monitor and infiltrate them. And we've been fairly successful so far, I think.

The sad fact is, most of us will die of the mundane threats that hysterics like you tend to overlook in favor of The Islamofascist Menace. Give me clean air, clean water, competent food inspectors, and decent healthcare, and I'll take my chances with the terrorists, thanks.

But even if you don't agree with that, the plain fact remains that "kill 'em all" is not a strategy. They can't do it to us, logistically speaking, and we can't do it to them.

Perhaps you geniuses had better come up with a Plan B, eh?

Phila, its totally amazing to me that no matter what anyone says here you say they are stupid, fucking stupid and above all in your opinion wrong. I have never, ever seen you agree with anyone that took any position other than yours. Even I do occasionally agree with some, part or all of what Revere and others say.

I am glad you live in the PacWest with the terrorists. You are just too damn stupid and set in your lib/leftist positions to see what this means. For the first time in history troops, COMBAT TROOPS are to be employed in domestic security. You make comments that people who disagree with you are hysterical and above all stupid and much below you. You make statements that you would trade food inspector for a terrorist and THAT YOU IGNORANT SLOB IS A PURELY STUPID REMARK. The terrorists of this world you pissant idiot would if you were a female first rape you repeatedly, then take you apart piece by piece because those Islamic guys that are doing this kind of stuff think you are a piece of meat. If you are a guy you would be lucky if they just killed you. I got the tape of the beheadings you goddamn fuckwit. Perhaps you forgot 9/11, the London and Madrid bombings, and as of late Mumbai.

Take your chances with terrorists? You have never been in situation where someone was trying to take your life. Revere has had to in the past try to put people back together that came close to losing theirs and for the record, they dont do so well afterwards. You sit back and pontificate in the PacWest with your green machines and just check out of society and think that all we do is think of ways to fuck with society as conservatives. Well you stupid bitch I have seen friends torn apart by mines, mortars and artillery fire. You absolutely are the lowest form of life on this earth and that is a Quisling. You'll be joining the other side when they show up and pointing out those terrorists to save your own skin you scum.

Only a retard would be making the statements you are making and combat troops do not really care about your politics if ordered to take you out. Those orders in about 60 days would be coming from your new fearless leader. Right or wrong, things are about to fundamentally change in this country and it likely will bring it down.

FUCK OFF!