Sometimes you just have to shake your head at the indignant, smug prudes who want to control what you read. Here's a story of a young lady who wants to dictate what her peers are allowed to see.
Lysa Harding, 15, couldn't believe the sexually charged prose of the novel she checked out from the library at Brookwood High School. Her grandmother was offended, too.
Now they're refusing to return the book, "Sandpiper" by Ellen Wittlinger, saying other teens shouldn't be exposed to it.
She read it, her grandmother read it, but you better not read it … because it's about teenagers having sex (never mind that it is a cautionary tale), and grandmother and granddaughter are adamant that everyone must be kept in ignorance.
"I honestly believe that it should not be at school, because at my school they teach abstinence and no sex before marriage, but then all the book is teaching is how to do those things," she said.
So far, it's just a tale of boring bluenoses, but there's also something subtle in this story…something that might require that you know a little basic arithmetic, so it might just sail over the heads of those who ought to think about it most.
"This book is sick," said Pennington. "I'm 50 years old, and I've raised 11 sets of kids and been through many a library, and I've never seen a book like this in a school library before."
Heh. This is a woman complaining that teenagers ought not to learn about sex, and she's 50 years old with a 15-year-old granddaughter, and has had 11 kids. Were they all virgin births? Is she just jealous that no one ever told her about the consequences of youthful boinking?
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If she succeeds, the same case could be made regarding the bible. Sauce for the goose...
If the book is teaching how to do "those things," i.e. abstinence and no sex, what's she complaining about?
Apparently, how to form a sentence that means what you want it to mean is not on that list of things they teach at her school.
Pre-marital hanky-panky for me, but not for thee!
Well, she can either 1) return the book and pay the fine or 2) pay for a new book. I don't know how she (and her grandma) think keeping the book will prevent others from reading it, unless they don't think that the library will buy another copy. As a bonus, since she likely won't do 2) (for the reason above), then she'll probably lose her library card. If you can't play nice with others, you can sit in the corner until you learn to do so.
As a side note, either her grandma or her mom found about about sex rather early in their youth to sustain the intergenerational period. If they couldn't keep their children from learning about sex then, what makes them think they can do so now?
What does she mean by "11 sets of kids"? How many kids come in a set? Were they all hers or is she raising some of her grandkids?
I'm confused.
Actually, I wouldn't be too sure about that. What exactly is a "set" of kids? It sounds to me like 11 sets of kids would probably constitute more than 11 kids. Perhaps she's including some multiple births as a single set each? Or she's counting grandchildren she's helped raise? So, maybe more than 11, maybe less.
So let's see, mom and grandma average out to 17 1/2 years old for the birth of their first child (assuming mom was the first) which means they average to 16 years 9 months at conception.
So in 33 and 1/3 years grandma has had 11 children averaging out to one child every 3 years since she was 16 years old (assuming she still remains capable of bearing children and has not lost any).
Seems the only sexual information grandma ever received was "be fruitful and multiply" ... which seems a far cry abstinence education, the sexual equivalent of 'Just-hold-it' potty training. Thank you Roy Zimmerman :)
Hap:
Clearly the grandma and the mom both read Sandpiper as young adults!
Maybe grandma is shocked that it now appears it wasn't visits from the stork that accounted for all those kids. What the???
Youth sex! Wooo!
Well I guess they are the proper authority to determine the appropriateness of the book. Since they know first hand that teenage sex leads to an unwanted surplus of small-minded hypocritical morons.
I think by sets of kids she means raising children and grandchildren. I've heard this kind of comment before from women who were barely literate but exceptional at popping out kids.
Here at our local library books that are deemed unworthy by the more avidly religious are often vandalised and defaced. Pages are torn out, sentences, paragraphs are blacked out.
Some years ago a band I played in had a long job far away. The wife of one of the members had nothing to do while we were playing, and as I always have a book or two with me, I loaned her one that I was almost through with. It was Parke Godwin's "Waiting for the Galactic Bus".
I asked for it back later, and was informed that she had ripped it up and thrown it away. It was blasphemous and disgusting, and no one should be allowed to read such a thing. I had a copy of Koman's "Jehovah Contract" luckily it was in German. I'd hate to think what she'd of done over that.
The sad thing is that the 15 year old isn't outraged at all. She is pretending to be outraged. I wonder how she chose that book to read in the first place? One would hope that she will stop role playing, and she probably will because abstinence is abnormal and therefore pretty darn uncomfortable. It seems that almost nobody can sustain an abstinent lifestyle for very long... take Catholic priests. Take Ted Haggard! Well, maybe not the best example :-)
Offending passage:
"But it always ends up the same way. Eventually it's clear that what he really needs is for me to put my mouth around his dick. After a minute or two of this I become anonymous. To the guy and to myself. Andrew (or whoever) is lost inside himself, waiting to be shaken by his own little volcano, and I'm thinking, Who is this girl kneeling on the floor with some weird guy's bone in her mouth? It's like I'm not even there anymore."
My goodness! This book belongs in every public library in the country.
Thank you, Ellen, for presenting the reality some people pretend does not exist.
Give the book back, Grandma! Stop imposing your shallow, idiotic, narrow-minded morality on other people.
These are the very people who didn't want their kids learning about sex in school so they foisted the abstinence method on us.
I went to Catholic schools from 1970 to 1982. I'll never forget when a Brother explained the rhythm method to us. He said people who practice such a thing are called parents.
Looks increasingly like Catholics were ahead of the curve back then.
Guys guys guys, it could be the grandma had a teenage son who sired the granddaughter. In which case grandma's morals are intact, cos nobody cares how much or how early men start having sex, you only get puritanical on women's sex lives.
She's been boiking her brains out WITHOUT protection.
Some role model.
Thank goodness, someone finally has come up with a method to stop Brookwood High teens from having all that nasty premarital sex. Now that Ms. Harding has taken this brave stance, the incidence of teens having sex will undoubtedly drop to zero, as will teen pregnancies.
Bravo to the Harding family for instilling such strong moral values to be imposed upon the world.
If only there were some way to convince these people to remain abstinant after marriage as well.
"Be fruitful and multiply."
Crikey, what filth!
The recent prevalence of sex in teen novels for girls makes me sort of wince. But maybe the societal horse is just out of the barn on sexuality privacy mores, and we will have a different sort of society than we've had. And that might work.
I just preferred the other one.
I'm shocked!!! Shocked!! All this talk about sex. Stop it!! Do you hear me!! Stop it!! Well, maybe a little bit. What was that bit about a girl on her knees?? Stop it, dammit!!! Shocking!!
It will be interesting to see if little Lysa gets suspended from school for deliberate, in-your-face theft from the school library. I suspect that she won't be since this happened in Alabama...
Suspect that her grandmother may be raising her. Which makes you reasonably question the grandmother's parenting skills since her offspring are unable to raise their offspring.
Vagina, it's not a clown car.
What? They teach abstinence? How can the teachers of that school sleep at night, teaching about a kind of sex?
Sure, abstinence is a kind of sexual activity. Just like atheism is a religion.
Well the bible better go too, there's all that begatting for a start, and then the perving on bathsheba and someting rather sticky with onan, dont forget Lots' husband throwing his daughter out to be raped by the mob. It goes on and on and on.
I actually think the passage quoted seems about right for teenage girls, not all kids of course but jeebus that's why we go to school, to learn how to discern between competing thoughts, styles, philosophies etc etc etc.
Glad I'm not in Alabama.
Blake, "A study of another abstinence program found it did a phenomenal job of getting girls to postpone their first sexual encounter. One problem: it evaluated only girls who stayed in the program, says Maynard. Girls who had sex were thrown out."
That is hillarious!
Maybe we should each buy a copy and send it to the school, so they have plenty of backup copies.
Looks like copies are available for as little as $1.18 on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Sandpiper-Ellen-Wittlinger/dp/1416936513/
"... all the book is teaching is how to do those things," she said."
Clearly, nobody ever learned about sex and "how to do it" before books like this were available. Nor do they have babies in areas and times where most people are illiterate.
"but jeebus that's why we go to school, to learn how to discern between competing thoughts, styles, philosophies etc etc etc."
What? That's crazy talk. We go to school to learn to trust authority and gain the most basic skill set to become wage slaves. Or are you some sort of communist?
About four years ago the local Nazarenes were checking all the spiritualist, satanist, and new age books out of the library and did not return them so that nobody would be seduced by the devil. I don't know how to feel about this. On one hand there is less crap in the library, but on the other I can't stand for a small gang of censors deciding what every one else can read. Don't these nut-jobs realize that when the library buy a new replacement, it just drives up the sales of the book they object to.
Ooh, not returning the book. Why don't you burn the dang thing? Make a righteous smoke for the Lord? Not only are these Christianists annoying, they're pansies*.
It's also a problem of parenting. We have a couple here who can't even spell "Lisa" correctly.
* I begin to wonder if the girl steals glances at it when no one else is looking. You know, seeing how the other half lives and all.
Why is it that people don't understand the Bill of Rights? We have freedom of speech, press and religion. We do NOT have the right to never be offended. I'm tired of these morality police telling trying to enforce their absurd values. You want to get rid of something offensive there Christian, go to Judges 11 about how God had a man roast his daughter based on an oath he swore to God. He did it, just as he promised and God was no where to be found to intervene. If we go by their own standards, we'd have to ban that too!
Where does privacy come into it? What's more private than reading a book?
No, you're looking for a differnt phrase. Perhaps "sexual secrecy" or "sexual shame" or "sexual guilt". See, privacy is all about what you are allowed to keep private. Whereas what you're talking about is what you are not allowed to make public. Totally different animal.
The "sets" bit made me wonder too. Does she subscribe to the Naive or Axiomatic theory?
...Sorry, it's been a slow day....
$20USD (I can't afford euros, okay?) says she's pregnant within two years.
I'm 50 years old, and I've raised 11 sets of kids and been through many a library
Been through most of her high school class, too, most likely. They formed a Library Club so they could check out her stacks.
Clearly, the real situation was not explained. Here's most likely what "really" happened and why Lysa is acting so weird.
Lysa, trying to escape the oppression of her school, mother, and church, finds a quaint little book with all kinds of sex stuff in it. Lysa, feeling free, checks the book out and decides to read it in secret.
Well, mom pops in unexpectedly and says, "what are you reading?"
Lysa, "A book I found at school."
"That's nice...what's it about?"
"Oh, nothing. Just a book about being a teenager in a real big world."
"Let me see."
"Uhhhh...."
Mom grabs the book, flips through, then screams in horror.
"What's wrong mom?"
"It's all about sex!!! How could you read such a thing?!!!"
"Uhhhh... uhhhh...mmmm...That's terrible! I hadn't got to that part. Oh, I would be soooo scarred! I'm so glad you found out about it before me!" Lysa lies.
So, we see, Lysa is continuing with the lie to avoid being beaten with a ruler until such impure thoughts and wants leave her body.
A book about sex called the "Sandpiper"? That sounds too gritty for me. I prefer "The Magic Flute."
Just wait until she gets to Moby Dick.
Grandma or granddaughter?
$20USD (I can't afford euros, okay?) says she's pregnant within two years.
Grandma or granddaughter?
$50 USD that BOTH are in within 2 years.
OMG I now feel so old. You can be a baby boomer like me (and PZ if it comes to that) and have a 15 y.o. grandchild already? I hadn't realised that.
It also includes the theme of slavery:
It all started in the eighth grade. That year all of a sudden you had to have a boyfriend -- you had to, or you just felt worthless. My best friends, Melissa and Allie, and I spent hours talking about how to get guys to like us.
Melissa was the first one to figure out a foolproof method. Allie and I were disgusted when she confessed to us why Tim McIlhenny was following her around like an imprinted duck. But after a few weeks of listening to Melissa's detailed instructions, we both decided to give it a try. Who knew? Obviously, the way to an eighth-grade boy's heart was through the zipper of his jeans. It probably wasn't the only way, but it was the only way we knew.
Tony Phillips was my slave for two months.
Great stuff! They should teach this book in civics class.
"Eleven sets of kids"
She's obviously had eleven different husbands or lovers and had several kids with each one.
Not only this, but school boards across the country are chaired by people just like these lost ones. Rep. Michele Bachman comes to mind as a former school board member with limited world view.
You have to admire the logic of a woman who apparently became a grandmother at 35 thinking that if you don't tell horny teenagers about sex, it will never occur to them.
Oh, wait, the 15 year old is claiming that these are her ideas. Right. Sure. Whatever you say...
Maybe this is all just a clever guerrilla marketing campaign? I mean, most of the kids at that school would never have even heard of this book before today, but they're sure as hell all going to read it now. Nice job! ;-)
So, they want to be good little Christians by not letting any children know about sex, but they'll do it by breaking one of their God's ten most important commandments, "Thou shalt not steal". Yep, great moral educators there.
Come on, Stephen. You have to admire the character of a little girl who's willing to burn in hell for all eternity just so she can save others from all them thar immoral liberry books!
Well played, Randy and Dewraith. Very well played.
spelling it out explicitly with some quick'n'dirty maths
gran = 50, lysa = 15 (today)
gran = 35, lysa = 0 (lysa born)
gran = 34.25, lysa = -0.75 (lysa conceived)
assume mum was legal
gran = 34.25, mum = 18 (lysa conceived)
gran = 16.25, mum = 0 (mum born)
gran = 15.5, mum = -0.75 (mum conceived)
oops. assume gran was legal.
gran = 18, mum = -0.75 (mum conceived)
gran = 18.75, mum = 0 (mum born)
gran = 34.25, mum = 15.5 (lysa conceived)
oops.
spelling it out explicitly with some quick'n'dirty maths
gran = 50, lysa = 15 (today)
gran = 35, lysa = 0 (lysa born)
gran = 34.25, lysa = -0.75 (lysa conceived)
assume mum was legal
gran = 34.25, mum = 18 (lysa conceived)
gran = 16.25, mum = 0 (mum born)
gran = 15.5, mum = -0.75 (mum conceived)
oops. assume gran was legal.
gran = 18, mum = -0.75 (mum conceived)
gran = 18.75, mum = 0 (mum born)
gran = 34.25, mum = 15.5 (lysa conceived)
oops.
Here in Georgia we love stories like this from Alabama. It proves we're not the most backward state in the nation. Sometimes, we're not even second.
So, they just upped the sales of this book.
Reading the descriptions of the book at Amazon make it seem like a pretty bad book, actually.
But whatever. this kind of whining is so old it hurts, almost.
phat
Reminds of the guy who ate a big steak at a restaraunt
and told the waiter it was terrible.
Ray S, you're touching on the reason Alabamans say "Thank God for Mississippi.".
People like this really piss me off.
I'd like to remind everyone that BANNED BOOK WEEK is September 29 through October 6 and this year's theme is PIRATES!
I've already been working on a list with my kids. Tay is reading Chocolate War, Chinese Handcuffs and Star Girl... Cay is reading The Bluest Eye and Stargirl.
I'm also taking these last couple weeks of the month to re-acquaint myself with His Dark Materials Trilogy.
There are tons of ideas and events on the ALA website, and some buttons to put on your blogs (come on, you can AT LEAST do that much!)
I also have a list of the most recently successfully banned books on my Critics Corner of my website.
http://www.ala.org/bbooks
No, you're looking for a differnt phrase. Perhaps "sexual secrecy" or "sexual shame" or "sexual guilt". See, privacy is all about what you are allowed to keep private. Whereas what you're talking about is what you are not allowed to make public. Totally different animal.
No, I think I was ok using "privacy" and getting the meaning right. If one says one is a sexually private person, this means they are one who does not divulge much about their sexual behaviors (not, as you would have it, that one enjoys a lack of spying from others). The state of being a private person is called privacy. Of course, that's not the only definitions. The definitions from Merrian-Webster are:
1 a : the quality or state of being apart from company or observation : SECLUSION b : freedom from unauthorized intrusion
2 archaic : a place of seclusion
3 a : SECRECY b : a private matter : SECRET
So I'll take 1a, 3a, and 3b, then. You can have 1b. Of the choices you gave, "sexual secrecy" would be the only one close. "Sexual shame" and "sexual guilt" have nothing to do with what I wish to see; shame and guilt are simply orthogonal to it. There is a difference between being prudish and being private. But I've found that if one is private one is assumed to be prudish, but that's wrong.
Lot's husband? What, all that begetting and gay marriage too?
Praise the Lewd!
.
The 50-15 age range does not require one or more underage teenage mothers. Perhaps one of Gran's daughters married an older man who already had a daughter (Lysa) who is now 15.
Whatever. The story is one in a long line of annoying stories about narrow-minded fools who want to control other people's lives. Idiots!
Oh, but what sweet, sweet irony that little Lysa's surname is "Hardon"!
Uh, what? It's "Harding"?
Ooops.
[scratches head]
No, still not getting it. Whose privacy are you suggesting is being impacted here?
haha, that sets of kids thing fucked me up - we can't stop laughing-my friend is like "just email her and tell her she's a fucking liar" lol
The author has posted a response in this item at the Authors in Support of Intellectual Freedom site. Check it out.
A paperback copy of the book costs about $7. Send yours to:
Brookwood High School Library
Brookwood, AL 35444
Quiz time.
Which book is these from?
"Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle."
"Your stature is like that of the palm, and your breasts like clusters of fruit. I said, I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit. May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine."
"Let us go early to the vineyards to see if the vines have budded, if their blossoms have opened, and if the pomegranates are in bloom -- there I will give you my love."
Hint: It's the same book where there's a story about an old man who had survived a sort of nuclear attack and then had sex with his own daughters.
I don't care what moral spin she puts on it, other idiocy aside, she's stealing. I seem to remember some rule against this in some holy text or another, and that it is, in fact, against some laws here or there.
And I'm amused that the GRAPHIC DEPICTION of sex seem to have made her miss the point of the book -- which is apparently anti-teen sex or some such. But then, we can't talk about bad things other than saying that they're bad and not for the good children.
Let's see... which commandment says "thou shalt not steal"?
She's a heretic. Stone her.
-jcr
Dewraith - excellent. You should work it up into a screenplay.
#3 DiscGrace,
"PMHP"?!
Sure you aren't DiscJoyce, She of the Triangular Smile?
Do Mississippians ever thank God for Georgia...? Or is there South Carolina in between?
I think this is ridiculous, but even if someone DID agree that the book is too risque, they need to realize that one surefire way to get MORE kids interested in reading this book is to make a big hubbub about how sexual the themes are. I bet many kids at the school that weren't in the class that required it picked it up after they had their interest piqued by all the warnings/promises about the content. Seems to me that the efforts could kind of backfire, it doesn't matter if they remove the book from the school library, kids today have ample access to sites like Amazon, chain bookstores, etc, attempts at censorship are kind of vain, in my opinion.
I like how they can get rid of the book and forget the practice exists. However, what they don't seem to realize is that humans are wholly animals and it doesn't take a book to teach someone how to do it or acknowledge is exists. Our ancestors had to make do with less.
And so on.
Once those little hormones kick into high gear, there's no stopping them.
Many years ago, PBS aired a panel discussion concerning censoring books. A "minister" said he thought he should protect children from seeing certain books. Kurt Vonnegut asked him if his own children would obey him if he told them not to read certain books. Minister "Yes." Vonnegut "Then, your concerns have been met."
I miss Vonnegut.
Hmmm. Don't overlook another somewhat dark part of human nature, that sometimes those who protest the loudest or otherwise take righteous public stances are doing so to deflect attention from their behavior in that regard. Perhaps the daughter already well knows the seductive fruits of that behavior but what better way to deflect parental suspicions? The media not infrequently reports on politicians and preachers who have been discovered employing this strategy.
If they brazenly announced that they are keeping the book and not giving it back, then they are thieves and the book should be thrown at them.
This is NOT the first time I've seen people advocate stealing things that offend their little worldview.
Pun intended. :)
Right! She could avoid a larceny rap by simply reshelving the book into the "Religion" section of her local libraries and bookstores.
While we're on the subject, it's worth pointing out that Banned Books Week is coming up.
http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bannedbooksweek.htm
Q. What title caused the most conniptions among the self-appointed censors in 2006?
A. "And Tango makes three," a picture book about penguins.
?. No, I'm not kidding.
I was more than a little concerned about Grandma's, "I raised 11 sets of kids..." (emphasis added). 11 *sets*?? Are we talking twins and/or triplets? Is this woman single-handedly responsible for over-population?
And, as an aside, she'd (Grandma again) never read anything like that, still managed to get pregnant at a young age, as did her daughter--does she still think books "like that" are responsible or could it maybe, possibly, be human nature to enjoy sex?
Set of kids = litter of kids? Makes sense.
No, still not getting it. Whose privacy are you suggesting is being impacted here?
If you go back through the posts, originally I was complaining that the whole culture in the U.S., as I see it, is becoming less sexually private and more sexually divulgent, open. 30 years ago Judy Blume's books for young adults did have some sexual aspects to them, but I don't think even she had girls talking about having oral sex. Maybe I'm wrong.
But now there are a apprarently a fair number of novels pitched at teen girls which do talk about sex quite a bit. From what I understand, Sandpiper is a well-done novel, so I am not condemning this one based on its treatment of sex. It might be just what society needs, I don't know. I just wonder if it there aren't good social reasons to keep sexual issues a little more clandestine ("private"). I mean, you see this in the idolization of super-sexualized female pop stars, with six year old girls a few years back wanting to have Britney Spears parties when she was 100% about sex. There is something freaky about it.
I know, I sound like a 1950s minister here. But I think there may be sound reasons why sex is best kept a little separate from other aspects of life. But it's just a vague hunch, and I could be wrong.
I see your $20 Caucasian Jesus, and bet its 18 months. If she's making this big of a fuss, she's probably primed.
And some of the comments about self-righteous jerks destroying property, withholding it, etc. -- that just says it all. If it doesn't fit your perspective, destroy it.
#28: I agree. Teachers and libraries should just bulk up on books like this and keep them available. A lot of English teachers in secondary education will buy up cheap copies and keep them in their classroom, just in case the library copy "disappears."
Alabama and Georgia compete for #48 and #49. Mississippi is pretty predictably #50 on most measures of education, poverty, etc. (but not always; I think Alabama is still the fattest state). South Carolina and Texas certainly give us a run for our money in religiosity and stupid politicians.
Der Vogelfänger indeed.
How many of her peers are now on the waiting list for the book at the public library?
As to "learning how to do it from a book," it was a whole lot more fun learning how to do it from a girl I went to school with. What they taught me in "sex education" classes wasn't very useful either.
Seriously, though, I love it when the fundies and prudes act like the kids have to be told how to do it. If we just keep the horrible truth from them until the preacher tells them about it at the wedding....
It's obvious that abstinence training in high school doesn't work. The states where abstinence is taught has some of the highest rates of teenage pregnancies. In theory, it should. But, the reality is that teenagers are going to experiment with sex sooner or later. There's alot of misinformation floating around about sex also. I believe that the best defense is education. Also, making condoms available should improve the statiatics. Sex is a normal part of being a human, but the churches and schools are making it out to be an ambarassing evil sin. Arm the kids with information. The fact is that kids in these states are not being educated enough to be able to make responsible decisions. This is what is causing the teen pregnancies.
Ah, so we have cretins declaring impropriety in a BOOK ("never mind that it is a CAUTIONARY tale", as PZ says).
What ELSE is new?
The OTHER book seems to encourage the faithful to be wildly promiscuous (yes?), as so many interpreters, so curiously swift in their promotion of the adage, "Be fruitful and multiply", amply testifies.
If this thinking is taken to its logical conclusion, one must conclude that books that tout total abstinance have this curious opposite effect.
Evidently, therefore, if its done well and often enough, the result should have the effect of increasing the urge.
No family pet or fire hydrant is safe.
No. We can't POSSIBLY appeal to the innate sensiblities of common folks. In order to get them to do what WE think is MORALLY RIGHT, we have to DECIEVE them into behaving in opposing directions.
We certainly can't have any of that direct, logical, rational, sensible, straightforward, unambiguous, unequivocal stuff to inform people with and expect them to get the picture, can we?
I'm quite optimistic, however. We're doomed.
30 years ago Judy Blume's books for young adults did have some sexual aspects to them, but I don't think even she had girls talking about having oral sex. Maybe I'm wrong.
uh, CM, if you read the authors own commentary on why she wrote the book, and why she included the (ONLY TWO) sexually explicit passages, it was BECAUSE she was already hearing middle school students talking about how common oral sex was, and how it had become almost a necessary thing in order to maintain social status.
it's not the books that are getting more "open", they are still trying to catch up to the teens themselves.
here ya go, in the author's own words:
so perhaps the privacy issue, as you perceive it, actually passed you by long, long ago.
this book, instead of being looked at as encouraging the "sexual revolution" should be thought of exactly as the author describes it instead.
It's pretty obvious that Granny is a set theorist.
(aside - sorry for the long delay responding, I've been away on a camping trip).
We are indeed clearly attaching very different meanings to the word "privacy". I'm using it to describe the means to choose not to reveal things you would rather not. What you're referring to is what I would call "secrecy", which I take to mean preventing people finding out things that other people would like to tell them.
Not sure how clear that is, but whatever....
cm,
just to clarify, I don't disagree that sex has become increasingly openly discussed, just that there was some confusion about terminology earlier.
cm,
Britney Spears, as a pop star, had very little to do with sex. Her schtick was using phrases and dress and body language which, in our culture, are code for sexual intent--without actually saying anything about what sex is, or what she wants to do during it, or anything like that.
If she did convey explicit information about sex, I'd be a lot less concerned about her impact on six-year-old girls. For one thing, most of them would be less interested in emulating her.
Do Mississippians ever thank God for Georgia...? Or is there South Carolina in between?