Here's a fun exercise: since we already have Christianity Today underwhelming us with the most compelling argument for Christianity, how about if we compile Pharyngula's list of "What is the FEEBLEST reason for becoming a Christian?"
I'll start with the easiest answer: all of them.
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And speaking of evidence for God, here's Matt Rossano putting forth an interesting idea:
Now this may seem too whimsical to be taken seriously, but the important point is this: however one envisions convincing scientific evidence of God, let's suppose we've got it. Let's further suppose that this…
We New Atheist types are often lectured about the need for studying theology. The idea is that if we tuned out the distressingly popular and highly vocal forms of religious extremism and pondered instead “the best religion has to offer,” then we would not be so hostile to religion. Recently,…
I imagine after the last few weeks, the idea of storing food isn't seeming quite so crazy to a lot of folks in the country, but still, I hear all the time "I want to start building up a reserve but my husband/sister/mother in law thinks this is nuts." So I thought I would repost this piece, on…
Remember a few posts back, when we saw Michael Ruse lecturing Richard Dawkins as follows:
More seriously, Dawkins is entirely ignorant of the fact that no believer-with the possible exception of some English clerics in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries-has ever thought that arguments are…
Pascal's Wager.
That was easy.
I'd have to say a frozen waterfall.
Because your imagination is so bad, you can't imagine the universe without a god.
"Turn over enough rocks, and sure enough, you'll find a god."
The Bible tells me it's true.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
So that I can control the girasas.
Lame reasons to believe:
Because my parents were Christians, and because I can't be bothered to make my own evaluations or decisions.
Because I don't really know what to think about it, but to be safe, I'll just keep my mouth shut and go along with everybody else.
Because all the Big People say it's true. Who am I to question them?
Becuase I feeel it in mi sole that its treu, and I just no it for a fcat. Athiests are just rong.
Because all those people who doubted me will find out the truth when they're dead, and someday when they're burning in Hell, I'll be up in Heaven watching, and I'll just laugh and laugh.
"Because if I didn't have the Bible to tell me how to act, I'd just run around killing and raping people and stealing their stuff!"
"Just look at all the..." (here the speaker has arms waving, and is making various gesticulations intended to convey the idea of the majesty of the universe but more effective at making the speaker look like a spastic duck) "...stuff, the great stuff in the world. How could all that happen by random chance?"
Altar boy fetish.
Because life has no meaning without God.
Actually, just "Because" on any believer's lips is more than plenty to make me puke.
Wait, let me try again:
The BANANA!
Because I'm NOT ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST!!!!
Yeah, I hate that one. ;-)
Because without God and baby Jebus what would stop us from killing, stealing, and raping each other?
Peanut butter.
Because the sun rises and sets and the tides come in and out (a la Bill O'Reilly).
PZ, yr ht cms thgh ld nd clr.
Jws rlly r rsd t ht Chrstns, rn't thy. hd lwys thght tht ws jst rmr.
Tht sd, wht th hll d yr rnts hv t d wth SCNC?
r y rlly sch dldd lr tht y thnk ths dvncs scnc?
[The Kansas trolls really don't like Jews, do they? By the way, I was raised as Lutheran. --pzm]
My sister asked "Which is He? Liar, lunatic, or Lord?"
She was somewhat in a tizzy, and she would not be ignored.
I suggested I was busy; she repeatedly implored;
Though the question left her dizzy, frankly I was simply bored.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.
"Because our country was founded on Christian Values".
But these sort of reasons are just rhetoric. The more feeble are the likes of:
"I believe..."
"I have personally experienced the presence of Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit/God/Saint [insert name]/Odin"
"God has spoken to me"
These are the products of truly feeble minds and the real barriers to any pretence of rationality.
Christianity's adherents.
Because when I look at the stars, I just know there has to be a God.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Brace yourselves, everyone, bigoted non sequitur incoming!
Yes, because everything on every website must relate back to the URL. Here's a clue, chachi: when religions stop making testable (and false) claims about the universe, then it will no longer promote science to point out the stupidity of religion.
Because you can't prove the christian god (or anything) doesn't exist.
Actually my vote for feeblest reason goes to "because the bible says the bible is true" but it was already listed.
The joy that comes from being a Xian.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
"personal revelation"
(p.s. let me know if anybody wants to hear my anecdote about Jerry Garcia's spacehelmet yet again)
You know what's really fun about this one? Even if a Jesus troll comes in on this thread and tries to preach, it will look like they're just answering PZ's call for bad reasons.
Some I hate:
--The ontological argument
--That thing about trying to prove there's no gold in China
--I ALMOST DIED ONCE
Ah, yes. "Being clumsily ridiculed by demented little pipsqueaks if you don't treat their beliefs with reverence" is an excellent example of a bad reason for being a Christian. Well done, sir, and you have a keen sense of irony.
...that was ironic, right?
Don't want to sound smug here, but I've obviously got the best reason for being a Christian (tis my name).
Because I was a stupid DRUG ADDICT, and now that I found CHRIST I have a new obsessive-compulsive disorder that I know to be THE TRUTH!!!!*
*Of course I didn't learn a damned thing while I was a hype, nor when I became a Xian, but I KNOW what is THE TRUTH.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
"Because when I look at the stars, I just know there has to be a God."
That's my personal fave. Substitute "sun setting over the ocean," "baby's face," etc, for stars.
Regarding Greg's comment, I love it when the anti-semitic kooks come out from under their rock.
I speak in tongues, the sign of the HOLY SPIRIT.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
The pope said so and he's infall infla infalllala uninflatable...
The Creation Museum.
Because Jesus has made me what I am today, a kind loving person whose only desire is to save others from their wickedness and well-deserved place in hell, belief in the false religion of evolution, and the secularist conspiracy called separation of church and state.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
I believe in Christianity because Jesus fulfilled 800 prophecies in the Old Testament (or was it just 323? Or just over 600?). Besides, how else can you get saved?
I saw three things. That reminds me of the trinity. Ergo Christianity is fundamentally true.
Well my personal reason, my mother needed a social circle and I was too young to resist; PRESTO! I'm a Christan!
The wine.
Because God talks to our dear, sweet, compassionate, English literate, competent, GREAT President
Choke, choke, cough, cough, hurl, hurl.
Ken
So that I CAN WRITE POSTS with huge numbers of CAPITALIZED WORDS which indicate how MUCH TRUTH I KNOW, and not incidentally, SO THAT I WILL NEVER HAVE TO LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT SCIENCE ever again because it's been RUINED BY ATHEISTS.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Because Jesus wants me to be!
Um, the links in the post are the wrong way round. . . .
Because PZ Myers says mean things about Christians. Nyyyaahh!
Well, there are a lot of bad reasons for being a Christian which even devout Christians would consider bad: I like the potlucks and dances; the minister is really nice; the church is pretty, etc. The only GOOD reason to be a Christian -- one which I can respect -- is that you have thoughtfully considered the issue and you believe that Christianity is factually true.
Not because it "works." Not because it's a great social club or form of personal therapy. All religions work. They can all help you make friends and they can all help you become a "better person." Ditto for philosophies or service organizations or fan clubs. But if you consciously select becoming a "Christian" I think you should have enough integrity to believe what it's supposed to be about.
Not that there isn't plenty of wiggle-room on "what it's supposed to be about," of course.
That said, here are some of my favorite worst arguments for the existence of God (all have been personally encountered):
1.) The Wind Argument: You believe in the wind, even though you don't see it. So you should believe in God, because you can't see Him either. Or else you shouldn't believe in the wind, either.
2.) The Argument from Feeling: If atheists are right, then the world is a bleak and uncaring place. Choosing to reject this because it feels wrong is an act of courage and wisdom. After all, there are things science can't explain -- like how the universe couldn't be the way we don't want it to be.
3.) The Argument from Desire: If God doesn't exist, then how come we desire God?
4.) The Argument from Santa Claus: Didn't you once believe in Santa Claus? Well, God is just like Santa Claus -- except he's REAL! If you did it once, you can do it again.
5.) The Argument from Measuring Love: You can't measure love, or see it under a microscope, or hold it in your hand. But it's real. If you don't believe in God because you can't scientifically prove Him, then you've no right to believe in Love, either. But you do! So you should!
I could go on (no, really), but that's enough for now.
I don't personally believe in Christianity, but it's good for the common man.
Also- I hate Jews and fags- so that ties in nicely.
And it looks like Judgment Day is online now.
The talking burning bush.
I had a burning bush back in the 80's. But it didn't say anything. f*cking crabs I caught from a sleeping bag in basic training.
Pygmies and dwarfs?
Faith.*
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
*I know it's been said in other ways, but I wanted that word here.
Because evolution is obviously wrong- so God made us. (I've never once seen a duck turn into a rabbit.)
Because one part of the Bible says that there were five hundred witnesses to something which happened in another part of the Bible!
Because it's my unshakable faith in Jesus that lets me handle these deadly rattlesnakes and black mambOUCH! Um.... um........ um..........
Because Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.*
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
*Said with an emphasis that brooks no doubt.
Doubt and skepticism are sins, so I have never doubted the truth of Xianity.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Archaeology has proven the truth that David lived and was king of Israel, which means that there is no doubt that the Bible is God's Word.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Glen D. #50: My minister father, when he realized I didn't believe, tried to convince me that faith was, in and of itself, a good and worthy thing. I was young then, and so astonished I had no answer for that.
ha. silly christians, there is only one divine dictator, his name is allah, and mohammud is his prophet. now die infidels.
"Atheists think they are God..."
Pascal's wager
"there would be no morality if there were no great homophobic bigot in the sky" is probably the worst
Because I don't have complete knowledge of the universe like God does. (see "turn over enough stones...")
"Christianity is all about forgiveness. They just did a study which discovered that people who forgive other people and move on with their lives are happier, more content, and better adjusted than people who carry grudges and dwell on the past. Therefore, we now have empirical, scientific proof for Christianity. Atheists can't account for that."
Because of marrying a Christian.
Because of politics.
Because of Jesus Camp (just such a sad, sad reason).
Because of a desire to look down on others.
Because of a nonmiraculous "answered prayer".
Because of the ability to go on tv, claim a deity is going to kill you if viewers don't pay out, and then collect checks.
C'mon, one of those has to be a winner, right?
Because Pop takes us out to the Bonanza Steakhouse for lunch after services...
The Argument from Incomplete Disaster
782 people died in the plane crash but 2 survived. Only God could have saved them.
Would it be bad to become Christian just to listen to the hilarity of the reasoning in church cell groups? I practically beg a coworker for stories of his cell (yes, they're really called that). He refers to me as "Satan-worshipper" (which of course isn't true, but he also makes a point that he likes to paint a picture without the intrusion of actual facts.)
Foxholes!
Here's a great list of truly pitiful reasons to be a Xian:
www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/design-all-the-way-down/#com…
Thank you bornagain77. You even say it all as if it made sense.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Because I am scared to face life on life's terms.
The touching part (and I don't completely mean that sarcastically) of it is that just because you have no answer for a non sequitur, they think they were being profound.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
Because people worship science* when they no longer believe in God.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
*A number of words can be substituted for "science," like communism (in the past), money, reason...
"I just believe."
Glen D:
Admirable. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you are a veritable mountain of crap this evening... ;)
Flirty fishing
Because Ann Coulter told me to.
Thank you, thank you, but I still have to bow to Bornagain77 as the grandmaster.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
"There are a lot of different religions and a lot of different Gods, but Jesus is the ONLY ONE that sacrificed Himself for US, and died for our sins. That means he's real, and the others aren't."
If hell doesn't exist, and we can't go there when we die, then life has no meaning.
Because I like getting all gussied up on Sunday mornings. At church, I like to rank the other women in the congregation according to how properly I think they are dressed.
Either that, or it's because I want to shorten my prison sentence.
Because I am NOT a satan worshiper!!! I have MORELS! AND ETHICACIES! I doN"T Murder People!!!!!! what the hell is WRONG with you?!
"Because I need to have meaning in my life, otherwise what's the point?"
Because science doesn't have all of the answers.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
All of you are sooo making the baby Jesus cry.
I can't decide between the banana, peanut butter, and PYGMIES + DWARFS.
My personal Fav.
The argument from narcisism
There must be a God because life must have transcendent meaning, otherwise why would I be here? How can the rich wonder of existence that is ME be the product of blind forces and cosmic chance? Don't you dare tell me I evolved from a primate and thus rob me of the false dignity I've spent my entire life propping up!!!
Oh and Christianity is the most humble of religions too.
I declare Ross Nixon TEH WINNAR based on his comment in an earlier thread:
One of the most compelling arguments for Christianity is that it is so completely different to any man-made religion, that it can't be man made.
Beat that!!!!
Because I don't want to offend my parents.
Because I can sense, inside my mind, that there is a God.
Look at it this way. The only way anyone knows that people have, say, lucid dreams is that people describe something that happens inside their mind. There is no scientific way to tell that a person is having a lucid dream (or any dream, for that matter) other than measuring brain activity. The only way we know that some people have lucid dreams is that people report their experiences.
Since lucid dreams are no more objectively observable than experiencing god, should we tell the lucid dreamers that they are deluded? Should we say that they just think they had such an experience later, but that at the time the lucid dream didn't happen?
Ok that wasn't really a feeble reason, that's one of the toughest ones to answer, in my opinion. I don't personally "sense" there is a god, but it is very hard to argue against someone who says they do.
Because I can feel it in my heart.
You are on fire tonight, Glen D. No, I mean that literally.
I would have answered in all caps, but I don't want to get banned. You'll just have to imagine 34 exclamation points here.
Because I do not have enough faith to be an Atheist.
robbrown wrote:
But "experiencing God" isn't analogous to someone having a lucid dream. It's analogous to someone claiming "it wasn't a lucid dream, it MUST have really happened because it felt real to me. Other people are only having lucid dreams, though."
"You are on fire tonight, Glen D. No, I mean that literally."
For real?
e^(i.GOD) + 666/KOOKS + 0 = 7G * (T+R+U+T+H+L+O+V+E) * PI /365[*] + k
[*] 366 in a leap year.
Possibly the most beautiful and complete equation in all of science.
If God didn't exist, animals would eat their young.
(funny in two ways!)
Since lucid dreams are no more objectively observable than experiencing god, should we tell the lucid dreamers that they are deluded? Should we say that they just think they had such an experience later, but that at the time the lucid dream didn't happen?
No, a lucid dream is a lucid dream. Unless they are saying the dream was real without corroborating, independent evidence. They it's cool to say they are deluded like the person experiencing god.
see "All things dull and ug-a-ly..." by Monty Python.
(But hold your hands over your ears and sing "lalala" when you get to the line "...each beastly little squid...")
'Cause if you're a Christian(tm), you get to put a clever little fishie logo magnet on your SUV - if you're a really good Christian(tm), you can get a fishie eating a Darwin fishie!
So I can live forever. So far, so good. ;-)
I've quoted this before, but I find it so perfectly appalling.
Thomas Aquinas:
"i don't understand evolution, therefore God"
A combination of the incomplete disaster argument and the narcissism argument:
"My son/daughter/mother/father/brother/sister had a disease with a 10% survival rate, and he/she survived! Therefore God."
'My daughter was born with one leg shorter than the other. The doctors said they couldn't do anything about it. We prayed to Jesus Christ for her condition to be healed. Her short leg got longer. The doctors could not explain this. Therefore, God.'
Yes, I've heard this from a Young-Earth Creationist who seemed entirely genuine. I assume there are millions of similarly touching stories, all of which require an answer to the questions 1)'Why did God let that happen in the first place?' and 2) 'What about all those other people who pray for healing and nothing happens? What makes you so special?'
Considering that, on average, theists really have no reason for believing in whatever god they believe in, the answer really is "all of them". Your average Christian, Jew, or Muslim doesn't know what the ontological proof is (dentist's vodka?) or the transcendental proof (more than one dentist's vodka?), or any of the other sort of "formal" reasons for believing in gods.
They believe because they grew up in it, which is not to say, I think, that they're any less intelligent because of that, but it's very easy to fall into that particular trap if you grew up in a theist community.
... sex with guilt-ridden Catholic girls.
Maybe not so feeble, but a hot nasty time is had by all.
To be like Jeffrey Dahmer.
Because they played Bob Marley at the sushi restaurant.
42.
Because church girls are easy.
Everyone needs to believe in something (so I believe I will have another whiskey).
I'm sure someone has probably posted these but just about any of the following should qualify as a pretty lousy reason for believing in a Xian god.
http://www.geocities.com/lclane2/TQM.html
God's total quality management questionnaire
What factors were relevant in your decision to acquire a God? Please check all that apply.
___ Indoctrinated by parents
___ Needed a reason to live
___ Indoctrinated by society
___ Needed target for rage
___ Imaginary friend grew up
___ Hate to think for self
___ Wanted to meet girls/boys
___ Fear of death
___ To piss off parents
___ Needed a day away from work
___ Enjoy organ music
___ Needed focus on whom to despise
___ Needed to feel morally superior
___ Graduated from the tooth fairy
___ My shrubbery caught fire and told me to do it
"I can't decide between the banana, peanut butter, and PYGMIES + DWARFS."
Hey, why decide when together they make a tasty sandwich?
The cookies given to me when I was a small child.
That's also the best reason I have, come to think.
Mayhem: You don't have to join up for that. Trust me.
The bible has such beautiful poetry.
(apart from all the really tedious crappy bits)
There was this guy who was in hospital and really sick and we prayed that the surgeons and the drugs and the advanced technology and the intensive care would save him and he lived, yay.
The farting judge jones animation convinced me that science and materialism were all wrong.
Scientists don't know everything.
PZ and Dawkins spew hatred ( "write intelligently in plain english" is less convincing, don't use that)
"I once met this girl who said she was into the holy trinity..."
___ Enjoy organ music
Oh that's a good one...
Because many intelligent people throughout history were Christian.
(Heard this one on a radio ad for Billy Graham)
Bobrobsbob- "Because I am NOT a satan worshiper!!! I have MORELS!"
My first thought? Mmm, morels. Morels are tasty.
"Because the bible is the word of our lord, Jesus Christ ... and that word is true ... and I know it's true because the bible tells me it is. Why can't you understand that - are you stoopid, or somethin'?"
:)
My first encounter with Pascal's Wager came from a character who looked like a hobo who accosted me at, I think, age 14 in a newsstand in Alamogordo, N.M. As I recall, I was leafing through Howard the Duck #1 when the man, who was also rather old, approached me without invitation and grabbed my hand. I still remember the incredibly soft, collapsed feeling of his work-worn hands as he explained how a preacher had explained that he had everything to gain by believing in God and nothing to lose. Including, I suppose, any worries about scaring the willies out of yours truly. So I'm definitely no fan of this argument being dropped out of the blue as a justification for this or that lifestyle choice.
All the same, I shake my head at this litany of objections, many of which have little to do with the Gospel or character of Jesus but seem more directed at the things that self-described believers do, rather than those things they claim to believe.
Now, I realize that anything from my Christian lips is automatically suspect, but would it be too much to distinguish between bad arguments for the supernatural in general and bad arguments that point specifically to Christianity? Pascal was a Christian, but refuting his Wager does not refute a specifically Christian claim---it simply kicks out a leg of support for theism, a leg which may or may not be rotten.
I would like to add that people of all stripes often fail to appreciate that there is much more to Pascal's Wager than an inference for God. This leads to a caricature that seems, paradoxically, to be equally beloved of both apologists and critics of religion. But don't take my word for it. Read this entry in the SEP for a more detailed discussion.
Anyway, since y'all are having a good time with this, I've been thinking about mounting a list of criticisms specific to Christianity, in particular with those items from scripture or tradition which seem internally inconsistent. I'd be interested in anything you folk would care to nominate. Send your specifically anti-Christian comments to me at: epigene13@gmail.com and I'll incorporate them in a future post on my blog.
Cheers....SH
Taken directly from Judgement Day (the batty hausfrau in the beginning):
So she is either channeling the caliph Umar prior to the Muslim sacking of Alexandria, or (as I suspect), for her it's just easier than thinking.
Perfect!
I can't top that. I'm trying, but it's just never going to work.
I salute you!
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
-- C.S. Lewis
Until the 20th Century, both materialists & theists assumed that we live in a relatively static universe. Nobody predicted that the universe could expand until Edwin Hubble supplied empirical evidence from the measurement of galactic red shifts. Even Einstein's General Relativity implies the possibility of an expanding universe, but Einstein with his unexamined assumptions about cosmology inherited from antiquity added the Cosmological Constant to counteract an idea he couldn't form the new neural pathways to appreciate.
Materialists and theists both struck out on this one, in other words, because reality operates according to its own rules that we have to determine empirically.
PZ: "I'll start with the easiest answer: all of them."
Certainly! ... but don't be surprised if you see a lot of that from your students on your next multiple choice test ;-)
I got quite a few interesting arguments from my parents when I stopped going to church. One of my personal favorites was being asked, "what are you going to do when you have to face the judgment seat [insert dramatic music]." I also got to face the 'fear' of getting kicked out of the house during that whole ordeal. Because really, what better way to make someone appreciate your religion then by threatening them with homelessness and supernatural chairs.
So no kittens will die.
Scott:
It's worth noting that many of the "bad arguments for Christianity" we're citing here, while they would seem to be generally applicable re: theism in general, have been cited repeatedly as support specfically for Christianity, by professed Christians, hence their inclusion here.
I'm not about to search through and see if this has been mentioned.
Because morality cannot come from a non-Divine source.
Boo! If you don't kill because a sky-daddy commands such, you're a worthless human being.
Just cuz.
The Virgin Birth. C'mon, that's impossibe without God and immaculate conception!
"Because I used to be an atheist, but then..."
The worst reason is that you might end up having long conversations with Dinesh D'Souza.
The lousy dental plan - especially in light of all the shit you have to swallow.
"What is the FEEBLEST reason for becoming a Christian?" Because mom, dad, grandparents, great grandparents, were christians. The history of all christian families includes the relentless brainwashing of children going back many centuries. The same for muslims and jews. Which invisible man in the clouds a person believes in depends entirely on what they were trained to believe since the age of 2.
FRIDAY MORNING MUSIC CLUB
To a Young Poet who Killed Himself
by: Joyce Kilmer
When you had played with life a space
And made it drink and lust and sing,
You flung it back into God's face
And thought you did a noble thing.
"Lo, I have lived and loved," you said,
"And sung to fools too dull to hear me.
Now for a cool and grassy bed
With violets in blossom near me."
Well, rest is good for weary feet,
Although they ran for no great prize;
And violets are very sweet,
Although their roots are in your eyes.
But hark to what the earthworms say
Who share with you your muddy haven:
"The fight was on -- you ran away.
You are a coward and a craven."
The rug is ruined where you bled;
It was a dirty way to die!
To put a bullet through your head
And make a silly woman cry!
You could not vex the merry stars
Nor make them heed you, dead or living.
Not all your puny anger mars
God's irresistible forgiving.
Yes, God forgives and men forget,
And you're forgiven and forgotten.
You may be gaily sinning yet
And quick and fresh instead of rotten.
And when you think of love and fame
And all that might have come to pass,
Then don't you feel a little shame?
And don't you think you were an ass?"
Damn you Phil...we miss you so much.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xxB_0LTfTQk
Has no one said this one yet?
"Because there are real places and people in the Bible, like Egypt and Herod, and therefore it must be true!"
Because there are lots of copies of the Bible.
Because an old philosopher with a shot memory endorsed Deism.
Because it's hard to figure out how the early Christians came up with their beliefs, and obviously we understand perfectly well the origin of every other cult on earth.
BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS THAT CHRISTIANITY IS TRUE AND THE FACT THAT YOU DENY IT JUST CONFIRMS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT UNBELIEVERS.
Because if you don't, I'm going to sodomize you in the church basement behind the cooler of Kool-aid. Again.
Because everything couldn't have just happened on its own, it had to be started by something (that happened on its own.)
To protect my kids from being corrupted by the degenerate modern culture.
Because it's arrogant, self-centered, narcissistic, etc. to believe that I am not personally a special creation of the divine creator of the universe.
Because reading those Left Behind books that I bought at Walmart really frightened me.
Because my lawyer says it'll help me get paroled.
Because I want to work for Answers in Constant Lying (answersingenesis).
I'd definitely go with the banana as one of the feeblest arguments.
As for why I do (in spite of the banana argument rather than because of it) consider myself a Christian, there is a discussion of a post of mine on that subject taking place on the Debunking Christianity blog that some may find interesting:
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2007/11/dr-james-mcgrath-on-w…
Because a life that does not go on forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever, either in the torments of hell, or in a heaven full of the "special" people, would be meaningless.
To which I say: Oh, boo-fucking-hoo! You're going to die, so fucking what! Get over yourself, you fucking moron.
1/4" of rain.
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/stories/2007/11/15/weather_1116.h…
SH- With all do respect the above has little to do with the reasons either. And frankly most of what they have said on this thread is what is tossed about by the majority of Christians.
Because Britney Spears is.
James,
I read your post and you and I share alot of common ground. Your fideistic approach has some traction with me even as I know the strength of the arguments rests with those who are the majority of this blog.
Your approach for the most part is honest. Your where raised with it.
Bekause Paris Hilton is!!!
And I hear she got time off probayshun for it, too!
The fire insurance.
Because we get to live in a cave.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/15/doomsday.cult/index.html
Har.
Of course I didn't literally mean Glen was on fire. I was kidding.
God done it!
Because without god there is no way for me to stop drinking/smoking dope. By the way, congratulate me because tonight I have 2 days clean for the 165th time this year, all ups to H.P.!
Because it makes me happy.
How about
"...Because I have managed to redefine and rework virtually every tenet and belief found in Christianity till it makes reasonable, secular sense -- and therefore this is the grand story which 'speaks to me' and illuminates my life."
Because Jimmy Swaggart, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Kenneth copeland, Pat Robertson, Peter Popoff, Ted Haggard and Oral Roberts can't ALL be wrong!!
And because Rev. Hagee scares me.
Because I want to spend all of eternity giving praise to the big sky daddy.
because I am unwilling to choose my own purpose in life
because its easier to learn all my ethics from a book than to come up with them myself through life experiences and my own sense of right and wrong
because my current life sucks and to make it better I find solace that it will be better when I die
because its comforting to know someone else is determining what happens in my life
#155 is particuarlly good.
Late to the party, but how about:
Because of god's sense of humor shown by creating things like the giraffe!
(actually heard when I was growing up)
Because God didn't create no monkeys God created man, you stinkin monkey lovers!
Because the thing I hate most about reality is the fact that it won't answer my prayers. Ergo, the thing I hate most about existence is the fact that it exists.
[An erstwhile acquaintance of mine gave this as his reason for being a Christian.]
Some real lame reasons:
Eventually, when all the data is in on a question, and all the ways of analyzing it have been compared, the preponderance of the evidence tilts heavily in favor of Christianity.
I believe simply because I cannot not believe.
...because of what I read in the bible, what I see in other Christians and what I have experienced for myself, of this I am convinced: this world was created by Christ and He is in charge of all things, including me.
So that I can look down on other people.
Because I'm scared of dying. It's incomprehensible to me that someone as important to me as me might actually not be important after all.
Not having any reason to celebrate Christmas.
Christianjb @ #51:
Then what do you make of this transitional form?
James Thurber wrote a piece that purported to be a series of letters to an advice columnist who helped people with pet-related problems. One reader wrote in to say that his pet duck looked listless and out of sorts, and included a picture. The columnist replied that the first problem with the duck was that it was actually a rabbit looking in the other direction.
1) Fear.
2) Everyone else in my hemisphere is doing it.
3) Thinking your girlfriend will finally give it up.
3) Thinking your girlfriend will finally give it up.
WTF?
3.) The Argument from Desire: If God doesn't exist, then how come we desire God?"
So you mean I actually AM married to Sela Ward? (and Ashley Judd? And Angela Bassett? And Winona Ryder? And Penelope Cruz? and Halle Berry? and Rosario Dawson? etc. etc.)
Because God hates...
Sorry, I can't continue. I think you know where this goin', though.
In case you don't, though, just think Westboro.
@Sastra (#155): "...Because I have managed to redefine and rework virtually every tenet and belief found in Christianity till it makes reasonable, secular sense -- and therefore this is the grand story which 'speaks to me' and illuminates my life."
Gee, Sastra, you say that like it's a bad thing.
Because....
We [Christians] delight in sexual playfulness and creative ways to pleasure one another, but unless it is not physically possible for a couple, we think nothing you do should completely replace genital union. The symbolism of having the embrace of vagina to penis and total giving of the erect penis to the welcoming vaginal canal is a recurring reminder that we were created for each other. The intimacy of that connectedness should awaken our most primitive desire for oneness. To enjoy sexual release in that most passionate form of embrace welds us into oneness like few other experiences.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/mp/2001/001/4.34.html
Jesus loves me, this I know
For the Bible tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
They are weak but He is strong.
Yes Jesus loves me
Yes Jesus loves me
Yes Jesus loves me
The Bible tells me so.
That was my reason... when I was six years old.
Oh Hell! Now it's going to be jangling around in my head for the next week or so. Hope it's not contagious!
Because a loud, public conversion might help save me from the death penalty if enough people complain to the governor?
Oh, and Chick Tracts. Definitely the Chick Tracts.
Because...
Let me introduce the Disciple's Cross™ home-based business opportunity. The Disciple's Cross™ is a hand-made cross necklace, that is available in a multitude of colors, and it sells like crazy. [...] When you become a Certified Disciple's Cross™ Producer, you'll get a complete starter kit that contains everything you need to get started in this incredible opportunity. Disciple's Cross™ necklaces are easy to make. Once you have learned the basic steps (thanks to my step-by-step training video), you will be able to create these precious crosses in about 5 minutes.
http://www.disciplescross.com/
-Catholics promised my ancestors they'd stop bandits from pillaging their village.
-Free dinner on Wednesdays!
-Hitler was an atheist and Einstein believed in god!
-You can suck but still make money as a christian rock band.
-Pancake revealed the truth of god to me!
So I don't ever, ever, ever have to feel alone again.
And...
I thought this was brilliant! :-D
"-Pancake revealed the truth of god to me!"
For me it was the grilled cheese sandwich.
Heh. Just remembered an old joke:
So I'll have somebody to talk to during orgasm!
Another old joke: So at my funeral I won't be "all dressed up with no place to go."
Well, I was going to say that if I put my faith and trust in Jesus, he would guide me to make all the right decisions for a glorious life.
But then CalGeorge and Hank Fox started talking about all that sex stuff, and it reminded me of my own deeply felt "religious" experiences.
.... oh god, oh god, oh god!
The grilled cheese
Dammit, too slow.
Oral Roberts is still alive.
Well, I kinda have to to use the money, don't I?
Because faith is a virtue.
Because it's a virtue to believe in things that have no evidence.
Because jesus died for my sins.
Because jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
Because jesus fullfilled prophecy.
Because I want to be free from the bondage of sin.
Because without my belief in god, I would murder babies for the fun of it.
Because so many people around the world couldn't be wrong.
I actually had someone tell me that's why people should believe in Christianity and that's why they do.
Because I need the strong authority of a celestial daddy figure, and by extension the church, to keep me in line?
Because the rust stain in my tub that looks vaguely like a bearded man told me to?
Because I am afraid that the truth of my, nay, everyones meaningless existence will drive me mad?
Because 5 billion people can't be wrong.
Because the bible says there's a god, and the bible said the bible is the truth.
Because I've been living in this little hick infested town in the deep south all my life and I never met anyone who admitted being an atheist.
Because there's no evidence for macro-evolution.
I didn't see arc just said the same thing I said - that many people can't be wrong. I have also heard this explanation for why there must be a god.
No crocaducks
@141, "Because my lawyer says it'll help me get paroled."
Damned if that isn't the best reason I've ever seen.
Actually reason given by a friend:
"Because all of those wars were fought in the name of religion."
Right now, anything about the sanctity/truth of scripture. Or Jesus fulfilling OT prophecies. It's easy to fulfill prophecies when you can simply take any random line from a myriad of sources as "prophecy."
All Christian theology is just over-interpretation of previous over-interpretation, all ultimately going back to the Torah. Which we know is just a badly edited compilation of myth.
Because I have faith and thus I don't need to give reasons for it.
Because I need to know that my existence has some sort of meaning.
Because my parents were.
Because I haven't really thought about it.
The rejoinders by Azkyroth (#124) and Uber (#146) are on the mark, but if what most Christians cite as why they believe is not distinctive to Christianity, then I think we can conclude that, in their case, belief is really a product of circumstance, rather than reason.
And there seems to be a growing body of evidence suggesting that we 'rational creatures' tend to come to conclusions, then only attempt to rationalize our choices post facto.
Now, I suspect that a lot of people on either side of the ontological fence where Big Sky Daddy is concerned will find that disconcerting, a body blow to notions of free will and such. It raises questions about whether or not our propensity to believe (or conversely, to doubt) can be studied objectively---and, I subsequently rationalize, perhaps just one more 'reason' for my interest in the nature of belief.
Playfully...SH
Because me and Mr Shrek wantr be just like that Duggar family and all those other QuiverFull families blessed with 17 young uns.
Arguments for Christianity?
Nature? It's just not natural, so it must be designed.
Pascal was a Christian, but refuting his Wager does not refute a specifically Christian claim---it simply kicks out a leg of support for theism...
Not quite. Christianity has 'perfected' this wager by defining the payback as "infinite" and putting the emphasis on belief. All theistic traditions don't even include an afterlife, some don't include rewards in the afterlife, and some put the emphasis on deeds to get the rewards. If you change the terms of the bet, it need not be an argument for theism, agnosticism + performing the necessary rituals is just as good. For example:
"Can you afford not to sacrifice humans to Odin: you don't want to end up in the afterlife with no servants, do you?"
Because all those other religions are just crazy!
Top Eleven Worst Reasons For Being A Christian:
1) Free wine.
2) Only way to drink human blood and hang a miniature torture device around your neck without looking like a weirdo.
3) Can ask omniscient creator of the universe to find your car keys.
4) Great way to scare the kids into not misbehaving.
5) Read the bible closely enough, you can find an justification for *everything*.
6) Get to run your own planet in the afterlife (male Mormons only).
7) Can rebuke others for taking the Lord's name in vain.
8) Can take the Lord's teachings in vain.
9) None of that pesky free will (Calvinists only).
10) Science textbooks are only 10 pages long.
11) After death, get to watch Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Sikhs, Bahá'í, Wiccans, Zoroastrians, Rastafarians, Native Americans, Jainists, Scientologists, various tribal people, atheists, agnostics, and every other Christian that doesn't agree with you precisely scream and burn for all eternity in a lake of fire!
My dad said so...
While, like Cuttlefish, I was going to raise Lord-Liar-Lunatic as the stupidest answer, I think #46 has it nailed. Ultimately when you're deluded you can expect to say crazy things, but wanting other, "lesser" people to be deluded when you're not is just disgusting.
cuz I used to be a pole-smokin faggot.
see it was the DEMONS made me do it.
but the lord put his hands on me, and now I am CURED!!!
I have been married for 10 years now, praise the lord.
(you know how drunk i gotta get to pile on my wife? hope the church doesn't find out about me sneaking into the city for a little quality man luvin)
jesus forgive me.
My daddy was christian, and he said he would beat the shit out me if i didn't get up and go to church.
The transcendental argument. Basically the proposition that there exists precisely one logically coherent belief system, and Christianity is it.
The best/feeblest reason I can recall being given (and I've heard many in my time) came after I'd been debating a Mormon who was insisting that Adam and Eve existed but that he also believed in evolution. I think I made a pretty competent stab at explaining why this was incoherent, but I was then struck down by this killer argument:
"I have just felt the holy spirit pass through me, and it has confirmed to me that I am right."
Oh, OK. That settles it then.
Because I'm too lazy and absent-minded to be a polytheist. I mean, come on, do you know how much work it is to memorize all the names of all the different deities of, oh, the Celts? Having a "one-for-all" is just way easier.
Small free portions of bread and wine (or is that flesh and blood?).
1) Why would we use BC and AD in our year dates, if Christ did not exist? Doh.
2) Jesus loves me therefore He exists. (Since Jesus goes on and on about eternal damnation in the New Testament, with lovers like him, who needs enemies?)
I'm sure someone has posted something similar but my worst reason (and probably most common) is:
Because thinking hurts...
One cloudy day, I prayed "Oh please Lord, if you are there, please just give me sign." At that precise moment, a gap in the clouds let the sun shine down on me, and I knew he was there, and that he listens to me.
I don't like the smell of char-broiled flesh...
especially when it is mine.
I don't like the idea of being in the clinical state commonly referred to as "Dead". Jesus will let me live forever.
OK, I'm done for now...
... because we can forgive the Republicans and Holy Men who are cross dressers, closet homosexuals, masochists, sadists, pedophiles, drug addicts and whore lovers.
Hey! I can "shift gears for Jesus", 'cause I have a gen U ine "Jeessus" gear shift knob.
Because it is (or once was) the manly thing to do...
For 2,000 years the church has been ruled by real men and served real wine at the Lord's Table. But ever since the 1920s, churches of every stripe have been slowly emasculated and feminized. Even churches that don't allow women to preach or hold office are still highly feminized. I remember going to a Baptist church once that required men to shave their facial hair a sign of "separation from the world." What? I guess it doesn't matter that Jesus, our Lord and Savior, wore a beard.
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive2007/08-24-07.asp
My name is John Wayne, and I approved this message.
"Christianity. Because, chances are, your HMO won't pay for an elective lobotomy."
Cos any god that sends his son to be whipped and crucified is my kind of twisted motherfucker.
And a few more Worst Reasons For Being A Christian:
12) You're incapable of understanding any moral code not based entirely on fear.
13) Jesus will make you stop being gay.
14) Can show small children snuff films without child services getting involved.
15) Love the witty church sign messages.
16) Always found Tinky Winky sexually attractive, glad that you're really just a victim of the seductive homosexual agenda.
17) Join America's most powerful group so you can complain about being oppressed without the bother of experiencing any actual oppression!
18) Jeffrey Dahmer said so.
Doesn't get much feebler than this:
"Believe in Christianity because Jesus Christ claimed to be God in flesh."
Because your parents took you to church as a child and all your friends were Christians and you seemed to have a knack for bible cricket!
And it is so sad looking back that those reasons were enough to keep me going to church for around 15 years.
Alterboy? Siamang, damn dude, you win.
'cos I had a couple extra wetsuits and a dildo lying around, and wondered what I could do with them.
Because I'm no kin to a monkey.
Because there were witnesses to the resurrection of the maggot infested corpse of jesus.
Because that movie "The Exorcist" made me afraid of being possessed by demons.
And also because Cecil B. DeMille made "The Ten Commandments", and that movie "The Robe" made me cry.
And because Mel Gibson showed us how Jesus suffered.
To the people who ask what this has to do with science, I would point to Bush's veto of a funding increase for the NIH.
More science would be going on if we were not ruled by anti-science Christian fundamentalists. Dontcha think? Why should we sit back and let their reasoning be granted a special status of being above criticism, when it so directly affects everybody's lives?
My answer for the question at the top is the same as #1. Pascal's wager has always seemed to me to be insipid avoidance of logic, and yet I know fairly well-educated people who are happy to be ruled by this kind of silliness. They are the same people who ask "well, what does it hurt to have the child baptized anyway, even if you're an atheist?"
I suppose I should stop complaining and start selling insurance to these people.
My standard answer to 123 is "Be surprised and thankful that I still exist."
Because... nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
So you can get Christmas presents.
Because cheeses died on the cross, and three days later, his zombie came out and started eating brains. Then he ate mine. Now I are christer.
Because if you weren't Christian, you'd be one of those...
Athesists!
And atheists are creepy weirdos who corrupt children with, uh, logic and facts and other tools of the Devil.
'Cause I need sex to be forbidden and dirty to get off on it.
Here's one of the lousiest excuses I've seen, from a Christian Blogger:
Because Catholic girls are easy.
Well that really is pretty silly, you might even say stupid but I'll play nice. He hasn't the faintest idea about logic or reason but he can pretend he does to get through the day.
Strange. Most Catholic clergy are shaved, but that's just the Roman tradition -- not all are, and that includes several popes.
On the other hand, Orthodox monks and AFAIK priests let their hair and beard grow wild to show that they don't care about their body or the world in general anymore, while Catholic monks are shaved and used to have tonsure to show humility.
Because Christianity is the only religion that lets me be a polytheist and a monotheist at the very same time.
Sastra (#45):
craig (#170):
Hey, I am married to Winona Ryder. Actually, I'm married to the Winona Ryder of Dracula and having an affair with the Winona Ryder of Beetlejuice.
Because if God doesn't exist, then who keeps hiding the remote?
"So you mean I actually AM married to Sela Ward? (and Ashley Judd? And Angela Bassett? And Winona Ryder? And Penelope Cruz? and Halle Berry? and Rosario Dawson? etc. etc.)"
Not now, in heaven.
Inflammable, maybe?
#235, that is the transcendental argument mentioned in #206, and it gets my vote for worst reason to be a Xian (or anything, though amazingly, presuppositional Xian apologists claim it only works for them). It is completely stupid and meaningless. "A naturalistic worldview can't provide the foundation for using reason to defend anything..." Oh, really? That's just arbitrary, unsubstantiated nonsense. Their whole argument translates to "We define our position to be correct; therefore, we are correct," and it illustrates better that anything how seemingly intelligent people become jaw-droppingly stupid when they decide that reality is obligated to conform to their silly, solipsistic desires.
I actually worked with a guy who claimed that Jesus "called him out" of his homosexuality.
I told him that was terrific, told him how special he was, and asked him why Jesus couldn't be bothered to do the same thing with the rest of the gay community.
He babbled on and on about people not listening to the Gospel or something. I really can't remember what he said, because by that time I was too bored with the conversation to commit it to my long-term memory.
#224: I actually worked with a guy who claimed that Jesus "called him out" of his homosexuality.
Jesus turns guys straight? Why did he call himself a "Fisher of Men" then?
Because waterfalls occasionally freeze.
They do!
prorsus credibile est, quia ineptum est
The company you keep:
I figured the thread needed a Godwin moment. :)
Yeah, I realize I'm repeating a lot of what's already been said, but here're mine, anyway (the quoted ones being ones I've heard recently enough to remember who told me). I really can't decide if the first or second is the one that irritates me most.
Because "evolution contradicts the second law of thermodynamics."
I'm a Christian because the bacterial flagellum is irreducibly complex.
Oh, and if you make a joke of it and say, "Please, FSM," you're still really religious on the inside.
I can't tell whether this is a good argument or a bad one, but how about this:
"Because God came down from Heaven and stopped those motherfuckin' bullets!"
Yet another boring post by PZ.
The amount of non-content here is amazing.
How about a little science every couple of weeks or so
(after all this IS on scienceblogs, right?).
There has to be other websites where all these
brave free thinkers can go bloviate about
their faith.
Change of subject:
What's the best reason to follow His Noodliness?
I can think of a few. Rather, I could, if I wasn't so hungry right now.
Dude, have a look at the main page. Just one short look.
Come ON people! Not one of these answers is right (wthough the Banana and Peanut Butter came closest). The correct answer is There are NO good reasons to become a Christian
sheesh
Hey Siamang- I'm gonna agree with Tom Foss on this one. By the way,. you forgot about the COKE CAN and the ABSOLUTE INERRENCY OF THE BIBLE. Why? BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS IT'S INERRENT. Never fails to crack me up.
dave borja:
Yes, that is a very feeble excuse to be Christian.
From another website (see if you can guess which):
"Many people have asked me, "X, how do you see God?" This always surprises me, because the answer is so obvious: first unrealize what you think you know, then transform faith into vision by turning the world upside-down and inside-out and converting time into space. It works every time."
Because the Bible provides such good moral guidance.
And all those parts about genocide and killing the infants of your enemies? Well, the Bible says it, therefore God says it, therefore it must be morally good.
I swear to dog. A commenter in my blog actually made this argument. Ingrid and I have taken to calling him "Senor McGenocide Pants."
Oh, yeah. And the accuracy of Biblical prophecy. Including the ones about the permanent destruction of cities that are still standing thousands of years later.
And how could something have come from nothing? It couldn't. Therefore, God created the Universe. And God came from... well, God is magic, therefore He could always have existed. But non-magic things like the universe -- impossible. Only magic things can have always existed.
And ditto on the flagellum.
Because I believe Jesus is calling the right people out of the homosexual lifestyle, making it safer and easier for the rest of us gay folk.
Because we live in a tolerant society and the Bible teaches tolerance and compassion.
-- This argument makes me roll over laughing every time I hear it.
1) The dental plan.
2) If you wish to pledge yourself in sacred union to Sela Ward, Ashley Judd, Angela Bassett, Winona Ryder, Penelope Cruz, Halle Berry, Rosario Dawson, &al., then God will honor and recognize it -- even if the ladies don't.
3) If anyone brings up Pascal's Wager to me, I ask them if they've read Arthur C. Clarke's "The Nine Billion Names of God".
Good things have happened to me that I did not foresee. Thousands of people are starving and dying and being bombed around the world, and here I am in a comfortable house, with a job and a car. God must exist!
"The best/feeblest reason I can recall being given (and I've heard many in my time) came after I'd been debating a Mormon who was insisting that Adam and Eve existed but that he also believed in evolution. I think I made a pretty competent stab at explaining why this was incoherent, but I was then struck down by this killer argument:
"I have just felt the holy spirit pass through me, and it has confirmed to me that I am right."
Oh, OK. That settles it then."
This is the point in a debate when, by my standards, physical violence becomes totally acceptable. For the more even-tempered, throwing rotten fruit, pissing on his shoes, or gagging yourself so you can vomit in his face might suffice; in my opinion, resorting to such shennanigans to excuse your stupidity is deserving of a good beat-down.
In terms of pure self interest, comments 141 and 236 seem to be fairly legitimate reasons to at least say you're Christian.
1. 'Cause it just ain't Christmas without Christ.
2. Because it was the first religion I encountered and I'm too lazy to read anymore books.
I must believe, for mighty Thor shall smite the nonbeliever
Was his name heddle? That goof says the same.
Vox Day said as much, too. If God told him to slaughter children, he would.
I decided to become a Christian because I'm a thug who likes to harass and threaten science teachers. I don't know anything about science, but I know for sure my ancestors didn't swing from trees. I like to yell at science teachers who have the nerve to teach evilution. Because I'm a stupid coward, I especially like to threaten 62 year old female science teachers here in the deep south. There's nothing more fun than screaming at an elderly woman for the crime of teaching science in a science class. If she don't want to find herself swinging from a rope tied to a tree, she had better start teaching the truth that god made people out of nothing 6007 years ago. This evil science teacher got herself in a big city newspaper. I guess she learned her lesson because she retired early.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504E3D81730F93BA15755C0…
I could respect that reason...if there were facts to back it up. ;-)
Let me introduce you all to Josh's Wager:
1. In human history, there exist hundreds (or perhaps thousands) of religions.
2. They all contradict each other in one way or another, and many of them promise painful punishment for those who do not believe.
3. Any rational deity would be more pissed at someone who chooses a false religion than at someone who doesn't choose one at all.
Therefore, in absence of factual evidence in favor of one religion's correctness, it is safer to be an atheist or agnostic. Anything else is like playing Russian Roulette, but with five bullets chambered instead of one.
Feel free to use this one against people who think that Pascal's Wager is a good argument. It's no less flawed (and certainly not why I'm an atheist), but the look on their face when they hear it should be memorable. :)
BobC, that story about the Georgia schoolteacher was very interesting, and had a happy ending.
Hey, did you notice who was mentioned on page two? A prominent Georgia Republican who came out strongly against removing Evolution from the state science standard a few years ago?
Yep, you guessed it! Mr. Sonny Perdue, the same guy who prayed for rain the other day! Fancy that.
I want everyone to retract whatever "fucktard" labels they've tossed at Mr. Perdue over the past several days. Hey, it's only fair. :-p
Kseniya, O.M., You're right about Perdue. I didn't notice that. It was a happy ending, but the best science teacher that school ever had retired early because of the stress from the harassment she received. Probably other science teachers all over America have the same problem with creationist parents and nobody ever hears about it. I'm guessing many teachers just give up and throw out evolution just to avoid threats from christian thugs.
If girasas could become a household word - or even in the dictionary - and scientific support teams existed to study and control encounters with the girasas, maybe I wouldn't need to be "Christian."
I don't eat meat. They do.
They don't study THE SECRET DOCTRINE. I did.
Parables had to be used to teach. Why?
As long as our government wouldn't allow injury or protest against people who cooperate with the girasas, we wouldn't need to go "underground" in our church.
They are a minority (6th subrace humans), but they are a minority that can be happily intervened upon by church settings. Do churches really operate to dispense of this higher kingdom equitably?
If one person gets too much of the higher kingdom and starts spouting off theories without appreciating the gravity and solemnity of the occasion, then perhaps the church can lessen the load of that one person by removing the excess and setting a really hard task for the girasas kingdom - using meat eaters.
Please read my webpage. I need help. Doctors don't even know the first thing about what I might need. We have to teach everyone. Where do we start?
Don't forget to appreciate:
sacrifice
sacrament
forgiveness
virgin birth
original sin
God and Man sharing one body
death on the cross
love for mystery
love for life
why evil exists?
etc.
I forgot to mention:
prayer, but better yet, bargaining
"You give us what we ask and in return we will . . . . "
It is better to ask for those things which we could all enjoy.
We could ask for water, but not everyone needs it.
We could ask for knowledge, but some would reject it.
We could ask for something for everyone, and in that way have all the bases covered. God, grant all of our wishes, and we will do whatever deeds you give us.
We ask for water, God answers by returning his plans into men's minds and hands.
We ask for knowledge, God answers by positioning teams for reception and application (again actual men receive the answer and engage themselves in the receipt.)
Everything we ask for gets returned to us as a way for us to accomplish that which we ask.
We admit we are weak and fallible, God answers that he cares and while he may have to plant the knowledge and energy for us to work out our problems, by having us do it for ourselves, we grow.
But strange limbs and bodies that aren't operable. Ugh.
Brenda, either you forgot to take your medication today or you need to increase your dosage.
Brenda wrote:
Yes they do. Please listen to them.
And please get off PZ Myer's blog. We should not be trying to deal with this, and you should not be trying to deal with us.
I say this out of love.
I was thinking of that. But I wonder if just calling him a liar would suffice. Wait for him to disprove that -- just don't hold your breath.
To be fair, though, the self-proclaimed voice of God is not a Christian. You know, "omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent -- pick two"? He has picked two -- the last two. He has taken Manicheism and made the good one of its two gods a trinity.
Look, it's very simple. Show us a girasas exists, and the scientists will line up to study it.
Ah, here we go again, an American confusing the USA with the entire world. <sigh>
Look, it's very simple. Show us that races of humans exist -- let alone subraces --, and the scientists will line up to study them.
0.75 Tc, if not 0.8.
Following story, I kid you not, absolutely true:
Last night I dreamt someone had gotten a book for christmas with beautiful illustrations. Leafing through we noticed each page fit in with the page before in that both 1) the page was a horizontal extension of the previous page so that the book was a long single panel, and 2) each image was a slight modification from the previous page so you could flip animate. Also we noticed the book had no stitching and was one sheet folded accordian style so one could pull out the pages and spread on the floor. But then we noticed it was hard to fold in and further if you folded in different combinations you could make different stories and so we cut a few strips and reassambled. After a bit we realized that we had three Christmas presents. One was the book, a second was a deck of cards of the pages of the book. And the third was one of those silly toys were you turn a handle and perpendicular slides slide back and forth thus turning oscilation motion into linear motion. We realized shuffling the cards would cause harmonic quantum waves to collapse is various ways so we could adjust the nature of reality by shuffling the cards. We could synch the harmonies of two people to coincide to make them an amalgamation of both or seperate them to get several more. It was important to keep the harmonies in tune so they would merge back to our familiar reality. That was the purpose of the rotation handle with perpendicular slides. We'd carry swing it as we walk like a purse and it would transform oscilating arc of our walk into a precisely linearly path so we'd be able to measure time perfectly in proportion to our pace. Unfortunately we didn't get this right away and we had some skips and jerks and lost the frame of reference for our original reality. So we walked along and shuffled cards and watched reality fold and unfold upon itself and watch as split into a clique of four intimate friends created on the spot and then merge to three or two and then back to three and watch as back histories and romantic entanglements appeared and shifted. Meanwhile hills would rise and flatten and become walls and then kalidascope into the floor beneath up and the become stairs of which we had no choose but to descend. The basic pattern was circular enfolding much like an image in a kaliedascope.
Then I heard a voice writing across the landscape in large white block letters: "THE UNYVERZ. I MADEZ IT! LOL!!!"
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So, perhaps the very *worst* reason to believe in God would be because one had a dream in which LOL God told you he did in a LOL Cat fashion.
The dream is *not* making me believe anything I didn't believe before but I'm kind of embarrassed my dreams have such maudlin motifs as God trying to talk to me... They are almost as bad as the dreams I have where I was the inspiration of Dennis the Menace or where I meet my high school chum Madonna on the bus...
Um, we have LOL Cats, and LOL Cthulu, and LOL Christ.... *HAS* anyone done LOL God?
Woozy,
LOL. I'll be careful to avoid standing near anything flammable before saying Krizzle-Kroo in front of you...
Well, actually, that no longer makes me angry. I was in Tahiti last summer and I discovered poison cru was fish marinated in lime and served with coconut milk over french bread. I figured if you poured it over a french pastry it'd be croisant cru and I decided krizzle-kroo was probably just an american bastardization of the dish served with a paper umbrella and a splash of louisiana hot sauce and a few live honey bees to taste. I may be wrong, but I figured I'd rather the words made mouth water rather than my eyes shoot flames. Of course, if I put a lot of hot sauce and honey bees in I can do both.
Because Jesus hates the same people I do.
Because if I sign up, I get a free toaster. (That would be Pascal's wager, updated.)
Saran Wrap!
Chicks dig it.
I am not a seitan worcestershire. I have morels.
"God made me a Christian."
-My favorite because it ignores free will.
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer.
Albert Einstein
'because the bible is the best selling book of all time'
I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.
Albert Einstein
Einstein hadn't gotten to the exasperated stage yet.
Because atheism is too difficult. A deity makes too much sense. I hate that.
If you had a theory of evolution to communicate, wouldn't you need help from people who understand some of the implications to the theory?
We need to talk about this because if we don't, then we are society that pushes hard work and honest labor under the rug - we lose what progress there is because of ignorance.
Just make the idea public. What's so difficult about that? Then people can discuss how to make proper use of the concepts. There are still people who think-speak-and-act for a living and not just some who write rhetoric and amusing stories.
I'm talking about hard work and not playful fussing.
I can't decide between the banana, peanut butter, and PYGMIES + DWARFS.
Strange. Most Catholic clergy are shaved, but that's just the Roman tradition -- not all are, and that includes several popes.
On the other hand, Orthodox monks and AFAIK priests let their hair and beard grow wild to show that they don't care about their body or the world in general anymore, while Catholic monks are shaved and used to have tonsure to show humility.
Dude, have a look at the main page. Just one short look.
I was thinking of that. But I wonder if just calling him a liar would suffice. Wait for him to disprove that -- just don't hold your breath.
To be fair, though, the self-proclaimed voice of God is not a Christian. You know, "omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent -- pick two"? He has picked two -- the last two. He has taken Manicheism and made the good one of its two gods a trinity.
Look, it's very simple. Show us a girasas exists, and the scientists will line up to study it.
Ah, here we go again, an American confusing the USA with the entire world. <sigh>
Look, it's very simple. Show us that races of humans exist -- let alone subraces --, and the scientists will line up to study them.
0.75 Tc, if not 0.8.
Well, actually, that no longer makes me angry. I was in Tahiti last summer and I discovered poison cru was fish marinated in lime and served with coconut milk over french bread. I figured if you poured it over a french pastry it'd be croisant cru and I decided krizzle-kroo was probably just an american bastardization of the dish served with a paper umbrella and a splash of louisiana hot sauce and a few live honey bees to taste. I may be wrong, but I figured I'd rather the words made mouth water rather than my eyes shoot flames. Of course, if I put a lot of hot sauce and honey bees in I can do both.
because most people are christians, and the majority is always correct.
The feeblest reason to be a christian?
Because the boyfriend you started secretly banging at age 13 is a christian and even though you're pregnant, he won't marry you unless you convert to christianity.