Wish I could vote for the anti-christ. but alas, I'm Canadian. I vote for my parliamentarian Tuesday and I have a choice between bored, boring and bored-to-tears. We have an expression in this country: electile dysfunction. It's the syndrome whereby we find the American election more - er - arousing than our own.
Why must we be tolerant of gays and every other group under the sun, but disgrace and desecrate Christianity and Christians? Many of whom, you know and perhaps even love.
You can torment me all you want about my opinion on worldly issues, my race, my nationality, my....whatever. But why must you attack what is most sacred to me? Why is it such sport to mock Him and Christians?
I asked before and no one replied. Has anyone seen this?
Read it with an open mind and I wonder if you might comment? You must read it, to understand what I'm about to say. I believe, that many of you here, who step on religion are good people or at least have good and kind hearts. And therefore, like it or not, you hold within you (in some manner) "The Light".
Patch: Some of your fellow Christians (many of them, in fact) have brought it on themselves by circulating emails and circulars and leaflets and mail that Obama is the anti-Christ. They even have their own VP candidate. So don't yell at me. Yell at them!
I am not interested in religion except to tell it to get out of my face. You are free to believe whatever you want. It is none of my business. And vice versa.
I'm not in agreement that Obama is the anti-Christ. MANY of us are not, in fact. Including by the way, John McCain if you've seen any recent sound bytes, as he rebuked a rally participant.
I don't care that you know what I believe. While it is my business, I will freely share (if asked) my beliefs. My contention here, is that folks (not just you Revere) desecrate what is sacred to me.
Patch: I have no interest in trampling on your feelings, religious or otherwise. You are of course welcome to share you feelings here, as are many others. However I don't think you appreciate that the feeling of being violated and having cherished principles and beliefs desecrated is not peculiar to religious people reading push back of what their co-religionists have wrought. I am much more deeply offended by the defense of the Iraq slaughter or the homophobia or the assault on civil liberties that McCain-Palin represents than you can imagine. It is morally offensive and odious in a way I can't even express.
So if your feelings are bruised, join the crowd. And while you are at protesting that you don't think Obama is the anti-Christ, why don't you take your protest to those Christians, including the McCain-Palin campaign, that enables, abets and inflames such moronic and racist belief. I don't know what John McCain believes about this. Since he is widely reported to be a non-believer he probably doesn't believe Obama is the anti-Christ. All he has to do is say so. Palin, OTOH, probably does believe it. Why not complain about her? Like you, she is a Christian. In fact she is the kind of Christian that is the obvious and sole target of this parody that offends you. Instead of complaining about this minor blog, use your influence as a supporter to blast those in the McCain - Palin camp who promote this kind of hate?
Patch: I read your tinyurl, thank you. I have a christian friend who does believe Obama is the anti-christ. He's a good man though and doesn't have all the hate and anger that revere keeps pushing here. Yes, revere, you are encouraging this hate and anger just as much as those you are blasting.
Keep posting here Patch, I enjoy reading what you write.
Revere - With all due respect, I know we are all a part of the human race, but are you an Iraqi? Are you homosexual? I AM a Christian. These things are hurtful directly to me.
Anyone and everyone should support good. War IS terrible. And a questionable one is even more so. I can object (somewhat rationally and without attack) to same sex marriages, but be tolerant of gays. I've got gay freinds for Pete's sake!
The video is purposely hurtful to Christians. To what end? And Lea is right, you are what your despise.
I found the Video hilarious and I read Patchs link but am not sure what we are supposed to draw from it. I did not really see the video as attacking Christianity I took it as poking fun at the US Christian Right many of whose beliefs I assume, and hope, true Christian and Jesus would roundly denounce. It is taking the piss out of those who are trying to misappropriate Christianity as a branch of Republicanism which I would have thought much closer to the worshipers of Mammon. What was the point Patchs link was trying to make? That this Philosophy professor was not capable of making, or countering, a simple logical argument? Darkness is the absence of light and religion is based on faith not facts so whats new?
Patch: You choose to identify with the target of this video. Many others who are Christians like you choose to identify with the intent of the video. You are entitled to your feelings and opinion. Since you don't believe Obama is the anti-Christ, it is not about you or your beliefs. You only choose to make it about you and your beliefs. Your choice. I am with JJ on this.
I couldn't watch much of the video. For starters...dropping the F bomb in the same sentence as God's was about all I could handle.
I honestly could care less about the politics of it. It's the degradation of religion with the F Bomb that sickened me.
I'm trying to find a comparison....and this admittedly is not a good one. But if you had a young daughter (like me) and had to listen to some monster degrade her or offend her in front of you with profanity and vulgarities. That would certainly offend you wouldn't it? To watch a monster do it to someone's daughter is bad enough...but who could stand it being down to your own?
I come here for the wonderful content offered on public health. Heck...I don't even mind debating politics or even religion here on occasion. I want to be here. I just wish I wouldn't have to suffer through humiliating what I find Holy, to do it.
Surely if I were attacking something (like homosexuality) with the veracity that some of you attack religion, I would not be welcome long.
I'd live to convert you to Christianity. That's my charge and given the opportunity, I'll give it a shot. But this isn't my blog. And you can tell me to shove it because of that. I'm just asking to let me continue to be a part of it, without insulting God. Is that too much to ask? Is it too much to ask that we ALL become more tolerant?
Patch: I don't think you understand the extent to which people who believe in God interfere with the lives of others. They are the intolerant ones. I will not cease to push back until they get out of the public sphere. And please do not try to convert me. It is an insult and condescending. When Christians (and Jews and Muslims, etc.) get out of my face and my life and everyone's bedroom and pocketbook I'l get out of their face. I haven't insulted anything that exists for me. I may only have insulted those who push this on everyone else. Believe whatever you want but keep it to yourself and nothing I say will apply to you or what you believe in. That's as plain as I can make it.
"Obama is the: Anti-Christ/Muslim/unpatriotic/non-Christian/Un-American/etc/etc/etc"=I am a racist, so I'd never vote for___________ (use fav racial epithet)
People who believe in God are intolerant? As I reread our conversation (even your last post), I see the intolerance a little differently I guess.
And it appears your advice to me is.....Patch, get in the closet. But please don't block the gays on their way out.
Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy here?
Revere I have great respect for your opinions on public health. In turn, I hope you'll not mistake my opinion (or perhaps my plea) for insistence on conforming to my view. I just am uncomfortable seeing someone I respect disrespecting something I find sacred.
This is clearly not a Christian based web site. Why are you so uncomfortable with the disrespect shown to something you find sacred?
As far as I can ascertain, this is an open forum for discussion, and just about anything goes. I believe there is more than a hint, that the Revere's do not adhere to any one religion. Why the surprise?
Patch: I'm not trying to convert you to atheism. That's your business. I'm glad you respect my opinion on public health. I hope it's based on evidence that my opinion deserves respect and I wouldn't take it for granted. What I say here is not immune to questioning.
It seems your position is that I must respect what you respect. I don't see why that is. In fact I don't respect religion. I consider it a destructive form of tribalism. I don't respect nationalism or patriotism for the same reasons. I don't respect tribalism in the strictest sense. I don't respect sexism or racism or other forms of tribalism. If you, for deeply held religious reasons think that men are superior to women, that's your business but I wouldn't respect it just because it is a deeply held belief. If you think Americans are superior to other people I don't respect that, either. If you think Jews are better than other people I don't respect that either.
I don't care if you are "in the closet" or not about your beliefs. Just don't set up your beliefs in my world. I don't respect them and don't subscribe to them and I think that their operation in the real world where I live is pernicious and harmful and more often than not evil.
I don't care if you feel the same way about atheism. That's your choice. I promise not to try to convert you or arrange the world so that you have to be an atheist or a Christian or a Hindu or a Jew or a Muslim or a Zoroastrian or a Scientologist or a Buddhist (either Hinayana or Mahayana) or a Catholic or a Wickan or an agnostic or a Confucianist or a Taoist or a Shinto or a Druid or the Baha'i faith or a Sikh or a Yazidi or a Gnostic or a Mawahadoon or a Druze or a Makumba or a Lakumi or an Ifa or a Santaria or a Satanist or . . .
I don't think we'll find much common ground on religion. I can be content with my belief and you with yours. In fact, as you perhaps sarcastically point out.....we both can be content to allow people the freedom to live within other religions. And we'll all live happily ever after.
You seem to lump the few far right with the entire right.
I'm not concerned about you converting me or rearranging the world for atheists. And If you don't respect what I respect, that's fine. But must you disgrace it or intentionally disrespect it?
The Revere's just plain don't care, don't respect, and don't subscribe to anyone's "personal" beliefs.
That is as it should be! This wonderful website would not be as fluid, insisive, interesting, funny, confronting, informative, and entertaining, if it was hog tied by social mores and conventions. Everyone gets their butt kicked on this site,often, more than once (I should know), everyone gets over it. This site is exhilarating and I for one enjoy reading the banter. People have to get over themselves, test the waters, and then jump in where they can.
Patch: You've known that several friends here including myself have the experiences of shoulder pains- the pain that sometimes has made you to think to cut it off. A distant lover of the United States like me has observed that religious turbulence now in the US is like back pain, troublesome nevertheless can not be cut off completely.
As for the meaning of Christ, since its beginning it has been associating with sacarsm- perhaps a forever design of paradox. Just putting yourself in the situation that you have friends of prostitutes now, then your interpretation of sacredness will be similar to Jesus' version.
Jesus himself was a anti-Christ IMO, or more correctly was anti-Messiah. He refused to take the path of millitant Messiah and offended the sacred priests in that time which was the major reason to be crucifed. Overall, he was a big failure, died in humiliation.
Nevertheless, his story has been told more than two thousand years, even our dear Revere continues in this blog. Paradoxical acumen ;-)
To me the one of saying anti-Christ in the video is virtually a crook. I never understand why in the United has such serious back pain. Treatable? Yes.
Realizing this isn't my blog....and also that the leash is pretty long here....I still don't think it's necessary and I hope that everyone is allowed these same standards in the spirit of "banter".
Send me my ballot! I have seen the light! This guy is brilliant!
The Modest Agnostic: he's great!
I hope sincerely that Obama the anti-christ will use this wonderful and wise minion of evil as his primary advisor >:P
Normally I'm not religious, yet, weirdly, it all makes sense when explained that way... ;)
Lies and heresy. This man is clearly an agent of Satan, as you can hear from his un-American accent.
Further evidence: he dares to use Country (named after our glorious country) music in an non-christian way, unlike the founding fathers had intended.
Wish I could vote for the anti-christ. but alas, I'm Canadian. I vote for my parliamentarian Tuesday and I have a choice between bored, boring and bored-to-tears. We have an expression in this country: electile dysfunction. It's the syndrome whereby we find the American election more - er - arousing than our own.
I'm literally sickened by hearing that.
Why must we be tolerant of gays and every other group under the sun, but disgrace and desecrate Christianity and Christians? Many of whom, you know and perhaps even love.
You can torment me all you want about my opinion on worldly issues, my race, my nationality, my....whatever. But why must you attack what is most sacred to me? Why is it such sport to mock Him and Christians?
I asked before and no one replied. Has anyone seen this?
http://tinyurl.com/56bqt7
Read it with an open mind and I wonder if you might comment? You must read it, to understand what I'm about to say. I believe, that many of you here, who step on religion are good people or at least have good and kind hearts. And therefore, like it or not, you hold within you (in some manner) "The Light".
Patch: Some of your fellow Christians (many of them, in fact) have brought it on themselves by circulating emails and circulars and leaflets and mail that Obama is the anti-Christ. They even have their own VP candidate. So don't yell at me. Yell at them!
I am not interested in religion except to tell it to get out of my face. You are free to believe whatever you want. It is none of my business. And vice versa.
I'm not in agreement that Obama is the anti-Christ. MANY of us are not, in fact. Including by the way, John McCain if you've seen any recent sound bytes, as he rebuked a rally participant.
I don't care that you know what I believe. While it is my business, I will freely share (if asked) my beliefs. My contention here, is that folks (not just you Revere) desecrate what is sacred to me.
Respectfully,
Patch
Patch: I have no interest in trampling on your feelings, religious or otherwise. You are of course welcome to share you feelings here, as are many others. However I don't think you appreciate that the feeling of being violated and having cherished principles and beliefs desecrated is not peculiar to religious people reading push back of what their co-religionists have wrought. I am much more deeply offended by the defense of the Iraq slaughter or the homophobia or the assault on civil liberties that McCain-Palin represents than you can imagine. It is morally offensive and odious in a way I can't even express.
So if your feelings are bruised, join the crowd. And while you are at protesting that you don't think Obama is the anti-Christ, why don't you take your protest to those Christians, including the McCain-Palin campaign, that enables, abets and inflames such moronic and racist belief. I don't know what John McCain believes about this. Since he is widely reported to be a non-believer he probably doesn't believe Obama is the anti-Christ. All he has to do is say so. Palin, OTOH, probably does believe it. Why not complain about her? Like you, she is a Christian. In fact she is the kind of Christian that is the obvious and sole target of this parody that offends you. Instead of complaining about this minor blog, use your influence as a supporter to blast those in the McCain - Palin camp who promote this kind of hate?
Patch: I read your tinyurl, thank you. I have a christian friend who does believe Obama is the anti-christ. He's a good man though and doesn't have all the hate and anger that revere keeps pushing here. Yes, revere, you are encouraging this hate and anger just as much as those you are blasting.
Keep posting here Patch, I enjoy reading what you write.
Thank you Lea. I appreciate that.
Revere - With all due respect, I know we are all a part of the human race, but are you an Iraqi? Are you homosexual? I AM a Christian. These things are hurtful directly to me.
Anyone and everyone should support good. War IS terrible. And a questionable one is even more so. I can object (somewhat rationally and without attack) to same sex marriages, but be tolerant of gays. I've got gay freinds for Pete's sake!
The video is purposely hurtful to Christians. To what end? And Lea is right, you are what your despise.
I found the Video hilarious and I read Patchs link but am not sure what we are supposed to draw from it. I did not really see the video as attacking Christianity I took it as poking fun at the US Christian Right many of whose beliefs I assume, and hope, true Christian and Jesus would roundly denounce. It is taking the piss out of those who are trying to misappropriate Christianity as a branch of Republicanism which I would have thought much closer to the worshipers of Mammon. What was the point Patchs link was trying to make? That this Philosophy professor was not capable of making, or countering, a simple logical argument? Darkness is the absence of light and religion is based on faith not facts so whats new?
Patch: You choose to identify with the target of this video. Many others who are Christians like you choose to identify with the intent of the video. You are entitled to your feelings and opinion. Since you don't believe Obama is the anti-Christ, it is not about you or your beliefs. You only choose to make it about you and your beliefs. Your choice. I am with JJ on this.
I couldn't watch much of the video. For starters...dropping the F bomb in the same sentence as God's was about all I could handle.
I honestly could care less about the politics of it. It's the degradation of religion with the F Bomb that sickened me.
I'm trying to find a comparison....and this admittedly is not a good one. But if you had a young daughter (like me) and had to listen to some monster degrade her or offend her in front of you with profanity and vulgarities. That would certainly offend you wouldn't it? To watch a monster do it to someone's daughter is bad enough...but who could stand it being down to your own?
I come here for the wonderful content offered on public health. Heck...I don't even mind debating politics or even religion here on occasion. I want to be here. I just wish I wouldn't have to suffer through humiliating what I find Holy, to do it.
Surely if I were attacking something (like homosexuality) with the veracity that some of you attack religion, I would not be welcome long.
I'd live to convert you to Christianity. That's my charge and given the opportunity, I'll give it a shot. But this isn't my blog. And you can tell me to shove it because of that. I'm just asking to let me continue to be a part of it, without insulting God. Is that too much to ask? Is it too much to ask that we ALL become more tolerant?
Patch: I don't think you understand the extent to which people who believe in God interfere with the lives of others. They are the intolerant ones. I will not cease to push back until they get out of the public sphere. And please do not try to convert me. It is an insult and condescending. When Christians (and Jews and Muslims, etc.) get out of my face and my life and everyone's bedroom and pocketbook I'l get out of their face. I haven't insulted anything that exists for me. I may only have insulted those who push this on everyone else. Believe whatever you want but keep it to yourself and nothing I say will apply to you or what you believe in. That's as plain as I can make it.
True thought processes:
"Obama is the: Anti-Christ/Muslim/unpatriotic/non-Christian/Un-American/etc/etc/etc"=I am a racist, so I'd never vote for___________ (use fav racial epithet)
People who believe in God are intolerant? As I reread our conversation (even your last post), I see the intolerance a little differently I guess.
And it appears your advice to me is.....Patch, get in the closet. But please don't block the gays on their way out.
Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy here?
Revere I have great respect for your opinions on public health. In turn, I hope you'll not mistake my opinion (or perhaps my plea) for insistence on conforming to my view. I just am uncomfortable seeing someone I respect disrespecting something I find sacred.
Patch,
This is clearly not a Christian based web site. Why are you so uncomfortable with the disrespect shown to something you find sacred?
As far as I can ascertain, this is an open forum for discussion, and just about anything goes. I believe there is more than a hint, that the Revere's do not adhere to any one religion. Why the surprise?
Patch: I'm not trying to convert you to atheism. That's your business. I'm glad you respect my opinion on public health. I hope it's based on evidence that my opinion deserves respect and I wouldn't take it for granted. What I say here is not immune to questioning.
It seems your position is that I must respect what you respect. I don't see why that is. In fact I don't respect religion. I consider it a destructive form of tribalism. I don't respect nationalism or patriotism for the same reasons. I don't respect tribalism in the strictest sense. I don't respect sexism or racism or other forms of tribalism. If you, for deeply held religious reasons think that men are superior to women, that's your business but I wouldn't respect it just because it is a deeply held belief. If you think Americans are superior to other people I don't respect that, either. If you think Jews are better than other people I don't respect that either.
I don't care if you are "in the closet" or not about your beliefs. Just don't set up your beliefs in my world. I don't respect them and don't subscribe to them and I think that their operation in the real world where I live is pernicious and harmful and more often than not evil.
I don't care if you feel the same way about atheism. That's your choice. I promise not to try to convert you or arrange the world so that you have to be an atheist or a Christian or a Hindu or a Jew or a Muslim or a Zoroastrian or a Scientologist or a Buddhist (either Hinayana or Mahayana) or a Catholic or a Wickan or an agnostic or a Confucianist or a Taoist or a Shinto or a Druid or the Baha'i faith or a Sikh or a Yazidi or a Gnostic or a Mawahadoon or a Druze or a Makumba or a Lakumi or an Ifa or a Santaria or a Satanist or . . .
I don't think we'll find much common ground on religion. I can be content with my belief and you with yours. In fact, as you perhaps sarcastically point out.....we both can be content to allow people the freedom to live within other religions. And we'll all live happily ever after.
You seem to lump the few far right with the entire right.
I'm not concerned about you converting me or rearranging the world for atheists. And If you don't respect what I respect, that's fine. But must you disgrace it or intentionally disrespect it?
The Revere's just plain don't care, don't respect, and don't subscribe to anyone's "personal" beliefs.
That is as it should be! This wonderful website would not be as fluid, insisive, interesting, funny, confronting, informative, and entertaining, if it was hog tied by social mores and conventions. Everyone gets their butt kicked on this site,often, more than once (I should know), everyone gets over it. This site is exhilarating and I for one enjoy reading the banter. People have to get over themselves, test the waters, and then jump in where they can.
Patch: You've known that several friends here including myself have the experiences of shoulder pains- the pain that sometimes has made you to think to cut it off. A distant lover of the United States like me has observed that religious turbulence now in the US is like back pain, troublesome nevertheless can not be cut off completely.
As for the meaning of Christ, since its beginning it has been associating with sacarsm- perhaps a forever design of paradox. Just putting yourself in the situation that you have friends of prostitutes now, then your interpretation of sacredness will be similar to Jesus' version.
Jesus himself was a anti-Christ IMO, or more correctly was anti-Messiah. He refused to take the path of millitant Messiah and offended the sacred priests in that time which was the major reason to be crucifed. Overall, he was a big failure, died in humiliation.
Nevertheless, his story has been told more than two thousand years, even our dear Revere continues in this blog. Paradoxical acumen ;-)
To me the one of saying anti-Christ in the video is virtually a crook. I never understand why in the United has such serious back pain. Treatable? Yes.
Interesting.......
OK - Point taken.
Realizing this isn't my blog....and also that the leash is pretty long here....I still don't think it's necessary and I hope that everyone is allowed these same standards in the spirit of "banter".
I remain, respectfully,
Patch