The things you learn about us godless evilutionists…

Man, I thought you were cool.

What would you say, though, if I could offer you the lead role in a direct-to-DVD series called "Two-and-a-half Horses Gone WIld!"?

Wait, wait... I forgot, writer's strike.

darnitall anyway.

I note you don't actually specify what species that is; nice dodge.

Anyway, don't these guys know that Charlie Sheen is a born again Christian, albeit a drunk and horny one?

In fact, I did wonder about maybe trying to get him on board to counter the Bueller powered evil that is Ben Stein (anyone who knows the movie knows that it's really Charlie who saves the day).

So, do any female science grads with a high tolerance for alcohol, theistic evolutionary tendencies (and a hot body) want to have go recruiting him?

I read as far as "Slimy sal Cordova thinks" and stopped to wonder: Aren't you being a little too generous?

I fail to see the use of a Golden Compass since gold is not a ferromagnet.

Wait, wait... being buggered by horses isn't compulsory? Now you tell me!?

(Editor's note: No horses or evilusionists were harmed in the making of this comment.)

BTW, in Germany "Two and a Half Men" has the much better title "Mein Cooler Uncle Charlie".

Why it would be thought to be an atheist sitcom in any way is odd since the guys regularly mention God, in the capital G form, and seem to accept the idea of God absolutely, without reservations, in the usual American way. The worst part of the show is the really too loud and awful laugh track; the best part, by far, is the spot-on kid and the guys' mom (Holland Taylor).

The point of Joe Blundo's article is not quite clear to me, but I think your post regarbles it into a different unclear point.

For example, he says, "Somebody is buying all those Girls Gone Wild DVDs, and I'll bet most of them aren't atheists." To be fair, it doesn't sound like he thinks the Girls Gone Wild videos are "atheist recruiting tools." Again, I don't know what his point is, but it's not that.

Oh, crap! That's it. NOW I gotta read the books. Are they any good?

By the way...

[...]rites of my ideology.

Is don't agree on the ideology thing. I realize this has been beaten to death, but don't we wanna let people know that "atheism" is just a reactionary position, instead of an ideology? If "theism" wasn't fucking with us so much, we wouldn't even have the term in the dictionary.

Chase,

I thought something similar too, but the dumbass is just trying to be funny. It seems to me after re-reading that he is implying that all those things mentioned are conspicuous ways of Hollywood to "convert" people to atheism. Thus, the evil masterminds in Hollywood arecunningly luring non-atheists with topless girls kissing (that's what those videos are, right?).

How is it logical to "copulate with other animals" just because we're animals? You just don't normally see interspecies copulation. I'm not familiar with this person, but do they even know a damn thing about biology?
It's obvious they don't know a damn thing about atheism.

Actually, the truly anti-religious video game is Halo. Not because of the violence and what-not, but the themes. You're fighting an alien religious hierarchy whose leaders have convinced everyone else that the humans must be destroyed because it is the Will of the Gods. Come on, no one?

I'll take you all on!

I had trouble trying to pick out any sort of meaning from Blundo's article, as well, but I think I've got the basic gist:
"Hey guys, don't worry, Hollywood could never really make an atheist movie because people like me would flip their sh*t. Since this movie isn't really so bad, I think I'll just bring up some icky things, like murder, misogyny, and Charlie Sheen and associate them with atheism to make sure you don't get any ideas."

You just don't normally see interspecies copulation.

Ah, but you forget the camelopard, or as people insist on calling it, the giraffe. Clearly the result of the mating of a camel and a leopard. Just ask Pliny the Elder.

Dr Peter Singer did receive quite some criticism for this article :

http://www.nerve.com/Opinions/Singer/heavyPetting/main.asp

"That may be because Galdikas understands very well that we are animals, indeed more specifically, we are great apes. This does not make sex across the species barrier normal, or natural, whatever those much-misused words may mean, but it does imply that it ceases to be an offence to our status and dignity as human beings."

Now, I don't see the link with "Darwinism" but I can see how this gets spinned by people like Cordova who like to quote out of context. Which is, as we know, the favourite technique of creationists.

I don't think that article is saying what you think its saying PZ. The confusion is certainly understandable given its incoherency, but it doesn't seem to be a criticism of atheism exactly. I think what he is really doing is engaging in a more typical criticism of Hollywood by saying something like: "hey, for sure the entertainment industry is morally depraved and wants us to share in its moral depravity. But they wouldn't do so by trying to make us all atheists because they can succeed well enough by making us all participate in unfiltered violence and misogyny."

Granted, its hard to understand exactly what his point is here, the article is so badly written. But what I got out of it is that his feelings toward atheism are more of disregard. He incorrectly associates it with nihilism, but a relatively mild form of such, whereas what Hollywood more typically provides is a more robust nihilism. They have no need to engage in the milder form. Not that he is being any more reasonable but he is not being unreasonable in the way you think he is.

You just don't normally see interspecies copulation.

First, I have personally witnessed hot goose on duck action (rape?). As a repeated behavior.

Second, mules.

Okay, so those aren't normal, but they happen.

It seems to me that Blundo's point is that Hollywood is making big bucks in all kinds of media, and they won't risk audience share by truly going atheist.

Dude... once you've gone squid...

erm..

...You'll be glad you did.

(best I could do...)

re: 5
I don't think it would make sense for the casing of a compass to be ferromagnetic. Do you?

re: 17
Almost all of the pictures produced by Hollywood are either religiously neutral or endorse alternate realities. What bothers people in "Middle America" is that Hollywood does not bother to produce films that are openly pro-Bible. Reason? Films like that also don't make a heck of a lot of money.

You say Hollywood "won't risk audience share by truly going atheist". What was the last film that was produced by Hollywood that was pro-Christian? I'm not counting The Passion by Mel Gibson, since he went outside the Hollywood system, and I'm not counting "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" which, though allegorical, embraces fabulous creatures to such a great extent its connection to Christianity is diluted.

To be fair, it doesn't sound like he thinks the Girls Gone Wild videos are "atheist recruiting tools."

Well, they sure hooked me.

I had no idea these were the rites of my ideology.

What did you expect him to do, cite evidence for his beliefs?

As a Columbusite, we have been subjected to Joe Blundo for quite a while. Most of his articles are harmless fluff, and some of them are actually quite funny.

I think, PZ, that you are misreading the point of the article. What Blundo is doing, I think, is mocking the fundamentalist viewpoint that anything not specifically relating to the big G-man is an athiest tool. Quotes like:

Somebody is buying all those Girls Gone Wild DVDs, and I'll bet most of them AREN'T atheists (emphasis mine).

and

Don't expect much of that in the movie versions to come. As The Atlantic article makes clear, the producers of The Golden Compass aren't about to risk their profits by riling up the faithful for no good reason. When you're successfully separating people from their money every day, separating them from God is just overkill.

tell me that he's poking at the fundamentalist buttons, not trying to describe what makes a good atheist

Of course, it could just be that we in Columbus don't get much publicity in non-election years that I'm just trying to defend him.

Okay...back to lurking for me.

The most polite thing I can say is that these people are pathetic.

What's more they're all devil-worshippers -- the they didn't beieve in the devil they wouldn't need a god to save them from him. Good line to get them really really upset. Even better than "Tell me, Father, what is the real difference between Christianity and Communism?".

I'm not a huge follower of Hollywood flicks, but I can recall "Michael" and "The Exorcist" and any of a gazillion other angel or devil movies. Movies featuring mystical and messianic characters abound. I would class any of them as theistic, and specifically including Narnia stuff. Lord of the Rings, Matrix, The Ten Commandments, Bruce Almighty, Evan Almighty, Oh God, Devil's Advocate, etc etc.

And what (non-indie) movies are there that promote atheist worldviews?

I think this is the first time that Joe Blundo has ever been taken seriously. I've had the misfortune of occasionally reading articles of his when I lived in Columbus. That one is a pretty good example of his horrible writing and superfluous non-logic to reach a conclusion that doesn't make sense and wouldn't mean anything even if it did.

He's not an editorial writer for the Dispatch. He's basically the pop-culture beat writer for the Life section, you know, the one with crossword puzzles and stupid comic strips.

Hey, I'm an atheist, and I've played Grand theft Auto.

Wow. It's all so clear now. And here was me thinking my atheism was a position taken after lenghty mullings over my place in the universe, the lack of evidence supporting supernatural deities and the recognition of wishful thinking by most humans who are simply scared of dying.

And it's actually all due to GTA opening mine eyes. Praise be!

Darn, who knew Grand Theft Auto was the path to enlightenment. Shame I don't own that game or games.

Did you check out the update PZ? Not only is Sal Cordova a brilliant sociologist and theologian, he's the most brilliant mathematician who has EVER LIVED. It turns out that the Fourier Transform is connected to both basic physics AND engineering. Somehow that connects it to creation science. I'm not sure how... if only Sal Cordova the Infinitely Wise would show us.

Full Disclosure: I am an electrical engineer. I thoroughly enjoy the fourier transform for its beauty and simplicity, and have been fully aware of its quantum mechanical connections for several years. I'm also a little peeved that creationists are hijacking the term "engineered" for their own devices.

I'm also a Columbus resident, and I usually don't bother with Blundo -- as others have pointed out he's mostly a fluff hack. But this really pissed me off. I read his column a couple of times, trying to decide if I was too sensitive, and as others have pointed out, his point seems to be that it's not just atheists who indulge in violent or pornographic entertainment. And, yes, he's a particularly incoherent writer. However, in the process he does conflate advancing atheism with advancing mindless video game violence, and movie torture and pornography, and he does it in an off-handed way as if what he's saying is self-evident to all and indisputable. It's the old nihilism => atheism formulation.

Why are US newspapers, especially regional ones, so bad? I've read worse than the Columbus Dispatch (The Cincinnati Enquirer is probably the worst Ohio rag I've ever read) but why do they insist in publishing incoherent trash?
___________________________

Mine eyes have seen the glory--Girls Gone Wild, Miami Beach!
And the atheistic principles a film like that can teach;
If a god existed, girls like that would all be out of reach--
The truth is marching on....

Glory, glory Grand Theft Auto!
Girls, half-naked and half-blotto!
Sing the atheistic motto
"The truth is marching on"

I've been well-indoctrinated in the atheistic way
I would sell my soul eternal for a quick roll in the hay
And of course, my lustful partner won't say "no", but only "neigh"
The truth is marching on!

chorus

I watched The Golden Compass and I thought "it needs more blood"
'Cos the Bible is more violent, with slaughter, war, and flood--
I don't want no Heaven when I die--just put me out to stud!
The truth is marching on!

chorus

With the trampling of vineyards and the smiting with a sword
Seems it's God who loves a slasher film, while atheists are bored
If you use your brain, and use your eyes, the truth is your reward
The truth is marching on!

I've never had sex with any animal unless they're members of my species.

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

I don't see the point of debating these untrustworthy people (Sal and friends) at all, they run around the internets, find a place where people are doing something they think their god doesn't like then retroactively decide darwinism/evolutionism/atheism as the cause and inspiration for said behavior.

It's about as dishonest and childish as one can get. It's not really our task to explain how their silly classifications of atheists, evolutionists and darwinists are leading them to equally silly conclusions. As they say, garbage in, garbage out.

I'm not an atheist, because i don't define myself by what i'm not, and because it's silly to define yourself from the framework of a religion.

I'm not an evolutionist because i'm not a gravityist.

I'm not a Darwinist, because while Darwin was a very smart person, just his authority alone means nothing to me or to science.

Yet, I don't have any problems with the current scientific explanations for the world around us, I don't believe in any gods like I don't believe in any ghosts and I certainly don't think that magic trumps reason.

I'd like a new box to be classified in please.

You just don't normally see interspecies copulation.

Actually, you do in frogs. We can even give an evolutionary explanation:

Schmeller, D.S., O'Hara, R.B., Kokko, H., 2005. Male Adaptive Stupidity: Male Mating pattern in hypridogenetic waterfrogs. Evolutionary Ecology Research 7: 1039-1050.

Bob

Nice come back Cuttlefish. Just remember, Neigh means no!
-Michael

Oh, and I've never had sex with any animal unless they're members of my species.

But...but...what about all that cephalopod porn you post? I'm very disillusioned to find out you're just a poseur.

BTW, I'll add myself to the list of people who think PZ misread the Joe Blundo column. He's poking fun at the people who are upset about atheist subtexts in The Golden Compass, while seemingly unconcerned about other cultural messages which promote violence, sexism, etc.

For all the sarcasm that gets used in the blogosphere, you'd think it would be easily recognized when it appears in print.

Hey, Christians are in glass houses when it comes to inter-species erotic. They worship the offspring of a human and a non-human, we don't think any such thing could happen.

On a separate note, I do occasionally watch two and a half men and play GTA. I also like some slasher movies, but not that really bad and inaccurate one Mel Gibson made some years ago.

I can also safely say that I don't take part in the Christian recruiting methods, like door to door annoyance, lying to children, rape, conquest, colonialism, back handed charities, slavery, or Fox News.

Umm.. ow...

If getting buggered by a horse is a pre-requisite to Atheism then I'm gonna go back to Wicca.

Where the hell did this nonsense originate? This guy having kinky sex fantasies he can't get out of his head or something?

There seems to be no limited to the absurd stereotypes people use these days.

Um, folks, Joe Blundo writes satirical humor. Well, actually, sometimes he writes satirical humor--other times he writes more serious fluff pieces (if you know what I mean).

I thought the satire in this piece was obvious.

By the way, I've met him a few times. Trust me, he is not what most of you are thinking.

Young Cosmos is a website dedicated exploring the possibility that all universe and life have come into existence very recently by an act of Intelligent Design.

Good luck with that.

Spend days, weeks, years on an idea that is summarily dismissed in five minutes by even marginally intelligent people after a little Googling.

Hey, Sal, your stupid is showing.

Enjoy your irrelevance, Dickhead.

I second one of the other comments I read. It was hard reading the article, but I don't think it was an anti atheist rant. he even stated that he was sure most GGW vids are bought by believers. Whatever point he is trying to make, he misses badly. I am sure there are plenty of people who think the same way.

However, using GGW as an atheist recruiting tool, might not be such a bad thing......

Oh come ON!

Being buggered by a horse is not in any way morally equivalent to playing Grand Theft Auto. What asinine bullshit these loons spout.

After all, being buggereed by a horse is much more fun.**

Erm, forget I said anything.

Louis (credibility in tatters*)

* This will not be the only thing in tatters if one has been buggered by a horse.

** WARNING TO QUOTE MINERS, FUNDIES, AND MORONS (but I repeat myself): This post may contain humour. It is possible the sentiments contained within are not a) true or b) serious.

P.S. GTA is very good fun, but don't let's mistake it for real life shall we? After all the body count is far higher in real life and if you amount a fortune in real life like the one I have on GTA: San Andreas, murder is more likely to be thought of as a meddlesome excentricity than a criminal act.

Talking Jesus Action Figure Sells Out At Walmart.

I guess I won't be able to shove Talking Jesus up my butt this Christmas.

Darn!

Oh yeah, and Two and a Half Men? What a piece of crap. If American sitcoms are atheist propaganda, I vote for Frasier. It's hilarious and infiltrated with references to that evil Freudian Psychiatry stuff which we all know is super atheist and everything.

Louis

Grand Theft Auto rocks. I have no interest in slasher movies or that sitcom and GGW doesn't appeal to me much either.

It's all just evidence that these things are a matter of taste and have no connection to atheism at all.

Grand Theft Auto taught me everything I needed to know about driving in Tennessee. It fits well with the "Jesus take the wheel while I grab another beer" style of driving employed by the locals.

BTW, there was a critically praised documentary film that came out earlier this year, Zoo, about the horse incident.

Actually, Two and a Half Men was wicked funny in its first couple of seasons. Lately, it's gone downhill a bit, but it's still fairly entertaining. As a bonus, one of the brothers (played by John Crier) is a chiropractor in the show, and the butt of many jokes because of it...

If American sitcoms are atheist propaganda, I vote for Frasier.

I don't know... I think Frasier sucked. I did enjoy a little Cheers, though.

If there's any a-anything sitcom, it has to be The One About Nothing. Seinfeld.

"Talking Jesus Action Figure Sells Out At Walmart."

Corporate Jesus Still Sucks!

Gimme that old-time religion:

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/284323

I was raised in the SDA church, and this thread reminds me of a comment that Ellen White, the co-founder, made. She stated that one of the main reasons for the flood was because man and apes were getting it on, and that that's where some of the African tribes come from. I can give you the actual quote, etc if you want, but probably not necessary. Gotta love these folk. Brilliant minds...

Anybody catch this gem about us evilutionists:

Apparently, we're to blame when scorned missionary teens go on shooting rampages.....

And as in all things uncommondescent.....
Logic=0
Causality=0

http://www.uncommondescent.com/philosophy/2889/

I suppose it's worth noting that evolution is what explains the usual lack of sexual interest in other species (yes, we know the stories of dogs and humans, and billy goats will fuck anything. Doesn't change the overall mating interests and patterns). Indeed, sexual preferences, rituals, and mating calls are what appear to cause some of the speciation that we are supposed not to be able to explain.

ID explains nothing about it (or anything else) at all, of course, and Slimy has to resort once again to cherry-picking his Bible to condemn "thee" and not "me" (um, what's the NT stance on lying, Sal?).

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7

And as in all things uncommondescent.....
Logic=0
Causality=0

Oh, and no evidence of Dennett or Dawkins influencing him in any way. But you know, it's listed as philosophy, so it's very profound.

In reading it I get the sense that Matthew Murray is the sort of example of religion poisoning people that Dennett and Dawkins might like to use. Now I'm not saying that it would be fair to do so, particularly because one-off events don't make for a trend (not by themselves). But whatever problems he had with his mind, I dare say that the Designer didn't do well with him the first time around, and church certainly didn't fix the Designer's mistakes.

Uh, yeah, IDists, tell us more about the divinity of the non-material mind. I'd like to hear what miracles are responsible for Murray's rampage.

And let me just say that I'm glad that the security guard who shot him didn't "rely on the Lord" or anything useless like that, but used cold hard technology and "materialistic physics" to supply the kinetic energy to the lead that really does stop madmen.

But then, shouldn't UD, Dembski, and Ol' Slimy be condemning the believer in materialism who stopped him? Wasn't magic supposed to leap ahead of the materialistic science which has caused such a stagnation in research?

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7

"Talking Jesus Action Figure Sells Out At Walmart.

I guess I won't be able to shove Talking Jesus up my butt this Christmas.

Darn!"
He didn't sell out, he bought in.

In the Bibble, didn't that God critter have it away with Mary? Theological interspecies sex with not an atheist in sight. Perhaps Jebus didn't have kids of his own after all, as he was a sterile hybrid.

Well, you could "play with your food" a little before eating a squid dinner.  I mean, isn't that mantle well-shaped for a little "action"?  A professor's gotta live a little, I always say.

So why is it that these Christian types are always banging on so about sex? What's the big deal? Well my wife has this theory that if you look under the surface they're all even crazier for sex (not to mention a "bit on the side" and even kinky sex) than the rest of us, and thus they have a guilty conscience which they have to try to assuage. It's what some therapists call "slot-rattling". Dunno if that's true but it could be: after all look at the number of kids most of them they have! ;-) Anyone done any stats on children per head of Christians compared to atheists?

As an amusement ... In the days before I totally renounced all religion we were married by an unfrocked priest. Well he wasn't yet unfrocked at the time, just a few years later. Why? Because he was "over the side" with one of his lady parishioners to the neglect of his family! Regardless that his wife was almost certainly indulging in some extra-curricula activity too. :-)

"So why is it that these Christian types are always banging on so about sex? What's the big deal? Well my wife has this theory that if you look under the surface they're all even crazier for sex (not to mention a "bit on the side" and even kinky sex) than the rest of us"

If that's true, then I gotta get me a nice Christian girl.

I just went through Blundo's bit, and I'm not getting any kind of bad atheist bent out of the piece. He seems to be taking a quick shot at the fundamentalist fear-mongering that there might be a hidden agenda in the movie, his conclusion seems to be that the only agenda in the movie is to make a buck. Which seems to be his general statement about all the things he listed (rap music, violent video games, etc...).

As for Cordova - I'm wondering if he runs that new cellphone commercial with the pony through his Jesus to Jedidiah decoder ring if he is going to come up with it being an endorsement for pony-buggering (and therefore cellphone are yet another tool of the Satanic Evilutionists). Possibly because of the girl's statement, "it bites," it might be a condemnation and all the fundamentalists need to move their services over to the god-loving company that produced the commercial. Who ever knows with those tricky little decoder rings you get out of a box a bi-ble-jax.

"I guess I'm a very, very bad atheist."

Nah. You're a very bad republican.

"I'd like a new box to be classified in please."

How about rationalist?

Blundo says:
"I haven't read the two subsequent volumes, The Subtle Knife and The Amber Spyglass, but they're supposed to be more stridently anti-religious. (God dies, if that tells you anything.)"

So he has an opinion about these books ... very revealing.

I just went through Blundo's bit, and I'm not getting any kind of bad atheist bent out of the piece. He seems to be taking a quick shot at the fundamentalist fear-mongering that there might be a hidden agenda in the movie, his conclusion seems to be that the only agenda in the movie is to make a buck. Which seems to be his general statement about all the things he listed (rap music, violent video games, etc...)

Yes, looks like he is trying to make this point in good faith, but he still stumbles when he equates atheism with nihilism. Unless he is using some sort of sophisticated double irony.

Why are US newspapers, especially regional ones, so bad?

Because you don't have a single countrywide bad newspaper that has a market share around 50 %, like Austria or Germany. That's why.

On another note, it is time to repeat myself: Cuttlefish wins teh intartoobz. Again.

I'm surprised no one picked up on it yet, but slasher movies are pretty dogmatic in their morals (with exceptions). The fornicators die.

@67: As do the drunkards, and those who leave the flock

Sal seems worried about people having sex with horses.
Hey Sal, projecting much? Bet he's looking for some bareback action. bwa-ha-ha

Cheers,
Ray

Re Joe Blundo, I think you are giving him a bad rap. I used to live next door to him. This is what passes for sarcasm in Ohio.

Why are US newspapers, especially regional ones, so bad?

Because you don't have a single countrywide bad newspaper that has a market share around 50 %, like Austria or Germany. That's why.

On another note, it is time to repeat myself: Cuttlefish wins teh intartoobz. Again.