I remember Federal Way! It was just up the hill from where I grew up, and although it was never a destination of interest, we would pass through its majestic strip malls on the way to Dash Point or Saltwater State Park. Now Federal Way is in the news as a haven for a few wingnuts. I can't say I'm terribly surprised, but this one does express a point of view I find both novel and incoherent.
They're protesting the showing of Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth in the schools up there. I could understand the complaints if they were objecting to the presentation of a partisan campaign film for a presidential candidate (there is a bit too much of that in the movie), but they don't—they never seem to find that angle troubling. Instead, the vomit all over the science, the part that's pretty darn good and unobjectionable.
This is the quote that is so strangely wacky.
"Condoms don't belong in school, and neither does Al Gore. He's not a schoolteacher," said Frosty Hardison, a parent of seven who also said that he believes the Earth is 14,000 years old. "The information that's being presented is a very cockeyed view of what the truth is. ... The Bible says that in the end times everything will burn up, but that perspective isn't in the DVD."
Whoa.
"Frosty"? Will he disappear come the spring?
I don't know why condoms come up in the discussion, but a parent of seven might have benefited from a little instruction in their use back in high school.
It's also strange to object that Gore is "not a schoolteacher". He taught college! Hardison isn't a teacher (he's an "information technology consultant", and from the sound of it, a professional pompous pain in the ass), but he seems to think he can issue proclamations about pedagogy.
I'm fascinated by his date. It's curious enough that he presents his bizarre and irrelevant opinions on geology as if perversity is a credential (actually, not an uncommon phenomenon in the crackpot category), but usually, the biblical chronologists will tell you it's around 6,000 years, or under 10,000. 14,000 is weird enough to not only annoy rational people, but to alienate many of his fellow fringe kooks.
And the real kicker: it sounds as if he isn't objecting to the interpretation of global warming, it's that we aren't giving enough credit to the biblical prophecies he has invented that support it. That's a new one to me; are there many freaky Christians running around claiming, "global warming is real, and god is doing it to punish you"?
His wife expresses the other side of the usual denialist motive: unthinking patriotism. Love of country means never, ever criticizing anything ever done by it (or, more accurately, anything supported by its businesses and more conservative denizens. It's still patriotic to slam the damn dirty hippies.)
"From what I've seen (of the movie) and what my husband has expressed to me, if (the movie) is going to take the approach of 'bad America, bad America,' I don't think it should be shown at all," Gayle Hardison said. "If you're going to come in and just say America is creating the rotten ruin of the world, I don't think the video should be shown."
Scientists say that Americans, with about 5 percent of the world's population, emit about 25 percent of the globe-warming gases.
So, what has she seen of the movie? It sounds like she hasn't actually seen much of it at all, but is going by reports and short clips and of course, what dear old Frosty tells her. Typical. It's also a nonsensical objection: if America does something bad, we're not allowed to discuss it because, well, it's America? How about if we criticized China for doing the same thing?
Now I'm wondering—I've got family living just a few miles east of Federal Way, and there have to be similar crazies afflicting the school district there. Would the family tell me about it? Or would they hide the story from me out of fear that I'd come out there and embarrass them publicly? (Although, I confess, there was also one member of my family who'd probably have gotten along well with ol' Frosty…).
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The date 14,000 years is probably the end of the ice age, which, as we all know, was caused by the cow Audhumla licking the ice off of the frost giant Ymir and forming the fist man, Buri. It all makes sense if we assume that his "Bible" is the Elder Edda. I'm sure you noticed, in your youth, that you cant swing a stinking badger in these parts with out hitting a Nowegian.
"That's a new one to me; are there many freaky Christians running around claiming, "global warming is real, and god is doing it to punish you"?"
There are some nuts that think destroying the environment, war, and overall destruction will actually hasten the "end-times", the president of Iran being one of them (I think Bush made some allusions to similar "revelation ready"-type statement, although I'll have to track them down). What's more worrying to me are the fence-sitters who say "Well, God's in control so he designed [there's that word again] the world to withstand what we do to it, so everything will be ok." When such a phrase is uttered I typically go in search of the nearest claw hammer to see if I can knock anything loose in the poor persons head.
I gabbed this off a comment in the article - kind of ironic.
I suppose Frosty "Eat-and-Breed" Hardison also feels students don't belong in school--after all, they're not schoolteachers either. (Wonder if he home-schools the litter.)
Frosty Hardison is apparently also a PowerPoint fetishist.
Sounds like one of those professional NIMBYs that love to just irk and annoy the citizenry. We had tons of them where I grew up (Northern NJ). However, none took the time to lovingly craft a global warming denying PowerPoint presentation. Frosty's in a class all by himself.
What's puzzling me still is the comparison. How is Al Gore like a condom? Is he thin-skinned, transparent, and frequently used to cover a dick?
Sounds more like Cheney than Gore.
PZ:are there many freaky Christians running around claiming, "global warming is real, and god is doing it to punish you"?
Well, there weren't until you mentioned it. Now there will be. Thanks a lot.
"The requirement to represent another side follows district policy to represent both sides of a controversial issue, board President Ed Barney said........
Asked whether an alternative explanation for evolution should be presented by teachers, Barney said it would be appropriate to tell students that other beliefs exist. "It's only a theory," he said."
THIS stupidity was siad by the school board president??!???? How do these idiots get jobs within teaching positions? This guys position needs to be highlited for all to see. I believed Kansas had the crazies, not my state.
David Larson is a coward for not standing up to Frosty the Dimwit.
We've got kooks here in Australia too: Here's what Cardinal George Pell thinks about global warming:
* http://www.sydney.catholic.org.au/Archbishop/Addresses/200627_681.shtml
"From what I've seen (of the movie)
And how much would that be?
and what my husband has expressed to me,
Oh, now we're getting somewhere!
if (the movie) is going to take the approach of 'bad America, bad America,' I don't think it should be shown at all," Gayle Hardison said.
Of course, when Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson say, "Bad America, bad America" regarding gay marriage, 9-11, feminism, the teaching of evolution in schools, women playing chess, etc., that's perfectly okay.
Did we see the same movie?
I don't remember any such thing.
Davis Larson needs to update his web page:
Dave sees his role on the school board as a trustee of the interests of parents, students, and teachers moronic wingnuts. He believes that the three-way partnership between parent, student, and teacher is the key to preparing our young people for long-term success in their lives. What Frosty says goes.
http://www.fwps.org/info/board/members/memberlarson.html
Whoops, that's David Larson.
No! you've misunderestimated Frosty! What he's really trying to say is that like Al Gore, condoms should not be used to instruct our yoot about global warming.
That's not too surprising, actually. One of the quirky features of the documentary/education genre of movies is that they try fairly hard to exclude statements or ideas that are blatantly, objectively false in every conceivable way.
Just a thought.
Obviously. As every schoolchild knows, divinely-ordained American laws strictly prohibit any speech or expression that reflects negatively on America, even if it's just a little bit. Unfortunately, the punishment is still only public ridicule. It ought to be death, of course.
Not only that, but America has never, ever done anything even slightly wrong -- not one tiny little thing -- so it's just plain wrong, anyway.
Rocky,
Being an educator is not a requirement for the elected office of school board trustee. Maybe WA has such a requirement but I sincerely doubt it. Usually the only requirement is being a registered voter who lives in district. That's how I became a school board member here in IL.
There is no secret to making bad policy. School board members are just members of the community. One has to be able to get a simple majority for your ideas to have sway. If the creationist crowd gets 4 out of 7 members elected then crazy stuff like ID being taught as science in schools ends up as policy.
It very much ends up a local issue. Crucifixes and lists of the ten commandments are on the walls of many a public school, blessed by board fiat or their benign inaction. (This was told to me by a school board member from a southern state while I was attending a National School Board Association Annual Conference. They had them up in their schools.) If the community makes no stink about it not much can be done.
The key is to always have some sane person running against the creationist...never let the creationist run unopposed.
"Frosty" is the reception such opinions deserve. (In this context), WHO CARES if the Bible says that in the end times the world will burn up? Al wasn't making a documentary about the end times, but about the present and near future.
And in any case, it's irrelevant anyway. Should a Nature documentary about rabbits state, contrary to the evidence, that they chew the cud--just because it says so in Leviticus?
No, it's a pretty boring date. The last ice age ended 11,500 years ago.
"Frosty" is the reception such opinions deserve. (In this context), WHO CARES if the Bible says that in the end times the world will burn up? Al wasn't making a documentary about the end times, but about the present and near future.
And in any case, it's irrelevant anyway. Should a Nature documentary about rabbits state, contrary to the evidence, that they chew the cud--just because it says so in Leviticus?
"Frosty" is the reception such opinions deserve. (In this context), WHO CARES if the Bible says that in the end times the world will burn up? Al wasn't making a documentary about the end times, but about the present and near future.
And in any case, it's irrelevant anyway. Should a Nature series about rabbits state, contrary to the evidence, that rabbits chew the cud--just because it says so in Leviticus?
Well, it is Federal Way.
(disclaimer: I grew up just outside the even more armpittish Auburn.)
"Frosty" is a pedigreed wingnut. But the real villain in this event are school board member, David Larson (a lawyer who should know better) who proposed the moratorium on showing ACT (An Inconvenient Truth) so they could foster "open debate" [between fact and fantasy], the board's president, Ed Barney, who subscribes to the theory that evolution is "only a theory," and their supporters on the board. They are raising that old bugaboo, balance--must balance any facts with my fantasies. Maybe Larson and Barney work for or support the DI.
The last ice age ended 11,500 years ago.
That probably depends on where you are when you measure when the ice age ended. Is there a geologist or paleontologist here who can tell me when the last ice age ended, based on some globally-applicable principle, like "it ended when the glaciers paused in their retreat" or "it ended when the rate of glacial retreat was maximal" or "it ended when a key geographic feature (Bering land bridge, UK connected to Europe, western Indonesia connected to Asia, etc) returned to a warm-period state"?
Up* here in Canada, there are places that probably didn't have the ice come off them until thousands of years after places like Minnesota were human-habitable.
The crack-pot 14,000 year thing probably came from some fevered dream or youthful pharmacological indiscretion.
*using words like "up" and "down" as substitutes for "north" and "south" bugs me, but I still do it.
Hey, ifriit, I grew up in Kent, and I have a bunch of brothers and sisters and my mother currently living in Auburn. What's the matter? You don't like car dealerships and trailer parks?
And if Auburn's an armpit, what does that say about Kent? When I was young and we wanted something to do, we'd get on our bikes and cycle 5 or 6 miles to Auburn to find real thrills. Kent was dead.
Admittedly, during my years there, Kent was dead too, primarily of interest to industry and not much else. But there's a special something about Auburn that will make it eternally more awful to my mind. Anything interesting was to be found in Federal Way, or even better, Tukwila; everything neat in Auburn shut down while I was in high school and college. Heck, even Puyallup became someplace to go in comparison.
Thankfully, I was on Lake Tapps before it had many residents, so there were plenty of interesting things to do outside for a kid. Though in retrospect I'm amazed I survived it so physically unscathed.
Oh, no--I just thought of something--what's going to happen to this distinguished resident of my hometown?
Frosty, meet the "Stucco Man." (Doesn't that sound like a good horror flick title?)
I'm sorry that I do not have time right now to read all of the comments, but I just wanted to say that the fundies are right to be scared of "An Inconvenient Truth." I'm a former fundie who's deconversion was finalized after watching this movie, and deciding that if the Creation and Fall of Man myths were true, things should look a lot different geologically. Either that, or God is an incredible deceiver.
Thanks Willy, I knew that "anyone" could be elected, (been watching Kansas closely). It just pisses me off such stupidity, (it's only a theory?!?) can be allowed to represent our children, especially so close to home. You are absolutely right, never let a fundie run unopposed.
I guess Mr. Hardison does not want to stop "the end times" for his seven children.
It's curious enough that he presents his bizarre and irrelevant opinions on geology as if perversity is a credential (actually, not an uncommon phenomenon in the crackpot category) . . .
Wingnuts do tons of bone-stupid (or as you put it, perverse) things to avoid being "politically correct"--"politically correct" being whatever other wingnuts tell them is popular among progressives.(1)
Part of the degeneration of conservativism. Whatever the word used to stand for, it no longer means anything on its own; its adherents define themselves solely by how much they hate the Left. It's like a political minus sign.
(1) Ex: fear of giving in to political correctness seems to make it harder for 'wingers to quit smoking than it is for normal people.
I think Gayle needs to get hit by the intelligence stick, and not because she's a blind patriot, but because that she lets her husband dictate what she thinks. His frontal lobe isn't directly connected to hers in any way, so why should it govern how she thinks?
To pull a Pat Robertson, they're bringing disaster upon themselves.
Federal Way High School's Debate Tournament (one of the largest in the state), scheduled for this weekend, was just cancelled due to snow and ice.
So not only did Mr. Frosty prevent an educational movie from playing, but he also stopped a debate tournament (topic: corporate morality, of all things) from happening. That man is a menace to the thinking world... where will he stop?
Karma's a bitch, and so is Mother Nature.
Hello PZ and ifriit, I GRADUATED from Federal Way High Scool and lived a stone's throw from Dash Point State Park, back when there were more trees than subdivisions. I was unaware of your similar geographical background. Small world! So imagine my dismay to wake up to this story on the front page of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer (PI) this AM, and on my birthday nonetheless. Several points: the comments on the article on the PI web site are fascinating; see(http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/soundoff/comment.asp?articleID=299253), and reassuring for the most part. And I agree with several commentors above that the real travesty is the response of the School Board to this nut. Secondly, online comments on the PI article mention the Kansas pro-creationist school board and denigrate that fair state by comparison to Federal Way. Ironically, of course, the troglodytes in Kansas have been replaced- would hope that we can do that here. There will be considerable support for their replacement, I'm sure, given the pitchfork and torch-bearing commentators. Teach the controversy, my ass- how in the world will the poorly served students of my alma mater even evaluate the REST of the news in yesterdays PI, which has at least ten articles related to global warming, including both a lead article on the payments from EXXON to anti-global warming "researchers" and an opinion piece, an editorial and letters!
A look at the comments on the PI page shows that "Frosty"has turned up and claimed he was misrepresented by the reporter. He refers to his notes of the conversation - at:
http://www.geocities.com/f_Hardison/solutionsstarthere.doc
and goes on to ask his interloctuors to imagien what id was like 6,000 years ago, before the flood, when C14 didn't exist...
Seriously I'm not making this up; he really should learn Dennis Healey's First law of Holes - when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to is STOP DIGGING!
David Horsey of the PI has responded:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=1529
...and I really should learn to use the speelchucker before posting...
The Hardisons are a loud bunch in FW. Visit the city website, and look for the videos of city council meetings. They make frequent appearances. One appearance I had the (mis)fortune of seeing personally was when the wife came with a handmade sandwich board berating a street beggar, whom she had obsessively followed around, and caught him hitting the casino. And with such an unmanageably big family, they get the bonus of being able to stack the speakers list.
Controversy erupted during the school board elections a year or so ago when it was pointed out that three of the board members (all reelected) go to the same LDS church. As do, it's worth noting IMO, the Hardisons. Apparently, being in the same church -- not, you know, being remotely right or credible -- allows you to define Federal Way education.
here's the email I sent th Fed Way District Superintendent (tmurphy@fwps.org), School Board (schoolboard@fwps.org, ed-barney@fwps.org, Charles-Hoff@fwps.org, evelyn-castellar@fwps.org, tmadden@fwps.org, Dave-Larson@fwps.org), and every one of their Principals and Vice Principals. I post it here so you can conveniently use the email addresses for your own correspondence to them.
Rob
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Regarding "An Inconvenient Truth"
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007
From: Rob
To: tmurphy@fwps.org, schoolboard@fwps.org, ed-barney@fwps.org, Charles-Hoff@fwps.org, evelyn-castellar@fwps.org, tmadden@fwps.org, Dave-Larson@fwps.org, jason-smith@fwps.org, chris-odell@fwps.org, paul-marquardt@fwps.org, Margot-Hightower@fwps.org, dholt@fwps.org, kay-nilsen@fwps.org, kristi-white@fwps.org, jeff-soltez@fwps.org, Doug-Rutherford@fwps.org, cindy-kelsey@fwps.org, kent-cross@fwps.org, Cindy-Black@fwps.org, cindy-dracobly@fwps.org, rudy-baca@fwps.org, john-trujillo@fwps.org, Barbara-Bergman@fwps.org, michael-swartz@fwps.org, judy-lemmel@fwps.org, tom-capp@fwps.org, guy-gamble@fwps.org, marie-verhaar@fwps.org, maggie-o'sullivan@fwps.org, Donna-Bogle@fwps.org, stacy-lucasl@fwps.org, chris-brauer@fwps.org, Deb-Brewer@fwps.org, colin-falk@fwps.org, pam-tuggle@fwps.org, michael-robinson@fwps.org, kurt-lauer@fwps.org, randy-kaczor@fwps.org, eric-dickinson@fwps.org, damon-hunter@fwps.org, dave-cordell@fwps.org, mark-demick@fwps.org, patty-elmer@fwps.org, jeanette-bullock@fwps.org, letitia-reid-nnanabu@fwps.org, tom-leacy@fwps.org, judy-seiwearth@fwps.org, kevin-ikeda@fwps.org, lisa-griebel@fwps.org, shay-short@fwps.org, jerry-warren@fwps.org, mike-conrath@fwps.org, mark-marshall@fwps.org, justin-smith@fwps.org, wayne-brown@fwps.org, joshua-garcia@fwps.org, vince-blauser@fwps.org, margaret-peterson@fwps.org, regina-hauptmann@fwps.org, david-brower@fwps.org, stuart-crisman@fwps.org, ron-mayberry@fwps.org
Dear Federal Way School Officials,
I read with interest your decision to prohibit the viewing of Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" in your school district, and I would like for you to consider my observation on this issue.
Namely, that your district leadership has an overabundance of spineless ass-monkeys who can't recognize scientific evidence if it came up and slapped you in the head. If your district won't quit bending over for Frosty the Moonbat and grow a pair, then all I can say is God help your students. I just pray that some tragic event doesn't befall me that I would ever have to move my family into your school district.
Sincerely,
Rob J.
Seattle
PS, if you haven't already started one, please look into instituting a condom distribution program. There are apparently a number of people in your district that need to be discouraged from procreating to every extent possible.
We can't let ignorance drive school curriculum. Perhaps it would be more appropriate for teachers to use the curriculum provided by our own government:
Environmental Protection Agency's site on global warming for kids and teachers:
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/wycd/school.html
You deserve the truth, but something tells me I am wasting my time on you losers. From what I understand, the PI reporter knew that Hardison's views had nothing to do with the decision yet reported as such knowing that you would jump just like you did. You have been duped by the PI into a group think reaction. Welcome to the Kool-Aid vat.
Your opposition to what these guys did means that you believe that the only thing kids should watch about global warming is An Inconvenient Truth. Is that what you really think? Here is the whole story based upon a reply I received from Larson himself. Read it and weep at what pathetic people you are for believing everything you read. I hope it scares you that you could be the next Nazis for your group think closeminded stupidity. Use the actual science to teach kids instead of a politician you idiots.
Here it is:
Due to the volume of interest in this matter I am using auto-reply to get you the quickest reply possible because your concerns about what we did are important. I write this intending to express my own views and not the views of other board members. I will not be replying to your replies.
Some of the media has not reported this matter accurately and I wanted to make sure the issues and our decision were clear to you. Feel free to share this with others who are concerned.
1. We did not make the decision based upon Mr. Hardison's religious or other beliefs. The decision was made because a teacher was going to show the movie and it did not appear she was following policy. It turned out that she was not following policy. There was also an offer last week by the proponents of the movie to give 50,000 copies to teachers across the country to use as curriculum, which would have increased the chance that the movie would be used. There was more than one complaint/concern expressed about this issue based upon that alone.
2. We did not ban or censor the movie and have no intent to do so. Teachers can use it as they see fit if they follow policy on movies and controversial issues, but because there was some misunderstanding on the policy we asked that the Superintendent be involved in making sure policy was being followed. One of our high schools has already used the movie. The students were asked to take a side, research the issues, and then debate the issues from that standpoint. What they did goes above and beyond the policy in my opinion.
3. We are not banning the teaching of global warming.
4. The debate on global warming is crucial to society and limiting the debate to only one side's view of the facts and science would not be good for anyone even if they believe the debate is over.
5. Our policies are designed to make sure that the door is open for more debate on issues, not less, but it does not mean as some allege that any wacko theory can be taught in our schools.
6. The decision was made upon existing policy. It was not based on anyone's direct belief regarding politics, science, religion, or when the earth was formed or when it will end.
7. Policy 2331 and 2331P (see below) is intended to prevent one-sided views of controversial issues.
8. There was more than one complaint/concern expressed about this issue.
9. The policy should be equally enforced regardless of what side of the spectrum any controversial issue falls upon. This protects the integrity of the education process. We would have made the same decision if the movie was about the Iraq war or some other issue and was narrated by George W. Bush or some other partisan, even if the proponents felt the debate was over on the topic they were presenting.
10. Using a partisan to present issues affecting contested public policy matters makes it controversial per se. The media attention to our decision is also evidence of the controversial nature of this film.
11. Science and politics have been merged on this issue by persons beyond our control. The political aspect of this is what makes it the most controversial, especially when a political partisan makes the presentation. With that in mind, there are many other ways to teach global warming instead of using a feature film by a political partisan (see links below from NOAA and NASA that have references to skeptics), but despite that we did not vote to "ban" the movie even though we could have. We also had the power to compel specific sources be used instead of the movie and did not do that either. Some have raised the issue of us not watching the movie first, but we did not ban the movie or that would have been crucial. We did feel it was controversial based upon the above reasons which is all we needed to know based upon our policy.
12. On the issue of how final the debate is, Galileo and other out of the box thinkers come to mind. Would they have ever made their discoveries had they not questioned what was perceived to be the determined "facts" of the day by those in power? Those who believe science is infallible need a history lesson. Research issues that were thought to be scientific fact 50 or 100 years ago and you will truly understand why we believe in debate, even about science and even when some think the debate is over.
In sum, we simply asked for duly adopted policy to be followed by making sure opposing views were presented when a political partisan presents a contested political/scientific issue to impressionable youth.
Thank you.
Dave Larson
http://eobglossary.gsfc.nasa.gov/Library/GlobalWarming/warming.html
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html#INTRO
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Laboratory/PlanetEarthScience/GlobalWa…
Controversial Issues - Teaching of - 2331
The Federal Way School District shall offer courses of study which provide learning experiences appropriate to the level of student understanding. The instructional program shall respect the rights of students to face issues, to have free access to information, to study under teachers in situations free from prejudice, and to form, hold, an d express their own opinions without personal prejudice or discrimination.
Adoption Date: 8/10/98
Controversial Issues, Teaching Of - 2331P
The Board of Education of the Federal Way School District establishes the following guidelines to deal with the teaching of controversial issues:
• It is the teacher's responsibility to present controversial issues that are free from prejudice an d encourage students to form, hold and express their own opinions without personal prejudice or discrimination.
• When a teacher is in doubt as to whether or not a topic or speaker is controversial, they should refer the matter to the school principal.
• When controversial topics are presented in the classroom, students can choose not to participate. Alternate learning opportunities will be provided.
When handling controversial issues, the teacher may not present his/her own personal position as the only acceptable position, which may be taken on that particular issue. The teacher shall not seek to bring about a single conclusion to which all students must subscribe, but rather encourage a problem solving environment. The teacher shall not suppress a student's view on that issue as long as the expression of that view is not derogatory, malicious, or abusive toward the other students' views, nor shall one student be permitted to dominate the discussion.
8/10/98
Over at Framing Science, I have this post up on why Gore's film is not appropriate for science class:
http://scienceblogs.com/framing-science/2007/01/creationist_parent_gets…
2. We did not ban or censor the movie and have no intent to do so. Teachers can use it as they see fit if they follow policy on movies and controversial issues, but because there was some misunderstanding on the policy we asked that the Superintendent be involved in making sure policy was being followed. One of our high schools has already used the movie. The students were asked to take a side, research the issues, and then debate the issues from that standpoint. What they did goes above and beyond the policy in my opinion.
This is scary. Why? Global warming is still a COMPLEX issue but it is no longer a CONTROVERSIAL issue.
Who is "the truth." Is this post credible? Confirmed?
Also ... just checking here ... Dave Larsen is school board, right? What is the school board's policy regarding communication regarding issues before the board? Is it being followed?
Our man Frosty just made it into one of the headline stories on ABC News:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2824074&page=1
No, it's a pretty boring date. The last ice age ended 11,500 years ago.