Florida Man with No Background in Science Determines that Creationism is a Valid Theory for How Life Got There and What it Is

Ray M. Davis, Jr., of Alachua also admits that his religious beliefs tell him that creationism is true, but despite this admission he still feels that his local school board should ruin science education for all the children in his local public school by ramming their non scientific beliefs down the throats of the students in science class. Oh, and he must also think his school district has a grove of money trees, because the legal defense when they do follow such nonsensical advice and get snagged ... and yes, we are watching ... will be substantial.

Read this remarkable story from the Gainesville Sun here. You might also want to write your own letter to the editor at the Sun, and while you're at it, you might want to suggest that from a journalistic point of view, publishing letters like this one from Mr. Davis is roughly like publishing letters that suggest that Bigfoot be covered in the local high school's Zoology Class and that the Geography Class must include the Flat Earth theory, and the physical science class should cover Alchemy. (Roughly. Not exactly. Analogies are not exact, else they would not be analogies.) Mr. Davis is certainly entitled to his uniformed opinion, but the primary institutions of our nation, like schools, newspapers, etc. have a responsibility to be more selective than the Gainesville Sun appears to be.

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Do you have to pick on alchemy? It was my best class and now my homunculus has crawled into its little house and won't come out.

By Prometheus (not verified) on 30 Aug 2010 #permalink

He wants it taught because so many people believe in it? Okay, as long as we also teach the Hindu creation stories.

Wow, that was a painful read. Hopefully the school board will ignore the comments of someone who clearly has only a rudimentary grasp of his native language.

Rather than suggesting alternatives to zoology and geography, which most people don't care about, how about suggesting alternatives to football? It is narrow-minded to arbitrarily exclude more than one football in play at a time, or to rule out the possibility that the team with the fewest points could be the winner. Why precisely ten yards for a first down: nine yards or eleven yards are just as good.
A closer analogy to creationism is Calvinball. Time-fracture wickets performing the function corresponding to design.

Notice it's in the 'sports' section?

By Rich Wilson (not verified) on 30 Aug 2010 #permalink

"what is the likely hood"??
uh, cracker alley seems likely...

what a dumbass!!!

By occamseraser (not verified) on 30 Aug 2010 #permalink

The Gainesville Sun does have an obligation to warn those of us living in its circulation area that the Dove World Outreach Center (newly infamous for their plan to burn a Koran on 9/11) are not the only gibbering lunatics in the region.

For the record: all but one of the several creationists running for the local school board were defeated in last week's election, and the sole survivor is in a runoff with an intelligent pro-science candidate, to be decided in November.

By Pierce R. Butler (not verified) on 30 Aug 2010 #permalink

For the record: all but one of the several creationists running for the local school board were defeated in last week's election, and the sole survivor is in a runoff with an intelligent pro-science candidate, to be decided in November.

Is the pro-science candidate asking for donations?

By Mal Adapted (not verified) on 30 Aug 2010 #permalink

Just state the following: For the purposes of this class we will assume that God (should she/he exist) does not intervene in the world in any way manner shape or form. This will be a base postulate of our course. If you want to study a world where there is divine intervention, go elsewhere. Once you allow divine intervention of course then Creationism becomes just trying to figure out what the deity did. Since all have different experiences of the deity, and different revelations any theory you like goes if you allow intervention. Since a world where anything goes means everything is ok, there is nothing more to learn in taking that assumption.

I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, um, some people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, South Africa and, uh, the Iraq and everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should, uh, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, should help South Africa and should help Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future.

Ray M. Davis, Jr.,


You do not need a "science" background to use common sense and know that we were created, not evolved. Apes? please! We were created different from all other creatures for a special purpose. Apes do not have a soul, humans do. Apes are not accountable unto God, man is. Deal with the facts people.

New findings find flaws in old earth dating methods

Fema camp prisoner, The swamp juice may have gone to your brain. you post leaves me undecided whether you are serious or engaged in satire, though when it come to new age creationists it is very hard to produce satire that is any funnier than the product. Anyway on the off chance that you are serious, here is a primer so you can argue coherently.


I would indeed be very interesting if it were to turn out that radioactive isotope decay rates varied in a way that related to interaction with other matter or energy. Of course, the papers referred to speak of extraordinarily small numbers. There ain't no way you're gonna get 14 billion to turn into 5000 on this basis.

@13: You left an "L" off your html, which Fema Camp Woo will probably just take as a sign from God that we shouldn't be reading such blasphemy in the first place.

However, after much labor, prayer, supplication, and 40 minutes in the dessert (i.e., eating some Ben & Jerry's while watching most of SportsCenter), I managed to circumvent the one-and-only-true-all-knowing-and-all-powerful God by adding an "L" at the end of the link:


This, of course, begs the question: Can God create a 404 so big that Jesus can't link to it?

What to do about this:

If the creationists rationalize themselves with the "academic freedom" arguement and in particular the "teach all sides of the question" arguement, then demand the teaching of MARXISM in economics & history classes.

OTOH it might also be interesting to go into the rightie-wingers' extremist churches and start demanding the teaching of evolution in their Sunday school classes. Do it loud & proud, on a war footing, with a no-compromise attitude that mirrors the fundies' attitudes in the school board meetings. Eventually arrive at a compromise, thusly: "We'll stop disrupting your church services and you stop disrupting our educational system. Deal?"

@sailor & Greg,
Respectfully, it is clear from your dismissive comments that you are unaware of the bona fide scientific credentials of one Mr. Kyle Butt, M.A., the author of the groundbreaking scientific paper to which Fema Camp Prisoner #176-167 provides a link in his (or her) comment.
As Mr. Butt's CV demonstrates, (http://www.apologeticspress.org/staff/kb) not only does he hold a B.A. with a double major in Bible and communications, but he also holds an M.A. in New Testament, both from Freed-Hardeman University, where one can study biology in a spirit of free inquiry unobstructed by the cumbersome impediments of the unproven "scientific" "theory" "of" "evolution."
However, because of Mr. Butt's advanced education and training and fundamental understanding of God's Truth and Plan For Us All, it is not necessary for him to have any training or formal education in "science" in order for him to reveal "the pseudo-science of evolutionary propaganda" (http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/240423).
If you are still skeptical of Mr. Butt's scientific expertise, a simple look at a list of just his recent scientific publications - some of which cite as many as four references - will quickly erase any doubts:

Origin of Life Drowned In Lake of False Assumptions
Shubinâs Subtly Deceptive âGill Archesâ
Flood Carves a Channel Through Uniformitarian Ideas
Falsely Equating Similarity With History
A Soulâs Salvation Could Hinge On the Earthâs Age
Dawkinsâ Indirect Scientific Inference

Mr. Butt's expose on deceptive gill arches alone is more than enough proof that evolution is not scientific, but in addition to these definitive refudiations of "the pseudo-science of evolutionary propaganda," Mr. Butt serves in the Bible department at Apologetics Press and also as editor of Discovery, "a colorful monthly magazine on Scripture and science for kids" (http://www.discoverymagazine.com/about.html#what). Discovery is not limited by the narrow definition of "science" commonly used by "scientists," but instead is committed to the mission of teaching children that "science" isn't just about "evidence," as described in the website's FAQ section:

Science is our main focus, but we run the gamut from archaeology to ethics to miracles. The point of each issue is to build and reinforce Christian faith.

Thus Discovery magazine focuses on a broad range of subjects, tackling both science and miracles with equal dexterity, and features articles on a variety of scientific topics, from God's design of the vertebrate skeleton to God's design of bumblebees to God's design of the snake, and even God's design of the universe. Not to mention God's design of dragons, God's design of eagles, and God's design of whales. Discovery has also featured articles which:

Showed that the "theory" of evolution is so weak that it can be easily disproved by a single quote by one scientist ("What concrete evidence supports that remarkable theory [evolution] of the origin of life? There is none." -Robert Jastrow.

Provided incontrovertible proof that "Evolution is Against the Law!"

Systematically dismantled Hume's empiricism in four paragraphs ("MR. HUME TRIES TO "PULL A FAST ONE" by Trevor Major http://www.discoverymagazine.com/articles/d2000/d0002e.htm)

Additional Discovery articles include:

"The Dead Will Rise!"
"Did Jesus Just Faint?"
"Let's Hear It For Hair!"
"Something Can't Come From Nothing"
"What Use is the Old Testament Anyway?"

But Mr. Butt's expertise and analytical skills are not limited to the sciences; his writings have also addressed political and economy concerns ("Defending the Bibleâs Position on Slavery"), current events ("Was Moses on Drugs?"), and thorny philosophical questions ("The Problem of Evil"). What's more, his analysis of The Problem of Evil provides a definitive answer to a question others have struggled to address for centuries in under 4,000 words!

I hope that this information has been useful to you, and I pray that God will guide you in seeing that Mr. Butt's scientific analysis can lift the veil of scientific ignorance that is keeping you from seeing the True scientific Truth that is right before you but that you cannot see because of the whole veil thing.

May Mr. Butt be the vessel through which God's knowledge flows unto you.

Or, just do what happened: Decide in federal court that "teaching the controversy" is "teaching religion."

Tuco @18:

Great post -- I had no idea that was the origin of the expression "to pull something out of one's Butt"...

Mr. Davis is certainly entitled to his uniformed opinion...
Uniformed? Or uninformed?

Ah, of course the creationists have to deny that radioisotope dating works - otherwise they'd have to admit that god is a dumbass and doesn't even know how old the universe is. Well, it's that or god's an asshole faking things to get us to believe that the universe is older than it really is. Then again we know from astronomy that god is an asshole who's created stars with light already arriving at the earth just so we'd think that the universe must be extremely old based on the estimate of astronomical distances and the speed of light (which has still not been demonstrated to change in a vacuum).

By MadScientist (not verified) on 30 Aug 2010 #permalink

I just wonder if Mr. Butts has examined the Ussher method of non-radioactive dating and found it incontrovertible. Because, you know, one second off from its claimed accuracy and creationism is toast.

Tuco @18: excellent post. LOL

Ronald Reagan once said "It's morning in America". The seeming electability of Ms S. Palin, and the strong urge to "Teach the controversy", are two signs that America's reign is over, and the sun is setting.

Once you institutionalise stupidity and ignorance, the end is becoming visible.