Why is New York coffee so bad?

I can't speak for NYC with authority, but the Albany, NY (state capital) area a few years ago had the second highest per capita coffee consumption in the US (First at that time was Pittsburgh.). Albany has had its own small, local coffee roaster since the early '70s, long before Starbucks and its clones began operations.

I've had more than my fill of Pacific Northwest coffee, and I simply feel that dark roasting coffee enhances the wrong flavor components of coffee. It tends to conceal the more mellow, fruity and wine-like components of coffee. We have a number of excellent coffee roasters in the northeast (notably Paul deLima in Syracuse and Green Mountain in Vermont) who do a wonderful job of producing coffees with wonderful body and flavor that are *not* dark roasted.

I'd solicit opinions from sources that are not exclusively devotees of dark roasting, espressos, and cappuccinos, as the Barista writers seem to be.

In short, tastes vary. I like my coffee very strong and black, but not dark roasted. I suspect many others in the northeast may feel the same. Our biggest gripe about Starbucks is that they have made it possible to hugely inflate the cost of a good cup of coffee.

Overall, in my experience, US coffee is weak, thin and bitter. I have no idea why that is; cultural preference is my guess. It's not only my observation either - here in Japan, weak, thin coffee is always named "amerikan kouhii" in coffee shops (as opposed to full-bodied "burendo (blend) kouhii").

But cultural preference is not only a factor between countries, it works within much smaller regional areas as well. Coffee taste in northern Sweden is completely different from central Sweden on one hand, and different again from the southernmost area on the other (different as in brewing technique is different and coffee producers sell different products). I would not be surprised if New York coffee is not bad so much as just catering to a local preference markedly different from other parts of your country.

As an aside, my current favorite coffees right now are Vietnamese. They tend to be very full-bodied - frequently creamy - and often with a marked nutty aftertaste. It's like having a hot, still, hazy summer afternoon in a cup.

New York City can be a surprisingly insular place. Trends that do not originate there are often absorbed surprisingly slowly, especially those that originate in what New Yorkers consider "backwater" type areas. The gourmet coffee trend is relatively recent, so most NYC establishments serve the kind of stuff we drank back in the day, it's just part of their charm!

Most really important rules in life are very simple:

If you want good coffee, find an Italian.

In what way is it bad, according to the writers? Maybe the writers are non-tasters, or super-tasters -- you'd figure that if they're going to agree enough to write an article, they'll be from the same group. Maybe New York caters to the group they don't belong to?

I drink one cup of coffee from a vendor. regular milk, no sugar, at the ferry terminal on the SI side. 16oz $1.25

Fine cup, tasty, not bitter, not weak. good enough caffine.

during the day I use the free single cup packets. They kinda suck.

I live in Brooklyn and I think most coffee available, say on the way to work, here in NYC is pretty rubbishy. Ordering a "regular coffee" here gets you a heaping amount of sugar and milk, so most places don't bother with a good brew. That said, if you look, there are places (little cafes mostly) that serve good coffee.

Personally, I drink Kicking Horse brand coffee - either Kick Ass or Bear Claw - strong & black and ground for a french press. It's great coffee and it's fair trade.

assman, multiple northwesterners i know (including myself) have been shocked @ the shiteness of "good" newyawk coffee (e.g., the "must drinks" listed in guides or what locals say). it is notable cuz newyawk is the capital of Culture.

I don't think the trend is limited to New York, but rather the entire eastern seaboard. Coffee on the Atlantic Coast isn't as strongly recognized as coffee from the PNW or Europe.

Its starting to catch on, but as Dave pointed out, folks on the Atlantic coast view coffee as a vehicle for delivering cream & sugar. Having worked at Starbucks in Washington and Baltimore, its interesting to see the trends between the two places - more regular coffees in Baltimore, more lattes and cappuccinos in Seattle. And the people who get regular coffees in Baltimore OVERWHELMINGLY add sweeteners and cream. Ridiculous amounts of it too.

As an aside: Just because I worked there doesn't make me a starbucks junkie. My favorite Seattle coffee waffled between Tully's and Lighthouse Roasters.

When I was in NYC a year ago the Starbucks I went to seemed to have an entirely different clientele, with a plurality of middle school / HS girls. Maybe New Yorkers are too rushed to hang out in coffee shops and just use coffee for caffeine delivery.

I had Japanese style coffee in Taiwan 25 years ago, and it was better than anything I've seen even today in the US (including the NW) . You chose between about 15 kinds of beans, and they ground and brewed one cup worth of beans right in front of you. It was expensive ($3 then, probably $8 today) but coffee shops were a necessary refuge from the bad air and traffic noise of the street.

For the record, $3 then would be $6 today. Still expensive, and restaurants in Taiwan then were significantly cheaper than in the US.

p.s. the baristas who mentioned how bad new york coffee were in barista magazine were from dublin & norway.

It depends on WHERE you drink in NY...

I'm not sure what "must-drink" places you've seen listed. The only "must-drink" joints I'm aware of are Cafe Grumpy, Gimme! Coffee, Joe Art of Coffee, Ninth St. Espresso and Cafe Collage. I've never seen anywhere else recommended.

And if you don't like those, can't help you further.

I think a big part of the problem is that there's simply no way an indie can open a coffeehouse in midtown. Way too expensive both for rent and for capable help. You'll see a couple of shops in Chelsea or Alphabet City where it's slightly more affordable. Or Brooklyn.

Yes, NYC coffee is, in general, a tremendous disappointment. I used to think that one of the things that made NYC great was that there were always enough people in close proximity to support a quality market for just about any product or interest. NYC coffee is the one thing that makes me no longer believe this.

When I last went on a coffee tour of NYC in search of some of the best espresso the city could offer, in 2005, I was gravely disappointed with few exceptions. Many of the places that earned accolades in the independent (and also the not-so-independent) local press were typically either out-of-business (closed within 12 months of receiving their praise) or hardly any better than a typical Starbucks.

There are a few exceptions where that's slowly starting to change. But New York really should be capable of supporting the best of everything -- and coffee is hardly a stretch, niche market. But when it comes to coffee, unfortunately, Gotham has nothing over middle America.

I live in Ne York and worked on a 3-week project in Seattle a few years back, and I noticed that almost every block in Seattle has a coffee shop, and there were a number of different chains operating there.

Most average New Yorkers grab a cup of coffee from a street vendor, often as they rush into or out of the subway - as RichW says, real estate is very expensive here. Most vendors offer just hot coffee, with lots of sugar and milk, often it has been brewing for ages and they just add more coffee and water to the pot...

So I think New Yorkers don't expect too much from their coffee. I drink tea at home and coffee at work, and think it was Timothy's Coffee where I had the "best" coffee. I too am not a fan of dark roasted - or slightly burnt - coffee.

I think the best coffee bean I ever had was New Guinea Peaberry.

'I've had more than my fill of Pacific Northwest coffee, and I simply feel that dark roasting coffee enhances the wrong flavor components of coffee. It tends to conceal the more mellow, fruity and wine-like components of coffee.'

chezjake:

i moved to nyc from seattle about a year and a half ago, so i'm hopelessly biased, but i don't think the differences can be chalked up to the roasts. at the cafes here they pull espressos too long, and almost no one knows how to foam milk without burning it (with the honorable exceptions of gimme coffee, joe and ninth street espresso - where they've actually flown in seattlites to train their employees)