The People of Hartford Connecticut are Heartless Barbarians

There was easily >20 people (including those in cars) that appear to be doing not much. So other than calling 911, what were these people doing to help?

While I shouldn't use this as a platform to rail against religion, I keep hearing about how 50 - 70% of the country are god-fearing Xians. So Im thinking there was probably (20 * 0.5 = 10) at least 10 self-proclaimed Xians watching/ignoring the accident-crime. Other than making sure who I do and do not have sex with and what truth is taught in schools, what are Xians good for again?

It doesn't help that I'm (recreationally) reading a 1982 book on crime scene investigation (it was cheap at Half Price and I thought it was something I should know about.)

Note the amount of time it takes for anyone to go into the street, make themselves visible to traffic, and see if the poor bastard is still alive. You can't see the number of cell phones in use and I'm assuming by the short time it takes for the cops to arrive (a little over a minute), someone's phoned it in and it's been relayed by dispatcher to a black & white.

I can only assume that the victim was from Massachusetts because he seemed to believe cars would stop if he was in the street. I spent eight years dodging traffic in Madison, WI and the following 17 years evading all manner of morons and murderous malcontents in Louisiana and Texas; I suspect the only reason I've survived until now is because my reflexes and observational skills haven't failed me.

A recent trip to Boston, Lowell, and Northampton MA disturbed me because drivers actually stopped for peds - I'm conditioned to believe that he who has the most momentum wins and that I take my life in my hands every time I cross the street. I don't like it, it may not be fair or legal, but I figure I only get one chance at this life thing so I don't trust drivers to look out for my safety. Cross at a crosswalk and move quickly to clear the lane.

I'm not blaming the victim, mind you. It's unconscionable to hit someone and not stop to render aid or at the very least apologize. I cannot imagine the driver didn't know he (she?) hit someone - watch the swerve - and note the calm drive away. There were no brake lights or any other sign that they had second thoughts or a twinge of conscience and both the first and second car illegally passing took a quick right turn after the guy was hit. The footage leading up to the impact shows two-way traffic so coupled with the double-yellow there shouldn't be any traffic in that direction in that lane.

The callousness of the hit and run coupled with the unwillingness of the bystanders to hustle and render aid makes this particularly gruesome. What the hell is wrong with these people?

Unless they have some sort of medical experience, what the hell are they supposed to do? I'd be afraid to touch the guy for fear of making it worse. Seriously, what were they to do other than call 911 which appeared to happen very quickly? It's clear by how they approach and stop. What should they do?

If I'm hit by a car and lying there with possible neck and spine injuries, the last thing I want is some self important amateur yahoo coming over and manipulating me. Just kindly call the professionals.

Barbarians? What are you? And Evangelical Christian? Because you sure have the whole self righteousness and judgementalism down solid.

Note the amount of time it takes for anyone to go into the street

Few of them probably actually saw the accident happen. They turn and seem some guy lying in the street, and there's a period of "WTF?" Hustle and render aid? What aid? You assuming there was anyone there who could render aid? And any paramedic will tell you the worst thing to do in such a situation is move the victim.

Seriously, you guys must be on crack. You see evil in this video? I just see confused people taken aback and unsure what to do. Gruesome? What are you, twelve years old?

Does nobody in the US have even basic first aid training? Last time I saw somebody get hit by a car here in Edinburgh, there were two trained first aiders giving assistance by the time I'd got through to the emergency services.

Does nobody in the US have even basic first aid training?

No, if you get hurt here, you're screwed. Then, if you were trained in first aid, help someone and something goes wrong, well, then you'll lose everything because you're going to court.

Then, there's the mind your own business thing here, nobody wants to get involved. That is, unless you're gay and then there are swarms of people who are more than happy to tell you what they think and what you should do.

We're a wacky bunch.

B13 and Gary, if you actually ask an EMT, they'll tell you there are plenty of things to do short of moving the victim. Some of them involve stopping further injury; some, collecting information that the EMT's would really like to have when they get there.

Go here:

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009176.html

Start with the trauma and AVPU posts, but there's lots of good information in the rest.

And let's not forget the simple kindnesses of telling the victim that help is coming and letting them know they're not alone.

Joel, the first of the trauma posts I linked to discussed Good Samaritan laws--laws to protect people who help. The information there was news to me.

Lorax: "While I shouldn't use this as a platform to rail against religion,"

How dare you use my blog to rail against religion! But yes, exactly, I was thinking the same thing.

Bob: "I can only assume that the victim was from Massachusetts because he seemed to believe cars would stop if he was in the street....A recent trip to Boston, Lowell, and Northampton MA disturbed me because drivers actually stopped for peds"

I lived in Mass for 17 years (sort of), moved away and it was quite some time before I visited Cambridge/Boston. I found myself driving a huge old station wagon (the Irvmobile for those who know it) to give people rides home one night at 3:00 AM or so. and I was astonished. ASTONISHED! at the same exact thing. The rules TOTALLY changed.

B13, you are young and inexperienced. First of all, All Americans are required to get a High School diploma, and in doing, we learn the answer to the questions you pose here. Why, just last night, a local high school graduate was acknowledged at graduation and her health teacher were acknowledged for having saved a man's life in a similar situation just earlier this week.

Second, it is abundantly obvious that a couple of people could have gone out into t he street and made sure the poor sap did not get run over again.

If there was arterial bleeding (maybe unlikely in this case but maybe not) you stop that with pressure.

In a very similar situation I observed some years back, the victim had both a head injury and a seizure. So holding the individual still so that the seziure does not further damage the head/neck is, while difficult, not a bad idea.

You can see if the person is conscious. A conscious person may be able to tell you things that you should relay to the EMT's when they arrive after the victim has lost consciousness.

The guy's last words might be "It was a setup ... Muggey Malone was driving that second car... Make sure he serves time.. And tell my wife and kids I love 'em"

And so on.

Joel is being cynical or ignorant or someting (right, Joel?) All kids in HS these days get training, and there are all sorts of organizations like The Y and so on that offer it. We don't get enough, but things have improved in recent years. It is not impossible to find a situation where someone is injured and no one has advanced first aid training, but the opposite is true as well, and you find first aid trained people flocking to the injured perosn.

But see list above for things you don't need training to do.

Sephanie: Right, like you say.

I'm a cynic Greg, I can't help it. I heard ignorance is bliss, so I thought I would try that but, didn't help either. It's hopeless.

Bob: I cannot imagine the driver didn't know he (she?) hit someone - watch the swerve - and note the calm drive away.

It was very strange... There were in fact two cars in that lane, apparently passing (or doing something equally stupid) when there's double yellow lines. And they didn't just calmly drive away, either - they hit the gas and took the nearest turn they could.

Heartless bastards is only too true.

I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation, I think most people panic and try to avoid scary things... but I guess I would also expect someone to see something dead/dying in the street and at least go check to see if there was hope... Did you notice that every car drove by, or someone was dropped off and walked right past? Or the person on the scooter/motorcycle who took a little rubbernecking detour...

Joel, I know. And I appreciate it.

Shirakawasuna: My first reaction was that this was a pair of gang bangers or teenagers doing the typical thing. Which is either driving like this or sitting in the middle of the intersection checking on business.

Pretty damn quick response by the police. The guy gets hit @ 24 seconds into the clip, and the car arrives @ 1:22 seconds. It looked (to me) that the SUV that pulled over right after the victim was hit may have phoned it in (or the person in light clothes who went into the shop @ about 31 seconds) - he(she) was stopped for ~20 seconds. The police car appears in the frame at ~ 1:18 seconds, or about 40 seconds after the first person could have gotten through to 911. IOW, the police response being so quick is almost certainly coincidence.

At the VERY least some of the bystanders could/should have kept the victim from being hit again, and possibly offered some comfort "You're going to be ok, help's been called" sort of thing.

From what I've been able to gather, at least four 911 calls came in about the accident. The victim is/was in critical condition. The police on the scene were responding to an unrelated call and just happened on the victim so that explains the phenomenal response time - dumb luck. My wife is more familiar with Connecticut than I am and while she said Hartford has some sketchy parts, this wasn't one of them (10 blocks from the capitol.)

As for the "render aid" comment: My bad for not adding "... to the best of one's ability" though I'm having a little trouble understanding the leap of logic to "unthinkingly move the victim, exacerbating any neck and spine damage." You don't have to move the victim, you just have to be close enough to see if there's anything you can do that will do more good than harm within your knowledge and ability.

I'll buy the defense of "I didn't know what to do and I panicked" but not "I didn't know what to do and besides, it's not my job." Call me anachronistic, but I still hold onto the notion of civic duty. I'd want someone to come over and see how I was doing, try to keep things from getting any worse, and hang out until the professionals arrive. I don't think that's too much to ask but apparently I'm in the minority, at least in Hartford.

This is why everyone has to watch the last episode of Seinfeld.

Is it enough to have not been able to watch any episodes of Seinfeld?

Why were you unable to watch?

Five minutes did bad things to my mood and my blood pressure. I wanted to shake all the characters until their teeth rattled and tell them to grow up and get real lives. I understand that my reaction was atypical. :)

The people standing by should have at least gone into the middle of the street and made sure no other cars hit the guy. At the same time they could whip out the cell phone and call. It might be a bad idea to move the guy, but at least protect him from further harm. (basic first aide says "Check , Call, Care" - Check the area to make sure you don't get hurt and prevent further injuries. Call police or paramedics etc. Care for the injured if you can.)

The people standing by should have at least gone into the middle of the street and made sure no other cars hit the guy. At the same time they could whip out the cell phone and call. It might be a bad idea to move the guy, but at least protect him from further harm. (basic first aide says "Check , Call, Care" - Check the area to make sure you don't get hurt and prevent further injuries. Call police or paramedics etc. Care for the injured if you can.)

Believe it or not, but this video actually made it onto the prime time evening newscast in German television - as a bad example for how not to react when an accident happens....

See, here's the thing about Seinfeld. It was funny and clever if yoiu were culturally tuned to it. Not that being culturally tuned to it was a positive or negative thing, just a thing. Really, an east coast thing. I have yet to meet a Minnesotan who could stand it, and few New Yorkers did not think it was hysterical. Partly because there were a lot of inside jokes. Seinfeld was, essentially, a reificaiton of an on going trope well developed by the time it was ever concieved. Like Grumpy Old Men was a reification of the Minnesota Ice Fishing Culture and Psycho a reification of the Midwestern Lonely Motel culture, and so on.

BUT.... ---> That culture had a mean side to it. Indifference, insensitivity, and selfishness was part of the gig, and part of what makes it funny. It IS what made it edgy. In fact, it is what edgy is, or was, in some ways.

This was at many levels, from individual concerns or lack thereof to the stupid themes that played through every show as the side plot.

This is why the last episode is so important, in fact, an important social phenomenon.

I'm not sure being from the east coast would have helped. Well, it probably would have helped, but there are certain places where I'm just irony impaired. Humor that depends on meanness is one of them. I'm the only person I know who doesn't like Ferris Bueller, and Heathers was really funny once. Rewatching it gets uncomfortable very quickly. The more I write "villains," the worse it gets. I think it's some weird excess of empathy.

And yeah, I know I'm often funny when I'm being mean. I haven't even started to reconcile that.

But maybe I'll give that last episode a look one of these days.

If you were irony impared on the East Coast you would have either gotten the irony or been culled. Left in the Catskills to be discovered by the employees of Grosingers where you would work in the kitchen thereafter.

For me, Ferris was interesting. My then fiancee realized I had never seen it and made me watch it. It was OK.

The last episode may be a two parter. Anybody know????

There are reasons I live where I do, and they have nothing to do with not having been other places. I need trees and water, geeks and artists, a city big enough to employ me properly (harder than it sounds) with large stretches of relatively undisturbed land at least nearby, and a culture that's working on growing up. I thrive in the right environment, but I know how much of that is the environment.

And I wouldn't be working in the kitchen. I'd be running the place, unacknowledged, from the background.

That's why I'm glad I ended up (and I did just end up, but whatever) in Minnesota.

How did that happen? I'm sure there's a story in there somewhere.

There are many interesting stories surrounding the actual getting here, but the actual reason is mundane. My (then but not now) wife got a job here.

joining late now, but a few thoughts...

first of all, gLaden, if this is barbaric to you, maybe you have forgotten other things you have seen? (I know this sounds horrible, but i make no apology.) or maybe you haven't seen them? The human bonfires, or driving nails into a man's skull over a period of hours for SLOW torture. I do think this video shows a pathetic side of humanity, but not barbaric.

Secondly, Stephanie Z sounds like an AWESOME person i'd like to meet! Yes, I have walked a traumatic impact victim out of this life. The biggest question I still have is if he needed to meet me, OR if I needed to meet him. I held his hand and talked to him until he quit struggling, gave way. As he was slipping away....I WAS. i was there and felt... Doesn't matter, I can only hope someone would do the same for me.

Pop culture. Hmmm...impaired. i could appreciate seinfeld, but didn't find it especially funny. However, time in the mpls was ruled by underground music that is unparalleled anywhere else i've been. THAT is very lovely to me indeed!

and just in case i don't make the next round, cheers! life's to fragile to take for granted.

Laurisa, you too. Don't be too fragile, and get in touch when you come back into town. I'll make you a margarita and we can argue about local bands. :)

http://almostdiamonds.blogspot.com/2008/05/perfect-margaritas.html

And I suspect "barbaric" was chosen to speak to people without your perspective. Somehow, I don't think you needed the lesson.

Mz. Z: I appreciate that. ALL of it. Find you when I get back into the States. I'll be needing that margarita...and some good conversation>...

Geesh...so much for empathy on the east coast. What insanity! At a minimum someone should have attempted to reassure the victim that people were there and help was on the way. I can't imagine how this person might have felt if they were actually capable of comprehending the indifference of those people staring and gesturing at him like a wounded dog.

I've experienced accidents like this in the Midwest and this video is in now way indicative to the reactions of the Samaritans nearby.

In Arkansas, my husband and I were about the only people who "got" Seinfeld. We think it was a hilariously funny show, but In Real Life, if we meet people who are that...... well, empty, we avoid them. Still, they were funny. On another note, if 10 Christians stood there and did nothing, were there not 10 other people, non-Christians, who also stood there and did nothing. Atheists, as an example of one other group, claim to have all the morals of Christians, but that's obviously not a discussion for the here or now. HOw is the hit and run victim doing, do we know?

On another note, if 10 Christians stood there and did nothing, were there not 10 other people, non-Christians, who also stood there and did nothing.

Unless that city block happened to be located in the "Atheist" section of town (rolling eyes), applying the average religiosity in the US would indicate that more than 8 of the 10 people standing around there are Christians while less than two are non-believers.

Miss Agent, I'm not aware of any evidence that atheists would on average be more helpful. Also, this doesn't have much to do with religion anyways; humans suck pretty badly. There have been psych studies using people pretending to be injured which show that one of the main determinants of whether people will try to intervene is if other people are intervening.

I just heard George Will say that conservatives believe people should be allowed to fend for themselves so I guess the bystanders are Republicans just being true to their ideology.

Unless that city block happened to be located in the "Atheist" section of town (rolling eyes), applying the average religiosity in the US would indicate that more than 8 of the 10 people standing around there are Christians while less than two are non-believers.

Um, actually someone else suggested the 50% figure, see above. I believe it was 50 to 70% he said. Anyway, non-Christian does not mean atheist, it just means anything else. His point was that of 20 people standing there, the 10 who were probably Christians were failing in their Christian duty, or being hypocrites. I just mean what about the others? What should they do? Berate the Christians? Or "Xtians", if that is the preferred term. I agree with the one who suggested that they were just conservatives, letting him (the accident victim) fend for himself the best he could. Especially if he is a Veteran! "Yeah, take me to Walter Reed......NOT"

"Second, it is abundantly obvious that a couple of people could have gone out into t he street and made sure the poor sap did not get run over again."

Being in EMS, I'd be simultaneously grateful and scared, because if this guy's Cervical spine was damaged, moving him in any way other than dragging him by the shoulders would probably paralyze him.

"If there was arterial bleeding (maybe unlikely in this case but maybe not) you stop that with pressure."

Yes, but in the case of arterial bleeding, you're better off applying pressure to the wound and to a pressure point closer to the torso.

"In a very similar situation I observed some years back, the victim had both a head injury and a seizure. So holding the individual still so that the seizure does not further damage the head/neck is, while difficult, not a bad idea."

Generally, seizure cases can't wrench their neck on their own, so it's better to get stuff out of their way, and lay them on their side when their done seizing, so their airway isn't compromised. The combination of those two is something that I'd not like to see.

"You can see if the person is conscious. A conscious person may be able to tell you things that you should relay to the EMT's when they arrive after the victim has lost consciousness."

A great truth is spoken here.

I'm not aware of any evidence that atheists would on average be more helpful.

Right-o, sorry if I wasn't clear there because I'm not either. I was simply referring to average religious affiliation demographic as applied in the US. If 10 people are standing there watching, 2 of them are atheist -on average.

Here's an update on the guy. It's not pretty, he's paralyzed from the neck down.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25013582/

With no audio, it's unclear whether anyone is communicating with the victim.

Conn. has a Good Samaritan law, what it appears to lack are trained first responders. In a similar instance in Phoenix, by the time I could get the car turned around and get back to the scene, others had traffic stopped, 911 called and were staring at the victim wondering what to do. My only problem after that was fending off a passing nurse who freaked at the bleeding scalp wound and tried to knock my out of a proper C-spine chin lift so she could stop a trickle of blood.

Unless they have some sort of medical experience, what the hell are they supposed to do?

Well, for starters, stop your vehicle and hit the hazards in order to stop anyone else from hitting him. Also, ALL witnesses should have stopped and waited for the police. Going over and telling the guy that help is on it's way might be a nice gesture, too.

Thundering f*ck, people.

One day, I was walking down the street in Kansas City with a couple of my aunts. It was during Irish Fest-- lots of families around. Well, just a freak accident, a hubcap flew off a car driving by, and hit a little girl in the head ~20 feet in front of us. She was out, cold. Mom and Dad were screaming, trying to kill the driver (who stopped), it took 15 seconds, but it was insanity.

Im a very level headed person in crazy situations, but I was so shocked at what I just saw it took me a minute to get my wits back.

So the best thing to do when you see something like this is to think out what *you* would do if this happened, so you could go to that immediately. I will probably sprint down the sidewalk to get as many license plate numbers as I can.

My first reaction was that this was a pair of gang bangers or teenagers doing the typical thing.

I agree that the behavior of the hit-and-run drivers was strange and suspicious, but I wouldn't assume they were gang-bangers or teenagers. My vote for the "Most Likely to Run Over a Child, Jogger, Wheelchair Athlete, or Dog/Cat" in my suburban neighborhood goes to soccer moms with SUVs, and to business dads with Mustangs or 300Ms. Both act as if they feel cheated in the penis department (size, or having one at all), and therefore bought a mechanical one to swing at the world.

Re Seinfeld: I've never been to NYC, but I thought the program was pretty funny. In large part, it's about self-absorption, which is widespread in the US. All of the Seinfeld characters were extremely self-absorbed. The one character I found to be totally unrealistic was George...looks aside, he had far too many romantic involvements for a guy with such a rotten personality. Not funny, not smart, not capable, totally self-involved and immature.

Laurisa: I reserve the term "barbaric" for Connecticut and use different terms for equatorial regions, for anthropological reasons. That choice is pure politics but that does not make it unimportant.

In truth, "barbaric" simply means "the others that we are not sure are humans" coming from ADL/Greek for "bla bla bla ... We can't understand what is coming out of their mouths"

The margaritas at Pepitos are good too

MissAgentGirl: My experience in the upper midwest is that the victim is trying to beat the Samaritans off with a stick because there are so many of them.

Barn owl: I threw in the teenagers to seem less hard on the gang bangers. Go to Hartford for a week. Then look at the video . They were gang bangers.

Lynn: The victim was very severely injured, and is paralyzed. He may be a paraplegic or quadrupedal now according to a news report I saw on Friday.

The response time of the police in this case is unmeasured as the cop you see in the video happened on the scene (did someone mention that above).

One news article said that an angle they were investigating was that the first car was being chased by the second - that would describe the reckless passing of the other cars and the cutting down the side street, and if I were the first driver and there was a reason to be really scared, that explains (but not excuses) why the first car didn't stop.

hmm...haven't yet been to Connecticut, so your strange gLaden logic will have to suffice until i have some visibility on the subject. I'm tabling that one--I've seen too much now.

I am curious how you describe other locales. Perhaps Pepitos is a venue to consider? you know, where a bunch of red letter A-people can spar in intellectual drink offs and such? the countdown is 10 daze.

Well, if Greg wants to join the party, Pepitos isn't a bad choice, even if the margaritas aren't perfect. L, do you need us to wrangle any particular people for you, or do they just flock when you announce?

Oh, and at least as far as I'm concerned, you've got a choice between the intellectual and the drink-off. :)

ah-right, ah-right, ah-right. all we need now is 2 way radio, rope, and some limes!!!!!

BRING 'EM ALL>...never know who comes in handy when you want to conquer the world!

Mz. Z: i used "drink" instead of "jack" for an obvious reason. i am an equal opportunist.

I hate to ask what "two way radio" is a euphemism for...

Do we have proposals of dates and times? And places? (Pepitos is fine but need not be the only option. Azia is good too, or the Black Forest)

The 17th is the only day in the rest of June that I have a commitment I can't blow off for this, including "school nights." Suggest away, people.

Greg, should we be arranging a notary?