OK, here's the latest word on tonight's show on atheists with Paula Zahn: there will be a different version of the previous report on ostracized atheists. Dawkins' interview will be four minutes long. There will also be a panel with Niger Innis (a conservative Republican), Roland Martin (a religious commentator), and Christopher Hitchens (atheist pain-in-the-ass). Apparently, they searched the entire United States of America and couldn't find a single atheist, so they had to import a couple from one of those godless foreign countries. You know, if they'd called me this morning I could have rushed off to the airport; when one is the only atheist in America, as I seem to be, one has to get used to making these emergency runs to meet demands to appear on a freakshow.
I guess this is standard operating procedure, with much last-minute juggling of the schedule, so you might tune in at 8pm EST tonight and discover that they thought 10 minutes of some guy playing the accordion would be more entertaining. Don't be surprised, it could happen.
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They'd have done better to book Gene Ray, who does in fact claim, "Love of God is hate for child."
I can't wait to see it!
Pity we can't have a panel with PZ, Dawkins, and Neil deGrasse Tyson.
The Evil American Atheist Conspiracy Group went to a lot of trouble to import Christopher Hitchens specifically for this type of occasion, so it's nice to see we're getting our money's worth.
You know, if they'd called me this morning I could have rushed off to the airport; when one is the only atheist in America, as I seem to be, one has to get used to making these emergency runs to meet demands to appear on a freakshow.
No, no, don't bother to come to us. We'll come to get you when we want you. Debbi has some plans for you, you know.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm
You know, it is actually pretty cool that I can get live updates of this ongoing kerfluffle, getting the word first-hand from a chief participant. . . all in simple text!
If only the content of public discourse could be as cool as the concept of the Blagnet.
Well Christopher Hitchens could do OK as long as he avoids talking about Middle-East Politics, and remembers to show up sober.
OK, so there isn't a chance in hell he'll show up sober..
I can see the producers panicking that Atheists will come off as positive... and I doubt they want the nightmare aftermath of that so they're stacking the deck so they can control it as much as possible.
They'll be happy if it's a wash or that Hitchen says something offensive.
Then they'll follow up with a nice piece entitled... "Is rising Atheism a sign of the coming Rapture?"
You know, I am looking forward to the wingnut reaction that Steve_C suggests - I wonder if this is going to get CNN branded as a "pro-atheist" news organization or some such nonsense.
This makes me think back to an odd idea I had of a talk show that would ONLY be religious debates, pitting people of faiths and non-faiths and semi-faiths against each other in serious, if heated debate. Like pro wrestling with worse pecs. If nothing else, people would tune in to have their preconceptions confirmed.
I heard the phone when I was in the shower this morning, they must have called me but didn't leave a message. Darn there go my 15 minutes....
Here's some of Donohue's hits from the Justice Sunday in 2005, all the winger religious leaders were there...
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=EF05H71#EF05H71
Donohue speaking about the left:
And the grief counselors will in fact properly hold their hands. That is what they do for a living. You see, because we respect the fact that they don't believe in anything. They believe in what I call the King Kong theory of creation. All of the sudden one day there were a bunch of apes up in the tree and then kerplunk, they fell down, lost most of their hair, they started walking around. That was Adam and Eve. If they want to believe that, that's okay, all right. So we have to respect that. That's where these people are coming from.
Now, I'm telling you, I have gotten this over the radio shows the last couple of weeks. Remember, I'm in New York City; I'm not down South. And I've been hit up with the same question over and over and over again: Why are you going to be with the Evangelicals? And I said what is wrong with Evangelicals? What have they ever done to me? What are you talking about? And, you know, they talk about you people, they demonize you people in a way they - if you did it about any other segment of the population they would call you a bigot. Well, when someone demonizes you, they are a bigot.
(Applause.)
And let's see, who are the people going after John Roberts? It's not evangelicals. I know who they are. Here's one guy who said this a week ago on "Meet the Press." Are you going - this is a proposed question - this guy said that he hopes the senators ask these questions of John Roberts. Here's one - are you going to say that because the Pope says this or the Church says that, you would do it no matter what? Who said that? Mario Cuomo, he's one of mine. He's a Catholic and he's the one saying this. (Laughter.) Right?
Here's another guy. If Roberts is confirmed, there will be quite a bloc of Catholics on the Court. Scalia, Kennedy, and Thomas are strong in the faith. Is it kosher to mention these things? Well, it is if your name is Christopher Hitchens, that atheist, anti-Catholic bigot. Of course, he would mention it. That's where it's coming from."
He doesn't like Hitchens... well at least that's good.
I hadn't heard the term King Kong theory before. I wish! IT would be awesome to be 50 feet tall.
Hopefully Dawkins will mention PZ's site and all hell will break loose.
Martin is studying to receive his master's degree in Christian Communications at Louisiana Baptist University.
http://www.rolandsmartin.com/page/about.cfm
M.A.in Christian Communications? Now I've heard everything.
M.A. in Bullshit, you mean.
Hitchens? Really? That's the ONLY atheist they could find? Man, that's gonna be funny. Not good for atheists, but funny.
"if...Hitchens says something offensive..."
Geez, I dunno, ya think maybe?
I like accordian music.
Sure, they want to perpetuate the notion that this country is still very religious. God forbid there could be home-grown atheists. Aren't we the only country standing between superstition (ours) and superstition (theirs)? As for Hitch, I heard the network is providing ample booze..
Besides, watch how the Dem & Repub candidates will compete for the religious wingnuts' affection and show how good Xtians they are!
Wow. I thought the original show was bull shit. Somehow, CNN is managing to make it even more bull shittier than I could have imagined on my own.
Yeah, I want to know what a Conservative Republican thinks about atheists-- because we didnt already get to see what they thought about atheists in the last damn panel.
Holy shit, are these producers from Mars?
And where can I get a job as a 'religious commenter'? Im sick of all this 'research' and 'saving humanity' nonsense.
You know, stupid panels like this are exactly why young females need to step up their vocalization about their atheism. I (and Im sure Skatje) would love to be on that panel, to have old men tell us we have no morals, that we dont know what persecution and prejudice feel like, and the reason we feel the way we do is that we are 'rebelling' against our parents/god/etc. I would love to be the cute little kitten that rips their stereotypes and hateful speech to shreds.
Anyone who reads PZs blog, any of the videos on YouTube for the Blasphemy Challenge, any American Atheist could defend themselves against the panel 'experts' CNN has found, and we're all begging to have the chance to put a real face on Atheism for CNN. *sigh* But no, by all means, CNN, invite Christopher Hitchens. *sigh*
If they wanted to get foreigners they should have called Moran in. I think it is cheaper to get someone from Toronto than England. They could have made it even more interesting by flying in an Aussie Apatheist.
The Evil American Atheist Conspiracy Group went to a lot of trouble to import Christopher Hitchens specifically for this type of occasion, so it's nice to see we're getting our money's worth.
He's comedy relief.
"Love of God is hate for child."
Wha-?
Thank goodness they're using atheists with English accents so the Disney viewers will know who the villains are.
BTW, I figured out that I can in fact attend the "Kansas vs. Darwin" film tonight at the Bell Auditorium, so will someone be posting this on YouTube? Tubular.
Did I read that they were editing his 20 minute interview down to 4 minutes? Damn. I'm worried about how much theyll quote mine and how much they'll just string words together to make 'teh athiests' monstrous.
Hitchens, 'Letters to a Young Contrarian,' 2001:
"(A)long with Islam and Christianity it [Judaism] does insist that some turgid and contradictory and sometimes evil and mad texts, obviously written by fairly inexceptional humans, are in fact the word of god. I think that the indispensable condition of any intellectual liberty is the realisation that there is no such thing."
Hitchens, Slate, 'Moore's Law,' 2003:
"(T)he true problem is our failure to recognize that religion is not just incongruent with morality but in essential ways incompatible with it."
Hitchens' latest book: 'God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything'
The problem with these shows is that they pick the two most volatile talking heads from either side and pit them against each other for dramatic effect. What results is often as anti-informative (yet entertaining) as Celebrity Deathmatch. However I think its missing the point to blame CNN. CNN's reports what it thinks Americans want to see, not really whats the most "newsworthy" (go to BBC and see what's reported about the USA, often completely different stuff). So, channel your ire at the mediocre American couch potato, who'll probably be pointing at the screen dumbfounded that anyone would rather go to hell than accept a Personal Lordandsavior (TM).
If they needed another English atheist, they should have invited Eddie Izzard to sit on the panel. Now that is a show that I would go out of my way to watch
What do you guys want to bet that it will be bumped for a night of Anna Nicole Smith speculation?
I dare you to take a look at this band and then say you don't like accordion music:
http://www.mainsqueeze-nyc.com/orchestra/players.html
"Thank goodness they're using atheists with English accents so the Disney viewers will know who the villains are."
But the Star Wars fans will think they're the good guys...
I wonder if all the e-mailing convinced the producers of Paula Zahn's show that the topic brings in the ratings, instead of telling them that their approach had been fundamentally mistaken.
Hey I got an idea!! Let's bring in Johnny (Rotten) Lydon! Now that would be a gas. I'm sure he'd liven things up a bit. Really give atheists a good name, stands for all those things that the religious groups think atheists stand for (you know, sex, drugs, rock and roll, anarchy, safety pins in the nose, and leather).
Seriously, though, it would be entertaining.
Rey Fox: ....mmmm, I'm pretty sure that on balance the Imperials had British accents and the Rebels had flat/American accents. With exceptions, of course.
Or were you saying the Imperials were the good guys? :)
I suspect everything will be bumped tonight so we can have nonstop coverage of the inevitable Anna Nicole Smith overdose.
Off topic slightly, but on a different "news" show, ABC's "Nightline," back on January 30th when they did a story on "The Blasphemy Challenge," the reporter asked the single must inane and insulting question of an atheist I think I've ever heard. First he asked Brian, the atheist promoting "The Blasphemy Challenge," if he was afraid of hell. "Not at all," Brian responded. And here it comes. The "reporter" actually asked this follow-up question: "Is that because you think hell will be fun?" You know those snakes that eat eggs three times thicker than their bodies? That's how far my jaw fell.
"Thank goodness they're using atheists with English accents so the Disney viewers will know who the villains are."
Shouldn't one of them sound like Whoopi Goldberg?
It boggles the mind that these gaping maws of stupidity get to be called journalists.
Alec Guinness was English, which is probably what Rey Fox had in mind, though the Imperial officers definately had British accents as well. Some of the minor rebels might have had British accents too, though.
And the reporter couldn't believe they weren't worried about hell.
And asked something like "what if you find out there is?"
Reply: "That would suck. But I'm not worried about that happening."
Why is the concept so hard to understand?
With a name like Paula Zahn (I had to check it wasn't a joke one), you owed it to your initials to be there PZ!
Yeah, the Jedi. Kenobi and Qui-Gonn Jinn. Not so much Mace Windu though.
Oh, and C-3PO. And Leia, once or twice.
Paula Zahn NOW: What really happened? Paula Zahn looks at posible causes for Anna Nicole Smith's sudden death. (from http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/)
Looks like it really is getting bumped by Anna Nicole Smith speculation.
I thought it would. It's so trashy they can't avoid it.
How very sad and concerned they'll pretend to be.
Nothing like showing a rich trainwreck to make
the people feel better about themselves.
Maybe they'll blame it on atheists. ;)
From this page of Paula Zahn Now info, I quote the following ironic text.
Does not compute. Does not compute. Does not. . . .
Surely, they can't be doing the Anna Nicole What's-her-name speculation for the entire hour.
You know their is a deeper perversity to the fact that all these interviewers/reporters can't FATHOM that people don't believe in God/Hell.
They are supposed to be people trained and paid to go out into the world and dig and get in peoples heads. Criminals, soldiers, bakers, scientists, plumbers, IT guys, etc.
But atheists somehow are just...impossible.
They react to a person saying their is no God the same way they react to a guy who says he turned cannibal while trapped in the mountains.
Then they say "You aren't afraid of Hell?"/"You like Hell?" In effect showing that they aren't considering what it would mean to go without divinity, just assuming they are mad, sick, or haven't realized not believing in Him, would upset Him.
No thought. No analysis. No Journalism. It's just shameful. The story of the family shows some consideration, but by focusing as little as possible on you they were and more on how they were treated. In effect it was REALLY so lightly touched on, that you could easily translate what happen to a story of family being outed as Jewish in some small Southern town in the 30's.
What's worse, edited down Dawkins, or another Brit to represent American atheism? STILL, they can't find an American? And they pick the alcoholic one, who shows up tipsy on camera more than Paula Abdul. Still he is a surly and nasty opponent, if he can stay in his seat, oh right, they stand. But he is pugnacious and tough.
And, again, 4 minutes of Dawkins. You get such a lauded scientist and noted atheist and that's all you want? Come on!
It seems like they want to put an effort forward. But a minimum one. In four minutes Dawkins can say a lot. In 10 minutes he could give a lot of good cogent information to Zahn in an interview. But, maybe that isn't what they want tonight.
One can only hope that CNN isn't filling Hitchens' green room. But I have often wondered if that is Bill Maher's strategy with him on his own show.
It's sad that now I have trouble putting that passed CNN.
Still, I will need to see tonight (7PM Central). But I have that much less hope for the show.
CNN lowering expectation, news cycle by news cycle.
They had Lori Lipman Brown of The Secular Coalition in the original story, but I suppose that they didn't want a pleasant, sober, American atheist on their panel.
So, what is the word? Will they being pulling things to cover the stirring story of a inexplicablly famous person dying for who knows what reason? This is yet another event, that is legitamentally sad, but not a reason to throw aside serious news.
But these days it is more entertainment.
People watch American Idol to see people belittled and humiliated. People watch the news to see who to BOO.
Zahn interviewing Kerry. She clearly supports the religious nutballs:
KERREY: ... Look, my religious belief causes me to conclude that homosexuality and heterosexuality are both natural states, that God put gay and straight on this Earth alike. And it's taken us a while to come to terms with that, but that's my religious belief. It's an article of faith. It's not based on science or a political calculation. ...
ZAHN: Well, a lot of Americans don't think it's an article of faith according to their own religious convictions.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0411/08/pzn.01.html
Let's bring in Johnny (Rotten) Lydon!
Posted by: rjb
Or get someone that's still coherent, like Lemmy Kilmister.
I dare you to take a look at this band and then say you don't like accordion music:
Posted by: Raymond
Dare taken. Meh.
Although I like this band and they have an accordian player.
According to the Dawkins web site, this has been postponed until Friday. (probably because of the hugely important story of the death of a former playboy centerfold).
Heck, if they are looking for an articulate atheist, I work just a few blocks south of the CNN studio in New York.
No, you arrogant son of a bitch. You're the only semi-famous (certainly infamous) atheist in America.
I would love to see you on national TV fisking superstition.
**Wet dreams of you and Sylvia Brown on Larry King.**
Can you imagine the course list?
-Glossolalia/Speaking in Tongues
-Introductory Pontification
-Divinely Mandated: Direct Mail
-Televangelism for the 24-hour News Cycle
-Jesus r00lz! Marketing to Teens
-View from the Pulpit: Sermoninzing 101
-Cherry-Picking Bible Quotes
-It's God's Internet, We're Just His Data Packets: Establishing an Online Ministry
CNN: When hours of speculation just isn't enough
I saw on "Situation Room" where Jack Cafferty had a great snide comment about CNN's wall to wall coverage of Smith's death about 5 PM today.
Cafferty: Wolf is Anna Nicole Smith still dead?
Blitzer: Huh... er... yes we will be getting an update in minute....
Cafferty: I can hardly wait....
LOL.
Does anyone know what that has to do with King Kong? Anything at all? Or is "King Kong" just the first thing to float into Donohue's mind when he hears the word "ape?"
Or is "King Kong" just the first thing to float into Donohue's mind when he hears the word "ape?"
I like your donahue theory of King Kongism.
tell me more.
I really wish the producers realized that the American Philosophical Association has hundreds of godless philosophers who would love nothing more than to play public intellectual for a day (or, 4 minutes). Not to brag, but we're specially trained in identifying the bullshit in bad arguments and quick on our feet (we're not weighed down by facts like you science types) so it would be nice if every once in a while we saw a philosopher on one of these shows.
As that will never, ever, nerver happen, may I ask as a personal favor to me that when the next godless scientist (PZ?) gets to make their public appearance they really press the argument from evil. Get nasty.
DragonScholar - Monty Python got there first. God exists by two falls to a submission.
Hitchens? Oh, crap. He was torn to shreds by George Galloway. That was funny as heck.
We cancelled cable, so we didn't watch it. Best savings of US$50/month we ever made.
"But the Star Wars fans will think they're the good guys..."
The fact that most of the original trilogy was shot in England might have smething to do with that...
My interview lasted about a half an hour on camera (and an additional half hour preliminary information by phone.) The one sentence from the taping which was used was fair and not taken out of context, but given the responses I gave to questions about the "Christian nation" fallacy; the "teaching of atheism" in public schools; the push to Christianize our civil laws; the specifics of discrimination/harrassment of atheists I have been receiving; etc... the producers knew that there was an American available to respond to many of the ridiculous comments the panelists made (or they could have even used already taped responses to the panel idiocy.) That said, I feel confident that the two members of the Secular Coalition for America's advisory board who will be interviewed will handle the interview skillfully.
Lori Lipman Brown
Director, Secular Coalition for America
I never got a call. I'm American and I'm an atheist. Richard Dawkins is a good choice though. He is very smart and has his position well thought out.
I'm an atheist *and* I have an accordion! They should put me on!
Isn't atheism based upon a belief that there is no god just like christianity is based upon a belief that there is a god?
I don't see the difference.
They want Dawkins for 4 minutes after they cancelled the segment to spend an hour on Anna Nicole. My expectations are not high.
Why not get Ted Turner, the creator of CNN
John: as the saying goes, Atheism is a belief in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
I think they'd have done much better to get Penn Jillette.
So believing there is a god zeus is exactly the same as not believing there is...
There's no difference between believing and NOT believing?
Ohhhhh, I get it if you believe something doesn't exist it's the same because one used belief in a negative versus a positive.
It's sad how semantically literal you have to be with these dolts sometimes.
"What's worse, edited down Dawkins, or another Brit to represent American atheism?"
FWIW, Hitchens applied for US citizenship after 9/11, and AFAIK might already have been granted it.
George: Man, talk about degree inflation, no?
Odd Jack: Appalling especially as these are nominally well educated people - these days, don't they all go to journalism school?
quoted: "Hitchens? Oh, crap. He was torn to shreds by George Galloway. That was funny as heck."
Are you crazy? Hitchens smoked Galloway. See, Hitchens actually made points and argued, Galloway just shouted rhetoric. Not that I agree with either of them much when it comes to Iraq.